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#rockbox log for 2010-11-06

00:00:02S_a_i_n_tthe button table is just, wrong. And yes, I think there sould be some form of note there also, explaining that it should only be used to exit the Apple FW, or when instructed to do so.
00:00:22pixelmait's not wrong or shouldn't be
00:01:09pixelma"/" is used everywhere as an "or"
00:02:31 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (~stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
00:02:45 Quit anewuser (Quit: ZX SPECTRUM COMPO
00:03:02pixelmait could be worded differently there but it's not wrong, in its current form it can be easily misunderstood
00:03:43 Join Llorean [0] (~DarkkOne@rockbox/user/Llorean)
00:03:57S_a_i_n_tI'm not 100% as to what it *should* say, but "Menu/Select = Start Rockbox" is definitely not correct.
00:04:30pixelmacan you not turn the player on by either pressing Menu or Select
00:04:37S_a_i_n_tif it is used as "or", it should say "or" I'm sure people are reading it as Menu+Select
00:05:04Strife89I dd just that when I first had my Color.
00:05:09Tornewe shouldn't suggest that it's menu or select to turn it on into rockbox, either
00:05:18Tornesince menu is the dualboot key on the other ipods at least
00:05:19S_a_i_n_tand that key combo should be avoided unless absolutely necessary
00:05:27LloreanWho reads "menu/select" as "menu + select"?
00:05:31Tornebetter to tell users to just press select
00:05:32LloreanSlash is never used as "and"
00:05:58pixelmait's "+" everywhere else in the manual for combos
00:06:37Strife89I'm pretty sure it wasn't a slash before.
00:06:45pixelmait's one of the first button tables though and could possibly misunderstood and in this case it's quite important
00:06:55LloreanIt should just say that 'starting your player normally will result in it booting into Rockbox unless you (do dual boot thing)" for every player, shouldn't it? Rather than trying to name specific keys?
00:07:05TheSevenpixelma: you can turn the player on by pressing *any* button, so specifying one is misleading
00:07:11 Quit xxcv ()
00:07:18Tornereally? that's not true on the PP ipods
00:07:25Strife89TheSeven: Not all iPods.
00:07:29LloreanYeah, the PP iPods only boot on certain keys.
00:07:30pixelmaTheSeven: is this different to other Ipods?
00:07:32TornePP ipods only respond to menu/select
00:07:36S_a_i_n_tthe ammount of people that trashed their iPods using this combo that came into #freemyipod in the past weeks was quite disturbing.
00:07:40Torneand holding menu makes the bootloader dualboot
00:07:46S_a_i_n_tthey're getting the idea it's ok from somewhere
00:08:01S_a_i_n_tin which case I think the manual should be as explicit as possible
00:08:20LloreanIt's probably not the manual that's leading them too, though. Have you asked them where they were told to?
00:08:21pixelmayes, I don't deny that
00:08:34LloreanI mean even fixing the manual won't help if someone out there is giving bad directions.
00:09:02Tornethis isn't a new thing, either; people've been doing this for as long as i've been around at least ;)
00:09:06pixelmaI just say it's currently not "wrong", it could be better
00:09:08soap<Llorean> Who reads "menu/select" as "menu + select"? I'd not so quickly assume "/" = "or"
00:09:09Torne"i rebooted and the database still doesn't work"
00:09:37Lloreansoap: But it surprises me that *anyone* would read a / as "and" though.
00:09:54TheSeven"menu or select" doesn't make sense to a regular apple firmware user, while "menu and select" does
00:09:59pixelmaI find this discussion a bit pointless though
00:10:01TheSevenso it will easily be misinterpreted
00:10:15soapI see that is no harder to believe than "or". It's quite non-explicit leaving the door open for interpretation
00:10:24pixelmathe "interpretation of /" part I mean
00:10:34LloreanTheSeven: I just find it surprising that someone assumes we've misused / to mean "and" when it's never really used that way, anywhere, even outside the scope of Rockbox.
00:10:36 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Night.)
00:10:53TheSevenwhy is there a table in the first place?
00:11:06LloreanWhy do we name keys in the first place for turning on a player?
00:11:07pixelmawhy shouldn't there be one?
00:11:12TheSeventhis could also be read as "use menu/select to boot from rockbox into the ofw"
00:11:13LloreanAren't the keys defined by the OF anyway, and outside our scope?
00:11:27soapthis isn't really about "/", this is about the implicit "or". When an iPod user sees "menu" and the word "select" in context their frame of reference will be "and".
00:11:32 Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection)
00:12:00soapAvoiding the implicit and replacing with the explicit seems painless.
00:12:16CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28502): Android: Show the Rockbox in the background in the keyboard/yesno dialogs.
00:12:19CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28503): Fix a small dependency issue, the directories need to be created first.
00:12:27Lloreansoap: I agree with that.
