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#rockbox log for 2010-09-08

00:01:45 Join clone4crw [0] (
00:03:46 Quit ender` (Quit: We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. -- H.L. Mencken)
00:13:11 Join huffpuff_ [0] (
00:15:51 Quit huffpuff (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:23:37 Quit rasher (Remote host closed the connection)
00:25:00 Quit bmbl (Quit: Bye!)
00:31:39 Quit jgarvey (Quit: Leaving)
00:33:18bertrikWe could just remove the "custom" channel config setting and allow the stereo width to be configured while in "stereo" channel config
00:34:11 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
00:34:12bertrikIt's a bit weird to me that the "stereo width" can be controlled but has no effect in "stereo" channel config
00:34:47 Join [Saint] [0] (S_a_i_n_t@
00:35:42bertrikMaybe have a special check for "stereo width" = 100% to avoid wasting processing power
00:36:54pixelmait's a bit like the equaliser you can have adjust but leave it turned off, it makes it easy to switch. I don't care much but I know people prefer these settings to be independent
00:38:15Tornethere are virtually no settings that aren't independant currently
00:38:29Torneonly a few oddities like the "recent only" choices for bookmarking
00:39:11*[Saint] reads the logs where he fell off the net and thinks "We could just remove the "custom" channel config setting and allow the stereo width to be configured while in "stereo" channel config"
00:39:14[Saint]is a good idea.
00:39:25[Saint]keep the setting, but, remove the ability to set it.
00:39:51[Saint]ie. remember the last setting, so it can be reapplied
00:40:08 Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:40:09Tornetbh i don't see the problem with the current behaviour
00:40:18Torneif you don't notice that it didn't do anything then it doesn't matter anyway, no? :)
00:40:28Torneand if you do notice then it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to work out why
00:40:32bertrikTorne, "stereo width" doesn't work in "stereo" mode, is confusing to me
00:40:48[Saint]it seems weird, I wonder how many people adjust stereo width not knowing its useless without setting channel config to custom
00:40:59bertrikone setting depending on another setting in a different menu
00:41:11*[Saint] nods
00:41:27Torne[Saint]: if they adjust it and *don't notice* then they're irrelevant
00:41:42Torneif they don't hear that it didn't do anything then it clearly doesn't matter whether it does anything for them ;)
00:42:00Torneplacebo and all that
00:42:08[Saint]that's hardly the point being made ;)
00:42:51Tornei know, but you keep implying that side :)
00:43:03 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (~stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
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00:43:42 Join rasher [0] (~rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher)
00:43:48*Torne shrugs, i just don't see how reducing the flexibility is particularly useful. it's not a feature most people have any reason to use at all, and, yaknow, the manual.
00:44:22Tornemaybe just rename the setting?
00:44:30[Saint]I don't see how it reduces flexibility
00:45:10Torneif stereo and custom get merged, then you can't turn the custom processing *off* any more without throwing away the value of the setting
00:45:16Torneyou'd have to set it back to 100%
00:45:36Torneseriouusly, i don't see how this is any different to the eq or whatever
00:45:41[Saint]not if you just have it remember the previous setting like I suggested earlier
00:45:46[Saint]that wouldn;t be hard.
00:45:48 Join Brownout [0] (~brownout@wikimedia/brownout)
00:45:49Torneremember how?
00:45:56[Saint]from the config
00:46:08Tornei don't understand what you mean
00:46:21Torneif you eliminate "custom" then how do you tell it to use the remembered setting?
00:46:30Torneor how to stop using it, for that matter
00:47:29Torneseriously, how is this different from the eq? it's only one number instead of lots, but the same principle applies surely
00:47:51Tornethere's a switch to turn some kind of processing (which takes cpu power) on and off
00:47:55bertrikThe eq isn't turned on/off in the "channel config" menu
00:48:03Torneand there's a configuration for that processing, which happens only to be one value
00:48:19 Part Brownout
00:48:25[Saint]yeah, I was going to say that...kinda...the EQ stuff is in the same place
00:48:27Torneyou mean the eq is a submenu and the channel config/width isn't?
00:48:31Tornearen't they adjacent?
00:48:47[Saint]well, yes, but not obviously connected
00:48:52Torne"channel config" isn't a menu, it's just a setting
00:49:06Torneok. so make it a submenu :)
00:49:12 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:49:15[Saint]works for me.
00:49:31[Saint]it's a fair(er) compromise
00:49:46Tornei just don't like the implied stuff
00:49:47pixelmabertrik: but there (in the sense of "somwwhere in the sounds settings" is an "enable graphical eq" setting and then the actual ways to adjust it
00:50:30Tornewe don't have a sufficiently flexible UI (at the moment) to make it clear when these implicit things happen
00:50:34bertriksorry, I can't understand how you think this is perfectly logical
00:50:37Torneso, i feel it's better to be explicit
00:51:06Tornebertrik: see above, no? one setting enables/disables some piece of DSP logic; the other setting is the parameter for that DSP logic
00:51:12Tornehow is that not logical?
00:51:18 Quit Luca_S (Quit: CGI:IRC)
00:51:19Tornei can see how it's not *obviously connected* when you look at the UI
00:51:26Tornebecause it isn't, you're right
00:51:35Tornebut once you know that it is, it's perfectly sensible..
00:51:59[Saint]well, "sensible", not perfectly sensible. ;)
00:52:07bertriklike I said, "*stereo* width" having no effect in "*stereo*" mode, allowing one setting to be configureable, but having to enable it in a different menu
00:52:34bertrikdefeats the principle of "least surprise" IMO
00:52:45 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
00:52:58pixelmamaybe it's really the naming (and placement) of the "Custom channel config" or however it's called, I'm not a 100% sure of the current structure at the moment
00:53:02 Join krabador [0] (
00:53:02Torneso, change the name, or make it a submenu
00:53:19Tornepixelma: It's "Channel configuration" and "stereo width", adjacent on the sound settings menu
00:53:25bertrikActually I don't enough about it and will probably never use it... :)
00:53:30Tornethey're right that there's nothing to imply they are connected
00:53:35Torneunless you read the manual
00:54:02Tornei'm just questioning the need to change the actual logic; i have no proble with changing the UI for it :)
00:54:41 Join Drise [0] (
00:54:50Torneand no i don't use this setting :)
00:54:58TorneI just dislike special cases ;)
00:55:05 Join fdinel [0] (
00:55:08bertrikok, me too
00:55:25TorneThe other way to solve it without any special cases would be to merge the two things
00:55:38Torneso mono would just become 0%, stereo 100%, and you'd need special entries for left/right
00:55:46Torne(is that all that's on the channel config menu? i think so)
00:56:04Tornethat does reduce the flexibility but it does so without weird implicit behaviour
00:56:15Torneit's at least clear what the effect is in all cases
00:56:38TheSevenlooks like we have the first nano2g brick
00:57:09TheSeveni'm currently trying to help someone who is experiencing the following problem
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00:57:16 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
00:57:20DriseIs the fuze v2 usb operational, or do I still need to run the patch
00:57:32Battousaiat least that means there's an opportunity for the first nano2g unbrick
00:57:33TheSevenhe tried to rolo into a new build, which locked up
00:57:46TheSevenwhen he reset the ipod, the FTL was bad
00:58:03TheSevenand since that point, all attempts to erase NAND blocks have failed
00:58:10 Join billybobthornton [0] (S_a_i_n_t@
00:58:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:58:36billybobthorntonKareoki is a bit of a weird doesn't seem to fit.
00:58:46 Nick billybobthornton is now known as S_a_i_n_t (S_a_i_n_t@
00:59:26DriseSaint: is there a way to type names without having to type them? Such as not having to type S_a_i_n_t?
00:59:37Torneyou could type saint instead
00:59:37DriseIts been a while since I'ved used IRC
00:59:42 Quit bertrik (Quit: goodnight!)
00:59:43Tornebut yes, tab-complete in just aout every client
00:59:58 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:00:01DriseTab complete!?!?!?! OMFG
01:00:15TorneTheSeven: eek
01:00:31TheSeveni have no idea at all how this can happen
01:00:52TheSeveneither rolo failed because of that well-known cache issue, and made it execute something weird, which made that flash read-only
01:00:54 Quit bluebroth3r (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
01:01:09 Quit Llorean (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:01:32TheSevenor the flash went bad for a different reason, which made rolo fail to sync the ftl. no idea which one happened
01:01:45 Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean)
01:02:01Torneit's really quite depressing how badly the nano handles ftl issues on its own
01:02:06S_a_i_n_tthe flash *could* have just chosen that moment to die
01:02:09TheSeventhe ipod was luckily running iloader, otherwise we wouldn't have had any way of accessing it
01:02:23S_a_i_n_tit seems just as feasable as any other explanation.
01:02:45TheSevenS_a_i_n_t: i doubt a flash will fail in a way that makes it to contain mostly valid data, but refuse to erase any block
01:03:01S_a_i_n_tHmmm, good point.
01:03:04mulenmarLucky me. >_> I have a one-of-a-kind Nano2G brick.
01:03:07DriseS_a_i_n_t, Did pamaury finish the usb code?
01:03:14Torneyeah it seems more likely that it's managed to protect itself or something
01:03:21S_a_i_n_tcan he do the open/piss about/solder trick?
01:03:36TheSeventhat won't help the flash to get writable :)
01:03:37mulenmarThere was a one-byte difference in that one dump thought, TheSeven . . .
01:03:50TheSevenyes, but that just *can't* be the reason
01:03:51Tornewas it in a bad block?
01:04:06TheSeven*what* was in a bad block?
01:04:14S_a_i_n_tmulenmar: was it you?
01:04:20mulenmarYup. Lucky me.
01:04:28S_a_i_n_toh...bugger :/
01:04:46*mulenmar : born Friday the 13th. X~P
01:05:17TheSevenTorne: any idea what could make that flash be read-only?
01:05:39TheSevenmulenmar: we should probably try if we can write things, if we don't erase it first
01:06:05 Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg)
01:06:11TorneTheSeven: i assume you can send it unprotect commands and stuff?
