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#rockbox log for 2010-05-20

00:00:37kugelfunman: I did (see
00:01:28 Quit Beta2K (Read error: Operation timed out)
00:02:15max242kugel: that's a very good trick, i'm gonna do this from now on too!
00:02:50kugelI had a fs corruption once from just turning of so I stopped doing that
00:03:29max242i would love to see USB transfers working properly, then no OF needed anymore, and no more waiting ;-)
00:03:41 Join wincent [0] (
00:03:55max242but i won't hold my breath, i'm a pretty happy rockboxer!
00:04:01funmankugel: alignement need to be higher for DMA: 8 * 4
00:04:16kugelfunman: I know, I modified test_disk for that
00:04:36funmanthe last patch aligns on 4
00:05:37kugelfunman: none of the patches there modifies test_disk ?
00:06:30kugelah, I see, my alignment test is wrong
00:06:46kugelthe test_disk numbers should be correct though
00:08:01 Quit CGL (Remote host closed the connection)
00:08:30kugelthe improvement from doing dma directly is not huge, I guess the cache coherency functions create a noticeable overhead
00:08:49funmanno, why?
00:08:59kugelare you looking at my chart?
00:09:02funmannope ^^
00:09:17kugelit's linked on the task
00:11:43funmanwhat's with limiting 1st transfer to 8 sectors ?
00:12:01 Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
00:12:34kugelI don't remember
00:12:57funmani suppose debug in test_disk
00:13:36funmanbtw clipv2 is still running with the cpu_frequency patch ^^
00:13:59kugelnice, I'll try a build on my way to the uni tomorrow
00:14:11 Quit evilnick_B (Quit: Page closed)
00:14:46kugelfunman: looked at my chart now? :) I think dma directly isn't necessarily worth it
00:15:58kugelor can we "cast" the passed buffer to uncached and don't use the cache coherency functions? I didn't try that
00:16:31funmanUNCACHED_ADDR(buf), but you can't use it with DMA then
00:16:50kugelhm yea it doesn't work
00:16:55funmani put the patch on FS #11297
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00:51:30likemindeadUbuntu 10.04 isn't mounting my iPod (4th Gen/Color) when I plug it in. Nor is it seen under Nautilus or the Disk Utility. HALP?
00:52:12likemindeadI just want to sync some files to it. :-\
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01:40:02CIA-5New commit by jethead71 (r26180): Gigabeat S: Use longer battery filter; lag is not a problem with voltage for charging since it's I-controlled. Initialize local copy of last_inputs ...
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02:16:52kisakjhMikeS: THe Fuzev1 here came from woot too
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03:49:31viksWould like to know is there any cook multichannel support?
03:50:09viks@mt:Does current cook decoder support Multichannel decoding
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04:03:40saratogaviks: it prints "MC_COOK not supported!", so it looks like stereo/mono only
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04:19:06chrisbwhy did sandisk discontinue the docking station for the sansa e200?
04:22:50kisakchrisb: economics?
04:24:21chrisbkisak: yes...maybe budget buyers don't even think about accessories...
04:29:18kisakrelatively speaking, I splurged on a case for my Fuze
04:29:48kisaka $4.50 case for a $30 Fuze
04:31:05kisakthe front panel of this Fuze is just too fragile for my daily grind
04:31:25kisakI put some cracks in it just from it being in my pocket
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04:42:40chrisbi want my sansa e200 to drive my bose radio, and it does a decent job from the earphone jack
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04:43:34chrisbbut i really wanted line-out driving the radio speakers so I tried the Griffin power dock, which had an audio line-out
04:44:08chrisbbut something wasn't right, even with sansa's software running
04:44:22chrisbthe line-out couldn't drive the audio input...i don't know why
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04:48:34chrisbare the ipod docks any better?
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05:16:30pirokoNice. I notice the sansa clip v2 port is "usuable" now
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05:22:43pirokoUsable too
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05:27:14CIA-5New commit by wincent (r26181): pdbox: Adjusted return values for functions read() and write()
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05:32:09Orion7other than whats listed in the forum is there a way to know what new changes are going into each release of a new port?
05:32:27Orion7each build
05:33:07saratogaOrion7: change log on the front page and the svn logs (also front page)
05:33:20CIA-5New commit by wincent (r26182): pdbox: Made size value signed
05:35:18Orion7i don't see that for some reason
05:36:11Orion7the fuze v2 builds seemed to have introduced some new problems awhile after 26006 i believe but i think they are also working on hotkeys maybe?
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05:37:48Orion7i do some things under current build if that's what you were referring to
05:38:54CIA-5New commit by wincent (r26183): pdbox: Got rid of signedness-related warnings
05:39:12Orion7ok i think i found it
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05:51:50Orion7ok i checked the change log and nowhere does it list daily changes for each build of fuze v2..anyone know where these are?
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05:53:03Orion7i checked the svn section, unsupported section, daily builds section
05:53:59saratogaOrion7: the svn logs show every single change made to the rockbox code, if you want daily updates, you should read those
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05:55:51Orion7i must not know the right word for svn
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06:02:58Orion7i searched for "svn" on the front page and on the change logs page but it isn't there, is there another word for it
06:03:09Orion7i mean i actually used find
06:04:51Orion7actually i looked through every section in the change logs section
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06:10:56robin0800_Orion7: subversion
06:11:20Orion7oh ok yeah i'm pretty new
06:12:28S_a_i_n_tOrion7: Then, this will help.
06:12:42S_a_i_n_tThe RB wiki has a /lot/ of info in it.
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06:15:46Orion7looks like i'd need to be a coder to know what the daily changes mean
06:17:10Orion7like instead of saying fixed usb charging it says things like use ascodec_readbytes() to cache all needed registers in a row
06:18:18Orion7but i find the new port forums very helpful
06:18:32krazykitwell, many commits aren't exactly critical to the everyday use of rockbox
06:19:40Orion7so its trying to work towards improvements or fixes
06:21:55krazykitright. anything really important (new features and such) will show up on the MajorChanges page
06:23:42CIA-5New commit by wincent (r26184): pdbox: Rewrote recently added bugfixes
06:28:34Orion7krazykit, what section is major changes under
06:30:12krazykitit's on the front page in the quick links section as "change log"
06:31:45Orion7k perfect thanks! bbl
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09:48:15max242just to inform you that preparing album artwork for pictureflow is still freezing up my fuze v1
09:48:34max242... but not that frequent anymore
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09:52:16flatroseis that for bmp or jpeg?
09:52:16max242i've got an 8G fuze v1, and when the pictureflow cache builds successfully, it takes 2 to 3 minutes
09:53:16S_a_i_n_ttwo to three minutes? yuck...
09:53:19max242when building the cache with the 16G uSD inserted, it takes 6 to 7 minutes or even more,
09:53:44flatrosemaybe you've got some really big ones, like 2k pixels +?
09:53:47S_a_i_n_tMy Nano 1g does it in about ~15 seconds, and the 2g in less than 5 seconds.
09:54:47max242to be really sure, i should check the sizes of the Cover.jpg files, i don't really know what size they do have got
09:55:29S_a_i_n_tI usually make sure that my "cover.jpg" files are 100x100px
09:55:35max242obviously the more powerfull the processor, the faster things goes
09:55:48S_a_i_n_tAFAIK (well, for the Nano at least) there are no themes with AA that big.
09:56:06S_a_i_n_t100x100 would be *plenty* for the Fuze
09:57:01max242hmm, then i should go over my entire collection, and resize them accordingly
09:57:11pixelmathe Fuze has a bigger screen than the Nano (220x176 vs. 176x132) both colour
09:57:23pixelmapixels that is
09:57:27max242which is a big job, unless a script could do that job off course
09:57:52S_a_i_n_tmax242: mp3Tag can automate that task
09:58:01S_a_i_n_tas well as several other programs
09:58:24max242resize the jpgs, can mp3tag actually do that?
09:58:41S_a_i_n_tassuming you have embedded AA that is.
09:59:01S_a_i_n_tif not, I use Irfanview for large batch jobs
09:59:36max242i thought that rockbox need a special AA-file in the folder where your music is, and not embedded in the mp3 tags themselves
09:59:43S_a_i_n_t suggests a few programs that can automate the task for you.
10:00:00AlexPmax242: Yes, embedded isn't supported
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10:00:08AlexPAltohugh the files can go in a few places
10:00:12max242alright, something to check out this evening when at home
10:00:24S_a_i_n_tmax242: yes, that is correct. but mp3Tag can extract the embedded AA and name/resize it to your specification
10:00:50S_a_i_n_tit can go through a directory and do this recursively also, so you don;t need to do it for every album.
10:01:56S_a_i_n_tmax242: Check out specifically for utilities to automate the AA generation process.
10:02:00max242when the 16G uSD is inserted
10:02:32max242it locks up most of the times i try, and it definitely shouldn't
10:03:00max242so it is a bug, no?
10:03:10S_a_i_n_tHave you reported this as a bug report on Flyspray?
10:03:22AlexPIt can take ages, if you have a lot of albums, big album art etc
10:03:47AlexPLast time I tried it on my gigabeat S (v. fast CPU, but 100 GB of music) it took some minutes
10:03:56AlexPBut it shouldn't hang altogether
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10:04:21max242i posted a message here
10:04:23AlexPmax242: What you could try is to see if it doesn't like some specific images you have
10:04:33max242in which there is a reference to flyspray
10:04:41AlexPSo do a binary search, and see if it is reproducable
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10:05:12max242it is not because of some jpg file, i'm definitely sure about that
10:05:17 Quit JdGordon (Remote host closed the connection)
10:05:17AlexPHow so?
10:05:31max242sometimes building the cache works, most of the times it is not
10:05:43S_a_i_n_t2~3 minutes seems a little slow to me...but maybe the Nano (2g in particular) has some hardware that makes it a lot faster. My pictureflow cache on an 8GB Nano2g (full of .mp3 albums) takes less than 10seconds. Closer to 5.
10:05:47max242it is probably interrupt related, the issue started since r25299
10:05:52AlexPS_a_i_n_t: It isn't
10:05:58AlexPIt depends on lots of things
10:06:09max242such as?
10:06:33AlexPNumber of albums, size of art, speed of processor, etc. etc.
10:06:36AlexPThe code I mean
10:06:42AlexPer, the speed I mean
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10:07:03S_a_i_n_tThe 2g Nano blitzes the 1g when it comes to building the pictureflow cache, but my 1g still does it in less than ~15 seconds usually. Perhaps 20 sometimes.
10:07:03max242at least, funman did a change lowering interrupt priority, and the chance things lock up is lower now, but the real issue still remains
10:07:19max242so yes, you are right there are more factors which do cause the issue
10:07:39AlexPI meant there are lots of factors that influence the speed of building
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10:07:58max242and the speed of building, ok, got that
10:08:00AlexPmax242: Either open a new bug report, or comment on an existing one if there is one
10:08:46max242i strongly believe FS #11267 is about the same thing, but this should be verified
10:08:54AlexPIt is the only real way - most devs don't use the database, let along pictureflow
10:08:58max242and maybe it's title should be rephrased
10:09:01 Quit jordan` (Read error: No route to host)
10:09:24max242yeah, i'm aware of that
10:09:55max242and as i'm not a developer myself, i'm pestering you developers over here ;-)
10:10:11max242going to work now, bye
10:10:21AlexPA bug report is the proper way - it contains all the info in one place, and then other people see it too
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10:11:41wodzfunman: ping
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10:19:35wodzI found the bug which affected so strong performance of HD200 :-) I am so ashamed It is so stupid mistake. I copied PLL settings for 5250 but HD200 uses 5249
10:20:36B4gderwodz: congrats!
10:20:44B4gdera long struggle
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10:22:21wodzI found it by accident - I was looking at battery graph and found out it is refreshed every ~4-5 minutes instead of 1 minute. That makes me thinking that something is wrong with system tick settings or PLL frequency
10:24:06CIA-5New commit by wodz (r26185): HD200 - fix PLL settings. This fixes looong standing bug heavily affecting performance
10:26:15pixelmawodz: nice :)
10:29:56JdGordonanyone want to help with fm screen pics for cabbie?
10:30:14S_a_i_n_thelp in what way?
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10:30:50S_a_i_n_twhat needs to be done?