00:12:31LloreanI'm just surprised it's a problem, is all
00:12:33TheSeveni think a simple statement that rockbox will be booted by default, you should hold menu to boot the of, and you can shut down rockbox by holding play, would be better
00:12:49TheSeveneven though the "shut down by holding play" part is quite intuitive
00:13:18S_a_i_n_tpeople *still* ask how to turn Rb off though, so... ;)
00:13:35soapfor apple users. The point of this, in a way TheSeven, is to avoid those assumptions.
00:13:58soap(wow comma failure)
00:13:59CIA-7r28502 build result: All green
00:14:42pixelmaI'm confused now what to put there instead and don't see why a table is so bad?
00:15:00S_a_i_n_tI wish I new exactly what it was, that is giving users the idea that menu+select == reboot...but unfortunately I don't. In which case I think it pays be be as clear as possible with the instruction.
00:15:42CIA-7r28503 build result: All green
00:15:45LloreanWell "menu+select" is hard reboot on most iPods
00:15:49S_a_i_n_tpixelma: I don't think the table is necessarily "bed" either, as long as the / is changed to or.
00:15:57LloreanWe need to make it clear to "shut down and then boot' rather than "reboot"
00:15:58soapS_a_i_n_t, we talking a reboot combo failure or a failure to understand the difference between reboot and "shutdown and restart". I thought I was with you...
00:16:30pixelmaLlorean: yes, but why would a text be better? It will be longer after all
00:16:57Lloreanpixelma: Dunno. Just seems odd, is all
00:17:01pixelmaI mean for the turning on/off part
00:17:49S_a_i_n_tsoap: I'm wondering what it is that makes people think that shutdown, and restart isn't what they are supposed to do when asked to reboot the player I guess.
00:17:59LloreanTable's fine, it just seems odd to me to name explicit buttons for things we have no real control of. It's kinda like describing how the OF works.
00:18:02S_a_i_n_tand why they're going for the menu+select combo instead
00:18:34soapS_a_i_n_t, while I agree "/" to "or" is painless, I rather think that's a wide-spread failure to understand the difference between a hard restart and a soft one.
00:18:59soapFor if _that_ is the problem you're trying to solve it is one as old as Rockbox on the ipods.
00:19:03TheSeven"menu or select" to power on is just plain wrong
00:19:12 Part toffe82
00:19:12TheSevenas you can use any button or turn off the hold switch
00:19:30pixelmaLlorean: aha, I can follow that, thanks. I wonder if this is something applicable to all players (manuals) or only Ipods
00:19:52pixelmaTheSeven: yes, ok. Noted for the Nano 2nd gen
00:19:59Lloreanpixelma: Probably all manuals. I mean, the table *works* certainly, I just think it might make more sense to make it clear you just "Power on the player normally and Rockbox will boot" or whatnot
00:20:24soapLlorean, I don't believe this is a matter of "control", but rather of "experience". Menu + Select is something a Rockbox user will experience, regardless of who controls it.
00:20:42pixelmaturning off may be different to the OF though
00:20:44Lloreansoap: I wasn't talking about Menu+Select though
00:20:49Lloreanpixelma: Yes,it may
00:20:51soapexcuse me, then.
00:20:55soapmy bad
00:21:02Lloreansoap: I was just talking about the description for booting (in relation to any player, really, not just iPods)
00:21:20LloreanInstead of having a power on button in a table somewhere, just mention that Rockbox will be the default and will start automatically when the player is turned on.
00:22:13S_a_i_n_tsoap makes a good point, about the difference between hard reboot and soft reboot...and I'm wondering what can be done to properly educate users of this difference.
00:22:37S_a_i_n_thard reboot should be avoided unless absolutely necessary
00:22:50LloreanHard reboot should be avoided unless the player is locked up, basically
00:23:10soaponly speak explicitly when giving support. ;) Search the forum for "Soap menu select" and you'll see plenty of hand-holding on that subject.
00:23:14S_a_i_n_tit's like pulling the jug cord out the back of your PC
00:23:33LloreanOr pressing the "reset" button if yours has one.
00:23:43TheSevenquote the last two lines in the manual :)
00:25:04S_a_i_n_t"don't do it, it's bad...and wrong. every time you reboot using menu+select a kitten dies."
00:31:29CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28504): A bit of indentation/whitespace changes in the xml files.
00:32:32 Join anewuser [0] (anewuser@unaffiliated/anewuser)
00:33:13CIA-7r28504 build result: All green
00:34:59kugelmcuelenaere: NewStringUTF doesn't need release right, but we should unref the object still
00:36:19kugelto let the GC delete it
00:36:58mcuelenaerekugel: they aren't referenced by any Java code, are they? So there aren't any references to it?
00:37:20kugeleach yesno dialog creates a new object, but objects created in jni aren't GC'd until you return from the original entry point
00:37:43kugellocal reference means it's local to the native layer
00:37:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:37:58kugelthe VM doesn't know when the native layer doesn't need the object anymore
00:38:08mcuelenaereah, so we need to DeleteLocalRef()?
