#rockbox 2010-09-24

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#rockbox log for 2010-09-24

00:01:05	pixelma	I don't know, would have to try how this works exactly but some of the timeout tags work with out the ?, e.g. %t for the subline timeout
00:01:49		Quit captainkewllllll (Quit: Page closed)
00:02:18	fml	pixelma: I thought all conditionals (which %t is not) require a ?
00:03:01	pixelma	hmm, true and a recent forum example states the same
00:04:12	fml	pixelma: I'm now almost 100% sure that there should be a ?
00:04:28	fml	But I can't try it now
00:06:06		Join kugel [0] (~kugel@109.250.20.134)
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00:06:34	fml	I think we should change all the predicate tags (i.e. those that answer some question with Yes/No) to just return e.g. "T" in case of "true", not any special texts ("starting" for %pS)
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00:15:50	kugel	pixelma: ping
00:16:15	pixelma	pong
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00:16:42	pixelma	fml: maybe, but I don't want to decide this now
00:17:07	kugel	pixelma: did I fix any known playlist viewer bug? I saw your message but I wasn't sure what you meant exactly
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00:18:37	pixelma	well, the bug was fixed at least as far as I could tell as a user. I wondered thoug if it was only hidden or worked around in the code before when I saw your cleanup
00:18:50	pixelma	or "though"
00:19:43	kugel	I believe my change was a real fix, but I'm not aware of any known (i.e. reported on FS) bug
00:21:19		Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.)
00:21:57	pixelma	there were none currently but shortly after the live "moving" of tracks if you edit the playlist was introduced there were some weird ones (like the track to move was off by one or couldn't be placed in the first or last position)
00:23:13	pixelma	as I said it was "fixed" as I didn't experience them anymore, I was just curious how much "fix" or more hack it was before internally
00:25:46	kugel	off by one sounds a lot like it could be fixed by my change
00:26:40	kugel	the playlist viewer actually determined the selected item in a strange way (i.e. in another way than calling list_selected_item() when ACTION_STD_OK was returned)
00:28:32	pixelma	guessed there was some hacking around then before
00:30:53	kugel	I'm not sure if it's "hacking". as you might've noticed from my monologues the past nights I'm very much confused by the list code. I think changes are higher that someone just got it wrong
00:31:47	kugel	but I and [sko] are being working on improving the list code a bit, so it's come to my attention
00:32:12	pixelma	possibly
00:32:21	kugel	list code w.r.t. to touchscreen*. I'm very happy how it works on "normal" targets but it just doesn't work as nice on touchscreen
00:33:05	kugel	I think we're on a good way, I'm actually surprised how little changes it needed to make basic swipe work
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00:35:32	kugel	btw, I'm showing RaaA to some of my fellow studends, and they are quite impressed
00:36:11	kugel	I'm quite surprised, rb generally still sucks on both touchscreen and host integration, but our fine features apparently outweight it
00:36:40	kugel	I'm still shocked that the built-in player doesn't even have a dynamic playlist
00:36:48	pixelma	nice :) Do you think we'll get some more developers?
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00:37:23	kugel	that's one of my strongest desires
00:37:58	kugel	if only there wasn't the HTC bug in our way
00:38:15	kugel	most people are going to blame us because the HTC firmware is bugged
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00:39:36	Bagder	is that particular bug explained in detail somewhere?
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00:42:37	kugel	Bagder: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/970a91cb7a768723 (google for "startForeground broken" and you'll have some more infos)
00:44:03	kugel	essentially the "make my app get more cpu by being a foreground service once I call startForeground()" just doesn't make it foreground on htc
00:46:12	kugel	I tested rb on some friend's android (non-htc) phones and it just worked perfectly
00:47:34	Bagder	well, saying "htc" is a bit misleading since it works on some htc phones
00:48:06	kugel	http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=9663 is the bug report
00:48:30	Bagder	yes, and it says the nexus one doesn't show it for example
00:49:30	kugel	yea, it has stock android
00:49:30	Bagder	weird thing in general methinks
00:50:10	kugel	it's manufactured by htc but it doesn't have the htc firmware (i.e. htc sense)
00:50:11	Bagder	the entire concept I mean, talking about foreground and background etc
00:50:32	Bagder	I have a htc magic, it runs the stock android too
00:50:53	kugel	so I guess it works fine for you
00:51:23	Bagder	but how can all the other sound apps work in the background?
00:51:31	Bagder	or don't they?
00:51:53	kugel	what do you mean by "all others"
00:52:06	Bagder	the stock music one, streaming music apps etc
00:52:33	Bagder	spotify, grooveshark, there are a bazillion
00:52:44	kugel	by guess is: there are the ones that use the PlayerManager (or whatever it's called) api which does decoding etc. for you
00:52:54	kugel	that api probably isn't affected
00:53:17	kugel	but those which use the AudioTrack api (which can only play back plain pcm data) are affected
00:53:19	Bagder	but how is the API connected to the scheduling?
00:53:51	kugel	I suppose the PlayerManager api creates a system level propcess behind the scenes
00:54:19	kugel	you can clearly see the the "/media/soundserver" process when running the stock music app
00:54:45	kugel	rockbox doesn't doesn't use this process, because we decode on our own
00:55:37	Bagder	ok, thanks for the explanations!
