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| 00:20:59 | preglow | amiconn: not, nothing immediate |
| 00:21:06 | preglow | s/not/noh/ |
| 00:21:23 | * | preglow tired, nightie |
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| 00:34:59 | mt | is it possible to disable plugins building ? |
| 00:35:28 | gevaerts | yes |
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| 00:36:13 | gevaerts | Have a look at ENABLEDPLUGINS in the generated makefile |
| 00:36:28 | gevaerts | I'm pretty sure that changing that will help |
| 00:39:25 | mt | thanks :) |
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| 01:00 |
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| 01:10:52 | TechnoKat | is there a random album playmode? |
| 01:17:34 | | Quit Zarggg (Quit: Leaving) |
| 01:21:19 | stripwax | TechnoKat - can you define that more precisely? Do you mean something like 'shuffle' or 'random album change when finishing this album'? |
| 01:21:33 | TechnoKat | at the end of each album |
| 01:21:37 | TechnoKat | switch to a new random album |
| 01:21:41 | TechnoKat | or folder really |
| 01:27:45 | | Quit flydutch (Quit: /* empty */) |
| 01:31:44 | mc2739 | TechnoKat: there is a setting under playback settings for Auto-change directory. One of the options is random. This requires a configuration file which can be created by running the random folder advance config plugin. This is all described in the manual. |
| 01:32:05 | TechnoKat | alright, i looked at that plugin |
| 01:32:12 | TechnoKat | i'll look at it some more |
| 01:32:42 | mc2739 | check the manual sections for playback settings and plugins |
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| 02:29:34 | kisak | rbutil + sansafuzev2 |
| 02:30:39 | kisak | I told it to update the bootloader to get that +1hr runtime goodness |
| 02:31:07 | kisak | and it dropped a file called fuzepa.bin onto the mp3 player |
| 02:31:55 | kisak | I believe the fuzev2 wants fuzpa.bin when updating firmware |
| 02:32:44 | kisak | seeing as fuzpa.bin envokes firmware update while fuzepa.bin does not |
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| 03:00 |
| 03:04:38 | bieber | I'm going to refactor my theme editor parsing code to work with parameter lists instead of coding individual parse functions for each tags (don't know why this didn't occur to me :/). For long term maintainability, would it be preferable to have configurations hard-coded as constants, or loaded from a configuration file? |
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| 03:09:15 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: Sorry for pinging you last night then leaving you hanging, I fell asleep for once (I know right?). I just thought I'd mention that my legacy items from the .sbs on shutdown have popped back up again. I thought you'd fixed them accidentally when you fixed the".sbs flashing on database init" but it must have been a fluke. I'm now seeing my battery and disk access icons drawn onscreen during (and after, which is the problem) shutdown. They fade gr |
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| 03:11:22 | S_a_i_n_t | I can pastebin the .sbs if you'd like, I can't see anything wrong with it but perhaps you can enlighten me. I'm not sure what I could be getting wrong to cause this though, and it's not consistent. It only seems to happen approximately 3 out of 5 shutdowns. |
| 03:12:06 | S_a_i_n_t | I can increase the odds of it happening by turning the player on, then turning it off immediately. |
| 03:12:52 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 03:14:43 | S_a_i_n_t | bieber: I'm not really a coder, but it seems to me that it would be easier to maintain/update a theme editor if the tags were in a config file as opposed to being hard-coded. |
| 03:16:36 | bieber | It should be easier, I guess my only real concern is whether it's a good idea to base critical functionality on a config file that has to be bundled with the program |
| 03:17:10 | S_a_i_n_t | I see your point. |
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| 03:41:02 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: zip up the theme and ill have a look |
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| 04:07:06 | Blue_Dude | fml: Good point re: hotkey tags. I'll go back and revisit them. They'll probably be gone in the morning. |
| 04:13:58 | zouhair | Hi, anyone here kind enough to take a look at my plight : http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=24754.0 |
| 04:20:56 | JdGordon | bieber: hey, what do you mean parameterised lists? |
| 04:21:33 | bieber | Just a list of the parameters to a tag and their types and properties |
| 04:22:10 | | Quit CGL (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 04:22:30 | bieber | i.e. something like 'V':width(int),height(int) ... and etc. I have no idea what format I'll actually end up using, but that sort of thin |
| 04:23:04 | bieber | That would be in a config file, anyways. If it's hard-coded, there'd just be a class that specified the parameters for a tag |
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| 04:24:41 | JdGordon | I had an idea to simplify the parser so it could be more easily used directly by the theme editor |
| 04:25:00 | JdGordon | right now each tag does its own parsing which means lots of extra work for you... |
| 04:25:22 | bieber | Right |
| 04:25:38 | bieber | That's why I wanted to replace that with a generic function that could just parse according to parameter lists |
| 04:25:57 | JdGordon | what would be nice is if the handler for each tag accepted a char** of parameters, so no parsing was done in them, the same parser could be used by both |
| 04:26:15 | JdGordon | i.e the parser would split %V|a|b|c| into a usable array by both |
| 04:26:59 | bieber | Sounds like a good idea, thanks |
| 04:27:33 | JdGordon | the problem is that to do that the format has to change, which was the talk about %xx(a|b|c) |
| 04:28:51 | JdGordon | how much work have you done on your parser? |
| 04:29:29 | bieber | I could still write a simple parser to recognize %ident(param'|')* or something like that |
| 04:30:05 | bieber | The parser I have now is fully functional for the tags I've implemented, and for the rest it's going to be mostly boilerplate, as they're generally pretty easy to parse |
| 04:30:16 | bieber | But that's still a lot of boilerplate, which is why I want to generalize the process |
| 04:35:55 | JdGordon | hmm... actually we could probably go directly to the full token array without using any special handlers? just copy the params into buffers and then handle them all at the end? |
| 04:36:29 | bieber | Possibly |
| 04:37:05 | bieber | I do like the ability to use polymorphism instead of massive switch statements, but that could be preferable to having a separate class for all those tags |
| 04:37:38 | JdGordon | this could also mean much better debug abilities |
| 04:38:03 | bieber | Oh? |
| 04:39:08 | JdGordon | well, now if a tag fails to parse itself it just fails and says which line it was on.. with this we could say "token xx expected a int for arg 3 but got 'a'" |
| 04:39:43 | bieber | That would be more helpful |
| 04:41:16 | JdGordon | ok, assuming tags must be in the form %aa %aa(b) or %aa(b|c|...) could a simple text->token array be done in c that we could share easily? |
| 04:41:56 | bieber | Very easily |
| 04:41:59 | JdGordon | the bloody ; "tag" is going to be annoying to handle |
| 04:42:37 | bieber | That would actually be regular, if all the parameters were guaranteed to be |
| 04:43:11 | * | JdGordon forgot conditionals |
| 04:43:28 | JdGordon | %?aa<text|text|more> |
| 04:45:23 | bieber | Aside from the conditional tags, do the others all require simple values as their parameters? |
| 04:46:25 | JdGordon | all except the playlist viewer which right now does its own tag parsing on the last 2 params |
| 04:47:02 | JdGordon | but I guess for that it could just run the full parser on them again |
| 04:47:27 | JdGordon | %Pv|0|%in - %ia|%fn| |
| 04:48:04 | bieber | Yep, it'll be the same way for the conditionals: I'll just recursively call the document parsing function on them |
| 04:49:18 | JdGordon | if an array isnt good for the final list we can fiddle with the displayed to work more nicely with whatever |
| 04:50:08 | bieber | Yeah, it'll have to be some kind of tree structure |
| 04:50:35 | bieber | Are you thinking about something that could be integrated into the theme engine or something? Since you were talking about a plain char* array and C code |
| 04:51:18 | JdGordon | yeah, I'd want to use the exact same code in rockbox for as much of the parser as possible |
| 04:52:07 | JdGordon | once the text is split into tokens and params you can go all c++y :) |
| 04:52:28 | bieber | That sounds like a good idea |
| 04:54:07 | bieber | If we're going to go down that road, I'd like to take it a step further and write a verifier the same way that could take the raw data and turn it into a parse tree that identified all the tags with enum values and checked their parameters and such |
| 04:54:48 | bieber | If the theme engine people integrated that code into the theme engine, then the editor could just link to the files there, and at least parsing compatibility would be automatic, if not necessarily display |
| 04:55:02 | JdGordon | sounds good |
| 04:55:20 | bieber | Do you work on the theme engine? Or do you know if anyone would be interested in pursuing that? |
| 04:55:26 | JdGordon | right now checkwps does the ferification, but as i said, the debug output sucks |
| 04:55:36 | JdGordon | yes |
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| 04:58:37 | JdGordon | the lib could be done in a way that it doesnt even care about known tags at all, just assume anything after % is always a tag, keept the identifier in plaintext then at the end turn the returned parse tree into a usable token tree/array/whatever |
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| 04:59:11 | JdGordon | or does that sound slow? |
| 04:59:25 | bieber | I don't think speed is going to be an issue, really |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:05 | bieber | That part is easy, I just figure that if I'm going to do the syntax parsing C-style, I might as well do verification too, so they can both be handled by Rockbox and the Theme Editor from the same code files |
| 05:01:14 | JdGordon | the verification needs to know what each tag requires for its params, so wouldnt that be seperate? |
| 05:01:22 | | Quit Barahir (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 05:01:44 | | Quit soap (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 05:03:12 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-aa2692d4.html <−− Here's that .zip you asked for. |
| 05:03:26 | JdGordon | so anyway, if you can do the parser, I can make the changes so the new tags will actually work untill your parser can be integrated? |
| 05:03:29 | | Quit Galois (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 05:03:44 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: nano right? |
| 05:03:57 | S_a_i_n_t | yeppers |
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| 05:04:44 | | Quit bieber (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
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| 05:05:37 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: It's the battery and disk access icons that get left onscreen after the player is shutdown...it doesn't happen consistently, pnly about 3 of 5 times. |
| 05:05:39 | | Join jpt9 [0] (~jpt9@unaffiliated/jpt9) |
| 05:05:47 | S_a_i_n_t | *only too |
| 05:05:53 | jpt9 | Hey. How well does Rockbox work on Sansa Clip v2s? |
| 05:06:03 | jpt9 | (I have one, and I'm actually pretty happy with the OF...) |
| 05:06:46 | jpt9 | (I know it's considered unsupported on the v2s...) |
| 05:10:20 | JdGordon | bieber: did you see my reply? |
| 05:10:39 | bieber | I don't think so |
| 05:10:46 | bieber | I got nothing after the last thing I sent |
