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#rockbox log for 2010-08-08

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00:26:18soaa_kugel, any chance for an Android build for testing? ;)
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00:27:02 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:27:29 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
00:29:56CIA-6New commit by kugel (r27748): Android port: The RockboxService introduction broke 1.5/1.6 compability. This should bring it back (heaviliy based on the example given in the Android ...
00:31:14kugelsoaa_: screen resolution?
00:31:28soaa_HVGA, same as your Legend. ;)
00:31:33soaa_I have a Hero.
00:31:43CIA-6r27748 build result: All green
00:31:54soaa_(although, the Desire was just released with Telus yesterday... So tempting!)
00:32:47 Join sasquatch [0] (
00:33:08kugelsoaa_: with 2.1?
00:33:17soaa_I have 2.2.
00:33:48soaa_Though, apks for 2.1 should work on 2.2, right?
00:34:08gevaertsIs HVGA 400x360?
00:35:28soaa_Minus the notification bar.
00:35:35Bagder480x320 isn't it?
00:35:43soaa_... 320, my bad.
00:35:59*Bagder had no idea its named HVGA. Those names are all terrible
00:36:07*soaa_ just spent a long time at work.
00:36:18gevaertsVGA is 720x400!
00:36:59soaa_It's not that bad. VGA is 640x480, so HVGA (half VGA) is 320x480, and QVGA (quarter) is 320x240.
00:37:13soaa_It gets tricky when you have the letter X in there. And then you can't be sure anymore.
00:37:16Bagderit IS that bad
00:37:25gevaertsVGA is *not* 640x480
00:37:36gevaertsIt *can* be that, but it very often is something else
00:37:53soaa_[Citation needed]
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00:38:14scorche|shall of those names are horrid
00:38:54kugelscorche: I agree
00:38:58gevaertssoaa_: and
00:41:43soaa_gevaerts, you just contradicted yourself. When we refer to VGA as a screen resolution, it's 640x480. When we refer to VGA as a graphics adapter, it could mean other resolutions.
00:41:57soaa_Thanks, kugel. Testing right away/
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00:42:15gevaertssoaa_: When we say we, do we mean I?
00:42:23 Quit ender` (Quit: The greatest trick god ever pulled was building the universe to look exactly like he didn't exist.)
00:42:59Bagderwhen I say "we" I mean the same "we" who never calls a resoluton for VGA either ;-)
00:43:14gevaerts"VGA resolution" means "A resolution that's achievable with a VGA card"
00:43:26soaa_Not always.
00:43:47gevaertsSure, but I could also say "bicycle" and claim I mean a tree
00:44:05Bagderlike a larch?
00:44:41soaa_Wow, jeez, you're able to selectively ignore entire parts of an article you link to me in order to prove your point.
00:44:43*Bagder recognizes a tree from quite a far way away
00:45:48gevaertssoaa_: see the bit that starts with "The VGA specifications are as follows". Anything else is fluff
00:46:42*gevaerts didn't claim that that article was entirely accurate, he just linked to it to provide the citation that soaa_ wanted for the claim that VGA often is not 640x480
00:46:56 Quit BHSPitMini (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
00:47:04soaa_The part that interests us most now, since we're talking about screen resolutions, is the part that continues after "Standard graphics modes are:".
00:48:12soaa_If you want to stick to your 1987 definition, that's fine. But you don't have to so stuck up to it in 2010, when a VGA screen on a phone always means 640x480.
00:48:32gevaertsExcept that you don't *have* a VGA screen on a phone
00:49:30gevaertsIt's on the internet, used by a marketing department. It *must* be true!
00:50:04soaa_Like I said, stick to your 1987 definition if you really desire so.
00:50:37*gevaerts lets soaa_ happily use his DVWFQKJVDJQCYQQEWSAGDGAGSQSVGA screen
00:51:12soaa_But you're just being stuck up if you want to force your accepted definion on an entire community that refers to screen resolutions by their consistently marketed names, i.e. xda-developers.
00:51:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:52:21*soaa_ lets gevaerts happily use his 1987 IBM PC.
00:52:27Bagdersoaa_: in our community we really never use names, we use number x number
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00:53:02Bagdermostly I guess because our most used resolutions (thankfully) don't have names
00:53:04 Quit Xerion (Quit: )
00:53:26soaa_The Cowon D2 is QVGA.
00:53:29*soaa_ gets shot
00:53:33pixelmathen you just have to live with the fact that half the people don't know what whateverVGA resolution basically is
00:54:00*Bagder has a D2 but didn't know the name of its resolution until just now
00:54:39soaa_Well sorry for assuming kugel knows what HVGA is. It's written in Android documentation too, if I recall correctly.
00:54:49Bagderit is?
00:54:55pixelmaand you always have to answer questions just to specify so that everyone knows what it is
00:54:56soaa_Hold on, lemme pull up that page.
00:55:10BagderI have an android phone with that resolution and I've not seen that name before
00:55:24Bagderbut then again, I'm a bit clueless with the names
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00:56:15soaa_ Here ya go.
00:56:32DahvidCan someone help me?
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00:57:33gevaertssoaa_: the use of names like "FWQVGA" clearly shows that those are meant as a joke
00:57:37kugelsoaa_: I think it's generally safer to assume that people don't know what the cryptic *VGA abbreviations mean :)
00:57:50gevaertsDahvid: only if you ask a question
00:58:07DahvidRockbox installs a bootloader over the Apple one, right?
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00:59:07soaa_kugel, thanks for the tip. ;)
00:59:29DahvidMy iPod is no longer recognized by iTunes, and the Rockbox bootloader is corrupt, is there a way to switch back to the Apple one, so that I may be able to restore?
