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#rockbox log for 2010-08-29

00:00:11 Quit Dreamxtreme (Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.)
00:01:48CIA-81New commit by funman (r27930): disktidy: store the number of removed files as global scope ...
00:02:13funmani forgot to mention it in the log of r27926 but i also changed some splash() into splashf()
00:02:35*gevaerts isn't sure if he likes data aborts
00:03:44 Join Dreamxtreme [0] (~Dreamxtre@
00:03:44CIA-81r27930 build result: All green
00:05:57funmanhmm folder properties say: "Size: lld" :?
00:06:43funmanah we don't handle long long in format.c
00:08:36 Quit hebz0rl (Quit: Ex-Chat)
00:09:21 Quit ender` (Quit: I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me. -- Noel Coward)
00:10:37 Join captainkewllllll [0] (
00:14:16 Join docgnome [0] (~docgnome@
00:15:19docgnomeanyone have a sansa e280? I'm wondering if i can put a 16 or 32gb microSD into it
00:15:27funmanyou can
00:15:31docgnomerock on
00:15:39docgnomei'm really thinking about getting one
00:15:52 Quit captainkewllllll (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch -
00:16:11docgnomeneed to replace my old archos jukebox studio 20 with the 20gb laptop harddrive that weighs a ton and only has a half working screen heh
00:16:29CIA-81New commit by funman (r27931): Fix r27923: folder size displayed "lld" in properties ...
00:16:48gevaertsdocgnome: you might be disappointed by the sound quality of the e200
00:16:57funmane200v2 is ok i think
00:17:10docgnomei need something big and cheap that runs rockbox heh
00:17:11gevaertsright, v2 might be ok
00:17:22docgnomee280 isn't any good though? :-\
00:18:11docgnomewhat would you recommend instead?
00:18:17CIA-81r27931 build result: All green
00:18:59gevaertsActually, as funman said, the v2s are a lot better than the v1s
00:19:17docgnomehow do i tell what one it is hhe
00:19:22docgnomeis what i'm looking at
00:19:48gevaertshm, also, wasn't the studio audio quality a bit less than the recorder?
00:19:55bertrikwaaaay too expensive
00:20:04docgnomebertrik: not the referbs
00:20:19docgnomethe new one, yeah. no way i'm paying 200 bucks for that heh
00:20:36docgnomebut 60 bucks...
00:20:50docgnomei never really noticed a problem with the archos studio
00:20:51Bagdergevaerts: it was, yes
00:20:57docgnomejust that it was like 600lbs ;-p
00:21:09docgnometotal pain to pack around
00:21:36funmanclipv1/clip+ are ok too
00:22:00gevaertsdocgnome: these days a v2 is reasonably likely I think. Maybe look into your options of sending it back for a refund if you're not happy with it?
00:22:01funmanperhaps you have more chances to see a fuze in a store ?
00:23:42gevaertsRight, and you might actually be able to find a new fuze for the same price as a refurbished e200
00:24:00funman < they sell them online (no fuze+ yet)
00:24:30AlexPclip+ 8 gb is cheap too - about €40 IIRC
00:24:39kaiscenerefurbished 8gb fuzes can be had for $40.
00:25:31docgnomesold out
00:25:46gevaertsThe only thing to watch out for with the clip+ is that it's not that hard to confuse with the clip, and the latter doesn't have the microSD slot
00:26:51gevaertsdocgnome: maybe, but amazon lists some at $46 or so.
00:27:05docgnomelooks like the biggest clip+ is 4g
00:27:09gevaertsThey're definitely not hard to find
00:27:43docgnomeand the fuze is better than the e280?
00:27:50funmangevaerts: the design is clearly different (square buttons on the clip+, round on the clip), but i agree it's better to pay attention
00:28:05docgnomewow it's smaller
00:28:09AlexPhmmm, maybe I meant 4 GB
00:28:17AlexPthe clip/+ is tiny
00:28:39*gevaerts is an 8GB
00:28:46funmandocgnome: the fuze is basically a e200 with lcd landscape and not portrait, which makes it wider. It's also thicker and the battery isn't repleacable
00:28:52docgnomeah. i just looked on newegg
00:28:55AlexPdocgnome: No, 8 GB is available:
00:29:08AlexPI didn't search US sites, but usually £ = $ :/
00:29:09docgnomefunman: huh. doesn't sound better then heh.
00:29:31gevaertsdocgnome: an e200*v2*
00:29:52gevaertsIt's really the old e200s that have less than perfect sound quality
00:30:02docgnomeso a fuze would be fine
00:30:12docgnomeand both versions run rockbox
00:30:20docgnomehah. nice
00:31:08gevaertsThere are rumours about a fuze plus. That one doesn't run rockbox (yet, until funman gets his hands on one), but I'm not sure if they're actually available yet
00:31:22docgnomei love rockbox
00:31:46docgnomedoesn't really help on my archos much though. I really wanna play ogg vorbis but the stupid brick doesn't have a powerful enough chip to handle it
00:32:17docgnomethough the standard interface on that thing was terrible
00:33:31docgnomehrm... is the battery not replaceable in the fuze at all or not with out pulling the whole thing apart
00:34:01gevaertsDon't complain about the bad UI in the Studio! Without it, there would be no rockbox!
00:34:04AlexPvirtually none are
00:34:12AlexPonly the e200 and c200 that I know of
00:34:20docgnomewhy do they do that
00:34:31AlexPmost peo
00:34:42AlexPple never want to, makes it easier/cheaper
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00:34:58docgnomeyeah i guess but when your battery dies you have to chuck it in the bin and buy a new one
00:35:03AlexPAt least they generally aren't sldered in
00:35:09AlexPYou just have to unscrew the player
00:35:21docgnomeoh, you mean it's just inside the thin
00:35:23AlexPMost are very easy to change, they just aren't "user replaceable"
00:35:48AlexPI don't know about the fuze specifically
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00:38:32docgnomei think the only thing that would make me like rockbox more is if it made media player dispense gold coins ;-p
00:40:17AlexPheh :)
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00:47:53saratogaFWIW the e200v1 is still one of my favorite players
00:48:17saratogavery stable port, long battery life
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01:00:00docgnomeordered a fuze :-)
01:00:13docgnomethanks for the help
01:08:18seaniA bit late to the conversation, but I scored for a Clip+ a few days ago. First encounter with an OLED screen up close and even tiny and 2 colour, it's a leap ahead
01:08:44seaniAnd RockBox signifcantly improves it (although it wasn't *bad* to begin with)
01:11:56CIA-81New commit by funman (r27932): archos player debug menu: factorize and use lcd_putsf
01:12:01CIA-81New commit by funman (r27933): output_dyn_value() : don't use strlen() to check string emptiness
01:12:05CIA-81New commit by funman (r27934): jz4740 debug: use lcd_putsf() instead of redefining it
01:12:14CIA-81New commit by funman (r27935): firmware/ : use lcd_putsf() (only in debug code) ...