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10:31:29JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: I tihnk we need a pic for scan/preset mode, one for tuned? (a signal stregth meter would be nice, so later when we do have signal strength readin it could go there), and sterero/mono
10:31:35JdGordonand the top banner
10:33:12S_a_i_n_tWell, I can get the top banner done tonight at least. IIRC pixelma wanted to do the mono/b&w targets.
10:34:15JdGordonit doesnt need to be *perfect* but having at least something for release would be nice
10:35:01S_a_i_n_tsweet, sure. I'll do what I can.
10:35:10S_a_i_n_tI'll start with the top banner.
10:35:43S_a_i_n_tAny objestions if I re-do the banner for the WPS as well? It'd be a lot easier for me to make them both match that way.
10:36:09S_a_i_n_tOtherwise I'll have to try figure out what font was used for the original.
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10:38:46JdGordonneed to figure out which screens need work on
10:39:19pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: what do you want to do there? And did you see my suggesion about making the "Now playing" there a text string? (mentioned twice)
10:40:06S_a_i_n_tNo, I didn''d also need to use multifont though.
10:40:16S_a_i_n_totherwise changing the font would make it look shit.
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10:40:57S_a_i_n_tcan all the targets handle adding a small font for the title alone?
10:41:11S_a_i_n_tI figure bitmaps would take up less room?
10:41:20S_a_i_n_ts/bitmaps/a bitmap/
10:41:45pixelmait would also make it possible to localise it to some extent (as text size is limited and some languages can't have characters that small) and it is not possible on monochrome screens at the moment
10:41:54S_a_i_n_tthe advantage of having a text screen is, it'd translatable.
10:42:13S_a_i_n_tbut then it needs to be multifont, or changing the font would make it look crap.
10:42:42wodzshit last patch fixes performance problems but screwsup button reading :/
10:43:14pixelmait is already a lot smaller than the default text so would need multifont anyways
10:43:38JdGordonmultifont should work on all targets
10:43:54n1swodz: congratulations on finding the bug :)
10:44:12JdGordonwhich ipods dont have attachments support?
10:44:14pixelmayes, but there is no way to have white text on black for monochrome...
10:44:32S_a_i_n_tso.....this is decision time. Use a bitmap, and replace the current banner in the wps to match (easy), or use a text string, andf add multifont to thw wps, and possibly have to make some exceptions for players with small image buffers? (maybe hard)
10:44:56S_a_i_n_twill there be any targets that won't be able to donate 10K of skin buffer to a font and not miss it?
10:45:43JdGordonits 3K now for small screens also
10:46:16S_a_i_n_tso, I guess replace the banner in the background with a "blank" banner...and do it with multifont?
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10:46:24S_a_i_n_tthat I can do.
10:47:20pixelmacurrently the only way on monochrome would be making an "inverted" font but that still won't do for a banner I think and is not nice
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10:48:02JdGordonaccording to DeviceChart these are the sizes which need doing
10:48:35JdGordonpixelma: the mono targets dont use a backdrop anyway, so why not just use black text?
10:48:41JdGordonor an image on them which road do I take? The "blank banner+text string" makes the mist sense...but I know *nothing* about the mono screens (pixelma seems at home there).
10:48:53S_a_i_n_tIt'd be nice to do the same for both.
10:49:05JdGordonits silly to use the same
10:49:36pixelmaJdGordon: this was about getting rid of the image or better: making it more flexible. They currently use a bitmap showing white text on black
10:49:44S_a_i_n_tit may be, but as I said...I don't understand the non colour screens.
10:53:26JdGordonthat link has the .psd for the origional graphics...
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10:57:25S_a_i_n_teasy enough to just chop up the original .bmps
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10:57:48S_a_i_n_talso...I can't seem to find a few of the screen sizes on your list...
10:58:32S_a_i_n_tcan't seem to find that one.
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10:58:49AlexPwhat 4 bit display do we have?
10:59:27S_a_i_n_tno idea
10:59:44n1si don't think we have any 4 bit displays
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11:00:05n1ssome remote
11:00:19AlexPS_a_i_n_t: I don't think 160x128x4 exists - what target do you think this is for?
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11:00:39AlexP128x64x1 is the iriver LCD remote
11:00:39S_a_i_n_tlooking at a pastebin from JdGordon on what needed doing.
11:00:45S_a_i_n_ta few I can't find.
11:00:46funmanwodz: i knew you had fixed the bug when I did svn up ;) congrats!
11:00:47n1siriver h120/h300 lcd remote is 128*64*1
11:01:04JdGordonx4 should be x2 on that paste :p
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11:01:21JdGordonwhich is the iaudio remote
11:01:26pixelmaI guess he meant x2 - greyscale
11:01:26AlexPand iriver H100
11:01:51Guest98639Is it possible to display album art in wps @ clip?
11:02:04AlexPIt'll look shit
11:02:05n1syeah, no configure file defines a LCD_DEPTH or LCD_REMOTE_DEPTH of 4
11:02:12AlexPBut that's your choice :)
11:02:19pixelmano album art in monochrome
11:02:28AlexPAh, ny mistake
11:02:34AlexPOf course it isn't possible
11:02:41AlexPWhen I actually stop and think :)
11:02:52pixelmathere are 128x64x1 "ports - the Clip got its own to account for the weird yellow/blue display split
11:03:07wodzfunman: how do You see rework of apps/debug_menu.c ?
11:03:18Guest98639So yes or no
11:03:30n1sGuest98639: no
11:03:53funmanwodz: the same way you did for MAS code, move it into target/
11:04:02pixelmano in the WPS, pictureflow works though (but doesn't look very nice I heard)
11:04:06funmanthere are already debug-XXX.c files
11:04:33Guest98639pictureflow is cool
11:05:35pixelmaS_a_i_n_t, JdGordon: the Iaudio remote is 128x96x2 - the wiki explains that (what's on there about the same font has become wrong though)
11:06:11wodzfunman: for some targets yes
11:06:43funmani think it's not a top priority anyway
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11:07:27funman'debug' code & menu can be dirty
11:07:49S_a_i_n_tI have no idea how to do the non colour targets in this way proposed, I geuss they can't currently do the whole "text string+blank banner" thing?
11:08:24pixelmagreyscale could I think, monochrome can't
11:08:30S_a_i_n_tIt'll work fine for the colour targets.
11:08:55wodzfunman: the cleanest way is get rid of debug_menu.c and reimplement it in target tree for every target but this will lead to code duplication.
11:09:01S_a_i_n_tHmmm...I'll do the colour targets now, and pass my working folder on to you then pixelma?
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11:09:07S_a_i_n_twe have a few weeks to do it.
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11:10:22funmanwodz: if there is code which works on several target, perhaps it could go to specific files? debug-pp.c debug-as3514.c .
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11:11:06wodzfunman: ok I rethink this and start work when I fix button reading on MPIO
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11:12:05pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: it would be cool if it could be cleaned up while at it and things like "show dB value while changing value" be added
11:13:47S_a_i_n_tThat'll be easy to do, I'll do it when I get to the code side of things. I also guess now is the time to switch to "progressbar style" volume and battery...but I'm just doing the GFX for now.
11:14:12S_a_i_n_tI don't want to get into the code untill I am at home, I can do the GFX easy enough from here though
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11:25:29S_a_i_n_twhere on earth is the 128x64x1 wps/rwps(or whatever it is) backdrop....? Does it even exist?
11:25:42S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: pixelma: ^^
11:27:10pixelmathere are no backdrops on monochrome screens
11:27:28S_a_i_n_taha...that would explain that then
11:27:35pixelmathe closest you get is a statically loaded bitmap - this is used for the "Now playing" bar for example
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11:45:20pamauryfunman: it is the disassembly of the fuze firmware, what a enable_peripheral(4) would do ? Is it PLLB ?
11:45:25pamaury*in the
11:46:04funmanaccordign to the clipv1 it is memorystick
11:46:20funmani think they don't change across all AMSv1, not so sure about the v2
11:46:34funmanPLLs aren't peripherals
11:46:41funmanfuzev2 ?
11:47:02pamauryeuh clipv2 sorry
11:48:24funman14BA case 4 of the switch: it touhes CGU_USB
11:48:34pamauryI found a duplicate of the audio_isr usb init code and this codes begins with a enable_peripheral(4). It is still unclear to me how this code is called but there is definetely swomething missing, I can't get any usb interrupt for now on my clip+ and I think it's because I'm missing some glue code
11:48:51funmanCGU_USB |= (1<<5);
11:50:37pamauryanyway, I was already doing that..., grrr, I'll continue my research
11:52:44funmanand CGU_PERI |= 1<<21;
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11:53:37pamauryhum, the code is called from a subroutine of ControlLoop, doing a kind of dispatching after reading int status it seems
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11:59:19S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: pixelma: Update, just so you don't go and do anything I've already done. I have all the backgrounds done, and I'm just going through now working out viewport dimensions for each screensize for the conditional "Now Playing/FM Radio" wps string.
12:00:41JdGordon_Cool. Except some don't use voewpprts at all
12:00:54JdGordon_So using a VP will break them
12:01:04S_a_i_n_toh, won't be conditional either will it. heheh..oops.
12:02:01S_a_i_n_tits only the charcells that don't use viewports isn't it?
12:02:27gevaertsthey don't?
12:03:42pixelmafrom their capability *currently* that's correct but the Player also doesn't have a cabbiev2 port. But some cabbiev2 WPSs just don't use viewports yet
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12:05:02pixelmaamiconn also ponders implementing viewports for charcells - less differences
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12:07:04n1swodz: part of the debug menu is the same for all targets, limke the stack debug screen and the buffering thread screen for swcodec, so i think, keep the generic parts where they are and only move target specific code into the target tee
12:07:08n1stree, even
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12:13:16CIA-5New commit by wodz (r26186): HD200 - fix button readings afrer PLL settings change
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12:21:56CIA-5New commit by wodz (r26187): HD200 - adjust LCD_SCANRATE (changed a bit after PLL settings change)
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12:34:53*funman sees some nice bugs in fat & file code
12:35:53funmanfat_readwrite in file.c uses &(file->cache) or file->cache as buffer
12:36:21wodzehh my last changes exposed another bug which manifest itself by "clicks" during playback
12:37:28wodzhow can I tell from fft plugin what is the frequency of "clicks"?
12:37:47wodzI mean what is the scale
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12:44:08wodzarchivator: ping
12:44:25archivatorwodz: pong
12:44:52S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: backdrops here: I didn't really know what to do for pb-128-64x1 and 112x64x1 so I kinda avoided them ;) But, the rest are done, and maybe one or two I didn't have to do. I worked out the positions of the banner for each case also, so it will be easy to center the text on it.
12:44:54wodzhow can I tell from fft plugin what is the frequency of "clicks"? What is frequency scale in plugin
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12:46:36pamauryfunman: what zero_A6 does ?
12:47:03archivatorwodz: the frequency scale is linear. Kinda hard to measure precise frequencies(it's not meant for that, really) but the scale should go from 1 to the Nyquist frequency in Nyquist freq/2048 increments. Not, really, though, due to how the Fourier transform works but close enough.
12:47:04funmanGPIOA_PIN(6) = 0; ?
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12:48:30wodzanyone know how to produce "file of silence" with sox?
12:48:43pamauryYes but what zeroing A6 does ? I'm trying to understand why is it called with some usb code whereras you comment relate it to lcd
12:48:44S_a_i_n_tBut, the more I look at it, the more I fear it looking crap. The advantage of using a text string is that its translatable, which is a good thing, but I'm scared of the font looking crap on the banner. If bitmaps were used, it wouldn;t be translatable, we'd only need one extra bitmap, and we could have a nice font like the "now playing" cabbie has now.
12:48:50funmanwodz: just download 4'33" ;)
12:49:01funmanelse take any wav file, and write only 0 after the header
12:50:05pamauryfunman: and also what does sleep_timer1 does ? Is it a way to sleep for a small amount of time ?
12:50:57funmanyes but i don't remember how much
12:51:07pamauryok doesn't matter
12:51:09funmanit uses TIMER1
12:51:45funmani think it's milliseconds
12:52:50archivatorwodz: flac −−sample-rate=44100 −−channels=2 −−endian=little −−sign=signed −−bps=16 - < /dev/null
12:53:20wodzand how to tell the length?
12:53:33wodz/dev/zero I suppose
12:53:48wodzor CTRL-C will do?
12:54:03funmandd if=/dev/zero count=2048|flac ...
12:54:12archivatorwhat funman said.
