| 00:00:42 | kugel | ahhh |
| 00:00:45 | kugel | too long! |
| 00:00:58 | kugel | ah the abstract only |
| 00:01:35 | gevaerts | kugel: if I understand the documentation correctly, it shouldn't be public. I'm not entirely sure though |
| 00:02:42 | kwbr | gevaerts: works great. thanks |
| 00:03:03 | kwbr | gevaerts: will add the tool to my music sync-script |
| 00:03:26 | gevaerts | kwbr: you can also do it using sg3-utils and hand-assembling the SCSI packet :) |
| 00:03:38 | saratoga | amiconn: how do you figure? |
| 00:03:41 | | Quit RadicalR (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:03:42 | * | S_a_i_n_t was fairly certain thata restore with itunes synced the time on an iPod. |
| 00:04:01 | gevaerts | S_a_i_n_t: most people try to avoid restoring too often |
| 00:04:12 | S_a_i_n_t | Well, I've only ever set the timezone on mine, and the time is always right. |
| 00:04:28 | gevaerts | S_a_i_n_t: itunes syncs the clock every time |
| 00:04:32 | amiconn | saratoga: ldm reduces code size -> better caching, and if the code memory is uncached, same thing - fetching fewer instructions |
| 00:04:36 | S_a_i_n_t | As do I, but what would cause it to reset the time? |
| 00:04:55 | saratoga | amiconn: but a loop will be entirely cached regardless, its only 1-2 cachelines long |
| 00:05:00 | gevaerts | S_a_i_n_t: what? |
| 00:05:21 | amiconn | Sure, but there's not *only* that loop, there's other code around it |
| 00:05:26 | * | kugel shorts the abstract a bit, the full version is still in the proposal |
| 00:05:34 | kwbr | gevaerts: Ha! I'll check to code... |
| 00:05:39 | amiconn | (well, unless you're timing just that loop of course... |
| 00:05:53 | saratoga | yeah we're just timing that loop, its a memory benchmark after all |
| 00:05:58 | gevaerts | kwbr: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodItunesCommunication#Setting_the_clock has the full details. ipod-time-sync was based on that |
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| 00:06:00 | S_a_i_n_t | Errr, bad wording. I mean, why would the time be incorrect in the first place? |
| 00:06:11 | S_a_i_n_t | If the battery ran completely dead...? |
| 00:06:32 | gevaerts | ever heard of clock drift? |
| 00:06:53 | S_a_i_n_t | No. |
| 00:06:58 | * | S_a_i_n_t googles. |
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| 00:11:48 | kugel | submitted! |
| 00:12:52 | amiconn | saratoga: There's also the possibility that the cache isn't completely single cycle, or not properly initialized somehow |
| 00:13:37 | * | amiconn would in fact be very surprised if the PPs would be the only SoCs with bugs like this |
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| 00:13:50 | saratoga | performance is really good so I think cache is working |
| 00:14:10 | saratoga | though it could be some bug specific to this loop, but i think me making a mistake is more likely :) |
| 00:14:45 | saratoga | probably cache bugs are less likely on ARM9 and higher since the cache is designed by arm and theres onboard hardware for things like TCM |
| 00:14:49 | saratoga | so less to screw up |
| 00:15:10 | kugel | tcm is only on arm9e |
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| 00:32:54 | stripwax_ | saratoga - mm, my tremor timings seem unchanged so it seems an accurate measurement −− i.e. old rockbox mdct_arm.S negligable benefit on whatever the nslu2 is, versus about 9% faster with FasterMdct |
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| 00:36:43 | saratoga | stripwax_: well a lot of the improvement was probably just the ldm/stm stuff, so maybe thats reasonable |
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| 00:37:04 | saratoga | i don't know if we ever benched it on ARM9, back in those days we only had the GBF |
| 00:37:04 | stripwax_ | maybe |
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| 01:25:16 | * | flyback taking a nap, bbl |
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| 03:20:00 | Blue_Dude | Hah! Try this out for size... Modified bookmark.c to write optional tokens to bookmarks and at the same time remain backward compatible with existing bookmarks and bookmarks with other optional tokens. Plus it adds pitch and timestretch tokens by default. |
| 03:21:50 | Strife89 | Make a patch for Flyspray. :) |
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| 03:33:53 | Blue_Dude | And it's at FS #11178. Enjoy! |
| 03:34:40 | * | flyback wishes there was test code for c140/c150 |
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| 05:53:27 | CGL | Hi everyone |
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| 08:39:24 | Luca_S | FuzeV2, latest SVN. I'm experiencing random screen corruptions - boot loader showed corrupted colors in the RB logo (only once), WPS seems to "move to the left" part of the screen (as if it was missing some pixels) |
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| 08:40:10 | Luca_S | now I had the same corrupted colors problem in the WPS too |
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| 08:59:26 | S_a_i_n_t | Blargh! FS #11101 stops sim-builds from compiling....I *really* like the behaviour the patch offers (though, the menu/wording for it is *awful*), but it's just not done as well as it could be by someone who actually knows what they're doing. ie. Not me. |
| 08:59:36 | S_a_i_n_t | Good idea, bad implementation. |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:00:55 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: Is there a comment on the task about that problem? |
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| 09:03:50 | S_a_i_n_t | There are several about the crappy wording, But I'm just going to add a comment to it now alog the lines of "should use 'charging only mode' and 'mass storage device mode" (or similar) instead of a rather sonfusing 'yess/no' selection, and btw this patch also makes the bootloader complain and messes up sim-builds" |
| 09:04:05 | S_a_i_n_t | It's a nice idea, just not very well done. |
| 09:04:37 | S_a_i_n_t | sonfusing? "Ahem....*con*fusing" |
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| 10:27:45 | mitk | It looks like fuze v1 was broken by r25491. It frozes during startup. Anyone tried fuze v1 with build higher than 25490? |
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| 10:34:09 | kugel | mitk: I'm not sure how but I'll have a look |
| 10:35:47 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 10:37:07 | mitk | kugel: my fuze lasts with yellow rockbox logo, sbs status bar loaded and wheel led on. Clean config and default theme. 25490 is working |
| 10:40:03 | | Quit m3dlg (Quit: RAGE QUIT) |
| 10:41:47 | kugel | re: RaaA. I've looked into gnu pth a bit (a cooperative thread library) and it looks pretty straight forward to replace our own implementation with it |
| 10:45:27 | kugel | linux and android only offer pthread, android also java threads, neither is guaranteed to be cooperative, so we're basically forced to a) port over our threads or b) use a third party library which offers cooperative threads explicitely |
| 10:47:49 | linuxstb | Or c) fix the apps/ code to work with pre-emptive threading |
| 10:48:25 | gevaerts | fix *all* code |
| 10:48:43 | gevaerts | It's not just apps |
| 10:48:49 | linuxstb | How much firmware/ code will be left in a true RaaA? |
| 10:49:12 | linuxstb | Or how much firmware code where threading is an issue? |
| 10:50:11 | gevaerts | I don't think it's a good idea to switch threading models *only* for RaaA |
| 10:52:18 | gevaerts | and I'd assume that *all* code has issues. Everything that uses global state needs locking, which in rockbox basically means that everything needs locking |
| 10:52:49 | linuxstb | I'm not saying it's the best solution, but should we definitely rule it out? |
| 10:53:11 | gevaerts | I think within the scope of a RaaA project, yes |
| 10:53:13 | linuxstb | Isn't it only things which can be changed by multiple threads? |
| 10:53:33 | | Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 10:53:51 | gevaerts | isn't that basically everything? |
| 10:54:41 | * | gevaerts points JdGordon to FS #11175 to see if he has ideas |
| 10:54:50 | * | JdGordon just oened that email |
| 10:55:03 | pamaury | changing the threading model would be an extremely tedious task |
| 10:55:20 | Bagder | I'm not sure it would be _that_ tedious |
| 10:55:27 | linuxstb | I don't know. But that's my point - is it _definitely_ a huge undertaking? |
| 10:55:37 | Bagder | we already have locking on several places due to system calls' own yieldings |
| 10:56:07 | JdGordon | gevaerts: the theme causes the wrong track to start?! thats bloody retarted |
| 10:56:46 | kugel | the problem is that debugging thread problems is hard, even more with preemptive threads. I do think it would be a very tedious task |
| 10:56:50 | gevaerts | JdGordon: yes, I know, but it's even worse. It causes the wrong track to start, but with the correct resume info so if you restart playback it changes... |
| 10:57:37 | pamaury | B4gder: don't underestimate it, debugging threading is extremely tedious, even when you right the code with preemptive model in mind |
| 10:57:42 | JdGordon | I probably wont get a chance to look at it tonight, but we'll see... |
| 10:58:00 | Bagder | to me, it's about where Rockbox is heading, where the future lies |
| 10:58:06 | linuxstb | SoC isn't meant to be fun, it's a job... ;) |
| 10:58:11 | Bagder | haha |
| 10:58:24 | kugel | I don't want to rule it out completely, but I think it might be a bit too much work for a single gsoc summer. |
| 10:58:52 | pamaury | why preemptive threading would be the future ? |
| 10:58:55 | Bagder | yes, it's a huge undertaking to consider it for gsoc |
| 10:58:57 | kugel | but if it's required I shall give it a try, I guess? |
| 10:59:17 | linuxstb | This is also why I've been saying that the SoC project shouldn't be focused on a target device - it should be laying the foundations. |
| 10:59:20 | Bagder | pamaury: because I see raaa as the future and thus getting out of the way for such "basic" things such as threading models |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:28 | | Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) |
| 11:00:45 | gevaerts | Preemptive threading might of course also make multi-cpu support *slightly* easier |
| 11:00:51 | linuxstb | Bagder: I don't agree RaaA is _the_ future. Rockbox as a firmware will still be relevant for a long time, as long as manufacturers keep making dedicated DAPs. But I agree it's _part_ of the future. |
| 11:01:31 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 11:01:41 | kugel | linuxstb: do you think I should focus on making preemptive threads work over porting to a device? |
| 11:01:49 | Bagder | yes, I'm not suggesting we'd drop anything of what we do now, but I do see a future where users such as myself will not be using dedicated DAPs anymore |
| 11:02:23 | pamaury | Don't get it wrong, raaa is fundamentally different, first of all, nearly all the code in firmware/ becomes useless and you can thus rely on the OS features, which are thread-safe. Then, the relevant code in apps/ can probably be 'fixed' for preemptive threading |
| 11:02:37 | kugel | Rockbox works very well with cooperative threads, so I don't see a need to make preeptive threads work. they have also drawbacks |
| 11:03:09 | Bagder | kugel: but so does cooperative... :-) |
| 11:03:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:03:20 | JdGordon | "change is bad"..... :< silly argument |
| 11:03:36 | Zagor | the proper argument is, rather, "multithreading is hard" |
