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#rockbox log for 2010-11-14

00:02:23 Join Zagor_ [0] (
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00:05:28TheSevendamn undocumented socs
00:05:44TheSevenapparently the i2c clock is derived from pll0, no matter what the bus clocks are derived from
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00:42:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:54:30saratogaha the optimal load/store pattern for arm11 would involve unrolling the synth_full loop an addition 8x and then writing no less then 48 different filters, one for each possible packed sample alignment
00:54:46 Quit casainho (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:54:56saratogai think i will stick to writing the optimal arm9 version for now
00:55:21saratogawhich "just" requires 2x unrolling and 10 different filter blocks
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00:58:53 Quit Kitr88 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
01:01:17alexbobPAm I supposed to install rockbox on a clip+ *instead* of the latest OF?
01:01:29alexbobPI installed the latest OF, and then tried to install rockbox, and the mp3 player doesn't seem to be updating again
01:01:40 Quit JdGordon1 (Read error: No route to host)
01:01:48Tornethe bootloader contains whatever OF you used to make it
01:01:56alexbobPI know
01:02:06alexbobPwhat do I do with it? just leave it on the mp3 player?
01:02:13alexbobPbecause it's not installing the rockbox bootloader
01:02:44Torneright filename?
01:02:54alexbobPRockboxUtility generated the file
01:03:00alexbobPit had the same filename as the source file I used
01:03:14alexbobPI'm wondering if maybe I screwed it up when I upgraded the OF... will I have to wait until the next OF comes out? :(
01:03:59 Join Kitar|st [0] (
01:05:02Tornethe player should always flash the file when you put it there, it doesn't care what version
01:05:14Torneonly sandisk's updater program checks
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01:08:41alexbobPTorne: huh. The file is there, and it's not updating :(
01:08:51alexbobPI did all the other steps.. I have a .rockbox directory...
01:09:09alexbobPany idea what could cause this? the mp3 player is just booting OF like nothing's going on
01:09:32alexbobP(btw, Best Buy paid *me* $40 to take a clip + and give them a fuze +. That was a good deal for me)
01:11:14 Quit Zagor (Quit: Clint excited)
01:12:20gevaertsYou're sure you're using the right firmware?
01:12:37gevaertsclip, clipv2 and clip+ might be confusing sometimes
01:13:24*TheSeven is digging up quite a bunch of wrong assumptions about the s5l8701 tonight
01:13:42bertrikmaybe you can document them on the wiki
01:14:29alexbobPgevaerts: definitely a clip +. blue-yellow screen, and takes microsd cards.
01:14:36alexbobPgevaerts: oh, and the box says "sansa clip+" on it.
01:14:55gevaertsAnd you're definitely using clip+ firmware? Can you install other versions of the OF?
01:15:09bertrikWhat OF version are you using? I'm using V01.02.15
01:15:09alexbobPwhen I installed the clip+ firmware directly it worked, so I'm pretty sure yeah :P
01:15:16alexbobP01.02.15 is installed now
01:15:56alexbobPwith an A at the end
01:16:01alexbobPaccording to the "Info" screen
01:16:20dfktare you in MTP mode, or in MSC?
01:16:44bertrikThis version should also accept a patched 01.02.15 version.
01:17:03bertrikI think you need a recent patcher for it though
01:17:51bertrikor a recent RockboxUtility
01:18:58alexbobPmaybe it's my version of rockboxutility
01:19:01alexbobPI'll download a new one
01:19:53alexbobPyep... I was on rbutil 1.2.7
01:21:23alexbobPyep. it was the patcher. patching in progress :D
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01:39:19TheSevenbertrik: there seem to be datasheet mismatches all over the clock control regs
01:39:54TheSevenplls affecting each other, clocks being directly derived from a pll, without the usual mux+divider in between, ...
01:41:26TheSevenjudging from some diagmode code, the PLL lock count reg is actually counting *output* clocks, so it can't possibly be only 12 bits if it needs to count 150us at 200mhz
01:42:13*TheSeven wonders why we didn't notice all this way earlier. it's kinda funny to recognize that we apparently know hardly anything about this stable target :)
01:42:26 Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.)
01:42:40AlexPJdGordon|: Is there a tag that tells you whether radio or playback is active in the menus?
01:46:30TheSeventhere are at least three of those CLKCON regs, while there are only two of them documented. and in those are clearly some bit mismatches
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01:54:01alexbobPguys guys I have rockbox on my clip+ now :D
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02:08:23[Saint]AlexP: There's two seperate tags that can tell you that.
02:08:38[Saint]but, not one generic "is playback?" tag, no.
02:08:39AlexPYes, in a big comb ination
02:09:14AlexPWhich means I end up with %?cs<%?mp<%Vd(c)|%Vd(c)|%Vd(c)|%Vd(c)|%Vd(c)|||%Vd(d)|%Vd(d)>|%Vd(c)||%Vd(d)|%Vd(c)>
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02:09:58AlexPIt works, it is just a bit ungainly
02:10:00[Saint]that's not a combination! ;) that's only one condition! ;p
02:10:10[Saint]and...that's *nothing* ;)
02:10:28AlexPIt isn't a competition to make the most unreadable line :)
02:10:42keenerd"%Vn %Vd %Vc" as you would say in %Ltn
02:11:04*AlexP does not have %Vd :)
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02:15:17[Saint]before you could nest sublines in conditions...I had some *looooong* lines.
02:16:47 Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:18:01pixelmaAlexP: maybe you could "misuse" the %?if tag for it - if you can compare to the current status of %mp (which should return a number)
02:18:23pixelmanote: I just stumbled into the discussion and haven't read too much yet
02:18:39[Saint]though, if readability is an issue, %if won't make anything any easier ;)
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02:19:56AlexPpixelma: It isn't a massive issue - I want to display one set of viewports if radio is playing (or paused), another if file is playing (or paused). %cs makes this easy in wps or fms, but in menus I need to also check %mp
02:21:07pixelmashould be shorter at least - if I see correctly it's only a different viewport on one condition of %mp so it's just one comparison and for true %Vd(d), else %Vd(c)
02:21:21[Saint]AlexP: did you mean that with the tags the pther way around?
