#rockbox 2010-11-16

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#rockbox log for 2010-11-16

00:00:41		Join Topy [0] (~Topy44@f048231108.adsl.alicedsl.de)
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00:04:34	krabador	hi people, i would to know if some of you guys are working on Sansa FuzeV1
00:09:59		Join casainho [0] (~chatzilla@bl15-96-164.dsl.telepac.pt)
00:10:08	saratoga	yes of course, we have a stable port to the fuze v1
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00:13:51	krabador	saratoga, i use it with great fun, i had fear that rockbox developers are focused only on v2 , for the fuzes
00:14:22	saratoga	i think theres not many people specifically working on any particular sandisk device
00:14:56	Torne	very little is specific to the particular devices once they get to the point of being stable
00:16:33	stripwax	krabador - do you have a specific question regarding running rockbox on the fuze v1?
00:16:57		Quit mirak_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
00:17:40	krabador	stripwax, battery duration will be improved again?
00:18:10		Join mirak_ [0] (~mirak@81-64-223-104.rev.numericable.fr)
00:18:56	krabador	fuzev2 battery duration on rockbox are awesome, but for v1 are the half...
00:20:10		Join JdGordon\| [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:20:22	casainho	hello
00:20:35	casainho	can someone tell me the state of Rockbox on Android?
00:20:45	casainho	(if there is sch thing)
00:20:51	JdGordon\|	working well
00:20:56	JdGordon\|	AndroidPort on the wiki
00:22:01	casainho	JdGordon\|: thanks ;-)
00:23:17	saratoga	krabador: there was some discussion of that today
00:24:18	casainho	JdGordon\|: do you have any idea of requesites for a board running Android + Rockbox?
00:24:28		Quit ender` (Quit: Engineers think that equations approximate the real world. Scientists think that the real world approximates equations. Mathematicians are unable to make the connection.)
00:24:29	casainho	like, how many RAM memory?
00:25:41	tmzt_dg2root	board?
00:25:48	krabador	saratoga, i can understand about v1 and v2 hardware differences, and how rockbox may vary on performance, on battery, i only hope that some of you developers are thinking about a solution to improve the battery duration on v1.
00:26:02	tmzt_dg2root	you wouldn't want to go below 128mb I would think for 2.2 without acceleration
00:26:22	saratoga	krabador: as I said, there was some discussion about that today
00:26:42	saratoga	RAM is so cheap i don't understand why you wouldn't just go with the standard 256 to 512 MB
00:28:00	casainho	I have a board with 32MB...
00:28:13	casainho	then I will port Rockbox to it
00:28:27	saratoga	ha
00:28:27		Join fdinel [0] (~Miranda@modemcable235.127-131-66.mc.videotron.ca)
00:29:01	casainho	this board: http://lyre.sourceforge.net/?q=content/imx233-3d-printed-enclosure
00:29:03	saratoga	if you just want to run Android + rockbox, you can actually buy ready made board with Android already ported to them, and then install your own build
00:29:26	casainho	I want to sell and not to buy ;-)
00:29:31	saratoga	ah ok
00:30:16		Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f048224233.adsl.alicedsl.de)
00:30:19	casainho	will Rockbox continue to be developed for audio players?
00:30:32	casainho	or Android devices are the future?
00:30:42	saratoga	whatever people want to work on
00:30:48	casainho	will market still sell/have MP3 players?
00:31:29	saratoga	yes, there seems to be room for both types of devices, although the days of hard disk and portable video players appear more limited
00:31:30	casainho	ok
00:31:46		Join lixxus99 [0] (~lixxus@78-86-253-21.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
00:31:47	amiconn	Crystal ball, anyone?
00:31:50	amiconn	;)
00:32:08		Part lixxus99
00:32:12	gevaerts	amiconn: can we get one that runs rockbox? :)
00:32:21	casainho	I want to build my own player, and sell it online −− produce at home and sell on shops like Etsy.com
00:32:37	saratoga	devices like the sansa clip will probably become the majority of the mp3 market, since they're in a cost, size and form factor that smart phones probably cannot reach
00:32:56	JdGordon\|	famous last words!
00:32:57	casainho	build a device and sell it with Rockbox installed and full of music files with CC license
00:33:08	JdGordon\|	watch phones will outsell smart phones eventually
00:33:10		Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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00:33:47	saratoga	theres a pretty fundamental limit to how small you can make a smart phone before the interface reduces it to a dumb phone
00:34:05	scorche	casainho: an android device needs much more memory than 32MB...
