| 00:02:15 | kugel | including it in file.h gives sim_sleep() problems :\ |
| 00:03:06 | | Quit CGL (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:04:59 | kugel | what do I need to link for filesize()? |
| 00:05:55 | gevaerts | uisimulator/common/io.c has sim_filesize() |
| 00:06:06 | kugel | hm, I see |
| 00:06:39 | jhMikeS | kugel: heh, what's going on? I can't seem to build anything after updating. :D |
| 00:06:56 | kugel | downgrade :P |
| 00:07:22 | * | jhMikeS turns upside-down (to keep it "up") |
| 00:07:36 | gevaerts | jhMikeS: *anything* is a bit of an overstatement. Just about everything except gigabeat S builds aghain! |
| 00:08:15 | kugel | r25854 was bad for the database |
| 00:08:26 | pixelma | that's exaggerating too |
| 00:08:42 | jhMikeS | gevaerts: of course, that's what I'm building. I think kugel had it out for beast enthusiast from the start. |
| 00:10:38 | | Quit ender` (Quit: The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.) |
| 00:12:05 | | Join Farthen [0] (~Farthen@static.225.178.40.188.clients.your-server.de) |
| 00:13:56 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25855): Fix gigabeat S includes so it builds again |
| 00:13:59 | gevaerts | jhMikeS: have fun |
| 00:14:29 | | Join JohannesSM64 [0] (~johannes@cm-84.215.75.42.getinternet.no) |
| 00:14:38 | * | gevaerts claims that gigabeat S only built by accident previously |
| 00:14:48 | jhMikeS | kugel: thank you :) |
| 00:15:05 | * | jhMikeS is also having fun |
| 00:15:52 | kugel | I'm confused about tools/database/Makefile |
| 00:16:23 | jhMikeS | gevaerts: checkwps |
| 00:17:05 | gevaerts | jhMikeS: doesn't that build? |
| 00:17:37 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r25856): Revert r25854 which was bad for the database tool (I forgot it still needs the wrappers from uisimulator/common/io.c). Fix it so it works for both. |
| 00:17:53 | jhMikeS | gevaerts: gbs checkwps is what built (or /me thinks it's a little sarcasm about the port :D) |
| 00:18:45 | kugel | eh, what a bad c&p error |
| 00:18:50 | gevaerts | jhMikeS: by previously I meant before kugel got busy today :) |
| 00:19:35 | kugel | this variety of errors is somewhat exciting to fix but it also makes me nervous :P |
| 00:21:04 | * | jhMikeS recalls hitting some very high scores after doing recording updates |
| 00:21:19 | gevaerts | kugel: I think the remaining ones are trivial |
| 00:22:50 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r25857): Fix c&p error from r25853 that should've fixed some snprintf warnings. |
| 00:24:56 | jhMikeS | gevaerts: those can just stay, it spices up the garish greenness |
| 00:25:42 | * | gevaerts still wants to write some text on the build table using a carefullt crafter series of commits |
| 00:27:14 | | Quit grndslm (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:29:54 | kugel | funny how this c&p tradition leads to every lcd driver having a variable of the type off_t :) |
| 00:31:19 | | Quit joeyg (Quit: work-->home) |
| 00:31:35 | gevaerts | Yes, and all without the proper matching include :) |
| 00:32:37 | kugel | it makes no sense to use off_t but hey the others do it too :P |
| 00:32:56 | kugel | hopefully it will annoy kugel in the future ;) |
| 00:33:17 | kugel | gevaerts: in fact, I replaced the correct define by the wrong one for half of them |
| 00:33:37 | kugel | I switched it back, but I overlooked some when looking through this *huge* diff |
| 00:33:44 | kugel | s/define/include/ |
| 00:34:00 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r25858): Fix the remaining reds. |
| 00:34:49 | kugel | so, I have no idea about the strict-aliasing warnings |
| 00:35:03 | kugel | I thought we had turned those off in the main build & plugins |
| 00:38:40 | gevaerts | still some snprintf and friends left |
| 00:40:01 | kugel | one, yes |
| 00:40:22 | | Quit dfkt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 00:40:36 | jhMikeS | kugel: ah, type-punning? |
| 00:40:56 | gevaerts | kugel: player also has some |
| 00:41:13 | | Join dfkt [0] (~dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 00:41:48 | kugel | gevaerts: refresh? :) |
| 00:42:38 | gevaerts | ah, right |
| 00:43:06 | kugel | jhMikeS: do you have an idea? |
| 00:43:26 | gevaerts | huh, weird |
| 00:43:36 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:45:11 | kugel | tools/configure clearly deactivates this warning for gcc 4.0.1 or newer |
| 00:45:33 | | Quit dfkt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 00:45:34 | gevaerts | no, 4.1.0 or newer |
| 00:46:14 | jhMikeS | kugel: idea how? |
| 00:46:59 | kugel | gevaerts: oh |
| 00:47:12 | kugel | jhMikeS: the type-punning warnings |
| 00:47:35 | jhMikeS | I know the technicality, not why they'd show up if it's disabled :\ |
| 00:48:21 | kugel | hm, I guess because somehow our size_t handling changed? like how it now created warnings with snprintf |
| 00:48:43 | kugel | jhMikeS: it appears I was wrong and they're only disabled for 4.1.x |
| 00:49:11 | gevaerts | How did size_t change? |
| 00:50:13 | jhMikeS | buffer_size is ssize_t, not size_t. it doesn't like the conversion of the address-of to another type of addres-of |
| 00:50:15 | kugel | no idea, I only moved it to string.h |
| 00:50:55 | kugel | and changed the defines that guard against redefining a bit |
| 00:51:14 | * | jhMikeS made a PUN_PTR macro which convers it to uintptr_t first when he got too annoyed |
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| 00:52:40 | gevaerts | Where was it before? |
| 00:52:50 | kugel | sys/types.h |
| 00:53:27 | kugel | (which was wrong) |
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| 00:54:42 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r25859): Fix last sprintf warning. |
| 00:54:53 | gevaerts | right |
| 00:55:18 | gevaerts | The compiler defines it in stddef.h |
| 00:55:58 | gevaerts | or at least it might |
| 00:57:10 | kugel | it seems iso c defines it in both |
| 00:57:16 | kugel | according to wikipedia |
| 00:59:15 | gevaerts | ok, if I change string.h to only include stddef.h *after* defining size_t, it works |
| 00:59:39 | gevaerts | a bit too magical for my tastes though |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:22 | | Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 01:00:52 | kugel | err, really? |
| 01:01:49 | gevaerts | yes, at least for the player |
| 01:02:05 | kugel | my stddef only contains the NULL definition |
| 01:02:23 | kugel | (my /usr/include/linux/stddef.h) |
| 01:02:55 | gevaerts | sh-elf/lib/gcc/sh-elf/4.0.3/include/stddef.h |
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| 01:05:52 | gevaerts | sh-elf/lib/gcc/sh-elf/4.0.3/include/stddef.h |
| 01:05:54 | gevaerts | oops |
| 01:07:27 | gevaerts | kugel: actually, why does string.h include stddef.h? |
| 01:07:50 | kugel | dunno, that was there before. probably because the guy who did it knew that size_t is there |
| 01:08:38 | gevaerts | Possibly |
| 01:08:50 | gevaerts | "This is my initial attempt to get rid of the newlib headers requirement, for gcc built without newlib." |
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| 01:09:46 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25860): string.h shouldn't include stddef.h |
| 01:11:00 | kugel | maybe he needed size_t for the string and mem functions and didn't know that size_t actually needs to be defined here too |
| 01:11:16 | kugel | does that fix the problem? |
| 01:11:36 | gevaerts | for the player, yes |
| 01:12:12 | | Quit dfkt (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:12:56 | gevaerts | ok, some new yellow |
| 01:13:01 | kugel | it's also strange it hit only sh |
| 01:14:22 | kugel | err |
| 01:14:44 | kugel | that are the ones I changed to %zu a few commits back |
| 01:14:47 | gevaerts | yes, it's another fun one |
| 01:14:49 | kugel | you toggled some compiler magic |
| 01:14:55 | * | gevaerts has a suspicion |
| 01:15:36 | | Join ishottuify [0] (~4c422e86@giant.haxx.se) |
| 01:16:35 | ishottuify | can someone help me figure out the different parts on a pcb...? |
| 01:16:53 | | Join apoelstra [0] (~apoelstra@S010600236999fec1.vs.shawcable.net) |
| 01:17:40 | ishottuify | the pcb for philips gogear sa52xx >> http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GoGearSA5245_SA5285 |
| 01:20:27 | kugel | gevaerts: ah, #define size_t size_t is the culprit how I think |
| 01:21:28 | gevaerts | kugel: yes, you'd think so :) |
| 01:21:49 | kugel | but it isn't :/ |
| 01:22:19 | gevaerts | #include <stddef.h> fixes it |
| 01:22:26 | * | gevaerts doesn't understand this! |
| 01:23:24 | kugel | not for me |
| 01:23:26 | gevaerts | I have this suspicion that the %z thing cheats by knowing which particular typedef was used |
| 01:23:46 | gevaerts | Even if you have another one that's *identical*, it doesn't see that as size_t I think |
| 01:23:49 | kugel | I think so too |
| 01:24:05 | kugel | I already tried to define _SIZE_TYPE_ but I got lots of redefined errors |
| 01:25:04 | kugel | it doesn't kill the warnings too |
| 01:31:04 | kugel | yea, only including stddef.h fixes it |
| 01:31:14 | kugel | maybe that's the way to go? |
| 01:32:10 | kugel | ah no of course not, it bringes the strict-antialiasing thing back |
| 01:32:47 | | Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 01:32:52 | gevaerts | there are tricks I think |
| 01:34:03 | | Part toffe82 |
| 01:36:04 | kugel | alternatively we could lower the -fno-strict-aliasing rule in configure so that it applies for 4.0.3 as well |
| 01:36:31 | | Quit JohannesSM64 (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev) |
| 01:36:40 | kugel | I don't understand this at all, and also not why it only applies for sh, but maybe the reason for deactivating existed in 4.0.x already but was just better hidden? |
| 01:42:24 | gevaerts | kugel: I think I'm starting to understand this |
| 01:43:02 | gevaerts | linux string.h gets size_t from stddef.h using some tricks to *only* get size_t and not the rest. That bit is easy to do |
| 01:43:32 | gevaerts | However, if you do that, suddenly you're drowned in dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules warnings |
| 01:43:57 | gevaerts | I do think that most of those are real though |
| 01:44:32 | | Nick apoelstra is now known as joeyg (~apoelstra@S010600236999fec1.vs.shawcable.net) |
| 01:45:11 | kugel | the commit message and comment for the existing rule to disable this warnings suggest it would've been preferred to fix the code instead so maybe we're doing it wrong |
| 01:45:27 | kugel | but still, why is this only for sh |
| 01:46:03 | gevaerts | Most of those warnings ara about having a variable of type ssize_t, and putting a size_t in it |
| 01:46:08 | kugel | gevaerts: there must be further magic, copying all the size_t related defines to string.h doesn't help |
| 01:46:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:46:49 | gevaerts | kugel: well yes, that's clear. You need the real size_t from stddef.h, which you can get by defining __need_size_t and then including stddef.g |
| 01:47:03 | kugel | I think jhMikeS changed it to accept ssize_t, I wonder what the reason for that was? |
| 01:47:25 | gevaerts | If stddef.h had already been included you get nothing new, if it hadn't, you get *only* size_t |
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| 01:50:29 | kugel | err, it accepts size_t |
| 01:50:39 | kugel | (plugin_get_buffer() that is) |
| 01:52:35 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25861): Use -fno-strict-aliasing on 4.0 as well |
| 01:53:03 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25862): Define size_t the way the gcc/glibc people intended |
| 01:53:55 | gevaerts | There will be a few more yellows, but those are easy |
| 01:54:00 | kugel | gevaerts: I think r25861 isn't needed with r25862 |
| 01:54:19 | gevaerts | it is |
| 01:54:43 | kugel | ah, so it was the makefile generated by my temporary configure change |
| 01:55:02 | gevaerts | well, it was here unless I'm really too tired |
| 01:55:03 | kugel | I think fixing the code might be worthwhile, it's not that much warnings afterall |
| 01:55:38 | gevaerts | Yes, but it requires serious thinking |
| 01:55:53 | kugel | and passing ssize_t is clearly wrong.. |
| 01:55:59 | gevaerts | Some are trivial and don't need the signed thing in the first place, but not all |
| 01:57:13 | kugel | thanks for your help |
| 01:57:13 | | Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:57:25 | gevaerts | We're not *entirely* done yet :) |
| 01:58:23 | | Quit Strife89 (Quit: Rebooting, something's wrong ....) |
| 01:58:35 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25863): Fix last two yellows |
| 01:59:05 | kugel | that was a messy commit :\ |
| 01:59:13 | kugel | I mean my c-lib one |
| 01:59:44 | gevaerts | The good news is that we managed to paint the Manhattan skyline |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:00 | kugel | haha, indeed |
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| 02:01:40 | gevaerts | All green again \☺/ |
| 02:02:00 | | Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-80-144-24.mcn.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:02:04 | gevaerts | Getting rid of -fno-strict-aliasing again would definitely be good, but not today... |
| 02:02:53 | * | kugel needs some sleep as well |
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| 02:23:22 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Found some files you missed that still have #include<sprintf.h> |
| 02:24:02 | | Join krazykit [0] (~kkit@adsl-76-251-232-26.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:24:36 | Blue_Dude | I'll try to patch it later tonight. |
| 02:25:37 | | Join aberet [0] (~tty0@70-56-217-228.albq.qwest.net) |
| 02:27:57 | aberet | is it normal at this point for the unsupported Clipv2 port to have audible SD read activity and background static? |
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| 02:43:11 | ishottuify | can someone help me figure out the different parts on the pcb for philips gogear sa52xx >> http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GoGearSA5245_SA5285 |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:41:09 | joeyg | ishottuify, the proc is a Telechips TCC8300 which probably includes two arm cores and audio/video decoders |
| 03:42:15 | joeyg | the big toshiba chip is a nandflash |
| 03:42:21 | joeyg | and the samsung is dram |
| 03:46:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 04:13:50 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25864): Remove last traces of sprintf.h |
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| 04:25:04 | Blue_Dude | gevaerts: I get a compile warning in a sim build in uisimulator/common/io.c line 347 |
| 04:25:39 | Blue_Dude | warning: mode_t is promoted to int when passed through (...) |
| 04:26:22 | Blue_Dude | warning: (so you should pass 'int' not 'mode_t' to 'va_arg') |