02:21:38keenerdSilly question. Would readability improve if the config was not whitespace sensitive, instead with a manual WS glyph?
02:21:59*pixelma should rather get some sleep
02:22:04keenerd(And newline glyph.)
02:22:11AlexPpixelma: two conditions on %mp, but if if lets yu do > then it'd be shorter, yeah
02:22:19pixelmait does
02:22:20AlexP[Saint]: Not sure what you mean?
02:22:33pixelmaAFAIK, haven't tried it yet though
02:22:52AlexPpixelma: At the moment anyway, there will be another option eventually for wrs
02:27:06[Saint]AlexP: You said "%cs makes this easy in wps or fms, but in menus I need to also check %mp", I'm pretty sure you swapped the position the tags should be in in the sentence.
02:27:54AlexP[Saint]: no, %cs tells you what screen you are in - in the wps or fms I can only be playing audio from disk or radio respectively
02:28:11AlexPIn menus however, it could be iether, so I need %mp to see which it is
02:29:05[Saint]I don't understand why you'd need to use %cs in the .fms or .wps
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02:29:29AlexPI never mentioned .wps or .fms
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02:29:30pixelma%mp also hase branches for radio playing, or recording active - can't you do with that?
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02:29:57AlexPpixelma: actually yes, I could probably drop %cs altogether
02:30:40[Saint]that was my point, but I got all confuse dabout what I thought you were doing.
02:30:46[Saint]turns out I did have it right.
02:39:32AlexPbertrik: Is the sim supposed to deal with %tr etc.? It doesn't seem to
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02:45:28[Saint]AlexP: What even is that tag?
02:45:40AlexPradio signal strengtj
02:45:40[Saint]CustomWPS knows nothing of it.
02:45:47AlexPyes, bertrik aded i
02:45:54[Saint] addition?
02:46:08AlexPdded it a few days ago (along with two other for max and min)
02:46:19AlexPsee the discussion I had with him a few hours ago
02:49:12alexbobPI'm addicted to rockbox
02:49:17alexbobPI had serious withdrawal when I had a fuze + for a week
02:49:28alexbobPnow I have a clip +
02:50:59alexbobPso... there's no hold switch. this is rather stoopid.
02:51:14alexbobPdoes rocbox have any feature to compensate for that?
02:51:25[Saint]there's a software hold iiuc
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03:19:29TheSevenhm, there's something funky going on with the PLLs
03:20:40TheSevenmy suspicion is that there is a total of 4 oscillators: a low-accuracy low-frequency on-chip oscillator, an external 32768Hz quartz, and external 1843200Hz quartz and some USB quartz
03:21:10TheSevenapparently there's a per-PLL way to choose between the external and on-chip oscillator or something
03:22:34TheSevenand there seems to be an additional clkcon reg controlling a mux+divider for i2c
03:24:55TheSevenapparently that on-chip oscillator is mainly used to survive switching between the two external oscillators, which seems to be controlled by an external component
03:28:40TheSevenjudging from sampling rate measurements the on-chip oscillator could be running at 768khz
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05:07:51*TheSeven wonders if he should try to piggyback the system bus on the audio clock :)
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05:36:38*TheSeven gives up for today
05:36:50[Saint]fair enough.
05:36:59[Saint]Any luck, though?
05:37:07TheSevenas soon as I start tampering with the PLLs, I get clicks in the audio output
05:37:13TheSevenand I have no explanation why
05:38:37[Saint]iirc bertrik has a Nano2G also...perhaps you can work it out between the two of you.
05:41:28TheSevenhm, maybe switching the HCLK clock source causes a glitch that propagates down to the I2S bus clock and is big enough to upset the codec... but I don't think that's likely
05:41:53TheSevenswitching the clock mux should be possible in practically no time
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05:46:40CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28581): iPod Nano 2G: Fix I2S clocking. All sampling rates should work now.
05:48:33CIA-7r28581 build result: All green
05:50:50[Saint]TheSeven: that should close out a bug IIRC
05:50:56*[Saint] looks
05:52:24[Saint]TheSeven: If you're correct, that should close FS #11404
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10:19:28*TheSeven finally figured it out
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10:22:47bertrikgood! but what? :)
10:23:39Buschelthe clk registers on S5L8701?
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10:25:10CIA-7New commit by bertrik (r28582): si4700/rda5802 tuners: prevent hang when changing radio region. Probably fixes bug FS #11754 .
10:26:44JdGordon|pixelma: %if(%mp, =, <the number for radio>) is *not* misuing %if.. that is the entire point of it!
10:26:53CIA-7r28582 build result: All green
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10:28:21JdGordon|hmm... maybe I should have added a :) there
10:29:15JdGordon|actually, does %mp return strings or numbers if it isnt used in a conditional?
10:29:29JdGordon|it might be able to do %?if(%mp, =, "radio")
10:29:58pixelmanumbers and bah, I don't want another way
10:31:49[Saint]TheSeven: ?
10:32:46JdGordon|I meant if it already returned strings.... If you want to argue that numbers are better than words I'll leave you to it
10:33:09TheSeventhe clock switches don't happen immediately - apparently it's waiting for the clocks to have a synchronous edge first or something
10:33:46pixelmayes, as AlexP said, it would also let you do something with ">" and "<" and I wouldn't want x ways to do the same thing
10:33:53TheSevenso if i leave the "old" pll running for some more microseconds, the glitches seem to go away
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10:57:01TheSevendoes anyone see something wrong with these two lines?
