| 00:00:24 | Torne | linuxstb: it uses the same code as the main build, so 1g/2g it works for firewire which is all they have, and 3g it only works for firewire even though it has usb. |
| 00:00:52 | Torne | enough of the usb driver is compiled into the bootloader already that this is just a tiny patch to bootloader/ipod.c |
| 00:00:55 | Watermark | @linuxstb, is there anything else you can think of that might fix my S9? if not then i am going to look into may be just buying the COWON J3 |
| 00:01:08 | | Join rhodan [0] (~quassel@2001:1608:12:2::38) |
| 00:01:15 | rhodan | I added two albums. |
| 00:01:27 | rhodan | Now Rockbox is updating the collection. |
| 00:01:31 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25642): s3c2440: fix a typo, 4|1 == 5, not 0x41 |
| 00:01:39 | rhodan | Five minutes now. |
| 00:03:20 | Torne | linuxstb: i'm not actually going to release new bootloaders just yet, i have at least one more pending change to go into it (sector size workaround) |
| 00:03:32 | linuxstb | Watermark: Nope, sorry. I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of someone figuring out the SDCFG value though. |
| 00:03:34 | Torne | linuxstb: but i will at some point soon, to pick up the various bootloader stuff i have changed :) |
| 00:03:58 | linuxstb | Yes, it's been years since an ipod bootloader release hasn't it? |
| 00:04:03 | Watermark | alright, i'll see about getting that. i will report back |
| 00:04:22 | | Quit toffe82 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:05:48 | Torne | linuxstb: yah, but not a lot has changed |
| 00:06:08 | Torne | linuxstb: my OSOS boot stuff, the addition of large drive support (which i've only half done), and this, are the three things I've changed.. :) |
| 00:06:45 | Torne | there was a discussion earlier about the fact that the default contrast for the 3G has been changed, which affects the bootloader |
| 00:06:57 | Torne | and may make bootloader errors completely invisible on some people's screens ;( |
| 00:07:21 | | Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 00:08:12 | Torne | is there a good reason why we avoid including button.h in the bootloader and instead define arbitrary values for BUTTON_LEFT et al? |
| 00:08:18 | Torne | because that causes a conflict when you #include usb.h |
| 00:08:21 | linuxstb | Doesn't sound desirable - our 3G users will both be upset... |
| 00:08:45 | Torne | i just nuked the definitions in the bootloader and everything appears to still work, they get defined as different arbitary values but it's still *consistent* :) |
| 00:09:06 | Torne | the alternative would be to fix usb.h i guess |
| 00:09:28 | Torne | linuxstb: wel it was a 3g user that asked to ahve the contrast changed int he first place because the previous default made everything almost unreadably *dark* |
| 00:09:50 | Torne | but jhMikeS found that the new default makes his screen so light it's literally blank ;) |
| 00:09:56 | gevaerts | linuxstb: not *both* of them. One of them wanted this change! |
| 00:09:59 | | Quit halmi (Quit: halmi) |
| 00:10:02 | Torne | which confused him a bit when the bootloader error was invisible |
| 00:10:29 | Torne | the default in firmware is used in the bootloader but is also the default for the main build, so.. yeah. i dunno. ;) |
| 00:10:41 | Torne | i'm hoping someone with a b/w ipod will come up with a better idea |
| 00:11:38 | | Join M3DLG [0] (~M3DLG@bb-87-81-252-83.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 00:15:46 | pixelma | gevaerts: the other two! I know of at least three 3G Ipod owners |
| 00:16:13 | gevaerts | Wow, it's more popular than the Ondio! ;) |
| 00:17:45 | CIA-5 | New commit by torne (r25643): FS #11199: ipod bootloader: reboot to disk mode on cable insert, following a fatal error ... |
| 00:18:39 | pixelma | gevaerts: I know of more than three Ondio owners |
| 00:24:33 | | Quit ender` (Quit: If you have a few hundred followers, and you let some of them molest children, they call you a cult leader. If you have a billion, they call you Pope. — Bill Maher) |
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| 00:31:37 | wodz | HD200 OF reads adc in ISR :-) |
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| 00:55:03 | ssorgatem | funman: left button OF boot doesn't work |
| 00:58:02 | funman | ok |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:23 | ssorgatem | oh well, it's pretty late now |
| 01:00:32 | ssorgatem | i'm going to sleep |
| 01:00:50 | funman | 'night |
| 01:01:12 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:01:13 | ssorgatem | 'night ! |
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| 01:18:22 | * | flyback is sorry for past drama in channel he didn't even think about when he vented his frustration with life and used a global message |
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| 01:58:40 | kisak | hello, I noticed a wiki formatting discrepancy |
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| 01:59:28 | saratoga | stripwax: (for the logs) any movement on the Tremor patch? |
| 01:59:47 | kisak | oh oops ... sorry worng project |
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| 02:39:31 | kugel | I almost finished porting pth |
| 02:39:49 | saratoga | i missed the earlier talk, what does pth bring? |
| 02:40:41 | kugel | it's a cooperative threading library |
| 02:40:56 | * | flyback bbl |
| 02:40:59 | kugel | and it supports priority |
| 02:41:08 | saratoga | don't we already have that? |
| 02:41:25 | kugel | that's two advantages over the current sdl thread hack. it's also supposedly more portable than sdl |
| 02:41:59 | kugel | sdl uses the underlying system for threads (i.e. preemptive on modern OSes), however it can be configured to link against pth |
| 02:42:12 | saratoga | ah ok |
| 02:42:59 | kugel | pth implements a user space library (the kernel sees only the main process with a single thread), which is actually a disadvantage |
| 02:43:12 | kugel | we will see if it brings us anything, I only know it's my assessment task :p |
| 02:45:24 | kugel | the disadvantage is also the reason it's so portable (plus that it's written in ansi c), that might be handy when it comes to porting to android where you need java for OS calls |
| 02:46:18 | | Part flyback ("Leaving") |
| 02:46:27 | kugel | but android implements a subset of pthread so it might not be that handy, depending on how make-rockbox-run-under-preemptive-thread turns out |
| 02:47:21 | saratoga | is there an advantage to using preemptive threads on a device like android? |
| 02:49:11 | kugel | being independent on the underlying thread would be an advantage on it's own, I can't say yet if preemptive threads would really be a win in general |
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| 02:50:17 | kugel | our concept if one big main thread, and a few small background ones fits very well to cooperative threads. but I can also imagine that we only have this concept because we only ever had cooperative threads |
| 02:52:54 | funman | if the threads don't need to be real time then they don't need to be prempted |
| 02:54:39 | | Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:54:51 | funman | btw there is a patch on flyspray (from jhmikes?) which shows how much time each thread has been running |
| 03:00 |
| 03:01:35 | * | jhMikeS comes by and sees thread talk |
| 03:01:46 | jhMikeS | funman: no, the patch isn't mine |
| 03:02:38 | funman | FS #11176 (from mcuelenaere) |
| 03:03:44 | jhMikeS | kugel: I've thought about preemtive threads, being explicitely created to be such. They would have some real advantage for realtime tasks in thread context, low-latency audio, and perhaps certain system tasks that should run. It need not be global. |
| 03:05:17 | | Join anewuser [0] (anewuser@unaffiliated/anewuser) |
| 03:06:15 | funman | doesn't audio/pcm 'thread' run from isr already ? |
| 03:07:08 | jhMikeS | funman: I wouldn't call it a thread. It's not a scheduler entity, thus cannot really use the functions. |
| 03:07:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:07:58 | funman | right, i mean there's no latency since it interrupts the other threads to send data down to the headphones |
| 03:08:50 | jhMikeS | funman: but, doing low-latency mixing in a thread would allow the ISR to interrupt it and use of kernal object. doing alot of heavy work in the ISR is not possible, due to limited IIS queue and blocking out everything else. |
| 03:09:18 | | Join Strife89 [0] (~michael@adsl-154-2-45.mcn.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:10:10 | jhMikeS | all in all, it would be no worse than coprocessor threads, which is as normal as it gets, and would have certain limited access |
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| 03:40:38 | stasis | hello all |
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| 04:00 |
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| 06:23:11 | | Join Tetracomm [0] (~nicholas@unaffiliated/tetracomm) |
| 06:23:14 | Tetracomm | Hello. |
| 06:23:35 | Tetracomm | Any progress with understanding Creative MP3 players? |
| 06:23:57 | saratoga | no one has worked on them in a couple years |
| 06:24:15 | Tetracomm | :( |
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| 06:42:33 | kramer3d | where can i see recent rockbox commits? |
| 06:47:44 | saratoga | kramer3d: theres a list on the front page |
| 06:48:15 | kramer3d | thanks |
