#rockbox 2010-04-18

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#rockbox log for 2010-04-18

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00:41:08	nicknamedave	I just read through the manual and there are still several things I don't understand. Starting simply: Which program should I download for last.fm compatibility? I noticed several, and I'm not sure exactly which one is, well, best.
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00:44:33	funman	try them all and decide for yourself?
00:45:18	nicknamedave	Sounds like fun
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00:54:57	soap	qtscrobbler is the best. Moving on... ;)
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04:33:50	saratoga	huh the new clip+ firmware from sandisk has an "mp4decoder" block added
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04:49:58	saratoga	if this is really an AAC decoder, its kind of interesting, tons of fixed point multiplies but they're all 32 bit x 32 = 32 bit, no long multiplies
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04:50:38	saratoga	i guess AAC is big enough that you could go through all that effort to figure out how to do it all with low precision and still given ok sounding results
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08:34:04	S_a_i_n_t	its closed now, but S_a_i_n_t wonders what this guy (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=24548.msg165365#msg165365) was on about...
08:34:25	S_a_i_n_t	Select+Play to shut down a Nano using the current build...huh?
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08:35:08	S_a_i_n_t	he calls it "the typical button combination"
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08:53:54	JdGordon	S_a_i_n_t: preemptive ping?
08:54:04	JdGordon	prob gonna have a patch needing testing in maybe 15min
08:55:13	S_a_i_n_t	yep, sure
08:56:12	JdGordon	I'm working on a clean way to make sure only the needed bars are drawn
08:56:29	S_a_i_n_t	Aha...sweet.
08:57:12	S_a_i_n_t	That should fix up %?pv and %bl in one fell swoop.
08:58:59	S_a_i_n_t	well, I imagine (in theory) that you'd be able to use one bar for -0dB and another for +0dB, then with a mute and a line-level image...the masses are happy ;)
09:00
09:00:21	S_a_i_n_t	but hopefully %pv\|blah.bmp\|-\|-\|-\|-\| will still draw the full range from min/max as it does in SVN now so I won't jave to change my code ;D
09:04:40	JdGordon	S_a_i_n_t: http://pastebin.com/yyhey9Kb
09:05:07	JdGordon	you shouldnt need any code changes after applying that
09:05:11	JdGordon	if you've done it right :)
09:05:28	JdGordon	that will also fix %pv\| inside conditionals
09:07:55	S_a_i_n_t	so, %pv\|blah.bmp\|-\|-\|-\|-\| (without conditions) will still 'just work'. and now I can use a bar inside coditionals and it knows its for X segment?
09:08:07	S_a_i_n_t	should be fun to play with...
09:08:10	JdGordon	no
09:08:31	JdGordon	I mean the thing pixelma was winging abnout last night, where %pv was inside a conditional but not a long form bar
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09:10:50	S_a_i_n_t	so, does the syntax change at all...no?
09:11:30	S_a_i_n_t	I'm not quite sure whats changed, I think I had issues with something different altogether.
09:13:22	JdGordon	2 fixes, pixelma's thing, and it always drawing the full bar even when you want the bar for the first 10%
09:13:35	JdGordon	(we need to come up with a better answer for that though :p )
09:15:30	S_a_i_n_t	aha...so it did fix the thing I had a cry about also.
09:16:12	JdGordon	hopefully
09:17:02	JdGordon	I dont have a complicated wps to test it on
09:17:39	S_a_i_n_t	neither do I...I have to make one ;) I stupidly binned that code that didn;t work last night facepalm
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09:31:40	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon: If its OK, and there's no immediate rush I may test this patch over the course of the night and get back to you in the morning?
09:32:21	S_a_i_n_t	I'm halfway there, just kinda busy right now. The wee small AM hours are geberally my time to shine ;)
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09:37:01	JdGordon	no worries
09:37:02	JdGordon	I might even get round to testing it myself :p
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09:59:34	pixelma	pointing out a bug - that a recent change broke a perfectly valid WPS is "winging"? Whatever that is... :\
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11:31:24	*	S_a_i_n_t atemps to go down the "progressbar route" to test this new patch, as opposed to working out a bunch of timy bars for the battery...