00:55:44	kugel	it may very well be an intention of htc to cripple 3rd party music apps, but it seems to be fixed in their 2.2 updates (according to rasher's top output)
00:58:11	kugel	unfortunately we cannot do much about it, at best it stucks less once we enable our asm optimizations. But I'm afraid there are not as effective as they are on our classic targets so it'll probably still stuck sometimes on htc phones
00:59:27		Quit Staphylo (Quit: Bye les gens =))
00:59:43	Bagder	unless there's some funky work-around to be found
00:59:45	kugel	the "PlayerManager" api is actually called MediaPlayer (I forgot the exact name)
01:00
01:00:38	kugel	we could switch to that, but that'd mean losing 4/5 of our supported codecs which we most likely don't want :)
01:03:52	Samuel	kugel may i ask you a question which is not related to RockBox but to the hardware (ipod nano 1g) it supports?
01:04:23	kugel	no, sorry :)
01:04:47	kugel	ipod nano1g just isn't my area of expertise
01:05:34		Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:05:38	kugel	but I think it's the best you just ask and hope someone replies (keep watching the irc logs)
01:07:09	Samuel	I already posted it a few hours ago. I thought u could possible help me, cause you sound very familar with the rockbox Source
01:09:26	kugel	that doesn't mean anything :)
01:10:15	kugel	people can look at sources, but forget everything after 3 month if they're not actively working on it
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01:10:54	Samuel	It is always worth a try, so i just asked :)
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01:13:45	wodz	\o/ - just hacked png viewer to 1) correctly support mrobe500 2) support greyscale targets
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01:23:56	kugel	wodz (logs): \☺/
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02:10:27	notlistening	Hi can someone give me 2 mins of their time I am compiling or trying to the Android app. configure is showing errors about arm-eabi-gcc) is not in your path!
02:10:28	notlistening	[WARNING] this may cause your build to fail since we cannot do the
02:10:28	notlistening	[WARNING] checks we want now.
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02:11:22	notlistening	however which on the commandline gives /home/tom/rockbox/android_build/android-ndk-r4b/build/prebuilt/linux-x86/arm-eabi-4.4.0/bin//arm-eabi-gcc
02:11:47	notlistening	which configure also tell me to use
02:12:00	notlistening	but that it is no in my path
02:12:43	notlistening	I added it to .bashrc
02:12:57	krazykit	did you log out and back in?
02:13:05	notlistening	many times :D
02:13:19	krazykit	are you sure you're using bash for your shell ;)
02:13:33	notlistening	but i will try again
02:14:01	notlistening	well i have used this method before when compiling for the Clip+ with arm
02:14:14	notlistening	brb
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02:17:41	notlistening	Nope same problem
02:17:48	notlistening	which return the right location
02:18:01	notlistening	./configure warms about not finding them
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02:22:59	notlistening	changed to the shell the script is using and exectute which and again it return the right location
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03:57:01	loopernow	hi, i tried to install rockbox on my sansa clip v1. First problem was there was is a problem with the automatic installer, it points to 3.6 firmware which gives 404. Then I tried current build and the installer got a zlib error of some kind while unpacking. Finally, tried manually pasting files into the clip and got an out of space msg. So, last but not least, I tried reformatting the drive and am still having problems. Only a quick format worked and th
04:00
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04:10:06	G4Oblivion	Just stopped by to report a theme I saw on the themes page. Someone submitted a theme called "Windows" it uses the windows icon and a couple other windows icons.
04:10:20	G4Oblivion	I'm pretty sure this isn't allowed?
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04:16:45	loopernow	I pasted the .rockbox folder into the empty player and now the firmware is working.
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04:38:20	shuffle2	how can i debug a lockup in a way which does not involve random guessing?
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04:43:40	shuffle2	behold my random lockup finder! if (timetodie) { for(;;) { logf("still here!"); sleep(HZ); } }
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04:43:47	shuffle2	;_;
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05:53:34	shuffle2	how is it that timer_unregister() takes no params?
05:54:30	shuffle2	only one timer may be registered at a time?
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07:49:20	shuffle2	aaand fixed again. for good this time :)
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08:48:12	wodz	http://www.pastie.org/1178626 <- what is the point of defining macro in this way?
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08:53:34	shuffle2	so one is forced to place a ";" after using the macro
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08:54:43	shuffle2	personally i think it's silly :p
08:54:49	wodz	me too
08:55:14	wodz	I'll have to check if compiler optimizes this artificial loop out
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08:55:47	shuffle2	it is a constant expression: the compiler has to do so
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09:01:18	amiconn	shuffle2: Yes, the timer can be used by only one application at a time
09:01:50	amiconn	This is because (on most targets) there are only two hardware timers, one of which is permanently in use for the tick interrupt
09:02:58	shuffle2	it makes sense, but imo there should be an abstraction to juggle the single timer in the background, and register as many as you want
09:03:11	shuffle2	no big deal, worked around it already :p
09:04:17	amiconn	That won't work
09:04:47	amiconn	The timer is meant to be as accurate as the hardware allows, but not all platforms allow reprogramming the timer on the fly
09:05:21	amiconn	I mean, reprogramming on the fly in a way that still guarantees the correct cycle count
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09:06:36	amiconn	There is a mechanism that allows limited sharing. The register function allows to specify a priority and a callback. If there is a timer application that doesn't strictly require it, it can register with a low priority
09:07:14	amiconn	If another application registers the timer specifying a higher priority, the first application gets unregistered and notified via callback
09:07:46	amiconn	This mechanism is used on iriver H1x0, where the core does backlight fading using the timer, but we still want plugins using the timer to work
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09:08:07	amiconn	The core simply falls back to not fading while the timer is in use by the plugin
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09:19:07	shuffle2	http://gist.github.com/594966
09:19:09	shuffle2	rofl
09:19:18	shuffle2	github fails at binary =)
09:20:03	shuffle2	or am i just abusing it? hehe
09:20:19	Stummi	hrhr
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09:29:26	wodz	I would like to call for test of FS #11641
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09:55:51	gevaerts	G4Oblivion: thanks for reporting
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10:09:42	notlistening	Right again i have problems with the path for the build tools on the android build.. could the problem be that I have put the sdk in the build folder..?