12:54:21archivatorI'm still a bit sleepy, I'm afraid.
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12:55:18wodzcount should be 2*2*44100*time_in_sec right?
12:57:51funmanif you do bs=1
12:58:21funmanbs=$((2*2*44100)) count=seconds
12:59:00wodzrunning we will see :-)
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13:10:11JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: its not translated now anyway so dont worry too much there
13:10:22JdGordonbeing translatable would be nice though
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13:15:15JdGordonI'm going to work on the 240x320x16 FMS...
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13:16:40S_a_i_n_twell, I worked some stuff out...but as I said, I'm kinda scared it'll look crap as text instead of a bitmap.
13:16:56JdGordonscrew it.. make it an image
13:17:18JdGordonalso, it might have been overlooked, reusing the backdrop image will save a massive amount of the buffer
13:18:11*JdGordon meat 320x240x16 above
13:18:41S_a_i_n_tyeah, I know. so it'll be a lot smaller in total if the backdrops stay as is, and there's just a bitmap overlay for the "FM Radio" title.
13:19:19JdGordondo it properly so the wps gets an overlay image also would be better
13:20:17S_a_i_n_tyeah blank out the top of the wps background and have two bitmaps?
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13:29:24JdGordon35pt fonts look small on the ipod vid :/
13:31:53JdGordonis there any reason to show the min/max freqs on the progressbar?
13:33:28S_a_i_n_tI think so.
13:33:45S_a_i_n_tjust because virtually every other radio does.
13:34:13JdGordonI need some new icons done :(
13:35:28*JdGordon looks at bieber and thinks a working editor would be sweet right about now :D
13:38:12S_a_i_n_tI still have that 16px iconset I made from the new tango...?
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13:42:12*JdGordon hates that the ipod and sansa buttons are swazpped for menu/play
13:45:54amiconnpixelma: Charcell *can* use viewports - it's the wps code that needs fixing
13:46:17funmanamiconn: ping fs#11189
13:46:53pixelmathat's what I meant
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13:48:35amiconnfunman: I don't know when I'll have time to review it?
13:48:37pamauryfunman: what are the nice bugs in fat ?
13:48:56funmanamiconn: ok, i believe just testing if audio works would be enough
13:49:17funmanpamaury: mixing pointers to a buffer and addresses of these pointers
13:49:24pamauryreally ?
13:49:31B4gderone of these days we should make the sim able to use the rockbox FAT driver against a file image using FAT format...
13:49:41JdGordon -< preset mode with RDS display
13:49:52pamaurythat sounds terrifying
13:50:01JdGordon <- scan mode + rds
13:50:26JdGordonnot sure where to put radio art...
13:50:38amiconnfunman: Why is that patch so important?
13:50:40pamauryB4gder: perhaps after RaaA is done, the sim will have a nicer architecture. I hesitated to add this feature once but never had the courage
13:51:01pamauryfunman: did you fix the fat bugs or want someone to look at it ?
13:51:04B4gderour FAT code would become a lot better once we can use gdb etc to debug it
13:51:10funmanpamaury: pointers are on the stack so perhaps their address corresponds to what they point to
13:51:21funmanamiconn: i want all target code in target/ !
13:51:29pamauryok, I'll have a look at it
13:53:04funmanpamaury: see disk.c also: sector argument of storage_read_sectors
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13:56:15amiconnB4gder: That's been possible for years...
13:56:29JdGordonamiconn: this should make you smile.... I have one of these ( which I want to get working with rockbox... kugel If i wanted to replace the sdl output for charcell with the code for this, whre would the code go?
13:56:46B4gderamiconn: using rockbox against a file?
13:57:03amiconnNo, but using gdb for fat driver debugging
13:57:15B4gderonly partially
13:57:24B4gderbut yes
13:57:33amiconnPartially in which way?
13:57:36wodzI have hardware capable of debugging FAT code
13:57:41amiconnWe have that serial gdb stub for sh1
13:57:46B4gderamiconn: ask how many devs in here that ever done it
13:57:47wodzI mean BDM/gdb combo
13:58:16kugelJdGordon: target/hosted/lcd-* I guess, but I don't know if it's doable easily
13:58:43JdGordonI guess untill raaa is more ready I'd have to use the charcell sim and force my driver instead?
13:58:52B4gderwodz: yes, we have sh1 and BDM ways to do it
13:59:18B4gderbut not valgrind for example
13:59:21wodzI found out what produces "clicks" :-) LCD data transfer interfere with sound output in analog domain! inceasing lcd wait states fixes this
13:59:58kugelJdGordon: I think you'd have better chances with a plain unix port which doesn't use sdl
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14:00:41JdGordonstill nothing untill raaa is done thopugh?
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14:03:01kugelcould be earlier, I have code for the thread and audio part; button, timer and drawing needs a replacement still
14:03:16kugelbut I promise nothing :)
14:05:26CIA-5New commit by wodz (r26188): HD200 - increase sligtly wait states for lcd. This removes clicks in playback and lcd updates are fast anyway
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14:06:09kugelwodz: forgot to update the comments?
14:06:33wodza right
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14:10:50kugelwodz: don't want to fix it?
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14:11:17wodzI am cross checking with datasheet
14:12:28CIA-5New commit by wodz (r26189): fix comments
14:12:37pamauryfunman: I *think* that for a static array, say buffer, buffer=&buffer=&buffer[0]
14:13:44wodzbuffer = &buffer[0] for sure but &buffer is IMO wrong
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14:14:17funmanit just works because buffer is on the stack and its address is on the stack too, before the buffer i think
14:14:20pamauryif buffer is a static array, &buffer does make any sense but what could else it could value ?
14:14:29pamauryfunman: no, I don't think so
14:14:34funmanit should just use buffer or &buffer[0]
14:15:16pamauryperhaps it depends on the compiler, anyway, it seems rather strange
14:15:36wodzbuffer is a pointer so &buffer is pointer to pointer
14:15:49B4gderfor a static array 'buffer' has no address as it doesn't actually exist
14:16:17wodzI love this little quircks in C
14:16:55kugelwodz: there's a difference between arrays and pointers
14:17:05pamauryI think that the standard says that buffer is implecitely converted to buffer[0] when the address is needed
14:17:33kugelbuffer stands for the address of the first element, but it doesn't take space so you cannot take it's address
14:17:49pamauryhence, &buffer can only refer to the address of the first element
14:18:11kugelyes (assuming that's a valid statement)
14:18:18pamauryI admit that anyway it makes the code less clear but I think it is well defined. Who has a copy of the C satndard ?
14:18:26kugelit's a bit like function points, &func == func
14:18:48wodzIt become 'academic' discussion
14:18:57funmanpamaury: anyway all the code should use the same thing, and for me (who doesn't know the C standard by heart) &buffer[0] or buffer are more clear than &buffer
14:19:00wodzfor me it looks weird &buffer
14:19:12B4gderI think &buffer should be avoided
14:19:25B4gderexactly for that reason
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14:20:39pamauryExcept when it is the operand of the sizeof operator or the unary & operator, or is a
14:20:39pamaurystring literal used to initialize an array, an expression that has type ‘‘array of type’’ is
14:20:39pamaury converted to an expression with type ‘‘pointer to type’’ that points to the initial element of
14:20:39DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
14:20:39pamaury the array object and is not an lvalue. If the array object has register storage class, the
14:20:39pamaury behavior is undefined.
14:20:57pamaurymight be related
14:21:14funmanit just says arrays are pointers?
14:21:26pamaurynoooooooooooooooooooo, arrays are not pointers !!
14:21:47pamaurythere are pointers in most situations except a few ones
14:22:05funmanexcept when using sizeof or &, ok
14:22:05Tornearrays are just trivially coercable to pointers in contexts that require one
14:22:25pamauryI'm trying to find the description of what happen with the &
14:22:49Tornepamaury: nothing special.. the array has an address in memory, and & returns that address.
14:23:02pamauryyes, you're right
14:23:08pamaurynothing more to say :)
14:23:10Tornepamaury: it happens that that's the same as the address of the zeroth element, or the smae as the result of coercing the array directly to a pointer :)
14:23:13Tornebut that's irrelevant :)
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14:26:52pamauryfunman: I think your bug with file->cache is the same because iirc file->cache is an array
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14:28:41funmanyes it was the same thing (not a bug but a weird thing)
14:33:17pamaurydid someone ever tried to get the usb spec from synopsis ? (for as3525v2 (and v1 ?))
14:33:26funmani tried they never answered
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14:41:26funmanpamaury: to enable USB interrupt you should just need to do VIC_INT_ENABLE = INTERRUPT_USB
14:41:57Blue_DudeOK, the keymap issue has been raised again. Is that on the agenda for discussion next month? They're a mess.
14:42:25Blue_DudeBTW, buffer and &buffer[0] are equivalent, but not &buffer.
14:42:36pamauryfunman: and to disable it ?
14:43:02Blue_Dude&buffer is the address of a pointer, not the address of an array element.
14:43:22kugelBlue_Dude: you're wrong
14:43:28CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:43:28*pamaury should think before asking...
14:43:39Blue_DudeLooking at K&R and it seems to say just that...
14:43:45Blue_DudeNot explicitly.
14:44:01funmanhm battery_bench didn't write anything when charging clipv1 :/
14:44:16funmanonly the header, no measures
14:44:26pamauryBlue_Dude: &buffer is the address of the buffer. For all sensical implementation of an array, this is the address of the first element.
14:45:10Blue_Dude"buffer" and "&buffer[0]" are addresses of the first element. How can &buffer also be?
14:45:40kugelbuffer is not a pointer..
14:46:01TorneBlue_Dude: see logs of just befor eyou joined :)
14:46:30TorneBlue_Dude: we did this one 20 mins ago
14:46:35Blue_DudeTorne: I did, but... I'm confused.
14:46:39Blue_DudeAs usual.
14:46:39Tornearrays are not pointers
14:46:48Blue_DudeNo, but...
14:46:50Tornearrays are converted to pointers automatically when a pointer is needed
14:46:58Blue_DudeRight, but...
14:47:00Tornean array is an object in memory, like any other variable, and it has an address
14:47:05Tornewhich you get if you do & on it
14:47:18Blue_DudeYes, but...
14:48:01Blue_DudeAnyway, "buffer" and "&buffer[0]" are explicitly OK, so why not stick with that...
14:48:12Torneyes, that was also the conclusion we came to
14:48:26Blue_Dudeanyway, about keymaps...
14:48:35Tornebut &buffer is still explicitly OK according to C, it's just confusing to some humans apparently :)
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14:49:20Blue_DudeCouldn't find that reference, just a note saying it was a bad idea.
14:49:30Blue_DudePerhaps not illegal.
14:49:47Torneit's not a bad idea, for any reason other than "it's not written often so people may not know what it means", though :)
14:49:56Torneit has an entirely explicit and well-defined meaning
14:49:57pamauryC is confusing to lots of people on tricky points. The array are not pointers thing is really useful in some situations but can be confusing
14:50:52pamauryanyway, something can "fix" that to avoid confusion
14:50:53kugelthat's not rockbox related anymore
14:51:13funmanpamaury: you want to change it ?
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14:52:04pamauryI don't have a clean tree but if you want I can do that later, if a majority of people here agree
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14:53:23CIA-5New commit by funman (r26190): fuzev2: charging curve and voltage limits
14:55:25funmanpamaury: i'll just change it
14:56:54pixelmaBlue_Dude: what about them?
14:58:17Blue_Dudepixelma: They're a mess, unwieldy and not integrated. Shouldn't we have some sort of overarching design ethic that would straighten this out?
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14:59:17CIA-5New commit by funman (r26191): disk/file: Do not use & on arrays ...
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15:05:18pamauryfunman: the usb init code is not called with the current config in svn ? I can safely commit code that panic on plug ?
15:05:52funmanusb_enable() does nothing if USE_ROCKBOX_USB is not defined
15:06:48pixelmaBlue_Dude: the action system are an attempt on that. I guess some things got lost with more and more targets and some quick fixes here and there when there were conflicts/ things not working. I just don't see how or what can work better with very different button layouts on different targets and different mechanical and electrical restrictions. What do you propose more precisely?
15:09:18Blue_Dudepixelma: I'm no designer. I don't have a specific proposal. I'm really not a hardware guy. What I would like is a design philosophy or set of guidelines on how keys ought to work. Some are usually obvious (e.g. basic playback controls), but most assignments are ad hoc. I propose a rethink on the interface.
