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#rockbox log for 2010-11-18

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00:33:59johnfrombluffHi all. I'm trying to disable USB keyboard mode (alternatively, enable USB charging-only mode) on my iRiver H20. I've been Googling for about an hour, to no avail. I see a mention of using the Power + Rec button, but the H10 manual makes no mention of the Rec button (that I can see). Can anyone help? Thanks in advance :-)
00:37:42 Quit captainkewlll (Quit: Page closed)
00:38:45JdGordon|which target? h10? h120?
00:39:55johnfrombluffJdGordon|: Thanks for your response, and sorry for my terse reply. H10, but installed on an H20
00:40:39saratogaalthough if you didn't see that option on your player its possible its not enabled for it
00:41:36johnfrombluffsaratoga: Thank you. In that material, I can only see information about switching between modes (Multimedia, Presentation, etc.), but not switching Keyboard mode off entirely. Or is it right in front of my and I can't see it?
00:41:59saratogai have no idea
00:42:04saratogathats just what google brought up
00:42:15johnfrombluffsaratoga: Thank you anyway, I appreciate your help
00:43:18gevaertsIf you want MSC without HID, the "USB HID" setting is what you want
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00:43:39johnfrombluffgevaerts: Thanks!
00:43:42gevaertsIf you want to charge while using the device, is what you need
00:43:51gevaertsAnd it's a H10 20GB, not a H20 :)
00:44:26johnfrombluffgevaerts: Yes, I just read that on the back of the device ;-)
00:46:02johnfrombluffThanks for your help, people. Problem solved (USB HID mode = Off)
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00:52:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:05:02eWillIs there a web page where WPS-breaking commits are always posted?
02:06:38JdGordon|SkinBreakingChanges on the wiki
02:07:03eWillthank you :)
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02:39:50eWillI can't find a skin breaking or wps breaking web page.
02:44:56JdGordon|Change not changes :/ sorry
02:47:06eWillThanks a lot. I'll save the bookmark, but just so you know, a link to that page does not appear on (i searched "skin" "wps" etc...)
02:48:38JdGordon|iirc it is linked on the change log page which is good enough
02:48:49JdGordon|it isnt something we want to have to link to often
02:49:23eWillOh ok, just so you know i looked.
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02:53:28 Quit eWill (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630])
02:54:15hkmixHey, would anyone have any idea how to add a 2-pixel padding after the title of menus?
02:54:32JdGordon|how do you mean?
02:55:05hkmixIn each menu there's a title, such as "Rockbox" for the main menu or "Settings" for the settings menu.
02:55:27hkmixI'm running a Clip+ with the status bar off, and the font is size 14, so there are 2 pixels from the bottom that "leak" to the top.
02:55:48hkmixI'm trying to pad 2 pixels to the title (or have it appear 2 pixels lower) so the "leaking" doesn't occur.
02:55:59JdGordon|ah, easy
02:56:25JdGordon|you need to create a .sbs which is the base skin for the menus
02:57:08hkmixYeah, I thought so as much, I'll go have a look at the theme layout and get back to you =P
02:57:25JdGordon|one sec
02:58:27JdGordon|save to a .sbs and put it in the wps dir and load it from the menus
02:58:30JdGordon|that should work
02:58:53JdGordon|if you want the icon also it is a bit extra work
02:59:17hkmixI'm looking at the
02:59:33JdGordon|you can ignore that
02:59:45hkmixAlthough, I'm turning the status bar off so it's not a huge deal.
02:59:48hkmixThe icons, I mean
03:00:20hkmixWhat's the FAQ page for the .sbs theming?
03:00:56JdGordon|there is a trick to the cions which I dont remember off hand
03:02:27hkmixI'll play with the files and see if I can get this to work.
03:03:28JdGordon|something like
03:04:45hkmixOops, messed up the
03:04:58hkmixSo only one pixel appears for the menu, the left-most ones =P
03:12:36hkmixI got the basic things to work, thanks.
03:12:40hkmixGonna figure out the icon now.
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03:22:38hkmixJdGordon|: I can get the icon to show up, but interestingly it breaks the viewpoint delarations.
03:23:15JdGordon|breaks how?
03:23:24JdGordon|it probably needs to go in its own viewport
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03:24:10hkmixJdGordon|: Actually, that's my fault; I set the x and y to the size of the image instead of the location
03:24:39hkmixActually, yeah, it does have the same problem, I'm going to put it in its own viewport.