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10:24:12	gevaerts	notlistening: what does "echo $PATH" say?
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10:48:53	RobHu	How do I rebuild the database?
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10:57:05	notlistening	gevaerts. /usr/local/arm-elf/bin:/home/tom/rockbox/android_build/android-ndk-r4b/build/prebuilt/linux-x86/arm-eabi-4.4.0/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
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11:05:05	gevaerts	notlistening: and /home/tom/rockbox/android_build/android-ndk-r4b/build/prebuilt/linux-x86/arm-eabi-4.4.0/bin/ definitely has the right binaries in it?
11:09:59	wodz	gevaerts: You own mrobe500 do you?
11:10:32	gevaerts	wodz: yes, but I only own it. It's currently not in my possession :)
11:10:36	gevaerts	pamaury has it
11:11:01	wodz	ok
11:12:53	*	Llorean didn't know someone had gotten psgroove working on Rockbox.
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11:16:44	AlexP	Llorean: I didn't think they had have they?
11:17:35	AlexP	huh, he was here overnight but I didn't pick up from that that he had it anywhere near working
11:18:22	*	shuffle2 feels weird; this is the second time people spoke about him while he's right here, idling
11:19:28	AlexP	heh :)
11:19:39	AlexP	So what is the status then?
11:19:40	shuffle2	also, gevaerts and pamaury deserve a lot of credit :)
11:19:57	shuffle2	github.com/shuffle2/rockbox_psgroove
11:22:09	Torne	so the important question here is "does that contain any changes to our usb code which might ever be useful for anything else"
11:22:25	Torne	and "can that be integrated without breaking normal usb" :)
11:22:26	shuffle2	almost definitely no
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11:23:42	shuffle2	would be nice to have ability to set packet size at run time...but i don't think rockbox really has a reason to do that
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11:48:38	Luman	Hello :)
11:49:52	Luman	?
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11:53:52	Luman	helloooo?
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12:10:44	Luman	Hi
12:11:32	Torne	please don't do that
12:11:38	Torne	if you want to say something, say it
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12:52:50	soap	gevaerts, I'll narrow it down when I get back from work in ~12 hours, but there is an issue with the work you did to cleanup the /firmware/export/config #defines the other day.
12:53:44	soap	Disabling pitchscreen / recording / tagcache / quickscreen / morse input breaks playback.
12:54:05	soap	s/disabling/undefining/ ?
12:54:38	soap	Regardless, playback (if you can call it that) happens at a faster-than-normal speed w/o actual audio being output.
12:55:44	soap	I ASSume it's related to pitch? I'll determine which one it is tonight when I get home, but I'm late as is.
12:55:51	gevaerts	no idea...
12:56:10	soap	builds clean, but doesn't work.
12:57:49	soap	oh, and the last piece of "knowledge" I have is that the issue is persistent across reboots, and persistent across .cfg clearing. Also I was attempting playback of MP3s, and FM works fine on the Sansa E200.
12:58:05	soap	Behavior seen in both E200 and iPod 5G.
13:00
13:05:41	soap	sorry it took so long to realize this, but I've only been using my e200 as an FM radio this week.
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13:07:40	Wim	Hi!
13:07:49	Wim	?
13:07:52	Wim	????????????????????????????????????????????????
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13:18:55	notlistening	gevaerts, umm i am not sure if it does have the right binaries in it.. i thought i was after arm-eabi-gcc etc
13:19:31	gevaerts	notlistening: something similar to those, yes. I don't know the exact binaries for android though
13:21:26	notlistening	Okay well i will wait till Mr Android come to chat
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13:27:46	Luman	Hello?
13:29:23	gevaerts	Luman: if you have a question, just ask
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13:43:07	Zagor	notlistening: it doesn't actually have to be in your path. as long as $ANDROID_NDK_PATH points to the root ndk dir
13:47:17	notlistening	right
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14:03:27	CIA-81	New commit by zagor (r28156): Minor build script tweaks to make android auto-buildable.
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14:15:28	CIA-81	r28156 build result: 1 errors, 0 warnings (zagor committed)
14:16:52	Zagor	that error will vanish next commit
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14:30:43	treize	60 gb 5th gen ipod hard drive died. Going to replace it with 16 gb transcend x133 compact flash. Will I have to format it in itunes to install rockbox? As I understand it itunes 9 will not allow < 60 gb for 60 gb ipods. Also, I don't want to run down the battery, and tried to charge with hard drive disconnected (brand new battery) but ipod keeps restarting and occasionally saying low battery...is it possible to charge the ipod with no d
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14:32:06	Torne	treize: it's easiest/best to format it with itunes, yes
14:32:15	Torne	and no, i don't think you can charge witn on disk
14:32:21	Torne	and no, itunes doesn't care how big your hard drive is
14:32:28	Torne	it should format any size drive in any ipod
14:33:22	treize	not even itunes 9? I heard that the update that killed palm pre syncing checks that hard disk size is at least the amount your ipod should have... at least thats what it says on the guy selling the zif to compact flash adapters
14:34:00	Torne	that seems like a weird and arbitrary thing for them to do, and i've never heard of it, but it's possible
14:34:15	Torne	people generally upgrade the drives, rather than fitting smaller ones.