| 05:10:53 | | Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean) |
| 05:11:45 | JdGordon | the verification needs to know what each tag requires for its params, so wouldnt that be seperate? |
| 05:12:30 | * | JdGordon sent a email to the dev-ml about the format changes |
| 05:12:47 | Llorean | Why exactly is the format changing? |
| 05:13:09 | JdGordon | to make it easier to read and parse |
| 05:13:28 | bieber | It may or may not be, I think it's probably best to keep them separate |
| 05:13:49 | bieber | I could still do it in the same style, though, and both files could be used in the theme engine if desired |
| 05:13:52 | Llorean | Shouldn't there be a significant discussion on what is "easier to read" then? Maybe hammer out a specific decision at devcon for how the tags should look, when a group can sit down and discuss it? |
| 05:14:15 | | Join shai_ [0] (~Shai@192.117.110.233) |
| 05:14:33 | Llorean | I mean, your easier to read might be someone else's spaghetti, so one or two people changing the tag format (in a way that breaks compatibility, at least) probably shouldn't happen |
| 05:14:40 | | Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 05:14:53 | JdGordon | bieber: unless you just mean if the syntax is correct.. otherwise you have to know what each tag exepcts to do proper verification |
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| 05:16:28 | Orion777 | does sansa fuze v2 require using .31 OF for rockbox? |
| 05:16:30 | Llorean | I mean, for example, I don't understand how () is any different from <> for lists. |
| 05:16:58 | JdGordon | Llorean: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20100509#16:47:22 |
| 05:17:10 | JdGordon | <> means conditional |
| 05:17:26 | bieber | JdGordon: I mean verifying that it's semantically correct. They would still be separate functions, but you could chain them together and end up with a verified parse tree at the end |
| 05:17:37 | JdGordon | sure, ok |
| 05:17:45 | | Quit shai (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 05:18:25 | bieber | i.e. |
| 05:18:25 | bieber | SyntaxTree* parseSyntax(FILE* fin); |
| 05:18:25 | bieber | ParseTree* verifyTags(SyntaxTree* rawData); |
| 05:18:25 | DBUG | Sent KICK bieber to server |
| 05:18:25 | bieber | or something like that |
| 05:18:25 | Kick | (#rockbox bieber :No flooding!) by logbot!~rockbox@giant.haxx.se |
| 05:18:54 | | Join bieber [0] (~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 05:19:09 | Llorean | JdGordon: So the idea is to make it quickly apparent when something is a conditional, and when it's something with parameters? |
| 05:19:14 | JdGordon | struct syntaxTree *parseSyntax(char *text) would be nicer :) |
| 05:19:28 | JdGordon | Llorean: yes |
| 05:19:40 | bieber | Yeah, I guess that will work better if you want to embed it in Rockbox |
| 05:19:51 | Llorean | Makes sense |
| 05:20:08 | bieber | And I apparently just got kicked for flooding? What's that mean, exactly? (IRC noob :/) |
| 05:20:18 | JdGordon | too many lines too quickly |
| 05:20:19 | Llorean | So you end up with a generic %Xd tag that takes which image to display as its parameter? |
| 05:20:25 | JdGordon | yes |
| 05:21:02 | bieber | Ah, got it |
| 05:21:14 | Llorean | JdGordon: There should *definitely* be a discussion of tag letter changes though (as per your possible idea in the email) |
| 05:21:37 | Llorean | There are a lot of them that can be very confusing because they seem related to other tags when they're not. |
| 05:21:54 | JdGordon | feel like putting a proposal forward? |
| 05:22:36 | Llorean | I might. I don't write themes, so I don't know if it might not just be better to leave the tags relatively close to what people have already learnt. |
| 05:23:30 | Llorean | But if I were to reorganize it, I'd probably make the first letter always a category letter. For example, most %pX tags are "playlist" related, but then you have %pV |
| 05:23:34 | | Quit Orion777 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 05:24:16 | JdGordon | I'm thinking time to change to 3 letter tags even |
| 05:24:28 | Llorean | That might improve things a lot. |
| 05:24:38 | Llorean | More room for clarity |
| 05:25:40 | JdGordon | we are at an annoying point in the release window now... so if we assume this doent go in till staright after the next release we have a few weeks to make that perfect |
| 05:26:06 | JdGordon | except I think the other changes should be quick so bieber's new awesome tokeniser can be usable soon :) |
| 05:27:04 | Llorean | It'd be nice not to break themes until after the release. What would you use the new tokeniser for in the release version? |
| 05:27:15 | Llorean | I imagine anything else that would benefit from it would also be big enough that it'd probably be a good idea to wait. |
| 05:27:56 | JdGordon | nothing, but the theme editor (or at least the parser) should work on known working themes |
| 05:28:01 | bieber | When you talk about three letter tags, would they all be three letters, or is that optional? |
| 05:28:42 | JdGordon | right now tags are 1 or 2 letters, usually 2. I'd say up to 4 letters with most being 3 |
| 05:29:11 | Llorean | JdGordon: I don't know if that's a good reason to have experimental new code in the release. |
| 05:29:27 | JdGordon | yeah, probably best to branch |
| 05:29:40 | bieber | Would it be the same structure you have now, where the first letter classifies it as part of a group of similar tags? |
| 05:29:41 | JdGordon | just thinking we need to work with GSoC timelines also |
| 05:29:47 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 05:29:48 | Llorean | Aren't there supposed to be SVN branches for the GSOC students to work in? |
| 05:30:26 | Llorean | bieber: At the moment, the first letter doesn't classify anything. There are some patterns, but it doesn't actually mean anything but a word. So "p" can mean "playlist" or "percent" or anything else that starts with P. |
| 05:30:56 | bieber | Oh, okay |
| 05:31:07 | Llorean | It'd be really, really nice if there were some classifications though |
| 05:31:29 | Llorean | If we said "use p for playlist, m for metadata, a for audio state, f for file properties..." |
| 05:31:33 | JdGordon | especially now that we have more than 1 screen where tags are usable |
| 05:31:48 | Llorean | And three letter tags would help keeping that flexible. |
| 05:33:11 | JdGordon | ABCD - A being optional is the skin it works in (Wps, Base, Fm, Rec, etc), B being general group (Metadata, Settings, etc), C being more specific group, D being tag |
| 05:33:51 | Llorean | Maybe A not being optional, and having a code for "all screens" |
| 05:34:37 | JdGordon | this part of the topic needs to be discussed, probably in the forum where the themers generally are more active |
| 05:35:57 | Llorean | Seems like a good idea. |
| 05:42:23 | JdGordon | actually i wonder if 4 is too many, making lines way too long |
| 05:43:05 | bieber | How many tags do you typically have on a line |
| 05:43:07 | bieber | ? |
| 05:43:48 | Llorean | Some people pile an awful lot of tags on a line. |
| 05:43:58 | Llorean | But in many cases they probably just don't know they can split lines up |
| 05:44:03 | JdGordon | 30+ isnt unheard of when using conditionals |
| 05:44:21 | Llorean | JdGordon: Though to be honest, a lot of those are volume bars and such, which can be replaced with progressive bars. |
| 05:45:01 | bieber | While we're changing things, why not allow multiple-line conditionals and the like without the comment hack? |
| 05:45:55 | JdGordon | yes, but how? require the line end with the |? |
| 05:46:00 | | Quit Forsaken (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]) |
| 05:46:41 | bieber | That could work |
| 05:47:00 | Llorean | I think the comment "hack" as it were looks / is pretty good actually |
| 05:47:12 | Llorean | Coming at the end of the line, it's a unique line-ending character. |
| 05:47:27 | bieber | I guess that makes sense |
| 05:47:47 | bieber | You could also consider the \ that a lot of formats use to allow explicit line continuations |
| 05:48:19 | JdGordon | %<line end> would be more consistent here |
| 05:48:33 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:49:12 | Llorean | I'd say \ or just #. A single character is nice, I think. |
| 05:49:37 | Llorean | The # is pretty much going to have to stay anyway, unless comments change to not eat lines (or can't be done mid-line) in the future. |
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| 06:00 |
| 06:02:49 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25940): MRobe100, HD200, Gigabeat F/X (anything with wm8750 or wm8751). Properly prescale bass and treble controls to avoid clipping. |
| 06:13:06 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25941): r25940 oops. No, no, no, that wasn't quite right. Must be truthful about the level in decidecibels for subsequent code. |
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| 06:20:41 | | Join Orion7 [0] (~IceChat7@c-71-204-140-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:21:15 | Orion7 | anyone have experience with sansa fuze/clip |
| 06:23:29 | Orion7 | I'm wondering if i decide to reset from OF .31 back .26 if it will effect my files(songs) |
| 06:23:51 | Orion7 | and if i have to upgrade to .31 instead of .28 |
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| 06:33:41 | Hillshum | Orion7: This is probably off topic. |
| 06:34:09 | Hillshum | It shouldn't, but you never know. |
| 06:34:57 | Orion7 | ok, more specifically does rockbox on fuze v2 require .31 OF |
| 06:41:17 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25942): More hotkey code cleanup |
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| 07:00 |
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| 07:33:21 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Shouldn't 1/10 decibel be called centibel, the same way as a decibel is in fact 1/10 bel? |
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| 07:51:57 | Orion7 | anyone around |
| 07:54:36 | jhMikeS | amiconn: I suppose it should. It was a bit smart arsy though. "tenth of a tenth of a..." :) any smaller and they're "tinkerbels" |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:12:28 | Orion7 | anyone here use a fuze v2 |
| 08:15:32 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: I take it you didn't find anything with that theme that would cause an unclean shutdown? AFAIK all the syntax is correct, I actually happen to think it's a pretty well written theme myself... |
| 08:15:48 | S_a_i_n_t | Gimme a yell if you find something though |
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| 08:46:51 | Orion7 | ender,tchan are you there? |
| 08:47:14 | Orion7 | or anyone |
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| 09:01:54 | S_a_i_n_t | Orion7: there is 118 people in the room, if sure if you ask it, someone can answer your question. |
| 09:02:01 | S_a_i_n_t | ...or at least try to. |
| 09:02:37 | | Quit antil33t () |
| 09:02:52 | Orion7 | well I have a fuze v2 question and I haven't gotten a reply yet |
| 09:03:01 | | Join flydutch [0] (~flydutch@host224-59-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:03:43 | Orion7 | seems like noone while i've been here uses a fuze v2 |
| 09:04:37 | wodz | Orion7: I can only advice a patience |
| 09:05:26 | wodz | Orion7: You can also look at IRC logs to see who is working on fuzev2 port |
| 09:05:39 | | Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 09:05:55 | Orion7 | on the rockbox site? |
| 09:06:19 | S_a_i_n_t | there is a link to the logs in the topic |
| 09:06:34 | S_a_i_n_t | http://www.rockbox.org/irc |
| 09:09:56 | Orion7 | hmm i'm not a coder |
| 09:10:27 | pixelma | Orion7: I'd suggest asking your specific question - maybe it's not directly related to the Fuze or someone can answer it anyways without having this exact player |
| 09:11:16 | wodz | pixelma: how mem_test on M5 went? |