| 11:03:47 | linuxstb | kugel: I'm just trying to keep an open mind. i.e. there are lots of things to discuss and consider. I just added "use pre-emptive threading" as a third option to your list... |
| 11:03:55 | Zagor | but it certainly looks like we need to bite this bullet |
| 11:04:10 | | Quit bluebroth3r (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 11:04:21 | Bagder | multithreading _is_ hard |
| 11:04:37 | JdGordon | if we are talking RAAAaaaa wouldnt it be better to talk about splitting apps into logical modules and make them not talk to eachother how they do now? |
| 11:04:55 | JdGordon | pull the playback engine out into a seperate library, ditto drawing, etc |
| 11:05:05 | Bagder | that'd make sense, yes |
| 11:05:30 | Bagder | a bit like librbtag has been started |
| 11:05:31 | kugel | I'd consider the project more successful if we have an installable app at the end (for a platform we didn't target before), not so much if we work with preemptive threads |
| 11:06:02 | gevaerts | kugel: you could get an installable app in a week... |
| 11:06:54 | kugel | with sdl and without fixing it to work with the target tree, yes |
| 11:07:04 | Bagder | for the project, the foundation is more important than a single gsoc project though |
| 11:07:18 | Bagder | imo |
| 11:07:25 | gevaerts | of course, but those are also just foundation things, just like threading :) |
| 11:07:54 | JdGordon | also, for Raaaa, going for a real target for gsoc is stupid.... linux+sdl is the obvious porper first step, then maybe replace sdl with qt or something |
| 11:09:21 | kugel | well, I followed the project idea on SummerOfCode2010 which mentions porting to an actual device and no threading. but if we now decide that being independant on the underlying thread library is more important I can change my proposal to reflect this |
| 11:09:28 | * | linuxstb wants linux+ncurses, keeping charcell alive ;) |
| 11:10:20 | * | gevaerts wants to separate the GUI from the rest better, so keeping charcell alive becomes a non-issue :) |
| 11:10:27 | pamaury | gevaerts: I just found a library for usb analyzing, it didn't use it yet but it seems interesting: http://vusb-analyzer.sourceforge.net/ |
| 11:11:03 | kugel | so what has the higher priority? |
| 11:11:07 | linuxstb | gevaerts: I agree. The apps/ code definitely needs changing in the long-term, but it's definitely something to do after the lower-level stuff. |
| 11:11:26 | gevaerts | kugel: find a healthy mix :) |
| 11:13:27 | linuxstb | I think it will depend a lot on the choices made, and the problems that are found along the way. So any timeline needs to be flexible. As a minimum, a "desktop" linux+sdl target could be a successful outcome, assuming the right amount of work has been done to get there. |
| 11:19:38 | | Join TheSeven [0] (~theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 11:21:05 | n1s | re: raaa, but not exactly what you guys are discussing, i've been out of the loop for a while and just read Bagder's blog post about it yesterday, and while i agree that raaa is *a* future of rockbox i wondered a bit about the part about relying on the device's OF/OS for stuff like networking. How do we feel about more advanced players like the zune for example, which has wifi, are we against rockbox gaining its own network stack? if so do we port linux |
| 11:21:06 | n1s | f.e. and run raaa on top? |
| 11:22:15 | Zagor | my personal feeling is that linux is proably the way to go for more complex code such as networking |
| 11:22:22 | Bagder | I agree |
| 11:22:22 | n1s | btw, i am not saying replacing the firmware entirely is feasible on phones and the like but on the more featured daps and pmps which lack an open os |
| 11:23:06 | n1s | interesting |
| 11:25:10 | kugel | ok, I'll add "explore possiblities to run under preemptive multithreading", I propose I have a try but if it turns out too hard I move the focus onto later items on the list. I think it's not really possible to give an estimate on the work needed for preemptive threads |
| 11:25:17 | kugel | ok? |
| 11:26:16 | n1s | kugel: i see no reason why you have to deal with all the problems raa brings up at once, i's suggest focusing on a few and getting them right |
| 11:26:24 | n1s | s/i's/i'd/ |
| 11:26:39 | kugel | I fear that if I concentrate on the thread issue too much then, no matter of the outcome, porting will fail |
| 11:26:46 | gevaerts | kugel: I'd mainly add a note that lots of details and steps could change after discussion |
| 11:27:29 | * | n1s is curious to see how the raaa gui will turn out |
| 11:27:52 | kugel | not much different from the current one |
| 11:28:14 | kugel | which is why a desktop is actually a suboptimal target |
| 11:28:30 | n1s | i'd like to run raa on a desktop/laptop |
| 11:29:00 | n1s | s/to run/to be able to run comfortably/ |
| 11:29:21 | n1s | of course nothing prevents different UI's to be available |
| 11:30:11 | kugel | sure, but a complete ui overhaul is too much for gsoc imo |
| 11:31:08 | kugel | maybe if it was *only* the ui overhaul but there are a lot of prerequisites for that |
| 11:33:39 | n1s | yeah, i'm not saying you or anyone else should do it |
| 11:37:08 | kugel | but pthread isn't really more native than pth, so if I'd have to choose one I would pick the one I know rockbox will work with |
| 11:39:41 | kugel | I'd even say pth is more portable |
| 11:41:06 | gevaerts | Well, we'd keep our current abstraction layer for threads anyway I think, so in the end different targets can have their own thread.c |
| 11:43:13 | kugel | I'm thinking that even if we manage to run under preemptive threads, it doesn't have a real advantage |
| 11:45:14 | linuxstb | Isn't the advantage that Rockbox is doing what the underlying OS expects applications to do? So it should be more efficient, and in a way, simpler. |
| 11:46:12 | kugel | and using plain ansi c library calls (make/swapcontext or set/longjmp) is not what the OS expects? |
| 11:46:15 | linuxstb | But yes, "explore possiblities to run under preemptive multithreading" seems a sensible thing to do first. The decision can be made after that. |
| 11:49:08 | topik | with rockbox r25494 i get 'undefined instruction at 3077C450' on my fuze v1 |
| 11:49:30 | topik | after the rockbox logo, before entering the main menu |
| 11:50:10 | n1s | how many threads will raaa use anyway?, UI, playback, codec, buffering? Does multithreading even bring a benefit? |
| 11:51:20 | kugel | linuxstb: pth doesn't use an underlying thread library. it's a self-contained library, so basically the same as pthread (just cooperative). so I don't think it's less efficient than pthread |
| 11:52:23 | kugel | besides, pthread isn't completely implemented on android |
| 11:54:50 | topik | same problem mitk describes i suppose. did you have a chance to have that look, kugel? |
| 11:55:14 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 11:57:19 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 12:00 |
| 12:01:41 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 12:08:30 | linuxstb | kugel: Linux isn't the only kernel RaaA could run on though. There's WinCE, Symbian, OSX, ... I don't know what threading models they use. |
| 12:09:02 | linuxstb | Maybe targetting something non-Linux would be beneficial, to introduce diversity. Or at least thinking about them. |
| 12:10:01 | kugel | sure, but I wanted to focus on unix like devices |
| 12:10:32 | kugel | but as I mentioned in the proposal, the final decision on the target device hasn't been made yet, I suggested a decision deadline for july, so I'm still open |
| 12:12:08 | kugel | I would prefer android or maemo because that's the devices I'm interested in. as the gsoc project most probably involves buying one I would rather buy one which I'm interested in outside of gsoc too |
| 12:15:03 | linuxstb | I'm just saying that it would be useful to at least read about a diverse selection of targets, as the aim (IMO) is to lay the groundwork for new ports. |
| 12:15:56 | Zagor | pth looks interesting |
| 12:18:05 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (~felixbrun@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 12:20:01 | kugel | topik: I think I can imagine the problem |
| 12:20:36 | topik | kugel: just posted a bug report on flyspray. i didn't select the right options though, so feel free to correct or remove it |
| 12:22:00 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25495): Revert unrelated part of r25491 : fuzev1 init code works again |
| 12:24:37 | | Quit Eugenpaul (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 12:25:56 | | Join Luca_S [0] (~5d3fc54b@giant.haxx.se) |
| 12:30:02 | topik | thanks funman. works like a charm |
| 12:30:40 | * | JdGordon 's ipod isnt turning on after doing a batt bench :( |
| 12:31:01 | | Part LinusN |
| 12:31:36 | Luca_S | fuzev2 screen corruption is much more frequent when boosted - i quite expected the opposite |
| 12:33:14 | JdGordon | 18h sitting in the "hw info" debug screen (so no skining running at all)... so either its all bad, or the theme engine doesnt affect runtime at all (anymore) |
| 12:34:48 | Luca_S | shouldn't panic messages turn on backlight? |
| 12:37:50 | kugel | funman, it wasn't really an unrelated change |
| 12:39:40 | | Quit JdGordon_ (Quit: Bye) |
| 12:44:09 | topik | thank you too kugel, for looking |
| 12:44:48 | kugel | I edited my proposal to reflect the comments made and our thread discussion |
| 12:46:21 | topik | is there any possible RaaA target device you already have your eye on, kugel? |
| 12:46:40 | kugel | htc desire seems nice :) |
| 12:46:44 | JdGordon | Raaa by definition sholdnt be targete to a specific device! |
| 12:47:06 | topik | no, but i read he plans to buy one as a test target |
| 12:47:19 | topik | so i was wondering if there was a leading candidate |
| 12:48:43 | kugel | JdGordon: the point is of course laying the groundwork application port that is easy to port to a specific device (or rather, a specific host OS) |
| 12:49:02 | linuxstb | JdGordon: It has to target specific devices at some point... |
| 12:49:11 | | Join watto [0] (~watto@193.203.81.165) |
| 12:49:56 | topik | htc desire is a shiny device. the raw power will be unusual for rockbox to experience |
| 12:53:10 | kugel | the port to a specific platform is rather to prove and ensure the resulting application is really portable straight-forward. I think the port doesn't desperatively need to run flawless but it should show the groundwork that has been laid is useful |
| 12:54:28 | linuxstb | kugel: That's something else to think about - how to target different devices running the same OS. e.g. do we want to create many Android ports, or a univeral "run-anywhere" binary. |
| 12:57:37 | topik | other android music devices could be inspiration for an answer to that question |
| 12:57:42 | topik | music apps even |
| 12:58:20 | linuxstb | The problem is that Rockbox currently expects to know everything about the target device at compile-time. |
| 12:58:38 | linuxstb | (or most things...) |
| 12:58:49 | linuxstb | Exceptions are some optional hardware, such as FM tuners. |
| 12:59:34 | kugel | most importantly, display resolution |
| 12:59:38 | linuxstb | But I guess with Android we don't even know exactly what CPU we'll be running on... |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:05 | JdGordon | kugel: "and the skin engine where I was the first to use it outside of the WPS with the base skin." <- no you wasnt :) |
| 13:02:07 | kugel | I meant "in svn", I didn't count the various dirty hacks before that |
