#rockbox 2010-09-21

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#rockbox log for 2010-09-21

00:00:09		Join clone4crw [0] (~calvin@97-86-227-168.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com)
00:00:14	kugel	the load_code api is open for codecs&plugins, if you get the compilation right you can just load the library on runtime
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00:02:09		Join Rondom [0] (~quassel@dslb-084-057-156-130.pools.arcor-ip.net)
00:02:09	notlistening	will plugins be available on Android..?
00:02:28	Zagor	notlistening: not decided yet
00:02:38	notlistening	fair enough
00:02:56	amiconn	Most plugins don't really make sense in raaa. Some do though (e.g. PF)
00:03:17	notlistening	lol i want doom :D
00:03:25	kugel	which you can have without rockbox
00:03:31	amiconn	exactly
00:03:36	notlistening	really :P opps
00:03:42	kugel	many of our plugins are ported to android already
00:03:50	notlistening	I see
00:03:50	CIA-81	New commit by zagor (r28129): Added some missing build information.
00:04:09	kugel	there's no technical reason to exclude plugins. making them work for all the screen resolutions is just a lot of work
00:04:36	CIA-81	New commit by zagor (r28130): Stricter subst to avoid erroneous substitution.
00:04:47	notlistening	did you manage to make a dynamic resizing work..?
00:04:51		Quit Rondom (Disconnected by services)
00:04:59		Quit toffe82 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:05:08	amiconn	Actually a similar problem as optimisation for different arm versions
00:05:10		Join Rondom__ [0] (~quassel@dslb-084-057-163-207.pools.arcor-ip.net)
00:05:19	kugel	notlistening: no
00:05:28	kugel	I haven't even tried though
00:05:37	CIA-81	r28129 build result: All green
00:05:55	notlistening	kugel, oh not what the wiki said :P
00:06:04	amiconn	(doesn't just apply to libdemac)
00:06:30		Quit Rondom_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:07:22	CIA-81	r28130 build result: All green
00:09:00		Join Rondom [0] (~quassel@dslb-084-057-172-070.pools.arcor-ip.net)
00:09:15	notlistening	I just read take it back ;_
00:10:12		Part MxxCon ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
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00:15:32	*	kugel doesn't understand the logic to play the selected track in the playlist viewer
00:16:33	*	kugel doesn't understand the logic in the playlist viewer
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00:20:59	kugel	oh, enlightenment!
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00:24:43	kugel	our list code documentation is horrible
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01:10:24	CIA-81	New commit by kugel (r28131): Fix a bug in playlist viewer's list handling, causing superfluous redraws and ...
01:12:02	CIA-81	r28131 build result: All green
01:22:12		Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
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02:18:45	*	kugel has nice scrolling on touchscreen working
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02:20:48	kugel	if anyone wants to have a play: http://pastie.org/1171182
02:21:16	JdGordon\|	?
02:21:35	JdGordon\|	oh, proper touch scrolling?
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02:22:50	kugel	yea
02:23:01	kugel	no acceleration or kenitic'ism though (yet)
02:23:04	JdGordon\|	do a 480x800 apk please?
02:25:54	kugel	and still line based of course :P
02:27:16	kugel	JdGordon\|: up at the usual url
02:27:23	JdGordon\|	which is?
02:27:41	kugel	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AndroidPort
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03:01:05	JdGordon\|	which is?
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03:27:15	DemonX	I'm trying to install Rockbox on an iPod Nano 1g, and it is producing the error "Partition not found. Connect usb cable and fix it". I have looked over the site and have not been able to find an answer. Is there any way that I can get rockbox working on my iPod?
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03:43:47	JdGordon\|	DemonX: is it windows formatted?
03:43:52	DemonX	yes
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03:44:22	DemonX	I messed around, added partitions, restored in iTunes multiple times
03:44:56	DemonX	1.3.1 OF, using stable 3.6 for installing rockbox, using RockboxUtility
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04:22:22	alexbobP	is there a way to increase the maximum volume in rockbox?
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07:00
07:01:21		Join mundo [0] (~4c699f93@giant.haxx.se)
07:01:35	mundo	hi
07:02:26	mundo	ChanServ: hi
07:02:34	mundo	hi
07:03:22	mundo	hi
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07:06:21	mundo	hi
07:06:29	mundo	anyone here?
07:08:30	mundo	hello?
07:09:40	JdGordon\|	if you have a question just ask, if you dont then read the guidlines link in the topic
07:11:57	mundo	oh hi
07:12:08	mundo	ya, I can not download sansa clip
07:12:18	mundo	everything else work just fine, except sansa
07:12:23	mundo	http://www.rockbox.org/download/byhand.cgi
07:12:30	mundo	sansa clip I mean
07:13:05	mundo	if you have the file, can you host/up it somewhere?
07:13:19	JdGordon\|	http://build.rockbox.org/
07:13:59	mundo	>"< I prefer the stable version - first time I rock any box
07:15:36	JdGordon\|	well the clip doesnt have a stable version
07:15:47	JdGordon\|	if it did that link you posted would work
07:16:42	mundo	hmm, in the homepage it says Clip v1 does have stable
07:17:01	JdGordon\|	Zagor, hopefully you read the logs :) was the clipv1 stable in 3.6? it looks like byhand.cgi is generating bad links?
07:17:06		Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.182.72)
07:17:31	mundo	http://www.rockbox.org/
07:17:43	factor	cool getting my sansa fuze cabel to work with my mini projector. and found this firmware stuff
07:17:45	mundo	mine is clip v1
07:17:48	factor	cable. ^
07:18:14	JdGordon\|	mundo: yes, the clipv1 wasnt stable when 3.6 was released
07:18:29	factor	how can I check what version of fuze I have.
07:18:48	JdGordon\|	check the firmware version
07:19:10	factor	how do I check the firmware version?
07:19:26	mundo	which one? fuze v1 or v2?
07:19:34	factor	yes
07:19:38	factor	I dont know which
07:20:07	mundo	hmm
07:20:17	factor	how do I upload the firmware?