01:06:13mulenmarI thought that flash memory HAD to have the block erased before it could be written to?
01:07:13 Quit JdGordon (Quit: Leaving.)
01:07:24Torneto be written to *correctly*, yes
01:07:26TheSevenmulenmar: we still have some erased blocks to play with
01:07:45Tornesome flash lets you write the same block more than once, and it just won't program any of the 1's
01:07:48TheSevenand most datasheets claim that a block can be written up to like 4 times before it needs to be erased again
01:08:35TorneTheSeven: that won't normally overwrite existing 0's though
01:08:57TheSevenbut it's sufficient to check if anything changes at all
01:09:16*Drise is running the script, hoping for no errors.
01:09:33Tornehas the thing been through an actual power cycle, or can't you do that on nano2g either?
01:09:49Tornebecause if the flash chip has decided that ranges are protected, powercycling will generally clear that ;)
01:09:59Tornesince it doesn't store that anywhere persistent
01:10:11 Quit kart0ffelsack (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:10:39mulenmarJust resets.
01:10:55Torneyeah, that may or may not reset protected blocks
01:11:09Tornedoes iloader know how to send the unprotect command for that flash?
01:11:17mulenmarReset-hold off- let sit was tried once.
01:11:19Torneyou could just blanket unprotect every sector and see if that makes a difference
01:11:39*TheSeven doesn't really have a clue how flash chips work
01:11:52TheSevenbut we can execute arbitrary code, so we can do whatever we need to
01:11:58Tornewell, what i mean is that most flash chips have a protection feature
01:12:03Torneor "lock" they might call it
01:12:10Torneso you can write-protect a range of blocks
01:12:20Torneit's just a command, and it's not usually stored anywhere persistent
01:12:28Torneit's just a protection-from-cockups thing, not a security feature
01:12:45Tornenormally you use it to, say, protect the bootloader from being overwritten unless something specifically unprotects it forst
01:13:04Tornethe bootloader would just send the protect command at boot time
01:13:18Tornei'm kinda guessing :)
01:17:24*kugel agrees with bertrik
01:17:45kugelI always wondered if my ears are so bad or why else does stereo width nothing?
01:18:55S_a_i_n_twooo! sorry kugel, just now I KNOW (when a dev messes it up too) that its totally un-obvious that the two are connected (channel config/stereo width)
01:20:00 Join saratoga [0] (9803c22e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
01:20:06*Torne isn't disagreeing that it's non-obvios, just objects to the proposed fix
01:20:09kugelI didn't even know channel config and stereo width are related to each other
01:20:37kugelthe eq is a bad example, it would be a better one if channel config was named "enable stereo width"
01:21:01Torneso rename the settings to be more logical :)
01:22:19kugelI bet nobody actually uses it
01:22:25pixelmaI do
01:22:30S_a_i_n_twhat about making "Custom" a subdir, and having enable diable stereo width in there, as well as stereo width?
01:22:42TorneS_a_i_n_t: that's not possible easily
01:22:42Torneour list UI doesn't work that way
01:22:51Tornechannel config is not a submenu
01:22:54Torneit's just a setting
01:23:07Torneso, there's no way to give it sub-options without changing the structure of the thing entirely
01:23:08pixelmaway better than crossfeed to my ears - and also available on hwcodec (stereo width)
01:23:38 Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
01:24:58kugelTorne: I think it's doable
01:25:05pixelmais enabling "custom" als needed for mono etc.? Just thinking that "enable stereo width" could be misleading too if it was
01:25:19kugelyou can always add custom callbacks to settings and menus so I don't see any blocker right now
01:26:01Tornekugel: this seems like a lot of effort/code for a UI issue that's solveable by readnt he manual :)
01:27:02S_a_i_n_tpixelma: It is kinda I'm fairly sure that "Stereo Width == 0%" is mono, if it isn't, then that's GOT to be a bug
01:27:28kugelI think they showed somewhere in the 60s or 70s that UIs need to be easy to use and not missleading regardless of the existence of a manual
01:28:13Tornei just really don't think you need to implement some custom thing that's unique to this to solve the problem
01:28:18S_a_i_n_tyeah...pretty sure that UIs that don't confuse the fuck out of people are a good thing in general ;)
01:28:21Tornemove them to a submenu and rename them, or something
01:28:32kugelrtfm is nice if there's a lot of effort involved, but I don't think that's the case here
01:28:34Torneto make it cear they are connected adn that one thing only affects one mode of the other thing
01:28:48Tornewe already have all the code for that :)
01:28:55Torneno special case required
01:29:05pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: what does that have to do with my question?
01:29:26S_a_i_n_tI must have misread it, sorry
01:29:59TheSevenTorne: any idea how to figure out where to get a datasheet for a flash chip with the ID code 0x2585d3ad?
01:30:33Torneer, not really
01:30:36Torneother than google :)
01:30:41TheSeventhe hynix datasheet i had lying around doesn't mention a block protection feature, it seems to have a write protect pin instead
01:31:16TheSeventhe first google hit for that ID code ends up in flyspray :/
01:31:22kugelI think keeping the stereo width setting internally (for flexiblity and compatibility), while making stereo width a submenu of custom channel config is doable with little extra code
01:31:41TheSevenand all the other hits in irc logs from rockbox or linux4nano :(
01:31:44Torneif you're going to do something like that it makes more sense to just merge the two lists, no?
01:32:04Tornehave the percentages and also the other options at one end of the list.
01:32:17*Torne shrugs
01:32:35*Dreamxtreme shrug
01:32:59S_a_i_n_tkugel: If you think its doable, persoanlly, I think that's a decent solution for this.
01:33:25kugelI think that's more effort in the end (and clutters up the list)
01:33:34kugelTorne: ^
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01:35:26S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: is that chip the HY27UT088G2M?
01:35:39TheSevenit's the same that you have at least...
01:36:16S_a_i_n_tHmmm...I have a few, pretty sure they're not *all* the same ;)
01:36:41TheSevenwell, at least you mentioned that id once
01:36:49TheSevendid you find a datasheet for the HY27UT088G2M?
01:36:57S_a_i_n_twell, that chip id you gave led me to that chip, and, I can find sheets for it.
01:37:35*S_a_i_n_t hands TheSeven
01:38:28TheSevennow which of those?
01:38:32TheSeventhey're all no exact matches
01:39:15S_a_i_n_tnone? on any of the pages?
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01:40:22saratogatheres probably a decoder chart somewhere for the part number
01:40:59saratogaoh found it
01:42:03S_a_i_n_tthe datasheet, or the decoder for the partnumber?
01:42:22saratogathose datasheets all have a decoder in them
01:44:10saratogaso HY27U = 1.8v NAND, T is the number of levels per cell, 088 is the package type,
01:44:10saratogahmm no
01:44:35TheSevenso it's a cached-program 8-level-cell type
01:44:46TheSevenno, 4-level
01:45:06*S_a_i_n_t can only find up to HY27US, but, no HY27UT
01:46:04saratogaits probably Two levels per cell
01:46:17saratogasince these are not single level memory chips, it'd have to be either 2 or 3
01:46:24*TheSeven has the impression that basically all hynix nand flash chips have device code 0xd3
01:46:30saratogaerr 2 bit or 4 bit
01:46:37saratogaerr 2 bit or 3 bit
01:46:42saratogaso 4 level or 8 level
01:46:54TheSeven4 levels according to the decoder in my datasheet
01:47:04saratogaso T = Two bit probably
01:47:57TheSevenwhatever it is, it probably has a hardware WP pin, not a software block protection command
01:48:11 Join bunnyboi [0] (
01:49:14TheSevennow what could be driving that pin, and why can it survive a powerdown
01:49:57TheSevenwriting also fails, even on an erased page
01:51:22 Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection)
01:54:13 Quit Drise (Quit: Leaving)
01:59:22saratogatried shorting the power and ground pins on the chip?
02:00:54 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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02:03:54TheSevensaratoga: he hasn't opened that thing yet, and they aren't easy to open at all
02:04:27TheSevenand before shorting anything i'd measure the level on the WP pin
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02:05:26[Saint]"aren't easy" is an understatement.
02:06:02[Saint]it's very easy to teat the ribbon cable for the hold switch.
02:06:03[Saint]teat? Ahem...*tear
02:06:56[Saint]that, and strip the head on the tiny lock-tite'd screws holding the bracket ander the plastic cap on the top.
02:07:24[Saint]omg, *gah!
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02:08:27TheSeveni've also looked at the pmu's gpios, they match
02:08:47TheSeventhe only differences i can find are two unknown and apparently read-only bits on the SoC's GPIOs
02:09:10TheSevenand an NVRAM byte in the PMU, along with some interrupt flags
02:10:09TheSevenany ideas left?
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02:13:54 Quit mulenmar (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
02:16:39TheSevenhmmm now this is weird
02:16:48TheSevenjudging from the WP pin is unconnected!
02:18:41[Saint]yes...that *is* weird.
02:19:21[Saint]remind me to *not* do whatever this guy did to his Nano...
02:19:44TheSeventhat nano was toast anyway :)
02:19:46JdGordon|was that a danger? :)
02:19:51 Quit hebz0rl (Quit: Ex-Chat)
02:20:46TheSevenor wait, there might be a via inside that pad
02:20:56mulenmar_[Saint] That would be attempting to upgrade the Rockbox version by deleting .rockbox and transferring over a new version while Rockbox was running, combined with using iLoader instead of Rockbox Loader.
02:21:25 Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:21:31mulenmar_After transfering at least 4.5GB total onto and off of the Nano while testing a patch.
02:22:25mulenmar_While *preparing* to test a patch, I mean. I was still running vanilla Rockbox.
02:24:52TheSevennow what could apple have connected to that pin?
02:25:12TheSeventhe datasheets say that it shouldn't be tied to ground but pulled high during powerup instead
02:26:27TheSevenand how can we permanently affect what this is tied to?
02:26:29 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:28:44 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
02:28:57 Quit efyx (Remote host closed the connection)
02:29:27CIA-81New commit by funman (r28031): usb-drv-as3525v2: fixes ...
