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#rockbox log for 2010-07-10

00:00:00Luca_Sso now all targets use eabi by default? doesn't that count as a MajorChanges ? :)
00:01:22 Quit webguest71 (Client Quit)
00:02:46funmanit's not so visible so i don't know
00:04:30Luca_Sfunman: is it possible that PLLB is enabled on ams sansas but not used for anything?
00:04:38Luca_SI mean in current rockbox
00:04:50pregloweabi really doesn't matter much for user
00:04:54Luca_SI didn't do the power measurements i planned yet
00:05:16Luca_Sbut IIRC someone else (bertrik?) already tried that and found little-to-none difference
00:06:47Luca_Sso I was thinking that maybe is already enabled, though unused...
00:07:39funmanLuca_S: it should be disabled, check the debug menu (hw info i think)
00:08:41 Join Reyendo [0] (
00:08:49Luca_Sit says 0Mhz - CGU_PLLB = 00001000
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00:11:00 Nick n00b81 is now known as n00b81|away (~taylor@unaffiliated/n00b81)
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00:13:40XqtftqxPSPdemon, my phone now has Ubuntu on it :P
00:13:43Xqtftqxyour HTC can suck it
00:14:03Xqtftqxwrong channel lol
00:15:24 Quit bieber (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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00:16:23funmanLuca_S: you have the as3525 datasheet to check the bits of CGU_PLL* ?
00:19:35*preglow comforts his htc
00:20:28Luca_Sno, I don't, and I don't think I would be able to understaind it at all :) gotta go now, see you tomorrow
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00:41:29*Buschel needs help
00:41:46Buschelcan anyone see the error on this arm asm? ->
00:42:31Buschelthe decoded sound is pretty similar to the non-asm version. but it is distorted somehow
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00:44:08funmanit's not using 'out' ?
00:44:25Buschelthat's an index
00:44:55funmanan unused one, it's only used outside the loop but incremented in the loop
00:52:41bluebroth3rbieber: are you using Qt Creator for editing the project file?
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00:53:43 Part likemindead ("Spoon!")
00:53:51Buschelfunman: the logic was a bit weird, but even using a more straight forward solutuin does not solve the issue...
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00:59:10bieberbluebroth3r: Yes, is that a problem?
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01:37:44AzureSkyis it a known issue that rockbox fuze v1 is slower then OF when moving files to/from the device?
01:40:19AzureSky1.7MB/s for rb, 4.2MB/s for OF.......
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01:57:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:58:48Buschelfunman: me stupid. took me 2 hours to see it... :/
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02:11:43CIA-6New commit by Buschel (r27365): Just another MHz saved on ARM for aac he decoding.
02:13:24CIA-6r27365 build result: All green
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03:57:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:46:12CIA-6New commit by funman (r27366): SDL enhancements: ...
04:48:19CIA-6r27366 build result: 0 errors, 1 warnings (funman committed)
04:50:18CIA-6New commit by funman (r27367): SDL: fix typo ...
04:52:04CIA-6r27367 build result: All green
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05:57:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:38:11*Dhraakellian wonders why rockbox on his FuzeV1 has started freezing occasionally within the last few weeks
06:38:23Dhraakellianplayback, at least
06:39:02Dhraakellianeven got a whitescreen and data abort today at work, but that doesn't usually happen
06:39:28Dhraakellian(and, no, I didn't have time to write down the error)
06:40:15Dhraakellianwonder if it has anything to do with the advent of USB support, since the timeframes seem about the same
06:40:34Dhraakellianwish I had a better idea of what sort of stuff was triggering it
06:40:56Dhraakellianhappens with both ogg vorbis and mp3
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06:51:21AzureSkyi just got my v1 8gb fuze
06:51:34AzureSkyso havent had much test time yet with it.....
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07:07:48 Part AzureSky
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07:28:49TarvisQuick question
07:29:02TarvisIs the RockBox Theme Editor (UI) incapable of drawing images right now?
07:29:19bieberTarvis: No, it should draw them fine
07:29:33TarvisThey show in the UISimulator but not in the editor
07:29:48bieberI think, though, that you have to have a .cfg file open in order for them to be found
07:29:56bieberCan you give me a little more detail on your situation?