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01:13:40CIA-81r27932 build result: All green
01:14:12funmannice delta \o/
01:15:24CIA-81r27935 build result: All green
01:17:12funmanwhy the delta isn't consistent across all the ondas?
01:17:27funmancould it be because 'line++' is passed as parameter?
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03:02:03leavittx_my plugin is causing *PANIC* Stkov main!
03:02:17leavittx_what does that mean?
03:02:36leavittx_where am i wrong?
03:03:25S_a_i_n_tit means you're overflowing the main stack....somehow.
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03:04:50leavittx_so i need use less static memory allocations?
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03:18:58saratogaleavittx_: static variables go on the heap, not stack so they'll be ok
03:19:17saratogamost likely you've just put a large array as a local variable, or are recursively calling a lot of functions
03:19:26saratogaeither will consume stack memory and eventually crash
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03:20:49saratogaactually i'm not sure how static is allocated in rockbox, so that might be wrong
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06:05:03Icar0_somebody online ?
06:05:59krazykitprobably. do you have a question?
06:16:42Icar0_im searching a firmware for a Zipy Parrot
06:18:12krazykitrockbox doesn't support birds, so this isn't the right place to look
06:18:16Icar0_i know your community are developing a generic firmware and i wanna know if you have any info about zipy's mp4 firmware
06:18:33saratogayou can search but I doubt it
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06:19:15Icar0_i didnt find anything about zipy products
06:19:27Icar0_thanks 4 the info
06:19:30Icar0_good night
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07:35:48S_a_i_n_tWould anyone object to me alphabetising the context menus/any other menus I can find that seem out of place.
07:36:38S_a_i_n_tthey seem to be just organised by "what was added last goes at the bottom".
07:38:05*S_a_i_n_t lols at Zipy Parrot
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08:07:05S_a_i_n_taaaargh!! when you bring up the context menu on a file, and chose "Open With...", where is the order of the viewers displayed defined? 0_o
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08:20:50S_a_i_n_tIs anyone familiar with the menu code enough to tell me where I might find how the entries for "context menu - Open With///" are ordered?
08:26:10saratogatheres a text file with the ordering IIRC
08:27:16S_a_i_n_tthat defines the ordering? huh...
08:27:19S_a_i_n_tI was way off.
08:27:56S_a_i_n_tI was looking at apps/plugins.subdirs and apps/plugins/sources.
08:29:28S_a_i_n_terrr...viewers.config doesn't seem to be what I'm looking for.
08:30:24S_a_i_n_tthat only decides what icon and extension a viewer is given/can open IIUC
08:31:49saratogar27289 worked fine for me . ..
08:32:10S_a_i_n_tIn what way...?
08:33:12S_a_i_n_tAs I said, as far as I know, viewers.config is only used to define the icontype for a viewer and what extensions it should be used for.
08:33:33S_a_i_n_tthe listing I'm seeing is differently sorted from my viewers,config file.
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11:29:37minushello, i just installed the SVN version of rockbox on my sansa fuzev1 and tried the new USB driver with HID and it works great. is there any way to modifythe key mappings/add one?
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11:33:23n1sif you edit the source and compile your own build, sure
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11:34:34minusi hoped not having to do that, but thanks
11:38:28pixelmais someone around who used to play sudoku on a colour target with the old and new colour scheme (a bit more often, preferably regularly)?
11:44:19*pixelma would like to know if she's the only one having trouble with the new one - on a c200 though and knowing that this colour display is not quite representative
11:45:25minusi can quickly check on my fuzev1 if you want
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11:49:40pixelmaminus: they were different before so you can't compare.... It's probably still interesting to hear an opinion
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11:53:47minussome colors look very much alike, other than that it looks good to me
11:55:04pixelmawhich ones like quite alike? Maybe I can find a "compromise"
11:57:06minus3,7 and 1,9 and maybe 2,4 aswell
11:58:33[Saint]wow...on iPod Nano those colours couldn't be more different
11:58:41[Saint]and I'm colourblind! ;)
11:58:49bertrikn1s, I'm not familiar with the file viewer part of rockbox, but the basic idea of FS #9043 looks good to me
11:59:18[Saint]bertrik: I'm just working on it now ;) Adding more filetypes...looks good to me also.
11:59:30[Saint]thanks for that, just what I was looking for.
11:59:55bertrikthe diff to filetypes.c actually still applies :) just the viewers.config part has some failing hunks
11:59:57minusa hex viewer would be awesome ;)
12:00:07n1sbertrik: yes, only thing i don't like is that it reuses the file view setting for changing this behaviour
12:00:58pixelmaok, thanks. 3 and 7 are the ones I have the biggest problem to tell apart on the c200 as well. 1 and 9... I have more problems with 1 and 5... 2 and 4 are easy to tell apart but not quite visible on the white background. But as I said the c200's display is not very good and differetn
12:01:59[Saint]that patch is a really good idea, and hasn't even got one comment...sat there for 2 years. :/
12:02:28[Saint]I've often wondered why I'm given the opportunity to open files with a viewer that can't actually open that .ext
12:03:06pixelmaunfortunately all the screenshots in the manuals show the non-coloured version
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13:18:49[Saint]I added a bunch of stuff to the viewers.config file for that ok.
13:19:12[Saint]"that patch" == FS #9043
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13:20:34gevaertsHaving "show all plugins" tied to "show all files" seems a bit strange to me
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13:22:07[Saint]Its just that it'll only let you select a viewer for a filetype it doesn't support if "show all files" is on.
13:22:35[Saint]It is a bit weird though, I shouldn;t ever be able to open the wrong filetype with ht ewrong viewer/app/plugin
13:22:55*gevaerts disagrees
13:23:11gevaertsCan you predict which weird extensions people will use for text files?
13:23:12[Saint]what's the use case for that?