02:31:09CIA-81r28031 build result: All green
02:32:07funmanwe have 2 competing drivers for the same hardware
02:32:39funmanone is 450 lines, the other is 1302
02:37:25*TheSeven wonders if the 450 line one is his one :)
02:37:48funmanthat's the one yes
02:37:59TheSevenwhere does the other one come from?
02:38:09funmansee last commit
02:38:30funmani'm pretty close to have this one working though
02:41:15TheSeventhis doesn't seem to be much more actual code though
02:41:35TheSevenit's commented way better
02:41:57TheSevenand it's using a lot more symbols instead of hardwired numbers
02:42:12funmanwe must take the best of both
02:43:34TheSevenwhich one is actually working better?
02:43:53TheSevencould the big one easily be ported to the nano?
02:44:09funmanit took me only a few hacks to make the nano2g one work on amsv2 so yeah
02:44:44funmansee FS #11607 : usb-target.h
02:44:47 Join ascheel [0] (~ascheel@ampache/staff/ascheel)
02:45:48ascheelQuick question. says that Sansa v2 is stable, but all other pages like and even itself indicate it is *NOT* currently stable. Can I safely assume that the latter links merely have not yet been updated?
02:46:18funmanascheel: 'Sansa v2' is what exactly?
02:46:24ascheelSorry, Fuzev2
02:46:29ascheelI apologize
02:46:36ascheelbrain is slower than the fingers
02:46:43funmanSansaAMS doesn't say it's stable
02:47:09ascheelah, I thought the table itself indicated stability
02:47:11saratoga"Rockbox is considered Stable on Fuze v1/e200v2, Unstable on Clip v1, Clip v2, Clip+, Fuze v2"
02:47:15saratogasounds pretty clear to me
02:47:29funmanit works pretty fine though
02:47:42saratogaalthough i think the clipv1 is stable now
02:47:55funmanyeah the front page just need manual update
02:48:25ascheelAre the 'Specific problems' all that remains before it goes stable?
02:48:56funmani think once we get USB working we'll label them stables
02:49:10saratogatargets become stable when people feel like it basically
02:49:42ascheelfunman, Fuze v2 I know had the USB listed as the only remaining non working item, but now it says it is functional. Are there portions not yet working not listed?
02:50:04ascheelor does it require ALL SansaAMS builds to be stable before ANY of them are marked as such?
02:50:47saratogaascheel: take a look at the asterisk
02:51:06ascheelYeah, says it's just not in SVN
02:51:16ascheelSo it's working, but not yet being distributed?
02:51:36TheSevenit's really new, not properly tested code, that seems to work well at a first glance
02:51:53ascheelgotcha. Ah, just now realized the last modified date of that page (yesterday).
02:51:56TheSevenit hasn't even adopted into svn yet, so there's just no way to call that stable :)
02:52:08ascheelDidn't realize I was that early on the punch with it
02:53:45saratogahas anyone noticed problems with the EQ on AMS like that one guy reported in the forums?
02:53:53saratogai'm at loss as to how that could be target specific
02:53:58 Quit lestatar (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:58:07funmanread: 5.8Mbps on clipv2 (although sometimes it's much much much slower)
02:58:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:03:09CIA-81New commit by funman (r28032): usb-drv-as3525v2: use dump_dcache_range() ...
03:03:14CIA-81New commit by funman (r28033): as3525v2 usb: define USB_HAS_BULK ...
03:05:00CIA-81r28032 build result: All green
03:06:47CIA-81r28033 build result: All green
03:07:13funmanstill doesn't work correctly all the times
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03:08:01leachim6how do I tell which version of the Sansa Fuze i have?
03:08:12leachim6whether it's V1 or V2
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03:09:44funmancheck the manual it explains how to do so
03:09:58leachim6I looked
03:10:33funman <- you didn't look very close
03:10:51leachim6sorry, I tried to find it on my own before I asked
03:11:35leachim6so if version says "v0.1.01.07A"
03:11:38leachim6I have a version 1, right?
03:11:42leachim6I just want to make completely sure
03:11:53leachim6sweet :)
03:12:02leachim6so that means I'm officially supported by the installer at least
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03:15:55leachim6so, If I have an older firmware on my Fuze, do I wanna try to get the old firmware bin and then patch it? or do I want to update to the newsest firmware, then patch that
03:17:43leachim6which is more ideal?
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03:19:57funm4nAMSv2 USB works (and fails) equally well on windows
03:21:01leachim6what does that mean?
03:21:12leachim6I don't know what that means
03:21:18ascheelhe's testing Fuze v2 right now.
03:21:22leachim6oh right
03:21:25leachim6I'm lucky I have a v1
03:21:28ascheelNew code. Not anything you'll be experiencing, yet
03:21:51leachim6you guys are pretty vigilant on new code huh?
03:21:53leachim6still chugging
03:22:18leachim6so I should update my v1 to the latest firmware ?
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03:23:20leachim6can I just get a yea or nay?
03:26:17ascheel<−−- not rockbox person. Just in here as you are.
03:26:20funm4nleachim6: installing the rockbox bootloader requires upgrading the OF version
03:26:35leachim6funm4n, good, because I updated it
03:26:38funm4nyou can just upgrade to the latest OF while installign rockbox at the same time, no need to upgrade before that
03:26:59funm4n"upgrade" means install another version, it doesn't need to be the last one
03:26:59leachim6so....I'm on the latest version....
03:27:05leachim6got rbutil going on
03:27:06 Quit funm4n (Quit: Page closed)
03:27:09leachim6plugged in my sansa
03:27:16leachim6now I just run rbutil, and point at my .bin file?
03:27:18leachim6and that's all?
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03:29:24funmanthat's all. isn't that marvelous?
03:29:29leachim6that was esay
03:29:36leachim6but my sansa's still showing the "connected" animation
03:29:39leachim6after the whole installation
03:29:44leachim6shouldn't it like....reboot or something?
03:29:56ascheelyou need to power down and back up, IIRC
03:30:28ascheelI fail again
03:30:29funmanjust eject it
03:30:36leachim6oh yeah, I got it
03:30:40leachim6"Firmware update in progress"
03:30:42leachim6now's crunch time.
03:30:50leachim6*kneads hands*
03:30:53leachim6Upgrade complete :D
03:31:21ascheelfunman, powering it up with the USB cable in boots to the OF, correct?
03:31:33saratogadepends on which player you have
03:31:39ascheelthanks, saratoga.
03:31:43saratogait will on amsv2, won't on amsv1 anymore
03:31:49leachim6I think I read that USB is supported on the v1
03:31:51leachim6let me check
03:32:00leachim6nope, it reboots.
03:32:01ascheelthat just a workaround for nonstable ports, then?
03:32:08leachim6nope, stable ports reboot too
03:32:20leachim6I just tested it
03:32:30funmanleachim6: read the SansaAMS wiki page (linked from the front page)
03:32:42leachim6ok, I'll read it
03:32:47leachim6funman, did you write code for this release?
03:33:27funmanme and hundreds of other peoples yes
03:33:33leachim6well, good on you
03:33:37leachim6and all the others
03:33:41leachim6fantastic job
03:33:55leachim6I've got rockbox on my 5g iPod, and that's kickass too
03:33:59leachim6but the sansa version is super nice
03:34:17leachim6does anyone know what the SD card limit is on the v1?
03:34:30funmanwhatever is the theorical limit, 32GB i guess
03:34:48leachim6a 32gb card is like.....50 bucks
03:34:58leachim6now I can put off that new iPod touch
03:35:52ascheeliPod touch is worth it ONLY for Sudoku and email, assuming your phone doesn't handle it.
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03:36:08ascheelother than that, it sucks for a media player and web browser
03:36:09leachim6right, I already have a 16gb v2
03:36:14leachim6which is great for apps and stuff
03:36:21funmanguys please stay on topic, move this chat to #rockbox-community
03:36:22leachim6but the little sansa is really good at playing music
03:36:29ascheelSorry, funman
03:36:36leachim6aw c'kon funman, your name is paradoxical!
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03:42:17leachim6I answered my own question anyway lol
03:48:35funmanah i continue to see the weird malformed packet on clip+
03:50:39CIA-81New commit by funman (r28034): USB AMSv2: update endpoint->len on transfer ...
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03:52:29CIA-81r28034 build result: All green
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03:59:45CIA-81New commit by funman (r28035): USB AMSv2: cosmetics ...
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04:01:52CIA-81r28035 build result: All green
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04:16:16funman[ 2904.900046] usb 1-3: device firmware changed
04:16:24funmanhow does it know??
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04:39:20funmani see weird things in AMSv1 usb driver
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05:02:41leachim6have we got lyrics support in rockbox yet?
05:02:42leachim6even beta?
05:02:58funmancheck flyspray i think there's a patch for it
05:03:22leachim6like a patch that I have to compile in myself?
05:03:26leachim6or a patch that I stick in the .rockbox folder.
05:03:59funmanthe first one
05:04:11leachim6I'm too lazy to do such a thing haha
05:04:27leachim6why is that not in core yet?
05:04:46funmanit should be explained in the flyspray entry
05:05:06leachim6which one?
05:05:10leachim6how to do it, or why it's not in core
05:05:24leachim6because I know how to do it, I'm just lazy lol
05:05:27funmanwhy it's not in core
05:05:48leachim6oh, ok, I'll read it
05:06:02leachim6I think I tried to build rb with that patch for my iPod, I could never get it to work
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05:31:13CIA-81New commit by funman (r28036): usb-s3c6400x.c : don't hardcode USB_NUM_ENDPOINTS but use the define
05:31:21CIA-81New commit by funman (r28037): USB AMSv2: use status == -1 to signal errors ...
05:32:46CIA-81r28036 build result: All green
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05:34:17CIA-81r28037 build result: All green
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06:20:41CIA-81New commit by funman (r28038): USB AMSv2: simplify FOR_EACH* macros ...