14:34:26	gevaerts	I doubt that. There are 1GB ipods...
14:34:55	treize	I don't want to make it seem like i'm doubting you guys... just checking. Thanks!
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14:35:06	Torne	if itunes doesn't care that you put a 240GB drive in a 30GB ipod i don't see why they shoul care that you put a 16GB one in a 60GB ipod
14:35:12	Torne	it just formats it as whatever capacity the disk says it is
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14:35:30	Torne	anyway, if it doesn't then you can format it manually
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14:35:42	Torne	but it's slightly complicated and fiddly and sometimes people have trouble getting it to work
14:35:48	treize	so I don't really need itunes to format it then right?
14:35:57	Torne	so we generally suggest people use itunes unless they absolutely can't get a windows machine
14:35:59	treize	I wouldn't mind doing a manual install
14:36:09	treize	I don't have a windows machine unfortunately
14:36:17	treize	only mac os x and linux
14:36:25	gevaerts	treize: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodManualRestore is what you need then
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14:36:45	treize	sweet... thanks gevaerts.
14:36:46	Torne	does the mac version of itunes still always format ipods as HFS? I guess..
14:37:12	treize	it does, but I can use linux to format it
14:37:28	treize	at least...thats what I did. Mine is fat32 formatted
14:37:38	Torne	probably easiest then is to restore it on the mac on itunes
14:37:43	Torne	so the partition layout and firmware partition get filled in
14:37:49		Quit dfkt_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:37:52	Torne	and then just reformat the data partition with any old fat format utility
14:38:06	Torne	setting up the partitions and extracting the firmware onto it is the bit that's fiddly
14:38:08	gevaerts	Torne: I doubt that
14:38:17	gevaerts	They use a different partition table format
14:38:17	treize	I'll try it. My drive just died so I'm sitting on my hands till my cf card and adapter come in.
14:38:20	Torne	gevaerts: they do?
14:38:23	Torne	oh
14:38:29	Torne	lame.
14:38:52	gevaerts	As far as I know, yes. They use the old mac partition table format I think
14:39:06	Torne	sucks.
14:39:22	Torne	don't they know PC BIOS MBRs and FAT is the transport standard? :)
14:39:35	treize	well it sucks because if you use a mac it won't update your firmware if your ipod is "pc formatted"
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15:27:33	amiconn	Zagor: Missing gfx...
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15:41:01	Zagor	amiconn: yeah, it wasn't supposed to be enabled yet
15:41:23	Zagor	I need to tweak the build server a little first
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16:01:14	newbie	hello
16:01:24	newbie	where i can download bootloader
16:01:31	newbie	sansa clip v1
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16:03:25	Stummi	hm, the download-link for sansaclip seems to be dead on the website
16:04:04	newbie	yeah it is really dead, but i found one in the FAQ
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16:59:25	AlexP	What is the feeling for the level of support we give to the psgroove stuff? I ask, as we have just got a question on the forums about how to use it: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=25796.0
16:59:50	AlexP	At the least it should be an unsupported build I think, but I'm not sure we should be offering support at all
17:00
17:00:10	AlexP	It feels to me more like a seperate project using Rockbox as a base, rather than an unsupported build
17:00:13	AlexP	Thoughts?
17:00:30	gevaerts	It depends on what happens next I think
17:01:13	Llorean	At the moment, any other patch. "Ask the author until it's on the tracker, ask in the tracker until there's a build, ask in the thread when there's a build" I think
17:01:52	AlexP	Thing is, will it end up on the tracker? from what shuffle2 was saying, he doesn't think there is anything in there that Rockbox would want to reuse
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17:03:36	AlexP	I just mean that if it is not going to be incorporated into Rockbox, and it isn't particularly related to Rockbox anyway (in function), should we be supporting it on the forums? It seems to me that if any support is going to be done, it might be better on shuffle2's github bit
17:03:58	gevaerts	From what I can see (from a quick look at the patch) it only needs one or two core driver changes to work, the HZ=1000 bit, and a way to select which USB driver to use.
17:04:33	AlexP	gevaerts: So you might want to incorporate bits of it?
17:04:45	gevaerts	The HZ=1000 bit may point (I think) to a bug or design issue in our scheduler, and the selecting USB drivers bit will have to be done at some point
17:04:50		Quit bmbl (Quit: Bye!)
17:04:57	gevaerts	AlexP: not exactly.
17:05:33	AlexP	gevaerts: The actual thing replaces normal USB doesn't it, so it can't be added wholesale anyway?
17:05:33	gevaerts	If especially those two last things are solved, you end up with something that's really a normal rockbox build, with one extra feature
17:05:56	AlexP	So it could be added without breaking normal USB?
17:06:21		Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection)
17:06:33	gevaerts	Well, I'm not at all sure if regular USB would work after using this without rebooting first, but as far as I understand the patch, yes
17:06:48	AlexP	ah, OK, I've misunderstood somewhat
17:07:00	AlexP	The next question then becomes more policy :)
17:07:10	gevaerts	I'm not saying we should add it, but it wouldn't really be very different from e.g. a build that adds the wikipedia plugin
17:08:15	gevaerts	Right now it is, but that's mainly because of things that can (and I think should) be fixed
17:09:54	gevaerts	I might be wrong about some details though. I'm sure shuffle2 will correct me though :)
17:13:02	Torne	i think if we can make minor changes to our code so that it's a more "normal" patch, then that's more useful, even if we don't actually put the patch in our tree
17:13:31	Torne	since if nothing else currently it would increase binsize since usb has to be in core :)
17:14:06	Torne	but yeah, it'd be nice if someone could reasonably do a custom build that was both a functional rockbox install and the exploit dongle, even if you had to reboot between or whatever.