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| 13:03:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:09:19 | | Quit liar (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 13:09:31 | | Quit planetbeing (Quit: planetbeing) |
| 13:09:33 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 13:12:50 | | Part watto |
| 13:15:49 | pamaury | gevaerts: did you ever think that there might be something wrong with usb string descriptors ? I was sniffing usb packets for usb audio under windows when I noticed it: even in Linux with svn head, most string descriptor response are ill-formed, I'm not sure if it's a |
| 13:16:01 | pamaury | problem with wireshark or a real problem |
| 13:21:16 | | Quit blairb_ (Quit: Leaving) |
| 13:21:40 | JdGordon | gevaerts: re that broken theme... if its being caused by the playlist viewer then its a dupe (reported int he forums though i tihnk)... I cant imagine how that causes things to break, but ill have a looky anyway |
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| 13:40:42 | Eugenpaul | hello! I'm a one more student wishing to participate in gsoc |
| 13:40:54 | gevaerts | Welcome! |
| 13:41:17 | Eugenpaul | I think I'll be able to optimize mp3 codec |
| 13:43:27 | Eugenpaul | Can someone give me some advices? Like where can i find current rockbox decoder algorithm |
| 13:43:55 | Eugenpaul | anyone*) |
| 13:44:02 | gevaerts | You'll need one of our codec people then |
| 13:44:06 | * | gevaerts looks around |
| 13:44:32 | gevaerts | linuxstb, stripwax: ping |
| 13:44:57 | Bagder | the "algorithm" would be in the source |
| 13:46:06 | JdGordon | kugel: re SBS updating more often. according to my batt benchs the theme engine wastes no additional cpu, so I dont see any reason to not drop that update delay to something like HZ/10 or faster even |
| 13:46:26 | JdGordon | I understand its wasteful updating every button press (pretty much only when scrolling anyway) |
| 13:46:28 | stripwax | gevaerts - pong, but I'm heading off ... |
| 13:46:40 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 13:46:49 | gevaerts | stripwax: ok, you can't help then. You know about codecs, right? :) |
| 13:47:02 | stripwax | Eugenpaul - in the rockbox svn code, take a look at the apps/codecs tree |
| 13:47:04 | linuxstb | Eugenpaul: All our codecs are in the apps/codecs/ directory in the Rockbox source. |
| 13:47:15 | Torne | JdGordon: why does the SBS vanish while certain things are happening? |
| 13:47:23 | stripwax | mp3 is implemented using libmad, in apps/codecs/libmad |
| 13:47:24 | Torne | JdGordon: i can understand it not updating but disappearing is weird |
| 13:47:35 | JdGordon | Torne: specific example? |
| 13:47:39 | Torne | JdGordon: splashes |
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| 13:47:55 | linuxstb | Eugenpaul: Do you have experience with audio codecs, or embedded programming? |
| 13:47:58 | Eugenpaul | well, i know) |
| 13:48:09 | JdGordon | what is probably happening is the theme is disabled which causes a full screen clear, then it is reneabled which shuold cause an update |
| 13:48:33 | Torne | JdGordon: committing db does it over and over again eveyr second or so, i presume because it's looping and doing splashes repeatedly |
| 13:48:44 | Torne | makes the status bar flash on and off crazily the whole time |
| 13:48:46 | JdGordon | IIRC splashes always disable the theme |
| 13:49:00 | Torne | hm |
| 13:49:01 | JdGordon | which might be stupid... |
| 13:49:02 | | Quit TillW (Quit: This now concludes our broatcast day.) |
| 13:49:03 | Torne | it just looks weird :) |
| 13:49:30 | JdGordon | ah, yeah, we had the problem where if we didnt disable it we need to somehow clear the splashed area after it shuold be removed |
| 13:49:33 | JdGordon | which isnt so easy |
| 13:50:00 | Torne | fair enough. as long as there's a good reason :) |
| 13:51:01 | kugel | JdGordon: as I said, we can consider lowering it to HZ/10 |
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| 13:58:41 | Eugenpaul | linuxstb: sorry for delay, i don't have real experience in this, but i know basics of mp3 decoding, |
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| 13:59:51 | Bagder | Eugenpaul: so without experience in this field, why or how do you think you can optimize the mp3 codec? |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:00:39 | Bagder | I guess that's what your application would need to include :-) |
| 14:01:42 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 14:02:01 | Eugenpaul | i have experience in c, assembler, know about signal processing, love rockbox) and really want to do it |
| 14:02:13 | linuxstb | Eugenpaul: If you don't have any experience, then your best choice would be to start work on it now - i.e. download the Rockbox source, and try and identify areas for improvement. Also, just working on the mp3 codec alone may not be an entire summer's work. |
| 14:02:20 | | Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@90-224-30-68-no112.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:04:01 | * | amiconn still thinks that RaaA can't be the future of rockbox |
| 14:04:35 | Bagder | can't be? |
| 14:05:00 | amiconn | Imo being a firmware in its own right is what makes rockbox rockbox |
| 14:05:35 | amiconn | RaaA wouldn't be rockbox anymore, but just one among dozens of music player programs |
| 14:05:38 | linuxstb | Bagder: Do you see it as the _only_ future for Rockbox? I can't imagine us dropping support for running Rockbox natively... |
| 14:05:39 | n1s | JdGordon: couldn't the update freq be um, smart, so it updates as fast as it needs, for example using the smallest time of a set max time (like 1/5s and smallest alternating subline delay and the delay of any scrolling text) or would that be too complicated |
| 14:05:41 | n1s | ? |
| 14:06:00 | Bagder | I don't see as the _only_ future, no. |
| 14:06:15 | n1s | amiconn: i see it as *a* future for rockbox |
| 14:06:25 | Bagder | we still even support charcells, I don't think we need to drop anything |
| 14:06:30 | JdGordon | n1s: lines are only redrawn if they are dynamic lines. the update freq isthe time between checking if lines should be updated |
| 14:06:34 | n1s | I'd really like a usable raaa on my netbook |
| 14:07:10 | amiconn | No, as long as devices running rockbox as a firmware still exist, rockbox probably will as well |
| 14:07:13 | | Join Zagor_ [0] (~bjst@2a00:801:f5:fff8:216:6fff:fe3b:5ef5) |
| 14:07:46 | Bagder | but to me personally, I won't be using Rockbox unless it can continue as an app... |
| 14:07:50 | n1s | JdGordon: but wasn't the updatefreq discussion triggered by a user with an animation that used alternating sublines with shorter delay than 1/5s? |
| 14:07:56 | linuxstb | So we all agree that the future is Rockbox running as both an application and as a native firmware? |
| 14:08:07 | gevaerts | rockbox.rock! |
| 14:08:17 | * | amiconn doesn't see a point in RaaA |
| 14:08:18 | n1s | linuxstb: i do at least |
| 14:08:45 | JdGordon | n1s: well yes, but the sublines times change depending on which are enabled at any time... I dont tihnk adding those smarts is a good idea |
| 14:08:57 | n1s | ok |
| 14:09:06 | | Join watto [0] (~watto@193.203.81.165) |
| 14:10:10 | JdGordon | well, at least not untill we have a single timeout for all skin-enalbed screens |
| 14:10:21 | JdGordon | all button loops use mostly rnadom timout values |
| 14:10:26 | | Join jgarvey [0] (~jgarvey@cpe-065-190-066-089.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 14:10:29 | n1s | ah |
| 14:11:47 | amiconn | The devices which potentially *could* benefit from RaaA can't run it, and the devices which could can also run another music player of choice |
| 14:11:47 | | Join evilnick_B [0] (~0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 14:12:48 | linuxstb | Which devices can't run it? |
| 14:13:11 | linuxstb | But I think the point is that no other music player of choice has Rockbox's features. |
| 14:13:20 | | Join TillW [0] (~Till@nat028.dc-uoit.net) |
| 14:13:47 | amiconn | foobar2000? VLC? Just to name two |
| 14:14:06 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 14:14:42 | linuxstb | And they run on the devices we're talking about? |
| 14:14:46 | amiconn | And the devices which can't run it I was thinking of are those mobile phones only capable of running java stuff |
| 14:15:13 | amiconn | But then those don't have much storage either |
| 14:16:02 | pamaury | I personally see no point in RaaA as I hate mobile-phones-that-do-everything but my opinion can change, and I understand people have an interest in that |
| 14:16:11 | Bagder | android phones have no equivalent music player, just to mention one platform |
| 14:17:07 | linuxstb | pamaury: I agree, I have no desire to play music on my phone. But lots of people just have (or want) one device... |
| 14:17:22 | n1s | amiconn: foobar is windows only and i personally don't like vlc as a music player (altough i can't give any concrete arguments) |
| 14:18:04 | * | evilnick_B would dearly love Rockbox on the iPhone |
| 14:18:29 | n1s | anyway, the specialized DAP's will not go away i think, there will always be people that don't have smartphones or want to have massive storage for lossless |
| 14:19:00 | pamaury | Furthermore, mobile phones will never reach the battery autonomy of a DAP ! And mobile phones are huge, heavy, not very practical in some situations |
| 14:19:20 | amiconn | Sure, foobar is windows only. That's because I just named two, and I'm more of a windows user than a linux user |
| 14:19:52 | linuxstb | amiconn: I haven't found any music player on Linux I like as much as Rockbox... |
| 14:19:56 | amiconn | VLC is cross platform though, and it's quite good |
| 14:20:33 | pamaury | mobile phones will soon be so powerful that you will be able to run foobar with wine with a linux emulator on your iPhone... |
| 14:20:49 | | Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@90-224-30-68-no112.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:20:55 | * | linuxstb wonders how Rockbox would cope with other processes adding/removing files during playback... |
| 14:21:13 | gevaerts | linuxstb: someone will find out :) |
| 14:21:15 | JdGordon | should work fine |
| 14:21:22 | JdGordon | playback just skips missing tracks |
| 14:24:54 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@skatol.ch.pw.edu.pl) |
| 14:25:11 | n1s | could anyone who knows coldfire take a quick look at this, http://pastie.org/905470 looks like yet another gcc bug to me |
| 14:26:46 | wodz | n1s: whats the problem with that? |
| 14:28:09 | n1s | wodz, isn't the upper half of a0 any junk that was there before after the move.w? |
| 14:28:28 | wodz | a0 is not cleared so this may have side effects in my opinion |
| 14:28:35 | n1s | so then doing cmp.l on that will um, be bad= |
| 14:28:36 | n1s | ? |
| 14:29:50 | wodz | yes You may have junk in upper word of a0 and doing cmp.l is not good idea here |
| 14:30:06 | n1s | ok, so gcc is buggy, yay |
| 14:30:50 | n1s | of course, i should test a newer version |
| 14:30:57 | pamaury | n1s: I don't know coldfire assembly but if the move.w doesn't clear upper part, this is buggy |
| 14:31:10 | n1s | pamaury: it doesn't |
| 14:31:30 | wodz | n1s: maybe gcc knows that a0 will be 0 when SATURATE() is called |
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| 14:32:08 | n1s | wodz: sounds unlikely, since i compiled the function in its own file |
| 14:32:24 | n1s | maybe i should try a better testcase |
| 14:32:37 | pamaury | How would gcc know ? Try to compile it with "extern" so gcc can't make any assumption, I doubt zeroing a0 is part of the calling convention |