06:22:25CIA-81r28038 build result: All green
06:23:10funmanTheSeven: I forgot that of course we also have the 22k+ lines Linux driver made by Synopsys
06:27:06CIA-81New commit by funman (r28039): USB AMSv2: Reduce the size of (in/out)_ep_list
06:28:34CIA-81r28039 build result: All green
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06:37:43CIA-81New commit by funman (r28040): usb-drv-as3525v2.c: cosmetics (remove trailing spaces)
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06:39:09CIA-81r28040 build result: All green
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06:49:14shuffle2i found this really old log where people discuss the bcm2722 chip used in ipod 5g
06:49:27shuffle2has anything happened with it since then? :)
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07:04:51CIA-81New commit by funman (r28041): USB AMSv2: only read endpoint interrupt status register once
07:05:28shuffle2hum, i was asking about bcm2722 because i saw it has an usb interface
07:05:48shuffle2however the PP5021C-TDF does as well?
07:06:28CIA-81r28041 build result: All green
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07:06:49funmanan usb interface?
07:07:09shuffle2so says
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07:09:03funman"bcm" not found
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07:09:24funmanIIUC the bcm2722 is only an audio/video processor (
07:09:30funmanI can't find any mention to "bcm" in that pdf
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07:10:18shuffle2that's because it's a PP part and not made by broadcom?? o_O
07:10:57funmanyou were asking about bcm2722 because you saw "it has an usb interface" <- "it" is the PP or the bcm2722 ?
07:11:26funmaninteresting, maybe it's for debug purposes?
07:11:31shuffle2which connects to the external ipod port is what i'm really asking ;p
07:12:06shuffle2i'd guess PP, as it's usb 2.0, opposed to 1.1
07:12:25shuffle2and maybe that makes coding for it easier? do you know of docs for this cpu?
07:12:57funmannope but i don't know PP, wait a bit until the europeans wake up and ask again
07:13:16funmanAFAIK most of the work for PP required reverse engineering
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07:16:45CIA-81New commit by funman (r28042): USB AMSv2: smaller struct usb_endpoint ...
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07:17:46saratogathere are no docs for the bcm or pp chips
07:18:01shuffle2well, it's a start :p
07:18:19CIA-81r28042 build result: All green
07:18:31shuffle2btw what are you using to do build tests?
07:18:52funmanself-written perl scripts
07:19:40funman(self = written by rockbox hackers, not by me)
07:20:36funmani still don't get what's wrong with USB
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07:21:17shuffle2you mean your current commits?
07:22:50funmanthe file i'm working on, yes
07:23:38funmanit works just like with FS #11607 so i can't compare with usb-s3c6400x.c
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07:30:52shuffle2the PP is just arm core(s)? have people dumped apple's code to speak to usb? (or just the entire thing?)
07:31:38shuffle2it can't be that large of a codebase
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07:41:24shuffle2 :P
07:43:08CIA-81New commit by funman (r28043): USB AMSv2: split handle_ep_int() ...
07:44:43CIA-81r28043 build result: All green
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08:13:11CIA-81New commit by funman (r28044): USB AMSv2: use tables for usb_drv_port_speed() and usb_drv_mps_by_type()
08:14:44CIA-81r28044 build result: All green
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09:32:54shuffle2fwiw, the cygwin packages you provide at are named a bit wrongly
09:33:23shuffle2your buildscripts expect "-eabi" in the filename, those packages don't install as such
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09:50:32gevaertsshuffle2: they're named correctly
09:52:23gevaertsThey're not named eabi because, surprise, they're not the eabi compilers
09:53:47shuffle2i'm shocked
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11:36:16preglowamiconn: the h120 can echo the signal it gets on it's spdif input on its line out, yeah? i've forgotten how it works :>
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12:38:06Luca_Sfunman: I see you closed FS11607 with the reason "usb-drv-as3525v2.c now works"; if that's the case, I have to report that enabling USE_ROCKBOX_USB and commenting USB_HANDLED_BY_OF on current SVN leads to PANIC: usb-drv: EP0 data completion while waiting for ACK (FuzeV2)
12:39:11funmantry plugging it a dozen of times and see if it gives this message all the times
12:40:22Luca_Sthe second time has been enough :D :D
12:44:20funman"svn works like fs#11607" -> plug it 10 times, 10 different results
12:44:55funmansometimes it'll mount properly and transfer files with very decent performance, sometimes it'll almost mount but fail, sometimes it fails very early
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12:45:49Luca_Sdo I have to change something in the headers to enable HID?
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12:46:57funmanyes but i think you must at least disable usb storage for it to work
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12:47:39funmangrep for HID in firmware/export/config/sansaclip.h and uncomment HAS_USB_INTERRUPT in firmware/export/config.h(? i think it's this file)
12:48:32Luca_SI'll try, thank you
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13:23:39pamauryfunman: ping
13:23:48pamauryyou made lots of changes to my code, some are strange
13:24:08funmani made an effort to separate changes so just ask
13:24:26pamaurywhy halving fifo size ? 1024 is a best bound since it also handling isochronous. Also, the fifo is large enough to handle it
13:24:42funmanit didn't work with 1024
13:25:00funmani used the fifo size of usb-s3c6400x.c and it magically mounted
13:25:25pamaurycosmetics: x ? true : false -> x
13:25:31pamauryNO because the value is not 0 or 1
13:25:42pamauryit's 0 or 0x80, that's bad practice
13:26:10funmanfunction returns bool so it's casted
13:26:22pamauryyes but that's bad practice anyway
13:26:47pamaurywhy do set endpoints[ep][DIR_IN].status = -1; on reset ? The status is updated each time you trigger a transfer ?
13:27:02funmani don't think so but then you are free to use your style and revert this change
13:27:24funmani initialize to error to be sure success is only reported when transfer is complete
13:27:41*amiconn agrees with funman regarding that kind of cosmetics
13:27:55funmanbefore that reset_endpoints() would report success when cancelling transfers
13:27:56amiconnx ? true : false is just line noise imo
13:28:13funmanin the same commit i made sure reset_endpoints set the status to error though
13:28:51pamaurybut why in reset_endpoints AND cancel_transfers ?
13:28:53TheSevenfunman, pamaury: regarding the fifo size: the nano2g only seems to have 1K of total fifo size, and that register has only 11 bits each for those fifo addresses
13:29:04funmanpamaury: which revision exactly?
13:29:41funmanwrong one
13:29:42pamauryapart from this, you checked on fuzev2 ? Does it work now ?
13:30:57funmanthe only change in cancel_all_transfers() is 1 -> -1
13:31:22pamauryyes, but why setting status in reset_endpoints ? if you cancel the transfer, cancel_all_transfers already set it to -1
13:31:49pamauryit doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering if it changes anything
13:31:50funmanreset_endpoints() doesn't call cancel_all_transfers
13:32:08pamauryno, but in no way you get a bad status after reset_endpoints
13:32:10funmanthe status need to be an error before wakeup_signal() is called
13:33:01pamauryhum, right, I forgot reset_endpoints call wakeup_signal()
13:33:04funmani took example on usb-drv-as3525.c (line 181: busy && async -> error)
13:33:18*pamaury find it funny that funman know my driver better than me
13:33:21funmanand no i didn't check on fuzev2 because i lend it to a friend some days ago
13:33:37funmanpamaury: for your defense i spent all the night reading it over and over
13:33:56funmanrewriting some parts to make sure i understood it and i committed what i thought would be useful
13:34:25pamaurythe remaining changes are ok, cosmetics are not important to me, if you think it's better this way, I have no objection
13:35:05funmanwhat i didn't understand is the 'next' chaining line 304
13:35:29funmanTheSeven has mentioned it in his code also but i dont' know what it means
13:35:31pamaurythat's for dma
13:35:55pamauryapparently (I have no real doc on this), each IN endpoint need to mention the next endpoint to handle for dma transfers
13:36:29pamauryyou do a cycle so everything works: handle EP0 -> handle EP1 -> handle EP3 -> handle EP0 -> ...
13:36:38funmanah ok
13:36:51pamauryI did not check without so I can't tell if it's useful or not, the doc says it must be set in dma mode
13:37:05funmanbtw if you want to look at the remaining problem it seems the same than when using usb-s3c6400x.c on amsv2
13:37:09TheSevenand it definitely must be
13:37:17TheSevenendpoints not in that queue will never be handled
13:37:19funmanthere is a malformed packet (always the same) visible in wireshark log
13:37:27*TheSeven struggled with that crap for quite some time
13:37:32pamauryit is reproducable ?
13:37:34pamauryeasily ?
13:38:01funmanrun wireshark and plug/unplug your clip+ until it doesn't mount (it can be on the first time or the 10th time)
13:38:27funmanlooking at dmesg you will see it can fail at different steps
13:38:55pamauryok, I'll have a look but seeing the problem that caused it to fail (the invalidate_dcache()), I fear it can be anything :D
13:39:11pamauryI need to leave, good news it finally works !
13:39:21funmanyeah thanks to you;)
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13:43:05funmani should look in firmware/usbstack/ perhaps the problem is here
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13:43:19funmansome buffers use USB_DEVBSS_ATTR, some don't
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13:44:20kugelfunman: what's the difference between invalidate_dcache and dump_dcache?
13:45:13funmaninvalidate writes back cache to memory
13:45:53kugelI thought flush_ does that
13:45:55funmanso if you're going to receive data into this buffer with DMA you should dump it, no need to write back something which will be replaced
13:46:03funmanflush_*() doesn't exist
13:46:13*kugel always thought invalidate_ doesn't do writeback
13:46:23kugelcpucache_flush() does
13:46:29funmaninvalidate_() writes back and throw away the cache
13:46:38funmanclean_() writes back and keeps the cache
13:46:51*[Saint] finds that the link: (which contains CLI encoders, a debug menu patch and a batch file for converting the sample song into various (supported) formats.) on the CodecPerformanceComparison wiki page is dead...
13:46:56[Saint]Is it available elsewhere?