| 04:26:41 | Blue_Dude | note: if this code is reached, the program will abort |
| 04:27:27 | Blue_Dude | It doesn't show in the build server, so it might be something local. I'll try with (yet another) clean build. |
| 04:29:19 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25865): i.MX31: Make some style changes to some driver code so that hardware vs. variable access is more obvious to the eye. Change a few data types and ... |
| 04:35:04 | Blue_Dude | gevaerts: Yep, still there after a clean build. Ideas appreciated. |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:07:48 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: hey, you round? |
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| 05:15:30 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: at what point does the calling thread become unblocked after queue_send()? or it just puts the event on the queue and yields? |
| 05:15:37 | * | JdGordon has a suspissoin why his code isnt working |
| 05:20:40 | JdGordon | VICTORY IS MINE! |
| 05:21:14 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25866): Hotkey menu items have their own icon |
| 05:22:15 | | Quit fdinel (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 05:28:30 | Blue_Dude | Whoa! Look at that delta. That doesn't make a bit of sense. I added maybe one line of code. WTF? |
| 05:29:58 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: the thread is unblocked when the receiver replies |
| 05:30:28 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: this happens with a queue_reply call or when the next message is dequeued by the thread that owns the queue |
| 05:31:04 | Blue_Dude | Aw, WTFO? That doesn't make any sense! |
| 05:32:02 | JdGordon | the new icon gets but into the binary |
| 05:32:29 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: btw, if you meant the other way, the sender always blocks and a new thread is selected to run via switch_thread. |
| 05:32:39 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: yeah thanks, as soon as the button loop yielded the thread uncblocked :) |
| 05:32:55 | Blue_Dude | JdGordon: Yeah, but it's a 6x8 bitmap... |
| 05:33:01 | JdGordon | so I just added some trickery and its all good again |
| 05:33:29 | JdGordon | Blue_Dude: 6x8x16... |
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| 05:34:05 | Blue_Dude | That's still only 96 bytes. |
| 05:34:08 | JdGordon | yeah :p |
| 05:34:12 | JdGordon | something is not right :) |
| 05:35:23 | Blue_Dude | Thanks, Capt. Obvious. :) |
| 05:37:32 | | Quit anewuser (Quit: for SELL 2 by the price of 1 now!) |
| 05:38:49 | Blue_Dude | Oh, no. The picture edit software I used to update the bitmaps defaults to 24 bit color. |
| 05:38:52 | Blue_Dude | Oops. |
| 05:39:23 | | Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 05:46:22 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:48:03 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25867): Correct bitmap color depth |
| 05:51:46 | Blue_Dude | Uh, what? |
| 05:51:52 | Blue_Dude | Grrr |
| 05:53:33 | jhMikeS | it only added the huge delta to color targets if I read that correctly |
| 05:58:35 | Blue_Dude | I'm still confused. Color depth wasn't the issue. The last commit did nothing. |
| 05:59:37 | Blue_Dude | 432 bytes for the color bitmap. |
| 06:00 |
| 06:02:43 | Blue_Dude | One target had a 5000 byte delta. Is there something magical about the bitmap size? |
| 06:03:20 | * | Blue_Dude will sleep on it. Tapped out. |
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| 06:15:00 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25868): Remove stray function prototype used only for long-ago-removed codec swapping. Function definition was removed when adding internal voice codec. |
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| 07:30:29 | Llorean | Shouldn't changes to the default theme at least be discussed before committing? |
| 07:32:19 | JdGordon | they were brought up a few days ago |
| 07:33:31 | Llorean | That's funny, the patch was posted less than a day ago. |
| 07:33:44 | Llorean | It has zero comments on it, before committing. |
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| 07:35:01 | Llorean | JdGordon: Can you reference me to where in the logs it is? |
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| 07:42:50 | S_a_i_n_t | There were changes to the default theme? |
| 07:43:03 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: The addition of a new icon for hotkeyable items. |
| 07:43:10 | Llorean | With a considerable binsize increase to boot. |
| 07:43:22 | S_a_i_n_t | oh, yeah...yesterday or so. |
| 07:43:36 | S_a_i_n_t | yes, I believe it was yesterday. |
| 07:43:39 | Llorean | That's hardly "a few days ago" then. |
| 07:44:30 | S_a_i_n_t | I don't think the icon itself it to blame for the binsize increase...it'll be what 12x12x16? |
| 07:44:46 | S_a_i_n_t | a few bytes of .bmp? |
| 07:45:19 | pixelma | will the icon take priority over the item's other icon - and only if set as hotkey function or also as a marker that this item is hotkeyable (so always)? |
| 07:45:43 | Llorean | pixelma: Don't know. It sounds like it replaces the icon for all hotkeyable items. |
| 07:45:59 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: I think any context item that can be hotkeyyed gets it. |
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| 07:46:28 | Llorean | It seems like we should've had some discussion for the look of the new icon (and whether it should even be displayed by default, or be a theme option that doesn't get used in the default theme) |
| 07:46:31 | S_a_i_n_t | I'd like something *in addition to* the regular icon myself, not replacing it. |
| 07:46:42 | Llorean | As well, it surely needs a manual description telling people why a whole bunch of items now have a different icone. |
| 07:46:48 | S_a_i_n_t | it will affect the info regarding .icons files in the wiki also |
| 07:46:58 | S_a_i_n_t | now we have 32 icons all of a sudden. |
| 07:47:08 | Llorean | And if the big binsize increase isn't intentional/expected (as per the author's own comment in channel earlier) shouldn't it be reverted for the moment? |
| 07:47:41 | Llorean | I'm not sure we need a visual indicator whether something can be hotkeyed |
| 07:47:47 | Llorean | We don't have one for whether things can be used in the quickscreen. |
| 07:47:56 | pixelma | yeah |
| 07:48:11 | S_a_i_n_t | I'd like to be able to perhaps "switch it on/off" to be able to reference hotkeyable items *if I want to* |
| 07:48:16 | Llorean | It just seems like bloat. People can figure it out very quickly, and they should be able to remember the 3 or 4 they regularly set to it |
| 07:48:19 | S_a_i_n_t | perhaps a theme option? |
| 07:48:28 | Llorean | But it's certainly not worth the size increase currently shown. |
| 07:49:05 | S_a_i_n_t | I can't explain the increase...it doesn't seen like a rational increrase for the function |
| 07:49:15 | S_a_i_n_t | as I said, the .bmp itself will be tiny. |
| 07:50:14 | Llorean | Yes, which suggests something may be wrong with the patch. |
| 07:50:40 | Llorean | The binsize increase is reasonable relative to the image size. |
| 07:50:46 | Llorean | Most of the increase is in RAM usage |
| 07:52:35 | pixelma | I think I still would prefer a different more standard ui for it (a list of the hotkey functions inside a "what should the hotkey do" menu). This could only be a problem when the list becomes to long but from the few comments I read yesterday it doesn't seem many things suitable on the hotkey. I didn't like the completely different way to set it from the start (and said so here) |
| 07:52:58 | pixelma | -typos |
| 07:53:02 | Llorean | pixelma: I agree. |
| 07:53:21 | Llorean | Not to mention, you could even add things to the list that might not make sense as menu entries in the future (if such things ever exist) |
| 07:54:35 | S_a_i_n_t | I wanted a menu also, but it was idscussed at length...and it was decided (I thought at least) that a menu inside the context menu was a definite NODO |
| 07:54:50 | S_a_i_n_t | *discussed |
| 07:55:09 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: Why would it be inside the context menu? |
| 07:55:12 | pixelma | a context menu in the context menu was a nodo |
| 07:55:21 | Llorean | You could have the setting anywhere. |
| 07:55:28 | Llorean | "Hotkey" and then when selected, a list of options. |
| 07:55:32 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: good point. |
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| 07:57:27 | S_a_i_n_t | it being inside the appropriate context menu seemed to make sense to me though, as you have two different context menus to deal with (filetree/wps) so cludging them all together could be weird unless once you selected what you wanted from the list you could pick "set as filetree hotkey" or "set as WPS hotkey" |
| 07:57:33 | S_a_i_n_t | (or something similar) |
| 07:58:16 | Llorean | Hotkey -> list containing different screens for which the hotkey can be defined (WPS, List, WRS, FM, for example) |
| 07:58:19 | pixelma | S_a_i_n_t: you can have different things on the hotkey in the WPS and in lists? |
| 07:58:21 | Llorean | And then under those the lists of options. |
| 07:58:30 | * | Llorean would hope that it's not one function for all screens. |
| 07:58:47 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: yeah... |
| 07:59:28 | S_a_i_n_t | the wps/filetree hotkeys are totally seperate. |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:14 | pixelma | so you have the combo go to the playlist in the WPS and do something else in the tree? Provided the target has free keys in both... |
| 08:00:37 | S_a_i_n_t | yes |
| 08:00:54 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm kinda surprised you didn;t know that to be honest |
| 08:01:01 | S_a_i_n_t | have you used the hotkey at all? |
| 08:01:23 | S_a_i_n_t | there is though, a bit of a lack in documentation...I'll admit. |
| 08:01:44 | pixelma | no - and two of my three targets don't have the hotkey at all - the other I don't know |
| 08:02:38 | pixelma | ok, the c200 had the playlist viewer shortcut before so at least hotkey in WPS |
| 08:03:47 | pixelma | that's the one I use least currently |
| 08:04:06 | S_a_i_n_t | the WPS hotkey is set to "Playlist Viewer" by default (not sure why exactly actually...) and the Filetree hotkey remains unset by default. |
| 08:05:31 | pixelma | the why is in my statement before - the WPS key combo that was used as a playlist viewer shortcut before was made the hotkey combo |
| 08:06:23 | Llorean | Basically, it's set to that so that people use to the old behaviour don't have something new happen when they press the button |
| 08:07:01 | amiconn | gevaerts: I don't like 25861 at all. The type-punnedness warnings are there for a reason |
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| 08:08:24 | amiconn | They were disabled for gcc 4.1.x because it seemed to have a bug that caused them to appear without cause. gcc 4.0.x does not have that problem |
| 08:08:45 | JdGordon | Llorean: I dont exactly have time for an argument, but I will say that discussion is pointless.. I'm pretty sure i have proven that the ml is a waste of time, eeither noone replies or it turns into a flame fest |
| 08:08:48 | JdGordon | ditto here |
| 08:09:42 | amiconn | S_a_i_n_t: If you hover over the delta, you see that most of it is ram usage increase. Binsize change is in the expected range |
| 08:10:02 | Llorean | JdGordon: So basically, there's no point in ever talking about anything, and everyone should just do what they like? |
| 08:10:31 | amiconn | The icon is (for colour targets) 6x8x16 *bits*, i.e. 6*8*16/8 = 96 bytes |
| 08:10:35 | * | Llorean takes that as an invitation to revert commits that annoy him rather than attempting to discuss it first, if JdGordon's so sure discussion can't happen. |
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| 08:11:02 | kugel | amiconn: the comment suggests something else |
| 08:11:57 | kugel | the commit message too |
| 08:12:10 | amiconn | Referring to what? :confused: |
| 08:13:43 | kugel | the type-pundness warning issue |
| 08:14:28 | amiconn | I fail to see a comment, and the commit msg is just "Use -fno-strict-aliasing on 4.0 as well |
| 08:14:34 | amiconn | ...without reasoning |
| 08:16:14 | Llorean | JdGordon: I love your attempt at civility and reasoned discussion on the mailing list. |
| 08:16:36 | JdGordon | I'm glad :) |
| 08:17:02 | Llorean | JdGordon: Maybe you should consider not responding if you don't have anything useful to add. |
| 08:17:05 | kugel | amiconn: you can see the comment in the commit diff (of gevaerts commit) |
| 08:17:08 | Llorean | Since you're the one complaining about the lack of reasonable discussion. |
| 08:17:09 | JdGordon | SNAP! |
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| 08:18:00 | amiconn | kugel: There is no comment ?! He just changed the if condition in configure |
| 08:18:13 | kugel | and I meant the commit message of the commit which originally added -fno-strict-aliasing there (r10609) |
| 08:18:20 | kugel | amiconn: there's an existing commit |
| 08:18:26 | amiconn | Yeah |
| 08:18:49 | B4gder | JdGordon: I think your action and response to the mailing lists are totally not cool |
| 08:18:50 | Llorean | JdGordon: No, but seriously, what was the point of that? Why even get involved with it if you really don't care to take it at all seriously? |
| 08:18:59 | amiconn | But this comment refers doesn't explain why - it just says what it does |
| 08:19:05 | kugel | you said "They were disabled for gcc 4.1.x because it seemed to have a bug that caused them to appear without cause. gcc 4.0.x does not have that problem" which doesn't seem true considering the comment and r10609 |
| 08:20:05 | amiconn | That's exactly what I mean |
| 08:20:31 | JdGordon | Llorean: put it this way... if you seriosuly didnt have a whinge after every single commit then things would be alot more reaosnable |
| 08:20:37 | amiconn | r10609 disabled it for gcc 4.1.x (because there obviously are problems with it) but *not* for 4.0.x |
| 08:20:59 | JdGordon | and suggesting that you have any right to revert my shit, well that caused my reply |
| 08:21:16 | kugel | right, but not because of a gcc bug |
| 08:21:18 | amiconn | And until r25850 there were no such warnings from gcc 4.0.x targets (arm and sh) |
| 08:21:26 | Llorean | JdGordon: I didn't suggest I had a right to. You said reasoned discussion couldn't happen, I suggested that if you can't discuss things then the only response left is to revert things you don't like. |
| 08:21:27 | scorche | anyone has the "right" to revert anyone's "shit" |
| 08:21:37 | amiconn | Now there are - and this tells me the warnings should be fixed, not suppressed |
| 08:21:48 | Llorean | JdGordon: But you can't blame your behaviour on me. I didn't make you act like that. |
