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#rockbox log for 2010-04-22

00:02:28*jhMikeS sees the yield rate jump as high as 32000 when rebuffering starts
00:02:32jhMikeSon player
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01:11:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:18:33qfrHmm is there some way you don't have to select "Resume playback" every time you boot the player?
02:18:43qfrI didn't find anything in the playback settings
02:20:27pixelmaset your start screen to WPS
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02:26:03qfrpixelma hmm I haven't found it on my own yet
02:26:25qfrWhat settings category is it in?
02:27:02qfrAh I got it I think
02:27:30qfrFabulous, it works, thanks a lot
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03:15:16ggbattery life seems bad. ipod video 30gb. any setup tips?
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03:30:30TexasRockbox1) Brightness=1 2) If using Rockbox as a file browser then Dircache=On 3) Decrease the amount of time the ipod backlight is on 4) Set the antiskip buffer to 5sec
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03:33:19TexasRockboxDoes anyone know where in the code the filter for filetypes are stored/executed. I've looked through a lot of code and just can't seem to find where these files are determined/defined.
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03:48:15n1sgg: the manual actually has a new section dealing with optimizing your battery runtime
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04:24:48RandomInsanoI removed the flash daughterboard from my Telechips based DAP and don't know if it considers itself in 'USB Boot Mode'. Any telltale signs it's in boot mode?
04:26:37RandomInsanotcctool certainly doesn't find it in FreeBSD
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04:40:54n1sline 1132 of plugins/imageviewer/png/png.c looks bogud to me, it's assigning to decoder->infoPng.background_g twice and not to decoder->infoPng.background_b which would seem the logical thing to do, anyone familiar with this?
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04:41:33RandomInsanoSeems it is in boot mode. tcctool in windows picks it up just fine.
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04:53:14RandomInsanoMy Telechips device isn't in the tcc.inf file for the tcc driver on windows. Can I make the needed change in SVN? Do I need an account?
04:53:40RandomInsanoI can even supply the updated inf file which works on my system.
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04:59:42hobbsn1s: two things strike me: one, that it's probably even wronger than that, since it's assigning a palette index to r/g/b values; and two, it doesn't look like anything is using the data anyway.
05:00:05hobbsn1s: proposed fix:
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05:00:35hobbs(PNG spec promises that bKGD follows PLTE in a paletted image, so the pallete will be initialized)
05:02:37n1shobbs: you obviously know more about png than me, so commit?
05:03:04hobbsI don't have commit bits, I'm just zis guy
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05:04:08n1saha, i gtg now, but will look later then, any good way to test that its correct?
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05:04:57hobbslike I said I don't think anything anywhere even reads those values
05:05:07hobbsso... it compiles, and it's correct in my head, but no test :)
05:05:25n1sheh, ok
05:05:50*S_a_i_n_t experienced on his Nano1g as well, using r25679. This revision absolutely *will not* run Doom & Doom 2 WADs yet FreeDoom appears to be fine.
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05:06:26S_a_i_n_tAttempting to run Doom fragged my filesystem in an amusing, hillarious, and very annoying way.
05:07:30S_a_i_n_tIt made the database init splash read "Moving Phopaq ((((((("
05:07:56S_a_i_n_tthe "shutting down" splash was equally weird.
05:11:03S_a_i_n_tAnd every so often there is just one letter out of place in a word, and the letter that is out of place is always the next in sequence following alphabetical's just, weird. "Files" reads "Filep" and so on, but going to another screen and back seems to change the typos, thier location etc. Sometimes it seems fine, then other times the database will constantly ask to be initialised, take ages to do so -
05:11:33S_a_i_n_t- then when it finally finishes, all the .TCD files are corrupt with garbled names...
05:11:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:11:42S_a_i_n_tIt was just, weird.
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09:02:14JdGordonas sucky as this sounds, I'm thinking about pulling the playlist viewr (WPS) out of svn
09:02:44JdGordonunless someone comes up with what might be casuing the bug :(
09:06:36ZagorJdGordon: how does removing it help anything?
09:06:59JdGordonusing it breaks playback on target
09:07:25JdGordonit unfortunatly works fine in the sim which makes this very hard to figure out
09:07:36Zagoroh, you meant "disable it" rather than "remove it from svn"?
