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#rockbox log for 2010-10-01

00:01:17 Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection)
00:08:19 Quit Jerom (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:10:22AlexPwodz: Seems fine
00:10:36AlexPJust a little slow to decode, but so was the last vrsion
00:11:04wodzhow does transparency look?
00:11:14wodzand what does it mean slow?
00:11:59AlexPtransparency is a little odd
00:12:01AlexPone mo
00:15:01AlexP does transparency as I would consider correctly - the transparent bit is "light"
00:15:14AlexP the transparent bits are dark/black
00:15:58wodzAlexP: It may be also that I turned off optimizations for debugging - check app/plugins/imageviewer/png/png.make and check if there is -Os
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00:18:01 Quit ender` (Quit: Do not meddle in the internals of kernels, for they are subtle and quick to panic.)
00:18:37AlexPFor slow, I mean e.g. (1500x750) takes 11 seconds to display from clicking on it, but it is a moderately large image so that might be expected
00:19:29AlexPwodz: Yeah, "PNGFLAGS = $(PLUGINFLAGS) -Os"
00:19:50 Join anewuser [0] (anewuser@unaffiliated/anewuser)
00:20:40wodzif you could try -O3
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00:23:51AlexPwodz: No difference, although you can take 4s off the previous time - that was disk spin up
00:25:10wodzthank you - I'll look how to speed this up
00:26:14wodzas of transparence - in sim everything look ok - I mean the pixels which are set to transperent have background color (white on greyscales)
00:26:40AlexPno worries :)
00:27:11AlexPI'm off to bed now, but leave me a note if you would like me to look at anything else
00:27:44wodzI am looking at support for gAMA correction chunk
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00:37:07cardamonAnyone know how to distinguish a Sansa Fuze v1 from v2?
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00:39:05cardamonI'm looking through the FAQ, but despite a link claiming to have what I'm looking for, I haven't figured it out yet.
00:40:06pixelma says "by checking the Sandisk firmware version number" ;)
00:40:51soapbug2000, do you have a GM car (regarding FS #11633)?
00:41:02cardamonLooks like I have a v2.
00:42:52soapbug2000, for every GM product with the newer (2006?) b/w bitmap display factory radios I've been in has a ground-loop issue when using the accessory power ports.
00:44:01pixelmacardamon: I linked you to a v1 manual, you can find links to the correct one under
00:44:49cardamonpixelma: Thanks, I'd found it already.
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01:57:52soapAnyone from the project ever try to engage Steve Jobs in one of his (in)famous late-night-surprisingly-honest email-exchanges re: Why does Apple feel the need to hate on third-party DAP hardware?
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02:05:52soapShould wiki access be granted for one-off posts?
02:06:00soapI could construct arguments both ways:
02:06:47soap1 - a reading of "Please don't register unless you actually intend to contribute." could be reasonably (I believe) interpreted to mean "please don't register for a one-off" OR
02:07:08soap2 - Flip side being that removing barriers to contribution aids in encouraging later contribution.
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05:37:09kasuma0hi i have a problem with an ipod nano 1g
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09:26:45factoris rockbox posix compliant?
09:27:23factorhow easy is it to convert a program from unix to rockbox.
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09:30:06wodzrockbox is not strictly posix compilant but porting unix apps is quite simple with two exceptions: 1)there is no malloc() 2)custom graphic subsystem
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09:36:11factorwodz, nice sounds fine to me
09:36:33AlexPno floating point either
09:37:04factorwas looking into making a stars app. like kstars but without a window manager of course and no pop up gui's etc..
09:37:15factorno floating point ouch
09:37:27AlexPWell you can
09:37:31AlexPBut it is dead slow
09:37:32wodzAlexP: doesn't compiler emit emulated code for floating point?
09:37:34factordo they have a way to simulate it.
09:37:36factoroh ok
09:37:46factoryes I would imagine since no acceleration hw
09:37:52factorthat is fine
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09:38:35factorI carry it with me most places and would like to pull it out and see what stars and planets and clusters and where the milky way is etc..