| 08:22:12 | kugel | you said they are disabled for 4.1 due to a gcc bug |
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| 08:23:24 | amiconn | Yeah, perhaps it wasn't a bug, but more strict aliasing tests |
| 08:23:36 | | Quit bieber (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 08:23:43 | kugel | I didn't change the code where the warnings, nor the used gcc version. hence ignoring the warning is safe if it was before |
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| 08:24:29 | amiconn | You certainly did (indirectly) |
| 08:24:29 | kugel | and I and gevaerts already concluded that fixing the code is a good idea but it requires thinking about each case |
| 08:24:47 | kugel | in the meantime the table can be kept green |
| 08:25:32 | JdGordon | Llorean: you could have of course started the whole thing with "Blue_Dude: I didnt see any discussion re your last commit, I wonder if I missed it?" instead of straight away being a prick? |
| 08:25:47 | amiconn | Yeah, and then forgotten about the problem :\ |
| 08:26:16 | Llorean | JdGordon: I asked you where the discussion was. As well, presence of the discussion or not doesn't change the fact that the patch seems to have some significant flaws at the moment and could've just as easily been reverted until he could look at it again, rather than left overnight. |
| 08:26:21 | pixelma | JdGordon: Llorean just said that he didn't see a discussion here? |
| 08:26:23 | kugel | it's not a problem if the code worked well before |
| 08:26:23 | Llorean | As well, the issue of yet another lacking manual entry is still valid. |
| 08:26:59 | Llorean | JdGordon: Like it or not, all of my questions are valid ones. You could've simply answered them or ignored them. |
| 08:27:03 | * | amiconn wonders whether kugel misses his point |
| 08:27:16 | kugel | we didn't change the code, but only triggered some change gcc magic relating to stddef.h to make it even see a problem there |
| 08:27:26 | JdGordon | how could a manual entyr be added for an icon? |
| 08:27:28 | amiconn | The warnings are there to show potential problems, possibly leading to instability |
| 08:27:41 | kugel | in fact the warning was hidden before too, but unintentionally |
| 08:27:42 | amiconn | And the problem *did* get worse than it was pre-r25850 |
| 08:27:58 | Llorean | JdGordon: Easy. Under the hotkey manual section add a note "Hotkeyable menu entries will be displayed with an alternate red icon in the default theme" |
| 08:27:59 | Llorean | Done |
| 08:28:00 | amiconn | huh? |
| 08:28:23 | JdGordon | the menual shouldnt discuss the default theme at all |
| 08:28:32 | amiconn | It certainly wasn't hidden for gcc 4.0.x (and 3.4.x) |
| 08:28:32 | JdGordon | woops, someone changes the default and then its out of date |
| 08:28:36 | Llorean | Then you fix it |
| 08:28:46 | Llorean | Just like "whoops, someone changes where an item is in the menus then its out of date" |
| 08:29:00 | Llorean | If you have an icon that is specifically there to tell a user something about an item, you need to tell the user *what* it tells them |
| 08:29:07 | JdGordon | someone might also think a different theme is the default |
| 08:29:14 | JdGordon | its just stupid putting that in the manual |
| 08:29:14 | Llorean | Especially if without a description it appears completely random. |
| 08:29:15 | kugel | amiconn: it was |
| 08:29:22 | amiconn | how? |
| 08:29:28 | kugel | gcc has special handling for size_t apparently which wasn't enabled before |
| 08:29:31 | Llorean | JdGordon: So basically we can't describe any of the UI at all as it may change in appearance later? |
| 08:29:46 | JdGordon | yes, of course, take it tot he extreme :/ |
| 08:30:02 | Llorean | But you're using the "it may change" as your only argument |
| 08:30:03 | kugel | now it warns if you use %lu in printf when the var is size_t, and it sees possible aliasing rule breakage |
| 08:30:05 | Llorean | Clearly the icon may change |
| 08:30:12 | Llorean | But it's currently this, and we *can* describe it |
| 08:30:19 | kugel | *both* didn't happen before |
| 08:30:25 | Llorean | We can't help it if someone isn't using the default theme, just like we can't help it if someone is using a modified build. |
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| 08:30:40 | JdGordon | and what benefit does putting that line in the manual add? |
| 08:30:52 | Llorean | The benefit of actually telling users what that icon means? |
| 08:30:59 | JdGordon | the icons dont mean anything |
| 08:31:02 | Llorean | Rather than them booting their player, finding half the icons are now red, and not knowing what it means |
| 08:31:06 | Llorean | Usually red is a *warning* |
| 08:31:13 | Llorean | If they don't mean anything, why did we add one that *does* mean something? |
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| 08:31:54 | kugel | it didn't happen before because we had the size_t definition in sys/types.h and not in string.h where it should be and where stddef.h is included (which triggers the special handling) |
| 08:32:03 | amiconn | kugel: Actually it seems that r25861 is unnecessary, and can be reverted without warnings reappearing |
| 08:32:34 | kugel | did you re-run tools/configure? |
| 08:32:54 | amiconn | I didn't re-run anything |
| 08:33:14 | amiconn | I just looked at the build table and related commit diffs |
| 08:33:36 | * | kugel wonders if amiconn has read the relating irc logs |
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| 08:34:03 | kugel | http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20100507#01:54:00 |
| 08:34:46 | amiconn | kugel: r25861 suppressed the "type punned pointer..." warning, but there was no such warning in the r25860 round |
| 08:35:47 | kugel | as I said, it's triggered by including stddef.h, which was restored in r24862 |
| 08:36:57 | kugel | we were really confused about this issue, reading the logs helps understanding it |
| 08:37:38 | amiconn | r25862 does more than just restore the #include <stddef.h> |
| 08:39:25 | amiconn | You're right about this size_t handling uncovered a bug though |
| 08:39:51 | amiconn | Did you *actually* look at the code that triggered the type-punnedness warnings? The bug is obvious |
| 08:40:51 | * | JdGordon hopes noone does an update of only the rockbox binary.... that could cause funny icons :) |
| 08:40:55 | amiconn | ssize_t vs. size_t |
| 08:41:49 | Llorean | JdGordon: So again, if they're not supposed to mean anything, why'd we add ones that do? I mean, I thought they were supposed to mean things such as "this file is a music file" (the one with music notes) or so on. |
| 08:41:56 | Llorean | If they aren't, we probably need to strongly reconsider the iconset. |
| 08:42:31 | JdGordon | I'm not saying I agree with the change, I honestly coudlny care less. |
| 08:42:38 | JdGordon | adding the note in the manual is silly though |
| 08:42:41 | Llorean | That doesn't answer my question. |
| 08:42:51 | Llorean | You said icons don't mean anything. |
| 08:43:00 | Llorean | Is this the intended use of icons, or is their current use the intended one? |
| 08:43:48 | JdGordon | the intended use is always was to make the list slightly prettier |
| 08:44:13 | Llorean | Then we shouldn't be wasting binsize on adding ones that are supposed to be meaningful. |
| 08:44:23 | kugel | amiconn: yes, we did |
| 08:44:27 | Llorean | They make the list look pretty ugly, blaring and red |
| 08:45:27 | kugel | amiconn: it does not more, you need the two defines above to get the definitions, but including it alone also triggers the warnings |
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| 08:46:30 | * | Llorean thinks at the very least, we should consider a different color for the icons |
| 08:47:22 | kugel | amiconn: but we don't know whether the code there relies on using ssize_t or not, you'd need to look closer at the code |
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| 08:57:56 | bug2000 | I find it supprising that Rockbox has recording support for Clip v2 before Clip v1. But who am I to complain. I didn't help coding it. |
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| 09:33:16 | pixelma | I don't think the documentation would be about the icon itself (so not really theme dependent). It's about its use in principle, as a marker for hotkeyable items if it stays this way (I don't like the idea though) |
| 09:34:08 | pixelma | and the sentence Llorean has given can be true even if the actual look might change |
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| 09:40:06 | Llorean | pixelma: Yes, it could be written as "in the quickscreen, functions that can be set as a hotkey will receive a different icon than other functions" or similar. |
| 09:40:55 | pixelma | where, what, quickscreen? |
| 09:41:49 | Llorean | Er, context menu |
| 09:41:50 | Llorean | Sorry |
| 09:42:02 | Llorean | It was just an approximation anyway, to indicate it doesn't need to describe what the icon looks like |
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| 09:46:08 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25869): Fuzev2: calibrated discharge curve |
| 09:46:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:00 |
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| 10:16:58 | gevaerts | amiconn: the size_t vs ssize_t thing is indeed obvious, but while some code does indeed never do anything special with the value (and so should be safe to just change), some places do some arithmetic on the resulting value, possibly making it negative. I was too tired last night to reliably handle them |
| 10:17:39 | gevaerts | I'm willing to just revert the configure change, but then we'll have lots of yellow until someone gets to it (I plan to have a look tonight). Can we live with that? |
| 10:19:43 | funman | we can live with the change not reverted |
| 10:19:47 | funman | just do it all at once |
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| 10:30:45 | funman | Bagder: i have some AMS firmwares which aren't on your website, how can I send them to you ? (there's a couple dozens of megabyes) |
| 10:34:09 | B4gder | mail them, but probably not all of it in a single mail |
| 10:34:39 | funman | hm could I just give you a ftp link? |
| 10:34:55 | B4gder | that works even better ;-) |
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| 10:45:25 | funman | saratoga: can you wait for FS #11246 before releasing the fuzev2 bootloader? |
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| 11:20:26 | * | S_a_i_n_t is getting more than a little tired of the petty bickering about things of late, and even more tired of the way the escalte so dramatically. Even if the points being made are totally valid, they way they're being put across by some people totally sucks... |
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| 12:26:31 | Llorean | Torne: The person with battery problems in his iPod - wouldn't having a charger plugged in bypass those problems? Or does it just charge the battery, and pass through the battery to power the player (which seems silly, but I know at least one other player had that IIRC) |
| 12:27:01 | Torne | Llorean: the disk pulls more than 500mA to spin up |
| 12:27:02 | Torne | iirc. |
| 12:28:22 | Llorean | Ah |
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| 12:29:47 | Torne | the Beast has the same problem, it can't power up from usb when the battery is flat |
| 12:29:58 | Torne | and the beast has no protection from this, so it just reboots in a loop and never charges |
| 12:30:03 | | Quit esperegu (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:30:14 | Torne | the ipod bootrom in theory shuts itself off once this happens, to give hte battery a chance to charge |
| 12:30:25 | Torne | but if it's in the emergency disk mode tha tlogic might not work |
| 12:30:30 | Torne | (it should ,if you just let it boot the OF) |
| 12:30:51 | Torne | well, assuming the battery is ever going to recover :) |
| 12:31:04 | funman | speaking of charging, any idea why the AMSv2 would only charge up to 67% ? |
| 12:31:32 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@skatol.ch.pw.edu.pl) |
| 12:31:33 | Llorean | Torne: I'd noticed that with the beast. *very* frustrating that you can't use USB to recover a dead battery (since you could on the F and I'd gotten used to it) |
| 12:32:07 | Torne | yeah. the ipod writes magic strings to iram to detect whether booting succeeded (since iram is preserved across resets) |
| 12:32:15 | Torne | the beast doesn't appear to have any such mechanism |
| 12:33:28 | Llorean | The F just doesn't visibly boot on USB insertion at all |
| 12:34:58 | n1s | the beast can at least charge with the charger so it isn't *that* bad |
| 12:35:16 | Torne | yeah, but that's because the beast has a real AC charger that delivers lots of power |
| 12:35:35 | Torne | as best as i've been able to determine so far, the ipods don't pull more than 500mA from the USB connector even if that's an Apple AC charger rated for 1A |
| 12:35:46 | Llorean | n1s: The F could charge with either the charger or USB no matter how low the battery got, even if it couldn't boot, which was really nice. |
| 12:35:56 | Torne | Llorean: yah, but that's just a software/hardware charging thing, no? |
| 12:35:58 | Llorean | You could just leave it powered off sitting on a spare USB port for a while, and eventually it could be turned on. |
| 12:36:05 | Llorean | Torne: Probably. |
| 12:36:14 | n1s | Llorean: ah |
| 12:36:19 | Torne | the ipod has hardware charging, but autopowers on |
| 12:36:32 | Torne | so they have the logic to notice they are rebooting and shut the power off |
| 12:36:36 | Torne | so that it can charge instead. |
| 12:36:36 | Llorean | Is the beast supposed to power on on headphone insert? |
| 12:37:03 | Torne | ..headphone? |
| 12:37:16 | Llorean | Yes |
| 12:37:28 | Llorean | Mine does. |
| 12:37:33 | funman | any dev but mcuelenaere got a Creative Zen Vision? |
| 12:37:37 | Torne | not that i know of, but i doubt i've tried |
| 12:37:41 | Llorean | But I didn't remember whether it always did or not. |
| 12:37:44 | Torne | i've very rarely used the beast for music :) |
| 12:37:52 | funman | and would be willing to lend it to me |
| 12:38:09 | Llorean | funman: That reminds me. |
| 12:38:18 | n1s | Llorean: it has been doing it for some time, dunno if it was intentional |
| 12:38:39 | Llorean | Might it make sense to acquire official "Rockbox" players for most/all types? So that we have one of each around for testing when something important comes up (or mailing, when something *doesn't* work somewhere it really should)? |
| 12:39:06 | amiconn | Torne: If battery is really low, the ipod rom refuses to boot from disk, and just charges for a while, showing a big charging icon |
| 12:39:19 | Llorean | Right now we have some players where only one or two devs have it, and if they leave, we don't have a way for things to be tested on them in the future. There's probably a player or two there's none of (iPod 3G / 2G? ) |