09:07:54JdGordonno, I mean delete the code
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09:08:35ZagorI don't see how deleting the code does anything good. unless it is a feature we will never want.
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09:10:18Zagorif the code doesn't work yet, disable it from the builds. but if we still want the feature, leave the code for later debugging.
09:10:24JdGordonit looks like it somehow manages to lockup the playback/buffering thread. USB connect still works so..
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09:11:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:13:09amiconnDoes that happen on hwcodec as well?
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09:14:06wodzjdGordon: As I worote earlier I can look at this issue with BDM/gdb
09:14:29JdGordonoh? that would be sweet
09:15:07JdGordonah, I somehow missed your reply
09:15:15wodzbut I know nothing about this code
09:15:55wodzwe can arrange irc session when I will be at work and have my target in front of mee
09:16:06pixelmayou'll need a WPS that has it for the Mpio's 128x128 greyscale screen
09:16:12pixelma(I guess)
09:16:35*amiconn wanted to suggest gdb too
09:16:52wodzdoesn't JdGordon posted wps that triggers the problem to the list?
09:17:04JdGordonI'll reply to the mailling list with a wps that will work on any target
09:18:00JdGordonits either playlist.c (unlikely) or playback/buffering.c (slightly less unlickly).... I'm stuck
09:18:13pixelmawodz: usually WPSs are display size dependent. You can make one that works on every size I guess though
09:19:39wodzok I have to digg in some rb unrelated code now.
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09:20:36wodzjdGordon: If You are interested I will ping You when I'll have my device at hand
09:21:15JdGordonplease :)
09:21:19amiconnJdGordon: Do you know on which target archs that happens?
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09:21:34amiconnSince it doesn't happen in the sim, it might also be architecture dependent
09:22:00JdGordonI've only tested PP, I couldnt repro on my mini2g but easy to repro on vid
09:22:14JdGordonit was reported on e200 also i tihnk
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09:22:47pixelmagevaerts tested a bit and I asked him to try coldfire and he wanted to but I don't know if he did
09:24:01JdGordonI've #if 0'd out the code touching playback, so it must be playlist_peek()... but..
09:24:24amiconnHmm, on video but not on minig2? That's the same cpu...
09:24:55amiconnMaybe it's colour vs. non-colour?
09:25:20wodzit would be nice if someone confirm this on coldfire *before* we start debugging with BDM/gdb
09:25:27pixelmathen wodz' BDM won't help
09:25:36JdGordonthe wps isnt locking up so I highly doubt its the drawing code
09:26:20*pixelma could possibly try on M5 (coldfire, grey) and c200 (pp, colour) but needs a bit time to set up a test.wps
09:26:41pixelmamaybe during lunch break or so
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09:28:42pixelmacould it also be a timing issue?
09:29:26JdGordonmaybe. my mini2g is CF'ed which could be enough to stop it
09:29:33JdGordonI've attached a wps to the mailng list
09:30:29pixelmaare other settings the same (like dircache or so)?
09:31:10JdGordondircache is off on the vid
09:32:33JdGordonshite! enabling dircache fixes it!
09:32:41JdGordonw=hat the hell?
09:34:02JdGordonthis probably means there is a bug in get_Filename() in playlist.c.. specifically where it waits for the mutex to touch the filenames array
09:35:25JdGordonwhich makes sense. the WPS is displayed while buffering is also trying to get the filenames to buffer. buffering calls get_filename() which has the lock, context switch waiting for disk access, wps tries to get the lock == deadlock
09:35:51JdGordonlots of disk access while holding that lock
09:36:49JdGordondircache avoids this because when enabled that goes through a slightly different code path (avoids the lock if it can)
09:38:38JdGordonmutex_lock() would block if someone else has it right?
09:38:49 Quit jfc (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
09:39:11Zagorthat is the idea, yes :)
09:39:28JdGordonso all that does make for a plausable reason?
09:39:36 Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
09:40:39ZagorI'm afraid I don't know that code enough to say
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09:45:41JdGordonplaylist.c is not thread safe at all!
09:46:41JdGordonok, maybe a bit of an exaguration
09:49:25*JdGordon misread... that mutex isnt being hit (although it could be hit with a m3u playlist and not dirplay...)