13:23:31gevaertsThings like e.g. .wps
13:24:10[Saint]I just added wps and .sbs .fms etc to viewers.config to let it be opened by the test editor actually ;)
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13:25:11gevaertsIt's not unreasonable to restrict the list of plugins by default, I just don't understand what this has to do with "show all files"
13:25:15minus.conf .cnf .ini .php .phps .py .lua .log and much much more
13:25:27gevaertsIf it uses a setting, it should be a separate setting
13:25:44minustext editor should probably show up for all extensions
13:26:05[Saint]minus: That's a little overboard.
13:26:27[Saint]there's many an extension where text editor would be totally useless
13:26:42gevaertsThere are many file types where text editor would be totally useless
13:26:49minusmake it an hex editor aswell and it's useful for all files
13:27:04gevaertsThis is really the basic issue. Extensions and file types are not the same thing, unfortunately
13:27:40minustry to read the mimetype then? doesnt sound like a too good idea
13:27:54gevaertsWhat mimetype?
13:28:13gevaertsThese are *files*, not attachments or other things that come with headers
13:28:43gevaertsThere's really no good solution for this. I like the idea of the patch, I just don't like the idea of using an unrelated setting for it
13:29:21minusi meant like magic bytes
13:30:04gevaertsah, so not mime type at all :)
13:30:11gevaertsToo heavyweight I think
13:30:17minusyeah, think so too
13:34:16[Saint]n1s: bertrik: <&minus;&minus; I organised/added more filetypes to FS #9043, made it easier to add more filetypes, also.
13:35:00bertrikyou can add that to the FS task if you want
13:35:45n1ssomeone did sort that list and then reverted the change not too long ago, i don't know what the problem was tho
13:35:55[Saint]gevaerts suggestion about it having a totally seperate menu option for it, as opposed to "Show All" in the filetypes is totally valid...but, a little beyond me.
13:38:20n1sdoes it even need a setting?
13:38:57[Saint]I guess not...but, then the viewers.config needs to be a LOT more comprehensive.
13:39:04n1shmm, or do you mean a separate list of viewres that incudes all of them?
13:39:53[Saint]unknown filetypes are, it should work out.
13:41:40preglowbertrik: answered yer mail, feel free to ask if there's more you want to know
13:42:41bertrikpreglow, thanks
13:43:13bertrikI do plan to make the delay configurable, to my ears it has a much more dramatic effect than the HF attenuation for example
13:43:35preglowyeah, it's probably pretty important
13:43:46preglowbut the delay does not corrspond directly to the inter-ear distance
13:43:55preglowit is based on having speakers put in front of you at some angle
13:44:48 Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
13:45:55[Saint]I added that patch to, if anyone wants to keep adding supported filetypes to it...go nuts :D
13:48:42bertrikpreglow, do you have a reference to the original algorithm that crossfeed is based on?
13:49:33preglownaw, but a crossfeed is pretty much a crossfeed, it models a direct path from speakers to ears, then a cross path from each speaker to each other ear, and that part is what includes delay and attenuation
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13:50:22preglowi do have some mails from the dude who designed some place, tho
13:51:52preglowseems i lost them
13:52:18bertrikok, no problem
13:53:06bertrikI'm a little scared of having to change the asm code when updating the crossfeed algorithm
13:53:31preglowyou probably should be, you need to do some reloads here and there, there's absolutely no registers left for new data
13:54:06preglowhad to struggle a bit to fit everything in
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13:56:25 Join Lear [0] (chatzilla@rockbox/developer/lear)
13:56:30bertrikfor arm the delay length is already in a register, just need to assign it from the crossfeed struct instead of using a fixed value, no idea yet how hard it will be for cf
13:57:06preglowthink i hard code a subtract or smth for cf
13:57:08preglowcan't really remember
13:58:31preglowmyeah, it's in the lea offset
13:58:44preglow-104/4 = -26 = 13/2 (stereo)
13:59:34preglowthis number would also be dependent on the sample rate, btw, does rockbox change sample rate on the fly on any targets yet? i assume it's a n
14:00:04bertriknot as far as I know
14:00:20bertrikIIRC all filter calculation even assume a fixed rate of 44100 Hz
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14:00:49preglowyeah, they do
14:00:56preglowguess no one got around to that then
14:01:33bertrikNATIVE_FREQUENCY rather, but I guess it's 44100 for all targets anyway
14:02:07preglowbut yeah, that delay time would have to be fetched from mem each iteration
14:02:10preglownot too bad, i guess
14:03:12preglowthe arm asm version hard codes the delay everywhere
14:03:18preglowit'll actually be far worse to fox than the cf one
14:03:22preglowfix, even
14:06:18bertrikI'll post a patch with crossfeed done in C first, so people can see if they like it anyway before putting effort in the asm
14:06:34preglowi'm starting to have a feeling these loops can be tightened up a bit anyway
14:06:42preglowi'll have a look some day
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14:26:05JdGordon1how do i configure RaaA to crosscompile sdl for arm?
14:29:37CIA-81New commit by learman (r27936): As of r27902, codecs and plugins need to be marked as executable to work in the UI simulator on Windows.
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14:30:43gevaertshuh? "marked as executable" and "windows"?
14:31:22kugelJdGordon1: you need to edit the makefile (or configure) a bit
14:31:45kugelbut you need a complete cross compiler environment, the rockbox cross compiler aren't enough
14:31:48CIA-81r27936 build result: All green
14:31:53JdGordon1it looks like it might accpt tje CROSS_COMPILE env var?
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14:33:44Leargevaerts: The executable bit needs to be set, yes. It fails with an "access denied" otherwise.
14:33:52JdGordon1are there instructions for building sdldev for cross dev?
14:34:27gevaertsLear: oh, wait, cygwin?
14:34:48gevaertsah, ok. That makes more sense :)
14:34:49kugelJdGordon1: I did it once, and just copied the headers and .so from the sdl armel .deb packages
14:35:12gevaertssdl cross building isn't too hard IIRC
14:35:47JdGordon1did what?
14:35:56kugelcross compile the sdl app
14:36:25gevaertsIf you have the compiler in your path, properly named, just run " ./configure &minus;&minus;host=<your-target-arch> &minus;&minus;build=<your-builder-arch> &minus;&minus;prefix <wherever you want the stuff>"
14:36:25kugelI had it running on my mini2440 on the devcon. unfortunately the touchscreen didn't work correctly
14:36:29JdGordon1im installing build-essential on the mini2440 just incase that ends up being easier :)
14:36:42JdGordon1ta gevaerts
14:37:45gevaertstarget arch is probably something like arm-linux-gnu, builder arch is x86_64-linux-gnu or i686-linux-gnu
14:38:14JdGordon1target is the compiler prefix?
