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#rockbox log for 2010-09-16

00:00:32 Quit edboyer93 ()
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01:02:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:08:05JdGordon|AlexP: bugger! I actually thought/hoped/(preyed) that crash was fixed...
02:08:22JdGordon|if I get time I'll take an axe to that code and fix it good and proper
02:08:30JdGordon|(for hacky definitions of proper)
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02:57:17shuffle2there's a way to make logf display current time or ticks, right? i saw it somewhere...
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03:13:00 Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.)
03:16:13shuffle2ehm anyways. how can i get accurate ms time?
03:21:29JdGordon|current_tick is really the closest you can get... the time from the rtc is 1s resolution isnt it?
03:24:28shuffle2about rtc: yes
03:25:07shuffle2i couldn't really tell if current_tick was more accurate or just some timer the kernel updated when it felt like (although that would be counter-intuitive :p)
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03:49:25 Join ToHellWithGA [0] (~ryan@unaffiliated/tohellwithga)
03:49:55ToHellWithGAi did not see on the iPod FAQ if support for peripherals was possible
03:50:23ToHellWithGAi would like to use the dock and remote i own to control my 5.5G iPod with rockbox
03:52:13JdGordon|some work
03:54:45ToHellWithGAi guess i cannot know until i try :)
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04:00:16shuffle2so is there any resolution assigned to the current_tick value?
04:00:32shuffle2it only increases by one in the period i'm interested in
04:00:47shuffle2which covers a few logf()s, so it must be pretty long
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04:29:23froggymanis the fuze v2 suppose to have USB stack enabled on current SVN?
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04:32:35Flash10Whats the link to be voiced here?
04:33:48JdGordon|why do you think you need to be voiced?
04:33:50dr_kludgeanyone know what "Undefined instruction at 0002B02C (0)" is trying to tell me with rb 3.4 running on an ipod 3g?
04:34:12JdGordon|no, but you really shold be on at least 3.6
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04:35:07dr_kludgeJdGordon|: tried it after 3.4 started falling down. after install, it reboots, flashes the rb usb logo, then reboots into apple disk mode.
04:35:39NickHansonNettry to reinstall it
04:36:15NickHansonNetRestore it with iTunes?
04:36:27dr_kludgei only hit irc when i'm fresh out of ideas ;)
04:36:36NickHansonNetWhats the error code?
04:37:05dr_kludge"Undefined instruction at 0002B02C (0)"
04:37:30NickHansonNetbtw did you reinstall the boot loader
04:37:55dr_kludgei think i did.
04:38:04dr_kludgebut i'll try again. nothing to lose at this point.
04:38:05NickHansonNetwhats the ipod model?
04:38:12dr_kludgeit was a freebie.
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04:39:45dr_kludgenah. straight-up, old-school 3g.
04:40:44NickHansonNetdr_kludge, try to submit your error code here
04:41:06NickHansonNetI have to go
04:41:24JdGordon|no dont do that
04:41:33JdGordon|that number is totally useless on such an old build
04:42:08 Quit NickHansonNet (Quit: might be back someday... never know)
04:43:15dr_kludgeJdGordon|: any suggestions?
04:45:17JdGordon|reinstall the bootloader, reinstall the full
04:47:28dr_kludgeis a restore necessary to clean house first?
04:48:10JdGordon|it might help
04:49:02dr_kludgedone and done.
04:49:08dr_kludgesame result.
04:50:23dr_kludgehmmm... wait a second. lemme try that with the new ipodpatcher.
04:50:34*dr_kludge grumbles at itself
04:53:23dr_kludge...and i get the same shit as before.
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05:17:21 Quit edboyer93 ()
05:24:33 Join Eson_38 [0] (~nolosabra@
05:25:20Eson_38someone can helpme i have iriver h340 and i want to install rockbox
05:25:33Eson_38if someone can talk in spanish will be great
05:26:38BHSPitMonkeyEson_38: use the installer?
05:26:52BHSPitMonkeyla installador...
05:27:15Eson_38i tried, but say that i need the original firmware to can change it
05:27:42Eson_38but this one come with the version 2.4
05:28:07Eson_38i guess the originas it's ver 1.04
05:32:10JdGordon|the instructions shuold tell you where to get the origional firmawre file
05:32:18JdGordon|the version doesnt really matter
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05:33:29Eson_38well, if the version doesnt matter i will try one more time, i hope this time can do it
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06:02:16 Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
06:02:48dr_kludgecan anyone tell me why rockbox running on an ipod 3g (old-school, not nano) would think it's connected to usb when it most definitely is not?
06:02:58dr_kludge(versions 3.5.1 and 3.6)
06:03:27funmandr_kludge: does it happen with a current build?
06:03:38dr_kludgeerrr... other than 3.6?
06:04:19funman3.6 is the last release, current builds are built with the last source code available (changes everyday), look at the top left of the website
06:04:33JdGordon|AlexP: hmm, your crash is a new one! I need to investigate properly but I dont have any idea why it should crash there, at that point the sbs has loaded (either yours or the fallback one)
06:05:24dr_kludgefunman: i c. let's try. gimme a minute.