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00:35:14	casainho	I was just trying to know if I should port/use Android + Rockbox or just port Rockbox. Looks like I need to follow the "old" way
00:35:18	JdGordon\|	about 100 before it really starts complaining
00:35:31	keenerd	saratoga: By then we'll have solid voice control and bluetooth eyesets.
00:36:12		Quit komputes (Remote host closed the connection)
00:36:16	saratoga	"eyesets" are optically so difficult that they're probably never going to be feasible, and most people don't care for voice interfaces on devices
00:36:26	scorche	casainho: the new archos android devices are going to be coming out for extremely cheap - it will be pretty hard for you to come anywhere close to them...
00:37:39	keenerd	saratoga: $300 gets you QVGA, right now. Give it a few years to mature.
00:38:13	krazykit`	and between buying an archos android device and an amateur-built device, i know where my money is going
00:38:15	saratoga	the technology depends on having a large flat screen in front of your eyes at a significant distance away from your eye's lens, and no amount of maturation can change that
00:38:20		Quit krabador (Quit: Sto andando via)
00:38:45	saratoga	technology can add more pixel and make the display cheaper but it can't change the fact that the underlying idea is completely unappealing
00:38:53	casainho	scorche: yeah. But I want to make and sell a geek device
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00:39:26	casainho	I believe Android will not be geek
00:39:49	casainho	Rockbox is geek, I believe
00:40:01	*	scorche is a "geek" and has an android phone
00:40:11	casainho	no one commercial device come installed with Rockbox
00:40:11	stripwax	casainho - I suspect geeks would either want to buy a ready made commercial device, or a kit/board and make it themselves
00:40:16	*	JdGordon\| has an android because he is a geek
00:40:24	*	stripwax too
00:40:29	saratoga	in the long run android will probably replace all those random embedded operating systems and uclinux systems, so i think most little embedded electronic devices will run it
00:40:29	keenerd	scorche: Those are already out. Though the Archos 28 is stupid large. Same size case as the 32.
00:40:48	stripwax	i kindof disagree but that's rather ot
00:41:10	keenerd	saratoga: You are forgetting about routers and other devices without touchscreens.
00:41:14	casainho	stripwax: yes, I will explore that, try to give geek people what they look for
00:41:19	saratoga	those will probably run android too
00:41:25	saratoga	why does a router need a touch screen?
00:41:57	keenerd	saratoga: It does not. But Android does.
00:42:03	saratoga	Android doesn't need a touchscreen
00:42:16	saratoga	its a linux distribution, you can run it headless
00:42:46	keenerd	It is part of their minimum specs, along with the four buttons and an accelerometer.
00:43:01	saratoga	there are no minimum specs to use android, its an open source project
00:43:08	saratoga	you're thinking of the minimum specs to use the google branding
00:43:25	saratoga	most of these cheap devices taht come with Android are not google branded
00:46:56	casainho	saratoga: do you know if such Android code, need more than 32MB RAM?
00:47:04	saratoga	yes, much more
00:47:10	saratoga	well for the GUI stuff anyway
00:47:40	casainho	hmmm
00:47:42	saratoga	if you want the actual google experience you need about 192MB or so minimum, though as you gut it you can obviously get away with less
00:47:55	casainho	so, Rockbox port uses GUI from Adroid?
00:48:05	stripwax	it's an app, that runs ON android
00:48:15	casainho	hmmm, ok
00:48:16	saratoga	not very much of it, but in the long run it may use more of the android gui elements
00:48:32	scorche	well, it is more than just the GUI stiff - the way android deals with processes needs a decent bit of ram
00:48:34	stripwax	currently it's very much looks and feels identical to other touchscreen ports
00:48:38	saratoga	right now its not much different then on other touch devices
00:48:55	JdGordon\|	people here reckon android is bassically unusable with less than 100MB RAM
00:49:39	casainho	in future, will not be problematic to have Android + other MP3 players devices code?
00:49:46	JdGordon\|	here being work, not random people pulling numbers out of their ass
00:49:47	saratoga	Android basically includes a lot of things that Rockbox does not (networking, complicated windowing toolkit, java, web browser, VM, etc), so it needs quite a lot of memory compared to rockbox
00:49:54	casainho	will not the code be to different?
00:50:19	stripwax	we would always want to maintain a single code base.
00:50:49	stripwax	almost all of the android-specific stuff is implemented in separate android-specific files in the source tree
00:51:06	saratoga	although we might eventually want to support different GUIs for different devices (or multiple different GUIs on one device)
00:51:10	stripwax	rockbox abstracts away from most of that stuff currently
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00:51:23	stripwax	(^ by mostly supporting only one GUI currently..)