07:30:20TarvisAh, let me try that then
07:31:25TarvisOk cool, it works
07:34:41bieberI'm going to be doing some work on getting the UI a little nicer this week, I'll see if I can get it to find image files without needing an open project file
07:35:03bieberRight now it should render pretty much everything, with the exception of touch areas, which I'm about to implement
07:36:43 Quit shai (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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07:43:46TarvisI have one case where an image file is drawn if album art is present
07:43:52TarvisHowever the image isn't drawn
07:44:01TarvisIn the same part of the conditional, a viewport is also toggled on
07:44:13bieberShow me the line in question?
07:45:18 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht2@xbmc/user/horscht)
07:45:24Tarvisthe image G isn't drawn
07:45:37Tarvisand it seems no other images are (save for background) are
07:45:42TarvisThey do in the UISim, however
07:46:17bieberDoes xd(G) work outside of that conditional?
07:46:19TarvisPerhaps I can send you the theme in question?
07:46:50bieberPlease do
07:46:52TarvisNo, it does not
07:47:02bieberOkay, then it's probably an issue with loading the image
07:47:02TarvisAlright, let me put it in an archive
07:47:20 Quit Horschti (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
07:47:29bieberAnd here I was thinking I had rendering down :P
07:47:50TarvisIt should be noted that the accompanying .sbs does it just fine
07:49:28bieberDoes the SBS use that image?
07:49:48 Quit LordTroll (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
07:52:24TarvisSort of
07:52:33TarvisIt also has many other images that tit loads that the .wps doesn't
07:52:36TarvisNot that specific one though
07:52:46TarvisI think it doesn't load the one because it doesn't load any
07:53:37bieberI'll just have to see the theme
07:57:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:06:56TarvisNote that it needs the font pack
08:07:18bieberNo worries, I've got that installed
08:09:00Tarvisand see here for what it should ideally look like
08:09:20TarvisWith art loaded, like the left image (but with a black box instead of art) and center image with no art
08:09:49TarvisLike I said, the theme editor doesn't seem to show any images (except for the backdrop) on the .wps, but it does for the .sbs
08:13:00 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
08:13:08simonrvnbieber: do the fonts render for you properly in the editor?
08:13:22biebersimonrvn: Yes, as far as I can tell
08:13:29bieberTarvis: You're right, no images seem to be loading in that theme
08:14:00simonrvnhm, they don't for me, and the the AA (anti-aliasing) is gone too. maybe that's changed now. lemme make sure.
08:14:54TarvisMaybe the theme editor doesn't know about the fullscreen viewport?
08:14:59bieberTarvis: I'll look into that tomorrow or Sunday, hopefully it'll be a simple fix. Thanks for finding that for me
08:15:11bieberTarvis: You're not rendering those images in the default viewport, are you?
08:15:21TarvisI am, is that bad?
08:15:47bieberI've been told that the default viewport is supposed to be hidden when any other viewport is opened, so my renderer does that, which I'm sure is why your images aren't showing up
08:15:54simonrvnhm. nope. still the same. doesn't display the right characters.
08:16:03TarvisI see
08:16:33TarvisWhile it still seems to work in both the sim and an actual DAP, I have a feeling it isn't supposed to
08:16:41simonrvnbieber: i should ask though. have you implemented alternate font rendering?
08:16:41TarvisSo I think I'll go and fix that
08:16:46bieberI know SVN Rockbox doesn't do that, though, and I don't know if JdGordon1 is going to change that while he's working on RB's renderer. If he doesn't, I'll just have it display in the theme editor regardless
08:17:03simonrvna la %Fl(Font-Name.fnt,3)
08:17:18simonrvnoops, backwards...
08:17:27biebersimonrvn: Yeah, the new format switched the order
08:17:31TarvisActually, I haven tested a recent version/SVN on an actual DAP lately, so maybe it doesn't there either...
08:17:45bieberAlso, do you have your font directory set in the preferences panel?
08:17:49simonrvn%Fl(7,14-Sazanami-Mincho.fnt) (in my file i have it correct =)
08:17:57TarvisBut it's probably a good idea to do it in case he does decide to do it
08:18:10simonrvnbieber: i tried both the bdf and the fnt. wasn't sure which to use...
08:18:46biebersimonrvn: It is the fnt, and that font is showing up garbled for me
08:18:57bieberOdd, that's the first one I've seen do that
08:19:16 Part AzureSky
08:19:17bieberOh crap, does that font have a really large character set?
08:19:20simonrvnah ok. so it isn't just me. i'm suspecting it's because it's unicode.
08:19:36simonrvnyeh, i'm trying to use ones that have a wide ranger.
08:19:44bieberThey're all in unicode
08:19:47 Join AzureSky [0] (
08:19:55simonrvnrange is what i meant, sorry.