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| 14:54:55 | n1s | seems to be doing it in cases where it definitely gets called when a0 != 0 |
| 14:55:21 | * | n1s puts "tet bug on new gcc on todo list" |
| 14:55:47 | n1s | s/tet/test/ |
| 14:56:12 | n1s | s/gcc on todo list"/gcc" on todo list |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:54:41 | saratoga | Eugenpaul: ping |
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| 15:57:03 | saratoga | Eugenpaul: i have to step out for a few minutes, but we should discuss the mp3 project, I have a lot of ideas about it |
| 15:57:08 | saratoga | will you be online later? |
| 15:57:50 | | Quit mitk (Quit: Leaving) |
| 15:58:40 | Eugenpaul | saratoga: yes? |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:00 | Eugenpaul | saratoga: i will be online now for few minutes and about 2 hours later once again |
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| 16:11:59 | Lixun | Hi, I'm a student interested in participating in GSOC. How is the workload rockbox expecting me to commit? |
| 16:12:25 | Lixun | is it like a full-time internship or part-time? |
| 16:12:40 | linuxstb | It's supposed to be full-time. |
| 16:12:51 | linuxstb | (I think that's google's advice) |
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| 16:14:09 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 16:14:28 | Lixun | thank you. because i have another part-time job during vacation so I'm wondering whether I can balance two or not |
| 16:16:09 | linuxstb | I think it would depend on the hours you were working in the part-time job, and what kind of work it was (and of course, how many hours a day you are personably able to work effectively each day...) |
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| 16:17:53 | Lixun | the job is like 20hrs per week |
| 16:17:58 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 16:18:38 | Lixun | it's about C# coding |
| 16:19:35 | Lixun | for rockbox, I think I should be able to guarantee 30hrs at least per week |
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| 16:24:27 | linuxstb | Lixun: Feel free to apply, but all other things being equal, I think we are probably more likely to choose an applicant who doesn't have other commitments. A full-time job is about 35-40 hours per week. |
| 16:28:04 | Lixun | I see. Thanks. |
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| 16:29:33 | gevaerts | Of course, depending on your application, all other things might not be equal |
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| 16:35:14 | Luca_S | how strange. FuzeV2. I was sitting in the debug > buffering info screen while playing a song, when I moved the scrollwheel: playback skipped to the next song o_O is this the intended behavior? |
| 16:35:38 | saratoga | I think it is, so that you can watch what happens to the buffer on track change |
| 16:35:43 | saratoga | its a debug screen afterall |
| 16:36:15 | | Quit TillW (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:36:42 | Torne | yes, it is intentional; the buttons that normally scroll lists are mapped to next/prev track in the buffering screen |
| 16:36:52 | Luca_S | interesting - indeed it makes sense. i was surprised because it was using the scrollwheel and not the next/prev buttons, but the prev button is used to exit the screen so it might be reasonable |
| 16:37:09 | Torne | Yeah, it's reusing the list context iirc |
| 16:37:18 | Torne | so it has the same button mappings as other lists/menus |
| 16:38:02 | Luca_S | thanks for the explanations |
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| 16:42:57 | niekie | Hum. |
| 16:43:06 | niekie | Is there a way to get the database viewer translated? |
| 16:43:52 | niekie | Things like Artist, Album Artist, Album, Genre, Composer, Track, Year, User Rating . . . etc are not translated currently. |
| 16:44:32 | niekie | Seems the language files aren't used for it, but tagnavi.config |
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| 17:00 |
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| 17:07:07 | archivator | Is there any interest in a self-sustained minimalistic maintenance app for Rockbox? Rbutil Lite - something that can be put on your DAP Autorun-style and do basic maintenance every time your player connects to a pc - purge the database of expired entries (last time I checked, rockbox only marks them as expired), check for newer versions and run a file system check? I was thinking of something sub-1MB that just works. I remember distinctly a project to |
| 17:07:07 | archivator | merge elf and pex executables into one file, that could be pretty sweet. |
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| 17:09:56 | Blue_Dude | Please check out FS #11178 - bookmark update. It needs a little tweaking to remove an unused token but it's more or less ready to go. |
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| 17:31:50 | GodEater | whilst RaaA on the iphone is probably interesting for a niche crowd, I'm still against using EmbeddedOSX as a target given the problems we'd face ever getting it accepted into the app store. It would only ever run on jailbroken devices and we cannot guarantee that JBing will always be possible. |
| 17:32:16 | GodEater | Android desperately needs a decent music player - the one on the N1 is barely adequate |
| 17:32:23 | saratoga | you're concerned about official support for a rockbox port? |
| 17:32:31 | saratoga | when has that even been an issue for us in the past? |
| 17:32:39 | GodEater | it hasn't of course |
| 17:33:07 | GodEater | but the audience of iphone users that JB is much smaller than the audience of Android users who wouldn't have to |
| 17:33:28 | linuxstb | GodEater: I don't think anyone thinks embedded OS/X is the priority target (or one we should ask a student to do). Or do they? |
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| 17:33:51 | GodEater | linuxstb: I was just commenting on evilnick_B's statement earlier |
| 17:34:07 | saratoga | well its very unixy and has very nice dev tools and wide library support |
| 17:34:20 | saratoga | so its probably at least as good a target from a technical stand point as Android |
| 17:34:20 | GodEater | I was also about to say I agree with your statement about lack of decent media players on linux in general |
| 17:34:27 | GodEater | I'd love RaaA as a native desktop app |
| 17:34:49 | Torne | saratoga: apart from in the GUI.. |
| 17:34:52 | GodEater | saratoga: the dev environment is nearly all Objective-C isn't it? |
| 17:34:57 | | Quit fyrestorm (Quit: Ur skills' fireproof like a wooden panel -- U got feds talking leet on your IRC channel!) |
| 17:34:57 | Torne | where you are more or less required to use Cocoa Touch |
| 17:35:06 | saratoga | verses android and java :) |
| 17:35:20 | Torne | porting the UI of an existing app to iphoneos is pretty hard |
| 17:35:27 | saratoga | imo objective c using gcc is a bit closer to what we want then java |
| 17:35:29 | * | linuxstb also isn't keen on Android, but we have to choose something... |
| 17:35:52 | GodEater | linuxstb: you already said you're not interested in running RaaA on a mobile at all ;) |
| 17:36:02 | saratoga | I think OSX is probably the easiest target followed closely by pure linux phones and then android |
| 17:36:09 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 17:36:12 | linuxstb | GodEater: Oh yeah... I'll shut up then. ;) |
| 17:36:17 | saratoga | mostly because theres so much information available and it uses gcc |
| 17:36:29 | linuxstb | Wouldn't maemo be easier? |
| 17:36:38 | archivator | Android has a native development kit, right? |
| 17:36:39 | GodEater | the other big issue with the iPhone as a target means you ideally need OSX as a dev platform |
| 17:36:49 | GodEater | setting up the iPhone tool chain on linux, whilst possible, is not fun |
| 17:36:57 | GodEater | (speaking as a man who's done it) |
| 17:37:03 | saratoga | i think the linux tool chain is adequate though |
| 17:37:15 | GodEater | saratoga: did you ever set it up? |
| 17:37:24 | GodEater | archivator: yep, there's the NDK for android |
| 17:37:42 | saratoga | and probably not much worse then setting up embedded tools for most linux phones which typically involved pirating various libraries . . . |
| 17:37:59 | saratoga | GodEater: no but I've read about people using it in the distant past |
| 17:38:00 | GodEater | yep, you definitely need to do that |
| 17:38:15 | GodEater | Nico_P and I both set it up, and it's really not fun |
| 17:38:16 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 17:38:21 | archivator | Well, that's pure C with a way to communicate with the dalvik layer, isn't it? Sounds reasonable to me, given that most of the stuff can be kept outside of dalvik. |
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| 17:39:33 | GodEater | the toughest bit is extracting some of the libs from the the X-Code image files on linux |
| 17:40:03 | saratoga | i don't think you're pirating anything, IIRC the SDK is freely available from Apple, you're just misusing it a bit |
| 17:40:15 | GodEater | sure - pirating is a strong term |
| 17:40:18 | | Quit r2k000 (Quit: r2k000) |
| 17:40:19 | GodEater | you're violating the EULA |
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| 17:41:32 | saratoga | for the moto smartphones I think you actually have to BT stuff they never officially released to the public, i.e. actual piracy not just ignoring a EULA clause |
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| 17:48:34 | GodEater | at least with android the SDK is very easy to acquire |
| 17:48:42 | GodEater | can't speak for maemo |
| 17:50:06 | archivator | regarding gsoc, is it a problem if I work at a slow pace till the end of June? I have exams (quite a few, and all difficult at that) and would hate to choose between gsoc and actual academics :) |
| 17:50:56 | geertvdijk | GodEater: Maemo is supposed to be easy to develop for, although I don't think there's an off-the-shelf sdk such as you might find with android. I think it's just the editor/IDE you prefer + Qt libs |
| 17:51:15 | geertvdijk | or GTK+ |
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| 17:51:38 | funman | there's "hildon" although i don't know if it's just a set of gtk+ widgets or something else |
| 17:52:10 | archivator | geertvdijk: there's this: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/Platforms/Maemo/ |
| 17:52:29 | geertvdijk | funman: Hildon I believe is indeed just a set of GTK+ widgets designed for mobile |
| 17:52:32 | | Nick ender is now known as ender` (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 17:52:39 | geertvdijk | archivator: didn't know that, thanks! |
| 18:00 |
| 18:04:25 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 18:04:30 | | Join TopyMobile [0] (~topy@f048209066.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:05:03 | | Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) |
| 18:08:35 | Torne | Maemo is currently GTK+ with the Hildon widgets if you want them, yeah. Qt is not until the next version of the OS |
| 18:10:59 | gevaerts | You can do Qt right now if you want though |
| 18:13:15 | Torne | it only integrates nicely fairly recently, though, i believe |
| 18:13:21 | Torne | the migration path is only just getting going |
| 18:15:10 | gevaerts | I don't know the details very well |
| 18:15:14 | | Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 18:15:20 | funman | pressing buttons have no effect on Clip+ when running test_boost |
| 18:15:33 | funman | same with http://pastie.org/905840 unless i mark action as volatile |