06:06:46dr_kludgefunman: yes. until this morning, it was happily running 3.4. then i tried turning it on after the battery died and 3.4 threw "Undefined instruction at 0002B02C (0)" at me.
06:07:01dr_kludgeso i tried upgrading.
06:08:33dr_kludgeso, yeah, current build, same behavior.
06:09:05krazykitdoes it happen in the OF?
06:10:26dr_kludgekrazykit: nope. the apple fw seems to work just fine. i haven't tried loading any music on it, but it boots cleanly and the menus work.
06:12:01funmani know charging on ipod is special but don't know the details; you might wait until Torne is here, he's the ipod expert
06:12:37dr_kludgehrm. i gotta be off to bed, but i'll check in another time. thanks!
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06:38:18Gatz85shuffle2, hey i wanted to let you know thank you for that patch i think i might be able to get it to work and i start git-hub just for thank you again
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06:55:32funmanbtw did doom fans on fuzev1 try a thumb build to see if it reduces memory use?
07:02:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:35:46funmann1s: please take a look at FS #11608
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07:46:27CIA-81New commit by funman (r28092): usb_drv_reset() is only used in usb-drv-arc.c ...
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07:49:14CIA-81r28092 build result: All green
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07:54:38funmanwhat's going on with mpiohd?
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07:56:05JdGordon|looks like wasnt updated
07:56:12JdGordon|(I tinhk that is the filename)
07:57:04funmani just checked and it looks ok
07:57:30JdGordon|yeah, I just saw that diff... not sure.. wait for Zagor i guess
07:58:01funmanwww/buildserver/builds looks ok too
07:58:37JdGordon|does that file get updated on the server automagically thoguh?
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08:38:10rfid3I was wondering if there is a patch or something similar that will allow my iPod running Rockbox to NOT show the USB cable icon and stop playback when connected to USB?
08:38:48rfid3I know holding the menu button down does what I want, but it would be nice to have an option that kept it playing
08:38:56rfid3it = the music
08:41:10 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
08:42:18JdGordon|nope, not yet anyway
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08:44:28wodzrfid3: you can't at the same time have usb access and music playback
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08:44:42rfid3wodz, I only want it to charge
08:45:32wodzok, but this is why pluging usb stops playback
08:46:13rfid3it's because the ciggarette lighter connections in my car are lame and short out at times (bumps, some turns, etc), making the iPod stop playback and display the USB icon
08:46:20JdGordon|there have been a few attempted patches at making the usb connection behaviour configurable, but bassiclly noone has come up with a good way to do it that everyone can accept
08:46:21 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
08:47:09rfid3TheSeven, you really need MD5 hashes on your website for the iLoader, etc. downloads
08:47:45 Quit Maggux (Remote host closed the connection)
08:47:46rfid3just fyi :) lol
08:49:27rfid3TheSeven, I say this because I attempted to update from 1.x to 2.2 and the update process froze at about halfway through removing the iPod firmware partition.
08:49:47rfid3I left it for 2 hours... nothing happened.
08:50:00TheSeventhat wouldn't have been prevented by an md5 hash
08:50:11TheSevenit means that your ipod apparently had file system corruption
08:50:17TheSeven(a directory loop or something)
08:50:47rfid3well I updated, so does that mean it's fixed?
08:50:59TheSevenat least apparently something made it lock up while attempting to resize the fat32 partition, which consists mostly of changing directory entries
08:51:03wodzafter upgrade from (x)ubuntu 8.04LTS -> 10.04LTS usb handling on my thinkpad is screwed up to the point that I am not able to do any serious rockbox development as I am unable to test my changes on targets :/
08:51:21TheSevenif it froze during the repartitioning process, your fat32 partition is probably damaged now
08:51:34rfid3lol but it's just a partiton
08:51:37TheSevenbut i think iloader-related things should better be discussed at #freemyipod
08:51:51TheSevenand honestly i don't really have time to deal with that right now
08:52:05TheSevenlet's figure this out later today
08:52:25rfid3bleh alright. I'll see how it goes, and if it seems to be having problems I'll drop by #freemyipod
08:52:28JdGordon|wodz: ouch!
08:52:44rfid3Thanks for iLoader though, TheSeven :)
08:52:51rfid3great work
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09:02:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:15:05AlexPJdGordon|: Always glad to find a new way to break things :)
09:15:10AlexPCheers for looking at it
09:15:47AlexPIt may well be my sbs of course (although it worked with a version a few weeks ago), but still Rockbox should reject it not freeze if that is the case I susppose :)
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09:19:50 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
09:21:33JdGordon|AlexP: I'm of the general opinion that even if things break, they shouldnt burn the house down :p
09:21:42JdGordon|i.e it shouldnt be crashing even if you really messed up the sbs
09:22:01AlexPyeah, exactly :)
09:22:45JdGordon|although it did lead to some awesome displays when the sbs doesnt load and the wps backdrop is partially displayed
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09:55:11Tornefunman: unfortunately the 3g is the funky one we don't know how to manage properly - it doesn't charge from usb and we don't implement usb on it either
09:56:07funmanZagor: editing commit logs isnt possible atm
09:56:45Zagorok. the hook appears to allow it.