08:20:02TarvisAnyway, I have noticed that the default viewport doesn't seem to exist in Status Bars
08:20:05bieberWhen I was doing font rendering, though, I completely forgot to implement support for larger fonts :/
08:20:07TarvisMaybe that's what he meant?
08:20:31 Part AzureSky
08:20:39simonrvnoh, so that's probably why it's coming out garbled.
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08:20:58bieberThat's gotta be it
08:21:00simonrvni thought i did something wrong =)
08:21:17bieberIf you have more than 65,500 characters it's going to freak, lemme check it real quick to see if it's over the threshold
08:21:24CIA-6New commit by wincent (r27368): pdbox: Now backlight does not fade out −− making music requires attention.
08:21:25bieberI'll add that to my bugfix list
08:21:47TarvisI guess the simple solution is to make my OWN fullscreen viewport
08:21:54TarvisThat's what I did for the status bar, anyways'
08:21:55pixelmabieber: this channel is logged, so posting a full e-mail address here isn't such a great idea
08:22:27bieberTarvis: If you're compiling from source, commenting out line 54 in graphics/rbviewport.cpp should make the default viewport show
08:22:35bieberpixelma: That occurred to me about a minute after I posted it :(
08:23:17CIA-6r27368 build result: All green
08:23:38pixelmamaybe a Swede (that has access to the logs, like e.g. Bagder) could help out
08:23:55TarvisBadger: You awake?
08:23:56*simonrvn hopes bieber's email doesn't get abused
08:24:18TarvisAnyway, defining my own fullscreen viewport worked
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08:26:08bieberTarvis: For what it's worth, I think the rationale behind hiding the default viewport is to allow you to do things like loading fonts and images and declaring touch areas without worrying about it affecting your text formatting
08:26:31TarvisI see
08:26:39TarvisAll my text elements are in their own viewports already
08:26:54TarvisBut it's no big deal
08:27:55pixelmaTarvis: so you have a fullscreen viewport and smaller ones?
08:28:12TarvisOne viewport for all the images. and then text viewports for, well, text
08:28:26TarvisWherever text is, I make sure images aren't anyways
08:29:02biebersimonrvn: Yep, looks like that font you were using is just a couple characters over the limit
08:29:12simonrvnaah, i see.
08:29:13bieberI'll have a fix for it ready within a couple days
08:29:39simonrvntyvm, and tyt. it isn't urgent :).
08:29:42pixelmathat means you have overlapping viewports which is not recommended as you can run into trouble with updating or render problems (back then it was said "it isn't allowed"
08:30:24TarvisI see...
08:30:27simonrvni have one viewport in my theme that overlaps on purpose, for the volume display.
08:30:36simonrvnbut only when changing it.
08:31:12Tarvislike I said earlier though, there's nothing under the text viewports, and there's nothing over the images either
08:31:20TarvisSo all it interferes with is the backdrop
08:33:40TarvisIf behavior changes later and starts causing problems, then I will change it
08:43:22pixelmamy experience is that it pays off to do it correctly from the start. There were a few occasions when the parser got stricter and you had all these "my WPS doesn't work anymore" which I didn't have. It's your choice, just sharing som
08:43:52CIA-6New commit by bieber (r27369): Theme Editor: Added RBTouchArea class. Touch areas on a theme can now be displayed, but they're not clickable yet
08:43:58Tarviswell, I can get away with only 3 extra viewports, it looks like
08:44:20Tarvismultiple images per viewport
08:44:57TarvisMaybe 4, actually
08:45:33CIA-6r27369 build result: All green
08:46:39Tarvisthe images in the top bar on 1, the status bar on another, and the buttons on the bottom in a third/fourth
08:47:20simonrvnbieber: oh, fyi, the wide-ranged fonts work fine in the sim
08:47:31TarvisFor some reason I figured that I needed one for every VP...
08:47:49bieberRB supports them fine, it's just my renderer that doesn't support it ;)
08:47:58simonrvnyet ;)
08:48:18bieberThe structure of the font file is just a little different for fonts that big, and I forgot to check for it
08:48:30bieberI'd fix it now, but I've gotta sleep :P
08:48:52simonrvnah, i see. g'night, and thanks for looking into it.
08:49:17simonrvnlate here too
09:08:27amiconnHmm, aac-he qmf looks like emac could help a lot on coldfire
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09:51:31Tarvishey there jd
09:51:37Tarvisme and Bieber were discussing
09:52:02Tarvisis the fullscreen viewport of the wps supposed to exist even with other viewports defined?