| 09:11:31 | Orion7 | I want to know whether I have to use .31 OF and therefore will there be a volume cap at normal for rb |
| 09:12:09 | | Quit markun (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 09:15:53 | | Quit sevard (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 09:17:56 | pixelma | wodz: got some numbers for you and I found out that the literal "boosted"/"unboosted" line doesn't mean anything. If I watch the clock displayed now it makes sense how read and write speeds change but the first line doesn't change with it (or just sometimes) and is at least half the time wrong |
| 09:18:38 | | Quit jl-k (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 09:19:44 | | Join markun [0] (~markun@rockbox/developer/markun) |
| 09:19:50 | pixelma | here it goes: unboosted (clock) DRAM rd: 6.2 MB/s - wr: 9.4 MB/s, IRAM rd: 40.5 MB/s, wr: 40.0 MB/s |
| 09:20:52 | pixelma | boosted DRAM rd: 17.3 MB/s - wr: 25.8 MB/s, IRAM rd: 110.3 MB/s - wr: 110.3 MB/s |
| 09:21:06 | wodz | *THAT* is the difference 200+ kB/s vs 6.2 MB/s |
| 09:21:08 | pixelma | numbers sometimes change slightly |
| 09:21:23 | | Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 09:21:28 | | Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@188.107.196.214) |
| 09:21:49 | wodz | ok I'll run new test and compare, thank You |
| 09:22:58 | | Join B4gder [0] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 09:25:18 | | Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (~stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) |
| 09:26:35 | amiconn | wodz: Your patch looks ok for the trailing word of unaligned reads (but two instructions can be saved). However, the leading word now has the opposite problem as before |
| 09:27:01 | wodz | amiconn: I just saw that and reworking this |
| 09:27:18 | amiconn | Instead of not being swapped when there was no word, it is now swapped twice when there is one |
| 09:28:12 | amiconn | There are two possible solutions: either you put the lsr #8, r2 in an alternate code path (that means an extra branch), or you handle the leading 16 bit word the same way as the trailing one |
| 09:28:23 | | Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) |
| 09:28:30 | wodz | this $#%#$# byteswap is a pain |
| 09:28:47 | * | amiconn agrees |
| 09:29:50 | Orion7 | amiconn, do you know much about the fuze v2 |
| 09:29:59 | amiconn | Actually you might also use the trapf trick instead of a branch |
| 09:32:55 | | Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 09:33:21 | scorche | markun: you should come to devcon |
| 09:34:45 | | Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) |
| 09:35:32 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: havnt looked yet |
| 09:37:30 | cYmen | What is the detailed status of rockbox on the sansa clip+? |
| 09:39:05 | S_a_i_n_t | No worries JdGordon, I'm not entirely convinced the problem lies with the .wps/.sbs but I'm happy to be proved wrong. It will be a lot easier to track down the problem if the error is mine. |
| 09:39:15 | pixelma | Orion7: for the third or fourth time - just ask your specific question. You are more likely to get help or an answer if you do so |
| 09:39:30 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm just confused about the erratic behaviour of these unclean shutdowns,,, |
| 09:42:41 | S_a_i_n_t | if it happeded every time I'd be more sertain about it being an error with my theme, I havent seen it happen with any of my other themes, though... I haven't seen using any other themes for a long time so that doesn't surprise me. I can't really say if it confined to this one theme or not. |
| 09:42:51 | S_a_i_n_t | *certain |
| 09:43:29 | wodz | amiconn: is trapf alias for tpf coldifire mnemonic? |
| 09:44:45 | JdGordon | S_a_i_n_t: umm... it probably depends where you are shutting down from |
| 09:44:46 | S_a_i_n_t | Orion7: If you are worried about there being a volume cap on RB, don't be. |
| 09:44:51 | JdGordon | from inside the wps or the list |
| 09:45:15 | Orion7 | k ty saint |
| 09:45:24 | S_a_i_n_t | Orion7: a cap on the OF won't effect Rockbox at all. |
| 09:45:32 | Orion7 | awesome |
| 09:45:36 | pixelma | Orion7: sorry, didn't see your question but S_a_i_n_t is correct |
| 09:45:56 | Orion7 | np i'm new at this |
| 09:46:34 | Orion7 | thanks again |
| 09:47:30 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: It has happened before (icons left on the screen during/after shutdown) if it shuts down in the wps/file-tree, and it doesn;t seem to matter if it is an idle shutdown or a manual one. |
| 09:47:53 | S_a_i_n_t | It seems to be more likely to happen if I turn the player off immediately after turning it on though. |
| 09:48:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:48:55 | S_a_i_n_t | I have had a really hard time trying to work out if it is random, or whether there is a recipie for it. |
| 09:49:14 | JdGordon | pixelma: I'm going to commit FM skin tonight, so feel free to replace the inbuilt skin when you are ready... I want to get it in and done before starting on the skin changes (longish reply to the dev ml being written) |
| 09:55:08 | pixelma | btw. I mean the hardcoded FM screen in your patch in general if you haven't changed it since the versions I tried a while ago. They are different to what there is now and while I can understand the one change to get the progress bar in, I have a problem with putting the "Station:" lang string and the station name on one line because it will start scrolling earlier - especially on small screens |
| 09:56:45 | JdGordon | ok sure |
| 09:57:00 | JdGordon | nothing says it cant be changed after its been commited |
| 09:57:08 | | Quit Orion7 (Quit: State Farm is there.) |
| 09:57:19 | JdGordon | I just really really want to get it off my plate |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:12 | | Join swilde [0] (~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org) |
| 10:00:56 | JdGordon | scorche: can you add a subforum to themes for theme feedback? |
| 10:03:18 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 10:08:59 | | Join Orion7 [0] (~IceChat7@c-71-204-140-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:10:05 | Orion7 | for fuzev2 i'm trying to use mkamsboot on .31 OF but it always says only .26 OF works |
| 10:12:14 | | Join Jaykay [0] (~chatzilla@p5DC57DD1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:12:31 | Orion7 | that only .17 and .26 are tested (Original firmware unknown, try a different version) |
| 10:20:46 | wodz | Orion7: guess why |
| 10:21:25 | Orion7 | unfortunately I don't know |
| 10:21:38 | Orion7 | because my understanding is I have to upgrade to .31 |
| 10:22:03 | GodEater | where have you got that idea from? |
| 10:22:15 | Orion7 | forums |
| 10:22:32 | Orion7 | I already have .26 running |
| 10:22:39 | wodz | Orion7: mkamsboot states clearly "only .17 and .26 are tested" |
| 10:23:06 | wodz | it doesn't mean .31 will not work it means it was not tested |
| 10:23:07 | Orion7 | yes, but how can i upgrade my firmware to itself |
| 10:23:24 | | Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 10:23:30 | Orion7 | right, i tried using .31 and it says unrecognized firmware |
| 10:23:42 | Orion7 | said that for .28 also |
| 10:24:00 | pamaury | JdGordon: did you manage to get the usb screen work without polling ? |
| 10:24:11 | wodz | what's wrong with "upgrading" to the same firmware version? |
| 10:24:36 | JdGordon | mkamsboot will refuse to work on an unknown OF, so even if it is tested it wont be officialy working untill its fixed |
| 10:24:42 | JdGordon | pamaury: not yet |
| 10:25:12 | | Quit Kitar|st (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 10:25:43 | pamaury | JdGordon: really ? It doesn't work at all ? |
| 10:25:49 | Orion7 | I didn't know i could ugprade .26 to .26 |
| 10:26:05 | JdGordon | well I didnt really put much effort into it :p |
| 10:26:26 | wodz | Orion7: "upgrade" usually means only write this #$@#% file to flash and reboot |
| 10:26:58 | Orion7 | well i did that with .26 put everything at root and couldn't get anything to happen |
| 10:27:20 | Orion7 | this was after it was succeful with mkams |
| 10:27:22 | kugel | are you in mtp or msc mode? |
| 10:27:26 | Orion7 | auto |
| 10:28:30 | kugel | switch to msc |
| 10:29:00 | GodEater | I thought there was a huge risk of permanent brickage with the AMS sansas when doing a bootloader install ? |
| 10:29:02 | amiconn | wodz: yes. You can't use it as a mnemonic anyway if you want to use the trick |
| 10:30:00 | wodz | amiconn: honestly I don't know this instruction and I don't know what trick You are talking about |
| 10:30:17 | wodz | amiconn: I am beginer in coldfires :-/ |
| 10:30:32 | | Join Kitar|st [0] (~Kitar_st@89.142.63.214) |
| 10:31:07 | amiconn | trapf is essentially a trap that is never taken ("trap false"). It's purpose is that you can shadow one or two other instructions, by putting them into the extension word(s) of trapf.w resp. trapf.l |
| 10:31:45 | amiconn | This saves cycles if you have an if/else construction with just one or two instructions in the else path |
| 10:32:05 | amiconn | An unconditional branch is 3 cycles, while a trapf is single cycle |
| 10:32:24 | | Join sevard [0] (sev@216.164.6.24) |
| 10:33:23 | wodz | amiconn: so imidiate argument to the trapf is in fact decoded instruction right? |
| 10:33:40 | wodz | s/decoded/asembled/ |
| 10:34:42 | amiconn | It's not decoded if instruction flow "runs" into the trapf instruction, but you can branch "into" it with a conditional branch |
| 10:35:05 | amiconn | This saves the unconditional branch for skipping the else path |
| 10:35:51 | wodz | weird |
| 10:36:59 | kugel | indeed :) |
| 10:37:15 | | Join b0hoon [0] (~quassel@62.87.184.82) |
| 10:38:48 | b0hoon | Hi. I've released the bootloader for the vibe and it meets all the conditions of the stable port now. i guess. |
| 10:39:34 | amiconn | Well it's at least a little improvement. ARM has conditional execution for (almost) every instruction... |
| 10:40:54 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25943): ARM DSP: Make things a little more pipeline friendly. Reduce nonvolatile register stacking where possible. Routines now handle odd sample counts ... |
| 10:43:39 | wodz | first test on optimised read/writes passed :-) |
| 10:47:38 | wodz | amiconn: I have to use .word 0x51fb instead of trapf.l ? |
| 10:48:08 | amiconn | Yes, or .word 0x51fa instead of trapf.w |
| 10:48:35 | wodz | that's *really* weird |
| 10:48:45 | amiconn | Depends on whether you want to shadow one instruction, or one instruction with an extension word itself or two instructions |
| 10:49:23 | wodz | and what branches with syntax like bne.s 1f mean? |
| 10:59:20 | | Quit Orion7 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 10:59:51 | pixelma | JdGordon: btw. if looks of the FM screen change, you should update screenshots in the manual and I bet the "WPS" syntax appendix would need some rework. Make sure to at least file a bug report about it and give any info a non-coder manual write would need |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:07 | | Quit zouhair (Quit: Leaving) |
| 11:03:46 | kugel | b0hoon: so go ahead and make the change in the appropriate places :) |
| 11:04:21 | b0hoon | kugel: ok, thank you :) |
| 11:04:55 | kugel | b0hoon: nobody can prove you wrong anyway :P |
| 11:06:38 | b0hoon | kugel: everything should be ok, AFAIK |
| 11:07:03 | wodz | ha test_disk write&verify passed 5 times now time to bench this |
| 11:07:18 | b0hoon | nothing is missing i think |
| 11:08:27 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25944): ARM DSP: fore some reason I neglected dsp_downsample completely. Do a small reordering. |
| 11:10:04 | wodz | pixelma: Your new results from test_mem are in line with what I have on MPIO |
| 11:15:07 | | Quit JdGordon (Changing host) |