15:09:40JdGordongood luck :p
15:09:47Blue_DudeWell, there you go.
15:09:51JdGordonjust like the menu restructuring/rethink
15:10:44Blue_DudeMenus are truly arbitrary. But you have to deal with physical buttons.
15:11:02Blue_DudeBut I get the point.
15:11:46Blue_Dudei.e. It's a goatrope that no committe is likely to fix.
15:11:56JdGordonpretty much
15:12:13JdGordonit will generate much more talk than anything else
15:12:39pixelmalook at the different button layouts on the targets in the manual drawings and you'll find that a solution that works on target X might not be the best solution on target Y
15:13:22pixelmanot to mention that there are some restrictions re. combos on some targets too
15:13:33JdGordonBlue_Dude: hows the mixer going?
15:13:44*Blue_Dude cries.
15:14:28Blue_DudeI'm glad there's a freeze now. That means I don't have to try to beat that deadline. It'll be a while.
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15:15:11Blue_DudeI'm not a voice user, and so much of "the mixer" deals with how voice is intended to be used.
15:16:02Blue_DudeFor instance, voice is intentionally cut off when playback starts. It doesn't have to be that way, but it seems to be a feature, not a bug. Is that so? Dunno.
15:17:11Blue_DudePlayback also tends to steal the talk buffer. Which means that if we're going to mix voice, it needs to be stolen back, or just not stolen to begin with. How's that going to affect low mem targets? And on it goes.
15:17:28JdGordonhehe sounds like fun
15:17:48Blue_DudeI thought it would be, but it's not.
15:17:56Blue_DudeIt's more like work.
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15:19:56teruJdGordon: May I ask you questions about your code?
15:20:22JdGordonI mean... here! take my wallet! just leave me be!
15:20:39teruin skin_engine/skin_tokens.c, what is the reason WPS_TOKEN_TRACK_STARTING and WPS_TOKEN_TRACK_ENDING are not in get_id3_token()? or, it is ok to move them to get_id3_token()?
15:21:15JdGordonget_id3_token() should only have tokens which get their values from the id3 sturct
15:21:36JdGordonif those do, then sure you can move them
15:21:42teruthey use id3->elapsed and id3->length.
15:21:43pixelmaBlue_Dude: how does voice work during playback then on swcodec? It at least does if you go back to the menu or browser from the WPS without stopping playback. On hwcodec that's just not possible because you only have one decodre
15:23:22Blue_Dudepixelma: I'd like to know the answer to that myself. On paper anyway, the voice is premixed with the pcm buffer and played that way. But sometimes voice is disabled. I haven't walked through all that yet.
15:24:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:24:52CIA-5New commit by jdgordon (r26192): accept FS #10992 by Rui Araújo to fix FS #10976 - make the <Untagged> string translatable
15:25:13Blue_DudeI might be trying to overthink the problem by "fixing" voice playback. I might be better off leaving that alone and just concentrate on the actual mix. I just can't help thinking that voice playback was made that way because of mixer design, not because anyone wanted it that way.
15:27:38Blue_DudeWhat *should* voice be like? Should it always play, regardless of what's going on with pcm playback? Or should it be conditional?
15:28:12JdGordonteru: right, yeah move them if you want :)
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15:28:27JdGordonBlue_Dude: as long as talk_shutup() works, do it any way you want
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15:29:06teruok, then i will.
15:31:17Blue_DudeSometimes talk_shutup() is called when it doesn't strictly need to be. If voice is intended to be an interface feature for visually impaired users, then voice playback ought to have a high priority. You should'nt shut it up unless you really need to. When do you really need to? A new voice clip coming in, obviously. Certain hardware settings maybe. When else?
15:32:13JdGordonI dont know, but if that works then however voice ends up working can be solved with adding a shutup call when playback starts
15:33:18JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: oy
15:33:21Blue_DudeDo we want to shutup voice when playback starts? Is that a feature or a design compromise?
15:33:54JdGordonmy guess is that the only thing talking when playback starts is the "loading" splash, so shutting that up does make some sense
15:34:06JdGordonbut if that stopped working I cant see it being a big deal
15:34:23Blue_DudeTrue, but the way to do that is to make "loading" silent, not completely disabling voice.
15:34:54JdGordonI would never expect shutup to disable voice, just to stop it talking
15:35:57Blue_DudeThat particular talk_shutup is associated with talk buffer steal. I haven't figured out yet what that's all about. That does have the effect of disabling voice.
15:36:34Blue_DudeI'm going from memory here so I may be wrong. I just remember beating my head on the laptop over thisl.
15:36:43JdGordonI only know about talk_shutup() because the list uses it when switching lines iirc
15:37:52Blue_DudeIMHO, that's not a good enough reason for talk_shutup. If you submit a new voice string for playback, it replaces the old one. You don't have to stop the old one first.
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15:38:19Blue_DudeEven voice_thread uses talk_shutup in that case.
15:38:27JdGordonI didnt say it was a good reason
15:39:06Blue_DudeI wasn't trying to argue the point. I'm just frustrated that I can't get into the head of the original designer.
15:39:21JdGordonok :)
15:39:43JdGordonscrew how it works now.... make it work cleanly then we can argue where to go
15:40:15Blue_DudeIf I knew where I wanted it to go, then I can point it there.
15:40:40Blue_Dude(Mangled sentence structure and all).
15:41:24CIA-5New commit by teru (r26193): skin_tokne.c: move WPS_TOKEN_TRACK_STARTING and WPS_TOKEN_TRACK_ENDING to get_id3_token().
15:44:05Blue_DudeI'm thinking about making voice playback an option that can only be enabled with a reboot, like timestretch or dircache. Perhaps it can stay enabled by default, but we might be better off with the default at OFF.
15:44:43Blue_DudeThat would solve some problems with buffer stealing and other memory usage problems.
15:45:01S_a_i_n_tI think it's better for blind users if it "just works"
15:45:09S_a_i_n_tas in, enabled by default
15:45:10Blue_DudeYeah, I know. :(
15:45:18Blue_DudeI don't have a good answer to that.
15:46:18JdGordonis that really necessary?
15:46:24Blue_DudeThere ought to be a better way of reclaiming memory that's not in use, and never will be. And most users don't use voice. Again, I don't have a good answer.
15:46:55JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: why does your (broekn of) theme use a volume bar for the >0 section? you know that isnt expected to work right?
15:47:16S_a_i_n_tit doesn't
15:47:21S_a_i_n_tits a static bitmap
15:47:40S_a_i_n_toh, what...wait.
15:49:10JdGordonit is a static bmp but you used a bar to put it there
15:49:10JdGordoninstead of setting up a %xl line
15:49:10JdGordonlazy bugger!
15:49:10S_a_i_n_tI thought that 0dB+ was supposed to be able to be a progressbar also?
15:49:10DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
15:49:10JdGordonnot *yet* anyway
15:49:10***Alert Mode level 1
15:49:10JdGordonthe blue part did once work correctly?
15:49:10S_a_i_n_taha...well, it's crap it can't...I managed to get that working one of the very first times I tested it.
15:49:45S_a_i_n_tI had a static image for mute and 0dB, and a bar for +/- 0dB
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15:51:00JdGordonoh, hmm
15:51:05S_a_i_n_tIt was pretty much the exact code in "broken of" that I used in the test_wps
15:52:20S_a_i_n_tit's only 12px displaying 6dB...but it'd still be nice if it scrolled too ;)
15:52:20JdGordonyeah, this cant work.... the scales are out
15:52:56S_a_i_n_thaving two progressbars in the same line seems to mess up the <0 section also.
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15:53:14S_a_i_n_ttjhe "blue" section in "broken OF" doesn't seem to scroll as far as it should.
15:53:16JdGordonyou are going from mute->0 but the code is going from mute->12dB (or whatever)
15:54:21JdGordonyou may as well just colour the line so it is approximate
15:54:32S_a_i_n_thehehe...I did that.
15:54:39S_a_i_n_tTheSeven has that version lol
15:54:42JdGordonand use a real image for 0db if that is what you care about
15:54:49JdGordonor actually...
15:55:15JdGordonadd enough transparent pixels onto the end so it goes the full width
15:56:05JdGordonthat might even work!
15:56:19S_a_i_n_tit was just line level that TheSeven cared about, but I like the fact that the progressbar style volume goes from mute to max_vol.
15:56:34S_a_i_n_tSo I tried to encorporate both, worky :P
15:57:04TheSevenyeah, i wanted to have the clipping limits visible in the volume bar
15:57:26JdGordonyou shouldnt be using a theme whihc is a OF replica anyway!
15:57:49TheSeven(at the start of the yellow area, 16 Ohm headphones might start to clip, and on the start of the red area, high-impedance loads might start clipping)
15:58:01S_a_i_n_tI got it *close* counting pixels, just colouring the bar...but exact is always cool.
15:59:11***Alert Mode OFF
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15:59:51JdGordontransparent is 255,255,0 no?
16:00:09S_a_i_n_t255 0 255 I think
16:01:51S_a_i_n_tOh...I think I get it, are you talking about overlaying one bar on top of the other?
16:02:45S_a_i_n_tso one keeps going for the >0 section after the <0 section stops. Hmmmm.
16:03:18JdGordonI think i got the widths wrong...
16:03:43 Quit mt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:03:46JdGordonwhat I'm tihnking is an image with |blluueuuuueeeeee|transparent| where the transparent bit would be under the red parts
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16:03:53S_a_i_n_tyeah, I was just thinking it would be hard to figure the width of the bars. It'd still be pretty approximate that way.
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16:04:45JdGordonyeah that works :)
16:05:12JdGordonit wont matter... as long as your 0 lines up with the end of the blue it will be good
16:05:18JdGordonumm.. I think
16:05:28JdGordonno.. wait
16:05:30funmankugel: new patch on fs#11297 (cpufreq)
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16:05:59JdGordonyeah, ok screw that :p
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16:08:04kugelfunman: I guess you want me to calculate the table?
16:08:24S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: That was about as far as I got with that method ;P
16:08:35funmankugel: ah right you have no clips?
16:08:46kugelonly aclipv1
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16:08:52funmani'll do it and update teh patch
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16:08:56S_a_i_n_tI attempted that a /lot/ as I knew there was a way to do it (*was* being the operative word though...)
16:09:06kugelfunman: thanks
16:09:16S_a_i_n_tIt must have worked on a fluke the first time I tried it, or just looked like it worked.
16:09:16kugelpixelma: ping
16:09:34S_a_i_n_tNah...I'm pretty sure it *did* actually work the way I expected it to.
16:09:41JdGordonS_a_i_n_t: yeah, the way to do it would be adding params to say the min/max to fit in, bu that aint gonna happen
16:11:32S_a_i_n_tAhhh, that's right. I wanted to ask why it is that "cross fade" seems to affect track skipping so much?
16:11:59S_a_i_n_tIf I skip ~10 tracks in a row or so with it on, it locks up for ~20seconds or so refilling the buffer I assume
16:12:17S_a_i_n_twhen it's off I can skip tracks until the cows come home without it locking up.
16:12:32kugelthat sounds like a bug
16:12:46kugelBlue_Dude worked on it at last
16:13:29S_a_i_n_tAFAIK it's always been this way. I was kinda surprised when I noticed it didn't lock up that way with crossfade off.
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16:15:09S_a_i_n_tproblem is, I like crossfade, and my tastes in music are picky so I skip tracks often. Usually the text on the WPS freezes and the DAP sits doing nothing for ~20 seconds or so if I skip too many tracks in a row.
16:15:13CIA-5New commit by jdgordon (r26194): fix FS #10993 - "No Settings" doesnt get voiced because it uses str() instead of ID2P() macro
16:15:20CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:15:20*kugel prepares submitting fs#10387, speak up now or never
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16:25:30funmankugel: done
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16:28:43pamaurykugel: depends whether you think it's ready for release or not. If it's broken, please don't commit. I didn't review it so I can't tell :)
16:29:06kugelI wouldn't consider committing if I knew it was broken
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16:30:44TorneAre we frozen now?
16:31:07kugelnot yet
16:31:15Tornei was gonna put the ipod 3g's contrast back how it was ages ago
16:31:28Tornesince the bugreport that got it changed in the first place just said the screen was very hard to read
16:31:32Tornenot impossibl e:)
16:31:40Tornewhereas it does now seem to be impossible for jhMikeS :)
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16:35:38pamaurykugel: just a check :)
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16:37:31chrisbis the ipod touch a potential target platform for rockbox?