00:52:01	saratoga	the list interface is pretty nice, but if someone wanted to try another I'm sure that'd be accepted if it were implemented well and included the necessary separation of interface from underlying APIs
00:52:57	stripwax	for example - it might be nice to use fonts and media library functionality from the android host. (of course, it might not, but that's just one example)
00:53:46	JdGordon\|	media library - almost certainly
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00:53:55	JdGordon\|	or tie into sql instead of our database
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01:02:07	tmzt_dg2root	if your doing that you might as well support sqlite, but media scanner is not a very well implemented system on android
01:02:54	saratoga	i'm sure we want to use our own media scanner, since we support all sorts of things Android doesn't
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01:03:55	tmzt_dg2root	I mean if your going to write an sql backend might as well support sqlite on targets, at least ones with the memory to handle it, it's public domain license, in process, and not multithreaded
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01:07:29	saratoga	IIRC people have looked at sqlite and the memory requirements were quite large
01:07:43	Torne	it's huge compared to us, indeed
01:08:21	saratoga	FS #8852 - Add SQLite to the pluginlib
01:09:42	Torne	just the code for sqlite is 300kb+
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01:11:25	saratoga	plus it was never really clear to me what SQL really gets us, we don't exactly need complicated queries
01:11:39	saratoga	IMO we just need some more work on our current systesm
01:11:56	saratoga	things like the ability to log what files are being processed so that people can report files that crash the metadata parser easily
01:12:25	saratoga	maybe a portable database format so that we can more easily trouble shoot corrupted databases
01:12:37	saratoga	the problem is that the current database is barely maintained
01:14:38		Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Quit: Fwump)
01:16:58	JdGordon\|	the logging should be simple to add...
01:17:13	JdGordon\|	my biggest beef is not easily being able to resume a query
01:17:58	JdGordon\|	it should be able to do something like "artist=foo,album=bar" just like the file browser can do "/music/foo/bar"
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02:03:20	*	JdGordon\| wonders about moving more of the list settings (like the show icons and selector colours) into the sbs instead of the menu
02:03:38	JdGordon\|	maybe not instead of, but at least making them available to the sbs more eaiyl
02:03:40	JdGordon\|	easily
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03:31:26	saratoga	libmad synthesis patch now produces identical output to SVN
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07:47:06	*	Buschel 's nano just reached 8,5h runtime at 64% battery
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07:47:47	Buschel	this extrapolates to about 1,5h extra runtime with the latest changes (core voltage scaling and lcd sleep)
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07:56:58	S_a_i_n_t	Buschel: Nice
07:57:10	S_a_i_n_t	Nano2G runtime has greatly improved recently.
07:57:37	Buschel	yep, we might exceed 24h now :)
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08:20:53	S_a_i_n_t	Buschel: TheSeven's notes from (my) last night suggested that ~35h was possible with a few tricks and a brand new battery iirc
08:22:26	Buschel	S_a_i_n_t: there are some additional tweaks possible, like fiddling with the LCD's power supply when it is switched off (was removed from svn due to issues with USB)
08:22:42	Buschel	nice target to play with :)
08:22:53	Buschel	(except the codec performance)
08:23:08	S_a_i_n_t	yeah...I was wondering what LCD and USB had in common, it seems odd for one to affect the other.
08:23:35	S_a_i_n_t	And yes, it is a nice target...my second favourite though now I have another Nano 1st Gen.
08:24:10	Buschel	what is the benefit of the nano 1g over a 2g?
08:26:21	S_a_i_n_t	I just like them a lot better. They're nowhere near as fast as the 2G but I like the style of the 1st Gen a lot more...I would love to see if I could kludge the mainboard from a Nano2G into a 1st Gen shell.
08:30:10	Buschel	well, when using both cores the nano 1g is significantly faster. especially when clocking it to 100 MHz (I am doing this with my iPod Video)
08:30:28	Buschel	the memory (iram) is much faster on the PP CPUs
08:31:05	S_a_i_n_t	what is the Nano1G clocked to in SVN?
08:31:18	Buschel	48 MHz unboosted, 192 MHz boosted
08:31:25	Buschel	oops, that was nano 2g
08:31:30	S_a_i_n_t	I forget, it's been months since I've had my hands on one. Just loading a build onto one now.
08:31:33	Buschel	nano 1g: 80 MHz
08:32:00	S_a_i_n_t	does it handle 100 MHZ well? the Nano1g?