00:38:41mcuelenaere"Your strings created with NewStringUTF() will be garbage collected
00:38:42mcuelenaerewhen you return from the native method (earlier if you use
00:38:42mcuelenaerePopLocalFrame() or DeleteLocalRef(), but in most cases returning from
00:38:42DBUGEnqueued KICK mcuelenaere
00:38:42mcuelenaerethe method is sufficient)."
00:38:49kugelotherwise it would only be GC'd if main() returned to java
00:38:51mcuelenaerewoops, multiline wasn't intended
00:39:01mcuelenaereoh ok
00:39:41kugel"return from the native method" means the method that brought you into jni (so main()), not the current function
00:39:56CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28505): Android port: ...
00:39:58CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28506): Android port: replace waiting hack in AndroidActivity with a ResultReceiver, added bonus is unzip progress feedback
00:39:59kugelwe currently never return from main
00:40:01CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28507): Android: add uninstall option to script
00:40:09CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28508): Android: prevent loading the library twice
00:40:21CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28509): Android: clean up extracting a bit + add user-visible error-reporting ...
00:40:43kugelI liked the spinner
00:41:07mcuelenaerewe could always return to the old behaviour
00:41:24kugeldoes the progress bar actually match the unzip progress?
00:41:30mcuelenaereit should, yes
00:41:55CIA-7r28505 build result: All green
00:43:36CIA-7r28509 build result: All green
00:43:42CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
00:43:42*mcuelenaere spots a bug
00:43:43kugelr28505 seems nice
00:44:12kugelthe suspend was mainly for cpu time saving, so that we deactivate lcd updates
00:45:45mcuelenaerewell it should still suspend now
00:45:53mcuelenaereI mean, the LCD
00:46:08kugelmcuelenaere: I don't quite understand r28508, there can only be one service at a time so it shouldn't be possible to load the lib twice?
00:46:36mcuelenaeretrue, but you can send multiple intents to that service
00:46:46mcuelenaereand the lib-loading is triggered by a sent intent
00:47:12kugelmaybe it would be better to just load it in a static { } block?
00:48:14mcuelenaereand what about the extraction? That needs to be done prior to the loading
00:48:40mcuelenaereI think that would block everything, including the display of the progressdialog (i.e. no user feedback would be shown)
00:48:42kugelah yes
00:49:16kugelwell, it might or might not be needed before, I haven't tried
00:49:28kugelrockbox generally works without installation files
00:49:58kugelbut with your way we can avoid glitches more easily so it's ok
00:52:28CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28510): Android: don't display the loading screen etc. when the library is already loaded
00:54:00CIA-7r28510 build result: All green
00:54:56 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
00:55:23CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28511): Android: prevent NullPointerException in RockboxService
00:56:54CIA-7r28511 build result: All green
00:57:30mcuelenaerehmm just had this:
01:10:05mcuelenaerehmm, pcm_play_get_more_callback() is called in Java_org_rockbox_RockboxPCM_pcmSamplesToByteArray() which could result in a sleep() call in apps/pcmbuf.c:commit_chunk() so theoretically a Java call could be done with a different cached env pointer in the wrong Java thread
01:10:46mcuelenaerewith a different env pointer than the one given to Java_org_rockbox_RockboxPCM_pcmSamplesToByteArray()*
01:12:26mcuelenaerea quick hack is to set env_ptr to current env and restore it afterwards
01:14:46kugelmcuelenaere: what?
01:15:05kugelthe callback uses the env_ptr that's passed to it, not the cached one
01:15:08 Quit Llorean (Quit: Leaving.)
01:15:21mcuelenaerekugel: what callback?
01:16:33mcuelenaereyes, but that can call pcm_play_get_more_callback() which can lead to apps/pcmbuf.c:pcmbuf_pcm_callback() which can lead to a sleep() call
01:17:41mcuelenaerecan lead to e.g. pcm_play_dma_stop() which calls a java method with a different env pointer
01:17:58mcuelenaerein the original Java thread that called Java_org_rockbox_RockboxPCM_pcmSamplesToByteArray()
01:18:21kugelthe stop is always called from a different java thread
01:18:28kugelis that a problem?
01:18:34mcuelenaereok, but there are others than stop
01:19:32kugelsleep() is not a problem btw, that only affects the rockbox threads, not the java ones
01:20:31*mcuelenaere writes up an example
01:20:55kugelgood idea, I think I don't understand the issue :)
01:23:10kugelDeleteLocalRef() in yesno causes a freeze
01:26:11mcuelenaereactually the 7 and 10 is the other way around, but that's just for illustration
01:26:37kugelI didn't think that's a problem, I also never saw that warning before
01:26:51mcuelenaereit's hard to trigger
01:27:09mcuelenaereI could trigger it before, on an emulator on an underpowered PC
01:27:24kugelso perhaps the pcm driver should use the env_ptr that comes from pcmSamplesToByteArray() once it's available?
01:28:28mcuelenaerethis is my hack:
01:28:53kugelpcm_play_get_more_callback() usually runs from dma, it shouldn't allow a sleep IIUC
01:29:06kugel(i.e. interrupt context)
01:29:17mcuelenaerehmm perhaps I missed something, but how else could it trigger that JNI warning?