16:38:03chrisbit seems to be too much of a general purpose platform
16:38:33Torneanything someone feels like porting to is a potential target platform
16:38:52*chrisb prefers the special purpose digital music player
16:38:52Tornemost people are generally of the opinion that porting rockbox as a firmware to that kind of device is silly
16:39:00kugelok, I'll go home before committing, but that's your last chance :)
16:39:02Tornebut it might be that it's a low-hanging fruit once the recent nanos are done ;)
16:39:21Tornei may accidentally end up porting rockbox to the n900 at some point
16:39:47chrisbdo people run rockbox as virtual machines on general purpose systems?
16:40:26Tornesome people run the simulator on desktop PCs
16:40:46TorneI'm not aware of an emulator which can emulate a platform we support to a sufficient degree for rockbox to be usable
16:40:57Tornewe don't support any of the targets that qemu does, for example :)
16:42:21amiconnVoice shutup on playback start is intentional on swcodec. On hwcodec it's a hw limitation as well
16:42:22Tornevm/emulator developers are generally interested in simulating open platforms, not undocumented consumer devices
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16:43:49pamauryI guess emulating a whole dap is a nightmare. These devices includes lots of specific stuff, for clocks and power management, specific adc/dac hardware, ...
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16:44:43Torneindeed. there's emulators that emulate the same processors as some of them, or evne the same system-on-chips, but they may not emulate the same external peripherals
16:44:48*chrisb nods
16:45:45chrisbnotes to developers: my 7 and 9 year old boys love rockbox on the sansa e200
16:45:52pamauryThis also happen for more open platforms. Most PC emulators emulate only really simple hardware or use custom drivers
16:46:20chrisbthey were able to figure out...*most everything*...without any manuals or instruction from anyone
16:46:36chrisbthey have no experience with iPod or any other PMP
16:47:01chrisbthey work the music, FM radio, and love the games
16:48:25JdGordonmostly doom right?
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16:54:34CIA-5New commit by pamaury (r26195): usb-as3525v2: ...
16:58:34chrisbJdGordon: i'll check...
17:01:09chrisbat least those two
17:01:12chrisbthat i know of
17:02:00chrisbJdGordon: not enough memory for doom on me sansa
17:02:28chrisbJdGordon: or something else, because it fails to load
17:03:18*JdGordon was making a joke about doom
17:05:49markunpamaury: I see a lot of USB commits for the as3525v2 :) Is it getting close to working, or is this still the very start of the driver?
17:06:44 Quit teru (Quit: Quit)
17:07:46*JdGordon has an awesome usb animation screen working :)
17:08:37pamauryIt is the very start. Init seem to work, I get usb interrupts, now I need to see what I get. There are lots of things I don't know about this usb controller yet :)
17:09:30 Join Farthen_ [0] (
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17:13:19*JdGordon wants to change the usb screen button timeout to HZ/10... any problems?
17:14:29pamaurywhat is the usb screen button timeout ?
17:15:35JdGordonI found FS #11254 which adds an animation, but i made it so the usb logo "fills" over time
17:15:44JdGordonhz/2 makes it look crap though
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17:21:12CIA-5New commit by jdgordon (r26196): redo r25569 so the screen is only cleared once instead of every update (which is ~2Hz
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17:24:02JdGordonI just noticed that the scrollbar bmp draw function taks a struct bm instead of a struct bm*.... is there any real benetifs to fixing that?
17:24:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:27:19CIA-5New commit by jdgordon (r26197): pass pointers around instead of coping whole structs
17:30:11S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: would it be possible to do a bitmap strip animation for the USB screen?
17:30:22S_a_i_n_ty'know how I likes to animate things ;)
17:30:49JdGordonthats pretty much what I've done... turned the static image into a bmp strip
17:31:30S_a_i_n_tI'd like to use the image I have now, but have it kinda slide on screen from right to left.
17:31:55pixelmaJdGordon: could r25569 be the cause why the statusbar didn't appear at all in the early USB screen on my Ondio?
17:32:14JdGordondepends when you noticed
17:32:59pixelmait is noticable on my Ondio and the flashed version is currently 25694
17:33:10JdGordonthen yes, probably
17:33:28pixelmaI need to update I know and that's a nice reason
17:33:38*JdGordon gives mc2739 a slap on the wrists for that change :p
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17:36:55S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: from what I gather from the code...11254 just displays the usblogo like a progressbar? that'll mean it runs from left to right no?
17:37:17JdGordonI could make it really fancy and unfill on the way down
17:37:38pixelmaif you want to I can also check if it was the real cause ;) maybe it's more important to see if it's fixed now though
17:37:52S_a_i_n_tI'd like it to fill from right to left...I have to be different don't I? :P
17:38:39S_a_i_n_tI'd rather it started filling from the edge of the screen, rather than some arbitrary point in the middle of the screen.
17:39:20S_a_i_n_tstill, it's a cool effect though. Bitmap strips would be awesome, then I could have an actual animation.
17:39:26 Part Zagor
17:39:43S_a_i_n_tI'm not entirely sure the term "animation" goes with that patch.
17:39:52pixelmacan't imagine that such an animation of the USB logo would look any good
17:39:58kugelpixelma: I'm going to commit the pla rework patch now is that ok with you?
17:40:29S_a_i_n_tpixelma: I'd like it if it went from right to left, stopped at the end, then went from right to left again.
17:40:36S_a_i_n_tthat would look slightly better.
17:41:20pixelmaour USB logo? No, nd I don't see the point in animating this, feels like a waste
17:41:32JdGordonits so you dont think it has crashed
17:41:33JdGordonand its fun
17:42:20pixelmawell if the disk access icon also works I don't think it has crashed (never did)
17:42:24S_a_i_n_tI'd like a "disk access-like" animation for the usb the animates during transfer.
17:42:28S_a_i_n_tthat'd be cool.
17:42:47kugelwe do need more animations for sure ;)
17:43:06S_a_i_n_tnot a lot of devs say that... ;)
17:43:18kugelpixelma: ?
17:43:37pixelmakugel: I wanted to test at least on my c200 as well and have a patched build installed... if you could wait for two hours or so more?
17:43:58 Part Szpila
17:44:00pixelmaas the c200 also has problems with metronome on SVN
17:44:01kugelI can wait an hour, then I need to go. I wanted to get it in before the freeze
17:44:24kugelor 1 and a half
17:44:38S_a_i_n_twhen is the freeze? (roughly)
17:44:44kugelfew hours
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17:45:03S_a_i_n_toh, wow...didn't know it was coming that soon.
17:45:13pixelmawhen does the freeze start? I'm a bit out of the mail loop as using my provider's web interface as I have to do now is a real ... you know what
17:45:13kugelnot on the -dev ml?
17:45:38S_a_i_n_thaven't checked my email in 2 days or so ...been slack :P
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17:53:09kugelpixelma: uploaded the final patch, although it should be the very same as the previous one
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17:56:50pixelmalooks like I'm able to go home soonish so can test
17:58:02pixelmaor maybe I'll take some minutes now, got the c200 with me
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18:11:47kugelpixelma: I can make you a build if needed (sorry if I'm too late now)
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18:21:01CIA-5New commit by alle (r26198): Another go at FS #11295 −− Use nice 'times' glyphs for describing dimensions. This time properly implemented.
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18:35:29chrisbare there any tricks to recording on the sansa e200?
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18:35:47CIA-5New commit by alle (r26199): Another strike against ugly apostrophes in the manual
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18:39:20S_a_i_n_tchrisb: As in...? Is there something the manual doesn't answer?
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18:45:07pixelmasomeone with a c200 around (or able to check in a sim quickly) if the brickmania graphics are broken for him too?
18:46:59S_a_i_n_tor her....geeeeez!
18:48:53AlexPpixelma, S_a_i_n_t etc. - I was planning on sending a freeze mail in a few hours in nobody objects - this evening EU time
18:49:18chrisbS_a_i_n_t: right, like, point the microphone directly at the source, put the mic 2 inches in front of the source, set the gain to around xxx to avoid distortion, etc.
18:49:38pixelmaI also don't know why but I get a data abort at 000011CC (0) on my c200 with codebuster every other time I try
18:50:19chrisbthe volume of the recording doesn't seem to correspond to the bars on the peak meter
18:50:44S_a_i_n_tchrisb: I believe that falls into the category of trial and error, and depends entirely on your environment, and what you're trying to record.
18:50:44chrisbthe recording is very quiet
18:50:45kugelpixelma: seems fine in the sim
18:50:56pixelmakugel: can you wait for another 20 minutes? I'd prefer going home and try there
18:51:22kugelbut hurry please, I really need to go in 20min
18:51:32chrisbS_a_i_n_t: agreed, i was asking for tricks. thanks
18:51:40pixelmaok, I'll try here then
18:53:38saratogahas anyone else noticed weird background noise on the clipv2 lately?
18:54:14FlynDicebesides the abi folks?
18:54:16pixelmakugel: jackpot seems a bit silly with quitting by long play but I believe you couldn't quit on the c200 at all before (not sure though)
18:55:05ThomasAHsaratoga: I did on the clip+ today
18:55:19*S_a_i_n_t finds the weird mix of button combos to quit plugins annoying at best sometimes...
18:55:37saratogai get a background humming kind of sound, but haven't had time to dig into when it started
18:55:38ThomasAHsaratoga: though I have to check if the track contains this noise
18:55:56ThomasAH(some old Chris de Burgh CD)
18:55:57saratogai got it even on silent passages
18:56:25ThomasAHsaratoga: otherwise silent song, but maybe the source CD was not properly readable or such thing
18:57:06FlynDiceis there a way to produce a silent .mp3/ogg/etc to check this out? Or is this already available somewhere?
18:58:46 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:59:30ThomasAHhmm, the noise I heared in the bus this morning might be synthesizer-generated ocean :)
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19:01:18saratogaFlynDice: for me its independent of volume, so just lowering the volume and listening via IEMs or an amplified speaker should be enough
19:01:52FlynDiceok, I'll try that
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19:03:27ThomasAHok, it definitively was intended to sound like an ocean in the background, so no bug report from my side
19:03:28CIA-5New commit by funman (r26200): Clipv2: charging curve + voltage limits
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19:06:46pixelmakugel: all else seems to look fine on the c200. Does codebuster use PLA? If so someone with an SVN build should check if he or she also gets a data abort (running it at least two, three times)
19:08:59pixelmametronome is controllable now :)
19:11:03kugelok, no need to hurry, my arrangement is cancelled
19:12:19FlynDicesaratoga: I can barely hear the "whirring" sound described by someone on abi on disk access but besides that I don't hear anything else unusual. Airplanes & age do not make my ears the best though....
19:13:57FlynDiceclip+ ^^
19:18:06kugelpixelma: yes it does
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19:19:07kugelpixelma: codebuster works on my fuze and in the c200 sim
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19:24:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:26:25pixelmaI have a feeling that it has to do with screen size (and maybe something that'll only happen on target) but that's really a shot in the dark and not reproducible every time
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19:27:29AlexPI'm just about to try on my c200
19:27:35AlexPDid you get it with svn?
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19:29:35Blue_Dudeamiconn: Thanks for the note on voice shutup. I'll let it be.
19:31:36Blue_DudeS_a_i_n_t: The problem you're having with fast skipping during crossfades is a bug, but I don't think it's a new bug. It's been a while since I've looked at that code but I'll see if I can find a way to have the codec quit trying to fill the buffer if the current track is being skipped over. Not sure how that will work.
19:32:48S_a_i_n_tSweet, I didn't think it was new...It only very rarely that crossfade is ever off on my DAPs (I've been using the same/similar config file for AGES now...)
19:33:11S_a_i_n_tI was quite surprised when I found out how much of a difference turning crossfade off makes.
19:33:57Blue_DudeI did a major cleanup of the crossfade code last fall but other than forcing an immediate crossfade upon a manual track skip, I didn't intentionally change functionality.
19:34:22AlexPpixelma: I just played codebusters SVN ten or so times with no problems - when did you get the abort?
19:34:26Blue_DudeWell, I added another crossfade option, too.
19:34:32S_a_i_n_thow long ago is "last fall" (in monts" for you?
19:34:47Blue_DudeUm, last November? Something like that.