13:48:04funmancpucache_flush() is alias for clean_dcache(), it makes sure everything is in main memory (originally it was to make sure both cores see the same memory on PP i guess)
13:48:28funmannot sure what's invalidate_dcache() useful for though ..
13:48:51kugelfunman: thanks for the info
13:49:13TheSevenyou need that for in-place dma things
13:49:19kugelthen that's probably why the invalidate call pamaury removed fixed problems
13:49:22funmankugel: i was reading mmu-arm.S this night (because i asked myself the same questions) and i thought i should write something about it
13:49:24TheSevenlike encrypting/decrypting/compressing/whatever stuff
13:49:38funmanTheSeven: do we do that in rockbox?
13:49:49TheSevenin the nano2g bootloader at least
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13:50:06TheSevenand we usually don't want to dump the *full* data cache
13:50:15funmanIMO it should be clean_dcache() -> do DMA -> dump_dcache()
13:50:22TheSevenand for example on 940t you can't do it selectively
13:50:48TheSevenif you dump the cache, that will affect things that have been calculated while dma was active
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13:51:02funmanah right
13:51:15TheSevenon 940t you'll need clean => dma => invalidate
13:51:30TheSeventhe clean will make sure that the invalidate won't overwrite dma data
13:52:18TheSevenare you dumping the full cache anywhere?
13:52:29TheSevenif yes, I'm sure that this will cause trouble somewhere
13:52:42funmaneverytime you see cpucache_flush() (but that's in common code)
13:52:57funmanerr it's not dumping
13:53:10TheSevenflush should be mapped to invalidate
13:53:11funmanthen no
13:53:18funmanmmu-arm.S only has a dump_dcache_range() anyway
13:53:33TheSevenyes, because everything else doesn't make sense for that one
13:54:05funmansee you later
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13:56:52*kugel thinks dump_dcache() is a bit missleading
13:58:35*kugel thinks commit (for clean), flush (for invalidate) and trash (for dump) would be better names
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13:59:49TheSevenmake: *** No rule to make target `/data/rockbox-trunk/build/nano2-app/make.dep', needed by `all'. Stop.
13:59:56TheSevenhmm, what the hell...
14:00:44*[Saint] scratches his head...I haven't built in ~1.5 days...haven't seen that.
14:01:43*TheSeven is updating a working copy that had been abandoned for months
14:02:15Tornekugel: normally "invalidate" just means throwing them away
14:02:25Torne"flush" == "clean and invalidate"
14:02:57kugelbut throwing away doesn't imply write-back for me
14:03:05TorneThat's what I mean
14:03:09Torneinvalidate *doesn't* write back
14:03:15kugelit does
14:03:19Torneno it doesn't
14:03:20Tornenot on ARM
14:03:29TheSevenit does on 940t at least
14:03:31TorneNo, it doesn't
14:03:35kugelour invalidate_dcache does write-back
14:03:36Tornei assure you
14:03:42Tornethen that's not doing an invalidate
14:03:45Tornethat's doing a clean+invalidate
14:03:53TorneARM's terminology is clean, invalidate, or clean+invalidate
14:03:59TheSevenarm is calling that "clean and flush" usually
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14:04:12kugelTorne: hence our confusion
14:04:21Torneno, ARM don't use flush with regards to dcache
14:04:37Tornethey talk about flushing prefetch buffers, or branch target caches
14:04:44kugelI also thought it doesn't write back
14:04:45Tornebut they only use clean, invalidate and clean and invalidate for caches
14:04:56Torneso our names are wrong
14:05:00*TheSeven thinks they should be called "writeback" and "discard"
14:05:09Tornebut the names you are suggesting, i don't think are very good either :)
14:05:32*TheSeven still isn't sure how to call the current invalidate function, which is doing both
14:05:43Tornei assume it does c14, 0 ?
14:05:52TorneARm call that "Clean and invalidate entire data cache"
14:05:58Tornein ARMARM
14:06:50TheSevenwhat about writeback, discard and flush as the new names?
14:06:53Tornei don't like the name flush for *anything*
14:06:53kugelI think we should have names which work for all archs (and make sense for the reader), if if that aren't the ones used by the vendor
14:07:01Tornebecause different OSes/vendors use that to mean different things
14:07:09kugeleven if*
14:07:13TheSevenwriteback/discard should be clear at least
14:07:13Tornesome OSes/chips think flush implies writeback and some think it implies invalidation without writeback
14:07:23Torneso I vote to not use the term flush at all
14:07:32TheSevenany ideas for the third name then?
14:07:47Tornewriteback and discard make sense, yes
14:08:19*kugel votes for trash over discard because it rhymes with cache :)
14:08:40[Saint]err...kinda ;)
14:08:59[Saint]if you saw "trashe" :P
14:09:06[Saint]argh! *say
14:09:17Torne[Saint]: cache is pronounced cash in british english
14:09:24Tornenot caysh
14:09:39[Saint] is "cash-aye"
14:10:24Tornethat's dumb
14:10:27kugelthat sounds weird to me (unless you also pronounce "aye" differently)
14:11:38*kugel also prefers commit over writeback
14:12:26*Torne doesn't think clean is controversial, but commit and writeback are also perfectly clear so whichever.
14:12:46Tornei don't think you can come up with a single-word name for clean+invalidate which is unambiguous, anyway
14:13:13[Saint]clelidate? ;p
14:13:22*Torne beats [Saint] with a stick
14:13:34kugelTorne: clean (for me) implies the cache is dirty, but normally you use clean when the ram is dirty (dirty in the sense of old with incorrect content)
14:13:52Tornebut that's what the cache being dirty means
14:13:58Tornethe cache being dirty *means* it has newer content
14:14:24Torneram being dirty would mean that it's newer than, say, a copy on disk
14:14:59kugeland what's it called if the ram has newer content than cache?
14:15:11kugelalso dirty ram?
14:15:14TorneThat's called "your system is already broken"
14:15:23TorneThat's not a situatoin which is allowed to arise, ever, in a functoining system
14:15:34kugelthat's called "we use dma"
14:15:43Torneno, it's not
14:15:57Torneif you are going to use DMA it is your responsibility to eliminate all the cachelines that are relevant *fist*
14:16:08Tornesuch that the newer content in ram has no corresponding cacheline
14:16:19Torneotherwise the system is broken, because the cache can choose to do writebacks at any time without your knowledge.
14:16:43Torneso no, that situation can never legitimately arise
14:16:59Torneno matter what the context (DMA, SMP, etc)
14:17:04kugelI see, why does invalidate (without writeback) even exist then=
14:17:25Tornebecause sometimes you know it's irrelevant whether that data was written or not
14:17:37Tornee.g. when you are about to free that bit of memory and reuse it for a different purpose
14:17:46Torneand thus you want the performance benefit of not forcing a writeback
14:17:57Torneit is very infrequently used, yes
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14:18:14*TheSeven realizes that loads of cache coherecy calls are broken, when thinking things through
14:18:26TorneTheSeven: this is not surprising, cache coherency is hard :)
14:18:30TheSevenbasically every dcache_invalidate call
14:18:44kugelTorne: it's even harder when the functions have misleading names
14:18:58Tornebtw, this is why Symbian has, instead of exposing cache clean/invalidate operations to drivers, just got functions called "SyncMemoryBeforeDmaRead" and "SyncMemoryAfterDmaRead" and the equivalents for write
14:19:01TheSevenIIUC that would only be needed for dma that changes things in-place
14:19:16TheSevenah, wait
14:19:25TheSevenwe need to kill the cachelines even if they're clean
14:19:41TorneTheSeven: if you're about to do a DMA read, you can just invalidate the lines in questoin
14:19:50Torneyou don't care about cleaning them because the DMA will overwrite the data anyway
14:19:59*TheSeven works on platforms that can't deal with individual cache lines
14:20:04Tornewell yes
14:20:13Torneyou can always implement "invalidate line X" in terms of "invalidate entire cache"
14:20:16Torneit's just slower
14:20:20Torneit's equivalent from a safety/correctness pov
14:20:28TheSevenit isn't for discarding
14:20:37TheSevenonly for commit+discard
14:20:44TorneOh, er, yes
14:20:56TorneBut that just means you implement "discard line x" as "commit+discard entire cache"
14:21:00Tornethis is always safe
14:21:03kugelso what names should we use now?
14:21:04*TheSeven thinks "commit", "discard" and "commit_discard" are probably the best names
14:21:09Tornebecause the writebacks could've always happened at any time anyway
14:21:16Torneso forcing them to happen cannot make the system wrong
14:21:19Torneunless it was wrong already
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14:21:25TorneTheSeven: yes, probably
14:21:32TorneTheSeven: that seems pretty unambiguous to me
14:21:34kugelTheSeven: but trash and cache rhyme!
14:21:48TheSeventrayshe? :D
14:22:18kugelother than that, I'm fine with those
14:23:03Tornemaybe we could do with a careful review of all our cache stuff at some point :)
14:23:18Tornesince if we're wrong in one or two places that could cause just about anything to go wrong on those platforms
14:25:59kugelwe could alias discard and trash :)
14:26:11kugelanyway, who's going to do it?
14:27:58kugelwe could add the new names as aliases for now, and then check every call of them one by one (old name indicates that it needs checking)
14:30:50*kugel we could also make use of __attribute__((deprecated)) but that would add noise to the build system
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14:32:57Tornethat sounds like a good approach
14:33:12Torneare there other functions with the same problem, as well?
14:33:31Tornedifferent arches/mmu styles alrady have slightly different names for some of this stuff, don't they?
14:33:38Tornethe cpucache_* stuff and so on
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14:36:17kugelaliases don't need the ".type <func_name>, %function" stuff?
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15:08:46Mode"#rockbox +o TheSeven" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
15:10:49*TheSeven wonders if the hid works with windows 7 at all
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15:11:02TheSevenit isn't detected properly over here
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15:11:31Mode"#rockbox -o TheSeven" by TheSeven (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
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15:22:40kugelTheSeven, Torne:
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15:25:33TheSevenkugel: maybe dcache_* might be a better name, as it doesn't deal with icache
15:25:51kugelwhich one?