07:20:23	mundo	http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
07:20:41		Join esperegu [0] (~quassel@145.116.15.244)
07:20:46	mundo	go to the manual -> installation, there should be a way to say which is which
07:20:55	factor	k
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07:23:20	factor	Thanks version 2.03.31A
07:23:31	mc2739	mundo: there is no stable release for clip yet
07:23:45	mundo	Thanks
07:23:57	factor	mine is Fuze v2
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07:24:27	factor	has anyone gotten a usb keyboard / terminal connection
07:25:26	mundo	no idea what it is :(
07:25:33		Quit Gabe_G23 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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07:25:45	factor	to use the sansa fuze as a terminal
07:26:03	factor	check cpuinfo by typing cat /dev/cpuinfo etc.
07:26:21	factor	What is the chipset of the fuze?
07:27:09	mundo	wow, fuze runs GNU/Linux?
07:27:23	JdGordon\|	http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2008/11/28/rockbox-is-not-linux/
07:27:29	factor	can you flash the original fuze back on
07:27:35	factor	heh
07:29:34	factor	can you flash the original or get the original firmware?
07:29:59	factor	or save the original firmware?
07:30:10	JdGordon\|	yes
07:30:24	factor	how do I save the original fw
07:30:41	JdGordon\|	read the manual's installation section
07:30:59	factor	I see where rockbox let you bot between it and the original firmware.
07:32:02	JdGordon\|	bah, you dont need to do anything, the sansa firmware is never removed
07:32:31	factor	oh ok
07:33:03	mundo	Hey Gordon
07:33:14	mundo	is there anyway I can create playlist on my PC
07:33:28	mundo	and put it into my clip?
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07:33:39	scorche	rockbox will read standard m3u playlists
07:33:50	mundo	everywhere?
07:34:04	mundo	or only in some specific playlist folder?
07:34:25	scorche	well, the playlist has to be on the device and has to contain the correct paths according to how m3u works
07:34:32		Nick shuffle_2 is now known as shuffle2 (~shuffle2@cpe-74-74-168-216.rochester.res.rr.com)
07:34:49	mundo	that's all I need :) thank you good sir
07:35:37	factor	Does the audio / video pinouts work on rockbox?
07:35:50	scorche	that depends
07:35:51	JdGordon\|	audio should, video no
07:35:56	factor	dho
07:36:16	factor	I would love to make a presenter app for it.
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07:36:26	scorche	no one is stopping you ;)
07:37:10	factor	would be nice if the video pins where active. will be neat never the less
07:37:27	JdGordon\|	does it even have vieo out?
07:37:37	factor	mine does
07:38:10	factor	I just bought the video out cable for it. it said sansa fuze specifically
07:38:10	mundo	Good night ppl
07:38:14		Quit mundo (Quit: Page closed)
07:39:01	factor	will make some converter for power point to photo images per slide initially.
07:39:35	factor	but rockbox would let me change and add a presentation option.
07:40:02		Quit Judas_PhD (Client Quit)
07:40:26	factor	i.e add the conversion inside the fuze.
07:40:48	factor	having a built in converter for video would be nice as well.
07:41:03	factor	can rockbox run ffmpeg?
07:41:10	JdGordon\|	no
07:41:21	factor	any effort to do that?
07:41:26	JdGordon\|	no
07:41:31	scorche	there isnt really a good reason to...
07:41:39	factor	why is that?
07:42:11	factor	I would like to store the original video on the fuze and have a .fuze version as well for local viewing.
07:42:46	scorche	these do not have the most powerful processor...it would be far more time-efficient to get to a computer, convert, and copy back
07:43:18	factor	true but if you have no other option
07:44:19	scorche	then it still would probably save time to drive somewhere for 20 minutes, convert, transfer, and drive back for another 20 minutes
07:44:21	factor	I dont have a laptop but usually need the videos copied over on demand ,no real time to covert them.
07:45:18	factor	the other option is to add a auto conversion option to abby.
07:48:34	factor	ok will be back later , rockbox is neat will try it out.
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09:27:14	JdGordon\|	Zagor: hey, dunno if you saw above, there is either a problem with the byhand.cgi script, or with people saying ports are stable before a release has been built for them?
09:30:11	Zagor	hmm, yeah the script assumes stable builds have been released. I thought that was a principle we had?
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09:31:05	JdGordon\|	probably. It really doesnt make sense to put it in the stable area untill it has had a release, so maybe it just needs a reminder
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09:40:06	Zagor	kugel: is there a reason the (empty) gen/org/rockbox dir is version controlled?
09:40:22	kugel	JdGordon\|: have you tried the build?
09:40:48	JdGordon\|	yeah, scrolling is still a bit awkward, but better
09:41:26	JdGordon\|	the way its drawn makes it feel laggy, but meh
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09:42:33	*	JdGordon\| needs to get his keyboard navigation patch checked in
09:43:47	kugel	Zagor: I guess because git doesn't handle directories
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09:44:28	Zagor	kugel: huh? I mean it's only an output dir, isn't it? and you explicitly create it in android.make. so it's not really needed in svn?
09:44:48	kugel	yes it isn't
09:44:56	Zagor	ok, good
09:45:39	funman	FS #11621 - Website doesn't distinguish between "stable" and "released" targets
09:45:43	kugel	I added R.java accidentally, but deleting it yesterday didn't remove the dir (i thought it would)
09:46:03	Zagor	ok
09:46:27	Zagor	I'm just polishing the makefile a bit
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09:49:04	kugel	JdGordon\| yea, because everything is still line based
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09:50:28	pixelma	JdGordon\|, Zagor: I believe there even is a bug reoport for the stable ports and the release script thing. IIRC opened by gevaerts not too long ago
09:50:47	JdGordon\|	I tihnk funman just linked to it :)
09:51:14	JdGordon\|	but I tinhk the problem is more than we shouldnt be calling ports stable untill a release has been done for it anyway
09:51:17	pixelma	ah, should have read all the way to the end... :\|
09:51:27	gevaerts	Yes. Formalising "no stable promotions outside release time' would be a fix though
09:55:26	JdGordon\|	would this Codec2 thing be useful for our voicefiles?
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09:56:05	Zagor	kugel: what's the story with renaming rockbox.zip to libmisc.so in the apk?
09:57:17	Zagor	some sort of workaround for apkbuilder limitations?
09:57:33	kugel	.so files are the only extra files in an apk
09:57:46	b0hoon	pixelma: translation committed in r28105 looks ok to me.