01:30:11kugelchanging volume, changing playback state? these are calls with a different env_ptr (but also from a differnet java thread)
01:30:20 Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
01:30:38kugelmcuelenaere: I think i know what it could be
01:31:02 Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:31:06kugelhm or maybe not
01:31:27kugelso the problem is that there's a call with a different env_ptr from the same java thread?
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01:32:44kugeli.e. something is calling java code from within the java-audio thread but with the env_ptr of the java-main thread?
01:32:50 Join bmbl [0] (~bmbl@unaffiliated/bmbl)
01:32:54mcuelenaereyes, AFAIU
01:32:54kugelthat shouldn't be possible
01:36:22 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message)
01:38:27 Quit bmbl (Quit: Verlassend)
01:40:13 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
01:42:58 Quit rds (Quit: Leaving)
01:47:41kugelhm, now it doesn't freeze anymore :\
01:48:57mcuelenaereDeleteLocalRef()? That never freezed for me..
01:49:25kugelmaybe it was something else
01:53:28 Quit Staphylo (Quit: Bye les gens =))
01:53:32kugelcan I create a global ref with another env_ptr as the one I'm using to delete the ref again?
01:53:34 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
01:54:33mcuelenaereI guess you can, unless logcat yields a JNI WARNING?
01:55:07kugelno warning
02:01:04CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28512): Android: Use wakeup objects instead of polling for the dialog results in the keyboard and yesno dialog, allowing a lot of code to be removed. ...
02:02:53CIA-7r28512 build result: All green
02:05:11 Join InsDel [0] (
02:07:27 Join Sarcastic_Dude [0] (
02:07:38mcuelenaerehmm that's going to clash with my local changes :)
02:13:31Sarcastic_DudeHi, people of Rockbox...just wondered if anyone had any suggestions on why Rockbox 3.7 on my fuze v1 only recognizes my SD card after connecting/disconnecting it from USB
02:13:33Sarcastic_Dudeit was perfect in 3.6...I'll take any suggestions
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02:15:35 Quit webguest94 (Client Quit)
02:16:01mcuelenaerekugel: shouldn't you also DeleteLocalRef() jstring str = e->NewStringUTF(env_ptr, text); in kbd_input()?
02:16:17kugelmcuelenaere: yes, I just spottet that
02:16:23kugelI'll do so in my next commit
02:18:12kugelmcuelenaere: can you delay the progressbar by half a second or so? it doesn't need to show if there's nothing to unzip
02:18:34CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28513): Android: greatly simplify Android YesNo and KeyboardInput widgets
02:20:11CIA-7r28513 build result: All green
02:20:35mcuelenaerekugel: I could only display it when the RockboxService starts sending me progress values
02:26:22mcuelenaerekugel: again the "JNI WARNING: threadid=10 using env from threadid=7"
02:27:02CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28514): Android: only display progress dialog when extraction happens
02:27:51 Join Judas_PhD [0] (
02:28:29CIA-7r28514 build result: All green
02:34:46 Join TheBarron2 [0] (
02:35:57TheBarron2whoa.. Bagder?
02:36:05mcuelenaerehah, one can't get out of the buffering screen on android?
02:38:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:38:23TheBarron2so.. can you use one of the config files to make the menu navigation make a little more sense? A lot of nonsense in there the wife doesn't need to see, besides the fact that it's nonsense that navigating from playlist to now playing is a job..
02:39:13 Quit TheBarron2 (Client Quit)
02:39:21soapTheBarron2, A: You can not change the menu structure with a .cfg file. B: Press the "play" button to return to the WPS (now playing) on most players.
02:39:50 Join TheBarron2 [0] (
02:40:26CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28515): Android: Use our translations for the yes/no/ok/cancel buttons in the yesno and keyboard dialog. ...
02:40:31TheBarron2anyway.. what do you edit/use to edit menus?
02:41:23soapTheBarron2, the menus are hard-coded in the C source. You would need to edit that.
02:41:25TheBarron2Holy crap that IS bagder
02:41:32TheBarron2soap: ok
02:41:45soapDoes he owe you money?
02:42:07CIA-7r28515 build result: All green
02:42:57TheBarron2'know' him from way back in efnet #amiga days
02:43:56TheBarron2ok.. so in the NoDo list it says this:
02:43:58TheBarron2An Advanced Settings setting to hide Advanced Settings If people really want to have a simple menu, this should be implemented using a configurable menu.
02:44:07mcuelenaerekugel: shouldn't those DeleteGlobalRef()'s be DeleteLocalRef()?
02:44:22TheBarron2we don't HAVE a configurable menu, then, is what you're saying? :)
02:44:40kugelyes, thank you
02:44:48TheBarron2Because rockbox is pretty awesome, but the menus and navigation is surprisingly lame
02:45:05saratogaif you want to change the menus, edit the code yourself
02:45:24CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28516): Those DeleteGlobalRef() should be DeleteLocalRef().