| 18:15:58 | funman | and then going by the disassembly (of the .rock) the only difference is r0 (return of get_action) is stored on the stack then read back immediately after |
| 18:16:47 | kugel | maemo would also be an interesting target imo |
| 18:16:48 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 18:17:13 | kugel | plus, I'd actually like to learn how I can make it run on my mini2440 ;) |
| 18:18:04 | funman | ah nevermind now it works |
| 18:18:14 | | Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@90-224-30-68-no112.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:18:15 | | Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@p57B4A2BC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:18:34 | * | funman adds that to the "random bug" list |
| 18:19:06 | kugel | is that the same one as the mind blow list? :) |
| 18:19:39 | funman | probably, perhaps with enough tests (power off+power on) we would see the good value |
| 18:19:56 | saratoga | do we know why test_codec doesn't work if the codec is in RAM on the clipv2/+? |
| 18:20:43 | funman | i didn't know it didn't work anymore let me look |
| 18:21:02 | kugel | saratoga: it should be in iram now |
| 18:21:08 | funman | kugel: btw why did you make this change in app.lds (and do you know why it didn't work on fuzev1?) |
| 18:22:05 | funman | with your change the init code would just be in plugin ram instead of codec ram |
| 18:22:12 | kugel | I somehow thought putting the init code in the iram (where codec is now) clashes with the rockbox' portion of the iram |
| 18:22:42 | kugel | don't ask me why I thought that, and don't ask me why it didnt work (actually I was just about to ask you the same) |
| 18:22:58 | kugel | ah :\ |
| 18:23:02 | kugel | right, I remember why |
| 18:23:12 | | Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 18:23:32 | kugel | init calls loads skins at some point, and skin loading uses the plugin buffer for caching the .wps/.sbs files |
| 18:23:44 | saratoga | metadata parsing fails according to the error message |
| 18:24:01 | funman | saratoga: ah i had the same problem but didn't find the reason |
| 18:24:08 | funman | metadata parsing works fine in the wps |
| 18:24:22 | kugel | saratoga: did you do a clean recompilation (nuking the build dir)? that often helps if linkage-related stuff changed |
| 18:24:46 | funman | that happens with clean build, i had seen that when i tried to put the codec buffer in iram |
| 18:25:30 | funman | well not the 'failed' message but metadata length was 0 |
| 18:25:35 | | Join Eugenpaul [0] (~ugnpaul@221.199.32.95.dsl-dynamic.vsi.ru) |
| 18:25:59 | funman | i'll try md5sum to see if file reading is really reliable |
| 18:26:46 | Luca_S | maybe that could explain the WPS backdrop sometimes disappearing on fuzev2? bitmap failing to load? |
| 18:26:47 | archivator | domonoky: I have updated FS #11160 as per our discussion. I can't think of anything else to fix/do. The rest is making SAPI and Carbon thread-safe, really. |
| 18:27:05 | funman | Luca_S: come on, that's the only problems you can think of ? there's more :) |
| 18:28:17 | Luca_S | not as many as it may seem! today I reorganized all my music in a single folder so I could play it in rockbox as fine as in the OF :) |
| 18:28:23 | | Join TheSeven [0] (~theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 18:35:47 | * | bertrik wonders how many jpeg implementations we have |
| 18:36:17 | funman | 4 runs boosted, 4 runs unboosted, md5sum OK for the same 4.2 Mb file |
| 18:36:33 | | Quit anewuser (Quit: http://xrl.us/Renoise Like renoise + like music? 3 days to submit your entry!) |
| 18:38:08 | domonoky | archivator: looks good. 3 comments: 1. what is this strange comment in encodeList ? (the list is surely used later). 2. The skipping of empty toSpeak values seems to have got lost (or is it not needed anymore ?) 3. There are TABS instead of spaces in this patch. |
| 18:38:44 | funman | ah but the plugin boosts |
| 18:40:19 | funman | md5sum still OK on 2 runs |
| 18:41:27 | | Join bmbl [0] (~Miranda@unaffiliated/bmbl) |
| 18:42:54 | funman | well playing with test_boost doesn't make the Clip+ crash faster (it is boosting/unboosting several times already when it uses a codec) |
| 18:43:32 | Luca_S | today I noticed that when boosting the fuzev2 has frequent screen corruptions (missing pixels, color shift) |
| 18:43:50 | Luca_S | when unboosted they're still there, but less frequent |
| 18:43:55 | funman | i see corruptions too |
| 18:45:45 | bertrik | are the display data pins still shared with other functions on the fuze v2? |
| 18:46:01 | archivator | domonoky: 1) Yes, it is, but as far as I can tell, we can safely delete the entries we're not going to process from it. Duplicates would point to the same file as another entry, so they can go. Unvoiced entries never created a file, so they can go as well. That's all I meant by "not used" - that the cleanup routines won't mind us deleting a few things from it (especially *these* things) |
| 18:46:58 | archivator | domonoky: 2) It's right there: line 154 in the patched file - "if (!entry.voiced && !entry.toSpeak.isEmpty())" 3) damn, I thought I had gotten vim to behave! Will fix and reupload. |
| 18:47:21 | | Join Lear [0] (chatzilla@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 18:48:00 | | Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
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| 18:49:55 | | Quit scorche (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 18:51:24 | funman | bertrik: you mean buttons? |
| 18:51:46 | bertrik | funman, yes, for example |
| 18:51:51 | funman | doesn't seem so |
| 18:52:37 | domonoky | archivator: about 1) the list is used later by the filecopiing from talkfile.cpp, but it probably doesnt need the invalid entrys. |
| 18:52:53 | pamaury | funman: in svn there is a file called usb-drv-as3525.c, it contains some init code for a usb driver. What is this usb driver ? Of which device(s) I mean. |
| 18:53:56 | archivator | domonoky: well, yes, exactly - we basically make the list have distinct entries filename-wise. I'll change the comment to reflect that, I can see how it can be confusing. |
| 18:54:09 | domonoky | archivator: removing the dublicates might get you problems with talkfiles. |
| 18:54:11 | funman | pamaury: i tested it on Clipv1 or Fuzev1 (don't remember which one) but it doesn't work at all |
| 18:54:22 | | Quit Lear (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]) |
| 18:54:48 | domonoky | pamaury: there might be dublicate strings to talk, but they could exist in different directorys, so the filecopiing needs all entrys. |
| 18:54:49 | funman | i have some more code here which i tested on Fuzev1 but it works randomly, some times i have an USB interrupt, some times I see that Linux saw the device in dmesg, sometimes nothing happens |
| 18:55:22 | ranma | bertrik: Re dbop, you said you had an idea what might cause the button readout noise on C200v2? |
| 18:55:31 | domonoky | ups, archivator instead of pamaury :-) |
| 18:55:43 | bertrik | ranma, yes, it goes away if we disable the tristate between accesses |
| 18:56:00 | | Join Lear [0] (chatzilla@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 18:56:45 | domonoky | archivator: removing entrys where voicing failed might be fine, but the dublicates are a problem. |
| 18:57:35 | | Join Slim [0] (~56b21310@giant.haxx.se) |
| 18:57:41 | Slim | afternoon .. |
| 18:58:38 | archivator | domonoky: I'm not sure I follow. The talkfiles are duplicated, not the encoded filenames. I haven't looked at the actual values but I always assumed they held the whole path. I'm not sure I understand how having two identical entries contributes anything to the process. |
| 18:58:58 | | Quit scorche (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 18:59:11 | | Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 18:59:17 | archivator | Oh, sorry. |
| 18:59:26 | bertrik | funman, I'm checking if those buttons are actually not sharing pins with DBOP |
| 18:59:33 | archivator | domonoky: I was confusing wav and talk, I see now. |
| 18:59:54 | funman | bertrik: you have a fuzev2 ? |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:01 | bertrik | no |
| 19:00:06 | Slim | Can anyone tell me how to determine if a DB initialisation is complete? I have an 80G video iPod running the latest build, and 540 albums. Just don't want to reboot it until it's finished. |
| 19:00:19 | bertrik | I suppose this part is the same as on the as3525 |
| 19:00:38 | archivator | Yeah, that makes sense, but how would I skip them (assuming they've been voiced successfully)? I would need yet another flag to check.. |
| 19:00:58 | ranma | bertrik: Ok, I'll try that. |
| 19:01:31 | funman | kugel: itcm/dtcm registers read as 0 on Clip+ |
| 19:01:35 | funman | (disabled) |
| 19:03:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:03:53 | domonoky | archivator: couldnt you just set the status of the dublicate entry to encoded=true ? then the encoderstep can skip it. |
| 19:04:28 | | Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 19:04:34 | | Join antil33t [0] (~Mudkips@203-184-54-232.callplus.net.nz) |
| 19:04:57 | domonoky | just check the encoded flag before encoding, similar to how its done for voicing. |
| 19:05:38 | bertrik | funman, on as3525, GPIO port C is shared with the DBOP data pins, which also are connected to most of the buttons on the fuze v2. So if some interrupt routine is switching these to input to read them, it might disturb display writing and explain the screen corruptions |
| 19:05:38 | archivator | domonoky: yeah, that would work. Will fix it tonight. |
| 19:05:45 | domonoky | archivator: good :-) |
| 19:06:06 | bertrik | of course I'm not sure if this is the same for the SoC in the fuze v2, since I don't know the pin map of that |
| 19:06:11 | ranma | bertrik: I changed dbop_read_input to not tri-state, but I'm still seeing the noise. |
| 19:06:12 | | Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 19:06:32 | bertrik | weird, that seemed to fix it for me |
| 19:06:55 | Eugenpaul | saratoga: ping |
| 19:07:29 | funman | bertrik: ok, I don't know if kugel tried to read the buttons from dbop |
| 19:07:54 | | Join mitk [0] (~mitk@chello089078013146.chello.pl) |
| 19:08:29 | Eugenpaul | saratoga: it's me again with mp3 project |
| 19:09:36 | ranma | FWIW: Baseline (music or no music, no display updates): almost zero noise, about 20% during display updates (HW info), abou 27% during display updates (HW info) while playing music. |
| 19:10:25 | ranma | (Used this patch to check for noise and show percentage in HW info: ranma/rockbox-c200v2/rockbox-c2x0v2-backlightpatch-20100407-patchset/dbop_noise_check.patch">http://uguu.de/~ranma/rockbox-c200v2/rockbox-c2x0v2-backlightpatch-20100407-patchset/dbop_noise_check.patch) |
| 19:10:26 | funman | did you try to force boosting? |
| 19:12:25 | Slim | ok, thanks anyway - I guess it's a hard one. |
| 19:12:33 | | Quit Slim (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 19:13:10 | | Quit Adubb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 19:13:53 | funman | ranma: btw about the backlight, any problem with setting both pins? |
| 19:15:42 | ranma | 20% while playing with forced boost. |
| 19:15:53 | ranma | funman: Yes, A5 is buttonlight on mine. |
| 19:16:40 | FlynDice | funman: (or any other Samsa folks)My head is exploding with v2 #ifdef's, do you have a problem with splitting set_cpu_frequency() into a v1 and v2 like this: http://pastie.org/905915 |
| 19:17:11 | funman | ranma: and D7 is nothing? |