| 12:39:21 | Torne | amiconn: yah, but it can't always tell that in advance |
| 12:39:30 | funman | Llorean: i think informally sending players ourselves is alright |
| 12:39:32 | amiconn | At least my mini does that - and in theory a microdrive could be powered from usb |
| 12:39:44 | Torne | amiconn: it's possible that unloaded the battery voltage looks just barely ok |
| 12:39:51 | Llorean | funman: Yes, but it'd be nice to have one around explicitly *for* sending. :) |
| 12:39:51 | Torne | but the load of spinup pulls it too low to run the device |
| 12:40:04 | Torne | they write a string to iram that basically imparts "shit we reset during boot" |
| 12:40:11 | Torne | and the OF clears that if it starts successfully, i assume |
| 12:40:16 | amiconn | Llorean: I have an 1G and a 2G, and iirc jhMikeS has a 3G |
| 12:40:43 | Torne | amiconn: ah, can you test my bootloaders? :) |
| 12:41:02 | funman | myself I have already 3 'property of rockbox' Sansas |
| 12:42:00 | Torne | amiconn: at some point. no great hurry. |
| 12:42:03 | amiconn | Not now, at least |
| 12:42:45 | Torne | also, do you have an opinion on what we should do about contrast? obviously it would be *nice* to fix it properly, but equally i'd quite like to get a bootloader release out in the near-ish future |
| 12:42:47 | n1s | i think buying targets with already working rb for devs would be nice |
| 12:43:06 | n1s | to increase the number of devs with the rarer targets |
| 12:43:20 | funman | 1 dev = 1 archos player :) |
| 12:43:33 | Llorean | n1s: And just to help assure that some of the rarer targets will be around in the future. |
| 12:43:33 | B4gder | ondios to everyone! |
| 12:43:42 | * | B4gder ducks |
| 12:43:56 | n1s | heh |
| 12:44:05 | Llorean | Some of the targets are already becoming quite hard to buy, and if the last dev with one of those leaves it'd be nice to have an official Rockbox one around to lend if a new interested dev showed up. |
| 12:44:16 | Llorean | Or to test similar optimizations or whatnot |
| 12:44:48 | n1s | i think an official one is a bit overkill |
| 12:51:04 | * | amiconn would actually like an archos fm recorder |
| 12:53:21 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25870): i.MX31/Gigabeat S minor cleaning: Make HW access more obvious in places I forgot to do earlier. Reduce the number of structs that need to be ... |
| 12:54:34 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 12:56:42 | wodz | amiconn: could You remind me how to procceed with test_grey plugin and how to adjust grey shades? |
| 13:00 |
| 13:03:00 | jhMikeS | amiconn: indeed, I have a 3g but also and an archos player. I suppose a mips target would be nice to have just to have all major archetectures covered. |
| 13:03:10 | pixelma | the Ondio is really nice |
| 13:03:24 | pixelma | but hard to get these days |
| 13:04:15 | * | S_a_i_n_t needs a giga-beast to er......theme on, yeah, that's the one. ;) |
| 13:04:32 | S_a_i_n_t | not enough themes for the beast already... :P |
| 13:05:29 | jhMikeS | S_a_i_n_t: just to theme? an F would theme the same. can you handle the beast? :P |
| 13:06:44 | S_a_i_n_t | Pffffft! Sure I can, the beast can't handle *me* ;) |
| 13:07:41 | jhMikeS | :) |
| 13:08:58 | S_a_i_n_t | I've only ever seen one Beast for sale in NZ so far, and only a handful of F's...the beast was so banged up also, obviously a very well loved/used player. |
| 13:09:34 | | Quit funman (Quit: free(random());) |
| 13:09:58 | jhMikeS | anyway, I did some checks but haven't done a full battery bench. it seems that constant interrupt problem was hitting the battery life pretty hard. if anyone benched before r25837, I'd recommend rechecking. |
| 13:10:45 | Llorean | jhMikeS: I was gonna ask about that actually (didn't do a bench, but when I saw mention of the constant interrupts I was going to ask if better battery life was now to be expected) |
| 13:11:07 | jhMikeS | S_a_i_n_t: I got mine from toffee82 so I really didn't need to look much. He practically threw it at me. |
| 13:11:20 | S_a_i_n_t | lucky boy ;) |
| 13:11:45 | S_a_i_n_t | I think it's a dog-ass ugly player, but, it has grunt...sheer grunt. |
| 13:12:34 | jhMikeS | Llorean: compared to before that committ, after doing a two-hour comparison from at same voltage levels from the more recent longer bench I did, it seems it might be a little ahead of that even. |
| 13:13:28 | S_a_i_n_t | If grunt like that could be squished into that form factor of a Nano...S_a_i_n_t would be a /very/ happy boy... |
| 13:13:30 | jhMikeS | S_a_i_n_t: style-wise it reminds me of my Rickenbacker bass guitar (that I had). No way it's ugly. |
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| 13:14:07 | * | S_a_i_n_t is a Nano man, 10 and counting now :D |
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| 13:14:33 | * | Llorean still needs to go through some day and update plugins to support the side control buttons. |
| 13:14:47 | Llorean | Many of the games could have full playback control without interfering with game controls |
| 13:14:47 | | Quit bilditup1 (Client Quit) |
| 13:17:57 | * | jhMikeS checks mpegplayer and seen that |<< and >>| have been overlooked but not |> || or +/- |
| 13:20:46 | jhMikeS | Llorean: that might be nice to have thought |
| 13:20:49 | jhMikeS | *though |
| 13:21:18 | Llorean | jhMikeS: I find myself habitually trying to tweak volume while in jewels or something. |
| 13:21:55 | Llorean | Interestingly you can do it from the list in jewels (though prev/next still don't work, since they don't do anything in the normal list context yet either) |
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| 13:33:16 | * | jhMikeS suggests page up/dn instead of the down/up + back that is rather awkward |
| 13:34:09 | Llorean | That'd work too. |
| 13:34:24 | Llorean | Safer too - accidentally skipping tracks when you can't even see the WPS would be annoying |
| 13:36:09 | | Quit bilditup1 (Quit: Leaving) |
| 13:37:41 | | Quit Filburt (Quit: Goodbye! :)) |
| 13:39:12 | * | amiconn would also like a mips target - if only there was one without touchscreen :\\ |
| 13:39:18 | wodz | pixelma: are You 100% sure that there is no difference between boosted/unboosted in test_mem ? |
| 13:39:48 | wodz | amiconn: do You have CF target at hand? |
| 13:40:15 | B4gder | there are MIPS targets without touch, they just don't run rockbox ;-) |
| 13:40:34 | | Join esperegu [0] (~quassel@145.116.15.244) |
| 13:40:39 | markun | amiconn: playstation portable? :) |
| 13:40:58 | pixelma | wodz: I'm quite sure because it also made me wonder, if you want to I can try again |
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| 13:42:40 | wodz | pixelma: I am asking because 1) I have results which are in simple proportion to frequency on MPIO 2) because unboosted results on MPIO are probably responsible for high cpu frequency |
| 13:45:35 | ucchan | At last, I can return to the work of Rockbox because my work ended. (very very hard...) |
| 13:46:36 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:47:05 | ucchan | It is possible to comment on the embedded albumart (FS #11216) finally. |
| 13:47:56 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25871): Add support for the next/prev side buttons to mpegplayer on the Gigabeat S to control seeking. |
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| 13:53:48 | ucchan | I plan to do work to support TTA codec. |
| 13:54:02 | ucchan | Does the person who has already started it have someone? |
| 13:57:56 | ucchan | It might be complete by the end of May if I am not busy... |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:10:51 | jhMikeS | Llorean: the back button doesn't do anything in video context either. personally, I've wanted a button to show the osd without having other effects. |
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| 14:14:39 | Blue_Dude | What's the svn command to cleanly revert the the repository copy of certain files to their prior versions? |
| 14:15:22 | Blue_Dude | I've copied the old versions locally and can recommit them as though they were new, but didn't know if that would mess up versioning. |
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| 14:20:09 | Blue_Dude | I'm trying to fix the problem without messing up the repository. Some help would be appreciated. |
| 14:23:46 | wodz | I am looking for some coldfire guru |
| 14:24:22 | wodz | I can't realy understand sdram configuration bits |
| 14:25:09 | | Quit Hillshum (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 14:25:41 | gevaerts | Blue_Dude: svn update -r <revision> file |
| 14:25:58 | gevaerts | possibly svn revert <file> first |
| 14:26:50 | Blue_Dude | gevaerts: That's kinda the problem. Is there a difference to svn between recommitting to an older version or reverting to it? |
| 14:27:15 | gevaerts | Blue_Dude: what do you mean by "recommitting to an older version"? |
| 14:27:44 | Blue_Dude | I mean reverting the local copy, then checking it in as though it was a new update. |
| 14:28:34 | Blue_Dude | I will partially revert r25866, but with a couple of changes. |
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| 14:37:00 | pixelma | which changes? |
| 14:38:02 | Blue_Dude | I'll keep the internal menu designation "HOTKEYABLE" and the code that assigns them to a new icon. I'm trying to decide on the icon right now. There's not much in the say of choice. |
| 14:38:08 | Blue_Dude | *way |
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| 14:40:14 | * | Torne doesn't see the need to display that information |
| 14:40:40 | Torne | the lack of a splash on trying to hotkey a non-hotkeyable thing was spectacularly confusing when i was testing this the other day, though |
| 14:41:07 | Torne | Oh.. yeah. that reminds me what i was doing the other day. Need to see if I can fix the action code to ignore releases on context change properly :) |
| 14:41:21 | Torne | Blue_Dude: dunno if you saw the discussion i had with S_a_i_n_t about that |
| 14:42:07 | Blue_Dude | No, didn't see that. |
| 14:42:35 | Torne | the action code already tries to filter out release events after a change of context |
| 14:42:44 | Torne | so, it should already be discarding the extra releases. |
| 14:42:56 | Torne | and it does, on my ipodvideo, if i let go of the buttons at the exact same time ;) |
| 14:43:16 | Torne | however, the code doesn't allow for multi-button combinations - if you let go of one button, then the other, the first one will get discarded byt the second one still counts |
| 14:43:18 | Blue_Dude | Torne: There were some objections to the use of splash for something like that. Even the "no hotkey set" brought a comment. |
| 14:43:45 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t found that he had to be *much* more precise with timing both to press and release the buttons |
| 14:43:49 | Blue_Dude | The yesno ought to be redesigned. |
| 14:43:54 | Blue_Dude | *Then |
| 14:44:03 | Torne | No, it's not a bug in yesno |
| 14:44:05 | Torne | it's the core action code |
| 14:44:23 | Blue_Dude | No, but it's in yesno that it matters. |
| 14:44:25 | Torne | yesno automatically benefits from this because CONTEXT_YESNO is different to whatever context you invoked the yesno from |
| 14:44:36 | | Quit FlynDice (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:44:51 | Torne | yeah. so i was gonna look and see about fixing this in action.c, because this will solve other potential cases also |
| 14:45:07 | Torne | the difference in timing requirement between me and S_a_i_n_t is bizarre though |
| 14:45:12 | Torne | especially since our ipods use the same button driver :) |
| 14:45:17 | Blue_Dude | Probably. It's probably been lurking there for ages. |
| 14:45:35 | Torne | i can press either button first, and as long as i press the other button in less time than it takes to register the first as a long press it invokes the hotkey stuff |
| 14:45:44 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t has to be really, really exact and press them perfectly at once |
| 14:45:45 | Blue_Dude | That is strange. Are you a gamer? :) |
| 14:45:52 | Torne | yes :) |
| 14:45:56 | Torne | but seriously, i estimate maybe 200ms is okay |
| 14:45:58 | Blue_Dude | Well there you go. |
| 14:46:18 | Torne | the difference seems profound enough that it can't be explained away as reaction times.. |
| 14:46:25 | Blue_Dude | Anything less than "long press" should be OK. |
| 14:46:28 | Torne | Indeed |
| 14:46:43 | Torne | it is, for me |
| 14:46:48 | Torne | just not him |
| 14:46:54 | Blue_Dude | Hm. |
| 14:46:54 | Torne | It's why he can't ever say yes to the yesno, though |
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| 14:47:00 | Torne | the same timing applies on release, i assume |
| 14:47:15 | Torne | so he would also hav eto release them exactly simultaneously for it to be just one event and correctly get deleted by action.c |
| 14:47:29 | Blue_Dude | That's what the key patch was supposed to work around. |
| 14:47:29 | Torne | If I let go of them "at once" i get the yesno prompt and i can say yes |
| 14:47:41 | Torne | if I let go of them one at a time then it autocancels the yesno prompt, as he was seeing |
| 14:47:44 | Blue_Dude | It's not a general fix though. |
| 14:47:51 | Torne | Yah, i'm just saying; logically there should be absolutely no need to change the keymap here |
| 14:47:57 | Blue_Dude | Agree. |
| 14:48:03 | Torne | fixing the action.c issue should stop the spurious dismissals |
| 14:48:13 | Torne | but i am still puzzled about the separate issue of timing S_a_i_n_t is seeing |
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| 14:51:20 | Torne | is the ipod the only platform in common use where the hotkey is a combination? |
| 14:51:30 | Torne | i would've assumed this issue was generic |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:01:14 | | Join Jaqo [0] (~MaGix@41.206.154.178) |
| 15:01:19 | Jaqo | hi |
| 15:01:33 | markun | hi Jaqo |
| 15:01:42 | Jaqo | how r u |
| 15:02:46 | markun | I'm fine, but this channel is actually only for talking about rockbox. |
| 15:03:26 | Jaqo | whats this ? |
| 15:03:39 | markun | http://www.rockbox.org/ |
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| 15:03:49 | | Join antil33t [0] (~Mudkips@203-184-54-232.callplus.net.nz) |
| 15:03:49 | Jaqo | ty |
| 15:04:04 | | Part Jaqo |
| 15:04:37 | Blue_Dude | OK, I've got the partial revert set up. Behavior will be the same, but without the new icon. Instead, another will take its place, one that isn't currently used in the menus. |
| 15:06:30 | Blue_Dude | If I had to pick one, I'm thinking the walking feet, Icon_Preset. It's barely used, and then only for .fmr files in the file view. It doesn't say "hotkey" to me, but maybe the feet = quick access association is there. |