08:32:22	Buschel	not all PP's work stable or even start at 100 MHz. you could try, it's quite easily tested
08:33:25	Buschel	like this -> http://pastie.org/1301912
08:33:37	S_a_i_n_t	I'll gve it a go.
08:33:50	Buschel	you do not need to et the "#if 1" though, that's for using 24 MHz unboosted clock
08:33:54	Buschel	*set
08:34:29	S_a_i_n_t	does lowering the unboosted clock get any power savings?
08:34:47	Buschel	a lot
08:35:05	Buschel	but the gui will be somehow laggy. you might try it though
08:35:30	Buschel	that's why I use a gui boost patch which boost the CPU (with timeout) when using the buttons
08:35:45	Buschel	savings are 1 mA per 4 MHz
08:35:59	S_a_i_n_t	ah...right, if the UI is going to be slower I may leave it out...I can't stand the UI being laggy.
08:36:40	Buschel	do you only use your nano for music playback or for games as well?
08:37:33	S_a_i_n_t	a bit of everything
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08:37:53	Buschel	24 MHz saves ~4 mA compared to svn (40 MHz). but only for high efficiency codecs like mpc, flac or mp3
08:38:12	S_a_i_n_t	I use mp3 solely
08:38:48	Buschel	then you should _really_ think about using 24 MHz and the gui boost patch.
08:39:06	S_a_i_n_t	gui boost patch?
08:39:29	Buschel	fs#8668
08:39:51	S_a_i_n_t	thanks, so apply that patch, and the pastie you sent?
08:40:50	Buschel	yep, not sure whether tha patch still apllies. give me a note, if it doesn't
08:41:04	Buschel	need to go to the dentist now, wish me luck! :/
08:41:16	S_a_i_n_t	poor fellow. :/
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09:50:33	TheSeven	Buschel (for the logs): I have the impression that CPU sleep isn't working properly.
09:51:36	TheSeven	When I'm in emBIOS, it doesn't make a huge difference whether it's sleeping at 48 or 192MHz. In rockbox, this seems to account for several milliamps though, while it doesn't seem to make any difference if the CPU is decoding audio or not, as long as it isn't boosted.
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10:06:58	Zagor	TheSeven: I didn't know we even used sleep
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10:23:20	TheSeven	Zagor: oh? that would explain a lot...
10:23:25	TheSeven	how are we idling then?
10:23:52	Zagor	last I looked, we're just lowering the clock
10:24:13	TheSeven	what is our "idle thread" doing? do we even have one?
10:24:31	TheSeven	or are we just doing threadswitches like crazy if no thread wants CPU time?
10:26:58	Zagor	no, I'm confused. we do sleep in that case.
10:27:23	Zagor	firmware/thread.c:1206
10:28:36	TheSeven	apparently we're doing that fairly inefficiently...
10:29:47	TheSeven	emBIOS hits 50 hours of battery life when idling at 192MHz, rockbox about 30-35 hours at 48MHz
10:29:53	TheSeven	something can't be quite right.
10:30:33	TheSeven	rockbox at 192MHz would be more like 25 hours
10:30:53	Zagor	perhaps it's due to how much we're really idling. I'm not sure but I think we wake up every tick to check for activity.
10:31:09	TheSeven	a part of the power is certainly by the codec chip bein powered up, but certainly not all of it
10:31:50	TheSeven	emBIOS also wakes up every 10ms to do a thread switch, it isn't using a tickless system either
10:31:55	Zagor	ok
10:32:30	TheSeven	what baffles me is the difference between idling at 48 and 192MHz in rockbox, while there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in emBIOS
10:32:34	Zagor	sounds like there's room for big improvements then
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10:32:50	TheSeven	and even if we aren't idling that much, idling at the higher frequency should mean that we're idling way more.
10:33:49	TheSeven	haha, if we get that lcd sleep vs. ldo2 vs. usb issue sorted out we might be able to hit 50 hours :)
10:33:57	TheSeven	but not when playing audio
10:34:03	TheSeven	40 hours might be doable though
10:34:10	S_a_i_n_t	that's insane.
10:34:55	*	S_a_i_n_t wonders what he'd be getting if he dropped the 600mAh battery he has in a Nano2G
10:35:10	S_a_i_n_t	iirc, default == 400mAh
10:35:48	TheSeven	yes
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10:36:54	megatog615	hello
10:37:15	megatog615	i have set up rockbox on my sansa fuse v2
10:37:21	megatog615	it works great, and i love it
10:37:27	Stummi	fine :)
10:37:28	megatog615	but i was wondering
10:37:51	megatog615	i have a car stereo with a usb port
10:38:05	megatog615	and 'ipod interface' if i guess when an ipod is detected
10:38:24	megatog615	can rockbox emulate the ipod interface if i use my sansa fuse usb cord?