09:38:41factoror space events going on.
09:38:46AlexPSounds fun
09:39:01AlexPMight be a bit tricky to see on these size screens
09:39:14factorwould be cool to pull the database kstars has
09:39:43factorjust need to know the name and directions else its just a small point on a black screen
09:40:09wodzporting kstars is not feasible - first you will have to convert this from Qt/C++ to pure C and than to rockbox
09:40:13factorwoudl be like a virtual screen to scroll around on
09:40:48factortrue. but to use its database , I wont use its gui just main screen data
09:40:55wodzporting form C++ is really pain because mallocs are scattered all around
09:41:18factordont know of any stars progs in just c will have to check
09:41:41wodzit better to understand db format and write something from grounds up
09:42:07factorthat would work as well
09:42:15factorjust checking my options
09:43:15AlexPThe nice things about plugins is that there won't be any opposition to adding it as long as it does stuff like works on as many targets as possible (with the exception of hardware limitations), manual is nice, follows RB code guidelines etc.
09:43:24AlexPGetting stuff into core is a bit harder :)
09:43:42factorno doubt.
09:43:47factoryes it will be just a plugin
09:43:57AlexPSounds good, good luck :)
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10:09:44LloreanIs there any reason the jailbreak patched version of Rockbox would exhibit the "partiiton not found when hot" bug while a normal build wouldn't?
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12:29:13pixelmakugel: wb. Your playlist viewer changes seem to have turned up an off-by-one bug again, it looks like actually only the line selector is affected. If you move a track in the playlist the position below the current position of the moving track is highlighted (if I saw correctly, the icon is at the correct spot), that's a bit mind bending
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12:36:14kugelI thought I checked that
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12:39:47kugelseems to work on my phone
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12:51:30pixelmakugel: even if you move more than one step?
12:52:05pixelmaor try to
12:54:11kugelbut I don't scroll, but click on the destination spot directly
12:59:46pixelmathe problem is in the drawing of the move (esp. the line selector), not the move itself
13:00:22pixelmaon non-touchscreen targets - seen on my M5 and c200
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13:37:05Stephenc___anyone about who would know how to use the slider option on teh progress bar ?
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13:46:04Stephenc___Do I need %pb(x,y,width,height[options]) are the square brackets needed ?
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13:57:54Tornethe square brackets mean those parts are optional
13:58:00Torneyou don't include them in the WPS
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14:10:36SanerDoes anyone know if I can use (or where to get) the partition table for a 2gig second gen ipod nano, I need to get it to fat32 and dont have a windows box, online linux
14:10:53SanerI am unsure if I can use the 1st gen ones
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16:40:32CIA-81New commit by teru (r28189): text editor: decrease size of extension to reduce stack usage. ...
16:42:51CIA-81r28189 build result: All green
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18:48:41soaprequesting a polite and sane attempt at "damage" control.
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19:04:36Guest71634soap just use decent virus scanner :)
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19:09:58Guest75106what do nordic boobs look like?
19:10:22Mode"#rockbox +o Torne" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
19:12:27TorneGuest75106: on-topic only in here please
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19:14:10Mode"#rockbox -o Torne" by Torne (torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
19:15:53alexbobP"My point is that as a community-driven application, it is my part to inform about things that could be looked upon by the developers, in this case, even if it is a false positive, why is there a false positive in an installation package."
19:15:58alexbobPYEAH GUYS
19:16:02alexbobPwhy did you have to put a false positive into rockbox! just to confuse your users?
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19:18:55pixelmasaratoga: the tone in your posts doesn't help the issue at all
19:19:48Torneperhaps not but the content is 100% accurate
19:19:57TorneAV scanners are just bullshit.
19:20:29alexbobPI saw the forum thread on that issue, it's kind of ridiculous
19:20:57alexbobPI agree totally with saratoga
19:21:05AlexPIt doesn't help though
19:21:08LloreanSeriously, the category of "virus" it falls under isn't even a virus.