| 19:17:35 | funman | FlynDice: no problem |
| 19:17:35 | ranma | D7 is the second buttonlight (menu text below power button) |
| 19:17:49 | funman | there are 2 button lights? Oo |
| 19:17:55 | ranma | But A5 is the main one (with 4 leds aparently) |
| 19:18:07 | funman | hm ok |
| 19:18:15 | funman | I don't even know if both are enabled by D7, bertrik ? |
| 19:18:22 | funman | => on the other model |
| 19:18:44 | | Join Adubb [0] (~aldubuc@67.201.160.144) |
| 19:19:19 | bertrik | both on c200v1 and c200v2, they are both enabled |
| 19:19:21 | | Join mikroflops_ [0] (~yogurt@90-224-30-68-no112.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:20:51 | funman | ranma: did you find how the OF decides which one to use? |
| 19:21:39 | ranma | Yes, it's switching A7 to input and reads the value to decide which one to use. |
| 19:21:42 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 19:22:38 | bertrik | didn't I post that information here already on IRC some time ago? |
| 19:22:47 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25496): SansaAMS: Only use INT_MCIO with as3525v1, it is unused in as3525v2. |
| 19:22:53 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25497): AS3525v2: Set XPD to SD-MMC interface in sd_init() for HAVE_MULTIDRIVE. ... |
| 19:22:56 | funman | ok, what do we need for it to be in svn ? |
| 19:22:58 | CIA-5 | New commit by FlynDice (r25498): Sansa AMS: Split set_cpu_frequency() into 2 separate functions for as3525v1/v2 as the code is quite different for each model. |
| 19:23:05 | ranma | funman: http://pastie.org/905957 |
| 19:24:02 | | Quit mikroflops_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 19:24:23 | funman | ranma: looks good, D7 just needs to be set unconditionally of the variant? |
| 19:24:53 | funman | do we ask bertrik to test, or commit and see if someone reports problems in the forum? |
| 19:26:06 | ranma | bertrik: Did you test the rockbox binary I sent you? |
| 19:26:25 | | Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht2@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 19:26:26 | bertrik | no |
| 19:26:41 | ranma | If not yet, please do rather test ranma/rockbox-c200v2/rockbox-c2x0v2-backlightpatch-20100407.zip">http://uguu.de/~ranma/rockbox-c200v2/rockbox-c2x0v2-backlightpatch-20100407.zip |
| 19:28:11 | ranma | funman: I'd vote for committing ;) |
| 19:28:25 | FlynDice | I see the red on r25498 but its not my doing..... |
| 19:28:26 | ranma | BTW the OF does the check in init_hardware at 0x8000 |
| 19:29:35 | ranma | Does sd access generate events that cause _buttonlight_on() to be called? |
| 19:29:40 | * | funman slaps FlynDice with an archos player |
| 19:29:45 | funman | hm that's heavy :/ |
| 19:30:11 | ranma | If not, sd access is so noisy that it defeats my noise check in dbop_read_input()... |
| 19:30:21 | * | FlynDice rubs eye and swears he didn't touch nuthin over there..... |
| 19:30:23 | funman | ranma: no but since sd accesses yield() there could be another thread doing it |
| 19:31:26 | ranma | But another thread should only be calling it if there is some button action, right? |
| 19:33:01 | bertrik | ranma, your zipfile works, I can control the backlight brightness now |
| 19:33:34 | ranma | I've half-added the buttonlight to backlight pwm in that patch so that the buttonlight brightness is increasing a bit when _buttonlight_on() is called and during initial buffering I see heavy buttonlight flicker. :) |
| 19:33:50 | funman | ranma: grep only shows drivers/button.c and plugin api |
| 19:34:01 | | Join mt [0] (~chatzilla@41.233.147.253) |
| 19:34:09 | ranma | bertrik: The working part is where it detects the variant correctly ;) |
| 19:34:58 | ranma | bertrik: It should show 'C200v2 variant 0' in HW info |
| 19:35:31 | ranma | (And if it would missdetect you should have a dark backlight anyway) |
| 19:35:54 | bertrik | yes it does say variant 0 |
| 19:36:23 | bertrik | I can see the display flicker a bit if I move the player around |
| 19:36:37 | bertrik | I'll check if this is also present in the OF |
| 19:36:44 | ranma | bertrik: Yeah, that's because of the software pwm. Looks the same in OF |
| 19:36:57 | ranma | If you increase brightness to max it should be constant on. |
| 19:37:49 | bertrik | that's why I set it to exactly half brightness :) |
| 19:38:16 | funman | ranma: did you run battery_bench already ? |
| 19:38:38 | ranma | Ok, so I suppose I'll commit the backlight variant detection real soon now :) |
| 19:38:45 | funman | nice |
| 19:38:55 | ranma | funman: I did one once |
| 19:39:04 | funman | you remember the runtime? |
| 19:39:40 | ranma | Should be in the forum thread, IIRC about 8-9 hours. |
| 19:39:48 | bertrik | do you think the backlight has its own variant, or is it the whole player that has two variants? |
| 19:39:52 | | Join Luca_S [0] (~5712526b@giant.haxx.se) |
| 19:40:11 | bertrik | I can confirm the OF flickers too, but it seems a bit less obvious than rockbox |
| 19:40:54 | ranma | Hmm, make that 4:17 |
| 19:41:08 | funman | ranma: hm did you run it after my fix for FM radio? |
| 19:41:20 | ranma | I was about to say that was before your FM radio fix :) |
| 19:42:26 | ranma | bertrik: It's most likely a higher frequency. The current one uses the 100Hz timer and doesn't increase frequency for PWM. |
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| 20:00 |
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| 20:05:28 | saratoga_lab | Eugenpaul: ping |
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| 20:06:36 | Eugenpaul | saratoga_lab: i'm here |
| 20:08:40 | saratoga_lab | Eugenpaul: i suggested the mp3 project |
| 20:08:57 | saratoga_lab | the idea was to look at libmad and other open source decoders and figure out how fast they could be made |
| 20:09:08 | saratoga_lab | then make improvements in libmad until it was as fast as possible |
| 20:09:26 | saratoga_lab | at present we have ideas about how to improve libmad, but no solid idea how good the codec itself is compared to other decoders |
| 20:09:57 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:10:13 | saratoga_lab | the project would involve learning about mp3 decoding and going piece by piece through the codec comparing to other implementations |
| 20:10:50 | Eugenpaul | yes |
| 20:11:55 | | Join leavittx [0] (~leavittx@89.221.199.187) |
| 20:12:48 | saratoga_lab | its a difficult project in that we don't have a good idea how much improvement is possible |
| 20:12:54 | | Join leavittx__ [0] (~leavittx@89.221.199.187) |
| 20:13:13 | saratoga_lab | you said you had done some DSP before, but never any codec stuff right? |
| 20:13:59 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@chello087206240004.chello.pl) |
| 20:14:07 | Eugenpaul | yes, i know about dsp from university |
| 20:16:39 | saratoga_lab | what stuff have you learned about? |
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| 20:19:50 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 20:19:58 | freddyb | Did some testing on Fuze v2 recording and the FIFO runs out in the do_sw_pwm function. I tried changing the INT_TIMER2 so that it stacks do_sw_pwm in front of whatever was executing on return so that do_sw_pwm would be interruptible but I don't know ARM well enough. (The linker called me some very bad names.) |
| 20:21:59 | kugel | freddyb: can you try http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11172 ? it removes the scrollwheel portion of the button read |
| 20:24:14 | Eugenpaul | saratoga_lab: i'm trying to remember... it was something like fourie transform, multiplexing... |
| 20:24:45 | saratoga_lab | Eugenpaul: can you be more specific, DSP is something you can take a class in or a doctorate, knowing where you are along that line is helpful |
| 20:25:06 | | Quit _zic (Quit: Leaving) |
| 20:25:33 | kugel | freddyb: is the fifo so small? I find it strange that it doesn't surive the tick tasks |
| 20:26:30 | kugel | we could do it like the of, it blocks button reading if the display is busy but I would rather avoid that |
| 20:28:27 | freddyb | kugel: i'm compiling your scrollwheel patch now |
| 20:29:15 | Eugenpaul | saratoga_lab: it was classes |
| 20:29:40 | freddyb | FIFO is 32 words |
| 20:29:54 | | Quit TillW (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 20:30:44 | | Quit mitk (Quit: Leaving) |
| 20:31:20 | wodz | I found out that to play mp3 on my MPIO hd200 it runs at ~100MHz while other coldfire based DAPs needs ~30MHz. Could it be that difference comes from generic ata code vs. asm optimized reads? |
| 20:31:32 | kugel | is there some fifo almost empty interrupt? maybe it's possible to run that in the fiq so it's possible to refill it during the timer isr |
| 20:31:35 | gevaerts | unlikely I think |
| 20:31:56 | saratoga_lab | wodz: i would check that you have IRAM properly defined and that you are enablign all the coldfire ASM code in the codecs |
| 20:32:11 | saratoga_lab | missing either of those would result in a huge decrease in performance on coldfire |
| 20:32:26 | kugel | wodz: you probably need to go through the codec files and look for IRAM defines which are not yet enabled for *your* cf target. coldfire's ram is slow |
| 20:32:49 | CIA-5 | New commit by ranma (r25499): Detect C200v2 variant by reading A7, use A5 or A7 to control backlight and buttonlight depending on the result. |
| 20:32:51 | | Quit flydutch (Quit: /* empty */) |
| 20:32:54 | saratoga_lab | I think IRAM should be all or nothing, very few defines are target dependent |
| 20:33:14 | wodz | saratoga_lab: whats strange ogg decoding is realtime ~120MHz |
| 20:33:16 | saratoga_lab | check the .map file for libmad and see if it links to IRAM |
| 20:34:02 | freddyb | Kugel: We interrupt on half full, almost full, and full. I tried adding almost empty yesterday without any difference. |
| 20:34:03 | saratoga_lab | or vorbis if you prefer |
| 20:34:22 | | Quit TopyMobile (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 20:34:41 | kugel | freddyb: we'd need the fiq in order to interrupt irqs |
| 20:34:52 | Eugenpaul | saratoga_lab: maybe i understand you incorrect? what should i say? my knowledge is not deep enough, but i think i have basics and i am ready to learn |
| 20:35:13 | saratoga_lab | Eugenpaul: no I just want to know what you've already learned about DSP |
| 20:35:39 | kugel | i believe it's currently used for the pcm callback, but audio playing (with pcm involved) and recording at the same time is not possible so it should be possible to use it for the recording callback |
| 20:36:58 | freddyb | Kugel: I don't think it would take much to use fiq instead of irq but the way we do irq's the fiq will not trump it. I think the whole do_sw_pwm is in uninterruptible irq mode. I tried some changes based on the sample code in PL190 datasheet but didn't have any luck. |
| 20:37:37 | kugel | the fiq is a special interrupt on arm which can interrupt irqs |
| 20:41:00 | freddyb | Kugel: I like the patch, can the same thing be done for the buttons? It seems stable for recording at 44kHz but still crashes on 96kHz. |
| 20:41:16 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (~felixbrun@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 20:41:46 | kugel | I dont think it can, the button pins don't change without setting some other pins before |
| 20:42:13 | wodz | saratoga_lab: from vorbis.map part is linked to dram part to iram |
| 20:42:31 | saratoga_lab | wodz: that should be fine then |
| 20:42:55 | | Join TillW [0] (~Till@h92-net09.simres.netcampus.ca) |
| 20:43:27 | saratoga_lab | can you also verify that it defines "CPU_COLDFIRE" in the codecs? |