14:39:10gevaertsThis assumes properly set up cross compilers of course
14:41:49kugelLear: I'm wondering why it wasn't needed before?
14:42:34Learkugel: It always wrote it out to the temp DLL file, setting the needed bit.
14:42:47kugelnot for plugins IIRC
14:45:08JdGordon1CROSS_COMPILE didnt work :/ but it did pick up the right sdl
14:46:36Learkugel: Doesn't look like it, no. But I tried a plugin without my change, and I got the same error as I got for codecs.
14:47:30kugelJdGordon1: CROSS_COMPILE seems to work here
14:47:42JdGordon1maybe i typod then :
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14:48:09bertrikhm, odd, my clip+ boots to rockbox when plugging in USB, instead of to the OF
14:48:22kugelLear: sim_plugin_load() was really just a libdl wrapper without a temp dl
14:48:42JdGordon1bah, yep
14:48:43JdGordon1/home/jonno/mini2440/arm-2008q3/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.3.2/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: warning: library search path "/usr/local/libsdl-arm/lib" is unsafe for cross-compilation
14:48:43JdGordon1/usr/local/libsdl-arm/lib/ file not recognized: File format not recognized
14:49:29bertrikthis could be a bug related to how USB interrupts are cleared (or not cleared)
14:52:14kugelJdGordon1: can you readelf (with arm-none-linux-gnueabi-readelf) that .so file? if not then cross compilation of sdl probably failed
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14:54:13JdGordon1on the host or device?
14:54:25kugelhm, readelf works on foreign files so it's probably not a good measure
14:54:30*JdGordon1 is getting confused
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14:55:00JdGordon1yeah cross compile didnt work.. readelf says its amd64
14:55:06JdGordon1Machine: Advanced Micro Devices X86-64
14:56:55JdGordon1./configure &minus;&minus;host=x86_64-linux-gnu &minus;&minus;prefix=/usr/local/libsdl-arm &minus;&minus;target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi is the line i used
14:57:10gevaertsah, that's wrong
14:57:19gevaertshost is the target
14:57:40JdGordon1blast! :p
14:57:41gevaertsTry just " ./configure &minus;&minus;host=arm-none-linux-gnueabi &minus;&minus;prefix=/usr/local/libsdl-arm"
14:57:57gevaertsThe &minus;&minus;build I mentioned earlier *shouldn't* be needed
14:57:58kugelsetting CROSS_COMPILE might help as well
14:58:09gevaertsoh, wait
14:58:16gevaertsno, don't wait
14:59:45JdGordon1doing sudo make install: "./libtool: line 990: arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc: command not found"
15:00:56Torneis there a difference between MEM and MEMORYSIZE?
15:01:04Tornethey seem to get used arbitrarily
15:01:06gevaertshm, maybe sudo is set up to clear PATH?
15:01:06*kugel thinks downloading the prebuild .debs for sdl is easier
15:01:44gevaertsJdGordon1: sudo chown <your-user-id> /usr/local/libsdl-arm, and run make install without sudo :)
15:02:25JdGordon1./src/audio/dma/SDL_dmaaudio.c:166: error: impossible constraint in 'asm' :/
15:02:36JdGordon1kugel: well yes, but that isnt a good permenant solution
15:03:33kugelit's acceptable for cross compiling IMO, you're not using that files, they're only there for linking
15:04:46JdGordon1well.. still not nice :) how do i extract the .deb?
15:04:50gevaertsIt's *acceptable* of course, but in my experience in the long run that sort of solution always tends to get interesting issues
15:05:12kugelalso if that .debs have the same files as on your target system (i.e. if you install the lib from apt-get there too) then it's actually better than compiling on your own
15:05:56kugel.debs are just renamed .zips IIUC, so unzip (I always use file-roller)
15:06:07gevaertsuh, no, they aren't :)
15:06:24gevaertsThey're ar files, containing tar.gz (or bz2 these days) files
15:06:27Tornedebs are ar archives, one component of which is a tarball which contains the files in the package
15:06:53gevaertsThe proper way is dpkg-deb -x
15:07:12*kugel stands corrected
15:07:31Tornewhat's the earliest point you can call panicf() and expect it to actually display the message visibly? presumably not until after lcd init
15:07:48Tornetrying to decide where to put the ramsize stuff for ipodvideo
15:08:19gevaertsI'd say just after lcd init
15:09:13kugelpossibly even before if the lcd initialized sufficiently by the bootloader
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15:09:25Tornewell, i guess it doesn't have to be as early as possible
15:09:31Tornebut before anything would've used the second half of ram
15:09:54Tornehm, related: should we do anything if the 32MB build is run on a 64MB player?
15:10:03gevaertshm, actually... Isn't the codec buffer near the end of RAM? Why can people play some files at all?
15:10:12Tornegevaerts: because the RAM is mirrored
15:10:18Torneso the codec works until buffering overwrites the codec
15:10:21gevaertsah, right
15:11:25gevaertsI think 32MB on 64MB can be ignored
15:11:35Tornei thought it might be nice to let the user know somehow
15:11:44Torneso they can switch build..
15:12:22Tornebut having it panic would be annoying
15:12:32Torneand i guess a splash on boot would get annoying if you were doing it on purpose
15:12:36gevaertsIt would be, but there's a fine line between being helpful and being annoying
15:12:48JdGordonput it in the rockbox info screen
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15:13:38gevaertsIf RAM is mirrored, and plugins and codecs work fine because of this as long as the audio buffer doesn't overwrite them, why can't we just set the end of the audio buffer?
15:13:48Tornegevaerts: *jawdrop*
15:13:54Tornethat's.. actually a really good idea )
15:14:45TorneIt might go horribly wrong if the boundaries there aren't cacheline aligned
15:14:48Tornebut other than that it should work
15:15:09gevaertswhich boundaries? The beginning of the codec buffer?
15:15:28gevaertsThey're aligned to 512K right now, so that should be fine :)
15:15:35kugelI think it's pretty safe to assume they're cache aligned
15:16:14JdGordonkugel: do you still have your sdl cross comiplers?
15:16:15Torneok, that sounds like a plan then
15:16:26kugelJdGordon: yes
15:16:27Tornethough there is one other difference between the 32mb and 64mb builds: the battery capacity params
15:16:43JdGordoncan you do me a sdl build for the mini2440? see if it works?