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03:44:38IceGuest_75Can someone help me with an issue related to a Sansa Fuze v2?
03:44:47krazykitonly if you say what it is
03:45:01IceGuest_75It won't connect to my computer as mass storage
03:45:13IceGuest_75It charges, but that's it
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03:53:09del-ircAny ideas?
03:56:36krazykitthe fuzev2 doesn't have USB mass storage support yet. boot the OF to transfer files
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04:03:44del-ircAlright and I just figured out how to boot into OF
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04:11:20yelpedCan we have some opinions on the last comment posted here?
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06:35:13freddybyelped: I thought it was pretty awesome... :)
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06:40:31LloreanJdGordon|: What would you think about M3U playing by default in the normal file browser, but viewing / expanding when invoked through the catalog. So people who browse to M3Us in folders can just play them like normal, but the playlist catalog becomes even more focused on editing / creating playlists?
06:41:02LloreanI know it's more complex, but it might be a compromise that might feel better to some of the people who still like their playable m3us.
06:42:04JdGordon|a bit hard to make work, but sounds good
06:43:09LloreanPersonally I like playable m3us myself, but if they can't be kept I think expanding all m3us when selected is the better "for everyone" choice.
06:43:19LloreanSince it offers new functionality in general with a minimal impact on the old.
06:43:57JdGordon|wont that possibly be confusing though?
06:44:13LloreanExpanding in the catalog but playing in the file browser?
06:44:59LloreanI don't think it'd be particularly confusing.
06:45:22LloreanBut then, I don't think many things that seem to confound users are that confusing. :)
06:46:48LloreanI think, though, that it's one of those things people would get used to very quickly, or not even notice. The "playlist catalog" may not even be something most users think of as "m3u" files, and I suspect most users use either the catalog or filetree playlists, but not both
06:47:10LloreanIt's more like Database for playlists.
06:47:21LloreanAnd they handle that Database works differently than Files well enough
06:47:41JdGordon|db and files dont work differently
06:47:53JdGordon|but otherwise yeah ok that makes sense
06:49:33LloreanThey do slightly, in terms of bookmarks and other things (it's a much more subtle difference, whereas this one will be really obvious I think)
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07:29:01*[Saint] lols at
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08:42:22Buschelsaratoga: the D coefs use s17 format and therefor need 18 bits. the libmad constants are shifted by <<12 before the PRESHIFT macro.
08:43:29Buschelsaratoga: if you shift them by >>16 you will loose 4 bits of precision, but keeping 2 bits of (unused?) headroom.
08:44:24Buschelsaratoga: ideal for the D coefs would be to >>14 which will result in fully used 16 bits. this will still drop 2 bits of precision...
08:46:30Buschelsaratoga: for your armv5/v7 optimization using the 32=32x16 muls this is fine. for your 32=32x32 c-implementation this might be problematic as you might need to pre-shift the 2n operand too much to avoid overflowing in the multiply-adds.
08:52:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:05:00markunI see some m68k work for llvm. Would be cool if it eventually could compile rockbox for the colfire targets.
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09:22:13*pixelma wonders if Zagor saw the reports of wiki problems here and would have time to fix
09:22:56*JdGordon almost has the playlist catalog more sensibly :)
09:23:22Zagorpixelma: yes
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09:25:17pixelmaalso the disappeared "Go / Search" box?
09:26:46Zagoryes, it dissappeared in the upgrade. not sure why...
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09:30:57Topic"Rockbox 3.7 released! | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | An upgrade caused issues with the wiki. We are on the case" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:31:15AlexPZagor: Is it possible to rename wiki pages? should be Fuze, and maybe at the same time the P should be Plus?
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10:16:09JdGordonthe current playlist viewer is mildly broken :/
10:16:36Stummiso, fix it :p
10:17:05JdGordonactually, maybe my sim is stuffed :p
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10:43:42JdGordonAlexP: can I saw conditional %tr for manual rework to go with the playlist changes?
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10:44:39AlexPJdGordon: saw?
10:44:52JdGordonwtf? :p
10:45:07JdGordonI'm bassically finished
10:45:09AlexPand yes, sure :)
10:45:19AlexPWith the playlist bit?
10:45:30JdGordonwell the quick and dirty fix anyway, without having to rewrite the file browser code
10:45:54AlexPCool - I can try and look tonight, but I'm not around this weekend so it might have to be beginning of next week
10:46:00AlexPBut yeah, no problem
10:46:07AlexPbbl, work calls!