00:59:46gevaertsDahvid: which specific ipod is this?
00:59:58DahvidiPod 5g
01:00:04ChrononDahvid: You should always be able to access Apple's Disk Mode
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01:00:19DahvidI have put it in disk mode, but the same thing happens
01:00:30DahvidWindows recognizes it, in device manager and in windows exolorer
01:00:53DahvidIf I try to access the disk, Windows freezes
01:02:16DahvidI installed Rockbox using the automatic installer, and it worked fine for months.
01:03:12DahvidThe boot errors out with "file not found"
01:03:30gevaertsThat sounds like serious disk corruption
01:03:42n1sDahvid: sounds like corrupt partitions/filesystems
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01:04:01DahvidWhich, a restore should be able to fix?
01:04:16n1sif the disk isn't physically damaged
01:04:56DahvidWhy wouldnt iTunes recognize it?
01:05:01DahvidIsn't that hardware-level?
01:07:03gevaertsIf windows freezes if you try to access the disk, I'm not *that* surprised if itunes also misbehaves
01:10:40DahvidSo, is there a way to load the original Apple software?
01:10:53DahvidOr was that overwritten?
01:12:07gevaertshold the correct button while booting. The manual should say which one. However, if the Apple emergency disk mode doesn't work, that won't work properly either
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01:12:40DahvidSo, it's basically a lost cause.
01:13:32gevaertsHard to say. Do you have access to a linux system?
01:13:54gevaertsOr a mac, possibly
01:14:07gevaertsIf so, you could try
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01:15:31gevaertsI think there's a reasonable chance that the disk is bad though
01:15:57DahvidYa, both.
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01:16:29gevaertsMaybe can be helpful as well
01:18:27DahvidThanks, I'll try that.
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01:48:12freddybIs there a good theme to test all the features of the skin engine?
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01:52:25DahvidYayy.My iPod works again. :)
01:52:54kugelS_a_i_n_t: may I bug you about the icons? :)
01:53:53gevaertsDahvid: what did you end up doing?
01:54:28DahvidManual iPod Restore from that link..
01:55:06gevaertsok, so the filesystem and/or partition table were creatively messed up probably
01:55:39DahvidYa. Thanks for the help!
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02:03:11CIA-6New commit by mc2739 (r27749): Fix message output for make install and make fullinstall
02:04:50CIA-6r27749 build result: All green
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02:51:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:05:49JdGordonkugel: ping?
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04:14:20S_a_i_n_tkugel: When do you need them by? I kinda forgot this whole GSoC thing was winding up soon...
04:16:03S_a_i_n_tAnother thing, is the 24x24 size inclusive of a transparent border?
04:16:25S_a_i_n_tkugel: ^
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04:51:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:14:18KilroyHi all
05:14:49KilroyI've a problem :/
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05:15:07Kilroyi bought a ipod mini
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05:17:35Kilroyand after some manipulation, i think i kill my microdrive
05:17:52KilroyI've a picture when i turn it on
05:18:23 Quit storm` ()
05:19:20Kilroya magsafe and two plug
05:19:31KilroyI try to reset it
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05:20:00Kilroyi try to connect it to my computer
05:20:35Kilroy(my computer and itunes don't show it)
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05:20:58Kilroyso i don't know what i supose to do
05:21:10Kilroyso i'm here :)
05:21:21Kilroy(sory for my english, I'm french)
05:21:44Kilroyan idea?
05:22:42Kilroyi think i broke im when i want to install rockbox in
05:23:14krazykitinstalling rockbox wouldn't damage your drive
05:23:16 Quit JdGord (Client Quit)
05:24:23Kilroyyes i know, usualy no
05:25:03Kilroyso, if anybody know the ipod mini...
05:25:33 Quit antil33t ()
05:26:11krazykitwell, if it were ready to fail anyway, installing rockbox could have triggered it, but it's hardly rockbox's fault
05:26:46krazykiti don't know much about ipods, but should it turn out to be a drive failure, the ipod mini can use CF cards
05:26:59Kilroyi never say that
05:27:21Kilroyjust i don't know where find people who can help me
05:27:51Kilroyso i'm here xD
05:28:07Kilroyyes, i think i'll try with a CF card
05:30:13Kilroyjust, before to come apart my ipod, i want to try other things
05:30:44krazykitcan you put it into emergency disk mode? the manual should have the key combination to do so
05:30:56Kilroymy camera read the CF card, so i'll try to format the mircodrive
05:31:19Kilroyemergency disk mode? i only heard about reset
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05:31:24Kilroyi search that
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05:37:54krazykitemergency disk mode should make it so your computer can read the drive, but if it still fails, then you very well may have a dead drive
05:38:46krazykitapparently there's a diagnostic mode too, so that may be of value
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05:40:47S_a_i_n_tKilroy: If you do chose to dissassemble your mini, *be carefull*, break the clickwheel ribbon and you'll regret it.
05:40:57S_a_i_n_t(it's *really* easy to break)
05:41:20S_a_i_n_tAnd not so easy to find a new one.
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05:44:23S_a_i_n_tbieber: If I create a new project in the themeeditor, make sure the images I intend to use in the .wps are in the correct location (Backdrop.bmp is the example here) and type %X(Backdrop.bmp) in the .wps document...shouldn't the backdrop just kinda automagically appear in the preview pain?
05:44:32S_a_i_n_tI'm having some issues with that.
05:45:44Kilroyok, thks for the advice
05:45:56Kilroythe diagnostic mode works
05:46:06Kilroybut the reset do nothing
05:46:12S_a_i_n_tI only seem to have luck working on existing projects, creating a project from scratch doesn't seem to be nearly as simple.