09:57:47	kugel	+allowed
09:58:13	Zagor	kugel: ok
09:58:25	pixelma	b0hoon: thanks for checking :)
09:58:31	kugel	(which you can access with file i/o spo)
09:58:49	kugel	a/spo/api/
10:00
10:00:07	pixelma	kugel: what was the story about the list you posted yesterday (pastie link) about some SVN ignore or somesuch, what should be done with it?
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10:01:46	kugel	adding them to svn ignore would be nice
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10:02:39	pixelma	is this a file somewhere?
10:02:55	pixelma	probably not
10:03:09	funman	svn pe svn:ignore
10:03:25	kugel	I don't know actually
10:03:30	funman	in git it's a file, definitely simpler ;)
10:03:48	pixelma	ah, so it's an SVN property
10:03:53	funman	pixelma: svn pe svn:ignore folder/
10:06:58	pixelma	ok, I'll look into it later today
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10:19:21	funman	JdGordon\|: ping
10:19:31	JdGordon\|	hey
10:19:44	funman	can you look at do_setting_from_menu() : oldval is unused
10:20:33	JdGordon\|	oh right! I had an obvjection with your email
10:20:44	JdGordon\|	specifically that unused vars are a sure sign of a bug...
10:21:07	JdGordon\|	they are probably bugs, but just as likely missing or not fully implemented features :)
10:21:08	funman	they are sure a worth warning at least, i fixed an android bug thanks to them
10:21:30	funman	if this missing or incomplete feature is not documented it's a bug in itself
10:22:02	JdGordon\|	fair enough :) yeah that one can just be removed
10:22:14	kugel	funman: what Android bug?
10:22:44		Quit t3mpp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:23:02	funman	database
10:23:14	kugel	oh right
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10:25:50	CIA-81	New commit by funman (r28132): parse_sap_header(): remove write-only variable
10:25:54	CIA-81	New commit by funman (r28133): lang_load(): ignore unused field from the lang file
10:26:20	JdGordon\|	does that break lang compatability?
10:27:44	CIA-81	r28132 build result: All green
10:27:52	funman	no but we could remove that from the format if breaking compatibility is ok
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10:29:19	CIA-81	r28133 build result: All green
10:29:50	funman	the warning in selection_to_val() is ony because of ASCENDING_INT_SETTING #ifdef
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10:32:51	CIA-81	New commit by funman (r28134): eq menu: remove write-only variable present since r8606
10:34:30	CIA-81	r28134 build result: All green
10:34:55	funman	JdGordon: did you try this Codec2 ?
10:35:35	JdGord	No. Just read the /. Articfle and its site
10:36:01	JdGord	Seems like rockbox would be an ideal testbed for it
10:36:10	funman	the bitrate is very low, it makes me doubt it would be suitable
10:36:33	JdGord	Well half oglf it anyway
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10:54:11	funman	another bug: graphical eq doesn't speak changes
10:59:29	CIA-81	New commit by funman (r28135): playback_callback(): remove write-only old_repeat_mode ...
11:00
11:00:52		Quit francesco_ (Remote host closed the connection)
11:01:13	CIA-81	r28135 build result: All green
11:02:15	funman	JdGordon: so what about do_setting_from_menu() ?
11:02:32	JdGord	Remove it
11:03:35	pixelma	funman: I believe sound settings don't speak changes on purpose so that you can hear the effect. Or do you mean only when leaving the screen?
11:04:02	funman	pixelma: i'm not sure but i see the unit being changed is tracked in "voice_unit", presumably to be spoken
11:04:24	CIA-81	New commit by funman (r28136): do_setting_from_menu(): remove write-only variables
11:04:37	JdGord	Iirc voice doesn't work in low latency mode? Or something like that which is needed for those settings?
11:04:52	funman	low latency?
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11:06:05	CIA-81	r28136 build result: All green
11:06:08	JdGord	Pcmbuf or something. On phone so can't get the actual name :)
11:06:30	pixelma	so that you can hear the sound changes immediately
11:06:55	pixelma	I'd be actually annoyed when voice would always tell me -40dB, -41dB etc. when changing sound settings, it would be destracting
11:07:31	pixelma	s/when/while
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11:08:53	pixelma	and distracting
11:10:04	CIA-81	New commit by funman (r28137): eq menu: remove write-only variable
11:11:30	funman	http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/bloat/
11:12:38	Zagor	funman: nice widget
11:12:41	CIA-81	r28137 build result: All green
11:12:57	funman	it's on http://github.com/martine/webtreemap
11:15:27	LinusN	funman: cool!!!
11:15:48	wodz	ehh - today is a black day - my HD200 stopped connecting with USB, HD300 has broken CF core power supply step-down converter
11:16:06	LinusN	wodz: ouch!
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11:22:54	CIA-81	New commit by zagor (r28138): Polished the makefile a bit.
11:24:29	CIA-81	r28138 build result: All green
11:24:34	funman	funman/clipv1-bloat/demo/demo.html">http://altair.videolan.org/~videolan/funman/clipv1-bloat/demo/demo.html
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11:25:13	kugel	Zagor: I explicitly removed the zip dependency a while ago
11:25:22	gevaerts	funman: that does look useful...
11:25:26	Zagor	kugel: oh, why?
11:25:26	funman	not sure if BSS is here
11:26:01	AlexP	That's cool
11:26:46	gevaerts	funman: it doesn't look as if BSS is there I'd say
11:27:58	JdGordon	see now that is almost useful!
11:28:03	gevaerts	The total is close to our binsize numbers
11:28:19	funman	binsize is 380644 bytes
11:29:07	kugel	Zagor: because it's always made ( see also r28068)
11:29:08	JdGordon	anyone want to completly redo the GUI? that ends up being maybe 65% of the apps binsize
11:29:25	funman	let's throw that and use only voice based interface
11:30:00	AlexP	"ipod shuffle" mode? :P
11:31:37	kugel	Zagor: it essentially means libmisc is always extracted, which is annoying
11:31:42	rasher	funman: great, now add a slider for time!
11:32:02	Zagor	kugel: extracted? you mean copied?