17:14:20	Torne	since you need to use the exploit thing every time, so wanting to do this is not a one-off event..
17:15:01	gevaerts	The current solution is one RoLo away, so from a usage point of view it's not that bad
17:15:18	Torne	well that's not awful, no
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17:18:11	gevaerts	The only driver bits I see are blocking receive (which is a one line function, and which I think pamaury's usb audio work adds as well), and settable max packet sizes (which should be there arguably anyway)
17:18:28	Torne	well, the rolo option you could make it even easier..
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17:18:34	Torne	just have the patch also murder most of Rockbox :)
17:18:41	Torne	and build a rockbox.ipod (or whatever) which does nothing else
17:18:42	Torne	and just rolo that.
17:18:49	Torne	with a button that reboots back again :)
17:19:23	gevaerts	Oh, sure :)
17:19:53	gevaerts	There are some changes to usb_core.c that I think can also be done cleanly
17:20:44	gevaerts	And then there's the psgroove.c file which does nasty things a normal USB device shouldn't even be thinking about, but as far as I can see it does those only by using existing functions
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17:23:10	gevaerts	And then finally I'd really like it if this HZ=1000 hack wouldn't be needed to get sufficient latency. I suspect it's because of queue_wait() not returning immediately but instead waiting for the next tick
17:24:29	gevaerts	That may be rather tricky to achieve though
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17:39:35	*	gevaerts tries to understand thread.c and kernel.c
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17:44:45	shuffle2	fwiw i don't think psgroove should really be merged into rockbox at all
17:45:17		Part likemindead
17:45:21	shuffle2	it has completely different use from rockbox...and destroys ability to act like other usb devices by design
17:45:50	shuffle2	rockbox as a firmware was just a means to an end
17:46:12	shuffle2	because i'm lazy and don't want to make a minimal firmware to do such a thing
17:46:17	shuffle2	=)
17:47:04	shuffle2	and also
17:47:35	shuffle2	psgroove is a bunch of hacks to exploit a temporary (and already twice fixed) bug...
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17:48:48	gevaerts	shuffle2: the main problem we (rockbox) have right now is that people ask questions about it :)
17:49:00	shuffle2	heh
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17:49:21	Torne	shuffle2: also, just because this thing isn't high priority doesn't mean things like having to hack HZ are irrelevant to us
17:49:25	gevaerts	Apart from that, your work has highlighted some issues, and those I think should be thought about
17:49:30	Torne	you shouldn't really have had to do that
17:49:36	shuffle2	yes i saw some unsavory people come about already :p
17:49:37	Torne	and that might be an issue for something else in future :)
17:49:45	Torne	so, it's still useful
17:50:11	gevaerts	Actually, fixing that latency issue might speed up usb storage a bit
17:50:19	Torne	yeah.
17:50:40	shuffle2	actually that was from before I started actually using the event queues
17:50:53	*	gevaerts thinks
17:50:54	shuffle2	...when it was a pile of magic spaghetti :>
17:51:05	shuffle2	so...i will try with HZ=100
17:51:12	gevaerts	right
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17:51:46	shuffle2	but also...i just like having ms granularity
17:51:49	shuffle2	10ms just feels strange
17:52:05	gevaerts	Actually, on ipod video we can do 12MB/s or thereabouts, and we use 64kb transfers on USB, so we do 200 transfers per second. That means that USB handling doesn't wait for ticks
17:52:31	shuffle2	psgroove was designed for shitty atmel usb controllers
17:52:50	shuffle2	i plan to try and get it working at high speed and 64B packets, sometime
17:53:18	shuffle2	and remove some other hacks which appeared because of laziness :>
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17:53:54	gevaerts	shuffle2: scheduling is cooperative, so scheduling latency doesn't depend on the tick frequency, and a 10ms interval therefore allows ten times longer low-power sleep periods than 1ms on mostly-idle systems :)
17:54:08	gevaerts	Which is a big deal on battery powered devices
17:54:33	shuffle2	the problem is just that the ps3 needs rather fast responses
17:54:46	gevaerts	Yes, but those should really not depend on HZ
17:54:54	gevaerts	If they do, there's a bug somewhere
17:55:39	gevaerts	And if that bug is in our code, we want to know
18:00
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18:09:45	amiconn	[17:18:32] <Torne> just have the patch also murder most of Rockbox :)
18:10:11	amiconn	^ That would be rather similar to what bootbox does on the archoses.
18:10:13	Torne	yeah
18:10:37	amiconn	It's also almost the same to (normal) bootloaders - re-use the firmware layer, add custom app layer
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18:33:21	shuffle	hello
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18:57:01	shuffle2	shuffle was ~5706abbd@giant.haxx.se * [host189-171-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.i
18:57:06	shuffle2	strange...
18:58:16	Samuel	Wasn't you?
18:58:24	shuffle2	no
19:00
19:02:32	Samuel	Hey Papst I finally got the Display running :)
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19:04:20	Samuel	But i don't know where the bug is. I only need to reboot the iPod twice :S
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19:18:22	slothearn	is there a way to replace rockbox.ipod without getting a checksum error?
19:18:27	slothearn	like, with a modified version?