05:46:19S_a_i_n_tbieber: ^
05:46:58S_a_i_n_tKilroy: Is there SMART data available in the Diagnostic Mode?
05:47:11S_a_i_n_t(I have no idea about the diagnostic mode for the Mini)
05:48:24Kilroyand wi've "smart dat"
05:48:42Kilroyand smart scan
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06:09:17Kilroythat doens't working :(
06:09:41Kilroyi think i'll dissassemble it
06:11:06Kilroymaybe a batterie problem
06:11:47Kilroybecause i can't do some test, it ask me to charge it
06:12:37Kilroyand the power cable is plug...
06:13:50Kilroythanks for the advice
06:14:11Kilroygood night
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06:51:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:47:24 Part froggyman
08:51:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:04:14S_a_i_n_tbieber: Pingy-pingy-ping?
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09:12:05S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: Ping?
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09:40:32CIA-6New commit by bertrik (r27750): Update portugues-brasileiro translation, FS #11521 by Rodrigo Barretto
09:42:39CIA-6r27750 build result: All green
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10:01:47bertrikDoes the samsung yh820 have alarm functionality in hardware?
10:02:29bertrikIt seems to use an RTC that supports it, but it's not enabled in the config file (there's a "TODO: ???" comment in it)
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10:51:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:59:46pixelmaah, r27749 looks like it could fix the weird output when building a sim that I saw recently.
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11:02:44CIA-6New commit by bertrik (r27751): Various minor fixes for Samsung YH* targets
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11:05:00CIA-6r27751 build result: All green
11:33:32pixelman1s: what do you think - should the "does the target have a radio" tag also appear in the theme tags section of the manual in non-radio target manuals? I'd think it would be helpful and a similar thing was done for the "does target have an RTC tag"
11:33:59pixelmaand targets that don't have an RTC
11:34:14n1syeah, that sounds like a good thing
11:36:25pixelmaok, I'll look into it later. There is also the "current screen" tag and the "play mode" that mention radio and have some more values on radio targets. Their descriptions mention the radio bit, I'm wondering what to do with those.
11:37:08pixelmaMaybe keep the radio in their description and add a note that they don't have an effect on targets without radio?
11:37:28n1syeah, i think that makes sense
11:39:37pixelmaalright... something more to do. It's always "fun" how you get sidetracked when looking into something else actually :\
11:40:13n1syeah, so many things to do and just scratching the surface almost always brings up more
11:44:11TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: pong
11:44:49S_a_i_n_tDon;t sppose you've had any luck narrowing down why the current Nano2G builds are borked?
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11:51:38bertrikborked how?
11:55:16bertrikhm, the ipod nano2g has quite a few drivers where the .c file does not seem to include its own header file, or where functions could be made static
11:57:34S_a_i_n_tbertrik: STkov NAND panics all over the place.
11:57:40 Quit Chronon (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
11:57:51S_a_i_n_tIt is basically (well, not basically, actually) impossible tyo use
12:08:22n1sS_a_i_n_t: do you know which commit caused it to start happenig?
12:09:52*TheSeven suspects something has changed regarding storage idle callbacks
12:10:01TheSeven(or something called by them)
12:10:16S_a_i_n_tI'm not sure which commit it was, no.
12:10:29TheSevendo you still know the range we narrowed it down to?
12:10:34S_a_i_n_tI haven't had the time to be able to weed it out with a binary search either. :/
12:11:07S_a_i_n_tTheSeven; Someone on the tracker seemed to know an approximate range IIRC
12:12:42TheSeven[12:56] <TheSeven> the fs reports narrow it to r26850 - r27036
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12:37:46bertrikThere is some funky stuff going on with structs and typedefs in ftl-nano2g.c :)
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12:40:07bertrikstruct ftl_vfl_cxt_type is declared as a named typedef, while struct ftl_cxt_type is declared as a direct struct (without typedef) which causes a completely unused struct to be instantiated
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12:50:48CIA-6New commit by bertrik (r27752): ipod nano 2g: make functions/variables static where possible, add missing #includes
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12:51:19CIA-6r27752 build result: All green
12:51:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:52:12TheSevenbertrik: look at ftl-target.h :D
12:52:19TheSeventhat one's even worse
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12:53:08TheSeveni'll probably backport half a dozen ftl fixes rather soon
12:56:16S_a_i_n_tAfter that, I'll do a new build and see if it just so happens to be magically fixed.
12:56:21S_a_i_n_t(fingers crossed)
12:56:46S_a_i_n_tThe current build panics after 10~15 seconds on all my Nano2Gs
12:56:50bertrikS_a_i_n_t, I doubt it will fix itself ...
12:57:19bertrikDoes stkov say which stack overflowed?
12:57:32S_a_i_n_tbertrik: I was more hoping that something TheSeven or yourself does fixes it.
12:57:40S_a_i_n_tand, no.
12:57:59S_a_i_n_tAh...what am I talking about, yes. It does.
12:58:04S_a_i_n_tStkov NAND
12:58:18S_a_i_n_tbertrik: ^
12:58:33*TheSeven suspects the stack size will just need to be increased a bit
12:58:59TheSeventhis is probably caused by a storage idle callback calling some settings saving function, which calls some fat functions that throw sector buffers on the stack
12:59:19S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: I forgot where to increase those stacks, if you give me a hint on what to increase and where...I'll try it out and see if it helps any.
13:00:08TheSevenincrease the array size in the definition of nand_stack in target/arm/s5l8700/ipodnano2g/nand-nano2g.c
13:00:29S_a_i_n_tto what?