15:25:56TheSevenat the top
15:26:15TheSevenIIUC we should basically have the following functions, regardless of the target we're running on:
15:26:23kugelcpucache_commit_discard deals with icache (on the platforms that have it)
15:27:11kugelI think it's cpucache to hide i/dcache separation from non-target tree code
15:27:21kugelor any cache details in fact
15:27:26TheSevendo we really want to hide that?
15:27:46kugelI don't know, I just renamed :)
15:28:31TheSevendcache_commit_range, dcache_discard_range, dcache_commit_discard_range and icache_discard_range should basically catch everything
15:28:56kugelindeed, cpucache_* is basically only used where *only* the icache needs to be discarded (loading code), but on CF and PP it only deals with dcache
15:28:56TheSeventhey can be handled efficiently on targets that support it, or just flush the whole cache on targets that don't
15:29:17shuffle2hi. i came here yesterday looking for info about ipodlinux usb support. since then i've realized that rockbox is much more advanced in this regard (not to mention ipodlinux has been inactive for years...)
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15:30:02shuffle2anyways, is the best place for info the code itself? I've noticed the wiki claims the usb on this particular PP is undocumented...while rockbox appears to use usb just fine on my ipod ;p
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15:30:27TheSevenundocumented doesn't mean that nobody reverse-engineered it :)
15:31:37kugelI'm not sure if *_range is enough on targets that have MMU
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15:32:53kugelerr, I mean where different ram regions are used (i.e. iram and ram), and where there are not adjacent
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16:33:47*pamaury read the discussion on invalidate vs flush vs ... and think invalidate is a confusing name for write-back
16:33:55pamauryit explain all my problems !
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17:22:54Tornekugel: I object to changing the comments on the individual mcr instructions
17:23:17Torne"Clean and invalidate line by MVA" is the ARM ARM definition of what cp15 c7 c14 does.
17:24:11Torneusing different terminology to explain what a specific instruction for a specific processor does, compared to that processor's manual, doesn't seem useful
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17:24:56Torneand i'm still not sure what the cpucache_* ones refer to
17:25:13Torneif they mean both caches we should be more explicit about that
17:25:19Torneif it just means one or the other then call it one or the other
17:25:32Torneand arches where the caches are not separate will just have two names for the same actual functionality
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17:39:01kugelTorne: ok, restoring
17:39:38Tornekugel: if you wanted to be clear you could have a comment at the top explaining that the generic name "discard" is referred to by ARM as invalidate, in the ARM-specific code, even
17:42:11*TheSeven wonders what those cpucache_* functions are good for any if we should just get rid of them
17:43:09*Torne has no idea, has not really paid attention to the cache stuff before now.
17:46:59TheSeventhose seem to have been an attempt at a unified cross-architecture cache api providing the functions needed outside of the target tree (to execute dynamically loaded code)
17:47:33Torneright.. but it sounds from the discussoin earlier like they only take care of the icache (except on arches where the cache is unified)
17:47:44Torneand the names don't imply that at all
17:47:58kugelthey take care of both
17:48:51Tornehaving one set called cpucache_* and the othe rset called *_dcache is weird in any case
17:48:55kugelwell, cpucache_invalidate does for both, cpucache_flush only for dcache
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17:49:22kugelI think the _dcache ones are only for within the target tree
17:49:45Misanthropos_hi there. the usb status of the sansa clip+ changed from no* to a yellow yes*. does it mean you can use usb now with the sansa in rockbox?
17:49:56Torneif the point of cpucache_whatever is to be used in generic code I'd suggest making the operations even *more* generic
17:50:10Tornelike the examples i mentioned above: SyncCache{Before,After}DMA{Read,Write}
17:50:17kugelthe generic code (high level firmware/, apps/) should only call cpucache_*
17:50:22Tornesuch that the semantic is to specify *why* you need a cache operation done
17:50:25Tornenot what cache operation to do
17:50:36TheSevenTorne: they don't only care about the icache, they need to commit the dcache and drain the write buffer before they discard the icache to make sure the loaded code is actually in ram
17:50:39kugelthat seems to be the convention from looking at it, I don't know if that's official or anything
17:50:55Tornekugel: right, bt i don't think it's apps/ business to know about cleaning and invalidating at all
17:51:20Torneif the purpose is "i'm about to load some code to here" and "i'm done loading some code to here" then it seems nicer to say so :)
17:51:45Tornei mean, we're a long way from it for now but SMP systems have multiple levels of cleanliness of caches, which are needed for different purposes
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17:52:06kugelwell, apps/ doesn't even use those anymore (since my load_code.c work) but some plugins and codecs use it
17:52:22Torneright, but same principle, no?
17:52:36Torneit makes more sense to specify the operatoins, where possible, in terms of actual functional semantics
17:52:39kugelI think plugins don't load code (except overlay?), so they must have another reason
17:52:48Torneand let the target-specific code decide entirely for itself what that has to mean
17:52:49kugelmaybe dual-core stuff
17:52:59pamauryMisanthropos_: yes but there are still a few glitches
17:53:46kugelTorne: yes, I think so
17:53:56vaguerantFolks, I run a Clip+, and browsing the SVN it looks like funman recently pushed USB support for AMS Sansas, but despite updating both bootloader and Rockbox on my end, I'm still not seeing USB support. Have I misinterpreted something?
17:54:13Tornekugel: so "before and after dma read/write" is one set of operations, the implementation of which depends on architecture
17:54:23Torneit happens that the implementations are fairly similar on RISC but x86 is not :)
17:54:35Tornebecause x86 is fucking crazy and has full coherency
17:55:11TheSevenvaguerant: I'm not sure if that is enabled by default yet
17:55:15Misanthropos_pamaury, rhx
17:55:31vaguerantTheSeven: Ahh, that makes sense.
17:55:37pamauryvaguerant: I fixed the code and funman made some cosmetic changes. Normally it should work but we reached this point this yersterday and night, so as I said, there might be problems left
17:56:19n1spamaury: is it enabled in current builds?
17:56:31pamauryfunman told me it might work on fuzev2 (I can't check), it works for me on clip+ but I need to investigate a random problem. I'm not sure it's enabled by default however
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17:57:20pamauryhum no, looking at the code it's disable by default for now
17:57:26vaguerantIs that a runtime or compile-time thing? I do have an environment set up if necessary.
17:57:30vaguerantAhh, fair enough.
17:57:41saratogathe wiki says USB isn't in SVN yet
17:57:59pamauryuncomment //#define USE_ROCKBOX_USB in firmware/export/config/{target}.h
17:58:01Luca_Spamaury: I can confirm that it works (randomly) on FuzeV2. vaguerant: It's disabled by default, but can be enabled easily.
17:58:25pamaurysaratoga: the usb code for amsv2 has always been in SVN, it's just that it wasn't working :D
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17:59:16saratogaI guess the not in SVN could be made more clear
17:59:22saratogasomething like "NOT ENABLED"
17:59:47vaguerantRight, I did see that but it was in reference to an already-closed issue on the tracker.
18:00:05vaguerantClosed with the reasoning that the implementation was now working.
18:00:13vaguerantI just figured the wiki was out of date.
18:00:24pamauryyes funman tried to make nano2g code work and at the same time I fixed the svn code. It might be that one day the two drivers get merge
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18:13:03kugelTorne: commit?
18:14:19Tornekugel: it seem slike the right way to go
18:14:35Tornekugel: i can put "review cache stuff" on my ever growing todo list but who knows if i'll get there ;)
18:15:44kugelsaratoga: do you know why the mad_synth_thread does cpucache_invalidate() on thread exit?
18:16:09saratogakugel: probably to clean up the incoherrent cache on PP
18:16:12saratogalet me double check that
18:16:31kugelI guessed so, but I don't see why it would be incoherrent there
18:17:05*kugel also wonders what spc does with the caches
18:18:02Tornekugel: presumably because while the thread is running on the other core it knows that it's the only one touching those parts of memory
18:18:14Tornebut after it exits then the memory may be reused on a different core
18:18:21Torneso delayed writebacks would trash stuff
18:18:22saratogadoes cpucache_invalidate flush or just dump the cache?
18:18:47kugelwe try to not use terms like flush and dump anymore :P
18:18:59saratogadoes it write back or just erase
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18:19:12saratogai guess it doesn't matter since the COP thread shouldn't have any state at that point anyway
18:20:27*pamaury has no luck at making usb code fail, even after 20 attempts ! Why can't it fail the first time :)
18:21:14 Quit vaguerant (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
18:21:22Tornesaratoga: it doesn't matter by definition
18:21:37Tornediscarding cachelines without writing back is only ever a performance optimistaion
18:21:49Torneit's never any more correct/safe.
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18:21:54saratogawell i mean if I was accidentally deleting them without write back :)
18:21:57kugelTorne: once more, the current invalidate does write-back :)
18:22:05kugelthat applies for cpucache_invalidate as well
18:22:30Torneoh, yeah, it matters the other way raround :)
18:22:43Tornejust ignor eme ;)
18:23:13kugelfft seems to use commit&discard but it looks like it should only commit
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18:23:55kugelconsidering it also clears the icache, changing it to cpucache_commit should give a performance boost
18:24:13kugel(or a more obvious dual_core_sync_shared_mem())
18:28:53*Torne is trying to think of th ebest name for the abstract ops :)
18:29:10*Torne re-reads the definitions of point of coherency and point of unification in the ARM ARM.