11:31:32	S_a_i_n_t	Battery will be "step two" ;)
11:31:44	S_a_i_n_t	*tiny
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11:36:01	JdGordon	you could use the same images for both...
11:38:52	S_a_i_n_t	progressbar will be easier to see if it works...I can use existing code then.
11:39:06	S_a_i_n_t	Working out viewport coords is what pisses me off ;)
11:39:39	S_a_i_n_t	I'm not far off a test-case, finishing it up now
11:39:42	S_a_i_n_t	*-ish
11:39:53	pixelma	can't you use your pastebinned code from yesterfay, or is there too much missing of the rest of the WPS?
11:40:03	pixelma	yesterday too
11:42:15	S_a_i_n_t	Blargh...I didn't think of that, ahh..I'm over the worst of it now ;)
11:42:15	*	JdGordon looks at screenshots in the forums and thinks it would be awesome to be able to use a bmp for the line selector (and/or a bmp for just the outer edge)
11:42:34	S_a_i_n_t	didn't I already ask for that?
11:42:57	JdGordon	did you?
11:43:05	S_a_i_n_t	My "other" want is .bmp scrollbar
11:43:09	pixelma	wasn't the problem with that 2 line heigh selector bars in some screens?
11:43:13	S_a_i_n_t	and yeah, pretty sure I have.
11:43:32	JdGordon	2 line is a problem, but meh, almost no screens use that
11:44:03	CIA-5	New commit by jethead71 (r25666): Threads of PRIORITY_REALTIME and above are no longer subject to being switched away based upon aging of lower priority threads. Now, recommend a ...
11:44:09	S_a_i_n_t	I've personally never seen a 2 line selector bar...huh, live & learn
11:45:33	pixelma	the ID3 info screen is an example
11:48:10	JdGordon	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SkinWishlist
11:50:25	emrecelikten	Does this rockboxdev.sh make any changes to gcc that is installed at my system, or does it make a separate installation?
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12:02:56	Torne	i hate the font cache :(
12:03:15	Torne	i can't conceive of a way to fix it to load fast that isn't a huge pain in the ass
12:03:28	CIA-5	New commit by jethead71 (r25667): Fix red from r25666 (forgot to use macro to not use core variable on single core), update a comment and remove core check for setting THREAD_SWITCH ...
12:03:50	JdGordon	Torne: use the cache file as an on-disk copy..
12:04:56	JdGordon	actually, is the order of gylphs specified? it might just make sense to reorder the glyphs in the standard bdf to put the usual ones together
12:05:02	JdGordon	(that may not make any sense)
12:05:11	Torne	the order is least-recently-used
12:05:25	JdGordon	s/bdf/fnt
12:05:31	Torne	which is excceptionally well randomised, from a loading POV :)
12:06:13	Torne	dumping the cache to disk as a file means you need one for each font when doing multifont, and you need to fix up some pointers and other foo. it's not impossible.
12:06:34	Torne	the way multifont works wrt. the cache is rather unfortunate
12:06:48	Torne	the cache is created based on the LRU order of the UI font
12:06:58	JdGordon	no, skin fonts dont load using the cache
12:07:01	JdGordon	IIRC
12:07:04	Torne	yes they do
12:07:11	Torne	otherwise they wouldnt work
12:07:21	Torne	you wouldn't be able to load a font larger than 10KB :)
12:07:32	Torne	which is most of hem.
12:07:36	JdGordon	I mean they dont check the cache file for which to load
12:07:40	Torne	yes they do
12:07:48	JdGordon	ok /me shuts up and heads out
12:07:56	Torne	whicch means it will overwrite the glyphs a bunch, as a bonus :(
12:08:19	Torne	since it will start with the least recently used and work forward
12:08:36	Torne	you'll end up with as many of the recently used glyphs as will fit but if the 60000 byte main cache was full.. you've now loaded 6 times as many glyphs as actually fit, rather wastefully
12:08:54	Torne	so for the skin fonts it's even worse :)
12:09:27	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon: that patch seems ok...I'm realy tired, so I didn't really put it through its paces, but the basic functionality of it seems to work.