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| 07:05:06 | FingerS | So is the port to Fuse V2 moving along pretty well now? |
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| 07:07:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 07:07:35 | Watermark | @linuxstb you still on? |
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| 07:09:15 | Watermark | nvm |
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| 08:22:50 | kifo | hello |
| 08:23:15 | kifo | I was hunting around for builds of the clip+ but they seem to have vanished off of the face of the earth |
| 08:23:24 | kifo | started earlier today, about 12 hours ago |
| 08:23:35 | kifo | any insight on that? |
| 08:24:04 | kifo | sansa clip+ by the way |
| 08:24:40 | wnmnkh | ah |
| 08:24:46 | wnmnkh | you mean the files on site? |
| 08:24:57 | wnmnkh | or on the actual player? |
| 08:25:00 | | Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 08:25:01 | kifo | on the site |
| 08:25:10 | kifo | its usually on the build page |
| 08:25:18 | kifo | http://build.rockbox.org |
| 08:25:19 | kifo | where i am |
| 08:25:25 | kifo | its not there or in the daily builds |
| 08:25:26 | wnmnkh | Yes |
| 08:25:28 | wnmnkh | it's gone |
| 08:25:33 | kifo | whats up with that |
| 08:25:43 | wnmnkh | because it was demoted to "Unusuable" from "Unstable" |
| 08:25:58 | kifo | oh wow |
| 08:26:04 | wnmnkh | with too much errors and lacking features |
| 08:26:13 | kifo | cant say i disagree with the move |
| 08:26:15 | wnmnkh | I mean, come on, it needs more work |
| 08:26:32 | kifo | the last 20 or so revs have all crashed on playback for me |
| 08:26:56 | wnmnkh | Yes |
| 08:27:16 | wnmnkh | my Clip+ also crashes like every 15 min, so it is not a strange decision. |
| 08:27:36 | kifo | its not a total loss, theres not too much thats horrible about the interface thats on there already |
| 08:27:57 | kifo | especially compared to how much work woulda had to be done just to get basic things working |
| 08:28:00 | kifo | or atleast how much i would assume |
| 08:28:07 | wnmnkh | At least |
| 08:28:16 | wnmnkh | my Clip v1 works quite well |
| 08:28:23 | kifo | im not really a uhm |
| 08:28:34 | kifo | developer or programmer or anything |
| 08:28:38 | kifo | so couldnt say for sure |
| 08:28:43 | kifo | i just like tinkerin with stuff |
| 08:28:49 | wnmnkh | Well |
| 08:28:50 | kifo | sansa players in general are really nice |
| 08:29:16 | kifo | i was excited enough about it actually being on the clip+ i was willing to risk bricking it to test it out |
| 08:29:22 | kifo | i still would be |
| 08:29:29 | wnmnkh | well, I got Clip+ as gift... |
| 08:29:35 | kifo | heh |
| 08:29:37 | wnmnkh | and I already have Clip v1.... |
| 08:29:51 | kifo | i give them as gifts to my nephews and such |
| 08:29:55 | kifo | only 2gb ones though |
| 08:30:11 | wnmnkh | thing is, as far as I understand, we really do not fully understand hardware enough to make stable firmware yet |
| 08:30:30 | wnmnkh | I usually buy Cowon players for gifts... |
| 08:30:35 | kifo | im surprised sansa isnt working with it |
| 08:30:40 | kifo | or at least giving some info or something |
| 08:30:57 | kifo | probably not in their best interest |
| 08:31:05 | wnmnkh | There are some legal concerns |
| 08:31:24 | wnmnkh | for 3rd party firmware on players. |
| 08:31:36 | kifo | well i mean with them uhm |
| 08:31:46 | kifo | they seem to be pretty good about the no lock-out thing |
| 08:31:53 | kifo | i would think that they would take it from the start |
| 08:31:56 | kifo | as in not develop their own |
| 08:32:04 | kifo | itd be a huge step but |
| 08:32:21 | kifo | with even just basic info it seems making a functional rockbox firmware for it |
| 08:32:26 | kifo | insstead of them developing their own |
| 08:32:30 | kifo | be a lot more cost effective |
| 08:33:00 | kifo | that probably has legal implications also |
| 08:33:05 | kifo | concerns* |
| 08:33:17 | wnmnkh | They have to pay royalities for certain codecs |
| 08:33:19 | wnmnkh | such as |
| 08:33:33 | wnmnkh | AAC, WMA, etc |
| 08:34:03 | wnmnkh | that may makes the player more expensive |
| 08:34:24 | kifo | if people learned how to change the most basic settings in their media player WMA would fall off of the face of the earth |
| 08:34:46 | wnmnkh | it already has fall off |
| 08:35:01 | wnmnkh | how many stores actually use WMA as main format? |
| 08:35:03 | wnmnkh | zero |
| 08:35:03 | kifo | heh itd be nice if you could reject the license like you can with a laptop OEM install |
| 08:35:11 | kifo | yea but |
| 08:35:14 | wnmnkh | even Zune store has changed into mp3 a while ago. |
| 08:35:15 | kifo | people rip to wma all the time |
| 08:35:20 | wnmnkh | oh |
| 08:35:27 | kifo | theyre somewhat on public trackers |
| 08:35:32 | kifo | torrent trackers |
| 08:35:41 | kifo | just because people dont know how or cant be bothered to change it |
| 08:36:23 | wnmnkh | Well |
| 08:36:43 | wnmnkh | Actually WMP does not give you much options in the first place.... |
| 08:37:20 | kifo | terrible player |
| 08:37:25 | | Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 08:37:25 | kifo | but what can you do |
| 08:37:28 | wnmnkh | thing is MP3 encoder on WMP is total trash compared to LAME, so basically all you have is WMA and Wave file. |
| 08:37:29 | kifo | ends up being like IE |
| 08:37:34 | wnmnkh | lol |
| 08:37:37 | kifo | has a userbase because its already :there: |
| 08:38:00 | kifo | yea the clip+ can play my huge library of protected wma files |
| 08:38:08 | kifo | thank god i was worried |
| 08:38:36 | kifo | actually i dont think ive ever seen a protected wma |
| 08:39:04 | wnmnkh | where did you get protected wma files? |
| 08:39:11 | kifo | being sarcastic lol |
| 08:39:28 | wnmnkh | I mean I believe Microsoft stop selling music as in WMA |
| 08:39:41 | wnmnkh | except 'rental' ones. |
| 08:39:49 | kifo | i have the large majority of my music in flac for archiving and v0 for listening |
| 08:40:15 | wnmnkh | speaking of FLAC |
| 08:40:20 | kifo | just because it makes it easier to uhm |
| 08:40:22 | kifo | script |
| 08:40:28 | wnmnkh | go www.hdtracks.com |
| 08:40:39 | kifo | ive bought from them before |
| 08:40:43 | wnmnkh | very nice flac selections with rather reasonable price |
| 08:40:45 | wnmnkh | yes |
| 08:40:47 | kifo | only to fill a request on a private though |
| 08:40:56 | kifo | but yea very high quality release |
| 08:41:02 | kifo | not only are the tracks perfect |
| 08:41:06 | kifo | huge resolution album art |
| 08:41:10 | kifo | everything |
| 08:41:28 | wnmnkh | and there is www.linnrecord.com |
| 08:41:41 | wnmnkh | very nice classicial catalogs |
| 08:41:49 | wnmnkh | in flac |
| 08:41:56 | kifo | i mainly use torrents now, i buy some stuff if i like it but never in flac |
| 08:41:59 | kifo | just sorta uhm |
| 08:42:01 | kifo | symbolic |
| 08:42:16 | | Join mitk [0] (~mitk@195.117.162.130) |
| 08:42:22 | kifo | kinda messed up to get music you like for free and just be like i dunno |
| 08:42:26 | kifo | hit and run on it |
| 08:42:30 | kifo | if it sucks, then yea |
| 08:43:11 | kifo | ive always thought that artists/labels/whoever should have donation programs set up |
| 08:43:14 | kifo | at least the artists |
| 08:43:19 | | Join arbingordon [0] (~w@unaffiliated/arbingordon) |
| 08:43:26 | * | linuxstb points out this is #rockbox... |
| 08:43:42 | kifo | lol oh yea! sorry. |
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| 08:43:54 | kifo | I have about 40 thousand irssi windows open right now |
| 08:44:00 | kifo | im gonna go to sleep class in 5 hours |
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| 09:24:11 | JdGordon | gevaerts: hey, did you try out that patch? |
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| 10:12:38 | gevaerts | JdGordon: oops, sorry. I forgot all about it |
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| 11:00 |
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| 11:08:16 | jnss | pardon for asking, is there an easy method of making the device work again when in recovery mode |
| 11:18:16 | gevaerts | "the device"? |
| 11:19:01 | wodz | moving ADC readings to ISR works but only when unboosted :-/ |
| 11:23:16 | wodz | hmm: values are pushed to the global variable so this must be the problem with debouncing algorithm |
| 11:25:18 | kugel | I think I finished my assessment task |
| 11:37:23 | | Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 11:39:28 | kugel | http://repo.or.cz/w/kugel-rb.git/shortlog/refs/heads/gnu-pth-sim |
| 11:42:39 | JdGordon | kugel: you still have the stock linux install on the mini2440 yeah? |
| 11:43:17 | kugel | no |
| 11:44:01 | JdGordon | oh? which? |
| 11:44:10 | kugel | emdebian |
| 11:46:28 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 11:46:48 | kugel | JdGordon: I can upload a dd'd image tomorrow if you want |
| 11:47:11 | JdGordon | more intereted in which instructions you followed and what you have installed? |
| 11:50:07 | kugel | http://code.google.com/p/mini2440/wiki/Emdebian mostly |
| 11:50:47 | kugel | except I used a single ext3 partition and jtag to flash uboot instead of tftp |
| 11:51:10 | JdGordon | ok, so the same i followed (except I have mine booting from sd) |
| 11:52:57 | | Quit phanboy4 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 11:53:42 | kugel | I used the uboot of http://mini2440.spaceopera.org/site/developmentenviroment/stepbystep/index.html, since the one from their git doesn't build with gcc-4.4. I also boot off the sd, only uboot is on the flash |