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18:29:55pamauryApparently, I have a usb failure because of a CRC failure
18:30:08kugelI think overlay&spc load code, fft does calculations on both cores (in an alternating fashion), the cache op in mad can probably be just removed
18:30:17pamauryit seems that after that, the device resend the data but the wrong one :o
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18:32:48Tornekugel: so yeah, dma, code loading, and multicore threading on PP are the three cases we have
18:33:13Tornethere's a fourth case as well but we don't use it at present: needing to write out changes to pagetables so that the MMU walk sees them
18:33:25Tornemulticore is only a problem because PP's cache is retarded
18:33:30kugelcode loading is abstracted, except for the case where icode is copied from the binary to the location in iram
18:33:32Tornereal SMP systems all have MESI cache coherency between cores
18:33:41TornePP doesn't because it's thick as a plank
18:34:24Torneright, so all you need for that is a call "code_memory_modified()" or similar
18:34:38Torneto note that you have changed data in a region and need the caches twiddling before you execute from it
18:34:42Tornewhich ARM call "point of unification"
18:34:50kugelhm no, load_code_from_mem() does what we need
18:35:02TorneAh good
18:35:06Torneand presumably nothing in apps is doing DMA either
18:35:15kugelit was originally thought to be used for blobs which have a header but that's not a necessary requirement I guess
18:35:29Torneso app code should only need to care about this stuff at all if it's doing multicore
18:35:31pamauryhum, no something is strange, the device sends wrong data but with wrong crc and then good data, !
18:35:44Tornewhich is only a couple of plugins and codecs..
18:37:24pamauryand then the controller sends more data than requested by the driver :|
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19:05:53CIA-81New commit by kugel (r28045): Rename cache coherency functions. ...
19:07:55kugelI think sd_as3525*.c does it wrong
19:08:04CIA-81r28045 build result: All green
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19:10:30pamaurykugel: it what way ?
19:12:29kugelhm no, it should be alright
19:13:53kugelbut I'm thinking maybe the transfer buffer for unaligned transfers should also be cached?
19:14:14kugelwouldn't that speedup the following memcpy()?
19:14:38pamaurywhich buffers ?
19:14:58pamauryall transfers buffer should be aligned
19:15:15*pamaury thinks he understands one the random problem of the amsv2 usb code
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19:15:45kugelpamaury: no, not all are aligned
19:16:47pamaurylike ?
19:16:55CIA-81New commit by kugel (r28046): Change sd-as3525*.c to the new cache coherency function names.
19:17:03kugelbuffers on stack
19:17:42TheSeventhere should *never* be usb buffers on the stack
19:17:58kugelI'm not talking about usb
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19:18:51CIA-81r28046 build result: All green
19:20:43TheSevengevaerts: did you commit your fat buffer patch?
19:21:06amiconnkugel: If you want non-misleading function names you need to rename the cf one
19:21:33kugeldidn't I do that?
19:21:34TheSeveni'm still getting main thread stackoverflows at 8K main thread stack size when trying to add a track to a newly created playlist
19:21:36amiconnColdfire only has an instruction cache which is hence never written back
19:21:53gevaertsTheSeven: I committed the FAT stack thing, yes
19:22:52kugelamiconn: I see, but it's named after the cpucache_* scheme which doesn't care about i/d cache separation
19:23:00gevaertsTheSeven: maybe check if the on-stack buffer in fat_rename() isn't allocated for the entire function?
19:23:01amiconnkugel: cpucache_commit_discard -> cpucache_discard
19:23:20amiconnThere is nothing that could be committed.
19:23:53TheSevencommit_discard shluld be an alias then
19:23:54kugelI know (and I didn't know it only has icache), but the cpucache_* ones are abstrated from the underlying cache
19:24:07kugelTorne wants to work on cleaning those up
19:24:16amiconnThen I don't get the purpose of that commit
19:24:50*pamaury is confused by the usb problem, there seem to be an unusual amount of crc failures
19:26:13kugelthere's no cpucache_discard yet, and all code that needs to discard icache calls the one that also (potentially) touches the dcache
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19:26:56kugelI just renamed to the new scheme, analyzing what the functions do exactly is over my head
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19:27:43shuffle2maybe you shouldn't rename them then? :P
19:28:19kugelbut I think there ought to be something like cache_sync_after_code_load() for all platforms (modifying only icache)
19:29:08amiconnThat is what I'm thinking, actually. If the new scheme isn't implemented correctly, it's as misleading as the old one
19:31:16amiconncache_sync_after_codec_load() is something that needs very different handling depending on whether the platform has icache only, dcache only, both, or a unified cache, and on the number of cores
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19:32:38amiconnicache only -> needs invalidating, before or after load doesn't matter
19:32:50amiconndcache only -> needs flushing after load
19:33:05amiconndcache + icache -> flush dcache, invalidate icache
19:33:08kugeldcache only needs no action
19:33:27TheSevenkugel: it does
19:33:29amiconnunified cache -> no action, unless more than one core
19:34:11kugelTheSeven: why?
19:34:40TheSevenbecause you have to make sure that the loaded data gets actually written to RAM before trying to execute it (or fetch it into the icache)
19:34:43TheSevengevaerts: indeed, renaming a file from the file browser crashes. now why does that fill up an 8K-sized stack?
19:35:02amiconnkugel: dcache only means instructions are fetched from main memory. Loading a codec goes through data cache. This data needs to be written to main mem for the instruction queue to load from
19:35:32kugelah yes, I see
19:35:35gevaertsTheSeven: Depending on compiler behaviour that one *might* still have two sectors on stack
19:35:54TheSevenyeah, but not four
19:36:11gevaertsGood point
19:36:53gevaertsunless it's somewhere else, outside fat.c
19:37:03TheSevenmain thread stack peak is at 51% (so slightly above 4K) if I navigate directly to the debug menu upon boot
19:37:27gevaertsthat's a lot...
19:37:58TheSevenwell, it's the peak value
19:38:36TheSevenit surely has read/written some files at that point, so 2K of it are probably already coming from the FAT code
19:38:51kugelamiconn: it would be nice if the existing cpucache_* were also split up into the _commit, _discard, _commit_discard, but I don't have enoug knowledge
19:38:56TheSevenbtw. should we make that menu also show the current stack usage?
19:39:38kugelseems easy on cf and standard arm and pp502x, but the asm in pp5002 scares me
19:40:55amiconnTheSeven: Same on Clip+. On Recorder (hwcodec) it's 48% without voice, 59% with voice enabled
19:41:09amiconnSo those 51% certainly don't come from sector buffers
19:41:59gevaerts49% on gigabeat f with default settings
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19:43:54amiconnkugel: PP5002 is very easy too, even though we don't know the details of that cache controller
19:44:22kugelamiconn: how would you handle cf with that? do you want to call _commit and _discard separately? I assume you don't want _commit_discard do what it does now going by your statement
19:44:58amiconnIiuc *you* are suggesting this
19:45:14kugelif you want to maintain the single call, then _commit_discard also needs to discard the icache; in that case it's correct now (and I see nothing wrong with that)
19:45:18amiconn(judging from r28045)
19:45:54*amiconn would just have left those functions as they were
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19:52:47gevaertsTheSeven: if I read this correctly, fat_rename still uses 4716 bytes of stack :\
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19:55:55*gevaerts doesn't understand where
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19:57:34gevaertsThat's assuming I read "sub sp, sp, #4672" at the start of the function correctly
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20:06:03Guest27285anyone familiar with the channel setup in wavplay.c?
20:07:14*gevaerts finds another sector buffer :\
20:10:46n1sGuest27285: nope, but if you ask your question maybe someone can answer or someone sees it in the logs and answers
20:14:16Torneamiconn: i might see about changing all the cache stuff to just ask for semantics; see my discussion with kugel earlier
20:14:27Torneamiconn: but th eold names for the dcache stuff suck :)
20:14:48Tornebecause they're inconsistent with what most of the world uses those terms to mean
20:15:01Torneinvalidate doesn't actually write any data back to memory anywhere else that i'm aware of
20:15:07Tornecertainly ARM's docs don't use it that way
20:16:26Guest27285I don't quite understand how the val_rr (rl,ll,lr) are used to create the karaoke and custom channel setups, but I'm wondering if it's possible to create a mono crossover channel setup, so channel 1 (R) is a mono with a highpass filter, and channel 2 is a mono signal with a lowpass filter. Probably need a few more functions but it would be a useful feature for testing speaker setups and for mobile sound rigs
20:16:34gevaertsTheSeven: the remaining problem is the "struct fat_dir olddir" in fat_rename(), and possibly the 'struct fat_dir newdir' in mkdir_uncached() (in dir_uncached.c)
20:16:45*amiconn thinks the new names are just different, but in no way less confusing than the old one (also not more confusing either)
20:17:51TheSevengevaerts: urgh... i didn't expect those structs to turn up on the stack
20:18:02Tornei can't see how the new ones can be ambiguous
20:18:09TheSeventhey don't really belong there either, do they?
20:18:14Tornebut anyway, i would like semantic names
20:18:20gevaertsI think they don't, but...
20:18:24n1sGuest27285: wait wavplay.c, are you using an old archos?
20:18:34TheSevenwhy doesn't it just open those dirs in the pool?
20:18:44Tornepre/post dma, post code modify, and sync to point of coherency between cores on PP
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20:18:49gevaertsEven on a 512-byte stack system that uses more than 1KB...
20:20:53amiconnTorne: I pointed out the very first ambiguity. Furthermore a proper rename involves changing all calls imo, not just providing aliases
20:21:14Torneamiconn: the point was to change them as they were verified to be correct..
20:21:20amiconnIf the only problem was that invalidate actually did flush+invalidate, I would have renamed that single function
20:21:27Tornesince it's likely that they are not all now
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20:21:45Torne(flush is also a terrible word because that means different things on different systems also)
20:22:10amiconnReally syncing between cores on PP involves core hopping - a quite expensive operation
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20:22:27Guest27285OK, I think it's wavplay.c, I was browsing it late last night. I'm using an old olympus modrobe
20:23:35Torneamiconn: well, there is that. PP sucks, though ;)
20:23:45Torneits specialness is not a good reason for anything much.
20:24:10Torneand i'm not sure what inconsistency you mean, i haven't ooekd at the commit
20:24:28*Torne has a look
20:25:34amiconnThe cf case I mentioned
20:26:03Tornei don't see what's inconsistent about that
20:26:15Tornejust because it doesn't have a dcache doesn't mean anything calling it should care
20:26:27gevaertsTheSeven: maybe have a set of functions to get and release a DIR_UNCACHED in dir_uncached.c? Are we sure that that won't cause problems with e.g. people suddenly not being able to rename files if they're deep in the filebrowser or anything like that?