| 11:15:07 | | Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 11:16:46 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:21:14 | JdGordon | petur: can you pm me your address? I dont tihnk it makes much sense for me to hold onto the usb tracer, so get it to you and devcon can work out where it lives |
| 11:22:54 | JdGordon | any perl ninjas got some spart time to whip up a script to do the skin syntax changes no exsisting .wps and .sbs files? |
| 11:24:30 | kugel | does it need to be perl? :( |
| 11:24:41 | JdGordon | no |
| 11:24:58 | JdGordon | anything excpet lisp! |
| 11:26:34 | pamaury | JdGordon: what do you want to do ? |
| 11:26:38 | JdGordon | its goign to suck when the theme site goes to 0 working themes with the current build |
| 11:26:39 | | Nick mapi is now known as Guest951 (~mapi@KHP222006067242.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) |
| 11:27:05 | Zagor | JdGordon: please don't commit before we have a working converter |
| 11:27:59 | JdGordon | pamaury: replace all the tags in the form %aa|a|b| to %aa(a,b) and a few from %aaV to %aa(V) |
| 11:28:09 | JdGordon | Zagor: na, i wont |
| 11:29:01 | JdGordon | lets skip the june release and blame GSoC :) |
| 11:29:12 | Zagor | :) |
| 11:29:21 | pamaury | JdGordon: in all .sbs and .wps files ? |
| 11:29:33 | pamaury | I can try to hack a little script if you want |
| 11:30:08 | JdGordon | cool, it will be slightly more complicated than above though. |
| 11:30:10 | pamaury | Except if someone has a super-perl-regex-or-something-knowledge and can do it in a minute |
| 11:30:32 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25945): ARM DSP: Remove a couple comments that no longer apply. |
| 11:30:38 | * | Llorean was thinking we should try to time a release just before/around/at when GSOC ends so that we can immediately commit anything relevant after GSOC and have the maximum in-SVN time for new features before the next release. |
| 11:30:39 | * | pamaury wonders if "slightly more complicated" means recode de WPS parser to convert |
| 11:30:55 | | Join antil33t [0] (~Mudkips@203-184-54-232.callplus.net.nz) |
| 11:31:13 | JdGordon | not quite :) |
| 11:31:25 | Zagor | pamaury: regex is probably a good idea |
| 11:31:38 | pamaury | JdGordon: give me the except conversion scheme and I'll try, I have no WPS/SBS knowledge so be precise :) |
| 11:31:41 | pamaury | *exact |
| 11:31:56 | JdGordon | Zagor: it isnt regular.. and its not line by line |
| 11:32:31 | pamaury | I can do it in C if it appears to be infeasable with perl/bash/... ? |
| 11:32:31 | Zagor | huh? it's text |
| 11:33:05 | pamaury | regex is not the solution to everything, regex can't code even though code is text ;) |
| 11:33:47 | Zagor | regex is the solution a large set of text transformation tasks |
| 11:33:58 | Zagor | doing it in C is just... messy |
| 11:34:07 | JdGordon | I'll pastebin the requirements |
| 11:34:28 | Zagor | but since I don't have time to do it myself right now, I'm not going to be grumpy about it |
| 11:34:29 | JdGordon | I'd feel more comfortable doing this in c myself, but perl/python would be nicer |
| 11:35:06 | | Quit Jaykay (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 11:35:39 | | Quit anewuser (Quit: for SELL 2 by the price of 1 now!) |
| 11:35:58 | pamaury | ok, I'll do my best to do it perl/python even though I do not code myself in either of this languages ^^ |
| 11:37:56 | JdGordon | maybe it would be simpler to not do a generic transform and work on the changing tags only (for which there are maybe a dozen) |
| 11:38:06 | JdGordon | just thinking that getting it right inside conditionals is giong to be tricky |
| 11:39:00 | Zagor | s/\%aa\|(\w)\|(\w)\|/\%aa\(\1,\2\)/ |
| 11:39:11 | Zagor | how could anything be simpler? B-) |
| 11:39:52 | JdGordon | would that actually work? |
| 11:40:01 | JdGordon | that wont get the messy ones inside conditionals |
| 11:40:06 | pamaury | depends on what you want to achieve |
| 11:40:07 | * | Llorean doesn't know regex at all but thinks that might depend on %aa being present. |
| 11:40:50 | Zagor | JdGordon: I don't know enough details of the wps format to say |
| 11:41:10 | JdGordon | s/\%(\w)+\|(\w)\|(\w)\|/\%(\1)\(\2,\3\)/ |
| 11:41:41 | Zagor | sure, except no parenthesis around \1 |
| 11:42:12 | Zagor | s/\%(\w+)\|(\w)\|(\w)\|/\%\1\(\2,\3\)/ |
| 11:42:35 | Zagor | but yes, I fully understand that this is rather messy for someone not comfortable with regex details. |
| 11:43:24 | JdGordon | If that got 90% I reckon that would be good enough |
| 11:43:31 | JdGordon | except no it wont work |
| 11:43:54 | JdGordon | %?aa<%ab|blaa|fds> would get wrongly done |
| 11:44:28 | Zagor | yes |
| 11:44:31 | pamaury | What is the expected result with this ? |
| 11:44:32 | JdGordon | only do that regex is you arnt inside <>'s would get 99% |
| 11:44:45 | Zagor | pamaury: see the mailing list. JdGordon is going to change the wps syntax. |
| 11:44:48 | Llorean | It might take longer, but wouldn't it be safer to just use an existing list of tags and check each one individually? |
| 11:45:01 | JdGordon | or that |
| 11:45:09 | JdGordon | like i said, only maybe a dozen are actually changing |
| 11:45:17 | Llorean | If we can parse existing WPSes without ambiguity, this script should be able to be 100% at least for reading and identifying |
| 11:45:23 | Llorean | The only problem is writing things back in a reasonable manner. |
| 11:45:45 | Zagor | JdGordon: that regex won't match inside <> since it assumes a trailing | |
| 11:46:12 | JdGordon | it would get the first one though, wont it? |
| 11:46:22 | pamaury | The best way seems to use the existing parser and output the transformed file, keeping enough information about spaces, newlines and comment |
| 11:46:29 | JdGordon | %?aa<%ab(blaa)fds> |
| 11:46:46 | Zagor | JdGordon: no, \w only matches alphanumeric characters, so no < or % |
| 11:46:59 | JdGordon | pamaury: yeah, but hoping for a simple script so it can be run of the themes on the server |
| 11:47:00 | | Quit dys (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:47:24 | Llorean | I'm not sure we should run it on the themes. |
| 11:47:33 | Llorean | Especially if we make the change immediately after the release. |
| 11:47:40 | Zagor | JdGordon: sorry, wrong response. no it will ignore it since the string doesn't match the pattern. (no trailing |) |
| 11:47:51 | Llorean | Instead we should provide an webpage where authors can run it on their own themes and resubmit. |
| 11:48:05 | Llorean | Make it trivial for them to fix their theme, but let them choose not to (at least until the first release with the new parser comes out) |
| 11:48:32 | JdGordon | %?aa<%ab|blaa|fds> %ab|blaa| would match it though? |
| 11:48:36 | JdGordon | Llorean: yeah, thats good |
| 11:48:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:49:13 | Zagor | JdGordon: no. still wrong pattern. |
| 11:49:28 | JdGordon | but that one is legal and needs to be changed |
| 11:49:32 | JdGordon | one or more params |
| 11:49:34 | Llorean | JdGordon: Couldn't you just run your test cases through the regex and see if they come out wrong. :) |
| 11:51:09 | Zagor | JdGordon: you can do variable params, but the regex won't be any easier. perhaps it's simpler to just run one regex for each number of parameters |
| 11:51:42 | JdGordon | YUCK :p |
| 11:51:58 | * | JdGordon makes a list of what the definite changes are |
| 11:52:23 | | Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 11:52:46 | JdGordon | also, - is a legal char in args |
| 11:53:00 | JdGordon | and numbers, but that is hit by \w anyway? |
| 11:54:34 | Zagor | ' \w Match a "word" character (alphanumeric plus "_")' |
| 11:55:10 | Zagor | http://perldoc.perl.org/perlre.html is a good reference |
| 11:56:43 | * | kugel thinks a fixed list of to-be-converted tags, and converting each alone is going to be simpler and safer |
| 11:59:27 | Llorean | We'll need an explicit list of converted tags anyway, so we can post somewhere to let authors know (so they don't have to dig through the revision history on the theme page to figure out what all changed) |
| 11:59:51 | * | JdGordon is working on that now |
| 12:00 |
| 12:01:29 | JdGordon | 25 changes |
| 12:02:56 | | Join mikroflops_ [0] (~yogurt@90-227-45-110-no112.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 12:04:57 | | Join animalstyle [0] (~animalsty@ool-4350dd02.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 12:05:40 | | Quit animalstyle (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:06:47 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:07:27 | * | pamaury remotely extract JdGordon's list from his head and put it on pastebin |
| 12:08:59 | | Join watto [0] (~watto@193.203.81.165) |
| 12:12:34 | JdGordon | almost done |
| 12:12:41 | | Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) |
| 12:14:46 | JdGordon | OK http://pastebin.com/3ZtZC12Z |
| 12:15:00 | JdGordon | most of it is obvious, just replaceing |'s with ()'s and commas |
| 12:15:59 | JdGordon | otherwise its putting ()'s around the extra bits of tags that dont use |'s |
| 12:17:09 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon: Well, just make sure to put up a clear list somewhere of what's changes, with example syntax, so I can update my themes :) |
| 12:17:38 | JdGordon | that's it for the first bit |
| 12:19:41 | S_a_i_n_t | so it's like " %Xx[x] " now? and like " %?Xx[blah,blah,blah] "? |
| 12:19:50 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm not quite sure I get it yet... |
| 12:19:51 | pamaury | JdGordon: when so you say ",[optional number])" you mean you have to put the comma in any case ? |
| 12:20:06 | pamaury | *-so |
| 12:20:14 | JdGordon | no, that must be a typo |
| 12:20:22 | * | pamaury can't write today |
| 12:21:12 | JdGordon | decimal means a number with a possible . |
| 12:21:17 | | Join VCR-clock [0] (~wut@85.26.164.193) |
| 12:22:24 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25946): ARM DSP: Get an instruction out of the crossfeed main loop and improve loads and interlocks for stacked vars. |
| 12:28:40 | kugel | JdGordon: why does %Vi has the label optional but for %V it's a separate tag %Vl? |
| 12:28:59 | JdGordon | just the way I happened to write it |
| 12:29:14 | JdGordon | trying to make it easier for whoever does the script |
| 12:29:27 | | Quit VCR-clock (Quit: Unplugged.) |
| 12:29:49 | S_a_i_n_t | http://www.datafilehost.com/download-3d97b695.html <−− New 16px Tango! iconset (+simple viewers), on DAP testing with "large screen" type players would be appreciated, you'll want to use at least a 16pt font as well obviously. Enjoy ;) |
| 12:32:48 | kugel | JdGordon: I just found that inconsistent |
| 12:33:10 | kugel | we could remove %Vl, couldn't we? |
| 12:33:14 | JdGordon | oh right |
| 12:33:18 | JdGordon | I see what you're saying |
| 12:33:25 | JdGordon | yeah, we could |
| 12:33:42 | * | kugel would rather have optional params at the end |
| 12:34:15 | JdGordon | lets do this break first then figure out which tokens really need replacing/fixing |
| 12:34:56 | kugel | break another time just after the big breakage? |
| 12:35:48 | JdGordon | as long as it happens in one release cycle its fine |
| 12:36:04 | JdGordon | or we really want to completly destory everything? |
| 12:36:12 | JdGordon | in which case there isnt much point having a convertor is there? |
| 12:36:19 | kugel | the first breaks it completely already |
| 12:36:30 | JdGordon | relativly simply though |
| 12:36:37 | kugel | removing %Vl could be part of the converter |
| 12:37:13 | JdGordon | do i just do svn branch to create one? |
| 12:37:38 | kugel | no, you do svn cp |
| 12:38:20 | kugel | do you agree with optinal parameters at the end? that helps consistency |
| 12:38:29 | * | amiconn usually uses www.regular-expressions.info as a reference |
| 12:38:56 | JdGordon | the placement doesnt really bother me |
| 12:39:10 | kugel | I think "%xd<one or two letters) -> %xd(letters)" should be "%xd<one or two letters) -> %xd(letter 1,letter 2)" |
| 12:39:11 | JdGordon | I would like general concsistancy across all tags though |