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10:01:05funman% svn pe svn:log −−revprop -r 28078 svn://
10:01:05funmansvn: Repository has not been enabled to accept revision propchanges;
10:01:05funmanask the administrator to create a pre-revprop-change hook
10:02:20Zagoroh, silly me. only the hook template exists.
10:03:08Zagortry now
10:03:27 Quit sasquatch (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
10:04:28funmanSet new value for property 'svn:log' on revision 28078
10:05:01funman;revision=28078 <- it's the new msg
10:05:27ZagorI'll set up a mail trigger for that too, so we have traces
10:05:44JdGordon|funman: it wasnt a typo anyway
10:05:45funmangood idea, will that need changes to buildsystem too?
10:05:51JdGordon|it was a copy/paste snafu
10:05:54funmanJdGordon|: ah sorry. feel free to edit ;)
10:06:30Zagorfunman: no, log changes doesn't trigger new builds
10:06:31funmanbtw, git isn't updated, perhaps it's possible to use some magic commands to do that
10:07:23Zagorgood question. git rebase doesn't seem to do anything.
10:07:52Tornewell, it has no way of knowing, the commit is old
10:08:03Torneyou probably have to throw away the history and pull again :)
10:08:24funmanyeah right, history is only stored on the server so svn checkouts don't need update either
10:11:25 Join wodz [0] (
10:12:03wodzZagor: something is still wrong with hd200 build - maybe some file needs to be updated on www
10:12:52funmanwodz: what's going on with Ubuntu 10.4 usb?
10:13:28Zagorwodz: hmm, checking
10:16:38wodz1) For most of the time mpio hd200 doesn't even trigger usb plug event - not even single line in dmesg. If it is detected it mostly works ok. I can't see the pattern when it is detected. It doesn't matter if I use OF or rb bootloader or rb itself. 2) My ipod mini is detected ok but I am unable to transfer files to it. Sometimes it transfer 1-2 files ok and transfer freeze. After couple of minutes I have timeout/resets lines in dmesg. I checked t
10:16:38wodzhis devices on other machines and both work ok.
10:17:13wodzas with mpio it doesn't matter if I use rb or apple emergency disk mode
10:17:27funmandid you try to force full speed? (rmmod ehci_hcd maybe)
10:18:06wodzit seems that ubuntu decided to build ehci stright into kernel
10:18:41funmanah right, same here
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10:19:01wodzI tried recent fedora live cd and symptoms are the same - so I suspect there were some changes to usb handling in recent kernels
10:19:28gevaertsWhat kernel version is that?
10:19:45funman2.6.32 presumably
10:20:03gevaertsI've been running 2.6.32 here for ages
10:20:16wodz3) using build in SD reader exibits similar behaviour - card is either not detected or transfers fail at various stages
10:20:28funman2.6.35 (ubuntu 10.10) also has CONFIG_USB_EHCI_HCD=y (not m)
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10:22:24wodzohh I got new state - waiting long enough I *got* something in dmesg - hub_port_status failed (err = -32)
10:23:03funmani got that when playing with (buggy) usb for amsv2. the solution is rmmod ehci_hcd; modprobe ehci_hcd :/
10:23:40wodzthe problem is uncommon as google do not throw 1000000000 pages about usb problems on r61 or ubuntu 10.04
10:23:42JdGordon|I used to get that alot also
10:25:12 Quit JdGordon| (Client Quit)
10:25:31wodzusb camera, 2 of my pendrives, toshiba external HDD all work ok
10:28:10wodzthe only thing I can think about is that since I had some problems with booting from pendrive I updated bios (as description of update states that this solves problem with usb booting). But I don't know if this was before or after ubuntu upgrade
10:28:53funmanmaybe try debian testing kernel
10:29:37wodzthis is what I get If I wait long enough
10:31:04*funman has a strong déjà vu
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10:31:23funmani see this if clipv2 PHY clock is set incorrectly
10:32:11wodzmpio have hardware usb-ide bridge - the chip is know to work on linux (but with some quirks)
10:32:50wodzto me it looks like usb controller is entering some powersaving state or something
10:33:28wodzthe problem is that machine stops booting with acpi=off so I can't check this hypothesis
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10:40:43 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
10:41:35kugelgit probably won't see the new commit message even with a new clone. IIUC the new message is stored in the revprops, unlike the original message. and git-svn doesn't really supprt rev props
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10:43:14JdGordWe should move to gut then!
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10:46:58funmani should have made this politcal promise for rsb vote: "I will get us rid of subversion!!"
10:47:18AlexPheh, we have campaigning now? :)
10:49:10*JdGord gives all 5 votes to funman
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10:51:04wodzfunman: do You experience high load from events/0,1 kernel proceses also?