| 15:06:45 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25872): mpegplayer: make button timeout half the OSD update interval so that it updates the indicators properly when not holding a key. Add capability to show ... |
| 15:07:55 | | Quit Guest534 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 15:08:25 | pixelma | Blue_Dude: I'm not sure I like another icon replace the usual one because an item is hotkeyable. Imagine everything would be hotkeyable then you only get one icon |
| 15:08:48 | Blue_Dude | If everything was hotkeyable, you wouldn't *need* an icon. |
| 15:09:15 | Blue_Dude | If you object to a particular use, it's easy enough to mark which you don't want replaced. |
| 15:11:34 | Blue_Dude | Another good possibility is the right pointing green arrow, Icon_Moving. It's only used in the playlist viewer. |
| 15:12:03 | Torne | Blue_Dude: i think you are not helping people's objectinos here |
| 15:12:13 | Torne | Having some icons different is going to mamke people wonder why they are different |
| 15:12:22 | Torne | and most people don't read the manual, as we know ;) |
| 15:12:28 | pixelma | every one. And the argument brought up before is true. We don't mark items which can be placed in the quickscreen either. Despite the fact that I still don't like the new and different ui for seting hotkey too |
| 15:12:42 | Torne | i don't think hotkeying stuff is an important enough use case that it needs to be marked |
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| 15:13:15 | pixelma | it doesn't matter how the icon looks |
| 15:13:51 | Blue_Dude | Well there was already some complaining that you have to go to the manual to find out which was which. And you said yourself that it was confusing that some gave feedback and others were silently ignored. |
| 15:15:07 | Torne | yes, but I specifically expected (without having read any of the docs, just being aware that the hotkey thing existed) that i would get feedback *when i tried to hotkey something not hotkeyable) |
| 15:15:13 | Blue_Dude | This gets back to the old debate: is Rockbox going to be made so that you never have to reference the manual, or not? If so, then there are already way too many features. |
| 15:15:36 | Torne | is it supposed to actually throw you out of the context menu when you do that, btw? |
| 15:15:42 | Torne | or is that more issues with ipod keys? :) |
| 15:16:29 | | Join dfkt_ [0] (~dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 15:16:34 | Blue_Dude | No, it behaves as though you'd hit any other invalid key. |
| 15:16:43 | Blue_Dude | Same as before. |
| 15:17:12 | Torne | ok, that's slihglty better then |
| 15:17:34 | Torne | (on ipod it throws you out of the context menu, though, at least at the moment when i tried it) |
| 15:17:41 | Torne | (which makes no sense since neither select nor play do that) |
| 15:18:24 | Blue_Dude | It did the same before IIRC. I can't remember. |
| 15:18:50 | Torne | i have no idea |
| 15:18:55 | Torne | i never pressed select+play before :) |
| 15:20:09 | | Quit dfkt (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 15:21:28 | Blue_Dude | What happens if you put in any other invalid keypres in the context menu? Nothing? |
| 15:21:56 | Blue_Dude | Nothing... |
| 15:22:06 | Blue_Dude | Let me take a look. |
| 15:22:38 | Torne | well, i think pondering the ipod behaviour too much without fixing what i'm pretty sure is a bug in action.c is probably a waste of time |
| 15:23:07 | Blue_Dude | It's not just the ipod. It throws you out of the context menu elsewhere too. |
| 15:23:36 | Blue_Dude | Ignoring the keypress is OK. Throwing you out of the menu entirely isn't. |
| 15:23:51 | Torne | Hm |
| 15:24:01 | Torne | I guess that's because it's generating something other than ACTION_NONE |
| 15:24:08 | Torne | and then not eating it? |
| 15:24:19 | pixelma | what about a simple setting "hotkey function" and then you get a usual list containing the possible options (if there aren't too many), and this menu devided into WPS hotkey and list hotkey? |
| 15:24:19 | Torne | whereas actually unmapped stuff is just ACTION_NONE |
| 15:25:28 | | Quit freddy_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 15:25:47 | Blue_Dude | pixelma: The idea was a context menu mod. You're expanding it somewhere else. I don't see why it wouldn't work. |
| 15:26:23 | Blue_Dude | Torne; I can fix the "throw out" behavior in menu.c. Don't worry about it. |
| 15:26:34 | Torne | ah ok |
| 15:30:55 | pixelma | Blue_Dude: sorry, can you rephrase "you're expanding it somewhere else" |
| 15:30:57 | pixelma | ? |
| 15:31:57 | Blue_Dude | Means you're potentially expanding functionality beyond the confines of the context menu itself. Duplicating effort. |
| 15:32:32 | Blue_Dude | But as I said, I don't why it wouldn't work. |
| 15:32:46 | pixelma | huh, I still don't understand |
| 15:33:47 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25873): mpegplayer: One last dealie-O for now: Change all "WVS" usage in the code for identifiers to "OSD". |
| 15:36:17 | | Join bilditup1 [0] (~bilditup1@bzq-79-178-134-143.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 15:36:21 | bilditup1 | hey all. |
| 15:37:37 | pixelma | Blue_Dude: I thought of this usual menu style replacing the unique thing that's there now |
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| 15:39:15 | AlexP | I also don't like the icons changing for hot-keyable icons |
| 15:40:10 | AlexP | At least not by default. If people want to do it themselves, then fine |
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| 15:46:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 15:50:16 | Blue_Dude | Fixed. New on/off menu item for that. |
| 15:50:29 | Blue_Dude | Defaults to off. |
| 15:51:08 | pixelma | :\ |
| 15:51:31 | Blue_Dude | IOW, no change to current behavior. |
| 15:51:43 | Blue_Dude | What's wrong with that? |
| 15:51:51 | AlexP | Should this not just be a themeing option? |
| 15:52:09 | AlexP | i.e. theme authors decide whether to use a different icon? |
| 15:52:10 | Blue_Dude | I put it in the hotkey menu. |
| 15:52:21 | pixelma | more complication when I think it could be more simple in general |
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| 15:55:39 | AlexP | Blue_Dude: I don't mind too much, as long as it is off by default as it is :) |
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| 16:00 |
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| 16:05:25 | S_a_i_n_t | Blue_Dude: The icon for *all* context menu items is the "yellow diamond thing" is it not? |
| 16:05:46 | S_a_i_n_t | why not use the "blue plus sign" for hotkayable" items? |
| 16:06:09 | Blue_Dude | S_a_i_n_t: not all of them. Submenus use the cross thing. There are other custom icons. |
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| 16:06:47 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmm..ok, um... |
| 16:06:48 | Blue_Dude | That's why I was trying to pick something you won't otherwise see in a menu. |
| 16:08:20 | S_a_i_n_t | by "walking feet thing", do you mean icon No.11? (assuming the first icon is icon 0)? |
| 16:08:48 | S_a_i_n_t | I always thought that was 2 exclamation marks side by side |
| 16:09:05 | S_a_i_n_t | *assuming you do mean that icon... |
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| 16:11:35 | S_a_i_n_t | Blue_Dude: What about icon No.9 [weird pointy-circle-orange-sun thing] (again, assuming the first icon is No.0) for hotkeyable items...I've been playing around just quickly now and can't see that icon appear in the default context menu. |
| 16:12:22 | Blue_Dude | It's for plugins. I considered that one. I'm using the right green arrow at the moment. |
| 16:12:57 | pixelma | isn't that the one used for the pointer selector? |
| 16:13:10 | Blue_Dude | No that's a different one. |
| 16:13:15 | S_a_i_n_t | I thought about the arrow...but to me that signified the cursor for the line selector |
| 16:13:29 | S_a_i_n_t | ahh..like pixelma just said. |
| 16:13:41 | Blue_Dude | There's a right pointing triangle and a right pointing arrow. |
| 16:13:56 | Blue_Dude | I've got the arrow right now. |
| 16:15:04 | S_a_i_n_t | The "pointy sun thing" (even if it is for plugins) is what /I/ would use personally...but, this projest is hardly to please my sole aesthetic taste ;P |
| 16:15:20 | Blue_Dude | Hey, aren't settings changed in the MENUITEM_SETTING menus supposed to save their state? |
| 16:15:24 | S_a_i_n_t | *project even. |
| 16:17:07 | pixelma | what about the built-in (compiled in) icons btw.? |
| 16:17:38 | Blue_Dude | Which? They're indexed the same way. That's a theme option. |
| 16:17:42 | S_a_i_n_t | ...what of them? |
| 16:18:23 | pixelma | well, some targets use those instead of the tango icons (all smaller screen targets), what icon will they show? |
| 16:18:43 | S_a_i_n_t | they would show the same I assume...but in mono/whatever |
| 16:19:03 | Blue_Dude | The same icon. You don't get to pick the "color" version, just whichever one is loaded by the theme. |
| 16:19:04 | S_a_i_n_t | s/the same/the same as the other targets/ |
| 16:19:07 | pixelma | besides I'm still not convinced about this marker thing at all |
| 16:19:25 | pixelma | even when disabled |
| 16:19:28 | S_a_i_n_t | lucky it's not a democracy then ;) |
| 16:19:30 | Blue_Dude | Default is off, pixelma. What else do you want? |
| 16:19:58 | pixelma | a more simple ui for this, as I said. Less complication |
| 16:20:17 | Blue_Dude | I like it. It doesn't hurt anything. A few other folks asked for it. Don't turn it on if you don't want it. |
| 16:20:21 | pixelma | making a menu option for this even adds to the complication |
| 16:20:44 | pixelma | ram usage and bin size increase sure hurts |
| 16:21:14 | pixelma | and code complexity for those who code there |
| 16:21:21 | Blue_Dude | I'm reverting the bin and RAM problem. All that will be left is a menu item and about two lines of code. |
| 16:22:26 | pixelma | didn't sound like it from your description because you want to keep the marker thing (in general) |
| 16:22:49 | Blue_Dude | The marker thing will be off by default. You won't even know it's there. |
| 16:23:33 | pixelma | but the code is still there |
| 16:24:33 | | Quit wincent (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 16:24:52 | pixelma | you never answered the argument about the quickscreen and the ui for setting the hotkey |
| 16:24:53 | Blue_Dude | Yes, about two lines of it, a menu item, and a new variable in global_settings. |
| 16:25:30 | Blue_Dude | No I didn't. If he wants a new icon for quickscreenable items he can do that. |
| 16:25:46 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 16:26:08 | kugel | Blue_Dude: a setting to toggle showing the hotkey icon? |
| 16:26:09 | pixelma | well, what made the solution now in SVN so complicated? |
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| 16:26:18 | kugel | please no... |
| 16:26:21 | | Join watto1 [0] (~watto@193.203.81.165) |
| 16:26:35 | Blue_Dude | What? |
| 16:26:43 | | Quit TheSeven (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:27:35 | Blue_Dude | pixelma: I don't know why it bloated so badly. The only actual code change was two lines of code in menu.c. I can only assume the bitmap change drove the bloat. |
| 16:27:45 | kugel | "Fixed. New on/off menu item for that." |
| 16:28:03 | | Quit watto (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:28:41 | Blue_Dude | Oh, there's a new menu item in settings. Not in the context menu. |
| 16:28:53 | Blue_Dude | Yeesh, no. |
| 16:29:18 | kugel | what setting? |
| 16:29:27 | kugel | what does it toggle? |
| 16:29:58 | Blue_Dude | Toggles icons on or off. Defaults to off. On if you want special icons. |
| 16:30:10 | kugel | please no... |
| 16:30:53 | Blue_Dude | Sigh. |
| 16:31:02 | pixelma | kugel: can you be abit more descriptive? It's hard to tell what you actually want or not want. Would help the discussion I think |
| 16:31:17 | kugel | I don't want such a setting |
| 16:31:25 | AlexP | I also would prefer not to have the option or the icons, but if it is a choice between having special icons for hotkeyable things and a menu option, then I'll chose icons off and an option. |
| 16:31:31 | Blue_Dude | kugel: btw, I'm getting a compile warning on the sim. In io.c. And now it won't save settings between sessions. |
| 16:31:37 | kugel | it's like letting the user decide what color the bikeshed should have |
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| 16:32:53 | Blue_Dude | I like my bikeshed to be green. |
| 16:32:58 | Blue_Dude | But that's just me. |
| 16:33:05 | pixelma | kugel: eh, then you can drop all the theme stuff. But do you want a marker for hotkeyable items at all or not? |
| 16:33:33 | kugel | I couldn't care less about whether there's an icon or not |
| 16:33:47 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25874): Fuzev1: calibrated discharge curve |
| 16:34:06 | Blue_Dude | I kinda care about the compile warning and no disk writes. |
| 16:34:21 | | Quit M3DLG (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 16:34:29 | S_a_i_n_t | kugel: well, that may be the case...but the 'average user' needs to be able to define what can/can't be set as a hotkey at a glance |
| 16:34:36 | kugel | Blue_Dude: you're on cygwin right? |
| 16:34:37 | AlexP | why? |
| 16:34:42 | Blue_Dude | Yeah. |
| 16:34:47 | S_a_i_n_t | if you can think of a better way to do that than an icon...I'm all ears. |
| 16:35:01 | Blue_Dude | Yeah to Cygwin. |
| 16:35:06 | AlexP | S_a_i_n_t: I think it is much more confusing to see some items with a random different icon and have no idea why |
| 16:35:08 | Torne | I don't see why that's useful or interesting |
| 16:35:10 | Blue_Dude | But it wasn't there before. |
| 16:35:13 | AlexP | S_a_i_n_t: And I don't think it needs doing at all |
| 16:35:22 | pixelma | S_a_i_n_t: again, do you know which items you can set for use in the quickscreen? |
| 16:35:24 | Torne | I think it's better without |
| 16:35:29 | AlexP | Torne: I agree |
| 16:35:30 | S_a_i_n_t | why would you not know why though? |
| 16:35:40 | AlexP | S_a_i_n_t: I don't know why |
| 16:35:40 | S_a_i_n_t | there is a setting to turn this on/off |
| 16:35:46 | AlexP | Which is not needed |
| 16:35:52 | AlexP | You set the hotkeys once |
| 16:35:54 | kugel | Blue_Dude: I have no access to cygwin atm :( |
| 16:35:55 | S_a_i_n_t | so, if you see different icons...you've turned that feature on yourself |
| 16:36:02 | AlexP | You don't need to see it all the time |
| 16:36:21 | AlexP | S_a_i_n_t: And the argument is that the setting is unecessary too |
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| 16:36:53 | pixelma | and you would see it easily if it all was an a setting itself. No messing around with icons and a weird UI to set the hotkey |
| 16:37:04 | Blue_Dude | kugel: OK. I posted the exact warning last night. Here: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20100507#04:25:39 |