11:32:36	funman	rasher: i know nothing to html & al
11:32:50	Zagor	it is a fabulous map just for finding your way around the code
11:32:50	funman	funman/clipv1-bloat/demo/demo.html">http://altair.videolan.org/~videolan/funman/clipv1-bloat/demo/demo.html < shows BSS (i think)
11:33:34	kugel	Zagor: It's extracted at stsrtup, but only if it is newer
11:33:43	funman	ram usage is 617696 = 603.2kB, not 612.2kB like the thing says (rounding error?)
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11:33:47	kugel	startup*
11:34:00	Zagor	kugel: right. but I think we can assume updated android builds will have updated rockbox code 99% of the time
11:35:37	kugel	in fact, most of the time is only the binary changed
11:35:57	Zagor	"the binary"?
11:36:09	Zagor	ohh, I'm silly
11:36:20	Zagor	I'm confusing the libs/zips
11:36:25	Zagor	you're right
11:36:35	kugel	libmisc has themes&codecs
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11:37:23	funman	having symbol names inside files would be nice too
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11:42:04	funman	kugel: why INT_GPIOA() doesn't have interrupt("IRQ") attribute?
11:42:19	kugel	dunno
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11:44:54	kugel	Zagor: make apk will have the latest binary, making a new zip for make apk means that libmisc.so always has a new file stamp, and that it's always extracted. that's very annoying when during development
11:45:15	Zagor	kugel: I agree. I'll revert it.
11:45:49	Zagor	however we need to think if some way around this for the regular builds
11:46:07	kugel	can't the build system do make zip && make apk?
11:47:40	Zagor	yeah I guess we do want a new zip in every build then
11:49:26	kugel	alternatively we could add a intelligent prerequisite for zip, but I'm not sure if it's worth it
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11:52:22	giovanni_	I would like to promote the ondas builds to unstable
11:53:05	Zagor	giovanni_: is the TargetStatus table accurate?
11:53:49	Zagor	it lists many things as untested for vx767
11:54:05	giovanni_	Zagor: for the vx747/vx777 yes it is
11:54:24	giovanni_	don't know about vx767
11:55:13	Zagor	so we still don't have access to the internal storage?
11:55:23	giovanni_	no
11:55:34	giovanni_	only SD
11:56:43	wodz	as far as I remember there is problem that we don't know FTL OF uses
11:57:15	giovanni_	yes, mcuelenaere knows about this kind of things
11:57:26	funman	kugel: ah only irq_handler() needs this
11:58:13	Zagor	giovanni_: but the vx747/777 boots to the sdcard and works as normal against it?
11:59:43	kugel	funman: I guess I just forgot about adding it when I moved the function
11:59:45	giovanni_	can't understand what you mean... rockbox boots from the sd card
12:00
12:00:13	Zagor	giovanni_: I'm just asking if it is generally usable for non-devs
12:00:34	giovanni_	oh yes, I'm not a dev
12:00:50	Zagor	then I guess I agree with you
12:00:54	giovanni_	users just needed an sd card
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12:02:21	funman	kugel: nope none of the others functions need it
12:02:30	funman	they are normal functions called from irq_handler()
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14:08:37		Join ClashTheBunny [0] (c72ec6e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.46.198.232)
14:08:42	ClashTheBunny	Hi
14:13:39	ClashTheBunny	I was just stopping by to see if I could get my Wiki account approved
14:14:24	ClashTheBunny	Well, added to the WikiUsersGroup. I am RandallMason on the wiki.
14:14:52	ClashTheBunny	I would like to edit the MPEGPlayer page to include the latest version of VLC's transcode options.
14:15:11	GodEater	ClashTheBunny: one second
14:15:14	ClashTheBunny	url has changed to dst for the destination file and −−sout is now :sout.
14:15:20	ClashTheBunny	Oh, thanks.
14:17:15	GodEater	done
14:17:30	GodEater	hmm
14:17:45	GodEater	does Randal really have two 'l' in it?
14:17:59	GodEater	because the wiki doesn't think you exist
14:18:40		Quit xavieran (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
14:18:51	ClashTheBunny	My Randall does :-)
14:19:04	GodEater	can you give me the url to your wiki page then ?
14:21:19	ClashTheBunny	I'm really sorry, NoScript was messing with the reg page.
14:21:36	ClashTheBunny	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/RandallMason
14:22:23	GodEater	ok - you're golden now :D
14:23:59	ClashTheBunny	Thanks so much.
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14:33:00	JdGordon	I have a patch which adds (real) keyboard support to the lists in the sdl app... I'm using ACTION_RAWKEYBOARD and HAVE_RAWKEYBOARD as the defines.. any ideas for better names? this would really only give us ASCII (obviously)
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15:09:44	ClashTheBunny	I'm heading out also, thanks so much GodEater
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15:36:25	wodz	What is our policy about typedef? Do we remove typedefs from imported code?
15:37:09	gevaerts	We tend not to touch imported code too much
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15:39:14	wodz	I was thinking about adding support for png in core (to solve problem of gigant theme files for Raaa) and code from apps/plugings/imageviewer/png is heavly typedefed
15:43:16	*	AlexP asks wodz the question he is sure to get before very long
15:43:20	AlexP	How big is it?
15:43:30	wodz	big what?
15:43:54	AlexP	binsize increase of png in core
15:44:12	wodz	dunno - it just an idea currently :-)
15:44:18	AlexP	:)
15:44:22	wodz	s/it/it is/
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15:55:19	pixelma	it's unpredictable how much themes as png save, depending how the image is made and what it shows. It also only saves storage wise as far as I understand, not when loaded
15:55:35		Quit b0hoon (Remote host closed the connection)
15:57:01	pixelma	or better: "the images are" and "what they show"
15:59:37	pixelma	I doubt you gain much, someone could try though
15:59:56	wodz	sum of object sizes compiled for ipod video is 56kB, there is some plugin specific stuff in this so I estimate ~50kB binsize delta
16:00
16:00:22	wodz	having patch to try doesn't harm I would say
16:01:03	pixelma	I don't mean a patch at the moment. Just saving the BMPs of some themes as PNGs
16:01:20	wodz	the easiest test is to take cabbiev2 for big sizes and compress it
16:01:24	wodz	hehe
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16:04:54	pixelma	another downside I guess is that PNGs would need to be uncompressed when the theme loads and even if it doesn't take too long it can add a noticeable delay to boot time
16:07:17	wodz	on 1GHz smartphone I think this is not the problem
16:08:46	gevaerts	Not all smartphones are 1GHz :)
16:09:43	wodz	for cabbiev2 320x480x16 compressing graphics to png reduce size from 937326 bytes to 158085 (almost 6 times smaller)
16:10:31	gevaerts	That's still storage space. Is 700K storage space woth 60K RAM?