13:00:49TheSevenjust add like 0x2000 first and check if the problems go away
13:01:08TheSevenif yes, decrease it until you notice trouble again
13:01:15S_a_i_n_tSweet, I'll have a nosey shortly.
13:01:58TheSeveni'm still wondering who is responsible for that additional stack usage though
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13:03:11S_a_i_n_tIt may just be a coincidence as I hadn't built in some weeks before the commit, but I made a build the day the new skin parser was committed and that was when I reported the Nano2G was unusable
13:03:42kugelbertrik: "#include "backlight-target.h"" wasn't needed, was it? backlight.h includes that already
13:03:45S_a_i_n_tI don't want to blame the parser though, just something I noticed.
13:04:02kugelalso IIUC those *-target.h files should never be included directly
13:04:24bertrikkugel, I think it was
13:04:45bertrik_backlight_on and _backlight_off were not defined otherwise
13:05:32kugelas I said, backlight.h includes backlight-target.h
13:06:24bertrikwell, something is fishy then
13:06:44 Quit seani (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
13:07:42kugeloh wait, it doesn't
13:17:16bertrikIf I understand correctly, the NAND stack has a size of DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE which should be just 0x400 bytes (1 kilobyte)
13:17:33TheSeven...which should normally be sufficient
13:18:08TheSeventhe nand thread usually needs only a few bytes, in the beginning i had set the stack to 32 words or something, since it was only watching for a timeout and powering down the chip
13:18:37TheSevenhowever as it's now calling the storage idle callback, it might be doing all hell of things
13:18:42bertrikok, weird. Maybe the stack isn't really overflowing then, but rather corrupted by something else
13:19:46TheSevenit might be running through the whole settings and fat code and might end up in the ftl and nand driver again
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13:21:10kugelS_a_i_n_t: I don't think the icons are terribly critical, the tiny ones are just weird
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13:21:44S_a_i_n_tkugel: Sweet as, does the 24x24 size need a transparent border?
13:21:50S_a_i_n_tOr is that the full icon?
13:22:45kugelthe current ones have no border afaics
13:23:22S_a_i_n_tI guess what I mean is, they won't be touching each other will they? unless someone has less that 24px font I guess.
13:23:47S_a_i_n_tI think a long list of icons touching each other looks crap.
13:24:46kugelthey'll draw over each other but that hasn't been a problem so far
13:26:13S_a_i_n_tI shall start on them tomorrow, it won't take me too long I imaging...I'll borrow from the Tango! iconset again, as seems to be the "cabbie" style.
13:26:39kugelyes, sounds good
13:27:56S_a_i_n_thehehe...your phone can load 320x240 WPS etc right?
13:28:10*S_a_i_n_t just finished the iLike WPS for the Video
13:28:39S_a_i_n_tiPod OF an an Android phone would look just plain wrong I imagine.
13:28:52kugelI'm not keen on trying it out
13:29:20kugelbtw, you can configure the sdl app for 320x480 if you want to have a look
13:30:11S_a_i_n_tSounds good, I literally haven't seen any of the RaaA port so far.
13:30:17S_a_i_n_tNarry a single screenshot.
13:30:52kugelI've posted some where a few days ago
13:31:37S_a_i_n_tThanks man.
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13:34:27S_a_i_n_tkugel: I guess you need a new "default" statusbar also?
13:34:36S_a_i_n_tThat one looks *tiny*
13:35:04S_a_i_n_tThe rest looks very good though.
13:38:16kugelI think it would be more useful to use *no* statusbar but reserve some space for the android statusbar actually
13:39:44S_a_i_n_t%>cs conditional UI viewports should do the trick.
13:39:50S_a_i_n_t%?cs even
13:47:29bertrikhm, when I type "make dep" I see two lines (instead of one) saying "Generating dependencies"
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14:18:46*TheSeven throws a rock at the fat cache
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14:25:14stripwaxTheSeven - is that because we're using the fat cache on nand targets?
14:25:28TheSevenmore because of the way it's implemented
14:25:36stripwaxah ok
14:25:47TheSevenand because it has a fixed size for all targets
14:25:58stripwaxis it necessary at all though, for flash targets?
14:26:13TheSevenhaving 32 sectors of fat cache on a flash lowmem target seems to be waste
14:26:26TheSevena few sectors, yes, but not that much
14:26:49TheSevenwe at least need one sector to prevent it from re-reading the same fat sector between each cluster read
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14:27:28stripwaxhrm, for some reason I thought the ftl would do that caching
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14:29:38TheSevenand most of our flash targets don't even have a software ftl
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14:30:18TheSeven[14:28] <TheSeven> nope
14:30:18TheSeven[14:29] <TheSeven> and most of our flash targets don't even have a software ftl
14:31:10bieberS_a_i_n_t: I _think_ your issue from last night has to do with SBS rendering
14:31:38bieberIt looks like if you have an SBS and a WPS, and you haven't declared a Custom UI viewport in the SBS, the WPS won't render
14:31:54bieberI'm going to try and fix up all the SBS rendering code later today
14:32:05S_a_i_n_tbieber: Do you mean my issue with the backdrop?
14:32:25S_a_i_n_tHmm,'s pretty weird.
14:32:40 Quit stripwax (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
14:32:53bieberIt is, but I shouldr have it fixed soon ;)
14:33:05stripwax_ah right, of course.
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14:33:59S_a_i_n_tbieber: I'm still using 27700, so there's a lot of things I'm not certain if you've fixed or not ;)
14:34:12bieberOh, lol
14:34:17bieberAny other issues in particular?
14:35:29S_a_i_n_tHmmmm. If you click "Open Project" or "New Project" or whatever, the editor appears to be in a hard lock, but its just doesn't appear to update until the mouse is moved.