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12:47:45CIA-7New commit by jdgordon (r28613): Make the %tr (radio RSSI) tag work as a bar tag or as a conditional. ...
12:48:03JdGordonAlexP: ^ go nuts with the manual :D
12:49:49CIA-7r28613 build result: 60 errors, 0 warnings (jdgordon committed)
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12:57:56CIA-7New commit by jdgordon (r28614): fix reds, not so nice fiddling with simulator stubs to make it all works
12:59:50CIA-7r28614 build result: All green
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13:45:57[Saint]TheSeven: regarding FS #5111 is there a way to match the "click" from the other Nano2g to that of the other iPods in that patch?
13:46:26[Saint]comparing Nano 1 and 2G side by side, the 1st gen definitely has the better sound to it.
13:47:57[Saint]s/the other Nano2g/Nano2g/
13:51:55TheSevenfeel free to play around with the frequency and duration values
13:52:38TheSeveni tried to get the maximum possible intensity that's still perceived as a click and not a beep, i guess the 1G and OF click are less loud but a better sound
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13:58:31kugelI still have problems with firefox' html5 and the today's log page in firefox 4.0 beta
14:00:59Zagorkugel: the irc log reader?
14:01:17Zagorwhat kind of problems?
14:01:50kugelit doesn't load completely
14:02:10kugelubuntu's firefox (3.6.12) doesn't seem to have the html5.enable setting
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14:02:35Zagorsounds like they disabled push in the html5 code
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14:03:12kugelon windows I've experienced the problem with all 3.5, 3.6 and 4.0
14:03:14ZagorI've been fiddling a bit with using websockets instead of push.
14:03:18[Saint]TheSeven: I'm not sure where exactly it's being set in each piezo file, or how to match the Nano2Gs frequency to that of the other iPods...they appear to be written quite differently.
14:03:39[Saint]perhaps I just need to sleep on it.
14:03:41Zagorbut it's not working yet
14:03:41kugelit's working when I set html5.enable to false in about:config
14:04:19Zagorkugel: I don't suppose the user agent changes to reflect this?
14:04:45kugelI'm pretty sure it doesn't
14:04:53kugelbut I can't verify right now
14:05:02TheSeven[Saint]: you'll want to change piezo_start(40, 4); in piezo-nano2g.c
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14:05:54TheSevenso this is running at calc
14:06:22kugelcalc has white background!
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14:06:56TheSevenso this is running at 2500Hz (100kHz divided by 40), and runs for 4 periods, so a total of 1.6 milliseconds
14:07:52TheSeveni have no idea what the other ones are doing
14:08:22[Saint]yeah, that's the problem I'm having...I can't seem to match what you're doing with the other.
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14:10:27TheSevenIIUC it's doing 1kHz for 4 milliseconds on PP, but I can't quite believe that
14:10:52TheSevenso that would be piezo_start(100, 40);
14:11:58[Saint]what does the beep work out to?
14:12:16TheSevenis it even used somewhere?
14:12:24TheSevenhaven't heard mine beep a single time so far
14:12:50[Saint]I believe it is, though I can't say where.
14:13:21[Saint]it's supposed to be "end of playlist" etc. beep...but perhaps it's broken.
14:14:10TheSevenit would be piezo_start(44, 46); IIUC
14:14:50TheSevenoh, the non-beep one should be piezo_start(100, 4);
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14:15:32[Saint]ok...I shall try those. it just confused me that both seem to use a different system.
14:15:54[Saint]nano2g uses 2 values, and the other iPods 3 if I'm looking at the right bit.
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14:36:53[Saint]what does one need to do to upload scrobbler.log to
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14:47:52amiconnsaratoga: [19:12:24] <saratoga> since we have a very good idea which codecs will need higher boost clocks (AAC+, APE, mpegplayer)
14:48:44amiconn^ That doesn't account for the vastly variable requirements due to different sampling rate, compession level etc
14:49:15amiconnJust compare APE -c1000 32kHz mono and APE -c5000 96kHz stereo...
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16:08:38pixelmawith the change to the signal strength tag - do we need separate min/max value tags?
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16:16:03ZagorAlexP: yes you can rename. it's under "more topic actions". I've renamed it SansaFuzePlus now.