10:51:46funmanwodz: nope, this laptop is running Debian btw (i have ubuntu 10.10 on desktop but it seems to work fine here)
10:54:19wodzI am really out of ideas :/
10:55:22amiconnTorne: We do implement usb detection on G3 though, in order to reboot into the OF
10:57:00amiconnfunman: Does the nano G2 usb code not differentiate between usb charger and actual host?
10:57:13amiconn(re rfid3's problem)
10:58:16 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:58:55funmandid pamaury post a patch for USB audio on flyspray? i can't find it
11:02:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:06:37wodzThere ware some talk about including png in core - was there any consensus?
11:06:49wodzs/png/png support/
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12:32:26Stummihm, does somebody know an gameboy-emulator which can handle the savefiles from gnu-/rockboy and can emulate a gamelink between two instances or so?
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12:47:50soapStummi, there has been recent talk about just such a thing on the forums. Not being a GameBoy player myself, however, the details escape me.
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12:51:33Stummisoap, hm, i can find some rockboy-topics with search, bot no one, that realy fits to my question. Do you have a link for me?
12:52:26Stummiah, found something now
12:52:47soapNope, but the concept of copying rockboy games to a PC-side emulator (for "cheating") and then back was discussed VERY recently.
12:53:28Stummiyes, that was what i found now
12:54:18Stummiso, my dream of becoming pokemon master is not destroyed yet :)
12:58:21Stummibtw, i hacked a playback-control into the menu of rockboy now. It works fine for me for volume control, but i can crash the game by trying to play a song over this menu (sansa fuze v2 has not enought RAM for both, rockboy and playing.)
12:59:11StummiI hoped using a standalone volume-control instead is as easy as with the playback-control, but that dont seems so. (And my C skills are not very good)
13:01:00pixelmayou mean controlling the ingame sound's volume?
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13:02:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:05:07wodzTorne: (for logs) I hit ipod startup issue with r2807 and with some slightly earlier version a few times recently (mini 1G). I haven't seen this problem for ages.
13:06:02pixelmawodz: your revision number is missing a digit (just for accuracy)
13:08:00wodzyeh : r28072
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13:37:09Tornewodz: yes, it's not fixed
13:37:18Tornewodz: but there's nothing else I can do, really...
13:39:34Tornethere's the two optoins for a fix: one of them doesn't work on every device, and one of them doesn't work on every device *and* causes weird cosmetic issues on shutdown *and* causes some people's devices to spontaneously wake up for no reason
13:39:34Torneunless someone works out a third thing to do, there's nothing we can really do about it
13:39:34wodzthe point is that while it is not fixed I haven't seen this for very long and now, after upgrade I hit it 4 times within 3 days
13:39:34Torneright, but there's no way i can draw a useful conclusion from that
13:39:34DBUGEnqueued KICK Torne
13:39:34Torneit's, probably, something about the state of ram, and/or the state of some other mystery things :)
13:39:35Torneand i'm explicitly clearing most of the iram on shutdown..
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13:39:54Torneso, i don't think we can narrow this down by any method other than painstaking reversing of the boot code..
13:40:03Tornewhich i did for a while but man is that stuff boring
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13:41:03Tornesoo yeah, not only do i not know how to fix it i don't really know how to work out how to fix it either :)
13:41:48wodzyou mean disasembly of apple boot code?
13:42:12wodzthe main problem is lack of documentation imo\
13:42:25wodzhow big is bootcode?
13:42:25Tornei've been disassembling the latest boot code for the ipod video somewhat, but haven't found out anything useful yet
13:42:29TornePretty big
13:42:37Torne30kb or so
13:42:41Tornelemme check
13:42:50Torneand there are, of course, 30+ versions of it
13:42:54wodzcomparable to our bootloader
13:42:58Tornesince there's two or three or four versions for *every model*
13:43:05Torneand maybe not all of them are broken in the same way
13:43:14Tornewhich would explain why some people see it more than others, or not at all
13:43:22Torneand why the workarounds work for some people and not others
13:43:45Torneit's also full of dead code and support for hardware that doesn't exist
13:44:01Tornee.g. it detects a PP processor with model number having a 6 in it
13:44:22wodzis it single thread or rtos kernel + boot task?
13:44:30Tornejust a single thread.
13:45:09TorneOh, wait, it's, like, 600kb
13:45:13Tornethough some of that is images, or empty space :)
13:45:21Torneit's not 600kb of code, but the code is not all neatly together either
13:45:34wodzI don't know arm asm nor PP unfortunately
13:45:50Tornethe boot code is not a seperate "blob", it doesn't have an entry in the flash's image table
13:45:58Torneso you can't tell accurately which parts of the flash are supposed to be considered part of it
13:46:14Torneonly diskmode, diagmode, the apple logo and the video chip firmware are seperate images
13:46:18wodzdo we know JTAG pinout?