16:11:16	wodz	If we choose to support multiple resolutions I think its worth
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16:12:14	wodz	for regular DAPs I don't see any benefit
16:13:03	MatthewWilkes	Hy guys, I'm considering buying a new iPod/music player and I'd be interested in putting RockBox on it, are http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=ipodvideo all of the themes, or are there others lurking around the internet?
16:13:23	pixelma	I guess storage is not that important here, more bandwidth when downloading the app
16:13:55	Zagor	crazy idea: how about adding an online theme browser/downloader to the android port
16:14:05	wodz	kugel mentioned once that some android devices are quite tight in storage space
16:14:12	AlexP	MatthewWilkes: They are the ones we know about, no idea if others have some somewhere
16:14:36	pixelma	MatthewWilkes: I don't know. But it's relatively easy to make your own
16:15:49	MatthewWilkes	AlexP: Ok, I only ask because from what I've seen of the latest iPods they have a pretty damn sexy UI, and that page looked a little disappointing tbh
16:16:02	AlexP	You can always make your own
16:16:08	AlexP	These are all user contributed
16:16:31	gevaerts	MatthewWilkes: we don't run on the latest ipods anyway, so that's a false comparison :)
16:16:50	Zagor	we're programmers, not turtleneck designers ;)
16:17:16	MatthewWilkes	Zagor: hehe :)
16:17:22	MatthewWilkes	gevaerts: Oh, don't you?
16:17:39	MatthewWilkes	I haven't used an iPod in quite a few generations, is 5G not the current?
16:17:43	AlexP	MatthewWilkes: See www.rockbox.org
16:18:09	AlexP	MatthewWilkes: Er, no - Nano is on the 5th gen by now, the big one has 3 gens of classic I think
16:18:15	AlexP	We are a few generations behind
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16:18:59	MatthewWilkes	Sorry, I don't know what you mean by classic - hmm - this makes the choice harder then
16:19:36	AlexP	it is the model name of newer big ipods
16:19:58	MatthewWilkes	ok
16:20:20	Zagor	MatthewWilkes: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1353
16:20:37	Zagor	it's a jungle. and that page doesn't even include their latest models.
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16:25:16	MatthewWilkes	riight, ok
16:25:54	MatthewWilkes	So, no full size iPods within the last 4 years, basically?
16:26:30		Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16:27:21	Zagor	well, 3 years
16:27:25	Zagor	but yeah
16:28:27	MatthewWilkes	sure, ok, in that case, is there any supported player that's particularly popular?
16:28:42	MatthewWilkes	I was only thinking iPod for the pretty, I'd rather have FLAC playback than pretty
16:29:45	gevaerts	I'd say the most popular recent target is probably the Sansa Fuze
16:30:06	AlexP	The current ones are really just the fuze and clip+ I think (?)
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16:34:04	MatthewWilkes	hmm, ok, thanks, seems to be reasonably priced
16:34:13	MatthewWilkes	Something to think about, anyway :)
16:35:06	gevaerts	There were some on woot yesterday :)
16:36:10		Quit AlexP (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
16:36:14	MatthewWilkes	gevaerts: I live in Germany, I'd guess it would be cheaper/easier to buy here than deal with customs
16:36:19	MatthewWilkes	That, or wait for the SoC mentor summit ;)
16:37:21	pixelma	you're going to the summit?
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16:38:16	MatthewWilkes	Yeah, I'm org admin for Plone, you rockbox lot are quite visible in #gsoc so it has been in the back of my mind to try it out for a while
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16:49:29	Bagder	MatthewWilkes: gevaerts and scorche are going there from our camp methinks
16:49:55	MatthewWilkes	Bagder: Ah, cool, I assumed scorche would be
16:50:05	MatthewWilkes	Don't think I've met gevaerts
16:50:25	gevaerts	I haven't been there before
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17:28:43	engwan	Hi, how can i flash rockbox into a iRiver h120 with a broken hdd?
17:29:34	engwan	do i need to buy another hdd? or can i just buy the ide to cf adapter and use a cf card? Does the CF adapter work even with stock firmware?
17:29:54	AlexP	engwan: I don't think you can, you need to get into Rockbox (from disk) in order to use Rockbox to flash Rockbox to flash
17:30:02	AlexP	But without a disk, what is the point?
17:30:05	AlexP	Oh, CF
17:30:27		Quit dfkt_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
17:30:33	AlexP	Does either Rockbox or the OF not immediately work with CF?
17:31:00	engwan	i read that the CF works with rockbox, not sure with the OF
17:31:15	AlexP	CF with Rockbox in general is fine
17:31:30	engwan	thats why i asked.. coz if OF doesnt work then i have to buy an HDD just to flash to rockbox
17:31:32	engwan	then use CF
17:31:40	engwan	waste of money for HDD just to flash
17:31:47	AlexP	But to install Rockbox, the OF needs to read the patched OF from disk
17:31:55	AlexP	If it can use CF, then OK
17:31:58	engwan	yeah, thats my problem
17:32:02	AlexP	But I haven't tried this myself
17:32:08	engwan	has anyone tried using CF with OF?
17:32:32	engwan	so i can read the patched firmware from the cf card, and install rockbox
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17:37:52	evilnick_B	engwan: Check the forums
17:39:20	engwan	i did.. most of the mods there were done with players which already have rockbox on them, so detecting the CF wasnt much of a problem
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17:54:08	HaimN	How long sansa fuze v2 will be stable?
17:54:40	HaimN	it's safe to install it now?
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18:00
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18:08:45	Gottwik	Anybody who can modify rockbox?
18:11:51	Llorean	Depending on what you're looking for someone to do, that could both be a ridiculously low amount or a ridiculously high amount or anywhere in between. Just saying "I have money, anybody here program" isn't likely to get you a lot of good responses though.