| 20:43:51 | saratoga_lab | that enables EMAC instructions in libmad, which are very important for performance |
| 20:44:03 | saratoga_lab | if that is defined, I would also check that ICACHE is properly enabled |
| 20:44:30 | saratoga_lab | also that you've clocked the CPU as high as you think you have :) |
| 20:44:41 | bertrik | gevaerts, does the IO priority commit also apply to flash targets? |
| 20:44:43 | kugel | freddyb: how do you like the scrollwheel behavior with it? |
| 20:44:58 | freddyb | Very much. |
| 20:45:05 | gevaerts | bertrik: it's enabled for flash. Whether or not it helps much is a different matter |
| 20:45:15 | bertrik | did it get slower or faster? |
| 20:45:19 | wodz | saratoga_lab: hmm where should be CPU_COLDFIRE defined? |
| 20:45:26 | kugel | freddyb: better than before? |
| 20:45:56 | kugel | wodz: config.h probably |
| 20:46:42 | freddyb | The scroll speed seems the same but much more responsive. |
| 20:47:44 | wodz | ok I definitely have CPU_COLDFIRE defined than |
| 20:47:58 | | Join TopyMobile [0] (~topy@f048210034.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:48:03 | * | archivator just found about Cepstral LLC and their fabulous voices |
| 20:48:14 | archivator | Perhaps we should add their engine to rbutil? |
| 20:48:38 | wodz | CC apps/codecs/libmad/imdct_mcf5249.S makes me think it takes the correct one |
| 20:49:21 | | Join fml [0] (~53ecea55@giant.haxx.se) |
| 20:50:12 | fml | Wouldn't the sansa C200v2 variant checking code an ideal candidate for the init func (recently introduced)? |
| 20:50:52 | kugel | I think so |
| 20:51:09 | kugel | ranma: I'm not sure we want " /* vim:set ts=4 sw=4 et: */" in our files |
| 20:52:51 | gevaerts | I'm pretty sure we don't want it |
| 20:54:49 | fml | kugel: I have no SVN access now so if you want you can introduce the attribute |
| 20:55:08 | bertrik | what init func? |
| 20:55:51 | fml | bertrik: function that's only run once during the initialisation and then overwritten |
| 20:56:06 | bertrik | ah ok |
| 20:56:50 | bertrik | gevaerts, I'm not noticing any obvious delays or speedups on my e200 |
| 20:57:36 | gevaerts | bertrik: well, I don't think it can cause delays at all, and speedups will be limited due to flash already being fast |
| 21:00 |
| 21:01:28 | archivator | I'd like to repeat a question from earlier today: is there any interest in a small cross-platform maintenance utility to be run Autorun-style? I'm thinking database purging, file system checks and updating as part of the functionality. Something small that runs everytime you connect the player to a PC.. |
| 21:02:27 | gevaerts | archivator: if you want to do that, go ahead, but personally I think it's not a wonderful idea |
| 21:03:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:03:51 | archivator | Well, if I'll be doing it, I'd like it to be more than a long script. I see it as an rbutil extra, updated as part of the tree. |
| 21:05:26 | gevaerts | I don't really understand what you mean by database purging, filesystem checks can't really work if the tool to run them is on the same filesystem (and I think automated filesystem checks on plugin are a bad idea anyway), and I think automatic updates are a bit dangerous |
| 21:06:17 | | Quit fml (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 21:08:18 | archivator | gevaerts: last I checked, rockbox doesn't really delete entries from the database, it just sets a flag to skip them. That's what I mean - actually removing the deleted entries. A filesystem check can check for errors (and, on Windows, fix some of them). A warning along the lines of "Your filesystem is corrupted, fix it!" can be quite helpful. Automatic updates can be dangerous but they can also be something the user wants. |
| 21:13:41 | gevaerts | Wouldn't a host-side thing be better? i.e. a set of udev scripts, a windows service, that sort of thing? |
| 21:16:17 | archivator | Could be, I'm just brainstorming at this point. A windows service is a clumsy thing, though. I doubt I can get it to be notified on device insertion (I think you need a window for that). Plus, it would mean maintaining 3 projects instead of one cross-platform one (Qt-based, for example). |
| 21:16:45 | bluebrother | archivator: I'm not too fond of such an idea. |
| 21:17:43 | bluebrother | you can already install Rockbox Utility on the player. Why not include a new "cleanup" task group that can do such stuff? |
| 21:18:29 | | Join Sergio [0] (~fake@h49-net159.svil.netcampus.ca) |
| 21:18:33 | bluebrother | also, adding command line parameters to Rockbox Utility is something that's on my todo list since ages. Unfortunately the current design makes such a thing rather hard to implement (one of the issues I hope to address when reworking the UI) |
| 21:19:10 | archivator | bluebrother: RockboxUtility is not exactly small. Plus, it would need a way to do things on startup (which it lacks). Also, I'm not sure how it handles being on the player but will changing mount points affect it? |
| 21:19:47 | | Quit freddyb (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:19:52 | bluebrother | archivator: yes, but I'm planning to change this (i.e. check if we have a portable installation and if yes automatically adjust the mountpoint) |
| 21:20:02 | bluebrother | it seems portable installation is rarely used, though. |
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| 21:20:51 | bluebrother | the problem with the size of Rockbox Utility is Qt −− linking it statically simply makes it big. So I don't think it's possible to create such a maintainance utility with less than 1MB if it's Qt based. |
| 21:21:22 | bluebrother | however, the ~4MB it has on Windows is acceptable IMO |
| 21:21:45 | | Nick needhelp is now known as adnyxo (~aaron@adsl-065-013-002-216.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:22:07 | archivator | bluebrother: in any case, a new utility would be far smaller than Rockbox Utility (which, imho, contains far too many things to be considered adequate for the task). Plus, you can use UPX on Windows. |
| 21:22:48 | | Quit Sergio (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:23:06 | bluebrother | we already upx Rockbox Utility ;-) |
| 21:24:32 | bluebrother | but what about maintainance for such a new utility? Given how many people actually work on Rockbox Utiltiy I don't think there will be a lot of people working on such a tool either. |
| 21:26:05 | archivator | Well, there won't be much to maintain. It would only need to reflect changes in download locations and database structure. |
| 21:27:20 | archivator | Both seem pretty stable and can be made incredibly easy to change (actually, the database bit can be taken from core rockbox - similar to how the database utility works) |
| 21:27:53 | bluebrother | hmm. Well, feel free to work on such a thing. I'm not really convinced though. |
| 21:29:49 | | Part watto |
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| 21:32:53 | | Join Sergio [0] (~fake@nat027.dc-uoit.net) |
| 21:37:43 | CIA-5 | New commit by bertrik (r25500): Make array static const in apps/recorder/jpeg_load.c |
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| 21:42:07 | | Quit kugel (Disconnected by services) |
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| 21:45:46 | bluebrother | domonoky: any thoughts on a new rbutil release? I think we have a nice bunch of fixes now. |
| 21:45:59 | archivator | domonoky: I uploaded a new version of FS #11160 |
| 21:46:08 | bluebrother | unfortunately there was less response on my call for translators than I hoped :/ |
| 21:48:49 | domonoky | bluebrother: no problem with a new release. should we commit this tts/encoder paralellising now, or after the release ? :-) |
| 21:49:35 | bluebrother | IMO doing it after a release would be better −− it gives us more time to try and fix possible issues :) |
| 21:50:29 | domonoky | hm, noone uses svn builds but developers, so putting it into the release will probably give faster reports of broken things :-) |
| 21:50:47 | archivator | I think it should be left for after release if only so we can get the other engines parallelized as well. |
| 21:50:50 | * | bluebrother hopes for moos to look after the french translation soon |
| 21:51:13 | bluebrother | domonoky: well, I do provide svn binaries for non-developers. |
| 21:51:43 | bluebrother | maybe I should implement something to count downloads of those files. Too bad I don't have access to the server logs |
| 21:52:35 | domonoky | :-) |
| 21:53:05 | pixelma | in case it needs testing on MacOS 10.4... |
| 21:53:39 | domonoky | pixelma: not currently, TTSCarbon isnt currently paralelizied. |
| 21:54:16 | domonoky | but general rbutil testing on Mac 10.4 before release would be surely good :-) |
| 21:54:58 | archivator | SAPI would be tricky, though. I can't think of a way to parallelize it without serializing access to the script's stdin (which would effectively serialize the entire process, more or less) |
| 21:56:08 | pixelma | well, I helped testing the voice fixes and remember having installed a theme to test back then and a build (I believe). I did not try a bootloader install though - neither separately nor wirh a "complete installation" |
| 21:56:27 | pixelma | or with |
| 21:58:01 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 21:58:34 | pixelma | the theme was a 160x128 grey one for my M5 which reminds me of a specific feature request/bug report for RbUtil and another idea we discussed a while ago |
| 21:59:29 | * | bluebrother just pushed the weblinguist code to github, in case someone is interested. It isn't really nice code right now, though. |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:36 | pixelma | hmmno - the feature request/bug report would actually be for the theme site |
| 22:00:51 | Eugenpaul | saratoga_lab: I'm about my dsp experience. So, this is what i can remember from lectures (and what i think is useful in project): modulation, discretization, quantization, multiplexing by everything, coding (includes and Huffman coding), masking. Is it still too abstract? |
| 22:01:19 | saratoga_lab | Eugenpaul: no thats a fine description |
| 22:02:15 | Eugenpaul | saratoga_lab: and should i know anything else? |
| 22:02:54 | saratoga_lab | well the application should be specific and convince us that you're qualified for the task |
| 22:02:57 | | Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 22:03:11 | | Join JohannesSM64 [0] (~johannes@cm-84.215.116.196.getinternet.no) |
| 22:03:15 | bertrik | Is there anything special I have to think of when committing a language patch? |
| 22:03:32 | saratoga_lab | maybe having secondary goals would be a good idea (working on aac decoding or some other codec) in case the mp3 stuff goes quickly |
| 22:03:35 | | Quit hebz0rl (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 22:04:42 | Eugenpaul | ok, thank you |
| 22:05:10 | pixelma | bertrik: a new language or an update? |
| 22:05:10 | | Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@149.254.182.243) |
| 22:05:21 | | Quit bmbl (Quit: Bye!) |
| 22:05:26 | bertrik | an update, from flyspray |
| 22:06:05 | | Nick shaggy-h is now known as chrism (~kiwi@78-86-164-31.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:07:23 | pixelma | a language which is spoken natively by a committer? Other than that... check if the translator is in CREDITS and also translators are usually mentioned in the lang file heade |
| 22:07:24 | pixelma | r |
| 22:10:49 | | Quit pamaury (Quit: Page closed) |
| 22:11:19 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 22:11:39 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