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16:21:13Kernle32DLLHi there
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16:44:50AlexPZagor: Thanks
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16:52:05CIA-7New commit by nls (r28615): libtremor: Use larger cachesize for codebook decoding on targets with 1MB codec buffer. ...
16:52:46freddybDoes any one have an objection to my fix for FS #11608? It fixed my FuzeV1 and fragilmatter's.
16:52:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:53:20freddyb*fragilematter's E200v2.
16:53:59CIA-7r28615 build result: All green
16:54:57gevaertsfreddyb: committing is probably the best way to get further testing
16:55:12*gevaerts has no idea about technical aspects though
16:56:13freddybIt just switches from synchronous mode to async when boosted.
16:56:19n1sfreddyb: funman was the one with the best knowledge about the ams specifics AFAIK but he's vanished but also IIRC the clock settings on those chips have been pingponged a lot in svn so maybe you can find something in the commit history
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17:07:39Zagorfreddyb: I suggest you write a mail on the dev list asking for opinions. if nobody objects I'll be happy to commit for you.
17:08:49gevaertsZagor: that last bit shouldn't be needed :)
17:08:58freddybI have SVN access, I just wanted to bounce it off others before I commit. I'll send an e-mail.
17:09:05Zagoroh, sorry :)
17:09:13freddybNo prob.
17:11:05Zagorwhat exactly is being decoupled by this changed? dram vs core clock?
17:11:37Zagorand does that mean we introduce waitstates?
17:13:00Buschelfreddyb: as svn is also somehow experimental and known to fail on several indivdual targets, I am leaning towards submission. but before that: did you do any short performance comparisons (e.g. via test_codec or test_mem)?
17:16:27freddybThe CPU is decoupled from the AHB bus. I'm not sure about the wait states. The spec sheet says that sync is faster in theory...
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17:19:08freddybI suspect that the boosted CPU freq was so fast that it was starving everything else on the bus. Async would scramble the odds a bit.
17:28:36n1si'm wondering if my fuze is affected too but less than others, it's shut down unexpectedly twice over the last few weeks, but it's so rare that testing will be hard
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17:29:58Buschelbut you could check whether the patch does any reproducible harm
17:30:04Buschel(which I do not expect)
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17:34:21freddybI can't even run test codec without the patch... The results are garbled.
17:35:04Buschelmaybe n1s can, his target works with svn ;)
17:37:13freddybI'm just going to commit the change. It needs to be fixed.
17:37:56n1si can test later
17:37:58CIA-7New commit by fredwbauer (r28616): FS #11608: switch cpu to async operation in boosted mode
17:39:49CIA-7r28616 build result: All green
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17:48:17gevaertsfreddyb: maybe add a note to FS #11608 asking for people to report back?
17:49:35freddybgevaerts: done.
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20:21:54BuschelS_a_i_n_t: did the gui boost stuff work for you now?
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21:11:57fmlpixelma: if I understand the tags correctly I also think that the min/max rssi tags are not necessary
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21:23:03saratogaamiconn: in the case of ape mono C1000, the CPU is boosts to full speed as it does now, and theres no effective change
21:25:41amiconnThen what's the point?
21:27:02saratogato save power when decoding formats like mp3 or flac that decode extremely quickly
21:27:28amiconnThat's what our automatic boosting/ unboosting already does
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21:28:11saratogait does, but further savings is possible on some devices if you're willing to reduce the max CPU clock speed
21:28:32saratogathis is fine for most formats except APE
21:28:49amiconnThis only applies on targets with voltage scaling - and on those, we need to extend our automatism
21:29:04saratogaalso devices with fixed memory clock
21:29:08saratogalike AMS
21:29:35saratoga(ams also has memory scaling though)
21:29:40saratogaerr voltage scaling i mean
21:29:41amiconnPerformance per MHz is constant, and as long as voltage is fixed, power consumption per MHz is also constant -> having more than two levels doesn't make sense
21:30:25saratogayeah but on targets where the performance per MHz isn't constant and the power consumption per mhz isn't constant, having a lower max clock saves power
21:31:04amiconnWith voltage scaling, switching between two frequencies with large difference is bad. On those targets, we need to do fine-grained adjustment
21:31:13amiconnAfaik we already do this on the beast now
21:31:50amiconnAnd this fine-grained adjustment needs to be automatic - assumptions about codec performance are arbitrary
21:32:00saratogafrom freddyb's test results, just dropping the max clock at (i think) constant voltage saved a good bit of power
21:32:16saratogaan automated system would be nice, but its also fairly complicated
21:32:32saratogaparticularly if its expected to work with plugins
21:32:38amiconn[21:31:10] <amiconn> Afaik we already do this on the beast now
21:33:02saratogabut no other targets?