| 11:55:45 | Torne | kugel: i've found int he past that parts of u-boot are broken on various gcc versions, as a warning; it's generally best to go with whatever the consensus is of a compiler to use :) |
| 11:55:59 | Torne | kugel: where by broken i mean "builds and then functions wrong" |
| 11:56:20 | Torne | e.g. u-boot built with gcc 4.x for Lubbock can't write to the flash, at all, but built with 3.x it can |
| 11:56:24 | kugel | the prebuild one there works fine so far :) |
| 11:56:49 | kugel | looking at the uboot source is a nightmare also |
| 11:57:55 | | Quit Lynx_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 11:58:43 | Torne | yes, u-boot is terrifying |
| 11:58:50 | Torne | using someone else's binary is basically the winning path |
| 11:59:27 | kugel | ;) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:03:03 | Torne | or relying on openembedded to build it for you, if that doesn't work. |
| 12:03:20 | Torne | OE's build recipies are pretty reliable |
| 12:05:41 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (~Lynx@86.51.114.197) |
| 12:12:37 | kugel | gevaerts and gsoc experts: how do I proceed with my assessment task? I think I'm finished (although the build system integration is still a bit of a hack) |
| 12:13:56 | | Join anewuser [0] (anewuser@unaffiliated/anewuser) |
| 12:14:14 | gevaerts | kugel: as soon as you think it's ok, post a comment on the webapp with information on where to find it. Since you seem to have some time left, maybe build system integration would be a good idea to work on though :) |
| 12:14:30 | gevaerts | kugel: also don't forget to post a comment about available times |
| 12:16:02 | CIA-5 | New commit by uchida (r25644): new text viewer |
| 12:16:53 | jnss | can i get rockbox onto the device when it is in recovery mode? |
| 12:17:31 | kugel | great commit message.... |
| 12:17:52 | gevaerts | jnss: that question is missing some quite essential information |
| 12:18:02 | | Join M3DLG [0] (~M3DLG@212.183.140.50) |
| 12:18:17 | jnss | gevaerts, i have messed up partition tables on e260, |
| 12:18:18 | kugel | gevaerts: sounds good, thanks |
| 12:18:29 | kugel | I might also try to keep the sdl threads working :) |
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| 12:19:12 | | Quit Ipsilon (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 12:19:54 | gevaerts | kugel: that's probably pretty important if you want to commit this (which I'd assume is the goal), since we have to evaluate if it's actually a win first, and since you don't have priorities yet |
| 12:20:52 | kugel | until now I mostly wanted to finish what I have been asked for :) |
| 12:21:19 | gevaerts | jnss: you'll first have to use the standard recovery procedures. See http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaE200Unbrick . Don't be creative though, and if you don't understand some things ask first. |
| 12:21:26 | kugel | an assessment task is usually not something that aims for being commited, is it? |
| 12:22:02 | gevaerts | kugel: well, yes and no. If it's something useful, I see no point in throwing it away and doing the same work again later on |
| 12:22:16 | kugel | sure |
| 12:22:32 | gevaerts | So I think it would be a pity to let this rot in some git tree and come back to it in a year to find that it's hard to merge |
| 12:23:49 | gevaerts | And the more you do, the more you impress the people who have to decide ;) |
| 12:27:19 | kugel | gevaerts: are you saying my assessment task isn't considered completed until I implement priorty? |
| 12:27:41 | jnss | it worked! restoring the bootloader fixed it, thanks gevaerts ;) |
| 12:27:58 | | Join Luca_S [0] (~5d3fc54b@giant.haxx.se) |
| 12:29:25 | gevaerts | kugel: no. I'd say that priority is probably needed before we throw out the SDL threads, which means that it should be possible to pick which to use at compile time before it goes into svn. I think neither of those is essential for the purposes of GSoC qualification though |
| 12:29:29 | jnss | i tried all methods on that list *except* restoring the bootloader. |
| 12:30:31 | kugel | gevaerts: ok, thanks |
| 12:30:48 | gevaerts | kugel: I do think that it's probably a good idea to add the needed #ifdefs and things soon, while you still know what everything does |
| 12:30:58 | gevaerts | that's up to you though |
| 12:31:44 | gevaerts | kugel: oh, and the #define SDL_THREAD_* should probably be renamed in the pth thread source :) |
| 12:32:53 | kugel | gevaerts: of course. right now I'm at the point where I have a working thread implementation using gnu pth which is why I said I mostly finished the task (which asked me to port gnu pth without details). a bit of working needs to be done still to be actually ready to commit |
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| 12:41:07 | tomers | Thanks god for uchida for splitting the horrific viewer.c file into several files, but the log message is very confuzing. Actually it is not true - this is not a *new* text viewer, rather it is a re-arrangement of existing one. Uchida should mention if he added any new functionality (I guess not) |
| 12:41:51 | * | tomers wish uchida would be on IRC |
| 12:48:07 | kugel | tomers: I recomment you reading the -dev ml :) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:24 | pixelma | I agree with tomers wish regardless |
| 13:02:12 | kugel | so I do, see above |
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| 13:13:54 | | Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 13:17:04 | pixelma | btw. tomers: I played brickmania a bit yesterday on my Ondio (so, very small screen) and it somehow felt less precise. When the ball was hitting the paddle it sometimes vanished halfway, sometimes not (actually more visible when it had to stick to it) - the ball is only 2x2 on that screen. In the beginning I also had an invisible paddle once (until ball was lost) and one time a only half-visible paddle (diagonal). I also wondered if it was always |
| 13:17:04 | pixelma | the case that a new ball power-up let the new ball appear from the bottom center, it seemed odd to me and so I thought new balls would appear from where you caught the power-up (not sure though) |
| 13:18:15 | pixelma | hmm... "vanished halfway"... I mean it looked like you could only see the upper half with the lower "inside" the paddle |
| 13:19:32 | CIA-5 | New commit by uchida (r25645): rvert r25644 |
| 13:20:00 | tomers | pixelma: I will check on Ondio simulator, but I'm not sure I will be able to reproduce this. |
| 13:20:55 | | Quit anewuser (Quit: http://xrl.us/NitroQueer What do you know...THE WORLD'S first NTRQ (that's for NES/FAMICOM) tracking compo. Have powerpak? Try it out! Otherwise ROM IMAGE.) |
| 13:22:13 | | Join ucchan [0] (~ucchan@i121-113-174-118.s05.a014.ap.plala.or.jp) |
| 13:25:01 | ucchan | I delete all files committed by mistake. very very sorry. |
| 13:25:56 | gevaerts | ucchan: this happens to everyone once in a while. Don't worry too much about it |
| 13:26:00 | tomers | icchan: Relax, that's not a big deal :-) |
| 13:26:23 | | Quit mirsal (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 13:26:32 | tomers | pixelma: Regarding the ball powerup, I didn't touch that logic. I wondered about this myself |
| 13:26:57 | tomers | ucchan: That a good idea to split the viewer.c file |
| 13:27:29 | pixelma | tomers: ok... as I said, I wasn't sure |
| 13:27:51 | ucchan | Other files were not broken and it was really good. |
| 13:28:31 | ucchan | commited textviewer is old. then may not move. |
| 13:28:33 | tomers | ucchan: i think that tv_ prefix to filename is not needed, since all these files are under the text_viewer directory. |
| 13:28:57 | tomers | ucchan: Also I would s/textviewer/text_viewer/ |
| 13:29:40 | tomers | ucchan: yes, you must sync with viewer.c before splitting... |
| 13:29:41 | ucchan | tomers comments thanks. |
| 13:30:55 | ucchan | I try delete "tv_" and change textviewer -> text_viewer. |
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| 13:35:08 | ucchan | Because this has been almost completed, I think that I can send to the tracker perhaps on the weekend. |
| 13:36:37 | tomers | uchida: I suggest the when committing the split, try to avoind having changes to logic (do it separately). If you must change some logic, please write it explicitly in the FS tracker or in the commit message |
| 13:36:55 | | Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 13:38:53 | tomers | ucchan: Have a look at "FS #11201 - Viewer: Bookmarks data gets deleted" |
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| 13:47:18 | | Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 13:47:50 | ucchan | I try confirm about FS #11201 on my environment. |
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| 14:00 |
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| 14:19:00 | pixelma | tomers: the half vanishing ball has probably to do with r25372 - with a 2x2 ball, the result will be visibly different |
| 14:19:12 | pixelma | if I understand correctly... |
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| 14:29:59 | ucchan | tomers, I confirmed FS #11201. this is not a bug. this is a correct.(reason: I wrote in the tracker) |
| 14:41:19 | kugel | integration into the build system is done, now I have a shot at priority |