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10:11:20ZlasherIs it anyway to remove the ipod os (ipod 30GB) so it dosn't dualboot all the time?
10:14:41linuxstbZlasher: You could use "ipodpatcher -wf rockbox.ipod" to replace the apple firmware and Rockbox bootloader with just Rockbox. You need to run that every time you install a new version of Rockbox though.
10:15:07linuxstb has descriptions of the advanced usage of ipodpatcher for this sort of thing
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10:16:02Zlasherlinuxstb: Dosn't sound to inconvinent :-)
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10:16:54linuxstbIt should also boot slightly faster, as it's not loading (and then overwriting) the Apple firmware.
10:18:55linuxstbZlasher: BTW, if you hadn't worked it out, my suggestion was 4) on that page.
10:22:32ZlasherThanks. I reformated my ipod and now it's in constant reboot (nothing with the bootloader to do)
10:27:24linuxstbDo you mean the Rockbox bootloader reboots? Or the initial Apple bootloader? Did you reformat the entire ipod (i.e. removing the firmware partition) ?
10:29:40ZlasherThe Apple bootload, just the data partition. Fixed now, booted to disk mode and are formating again
10:30:33ZlasherIs't sane to fomat he firmare partition? since I won't use the apple OS anymore?
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10:31:04CIA-5New commit by pamaury (r25696): ata-sd-pp: reduce size of the buffer used to switch bank, no functional change intended.
10:31:11CIA-5New commit by pamaury (r25697): dircache: increase stack size to handle the worse case path during rebuild (dircache->fat->ata-sd-pp+sdhc) and allows directory with depth up to 20 ...
10:32:51gevaertsZlasher: the Apple ROM code looks for a specific format on disk. You can't really change that
10:33:56Zlashergevaerts: Ok
10:37:05pamaurygevaerts: did you/could you have a look at my usb code on github and give some feedback about the old/new api handling ?
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11:11:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:32:58gevaertspamaury: I had a quick look at it, but it's not easy to examine such a big patch. How much work would it be to isolate the API bits from the new drivers, and ideally even of the isochronous implementation in ARC?
11:34:19pamaurygevaerts: Yes that's true, but I think the last commit gives a good idea. I don't understand what you mean by "isolate the API bits from the new drivers"
11:35:01gevaertspamaury: I mean it would be nice to have a patch with *just* the new API (and of course the new/old preprocessor magic)
11:35:31pamauryAh, not too much work, I mean compared to what I already did :)
11:35:57gevaertsI think it would be nice if that also went to svn as a separate commit
11:36:53pamauryalso, another question. I changed lots of thing in the usb-arc driver, do we keep two separate versions of it (old api, new api) ? Or emulate the old api with the new one ? Or directly make usb drivers aware of the new api ?
11:37:17gevaertsupdate the drivers I think
11:37:26pamauryyes, currently I took the last approach
11:37:57pamauryWhat would simplify things a lot would be a first step to go to a blocking/nonblocking
11:38:37pamauryAnd also add a buffer parameter to completion handler
11:39:22gevaertsyes, that would be a good (and I hope noncontroversial) first step
11:39:40pamauryYes, but the problem is that the old api doesn't have the blocking receive
11:40:17pamauryI can be implementing at the driver level for some or emulated at the core level I think (it's more complicated though)
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12:27:39*GodEater wonders what to do with the PM he's just been sent on the forums : "Is it okay to use the illustration of the scheduler and maybe the logo of Rockbox i a university task, if we write that, we were allowed to use it by a administrator form Rockbox?"
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12:27:52GodEaterwhat scheduler is he talking about?
12:30:19 Quit xiainx (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
12:30:53gevaertsGodEater: he's been posting that to various random threads too
12:31:07GodEaterI was just going to say that since it's all GPL'd he can use it wherever he likes, provided he cites where he got it from?
12:31:29 Quit JdGordon_ (Client Quit)
12:31:38GodEatergevaerts: did someone else already reply then?
12:31:41gevaertsnot me
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12:35:01GodEaterwow - so he has
12:35:06*GodEater goes mad with the delete key
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12:58:00n1shobbs: you got a Real Name (tm) ?