| 16:37:04 | pixelma | s/an/in |
| 16:37:31 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t: *Why* do users need to be able to see what's hotkeyable at a glance? |
| 16:37:41 | Torne | It's "the logical things". |
| 16:37:48 | Torne | It's also "the things that work if you try and hotkey them" |
| 16:38:02 | Torne | same as the quickscreen |
| 16:38:09 | AlexP | exactly |
| 16:38:20 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: wasn't the idea of it being a list type setting rejected *loooong* ago though? leading to the way it is implemented now? I wouldn't blame Blue_Dude for wanting to pull his hair out over this... |
| 16:38:25 | kugel | yea, we should also have an icon for quickscreen'able stuff, and an option to toggle the icon! |
| 16:38:33 | Torne | kugel: well, both or neither, yes |
| 16:38:38 | Torne | it's totally illogical to have it for one and not the other |
| 16:38:44 | AlexP | S_a_i_n_t: And would you not blame every that doesn't want it for not pulling their hair out... |
| 16:38:45 | Torne | i vote for neither, but both is less dumb than one ;) |
| 16:39:03 | kugel | really, nobody ever raised that demand for the quickscreen, why does this seem to be so critical for the hotkey? |
| 16:39:22 | AlexP | kugel: It isn't, most people seem against it |
| 16:39:27 | evilnick_B | There should actually be more icons, one for hotkeyable, one for quickscreenable, one for hotkeyable AND quickscreenable etc. |
| 16:40:20 | kugel | Torne: I find the setting most dumb, IMO the whole icon is too minor to be worth a single byte on binsize, and the added menu structure complexity |
| 16:40:57 | pixelma | S_a_i_n_t: as far as I remember, Blue_Dude implemented the UI as it is now from the start (as far as it was open). It's been discussed here before and a context menu like setting was rejected because you would have a context menu in a context menu. I can't remember a discussion about a usual list style menu |
| 16:41:04 | kugel | evilnick_B: ah, you got a point |
| 16:41:46 | pixelma | the only drawback I see it could have is if the list becomes too long but from what I read here I gathered that there aren't that many things suitable for hotkey |
| 16:42:40 | S_a_i_n_t | pixelma: I suggested ages ago using long-select on a context item should bring up a simple splash "set as hotkey? yes/no" but that got thrown back at me *pretty damn quickly*...now it seems people want to go back there? |
| 16:42:48 | S_a_i_n_t | ... S_a_i_n_t shrugs |
| 16:43:31 | S_a_i_n_t | and to me, that seemed to be the least complicated way of doing it. |
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| 16:44:24 | pixelma | no, as I said that would be a context menu potentially in the context menu. I'm not talking about that and already said that I remember it being rejected |
| 16:45:10 | S_a_i_n_t | how would it be a context menu in a context menu? |
| 16:45:15 | n1s | why not have a context-context menu? :) |
| 16:45:22 | S_a_i_n_t | setting yes/no is hardly a 'context menu' |
| 16:45:45 | S_a_i_n_t | it's not a menu at all... |
| 16:46:29 | kugel | anyway, that's not the issue we're discussing |
| 16:46:44 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25875): Revert hotkey bitmaps |
| 16:47:24 | S_a_i_n_t | All I'm thinking about is long-select on a context item, if it can be set as a hotkey then simply splash "set as hotkey? yes/no". that seems nothing like a context menu inside a context menu to me...and also seems like it would be pretty damn easy to understand.use. |
| 16:47:37 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t: that's irrelevant to the current discussion, though :) |
| 16:47:48 | pixelma | S_a_i_n_t: it is a context menu (long Select on an item and the chose yes or no in this menu) |
| 16:47:53 | S_a_i_n_t | well...kinda |
| 16:48:00 | Blue_Dude | Stuck on "transmitting file data..." Help! |
| 16:48:04 | Torne | how you set something as a hotkey is orthogonal to how you tell that something is hotkey-suitable |
| 16:48:06 | S_a_i_n_t | if that was implemented...we wouldn;t be having the discussion ;) |
| 16:48:11 | Torne | S_a_i_n_t: er, why wouldn't we? |
| 16:48:16 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 16:48:25 | Torne | the icon thing is equally useful (or useless) whatever the method to set something as a hotkey |
| 16:48:32 | Torne | i don't see the relevance |
| 16:48:53 | S_a_i_n_t | yeah...I guess. |
| 16:49:10 | pixelma | Torne: not completely. As I said if you have every possible in a neat list you don't need other means to represent which is hotkeyable or not |
| 16:49:18 | Torne | pixelma: well, ok, yes. |
| 16:49:19 | | Join esperegu [0] (~quassel@145.116.15.244) |
| 16:49:36 | Torne | pixelma: but that's a different thing that would tkae time to implement |
| 16:49:44 | Torne | isn't the topic "should the icon thing be reverted"? |
| 16:49:56 | AlexP | yes, and yes, and done by the looks of it |
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| 16:51:43 | Torne | AlexP: no.. |
| 16:52:25 | pixelma | my understanding is that this change would make everything easier (icon thing isn't needed, so no setting for it) and setting the hotkey wouldn't have a unique way anymore |
| 16:53:01 | AlexP | Torne: Oh, just going by the commit message I thought that was what r25875 did |
| 16:53:08 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25876): Fix red |
| 16:53:13 | pixelma | Torne: I meant my suggestion with the above |
| 16:53:35 | Torne | ah, right. that is what he meant it to do :) |
| 16:53:41 | | Quit S_a_i_n_t (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 16:53:42 | Torne | there we go |
| 16:54:08 | AlexP | pixelma: I tend to agree - what are the arguments against have list a list setting for the hotkey stuff? |
| 16:55:07 | | Quit adnyxo (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 16:55:08 | pixelma | haven't seen any besides my own "might beecome too long" |
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| 16:57:01 | Blue_Dude | All better now? |
| 16:58:32 | AlexP | Blue_Dude: What about a list setting for hotkey stuff? |
| 16:58:45 | AlexP | and personally, yes - thanks |
| 16:59:56 | Blue_Dude | I don't have any objections to someone taking the changes to menu.c out and replacing them with a nested menu in settings. |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:14 | Blue_Dude | But it won't be me. I'm not interested in making those changes. |
| 17:02:45 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 17:03:45 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25877): Fix hotkey select behavior, ignore selection if menu item is not hotkeyable. Will not exit the context menu now |
| 17:09:57 | Blue_Dude | Torne: that one was for you. |
| 17:12:47 | | Part Zagor |
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| 17:14:18 | | Quit petur (Quit: connection reset by beer!) |
| 17:15:22 | Torne | Blue_Dude: thanks :0 |
| 17:15:28 | Torne | Blue_Dude: i'll see if i can sort the action.c issue at some point |
| 17:15:35 | Torne | which will hopefully fix the problems for ipod |
| 17:15:45 | Torne | (or in general targets where hotkey is a combination) |
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| 17:16:35 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 17:16:38 | Blue_Dude | Or we could go with "long select" to set a hotkey in the menu. }:-) |
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| 17:19:38 | | Quit B4gder (Quit: It is time to say moo) |
| 17:20:22 | funman | according to http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14064.0;attach=4211;image , r25845 needs 37mA for the Fuze, while last time I measured it needed 65mA |
| 17:21:09 | | Join Schmogel [0] (~Miranda@p3EE21842.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:21:17 | kugel | v1? |
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| 17:23:18 | funman | yes |
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| 17:23:57 | kugel | no improvement from the dram patch? |
| 17:24:25 | funman | all i have is this graphic |
| 17:24:42 | funman | and I can't really tell a difference between red and blue curves |
| 17:24:53 | | Quit Schmogel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:25:05 | kugel | ah, the patch was applied to an older svn, so it should be compared to the green line |
| 17:25:20 | | Quit Schmo (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 17:25:35 | Blue_Dude | Something weird is going on in the sim since the file system changes were committed. All disk writes set the file to read only, and you obviously can't save changes again afterward. |
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| 17:26:27 | funman | kugel: but green is not the most recent too |
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| 17:27:47 | Blue_Dude | Sets config.cfg to read only after a write. |
| 17:30:12 | Blue_Dude | For what it's worth, long select within the context menu works well to select a hotkey. The code has changed enough in the last few weeks to make that no longer a problem. |
| 17:30:52 | Blue_Dude | So we could go with that and fix the yesno and action.c problems later. |
| 17:33:37 | kugel | Blue_Dude: something is wrong here too |
| 17:34:23 | | Quit lpereira (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 17:34:24 | Blue_Dude | kugel: You mean with readonly? |
| 17:34:44 | kugel | well, worse |
| 17:35:31 | Blue_Dude | "Worse"? That covers a lot of ground. |
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| 17:38:01 | kugel | editing a text file in the text editor and saving it makes it 0 bytes |
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| 17:39:36 | Blue_Dude | That might be the case if you create a file as readonly then try to save to it. |
| 17:40:08 | funman | perhaps strace can help? |
| 17:40:18 | kugel | that's a file with 0644 |
| 17:40:27 | funman | http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2010-May/088151.html "is there someone who wants |
| 17:40:31 | funman | to work on merging the rockbox fixed point decoders back into ffmpeg?" |
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| 17:52:24 | kugel | Blue_Dude: hm, it also doesn't work after reverting the io.c changes |
| 17:53:01 | | Quit esperegu (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:53:10 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Yeah, I don't think it's in io.c. I tried changing the va cast in line 347 to avoid the warning and it is still a problem. |
| 17:53:20 | | Quit freddy_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 17:53:45 | Blue_Dude | kugel: with the posix change, did you change the way files are opened? |
| 17:54:41 | kugel | well, a bit |
| 17:54:55 | kugel | but in a way that should be more correct |
| 17:56:43 | Blue_Dude | Hm. Are you really *sure* it isn't setting the readonly attribute anywhere when it writes to a file? |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:00:11 | Blue_Dude | kugel: BTW, I changed io.c, line 347 to this: |
| 18:00:14 | kugel | yea, pretty |
| 18:00:17 | Blue_Dude | - ret = OPEN(get_sim_pathname(name), opts, va_arg(ap, mode_t)); |
| 18:00:19 | Blue_Dude | + ret = OPEN(get_sim_pathname(name), opts, va_arg(ap, unsigned int)); |
| 18:00:43 | Blue_Dude | It gets rid of the warning but it's not "pretty" |
| 18:00:50 | kugel | open() is always called with 0666 |
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| 18:01:05 | Blue_Dude | I don't know what 0666 is, but it sounds bad. :) |
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| 18:03:04 | Blue_Dude | For some reason, the compiler doesn't like the mode_t type in the va_arg cast. |
| 18:05:06 | kugel | not all types can be used with va_arg, presumably it's one of the incompatible ones on cygwin |
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| 18:08:14 | kugel | adding a printf() shows that open (the system's one) is called with 0666 |
| 18:08:56 | bluebrother | domonoky: I'm planning to change RbUtilQt to keep track of the windows it spawns. This will also make it easier for the UI rework I'm planning to do eventually. Any arguments against this? |
| 18:09:23 | domonoky | how do you want to track that ß |
| 18:09:50 | bluebrother | well, just track the pointers to the objects created with new() :) |
| 18:10:49 | bluebrother | like, when creating a bootloader install object have a class pointer instead of a local one, and thus being able to delete the object when it's finished |
| 18:11:15 | domonoky | ah, yes that sounds fine. |
| 18:13:08 | * | domonoky thinks the bootloader switch case which creates the bootloader objects, should move into bootloaderinstallbase.cpp like its done for TTS objects. |
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| 18:15:57 | bluebrother | domonoky: as in "return me the correct object"? |
| 18:16:00 | | Join domonoky1 [0] (~Domonoky@g229099148.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:16:11 | bluebrother | but that switch is getting longish indeed. |
| 18:16:19 | domonoky1 | yes.. |
| 18:16:42 | domonoky1 | getBootloaderInstaller(qstring name); |
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| 18:17:30 | | Quit domonoky (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 18:18:16 | bluebrother | I wouldn't call it get*, we don't have any get* methods (following the Qt style) |
| 18:18:27 | bluebrother | but sounds fine otherwise |
| 18:18:47 | CIA-5 | New commit by bluebrother (r25878): Add repeat counting to system trace. ... |
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| 18:21:03 | domonoky1 | bluebrother: any idea for a good name ? |
| 18:21:26 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Have any problems with my changing the cast in io.c and committing it? Cygwin has a cow. |
| 18:21:42 | kugel | does that fix anything for you? |
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| 18:23:18 | Blue_Dude | It avoids the compile warning and mode_t is typedef'ed to unsigned int. |
| 18:23:19 | | Quit freddy_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 18:23:23 | Blue_Dude | So no change there. |
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| 18:24:28 | | Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
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| 18:28:50 | bluebrother | domonoky1: maybe createMethodInstaller(QObject* parent, QString method)? |
| 18:29:19 | bluebrother | "target" would be a bit ambiguous here even though I'm not too happy with "method" |
| 18:29:57 | domonoky1 | just use createBootloaderInstaller(QObject* parent, QString type) ? |
| 18:30:11 | kugel | Blue_Dude: err, I found some bug :\ |
| 18:30:27 | Blue_Dude | Uh oh. What was it? |
| 18:30:30 | | Quit dfkt (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 18:31:06 | kugel | Blue_Dude: casting to int is fine actually. it's passed as a variable parameter (i.e. unspecified type) and IIRC the default type is int |