09:52:14 Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
09:52:50TarvisIt still does in Rockbox, but he says that you said otherwise
09:52:59JdGordonyes, although if the first line of the wps is a new viewport it makes no difference if it does or doesnt
09:53:19TarvisI see
09:53:39TarvisRockbox Theme Editor is set up so that the fullscreen viewport isn't shown at all if there are other viewports defined
09:53:50JdGordonare you sure?
09:54:18Tarvis<bieber>I've been told that the default viewport is supposed to be hidden when any other viewport is opened, so my renderer does that, which I'm sure is why your images aren't showing up
09:54:47JdGordonirs sucks... :D more misunderstanding
09:54:53 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
09:55:04Tarviswhat does taxes have to do with this? :P
09:55:32Tarvisso which is proper behavior? and do you plan on changing it?
09:56:32JdGordonthe bahviour in rockbox is correct
09:56:33JdGordonand no
09:56:39Tarvisalright then
09:56:48TarvisI'll have to tell him that later, he isn't on right now
09:57:25pixelmaJdGordon: last time you said it shouldn't be possible to draw into the default if other viewports are present
09:57:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:57:46JdGordonthat is correct
09:57:47TarvisI think what he meant is AFTER other viewports are present?
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09:58:09Buschelamiconn: don't hold back with any aac-he emac optimization −− just a factor of 2 is missing ;-)
09:58:10pixelmathen the behaviour in Rockbox is wrong currently
09:58:20JdGordonthe default viewport logic is just complicated... pastebin your wps
09:58:24*JdGordon back in 15
09:58:36Tarvisit's not a wps problem
09:59:00Tarvisjust a debate on whether or not being able to render the fullscreen viewport while other viewports are present is proper or not
09:59:16Tarvisbecause in Beiber's theme editor, it is not, where in rockbox it is
09:59:41pixelmaopinion about this seems to change from time to time
10:00:03bluebroth3rbieber: using Qt Creator is not a problem. But it explains why lines in the pro file are broken up that weren't broken up when I committed it (i.e. the mac parts) :)
10:00:27Tarvisbluebroth3r: bieber went away a couple hours ago
10:01:06bluebroth3rI don't understand why Creator has to touch those lines at all −− the "new" version simply spreads out the the values over multiple lines, which doesn't make any difference (except it being split up ;-)
10:01:33bluebroth3rTarvis: I guess he'll see my message in the logs :)
10:01:49Tarvistrue, if he reads them
10:02:16bluebroth3r(my original question is around 10 hours old anyway and I was away when he answered :)
10:02:39amiconnBuschel: s/just//
10:03:07TarvisJdGordon: anyway Jd, my question was (and beiber's too) is should he keep the theme editor the way it is or allow fullscreen viewports to be shown if other viewports are present?
10:03:13Tarvisas the latter is rockbox's current behavior
10:04:36AzureSkyis it normal that my fuze(v1) is SLOW on usb when using RB but alot faster when using OF to load it up?
10:04:56TarvisAzureSky: Sortof. USB support in Rockbox for the fuze is pretty new
10:05:03Tarvisso it's still being worked on
10:05:08AzureSkyok, just checking :)
10:08:22AzureSkyits like usb1.1 speeds, reminds me of my ancient generic stick mp3 player, kinda wish there was an option to choose to have it auto load into OF till the usb supports faster rather then having to restart manually and hold the back button :/
10:08:36Tarviswell, it used to do that I think
10:08:46Tarvisbefore basic usb support was added
10:08:54AzureSkyyeah, my v2 still does
10:09:32AzureSkyi just got my v1 today, paid 57.88 for it brand new off the other day :)
10:18:08Tarviswell Im off to bed
10:18:10JdGordonTarvis: pixelma: the current rockbox code is always "correct" as far as the editor is concerned... (untill the editor is doing the same as rockboox anyway)
10:18:55Tarvisso yes, it is proper behavior?
10:19:57JdGordonif your theme works in the sim then the editor is wrong
10:20:11Tarvisok then
10:20:18TarvisI'll tell Bieber about it tomorriw I guess
10:20:33Tarvishe was under the impression that the fullscreen viewport should be hidden if other viewports are defined
10:22:37Tarvisanyway, night y'all
10:22:50 Part Tarvis ("/part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part /part")
10:23:10JdGordonnot hidden... just they dont draw *text*
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14:18:57KakoonHi all, i might have a very simple question, but have some trouble finding the right spot in the rockbox source.