15:16:52gevaertsSo all you'd need to do is subtract 32MB from audiobufend if you detect a 32MB board
15:17:00Tornegevaerts: right
15:17:08kugelcan we have a single ipod video build with that?
15:17:13gevaertsTorne: we're not going to let that one stop us from unifying the builds, are we? :)
15:17:27Tornegevaerts: no, i just mean we'll have to set the default more cleverly ;)
15:17:40Tornekugel: yes
15:17:45Tornekugel: in theory
15:18:12kugelJdGordon: you want sdl or the sdl app?
15:18:58gevaertskugel: unless we're overlooking something
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15:19:51n1sthe iaudio m5 and x5 exist in versions with larger batteries too
15:20:18CIA-81New commit by torne (r27937): ipodvideo: detect ram size at boot (doesn't actually get USED yet) ...
15:20:27n1sbut if you really want to cound't the default capacity be inferred from the memorysize detection?
15:20:34Tornen1s: yes
15:20:46Tornei only brought it up because someone will have to actually *do* that ;)
15:20:54Torneit's not hard
15:21:26Tornethere's the ramsize detection code, anyway
15:21:30Torneif someone wants to try this
15:21:43Tornei can't do it right now, but maybe later if nobody else does it first :)
15:22:00CIA-81r27937 build result: All green
15:23:04gevaertsI'm having a go at reducing the audio buffer if you detect 32MB
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15:24:45Tornethe LTC4066 ISTAT reading is scaled differently as well
15:24:53n1sTorne: wow, that is a very elegant detection :)
15:26:50 Quit Jennifur (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
15:27:11Tornen1s: thanks ;)
15:27:24TorneThe ata workaround code is also partially ifdef#ed for mem==64
15:27:25Tornenot sure why
15:27:30Torneit does something different with locking?
15:28:15Tornen1s: it's really easy if you do it before teh cache/remap stuff is set up, it's all just the obvious bus wiring at that stage )
15:30:00gevaertsWhy is audiobufend declared as an array?
15:31:11Tornebecause it's from a linker script, no?
15:31:11Tornemeans you don't have to write &audiobufend
15:31:11gevaertsSlightly annoying since I have to change it...
15:31:11Tornebut that also means you can't subtract anything from it
15:31:16Tornesicne it's a symbol, not a variable
15:31:36kugel#define audiobufend (audiobufend-32<<20)?
15:31:52Tornekugel: not at runtime, no :)
15:32:00gevaertsOK, but I could do audiobufend_lds[] for the linker, and then *audiobuffend = audiobufend_lds elsewhere
15:32:07Tornegevaerts: yeah
15:32:22gevaertsMaybe not the cleanest, but I just want to test the general idea
15:32:22kugelTorne: that's not possible?
15:32:32Tornekugel: i mean, you can
15:32:40Tornekugel: i mean, you can't #define it or not based on something detected at runtime
15:33:28kugelah right I see what you mean
15:33:40Tornea variable has to be involved at some stage :)
15:35:09Torneyou could #define audiobufend (audiobufend-audiobufunusable) or something, though, then you don't have to change the linker scripts and it will only affect ipodvideo ;)
15:35:24Tornewhere audiobufunusable gets set to 0 for 64mb devices
15:35:44gevaertsThat will have a runtime speed cost
15:35:50gevaertsi.e. battery life :)
15:39:03gevaertsAny 64MB ipod owners willing to test gevaerts/"> ?
15:39:13gevaertsMainly check if it uses the full 64MB
15:44:06S_a_i_n_tbertrik: I'll write something more detailed later on...but FS #11577 seems all good to me.
15:44:27S_a_i_n_tHard to discern an audible difference, but, there deffinitely is one ;)
15:46:08bertrikthere is a bit of delay between changing the setting and actually hearing it (up to a few seconds)
15:46:27S_a_i_n_tyes, I noticed that....same as the EQ
15:46:56S_a_i_n_t(well, Nano1~2G EQ...all I can talk about)
15:48:31CIA-81New commit by learman (r27938): Make M4A demuxer more flexible when handling the stsd atom. Allows file reported in the forum to play.
15:48:39gevaertsAt first sight this 64MB build works fine on my 32MB board
15:50:24CIA-81r27938 build result: All green
15:50:30gevaertsThis different locking is really weird. 32MB builds work fine on 64MB boards, so why is it needed?
15:52:19bertrikThe idea of this memory detection thing is to eventually have a unified build for both sizes?
15:53:02gevaertsWell, the original idea was to at least warn people if the build they installed isn't going to work
15:53:49gevaertsBut this audiobufend hack seems to actually work, so a build with FS #11580 actually should work optimally on both
15:56:35n1sgevaerts: that ata hack was removed and then reinstated so i suppose removal caused some problem
15:56:57gevaertsn1s: then I suspect it should be there for all builds, not just 64MB
15:57:50pixelmawasn't there also something about plugins?
15:57:58*pixelma could be misremembering
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15:59:36gevaertspixelma: that was the idea yes, but it seems that we all overlooked something simple for ages: due to RAM being mirrored in the second 32MB on a 64MB build, plugins work fine everywhere with a 64MB build, as long as they aren't overwritten by audio data
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15:59:56gevaertsSo all we (apparently) need to do is make sure that that doesn't happen, which is quite simple
16:00:01n1sgevaerts: yes, from reading the commit messages it seems tied to the 80GB disk
16:01:18gevaertsjhMikeS: ping
16:02:14gevaertsjhMikeS: since you touched this last, do you know why the changes in r17682 are only for 64MB?
16:05:18gevaertsright, r17071 says "iPod Video 30Gig doesn't seem to need the ata locking hack so we'll just attempt to remove it for this one. Works for me on 5.5g"
16:05:40gevaertsAnd that one adds the "MEM == 64" condition
16:06:29Tornewhich disks actually have the large sector? just the 80GB?
16:06:36gevaertsI think so, yes
16:07:19Tornethat condition seems weird then
16:07:37Torneif that was the case then it'd be better to only set MAX_PHYS_SECTOR_SIZE in the first place on the 64mb build, no?
16:07:57Tornei can't see how the locking thing can be independant of large sectors
16:08:02gevaertsWell yes, *if* people didn't swap boards all the time
16:08:10Torneeither locking is needed with large sectors, or it's nott
16:08:32*gevaerts agrees
16:08:57Tornethe safe thing to do is assume it is, and just kill that condition..