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| 14:49:41 | | Join Watermark [0] (~chatzilla@adsl-220-183-243.mob.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:50:26 | Watermark | hello Linuxstb |
| 14:50:42 | Watermark | i was going to ask you a quick question if i may |
| 14:51:19 | linuxstb | Watermark: Go ahead |
| 14:51:41 | Watermark | how dfo you check the SDCFG Value? sorry if this has been asked before. me tired here |
| 14:52:50 | linuxstb | What do you mean by "check" ? You use it in tcctool (you need to edit the source code and recompile tcctool), and if it works, it works. |
| 14:53:51 | Watermark | too bad i have no friends around who would know how to do it |
| 14:54:21 | Watermark | you think you could show me how. since i have the S9 anyhow |
| 14:54:46 | Watermark | just like write up a Guide and send it to me whenever? |
| 14:54:55 | | Join jgarvey [0] (~jgarvey@cpe-065-190-066-089.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 14:55:01 | Watermark | ne more the happy to learn |
| 14:55:27 | wodz | Watermark: start from reading docs from wikipage |
| 14:56:23 | | Quit n1s (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 14:57:06 | Watermark | what exactly would i search for? |
| 14:58:56 | linuxstb | Watermark: Firstly, you need to either install linux (it can be in a virtual machine), or install cygwin. But I don't know for sure if tcctool will compile with cygwin - I haven't tested that... So safer option is to install Linux. |
| 14:59:03 | wodz | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DocsIndex and look for paragraph 'For developers' |
| 14:59:24 | | Part LinusN |
| 14:59:57 | linuxstb | wodz: Watermark wants to compile/change tcctool, which is a PC applicatoin. So no cross-compilers etc needed. |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:43 | Watermark | which Linux do i need? |
| 15:01:07 | Watermark | i have ubuntu on Disc |
| 15:01:52 | Strife89|PalmTX | Ubuntu is fine. |
| 15:02:14 | Strife89|PalmTX | 9.10 is the most recent stable release. |
| 15:02:52 | wodz | linuxstb: ok but working with patches, general compile concept etc. is still valid |
| 15:02:59 | Strife89|PalmTX | Our Linux guide was actually written with Ubuntu in mind. |
| 15:05:05 | Watermark | i am installing ubuntu within a Virtual System |
| 15:05:27 | Watermark | be aware i am new to Linux and i don't know many commands |
| 15:06:05 | wodz | ehh, I moved adc scans to ISR and there is no performance gain at all :-/ |
| 15:06:19 | Strife89|PalmTX | Watermark: Our Linux guide was written with that in mind. ;) |
| 15:06:54 | linuxstb | Watermark: After you get Ubuntu working, you'll need to install the "mingw32" package. e.g. type "sudo apt-get install mingw32" in a terminal (or use the GUI package manager) |
| 15:07:04 | | Quit tomers (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)) |
| 15:07:26 | linuxstb | Watermark: Then you will need to download a copy of the Rockbox source code from SVN - the wiki should have instructions for that. |
| 15:07:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:07:45 | Watermark | kk |
| 15:08:09 | | Join Buschel [0] (~ab@p54A3E5EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:08:12 | Watermark | i will new open a Tabb for just me and you to make things easier |
| 15:08:50 | linuxstb | No, please don't.... I don't have time to be your personal tutor. |
| 15:09:07 | | Join DataGhost [0] (~dataghost@192-18-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl) |
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| 15:09:33 | Watermark | ok |
| 15:09:36 | Watermark | Lol |
| 15:10:24 | Watermark | i'm just wanting to do that becausde it'll be easier to obtain all the Info. without my going up to look for it |
| 15:13:00 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 15:13:27 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 15:14:07 | Watermark | still installing... |
| 15:18:03 | | Join dys [0] (~andreas@krlh-5f72de13.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:21:14 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 15:22:12 | Watermark | so when do i need to have my S9 connected? just asking |
| 15:23:40 | | Quit CGL (Quit: Saliendo) |
| 15:30:36 | | Quit M3DLG (Quit: RAGE QUIT) |
| 15:36:14 | Watermark | currently downloading package then i'll get SVN |
| 15:41:02 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 15:41:14 | | Quit Rob2223 (Quit: Rob2223) |
| 15:42:53 | Watermark | having trouble installing SVN |
| 15:44:02 | perfectdrug | Watermark: sudo apt-get install subversion |
| 15:44:53 | Watermark | thanks installing |
| 15:44:58 | Watermark | done! |
| 15:45:05 | Watermark | ok now what? |
| 15:45:25 | Watermark | o hold on |
| 15:45:31 | Watermark | forgot a step |
| 15:45:36 | | Quit Lynx_ (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!) |
| 15:47:53 | | Quit piotrekm (Quit: piotrekm) |
| 15:49:50 | Watermark | having trouble getting the source. says URL doesn't exist |
| 15:51:01 | pixelma | are you following our guide? |
| 15:51:17 | | Part Strife89|PalmTX |
| 15:51:34 | Watermark | yes, currently reading "How to check out the source code" |
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| 15:53:15 | | Quit mitk (Quit: Leaving) |
| 15:54:03 | Watermark | ok so what do i do? |
| 15:55:23 | pixelma | well, I would try if checking out SVN and building from a clean tree works (provided you have done all the other steps) |
| 15:55:44 | Torne | Watermark: you are typing something wrong, then |
| 15:55:57 | Torne | paste the command you are using |
| 15:56:15 | Watermark | ubuntu |
| 15:56:19 | Watermark | oops |
| 15:56:38 | Watermark | svn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk rockbox |
| 15:56:53 | Torne | Well, our svn repository is working. :) |
| 15:56:53 | Watermark | svn checkout svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk -r 12345 rockbox |
| 15:57:04 | Torne | er |
| 15:57:10 | Torne | the first one is right. |
| 15:57:18 | Watermark | o |
| 15:57:20 | Torne | the other is for a particular revision, and I doubt you want revision 12345 :) |
| 15:57:21 | Watermark | hmm' |
| 15:57:44 | Torne | what exactly does subversoin say? |
| 15:58:13 | | Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@168.16.232.201) |
| 15:59:08 | Watermark | says: svn: URL svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk doesn't exist |
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| 15:59:28 | | Quit SirFunk (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 15:59:56 | gevaerts | network issues? |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:07 | Torne | are you behind some kind of proxy/firewall, perhaps at work? |
| 16:00:30 | Watermark | i'm not at work. me at home and no, not behind any Friewall |
| 16:01:18 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 16:01:40 | pixelma | sorry for not being helpful, I missed the "trouble" in your statement before |
| 16:02:09 | Watermark | o it's just the URL isn't working |
| 16:02:18 | * | GodEater would guess it's a networking issue with the VM that's just had ubuntu installed into it? |
| 16:02:43 | Watermark | maybe so |
| 16:04:16 | Watermark | i may just go ahead and buy a new S9. this is taking too much time |
| 16:05:02 | B4gder | this? you just started! |
| 16:06:10 | Watermark | yes but i keep running into issues and it's pissing me off a bit |
| 16:06:21 | Watermark | i'm not a Linux user here |
| 16:06:34 | B4gder | in a couple of weeks you've learned! |
| 16:07:44 | Watermark | true but how do wee know if this will even work? how do we know this will fix my Cowon S9? |
| 16:08:05 | B4gder | we don't |
| 16:08:56 | Watermark | i just wish i never did what i did but it was for the noob users out there just in case they try to do it. now i can tell them not to |
| 16:09:32 | Watermark | trying to figure out the sdcfg value is just too much hassle for me |
| 16:12:01 | | Quit Watermark (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]) |
| 16:12:30 | | Quit Strife89 (Quit: Restart.) |
| 16:20:32 | | Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@168.16.232.201) |
| 16:28:03 | kugel | can't we just offer source zips again? |
| 16:29:34 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 16:31:17 | B4gder | how would that help for this? |
| 16:31:30 | B4gder | he would need network access for that as well |
| 16:35:44 | kugel | he could download it on the host and transfer it manually at least |
| 16:35:50 | | Quit Xerion (Quit: ) |
| 16:36:05 | gevaerts | we do have source zips, just not the archived daily ones |
| 16:36:16 | B4gder | he could svn checkout on the host too |
| 16:38:22 | kugel | gevaerts: none for the current build either |
| 16:39:19 | gevaerts | hm, right. I was confused apparently |
| 16:39:45 | kugel | gevaerts: implemention priority seems a bit tricky, because kernel.c is involved there too |
| 16:40:07 | CIA-5 | New commit by torne (r25646): Make builds with MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE defined (ipod video) work with larger sizes if the drive is sane. ... |
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| 16:45:48 | kugel | gevaerts: also I think we would need to use pth's mutex instead of ours, needing to introduce a typedef for struct mutex |
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| 16:51:32 | Blue_Dude | Noticed that there is a leftover directory from Uchida's commit earlier. If I svn del it and then commit it, will that take care of it? |