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13:11:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:12:42linuxstbGodEater: I don't know if you've replied, but I would just point him to the GPL and tell him that's the terms under which he can use Rockbox source code. I don't know if we've explicitly licensed the logo...
13:12:58pixelmaI noticed yesterday that the start screen description in the manual is not complete at all (maybe not been update after a change or so). It would be nice if someone could have a look and improve what I have so far. The started patch is here: and I'm not too happy with phrasing yet, so maybe someone could help out a bit, especially comments by native speakers are welcome. Thanks :)
13:13:18GodEaterlinuxstb: already replied
13:14:55linuxstbGodEater: In the forum, or as a PM?
13:15:50JdGordonspeaking of start screen... why the heck is do you have to go into the wps to autostart audio?
13:18:36TorneJdGordon: because root_menu already has resume playback as an optoin
13:18:51Torneso it's easier to make that a possible start screen ;)
13:19:39JdGordonsure, blame code I wrote for that :p
13:20:08gevaertsJdGordon: so why again did you ask? ;)
13:20:25JdGordonbecause that's not really a good enough reason
13:20:33wodzjdGordon: I loaded plv.wps and sort order is correct
13:20:41JdGordondircache off?
13:21:04pixelmaI don't understand the question fully by the way
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13:22:02b0hoonpixelma: ping
13:22:15wodzwhere is this setting?
13:22:42pixelmab0hoon: pong
13:22:44wodzok found
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13:23:08pixelmawodz: should by in the system options somewhere (disk or so)
13:23:17b0hoonpixelma: could you look at the xobox.tex, line 18, please?
13:23:51b0hoonpixelma: it is a bug i think, but it is treated normally :S, at least for the iriver
13:23:53wodzoo interesting selecting again first file in dir I have 1,5,2,... and after few seconds it reorders
13:24:21JdGordona few seconds?! how slow is the disk?
13:24:31wodzit is CF so rather slow
13:24:35JdGordonthat is a known subtly bug which I havnt done anything about yet
13:25:09JdGordonso this is no repro on CF?
13:26:33wodzbut titles are not correct (but maybe this is id tags problem)
13:26:51*JdGordon continues to be baffled
13:27:00JdGordondircache off on my mini2g and no repro either
13:27:16wodzno there is something wrong - I do have id tags set
13:27:35wodzand half of files are displayed with tagged name and half with filename
13:27:41JdGordonthat is expected
13:27:53JdGordonthe filename is shown when the track hasnt been buffered at all
13:28:08wodzso no sorting problem here
13:28:20pixelmab0hoon: left and right are missing from the MRobe100 manual, yes. It's a bug in line 19 (I wondered first until you mentioned Iriver :) )
13:29:01pixelmaseems always to apply to the first in the wrong "selection"
13:29:10b0hoonpixelma: ups, sorry line 19 indeed
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13:30:41JdGordonwodz: how are you starting playback?
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13:31:05wodzentering dir and selecting first file
13:31:22b0hoonpixelma: and what about Solution Playback section in the sokoban? Is it deprecated or something? Or i don't understand something?
13:34:21n1spixelma: your patch looks good to me overall, i'd drop the "will" from the settings and go for "start in foo screen", also a typo in the file browser description
13:35:48pixelmab0hoon: it was existent last I looked, can't remember what the trick was though
13:36:23b0hoonpixelma: yeah, i mean where is it? i coudn't get it for my ipod video for example...
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13:36:54pixelman1s: the "will" was mostly from the old description (and so I chose it for some of mine too), maybe you are right
13:37:08b0hoonpixelma: the same for the snake2, looks like the instructions are for an old menu.
13:38:25n1sit's just a style thing, afaik neither is more correct
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13:46:29Antibuddhahas 240gb and 36K+ files been implemented into rockbox for ipod?
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13:48:37linuxstbAntibuddha: For 240GB disks, you need a "current build" of Rockbox (not 3.5.1). You will also need an as-yet unreleased bootloader (see the forums for links. I think).
13:48:38n1sAntibuddha: lba48 support is implemented, yes, you do need an unofficial build of the bootloader though (from the clean svn source)
13:48:47Antibuddhaok ty
13:49:04Zagornano2g doesn't have lba48 :)
13:50:01n1si dunno about any number of files limit
13:50:01n1sZagor: i doubt i can handle a disk too :)
13:50:22Zagorwe only care about number of files per dir, not total
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13:51:39linuxstbPlus number of files in a playlist?