19:21:17LloreanIt's generic stupid malware that attempts to convince the user to do something.
19:21:20alexbobPAlexP: there's only so much you can tell somebody
19:21:24AlexPCalling people "noob" just isn't necessary
19:21:24LloreanIt would be trivial for him to have confirmed its presence, without risk.
19:21:33alexbobPif somebody wants to listen to a dumb heuristic-based AV tool over the devs
19:21:40pixelmamaybe, but if you just call it bullshit the discussion is just driven away into something actually offtopic and personal
19:21:42alexbobPthat means they don't trust the devs, so they shouldn't use the software anyways
19:21:45alexbobPAlexP: who called somebody a noob?
19:21:54AlexPsaratoga called the OP a noob
19:22:12rashersaratoga: I don't think you're being too smart in that thread, honestly
19:22:16alexbobPmaybe I'm on a different rhead or something, I don't see it
19:22:26alexbobP(not that I don't think OP was a noob)
19:22:28AlexPThe one in the forums...
19:22:36alexbobP right
19:22:37pixelmaand in my experience just lead to unnecessary and heated discussions
19:22:55LloreanalexbobP: maybe refresh, it could be newer than when you opened the page.
19:23:03AlexPalexbobP: Yes, in the (current) penultimate post
19:23:12*Llorean was probably a little inflammatory in his post too.
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19:23:53*evilnick_B disagrees
19:24:08evilnick_BBy that point in the thread it'd already descended into being quite personal
19:24:27AlexPYeah, and we should take the high ground
19:24:34alexbobPah, yes, it's the next post after the last one that was loaded ^^
19:24:40alexbobPthis is a funny conversation to read, glad I'm not a part of it ;)
19:24:55pixelmaI don't think it's funny
19:27:15alexbobPthis is a perfect example of why heuristic AV software is a bad idea
19:27:21alexbobPand it's not the first time I have seen it happen, far from it
19:27:29rasherWell known
19:27:37alexbobPAV software asks about random software all the time and it's up to the user to make an educated guess
19:27:42rasherWhich is also why it got the response it did
19:27:51alexbobPand when users go to the devs, they don't get any response other than "well that's a false positive"
19:28:29alexbobPand if you argue with the devs, then you *are* being a noob (unless you think the dev is lying maliciously), because everybody should know that AV software is just guessing, and the dev isn't.
19:28:53alexbobPmarthirial was pretty much being a hobag by pressing the issue after being told it was a false positive
19:29:11alexbobPhe was like "Well you guys need to do something about this so I can go to bed!" or something... but to totally the wrong parties
19:29:21alexbobPI'd probably have reacted like saratoga
19:29:40pixelmastill sticking to facts makes much more sense than calling people names or whatever :\
19:30:19alexbobPstrictly speaking, calling that guy a noob and "sticking to the facts" are not controdictory...
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19:30:47alexbobPfor one, he broke his url somehow and then claimed the download was pulled... lulz
19:31:11LloreanalexbobP: Yeah, but the thing is, people are emotional. You can call them names, and even if they are true, they won't care that it's factual.
19:31:37LloreanNot to mention recent studies suggest that if people are emotionally invested in something, showing them facts (even if the facts aren't "you're a noob" but actual evidence) just causes them to dig in more, in the majority of cases.
19:32:08LloreanThe best thing to do in a situation like this is to calmly and clearly explain what happened ("This is a false positive. There's nothing to worry about, and hopefully the virus scanners will have it cleared up in a few updates, as is often the case") and then walk away.
19:32:35alexbobPLlorean: sounds like saratoga's first post
19:32:44pixelmanot at all
19:32:53alexbobPafter which OP came back to whine and say stupid stuff
19:32:59alexbobP"Calling an antivirus crappy for doing its job as solution to a somewhat serious issue only diminishes even more the confidence that this website or the software is not compromised, as it shows an attitude of inflexibility."