14:35:34S_a_i_n_tThat's kinda weird.
14:35:57S_a_i_n_tAnd I manage to crash the thing all the time moving viewports, but, I *think* you fixed that.
14:36:12S_a_i_n_tJust not in a revision that I'm using.
14:37:22bieberYeah, moving viewports was very unstable up until a couple days ago
14:38:07S_a_i_n_tHmmmm....what else....I find it really annoying that it messes up my formatting, but, that's kinda a non-issue. Newlines after comments s kinda annoying also.
14:38:21S_a_i_n_tthis is all just very picky stuff though.
14:38:35S_a_i_n_t%ax always getting its own line is a bit odd too.
14:38:53bieberNewlines after comments are fixed, the rest of the formatting I'm afraid I can't really do anything about
14:39:31S_a_i_n_tI always use it as "%ax%V(blah blah)%Vf(blah)%Vb(blah)"
14:41:02S_a_i_n_tIt still works fine of course, but I'm of the opinion that both %ax and the %Vf/b tags should be in the viewport declaration line.
14:41:45S_a_i_n_t(unless you want to use %Vf/b conditionally...pretty sure you can do that)
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14:46:44byondokugel, are you here?
14:47:33byondofirstly thank you for your great effort!
14:48:10byondoirc webclient is sooooo laggy...)
14:48:47byondoIhave an Archos 5IT
14:49:01byondoit mounts android 1.6
14:49:55S_a_i_n_tbah! more Nano2G PANICing...
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14:51:40byondoI tried to install the apk you linked for soaa_ just for curiosity
14:51:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:52:18byondoand guess what? it worked :)
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14:52:33kugelnice :)
14:53:52byondobut it's a lower resolution than one's supported by the archos
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14:58:44kugelbyondo: yes that's expected, we don't do multi screen resolution (yet)
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15:04:00byondooh well...have to correct myself, it works "somewhat"
15:04:42byondosome times reproduction doesn't start
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15:06:15byondodon't know why, but it's only a plain dirty try, so I don't expect too much :)
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15:08:02kugelbyondo: "reproduction doesn't start"?
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15:10:41byondoyou open an mp3 file, wps appears, but music doesn't start
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15:16:05simonrvni had a theme like that. didn't find out until i tested on OF, and moved my config.
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15:16:36simonrvnluckily just the one i made. now i gotta figure what in it made it do that.
15:17:04simonrvnpress play, music doesn't start
15:17:43simonrvnonly change there is is the status icon changes from stop to play/pause
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15:31:32JdGordonkugel: hey, where is the android specific code for loading codecs/plugins?
15:32:00kugelcodecs.c and io.c
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15:35:04JdGordonah ok, ta
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17:06:08*TheSeven wonders if reentrant fat code really makes sense
17:06:19TheSevenwouldn't this cause unneccessary seeks?
17:06:21 Quit domonoky (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
17:07:41gevaertsTheSeven: multiple drives?
17:07:52TheSevenoh, i forgot :)
17:08:29*TheSeven always wonders about things from an ipod's perspective :)
17:11:01*gevaerts steals TheSeven's collection of ipods
17:21:22TheSeveni only have two of them!
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17:29:06Davide-NYCI have a WebOS device. Is there any way for me to help with the RaaA project? I'm not a developer.
17:29:13kugelgevaerts: I think I just managed to make Rockbox more usable on these HTC phones with bugged firmware
17:29:46Davide-NYCkugel: Congratulation on getting sound working on Android!
17:30:53gevaertskugel: nice!
17:31:11kugelgevaerts: I can't explain how, but I know run the pcm callback from a separate thread (it was previously called from the ui thread even though the docs say it's called from the thread which creates the AudioTrack object)
17:31:23gevaertsI don't know if I'll be able to test it soon though, I won't be at the same site as the HTC owner most of next week
17:31:36kugeland it appears the UI thread would be blocked for an activity if it's in the background but tries to get too much CPU
17:32:16kugelwhich leads to playback "just stops" for no reason
17:32:32kugelthe separate thread makes it now recover even if it stutters sometimes
17:33:20gevaertsThat's probably the 5% limit kicking in I'd guess
17:33:25kugel(my legend seems to have enough cpu to keep it playing at an acceptable level with this=
17:33:33bertriksounds like a feature, not a bug :)
17:34:11TheSeventry ape :P
17:34:17kugelI'm bitter the docs are lying though
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17:49:21kugelDavide-NYC: I'm going to write up something which should help porting RaaA next week, if that's any help for you
17:49:40kugelbut it'll still need a developer to do it
17:50:28Davide-NYCThat is huge. Thank you. For what it's worth, I can compile code. I can apply patches and I can make trivial modifications to code. (trivial only)
17:50:46Davide-NYCIf that's of any help feel free to ask me for it.
17:51:14Davide-NYCTesting and reporting is of course my pleasure.
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17:53:05CIA-6New commit by kugel (r27753): Run the pcm callback from a separate OS thread, that seems to make audio playback ...
17:53:39kugelDavide-NYC: I'm afraid that's not enough
17:54:39CIA-6r27753 build result: All green
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18:02:46*TheSeven wonders how many and what kind of worms would be in the preemptive multitasking can... not that i'd want to open it, just wondering...
18:03:03TheSevenone is in the fat code for certain...
18:03:09 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:03:10gevaertsMainly locking, all over the place
18:03:19pamaurythere are probably too many problems to list them
18:04:00gevaertsI don't think there's a single line of code in rockbox that was written with the thought that it might be run under a preemptive scheduler
18:04:11TheSeveni've seen dozens of places where locking wouldn't be needed for cooperative multitasking, but where it was done
18:04:47pamaurylike ?