14:20:42KakoonI have a simple fm transmitter, and for the reason that the stereo signal causes alot of hiss, i want to find a way to somehow compress the signal so that it all fits in the mono part
14:21:03Kakoonand wanted to use rockbox to process this signal and convert it to normal stereo again
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14:21:46JdGordonthat doesnt sound like a very good idea
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14:22:08JdGordonthe only way you could do that would be to compress each channel enough to fit both in...
14:22:25JdGordonand fm doesnt have much bandwidth per channel to begin with...
14:23:03kugelKakoon: you usually can't process fm radio as it's directly going to the dac (the CPU doesn't see it)
14:24:10Kakoonaha... and there is no way to catch it realtime?
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14:25:36KakoonI thought because there is a peak meter and because the sound in the recording screen sounds different from the sound in the fm screen, somehow rockbox receives and processes samples somewhere
14:28:00KakoonJdGordon: I thought, as a start, trying a simple adpcm algorithm, which normally takes half of the bitrate of normal pcm data, which should be able to fit two channels in one
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14:32:12Kakoonkugel: rockbox doesn't use a software processor to encode and store the audio?
14:32:44JdGordonnot unless we are recording from the radio
14:33:10Kakoonyeah that's what i'm talking about
14:33:57Kakooni would imagine it's not possible to process it in the fm screen, but would it in the recording screen?
14:34:05Kakooni mean that's all i need
14:34:25Luca_SKakoon: if I understand your question correctly, you have a FM transmitter attached to the audio jack of your mp3 player and when feeding it stereo data it adds a lot of noise to the output. Am I correct? If that's what you mean, you could set rockbox to playback audio (mp3 or fm radio, doesn't matter) in mono format.
14:36:05Kakoonluca_s: yeah, that would be a simple solution, no noise, but mono...
14:36:12kugelYou could process it in recording mode, but the quality is probably even more reduced
14:36:39JdGordonwhat is the fm being plugged into?
14:36:57JdGordonrockbox on both ends sounds like you could have a few better options
14:38:09KakoonOkay i have a desktop pc, with a sound processor on it, encoding stereo and rds, which is sent to a simple fm transmitter. and currently i use a normal stereo set to receive it, but i could use rockbox to receive it on the line in of the stereo...
14:39:18Kakoonbut stereo falls away in a range of 5 meters, but mono quality is great
14:39:30Kakoonand i wanna listen to any place in my house
14:39:43gevaertsGet a better transmitter then
14:40:33JdGordonsetup a squeezebox then
14:40:36JdGordonor similar
14:40:46Kakoonheh yeah, could be an option, but i wanna do it the cheap and nerdy way xD
14:40:52JdGordonunless you dont care about quality you want to stay away from fm
14:41:29JdGordonwhich DAP would you be using anyway?
14:41:39Kakoonstereo tool
14:41:59JdGordonon the reciving end
14:42:39Kakoonwell, in the end i would want to use rockbox for that? if you mean that...
14:43:02JdGordonrockbox on which mp3 player though?
14:43:11Kakoonsansa fuze
14:43:22JdGordoneven if you could do what you want, it would sound like ass anyway
14:43:26JdGordonthere are better alternatives
14:43:59Kakoonokay it's just a fun experiment to me, to see how far i could get
14:45:01gevaertsI'd use FSK encoding, and low-bitrate mp3
14:47:02Kakoonyeah, i wonder how well digital data is received over fm
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14:51:16Kakooni mean, the max frequency of mono signal is around 16 khz, and how many bits would i be able to decode successfully if i send data shorts, probably not all 16 bits
14:51:25Kakoonfar from that
14:55:01gevaertsYou're hoping to do straight DA->FM->AD and recover actual data?
14:55:32Kakoonbut if i want to send mp3 data over it, 128 kbit/s, say i want to send 8.000 'data' samples per second. then i would need to recognize 128 / 8 = 16 different values = 5 bits / sample
14:55:56*gevaerts recommends studying some signal processing first
14:55:58Kakoongevaerts: kind of yeah, I think
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14:59:15Kakoonwhere would signal processing help me here
14:59:33Kakooni send audio data to the fm transmitter, i receive audio data from rockbox
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15:02:12Kakoonbut still, theyre samples, with slightly less bit precision because of fm transmission right?