10:38:51	S_a_i_n_t	I believe I have two of them, I just have to find them in my piles of electronic crap...if I find them I'll send one in your direction TheSeven. exactly the same dimensions as the Nano2G battery (actually ~2mm shorter ~1mm less wide), same specs except 600mAh
10:39:31	gevaerts	megatog615: no
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10:40:29	megatog615	aww
10:40:35	megatog615	is such a feature planned?
10:40:37	Zagor	megatog615: no. but have you tried connecting it? some ice systems support "usb sticks"
10:40:51	megatog615	yes it reads it as if it was a usb stick
10:40:57	megatog615	but i have lots of flac music
10:41:13	megatog615	and the stereo wont play anything but mp3, wma, and aac
10:41:26	Zagor	ok
10:41:27	TheSeven	S_a_i_n_t: yeah, go for a 60 hours of playback, 64 gigabyte nano2g :)
10:41:49	S_a_i_n_t	that'd be awesome ;)
10:42:09	S_a_i_n_t	You reckon that a 600mAh battery would give the Nano2G 60hours?
10:42:29	Zagor	megatog615: there's been some research into emulating an ipod interface but nothing usable
10:42:58	S_a_i_n_t	both these batetries are new too, well...new when I bought them. I really should find them, it's worth opening up a Nano to get that kind of runtime in return.
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10:43:31	gevaerts	megatog615: first of all it's not clear what "ipod interface" means. It might just be some extension that talks to the ipod database, in which case implementing that still won't give you flac
10:43:47	megatog615	Zagor: i dont even know if this cable or the fuze itself can do line out, line in, etc etc like an ipod
10:44:37	megatog615	im assuming an ipod's 'ipod interface' allows the stereo its connected to to control the ipod as well as accept line out from it
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10:45:04	gevaerts	Does that ipod interface still use USB?
10:45:08	Zagor	right. if it's just an usb slot in the car then you're probably stuck without flac
10:45:22	megatog615	my stereo can apparently do play/pause/next/previous
10:45:32	megatog615	for ipods
10:45:59	megatog615	luckily for me it has an aux input
10:46:12	megatog615	still restricted by battery life though
10:48:15	keenerd	megatog615: Sansa players have line in/out as part of that giant connector.
10:48:44	Zagor	keenerd: yes, but if the car has a usb slot that doesn't help
10:49:16	megatog615	the sansa end of the connector looks like it has all the pins
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10:50:06	megatog615	why cant line out/in be done over usb?
10:50:18	Zagor	megatog615: I would guess your stereo does the actual file encoding for ipods too.
10:50:20	gevaerts	Because USB is not line in/out
10:50:25	Zagor	*decoding
10:50:47	megatog615	gevaerts: yes but the sansa end of the cable is rather large
10:51:06	gevaerts	Most of that is not USB
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10:51:42	megatog615	im betting that there's a chip that converts it to a data stream much like the interface for usb game pads and other such thing
10:51:50	Zagor	...and the "ipod interface" is about reading playlists and the song database off the ipod
10:52:02	megatog615	mm
10:52:04	megatog615	well
10:52:09	megatog615	obviously it doesnt work
10:52:15	megatog615	so my question is answered
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10:52:58	Zagor	megatog615: we could probably do a combo solution, where you can control the sansa over usb but have to connect aux for audio
10:53:11	Zagor	otoh the car stereo probably can't mix those modes
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10:54:17	megatog615	cant believe line in/out cant be done over usb despite the fact that there's many usb headsets, etc
10:54:34	Zagor	megatog615: it can be done. but ipods don't.
10:54:39	megatog615	ok
10:55:15	megatog615	i guess the stereo reads the db and playlists and handles ipod control but reads the files off the ipod via the usb interface
10:55:28	Zagor	yes
10:55:33	megatog615	decodes them in the stereo instead of the ipod
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10:55:48	megatog615	well thats a huge bummer
10:55:54	Zagor	there's also a bling feature in the protocol to upload a logo to the ipod
10:56:09	Zagor	so there's a BMW roundel or such on the ipod when connected
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10:56:40	gevaerts	Line in/out can not be done directly over USB. You need support for the USB audio protocol on both sides. It's not a matter of putting audio on one of the wires
10:56:59	megatog615	too bad rockbox cant present a list of files in mp3 format and transcode on the fly when they're accessed :)
10:57:10	gevaerts	And as I said, it's not at all clear what these car things expect
10:57:12	Zagor	megatog615: haha, neat idea ;)
10:57:28	megatog615	sort of like DAAP
10:57:58	megatog615	doubt the little fuze can transcode in a timely manner to do crossfade etc
10:57:59	Zagor	megatog615: does the stereo support wav?