18:05:04gevaertshm, right, there are some of those. I don't know if they are correct though
18:05:17TheSevenfor example the fat cache
18:05:23*gevaerts thinks we shouldn't even consider preemptive multitasking as long as we have any other kind of stability issue
18:05:28TheSevenand that one certainly isn't correct
18:06:06kugelgevaerts: even worse, I think there are a couple dozen lines that are written under the assumption that they won't be interrupted without a yield call
18:06:14pamauryare you sure ? the storage code might yield and the fat reentered by another thread, except of the fat has a global lock, I can't remember
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18:06:39gevaertskugel: yes, definitely
18:06:53 Quit GodEater (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:07:20kugelI'm especially thinking about the codec/audio/buffering mixture
18:08:42 Quit GeekShad0w (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
18:08:46TheSevenso rockbox is running as a single thread scheduling its internal thread by itself on raaa to avoid that mess?
18:09:20kugelyea, exactly
18:09:50kugelon android, the whole app hosts 3-4 OS threads, 1 of them hosts all rockbox threads
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18:11:17pamaurythe simulator runs at least two threads anyway, one for input & display I think, and perhaps another one for storage
18:11:38kugelIMO preemptive threads have no real advantage for rockbox as os, but the cooperative nature makes porting RaaA slightly more complicated
18:12:31gevaertsYes, but I'd say that changing it will be a lot more effort than the extra work needed for RaaA on all platforms we'll eventually support
18:13:05kugelthe sdl port shows how to do it even if preemptive os threads are the only possiblity
18:13:43kugeland each port should be able to use pth just fine
18:13:55pamaurythe good thing is that you can always simulate cooperative threading with preemptive one
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18:40:12*TheSeven wonders why the rockbox fat code is hardwired to a maximum of 2 fats
18:41:23TheSeven(in flush_fat_sector)
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18:44:10CIA-6New commit by kugel (r27754): A bit of cleanup. ...
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18:45:26nesto1000Hi... anyone there? xD
18:45:47CIA-6r27754 build result: All green
18:46:37nesto1000Do any of you guys think that it would be possible to install rockbox on an itouch sometime in the future?
18:52:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:52:23gevaertsProbably never natively (the way it's done on a regular ipod), because that would lose too much functionality
18:53:12gevaertsMaybe as an application, but that would require a jailbroken device (we suspect that Apple will *never* allow rockbox on the app store), and of course someone to do the actual porting work
18:54:08TheSeven...and rockbox would *never* sign that hilarious iphone developer agreement :P
18:55:26gevaertsRight, our license is somewhat incompatible with that
18:57:42kugelgevaerts: I can now run top in a terminal emulator on the device while rockbox plays :) and it shows 13%-18%
18:57:45kugelcpu usage
18:57:57kugelI'm wondering why it's so high, it was lower :\
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18:58:24gevaertsDoes the thing adjust CPU frequency?
18:58:41kugelquite possibly
18:59:23gevaertsIn that case, the CPU usage on its own doesn't say much
18:59:56pamauryTheSeven: it hardwires it to 2 because nobody has ever see a FAT filesystem with more than 2 FATS
19:01:12 Quit Kitr88 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
19:01:19pamauryin the fat doc from microsoft:
19:01:23pamauryThe count of FAT data structures on the volume. This field should always contain the value 2 for any FAT volume of any type
19:04:34nesto1000Dam... O well...
19:05:01nesto1000Guess I'll just go jail break it if i can... :/
19:05:34kugelgevaerts: ah I see, being attached to usb apparently disables frequency scaling
19:05:52kugelhooking it up to adb shell and top shows a lower value
19:06:26*kugel just got a call, his recent change works nicely :>
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19:34:54wodzdo we need I2C driver in bootloader on coldfires?
19:36:21wodzas well as sound.c ?
19:40:28bertrikI guess we don't but I'm not very familiar with the coldfire targets
19:41:49bertrikIIRC, some coldfire bootloaders haven't been tested for a long time
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19:42:58wodzI know
19:43:27wodzand bootloader for H300 from svn is broken IFAIK
19:44:24bertrikI can't exactly remember the outcome of the discussion we had about this at devcon
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20:15:42wodzAm I correct that in order to move MPIO HD200 to unstable on frontpage I have to pull www from svn and than commit modification in index.t?
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20:16:16gevaertsThere's another bit in www somewhere
20:16:17*gevaerts looks
20:17:36gevaertswodz: in the main repository, tools/
20:17:53gevaertsI suspect you want status 2, but that's really just an educated guess
20:18:06wodzok thx
20:18:58CIA-6New commit by wodz (r27755): www - move MPIO HD200 to unstable
20:19:23wodzmay I ask to update webpage?
20:19:38gevaertsThat's Zagor's or Bagder's job
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20:22:46CIA-6New commit by wodz (r27756): Mark MPIO HD200 as unstable in tools/
20:23:08 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:24:26CIA-6r27756 build result: All green
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20:41:20CIA-6New commit by wodz (r27757): HD200 - Use DMA transfers in lcd_update() and lcd_update_rect(). Gives 12-26% speedup.
20:42:57CIA-6r27757 build result: All green
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20:52:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:04:47*TheSeven glares at the DEBUGFs in update_fsinfo()
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21:43:50stripwaxanyone recall anything changing with db recently? I get a data abort upon committing database. only way out seems to be deleteing the database again via usb.
21:44:15stripwaxin this "no database" state, I seem to be able to initialise the database; only to get the data abort again when it tries to commit it.
21:44:40stripwaxwould my database_tmp.tcd be useful for debugging anything?