18:12:12	Gottwik	Hello Llorean
18:12:31	Gottwik	w
18:12:47	Gottwik	We would like rockbox to make a sansa clip work as audio tour device
18:13:04	Gottwik	basically remove 90% of features like settings or browsing songs
18:14:06	Gottwik	device would turn on, select language, select sight and listen. this plus volume control
18:15:20	Gottwik	my guess would be that modifying menu structure would be most of the work
18:15:21	Llorean	That's something well within the possibility of doing. Sometimes people show up with offers of cash and crazy requests. I'd honestly suggest sending the idea to the rockbox development mailing list though
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18:15:41	Llorean	It will be much more likely more people will see your request.
18:16:16	Gottwik	I've sent an email to the developer mailing list over a week ago with no response
18:16:31	Torne	you have? i didn't see one.
18:16:35	Llorean	Nor I.
18:16:46	Torne	what was the subject/sender?
18:16:47	Gottwik	wrong address maybe?
18:17:11	Gottwik	subject is Business offer for a rockbox developer
18:17:18	Llorean	Did you sign up for the list first?
18:17:21	Torne	are you subscribed to the list?
18:17:22	rasher	Gottwik: You need to be subscribed or the mailing list software won't let it through
18:17:32	Torne	rasher: it should send a bounce, though, no?
18:17:42	Gottwik	oh, that would explain things
18:17:48	rasher	Torne: those are easily overlooked these days
18:17:58	Gottwik	probably spam filter got the bounce
18:18:39	Gottwik	would anybody be interested or should i subscribe and send the email one more time?
18:19:10	Torne	if it's just a one time thing, that you basically want a single custom build with almost all features removed
18:19:15	Torne	then that's pretty easy, yes
18:19:25	Torne	and someone would just ahve to take the time to do it
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18:19:43	Gottwik	that is correct
18:19:56	Gottwik	the device would be sansa clip v2
18:20:24	Torne	subscribe to the list and send it
18:20:43	Llorean	I'd definitely recommend sending it to the mailing list.
18:20:51	Gottwik	ok, thank you very much
18:21:22	HaimN	whem sansa fuze will be stable?
18:21:27	Gottwik	glad I tried the irc before opting for other solutions
18:21:38	HaimN	hwo long?
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18:21:49	Llorean	HaimN: When it happens. There is no timeline.
18:22:27	HaimN	Llorean: Have suggested?
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18:23:11	HaimN	how stable is fuze v2 now
18:23:13	HaimN	?
18:23:55	Llorean	I don't know how stable it is now. I don't have one.
18:24:28	HaimN	ok, thanks!
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18:54:29	kugel	Torne: I think it could even be a plugin started via autorock
18:55:22	kugel	removing most of the features doesn't necessarily help, it could make it worse because builds with features removed are completely untested
18:57:18	Llorean	kugel: You could just default it to starting in the file browser, and remove the keymaps for any buttons that take you to menus.
18:57:31	Llorean	Then have the only thing in the root of the player be files for each of the "locations" or whatever
18:58:53	kugel	I assume these "locations" should be translated, so the file browser wouldn't help then
19:00
19:00:05	Llorean	That's probably not the best assumption to make
19:00:07	kugel	I've never used an audio guide in a museum (that's goal IIUC) so I don't kow how this works
19:00:14	Llorean	If it's an audio tour, the audio will need to be in the new "translated" language anyway
19:00:19	Llorean	So you'd just have a folder for each language.
19:00:51	Llorean	But I admit, I'm just thinking bare bones here.
19:01:01		Quit giovanni_ (Quit: Sto andando via)
19:01:08	Llorean	They may want some advanced things, such as set tour playlists for different regions of the museum or whatever.
19:01:25	Llorean	Either way though, it's surely well within the capabilities of most contributors.
19:01:42	kugel	I think so too
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19:17:54	wodz	kugel: are theme graphics loaded from sd or are installed into internal memory on android?
19:18:13	kugel	internal
19:18:29	kugel	well, the shipped themes. other themes would be installed on the sd card
19:18:58	wodz	so if we support multiple resolutions build all this will be in internal storage right?
19:19:19	wodz	if so I think png support in core will be very interesting
19:20:16	n1s	wodz: wouldn't something simpler like storing the themes compressed (zip) and unpacking only the one in use be as good?
19:22:51	kugel	wodz: it would certainly be nice
19:23:33	kugel	the png plugin doesn't do greyscale yet, I think that's a problem
19:23:42	wodz	png is already in rb (as part of imageviewer)
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19:24:05	wodz	png doesn't make much sense for low res greyscale
19:24:58	kugel	but there's jpeg for greyscale, and I guess that if we have png in core we also would like to support .png albumart
19:25:51	kugel	(which implies resizing on load)
19:26:13	n1s	is png aa used anywhere?
19:26:23	kugel	I've seen it
19:26:28	Llorean	Why would we want .png in core when we've already got .jpg?
19:26:44	Llorean	Is theme size a problem on android?
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19:28:02	kugel	with a single theme no, but IIUC wodz wants a resolution independant build and then a theme for each resolution
19:28:45	kugel	does anyone know if there's a technical reason we don't support jpeg for the theme images?
19:28:49	AlexP	Would this be disableable? The estimate of 60k in core seems quite high vs. disk space
19:29:08	Llorean	How many common android resolutions are there? Would other technical measures be an alternative?
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19:30:14	Llorean	For example, the backdrop is just a gradient plus a small "Rockbox" logo right? Could we add "gradient backrdops" that don't use an image (which can slim down some existing themes) and the ability to combine smaller images into backdrops via a backdrop .wps-type file that just positions them? Since most of the devices are probably decently high rez, you can reuse a lot of images for the .wps too, right, just repositioned to changed aspect ratios?
19:30:22	kugel	if we only use it on android we don't need it in the core, we can just use the (upstream) shared library libpng
19:30:35	AlexP	ah, that sounds interesting
19:30:40	Llorean	I mean the main problem is the backdrop right now, and we're pretty limited on that anyway and could use improving (must match screen size, can't use a smaller centered image, or anything like that)
19:31:06	Llorean	Then again, if it's an android-only solution, it's not too big a deal I guess.