19:34:52S_a_i_n_t*months even)
19:34:57chrisbif i want to run my nice bose radio speakers with hardware running rockbox, what's the best hardware choice?
19:35:03Blue_Dude6-7 months anyway.
19:35:06S_a_i_n_tAhhh...well, you didn't break it then ;)
19:35:23S_a_i_n_tCrossfade has been in my config a /lot/ longer than that ;)
19:35:38Blue_Dudechrisb: there are no nice Bose speakers. :-D
19:35:50*Blue_Dude hides from the incoming flak.
19:35:52*S_a_i_n_t slaps Blue_Dude
19:35:58Blue_Dudeor FLAC even. :)
19:35:59AlexPAbout being off-topic?
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19:36:43kugelfunman: the cpu freq patch seems very stable
19:36:50funmansaratoga: there is a noise with 1/3s or 1/2s frequency on my clipv2
19:36:56kugelI'm letting the fuze play since nearly 3 hours now
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19:37:29funmanyep, but i'm a bit afraid marc2003 said it froze
19:38:40CIA-5New commit by alle (r26201): Get rid of unnecessary 'table' environment and the never used parameters for button maps (FS #11088)
19:39:12funmanbtw i charged clipv2 with 100mA but i think 150mA is OK : the OF doesn't charger higher than 150
19:39:28kugelfunman: you can hear 0.5 (or 2?) Hz?
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19:40:40funmani mean it goes loud like 2 or 3 times per second
19:40:54funmanlike a metronome
19:41:02kugelfunman: his crash might be a random one though, we should wait for more crash reports
19:41:24funmanyou're right
19:41:31CIA-5New commit by kugel (r26202): S#10387 - Rework pluginlib actions ...
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19:43:53kugelfunman: I also played for like 1 min in the cpu freq debug menu toggling the freq without problems
19:44:02chrisbBlue_Dude: that's fine. let's say they were antec.
19:44:14*kugel really likes the fuzev2's scrollwheel now
19:44:26chrisbwhat's the best hardware choice? or am i missing some setting in rockbox or the sansa native software for the lineout?
19:45:11Blue_Dudechrisb: I was just pulling your chain. Sorry. I don't have a really good answer for you. I haven't tried to integrate a Rockboxed player into my HTS.
19:45:36chrisbBlue_Dude: HTS, home theater system?
19:45:41Blue_DudeDo we even support docks?
19:45:59Blue_Dudechrisb: yes. or any system with outboard speakers.
19:46:02chrisbBlue_Dude: it would depend on the usb maybe
19:46:07AlexPpixelma: Yep, with the patch I immediately get a data abort
19:46:31Luca_Skugel: seconded
19:46:39Luca_Sthe wheel sounds very natural
19:47:20kugelI find it feels very natural too
19:47:55funman+1 :)
19:48:08funmando you guys use FM ?
19:48:25Luca_Snot much, definitely not in the last few days
19:48:29kugelfunman: every day
19:48:32Blue_Dudechrisb: There are some Rockbox targets with line out jacks. USB isn't required.
19:48:43funmani listen to it in the bed but i prefer to use the Clips
19:48:52funmankugel: no problems with the fuzev2 ?
19:49:18Luca_Stoday I experienced audio glitches in pictureflow, is fast album scrolling supposed to interfere with audio playback?
19:49:35Luca_Sah nevermind, I have an outdated set_cpu_frequency patch
19:49:35chrisbBlue_Dude: ah, great...i'll go look
19:49:42Luca_SI'll report back after updating
19:50:23Blue_Dudechrisb: There's even support for S/PDIF output. I can't remember which targets have one though.
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19:53:19kugelhehe, I had the pf folder from my fuzev1 copied to the v2, the covers look very strange
19:53:29FlynDicefunman: clip + cpu freq patches v 4 & 5 still crash for me :/ v5 just crashed for me after 17 mins playing 192 vbr mp3. 117 vbr ogg seems to last longer but still crashes & perhaps just coincidence.
19:53:39funmanhmm ok
19:53:44funmanyou had a panic message?
19:54:08FlynDiceno message, dark screen and 10 sec reset
19:54:40funmanthe OF waits a bit after modifying each register, we could try that
19:55:03FlynDiceI thought you did already try that
19:55:08kugelLuca_S: I get them too
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19:55:13AlexPkugel: I can confirm that r26202 causes a data abort on c200 in codebusters
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19:55:42funmanFlynDice: nope it loops over dividers to keep pclk in a certain range, but i assume modifications are immediate
19:55:53kugelAlexP: r26201 works?
19:56:02AlexP26200 works
19:56:09AlexPI didn't try the one inbetween :)
19:56:26AlexPseeing as it was a manual commit :)
19:56:31kugelcan I get the abort address?
19:56:41AlexP000011CC (0)
19:57:56*kugel can't really believe the patch caused it but you never know
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19:58:26kugelargh, I think I see the problem. however I don't know why my fuze is forgiving it
19:58:29AlexPI tried with previous SVN ten times with no problems, with 26202 I got it three times in a row (it hasn't yet worked)
19:58:30 Quit petur (Client Quit)
19:58:46*kugel blames hardcoded numbers
19:58:51AlexPheh :)
19:59:00 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
19:59:07kugelAlexP: try this one please
19:59:16AlexPsure, one mo
20:00:46kugeleveryone was copy'n'pasting the 2 from other plugins instead of doing it right :(
20:01:09Luca_Syou mean copy/paste isn't the preferred way of developing software? o_O
20:02:40funmanit's not possible anymore to select a backdrop ?
20:04:06 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
20:04:09FlynDicefunman: re waiting after modifying registers, are you looking at something different than the delays taken out in r25753?
20:05:24funmannope, that's it
20:06:09*FlynDice crosses fingers and hopes for correct combination of voodoo......
20:06:17 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
20:08:09AlexPkugel: Seems good
20:08:41pixelmaI wasn't sure if it happened with SVN for me
20:08:44funmanfuzev1 still freezes sometimes on initializing database
20:08:56kugellooking at the commit diff I fixed 12 out of 16 with the very same diff, but I forget this one :(
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20:09:43CIA-5New commit by kugel (r26203): Fix a data abort in codebuster.
20:09:54AlexPcheers :)
20:10:35kugeltook me almost a year to get that in :(
20:10:50pixelmaI don't really like the change in the btnmap environment deleting the caption and label parameters. Ok, it wasn't used so far but I think it would have been easier to leave it in, in case someone wants to start using it. Now that would be harder
20:10:56AlexPkugel: better late than never :)
20:11:09pixelmanot a very strong opinion, my first reaction
20:11:27Blue_DudeAnybody know of a quick way to pipe stdout to nothing? Would "make >" work?
20:11:38kugelmake > /dev/null
20:11:46Blue_DudeI want to suppress stdout and leave only strerr.
20:11:52kugelthat'll do it
20:11:52Blue_Dude* stderr
20:12:06Blue_Dudedev null?
20:12:27kugel'>' is stdout, '1>' is stderr (IIRC), '2>' is both
20:12:44Blue_DudeWouldn't that create a /dev/null file?
20:13:00kugelno, /dev/null is a special file, it should exist in cygwin too
20:13:09Blue_Dudeok, thanks.
20:13:25Blue_DudeMarvelous. Didn't know that.
20:13:36Blue_Dudemake 1> would also work?
20:14:23funman1> is stdout and 2> stderr
20:14:30 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
20:14:48Blue_Dudelearning all kinds of stuff...
20:15:01 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*)
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20:16:14kugelfunman: ah right, &> is both
20:20:00*kugel wonders who's going to update the lot of manuals
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20:20:52AlexPIs there something on flyspray saying what needs updating?
20:21:01kugelnot yet
20:21:28*pixelma volunteers fml, he probably would have broken any prepared manual patch for this with his change.. ;/
20:21:34kugelmaybe I just revive my small perl script which can generate the button maps for the manual from a keymap file
20:22:11kugelmaybe it's harder than that though
20:22:31kugelAlexP: all manuals need updating for the plugins affected by commit
20:22:51AlexPkugel: Right, but is there a list of buttons that need changing or something?
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20:23:16AlexPI don't mind doing the manual bit, but I don't want to have to wade through the entire diff to do so
20:23:24kugelno, there's only pluginlib_actions.c but it should be fairly obvious
20:23:39AlexPShouldn't be too hard to extract a list then :)
20:24:07pixelmaI don't thing the exact change for this or that plugin is fairly obvious.
20:24:11pixelmathink too
20:24:28kugelI think the pla buttons are hardcoded in the manual right now; it might be useful to do something like \ActionPlaXXX when we're at it
20:25:16pixelmae.g. in bubbles there is a different "pause" button now too, or some changes in metronome
20:25:16kugelwell, the new buttons are fairly obvious, but not which ones are used in the plugins or which are replaced by what
20:26:07kugelI can do it, but I'm lazy and a bit busy with gsoc
20:26:24kugelor, rather "a bit lazy and busy with gsoc" :)
20:26:53AlexPat the very least, stick that it needs doing on flyspray
20:27:05AlexPthen I'll try and get round to it
20:27:08kugelI could make a list which pla actions are used in which plugins if that helps
20:27:27kugelthen you'd just need to find the corresponding buttons for each target in pluginlib_actions.c
20:27:39AlexPSure, that'd help :)
20:28:40AlexPcheers :)
20:29:50 Join stripwax_ [0] (
20:30:21 Quit stripwax_ (Client Quit)
20:31:25 Quit stripwax (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20:33:15AlexPSo, anyone got anything the desperately need to do before we freeze?
20:33:42Tornei need to decide whether to change the ipod 3g contrast. :)
20:33:43Blue_DudeAlexP: bug hunt?
20:33:46*kugel checks his git branch output
20:34:02CIA-5New commit by funman (r26204): Clipv2 manual: correct playertype
20:34:06CIA-5New commit by funman (r26205): fuzev2: make manual build ...
20:34:17AlexPBlue_Dude: hmmm?
20:34:18kugelI'm fine :)
20:34:58Blue_DudeAlexP: gratuitous "Aliens" reference.
20:35:04gevaertsDo all sorts of sims build properly?
20:35:13AlexPBlue_Dude: aha - sorry, I missed that :)
20:35:26Blue_DudeAlexP: Meaning a search and destroy of program bugs.
20:35:26*chrisb just looked at a Geiger tribute book yesterday at Blick's
20:36:41funmanlast patch crashed on clipv2 :/
20:37:23AlexPkugel: I guess the red should go away before we freeze
20:37:44Torneso in the new pluginlib actions, every target should have all the buttons?
20:37:53Blue_DudeIs logf behaving itself again? We don't try to build for it in the build farm.
20:38:00Tornethe buttons you've changed frotz to are kinda dumb. which is okay, but i'm not sure what to use instead
20:38:31kugelAlexP: thanks for making me notice it
20:39:22kugelTorne: generally I couldn't do worse compared to what was there before; what's dumb in particular?
20:39:39pixelmagevaerts: I saw some pdbox fixes and that was broken in cygwin. Shall I try an H100 sim now?
20:39:45kugelfunman: still playing just fine here...
20:40:25Tornekugel: Well, frotz made perfect sense before because it only uses three buttons, all from one context ;)
20:40:34Tornekugel: you changed PLAY to SELECT_REPEAT
20:40:38Tornebut that's the *most pressed button* :)
20:40:45Torneso having it be a repeat is rather annoying
20:41:04kugellooks like 4 buttons to me
20:41:11Tornekugel: quit isn't really a button
20:41:24Torneeven having it is optional, i only included it because people'd expect it :)
20:41:38Tornecan i make "enter line" PLA_DOWN?
20:41:39kugelwhat is it if it's not a button?
20:42:13Tornei mean it's not useful/important
20:42:22kugelyes sure, also PLA_SELECT should be PLA_SELECT_REL if PLA_SELECT_REPEAT is used in the same plugin
20:42:25 Quit Rob2222 (Quit: Rob2222)
20:42:33Tornei mean, down is arbitrary
20:42:34dfktfunman - new clip+ firmware:
20:42:40Tornei only choose it because then the button map is the same on ipod
20:43:35funmandfkt: downloading
20:43:36TorneIt makes sense for PLA_SELECT to be "press enter", but "bring up keyboard" is also pretty important :)
20:44:10funmanwe have no description of the clip+ buttons for blind people
20:44:53funmanit can be adapted from clipv1/v2 except for side buttons
20:45:32funmanClip+ OF: "known issue : FM signal is weakened during FM recording"
20:46:06kugelTorne: really, PLA_DOWN sounds good to me
20:46:17topikimpressive update that clip+ of.