02:45:47kugelmcuelenaere: that was a nice commit fest :>
02:46:16TheBarron2saratoga: ok.. I just misunderstood what was being said in that NoDo item :)
02:46:31mcuelenaereQ: should we do translations on the Java side using Rockbox'es language system or Android's?
02:46:57CIA-7r28516 build result: All green
02:47:18kugelas long as we have 99.9% native code we should stick to our system IMO
02:49:29TheBarron2tell bagder I said hi! :)
02:49:32 Quit TheBarron2 (Quit: CGI:IRC)
02:50:48 Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.)
02:51:49 Join TheBarron2 [0] (
02:51:58TheBarron2one more question, in case I'm just missing it..
02:52:20TheBarron2is there a way to get directly back and forth from the 'now playing' screen and the playlist?
02:52:23 Join CaptainKewl [0] (
02:52:54 Quit Sarcastic_Dude (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:54:29soapwhich device, TheBarron2?
02:55:14TheBarron2oh sorry
02:55:18TheBarron2ipod video
02:55:22TheBarron2rockbox 3.7
02:56:06S_a_i_n_tpressing play should jump to the WPS iiuc
02:56:12soapLong press of select from the WPS (while playing screen) will bring up the WPS context menu, of which playlist functions are the top.
02:56:30soapand, yes, play should (almost) always take you back to the WPS.
02:56:34pixelmado the Ipods have the hotkey function?
02:57:03pixelmafrom the WPS? Iif so "View current playlist" is default
02:57:29soapdouble correct. Forgot about that pathway, as I never use two fingers.
02:58:16S_a_i_n_tI was going to suggest it but I couldn;t remember if I added playlistviewer to the hotkey in my tree or if it was there already.
02:59:03S_a_i_n_tJust a wee sidenote, I know a couple of very young children that have no problems navigating the RB menus.
02:59:24S_a_i_n_tit's a learning curve compared to the OFW, but it's really not *that* difficult.
03:00:10soapStill want that Nano 1G, S_a_i_n_t ?
03:00:16*TheBarron2 reads back
03:01:18 Quit cjcopi (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
03:01:33TheBarron2It's not that it's not navigable, it's that there's a number of unnecessary steps for was should be default things :)
03:01:39TheBarron2and wives are pickier than kids :)
03:02:09TheBarron2ok.. so let me try the above suggestions. select button seems to be iffy sometimes..
03:02:20S_a_i_n_tTheBarron2: Additionally, you can create a "fixed.cfg" that will always load those values on if your wife ever fucks something up then all that is needed is to power cycle the player to get back to a known good state.
03:02:57CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28517): Android: make depend on android/res dir
03:03:00CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28518): Android: replace hardcoded strings with Android strings, allowing translations
03:03:16TheBarron2haven't looked at hotkey functionality, and I'm gonna try some of the things you said should be default. In a bit. Thank you
03:03:19soapTheBarron2, comprehensive solutions for menu reorganization are always appreciated, though I strongly suspect one would have a hard time objectively defending a significant change considering all the factors involved.
03:04:22 Join cjcopi [0] (
03:04:23soapNot that a "better" solution doesn't exist, but one which is defenseable against the onslaught of attack vectors would be hard to find.
03:04:39S_a_i_n_toh yes, indeed ;)
03:04:42CIA-7r28517 build result: All green
03:06:35CIA-7r28518 build result: All green
03:07:05*mcuelenaere goes to bed
03:07:25 Quit mcuelenaere (Quit: Gnight!)
03:09:06 Quit froggyman (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:14:55TheBarron2ok.. long press in wps does indeed go to context menu with top option being playlists/view current, so that's pretty good. However, a select in the playlist does *not* jump to wps. Simply starts the selected song, leaving you in the playlist..
03:15:17TheBarron2And I'm too lazy to offer comprehensive solutions :)
03:17:30TheBarron2take that back, doesn't start the song, just switches to it.. if you're paused you stay paused. If you're playing, it plays. That's all alright
03:17:38S_a_i_n_twhen you're in the "view plalist" menu, pressing |<< will take you back to WPS
03:17:48TheBarron2But there should be a one push way back to the WPS
03:17:49TheBarron2let me try that
03:18:26TheBarron2well ok then. non intuitive and a bit inconsistent, but it works!
03:18:34 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message)
03:18:58TheBarron2so long-select in WPS and a couple more clicks on default selections gets you to playlist, a |<< in the playlist gets you to WPS. cool
03:19:07S_a_i_n_tif you want to make a better keymap, go for it.
03:19:12TheBarron2Thanks for the help.
03:19:18S_a_i_n_tNo worries
03:19:22TheBarron2yeah.. I'd probably do that if I weren't so freaking lazy
03:19:50TheBarron2would keymap be an in-the-code thing?