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| 16:51:49 | Torne | should do |
| 16:51:58 | kugel | maybe jhMikeS can give me info on this |
| 16:52:24 | Blue_Dude | Hm. I'll try it. |
| 16:52:53 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25647): Empty folder cleanup |
| 16:53:04 | Blue_Dude | Seems ok. |
| 16:53:56 | | Quit mikroflops_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 16:56:52 | Torne | amiconn: did you think of anything sensible to do re contrast on the mono ipods? |
| 16:57:04 | Torne | linuxstb: how do we go about doing an ipod bootloader release? |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:13 | * | kugel cries at prio_add_entry() |
| 17:02:11 | | Quit JohannesSM64 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 17:03:00 | | Quit Zagor (Quit: Leaving) |
| 17:06:35 | linuxstb | Torne: I guess the first thing is to build the bootloaders - you do something like "make VERSION=v3.0" to set the version string - and make them available somewhere for people to test. I guess because it's been so long since a release, we should give them a proper test. |
| 17:07:02 | linuxstb | In the past, the releases were quite close together, so testing just involved finding one person with that target to check it worked. |
| 17:07:20 | Torne | right. that's probably a good plan |
| 17:07:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:07:35 | Torne | do you think it's worth trying to do something about contrast, btw? |
| 17:07:57 | Torne | i am indifferent since i am assuming that if thos eplayers were widely used and the new defaults were useless people would've complained |
| 17:08:13 | linuxstb | Maybe a test checklist would be useful - e.g. to make sure dual-booting the OF still works, and that the OF itself is still functional. I remember some strange bugs in the past where the OF would boot, but music wouldn't play for example... |
| 17:08:40 | linuxstb | So there seems to be different LCD types on the 3G, requiring a different default contrast? |
| 17:08:50 | linuxstb | Also, do your changes affect the nano2g? |
| 17:09:13 | kugel | Torne: what do you think of the idea to provide a emergency mode in the rockbox bootloader? |
| 17:09:27 | Torne | kugel: you mean include the usb stack? |
| 17:09:31 | Torne | kugel: i had considered that too |
| 17:09:37 | Torne | we could do. |
| 17:09:37 | kugel | especially on PP since the patcher allow complete removal of the of |
| 17:09:51 | Torne | rom disk mode still works.. |
| 17:09:56 | Torne | it's not a complete removal :) |
| 17:09:57 | linuxstb | It doesn't seem that useful on ipods, as that has the Apple disk mode in NOR... |
| 17:10:02 | | Quit Blue_Dude (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]) |
| 17:10:03 | Torne | linuxstb: i've not done anything to nano2g |
| 17:10:17 | Torne | linuxstb: the reboot-on-cable-insert from fatal error thing could be done on nano2g though |
| 17:10:22 | kugel | I have removed it long ago, but I needed to resort to e200tool once |
| 17:10:24 | Torne | linuxstb: using more or less identical code. |
| 17:10:43 | linuxstb | kugel: Don't confuse Sansas and ipods... |
| 17:10:53 | | Join TillW [0] (~Till@nat026.dc-uoit.net) |
| 17:11:00 | kugel | linuxstb: which is why I said PP |
| 17:11:05 | Torne | the ipod bootloaders are not the PP bootloaders |
| 17:11:10 | Torne | they are totally unrelated |
| 17:11:15 | Torne | ipod doesn't use the normal pp bootloader code at all |
| 17:11:34 | kugel | I know |
| 17:11:37 | linuxstb | kugel: So what targets did you mean by "PP" ? |
| 17:11:39 | Torne | the only one of my hcanges that affects anything other than PP ipods is turning on LBA48 |
| 17:12:05 | linuxstb | kugel: And "the patcher" refers to which patcher? |
| 17:12:15 | kugel | linuxstb: PP ipods and sansas mainly |
| 17:12:37 | kugel | if recovering from a broken rockbox.mi4 is still dead simple on the ipods then it's probably not needed |
| 17:12:46 | Torne | kugel: lots of targets already include the usb mass storage mode in the bootloader |
| 17:12:46 | linuxstb | There isn't a rockbox.mi4 on ipods... |
| 17:13:03 | Torne | kugel: so if the non-ipod PP targets would benefit from that it's easily done |
| 17:13:09 | Torne | but for ipod it's probably irrelevant. |
| 17:13:16 | Torne | because of hte always-available rom disk mode |
| 17:13:23 | Torne | (which is now easier to boot into) :) |
| 17:13:35 | kugel | ok |
| 17:14:24 | Torne | i pondered doing it but i decided that just making it easier to boot to disk mode on error was sufficient |
| 17:14:42 | kugel | a rockbox'ish solution would be a bit cooler though :) |
| 17:15:40 | | Join JohannesSM64 [0] (~johannes@cm-84.215.75.42.getinternet.no) |
| 17:15:48 | linuxstb | I don't think it's straightforward, at least on ipods (I've no idea about the other PP targets). The ipod bootloader is running completely from IRAM (although using some SDRAM for bss) and doesn't enable interrupts. |
| 17:16:04 | kugel | since our goal is to be a complete replacement we should also provide some recovery mechanism if possible instead of relying on the OF |
| 17:16:19 | kugel | imo |
| 17:16:21 | Torne | kugel: if we were going ot be a complete replacement we would have a loooot further to go on ipod :) |
| 17:16:35 | Torne | we rely on *loads* of hardware setup by the NOR bootloader |
| 17:16:53 | kugel | I wasn't aware of that |
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| 17:25:50 | Torne | kugel: well, I say that |
| 17:25:58 | Torne | it might not be loads, really |
| 17:26:01 | Torne | but some, certainly |
| 17:26:26 | Torne | it would take some reasonable effort and probably further reverse-engineering of apple bootloaders for our bootloader to be installable in rom |
| 17:26:45 | Torne | and, unless someone thinks of a clever trick we don't currently know, this would cause faulty bootloader installations to brick the player |
| 17:27:06 | Torne | so i suspect most people would say that this is *not* desirable to pursue |
| 17:27:26 | Torne | the flash bootloader on ipod is fairly quick; it doesn't take much time to get to the point where it hands us control. |
| 17:28:28 | kugel | nobody talked about removing the disk mode ;) |
| 17:28:38 | Torne | hm? |
| 17:28:59 | Torne | disk mode is loade dby the NOR bootloader, though |
| 17:29:08 | | Quit mirsal (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 17:29:11 | Torne | so if we replaced that with our own code, then a bug in our code would potentially render both rockbox and the rom disk mode unbootable |
| 17:29:15 | Torne | leaving your player bricked. |
| 17:29:23 | kugel | well, I mean whatever in the NOR is |
| 17:29:35 | Torne | right |
| 17:29:41 | | Quit Minataku (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 17:30:06 | Torne | so my point is, we don't want to tamper with the flash unless there's a really big advantage to be had thereby, because it's not a *bad* bootloader and it has a nice recovery optoin.. |
| 17:30:18 | Torne | so why bother to provide our own recovery option as well? |
| 17:30:36 | kugel | I just corrupted my rockbox.mi4 on my e200 once and was bitter than the bootloader couldn't help me recover |
| 17:31:00 | Torne | i don't know how e200 works, so i can't really comment |
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| 17:31:41 | kugel | Torne: I just asked because IIRC the ipods have a similar ability to replace the OF as the e200 (where the e200 loses the OF provided recovery mode) |
| 17:32:01 | kugel | I didn't know the ipods have another easy way to recover |
| 17:32:15 | Torne | on ipod we install by either replacing or modifying the contents of a file on the firmware parittion with either the bootloader or a rockbox build |
| 17:32:22 | Torne | numerous combinations work :) |
| 17:32:34 | Torne | but in all cases the flash is untouched and you can still get the rom disk mode |
| 17:32:46 | kugel | that's also how it's done on the e200 basically |
| 17:33:02 | Torne | right. but presumably the e200's flash loader doesn't have a usb recovery option? |
| 17:33:08 | Torne | or at least not a convenient one that's mass storage |
| 17:33:53 | kugel | the e200 OF bootloader (I don't exactly know where it's stored, but I assumed in flash so far) has a recovery mode |
| 17:34:51 | kugel | there's another mode which does not expose a UMS drive but you can recover from that with the e200tool |
| 17:36:39 | kugel | you can replace the former with a rockbox binary (or patch it to load one from the firmware partiton, that's the default procedure) in which case you lose the recovery mode |
| 17:44:06 | linuxstb | Torne: The Sansas are similar to the ipods (they have a firmware paritiion), but the OF bootloader is stored in that partition as well. So easier to "brick" than ipods. |
| 17:44:55 | kugel | but still almost impossible |
| 17:45:19 | linuxstb | The boot ROM on the Sansas just provide a kind of "usb boot" facility, allowing you to upload code to run. So yes, very hard to destroy that... |
| 17:45:39 | Torne | ok, so yeah. it's still unbrickable, but when you "brick" it it's more hassle to fix |
| 17:45:53 | Torne | whereas the ipod's recovery mode is functionally equivalent to our own usb stack :) |