10:57:02TheSeven long time = USEC_TIMER;
10:57:02TheSeven while (TIME_AFTER(time + 15000, USEC_TIMER));
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10:59:31bertrikI never really know what the proper order of arguments is for TIME_AFTER
10:59:45JdGordon|isnt it backwards?
11:00:41bertrikI would do long time = USEC_TIMER + 15000; instead of adding it in the loop
11:01:19bertrikTIME_AFTER should be resistant to wrap-around IIRC, but not sure if it is with anything other than plain arguments
11:03:27bertrikperhaps it needs unsigned arguments
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11:13:20TheSevenhm, that loop apparently worked. it's the clkcon that isn't, once again
11:13:57TheSevenbertrik: two more weirdnesses: you can only power on PLL2 if PLL1 is already running. no idea why, might just be a badly set register
11:14:13TheSevenand powering down a pll causes an audio glitch, even if it wasn't used at all. damn.
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11:21:16n1sbertrik: just curious about your radio patch, do you know why that code caused the hang?
11:22:47n1sah, saw you posted an explanation in the task
11:23:23n1scandidate for backporting to a point release?
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11:47:26TheSevendoes rockbox support more than two possible CPU speeds?
11:47:59TheSevenif yes, we might want to do the following: FASTBUS 50MHz, FASTBUS 100MHz, ASYNC 200MHz (bus at 100MHz)
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11:51:25TheSevenand another interesting question: is set_cpu_frequency allowed to yield?
11:56:27bertrikn1s, I won't mind backporting it to a point release. Has the point release mechanism been decided now? Where should I backport the fix?
12:11:26TheSevenbertrik: just commit it to /branches/v3_7
12:12:23TheSevenhm, 16-17mA feeding into a high-impedance load at -20dB, 320kbit/s MP3.
12:12:33*TheSeven wonders where all the current is going :)
12:21:16terudoes anyone against to commit FS #11751?
12:30:24TheSevento whoever committed that (buschel?): reducing the lcd voltage from 3.0V to 2.6V reduces current consumption by a whopping 0.7mA
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12:30:37TheSeventhat's way more than I expected
12:37:13TheSevenhm. i did two measurements:
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12:38:06TheSevenbattery current reported by ADC when unplugged: 13-14mA, battery current reported by ADC when plugged: 7-8mA, USB current when plugged: ~11mA
12:38:20TheSeveni know it isn't charging, so the plugged ADC value is probably spurious
12:38:39TheSevenAFAIK the charging regulator is a linear regulator
12:38:47TheSevenso I'd say the ADC is off by ~7mA
12:38:56TheSevensecond measurement:
12:39:23TheSevenADC unplugged: 35-36mA, ADC plugged: 7-8mA, USB plugged: 45mA. huh? explanations?
12:40:16*TheSeven needs someone with an opened-up nano to measure the battery current... liar?
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12:45:00*TheSeven tells people to go for white-background themes :)
12:45:10TheSevensaves a whopping 2mA!
12:47:10TheSevenhm, no, that was apparently a fluke
12:47:52BuschelTheSeven: yes, LCD voltage reduction was submitted by myself −− it does not only reduce power consumption, it stopped the humming noise of the LCD :)
12:48:27Buschel(which is far more important for myself as I am really sensible to such noise)
12:50:01Buschelbtw, the nano sucks more battery current for me since a while (~20mA, measured by the ADC). Not sure why this is, even using older rockbox-builds does not reduce it back to the ~18mA I've measured before...
12:50:26Buschelall measured when playing back the same file of course
12:50:48liarTheSeven: i don't have the opened-up ipod anymore...
12:51:52BuschelTheSeven/liar: another option to save more than 2mA via white-background is to switch LCD off via using liar's patch ;)
12:52:00TheSevenfunny: locking the hold switch (which I would have though powers off the clickwheel) *increases* current by 0.5mA!
12:52:18TheSevenBuschel: that's what I will try now
12:52:21BuschelTheSeven: btw, the difference between your and my measurements could be caused by this background-effect. I am using a black one ;)
12:52:40TheSeventhis wasn't reproducibly
12:53:09bertrikTheSeven, maybe some pull-up or pull-down resistor on the hold switch drawing current?
12:53:26Buschelwhat wasn't reproducible? the background- or the hold-switch-effect?
12:53:35TheSevenbartrik: that would be way too much, considering that this would also happen if the device is powered off
12:53:40TheSeventhe background one
12:54:34Buschela pitty, this could have solved easily... I have some white-bg WPS as well
12:55:08bertrikI don't see why that would happen when powered off
12:55:18ranmachanI have an experimental patch for AMS, that uses the MMU to write-protect code, and moves interrupt vectors to the alternate high address to trap null-pointer dereferences. I was thinking this could be nice for debug builds
12:57:58TheSevenBuschel, liar: do I understand correctly that you aren't even shutting off power to the lcd in that patch?
12:58:29TheSevenbertrik: the hold switch can be used to wake the device
13:01:24TheSevenalso, disabling the lcd controller clock gate could further reduce power consumption
13:05:23liariirc currently i just send it into sleep mode. do we know how to shut the power to the lcd off?
13:07:41Buschelwe know how to switch off the power supply, and it seems like TheSeven knows how to switch off the clock gating
13:09:17TheSevenshutting off the power supply increases current by ~20mA. probably still some voltage on data lines to the lcd or something.
13:10:21TheSevenwe'll probably need to poke at some GPIOs
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13:35:28*TheSeven is still poking in the dark
13:38:08TheSevenhm, setting LCD voltage to 900mV seems to be a workaround
13:38:12TheSevensaves quite a lot
13:39:08Buschelhow much?