| 18:31:25 | kugel | the default type for integer literals I mean |
| 18:31:45 | kugel | shadowing fd in open_wrapper() in plugin.c \ |
| 18:32:13 | bluebrother | domonoky1: that's also an option. |
| 18:32:19 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Since mode_t is an unsigned int, I'll change the cast to that. I don't want to change something inadvertently. |
| 18:32:45 | kugel | I'll commit the fix (and the cast), don't worry |
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| 18:34:35 | Blue_Dude | k, thanks! |
| 18:34:55 | Blue_Dude | I didn't know if anyone was seeing it but me. |
| 18:35:12 | Blue_Dude | Cygwin sim builds don't come up all that often. |
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| 18:35:42 | CIA-5 | New commit by pondlife (r25879): Minor const police raid. |
| 18:36:51 | kugel | Blue_Dude: what you cast it to doesn't matter really, as the caller needs to re-cast it. |
| 18:37:40 | Blue_Dude | OK. Just didn't want avoidable issues later with code I don't understand all that well. :) |
| 18:37:41 | bluebrother | hmm, the front page not reflowing commit messages can produce quite interesting looking output :o |
| 18:37:58 | kugel | Blue_Dude: does that work http://pastie.org/950314 ? |
| 18:38:02 | kugel | callee* |
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| 18:38:43 | pondlife | Sorry - yellow fixage coming up.. |
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| 18:41:05 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Gak. How do you use patch with that? |
| 18:41:16 | CIA-5 | New commit by pondlife (r25880): Fix yellow. |
| 18:41:19 | kugel | I don't understand |
| 18:41:33 | kugel | ah, I think you want -p1 |
| 18:41:40 | Blue_Dude | I use diff and patch. How do I feed that to patch it... |
| 18:41:54 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 18:42:17 | Blue_Dude | OK, -p1 worked. |
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| 18:45:18 | Blue_Dude | kugel: io.c line 348 conflicting types for 'mode'. 346 previous declaration was here. 346 unused variable 'mode'. |
| 18:46:14 | kugel | oops, try this one |
| 18:46:15 | kugel | http://pastie.org/950330 |
| 18:46:36 | | Quit esperegu (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 18:47:43 | Blue_Dude | Getting rid of line 346 makes it behave. |
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| 18:49:20 | | Part pondlife |
| 18:50:20 | Blue_Dude | Yeah, that last looks OK. I didn't repatch with it, only changed io.c manually to match. |
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| 18:54:35 | Blue_Dude | kugel: pastie 950330 compiles OK. |
| 18:56:34 | kugel | cool |
| 18:56:44 | CIA-5 | New commit by kugel (r25881): Fix disastrous variable shadowing, change casts to unsigned in (cygwin doesn't like mode_t there, and unsigned int should be equally correct) and ... |
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| 19:04:59 | funman | kugel: have you opened fuzev2 already? |
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| 19:06:04 | adb | hey, is there a current SVN source archive available to download anywhere? |
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| 19:06:35 | bluebrother | adb: get it from svn ... |
| 19:06:52 | kugel | funman: no |
| 19:07:13 | Blue_Dude | kugel: \o/ |
| 19:07:26 | funman | krazykit: do you have pics of the fuzev2 battery? |
| 19:07:34 | adb | no access to svn right now, there used to be an archive on the build page, just wondering if it's been *moved* or *removed* |
| 19:07:42 | Torne | we don't build it any more |
| 19:07:46 | Torne | it's very big |
| 19:07:48 | bluebrother | it's been removed |
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| 19:07:52 | adb | okies, thanks |
| 19:08:00 | funman | is svn over http possible? |
| 19:08:09 | bluebrother | it isn't useful at all, if you want svn code get it from svn. Makes it much easier to update anyway |
| 19:08:11 | Torne | funman: yes. svn over http is usual, in fact |
| 19:08:17 | bluebrother | funman: yes, but that needs to get setup :) |
| 19:08:19 | Torne | the native svn protocol is recommended not to be used |
| 19:08:22 | Torne | because it sucks |
| 19:08:25 | funman | i mean possible for rockbox source |
| 19:08:29 | Torne | oh. no. |
| 19:08:34 | * | bluebrother doesn't consider svn via http as usual |
| 19:08:52 | Torne | bluebrother: well, the svn developers recommend you use it, and say that hte native protocol sucks :) |
| 19:08:58 | Blue_Dude | kugel: Sim readonly is fixed. Compiles clean. Thanks. |
| 19:09:04 | Torne | and every other svn repo i have access to other than rockbox is http |
| 19:09:07 | bluebrother | Torne: interesting, haven't heard about that. |
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| 19:09:27 | Torne | bluebrother: the native protocol has only ever existed because CVS had one |
| 19:09:38 | Torne | at no stage was it considered preferable by the devs |
| 19:10:10 | Torne | they expect you to use http or svn+ssh |
| 19:10:54 | bluebrother | I've seen quite a few servers using svn://. That might have been changed, though. Never paid too much attention to that. |
| 19:11:40 | Torne | heh |
| 19:11:48 | Torne | the manual claims differently, so maybe i am wrong |
| 19:12:01 | Torne | but i have been told in the past when asking for help with it to give up and use http :) |
| 19:14:05 | bluebrother | setting up svn:// is definitely much easier than http:// |
| 19:14:14 | Torne | setting it up *trivially* yes |
| 19:14:21 | Torne | setting up with proper encryption/authenticatoin/etc no |
| 19:14:55 | funman | who want to steal rockbox svn passwords anyway |
| 19:15:32 | bluebrother | well, svn:// can't do encryption at all :) |
| 19:16:09 | Torne | the "normal" config i've seen is http for read only access, and svn+ssh for writes |
| 19:16:29 | Torne | but that requires local accounts for committers |
| 19:16:44 | bluebrother | and if you want to do more sophisticated authentication svnserve is too limited (if suitable at all) |
| 19:17:06 | bluebrother | though having http:// for read access for the Rockbox svn repo would be nice. |
| 19:17:11 | pamaury | I seems to me that the usual svn config is http for read and svn+ssh access, ssh doing basically all the encryption/auth work |
| 19:17:25 | Torne | http for read is very easy as long as you control the machine that hosts it |
| 19:17:34 | Torne | you just shove the modules into apache and add about three lines |
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| 19:20:02 | Torne | i dunno who hosts it and where, but if that's a feasible thing to do then it would probably be good ot do it |
| 19:22:19 | | Quit freddy_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 19:24:01 | Blue_Dude | FS #11247 is reopened for comments. The icon patch is there. If you want hotkey icons, that's the place to look. |
| 19:25:56 | | Join Xerion [0] (~xerion@82-170-197-160.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 19:26:53 | Blue_Dude | I also want to propose changing the "hotkey set" key in the context menu to long select. It works better than using the hotkey keypress itself in that role, especially when it's a combo. |
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| 19:33:45 | Blue_Dude | You know you're just going to complain if I go ahead and commit it anyway, so you might as well get it off your chest now. :) |
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| 19:54:30 | AlexP | Torne: The Swedes on a machine they control |
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| 20:18:45 | CIA-5 | New commit by Domonoky (r25882): rbutil: move bootloaderInstall object creation switches to bootloaderInstallBase . |
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| 21:24:40 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25883): Revert r25861, to avoid hiding real errors |
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| 21:25:40 | * | gevaerts expects yellow |
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| 21:27:43 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25884): Fix size_t handling in plugin_get_buffer() |
| 21:35:10 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25885): fix one more size_t/ssize_t misuse |
| 21:36:57 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25886): Fix possible buffer overflow |
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| 21:50:10 | * | gevaerts shouts at doom |
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| 21:54:46 | kugel | gevaerts: what's up with doom? |
| 21:55:34 | gevaerts | it aliases |
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| 21:56:35 | gevaerts | It has two struct types that start with the same few members, and it casts between pointers to them |
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| 21:58:09 | ishottuify | can someone help me identify the parts on this pcb > http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GoGearSA5245_SA5285 |
| 21:58:19 | kugel | gevaerts: it does a lot other bad stuff too |
| 21:58:29 | kugel | doom is the reason we don't do eabi yet |
| 21:58:33 | gevaerts | kugel: it probably counts as ancient code by now :) |
| 21:58:35 | CIA-5 | New commit by Buschel (r25887): Refactor mpc's requantization to use identical macros for each subframe. |
| 21:59:22 | kugel | gevaerts: what are you trying do? (the build table shows no warnings in doom) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:52 | gevaerts | I'd like to get rid of -fno-strict-aliasing everywhere |
| 22:00:57 | kugel | ishottuify: telechip soc (tcc8300). presumably samsung ram |
| 22:01:39 | kugel | gevaerts: you could add -fno-strict aliasing for doom only if it's unsolvable |
| 22:01:53 | kugel | just to warn you, the ams dbop driver also aliases ;) |
| 22:04:46 | kugel | ishottuify: the cirrus chip is probably the rtc |
| 22:05:23 | kugel | I guess the toshiba one is the nand, I cannot identify the other chips |
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| 22:06:20 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25888): Remove -fno-strict-aliasing for everyone |
| 22:06:37 | * | gevaerts expects yellow for doom and midiutil |
| 22:06:52 | ishottuify | kugel: thanks for your help |
| 22:09:19 | kugel | ishottuify: we have some telechip code in svn (cowond2 most priminently) although no tcc830x specific code. you might also want to look at the tccboot utility (or whatever it's called) |
| 22:09:52 | kugel | gevaerts: I thought that only applied for gcc 4.1.x? |
| 22:10:25 | gevaerts | kugel: and higher |
| 22:10:26 | petur | RED |
| 22:11:04 | kugel | right, but only mips uses higher something higher than 4.0.x? |
| 22:11:17 | CIA-5 | New commit by gevaerts (r25889): Fix (hopefully) last aliasing bug (midiutil), and enable -fno-strict-aliasing again for zxbox and doom (no easy fix there) |
| 22:11:22 | gevaerts | kugel: also eabi :) |
| 22:11:41 | kugel | ah yes, but that's not on the build table |
| 22:11:54 | gevaerts | no, but I've done some local tests |
| 22:12:32 | gevaerts | Also, that red is false! |
| 22:12:39 | kugel | I wonder why there are reds for builds that are done with 4.0.3 |
| 22:12:41 | gevaerts | "note: initialized from here" is not an error |
| 22:12:54 | gevaerts | kugel: there aren't |
| 22:13:10 | kugel | ah, sim :/ |
| 22:13:16 | * | kugel hides |
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| 22:15:42 | ishottuify | kugel:by tccboot utility do you mean tcctool...? |
| 22:17:22 | bluebrother | seems it's time to call for removing doom once more :) |
| 22:17:52 | kugel | ishottuify: yea I think so |
| 22:22:15 | evilnick_B | So, patches on the mailing lists? IMHO, we need to keep everything in one place and that's what's Flyspray is for |
| 22:22:46 | kugel | I don't think we *need* |
| 22:23:34 | evilnick_B | Fragmenting from one central place to more than one would lead to people being unsure where to post patches |
| 22:23:40 | kugel | I can understand that people prefer on everything in wrong place but I don't care much. but most, if not all, other foss projects accept both and some even prefer the ml so I don't see why we should act so weird |
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| 22:24:55 | kugel | but I don't understand the argument that we cannot track ml patches |
| 22:25:46 | bluebrother | evilnick_B: where's the problem in having a short look at the patch, and if it looks good asking the poster to put it on flyspray? |
| 22:26:35 | kugel | why go through fs and not commit it straight away? |
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| 22:27:33 | evilnick_B | bluebrother: I've got no personal objection to that whatsoever (not being a dev) but I thought that the general consensus would be to have just one place |
| 22:27:48 | ishottuify | kugel: where in the repository is the telechip code you mentioned above |
| 22:28:24 | bluebrother | if you can judge the patch because you are familiar with the affected code base and are willing to do it. But a patch sent to the ML might be non-trivial |
| 22:28:37 | kugel | ishottuify: the tcctool should be in tools/, the code for older telechips firmware/target/tcc* |
| 22:28:45 | kugel | firmware/target/arm/tcc* |
| 22:29:23 | Llorean | I think it's pretty reasonable to ask, nicely, that patches posted to the ML be reposted to the tracker and that discussion happen there. |
| 22:29:25 | kugel | bluebrother: and flyspray helps there? |
| 22:29:37 | Llorean | The tracker can be sorted and searched nicely in ways that the ML cannot. |
| 22:29:55 | Llorean | The ML doesn't have categories, you can't filter "patches only" or see closed patches or so on. |
| 22:30:00 | kugel | post on ml, dicuss on ml - post on fs, discuss on fs. seems pretty interchangeable for me |
| 22:30:36 | bluebrother | kugel: yes, of course. Because a non-trivial patch is likely to require a couple of rounds going through it (in FS terms: comments and updated patches), and given that the ML is extremely low traffic I don't see this working on the ML |
| 22:30:40 | gevaerts | kugel: assuming a few days from post to commit, it's interchangeable. We don't have that though |
| 22:30:47 | Llorean | kugel: Tell me how to search the ML for only patches that claim to affect "playlist" and I'll buy that they're interchangeable. |
| 22:31:06 | Llorean | gevaerts: Even then, sometimes the history of a discussion of a patch is helpful. A commit with a FS# points you immediately at the discussion. |
| 22:31:47 | Llorean | In a very simplified "post, comment, commit" round they're interchangeable. But from a record keeping standpoint, FS is vastly superior for patches. |
| 22:32:15 | bluebrother | *if* there is a common style how to send patches to the ML (f.e. with subject lines always starting with "PATCH: <category>") then this can work easily. But it also requires that developers use the ML for shuffling around patches. Which isn't done on that list. |