12:09:32	Torne	(same amount of work, but upp to 5/6ths of tit is wasted)
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12:10:24	S_a_i_n_t	...and, it doesn't break using just "%pv\|blah.bmp\|-\|-\|-\|" either. So, it would seem that the masses are happy?
12:11:00	S_a_i_n_t	I'll put it through its paces some more once I figure out WTF my sims aren't building... >:[
12:11:15	S_a_i_n_t	(nothing to do with the patch I'm sure...)
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12:20:15	S_a_i_n_t	If something like multifont can apparently make that much difference to HDD target load times...than, I'm way happier with flash.
12:20:48	S_a_i_n_t	Some of my themes are calling 6/7 fonts, with 0 niticable load time increase.
12:21:02	S_a_i_n_t	*noticable
12:22:37	Torne	it's not multifont specifically
12:23:01	Torne	every font load that doesn't fit loads 5-30 times slower, depending on target :0
12:23:30	Torne	the maximum slowdown only appears to happen on ipod video with large drives, though
12:23:35	Torne	er, large sector
12:24:01	*	S_a_i_n_t hugs his army of flash targets ;)
12:24:14	Torne	it's probably 5 times slower on your flash targets, but the otriginal time is fast enough that five times slower is still quite fast
12:24:29	Torne	it might be, say, 50ms or so per font though
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14:02:37	S_a_i_n_t	Can someone please revert 25665? It seemed like a good idea at the time...but it only makes things worse.
14:05:02	gevaerts	preferably someone who understands the issues
14:05:06	*	gevaerts will not touch that
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14:12:50	S_a_i_n_t	it was a keybind which was supposed to be "better", but instaed, it just made it worse.
14:13:33	pixelma	S_a_i_n_t: how does it make things worse? It makes the combo work when you press play first then the other key
14:13:43	pixelma	(as you said you would prefer)
14:14:00	S_a_i_n_t	the idea sounded good, but, it just doesn't work...
14:14:43	S_a_i_n_t	it's kinda hard to describe, but only the play part gets registered, you never get a chance to actually hit select.
14:15:23	S_a_i_n_t	as, hitting play in the context menu drops straight back to the WPS
14:15:28	S_a_i_n_t	so, it doesn;t work.
14:15:38	S_a_i_n_t	I should have thought of that at the time.
14:17:38	S_a_i_n_t	it works a lot better to use the hotkey, but it's not impossibly to set one.
14:17:49	S_a_i_n_t	not? *now even
14:17:55	pixelma	that's probably the "cancel" action in the linked standard context that is hit then
14:17:57	S_a_i_n_t	and *impossible
14:19:25	pixelma	you could try if it gets better if you change the BUTTON_NONE on line 54 in the keymap file to BUTTON_PLAY too
14:20:00	pixelma	not sure at the moment though
14:20:18		Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection)
14:20:57	pixelma	it could also hit the "tree stop" action then
14:21:54	S_a_i_n_t	it doesn't seem to work to set the hotkey in either the file tree/wps context menus...at least with the old keymap, it was just hard to set (yet worked), in this keymap it is easy to use, yet impossible to set. :/
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14:27:45	kugel	S_a_i_n_t: maybe it should be "press select first, then play"?
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14:28:09	kugel	(a combo which works well on e200/fuze
14:29:56	S_a_i_n_t	kugel: yes, that should wouk actually...long select doesn't seem to trigger anything.
14:30:07	S_a_i_n_t	*in the context menus
14:30:20	S_a_i_n_t	and work even
14:31:07	S_a_i_n_t	the initial problem was having to press two buttons (still select and play) at exactly the same time.
14:31:39	pixelma	isn't the hotkey also (and primarily) used from the WPS? In which case long select triggers the context menu, if I see correctly
14:32:09	S_a_i_n_t	ahhhh...good point.