13:51:46Zagorright, that too
13:52:03ZagorI assume the id3 database doesn't have an arbitrary limit?
13:52:31*linuxstb has no idea
13:52:33JdGordonis the disk size for the db files considered an arbitrary limit?
13:52:52n1szagor, i think it has a max memory usage limit if loaded to ram at least
13:53:04Antibuddhaok i downloaded the test bootloader and ipodpatcher
13:53:20ZagorJdGordon: I'd call that a physical limit
13:53:21Antibuddhawhat is the current build thing i need? is it
13:53:42linuxstbYes, assuming your ipod video has 64MB RAM.
13:55:13Antibuddhaok i'm going to go pick up the ipod from the post office
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14:14:06pamaurywhy is there "#define CONFIG_USBOTG USBOTG_ARC" in sansacliplus.h ?
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14:21:43kugelJdGordon: if you're speaking of the 6MB limit, it's an arbitary limit AFAIK
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14:31:38Zagorkugel: is there a 6MB *file size* limit?
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14:32:03funmanpamaury: copy/pasting, i think what CONFIG_USBOTG is defined to doesn't matter at this point
14:32:06ZagorI misread JdGordon
14:32:45kugelmaybe I'm confusing it with dircache, but one of them artificially limits itself to 6MB
14:32:47pamauryfunman: does someone know how to test usb connection on clip+ ?
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14:38:35pamauryI'm trying to figure out from the linux patch but quite unsuccessfully currently :(
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14:40:10JdGordonZagor: I dont tihnk you did... I didnt know about that, although i tinhk the 6MB limit is dircache not database
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14:44:18pamauryyeah, I like the linux patch: "refer to task_control.c" but it doesn't exist !
14:48:19pamauryhaha, I think I got it
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15:02:26pamauryAre C struct bit fields ordered from most signicant bit to least signicant bit ?
15:05:07kugelthat's probably undefined
15:05:15Zagorkugel: correct
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15:06:26pamauryok, based on the code I would say yes for gcc, assuming the developper use a sensical convention
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15:10:45kugelpamaury: it's in fact implementation-defined behavior
15:11:33pamauryyes I know but the dev of the linux patch seem to think it's well defined, at least for gcc for arm
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15:17:14wodzis there any progress in commiting mpio port to svn?
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15:31:16pamauryfunman: can I prevent database rebuilding in the OF of the clip+ ?
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15:33:47FlynDicepamaury: no you can't. Removing the uSD shortens it though....
15:34:41pamaurythat's a shame :(
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15:46:22kugelpamaury: the principle is to not put stuff on the internal memory as long as you're often updating rockbox :)
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15:47:09pamaurykugel: I simply renamed MUSIC to _MUSIC so the OF doesn't scan it :)
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15:49:36kugelpamaury: the OF scans everything AFAIK
15:50:07kugelI'm quite sure it does, because all my music is in "Musik"
15:51:53pamaurythen it worked for me five minutes ago but perhaps it was by chance
15:52:13pamauryah yes you're right :(
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17:11:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:25:01S_a_i_n_tAh, before I forget again...I was having a conversation with Torne about unclean shutdowns leaving legacy/residue items drawn on the screen, and how it shouldn't be possible. I've found I can reproduce an unclean shutdown consistently when using this .sbs if I turn the iPod on, then turn it off within a minute or so. It also happens on other odd occasions, but I have only found this one way I can reproduce far.
17:25:08S_a_i_n_tThe .sbs is here
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18:28:11*bertrik is surprised to see sizeof without parentheses in rockbox code, but no compiler error/warning
18:28:42bertrikI'm not saying it's bad, just not something I remember seeing before
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18:37:09bug2000Sansa Clip got a new firmware, should I bother to upgrade it?
18:38:27kugelbug2000: not if you're using rockbox exclusively (and the OF only for USB)
18:38:57bug2000kugel: I don't use rockbox exclusively. I use OF for USB, Recording & Podcasts / Audiobooks.
18:39:04Tornebertrik: sizeof is an operator, not a function; it doesn't need parens
18:39:32kugelyou do if you use it with structs, dont you?