16:09:32gevaertsrbutil has installed 32MB builds on any ipod video for a long time. I can't remember people reporting issues
16:09:56gevaertsUnless some of those weird unreproducible things like that dircache complaint are related...
16:09:56Tornemaybe it's rare enough that we don't realise that's what the problem is? :)
16:10:13Tornei'm not sure what the effect of the locking stuff is
16:10:50gevaertsI'm pretty sure that if it's needed, it's harmless (except probably for some overhead) on normal disks
16:11:05Tornewell yes, that should certainly be true
16:12:43n1sonly one mutex_lock() call is conditional on MAX_PHYS_SIZE the rest of the locking is thwe same but the hack just replaces the mutex implementation with a different one
16:13:51gevaertsFS #8568 is involved
16:14:46gevaertsok, "longer loading times". That would explain some things...
16:15:11*gevaerts votes to remove the MEM==64 condition
16:16:23Torneso this is a temporary workaround for something or other that we've had for two and a half years? :)
16:16:38n1si agree with that but would also like to hear what jhMikeS thinks
16:16:53n1sTorne: yep :)
16:17:13Torneso the workaround is to improve performance, not correctness, it seems
16:17:16gevaertshm, why did my ipod suddenly stop playing?
16:18:19Torneif it's safe both ways (which i guess it should be, it's locking either way) then the buffering performance should be easy to test
16:18:36Tornethough pp502x uses DMA for most buffering now, which might make it odd
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16:21:27gevaertsBut yes, it should be easy to test by someone who has the right drive
16:21:43Tornei have an 80gb with large sectors
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16:22:13*gevaerts knows :)
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16:28:52[Saint]Hmmm....SVN Nano2G Bootloader seems broken.
16:30:33 Nick [Saint] is now known as S_a_i_n_t (S_a_i_n_t@
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16:53:08*[Saint] wonders if he can kludge together a check on startup to check if "button X" is held, and load a specific .cfg file if so...
16:54:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:54:50[Saint]AH, question: Is there a way to build all .voice files?
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17:13:23S_a_i_n_tIs there a way to take a screenshot with the themeeditor?
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17:21:51AL|ENi'm looking for a Denis Stanishevskiy
17:22:08AL|ENhe is oneof contribution to rockbox
17:22:12AL|ENany active email
17:22:15AL|ENot im ?
17:22:22AL|ENcan somone help me fint it ?
17:23:38gevaertsAL|EN: he submitted one patch in 2007. I doubt if anyone here can help you
17:24:50AL|ENok thx
17:24:56 Part AL|EN ("I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here:")
17:25:42gevaertsamiconn: do you see anything fundamentally wrong with the idea of (ab)using memory mirroring on ipod video as done in FS #11580 ?
17:32:45fiphi 1st time here- pacbox seems to broken on x5l, anyone experienced the same problem?
17:33:45fipworking on the sim, on the x5l it blanks out after the rom startup garbled screen
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17:34:58pixelmafip: which version of Rockbox are you running exactly?
17:37:43fiplatest svn
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17:41:10pixelmacould you try the 3.6 release version (just to narrow it down a bit, I don't have an X5)?
17:41:20preglowhow's the cygwin dev env doing these days? is it up to date?
17:41:46 Quit leavittx_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
17:42:22pixelmapreglow: I think you need to build the arm-eabi toolchain yourself (or I misunderstood the question)
17:42:41preglownah, sounds like you understood perfectly :>
17:43:05pixelmaand have patience... ;)
17:43:14preglownot in the mood for it, heh
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17:43:27preglowthink i'll ditch the direct windows route for development
17:45:33fipvanilla 3.6 is working ok
17:49:46*amiconn grumbles about funman
17:52:44amiconngevaerts: This is clever...
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17:58:17fipto be sure I have also tried a clean install of current build from the website, with clean settings - also not working
18:02:22pixelmahmm, seems to be a bug then. I'm currently compiling a build for my M5 (similar to the X5 but with a greyscale display) to see if the bug shows there too. The revision it's running now worked ok but is a bit over 2 weeks old
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18:25:21funmanamiconn grumbles about funman
18:25:43funmanif you have a question just ask
18:27:34pixelmasomething about functions in the plugin API and some min version bump...
18:31:30funmanah right i forgot that one needs to be bumped
18:31:59funmanamiconn: instead of wasting my time and grumbling next time just fix it
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18:32:49pixelmawell, you waste his time too if he runs into trouble due to that...
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18:42:10*preglow wonders if there's any point in keeping the original fwpatcher code in svn anymore
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18:43:13CIA-81New commit by Buschel (r27939): Clean up alac/acc demux structure on next track. Solves issues with some files only being playable on direct selection, but not if switched to via ...
18:43:40pixelmathe pacbox error also shows on my M5 so I guess it's some general coldfire or even general plugin problem (remembering the reports in the forums about pictureflow and seeing that mpegplayer crashes on my M5 too)
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18:45:13CIA-81r27939 build result: 315 errors, 46 warnings (Buschel committed)
18:46:07CIA-81New commit by Buschel (r27940): Fix red.
18:47:42CIA-81r27940 build result: All green
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18:52:06pixelma"I04: IllInstr at 1000C000" if I read the map file correctly it's something to do with IRAM? Quote from the map: "IRAM 0x10000000 0x0000c000"
18:52:33preglowthat's iram, yeah
18:52:42preglowat the very end of it, anyway
18:53:34preglowmaybe the code section of the iram isn't getting copied properly?
18:54:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:55:42pixelmaI have no idea, the only thing I could do is bisecting from the version that worked (at least for the pacbox part, hadn't tried mpegplayer with that one and the address is from the crash there, pacbox just freezes)
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18:59:06fiphmm, I see mpegplayer is broken here too..
19:01:17pixelmadoesn't surprise me much as the M5 is very similar except for the display (but same CPU etc.). I'd be curious to hear about the Iriver H100 or H300 (might need a paper clip though)
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19:23:40fip27861 is working fine...
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19:28:41n1spixelma: might be something to do with the recent plugin startup code changes
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19:41:38balintxIt is funny
19:41:58balintxFixed typo, but below there is another typo :D
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19:45:08n1sbalintx: if you start looking for typos in comments, you are going to find lots of them
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19:46:10balintxI did not go, but I tought it is lol if anyone have time to fix typo in comment, and one line below the fix there is another typo.
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19:46:40fip27902 has the pacbox&mpegplayer problem..