14:32:18	S_a_i_n_t	where were you last night pixelma ;)
14:32:29	S_a_i_n_t	so, it guess it has to be the way it is...
14:32:38	pixelma	so changing this, probably needs some "guarding" too
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14:32:42	S_a_i_n_t	err...the way it was
14:33:02	pixelma	I guess it's possible but needs a bit more thinking and trying ;)
14:33:06	S_a_i_n_t	pixelma: guarding?
14:33:32	kugel	long select+up works good on e200/fuze even in the wps
14:33:57	pixelma	in the keymap file - making sure that no other action is triggered before the one you want
14:34:38	S_a_i_n_t	well, I could only but try it (long menu+play) I mean
14:34:51	S_a_i_n_t	if it doesn;t work, it doesn't work I guess...
14:35:12	pixelma	kugel: don't forget that the Ipods have a few buttons less though :)
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14:36:14	S_a_i_n_t	that's the problem initailly...the fact that the ipod keymaps are so cramped up.
14:36:20	S_a_i_n_t	(because they have to be)
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14:48:48	pixelma	the problems due to "overlapping" actions and contexts can even be seen in a simulator, so it would be nice if people checked before such a commit
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14:49:29	S_a_i_n_t	now, since when do people do that?
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14:49:56	pixelma	seems to be a dying art :(
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14:50:13	gevaerts	I'd assume that people who suggest a keymap change have tested it
14:50:19	S_a_i_n_t	commit now, fix later seems to be the style of the time ;)
14:50:57	kugel	gevaerts: me too
14:51:12	S_a_i_n_t	we know what assumption gets then, don't we
14:51:20	*	pixelma is "old school" and usually tests, especially things like that
14:52:21	gevaerts	S_a_i_n_t: yes, it gets us to seriously consider just ignoring certain people
14:53:10	S_a_i_n_t	saying "yes, that should work" is hardly saying "I've looked at the keymap and considered it carefully, please run off and commit this"
14:53:24	S_a_i_n_t	besides, it was Blue_Dudes suggestion, not mine.
14:53:39		Quit shaggy-h (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:54:01	S_a_i_n_t	Him asking, can you test this patch (or not asking in fact) is now my fault?
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14:56:24	pixelma	my complaint was more directed at Blue_Dude (and some other that show this attitude)
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14:57:05	pixelma	"commit and let the users be the testers2
14:58:56	EK2	Hi Guys, I am new to rockbox and I am trying to compile it for my sansa clip+
15:00
15:00:52	EK2	When I call make I get he following error "/bin/sh: /home/eylonk/rockbox/tools/addtargetdir.pl: Permission denied" followed by other errors.
15:01:34	EK2	I see that all the .pl file are not with the executable permission, should I change them all?
15:02:21	bertrik	hm, I would have expected that this file already had executable permission when checked out from svn
15:02:37	gevaerts	EK2: that file should be exectutable already. How did you check out?
15:03:01	bertrik	property svn:executable is set on that file
15:03:22	EK2	I have checkedout at home using svn and ziped it and extracted at work.
15:04:07	gevaerts	your zip tool doesn't preserve executable bits then...
15:04:49	gevaerts	possibly svn revert might fix it
15:05:04	EK2	If it is only few files I can do it manually...
15:06:27	gevaerts	you can try
15:06:38	*	gevaerts doesn't know how many files are involved
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15:07:23	EK2	Thanks guys
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15:22:45	CIA-5	New commit by Blue_Dude (r25668): Revert r25665 - ipod keymap. More trouble than its worth
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15:23:33	Blue_Dude	Ipod keymap patch at FS #11208.
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15:27:37	kugel	that patch doesn't appear to change anything
15:32:30	S_a_i_n_t	no, it doesn't...does it.
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15:51:48	bertrik	Wasn't there a general rule that stuff in firmware/ should not refer to stuff in apps/ ?
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15:56:38	gevaerts	yes
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15:59:36	kugel	bertrik: did someone break that rule?