15:02:16Kakoonor am i thinking too simple there
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15:02:22gevaertsyou are
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15:02:43gevaertsI'm not a specialist, but I don't think what you want to do is practical
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15:05:57Kakoonbut anyway, if i would try this, where should i look in the source code of rockbox?
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15:06:19Kakoonso where do the fm recording samples come in
15:09:42CIA-6New commit by teru (r27370): keyboard: change how charactars are stored in the buffer. ...
15:11:28CIA-6r27370 build result: All green
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15:40:37CIA-6New commit by teru (r27371): tweak position of splash so that it is displayed inside the ui viewport.
15:42:14CIA-6r27371 build result: All green
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15:49:22funmankugel: ping
15:49:33kugelfunman: pong
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15:49:52CIA-6New commit by kugel (r27372): Rename/change SIMVER to APP_TYPE in the Makefiles. ...
15:50:15funmansomeone propose to send me a fuzev2 which can not be upgraded
15:50:31funmanis it ok if i send him back the fuzev2 i have in exchange?
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15:51:22kugelyou don't need to ask me, it's your fuzev2 :)
15:51:28CIA-6r27372 build result: All green
15:52:01funmanah i thought it was a loan for undetermined length ;)
15:52:26kugelisn't that the same? :P
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15:53:23kugelalso, if you can fix the upgrade problem you can give me the one you get in case I would like to have it back
15:53:52funmanI'll wait a few days before sending him the Fuzev2 in case I can quickly find the problem
15:57:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:59:35funmanbtw I found why my simulator sometimes stopped updating the screen (sortof)
15:59:46funmanit's a problem of my video card, the sim is fine
16:04:41funmanJdGordon: what's the status on fs#11254 ?
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16:25:48CIA-6New commit by kugel (r27373): Revert accidental change (I ran configure from within the tools/database directory).
16:25:56JdGordonwhats 11254?
16:26:26JdGordonfunman: wasnt it decidded it was a silly idea?
16:26:53*kugel hopes so :)
16:27:13funmanJdGordon: why that? I can't see anythign related to silliness in flyspray
16:27:30CIA-6r27373 build result: All green
16:27:33JdGordoni remember being told off in irc about it
16:27:47 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:27:49funmanby who?
16:28:04JdGordondont remember
16:29:43funmanif it's rejected then please reject the patch on flyspray
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17:30:48S_a_i_n_tbieber: Ping?
17:32:45S_a_i_n_tSVN rockbox *does* let you draw in the default (fullscreen) viewport)
17:34:20S_a_i_n_tAh, awesome...sorry, I was skimming through a bunch of backlog and missed JdGordon already saying this.
17:34:27*S_a_i_n_t skulks away again
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17:52:55CIA-6New commit by saratoga (r27374): Update the text in to make it clear that EABI should be used on ARM
17:54:38CIA-6r27374 build result: All green
17:57:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:11:37TarvisBieber: You here?
18:11:48TarvisBeiber_: sorry
18:20:41CIA-6New commit by kugel (r27375): Fix red in app builds
18:22:19CIA-6r27375 build result: All green
18:22:20*pixelma wonders what app builds are
18:23:10pixelmaas in Rockbox as an app?
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18:31:25kugelpixelma: yes
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18:32:00kugelsaratoga: do you read logs? adding the eabi change to major changes has been discussed (and rejected)
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18:34:27bieber_Tarvis: I'm bieber, not sure who beiber is ;)
18:34:51Tarvisheh, oops
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18:35:12Tarvisanyway, JdGordon says that rockbox's current behavior with fullscreen viewports is the proper behavior
18:35:23bieberYep, I saw the discussion
18:35:27TarvisI see
18:35:28bieberI'll go ahead and change that tonight
18:35:42TarvisI guess you do read the logs :P
18:35:57bieberNah, my client just lets me know when I've been pinged
18:41:45*Dhraakellian wonders if his freezing problems might be theme-related
18:42:09Dhraakelliangot it to freeze several times in a row last night
18:42:29Dhraakellianswitched back to cabbie from blueblackness, and it played the track without freezing
18:42:43Dhraakellianmight be coincidence
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18:46:07DhraakellianI did have it plugged in to a USB wall wart
18:46:43Dhraakellianbut when it happened last night, it was unplugged and connected to the aux in port of a dock
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18:55:15simonrvnsometimes when switching themes my fuze2 freezes very briefly. iimagine it's just something to do with disk access then loading the theme.