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18:40:12Torneyou need it sometimes in certain constructs, yes, but that's no different to any other operator
18:40:17kugelbug2000: An OF upgrade will remove the rb bootloader, and i don't know whether the installation tools already support that of
18:41:15bug2000kugel: So it's not 100% I can create a new rb bootloader? heh. I guess I can wait.
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18:43:11kugelbug2000: you can try it, the installers will fail if the OF version is unknown
18:43:31bertrikIIRC, the .35 version was added by funman
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19:04:09S_a_i_n_tTorne: Do you remember that discussion we had re: unclean shutdown/legacy items left on the screen?
19:04:15Torneyes, i saw your comment
19:04:25Tornei don't particularly want to look into it though :)
19:04:30Tornei have so far stayed out of the actual UI code ;)
19:04:32S_a_i_n_tI managed to find a way to do it consistently, seems to be something to do with the .sbs
19:05:17S_a_i_n_tFair enough, just wanted to pop in and say that "yes, I can reproduce it, so...I'm not insane" ;)
19:07:13S_a_i_n_tAnd yes, the UI code seems to be an easy way to take a quick trip to a headache.
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19:09:19webguest36Hey, Is it okay to use the illustration of the scheduler and maybe the logo of Rockbox i a university task, if we write that, we were allowed to use it by a administrator form Rockbox?
19:09:31webguest36What would you say?
19:10:47S_a_i_n_twebguest36: I'm reasonably confident you can use the images without consent.
19:10:49pixelmawhat do you mean by illustration of the scheduler?
19:11:14S_a_i_n_tWell, depending on how they're used I guess ;)
19:11:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:11:52webguest36The scheduler is here:
19:12:04 Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
19:12:55webguest36Zagor told me: Sure, that's fine.
19:13:13 Quit n1s (Quit: Lämnar)
19:13:17bug2000kugel / bertrik: seems like it can patch. I'll try it in a moment.
19:13:36webguest36Godeater told me: Thanks for asking - but you don't really need to! Basically since the Rockbox logo is held in our source code repository, and all our source code is GPL - you're free to use it wherever you like, as long as you cite where you got it from - you don't really need "permission".
19:13:44S_a_i_n_tYes, well...I don;t see why it wouldn't. Kudos for checking forst though.
19:13:59S_a_i_n_t*first even
19:14:49webguest36XaiverGr told me: I think it would be ok, (attributing proper credits of course) but for a final permission you should ask some developers on the Rockbox IRC channel. They should be able to give you a final say.
19:15:24S_a_i_n_tWell, trust GodEater on that. He is quite correct.
19:15:47webguest36And would you like to see the poster before I send it in?
19:16:02webguest36Or is it ok
19:16:27S_a_i_n_tIt should be fine.
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19:16:38webguest36Thanks.. :-D
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19:16:49S_a_i_n_tAs long as there are no "Rockbox Sucks" banners that go with it ;)
19:17:41webguest36No no only good vibes.. :-)
19:18:19S_a_i_n_tSweet, perhaps put a plug in for "" somewhere ;)
19:18:25S_a_i_n_tIt all helps ;)
19:18:46webguest36It is there.
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19:19:40S_a_i_n_twebguest36: What is the project? Do you mind me asking?
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19:21:20*linuxstb wonders what the license is for the content of the Rockbox wiki
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19:31:10webguest36It is for a poster. We have to make a poster in the Parallel and real-time systems course.
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19:33:24webguest36I put it in as my profil picture, but it is very small
19:34:00S_a_i_n_tSweet, thanks...
19:35:01webguest36And it is in danish S_A_I_N_T :-/
19:38:02webguest36I do not know were to upload it, so you can see it in full size, it is in A2. S_A_I_N_T
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19:45:50Antibuddhamy ipod just got stuck saying "unsupported physical sector size: 4096
19:46:13Antibuddhai just put in the 240gb mk2431gah and used current build, ipod patcher and bootloader
19:46:26linuxstbAntibuddha: Then you didn't install either the test bootloader or a Rockbox current build, depending on what is giving you that error.