19:18:39	gevaerts	Sure, use one for your model of ipod
19:18:48	shuffle2	hehe
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19:21:18	PaulJam	hi, i have an ipod video (g5.5), and in usb mode the disk spins down a few seconds after the last access. is there a way to increase this time untill the disk spins down in usb mode?
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19:23:15	gevaerts	PaulJam: that uses the standard spindown timeout
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19:24:15	PaulJam	oh, i didn't expect that. wouldn't it make sense to have a longer spindown delay when the device is powered by usb?
19:24:34	PaulJam	but thanks for the info.
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19:37:43	slothearn	gevaerts: guessing you've had a lot of my same question here today, eh?
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19:45:13	shuffle2	fwiw my ipod is model a1136
19:45:34	shuffle2	as far as i know, this is 5.0 generation video ipod...yes?
19:45:45	slothearn	same model I have
19:45:49	slothearn	5.0 or 5.5G
19:45:55	slothearn	fairly certain it's 5 though
19:46:26	gevaerts	5.0 and 5.5 only have different disks and LCDs
19:46:49	shuffle2	the question is why his ipod doesn't accept firmware i compile
19:47:11	shuffle2	and no, i'm not aware of whatever protection is at work here :)
19:47:55	slothearn	afaik it just checks the data in the 8 byte header of the images
19:48:18	shuffle2	ya well, that's just a rockbox header, isn't it?
19:48:29	slothearn	I suppose
19:48:55		Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
19:52:25	slothearn	hella mysterious :O
19:52:49	*	shuffle2 goes to compile rockbox again
19:52:57	shuffle2	no bsod this time, kthx gcc
19:53:02	Torne	sounds like the file might be corrupt..
19:53:29	shuffle2	ya i'll send him another compile once it's done :)
19:53:33	shuffle2	er
19:53:34	gevaerts	shuffle2: I noticed one thing in your patch. Why \ and not / as a path separator in your include statements?
19:53:37	shuffle2	them*
19:53:47	shuffle2	ahhh
19:53:53	shuffle2	from Visual Assist X
19:53:59	shuffle2	autofills paths
19:54:08	shuffle2	i'll change it
19:54:28	Torne	well gcc is probably indifferent tbh
19:55:09	shuffle2	ya it depends on your FS. but it's bad style :p
19:55:33	shuffle2	or, maybe it's a patch on mingw's gcc...not sure
19:56:18	Torne	no, i mean gcc doesn't care at all
19:56:20	Torne	on any os
19:56:26	shuffle2	no, it does
19:56:33	shuffle2	at least g++ does
19:56:43	Torne	it shouldn't.
19:56:45	shuffle2	tbh i don't normally use C-only :)
19:56:57	Torne	and g++ is the exact same compiler
19:57:13	shuffle2	well I know from people bickering that \ causes problems on non-win32
19:57:17	slothearn	ha, alright...
19:57:27	slothearn	people are distributing corrupt versions of your patch, shuffle2
19:57:36	shuffle2	good for them
19:57:38	shuffle2	i guess
19:57:41	slothearn	just got it directly from your github
19:57:42	Torne	it can cause problems with some stuff, but gcc itself doesn't care
19:57:48	slothearn	the iPod now shows up as a generic USB hub :)
19:57:55	shuffle2	yay, problem solved
19:58:17	notlistening	had anyone here build the rockbox apk..?
19:58:36	shuffle2	Torne are you going to get at what it does cause problems with?
19:59:05	shuffle2	i'd like to know. but i hate beating around bushes :p
20:00
20:00:47	notlistening	after running make apk the only .apk files are in the /bin file is that right..?
20:02:25	shuffle2	slothearn i would laugh very hard if these are people trying to edit the raw .ipod file to allow the backup manager
20:02:40	slothearn	I believe some of them are
20:02:42	shuffle2	as the file is obviously checksum'd ;p
20:02:47	shuffle2	ha, thought so
20:02:55	slothearn	saw one guy who had the right idea though
20:03:03	slothearn	was getting the Rockbox devkit stuff together
20:03:08	slothearn	but he couldn't get it working
20:03:44	AlexP	That's because there isn't a devkit
20:03:55	AlexP	Someone called bluechip distributed one about 6 years ago
20:03:58	AlexP	But that is it
20:03:59	slothearn	XD, any idea what the dude might have been downloading?
20:04:01	slothearn	hahahahaha
20:07:05	slothearn	tbh though, someone will inevitably build a working backup manager compatible version
20:15:10	slothearn	btw, Rockbox pwns hard guys.
20:15:27	slothearn	think I only discovered it like last year.
20:16:18	slothearn	recently replaced the HDD in my iPod too, simply to be able to run it. probably wouldn't use my 5G anymore if it didn't exist
20:16:25	AlexP	ta :)
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20:25:21	shuffle2	gevaerts :)
20:25:27	shuffle2	works fine with HZ=100
20:27:07	gevaerts	Excellent!
20:27:12	*	gevaerts can sleep properly now
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20:30:11	Samuel	shuffle2 psgroove finally working?
20:30:22	shuffle2	ya
20:30:33	Samuel	nice :)
20:31:18	Samuel	What payload are u using? The original one from psjailbreak?
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20:32:22	shuffle2	all the descriptor data is unmodified from psgroove
20:32:27	amiconn	gevaerts: On hdd targets with sw usb we should probably have a separate spindown setting for usb mode (with a sane default)
20:32:34	slothearn	odd, I'm not getting the install package menu :O
20:32:54	shuffle2	slothearn you know you have to hard reboot the ps3, right?