15:59:42	bertrik	I'm getting a bit confused by apps/playback.c, some functions from there are declared in firmware/export/audio.h and others in apps/playback.h
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16:00:25	bertrik	so firmware/export/audio.h refers to functions implemented in apps/playback.c
16:00:50	kugel	I noticed that too, I think they should be moved to playback.h
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16:55:17	Lixun	hi, here's Lixun. I am ready for GSOC interview.
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16:56:47	gevaerts	Lixun: hello! We'll be ready in a few minutes
16:56:56	Lixun	ok. no problem
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16:59:12	CIA-5	New commit by alle (r25669): Add the guard where it should be used. The net effect is zero now but it might be not in the future if the definitions are changed.
16:59:45	CIA-5	New commit by bertrik (r25670): Move audio_peek_track declaration from skin_display.c to audio.h
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17:24:42	CIA-5	New commit by bertrik (r25671): Use boolean instead of int for keeping track of mutex signalled state and wakeup signalled state
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17:41:57	emrecelikten1	Emre here, ready for the interview.
17:42:45	gevaerts	emrecelikten1: hello! We're still busy, I'll contact you when we're ready, probably in about 20 minutes
17:42:53	emrecelikten1	OK.
17:47:40	CIA-5	New commit by bertrik (r25672): Clean up IAP / ipod remote tuner a bit.
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17:52:53	CIA-5	New commit by bertrik (r25673): Correct svn:keywords on firmware/driver/tuner/ipod_remote_tuner.c
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17:58:06	saratoga	Lixun: while we can't give you training exactly, you are welcome to spend time in this channel and talk to us about audio programming
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18:58:35	CIA-5	New commit by bertrik (r25674): Sansa as3525: Add missing lcd-clip.h header file to sansa clip lcd drivers. Set svn:keywords on scrollwheel-as3525.c.
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19:21:48	CIA-5	New commit by bertrik (r25675): AS3525: set more svn properties
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19:35:12	Blue_Dude	bertrik: The problem with moving the audio.h declarations to playback.c is that those functions are supposed to work for both swcodec and hwcodec targets. Sometimes the audio.h functions point to playback.c and sometimes to mpeg.c. So maybe move parts of audio.h to apps.
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19:43:33	Blue_Dude	kugel, S_a_i_n_t: The purpose of the patch was to have a place to fool around with a keymap for ipods that would work. The first version was in error, since it wasn't synced to the reverted keymap. The next version could work better than the one committed yesterday since it moves the hotkey map further up and could prevent keypress conflicts. There's no way to know until you try it.
19:44:21	kugel	you can certainly determine behavior without trying
19:45:02	Blue_Dude	Not with a sim. Keypresses in the sim don't necessarily mirror the same ergonomics as on the device.
19:45:24	Blue_Dude	It can be very hard to get combos pressed the right way on a keyboard.
19:45:36	kugel	but the sim shows whether there's a fall through or not
19:46:15	Blue_Dude	Only if you can press the combo. And only if the sim reads keys the same way as on target. I don't know if that's true.
19:46:57	Blue_Dude	So only way to be sure is for an iPod user to buildit and try it.
19:47:02	kugel	have you tried it now or was that change a guess?
19:47:11	Blue_Dude	I don't have an iPod.
19:47:16	kugel	in the sim
19:47:32	Blue_Dude	No. Pressing that combo in the sim is a bear.
19:47:50	kugel	how can you know?
19:48:09	kugel	I think you should at least give it a try before saying stuff like this
19:48:31	Blue_Dude	The sim doesn't seem to clear the keypress when moving to a different screen. So if you don't release the keys immediately it repeats the keypress for another round.
19:48:51	Blue_Dude	kugel: I didn't want to enable hotkeys for other targets to begin with.
19:49:00	Blue_Dude	Not until they were tested.
19:49:39	kugel	this is currently about one (group of) target
19:49:58	Blue_Dude	So under pressure I made a best guess attempt based on existing keypresses and it turns out the stolen keypresses aren't always appropriate. What else can I do at that point than guess?