20:46:20CIA-5New commit by torne (r26206): Tweak new pluginlib button map for frotz to be more convenient
20:46:38 Part watto
20:50:12funman2nd crash on clipv2: backlight was set to on but i got a black screen
20:50:56saratoganew firmware still has the "mp4_decoder" block
20:52:39CIA-5New commit by funman (r26207): mkamsboot: support Clip+ OF v01.02.15
20:52:48topiki know you mentioned it before but i can't find when. what was interesting about the mp4_decoder block?
20:53:22 Join wodz [0] (
20:53:22funmanalmost everything changed but 4 header blocks out of 6
20:54:23dfktfunman, that was fast :)
20:54:51funmantopik: afaiu Clip+ doesn't support AAC
20:54:56dfktthe archive was very sloppily packed, btw
20:55:10 Nick Ypsy is now known as YPSY (
20:55:15funmandfkt: it can be fast when they add no new features ;)
20:55:32wodzI looked at debug_menu.c and rework is quite easy except parts that are common to two different architectures like memguard for example (SH an Coldfire)
20:55:41funmani had a quick hope that the additional file was debug symbols for their firmware :o
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20:56:43wodzwhat is commit policy in freeze time?
20:56:46*kugel fails to spot where the ipods fail
20:57:11topikit's an mp3, funman
20:57:12funmanwodz: i expected AlexP to tell us :p
20:57:15topikslotradio promotion mp3
20:57:20funmanyep :/
20:58:10AlexPwodz: Bug fixes etc. only for release targets, targets that aren't part of the release are more relaxed
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20:58:38AlexPI do appear to have appointed myself release manager or some such
20:58:45AlexPThat wasn't the intention :)
20:58:50CIA-5New commit by torne (r26208): Increaase default ipod 3g contrast, to a value between the last two. ...
20:59:03wodzbut is code branched or release is made from head at the end of freeze
20:59:20saratogathey didn't improve the vorbis decoder either
20:59:25 Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.)
20:59:36Tornewodz: we freeze for a while, and then branch, and then release after a while, io think :)
20:59:50AlexPwodz: Freeze for a week, then branched, then release from the branch after another week
21:00:13wodzwhat is the rationale of freeze before branching?
21:00:26Tornebecause otherwise all the bugfixes have to be committed twice ;)
21:00:38topiksaratoga: have they ever done something really substantial after an initial firmware?
21:00:46Torne(also known as "because svn is not very good at merging", perhaps)
21:00:51saratogatopik: yeah they seem to
21:01:03saratogavorbis, flac, replaygain, file browsing, etc
21:01:14saratoganow apparently AAC, though its disabled for some reason
21:01:20wodzI see
21:01:26topikhmm, i suppose, but not always that well
21:01:37topikvorbis performs poorly, file browsing is pathetic
21:01:38S_a_i_n_tTorne: Now I've seen you in here...My "freak" Nano1g has been needing hard reset to turn it on at least once per day (usually twice or more) for 3~4 days solid now, using a current build and the 4.0 bootloader. Is there anything I can do to identify what might be different about this Nano in particular?
21:01:44gevaertswodz: some sort of vaguely unsuccessful attempt at making everyong concentrate on fixing bugs
21:01:54TorneS_a_i_n_t: You could compare its OF version
21:02:02TorneS_a_i_n_t: but I really don't know what to do about it
21:02:13S_a_i_n_tthey all run the latest OF
21:02:19saratogavorbis performs poorly because they screwed up the make settings, i sent them the fix but they don't seem too interested, or theres some reason they had to change it
21:02:20wodzgevaerts: :-)
21:02:20TorneS_a_i_n_t: We have the choice of "do what we did before" or "do what we're doing now", basically
21:02:32gevaertswodz: it could work :)
21:02:35TorneS_a_i_n_t: what we did before made a bunch of people's ipods randomly power on whenever they felt like it
21:02:35funmanperhaps it would be possible to patch the OF to add AAC playback to Clip+ .. ah nevermind rockbox plays everything already ;)
21:02:47TorneS_a_i_n_t: the current fix doesn't make anything *worse*, at least ;)
21:02:56TorneS_a_i_n_t: and it really does seem to fix the problem fr lots of players :)
21:03:08S_a_i_n_tI thought as much, it just sems weird to me that I seem to be experiencing it more frequently, when it's all-but stopped (or stopped completely) for others :/
21:03:15topikfunman: if you going to patch the OF more, patch out the database refresh please ;)
21:03:18funmankugel: about the patch, the frequencies range might be good on the Fuze but not on the Clips
21:03:27TorneS_a_i_n_t: you shouldn't've been experiencing it *at all* with the previous fix, if it was working
21:03:38funmanis it possible to derivate the battery capacity from the charging current and the time needed to charge ?
21:03:45TorneS_a_i_n_t: all these changes are basically based on wild speculation and guessing, not any actual undertanding of the problem
21:04:03wodzfunman: only during CC part of charging
21:04:15S_a_i_n_tI did experience it with the "caused the low-battery icon on shutdown" fix...but only like twice, ever.
21:04:21wodzfunman: during CV You don't know the current
21:04:21S_a_i_n_tnow its a daily thing.
21:04:42TorneS_a_i_n_t: Well, that's what it was like for lots of people before we did anything at all
21:04:55funmanmore current would mean faster charge though? (if it's not too much to melt the wires)
21:04:59TorneS_a_i_n_t: mine did it at *least* daily, maybe more, and now doesn't do it at a ll.
21:05:09S_a_i_n_tand fwiw...I also never saw that battery icon on shutdown once.
21:05:23TorneWell, yeah
21:05:26TorneIt *should* :)
21:05:27CIA-5New commit by kugel (r26209): Fix reds: add m3 keypad, fix typo in the ipods part, correct button for h10, don't error out for touchscreens (onda vx777 has almost no tactical ...
21:05:37TorneIf it doesn't then I expect the OF code just doesn't actually reenable the LCD
21:05:41S_a_i_n_twell, I'd much rather it was fixed for everyone else, and not for me then fixed for me, and not for everyone else ;)
21:05:43TorneI expect it's showing it in its framebuffer :)
21:05:57TorneBut again, we really don;t know what the code we were causing to run actually *did*
21:06:01wodzfunman: yes and no - it will faster reach CV regime of charging but this may have side effect of prolonging CV time
21:06:19TorneS_a_i_n_t: there's no guarantee it was doing the same thing on every ipod
21:06:29funman5 hours on clipv2 seems long, I will compare with 150mA instead of 100mA
21:06:44 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services)
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21:06:53wodzfunman: 150 should be ok
21:07:02 Join lpereira [0] (
21:07:25Tornei guess i need to build a new ipod 3g bootloader now
21:07:47wodzfunman: have You mesured mean current drain during normal operation? This will give You quite good capacity estimation
21:07:49Tornehm, but i don't really want to have to take all the latest changes, i guess i'll just ake that oneline change on the tag :)
21:08:03kugelfunman: possibly. is 24Mhz really favorable over 40MHz anyway? didn't you find slower decoding due to lower pclk @24MHz?
21:08:14funmanwodz: nope i have an analog multimeter but no USB cables to tweak anymore
21:08:25S_a_i_n_tanother Nano1g I have has only done it like twice ever, and the other 1g has never done it at all. I also have a 2g Nano that seems more prone to needing hard-reset to startup...but they're completely different IIUC
21:08:32 Quit Blue_Dude (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539])
21:08:50 Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
21:08:55wodzfunman: I was thinking of conecting external DC power supply in place of battery
21:09:00TorneS_a_i_n_t: well, i expect they have a similar *mechanism* somewhere
21:09:01funmankugel: i just chose a slow value for battery life
21:09:11funmanwe could go down to 15
21:09:32funmanwodz: i have not even opened those clips ;)
21:09:32TorneS_a_i_n_t: so it wouldn't surprise me if they did the same thing
21:09:50kugelbut it might not pay-off if the peripherals are now too slow to manage decoding without boost
21:09:57funmanbut yeah it would be needed, i was thinking of measuring current on the USB cable, not on the battery
21:10:04wodzfunman: maybe it is time to do that :-)
21:10:10funmankugel: dunno, it must be measured
21:10:28funmanclip+ crash with undef instr in iram
21:10:41TorneS_a_i_n_t: so yeah, mayb e someone will figure something better out eventually :)
21:11:24 Join Kitr88 [0] (~Kitar_st@
21:11:41kugelfunman: could you try 40MHz on the clip? I think stable 40MHz are better than unstable 24MHz if it allows for freq scaling
21:11:47 Quit Kitar|st (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:12:02funmankugel: just doing that
21:12:41funmanhowever i don't want to make early conclusions this time :) if it works 1 week without crashes then it'll be ok, not before
21:12:51kugelmakes sense
21:15:03Tornewe still need the ipod bootloader tested on 1g, mini 1g, and 4g colour
21:15:12Torneanyone got one of those?
21:15:37pixelmawodz: didn't you say you have a 1st gen Mini?
21:16:12 Quit Kitr88 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
21:17:11AlexPRight then, any last requests?
21:17:12gevaertsTorne: do you know about ?
21:17:27wodzpixelma: Yes I have
21:17:28Tornei've seen it before but i forgot ;)
21:17:35Tornefoodtime, anyway
21:18:47pixelmawodz: maybe you could help Torne testing
21:18:49 Join Tux2 [0] (~Tux2@
21:19:12wodzpixelma: sure
21:19:19wodzbut not before monday
21:19:52wodzok have to go
21:19:56 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving)
21:20:03 Quit CGL (Remote host closed the connection)
21:20:44 Quit Tux2 (Remote host closed the connection)
21:21:11 Join Kitar|st [0] (
21:21:47 Join Tux2 [0] (~Tux2@
21:22:49 Quit phanboy_iv (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:24:01AlexPRight then, freeze time!
21:24:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:24:43Topic"Now if feature freeze for 3.6 | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | Rockbox has been accepted for GSoC 2010! | DevCon2010 will be from June 4th to 6th in Ghent, please update if you plan on atten" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:25:00Topic"Now in feature freeze for 3.6 | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | Rockbox has been accepted for GSoC 2010! | DevCon2010 will be from June 4th to 6th in Ghent, please update if you plan on atten" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:25:06AlexPffs, I can't spell "in"
21:25:24funmanI think you can remove the note about GSoC frm the topic ?
21:25:52AlexPprobably, yes
21:26:58Topic"Now in feature freeze for 3.6 | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | DevCon2010 will be from June 4th to 6th in Ghent," by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:30:29funmanwhat is a 'hand panel' in "On the left hand panel is a two way switch." ; is it the left side ?
21:31:12AlexPfunman: left hand means on the left side, so it is the panel on the left
21:32:26Tornewill i be murdered if i make a tag and then commit changes to it? i guess i should be.
21:32:59gevaertsTorne: you can then rename the tag to a branch :)
21:33:09Tornei guess i'll make a branch instead ;)
21:33:11Torneit's all the same thing
21:33:55funmanAlexP: is it good enough english ?
21:35:12AlexPfunman: I'm not sure what panel is referring to here
21:35:24CIA-5New commit by torne (r26210): Create branch for ipod bootloaders, based on trunk r25693.
21:35:26AlexPIs this a player description?
21:35:35funmanyes for Clip+
21:36:33AlexPFrom the descrption I don't get where the items are :)
21:37:08AlexPIs the power button at the top of the right side, or on the top on the right?
21:37:30funmanon the top at the right
21:37:38funmanand the headphone jack is on the right at the top
21:37:54AlexPI don't understand :)
21:38:12AlexPthe power button is on the right side of the player?
21:38:24AlexPAnd the headphone socr?ket is on the top of the playe
21:38:39AlexPAnd the headphone socket is on the top of the player?
21:39:01funmanAlexP: here are thousand words:
21:39:20pixelmamaybe funman should explain it in French to you
21:39:26AlexPfunman: ta :)
21:39:42AlexPa thousand words indeed :)
21:41:08pixelmaand the headphone socket is on the right side of the player, near the top?