21:46:31 Join h3po [0] (
21:47:51stripwaxwondering if i can just stick the files onto pc and run the sim ..
21:51:33wodzit should work (IIRC the reverse procedure was used on ams v2 when there was no sd writing support)
21:52:50wodzwho is our 'art master'?
21:58:43bertrikstripwax, there was a bug fix recently in the database related to "recently added" entries
21:59:17bertrikbut I guess you could just check the svn log of tagtree.c to get the full picture
21:59:38 Join JennaKitten [0] (
21:59:56JennaKittenHey, how can I stop an ipod with rockbox from entering disk mode? it wont let me use the USB HID feature
22:00:23bertriktagcache.c I mean
22:01:01stripwaxJennaKitten : - hold down the menu key on ipod while connecting to your pc
22:01:21JennaKittenReally? Its that simple? Cool Im gonna go try it
22:01:40pixelmathat won't give you HID mode though
22:01:41stripwaxyes, and I think it's described in The Manual
22:02:02stripwaxpixelma - no, but it will stop it from entering disk mode. and from there you can then turn on HID mode
22:03:02pixelmaJennaKitten: which build do you run exactly?
22:03:20pixelmawhich version
22:03:36JennaKittenI dont know, but allthat did was make it normal ipod mode
22:03:40JennaKittenhow do I turn an ipod off?
22:04:20wodzJennaKitten: I don't want to sound rude but did You read the manual?
22:04:56JennaKittenthere we go, i figured out how to turn it off
22:05:07JennaKittenholding menu didnt work
22:05:14JennaKittenoohh it did now! didnt
22:05:28stripwaxJennaKitten - is rockbox actually running on your ipod? I meant to run rockbox first, on your ipod. and THEN hold menu and while menu is held down plug it into your pc
22:05:40JennaKittenokay ill try that now again
22:05:45JennaKittenhow long do I hold it?
22:05:58stripwaxuntil the pc recognises the device is attached
22:06:11stripwaxyou should also see a tiny little 'plug' icon on the rockbox statusbar on your ipod
22:06:17stripwaxtop left, if you have the default theme
22:06:28 Quit bieber (Remote host closed the connection)
22:06:39JennaKittenits looking for a driveer
22:07:07stripwaxclick cancel, you should be fine
22:07:22CIA-6New commit by wodz (r27758): fix warrnings in test_core_jpeg.c and test_mem_jpeg.c
22:07:24JennaKittenok its plugged in but how do i get the hid part to work
22:07:38stripwaxJennaKitten - isn't that in The Manual?
22:07:46JennaKittenIt only works when its in usb mode
22:08:04pixelmastripwax: I wouldn't know how to get to HID with Rockbox not in the USB screen...
22:08:21 Join slck [0] (
22:08:57pixelmathere is/was a remote plugin but hasn't been maintained since the early beginnings of the HID driver
22:09:05CIA-6r27758 build result: All green
22:09:14 Join bieber [0] (
22:09:45JennaKittenthe plugin orks
22:09:49JennaKittenbut its not the same
22:10:07stripwaxpixelma - I thought Settings -> USB HID would do it?
22:10:15JennaKittennope :(
22:10:44stripwaxah so HID only works when rockbox is in usb disk mode?
22:11:02gevaertsHID works during a normal MSC connection, if it's enabled in the settings. "Charging only" mode enumerates as HID for technical reasons, but it never sends any HID events
22:11:09JennaKittenI have right now a nano 1st gen, but in the mail is a 4th gen classic monochrome and that should be here soon
22:11:15pixelmastripwax: no, that's for turning HID support off because some OSs didn't like USB composite devices which Rockbox is with HID and refuse to even establish a data connection
22:11:15stripwaxgevaerts - oh! :-(
22:12:16stripwaxJennaKitten - in that case, it seems like HID only works if you're also in disk mode. Why, out of interest, do you want to required rockbox to not be in disk mode for using HID?
22:12:29JennaKittenBecause it uses the apple disk mode and doesnt work
22:12:43pixelmaJennaKitten: if it is rebooting to disk mode on plug in while Rockbox is running, then you probably use a release build which had Rockbox USB turned off on the Ipods because of charging problems
22:12:44JennaKittenwhere everything is all black and white and stuff?
22:12:55stripwaxJennaKitten - ehhhh no, I mean rockbox disk mode ..!
22:13:02stripwaxplug it in WITHOUT the menu key :)
22:13:04JennaKittenyeah it doesnt enter that ever
22:13:15JennaKittenit enters apple's emergency disk mode
22:13:19stripwaxrockbox is running first, and THEN plug it into your pc
22:13:29stripwaxsame as what you just did except DON'T press menu key
22:13:36JennaKittenI know thats what I always do
22:13:39gevaertsJennaKitten: run a current build. The 3.6 release still reboots to the Apple disk mode
22:13:49JennaKittenI installe it like a week ago :O
22:13:52stripwaxJennaKitten - and then turn on HID
22:14:09gevaertsYes, but you probably installed the latest *release*
22:14:29stripwaxJennaKitten - 3.6 is a month or so old. we have current releases daily/even more often
22:14:37JennaKittenOh wow!
22:14:37stripwaxi mean current builds.
22:14:55JennaKittendo I still use the rockbox utility?
22:14:57gevaertsHave a look at System -> rockbox info. That should tell you which specific version you're running
22:15:04stripwaxJennaKitten yep
22:15:10pixelmaJennaKitten: what does main menu > System > Rockbox Info tell you in the "Version" part?
22:15:24stripwaxJennaKitten - but before you install a different version; can you see if what I suggested works?