19:46:29Antibuddhanow do i hard reset it or something? its stuck saying unsupported
19:46:46linuxstbHold MENU+SELECT to reboot, then immediately press and hold SELECT+PLAY
19:46:55linuxstbThat puts the ipod in disk mode.
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19:49:13Antibuddhastrange it was working ifne
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19:49:25Antibuddhabut after turning it off and turning back up windows wants to format it again
19:50:52pixelmais there no British English native speaker around wanting to help with the manual (or reading the logs)?
19:51:11*linuxstb reads the logs...
19:51:50linuxstbpixelma: Can you give me a clue?
19:52:36bertrikbug2000, I have a clip (v1) too, but haven't tried the new firmware/rockbox bootloader
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19:53:10*pixelma points linuxstb to 13:13 in today's logs
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19:57:28funmanbug2000: you mean Clip OF v01.01.35 ?
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20:01:36kugelwebguest36: I updated RockboxKernel a bit
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20:10:47linuxstbpixelma: I've been thinking about it, and I'm wondering if there is a need for a fuller description? It all seems to be stating the obvious (apart perhaps from the "resume playback" option). Would it be technically correct to say that the behaviour is the same as if the user immediately selected that option from the main menu when Rockbox starts?
20:11:21 Quit Zambezi (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20:11:41linuxstbBagder: Do you know if the contents of the Rockbox wiki has a license? I can't see reference to one anywhere obvious.
20:11:58Bagderno it doesn't, one of those mistakes we've never fixed...
20:12:18*linuxstb shuts up then ;)
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20:26:50pixelmalinuxstb: hmm... at least I like an up to date list and then just a list looks weird (I think)
20:29:00linuxstbpixelma: I guess I'm thinking like a programmer - to see the up to date list, just choose that option in Rockbox ;) The more you document, the more documentation you have to maintain....
20:29:15linuxstbBut I have made a few corrections/changes to your text...
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20:30:42linuxstbIs there a reason for the "."s in the item names? Is that how they appear on-screen?
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20:54:36*Llorean just had an idea for "visual language files."
20:54:45LloreanFor themeing, more or less.
20:55:14S_a_i_n_tHow will this benefit the project? ;)
20:55:17LloreanA lot of people want "graphical" themes. Maybe something along being able to associate language strings with an image that will take their place if present.
20:56:14LloreanSince the UI is getting quite customizable anyway, rather than "new UI" ideas, maybe the focus should be on coming up with new ways to present the existing information within the UI. Layout is affect a lot, but the assumption is still more or less "and then we show them the string, and the icon next to it"
20:56:38LloreanBut voice files present that information as sound.
20:59:34LloreanBasically, allow themers to replace *any* language string with a referenced image within one large bitmap file (like a sprite sheet for old style games) or load small bitmap files (provides some delay on loading, especially on disk targets, but allows very large/complex themes without eating all of the RAM, maybe an LRU cache for them similar to fonts) so that things like splashes or yes/no screen could be customized more in themes.
21:00:17gevaertsI don't see how you'd do it in the code
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21:01:51Lloreangevaerts: Doesn't necessarily concern me if you can't. I was just thinking on all the "new UI" proposals, and thinking that a lot of them are about different visual presentation of data.
21:02:29LloreanNew lists (multiple columns, advancing by pages or fixed amounts, etc) would go a long way to that, but everyone seems to want large icons too.
21:02:58gevaertsLlorean: I'm sure it will concern you if nobody can :)
21:03:03gevaertsWe're not there yet of course
21:03:22 Part watto
21:03:22LloreanNah, it's not a feature I want, so it doesn't concern me if nobody can.
21:03:32S_a_i_n_tI've been thinking on making a larger "stock" iconset for a while now...would it be worthwhile doing so?
21:03:48LloreanIt's just an idea I had for another way to present flexibility to users that might allow less obvious impact for people not using it
21:04:15LloreanS_a_i_n_t: Like, icons the same size as the characters used in larger font default themes?
21:04:41S_a_i_n_tFor some targets, I imagine the icons would seem to be rather tiny.
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21:05:05LloreanIsn't the default icon set just scaled down icons from some well known open source icon set (tango or similar?)
21:05:21LloreanI imagine new icons would be welcome, but the ideal would be to just use the same original fullsize icons, scaled to the new sizes.