| 12:39:37 | kugel | which is exactly what I'm saying |
| 12:39:40 | JdGordon | i.e the id field should be the first for all things that have a id, optional or otherwise |
| 12:40:15 | JdGordon | and no, if we do your idea than %xd(a,b) would be different to %xd(ab) |
| 12:40:32 | JdGordon | the first being enable the a and b images, the second is enable the 2nd subimage in a image |
| 12:41:37 | kugel | JdGordon: not if we do the other idea of different delimiters for repeater params |
| 12:42:10 | kugel | I think it should be clear that one is a parameter list and the other is just a simplification for repeated tags |
| 12:42:43 | JdGordon | an example? |
| 12:43:21 | kugel | %xd(A,a) <-> %xd(A;B) |
| 12:43:43 | kugel | could even do %xd(A,a;B,b) then |
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| 12:44:17 | JdGordon | that doesnt look very nice |
| 12:44:28 | kugel | if there's a ; (assuming that's the repeater delimiter), it would just call the tag parser multiple times for the args |
| 12:45:38 | JdGordon | apart from the xd tag, where else would that be useful? |
| 12:45:53 | kugel | %Vd |
| 12:46:03 | JdGordon | it would be simple enough to just put that logic stright into those tags |
| 12:46:30 | kugel | why don't make it generic? |
| 12:47:06 | JdGordon | it feels messy, but either way, adding that wont break anything |
| 12:47:26 | kugel | I don't think the repeater thing is very important, we can worry about it later as adding it later shouldn't break things |
| 12:47:41 | JdGordon | so the origional point is that %xd(aa) is simpler than %xd(a,a) |
| 12:47:50 | JdGordon | not simpler... umm... flexible |
| 12:47:54 | kugel | how? |
| 12:48:09 | kugel | it's only inconsistent imo |
| 12:48:24 | JdGordon | not really.. aa is an id |
| 12:48:59 | kugel | if you follow %xl, then the subimage is an additional, optional parameter |
| 12:49:02 | kugel | so it should be for %xd |
| 12:49:31 | kugel | doing %xl(A,a) but %xd(Aa) is incosistent |
| 12:51:31 | JdGordon | doing that means we have no choice but to use a different delimiter (which will make the parser slightly omre complex) or being stuck with long lines of %xd(...)'s |
| 12:51:59 | kugel | I'm very much in favor of a different delimiter |
| 12:52:05 | JdGordon | or.. %xd(A,d,B,F,d,e) is slightly ambiguous |
| 12:52:14 | kugel | using the same for parameters and repeaters is confusing |
| 12:52:17 | JdGordon | of course we could know that B doesnt have subimages |
| 12:53:46 | kugel | we could with unecessary extra logic in the parser |
| 12:54:03 | JdGordon | putting the repeater logic in the handler will dupe some code but make the important parser simpler |
| 12:54:07 | kugel | a separate delimiter is easier for parsing and less confusing for themers |
| 12:54:18 | JdGordon | making it generic for 2 or 3 cases doesnt really make much sense |
| 12:54:35 | kugel | generic is less code though |
| 12:54:53 | JdGordon | in a more complex area |
| 12:55:58 | wodz | why don't we use xml-ish format? |
| 12:56:09 | kugel | I think the parameter parser would be the least complex part, the individual tags are more complex |
| 12:56:38 | * | JdGordon glares at wodz |
| 12:56:41 | JdGordon | xml is never the answer! |
| 12:57:01 | wodz | but is easy to parse |
| 12:58:11 | JdGordon | kugel: my tihnking is this, I want the parser to split up the args and pass them as a char** to the handler which then works on the individual char*'s.. the debbuger could then very easily know if it got a number when it wanted a filename |
| 12:58:23 | JdGordon | the tag parsers then become very dump |
| 12:59:35 | JdGordon | i.e "did I get 5 params? good.. are they int, int, string, string, string? no? ok fail" |
| 13:00 |
| 13:02:00 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 13:02:37 | gevaerts | wodz: is it? |
| 13:03:44 | * | Llorean still likes "one line of the WPS file equates to one line of the WPS" |
| 13:03:58 | Llorean | With simple WPSes / text based WPSes it makes creating them and visualizing them very easily |
| 13:04:01 | JdGordon | that isnt changing |
| 13:04:11 | Llorean | JdGordon: That was in response to the XML thing |
| 13:04:15 | JdGordon | ah |
| 13:04:41 | CIA-5 | New commit by jdgordon (r25947): make a new branch for the breaking changes for the skin engine |
| 13:04:49 | * | JdGordon hopes he dun that right |
| 13:05:48 | * | S_a_i_n_t wonders if he has to update his themes now? |
| 13:05:59 | JdGordon | not yet |
| 13:06:06 | gevaerts | S_a_i_n_t: you could wait until there's actual code |
| 13:06:09 | JdGordon | unless you want to help test |
| 13:06:21 | wodz | It was just a loose question. I am big XML fan but it has some strong points |
| 13:06:36 | JdGordon | I've done the code already for the existing code to work with the changes to the syntax |
| 13:06:46 | wodz | s/ big/ not so big/ |
| 13:07:10 | gevaerts | wodz: is availability of parsers that don't use more than a few KB one of those strong points? ;) |
| 13:07:48 | wodz | probably not |
| 13:08:53 | | Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 13:09:39 | Llorean | Proposal for 3.6: Finally remove "Fade on stop/pause" as defaulting to on. |
| 13:10:13 | Zagor | why? |
| 13:10:53 | wodz | http://kd7yhr.org/bushbo/tinyxml.md |
| 13:11:09 | Zagor | oh right, is it still that silly long fade? |
| 13:11:13 | Llorean | Zagor: Yes. |
| 13:11:36 | Zagor | bleh, that's a bug. we should simple fix the default to be as it was intended. (a replication of winamp's fade on pause) |
| 13:11:50 | Llorean | It looks unresponsive because it seems to take a while to pause (it can look buggy) and (to a lot of the people we talked with about this) it's basically just a feature that immediately gets disabled anyway. |
| 13:12:07 | Llorean | I'm a big fan of most features disabling to "off" and needing to be turned on anyway |
| 13:12:21 | Zagor | it should be a fraction of a second, just to take the edge off |
| 13:12:39 | Llorean | If it were very quick, it probably wouldn't be as annoying, yes. |
| 13:13:10 | JdGordon | if it were done right and not faked with fiddling with volume it would be less annoying |
| 13:13:49 | Zagor | it was done in hwcodec times |
| 13:15:11 | Llorean | Well, maybe it should be disabled by default for now, then we can ask people what they prefer when a properly working one exists? |
| 13:15:50 | Zagor | if it isn't fixed before the next release, I agree default should be "off" |
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| 13:17:17 | S_a_i_n_t | I don't think it should be off...but it should be a *very* short fade, |
| 13:17:30 | Zagor | S_a_i_n_t: right, that's what I mean with "fixed" |
| 13:17:45 | S_a_i_n_t | oh, *facepalm* |
| 13:17:51 | S_a_i_n_t | ;) |
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| 13:22:10 | Blue_Dude | Saw something about "fade on stop/pause". That's something I'm working on doing in the mixer. So at least swcodec will be fixed eventually. Hwcodec will still probably need to do it as a volume fade. |
| 13:23:13 | S_a_i_n_t | it just needs to fade out quite a bit quicker on pause than it does now... |
| 13:23:28 | Blue_Dude | Is 23 ms short/long enough for the job? Any multiple of that will work well. |
| 13:23:48 | Blue_Dude | It will happen within 23 ms. :) |
| 13:23:51 | Llorean | I think the shorter the better. |
| 13:24:09 | Blue_Dude | I meant the length of the fade though. |
| 13:24:14 | Llorean | But 23 might be a little too short to be noticieable. |
| 13:24:18 | S_a_i_n_t | that would probably be nicer than it is now. |
| 13:24:34 | S_a_i_n_t | perhaps 46ms? |
| 13:24:36 | Llorean | I'm guessing (based off nothing at the moment) we'll probably settle on something between 100 and 200 |
| 13:25:17 | Blue_Dude | It will occur within 23 ms of the button press, but it can be any multiple of that for the fade itself. Keeps the code cleaner. (23 ms is the mix buffer size). |
| 13:25:23 | Llorean | It may make sense to have a setting for the fade duration anyway, at which point we can all try it and see which seems a good default |
| 13:25:42 | Blue_Dude | Bleh. I thought you didn't like menu items like that. |
| 13:25:53 | Llorean | There's already a menu item to turn it off/on |
| 13:25:59 | Llorean | Replace it with "Duration" that starts at 0. |
| 13:26:10 | Llorean | No net increase in menu items, just an increase in functionality. |
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| 13:31:20 | Blue_Dude | Hm. What, 0, 23, 46, etc.? Not pretty. |
| 13:31:41 | Blue_Dude | "Off, Short, Long" maybe. |
| 13:31:47 | | Quit lpereira (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 13:32:01 | Blue_Dude | With hardcoded presets. |
| 13:32:03 | Llorean | Or "short, medium, long" being 46, 115, and 230 or something |
| 13:32:14 | Llorean | But yeah, exposing the numbers would be ugly |
| 13:32:27 | Blue_Dude | Subject to experimental changes later. |
| 13:32:31 | Llorean | Yes |
| 13:32:49 | Llorean | But I think that if the feature is to exist, it needs a little flexibility otherwise it's really there for a very, very small subset of users. |
| 13:32:56 | Llorean | Either that, or it needs to be something that more or less universally sounds good. |
| 13:33:05 | Llorean | In which case, it may not even need an on/off |
| 13:33:34 | S_a_i_n_t | I think even 46 would be barely audible, perhaps a slightly longer setting for "short" than 46ms |
| 13:34:21 | Zagor | S_a_i_n_t: yes. an enterprising soul might measure how long winamp fades. |
| 13:34:45 | Blue_Dude | "Barely audible" seems about right to me. I use a hard stop myself. Fade bugs me. |
| 13:34:54 | S_a_i_n_t | alas, I do not have a winamp to measure. |
| 13:35:03 | Zagor | Blue_Dude: then 0 is for you |
| 13:35:14 | Zagor | don't ruin the function because you want it off |
| 13:35:30 | S_a_i_n_t | I like the fade on stop/pause setting, but, the fade is slightly too long IMO |
| 13:35:33 | Llorean | I think "barely audible" is good for short |
| 13:35:43 | Llorean | It should take the edge off without being something you can notice unless you're looking for it hard. |
| 13:35:43 | S_a_i_n_t | it needs to be about halved in duration. |
| 13:35:50 | Zagor | the feature as-intended is very nice. it's just the current incarnation that's silly. |
| 13:35:52 | Llorean | "medium" should be the setting for most similar to winamp |
| 13:36:01 | CIA-5 | New commit by wodz (r25948): HD200 - fix in asm optimised ATA reads&writes |
| 13:36:03 | Llorean | And "long" should feel like it's actually fading. |
| 13:36:27 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: I'm pretty sure the current setting halved would still be well, well over the 230ms I mentioned for long |
| 13:37:00 | Zagor | there should be no noticeable delay in pausing. just a smoother cut-off. |
| 13:37:31 | Blue_Dude | Zagor: I'm not going to ruin it. :) |
| 13:37:38 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 13:37:50 | S_a_i_n_t | we'll see.... ;) |
| 13:38:34 | Blue_Dude | Well, I won't sabotage it anyway. Ruin is always a possible side-effect. |
| 13:39:27 | S_a_i_n_t | heh, good work with hotkey btw...but I have a request. |
| 13:39:48 | S_a_i_n_t | Could you please add "insert shuffled" to the file-tree hotkey? |
| 13:40:08 | Blue_Dude | Could be. What's it worth to you? |
| 13:40:24 | Blue_Dude | Don't answer that. |
| 13:40:30 | S_a_i_n_t | I kinda looked, but I couldn't really see how to do it myself. |
| 13:40:40 | Blue_Dude | Yeah, that's a trivial addition. Consider it done. |
| 13:40:58 | S_a_i_n_t | thanks, I for one would find it very useful. |
| 13:41:12 | S_a_i_n_t | I use insert shuffled quite a lot. |
| 13:41:15 | Blue_Dude | But I don't use shuffle so I might ruin it... |
| 13:41:18 | Blue_Dude | :) |
| 13:41:39 | Zagor | :) |
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| 13:48:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:48:54 | kugel | I think I still have some code around that makes the fade asynchronous, i.e. the wps is left immediately |