10:58:20	megatog615	Zagor: havent tried wav(i dont use it for my music)
10:58:52	megatog615	but if it did support it then transcoding would be easier
10:58:52	Zagor	if it did, transcoding would be a theoretical possibility
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10:59:43	Zagor	and a lovely obfuscation of the usb layer ;-)
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11:00:25	megatog615	the stereo is a Kenwood KDC-BT472U
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11:01:59	*	gevaerts still wants to work on MMC support in the MSC code to be able to present an audio CD view of a playlist
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12:55:06	kreislauf	hi, ahm, is this the place for technical questions regartind rockbox?
12:55:42	pixelma	anything Rockbox related
12:58:01	kreislauf	well then, should you be able to connect the player to your computer, while rockbox in online? i'm asking, because i have to shutdown my fuze V2 to get it connected and that will happen with original firmware.... while in rockbox, i am not able to connect, just power up the battery
12:58:08	kreislauf	is that normal behaviour?
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13:00:07	megatog615	kreislauf: same fuze here, i hate the library updating in the OF
13:00:23	megatog615	takes more than 45 seconds on most occasions
13:00:28	pixelma	as far as I know the Fuze v2 doesn't have Rockbox USB yet so you have to use the original firmware for this, so I think it's currently normal. I don't have such a player though
13:00:36	megatog615	cant wait for stable usb
13:00:43	kreislauf	ah ok
13:00:57	kreislauf	i can live with it, it's just a little annoying...
13:00:59	kreislauf	thank you
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13:14:32	keenerd	pixelma: I don't miss rockbox usb. Means I can charge and listen at the same time without using my hacked up (no data) usb cable.
13:14:56	pixelma	you could do so with Rockbox USB too
13:14:57	keenerd	Though the keyboard/mouse emulation is pretty sweet.
13:15:14	keenerd	Never say anything in the manual to that effect.
13:15:20	keenerd	*saw
13:15:58	gevaerts	You possibly didn't look in the right place then
13:16:10	*	keenerd looks again
13:17:25	pixelma	paragraph 3.3
13:17:56	*	pixelma wonders a bit why this is already in the Fuze v2 manual
13:18:12	pixelma	it's probably not wrong but unnecessary
13:18:23	gevaerts	The manual doesn't know about the hack to not reboot for USB
13:19:22	keenerd	Ah. I only read ch 4 onwards :-(
13:20:25	pixelma	ah true, forgot that this would usually be needed even without Rockbox USB - the normal behaviour would be an automatic reboot to the OF which was just disabled for these devices as it can get you into trouble
13:21:54	keenerd	Heh, it works. (On my old c250.) Holding select does stuff in the UI though. Guess I was looking for a way to disengage rockbox usb.
13:21:58	keenerd	pixelma: Thanks.
13:24:18	megatog615	speaking of the keyboard emulator, is there any way to change the controls on it for my fuse v2?
13:24:57	megatog615	its a bit awkward to have left/right rotate as left/right and up button/down button as up/down
13:25:12	megatog615	or was it the other way around
13:25:34	megatog615	i've avoided playlist creation simply because of this
13:26:15	keenerd	Really? I thought the mapping was pretty slick. Though playlist and home could be switched to be more in line with the OF.
13:27:20	megatog615	no no i mean the on screen keyboard when naming playlist files etc
13:28:15	keenerd	Oh. I use Morse instead :-)
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13:39:11	JdGordon	gevaerts: have you heard any reports about rockbox usb (on ipod) causing the pc to not bootup and windows to freeze on boot?
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13:39:40	gevaerts	The former, yes (BIOS things), the latter, no
13:40:21	JdGordon	probably the same thing, I connected it apparently too early and windows got nowhere... anything I can do to debug?
13:41:06	Zagor	ask Steve for the source?
13:41:13	Zagor	B->
13:41:58	JdGordon	actually I have a mate in windows...
13:42:19	gevaerts	Possibly enable lots of logf()s in usb_storage.c and see what it's doing
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13:43:58	wodz	I am reading button-mini1g.c and I am wondering if int_btn shouldn't be declared volatile. As far as I remember variables modified by ISRs should be volatile am I right?