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19:49:11pixelma27830 doesn't
19:49:54pixelmaso yeah, the recent plugin start changes are likely to blame (but I'd go on testing anyway)
19:55:27fip27899 is working allright - 27901 reverts 27900, so it must be 27902..
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20:00:04balintxTheme Editor is not available yet?
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20:05:00BuschelUnhelpful: you there?
20:06:30BuschelUnhelpful: Could you please check FS #11539 (aac distortions)? The heavy distortion were introduced with a change you did 8 months ago. Maybe you can spot the mistake...
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20:19:41pfuenderhi there! just recently got a sansa e260 and compared it to my cowon iAudio x5. Is it normal that the sound of my cowon is much(!) better? anyone experienced something similar?
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20:23:22balintxfound \o/
20:24:27n1spfuender: i think so, especially if it is an old v1 e200
20:27:08pfuendernls, yes, it's an old v1. ok, so sadly no hardware issue which could easily be solved ;-)
20:29:00saratogatheres some hiss when it buffers track
20:29:10saratogaotherwise its pretty similar to most other devices
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20:34:25fipgonna put in a bug report..
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20:45:19balintxhow do I change font size in wps? can I?
20:46:17kaisceneyou have to use specify a different font file
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20:49:04kaiscene look for the same font name, but with a different number in the file name. example: 10-Nimbus.fnt vs 14-Nimbus.fnt
20:50:30balintxthanks, and an other question if you could help
20:50:51balintx%sFilename %fn
20:50:51balintxFilename %s%fn
20:50:51DBUGEnqueued KICK balintx
20:51:27kaiscenenope. the %s can appear anywhere in the line
20:51:42balintx:/ thanks :)
20:52:00kaiscenepeople put it at the beginning to make it clear the line is scrollable. it's it hidden in the middle, its easy to overlook
20:52:09kaisceneif it's*
20:54:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:55:45balintxThere is a bug in wiki page,
20:56:01balintxit refers to a link does not exists (
20:56:21n1sbalintx: it's a wiki ;)
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21:00:13CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:00:13*bluebrother guesses that this page did exist
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21:03:08CIA-81New commit by Buschel (r27941): Fix FS #11539. Undo r23967 and use another way to achieve results for negative exponents for pow(2,x). This solves heavy distortions on some aac ...
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21:05:11CIA-81r27941 build result: All green
21:11:13gevaertsamiconn: ok, so you're not seeing any obvious flaws with the general scheme?
21:12:49gevaertsbluebrother: If we want to merge the ipod video builds for 32mb and 64mb, can rbutil handle that, or do we need some interim measures like having two identical builds with different names?
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21:23:01gevaertsdomonoky: same question for you :) : If we want to merge the ipod video builds for 32mb and 64mb, can rbutil handle that, or do we need some interim measures like having two identical builds with different names?
21:27:13ChrononI have posted an updated patch at
21:27:15CIA-81New commit by Buschel (r27942): Restore libfaad's IRAM configuration.
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21:28:49CIA-81r27942 build result: All green
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21:50:19soapgevaerts, how long are you going to be accepting reports on the iPod Video unified build? I'll load it today but will be unable to report on issues until Friday.
21:50:52soapThough, I bet I can squeeze out a quick email if my cell amplifier actually works.
21:51:01gevaertssoap: depends on how many other reports I get I guess
21:51:29gevaertssoap: are you going to need the player to work reliably? I don't expect actual issues, but...
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21:52:55soapneed? No - I'll build something clean worse come to worst. I'm going to be _deep_ in West Virginia next week. Internet / cellular access will be spotty at best.
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21:59:12bluebrothergevaerts: Rockbox Utility tries to get different files for 32 and 64mb builds. However, updating it isn't much more than editing rbutil.ini and creating a new release :)
22:00:02 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:00:32gevaertsbluebrother: and you can remove that 64mb detection stuff again :)
22:00:43bluebrotherwould be great :)
22:00:58bluebrotherhow far is that unification away? I was a bit off the loop the last week
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22:01:14gevaertsIf nobody spots bugs, it's one commit away
22:01:29gevaertsSee FS #11580
22:01:35bluebrotherwow. Did it happen that fast or did I miss _that_ much?
22:01:57 Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (S_a_i_n_t@
22:02:16gevaertsI thought of a way a bit after 15:00 today
22:02:18UnhelpfulBuschel: uhoh! ;)
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22:03:03bluebrotherhmm. Wasn't there the problem that plugins load to the end of RAM?
22:03:35*bluebrother isn't sure if he understood how this thing works
22:04:05UnhelpfulBuschel: um, this seems to be about some files that won't play?
22:04:14gevaertsYes, but that's not actually a real problem, since on a 32MB model the RAM is mapped twice, so if you load them at 64MB - a bit, they also appear at 32MB - a bit
22:04:30gevaertsSo you only need to adjust the end of the audio buffer
22:04:32*bluebrother got it after thinking about it for a bit :)
22:04:47gevaertsIt's obvious in hindsight :)
22:04:50bluebrotherthat's a nice feature to address this issue ;-)
22:05:14BuschelUnhelpful: it plays now. but if you try to play this file with r27941 vs. r27940 there's quite a difference ;)
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22:08:04UnhelpfulBuschel: interesting. as i recall i verified that the fixed-point behavior matched what the float codec did, although it initially *hadn't*. perhaps it's not supposed to, and there's some reason it works anyway?
22:09:49BuschelUnhelpful: Not sure, but at least it works now.
22:16:24 Quit Jaykay (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
22:17:22Buschelgevaerts: the battery capacity and runtime estimation on iPod Video also depends on memory size (config/ipodvideo.h). Also, there are several other places where the memory size is checked (ata.c, debug_menu.c, thread-pp.c).
22:17:59gevaertsBuschel: ata.c and thread-pp.c *seem* to be wrong, since they really want to know about the sector-size challenged 80GB disk
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22:20:03gevaertsFor the battery capacity we can just use the full range for all. There are 60/80GB ipods around with 32MB and 30GB ones with 64MB...
22:20:10gevaertsSo we're already wrong on those
22:20:38gevaertsI'm not sure if I understand the one in debug_menu.c
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22:21:49Buschelgevaerts: ok for ata.c and threap-pp.c.but, the battery capacity's default is wrong then. debug_menu is using MEM as the current consumption needs to be calculated in a different way.