20:27:14Torneamiconn: the combinations should, ideally, *all exist* on all platforms
20:27:19Torneand then code can just call them without caring
20:27:32Torneand the ones that are copies of each other or noops can just be copies or noops
20:28:00*TheSeven has a look at why we need those dir handles in the first place
20:28:59Torneso yes, the maximum that cpucache_invalidate will do is clean and invalidate all caches, that's what it's used for in various places
20:29:06Tornethe fact that it doesn't actually need to do that much on CF is irrelevant
20:29:22Torneand yes, it would be nicer to reduce the calls to it to ask for weaker semantics if tha's what they really wanted
20:29:37Tornethat's why it's not renamed, so the old calls can be updated based on individual requirements
20:29:48TheSevenhm, the first one doesn't seem to be used at all, the second one doesn't seem to use its buffer
20:30:10kugelamiconn: cpucache_invalidate did write-back on other archs, which isnt what people expect
20:30:28amiconn[20:21:16] <amiconn> If the only problem was that invalidate actually did flush+invalidate, I would have renamed that single function
20:30:59Torneexcept you can't rename it to flush because that doesn't mean anything specific either
20:31:03*gevaerts blames LinusN
20:31:14Torneand that doesn't solve the problem that some things might be calling that when they actually want just weaker semantics
20:31:20Tornei.e. a potential performance improvement
20:31:27TheSevengevaerts: any idea what that first fat_opendir is good for? (the /* create a temporary file handle */ one)
20:31:30kugelwe wanted new names which are clear and not influenced by vendor manuals which use them differently
20:31:48Tornebut yes, the nicer way to do it would be to have sync_{before,after}_dma_{read,write} and similar meaningful high level ops
20:32:05Torneand substitute those everywhere, leavin the actual clean/invalidate/etc as internals of the target specific code
20:32:14Torneimo :)
20:32:57Tornebut that's a lot more work, someone'd have to figure out what the right hting is everywhere. and as you point out the PP core coherency is actually very complicated
20:33:01Tornebecause PP is stupid
20:33:58gevaertsTheSeven: no idea
20:34:38kugelif cpucache_commit_discard only discards the icache (because there's no icache), then it does the right thing. it's neither misleading or wrong. but if cpucache_invalidate does write-back then it's misleading
20:34:56kugelbecause there's no dcache*
20:35:04TheSevengevaerts: and the second one should probably be a fat_file
20:38:58gevaertsTheSeven: yes, looks like it
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20:49:57*TheSeven glares at /* The root cluster is cluster 0 in the ".." entry */
20:52:25*TheSeven also thinks that "dummyfile" isn't a very good variable name, for something that isn't really da dummy
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21:03:40gevaertsTheSeven: is my totally untested attempt
21:04:26*TheSeven thinks we can get completely rid of those
21:05:53TheSevencan we remove the newdir arg from fat_create_dir?
21:06:30 Quit Guest27285 (Quit: Page closed)
21:07:19gevaertshm, the memset in mkdir_uncached is unneeded at least :)
21:09:26TheSevenis fat_create_dir used from anywhere else?
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21:14:16gevaertsapparently not
21:16:42Jerompamaury and funman, thanks for the usb driver :)
21:25:48TheSevengevaerts: your patch seems to work fine and get rid of the stkovs
21:25:55TheSevenat least the file browser ones
21:25:59TheSevenlet's try some plugins
21:26:44TheSevenhm, goban locks up with only a backdrop on the screen
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21:27:25TheSevenblackjack runs into an undefined instruction
21:28:12TheSevenhm, all the plugins seem to be broken
21:28:21*TheSeven re-extracts the zip
21:29:15gevaertsr28045 only renames things, right? It shouldn't actually change anything?
21:30:25TheSevenre-extracting the zip fixed it, so there was probably file system or ftl screwup
21:30:38TheSevennow i entered blackjack, the menu came up, and when i hit "quit" it locked up
21:31:05gevaertsTheSeven: filesystem screwup after an untested fat.c patch? Unlikely! ;)
21:31:19TheSevenreally unlikely in that case
21:32:00TheSeventhat "quit blackjack" lockup is reproducible
21:33:43kugelfunman (logs): can you have a quick look at this one ? it changes pcm-as3525.c to use the new cache names but also reorders a bit and makes mono2stereo not use uncached adresses
21:34:29TheSevenand *loads* of plugins are still stuck with a backdrop-only screen
21:34:40TheSeveni just read back and compared the .rockbox folder, it's fine
21:35:07gevaertsDid you try plugins recently without this patch?
21:35:26TheSeventhat patch can't affect reading, so i'm deducing that either current svn is broken or they're stkov'ing
21:37:05TheSevenincreasing the stack size didn't affect the bavior
21:38:42*gevaerts tends to be suspicious of rename-only changes that affect binsize
21:39:06TheSeventhe fun part: blackjack works perfectly, apart from locking up when trying to quit
21:41:52TheSevenhm, the build system build works fine
21:50:04*TheSeven just had a lockup with the build server build, after unplugging and re-plugging the usb cable rather fast
21:50:18TheSeventhe backlight thread still works, but the main thread is dead
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21:53:55CIA-81New commit by nls (r28047): keybox: do not leak filehandle when the wrong password is entered.
21:54:15gevaertsAre multiple simultaneous operations from different threads using the same dirent pointer allowed?
21:55:59CIA-81r28047 build result: All green
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22:04:08kugelgevaerts: I doubt it
22:05:17kugelgevaerts: the sim uses a single dirent for all dir operations, so there should only be one thread ever using dirents :)
22:05:29gevaertsUnfortunately it doesn't help me anyway. I was thinking of being able to steal the dirent sector buffer for fat operations (and marking it as dirty), which would work well, except that most on-stack sector buffers are in functions that don't get a fat_dir pointer at all
22:05:48gevaertskugel: really? That sounds broken...
22:07:10kugelexactly my thought
22:07:25kugelit seems to work though, but I avoided that in the android port
22:07:38kugel(where the host's dirent is used anyway)
22:08:03gevaertsMaybe nothing in core keeps a dirent open for a longer time
22:09:39kugelmost parts that use dirent recursive over directories (so a single static dirent is broken there too) but they do so without breaking it :)
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22:18:37vaguerantNo luck for me with USB on Clip+, the USB icon displays but doesn't mount in either Windows or Linux.
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22:23:40n1svaguerant: it's not enabled in the the builds yet
22:25:15vaguerantn1s, right, I edited /firmware/export/config/sansaclipplus.h as suggested here though with no results.
22:25:35vaguerantWell. Some results, but not the kind which include USB access.
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22:26:36n1si'd suggest waiting until it is enabled in the svn source then unless you want to hack on t
22:30:02bertrikvaguerant, seems to work for me for reading (just tried), I'm not really comfortable using it for writing though
22:35:51TheSevenbtw, i can reproduce that usb unplug-replug main thread lockup
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22:40:00CIA-81New commit by kugel (r28048): Cleanup io.c a bit.
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22:41:44CIA-81r28048 build result: 156 errors, 0 warnings (kugel committed)
22:42:41CIA-81New commit by kugel (r28049): fix red.
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22:44:14*kugel can suddenly repro FS #11610 on mingw/wine now
22:44:45CIA-81r28049 build result: All green
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23:09:16ascheelQuick question. Using unstable for Fuze v2, after following and loading the firmware on, it reboots to the rockbox loading page, then says "Loading firmware" "File not found"
23:09:24ascheelBut not sure what I screwed up on. Any ideas?
23:09:27 Join kkurbjun [0] (
23:13:06pixelmasounds like you only installed the bootloader and not the build
23:13:37ascheelI threw my fuze back to MSC mode and noticed fuzpa.bin is no longer present. Awesome. Tossed it back on, now booting again
23:14:21 Quit simonrvn (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:14:44gevaertswell of course. The original firmware sees that there's a file called fuzpa.bin, which it then uses for a firmware upgrade, and it then deletes the file. That's normal
23:16:12ascheelfollowed the directions, pixelma. mkamsboot [OF] [bootloader] [outputfile.bin]
23:16:28pixelmaI don't mean that, I meant the build that is linked from the page - behind the "normal Rockbox build" link. You need to unzip this to the root of your player
23:16:31ascheelthen move outputfile.bin to device root and rename to fuzpa.bin (OF name)
23:16:47ascheelpixelma, understood
23:17:38ascheel*sigh* yeah I missed that somehow.
23:21:10ascheelAnd that has it rolling. Thanks again!
23:22:23 Join threeothree [0] (
23:26:39CIA-81New commit by kugel (r28050): Revert r27972 to fix FS #11610 (but in a way android builds still work).
23:27:13gevaertskugel: DEBUGF("aaa\n"); ?
23:27:16CIA-81New commit by kugel (r28051): Oops, remove left-over DEBUGFs.
23:27:26kugelgevaerts: :)
23:28:08alexbobPI wonder if anyone's working on porting gnugo to rockbox...
23:28:26alexbobPit has a nice go plugin but it's useless when I'm all alone :(
23:28:29CIA-81r28050 build result: All green
23:29:23 Join simonrvn [0] (
23:30:44CIA-81r28051 build result: All green
23:31:00 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:38:17 Quit parafin (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:41:28 Join clone4crw [0] (
23:42:38ascheelWhat wiki software do you guys use on
23:43:14ascheelSorry, that's more appropriate for #rockbox-community
23:43:25saratogasays foswiki
23:43:45ascheelsaratoga: thanks again. :)
23:47:14 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:49:27 Quit solexx (Quit: leaving)
23:50:44 Join Drise [0] (Drise@
23:51:38DriseHey guys. Do we know if the new Fuze v2's like the old Fuze v2's?
23:51:50Drise*work like
23:52:07 Join mulenmar [0] (
23:54:44 Part Drise
23:54:44 Join Drise [0] (Drise@
23:54:44 Part Drise
23:54:44 Join Drise [0] (Drise@

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