13:46:34Tornenot sure if there even is one
13:46:56Tornedisassemblig it is particularly annoying because there's no single set of PP docs anywhere
13:47:05Tornethere's the ipodlinux wiki, and there's bits on our wiki, and there's the source for ipl and rockbox
13:47:12Torneand the source for rockbox is the closest to authoritative of all of those
13:47:27Tornethe ipodlinux wiki is the part that's most like normal platform documentation but it's also really incomplete and inaccurate in places
13:48:11Tornei found it waaay harder to get anywhere with than the beast's bootcode which i've reversed a lot more of
13:48:18Tornebecause the imx31 manual is right there on the internet :)
13:48:25Torneand so is the imx31 WinCE baseport
13:48:29JdGordonalex: can you lionk your theme again please?
13:48:31Tornewhich most of the beast bootcode is compiled from :)
13:48:49JdGordonoh never mind... still in irc backsrcoll
13:49:00AlexPoh, that's a bit big
13:49:02JdGordonbeast right?
13:49:08AlexPIt seems I forgot to remove the fonts :)
13:49:12AlexPyep, beast
13:49:33wodzyeh putting togeteher all information about PP would be helpful but it rather boring task
13:50:04Tornewodz: well yes, actually writing a homebrew PP manual would be really useful
13:50:14Tornebut the people with the skills *and* patience to do that kind of thing are really, really rare
13:50:31Tornewe need to kidnap martin korth and make him do it
13:50:45Torne <- best reverse engineered manual for undocumented hardware ever
13:51:53wodzhmm we know something about jtag in PP
13:53:26Tornewell yes but that doesn' tmean those lines are even connected on the ipod
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14:00:34JdGordonAlexP: what on earth have you done!
14:00:44AlexPno idea :)
14:00:47JdGordonyou didnt say the sbs partially gets displayed
14:01:11AlexPThe screen goes all sort of patchy then the device freezes :)
14:01:13CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:01:13*JdGordon likes interesting bugs
14:01:43AlexPAt least you can reproduce :)
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14:33:51JdGordonwith the std gnu99 change... would there be obvjections to chaning FOR_NB_SCREENS(i) to allow it do put "int i" in the for loop?
14:34:05JdGordon#define FOR_NB_SCREENS(i) for(i = 0; i < NB_SCREENS; i++) => #define FOR_NB_SCREENS(i) for(int i = 0; i < NB_SCREENS; i++)
14:34:29JdGordonprobably add a new one to do it though, and use enum screen_type instead of int
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14:36:53ShapeshifterHello there. Long time no see. I just dug up my precious iRiver H140 because I want to digitalize some vinyl discs I have. I thought instead of hooking my desktop up using a real long cable and worrying about interferences or ground loops, I'll just use this device as I think the sound chip is really good. Now, has anyone got specific tips or watch-out-fors when using the H140 with rockbox for recording? I just did a test recording ...
14:36:59Shapeshifter... and the lower tones seem quite lacking. I'm recording as WAV, yet the sound played directly from vinyl seems better than playing back what I record back to the amp.
14:37:41ShapeshifterAnd I'm unsure about how loud I should set the amp. I've set the V options for left and right to 0 and instead turned up the amp louder, thinking that that should give me a wider dynamic range, right?
14:38:18*JdGordon prods petur incase he isnt watching... ^
14:38:21ShapeshifterNeither do I know what to do with the volume option on the device it self. Turning it all the way up or down?
14:38:31*petur wakes up
14:40:07peturRockbox takes the bytes from the ADC and puts them in the file, no processing is done. So lack of bass must be a hardware problem
14:40:33peturthe volume option is the volume of the earphones you can use to monitor
14:41:17peturif you listen to the headphones, is there also a lack of bass?
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14:43:14Shapeshifterpetur: yeah at least I perceive it as such. Turning up the bass fixes it mostly. What should I do with the V options for left and right channels?
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14:44:14petureh? You have Volume (monitor volume of headphones) and then L and R gain, which is your recording gain. Keep gain below 20dB to reduce noise
14:44:52Shapeshifterokay, but I shouldn't set the gain to 0? I mean, what is the gain for? I can just turn up the volume on the amplifier.
14:45:09peturyeah, in that case set gain to 0
14:45:29peturwhat output do you use on the amp?
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14:50:35JdGordonpixelma: did you see the patch i added to one of your skin bugs?
14:51:26pixelmahmm no, I should have gotten a mail from flyspray but didn't yet
14:51:39*pixelma needs to check something
14:51:44Shapeshifterpetur: The phono output. On the back of the amp, there also are 3x "REC" and "PLAY" red/white type plugs for "DAT/TAPE", not sure if I could use one of those.
14:53:00Shapeshifterpetur: this is the back of my amp
14:53:08Shapeshifterwell not mine, but I got the same one.
14:54:57peturphono is normally an input...
14:55:48peturhow about pre-out or one of the REC outputs (PLAY)?
14:56:42peturdon't tell me you connected the iriver to the turntable directly, that would explain the lack of bass
14:56:55CIA-81New commit by jdgordon (r28093): skin engine: completly rework the sbs title handing code ...