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| 22:20:49 | CIA-5 | New commit by bertrik (r25501): Slovak language update ... |
| 22:22:52 | archivator | domonoky: I'm starting to think the parallelization should be user-controlled. At least there should be an option to turn it off. I have reason to believe festival splits the work into two processes already and with things like multisyn voices we might be slowing down the process rather than speeding it up. |
| 22:23:29 | archivator | that* |
| 22:25:52 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 22:27:03 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:29:04 | | Join notlistening [0] (~tom@94-195-105-95.zone9.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:29:26 | | Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg) |
| 22:29:29 | notlistening | Hi just tried the latest build on the clip+ oh dear ;) |
| 22:31:36 | FlynDice | notlistening: Is that a "This is all screwed up" oh dear or a "this is fantastic" oh dear? |
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| 22:35:43 | notlistening | it's a wow this is screwed up oh dear and now it is a can not get it to screw up again oh dear just trying to reproduce the problem |
| 22:36:20 | notlistening | the inability to write to disk is a bummer |
| 22:37:18 | | Join bieber [0] (~bieber@132.170.135.186) |
| 22:38:03 | bieber | Are Summer of Code applications publicly visible as they're submitted, or do they just get shown after decisions are made? |
| 22:38:49 | gevaerts | The abstracts for ones that are selected will be shown after the decisions |
| 22:41:38 | saratoga_lab | I'm thinking about the show settings and the "show music" option specifically |
| 22:41:52 | saratoga_lab | perhaps it would make sense to change it to "show media" so that mpg files are included as well |
| 22:42:29 | saratoga_lab | it seems like more people would rather see both then see just one, and it can be quite confusing to new users |
| 22:42:30 | | Quit scorche (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:43:12 | saratoga_lab | at least my understanding is that the option is mostly to keep you from seeing playlist files and album art, so it seems like seeing mpg files would be useful as well |
| 22:43:28 | gevaerts | that makes sense I guess |
| 22:43:39 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 22:44:16 | notlistening | makes sense to me to |
| 22:44:22 | saratoga_lab | the use case that would be impacted negatively by this would be people who have mpg files mixed in with their music and do not want to see the mpg files |
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| 22:45:29 | Llorean | I'd say that "Show Media" shouldn't be an option until we have videos in the playlist system, and then it should be an additional option rather than replacing "Show Music" |
| 22:45:50 | bieber | Perhaps "Show Music," "Show Videos," and "Show Media" settings would be best? |
| 22:45:50 | bieber | With the third being the union of the first two, of course |
| 22:46:00 | Llorean | I can't imagine why "Show Music" is confusing to new users, though |
| 22:46:08 | Llorean | It's a quite explicit name, and it's not the default. |
| 22:46:35 | saratoga_lab | people seem to ask about it |
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| 22:46:42 | gevaerts | Media might actually be confusing. Does that include images? Text? |
| 22:46:44 | saratoga_lab | i think that option tends to get toggled without people thinking about it |
| 22:46:51 | Llorean | saratoga_lab: People have honestly asked "I've set it to show music and can't find my videos?" |
| 22:46:56 | saratoga_lab | yes |
| 22:46:59 | saratoga_lab | in the forums just now |
| 22:47:11 | Llorean | He knew he'd set it to show music? |
| 22:47:14 | saratoga_lab | no |
| 22:47:18 | Llorean | Or it was set to show music without him knowing (something we can never solve) |
| 22:47:26 | saratoga_lab | well if he did he didn't mention it, but he set it to music at some point |
| 22:47:35 | Llorean | That's my point - as long as there's *any* setting that can hide their music (such as "Show Playlists") then it can't be solved. |
| 22:47:36 | saratoga_lab | presumably because he didn't realize that would exclude video |
| 22:47:51 | BdN3504 | if i restore an ipod on a pc using the "software version 1.3" for apple ipod gen 5, will i be able to rockbox it? or do i need to manually choose a different version of the apple software? |
| 22:48:02 | Llorean | saratoga_lab: I'd bet he accidentally set it due to the quickscreen's bad controls |
| 22:48:10 | Llorean | It's hard to leave the quickscreen without changing the "show files" option |
| 22:48:14 | saratoga_lab | hmm well that should be fixed then |
| 22:48:22 | saratoga_lab | maybe the show files option should be a little harder to find |
| 22:48:26 | Llorean | It's not the setting that's the problem, but the fact that you can set that setting without even knowing it. |
| 22:48:27 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:48:35 | | Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@149.254.182.243) |
| 22:48:38 | * | Llorean has said "show files" shouldn't be on the quickscreen for a while. |
| 22:48:51 | saratoga_lab | i still think its odd that show music doesn't show mpg files, which are quite off music videos and such |
| 22:49:04 | Llorean | But anything on the vertical axis on the quickscreen is going to trigger accidental changes. You hold "Menu" on iPods to get there, but can't tap "Menu" to leave it (like you can many other things) |
| 22:49:11 | saratoga_lab | i do agree with it not being on the quickscreen FWIW |
| 22:49:24 | bluebrother | BdN3504: I'm not aware of any specific version required when restoring an Ipod with Itunes. |
| 22:49:24 | Llorean | saratoga_lab: Change "Show Music" to "Audio Files" |
| 22:49:55 | BdN3504 | bluebrother: i am more concerned about rb compatibility |
| 22:50:00 | notlistening | bluebrother did you manage with the wine detection bit for rbutil? |
| 22:50:02 | saratoga_lab | it still seems more natural to me to group video and audio together since mpg contains audio |
| 22:50:20 | Llorean | Games contain audio too... |
| 22:50:26 | bluebrother | one thing I really *hate* about the 4th option on the quickscreen: you can't leave the Quickscreen with the same button you entered it (something that worked before, and it's *really* annoying on an ipod) |
| 22:50:37 | Llorean | bluebrother: I just mentioned that. :) |
| 22:50:57 | Llorean | saratoga_lab: There should definitely just be a setting for "formats that can be played while in the WPS" whatever it's called. |
| 22:51:16 | Llorean | Or "formats that can be playlisted" |
| 22:51:26 | bluebrother | Llorean: ok, I'm obviously too slow then :) |
| 22:51:29 | saratoga_lab | well i think in the long term those limitations on video are kind of annoying and should be removed |
| 22:51:40 | saratoga_lab | so i don't really see that as an argument for the setting now |
| 22:51:59 | bluebrother | IMO we should really consider dropping the quickscreen completely and replace it with a user customizable menu (now the Quickscreen is customizable) |
| 22:52:00 | | Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 22:52:05 | Llorean | saratoga_lab: Until this limitations are removed, though, the setting can clean up a directory view for people only wanting to see things they can insert in their playlist. |
| 22:52:07 | | Quit Sergio (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:52:22 | Llorean | It'd be silly to make a mess of things now on the *hope* a feature will exist in the future that we've been saying should exist for years now. |
| 22:52:32 | bluebrother | notlistening: yes, see r25471 |
| 22:52:52 | saratoga_lab | bluebrother: i also like that idea |
| 22:52:58 | Llorean | bluebrother: Personally, I think the quickscreen should show the "load .cfg file" screen, in which the user can have as many .cfgs of their favorite settings and combinations of settings as they like |
| 22:53:01 | bluebrother | i.e. just replace the quickscreen with a list a user can put any option in he likes. |
| 22:53:08 | Llorean | No complication creating custom menus (or a UI to create them) but all the power of it, and more. |
| 22:53:21 | bluebrother | like "my menu" various devices have these days |
| 22:53:33 | saratoga_lab | i don't know about cfg files, but i do dislike hwo the current quick screen works |
| 22:53:41 | saratoga_lab | i tend to get into it by accident and then change settings trying to get out of it |
| 22:53:48 | bluebrother | Llorean: well, IMO a simple list should be rather straight forward |
| 22:53:50 | saratoga_lab | its just ackward, at least on the players i've used |
| 22:54:00 | bluebrother | the quickscreen was nice. Until it got changed |
| 22:54:11 | Llorean | bluebrother: I just think .cfg files would actually be quicker to change (more like the current quickscreen) |
| 22:54:39 | Llorean | But since the quickscreen is not likely to ever support the old Archos Rockbox quickscreen functionality, I'd say it should be dumped for some sort of list-based menu now. |
| 22:54:56 | bluebrother | Llorean: probably, but it requires more work to set it up (and that might be quite problematic for average users) |
| 22:55:43 | Llorean | bluebrother: Add to the context menu of each setting "add current value to .cfg" like inserting things into the playlists in playlist catalog? |
| 22:55:46 | bluebrother | yep, that's my point. If we get the old way back (didn't that work on h100 at some point?) there's no much point in keeping it as such a special case it is |
| 22:56:00 | Llorean | But a single customizable menu in place of the quickscreen also isn't bad. |
| 22:56:18 | Llorean | I'm pretty sure the H100 is the reason it stopped working - button combinations necessary for it to work weren't available. |
| 22:56:42 | Llorean | It was some reason like that, for some player at or shortly after. |
| 22:56:50 | bluebrother | Llorean: that of course makes it easier. However, you still have to enter a filename which seems awkward for creating a customizable menu. |
| 22:57:25 | bluebrother | iirc Mode + Joystick can get recognized on h100. Unless my memory serves me wrong. |
| 22:58:05 | bluebrother | from my understanding the reason is that it broke at some time, and few developers knew (and know) how that feature was intended to work in the first place |
| 22:58:14 | pixelma | wasn't it Play which you could use with other buttons on the H100ß |
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| 22:58:48 | | Quit Eugenpaul (Quit: Eugenpaul) |
| 22:58:51 | bluebrother | hmm. Probably play, yes. |
| 22:58:55 | pixelma | there are no (usable) button combos on the Iaudios though |
| 22:59:54 | bluebrother | speaking of buttons: why does the jpegviewer plugin not invoke the menu on long Select on Ipods? Pressing a combo is awkward when plain Select does nothing |
| 22:59:57 | BdN3504 | Rockbox works fine, if an ipod 5.5g gets restored to the apple ipod software version 1.3 |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:39 | bluebrother | BdN3504: there is no dependency between Rockbox and the apple firmware version. If the bootloader runs Rockbox will run. |
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| 23:03:33 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:49:35 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25502): Bookmark.c cleanup, still no functional changes... yet |
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