21:05:27S_a_i_n_tI was thinking mabe 15X15px/16x16px
21:05:27S_a_i_n_taround there.
21:05:32S_a_i_n_tIIRC they are 12px ATM
21:06:50pixelmayes, tango icons except on the smallest displays where the old monochrome ones are used
21:06:53S_a_i_n_tSo...what we're saying here, is that .bmp scaling for .icons would be useful?
21:07:04*S_a_i_n_t wondeers if he could pull that off.
21:07:15S_a_i_n_t*wonders also
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21:08:03S_a_i_n_tWell, in the interim, I will churn out a set of larger icons if they'll actually get used.
21:08:27S_a_i_n_tAnd think about how to implement .bmp scaling for the icons (probably a nightmare)
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21:08:55LloreanWe're not saying that .bmp scaling would make sense
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21:09:06LloreanJust finding the originals and making new .bmps of them scaled to the appropriate sizes
21:09:14LloreanIt'll look much nicer and cleaner that way.
21:09:19EricEinemCould someone add me, EricEinem, to the WikiUsers group? I'm new to RockBox and am interested in working on enhancements.
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21:10:35S_a_i_n_tso, hit me with some size sugestions 12px is current IIRC, so 16px, 18px, 20px?
21:10:43S_a_i_n_tHow large should I bother going?
21:11:25LloreanI would say using the exact same height as the font is probably best.
21:11:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:12:12S_a_i_n_tRighto, I'll look into the default font sizes for the larger screen targets and start from there.
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21:13:20pixelmathe greyscale variant looks still badly scaled
21:14:04pixelmaespecially colour wise. I believe you really have to rework them by hand and not let a program do it
21:14:23S_a_i_n_tpixelma: yes, this is true.
21:14:37S_a_i_n_tIts painstaking...but needs to be done by hand for the most part.
21:14:48rockbox|domonokyEricEinem: done
21:14:48pixelmacolour wise in the sense of posterizing to the 4 shades
21:17:36pixelmalinuxstb: thanks for your input and help. Just stating "see the options for an up-to-date list" is questioning quite some parts of the manual though
21:18:17linuxstbpixelma: Yes, as I said, I'm talking as a programmer, not as a manual writer...
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21:24:02pixelmaoh well. The "."s appear on the screen yes, I usually just try to keep the current style. In the PDF the items appear just in bold and the explanation follows on the same line, so I always assumed the periods where there as another "item name stops here" sign, I *believe* that the explanation is on the line below in the HTML version though. I should also check if we have a rule for this, haven't done it so far
21:24:15pixelmalinuxstb ^
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21:26:18linuxstbpixelma: By "on-screen" I meant "on your \dap{}'s screen"
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21:26:51linuxstbi.e. in Rockbox
21:26:53pixelmaah, you improved the WPS line. It was there before and I didn't take the time to think of something better yet :)
21:27:51pixelmalinuxstb: then no, I don't think so.
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21:28:42pixelmaI can't think of a single sentence style - with or without period on Rockbox's menus
21:30:06linuxstbpixelma: No, nor can I. That's why it looked odd to me in your patch. But if that's how the rest of the manual does it, then best to keep them.
21:32:00EricEinemrockbox|domonokey - Thanks!
21:32:32pixelmalinuxstb: maybe things would work better if the item was not part of the sentence?
21:33:14pixelmaa bit more like a headline
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21:46:22gevaertsS_a_i_n_t: test_disk numbers might be useful
21:46:48S_a_i_n_tI need to compile with the test pugins then, correct?
21:47:54S_a_i_n_tSweet...I should have some numbers for you by then end of *my* day then, which may well indeed be tomorrow for you.
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21:58:11gevaertsOn my 5G 30G, I get 11.7MB/s read and 11.9MB/s write in rockbox, and 13.5MB/s read and 14.1MB/s write in the OF, for a 300MB read or write at the start of the disk
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22:04:10S_a_i_n_tsurely thats greater than 5%?
22:04:18S_a_i_n_tUnless my maths is *really* bad...
22:04:34gevaertsyes, but it's to disk. I'll do a test to nothing next :)
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22:07:10gevaertsWrite speed with no disk (i.e. pure USB) is 17.2 MB/s
22:08:00gevaertsor even slightly more
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