14:58:27Shapeshifterpetur: oh uhm, not "phono", I meant "phones" ;) The 6.35mm TRS plug
14:58:49peturah... still not good... you need a line-out
14:59:02ShapeshifterI see. I'll try one of the REC outputs...
14:59:35peturthe line outputs will be fixed, so you need to adjust gain on the iriver
15:00:08pixelmaweird, I'm watching the task (status is correctly listed) and flyspray has the correct mail address. The comment was added yesterday and even if the mail spent a long time at my provider (which it sometimes does), it shouldn't be that long... :\
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15:04:44*petur goes to sleep again... ping me if needed :)
15:05:00JdGordonZagor: build should have finished 5min ago? the propset hook didnt break it did it?
15:05:41Shapeshifterpetur: this is much better with the line-out. thanks. Now I'll just need to get rid of this horrible ground loop between turntable and amp.
15:05:42AlexPJdGordon broke the build server!
15:06:02gevaertsShapeshifter: lots of jump cables will help :)
15:06:28Shapeshiftergevaerts: jump cables? I was thinking of buying a ground loop isolator
15:06:43gevaertsShapeshifter: jumper, sorry. The ones you use to start cars
15:06:55gevaertsIdeal for making ground issue go away!
15:07:18gevaertsIf you have some lying arounf, definitely worth a try
15:08:18gevaertsNot that I know much about audio...
15:08:50n1saren't ground loops basically just from a difference in ground levels?
15:08:51Shapeshifterground loops.... I don't get why devices aren't built is such a way that they simply don't occur.
15:08:58peturthe idea is that if all equipment is grounded properly, there can be no such loop
15:09:18n1s=> ground stuff properly :)
15:09:25gevaertsn1s: that's how I understand it, yes. And those jumper cables are the easiest way I know of to get them to go away
15:09:36Shapeshifterthe turntable doesn't have a ground wire to the power socket, it's just two-wire. Instead, it has a ground wire going along the audio cable to be attached at the rear of the amp. apparently, this isn't doing a proper job.
15:09:47n1sgevaerts: i agree, seems like a KISS aproach :)
15:10:06gevaertsShapeshifter: is the amp properly grounded?
15:10:29ShapeshifterBut I don't get this whole business anyway, because simply *touching* the audio cable from the turntable to the amp induces an even stronger humm. how can that even be, the cable is wrapped in rubber/plastic
15:10:39Shapeshiftergevaerts: mhh, not sure *goes looking.
15:10:54peturyou're a living antenna?
15:10:56gevaertsShapeshifter: if not, another cable to the nearest water pipe or similar :)
15:11:46peturShapeshifter: the signal from the turntable is very low, so noise can come to it easily
15:12:31*petur always wondered why turntables didn't come with amp and correctionfilter build-in
15:13:12JdGordonbecuase the audio equipment wasnt good enough that you would notice the difference? or the tech was too expensive?
15:13:20JdGordonI assume modern ones do have that
15:13:23Shapeshifterwell damn. the amp only is two-wire as well. no grounding wire. I guess I could try to just attach a cable to the amps casing and run it to a radiator...
15:14:20Shapeshifterpetur: yes but why does touching the rubber coating of the audio cable make a difference? shouldn't it be insulated?
15:14:54*petur thinks the rest of the conversation really belongs in -community
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15:46:03JdGordonI'm going to bed pretty soon... if the builds ends up colourful can someone fix it? or i'll do it in the morning
15:50:54Zagoroops. Perl error: Illegal division by zero at line 1078.
15:55:21CIA-81r28093 build result: 154 errors, 6 warnings (jdgordon committed)
15:55:41JdGordonoh bugger
16:01:46CIA-81New commit by jdgordon (r28094): fix red
16:03:19CIA-81r28094 build result: All green
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16:12:23AlexPFor the beast, which way round do the tone controls work? The manual lists treble and bass, but the actual thing has 5 band tone control
16:12:55AlexPCan I assume that e.g. band 1 = bass if I don't want to arse around with an equalizer, but just wan't a little more bass?
16:13:23n1sAlexP: think so
16:13:45n1salso could you fiel a bug against the manual as that is clearly wrong :)
16:13:48AlexPIt is a little confusing to have what are I assume both hardware and software equalizers
16:14:04AlexPn1s: If I find out what they mean I'll just fix it :)
16:14:13n1sawesome :)
16:14:53AlexPEspecially as the hardware one defaults to "simple" mode (just change the gain), but software one to expert mode (change everything)
16:15:19AlexPI assume we have both as the software one is more configurable, or finer changes, but the hardware one is "free"
16:15:26n1sthe whole UI issue with 2 eq's and no bass/treb was discussed both when it was introduced for the ipod video (although the hw eq didn't actually work there) and when introduced for the beast but no good solution was suggested afaik
16:15:49n1sAlexP: yes, that's basically it
16:15:50AlexPWell yes, I'm struggling to think of one, but it is highly confusing
16:16:38soaprecap of the argument against simply having parallel UIs?