18:55:22simonrvni imagine*
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19:01:44kugelgevaerts: ping
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19:19:30gevaertskugel: gnip
19:20:36kugelgevaerts: I can now install (and run) RaaA to (from) /usr/local. but I'm not sure what to do about the "user" files (where rockbox needs write access to)
19:21:08gevaertsYes, that's the hard bit :)
19:21:09kugelinstalling to $HOME is tricky, because installing to /usr/local means you need sudo and then the user files are created with root permissions
19:21:49kugelhow are other apps doing it? some seem to install such user files into /usr/local/share, and override them if they detect something in $HOME
19:22:05gevaertswhich user files are we talking about exactly? Themes?
19:22:22gevaertsIt should work fine if it's started without anything in $HOME
19:22:27kugelbasically all files except the binary, codecs and plugins
19:24:19gevaertsThe files that rockbox touches at runtime are all in $HOME I assume
19:25:00gevaertsThose also don't exist after a fresh install I think, so that bit is easy
19:25:12kugelthey do
19:25:39kugele.g. default themes, but also eq presets, tagnavi and more
19:26:02gevaerts"touch" as in "modify"
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19:26:22kugelyou can modify them. isn't that one feature of rockbox?
19:26:46gevaerts*you* can, it's not done automatically (like e.g. the database or settings)
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19:27:06gevaertsI'm just trying to get the requirements right
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19:27:55kugelok, so only nvram.bin and config.cfg would be written automatically
19:28:20kugelrockbox could create them in $HOME as needed
19:28:58kugeldetecting something in $HOME to override the files that came from the installation will require a lot if changes everywhere I think
19:29:51gevaertsI think the ideal way would be that (for .rockbox/ files, not for e.g. audio) RaaA should first look in $HOME and then in the global location when reading, while it should only write in $HOME
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19:31:29kugelwell, ideally sure
19:31:36gevaertsInstalling anything in $HOME is going to cause trouble at some point. Suppose you install e.g. tagnavi in $HOME, and the user changes it, what do you do with a new version?
19:31:56kugelwe have tagnavi_custom for that purpose :)
19:32:00gevaertshm, that might be a bad example :)
19:32:40kugelthat problem exists on target builds too so it may not be a problem
19:33:13gevaertsAs a user, I reserve the right to delete any subdirectory in my $HOME, software should still work after that. Same idea with multi-user serups
19:33:20kugelI fear this runtime detection could take a large hit on target builds :(
19:33:32gevaertsmaybe, maybe not
19:33:41gevaertsIt depends on how you implement it
19:34:11kugelwell, you cannot hide everything behind preprocessor magic
19:34:37gevaertsIf your implementation of open() knows what sort of file it is, it can decide whether or not to look in $HOME first
19:35:06gevaertsAnd open() has this nice argument called flags. Maybe that could be used
19:35:10kugelI've played a bit around with that already and some places need an additional snprintf whereas currently simply the #define for the path is used
19:35:35kugelwe use the host's open()
19:35:46gevaertsbut we don't *have* to
19:36:11kugelIMO hacking this stuff into open() would be bad
19:37:23kugelmaybe I should concentrate on android, this flexibility with the user files isn't needed there :\
19:37:51gevaertsI'm not sure. You still want to be able to easily revert to default settings
19:38:50*gevaerts thinks
19:40:12gevaertsI think it's not "basically all files except the binary, codecs and plugins". We should be able to get away with a lot less problem cases
19:42:05gevaertsAren't most of those user-modifiable files stored in settings with a full path name anyway>
19:42:54kugelwell, if we are not too worred about a few extra snprint's, then things could be made runtime detectable
19:43:37gevaertsWhere exactly would those be?
19:43:51kugelgevaerts: some are only saved with the filename (and then only preserved over reboots if they're in .rockbox)
19:44:29kugelgevaerts: grep for the pathes #defined in settings.h
19:44:43kugelthere's some additional paths in other files too
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19:46:49gevaertsAre those usually (or even always) the path where the filebrowser is sent to when going to the relevant settings screen?
19:47:23Strife89Hmmmm, about how much RAM does a Max Playlist Size of 20,000 reserve?
19:48:00kugelalso different parts have their specific files (tagcache, font cache, fm presets, etc)
19:48:49gevaertstagcache and font cache aren't relevant
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19:52:16kugelit might not be that many areas actually
19:52:40gevaertsAll filenames in the config.cfg on my F60 are absolute
19:52:42kugelyou mean I should only worry about the files generated by installation that are user-editable, right?