03:24:34S_a_i_n_tif you set up hotkey (you'll probably just need to turn the setting on, as I'm not sure if it's on by default or not) you can use the key combination of play+select to get to the "view current playlist" screen, and when you're in the view playlist screen you just need to press |<< to back out of it.
03:24:44S_a_i_n_thotkey really is your friend.
03:25:20TheBarron2ok, so on a different subject, I saw your android port, even tried it briefly. When I saw you had done one, it seemed natural and cool. But upon reflection and trying it out, I can't help but wonder... What's the point? (not so much a criticism as a question of curiousity)
03:25:50TheBarron2Saint: ah, that's a good suggestion, thank you!
03:26:37 Quit saratoga (Quit: Page closed)
03:26:53TheBarron2oh.. and a COMPLETELY unrelated question.. with Bagder here.. are you running a Dancer bot? :)
03:26:55S_a_i_n_tSettings - General Settings - Hotkey - WPS/FIle Browser Hotkey
03:40:15TheBarron2Thanks for all the help. I'm sure I'll be back, as I'm an idiot..
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04:28:48kerradephis there an option to play all on the sansa fuze V2? I can't seem to find it anywhere
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04:31:56kerradephnevermind, I think I found it
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12:33:51JdGordonkugel: the c code still inits the framebuffer class right? lots of commits last night i havnt looked at ye
12:34:16kugelyes, and it should stay that way
12:34:39kugelbut it doesn't mean the java couldn't tell the C about the screen dimensions
12:35:29JdGordonThe only reason I can see why c should init it is to get the bitmap buffer, although I *really* fail to see why java cant do that
12:35:47JdGordonlcd_init() in the c should really just call in to setup the update functions and get a pointer to that buffer
12:36:33JdGordonhowever, if we can get the screen size from the View then I don't care all that much about the init
12:36:48JdGordonit might cause problems later on when we want to add widgets though
12:37:39JdGordongetting the correct size, Ideally the widget should be any size the user wants
12:37:49JdGordon2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 2x4, etc
12:37:55JdGordonI said *might*
12:38:03kugelhome screen widget you mean?
12:38:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:38:28kugeli think that's independent of the framebuffer, but I haven't looked into it
12:38:48JdGordonwell that widget wouold almost certainly have to be done as a "remote" display
12:38:58kugelwhy that?
12:39:40kugelwe can design that however we like, with some play/pause/prev/next buttons on it. it shouldn't display the rockbox ui
12:39:57JdGordontwo different questions here then
12:43:02JdGordoni can see a need for both types of widgets
12:43:15JdGordonback in a while, dinner
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13:27:11rasherWhy would you want the rockbox ui on the widget?
13:27:36*rasher would expect a widget to be its own thing
13:29:03JdGordonwhy wouldn't you?
13:30:37rasherBecause I'd expect a widget to *control* rockbox, not be it
13:31:07rasherI guess maybe at 4x4
13:31:22rasherBut anything less I'd just want some buttons to control it
13:31:54JdGordonassuming the touches could be acepted from the widget you could control it
13:32:42JdGordoni dont actually think that assumption is correct, but i see no reason why being able to put the wps on a widget wouldnt be useful
13:33:01JdGordona different widget to play with the playback would also be good
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13:33:23rasherI'd not want a full Rockbox ui. Just next/stop/prev and song display in a simple package
13:33:38rasherBasically I'd just want the stock widget to control Rockbox instead
13:33:40JdGordonso you wouldnt add the ui widget
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13:54:00JdGordon434 mallocs in the 324x480 sdl sim loading cabbie.. not very good :p
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14:15:16n1ssoap: i think you can unsticky now
14:16:38JdGordonis completly broken? am I getting a sizeof() which i'm not expecting?
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14:19:14n1sew, flexible array member
14:20:16soapn1s, It's not sticky anymore, is it?
14:20:41soap(but thanks for the reminder anyway)
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14:20:45n1ssoap: no it isn't, did you unsticky or am i blind?
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14:21:07soapI did not unsticky, I'm guessing someone saw your message to me and did it in the last 4 minutes.
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14:22:11n1sJdGordon: sizeof should return the size of the struct omitting the flexible array
14:22:24JdGordonn1s: yeah, it isnt entirely clean but its not terrible either
14:22:25JdGordonit aint working though :(
14:22:31JdGordonmalloc is throwing an exception on the second call? does that mean I probably overran the first mallocs buffer?
14:22:40JdGordonrockbox: malloc.c:3096: sYSMALLOc: Assertion `(old_top == (((mbinptr) (((char *) &((av)->bins[((1) - 1) * 2])) - __builtin_offsetof (struct malloc_chunk, fd)))) && old_size == 0) || ((unsigned long) (old_size) >= (unsigned long)((((__builtin_offsetof (struct malloc_chunk, fd_nextsize))+((2 * (sizeof(size_t))) - 1)) & ~((2 * (sizeof(size_t))) - 1))) && ((old_top)->size & 0x1) && ((unsigned long)old_end & pagemask) == 0)' failed.