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16:45:07pixelmaAlexP: are there no seperate bass and treble in the sound settings (no equaliser?). Some targets that also do these in software still have them as they are "cheaper" to process than an eq band
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16:45:12pixelmae.g. the Iaudios
16:45:47AlexPno, the treble and bass are replaced with five gain bands (which are also in hardware, so equally cheap)
16:46:14AlexPSo there are two equalisers essentially, one hardware, one software, and no seperate treble/bass
16:46:42AlexPIIUC :)
16:46:51pixelmasounds weird (the fact I mean)
16:47:05AlexPThe reason the software eq is still there is that it is more fine grained than the hardware one
16:47:39AlexPwell it confused me at first :)
16:48:16AlexPIt is a good thing to be able to use all the capabilities of the hardware, but the UI question is an interesting one :)
16:48:55soapI don't fully grok what the UI question is.
16:49:31AlexPsoap: Just that it is confusing to have what seems to be two equalisers, with no indication of the difference
16:49:45AlexPAlso, why does one have a graphical way of setting it and the other not?
16:50:26AlexPAnd why does one default to letting you just change gain with an advanced menu to change width etc., while the other gives you all options off the bat with a simple menu option to just change gain
16:50:29n1sAlexP: isn't one called hardware EQ or something?
16:50:36soapAhh, the inconsistency of it. I didn't understand what the trouble was - now I do.
16:50:47n1salso because noone made a graphical interphase for it :)
16:51:04AlexPOne is called Tone Controls, the other is called Equalizer
16:51:07n1sanyway bass/treble is a very limited EQ
16:51:59AlexPIt jsut isn't clear that e.g. one is hardware the other software
16:52:27AlexPIt also doesn't help that the manual doesn't have the "tone controls" one, and instead claims that there are treble/bass settings
16:53:04AlexPn1s: If you have two menu items, one called "Tone Controls" and the other "Equalizer", which is hardware? :)
16:53:31n1sAlexP: :)
16:53:54AlexPEspecially as the tone controls one then has inside (I was expecting treble/base) "Band 1 Gain", "Band 2 Gain" etc.
16:54:00n1si never use either of these things so it doesn't really trouble me
16:54:54n1si don't think theres a way to have all these options and make it obvious what the differences are
16:55:10AlexPNo, it is tricky that's for sure
16:55:25AlexPThe manual being correct would be a start, I'll do that tonight
16:56:02n1si think i remember it actually being called hardware EQ at some point, i wonder why it was changede
16:57:43n1sah, that was the ipod video variant
16:58:40n1smaybe sound settings->EQ->hw and sound settings->EQ->sw
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17:15:22preglowi wish the eq screen contained a switch deciding if the sw or hw eq is to be used
17:15:31preglowi can't see a point in having a separate screen for each
17:15:48preglowor even letting both be active at the same time
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19:13:40AlexPTorne: Do I remember rightly that you implemented the beast tone controls?
19:16:28n1si think it was jhMikeS
19:16:36AlexPah right
19:17:03AlexPI'm just after a little explanation of what each item does :)
19:17:36AlexPI guess Band 1 and 5 frequencies are upper and lower bounds respectively
19:17:53AlexPbut are frequencies for bands 2-4 centre frequencies?
19:18:44AlexPAnd then width for bands 2-4 are narrow or wide, do we know/do we want to give an indication to what that means?
19:19:31n1si would assume the same, the datasheet for the dac should tell you the details :)
19:19:46AlexPdamn you! :)
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19:24:35AlexPyes, it is that - starts page 111 of the datasheet
19:24:55AlexPThere doesn't look to be a very much difference between wide and narrow if I'm reading it right
19:25:25AlexPI assume EQxBW = 1 or EQxBW = 0 is the width setting
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20:14:48notlisteninghey bluebrother, how is rbutil comming along these days...?
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20:43:04AlexPn1s: (or anyone else):
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20:46:36n1slooks good to me , maybe s/ potentially// in the introduction?
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20:49:10AlexPn1s: Yeah, I wasn't sure about that - I put potentially as the beast when running slow is still clocked so high I didn't know if the software EQ does actually make any difference :)
20:50:30pamauryfucking usb audio thing !! It doesn't report any underflow but the sound is obviously missing some parts
20:50:31n1sIt *does* use more cpu time although it might be relatively little of the total available cycles
20:50:37AlexPOK, cool
20:52:00n1salso even if the beast's cpu is fast it still sucks power and is one of those modern chips where cycles spent sleeping are cheap so saving cycles is important for battery time although i have no idea how much impact the EQ would have
20:52:18n1sa bench of that (on any target) would be very interesting imo
20:52:27AlexPyeah, makes sense
20:54:28CIA-81New commit by alex (r28095): Manual: The gigabeat S has hardware tone controls instead of bass/treble settings, so update the manual to reflect this. Also update the sound ...