| 17:46:23 | Llorean | kugel: Basically, through the tools we provide it should be nearly impossible / impossible to remove UMS access from an iPod, and recovering should always be as simple as hooking it up in "disk mode", recovering an MBR, formatting, and having iPodpatcher install a binary of your choice, in the worst case. |
| 17:46:44 | | Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@p57B4AA34.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:47:16 | gevaerts | Torne: well, e200tool also provides the means to "brick" the things more solidly |
| 17:48:08 | Llorean | Though you could -wf an image that contained a replacement flash image if you really wanted to. |
| 17:48:22 | Llorean | But that'd be similar to any other device - if you try to brick it all bets are off. |
| 17:48:39 | Torne | Yeah, you'd have to overwrit ehte whole partition with one that had somehting invalid in AUPD |
| 17:48:45 | Torne | and the updat-eflash flag set to true |
| 17:48:58 | Torne | this is very very unlikely to happen by anything other than a really determined intentional attempt |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:17:59 | sbpaul | can somebody remind me how to refresh my library on an ipod 4g |
| 18:19:15 | Torne | the manual can |
| 18:20:01 | sbpaul | no time man |
| 18:20:04 | sbpaul | class in 20 |
| 18:20:24 | Torne | i don't have time to read the manual for you either |
| 18:20:32 | sbpaul | then we're stuck i guess |
| 18:21:48 | sbpaul | damn |
| 18:21:50 | sbpaul | the manual is wrong |
| 18:22:41 | sbpaul | oic n/m |
| 18:22:42 | | Part sbpaul |
| 18:22:51 | * | Torne eyerolls |
| 18:22:56 | ender` | haha |
| 18:23:32 | Torne | i was about to say, i bet it's not. |
| 18:23:34 | Torne | :) |
| 18:24:14 | kugel | Torne: I wouldn't bet on that |
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| 18:28:53 | pixelma | says the one who didn't manage to get the playlist viewer shortcut into the manual as long as it existed in its pure form ;) |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:02:25 | n1s | hmm, gcc4.5 is just about released, something to play with over the summer :) (and a testbuild for h300 i did last week went through almost without problems) |
| 19:02:46 | n1s | only thing was that the nsf codec no longer fit iram |
| 19:03:24 | n1s | and a few more warnings about apparenlty possibly undefined behaviour |
| 19:04:51 | n1s | of course i haven't tested to see if it actually works either :) |
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| 19:05:52 | bertrik | n1s, nice, maybe the undefined behaviour warning are dormant bugs |
| 19:06:05 | n1s | perhaps |
| 19:06:11 | bertrik | they may point to bugs in rockbox I mean |
| 19:06:28 | n1s | after a brief glance they seem to be pretty hard to read code at least |
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| 19:07:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 19:19:15 | amiconn | Torne: The idea is to implement hw version handling like the OF. |
| 19:19:42 | amiconn | The problem lies in finding the respective code... :\ |
| 19:19:55 | Torne | amiconn: is that likely to happen in the near-term future? suitable for a bootloader release in the next, say, month? |
| 19:19:59 | Torne | :) |
| 19:20:21 | amiconn | Depends on my luck in RE. Maybe today, maybe never... |
| 19:21:15 | amiconn | Well, of course you could also try to find the responsible code :) |
| 19:21:19 | Torne | ok. well, i'm gonna do some bootloader test builds soonish, so i guess we'll see what b&w ipod users think of it |
| 19:21:25 | Torne | and yeah, er, about that. ;) |
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| 19:23:01 | amiconn | This is the table: http://rockbox.pastebin.ca/1860185 |
| 19:23:27 | amiconn | As you can see, the table evolved not just in number of entries, but also changed format with newer versions of the ROM |
| 19:24:12 | amiconn | The Mini G2 version exists twice in the ROM, and at some point I had a better disassembly which had a reference to one of these |
| 19:24:24 | amiconn | But now I just can't find it again :( |
| 19:24:52 | | Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht2@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 19:25:01 | amiconn | I've commented all fields I was able to figure out |
| 19:25:37 | amiconn | We can't use those values as-is, but we need to find out how the OF picks the line to apply |
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| 19:30:53 | pixelma | Torne: what are b&w Ipod users? |
| 19:30:54 | Torne | black and white |
| 19:30:58 | Torne | well, greyscale. |
| 19:31:46 | | Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 19:31:47 | pixelma | which Ipods are you referring to exactly? E.g. there are also greyscale 4G Ipods etc... |
| 19:32:40 | | Join TheSeven [0] (~theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 19:32:44 | Torne | pixelma: yes. all of them. 1g-4g, and mini 1g/2g |
| 19:33:05 | Torne | the others are colour |
| 19:33:16 | Torne | the greyscale ones all use the same driver |
| 19:33:22 | Torne | just with slightly different settings |
| 19:33:27 | | Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 19:34:01 | pixelma | does the difference also exist between greyscale and colour 4G Ipods? |
| 19:34:26 | Torne | ther eis no problem with the colour LCDs, afaik |
| 19:35:07 | | Quit GeekShadow (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 19:35:27 | pixelma | umm... silly me. For some reason I didn't remember it was about the LCDs |
| 19:40:06 | | Join Xerion [0] (~xerion@84.25.7.202) |
| 19:40:57 | n1s | hmm,yeah a[u] = ++a[u] | c; seems undefined to me |
| 19:41:11 | | Nick funman is now known as funbot (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 19:42:30 | n1s | the question is just, what the intended behaviour is :) |
| 19:43:05 | n1s | a[u] = a[u+1] | c; a++; ? |
| 19:43:10 | | Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@p4FE8F6E5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:43:52 | | Nick funbot is now known as funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 19:44:39 | | Join hebz0rl [0] (~hebz0rl@dslb-088-067-215-056.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:44:45 | funman | perhaps the intended behaviour is undefined behaviour ? :) |
| 19:45:06 | pixelma | Llorean: regarding your question in the unsupport build section about the included theme - I wondered about license issues there too. Isn't he responsible for this alone, or does the fact that he uses our code make us responsible too, or is the problem that it is well not hosted but at least given some publicity? |
| 19:45:30 | pixelma | in our forums, I mean |
| 19:45:34 | n1s | there's also a enum comparison warning in mpegplayer, a weird "warning: case value ‘4294967295’ not in enumerated type ‘gamestate_t’" warning in doom |
| 19:46:04 | n1s | and another undefined warning in png |
| 19:46:23 | kugel | what are you toying with? |
| 19:46:24 | | Join mirsal [0] (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 19:47:00 | funman | gcc 4.5 ? |
| 19:47:01 | Llorean | pixelma: It's more just if he's distributing it through our boards, it should be something he's legally allowed to distribute. |
| 19:47:13 | n1s | funman: yep |
| 19:47:15 | | Join Luca_S [0] (~5711feea@giant.haxx.se) |
| 19:47:18 | kugel | I knew it :p |
| 19:47:53 | pixelma | he already said so a while ago |
| 19:47:55 | Llorean | Basically, I think if someone wouldn't be allowed to post a theme to our site for copyright reasons, they shouldn't be allowed to bypass that by simply posting it somewhere on the forums instead. |
| 19:48:03 | | Part Llorean |
| 19:48:46 | funman | Llorean: makes perfect sense |
| 19:50:56 | S_a_i_n_t | Regarding the themesite...does anyone actually pay any attention if themes are reported as infringing a copyright? |
| 19:51:08 | S_a_i_n_t | I dunno how many times I've reported http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=419&target=ipodnano1g now... |
| 19:51:12 | S_a_i_n_t | but, it's a lot. |
| 19:51:22 | * | n1s wonders what line 197 of doom/d_main.c is supposed to mean and why that is valid code |
| 19:51:49 | n1s | gamestate_t is an enum typedef from doomdef.h... |
| 19:51:58 | | Join phanboy4 [0] (~benji@c-174-49-112-244.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 19:56:22 | kugel | n1s: doom has a lot of problematic code, enums are the reason it doesn't run under eabi |
| 19:56:23 | n1s | uum, right it's a cast but still wth |
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| 19:57:28 | | Quit phanboy4 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 19:57:48 | n1s | yeah, this line should be harmless though, it will never be reached unless there is some major hackery in tere |
| 19:57:50 | | Join watto [0] (~watto@193.203.81.165) |
| 19:57:54 | amiconn | Well, regarding the C standard it's not valid code |
| 19:58:38 | amiconn | Technically it is though, since an enum is an int type of some sort |
| 19:59:06 | pixelma | S_a_i_n_t: there are only a few theme site admins and I don't know how active they are (and what exactly they need to do with a reported theme) |
| 19:59:07 | amiconn | But the fact that doom freely mixes enums with int is why it crashes in eabi |
| 19:59:32 | amiconn | That's in fact not a problem of eabi itself, but rather just because eabi defaults to short enums |
| 19:59:53 | amiconn | If you compile doom with old abi and short enums, it will crash too |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:07 | n1s | i wonder why gcc doesn't even war when an enum type is assigned an int value (that doesn't match any of the possible enums) |