19:50:36	Blue_Dude	I can turn off ipods for hotkeys until they are fully tested. Which is what I wanted to do in the first place.
19:50:59	kugel	I'm not complaining about what you did initially, but I do find it strange that you're uploading that patch for a single target without giving it a try in the sim
19:52:08	kugel	also sims are nice for keymap things, I don't understand why you think it's the opposite
19:52:42	Blue_Dude	I'm not convinced the sim reads keys the same way as the target does.
19:53:11		Quit Strife89 (Quit: Changing OS.)
19:53:11	kugel	but you're not even trying
19:53:44	pixelma	action conflict can be seen in the sim, electrical or mechanical restrictions can not
19:53:47	Blue_Dude	I tried under the current keymap several times. And it's just very hard to time keys correctly.
19:53:53	pixelma	*conflicts
19:54:07	kugel	you seem to be denying the usefulness of sims based upon assumptions, and take that as an excuse for not trying your patches
19:54:54	kugel	gevaerts: my interview is starting soon?
19:55:08	Blue_Dude	The patch was an off the cuff "fix". I even said at the time that keymaps are easy to change, but very difficult to know what to change them to.
19:55:09	gevaerts	yes, don't worry, we're not forgetting you :)
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19:55:42	Blue_Dude	So should we turn off all non-tested targets now? That probably would be smart.
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19:56:33	gevaerts	Blue_Dude: I don't think that's needed. Just don't commit fixes for them if those fixes haven't been tested :)
19:57:42	Blue_Dude	You have a problem with me making quick commits. OK, guilty as charged. It won't happen again. But please therefore don't pressure me into committing something much bigger that hasn't been fully tested. Yesterday's "fix" was a much smaller sin in my opinion than switching on nearly every target untested.
19:58:40	kugel	it seemsyou misunderstood me
19:59:06	pixelma	Blue_Dude: I believe by the way that it can be disabled for the Iaudio M3 as it suffers the same restrictions as the other Iaudios (that you can't have button combos basically), but would like amiconn as the M3 porter to have a quick look
19:59:20	pixelma	(something you can't see in the sim ;) )
19:59:46	Blue_Dude	Anyway, I don't have time to hash it out now. I have to leave for work. I'll check the logs later.
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19:59:56	kugel	I don't have a problem with any of your commits, I just find it strange that your patch is completely untested because the amount of work needed to check the combo for a single target sim is very manageable
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20:12:34	CIA-5	New commit by bertrik (r25676): Clean up libmusepack: move declarations to internal.h and set svn properties.
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22:15:01	plauclair	does Rockbox do m4a/aac on the Fuze ?
22:15:05	plauclair	or in general
22:15:39	Llorean	plauclair: We do generally ask that you make at least a cursory reading of the manual and/or search of the site before asking questions in here.
22:16:20	plauclair	I did but couldn't find that specific info
22:16:47	plauclair	for the fuze, I might have looked a bit fast, sorry about that
22:16:49	Llorean	Funny, the first thing I find when I search Rockbox.org for AAC is a listing of the supported formats.
22:17:32	plauclair	ok, shame on me :)
22:18:13	Llorean	Generally, all formats are supported on every device (except some of the old Archoses, or when devices happen to be slower than usual for one reason or another)
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22:23:09	plauclair	I used to have an old D2, I really liked Rockbox on it.. I'm really looking forward to play with the new versions and hopefully maybe make some contributions to the great project :)
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22:30:45	amiconn	Regarding audio.h - it's completely okay for apps code to include firmware headers. The reverse is what's forbidden
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22:31:20	*	amiconn doesn't like what he's seen so far in the Elio ROM :\\
22:32:24	stripwax	amiconn - wanna spill the beans? gpl'd code? names addresses + telephone numbers? :)
22:32:43	amiconn	A colour target using the PP's mono lcd bridge
22:33:01	amiconn	The c200 (v1) also does that - but it's 132x80 while the Elio is 220x176
22:33:14	halmi	gevaerts: I'm available now.