19:31:15	Llorean	But I expect people will ask "why can only android use .png in themes?" pretty quickly
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19:35:23	kugel	it looks like all androids have a libpng already on the device but it's not available for apps
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19:54:03	factor	How stable is the fuze version 2 stuff?
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19:55:12	Strife89DS	State the details again, please?
19:56:04	Strife89DS	I have an ssh client here that I can try something with.
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20:29:53	wodz	current png code compiled with -Os instead of -O3 gives 47kB vs 56kB
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20:43:02	alexandros	hi hi people
20:43:17	gevaerts	wodz: for comparison, jpeg in core added 15KB on arm :)
20:43:17	alexandros	i have a question
20:44:27	alexandros	is it possible to install RB in fuze with 02.03.33 FW?
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20:44:59	factor	<alexandros> That is what I have, I see a unstable port for fuze v2
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20:45:09	wodz	gevaerts: I am inspecting the possibilities.
20:45:11	gevaerts	alexandros: as far as I can see, yes
20:45:28	gevaerts	wodz: IIRC Unhelpful worked on that a lot before committing
20:45:50	factor	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaFuze <−−- fuze v2
20:46:15	gevaerts	alexandros: you might have to use the manual install method though. Rockbox Utility may not handle the newer firmware versions yet
20:50:00	alexandros	link?
20:50:25	gevaerts	That should be described in the manual
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20:57:52	Unhelpful	gevaerts: mostly to shoehorn it into the callback API used by the scaler.
20:59:53	alexandros	i need help with 2.2.3 step
21:00
21:00:19	alexandros	btw i dont have any patched.bin file
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21:00:47	kugel	Unhelpful: why do we still have a separate jpeg plugin and don't use the core decoder?
21:01:23	Unhelpful	kugel: somebody needs to do the work, and the jpeg plugin caches files in memory, but the core decoder can only decode direct from disk.
21:02:27	kugel	that's all?
21:02:45	Unhelpful	pluginlib contains a decoder built from the same source that can decode from memory already, so that gets you the source consolidation. :)
21:02:53	kugel	part of the embedded albumart patch is to load jpeg from ram
21:03:10	amiconn	wodz: Object file size doesn't tell much because of symbols etc
21:03:31	Unhelpful	kugel: ...why? :P
21:03:56	kugel	because "core decoder can only decode direct from disk"
21:04:02	amiconn	In order to see what it actually adds, you need to integrate it (in a preliminary way) and check the size difference after linking
21:05:01	amiconn	kugel: Not all builds have jpeg in core, but still have the jpeg viewer
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21:05:37	kugel	ah yes, right
21:07:04	kugel	I think we should add all decoders to the core in a codec like fashion (i.e. the actual decoders are loaded at runtime)
21:08:36	amiconn	Do you think that's a good idea?
21:09:02	amiconn	You still need to set aside a fixed buffer to load them, large enough to accomodate the biggest one
21:09:17	Unhelpful	kugel: there is no good reason for embedded AA to require decode from memory. none.
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21:09:33	gevaerts	Unhelpful: latency!
21:09:48	Unhelpful	gevaerts: it's still reading from disk first! :P
21:10:17	gevaerts	Yes, but that's asynchronously. You don't have to wait for that when the track switches :)
21:10:22	kugel	Unhelpful: except the buffering code already has audio file in memory
21:10:54	gevaerts	kugel: if the tag is at the beginning anyway
21:10:58	amiconn	Buffering doesn't buffer tags
21:11:01	Unhelpful	kugel: is it guaranteed to have all of the needed portion in memory already? :P
21:11:28	gevaerts	What if the buffer space is smaller than the jpeg data?
21:11:34		Quit s1gma_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
21:11:34	amiconn	It reads and decodes the tags when starting to buffer the file (or even before, on swcodec)
21:12:07	kugel	buffer reads the whole audio file, I don't think it strips the tags
21:12:16	amiconn	It certainly does
21:12:42	amiconn	Otherwise one mp3 I once received would have caused a huge gap during playback on my Recorder
21:12:46	Unhelpful	and it doesn't read the whole file if it's larger than the buffer. the AA reader needs to do its own reading IMO.
21:13:05	amiconn	This file was 7MB in total, 4MB of that being tags including embedded aa
21:13:11	Unhelpful	amiconn: what, id3v2 tag size of the buffer? ;)
21:13:20	kugel	not stripping the tags doesn't mean playing them back
21:13:27	amiconn	Unhelpful: id3v2 several times the buffer size
21:13:53	kugel	but I'm not too sure, I might be wrong
21:13:56	amiconn	(the very same, actually quite small, jpeg - added 100 (!) times)
21:14:02	Unhelpful	don't we also have disk-block cache? if we "just read" the tag data won't read be very very fast?
21:14:26	amiconn	nope
21:14:39	Unhelpful	ew. :/
21:14:45	kugel	Unhelpful: so why don't we support embedded aa it right now already?
21:15:02	amiconn	We have a fat cache, and dir handles buffer a few sectors of the opened dir
21:15:02	Unhelpful	kugel: somebody needs to do the work! ;)
21:15:16	kugel	I thought there was a larger issue?
21:15:20	gevaerts	Unhelpful: so all we need is basically the metadata reader telling the AA system a filename and offset?
21:15:21	amiconn	File access only buffers the current sector
21:15:22	Unhelpful	ah, so we only cache metadata, and only a little.
21:15:49	Unhelpful	gevaerts: and providing a pointer to a filter function that looks like read() but preprocesses data in a manner appropriate to the tag.
21:16:10	alexandros	i double clicked mbamsboot.exe and nothing happend
21:16:40	gevaerts	Unhelpful: this is in case data might be escaped?
21:16:44		Quit panni_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
21:16:49	amiconn	gevaerts: yes
21:17:10	Unhelpful	gevaerts: more like because data will be escaped. id3v2 is the only format afaik where we can know it might not be.
21:17:25	amiconn	Afaik id3v2 needs to "unsync" data (so that there is no ssequence in it that looks like an mpeg frame sync)
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21:17:35	Unhelpful	for vorbis you're supposed to base64 binary data for tags
21:17:43	Unhelpful	because tags are required to be utf8
21:17:43	kugel	what does "escaped" mean in this context?