| 20:00:12 | kugel | likewise it runs with eabi and long enums |
| 20:00:34 | kugel | n1s: because that's not a problem |
| 20:00:46 | n1s | hmm, this one particular bug seems easy to fix |
| 20:00:53 | kugel | and it indeed does, in case it can know (it does in a few places in doom, but there's more to fix) |
| 20:01:39 | kugel | the problem is when you write enum value at a location pointed to by a pointer of a different size |
| 20:02:09 | n1s | kugel: an enum shouldn't have any values other than are defined for that enum type, so i think it's aproblem, also why not just use an int then? |
| 20:02:17 | kugel | *int_ptr = some_enum_val; <−− that's the bug |
| 20:02:27 | kugel | and doom hides many of these by casting |
| 20:03:00 | n1s | yeah, that may be why it crashes but i think assigning "impossible" values to enum types is a bug too |
| 20:03:03 | perfectdrug | pixelma: do you know why we name the prev/next buttons in the manual sometimes Left/Right? |
| 20:03:44 | kugel | as you can see, doom makes excessive use of enums so nobody bothered fixing it yet |
| 20:03:45 | perfectdrug | in the SVG's i mean |
| 20:04:20 | pixelma | that usually depends on the target and how the buttons are referred to in the text |
| 20:04:28 | pixelma | some use prev and next |
| 20:05:02 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:05:36 | perfectdrug | ah ok because b0hoon asked me to change that so that he can more easily write the manual, so fair enough |
| 20:06:15 | perfectdrug | and it would be more consistent with the sourcecode he says so alright, thanks |
| 20:06:54 | amiconn | Left/Right are called that because these are the only two buttons which consistently exist on all targets |
| 20:07:33 | amiconn | Hmm, although the manual sometimes calls them different |
| 20:07:55 | pixelma | perfectdrug: the image with the labels is exactly there to show how the buttons will be named throughout the manual |
| 20:08:39 | perfectdrug | hm ok, and should I call it Prev or Previous |
| 20:09:01 | | Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:09:17 | pixelma | amiconn: the platform (keymap) files let you specify some text that will be placed if e.g. the \ButtonLeft macro is used in the source |
| 20:10:33 | pixelma | perfectdrug: I think Prev is more common then (actually that's the only form I remember reading) |
| 20:10:46 | perfectdrug | ok thank you |
| 20:10:55 | | Join Buschel [0] (~ab@p54A3A8D4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:14:21 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 20:15:48 | * | gevaerts thinks someone should finish the meizu M3 port |
| 20:15:54 | | Part Adubb |
| 20:16:03 | * | funman thanks gevaerts for volunteering |
| 20:16:11 | perfectdrug | can someone reopen FS #10947 for this changes or should I email him the new files? (he gave me his email) |
| 20:16:24 | gevaerts | funman: I can't! Someone else has it! |
| 20:16:36 | funman | gevaerts: hopefully the work of TheSeven will work on them |
| 20:16:54 | gevaerts | But it's needed to disprove this idea that all players have left and right buttons :) |
| 20:18:01 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 20:18:40 | | Quit kramer3d (Quit: Leaving) |
| 20:22:10 | | Join xiainx [0] (~xiainx@modemcable195.238-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:27:50 | * | TheSeven wonders what funman is referring to |
| 20:28:06 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 20:28:17 | TheSeven | what's blocking the M3? Whimory? |
| 20:29:25 | | Join pamaury [0] (~c2c7a50a@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 20:31:19 | | Nick YPSY is now known as Ypsy (~ypsy@geekpadawan.de) |
| 20:31:33 | funman | TheSeven: meizus use the same SoC than ipodnano2g? |
| 20:31:45 | TheSeven | not exactly, only something similar |
| 20:32:35 | Buschel | pixelma: could take a look at fs #11198? I would like to commit if there are no offenses |
| 20:34:25 | * | TheSeven wonders what to do about the nano4g |
| 20:34:58 | TheSeven | ida just isn't good enough to decipher that bootloader mess |
| 20:35:00 | | Quit jd (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:35:08 | | Quit JohannesSM64 (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2-dev) |
| 20:35:15 | n1s | TheSeven: looking into the n4g+ |
| 20:35:16 | | Join jd [0] (~jd@modemcable207.134-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:35:17 | | Quit jd (Changing host) |
| 20:35:17 | | Join jd [0] (~jd@Wikipedia/HellDragon) |
| 20:35:23 | n1s | eh s/+/? |
| 20:36:05 | TheSeven | yes, but it doesn't look good at all |
| 20:36:17 | n1s | how come? |
| 20:36:46 | TheSeven | apple went totally crazy when designing the bootloader for that one |
| 20:37:01 | n1s | looking for a better way to load custom code? |
| 20:37:30 | TheSeven | no, i'm looking for a way to understand the disassembly, to figure out how to use the hardware |
| 20:38:08 | Luca_S | you already have lcd from what it seems from the screenshot on the linux4nano wiki? |
| 20:38:18 | TheSeven | yep |
| 20:38:24 | TheSeven | usb, lcd, backlight, but not much mure |
| 20:38:28 | TheSeven | more* |
| 20:39:37 | TheSeven | their bootloader consists of 43 little EXE files (yes, relocatable PE executables), which use guid-based lookup tables that are created dynamically during runtime (the modules are registering themselves) to access driver functions |
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| 20:40:02 | TheSeven | following xrefs is practically impossible that way |
| 20:40:36 | | Quit shai (Quit: Leaving) |
| 20:47:41 | | Quit flydutch (Quit: /* empty */) |
| 20:49:22 | n1s | could it be run in an emulator or something? |
| 20:49:45 | TheSeven | possibly |
| 20:49:50 | pixelma | Buschel: consistency and correct use is nice, so I like the kHz etc. changes. The added space looks a bit odd to me but I don't know how it is correctly (or most commonly used) in British English - maybe a native speaker could comment? |
| 20:50:06 | n1s | also no sensible disasm i could look at then... |
| 20:50:11 | TheSeven | coldboot attacks have also revealed a bunch of things |
| 20:50:43 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:51:38 | n1s | is what we know in the wik (rb or l4n) or someplace else? |
| 20:51:42 | Buschel | pixelma: you are talking about the spaces between numbers and the unit? |
| 20:51:44 | n1s | wiki |
| 20:51:57 | pixelma | Buschel: yes |
| 20:53:03 | Buschel | pixelma: I have browsed wikipedia a bit (e.g. for SI). the spacing between number and unit is commonly used. |
| 20:53:24 | funman | TheSeven: what is the SoC inside nano3g and nano4g ? |
| 20:53:54 | TheSeven | nano3g and all ipod classic generations: s5l8702, nano4g: s5l8720 |
| 20:57:50 | | Quit funman (Quit: free(random());) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:04:12 | * | gevaerts points more people at FS #11175 |
| 21:07:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:09:36 | n1s | gevaerts: that bug is just too weird, also is it happening in the sim? |
| 21:09:52 | gevaerts | n1s: I've not managed to reproduce it in the sim, no |
| 21:09:59 | gevaerts | it's real though |
| 21:10:40 | gevaerts | CenterArt v2.0 has this fancy WPS playlist viewer, which might be related |
| 21:10:52 | | Part watto |
| 21:12:10 | n1s | might be |
| 21:12:53 | n1s | maybe one approach could be to eliminate as much of the wps as possible to see which elements trigger this? |
| 21:13:07 | | Quit esperegu (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 21:16:31 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 21:18:00 | gevaerts | maybe |
| 21:18:07 | * | gevaerts gets confused by that wps |
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| 21:18:39 | gevaerts | Are you allowed to have multiple %Vl tags with the same identifier? |
| 21:18:47 | pixelma | yes |
| 21:19:14 | gevaerts | How does that work then? |
| 21:19:27 | gevaerts | it shows all of them? |
| 21:19:47 | pixelma | they'll all show up at the same time (as defined by THE RESPECTIVE %Vd) |
| 21:19:59 | pixelma | sorry dor caps |
| 21:20:20 | gevaerts | hm, that's useful to know |
| 21:20:31 | pixelma | *for |
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| 21:23:28 | gevaerts | It seems to be the %Vp tag indeed |
| 21:23:40 | gevaerts | removing it makes things work |
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| 21:32:48 | pixelma | besides the center viewports (I mean the two "a"s and the two "b"s are also overlapping |
| 21:33:35 | pixelma | to clarify: the second "a" overlaps the first "a" |
| 21:33:57 | gevaerts | overlapping viewports shouldn't cause buffering/playback issues though |
| 21:36:30 | n1s | TheSeven: could there be anything useful that might not be so crazy in the iphone OS for ipod tough 2g to disassemble to figure out the s5l8720? |
| 21:37:08 | TheSeven | possibly |
| 21:37:36 | TheSeven | but to work out things like the flash memory controller setup, we should really use code belonging to that device |
| 21:38:03 | TheSeven | the best way would probably be to write some script that tracks down all those calls between the efi modules automatically |
| 21:41:08 | n1s | i still hope to be able to help but this stuff is still out of my league :/ |
| 21:44:09 | CIA-5 | New commit by Buschel (r25648): Consistent use of Hz, kHz, dB, dbFS, ms, s and min. Add spaces between number and unit −− e.g. '5 dB'. |