19:33:16alexbobPYes indeed. Calling an antivirus crappy for doing it's job would be silly. GOOD THING IT WASN'T DOING IT'S JOB
19:33:30AlexPYou are missing the point
19:33:51AlexP1) We shouldn't be insulting users, we should be bigger than that 2) See what Llorean said
19:38:44alexbobPwell I can see where you're coming from
19:38:57alexbobPbut I kind of think that user is just trying to raise a ruckus
19:39:49LloreanThe proper response should've just been "False positives are pretty common in anti-virus software. Given that the source code for this program is available and anyone can verify it as they wish, that's likely all there is to it. Feel free to report this to the AV manufacturers that have falsely reported this file."
19:39:53AlexPSo we should rise above, not stoop to the same level
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19:59:27saratoga_IMO pointing out that someone is being foolish is not a bad idea when they are being foolish
19:59:33saratoga_i'm sorry if that hurt his feelings
20:00:19saratoga_but I think its a fair point, since I was quite polite initially, and only hurt his feelings after he was already angry unnecesarily
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20:01:22LloreanI think the problem is that he felt you weren't taking it seriously. I mean, there's nothing to take seriously about the report, but calling the software "crappy" makes it sound like you're blowing him off, rather than seriously telling him there's nothing to be concerned about.
20:01:34pixelmasaratoga_: I think it wouldn't have gone this overboards if you wouldn't have called the AV "crappy"
20:01:40LloreanThe problem with panicky people is that they don't react well to "it's nothing" and want reassured.
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20:01:51pixelmawhat Llorean says
20:01:57Llorean"You're panicking over nothing" is construed as an insult way too often.
20:02:02alexbobPpixelma: seriously though, if someone is going to get offended because someone trash-talks a piece of software they use
20:02:08alexbobPthat person should probably steer well clear of any webforums.
20:02:14saratoga_I honestly didn't realize he was going to explode if I pointed out that he shouldn't ignore some software thats probably trying to scam him out of a few bucks
20:02:22saratoga_"probably should ignore"
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20:02:39saratoga_i mean AV software seems like a really thing to become emotionally invested in
20:03:01saratoga_i could have foreseen that reaction if I made fun of his mother, not his antivirus
20:03:17pixelmaalexbobP: maybe, but the responses can also steer away other people and give false impression of the whole prject and is completely unnecessary
20:03:27pixelmaproject too
20:03:44alexbobPsaratoga_: maybe his mother said that the rockbox utility seemed suspicious
20:04:01alexbobPsaratoga_: and he was just naming AV utilities because he's embarassed about taking software advice from mis mam
20:04:06rashersaratoga_: even when he did escalate it, you shouldn't be continuing down that route
20:04:25saratoga_yeah we probably should have just closed the thread when he got upset
20:04:34alexbobPpixelma: I would consider it no great loss if that one dude doesn't install rockbox, he doesn't seem like he'd be able to work it anyways
20:04:37alexbobPpixelma: probably better off with OF
20:04:42 Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.)
20:04:53LloreanSadly, if we'd closed it the Reddit report would just say "Rockbox ignoring virus, preventing people from asking about it"
20:05:51saratoga_yeah, plus theres a chance that once his ego recovers the guy will realize he shouldn't trust every random thing some vendor tells him, so its probably not a total loss
20:06:26alexbobPI would say that saratoga_ should say "Well that's a false postive from badly coded heuristics", and then if the noob presses the issue, call him a noob
20:06:34alexbobPbut that's what happened and people are upset, so I must be wrong :/
20:06:44*alexbobP has bad people skills
20:06:50rasherDo not do that, because it reflects badly on "the project"
20:06:54rasherWhether you find it fair or not
20:07:41saratoga_personally i've never understood why being nice to foolish people is considered an end in itself, IMO the goal is to educate people, so if someone has a really thick skull sometimes the best thing you can do is bash in some commonsense in with a hammer
20:07:42LloreanHonestly though, given that the guy ran straight to reddit with it, I almost think he was just trying to troll or get attention at this point.