22:15:32JennaKittenWhat did you suggest
22:15:55stripwaxas I understand it, you *want* to use HID, right? so boot into rockbox on your ipod, then plug it into your pc, then turn on HID on your ipod
22:16:06stripwaxoh wait
22:16:15 Join liar [0] (
22:16:25stripwaxignore me, install a current build.
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22:16:28gevaertsstripwax: if this is 3.6, that won't work
22:16:30JennaKittenIm doing that now
22:16:31stripwaxsorry, I'm an idiot.
22:16:38wodzI have everything up and running to display nice animation for charging and usb screen in HD200 bootloader. The only missing part are battery icons itself. This which I created look 'suboptimal' :-)
22:16:54JennaKittenYou all should make it so you can easily customize the splash screen
22:16:54stripwaxI misunderstood - thought the release/current thing was about plugging in usb while powered off;
22:17:09stripwaxJennaKitten - it's really easy - just recompile!
22:17:15pixelmano, that would be a bootloader thing ;)
22:17:25JennaKittenYeah....Im not that good
22:17:57bluebrotherRockbox Utility tells you how to install a current build if you install via the Quick Start tab
22:18:04JennaKittenIm doing it manually already
22:18:06 Join Topy44 [0] (
22:18:18wodzI am looking for more skilled person with art stuff
22:18:27bluebrothermaybe we should remove that hint again ... :o
22:20:35JennaKittenanother idea, someone should make an ipod style theme exactly like the real ipod theme
22:20:57*TheSeven wonders in which file the endianness macros (htole32 etc.) are defined
22:20:59gevaerts(a) why? and (b) I think someone is working on one
22:21:12JennaKittenJust because it looks nice and the font is big and nice
22:21:20JennaKittenMost of the themes are so cluttered
22:21:30stripwaxJennaKitten - there are several I think (or at least there were; recent wps changes probably make the old ones unloadable)
22:21:40JennaKittenokay i installed the latest build
22:21:41JennaKittennow what?
22:21:59stripwaxdisconnect; turn on rockbox; plug into pc
22:22:07JennaKittenit worked
22:23:30JennaKittenthanks a lot :D
22:23:39JennaKittenSo do I do the same thing with the ipod im getting in the mail?
22:23:53stripwaxshould work fine
22:24:14stripwaxobviously select a different build from rockbox utility .. the ipod 4g build ..
22:24:19pixelmayou can install a current build with the Rockbox Utility as well on first install
22:24:40JennaKittenOkay cool.
22:25:21JennaKittenDoes the line out on the dock still work? I dont want to spend 30 bucks on a custom cable and not have it work
22:25:22wodzisn't the theme which mimics apple called iLike?
22:25:57TheSevenurgh, system.h
22:26:22stripwaxJennaKitten - it should work (you can enable/disable it easily from the rockbox Settings menu)
22:26:46stripwaxTheSeven - could be worse ?
22:26:59JennaKittenokay cool. what about the apple remote? does that work?
22:26:59TheSeveni wouldn't have searched there...
22:27:24stripwaxJennaKitten - check the compatibility chart on the wiki
22:27:40JennaKittenOoooh they have one of those?
22:28:12stripwax(it should work fine but check anyway)
22:28:45JennaKittenumh...where is the chart?
22:30:44stripwax'they', by the way, is more sort-of 'us'..
22:31:49JennaKittenwhat does the "needs to be retested" mean
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22:33:32stripwaxit means it hasn't been checked since a number of improvements were made to rockbox. if it worked before, it will (should) still work fine. if it didn't work previously, it may work now, but hasn't necessarily been tested by anyone who has one.
22:34:18JennaKittenWell apple designed the radio remote only to work on the nano and video...does that mean even with rockbox it still only works with those two?
22:34:45h3po1JennaKitten: i'm not one of 'them' but i can say you're driving these poor guys crazy ^^ - they spend hours to put together these wiki pages and people don't care to read everything before asking
22:34:53stripwaxthe ipod radio remote apparently worked fine in Dec 2009, on an ipod video. i don't know anything about it well enough to know whether it works on other ipods
22:35:05JennaKittenhm....I wont risk it then
22:35:12stripwaxit "might work fine"
22:35:20stripwaxbut without anybody testing it, we will never know ...
22:35:28JennaKittenhmm....I shall test it...
22:35:37 Quit h3po (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:36:56JennaKittenOh my...ebay doesnt have much of them :O
22:37:11*stripwax thinks the ipod radio remote line should NOT be in the 'needs to be retested' section, given that the section applies to a code change in 2008..
22:39:57JennaKittenthis is cool because the nano battery is shot so now it can live on as a remote...
22:43:50wodzHa! I figured out why MPIO isn't recognized on usb insertion from time to time. It is not enumerated correctly when battery is low (even if AC power is present).
22:47:06 Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@
22:47:48stripwaxbah. i copied my database*.tcd files to ipod simulator, and it worked fine. just seems to choke on-target.
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22:50:00wodzstripwax: Have You checked filesystem on the device? I had wide spectrum of unusual effects with corrupted filesystem
22:50:28stripwaxwodz - mm, no, I haven't actually. good point..
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22:52:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:57:01CIA-6New commit by bluebrother (r27759): Support running NSIS from deployment script. ...
22:58:44CIA-6r27759 build result: All green
23:00:10stripwaxwodz - apparently no filesystem problems. i'm baffled.
23:00:50bertrikstripwax, maybe toggling dircache make a difference (just guessing)
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23:13:07stripwaxbertrik - seems to be ok in sim with/without dircache.
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23:21:33stripwaxand doesn't seem to make a difference on target (crashes with/without dircache)
23:21:47stripwaxdata abort at 0004dxxx where xxx are some digits I've forgotten
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