20:32:58	slothearn	yep
20:33:00	slothearn	and press eject
20:33:08	shuffle2	power then eject
20:33:11	slothearn	yup
20:33:20	slothearn	tried spamming eject too, but to no avail :(
20:33:27	slothearn	3.41, etc...
20:34:01	slothearn	I do get, "Unknown USB device connected" though
20:34:13	shuffle2	reboot the ipod and try again
20:34:32	slothearn	will do, do I need to have another dongle with a specific directory structure?
20:34:34	shuffle2	go to the debug menu and show the log while the ps3 boots up
20:34:40	Samuel	shuffle2 are you going to release your piece of work? :)
20:34:40	shuffle2	no
20:34:50	shuffle2	Samuel shuffle2/rockbox_psgroove">http://github.com/shuffle2/rockbox_psgroove
20:35:10	Samuel	oh didn't know and couldn't find anything in the logs
20:35:30	shuffle2	slothearn in fact, no other usb devices should be plugged in before the ipod has finished doing it's job
20:35:53	shuffle2	also i heard that the drive should be empty
20:36:02	shuffle2	(when booting)
20:36:24	shuffle2	does that stuff already apply to you? :)
20:36:30	Samuel	will try it with an ipod nano 1g
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20:38:53	Samuel	slothearn u have a ps3 slim or fat?
20:39:57	slothearn	fat
20:40:05	Samuel	hm k :S
20:40:11	slothearn	psgroove init 37.572
20:40:21	slothearn	is the log dump
20:40:30	shuffle2	it should take ~7 seconds to complete
20:40:40	shuffle2	it feels longer than it is :p
20:40:43	slothearn	and yep, I'll remove the dongle I just put in and try again. how bad is the window for timing between power and eject?
20:40:54	shuffle2	200ms
20:41:01	pixelma	I'm not sure if this talk has a place in the Rockbox channel
20:41:16	slothearn	pixelma: but Rockbox makes it possible :)
20:41:21	shuffle2	efnet #ps3dev then
20:41:28	slothearn	indeed. one sec.
20:43:54	AlexP	pixelma: Yes, I was wondering about this earlier
20:44:07	AlexP	It doesn't actually seem Rockbox related, it was just built on Rockbox
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20:52:46	bertrik	Is it possible to make the file browser start at in specific directory on startup ("MUSIC" for example)?
20:58:02	bertrik	a bit similar to how we can set a directory for recording, except now for playback
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21:07:12	*	Buschel just rockboxed his "new" nano2g :)
21:07:44	CIA-81	New commit by alle (r28157): Correct the examples of usage of %pS and %pE in the manual
21:09:34	CIA-81	r28157 build result: All green
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22:10:05	factor	I just got in my sansa fuze to rca cable , I could not get any audio or video out of the lines.
22:10:22	factor	so I guess its not active in my version , this is the orig kernel not the rock box.
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22:20:28	bertrik	maybe the OF only enables audio on the dock connector when it actually detects a dock
22:20:40	bertrik	I'm quite sure you can't get video out of it
22:20:42	factor	How do I compile rbutil, what is the primary dir?
22:21:06	factor	yeah I could not get either audio or vid
22:22:11	krazykit	maybe look in rbutil/
22:22:20	factor	that is what I am trying now
22:22:27	krazykit	the INSTALL document should have what you need
22:22:32	factor	make seems to work. qmake did not
22:22:48	bertrik	I think qmake was recently made obsolete
22:22:51	factor	yup that is what I read form that thanks
22:22:56	factor	oh ok
22:23:01	bertrik	for rbutil building I mean
22:23:06	factor	so it seems
22:24:46	factor	was hoping the audio would work with the dock so I could make a nice dock to my car stereo
22:26:20	factor	so does the rbutil install the kernel to the fuze ?
22:26:28	factor	or just manage rockbox
22:26:54	bertrik	I may have been wrong about no longer needing qmake
22:27:44	factor	I am running rockbox utility right now
22:29:01	bertrik	I don't know, I've never used rbutil to install rockbox on an ams sansa
22:29:45	factor	will it do it?
22:29:53	factor	is that what its for?
22:30:06	factor	looks like it I see boot loader
22:30:36		Quit slothearn (Quit: Lost terminal)
22:33:17	gevaerts	factor: what do you mean by "the kernel"?
22:33:36	factor	firmware
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22:35:37	bertrik	factor, the most complex part is installation of the bootloader, the main rockbox firmware is basically just a bunch of files in the ".rockbox" directory on the player
22:36:19	bertrik	rbutil can do both, and install stuff like voice files, themes, etc. too
22:36:26		Quit drizztbsd (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:36:50	factor	ok. getting the firmware from the sansa sight right now
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22:40:55	factor	ok installed now get out of gui app and disconnect the player
22:42:04		Quit Synthbox (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:44:11	factor	nice
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22:47:58	factor	How do I boot back into the default firmware. So I can play my videos
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22:49:17	evilnick_B	It's in the manual
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22:54:21	factor	is any work in progress on getting mp4 's to play on rock box
22:54:40	bertrik	no
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22:56:52	factor	tried to install a theme it went back to my defaul load
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22:59:44	slothearn	http://pastebin.com/h9hNgBab
22:59:57	slothearn	br0ken :(
23:00
23:00:06	slothearn	rockbox.ipod is never built during make fullzip
23:00:13	factor	nice tuxbox theme
23:00:34	pixelma	factor: where did you get the theme from and which build did you install exactly
23:00:47	gevaerts	slothearn: was that in a clean directory?