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| 13:50:14 | Llorean | I think that would be an improvement independent of what is decided on regarding the fade time |
| 13:50:32 | kugel | yea agreed, it's too long too |
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| 14:00 |
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| 14:03:06 | kugel | quick&dirty resync. I don't even know if it compiles. http://repo.or.cz/w/kugel-rb.git/shortlog/refs/heads/fade_on_pause |
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| 14:37:50 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25949): ARM DSP: Add assembly custom sound channel processing. 13% to 14% faster than currently-used default C code on ARMv4. |
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| 14:54:27 | JdGordon | last call for testers for the fm skin patch... |
| 14:58:57 | JdGordon | kugel: %Xd to say the backdrop is disabled.. keep as a seperate tag? or %X(d) ? |
| 14:59:07 | * | JdGordon thinks the first |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:01 | kugel | %X(d) would be ambigious |
| 15:00:05 | pixelma | it's a bit weird as %xd says "display the preloaded image" but it goes along with %we/%wd |
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| 15:00:36 | JdGordon | capital x is backdrop |
| 15:00:37 | kugel | I just thought the same actually |
| 15:01:05 | Llorean | JdGordon: Could you do %X(-) to disable it maybe? |
| 15:01:38 | JdGordon | that works also |
| 15:01:48 | kugel | I guess that would work, but - usually means "pick defaults" |
| 15:02:06 | JdGordon | I'm not too fused what it is, just want to work out if it should get ()'s or not |
| 15:02:22 | JdGordon | it cuold even be empty |
| 15:02:47 | Llorean | kugel: Isn't the true default "no backdrop"? |
| 15:03:00 | Llorean | I think it should get the parenthesis but either - or empty |
| 15:03:16 | kugel | the default is the menu backdrop |
| 15:04:03 | * | kugel thinks plain %X makes most sense, leave it empty for an empty backdrop (ie no backdrop) |
| 15:04:46 | | Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 15:05:54 | Blue_Dude | S_a_i_n_t: Just to make absolutely sure, you want "Insert Shuffled" right? Not "Insert Last Shuffled"? |
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| 15:36:58 | JdGordon | oh joy! I've fixed the parser to handle (,,,)'s but now it segfaults the displayer! :< |
| 15:39:09 | Blue_Dude | I think that's got it... |
| 15:39:22 | Blue_Dude | It was more of a challenge than I thought, but here you go... |
| 15:40:27 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25950): Add Insert Shuffled to hotkey options |
| 15:44:37 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (~felixbrun@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
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| 15:48:45 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:50:40 | CIA-5 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r25951): Fix yellow |
| 15:51:26 | | Quit CGL (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 15:55:09 | JdGordon | parse_list() doesnt really like 2 seperators :/ |
| 15:56:50 | kugel | parse them separately? |
| 15:57:14 | | Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) |
| 15:57:30 | kugel | for each repeater delimiter do a parse_list() and parse_tag(). anyway, I think this can be done later so I wouldn't worry about it now |
| 15:57:50 | JdGordon | no... the problem is where it looks for the end of non-number items it looks for the seperator |
| 15:58:00 | JdGordon | but now the last one is a ) while the seperator is , |
| 15:59:36 | JdGordon | simple enough to hardcode a workaround.. but not so nice |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:01:20 | CIA-5 | New commit by jdgordon (r25952): initial work to move to (,) instead of | seperators.. ... |
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| 16:01:39 | JdGordon | also %Sx which i forgot to add in the message :/ |
| 16:01:46 | | Quit Hillshum (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 16:01:46 | | Quit joeyg (Quit: hwlp) |
| 16:01:53 | kugel | maybe a max_len for parse_list() which could be gotten by strchr'ing the param list before? |
| 16:02:53 | JdGordon | for now I just hardcoded ')' for the sep if the item is the last to be parsed |
| 16:02:54 | kugel | are you going to do the "char *params[]" idea? |
| 16:03:05 | JdGordon | yeah |
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| 16:09:28 | CIA-5 | New commit by jethead71 (r25953): Gigabeat F/X: Let us clear up confusion about just what the core frequency is. Fix frequency display in buffering screen. |
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| 16:13:48 | CIA-5 | New commit by jdgordon (r25954): add %d() %Sx() %St() to the tested list. ... |
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| 17:56:28 | fml | Will the new WPS syntax allow for file names with a comma in them? |
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| 17:58:26 | whydoubt | I didn't see a tone generator plugin for rockbox so I wrote one. What would it take to get it into the repository? |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:01:18 | | Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 18:02:40 | markun | whydoubt: put it in the tracker and get some people to use it/look at it and bug them to commit it :) |
| 18:07:17 | Strife89 | What's this? http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SkinBreakingChange |
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| 18:09:44 | Strife89 | whydoubt: What targets have you written keymaps for? :) |
| 18:10:57 | | Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 18:15:54 | whydoubt | Strife89: I borrowed code from the metronome. PLA_INC/_DEC for volume, PLA_RIGHT/_LEFT for note, PLA_START to play/pause. Does that help or did I misinterpret your question? |
| 18:16:17 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 18:16:33 | Torne | simple pluginlib actions like that should work on just about every target, yes |
| 18:16:43 | Torne | PLA only becomes problematic when you have to start combining different sets |
| 18:16:45 | Strife89 | Ah, okay. |
| 18:17:10 | Strife89 | whydoubt: Reason I was asking is, I can test it on four targets for ya. :)\ |
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| 18:22:37 | | Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 18:22:51 | evilnick | Does the Fuse sim (3.5 from rasher's site) show Internal memory and SD memory separately? |
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| 18:36:12 | kisak | I want to fix a 1 character typo in rbutil.ini, is it better to make a diff and put it on flyspray or to get setup to commit to svn myself? |
| 18:37:10 | | Quit grndslm (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 18:38:47 | S_a_i_n_t | kisak: *probably* best to add a patch to the tracker... |
| 18:39:02 | kisak | or should I just wait to give a shoutout to funman/domonoky/bluebrother |
| 18:39:15 | topik | or shout now. people read the logs |
| 18:39:16 | * | domonoky looks around |
| 18:39:38 | | Quit Zarggg (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 18:39:58 | * | n1s ponders a good benchmark for strlen |
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| 18:40:27 | domonoky | kisak: if you tell me the typo, i can also just fix it. |
| 18:40:33 | kisak | the sansafuzev2 entry in rbutil.ini should have fuzpa.bin as the bootloader filename, not fuzepa.bin |
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| 18:42:21 | domonoky | ah, thats important, or else the upgrade wont work.. i will change it. |
| 18:42:57 | kisak | thank you domonoky |
| 18:43:26 | CIA-5 | New commit by Domonoky (r25955): rbutil: fix fuzev2 firmware filename. Thanks to kisak for spotting it. |
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| 18:45:21 | kisak | I noticed that yesterday evening when I went to bump the bootloader to take advantage of r25900/FS #11246 |
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| 19:10:11 | CIA-5 | New commit by alle (r25956): No need to have a variable for a thing computed by the preprocessor |
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| 19:34:47 | PyroBor | Hellow. Found one mistake (couldn't call that a bug) in source code in file rbutil/INSTALL: "rbutilqt" should be "RockboxUtility". Just like it is mentioned in changelog on the website. |
| 19:37:52 | PyroBor | also flyspray didn't like "č" in my name :) |
| 19:39:09 | PyroBor | that mistake is in rockbox utility. |
| 19:39:44 | * | domonoky will fix.. |
| 19:41:38 | CIA-5 | New commit by Domonoky (r25957): rbutil: change the binary name here too. Thanks to PyroBor for finding that. |
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| 19:44:30 | S_a_i_n_t | Blue_Dude: Thanks a bunch for adding 'Insert Shuffled" to the file-tree hotkey settings! I appreciate it, very handy :D |
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| 20:09:20 | * | kugel wonders why buttons stop working correctly if I change the sdl threading a slight bit |
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| 20:18:35 | Buschel | wodz: regarding your comparison of pixelma's test_mem results (several MB/s) with yours (some hundred KB/s) -> you need to use current svn's test_mem plugin. there were several changes in the last days to optimize for ARM and to correct the calculation of memory bandwidth. in your version you will have to multiply the result by 100 to have the real bandwidth (e.g. your 200+ KB/s equal 20+ MB/s). |
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| 20:21:44 | wodz | Buschel: I did compare current svn test_mem results and they are the same as pixelma's |
| 20:22:09 | Buschel | ok. fine :) |
| 20:22:55 | wodz | Buschel: wouldn't it be better to use memset/memcpy in test_mem? coldfire has optimised versions thanks to amiconn |
| 20:23:16 | wodz | the question is what we try to benchmark |
| 20:24:00 | n1s | wodz: looking at your ata-as-mpio change, it looks like you could save an instruction in a few places by replacing and.l #0xff, %d0; or.l %d0, %d2 with move.b %d0, %d2 |
| 20:24:28 | wodz | move.b does not clear rest of register |
| 20:24:40 | n1s | no |
| 20:24:41 | wodz | so I can't do or next |
| 20:24:43 | Buschel | wodz: we could add this measure as well. but I like to have separate results for read and write. e.g. in codecs you may read large amounts of date from iram to save a single results in dram (like used in filters). |
| 20:25:24 | Buschel | wodz: memcpy or memmove would be more symmetric |
| 20:25:32 | n1s | wodz: i mean replace the and and the or with the move.b just copying the lsB from d0 into the lsB of d2 |
| 20:26:02 | wodz | n1s: aa right this will work |
| 20:26:57 | wodz | n1s: I wanted to review the code once more when merging into ata-as-coldfire.S |
| 20:27:27 | preglow | amiconn: planning to optimize the arm flac routines for higher bit depths? |
| 20:27:35 | n1s | i definitely think a merge is a good idea, and one can never review too many times ;) |
| 20:28:06 | wodz | Buschel: but now we can't in any way compare results from different architectures |
| 20:29:41 | Buschel | wodz: as I said, we might add memmove and memcpy to have asm'ed versions for the different architectures. and in addition mr. someone might add asm for other architectures for the read/write tests :o) |
| 20:29:52 | wodz | Buschel: writing optimized routine for every architecture just for test_mem is waist of time |
| 20:30:16 | Buschel | that is your opinion |
| 20:30:43 | wodz | what information does it gives you? |
| 20:31:20 | Buschel | implementing it might be fun for some of us ;o) |
| 20:31:22 | wodz | it is much better to benchmark code which is used in some other places in rockbox |
| 20:31:31 | | Nick YPSY is now known as Ypsy (~ypsy@geekpadawan.de) |