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13:50:02TheSevenlcd and controller fully awake: 10.4mA, lcd shutdown patch: 9.4mA, everything shut down: 7.7mA
13:50:10TheSeven(in embios)
13:50:46Buschelwow, each 1 mA is ~1 h of additional playback time
13:52:09TheSeveni'd say more
13:52:19TheSevendepends on the headphones
13:52:48TheSevenfor high-impedance (driving pc speakers) we might hit 35-40 with some tricks
13:53:28TheSevenLCD powered on and fully active, but controller shut down (static contents being displayed): 11.0mA
13:53:41TheSeventhat's weird
13:54:34TheSevenoops, mixed it up
13:54:50TheSevenfully active: 11.0mA, static contents and controller powered down: 10.3mA
13:56:46bertrikI thought we had a general rule about firmware/ code not calling apps/ code, but IAP seems to violate that
13:58:04LearYes, any firmware to apps calls should use callbacks (or events).
13:59:30amiconnTheSeven: Umm, if you're shutting down the controller, aren't you effectively outputting DC to the LCD?
14:00:49 Quit stoffel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
14:00:58TheSevenlcd in idle (8 color) mode, static contents, controller off: 10.0mA
14:01:16TheSevenamiconn: controller in terms of protocol controller core in the soc
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14:02:29amiconnWhy does it need so much?
14:02:50*amiconn isn't really used to devices needing so little total power
14:03:09TheSevenit's a bunch of gpios and clock gates that i can disable, seems to take ~0.7mA
14:03:41TheSevenso one can basically say that one can save an mA by using the LCD more efficiently (low frame frequency (8 color mode) saves another 0.3mA)
14:03:41CIA-7New commit by Buschel (r28583): Use same loop count for writing and memset'ing in test_mem to have same precision in the result.
14:04:29TheSevenshutting down the lcd saves another 0.7mA compared to 8 color mode
14:04:55TheSevenand reducing its supply voltage to 1.000V saves yet another 1.3mA for whatever reason
14:05:26CIA-7r28583 build result: All green
14:05:29TheSevenreducing it to 0.900V or shutting it off completely increases current by ~20mA(!)
14:05:49TheSeveneven though I think I set all the LCD GPIOs to input mode before doing that
14:08:35AlexPbertrik: Is the sim supposed to deal with %tr etc.? It doesn't seem to
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14:09:21stripwaxi hear faint clicks during audio playback on ipod video, whenever buttons are pressed (e.g. in Sokoban), and I *think* i hear same clicks when cpu gets boosted/unboosted.
14:13:08TheSevendisabling the accessory power supply only saves ~80A. not really worth it.
14:13:09CIA-7New commit by learman (r28584): Hopefully fix FS #11696: scrollwheel doesn't respond in some cases.
14:13:22Buschelmemory benchmarks for nano 2g (incl. alignment test):
14:13:45stripwaxi'm guessing it's unlikely to be codec-specific (i almost exclusively use vorbis); could it be a problem with the boosting implementation or with pcm?
14:14:26TheSevenprobably the combination of those two
14:14:33*TheSeven is fighting the same thing on the nano2g
14:14:58CIA-7r28584 build result: All green
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14:16:02Buschelnano 2g memory read suffers from non-aligned buffers (-15% for iram, -10% for dram). so, it makes perfect sense to align heaviliy used buffers in iram −− e.g. for codec stuff
14:20:14TheSeventhis is based on several assumptions that i cannot verify, but i have the impression that i can get embios idling at 192MHz down to ~6mA total :)
14:20:16amiconnI think that applies to all SoCs where IRAM is just a bit faster DRAM
14:21:19amiconnSoCs with true SRAM (PP, coldfire, SH) don't need alignment in IRAM (to more than data size, max. 4 byte); it would just waste precious space
14:27:41TheSeventhe 8701 actually has true SRAM, it's just slow SRAM :)
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14:44:53amiconnAll SoCs I mentioned have SRAM that is as fast as the cache, i.e. single cycle (except for some bugs in PP5002 and PP5020, and SH1 having only IRAM, no cache at all)
14:47:32kugelBagder: I think the search field in the wiki is gone since the upgrade
14:49:49TheSevenBuschel: USB power consumption: 11.7mA while playing 320kbit/s MP3 into high-impedance :)
14:50:33TheSevenI'd expect the charger itself to draw ~1mA (that's what it draws if the ipod is off)
14:50:49TheSevenso the battery current should be in the range of 10-11mA
14:51:02TheSeventhat's 36-40 hours with a new battery :)
14:51:19Buschelyu disaled
14:51:52keenerdDang. It is so weird to see Apple doing so well at low power design after years of laptops/desktop with overheating problems :-)
14:51:54Buschelyou disabled the LCD and reduced the prower supply to 1V?
14:52:09keenerdBut with those power numbers, the lack of uSD support starts to make sense.
14:52:23amiconnBuschel: Well, taking the many ipod generations into account
14:52:44TheSevenBuschel: exactly
14:52:54amiconnA 1st Gen draws ~100mA max. - without backlight that is
14:53:03amiconnAnd without hdd
14:53:16amiconnThe backlight draws another ~100mA
14:53:16TheSevenhm, the lcd doesn't wake up again once it's asleep... need to fix that later
14:53:24BuschelTheSeven: before it was ~17-18 mA, right?
14:53:42TheSeventhat's what the ADC says (which I don't trust)
14:53:44keenerdTheSeven: Are you using the USB system to measure power draw?
14:54:13BuschelTheSeven: what does the USB system say when LCD is not switched off?
14:56:04keenerdTheSeven: Spliced in ammeter or some /proc magic?
14:56:28TheSevenbacklight on: 31mA, backlight off: 15mA, lcd off: 12mA (playing 320kbit/s MP3 into 16 ohms headphones, but the track isn't very loud)
14:56:50TheSevenkeenerd: the hardware approach :) I don't trust anything else
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15:03:02CIA-7New commit by teru (r28585): rockpaint: fix gradient functions.