21:18:40	gevaerts	alexandros: have you tried just following the installation instructions in the manual?
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21:23:30	alexandros	now i have error from mbamsboot and it says could not open bootloader-fuze.sansa
21:23:54	saratoga	alexandros: post the command log
21:24:03	saratoga	into pastebin.ca or pastebin.com
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21:26:15	alexandros	i did
21:26:27	alexandros	btw im running w7
21:26:41	alexandros	does it matters
21:27:13		Quit Jerom1 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
21:27:16	AlexP	he means show us exactly what you type and what the result was by pasting the output from your command prompt into www.pastebin.ca then giving us the link
21:27:45	saratoga	alexandros: copy and paste the complete result of what you ran into pastebin, i'll look at it, and then tell you whats wrong
21:27:46	alexandros	http://pastebin.ca/1946056
21:28:23	saratoga	can you also do a "dir" so i can see your files?
21:28:56	alexandros	u mean a screenshot?
21:29:02	saratoga	no, "dir"
21:29:08	saratoga	run that command and paste the output
21:29:45	saratoga	by the way, did anyone get their GSOC shirts yet?
21:34:39	AlexP	saratoga: nope
21:34:50	saratoga	ok cool
21:34:55	saratoga	i'm still bitter about not getting one in 2008
21:38:21		Quit Rondom (Disconnected by services)
21:38:23	alexandros	ok i made a pached.bin file
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21:41:59		Part toffe82
21:42:13	alexandros	yay i installed it
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21:44:14	GuyllFyre	Not sure if any admins are here who maintain the firmware downloads but there's a problem.
21:44:24	GuyllFyre	http://download.rockbox.org/release/3.6/rockbox-sansaclip-3.6.zip is not found on the server in this location.
21:44:31	GuyllFyre	404
21:44:53	gevaerts	Yes, we know. There is no 3.6 for the sansa clip, because it wasn't stable yet when 3.6 was released
21:45:10	GuyllFyre	Then there should be a note of some sort for those of us attempting to install it.
21:45:14	gevaerts	Only the script that builds the index page doesn't handle that case well
21:47:15	GuyllFyre	Well, hopefully it'll go back to original firmware without issue. Any ideas when RockBox WILL be ready for the Clip?
21:47:32	AlexP	It is ready
21:47:36	AlexP	Use a current build
21:47:49	GuyllFyre	Isn't 3.6 the current build?
21:48:01	AlexP	no, that's the latest release
21:48:08	*	GuyllFyre rolls his eyes.
21:48:13	AlexP	There is a new current build everytime the source is chabged
21:48:15	GuyllFyre	Maybe someone should jsut fix the installer.
21:48:15	AlexP	*changed
21:48:44		Quit GuyllFyre (Quit: CGI:IRC)
22:00
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22:09:22	bluebroth3r	domonoky: ping
22:12:06	alexandros	lolz when i turn off it switched back to normal menu
22:12:16	saratoga	does rbutil actually try to install rockbox 3.6 to the clip, or was that guy just confused
22:13:28	bluebroth3r	if we have a Rockbox 3.6 release then Rockbox Utility will try to install it
22:13:43	bluebroth3r	If you select to install the release of course
22:14:19	saratoga	so basically we need a separate list of release and stable targets?
22:14:34	saratoga	or i guess just not make targets stable until they're released
22:18:26	bluebroth3r	we do have separate lists.
22:18:50	bluebroth3r	the targets are classified as stable, unstable and unusable. That is shown in the device selection dialog in Rockbox Utility
22:19:14	bluebroth3r	it also checkes for the latest release available for the selected player. If there's a release then it can install the release.
22:19:37	bluebroth3r	though there is currently no distinguishing done for Themes, Bootloaders, and various other additional stuff.
22:20:45	bluebroth3r	according to Rockbox Utility the Clip is stable.
22:21:22	gevaerts	yes, and the cgis assume that stable == released
22:21:47	bluebroth3r	they do? I thought the release list is statically
22:22:27	gevaerts	at least byhand.cgi does that
22:22:48	bluebroth3r	ok, that explains why I saw a broken clip link earlier today
22:24:19	AlexP	bluebroth3r: I don't know if you saw my question yesterday - I was just wondering if there is anything holding back a rbutil release as there are more and more people with recent e.g. fuzes that it can't do
22:24:33	AlexP	Which I believe is already fixed in SVN?
22:24:42	bluebroth3r	as for the questions about a new Rockbox Utility release: I'd really like to address FS #11496 first, but I guess it's more important to have a new release. I did a workaround (add an option to limit the threads to 1) but I can't really test taht.
22:24:57	AlexP	heh :)
22:25:00	bluebroth3r	I might just commit that and push a new release. Any ideas on that issue? domonoky?
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22:25:33	*	bluebroth3r goes installing the new Qt release on Mac
22:25:47		Quit esperegu (Remote host closed the connection)
22:26:22	AlexP	bluebroth3r: My choice would be to work round it and release
22:27:03	gevaerts	bluebroth3r: the ipod video 64mb handling is gone in svn?
22:27:03	*	bluebroth3r grumbles at those weird paths on OS X
22:27:08	bluebroth3r	gevaerts: yes
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23:15:18	*	bluebroth3r grumbles
23:15:38	bluebroth3r	changing the number of threads to 1 doesn't seem to actually change the number of threads used :(
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23:22:02	*	kugel notices the following limit on his phone "apps/playlist_viewer.c:#define MAX_PLAYLIST_ENTRIES 200"
23:22:33	kugel	rockbox can crash if you scroll very quickly in a playlist with over 200 entries
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23:30:13	saratoga	anyone want to comment on that guys build errors using git on the forums?
23:30:18	saratoga	i have no idea what hes doing
23:32:22	shuffle2	link?
23:32:26		Quit hebz0rl (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:33:09	saratoga	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=25777.msg172123;topicseen#msg172123
23:34:07	kugel	saratoga: I suspect his checkout is broken due to the svn commit message editing, and that version.sh errors out because it asks git for the revision
23:34:19	saratoga	so he probably just needs to start over with SVN?
23:35:49	shuffle2	as far as version, `git-svn info` can probably provide what is needed...but he'd need to modify the script or smth
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