19:53:08kugelgevaerts: strange, maybe it changed a while back but I can't remember anything
19:53:24gevaertsyes. I don't think it makes much sense to support e.g. extra codepages in $HOME
19:53:44kugelI think the font was an example which was only preserved over reboots if it was in .rockbox/fonts (because the .rockbox part of the path wasn't in config.cfg). IIRC
19:53:53freddybS_a_i_n_t: I posted an updated virtual keyboard patch if you want to try it out. FS #10763. It has a few modes to try out and predicted text with a learning dictionary. I think you'll like most of them better than the status quo.
19:54:21gevaertsI suspect that in most cases the problem is (a) the file browser showing only one location, and (b) the not-preserving-on-reboot feature
19:54:54kugelhow would you solve (a)?
19:56:13gevaertsI can see two solutions. One is having a unionfs like thing, the other is having a button to switch between system and user directories in the browser
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19:56:46gevaertsunionfs is of course the ideal solution, but I suspect it's out of scope here
19:57:49kugelwasn't that another gsoc project? :p
19:57:51gevaertsWell, there's a third solution, which is to copy all user modifiable files to $HOME on startup if they're missing, but I don't really like that one
19:57:56gevaertsyes, exactly :)
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19:58:23kugelyea, I also thought of some first run script
19:58:37gevaertshm, maybe it could be done reasonably nicely
19:59:12gevaertsdon't do copies, symlink if possible
19:59:34gevaertswell, it depends...
20:00:02gevaertssmall text files are fine to copy, but fonts can be big
20:00:43gevaertsSo yes, maybe a "first run" app/wizard thing
20:01:24gevaertsoh, symlinks also (partially at least) fix the updated files issue
20:01:50kugelthey're not available on all platforms though
20:02:02kugelI'd like the sdl app only depend on sdl if possible
20:02:31gevaertssure, but this is the
20:02:39gevaerts"first run" app, not the sdl app :)
20:03:05gevaertsIt could be a shell script, or a java android app, or anything really
20:04:28gevaertsAnyway, that's why I said "if possible". Symlinks solve some real problems, but not critical ones. Not having them means wasting a bit of space and having upgrades (possibly) behave a bit less nicely
20:05:10kugelalright, I need to run now. I'm already going to miss the start of the football game :) Thanks a lot for your input and the ideas
20:05:18gevaertsHave fun!
20:05:35gevaertsThe upgrade issue can be fixed by telling users to re-run the wizard after upgrades
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20:18:40sinthetekI don't suppose mp3s have any sort of metadata to mark their length or EOF, huh?
20:19:39joecoolprobably could be added, i see loads of crap in metadata from time to time on mp3's floating around the nets
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20:45:56mitkTheSeven: ping
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21:57:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:15:34jennifurThere is a slight problem with the tools/ in svn revision 27375. There is a missing " at the end of line 251. I'd do it myself, but i don't have svn write access.
22:17:30CIA-6New commit by gevaerts (r27376): Add missing quote, and use the right word
22:19:08CIA-6r27376 build result: 3 errors, 0 warnings (gevaerts committed)
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22:42:08TheSevenmitk: pong
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23:22:25CIA-6New commit by bluebrother (r27377): Generalize the application bundle copy workaround to simplify later reuse.
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23:23:56CIA-6r27377 build result: All green
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23:34:32TheSevendid you try if it works with r27014?
23:35:15*TheSeven guesses that "->" is in multidrive/volume related code and needs to be replaced by a "."
23:36:02mitkNo. It was last svn version. I will try with r27014 then.
23:37:14ropeladderto whomever: i'm getting a repeatable crash using rb on my clip+... i can't find anything like it on flyspray, should i just add the bug?
23:37:49TheSevensounds like a good idea.
23:38:50funmanropeladder: what is the crash?
23:39:27ropeladder"Data abort at (numbers and letters)"
23:40:12TheSevenhow did you trigger that?
23:40:14ropeladderit happens when I try and insert/queue tracks to an existing playlist using the context menu
23:40:22 Quit mitk (Quit: Leaving)
23:40:24ropeladderin the database
23:43:05funmanlet me get my clip+ and see if i can reproduce it
23:47:45joecoolbeen awhile since i used rockbox on 5g ipod, how's battery life (better/worse then stock)?
23:48:59joecoolactually nevermind, there's a page with times, i can look at it myself :-\
23:55:24funmanropeladder: what exactly do you do to crash the Clip+ ?
23:58:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:58:03pixelmahe explained it
23:58:29 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.)

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