15:04:55CIA-7r28585 build result: All green
15:07:24Buschelanyone with an iPod 4g, color or nano 1g around and willing to verify fs#11707?
15:09:29[Saint]Buschel: I'm getting another Nano1G tomorrow or the next day, so bug me then if you've not had a tester already.
15:09:40Buscheli will :)
15:10:13keenerdTheSeven: And I was pretty sure USB ports can't detect to that resolution. If at all. Not possible under linux. WIndows might to 10mA, but that might just be the device reported max current.
15:10:13*[Saint] can't wait, he's been stuck with Nano2G too long.
15:13:28keenerdTheSeven: What ammeter? All mine have too high impedance on anything but the 10A setting. I have an (easily slammed) 20mA dial meter that works and an 0.1 ohm meter I made myself.
15:19:03soapdoes the nano 1G now have a way to report the current consumption through the debug menu or are you needing benches, Buschel?
15:19:17soapI haven't fired mine up in months.
15:20:07amiconnBuschel: I think this test also requires a dock / line out adapter of some sort
15:20:12Buschelhmm, I don't think there is any debug screen showing the consumption. but it would be fine to check whether the patch does what is meant to do
15:20:34soapand, yea, what amiconn said.
15:20:48amiconnI don't have such an adapter, otherwise I could do that test (but later, as I don't have my Color with me)
15:23:54TheSevenkeenerd: no idea what the impedance of that one in the 40mA (10A resolution) range is, but it's low enough
15:24:05TheSeventhe ipod will tolerate like 4.5V, and i'm feeding it with clean 5V
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15:32:59TheSevenhm, rockbox isn't as efficient as embios
15:33:09TheSeven9.7mA sitting at the main menu with the LCD off, playing nothing
15:33:21TheSeventhat's 2mA more than embios.
15:33:36TheSevenhm, maybe because the wolfson is powered up...
15:37:06TheSevenlcd off, 16 ohm headphones, -1dB (maximum possible without clipping), 320kbit/s MP3: 12-24mA, depending on the volume at that point of the track, averaging at about 17mA, that's an amazing 25 hours at maximum volume!
15:38:09[Saint]been a while since I did a bench on Nano2G
15:38:19TheSevenI'm sure there are tracks that need even more power, but it's still way above what apple manages to reach :)
15:38:43[Saint]didn't they advertise 18 for the 2g?
15:39:04TheSeventhey advertised 24h, and they're reaching 25-26, with occasional backlight
15:39:11TheSevenbut not at maximum volume :)
15:39:25TheSeveni don't think eu ipods even allow -1dB
15:41:50*TheSeven found a track that has spikes of up to 30mA, but still averages at ~18mA
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15:50:08TheSevenwhich other targets do have lcd sleep in svn?
15:50:19[Saint]Video does iirc
15:50:28TheSevenis it enabled by default on those?
15:50:36keenerdYou almost make me want to take a day off from work and get the Fuze up to the advertised 24hr playtime :-)
15:50:37[Saint]No idea sorry
15:51:06[Saint]TheSeven: If it is, I would say it should be changed.
15:51:32TheSevenI have the impression that the default value is target-independent, so probably yes :/
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15:52:25[Saint]If a user sets it, they are much less likely to confuse it with the unit being powered off.
15:52:51[Saint]which is the only real issue I see with it being enabled by default.
15:56:18*TheSeven must say that a battery runtime of ~10h with the backlight *always on* at maximum volume is amazing :)
16:03:43TheSeven[Saint]: it definitely is enabled by default on all targets
16:04:16[Saint]that's....kinda silly
16:06:47*TheSeven wonders why we don't have a crowd of complaining people
16:08:42CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28586): iPod Nano 2G: Show all PLLPMS and CLKCON values in the battery debug screen
16:10:20CIA-7r28586 build result: 5 errors, 0 warnings (theseven committed)
16:11:39CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28587): Oops, forgot to add CLKCON3 to the CPU header. Fixes red.
16:13:16CIA-7r28587 build result: All green
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16:21:55CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28588): iPod Nano 2G: Use sane (150 microseconds) PLL locking delays and properly set a third CLKCON register I just discovered
16:21:55CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28589): iPod Nano 2G: Set I2C clock to 374400 Hz, now that we know what it is derived from.
16:21:55CIA-7r28588 build result: All green
16:21:55DBUGEnqueued KICK CIA-7
16:21:55CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28590): iPod Nano 2G: Dynamic Vcore scaling, based on current CPU clock. Adds 1-2 hours of battery life.
16:22:01CIA-7r28589 build result: All green
16:23:42CIA-7r28590 build result: All green
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16:29:07CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28591): iPod Nano 2G: Implement LCD sleep (FS #11604 by Franz-Josef Haider), adds up to 5 hours of battery life
16:29:16CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28592): Fix path detection for app builds in configure and
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16:30:45CIA-7r28591 build result: All green
16:32:29CIA-7r28592 build result: All green
16:33:10kugelTheSeven: you need a send_event() call somewhere in the lcd driver
16:33:45TheSevenfor what?
16:34:46kugellet apps code know the lcd is active again (without polling lcd_active())
16:35:06TheSevenwhat kind of event is that?
16:35:25CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:35:25*TheSeven doens't know much about the highlevel parts of rockbox :)
16:35:36kugele.g. the skin engine uses it to disable updates, but it wants to re-enable glitch-free so polling isn't nice enough
16:35:46kugelthe other lcd driver do it as well
16:35:59TheSevencan you point me to one that does? ipod vide?
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16:46:20CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28593): iPod Nano 2G LCD sleep: Send LCD_EVENT_ACTIVATION event
16:48:11CIA-7r28593 build result: All green
16:48:57bertrikAlexP, not sure to be honest, I just tried the sim and it doesn't show signal strength
16:49:18AlexPyeah, it caused my sbs not to load
16:49:26AlexPer, scratch that
16:49:42AlexPbertrik: Anyway, I guess it should cycle through like battery does
16:49:48bertrikWhere/how do we simulate the radio hardware anyway?