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| 22:32:53 | Llorean | bluebrother: And we'd still need a standardized list of category names (and probably a way of referencing a specific mail when they get committed) |
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| 22:34:08 | bluebrother | Llorean: yes. We need at least some "general sense" how to handle those. Which we don't have as patches are usually not handled on the ML. |
| 22:34:11 | kugel | ok, I can see that fs is preferred, but do we really need to force people to use it if it's already posted on the ml? I can also imagine people being hesitent about registrating there |
| 22:34:31 | ishottuify | kugel: what do you mean my cowond2 |
| 22:34:44 | kugel | ishottuify: that's a dap that has a tccip |
| 22:34:45 | Llorean | kugel: Come up with a way to address the searching and record keeping issue yet, or just ignoring that? |
| 22:35:28 | bluebrother | for trivial patches that can go in almost immediately I don't see a reason to "force" people to use FS. For everything else, we do. Time is limited, and we can't afford to establish yet another partly working process just for people sending in patches rarely |
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| 22:36:29 | * | kugel finds discussing on mls much more convinient that on fs |
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| 22:36:56 | Llorean | kugel: How so? Both is "type text, click send" |
| 22:37:21 | * | bluebrother whispers "proper threading" |
| 22:37:27 | Bagder | with mail, you can pick your own client of choice |
| 22:37:28 | kugel | and quoting |
| 22:37:35 | kugel | and what Bagder said |
| 22:37:38 | * | gevaerts whispets "who clicks anyway?" |
| 22:38:20 | Llorean | Bagder: To an extent, there shouldn't be too many long term branches in the discussion of a patch, but that is a fair point. |
| 22:38:30 | Llorean | Er, that was to bluebrother |
| 22:38:37 | Bagder | :-) |
| 22:38:58 | gevaerts | Bagder: do you have opinions on http://pastebin.com/Zwmf4HHw ? |
| 22:39:00 | Llorean | But I'd still like to know how we'd track ML submissions like we do FS. |
| 22:39:05 | bluebrother | anyway, as the current status quo is to use FS for patches there's no point in using yet-something-else. If we feel that we need a better solution than FS we can always debate that and try to find something better. |
| 22:39:21 | bluebrother | IMO FS is quite a good tracker. I've seen much worse. |
| 22:39:22 | Bagder | gevaerts: no ;-) |
| 22:39:54 | Bagder | doing on the ML instead of FS takes a switch in mindset |
| 22:39:58 | kugel | I don't want to replace FS, but adding alternatives ways |
| 22:39:58 | Llorean | Right now FS allows categorical searches, something we can't really do on the ML except if you get people to agree to standardized subjects, and they'd become quite bulky to include all the information you can sort FS by |
| 22:40:12 | gevaerts | debbugs! |
| 22:40:19 | bluebrother | Bagder: indeed. Something like switching vom VCS to DVCS :) |
| 22:40:28 | gevaerts | Bagder: ok, I'll ask Zagor when he appears |
| 22:40:33 | Llorean | kugel: Do you have a proposal for how to make ML patches searchable then? |
| 22:40:56 | kugel | I can search my emails just fine in my client |
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| 22:41:09 | bluebrother | well, one thing would be an email interface to FS. You get a notification from FS, reply to it and it becomes a new comment in FS |
| 22:41:11 | Bagder | lots of even higher patch-volume projects than Rockbox deal with patches on the ML only, so it clearly can be done |
| 22:41:15 | Llorean | kugel: Yes, which doesn't help people who weren't previously subscribed to the list. |
| 22:41:28 | kugel | and there's software to search in mail archives. that's no rocket science |
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| 22:41:33 | gevaerts | bluebrother: yes, that's what debbugs does. You can even download a bug in mbox format |
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| 22:41:36 | Llorean | Bagder: Which is why I'm asking for a solution for how to make it as effective as FS, rather than just saying "we shouldn't do it" |
| 22:41:38 | bluebrother | Bagder: maybe that's because those *are* higher volume? |
| 22:42:05 | Bagder | Llorean: well, you then focus on the pros with FS, there are also several cons that the ML satifies |
| 22:42:14 | Llorean | kugel: I'm asking for a way to allow people not previous on the -dev list to search through patches on -dev relating to a specific subject. |
| 22:42:30 | Bagder | I'm not really taking a position here btw, I'm just talking |
| 22:42:52 | Llorean | Bagder: Yes, so the question becomes deciding listing the pros and cons of each, and deciding how much each matters to us. But you have to determine them first, and see which ones can be overcome or easily worked around. |
| 22:43:03 | Bagder | Llorean: typically on those projects, people repost their patch after a while if it wasn't dealt with |
| 22:43:05 | kugel | Llorean: search in mail archives as I said |
| 22:43:06 | bluebrother | http://bugs.flyspray.org/task/961 |
| 22:43:32 | Llorean | kugel: If I search in the mail archives for "patch" and "playlist" I'll probably not actually find any messages that includes a patch for playlisting behaviour. |
| 22:43:47 | * | bluebrother would start with deciding if we feel a need to change anything :) |
| 22:44:07 | bluebrother | searching in the mail archives is a real pain since Outlook and fullquotes |
| 22:44:11 | kugel | Llorean: the flyspray search is largely useless as well |
| 22:44:23 | bluebrother | the FS search works fine for me ... |
| 22:44:27 | kugel | if you couldn't select categories you'd hardly find what you want |
| 22:44:34 | evilnick_B | I've used the flyspray search a few times with very useful results |
| 22:44:36 | Llorean | kugel: I disagree. Constraining it to "patches" vs "bugs" is a huge benefit right there. |
| 22:44:41 | Bagder | the FS does have the downside that people submit something, and then it sits there and rots |
| 22:44:42 | kugel | bluebrother: it's too greedy imo |
| 22:45:24 | Llorean | kugel: "if you couldn't select categories?" What's the point of saying "the search would be terrible if you disabled some of its features?" |
| 22:45:27 | bluebrother | a big problem with searching is always how the users enter the text. If one mistypes "playlist" as, maybe "paylist" then a search for playlist won't find it. |
| 22:45:47 | bluebrother | that problem remains regardless of the tool used |
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| 22:46:38 | Llorean | Bagder: I'm not sure how much the ML could improve that though. That requires proactiveness on the part of the author, mainly |
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| 22:47:05 | evilnick_B | Typos are why there are specific categories |
| 22:47:09 | Bagder | Llorean: it makes it more clear that unless you stick around and keep nudging, your work gets left behind |
| 22:47:09 | gevaerts | Llorean: it changes how ignoring a patch is perceived |
| 22:47:32 | Bagder | its both good and bad |
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| 22:47:52 | bluebrother | having a set of categories you can pick the one that's matching best is definitely helpful for users. That's at least my experience. |
| 22:48:11 | kugel | topics on the ml are seen by everyone so there are much more people notified, no matter if one has knowledge about it or cares, I believe reduces the chances for rotting |
| 22:48:14 | evilnick_B | bluebrother: I agree |
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| 22:48:39 | bluebrother | kugel: just subscribe to rockbox-sf ... |
| 22:48:46 | Llorean | kugel: Only for people subscribed to the ML. It's just as easy to subscribe to tracker notifications. |
| 22:48:52 | Llorean | People simply choose not to. |
| 22:49:17 | Llorean | bluebrother: The categories also help a lot for someone like you, I imagine, who can search for things pertaining to rbutil or what not? |
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| 22:49:32 | evilnick_B | kugel: So what about automatically adding an email to the ML each time a FS patch is added? But then that would have the disadvantage of some replying to the ML post, and some on FS |
| 22:49:32 | kugel | Llorean: that requires an explicit action for each task, on the ml it's subscribing once |
| 22:50:02 | bluebrother | Llorean: definitely. I have a permanent search stored that shows me everything related to rbutil −− and manual (as I'm still following that loosely) |
| 22:50:04 | gevaerts | evilnick_B: we have a mailing list with that already |
| 22:50:26 | kugel | evilnick_B: I think that's a good idea, but I don't what you fear would happen (or only a few times if people are getting told for doing that) |
| 22:50:57 | * | kugel always forgets about rockbox-sf |
| 22:51:06 | bluebrother | kugel: wrong. There's already a mailing list, and that also requires subscribing once only. |
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| 22:54:36 | Llorean | kugel: Flyspray can be subscribed to via a ML or via RSS feed, making it actually pretty easy to hear about new tasks. |
| 22:57:14 | * | Llorean wonders why the ML is expected to get more attention anyway. |
| 22:57:27 | Llorean | Don't authors asking for comments on their patch on the ML often complain that even that doesn't work to get people to speak about it? |
| 22:58:46 | CIA-5 | New commit by funman (r25890): as3525v2: make sure volume is normal by writing Audioset2 register ... |
| 22:59:27 | AlexP | Either way, there was no need at all for the needlessly rude reply the patch e-mail got |
| 22:59:56 | | Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 22:59:57 | gevaerts | AlexP: right |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:05 | kugel | the other project I'm involved in allows patches send via both ways, and it works pretty well. and I definitely am more notified by the ml way and also tend to post a comment on the ml (because I find it more convinient) |
| 23:00:29 | Bagder | the large majority of the project I'm in do everything on the ML |
| 23:00:33 | Bagder | projects |
| 23:00:52 | bluebrother | did anyone say that patches on the ML are *disallowed*? |
| 23:00:55 | AlexP | I don't object/prefer either in principle, but given our already poor record on patch reviewing I think we ought to pick one and stick to iy |
| 23:01:23 | * | bluebrother agrees with AlexP |
| 23:01:33 | Bagder | I think we've already pretty much picked our way, it's not that easy to shift without a big intervention |
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| 23:02:12 | AlexP | Bagder: I was sort of edging towards that :) |
| 23:02:15 | kugel | Bagder: but maybe that shift is also not easy for contributors that are used to the ml procedure |
| 23:02:34 | kugel | where fs *might* scare them off |
| 23:02:40 | Bagder | I doubt that |
| 23:02:54 | bluebrother | monitoring two channels takes up more time and effort. If people are willing to do that I won't intervene. However, I do have a full time job and do have neither time nor interest in doing that. |
| 23:03:31 | Bagder | maybe you could quit your job and just do rockbox support for free? :-P |
| 23:03:33 | bluebrother | (and I guess a noticable amount of devs has the real world job issue) |
| 23:03:37 | * | AlexP will ask him politely to post to flyspray |
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| 23:06:44 | kugel | gevaerts: I tried to bring up a sdl-target-tree discussion a few times now, nobody answered. I would like to proceed with that |
| 23:07:18 | Llorean | Can the tracker be configured to automatically close tasks if they aren't commented on / updated within a certain amount of time? |
| 23:09:01 | | Quit intrados (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1) |
| 23:09:21 | gevaerts | kugel: I'd say "nobody answered" is a bit strong. We're just all digging our trenches to be ready for the *real* discussion :) |
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| 23:10:52 | gevaerts | kugel: Seriously though, maybe a detailed proposal on the wiki might help? |
| 23:10:57 | Bagder | Llorean: I don't think it can |
| 23:11:16 | bluebrother | you can always write a script that does ;-) |
| 23:11:36 | | Quit freddy_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:11:37 | Bagder | that you can |
| 23:11:55 | kugel | gevaerts: how detailed? the more detail is wanted the more I'd actually do part of the work already I think |
| 23:12:50 | kugel | I moved the audio bits to the target tree as an example (I linked it at some time here) which shows pretty much how it'll look like |
| 23:14:48 | gevaerts | kugel: a description of maybe a few paragraphs of what moves where and how the sim is impacted. Wiki or ML I'd say |
| 23:18:02 | bluebrother | Bagder: IIRC FS has support for dokuwiki wiki syntax. Is there a reason this doesn't work in our installation? |
| 23:18:12 | Bagder | I have no idea |
| 23:19:19 | bluebrother | would be nice to have. Like for marking quotations :) |
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| 23:36:56 | CIA-5 | New commit by Buschel (r25891): Unroll mpc's requantization loops for some (minor) speed up. |
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| 23:42:27 | CIA-5 | New commit by Buschel (r25892): Changes in test_mem plugin: Use correct formula to calculate KB/s, reasonable unrolling of read/write loops to better match memory bandwidth. |
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| 23:47:18 | kugel | Buschel: we have "HZ" for that :) |
| 23:48:18 | kugel | Buschel: x was not volatile for a reason |
| 23:48:23 | Buschel | hmm, you're right... :/ at least the results are correct now :) |
| 23:49:11 | kugel | buf is already volatile, so the read is not optimized. with x volatile as well you have both reads and writes in the read test |
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| 23:50:16 | kugel | since x is on the stack it's even worse |
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| 23:51:09 | Buschel | kugel: wouldn't the compiler reduce the 4 buf-reads to just the final one? |
| 23:52:26 | kugel | no |
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| 23:52:26 | kugel | I checked the disassembly. I also experimented with unrolling and it was still correct |
| 23:53:40 | Buschel | interesting. this change was indeed several weeks old. I just submitted this because of the incorrect caluclation of the result. |
| 23:53:40 | Buschel | maybe I'll roll back the "volatile" and use "HZ" after the next clean build has finished |
| 23:53:40 | kugel | sounds good |
| 23:56:14 | * | Buschel opens another beer |
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