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13:48:43	JdGordon1	3 small not-entirely-unrelated bug fixes really should be in 3 sperate commits right?
13:48:52	JdGordon1	fs#11721, 11722, 11723
13:51:18	gevaerts	Probably
13:51:25	gevaerts	Do we have his real name?
13:53:54	JdGordon1	yeah
13:54:09	JdGordon1	arg, tabs instead of spaces
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13:55:23	CIA-7	New commit by teru (r28607): rockpaint: change the way to handle tools to improve readability. ...
13:57:53	CIA-7	r28607 build result: All green
13:58:18	JdGordon1	crap... who knows playback.c :(
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14:15:54	Stummi	teru, are you still on the rockboy-patch or shall i look for someone else to bug with this? ;)
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14:17:42	CIA-7	New commit by jdgordon (r28608): Accept FS #11722 by Michael Hohmuth ...
14:18:49	teru	Stummi: no i'm not. i'm sorry.
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14:19:33	CIA-7	r28608 build result: All green
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14:21:43	Stummi	teru, ok, no problem. Thanks anywhere, you had helped me a lot on my two tasks :)
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15:02:26	S_a_i_n_t	Buschel: (logs) build result - nano2g bootloader w/ FS #8668 http://pastebin.com/YVdDLwQi
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15:16:18	*	S_a_i_n_t wonders if we could pass speex encoded voice clips through the iPod piezo...
15:16:40	S_a_i_n_t	that'd be kinda cool for the non-sighted
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15:18:18	*	Strife89TX imagines it would sound ... interesting.
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15:19:32	*	S_a_i_n_t has heard voice outputted through a piezo before, it's definitely possible
15:20:01	S_a_i_n_t	and...sure, it doesn't sound amazing, but it's quite audible
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15:39:33	Stummi	a developer here who has some free time? I am looking for somebody to review my rockboy-patches and apply them to the svn-version
15:39:55	*	S_a_i_n_t gets a weird bootloader error "No partition found insert USB and fix it"
15:40:12	Stummi	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11757
15:40:14	S_a_i_n_t	Stummi: Them being on the tracker is enough
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15:40:36	Stummi	S_a_i_n_t, don't seems so
15:40:44	S_a_i_n_t	I'm sure developers have seen it the last 3 or 4 times you've mentioned it ;)
15:42:04	Stummi	somebody said i have to bug this chan with this :p
15:42:33	Stummi	if i want this to get worked
15:42:40	S_a_i_n_t	yes, but "bug" didn't really mean "spam the channel 3, 4, 5 times a day" ;)
15:43:34	Stummi	hm, ok g
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18:08:32	kugel	the froyo update for my legend fixed the htc bug
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19:11:13	bluebrother	AlexP: yes, the links in Rockbox Utility are links and are supposed to work. However, since that invokes the default system browser this might not work in all situations (but I'm pretty sure it works on Windows and OS X)
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19:18:26	Buschel	S_a_i_n_t: somehow a change in arm/ipod/button_target.h is missing. try this -> http://pastie.org/1303197
19:18:39	Buschel	S_a_i_n_t: the above patch compiles for ipod nano 2g here
19:18:45	Buschel	ahem, nano 1g
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19:35:29	saratoga	Buschel: I got libmad working with the new filter coefficient ordering
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19:36:04	Chronon	Did we lose the search link and entry box for WikiNames in the recent upgrade of Foswiki?
19:36:30	saratoga	started converting it to 16 bit precision last night, but got hung up in the mess of macro's for fixed point in libmad and went to bed
19:37:00	saratoga	i'll also try and get some armv4 ASM for you to try on your nano2g soonish :)
19:37:13	saratoga	(using 32 bit coefficients of course)
19:37:27	Chronon	I'll leave a note on the WikiIssues page about it.
19:37:28	bertrik	Chronon, I think so
19:38:22	Buschel	saratoga: I saw that you've updated your patch. I will be happy to test any patch from you −− will of course need to wait until the runtime test is finished. this might still take a while :o)
19:38:36	saratoga	the current version is probably still slower anyway
19:38:54	saratoga	i think on armv4 this version won't be much better then what we have now
19:39:07	saratoga	the main speed up will just be us getting around to properly scheduling for arm9
19:39:40	saratoga	since i don't think theres any advantage to doing load pair wise sequential verses loading all the odd indecies on arm9
19:40:27	saratoga	so the savings will just be one cycle per load by avoind the ldr -> mul interlock in the current code
19:40:36	AlexP	bluebrother: Yeah, domonoky said - they don't work however for me (KDE). Not a big issue, it just confused me a bit :)
19:40:54	saratoga	though i guess if 16 bit precision is good enough, there might be some savings by letting the multiplication early terminate on armv4
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19:42:15	Buschel	we will see :)
19:43:21		Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
19:44:01	Chronon	Hmph. I'm getting rejected by a validation screen that doesn't contain any controls for actually validating.