| 20:32:40 | Buschel | wodz: you are missing some major point here: codecs (that's what I mostly work on) _are_ specific in their decoding/synthesis filtering. there is no memcpy or memmove used in the relevant parts. so it is of interest how different memory concepts scale |
| 20:33:58 | | Quit flydutch (Quit: /* empty */) |
| 20:34:04 | kugel | my intention for test_mem was to check if something is wrong with the fuzev2 actually :) |
| 20:37:27 | kugel | ahhhh |
| 20:37:32 | pixelma | Buschel: so you were working on test_mem? Could you look into the issue why "boosted"/"unboosted" often states the wrong thing? Looking at the displayed clock and related speeds seems to be correct but the words don't match |
| 20:37:45 | kugel | that was one mutex unlock too much, now buttons work again |
| 20:38:09 | pixelma | on my M5 that is at least |
| 20:40:13 | Buschel | pixelma: that's the same on my machine (iPod 5.5G). seems like there is a delay between triggering the boost ("boosted" is displayed) and the clock change itself. not too interesting though: just wait until the boosted clock is displayed and everything is fine :o) |
| 20:40:50 | Buschel | pixelma: good enough for a tes plugin :o) |
| 20:40:56 | Buschel | *test |
| 20:41:16 | pixelma | I mean a mismatch between the words "boosted" and "unboosted" and the clock speed displayed along with it |
| 20:42:55 | pixelma | and yesterday the plugin just stopped on its own without me doing anything and after different amounts of time. I didn't see a pattern |
| 20:45:32 | Buschel | pixelma: I can see the same behaviour regarding boosted and the clock (too much cpu consumed to switck clock? maybe you could just enlarge the get_action timeout?). But I did not experience any plugin exits... |
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| 20:49:09 | | Quit xavieran (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:49:49 | wodz | Buschel: but does codecs use constructs such as for... loop in test_mem or arm asm version or it is just for fun? |
| 20:51:07 | kugel | jhMikeS: ping |
| 20:53:01 | * | kugel is surprised that so many people are interested in test_mem, given that it hasn't been there for so many years :) |
| 20:54:00 | Buschel | wodz: e.g. filterbanks use lots of ldmia to read time domain samples and coefficients, combine them somehow and save a single register at the end. stm is used less often I would say. |
| 20:55:07 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:55:36 | Buschel | wodz: but maybe we are drifting away from the plugins purpose. If you think memcpy and memmove shall be tested as well -> add them and display the results in new lines. |
| 20:57:30 | kugel | testing the mem functions is definitely not the purpose i added it for, but it could be useful to see how they perform compared to the real memory bandwidth |
| 20:57:52 | Buschel | kugel: _that_ is indeed a valid point |
| 20:58:42 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:26 | Buschel | kugel: I thought about calculating the wait states for read/write accesses. Might be helpful when estimating cycle times for asm optimizations on different platforms... |
| 21:01:25 | wodz | doing simple grep for memcpy shows it is used in codecs as well as in other places |
| 21:01:46 | Buschel | wodz: yes, but not in the speed dominating parts. |
| 21:02:18 | Buschel | wodz: let's just stop this discussion. not worth the time. |
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| 21:02:51 | wodz | sure. I will prepare the patch to add mem* functions to test_mem in spare time |
| 21:04:41 | | Quit komputes (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 21:04:51 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 21:05:08 | Buschel | ok, keep up the good work! |
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| 22:00 |
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| 22:12:39 | m0ar | Hello guys |
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| 22:13:13 | m0ar | How's the development for the Clip+ proceeding? I'm very new, so pardon if it's a stupid question :) |
| 22:14:01 | Bagder | m0ar: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMS#Port_Status |
| 22:14:11 | m0ar | Oh, thanks |
| 22:15:21 | m0ar | Does anyone in here run a boxed Clip+? :3 |
| 22:16:06 | Stephen__ | yes there's a few of us who do. |
| 22:16:39 | Torne | a boxed one? |
| 22:16:41 | m0ar | Is it hard to get running? I've never tinkered with a portable audio device |
| 22:16:48 | Torne | traditionally you take it out ofthe box before running it |
| 22:16:50 | Torne | :) |
| 22:16:51 | m0ar | Torne: Yeah, a rockboxed clap+ |
| 22:16:56 | m0ar | Oh you ;D |
| 22:17:13 | * | evilnick claps |
| 22:17:16 | | Join smumey [0] (~smumey@96.51.64.186) |
| 22:18:04 | Torne | ok that was a joke but seriously i didn't realise what you meant by boxed |
| 22:18:06 | Torne | :) |
| 22:19:01 | | Quit bmbl (Quit: Bye!) |
| 22:19:39 | m0ar | Some personal thoughts, what's the biggest reason for you running a rockboxed device? |
| 22:20:15 | Stephen__ | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WhyRockbox |
| 22:20:18 | | Quit hebz0rl (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 22:20:20 | wodz | it is question for the community channel rather |
| 22:20:46 | m0ar | Oh, I'm sorry then |
| 22:20:56 | m0ar | Stephen__: Thanks sherloock, but I asked for personal opinions |
| 22:21:24 | Torne | because otherwise it's hard to test the code i'm changing :) |
| 22:22:04 | Stephen__ | The wiki is wrote by users so that's the reasons people would use it. any of the reasons people will state are there. |
| 22:22:23 | Stephen__ | unless you just want because it's better than the OF |
| 22:22:39 | m0ar | Oh, thanks |
| 22:22:50 | Bagder | the main reason is all the money and fame it brings with it! |
| 22:22:57 | m0ar | Bagder: +1 |
| 22:23:03 | m0ar | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TargetStatus#New_Platforms_Currently_Under_De |
| 22:23:13 | m0ar | In this table, USB is NO. Meaning? |
| 22:23:20 | Torne | meaning usb doesn't work? |
| 22:23:23 | evilnick | m0ar: Being able to drag and drop (if you've been used to using iPods) is a very attractive reason |
| 22:23:31 | m0ar | evilnick: nom |
| 22:23:40 | evilnick | As is the focus on things being based on standards |
| 22:23:57 | gevaerts | m0ar: no usb means you have to use the original firmware for that |
| 22:24:00 | m0ar | evilnick: Even tho I've never used any player that didn't support it, that'd be a stupid buy |
| 22:24:11 | m0ar | gevaerts: For transferring music? :< |
| 22:24:42 | Bagder | m0ar: it really isn't a very big deal |
| 22:24:56 | m0ar | Seems like :/ |
| 22:25:01 | Bagder | why? |
| 22:25:01 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:25:13 | Bagder | I don't think you understand it then |
| 22:25:24 | m0ar | Feel free to enlighten me |
| 22:25:54 | Bagder | I did: it's not such a big deal ;-) |
| 22:26:03 | gevaerts | What isn't? ;) |
| 22:26:03 | m0ar | I think being able to transfer music to your device is what's called a "key feature" |
| 22:26:03 | evilnick | You switch to the OF to transfer music, then back to RB to listen to it. |
| 22:26:03 | m0ar | amirite? |
| 22:26:07 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:26:07 | Bagder | m0ar: you can |
| 22:26:12 | m0ar | Ah, it's that easy to swap? |
| 22:26:18 | Bagder | very easy |
| 22:26:40 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FDCA43F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:26:46 | Bagder | (and the text on that wiki page explains it a bit too) |
| 22:26:49 | m0ar | Just read that I've got a probability of completely breaking my clip+, sound like fun to change firmware often :D |
| 22:27:07 | Bagder | there's only really a one-time risk |
| 22:27:17 | m0ar | Do explain, please |
| 22:27:29 | Bagder | the risk is when/how the bootloader is installed |
| 22:27:30 | evilnick | m0ar: Once you've installed rockbox, it's really just like picking which desktop OS to launch |
| 22:27:47 | m0ar | I can seriously dualboot my player |
| 22:27:51 | evilnick | Except without a menu and having to hold buttons whilst booting |
| 22:27:53 | evilnick | Exactly |
| 22:27:57 | Bagder | m0ar: and for most uses, you will never even install the bootloader |
| 22:28:00 | m0ar | That provides such a geekstamp |
| 22:28:07 | Bagder | uh, darn, never again I meant |
| 22:28:27 | * | Bagder signs up for typing class |
| 22:28:29 | m0ar | So what may cause the installation of the bootloader to fail? |
| 22:28:34 | Torne | very little |
| 22:28:39 | | Quit Unhelpful (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 22:28:40 | * | m0ar slapts Badgers fingers |
| 22:28:42 | Torne | i don't think anyone has bricked a clip+ yet, have they? |
| 22:28:46 | | Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) |
| 22:28:52 | Bagder | yes that Badger guy should have it |
| 22:28:59 | m0ar | Good, but what may cause a breakdown? |
| 22:29:10 | Torne | cutting power while it's installing |
| 22:29:16 | Torne | ..that's probably it |
| 22:29:22 | m0ar | Seriously? |
| 22:29:25 | Torne | and it takes a couple seconds, so it's not exactly a large window |
| 22:29:34 | Torne | what did you expect? |
| 22:29:38 | m0ar | Well, I'll have it charged |
| 22:29:45 | Torne | yes |
| 22:29:49 | Torne | so the risk is very small |
| 22:30:13 | Torne | the bootloader installer only works with original firmware updates which we have tested and included the checksum of |
| 22:30:22 | Torne | so there shouldn't be *any* risk of it patching ht ecode wrong |
| 22:30:30 | m0ar | Judgind from the wiki from the viewpoint of a total n0oBBb: The smallest inferference will render your Clip+ useless. |
| 22:30:46 | Torne | really? |
| 22:30:53 | m0ar | Yeah, that's why I came in here :D |
| 22:31:06 | Torne | oh, you might render it useless at any moment, but not *permantly* :) |
| 22:31:17 | m0ar | I meant permanently. |
| 22:31:29 | m0ar | As in: |
| 22:31:35 | evilnick | m0ar: Which section are you referring to? |
| 22:31:38 | Torne | very few targets have any measurable risk of bricking unless you do something really stupid |
| 22:31:41 | evilnick | (on the wiki) |
| 22:31:50 | Torne | some of theunstable targets might randomly reformat themselves or corrupt the data or whatever |
| 22:31:54 | m0ar | there's always a risk of BRICKING your device PERMANENTLY., which repeats again and again |
| 22:31:57 | Torne | but it will just kill all your music and force you to reinstall rockbox |
| 22:32:15 | Torne | generally there's no risk of bricking the device once you have installed the bootloader |
| 22:32:18 | Torne | unless you install a new bootloader. |
| 22:32:19 | m0ar | Well, good :) |
| 22:32:22 | evilnick | "Even though the bootloader installation and rockbox itself are tested, there's always a risk of BRICKING your device PERMANENTLY."? |
| 22:33:06 | m0ar | evilnick: Well, the red text warning for a takedown lurks in a few places more. The fact that it's well-repeated made me wonder :) |
| 22:33:19 | Bagder | we want the warnings to be big and bright so nobody comes down and say we didn't warn them, for the odd case where something actually does go wrong |
| 22:33:26 | m0ar | True |
| 22:33:49 | m0ar | Probably some guy that gets tired of waiting for the "firmware update" and just forces it off |
| 22:34:05 | m0ar | A question, why isnm't it possible to reinstall a standard bootloader if installation fails? |
| 22:34:17 | Torne | because the firmware is what installs the firmware, on a lot of players :) |
| 22:34:36 | Torne | if you break it there's nothing left to install another one with |
| 22:34:39 | Bagder | if installation fails, the device is dead |
| 22:34:45 | m0ar | Nom |
| 22:35:12 | Bagder | well, at least it some cases ;-) |
| 22:35:23 | m0ar | When I get my player I'll come in here and nag you guys while I do this, minimizing the chances of me failing miserably |
| 22:35:51 | Torne | we'd rather you didn't |
| 22:35:53 | evilnick | It *should* be perfectly straightforward to follow the instructions and do it on your own |