16:50:07AlexPDon't know, but stuff like frequency etc. "works"
16:51:28bertrikAlexP, another thing: the suggestion was made to add bugfix;revision=28582 to a point release. Do you agree? If so, can I commit it to the 3.7 branch or should it go elsewhere?
16:51:57AlexPbertrik: Yes, that looks just the sort of thing :)
16:52:08AlexPand yeah, to the 3.7 branch :)
16:52:34bertrikI'll have a look at sim support for RSSI
16:52:57AlexPta, it isn't too important, just nice for completeness :)
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16:58:56CIA-7New commit by bertrik (r28594): Back-port r28582 (prevent hang when changing radio region on si4700/rda5802), see also FS #11754
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17:09:22G4OblivionJust stopping by to say thanks to TheSeven for his all the work hes done on the Nano 2G. Liar for his LCD Sleep too. I can finally switch back to RB from OF with the new battery savings.
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17:10:01TheSevenset "sleep (after backlight off)" to "always"
17:10:22TheSeventhen go into the "backlight (while plugged in)" menu (if it's plugged in, of course)
17:10:27TheSevenscroll to the top of the list...
17:10:33TheSevenguess what happens?
17:13:12TheSevenG4Oblivion: we should be between 30 and 40 hours now
17:13:33TheSevenand i think we've been about on par with the OF for quite some time
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17:15:29G4OblivionTheSeven: 7-8 Hours RB and 14 OF for me.
17:15:47TheSevenyour battery is at about 50% of its design capacity then
17:16:16TheSevenshould be 15-24 in rockbox now :)
17:16:57TheSevenhm, why on earth does lcd sleep affect USB?
17:18:47G4OblivionThats my average since I started using RB. I've always had around 14 hours OF. Its what I get for buying it refurb off overstock a few years back.
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17:22:15bertrikDoes anyone know how the radio is implemented in the sim?
17:22:53bertrikFor example, I'm seeing a stereo signal at 99.5 MHz, but can't find where this is implemented
17:24:46bertrikah found it, in uisimulator/common/fmradio.c
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17:35:17bertrikPff, I don't know how to make the RSSI show up in the sim, there's a #define HAVE_RSSI in the header file of tuner that support it, so #include "tuner.h" should get the HAVE_RSSI definition, but this is not how it works for the simulator.
17:36:37bertrikIt's a tuner chip specific thing so IMO it makes perfect sense to put it in the specific tuner header file.
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18:01:16froggymanwhen my fuze plays certain flac files it always skips over them after playing them for a few seconds. The files play without a problem on my computer... What could be the problem?
18:01:56froggymanIt can play other flac files without a problem
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18:03:35CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28595): Better quality images for the 320x480x16 cabbiev2.
18:03:53krazykitfroggyman, check with flac -t to see if they're broken?
18:04:17krazykitit would also be worthwhile to check for FS corruption
18:05:47CIA-7r28595 build result: All green
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18:10:45froggymankrazykit, I'll check the FS first
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18:11:27froggymanhow do I do the "flac -t" check?
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18:17:19BuschelTheSeven: great progress on the nano 2g today, congrats! \o/
18:17:35*TheSeven isn't too happy
18:17:41TheSeventhere seems to be a rather nasty bug
18:18:06TheSevenif usb is plugged or unplugged while the lcd is sleeping, it locks up hard (not even menu+select works sometimes)
18:19:55pixelmaI believe someone reported something similar for another target... Gigabeat S or so
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18:20:59smsiskoI have a question regarding an iPod, I think i changed the partition geometry while trying to make the iPod install the latest version of Rockbox, anyone knows the correct geometry for an iPod 30Gb ?
18:22:24pixelmaround, 1.8''... sorry, couldn't resist ;)
18:22:43TheSevendo they even care about this CHS crap?
18:24:12smsiskoI was unable to install the bootloader and now when I try to load the original firmware, I get a screen saying to connect the iPod to iTune... I guess I must have broken something...
18:24:30TheSevenis the firmware partition intact?
18:24:47smsiskoI did touch it, I think
18:24:56smsiskodidn I meant
18:25:10TheSevenhow does the partition table currently look like?
18:26:17smsisko63 heads, 32 sectors/track, 29070 cylinders
18:26:40TheSevenand which partitions are defined?
18:27:26smsiskoédevésde1 and édevésde5
18:27:46smsiskosorry for that /dev/sde1 and /dev/sde5
18:29:59smsiskois that what you were looking for ?
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18:31:43CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28596): Make the grey background of the images brighter to better match existing cabbiev2 WPSes.
18:33:27CIA-7r28596 build result: All green
18:36:06smsiskoFrom what I can tell I seem to have busted the firmware partition is there any way to restore it ?
18:40:10liarTheSeven: there are some CRLF linebreaks in your last commits
18:40:29*TheSeven already killed some
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18:40:54TheSevendo we have a consensus on the eol-style property btw?
18:41:09pixelmasmsisko: I believe iTunes is always an option and there's a page in our wiki for manual restore under linux (the former is the easier and more fail-safe method though)
18:41:52TheSevensmsisko: make sure to only use primary partitions, no extended ones (sde5)
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18:52:09smsiskomanual restore of the mbr was enough... Thanks
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19:17:15CIA-7New commit by moos (r28597): Add Franz-Josef Haider (aka liar) to the CREDITS for his works on FS #11604 committed in r28591.
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19:19:05CIA-7r28597 build result: All green
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19:23:31TheSevenhuh, I thought he was already in there?
19:23:48bertrikIs there some kind of design or explanation on how IAP autobauding works?