19:46:38	*	Buschel nano 2g is heading towards 24h runtime (+2h against latest test)
19:51:05	Chronon	Hmm... The page source suggests it might be that my browser (firefox) is blocking cookies. I looked in preferences and don't see any setting for cookie policy there.
19:51:24	Chronon	BRB
20:00
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20:13:33	Chronon	Well, I have double checked that both cookies and javascript are enabled. I still get a blank verification page, so I can't edit WikiIssues (or other pages in the wiki apparently)
20:14:15	Buschel	works for me here (Firefox 3.6.12)
20:14:43	Chronon	strange. I am using the same version
20:15:38	Chronon	oops. apparently setting custom history settings didn't take. It might be my fault about the editing.
20:15:43	Buschel	I need to type wiki name and password two time though. 1st time in the well known popup, 2nd time on a wiki page. afterwards I can edit pages
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20:24:05	Chronon	Buschel, it seems like a problem with my browser. I just edited a different wiki page with rekonq with no problem. I guess I'll go try to find out what's wrong with my firefox.
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20:30:30	Jaykay	hi, i think FS #5192 and FS #5448 can be closed.... first has a 3-years-old patch which didn't even work when it was created, second one has a 4 year old patch and mainly adds signal strength for the tea5767, which is in svn now
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20:53:01	pixelma	Chronon: I see the same as Buschel - needed to log in twice but it works. Firefox 3.6.12 here too
20:55:50	Chronon	pixelma: Yeah. I'm going to search for the problem. I can edit and save changes using the rekonq browser. I am beginning to suspect that my firefox user profile has a problem since I am having problems with setting custom settings (the only way I get access to cookie-related settings).
20:58:24	Chronon	I'm going to delete cookies.sqlite and see if that fixes it.
20:59:12	Chronon	(Anyway this is off-topic here now. The only rockbox issue is the lack of search link and entry box for WikiNames.)
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21:53:52	AlexP	bertrik: Could %tr be made to be used in a conditional pretty please? I'd like to use a nice image for it :)
21:54:05	AlexP	(or would you prefer I prod JdGordon?) :)
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22:06:42	AlexP	Stummi: Bugging people is fine :)
22:06:52	AlexP	(within reason) :)
22:10:28	wodz	anyone know how exactly look the waveform from ipod clickwheel used in mini 1G?
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22:47:38	bertrik	AlexP, actually i know very little about tags, any inconvenience is not intentional
22:48:00	AlexP	bertrik: No inconvenience at all, sorry if it came across like that
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22:55:03	eWill	Are they any RB-ported players with an AM radio inside?
22:55:21	Chronon	AM radio antennae have to be very large −− so no.
22:56:20	gevaerts	You could attach some simple electronics to line-in I guess :)
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22:56:34	eWill	anyone know the cheapest player with a line-in?
22:56:45	eWill	that is RB-ported
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22:57:30		Quit Jaykay (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630])
22:58:25	evilnick_B	The H1x0 irivers have line-in, but as most of the RB-able players are only available second hand it depends on what you can find in your area
22:58:41	*	evilnick_B is not saying that the H1x0s are necessarily the cheapest
22:58:50	eWill	thank you
23:00
23:00:28	Chronon	The big advantage of the H1x0 is that it has a 3.5mm input jack for access to line-in (rather than a proprietary dock).
23:00:45	Chronon	(H3x0 has this too)
23:03:08	evilnick_B	H1x0 has the advantage of optical (over the H3x0) in case that is important
23:03:49	*	gevaerts would just buy a cheap AM radio
23:05:13	Chronon	I would like to clarify that there are some small antenna designs for AM. I found a media player with AM here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/11/c-crane-witness-am-fm-dap-will-make-you-wish-wolfman-jack-was/
23:05:51		Quit simonrvn (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:08:36	saratoga	i bet AM reception isn't that great without a real antenna
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23:11:31	*	Buschel 's nano 2g just stopped playing after >24h of playback
23:11:43	Buschel	that's amazing :o)
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23:14:44	eWill	c crane is supposed to be good
23:14:50	eWill	i thought
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