| 21:44:36 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 21:44:41 | Buschel | pixelma: if the spaces should be a problem (what I do not think), we can easily exchange them again. |
| 21:45:46 | gevaerts | Buschel: shouldn't those be non-breaking spaces? |
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| 21:47:22 | pixelma | that would be important I guess (didn't think of it so far though) |
| 21:47:55 | Buschel | hmm, checking... |
| 21:50:08 | pixelma | what do you check? Just asking because I'm a bit irritated by this answer :) |
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| 21:50:24 | Buschel | checking how to add those and test it |
| 21:50:52 | pixelma | ah, ok |
| 21:50:55 | Buschel | I did not think of adding those either |
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| 22:00 |
| 22:00:19 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Lämnar) |
| 22:02:57 | pixelma | gevaerts: I'm a bit confused about this playlist viewer viewport and its handling, not sure I can explain it though. Do you know if %Vp works the same as viewports or the same as elements you can put inside viewports? If the former. it is always there, just covered by album art - could this be a problem? |
| 22:03:12 | | Join petur [0] (~peter@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 22:03:40 | pixelma | I lost overview about the most recent additions to WPS/SBS tags |
| 22:04:27 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:04:30 | | Part Adubb |
| 22:04:46 | gevaerts | pixelma: I don't know actually, but I don't have album art on that player |
| 22:04:57 | pixelma | gevaerts: what happens if you make the them non-conditional? |
| 22:05:09 | pixelma | *theme |
| 22:05:29 | pixelma | just keeping the playlist viewer part |
| 22:08:12 | pixelma | ah hmm, looking at its parameters though it's probably more an element you can put inside the viewport |
| 22:08:41 | pixelma | the "%V" it it confused me though |
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| 22:13:29 | pixelma | gevaerts: maybe it's still an interesting test - gettung rid of the "a" viewports and keeping one of the "b"s and the conditional with that handles displaying them |
| 22:14:37 | | Quit mischasworld (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:14:43 | pixelma | maybe not, I'm currently confusing myself :\ |
| 22:15:34 | gevaerts | I'm currently testing with the most minimal %Vp-based theme I can think of |
| 22:16:55 | | Join fml [0] (~chatzilla@port-83-236-234-85.static.qsc.de) |
| 22:17:50 | fml | gevaerts, Buschel: the spaces between the number and the unit *should* be non-breakable, i.e. a '~' should be used instead of just space. |
| 22:18:16 | pixelma | that would be my approach too which reminds me about the thread in the forums about %C in two different viewports to get the art into different positions under certain circumstances. I tested myself and it really didn't work |
| 22:18:35 | pixelma | ^ gevaerts |
| 22:18:41 | | Quit CGL (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:19:24 | Buschel | fml: just preparing this |
| 22:19:52 | gevaerts | Well, my entire wps is now "%Vp|0|%pp - %it|%pp - %fn|", and it still happens |
| 22:20:11 | gevaerts | So I'm prepared to state that conditional viewports are not involved |
| 22:20:27 | fml | Buschel: there is also the latex package SIunits, but that would make typesetting units even more complicated IMO |
| 22:22:58 | | Quit fml (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]) |
| 22:23:14 | * | gevaerts thinks that this is a really impressive bug |
| 22:23:17 | pixelma | I wouldn't like adding more dependencies unless there is a good reason to |
| 22:26:56 | pixelma | gevaerts: did you try whether there are differences depending on which info you let it display? |
| 22:28:03 | pixelma | I'm thinking of the playlist position especially as there was (maybe still is) an issue with it advancing earlier than the rest on track changes etc. |
| 22:28:30 | pixelma | something like this anyways |
| 22:30:17 | gevaerts | pixelma: I first tried with the line from the centerart theme, and then with the line from the CustomWPS page. I tried the latter with both 0 and one as the starting position. No difference |
| 22:31:01 | pixelma | I meant taking out the %pp |
| 22:31:15 | pixelma | or other tags |
| 22:32:03 | | Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:32:28 | pixelma | CenterArt doesn't have it... there goes that idea :\ |
| 22:34:39 | * | pixelma always wanted the next tracks' playlist position available (instrad of some "Next" etc.) and sees that this would be a means for it... even for hwcodec |
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| 22:38:08 | | Quit perfectdrug (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 22:38:23 | CIA-5 | New commit by Buschel (r25649): More work on consistent usage of units in the manual. Use non-breaking spaces if applicable. |
| 22:43:23 | pixelma | Buschel: I don't understand the change to N/A in appendix/config_file_options.tex although I see there are different units (ms and s) |
| 22:44:17 | * | pixelma fetches the Ondio |
| 22:44:54 | Buschel | pixelma: other setting with "off" and different units (ms, s) also use N/A. |
| 22:45:53 | gevaerts | even more fun |
| 22:46:08 | Buschel | e.g. skip length, peak meter, ... |
| 22:46:37 | | Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:47:13 | pixelma | it's a bit weird, the settings list is "off", "20ms" and then all the seconds values don't show the unit |
| 22:47:51 | Buschel | we shall define a minor set of rules for such settings |
| 22:48:13 | pixelma | and the settings don't have a space between number and unit |
| 22:48:56 | Buschel | yes, that's intentional. the config file uses the setting without spaces -> e.g. "5min" |
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| 23:00 |
| 23:00:43 | gevaerts | pixelma: can I stop simplifying the test case when I get data aborts instead of strange playlist shuffling? |
| 23:01:23 | | Quit xavieran (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:03:03 | pixelma | probably. I guess I should try on hwcodec but I'm too tired. |
| 23:03:33 | gevaerts | yes, same here... |
| 23:03:49 | pixelma | did you try on different arcitectures, maybe coldfire? |
| 23:04:11 | gevaerts | not yet. Maybe tomorrow... |
| 23:04:12 | pixelma | it sometimes gives different results |
| 23:04:15 | | Quit efyx (Quit: Quitte) |
| 23:05:19 | gevaerts | The data abort is in wps_parse(), so I'll leave it to those who know that code for now |
| 23:06:14 | * | gevaerts dislikes the reset settings button on ipod video |
| 23:07:35 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:11:08 | pixelma | something completely different - could file system errors result in completely trashing the file system if files are written? I'm still trying to find out what happened to my Ondio recently and remember that not long ago I was affected by the bug with file system errors when deleting dirs and I ran disktidy quite a bit recently. I don't *know* if there were any errors before, just asking if there was a possibility |
| 23:11:35 | gevaerts | yes |
| 23:12:08 | Buschel | is it intentional that the iPods manuals are using the naming Ipod instead the correct iPod? The same error is contained for Itunes and iTunes. |
| 23:12:29 | pixelma | gevaerts: thanks, that could explain it |
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| 23:15:44 | pixelma | Buschel: the discussion comes up every now and then. There was a convention that was agreed upon to just capitalise names. The reason was that Iriver changed their own spelling and just not caring about manufacturer's conventions makes the manual independent from that |
| 23:17:12 | pixelma | it's probably still controversial about Ipods |
| 23:17:28 | Buschel | pixelma: 'iPod' looks much more pleasing to my eyes. |
| 23:17:54 | Buschel | pixelma: is it agreed to keep it the way like it is? I have a patch at hand ;o) |
| 23:18:45 | gevaerts | Buschel: well, since it was a conscious decision, I guess it needs a consensus to change :) |
| 23:19:24 | Buschel | I wondered if the reason for the wrong spelling is some legal issue... |
| 23:19:26 | pixelma | I personally prefer Ipod - for independency (and personal dislike of iThings I admit |
| 23:19:29 | pixelma | ) |
| 23:21:26 | pixelma | at least I wouldn't call it "wrong" spelling |
| 23:21:57 | Buschel | well, for me the 'Ipod' spelling is irritating. But that is personal taste... |
| 23:23:31 | Buschel | pixelma: Apple would have another opinion ;) |
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| 23:25:53 | gevaerts | Buschel: If we agreed with Apple's taste, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all ;) |
| 23:29:56 | Buschel | at least the decision will be to either a) capitalize all products and companies names (and −− imho −− loose some product identification) or b) use the appropriate spelling, if someone keeps it up-to-date. I would prefer b) and letting mr. someone do the work. |
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| 23:31:31 | Buschel | mr. someone = me (for iPods :) |
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| 23:39:13 | CIA-5 | New commit by b0hoon (r25650): Packard Bell Vibe 500: change a not so lucky keymap for the bookmark delete. |
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