19:24:12*TheSeven wonders if he should revert the lcd sleep patch
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19:31:28liarTheSeven: did you try if it still locks up if you don't change the ldo 2 power? i remember my old ipod behaved strange when played with that one
19:31:50TheSevenyeah, ldo2 seems to be related to usb in some way
19:32:15TheSevenand i can't seem to find a way to keep it powered on while usb is plugged
19:32:27TheSeveni can't access the PMU from a tick task :/
19:34:29TheLemonManim trying to output sound trough /dev/dsp but dont get any output, headphones have to be powered ?
19:37:44TheSevenif i could find a way to stop the current drain if i power it down completely, i could make the PMU enable it automatically if there is external power
19:39:06 Nick benedikt93|AFK is now known as benedikt93 (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93)
19:40:19*Buschel just remember one thing...
19:40:57BuschelTheSeven: wasn't the ext clock getting slower when lowering the cpu voltage supply under 0.975 V?
19:42:08*TheSeven thinks it was 0.900V
19:42:33TheSeven0.975V was the lowest stable voltage for 192MHz IIRC
19:43:17Buschelhmmm, should be easy to figure out with a codec that is boosting/unboosting while playback
19:43:33TheSeveni tried that at 0.900 today and it was fine
19:43:52Buschelok, will try so as well
19:44:25TheSeventhis ldo2 problem is driving me nuts
19:44:43TheSeveni'd really like to know what is connected to this one
19:44:51TheSevenmaybe the USB oscillator?
19:45:01TheSevenand what could cause that insane current draw?
19:45:11TheSeven(with the usb block powered down=
19:50:37bertrikI think I understand the IAP autobaud now
19:58:57CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28598): Add a few cabbiev2 source images in the biggest scale I've found. I've used them for the 320x480 and 480x800 ports. Hopefully makes porting cabbiev2 ...
19:59:12TheLemonManno one has hints about my issue ?
19:59:47BuschelTheSeven: any reason you didn't put dblbuf[] to iram?
20:00:04TheSevenbecause i didn't think about it :)
20:00:20*TheSeven thinks it's a shame that we need it anyway
20:00:33Buschelit fits into iram
20:00:43CIA-7r28598 build result: All green
20:04:14BuschelTheSeven: do you know how the current consumptions scales with CPU clock on the nano 2g?
20:05:06TheSevena few milliamps... depends on how much time the cpu is active
20:05:36TheSevenforcing it to 100/200MHz increased the average current by 2/4mA
20:06:00BuschelTheSeven: ok, how much can we save when lowering the lower limit to 24 MHz?
20:06:11Buschelso, 24 MHz vs. 48 MHz?
20:06:26TheSevenwe'll get trouble with the APB if we do that, because the tick timer etc. is based on that
20:06:48TheSevenand i don't think it's worth it, as most codec are occasionally boosting at 48mhz
20:07:29Buschelreally? I didn't test mp3 at 48 MHz, but mI would expect it to run w/o boost
20:07:44TheSevenit doesn't
20:07:55TheSevenit needs ~50-60Mhz
20:08:11Buschelyou got the numbers from test_codec?
20:08:14TheSevenon the other hand, embios is always running at 192mhz and needs less current than rockbox, probably because it's in irqwait mode most of the time
20:08:28TheSevenno, from the buffering debug screen and boosting experiments (forcing to 48mhz)
20:08:48TheSeventhere were a few tracks that played without glitches, but the pcmbuf never held more than 50KB
20:09:06TheSevenand the UI was very, very sluggish
20:09:56Buschelthe lcd updates might also have taken some cpu as well...
20:09:57TheSeventhat's another reason I wouldn't want to use 24Mhz: the UI will be laggy
20:10:10TheSeveneven if it's idle
20:12:20Buschelok. another question: is there any reason to use a 48/96/192 instead of 50/100/200 scheme?
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20:14:36TheSevenBuschel: because apple is doing it that way
20:14:56TheSevenand because it actually divides quite nicely
20:15:06bertrikPossibly also to get good sampling rate accuract
20:15:17TheSeventhat's independent of the cpu clocking
20:15:41TheSevenit isn't even 192MHz, it's 191692800Hz
20:16:13BuschelI will try PLL0PMS = 0x006501 in a minute, that will use 200.9 MHz instead of 192
20:17:34Buschelif I am not mistaken... let's see
20:18:23TheSevenshould be 006401 IIUC
20:18:26 Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection)
20:18:55TheSevenoops, wrong
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20:19:29TheSeven006501 is correct, will be 200908800 Hz
20:20:30CIA-7New commit by kugel (r28599): Small improvements for the on screen popup on 320x480 cabbiev2 wps.
20:22:21CIA-7r28599 build result: All green
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20:36:31Buschelusing 200/100/50 does not scale the performance as expected. RAM speed is measured the same, test_codec shows a speed-up by much smaller than 1%
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20:42:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:43:21TheSevenhm, I'm quite certain that it's the USB oscillator that's eating those 2mA on LDO2
20:43:50TheSevenwhy would one connect that to the same regulator as the LCD!?
20:49:22CIA-7New commit by Buschel (r28600): Move pcm doublebuffer to IRAM on nano 2G.
20:51:27CIA-7r28600 build result: All green
20:52:16 Part NickPapagiorgio
20:52:17TheSevenliar: why do you reinitialize the LCD after sleeping?
20:54:17kugelrockbox uses half of the cpu time for playing mp3 than the inbuilt media player
20:56:59liarit didnt work for me without reinitializing(blank screen) (but was only necessary if i manipulated ldo2 while the lcd was in sleep mode)
20:57:38 Join dodddummy [0] (
20:58:22TheSevenmanipulating that one won't work anyway
20:58:45dodddummyrockbox rocks!!
20:58:57dodddummyclicking the donate button now
20:59:19TheSevenliar: do you know how to wake up the ilitek lcd if ldo2 wasn't touched?