20:08:14rashersaratoga_: because if you're rude to foolish people, people will assume that you are just rude period. That may be totally unfair, but it's what happens
20:08:21LloreanI mean it was 3 out of 43 virus scanners that picked up something. One of them just identified "suspicious activity" and the other 2 identified it as something that, according to googling, would be safe to just run the program for and see if it asked you to SMS someone.
20:08:23saratoga_better to hurt someone's feeling and get your point across, then be polite and leave them ignorant
20:08:32rashersaratoga_: false dichotomy
20:08:39pixelmasaratoga_: if he really is "thick" that won't help him understand just arises discussions about attitude
20:09:13CIA-81New commit by Buschel (r28190): Submit FS #11646. Reduce voltage supply for iPod nano 2G LCD. Significantly reduces buzzing sound of LDS176 type displays.
20:09:16pixelmayou won't get your point across
20:11:23alexbobPIf it even takes AV software to warn you that a program might ask you to SMS somebody
20:11:32alexbobPI can't even think of how to finish that sentence
20:11:43alexbobPseriously... why would AV software do that?
20:11:51alexbobP"Warning: this program might ask you a sketchy question."
20:11:58alexbobPJust let it ask the sketchy question, or not!
20:12:53rasheralexbobP: this is off topic
20:13:09alexbobPokay, sorry
20:13:16CIA-81r28190 build result: All green
20:16:15alexbobPwell here's something not offtopic: is there a guide for compiling rockbox?
20:17:20alexbobPoh hey
20:17:28alexbobPgoogling "compiling rockbox" finds a nice wiki page, thanks bertrik
20:18:11*Llorean likes how the "SimpleGuideToCompiling" wiki page was never as simple as the original how to compile page he first found.'
20:18:49saratoga_I went through and removed most of the emoticons at least
20:18:56alexbobPLlorean: is there another one that's better?
20:18:57saratoga_the original version had more smiles then words IIRC
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20:20:08 Nick alexbobP is now known as CDXX (
20:20:44Lloreansaratoga_: The one I originally used was basically "download this tarball of gcc, compile it, add this to path, do this line to checkout svn, make a folder, run configure, run make, run make zip"
20:20:59LloreanIt was very short and to the point.
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20:50:08crowwhen compiling for ipod nano2g what should be cheked as build sys?
20:51:32CDXXIs there any build of rockbox available as a userland app on PCs?
20:51:46CDXXwe just got a mac mini server at work, which apparently has a speaker built in for some unknown reason
20:52:01CDXXso I thought it would be kind of lulzy if it sat around playing music, like a one foot by one foot by two inch ipod
20:53:58evilnick_BCDXX: The sim?
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20:56:19CDXXevilnick_B: is there a sim? didn't know. that sounds perfect.
20:56:45CDXXrockbox is so good, if it can integrate well, I might just replace my desktop's media player software with it
21:00:43 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
21:01:39evilnick_BCDXX: Try here:">
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21:02:09rasherCDXX: it doesn't integrate at all though. Quite the opposite
21:02:14rasher(by design)
21:02:42CDXXI was hoping for something more of a port, for running rockbox on linux
21:02:53CDXXideally it would the browse my actual filesystem instead of having a virtual disk thing
21:03:09krazykitwell, you can symlink your music directory to the virtual disk directory
21:03:47CDXXah, so it uses a dirtree and not a disk image file?
21:03:51CDXXthat shouldn't be too bad to use then
21:04:03CDXXdunno what kind of integration I'd need other than it finding my music
21:05:10AlexPIt simulates a dap
21:05:22AlexPIt really isn't designed as a music app
21:10:15pixelmawhich sims can you run on a Mac - the same as compiled for Linux?
21:10:41kugelCDXX: yes there is
21:11:06kugelthere's the sdl port which runs as a music player app
21:11:26CDXXoh! awesome!
21:12:28kugelI don't know if it works on mac; it should but it's untested
21:13:03kugelit's a lot like the simulators but it doesn't simulate a dap as it wants to be an actual application
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21:28:56wodzAlexP: ping
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