21:41:20pixelmaor whatever
21:41:26funmanpixelma: right, and the slot is on the same side but near the bottom
21:41:37*S_a_i_n_t fails to parse the difference between "on the right at the top" and "on the top at the right" :/
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21:42:03funmani thought 'hand panel' would clear that
21:42:36funmanperhaps i should just mention the top hand panel, there is only one button to be found there
21:42:58pixelmait's not "hand panel" the hand in there belongs to the "left hand"
21:43:06 Join tenfoot [0] (
21:43:07funmanhmm ok
21:43:09S_a_i_n_tsweet, but just call it the "top panel"
21:43:18AlexPfunman: Something like maybe
21:43:20pixelmait's just saying left side in a different way
21:43:24S_a_i_n_terrr...what pixelma said.
21:43:28funmanAlexP: awesome paste number!
21:43:33AlexPyeah :)
21:44:00funman'on the right side' is not too repetitive in the 2nd sentence?
21:44:00bertrikDo you really have to explain where everything is, anyway?
21:44:16funmanbertrik: i think this section is for blind people
21:44:44AlexPfunman: It could do without the second on the right side, yeah
21:44:52AlexPbertrik: It is the blind description
21:45:00AlexPbertrik: So they know what we call each button
21:45:11pixelmaI'd just hand a native speaker one of the targets at DevCon and let him explain... ;) That's what I asked Cassandra to do at DevCon2007 :)
21:45:34funman'headphone socket' and 'headphone jack' are both used, perhaps we should use only one?
21:45:44pixelmaI let *her* explaind though :)
21:45:47CIA-5New commit by torne (r26211): Merge r26208 from trunk to increase default contrast on ipod 3g
21:45:51pixelmaexplain too
21:45:54S_a_i_n_t"jack" seems more commonly me anyway
21:46:06S_a_i_n_tbut may have problems with translation?
21:46:12AlexPfunman: Socket then
21:46:31AlexPI'm assuming that \ButtonPower{} says "Power" as well
21:47:21funmanheadphone socket wins the google fight by a few
21:47:25funmanAlexP: yes i just noticed that too
21:48:14AlexPS_a_i_n_t: Jack can refer to both plug or socket, or both, or a mixture, and can be misleading
21:48:25AlexPsocket and plug is more explicit
21:48:43S_a_i_n_tOr a guy called, yeah, Socket it is.
21:49:00S_a_i_n_tI guess less people names Socket in the world than Jack.
21:50:26TornejhMikeS: i've uploaded a new 3g bootloader (to the same place) which has contrast 50, which hopefully is a useful compromise. can you give it a quick go just to be sure it does actually work? :)
21:52:36funman'headphone mini socket plug' is correct as well ?
21:52:53funmanline-in jack, power jack ..
21:53:23funman20 occurences of 'jack' in rockbox_interface/main.txt
21:53:46CIA-5New commit by funman (r26212): Clip+: add description of buttons for blind users ...
21:55:19AlexPheadphone mini socket plug doesn't make any sense
21:55:27AlexPa plug goes into a socket
21:55:33AlexPsomething can't be both
21:55:45funmanbut 'headphone mini jack plug' is ok?
21:55:50 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@
21:56:07AlexPI suppose, but I prefer just plug
21:56:46funmani'll just change the headphone references since i'm not sure about the rest
21:56:56funman'headphone jack'
21:57:07AlexPto socket?
21:57:23funmanyep, 'headphone socket', isn't it what we just said?
21:57:28AlexPyep :)
21:57:33AlexPJust checking :)
21:57:50funmanindeed, you never know with these people who can't english :)
21:57:56AlexPhehe :)
21:58:47CIA-5New commit by funman (r26213): manual: change all references to 'headphone jack' into more correct 'headphone socket'
21:59:39topikrunning out of complicated things to fix, funman ?
22:00:02funmani just gave up on the fuzev1 issues
22:00:26topikmy fuzev1 seems fairly free of issues. though all i do on it is play audiobooks
22:01:13funmanhm vibe500 is missing from some lang files
22:02:19funmanor from some strings at least
22:02:52 Quit tenfoot (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
22:04:07funman% (for i in *;do grep vibe500 $i|wc -l;done)|sort|uniq -> 0 10 12 14 15 6 8
22:04:34funmanhm and for fuze: 0 10 14 2 4 8 :o
22:05:27 Nick YPSY is now known as Ypsy (
22:09:48pixelmathose numbers don't tell much as there are also default values which could apply here and there
22:10:05CIA-5New commit by funman (r26214): a bit of french translation
22:10:50funmanhow do we add new IDs to all lang files with langtool ?
22:11:37 Quit merbzt1 (Ping timeout: 269 seconds)
22:12:38pixelmawhy would you add new IDs with langtool? Do you already have the translations for all?
22:12:54funmanshouldn't the untranslated ID be added anyway ?
22:13:39pixelmasorry, can you explain what you want to achieve?
22:14:02funmanadd LANG_HOTKEY_WPS to francais.lang, so I can translate it
22:14:30pixelmayou run genlang and it'll add it for you
22:14:41funmanoh there's another tool :/
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22:18:23pixelmalangtool is something to use if you have a change you can easily apply to all languages (e.g. an updated description) IIRC, never used it. genlang has been there way longer. You could also use rasher's tranlate page I think but I don't know much about that either
22:21:46TorneStrife89: Would you be able to test the new ipod bootloader from on your ipod 4g color?
22:22:19 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:22:51rasherfunman: no, new ids are only added to english.lang
22:22:56Strife89Torne: Certainly, just give me a minute and I'll install it. :)(
22:22:59TorneStrife89: cool
22:23:30CIA-5New commit by funman (r26215): more french translation
22:23:45pamauryI propose for "FS #10913 - File Browser not updated properly upon microSD insert/removal with dircache enabled", anyone has an opinion ? There are several ways to do it, so I'm open to suggestions
22:27:21 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
22:30:48 Quit Jaykay (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539])
22:31:07pamauryI can't commit that patch now, if you have objections, you have until tomorrow morning before I actually commit it :)
22:32:53Strife89Torne: Complete success with all the testing directions. :)
22:33:00Tornecool, thanks
22:33:04Tornejust 1g and mini 1g to go then
22:33:23*Torne prods amiconn gingerly. Did you test the 1g alrady and i just forgot to make a note of it, or have you not had time yet?
22:33:35Strife89Sadly, I have neither nor do I know someone who has one.
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22:36:40TorneThat's ok, i'll keep poking people :)
22:36:46Tornewe're nearly there
22:36:53Torne8/10 done :)
22:41:54 Quit chrisb (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
22:42:47Tornekugel: you have broken test_resize with the pla stuff
22:42:55S_a_i_n_tfinding the iPod 1g tester may need an additional appeal in the forums?
22:42:58Torne/home/torne/big/rockbox/ipod/apps/plugins/test_resize.c:34: error: ‘generic_actions’ undeclared here (not in a function)
22:43:01Torne/home/torne/big/rockbox/ipod/apps/plugins/test_resize.c:34: error: ‘generic_directions’ undeclared here (not in a function)
22:43:37kugeloops, I haven't test compiled it I guess
22:43:51Torneyeha, my default build script does logf+bootchart+testplugins
22:44:49kugel should work
22:45:23Tornei'm about to leave, so can't test now :)
22:45:32 Quit wincent (Changing host)
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22:45:59kugelI'll do it
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22:47:18kugelfunman: still playing :/
22:47:53funmansame here on the clips too
22:49:06CIA-5New commit by kugel (r26216): Fix test_resize
22:51:45bertrikit looks like there is a random target lately that gets 41 build errors
22:53:05gevaertsbertrik: looks like a dependency issue
22:53:07 Quit DataGhost (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:53:43bertrikmaybe triggered by concurrent building (-j option)?
22:53:54gevaertsyes, probably
22:55:40 Join GeekShado_ [0] (
22:58:43 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:02:08 Quit domonoky (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:02:57jhMikeSTorne: okay. it's in the wiki, right?
23:03:17TornejhMikeS: on the forum..
23:04:37 Quit Schmogel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
23:05:00 Quit GeekShado_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:07:14 Quit Xerion (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:07:27jhMikeSTorne: mind getting me there?
23:08:27jhMikeSthank you sir
23:12:22kisakline 194 of /trunk/firmware/target/arm/as3525/usb-drv-as3525v2.h has a typo in the comment (something extra to tack on to the next change to the as2525v2 usb stuff)
23:13:00pamaurywhat ?
23:13:13kisak"/** Tiemout handshake (non-iso TX) */"
23:13:58pamauryah true :) I'll change that on next commit, thx
23:14:44*jhMikeS *thinks* he might see some text doing verbose...o :)
23:15:01 Quit esperegu (Remote host closed the connection)
23:15:16TornejhMikeS: hehe
23:15:27TornejhMikeS: well, i can't change the contrast too far or we risk it being unreadable for other people :)
23:15:40TornejhMikeS: this is just a compromise to get a bootloader released..
23:16:11funmanjust have the contrast switch every second :)
23:16:14gevaertsTorne: can't you just cycle through contrast values continuously? :)
23:17:10 Quit wincent (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:22:40kisakfunman: ping?
23:24:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:25:06kisak"Pressing home (or left) button while booting will boot OF" is a problem on the Clip+? Does this belong in the manual? (in reference to the sansaAMS wiki page)
23:25:39funmanno i think i will remove it when USB works
23:26:15kisakI just got a little chuckle out of OF being a problem
23:27:20kisaknevermind, it's not important
23:31:54 Join likemindead [0] (
23:34:03likemindeadMy iPod 4th Gen/Color isn't being detected or mounted in (X)ubuntu 10.04 −− Help?
23:35:45 Quit pamaury (Quit: Page closed)
23:37:27bluebroth3rlikemindead: you might want to be more specific? What build are you running, have you checked dmesg, have use USB HID mode enabled?
23:38:07 Join chrisb [0] (
23:39:03 Join Forsaken_Boy [0] (~chatzilla@
23:39:44likemindeadLooks like I have 3.4 on the device. I'll upgrade it to the latest and try that first.
23:41:08bluebroth3rfor a release there isn't anything Rockbox related. The releases still boot into the Apple firmware for USB connections.
23:41:38 Join roxasisalive [0] (
23:41:41bluebroth3rhowever, current builds use the Rockbox USB stack. In this case you could try disabling the USB HID feature
23:41:51likemindeadWill do, thanks.
23:42:02roxasisalivehey will there be a port for the samsung yp-s3
23:42:23kisakroxasisalive: you could make it happen
23:42:32roxasisalivegood point
23:42:46roxasisalivethanks, you just gave me some inspiration
23:43:03roxasisalivenow... i just need a samsung yp-s3...
23:43:47roxasisalivei wanna get atari 2600 on sansa e200
23:44:26 Quit roxasisalive (Client Quit)
23:44:28 Quit jgarvey (Quit: Leaving)
23:46:16 Join liar [0] (
23:47:01 Join max242 [0] (
23:48:01 Nick Ypsy is now known as YPSY (
23:48:28max242still having occasional freezes on my fuze v1 when generating pictureflow cache, but it's much better since r26160, thanks funman!
23:49:24max242i just found back my flyspray account, seems i also was active in april 2008
23:49:54max242should i file a bug report for this pictureflow freeze issue?
23:50:19funmanno i think it's related to the existing bug report
23:51:16max242ok, i just added a comment to #FS11267
23:51:54max242maybe i can help testing stuff
23:53:09funmando the buttons still activate the button light when it's crashed?
23:53:22funmanand hold button shut down the lcd backlight ?
23:53:31max242btw, the USB code changes i do see is being worked on, is that for clip and clip+, or does that also apply to the fuze v1 and v2 as well?
23:54:30funmanwhat applies to clipv1 applies to fuzev1 and what applies to clipv2 and clip+ applies also to fuzev2
23:54:57 Quit bmbl (Quit: Bye!)
23:55:02 Quit markun (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:55:12likemindeadHow do I install the Rockbox Utility in Linux? Do I need to compile it? Or is it an executable?
23:55:47funmanyes it's an executable
23:56:11likemindeadThought so. I just need to extract it?
23:56:18max242funman: i'm not sure if the buttons do activate the button lights, i'll check that when i've got another crash, same for the hold button
23:57:57max242at least what i think can be improved, is the feedback to the rockbox user so he/she is aware that database updates are being commited
23:58:43max242what i mean is that the LCD gets dark after say step 6, and stays dark till all changes are commited

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