21:02:28liarilitek is type 2 right?
21:02:38TheSevenyeah, or type 0 in the code
21:02:45 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
21:03:16TheSevenfor the leadis one it's as simple as sending R_SLEEP_OUT and R_DISPLAY_ON
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21:04:02bertrikdodddummy, thanks, appreciated
21:04:21 Part lixxus99
21:05:23dodddummybertrik, i'll have a hard time buying another player which rockbox doesn't support
21:05:28liarno i don't know... yet
21:05:57Stummi*courting* :)
21:06:07TheSevenapparently we're shutting this down more brutally, making it lose its state
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21:30:06 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia
21:39:21CIA-7New commit by theseven (r28601): iPod Nano 2G LCD sleep: Powering down LDO2 also affects USB, so we can't do that to shut off the LCD. Leave it on for now, and use the lightweight ...
21:39:54preglowjhMikeS: happen to be around?
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21:59:02TheSeven[Saint]: which patches do i need to build a build that's compatible with your anti-aliased iLike theme?
22:00:20TheSevengevaerts: what the hell is going on with the build server?
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22:09:57preglowanyone have any idea how full duplex audio processing is supposed to be set up api wise these days?
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22:18:45mrkikoHi all!!!
22:19:15mrkikoFinally I'm about to run rockbox again! And now I'm here for a simple question (I know I can read the buyer's guide, but I would like a more personal perspective)
22:19:43mrkikoI would need a device which: - can run rockbox; - has a very long battery; - offers lots of space. Don't mind if it's flash or disk-based.
22:19:57mrkikoWhat do you recommend?
22:20:10TheSevenwhat is "lots of space"? more than 32GB?
22:20:19n1sdefine "long battery" too please
22:20:47mrkikoeven 32 GB can sufficie. Long battery? Long as possible - no particular requirements ...
22:20:57mrkikoI need to use it with speech aniway
22:21:14mrkikoI'm blind so the display size is not important
22:22:35mrkikoAnd definitely - it would be better for the device to be very resistant to any kind of hostile environment :)
22:22:37 Join lixxus99 [0] (
22:22:40n1siaudio m5l and x5l models have very long battery times but I think they are not available in sizes over 30GB
22:23:09mrkikook... I'm taking down the names to analyse them later
22:23:49n1sone of the sansas with SD slot with a 32GB card could work too
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22:27:06mrkiko... ok! I'm looking the two specified here, trying to understand differences between m5l and x5l
22:27:37n1sthe main difference is that the x5 has a color display
22:28:11pixelmaand usually a radio
22:28:18mrkikoah ok
22:28:23mrkikothe m5 is out of production right?
22:29:03pixelmaI think both aren't produced anymore
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22:30:09mrkikoand they sai m5 has a color display aniway
22:30:21pixelmait doesn't
22:30:30gevaertsTheSeven: I don't know
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22:30:44pixelmamrkiko: it has a greyscale display, I know as I have one :)
22:31:00TheSevengevaerts: who can fix it?
22:31:13gevaertsZagor or Bagder
22:31:57gammymrkiko: I have an iRiver iHP 120 and an iAudio x5l here and I've been fiddling with both today.
22:32:58gammymrkiko: I uh, also purchased a 2GB Sansa Fuze today on ebay, the plan being to test it (if it isn't a revision 4?) and if it's nice puchase a 16Gb microSD card for it.
22:34:54gammymrkiko: The iRiver is the only one I have extensive experience using. It worked for almost ten years, and I modded it for a 32Gb CF card as well. Unfortunately I blew up the audio output stage some time ago, and now I'm experimenting with the iAudio
22:34:59gammy(which a friend gave me) which has a faulty "secondary" battery (the iAudio annoyingly having two)
22:35:14gammyPhew. A lot of typing and probably off-topic, I thought this was #rockbox-community.
22:37:17pixelmagammy: only the "L" models have two and unfortunately the Iaudio batteries don't seem to be the best ones (saw it with two "normal" X5s in the family and my M5L also lost quite a lot but still has quite nice runtime overall
22:38:57gammypixelma: Ah I see. Yeah the one I have was given to me by a friend as it wouldn't start up at all. Disconnected the large battery and it started up. I'd like to know if the iRiver battery is compatible. Then again it could be the charger that's
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22:40:28gammyI also tried my iRiver CF mod with the iAudio. It can boot up and put me in a menu. but then panics when I try to list files. I assume it's due to the timings on the CF card, but it's a shame since it works so well in the iRiver.
22:40:45CIA-7r28601 build result: All green
22:41:38S_a_i_n_tTheSeven: You should only need FS #8961
22:41:39Zagorgevaerts, TheSeven: it's a network triggered issue. the server gets confused when all clients disconnect during a round.
22:42:21pixelmagammy: my M5 works well with an SSD, guess there are enough small differences though
22:42:28 Part Zagor
22:42:30pixelmato CF I mean
22:42:30TheSevenso it was actually the server that went offline briefly?
22:42:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:43:01liarTheSeven: i see you are changing the cpus voltage when switching the cpu frequency. you could also reduce the memorys voltage while the cpu is running at the lower frequency
22:43:27TheSevenwe could generally reduce the memory's voltage
22:43:37TheSevenbut is its frequency dependent on HCLK?
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22:45:37preglowhow does one make rockbox make be verbose again?
22:47:39n1sv=1 make
22:47:44n1sV=1 even
22:49:30preglowcygwin make is so incredibly slow i have to rip out the parts i want
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23:11:44preglowanyone at all apart from jhMikeS that knows low level pcm code?
23:20:56 Quit guymann (Quit: Bye!)
23:25:00BuschelTheSeven: if I use FastMode, is CPU clock set to HCLK or to PCLK ?
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23:32:34*preglow cries
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23:53:06Damodaranyone knows how to change the lcd driver in ipod nano 2nd gen?
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