23:00:52	slothearn	yup
23:00:59	slothearn	mkdir build; cd build; etc...
23:01:04	slothearn	the toolchain built fine too
23:01:10	gevaerts	Try "make bin"
23:01:28	factor	the RockBox utility
23:01:42	factor	Love the image background
23:01:48	factor	now if I had the mp4 playback
23:01:55	slothearn	that worked :)
23:02:21		Quit drizztbsd (Remote host closed the connection)
23:02:28	gevaerts	OK. Now run "make" again
23:02:44	factor	ok afk have to do some other stuff , rock box is nice though
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23:05:44	slothearn	ah, that seems to have worked just fine
23:05:51	slothearn	now make zip/fullzip should be good to go?
23:05:53	gevaerts	yes
23:06:12	gevaerts	We seem to have a makefile dependency issue again... :\
23:06:34	slothearn	the script to build the toolchain is pretty baller btw
23:06:52	slothearn	there's a similar setup on Gentoo, but it's very generic and sometimes breaks
23:08:30		Quit domonoky1 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:09:07	Bagder	it's slightly easier to make it for rockbox as we make crafted for rockbox
23:09:21	slothearn	can imagine
23:09:37	slothearn	not to hate on Gentoo's equivalent either
23:09:40	AlexP	What does baller mean?
23:09:41	slothearn	that thing is extremely useful as well
23:09:42	shuffle2	http://pastie.org/private/mzcoxap5scqb7ubub9gpwa
23:09:44	Bagder	and in fact, the gentoo compilers are known to not build rockbox properly ;-)
23:09:48	shuffle2	anyone seen this before? :s
23:09:53	slothearn	AlexP: it's white suburban kid for "cool"
23:10:04	AlexP	ah
23:10:24	Bagder	whoa, compiler crash
23:10:28	*	gevaerts never fully understood what "cool" means anyway. Sometimes it seems to mean "hot"...
23:10:33	AlexP	not being american and no longer being a kid (or indeed cool), that one had passed me by :)
23:10:43	slothearn	gevaerts: but would you say it to a woman?
23:10:55	slothearn	"baby, you're so cool. I wanna give you moisture-touches"
23:11:01	*	evilnick_B coughs quietly and points to #rockbox-community
23:11:07	slothearn	my bad :P
23:12:09	*	shuffle2 points at DOOM
23:12:13	shuffle2	bad doom :(
23:12:46	gevaerts	shuffle2: is that the compiler crashing, or some kernel or libc thing not liking some memory access patterns?
23:12:57	shuffle2	probably the latter
23:14:18	shuffle2	-fno-stack-protector
23:14:20	shuffle2	yay! :p
23:16:34	wodz	may I ask for quick test of FS #11641?
23:19:38		Quit evilnick_B (Quit: Page closed)
23:24:03	AlexP	wodz: I can do H100 in a bit, I'll post on the task when I have
23:26:07	soap	Yes, gevaerts, commenting out #define HAVE_PITCHSCREEN breaks playback. It also breaks the use of "make -j3".
23:26:36	*	TheSeven bets it also breaks "make -j4" then :P
23:26:41	gevaerts	soap: I believe the first bit, not the last. That one gets broken by something else :)
23:27:12	soap	nothing else I do prevents me from using -j or -j3
23:27:19	gevaerts	See also about half an hour ago
23:27:29	soap	the correlation here is 100%.
23:28:39	wodz	AlexP: thanks
23:28:43	soap	anything I can do to help you track it down?
23:28:57	soap	s/you/anyone/
23:29:30		Quit captainkewllllll (Quit: Page closed)
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23:30:26	gevaerts	soap: the -j3 breakage is probably a subtle dependency issue. Possibly HAVE_PITCHSCREEN makes just the right difference, but that's not the only trigger
23:31:21		Quit drizztbsd_ (Remote host closed the connection)
23:31:43	gevaerts	No audio if HAVE_PITCHSCREEN is undefined is going to be fun, unless someone who knows this area well steps in
23:31:49	soap	I can believe it's not the only trigger. I've been lucky, then, as it's the only one I've hit.
23:32:12	soap	no audio and playback appears speeded up if not stuttering.
23:32:41		Quit drizztbsd (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:32:47	soap	The track time remaining/passed moves ~200% realtime in what appears to be a jumpy fashion.
23:33:45	soap	I'll gladly get out my stopwatch and time exactly how fast it is running if that would be of any help. FM radio seems unaffected.
23:34:13	gevaerts	It sounds to me as if something doesn't pass the audio to the pcm buffer, presumably because it used to go via the pitch stuff that now does nothing
23:34:40	gevaerts	Does it go at different speeds if you try different codecs?
23:37:47	soap	I can test that.
23:38:04	soap	let me get a stopwatch and some different codecs.
23:45:07		Quit Llorean (Quit: Leaving.)
23:45:15	*	gevaerts really sees nothing in the source that would explain this
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23:51:30	gevaerts	OK, so disabling HAVE_PITCHSCREEN just turns everything into a giant test_codec
23:52:16		Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg)
23:52:19	*	gevaerts thinks someone who understands the audio code should look at this
23:53:32	soap	MP3 goes at 400% realtime, but hangs the player if second in playlist. Acts "normally" if first file in playlist.
23:55:25	soap	any change in codec appears to hang the player. "playback" continues but the player becomes unresponsive to button presses and the battery meter displays an incorrect battery voltage.
23:55:56	soap	and Vorbis "plays" at 360% realtime.

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