22:33:19	amiconn	That means sloooow lcd updates even with optimised asm
22:34:41	stripwax	even slower than ipodvideo? / per pixel? (is ipodvideo slow because of the BCM in the way?)
22:34:55	amiconn	Ipod video is rather fast per pixel
22:35:14	amiconn	It's just a bit slow overall due to the huge display
22:35:18	stripwax	oh! haha, I just assumed it wasn't because of all the complaints. it's just that it has a lot of pixels.
22:35:30	amiconn	Coarse estimation for the Elio: <10fps
22:35:34	stripwax	ugh
22:36:13	amiconn	Well, maybe there are some trick yet unknown to me
22:36:18	amiconn	*tricks
22:37:03	stripwax	waaaay back when, I recall it being discussed that we're still using effectively 'a debug mode' to update the ipodvideo lcd - what did that mean exactly? (just that we're pumping raw data to the BCM, rather than DMA or something BCM-specific?)
22:38:09	stripwax	(which I think originally came from the fact that our lcd driver came from the ipod's debug/test app, rather than the full OF)
22:38:35	amiconn	Well, we're using the bcm in whatever mode it has been set up by the loader
22:38:57	amiconn	We cannot write our own code because it's a custom, undocumented architecture
22:39:51	amiconn	The lcd update used to be slower than it is now - since I've introduced asynchronous updates using a fixed update window, it's pretty okay
22:40:23	stripwax	true
22:41:19	amiconn	In fact ~15MPixels/s (that's ~30MByte/s) is one of the fastest update speeds among the PP targets
22:41:26	amiconn	100fps at 80MHz
22:41:59		Quit Barahir (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:42:01	funman	i remember seeing much higher numbers for e200v1
22:42:32	amiconn	Hence, "one of"
22:42:44	amiconn	e200v1 is approx. twice as fast, but then it uses dma
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22:42:57	stripwax	is BCM documentation $$ or NDA?
22:43:00	amiconn	(which we don't set up ourselves because we don't know how - we just use it)
22:43:13	stripwax	oh - that's interesting
22:43:43	stripwax	so we've probably got ipod lcd DMA available, in the OF, but not spent the time on that yet since the loader gives us something workable
22:43:54	stripwax	^ an unsubstaniated guess, of course
22:44:12	amiconn	Actually my estimation for the Elio was a bit pessimistic, because I remembered c200v1 speed wrong
22:44:37	amiconn	A better estimation says ~37fps at 80MHz
22:45:36	wodz	amiconn: Do You know what are interrupt vectors beyound 0x7c in coldfire 5249/50? I readed manual dozen of times and can't figure that out
22:45:39	amiconn	Yes - if we knew how to set up PP dma, iPod Video could probably be sped up further, but only for "ordinary" updates
22:45:52	stripwax	'ordinary' = ?
22:46:10	amiconn	ordinary == framebuffer -> lcd
22:46:19	amiconn	I.e. YUV blitting cannot be sped up that way
22:46:40	stripwax	could do YUV->framebuffer -> lcd ?
22:46:42		Quit efyx (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:46:52	amiconn	wodz: Many modules can set their interrupt vector. See the 5249/5250 manuals
22:47:08	amiconn	That would be slower than writing the yuv directly to the lcd
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22:47:36	stripwax	really? i thought framebuffer was in iram though
22:48:07	amiconn	(1) Framebuffer of the Video can't be in iram. Ever calculated the necessary size?
22:48:11	*	stripwax see YUV blit framerate on ipod 5.5g −− wow, why is that no better than c250?
22:48:31	stripwax	amiconn - hah. good point.
22:48:38	amiconn	(2) Even if it were - writing to IRAM and writing to the bcm are essentially the same speed. See?
22:49:09	amiconn	stripwax: Calculate c200 framerate * (13280) / (320240)
22:49:13	amiconn	What do you get?
22:49:36	stripwax	fair enough. i assumed they weren't, because of the lcd update code (that I'll be the first to admit I don't know nearly enough about) waiting on BCM flags
22:49:57	amiconn	Done? Right, 13.7 fps. You see the Video is faster - per pixel
22:50:04	wodz	amiconn: Thats true but generaly You have primary interrupt controller (compatibile with 5206) and secondary interrupt controller with aditional 64 interrupts.