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14:24:43n1swell why don't you just make the array MALLOC_BLOCK_SIZE and alloc the size of the struct?
14:25:24JdGordonyeah I could of course do that
14:27:00n1salso is obj->start supposed to point to the end of the array?
14:27:48JdGordonyeah, I really shouldnt make this more complicated than it really needs to be
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14:28:26JdGordonbadly names, it points to the start of the free space
14:28:49JdGordonhow this works is we malloc a big chunk and then use it as requested (lost of little allocs <200 bytes)
14:29:08JdGordonbut then we will get the images which are BIG chunks which will need their own blocks
14:29:32JdGordonall this is because I assume 400+ tiny malloc()s are really stupidly wasteful
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14:40:13CIA-7New commit by teru (r28519): FS #11546: Adjustable brightness in lamp plugin
14:41:57S_a_i_n_tteru: going to add the extra colours now too...? ;)
14:42:11CIA-7r28519 build result: All green
14:42:14teruS_a_i_n_t: no.
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14:50:27JdGordon(gdb) p *obj
14:50:27JdGordon$1 = {header = {remaining = 0, start = 0x0, next = 0x0}, buf = 0x11dc8e0 ""}
14:50:27JdGordon(gdb) p obj
14:50:27DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
14:50:27JdGordon$2 = (struct malloc_object *) 0x11dc8e0
14:50:27JdGordonwhy isnt buf 0x11dc8e0+ 32 or so?
14:50:32JdGordondoes char buf[]; do something non obvious?
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14:52:44kugelJdGordon: when the 2 mallocs are merged then the amount halves and many of the mallocs won't be that tiny anymore. I wouldn't worry about it
14:53:10JdGordonnot true
14:53:17JdGordon99% are still under 200bytes
14:53:36JdGordon200 of then sucks just as much, plus we still need to make sure the alloced size is correct
14:53:40kugelI'd keep it simple, tiny mallocs are quite common and not a problem
14:54:08kugel200 bytes aren't tiny. 10 bytes are
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14:54:45kugelmaking sure the allocated size is right is easy
14:56:08kugelI have a patch which implements the buffer_{save,restore}_position, block allocations will make it harder to do that
14:57:08JdGordonwe don't want/need that for host alloc
14:58:06kugelactually I expect the system's malloc to handle tiny mallocs properly for us. we absolutely don't need to complicate our code
14:58:55kugelit's simple to implement do why not?
15:02:16kugelthe buffer_{save,restore}_position thing
15:03:34JdGordonwhat is it supposed to do if tthe buffer is malloced?
15:03:57kugelfree on restore
15:04:38kugelnot the whole thing, but everything that came after save_position
15:04:40JdGordonthe point being?
15:04:46JdGordonthe list gets freed on the new load anyway
15:04:57 Quit xxcv (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
15:05:25kugelreduce memory usage of course. otherwise these functions wouldn't exist
15:05:31lixus00any developers here ?
15:06:21JdGordonkugel: on a failed theme load the most likely thing to happen is app exit or reload a working theme, both will free the memory
15:07:03JdGordonand the mos likely place for it to fail is either before any images have loaded (so tiny ram usage anyway) or missing a image so also tiny mem usage
15:07:09JdGordonimplementing that is a waste of time
15:07:21S_a_i_n_tlixus00: Just ask your question, if someone can answer it they will.
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15:07:27kugeln1s: I looked at idle poweroff but our power management is too messy for me
15:07:50n1skugel: but does it make sense on android?
15:07:51kugelJdGordon: I already did it, and it took me 5 min
15:08:08JdGordonok fine, but its still pointless
15:08:25kugelFWIW I find your block allocated work a bigger waste of time
15:09:16kugeln1s: probably not. rockbox idling has no effect on battery life on my phone
15:09:30lixus00well its regarding the bootloader for gigabeat S ? is there any plan to support it any time soon in the rockbox utility installation
15:09:36n1sso we should probably drop that setting from app builds then
15:10:22kugelsure. if it doesn't work anyway
15:10:29JdGordoncan be done cleaner?
15:10:34JdGordonI'm not sure abut that char buf[0]
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15:18:37CIA-7New commit by jdgordon (r28520): Half the number of malloc() calls on APPLICATION builds in skin_buffer_alloc(). these are still presumably wasteing alot of RAM and could be merged ...
15:20:12CIA-7r28520 build result: All green
15:20:59CIA-7New commit by teru (r28521): rockboy: fix that description is cut off if it is near 20 bytes in load/save menu. ...
15:22:40CIA-7r28521 build result: All green
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15:24:27CIA-7New commit by wodz (r28522): move dbg_ports() from apps/menu_debug.c to target tree. FS #11712 by me.
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15:26:03CIA-7r28522 build result: 40 errors, 5 warnings (wodz committed)
15:27:31JdGordonthat is slightly nasty
15:28:05JdGordonneeds to use the raw buttons and lcd functions instead of action and multi screen api...
15:28:24JdGordonreally that screen should have been removed completly, it isnt really useful after a certain point
15:32:10wodzdon't we have some define which tells that target have remote?