20:54:57n1sawesome to see manual fixing :)
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20:56:26CIA-81r28095 build result: All green
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21:00:32pamauryhum, nice debug message:
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21:00:52pamauryusbaudio: set playback sampling frequency to %32000 Hz for a requested 44100 Hz
21:01:22n1sthat looks um wrong :)
21:01:45pamauryindeed, furthermore, both frequencies are supported by the hardware so my lookup routine must be wrong :)
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23:16:34NappyHead3128410I've just purchased a Sansa Clip+ I believe Rockbox is working with v1 clips and not v2. So how do I know which one do I have?
23:16:57 Nick NappyHead3128410 is now known as lordlucan (
23:17:38gevaertslordlucan: neither. You have a clip+
23:18:12lordlucanoh i see! oops
23:18:44gevaertsRockbox works on all of those though
23:19:18lordlucanthe site says its unstable thoug
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23:21:36gevaertsYes, but I think the clip+ isn't very far away from being declared stable. I don't have one though, so I might be wrong
23:21:57AlexPI get the impression it is mainly USB, but that might be erroneous
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23:23:34lordlucanthanks guys
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23:33:31froggymanis there suppose to be USB stack on the current SVN build for the sansa fuzev2
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23:34:59Jeromfroggyman: Yes but it isn't activated by default
23:35:19froggymanJerom, how does one activate it?
23:35:37JeromYou need to pull the sources and recompile it
23:36:22froggymanokay, what do I need to change in the source though? I already have a build environment setup, and have compiled plenty of times before :)
23:36:42JeromI did change some defines in firmware/export/config/sansafuzev2.h don't know if it's the best method but it works for me
23:37:03Jeromcomment out #define USB_HANDLED_BY_OF
23:37:15JeromAnd remove the comment from #define USE_ROCKBOX_USB
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23:38:49froggymandoes the bootloader need to be updated then so it won't turn on and boot into the OF if I plug in my USB cable right away?
23:39:12JeromYou don't need to update it
23:39:28JeromAnd I don't think it's wise to remove this behavior
23:39:36JeromYou know unstable and such ^^
23:40:44froggymanalright, I guess that would make sense then. Plus I wouldn't want to mess with the bootloader too much since I've heard plenty of horror stories about how easy it is to brick the fuze
23:42:12antIPDo people typically use a file browser to get music onto their rockbox device? Or is there any software that one could use to 'sync? From the FAQ I got the impression that most people would use a file browser.
23:42:20pamauryback to "normal" situation for usb audio: buffer underflow every 0.1 sec, now I just need to find why....
23:42:56froggymanantIP, quite a few people do use a file browser to do that, but there are plenty of programs to sync it for you
23:43:06froggymanantIP, what Operating system are you on?
23:43:48antIPfroggyman - Ubuntu 10.04
23:43:54Jerompamaury: May sound like a dumb question but what is usb audio ?
23:44:21pamauryusb audio is a spec to have a usb audio device act as a sound card
23:44:31froggymanantIP, rhythmbox should be able to sync your music for you then
23:45:27antIPfroggyman - Ok. Do people still dual boot with the linux os? (I'm not sure how up to date the FAQ is in this regard.)
23:45:43gevaertsantIP: dualboot what?
23:45:44pamauryso you plug your usb device and it is recognized as a sound card. I implemented this for rockbox (with a highly modified usb-arc driver and a modified usb stack and a new usb driver) and it worked. Two hours ago, I decided to resync with SVN head and it doesn't work reliably anymore :(
23:46:18froggymanantIP, there are people that dual boot between linux and windows (or possibly OS X), but thats not really on topic for here
23:46:30Jerombtw pamaury, nice work on the usb driver. It works well for me
23:46:33antIPgevaerts: According to the FAQ cLinux (or something like that) is used to dual/tripple boot. (iPhone OS, Rockbox, Linux, or even Doom)
23:46:56pamauryJerom: it fails randomly however...
23:47:18antIPfroggyman: I was referring to dual booting on on the iPod (rockbox/linux/iPodOS) ;)
23:48:41Jerompamaury: Can i notice it when I don't look a log files or such ?
23:49:52pamauryWell yes, randomly it will happen that you plug your device and the usb connection doesn't work. It must be related to the PHY setup because well you plug, it either works perfectly or not at all currently
23:50:18pamauryIf it didn't happen to you then you are lucky ;)
23:50:23Jeromok :)
23:51:03pamauryI have a potential hacky solution but the real problem is probably the PHY setup and I have no idea about how to solve it
23:51:22JeromWell when I did use the OF I only used the stock cable on the back from my pc or else it wouldn't
23:51:43JeromCould it be related ?
23:52:00pamauryI also only use the stock cable
23:53:21JeromWithout any extension cord ?
23:53:31JeromBecause it would also fail with an extension cord
23:54:08pamauryI tried with and without and it's the same as far as I can remember
23:54:31pamaurythe thing is that it's random and works most of the time
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23:58:52Jeromanyway, gn folks

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