22:50:39	stripwax	amiconn - no, I mean: c250 main lcd is 138.5fps, YUV is 100fps. 5.5g is 101fps, YUV is 30fps.
22:50:56	amiconn	Yes, because on the c200 the controller is the limiting factor
22:51:13	stripwax	oh. yeah, that makes sense now.
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22:51:21	amiconn	This means YUV conversion is almost for free, since it happens mostly during the time we have to wait for the controller anyway
22:51:43	stripwax	yep. I just realised. and BCM is fast enough that we don't really have any waiting time.
22:51:48	amiconn	On the Video it's the opposite - apart from setup and completion we don't have to wait at all
22:52:13	amiconn	(and completion is done asynchronously, monitored via an isr)
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22:57:36	amiconn	wodz: Yes, and? The secondary interrupt controller's interrupt are all autovectored - you can just set the base. But the primary interrupt controller's interrupts are not all autovectored - the respective module defines the vector
22:59:05	amiconn	The vectors can be set to an arbitrary 8 bit value
22:59:32	wodz	hmm.
22:59:55	wodz	ok comming back to manual
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23:07:40	wodz	aimconn: Thanks now I understand.
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23:12:33	wodz	amiconn: Regarding bad MPIO performance I tried to find out what's going on. The strange thing I found is that ui is pretty slow (I mean selecting items in main menu produce a few seconds delay). If I force breake in debugger during that delay I always end up in stop #0x2000 instruction comming from sleep_core()
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23:14:54	wodz	I don't understand this behaviour since manual breake is random so I should hit some function from time to time and not always stop.
23:18:05	amiconn	The probability depends on how frequently a certain code snippet is executed
23:18:47	amiconn	And 'stop' will put the cpu core to sleep until the next interrupt, so if there isn't much to do, it will sleep a lot
23:19:12	amiconn	It should not sleep often, if at all, when boosted though
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23:19:28	wodz	thats the point. Why there is not 'a lot to do
23:19:37	amiconn	If it does, there is a problem somewhere in the code
23:19:39	wodz	if there is ui activity
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23:28:31	chamunks	Would anyone be able to link me a more detailed explination as to why rockbox wont run on my 3rd gen classic 160gb slim?
23:31:33	linuxstb	chamunks: Simply because it's new hardware (compared to the ipods Rockbox does run on), and no-one has done the work to port Rockbox to that hardware. http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort will give you an idea of the work involved.
23:32:09		Quit merbanan (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
23:32:13	chamunks	linuxstb, thank you very much I appreciate it. :)
23:32:56		Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection)
23:34:00	chamunks	I wonder if there are any scans done of this hardware as I could supply some. I'm not a coder just would love to help any way that I can.
23:35:17	linuxstb	Coding is what's needed at this stage.
23:36:50	chamunks	Guess I'll have to wait on switching to flac till another day. I heard that the amp on the ipod's arent really good enough for flac anyways.
23:41:44		Quit M3DLG (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
23:44:20	sinthetek	what kind of coding?
23:44:35	sinthetek	assign me something
23:49:00		Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
23:49:07	chamunks	Shhh dont get my hopes up :P I'd love nothing more than to be able to switch away from mp3v0's
23:50:48	funman	sinthetek: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort
23:53:32	bertrik	oh, I thought it was hard encryption that blocked a rockbox port
23:54:30	linuxstb	bertrik: The DFU mode has been exploited, so we can execute code on it. Also, TheSeven has ported his "iBugger" debugger, so code can then be uploaded (and RAM contents downloaded) via USB.
23:55:16	gevaerts	No known way to have rockbox boot without DFU I think though
23:55:52	linuxstb	IIUC, the boot ROM can be dumped via iBugger (it's memory-mapped), but the NOR is accessed over SPI, so a driver for that needs to be written, and the NOR dumped (and probably decrypted). So it's still at the very early reverse-engineering stages.
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