15:35:54JdGordonnot sure if there is one for a non lcd remote
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15:49:56CIA-7New commit by wodz (r28523): fix yellow and red from r28522
15:51:42CIA-7r28523 build result: 0 errors, 2 warnings (wodz committed)
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16:04:35CIA-7New commit by wodz (r28524): fix yellow
16:06:12CIA-7r28524 build result: All green
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17:16:53monsterb<−−- Hello, another happy customer. :P
17:17:19pixelmawelcome :)
17:17:34monsterbe280v2 works perfect.
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18:32:54CIA-7New commit by mcuelenaere (r28525): Android: add a script which allows headless installation of the Android tools required for compilation
18:34:28CIA-7r28525 build result: All green
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18:39:40nathanpcHi all!
18:39:45nathanpcI'm back :)
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21:31:44dmehlerHello. I'm having issues with a Sandisk Sansa Clip v2. I would like to know if it's possible to reenable USB?
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21:33:08dmehlerThis is with Rockbox 3.7 release.
21:34:18pixelmayou need to boot into the original firmware for a USB connection, either by holding a button during boot (don't know which though) or by plugging USB from an off state
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21:36:23dmehlerPixelma, thank you. I have done this and can see the drive via USB before i ran the rb install it was in MSC mode, after it's in mtp mode, and although I can tell the files are still there when in rb I can not find them.
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21:38:07pixelmayou can't find them in Rockbox or on your PC?
21:38:32dmehlerPixelma, in rockbox.
21:38:51gevaertsThen why don't you set it back to msc?
21:39:31pixelmawhere the files in question transferred in MSC or MTP mode?
21:41:01dmehlergevaerts Thank you. I have tried that. In MTP mode, which is where the player was before I set it to MSC before the rb install I could see the files from the pc. After the rb install booting in the original firmware shows the files, but switching the player to either mtp or msc mode in neither case are the file visible to rb.
21:41:38gevaertsDoesn't the OF put files in this weird ##MUSIC directory using MTP?
21:41:42CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:41:42*gevaerts isn't sure
21:41:59pixelmaI think so
21:42:24dmehlerpixelma, the original files were transferred when the player was in mtp mode.
21:42:39pixelmawhat I don't know is whether the newer Sansa's MTP mode still stores them in a way the Rockbox database can't find them
21:42:59*dmehler does not know
21:44:13krazykit`i thought that the database COULD find them in ##MUSIC
21:44:19pixelmathey are either in the folder gevaerts mentioned, do you see such a directory on your player (in RB)?
21:45:07dmehlerpixelma, No I do not.
21:45:43pixelmakrazykit`: well I only know that on the PP Sansas the files transferred in MTP mode will not be found by Rockbox's database because they get a different file extension
21:46:09pixelmaand I don't have an AMS Sansa
21:46:24*gevaerts recommends just using MSC
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21:58:09dmehlerWhat I don't get is why it switched back to mtp mode after the rb install. And go figure, now in mtp mode the files are showing up under rb, last time I had rb going they did not. Does anyone see a problem with flipping the player back to msc, formatting it, reinstalling rb then loading files from backup? I don't like the fact that it keeps switching back and forth between modes.
22:00:09gevaertsInstalling the rockbox bootloader involves reinstalling the OF, which might reset settings for all I know
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22:07:41dmehlergevaerts That would explain what i'm seeing here.
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22:15:32dmehlerquestion, is it possible to reenable rb's clip v2 usb support from within rb
22:17:39gevaertsAlso, it's disabled because it doesn't work well. Why do you want to enable it in the first place?
22:19:35dmehlergevaerts I want to enable usb because where this player is going it's a lot easier to say plug the player in to the computer and copy the files than to try to explain original firmware.
22:21:23soapIs it easier to explain using the OF for USB or explain errors?
22:21:39gevaertsThen you'd have to explain things like it not connecting properly every time, or it suddenly stopping working for a few days until the battery is discharged
22:22:32gevaertsIf you think that's better than rebooting, you can compile your own build with USB enabled
22:23:04pixelmadmehler: the OF is able to use (and transfer them) with a usual filebrowser all the same (when set to MSC mode)
22:25:26dmehlerI'm going to have to think the route I want to go with this USB but in the meantime I'm not a programmer myself but i'd like to help out with this issue.
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22:37:06wodzAlexP, pixelma: May I ask to look at FS #11731? It's manual for MPIO (without plugins for now but with screenshots).
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22:51:47wodzhmm, another hd300 on ebay :-)
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23:42:27soapThe Sansa E2x0 v1 Reverse Bootloader "unsupported build" is now three years old. Has there been a change to the Sansa E2x0 v1 bootloader in the last three years which makes that unsupported build break?
23:42:56soapSorry for the poorly worded question. Are current Sansa E2x0 v1 builds incompatible with old bootloaders?
23:48:13krazykit`i have a new build and a fairly old (pre-usb) bootloader working together fine
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