| 22:36:16 | Torne | follow the instructions, and ask us if something is unclear |
| 22:36:26 | m0ar | Torne: Yeah, that's what I meant dude |
| 22:37:12 | AlexP | Also, make sure to read the manual before asking |
| 22:37:18 | m0ar | Of course |
| 22:37:20 | Bagder | and we can sing a song to calm him down! |
| 22:37:29 | AlexP | Good idea to do that now - it tells you about dual-boot for instance |
| 22:37:38 | m0ar | AlexP: Yeah, I'm on it already :) |
| 22:37:50 | evilnick | Does the manual exist for the clip+? |
| 22:38:37 | AlexP | evilnick: That is a reasonable point |
| 22:38:38 | m0ar | Nope |
| 22:38:56 | AlexP | That is as it is classed as unusable |
| 22:39:23 | Bagder | Unstable actually on that wiki page |
| 22:39:41 | AlexP | Interesting |
| 22:39:46 | AlexP | It is unusable on the front page |
| 22:39:55 | AlexP | So which is it? |
| 22:39:56 | | Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-80-145-33.mcn.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:39:57 | Torne | i expect it didn't get put back |
| 22:40:02 | evilnick | And some bits of the manual do exist: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/ |
| 22:40:19 | evilnick | Presumably those parts that are the same as the clip |
| 22:40:30 | AlexP | Torne: Ah, it got prematurely made unstable? |
| 22:40:37 | Torne | yes |
| 22:40:43 | Torne | the change to the front page got reverted |
| 22:40:44 | AlexP | I'll change the wiki page back |
| 22:40:47 | Torne | maybe the wiki wasn't revised |
| 22:40:57 | Torne | though now that writes work maybe it *should* be unstable again |
| 22:41:16 | Torne | i haven't been paying enough attention to comment though |
| 22:41:18 | m0ar | Is background noise almost completely dependant on firmware? |
| 22:41:32 | Torne | no |
| 22:41:41 | Torne | most players i would suspect hardware |
| 22:41:52 | Torne | but there are instances where we have less noise, i'm sure |
| 22:42:06 | m0ar | Okay, just wondered since that's a feature listed in the Firmware Feature Comparision Table |
| 22:42:08 | AlexP | Torne: I'm putting the wiki to unusable - if they deserve to be promoted then they can be at the same time |
| 22:42:29 | Torne | m0ar: well, there are some players where we know the OF has noise problems and we don't :@) |
| 22:42:33 | Torne | that's why it's there |
| 22:42:47 | Torne | but on most mp3 players that exist any noise problem there is, is probably down to hardware |
| 22:42:55 | Torne | bad design of analogue paths |
| 22:42:56 | Torne | etc |
| 22:43:37 | m0ar | Ah, rite |
| 22:49:54 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:53:04 | Torne | haha, having just had this conversation the latest post in the forum is from someone who appears to have bricked their clip+ during bootloader install |
| 22:53:31 | m0ar | Link :D |
| 22:55:09 | Bagder | ouch |
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| 23:00 |
| 23:00:00 | FlynDice | Torne: can you point me to the message |
| 23:00:28 | Torne | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=24767 |
| 23:00:40 | Torne | gevaerts already responded with "have you tried resetting it" which is probably sufficient :) |
| 23:00:43 | Torne | i just found the timing amusing |
| 23:03:38 | Stephen__ | is there a link to the current source ? as opposed to using svn ? |
| 23:04:12 | bluebro | Stephen__: no, we don't provice an svn tarball anymore. There isn't much point in doing so |
| 23:04:52 | Stephen__ | http://build.rockbox.org/ > should be changed where it says: Daily builds, voices, fonts and source |
| 23:04:59 | Stephen__ | I just grabbed 3.5.1 anyways |
| 23:05:33 | bluebro | good point. |
| 23:05:40 | * | bluebro looks around for Bagder |
| 23:06:33 | * | Bagder jumps out from the shadows and says "g'day sir, you called?" |
| 23:08:11 | | Nick Ypsy is now known as YPSY (~ypsy@geekpadawan.de) |
| 23:09:58 | | Quit Xerion (Quit: ) |
| 23:10:29 | bluebro | Bagder: any thoughts on removing the "sources" line from the daily build page? (The "Daily builds, voices, fonts and source" on build.rockbox.org that is) |
| 23:11:12 | Bagder | maybe we should have daily sources... |
| 23:12:46 | Torne | wastes our bandwidth, no? |
| 23:12:58 | Torne | can we just get ar ead-only http svn mirror instead? |
| 23:13:06 | Torne | so that people who can't access svn because of firewalls can use it? |
| 23:13:10 | | Quit evilnick (Quit: Page closed) |
| 23:13:32 | Torne | well i say mirror, i just mean a mod_dav_svn on the machine that hosts the svn-protocol svn at the moment |
| 23:14:16 | bluebro | weren't the daily tarballs removed because they caused too much work (those FILES files IIRC?) |
| 23:14:38 | bluebro | but I wouldn't object to daily sources. I won't be the one to implement that anyway :) |
| 23:15:03 | Torne | svn not being accessible behind some firewalls is about the only sensible reason why telling people to use svn isn't sufficient, imo |
| 23:15:12 | Bagder | I agree |
| 23:15:16 | Torne | if people are going to compile the source, then they alrady need a whole bunch of stuff |
| 23:15:22 | Torne | requiring that they also have svn is not exactly arduous |
| 23:15:35 | Torne | and http svn is not hard to set up as long as you only support reads |
| 23:15:42 | Torne | since you don't need any access control then :) |
| 23:15:44 | joeyg | we could move to git and gitweb ;) |
| 23:16:17 | bluebro | and what's the gain with git in that area? ;) |
| 23:16:34 | Bagder | it's not even shorter than svn! ;-) |
| 23:16:50 | bluebro | then we'd need to move to hg! |
| 23:17:10 | Bagder | oh indeed, I'm now convinced! |
| 23:17:27 | bluebro | (though I liked git much better than hg when trying) |
| 23:19:01 | joeyg | you can use git over http i believe |
| 23:19:07 | joeyg | so no firewalls to worry about |
| 23:19:18 | Torne | you can use svn over http |
| 23:19:22 | Torne | so that's not really an argument |
| 23:19:59 | joeyg | you suggested svn was not accessible behind some firewalls - in what way? |
| 23:20:18 | Torne | at the moment we expose the repository only through the "native" svn protocol, on the port number usually used for that protocol |
| 23:20:22 | Bagder | svn:// |
| 23:20:30 | Torne | some people's networks only allow connections to fixed ports |
| 23:20:37 | Torne | proxy-only internet access and all that |
| 23:20:48 | joeyg | i gotcha |
| 23:20:48 | bluebro | git is completely different than svn. While I like it pretty much I don't see much gain for the project when switching to git. It we were still using cvs the things would be different ... |
| 23:21:04 | Torne | mod_dav_svn exposes svn repos through WebDAV, which then works on port 80 same as everything else |
| 23:21:18 | Torne | bluebro: i just ignore everyone and use bzr |
| 23:21:20 | Bagder | bluebro: being a git convert myself now, I *do* see a benefit from using git ... |
| 23:21:29 | Torne | and if the project switched to git i would continue to use bzr :) |
| 23:21:45 | joeyg | :) i use git-svn with no trouble at all |
| 23:21:58 | joeyg | though im exploring the s9 so im off in my own little world.. |
| 23:23:08 | bluebro | Bagder: of course there are benefits, but with git-svn everyone can chose :) |
| 23:23:29 | * | bluebro didn't like the branching handling of bzr |
| 23:24:24 | Torne | bluebro: it's just a UI thing |
| 23:24:41 | Torne | git has a totally different way of working to all the others (which are all much the same as each otehr) |
| 23:24:52 | Torne | but they all do almost *exactly* the same things in almost exactly the same way really |
| 23:25:27 | bluebro | well, I wouldn't call this "every branch needs its own folder" a UI thing compared to git's "only one work area" |
| 23:25:35 | Torne | but they don't. |
| 23:25:40 | Torne | And it *is* a UI thing |
| 23:25:43 | bluebro | but yeah, from the functional point of view it's pretty much the same |
| 23:25:49 | Torne | the underlying data is identical |
| 23:26:10 | Torne | also, my rockbox folder has 20+ branches and only four folders :) |
| 23:26:52 | Torne | also also, you can work exactly the way git works if you want |
| 23:26:57 | linuxstb | joeyg: I've just read the recent posts in this thread - http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36073&page=4 - you can just post the URL I gave to the windows binary. Which BTW, I cross-compile on Linux using the mingw32 package - just install that and type "make tcctool.exe" |
| 23:26:59 | Torne | (mine is using a nonstandard plugin, but hey) |
| 23:27:11 | Torne | you just make the branches without workdirs, and then do a lightweight checkout to someplace else |
| 23:27:18 | Torne | then you can switch the branches of that checkout, exactly as with git :) |
| 23:28:04 | bluebro | well, I really found that confusing. Especially the explanations the UI gave me (this tortoise-like interface that comes with bzr in my case) |
| 23:28:37 | joeyg | linuxstb: thanks, i'll post that link when i get home from work |
| 23:28:48 | joeyg | and thanks for the mingw32 tip, i had no clue that's what that was |
| 23:28:57 | Torne | i'm not sure why branches being directories is confusing, though, still. |
| 23:29:04 | Torne | i find git's way *extremely* confusing |
| 23:29:10 | Torne | i much prefer being able to see it there in my filesystem |
| 23:31:28 | joeyg | ive always liked git's way |
| 23:31:42 | joeyg | just typing 'git init' on every new project, then 'git branch' to see branches |
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| 23:35:37 | Torne | joeyg: but i build anything up to half a dozen branches of rockbox at a time |
| 23:35:49 | Torne | joeyg: having them in seperate directories to start with makes that trivial |
| 23:36:09 | CIA-5 | New commit by alle (r25958): Add the cyrillic 'yo' to 12-Adobe-Helvetica font |
| 23:36:37 | joeyg | agreed |
| 23:37:02 | joeyg | though, you could add 'git branch' instructions to your build script and get a similar effect |
| 23:37:26 | joeyg | i agree that's a silly pain though |
| 23:38:27 | Torne | i understand how to work with it, i just don't see where it's an *advantage*, excpe tit takes slightly less disk space |
| 23:38:31 | Torne | disk space is cheap ;) |
| 23:39:46 | Torne | (and as i noted above you can not hav ea working tree checked out in each branch, if you want, and just keep any number of seperate trees) |
| 23:40:23 | joeyg | it lets git store branches as diffs of each other and with its linked-list type structure |
| 23:40:30 | joeyg | which is a fair bit faster and simplifies merging |
| 23:40:35 | Torne | er, bzr does that though |
| 23:40:41 | Torne | i only have one copy of all my revisions |
| 23:41:09 | Torne | the seperate branch folders are just a tiny metadata file that says which commit is the tip of that branch |
| 23:41:13 | Torne | and then optionally a workdir |
| 23:41:28 | Torne | they're in folders because the usual case is to have a workdir, so they need to be in one anyway |
| 23:41:52 | * | gevaerts finds this all very interesting, but... |
| 23:41:59 | Torne | okay yeah, this is kinda offtopic ;) |
| 23:42:07 | joeyg | alright :) |
| 23:42:14 | Torne | Bagder: are you the one to pester about getting http access to svn, though? |
| 23:42:20 | Torne | returning to the actual point :) |
| 23:42:33 | * | Bagder whistles as he's slowly hiding behind gevaerts |
| 23:42:41 | AlexP | That would be useful :) |
| 23:43:10 | Bagder | me or zagor would be the guys to pester, yes |
| 23:43:39 | Bagder | but since zagor is younger, you should poke on him! |
| 23:43:47 | AlexP | haha :) |
| 23:43:50 | scorche|sh | and he isnt shunning devcon! |
| 23:44:06 | Bagder | right, you'll reach him easily then! |
| 23:44:21 | Torne | well, i don't personally need it.. it's just that *sometimes* people have the valid reason that they want to ahve a source archive because they can't get to svn |
| 23:44:27 | Torne | so we should maybe fix that |
| 23:44:34 | Torne | so we can just accuse them of being lazy instaed ;) |
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