22:22:20gevaertsok, so that one needs to use probed_ramsize instead
22:23:52gevaertsThat seems to be the lot I think
22:24:03Buschelwe should also find a proper solution for the battery default (e.g. defining BAT_CAP_DEF_MEM32 and _MEM64 and using the correct default depending on probed_ramsize)
22:25:37gevaertsWe could, but on the other hand we don't do that (because we can't, admittedly) on X5(L) and M5(L), and there are again these refurbished models where that's not a good indication of the battery used
22:27:41BuschelHmm, need to think about that. Maybe I just don't want to drop things... Of course we could also just use the smaller battery as default for all units...
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22:30:43BuschelAnyway... Good job to get the both versions unified!
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22:42:46gevaertsI don't see a good easy way of making the default battery capacity runtime choosable...
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22:47:37n1sgevaerts: can't you #define BATTERY_CAPACITY_DEFAULT to a function call?
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22:48:51gevaertsn1s: that function call would then need to know the memory size, and BATTERY_CAPACITY_DEFAULT is used in a static initialiser. That seems tricky to get right
22:48:51gevaertsI suspect that setting it in powermgmt_init() might work
22:49:29gevaertsUnless the battery capacity is stored in nvram
22:49:38*gevaerts tries to find out if that is the case
22:52:17n1sdon't think so
22:52:26n1sabout the nvram that is
22:52:36gevaertsProbably not, but I want to be sure :)
22:53:22n1swell, i don't think that battery capacity thing should block this
22:53:37n1sif it turns out to be tricky to fix
22:54:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:56:25gevaertsI don't know how reliable the comments are, but the battery capacity setting is before the "End of old RTC config block" comment
22:57:56gevaertsSetting it in system-pp502x.c where probed_ramsize is set will work, but that seems Wrong
22:59:38pixelmahmm, so I guess that trick won't work to unify the Recorder and 8MB mod builds?
22:59:43n1sright, you could just use a global variable that is set before any settings code runs
22:59:48bluebrotherwhat's the problem with the battery capacity default? 64mb and 32mb using different values?
22:59:56n1sbluebrother: yes
23:00:35n1spixelma: it depends on how the sh cpu handles accesses "outside" of the memory
23:00:37gevaertsn1s: yes, that's why I hoped to set it in powermgmt_init(), but that's run after loading the nvram settings
23:01:37n1saha, AFAICT battery_capacity is not in nvram so that should be fine but somewhat hacky, no?
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23:02:11gevaertsI'm not convinced we really *need* to pick the right one
23:02:29gevaertsAfter all, on refurbished models chances are that will be wrong anyway
23:02:42pixelmasomeone with an H100/H300 which runs a 27902 or newer build together with e.g. an mpg movie or gameboy game (and possibly a paper clip) around?
23:03:29pixelmagevaerts: and on the M5/X5s you also have no means of guessing the correct battery capacity
23:03:35pixelmaor M3s
23:04:04gevaertspixelma: well, the argument is that on ipod video we have a way, even if that way is not 100% accurate
23:05:02n1swell, this hacky way would get all but the refurbs and those with battery upgrades, but i agree, it's not terribly important
23:05:10 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:06:26gevaertsAnyone with an ipod video *today* has an old battery, a replaced battery, or a refurbished ipod anyway
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23:08:47Buscheljust choose the smaller (400mAh) one as default and add a remark to the manual. this way the runtime is underestimated and not overestimated...
23:11:12gevaertsThe manual says ". This value is fairly meaningless in the Ipod family at present, and work is on-going into finding a better way to determine battery life" right now :)
23:11:56Buschelhehe, nobody changed it? ;)
23:15:10pixelmaI believe there also is a note already in the Iaudio manuals which you could just reuse and enable for the Ipod Videos together with filling in the correct values for the limits
23:15:11gevaertsYes, I'm copying that bit
23:15:29pixelmaspeaking of which... does someone know if all AMS Sansas (and also the PP Sansas) use the same volume, bass and treble range (min - max)?
23:17:47gevaertshm, is svn down?
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23:19:16CIA-81New commit by gevaerts (r27943): Change dap{} to \dap{} in the iaudio battery capacity description
23:21:07CIA-81r27943 build result: All green
23:21:48pixelmaheh, I overlooked that one in my recent work in that part...
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23:22:35gevaertsok, I think my latest patch in FS #11580 is ready. If I get enough positive results and no problem reports in the next few days, I'll commit that one I think
23:23:17Buschelgood night
23:23:20 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716])
23:23:36gevaertspixelma: it meant my patch was out of sync even before I uploaded it to flyspray :)
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23:35:29soapgevaerts, the way to "detect" battery capacity is not 100% accurate for the pool of iPod Videos /as a whole/ - but it is (TTBOMK) 100% accurate for iPod Videos as sold by Apple. The issue comes up with modified iPods, be they modified by the end user or modified by a remanufacturer / reseller.
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23:36:20gevaertssoap: yes, and this is where my argument about those batteries being old by now comes in :)
23:37:11soapahh, opening the back door? ;)
23:37:40*gevaerts doesn't mind cheating every now and then :)
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23:38:46gevaertssoap: I'm not against changing the default depending on the detected value if someone finds a clean way. I just don't care enough to spend more time on it now :)
23:40:14soap(Buschel being asleep means the best answer might also be asleep) but how accurate is the runtime estimation now? It is one of those items I never display.
23:40:50soapWe used to get many forum posts complaining about it - but those seem to have mostly died off.
23:41:26gevaertsThe manual still says it's bad, but I'm not sure if that means a lot
23:41:34soapThe only reason I'm the least concerned about the behavior change is in the name of preventing a resumption of those (admittedly mild) help requests.
23:42:49soapThe 32 / 64 issue, admittedly, appears to cause more problems - and fixing it, even at the cost of runtime estimation, probably reduces overall user issues.
23:43:54 Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:45:13*gevaerts nods
23:46:03gevaertsIt's actually easy to fix, I just don't really like any of the ways I've thought of
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23:48:41gevaertsDoes the settings code set variables to their default value if the setting doesn't appear in the config file?
23:49:52gevaertshm, no, ignore that question. The default setting in settings_list.c *has* to be a compile-time constant if I read this right
23:50:33*gevaerts stands by his statement on flyspray
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23:58:17soaphas your testing build been updated to the v4 patch, gevaerts?
23:58:40gevaertsNo. I'm not sure if the differences are really important enough
23:58:45gevaertsMaybe I should though
23:58:52soap(or at least v3?, for as I read FS a manual addition is the only change from 3 to 4?)

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