21:33:22amiconnAn automatic system needs to measure the requirements (e.g. by watching the pcm buffer) and adjust frequencies accordingly
21:33:48saratogadoes mpegplayer use the pcm buffering system?
21:34:24amiconnNon-automatic arbitrary choice of max. clock will be far more difficult wrt plugins.
21:34:27Buschelvoltage scaling is also used on the nano 2g since a few days
21:35:03saratogathen we'll probably need a manual system for some plugins anyway
21:35:37saratogamy suggestion was to start with something simple (e.g. different boost clocks for ape then everything else), then see how much it really helps
21:35:59saratogaif that only gets us an hour of extra battery life on most targets its probably not worth reworking the boost system
21:36:04amiconnAnother measure for cpu load is the percentage of cpu time spent in sleep mode.
21:36:25saratogaalthough if it makes a big difference, an automatic system is obviously really nice to have . . .
21:36:26amiconnAlways keep sleep time a few percent of total cpu time
21:37:06amiconnIf sleep time is zero -> increase clock (up to max). If sleep time is too much -> reduce clock (until at minimum)
21:37:51amiconnWe *may* want a manual hint/ override (like autoboost for the two-point mechanism)
21:37:56saratogai don't know how that part of the code works, do you think it would be very difficult to implement?
21:38:26amiconnDepends on whether there is a high resolution timer that can be used to precisely measure sleep time percentage
21:38:27saratogaand would this replace the manual boosting for codecs, or would it only tweak the clock when explicitly boosted?
21:39:06saratogathe former might be interesting if we also allowed it to lower the clock below the current unboosted speed
21:42:40amiconnThe algorithm will probably be a bit more complex. There might be cases where the CPU is sleeping because it's waiting for some kind of i/o (e.g. LCD DMA) and there is no other thread ready to run atm, but the main thread needs to continue as fast as possible after the i/o is done
21:43:07amiconnThe scheduler should know why the cpu is sleeping
21:43:30amiconn(because of iowait, or because there is actually nothing more to do in this tick)
21:44:25amiconnOne example for this iowait situation would be plasma.rock with no music playing on targets with lcd dma
21:45:13*amiconn has an idea
21:46:30amiconnOn targets with lcd dma, plugins which both calculate and draw in the main thread with no other threads running like plasma are inefficient. They could be made more efficient if the calculation would continue while lcd dma is running
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22:20:26freddybIf I try to modify the boosting to include pclk on AMS, there are lots of clocks to adjust. Is the 'right' way to adjust them to walk through the clocks one by one and check if they're on, then adjust the frequency?
22:21:06freddybI think it could be rewritten with 31/31 and 186/62 and get some real power savings and still do everything it does now.
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22:42:11S_a_i_n_tBuschel: Changing #if 0 /******** CPUFREQ_NORMAL = 24MHz without PLL ********/ in system-pp502x.c to #if 1 /******** CPUFREQ_NORMAL = 24MHz without PLL ********/ hasn't changed the unboosted frequency to 24MHz
22:42:26S_a_i_n_tit still remains at 30MHz according to the debug screen.
22:43:38Buscheloh, that's the definition of CPUFREQ_NORMAL in target/arm/system-target.h you'll need to correct it as well
22:43:41Buschelmy fault
22:44:07amiconnThat's just a display error then, isn't it?
22:44:47BuschelI am not sure about any timers
22:45:09S_a_i_n_tBuschel: Do I need to change #define CPUFREQ_NORMAL 30000000 in target/arm/system-target.h?
22:45:13amiconnView HW info (roughly) measures the actual clock frequency (causing a short audio glitch if you do it during playback, because interrupts are disabled during test)
22:45:48amiconnBuschel: PP timers run from 1 MHz base clock, independent of CPU clock (except when running at 32 kHz)
22:45:50BuschelS_a_i_n_t: yes. the CPU is running at 24 MHz, but the definition for the display (and timers?) was still unchanged
22:46:13Buschelamiconn: good, then it's only the display that was false
22:46:46S_a_i_n_tBuschel: It may be easier if you pastbin'ed what I need to change, I'd quite like to see how much power I'm able to save.
22:46:59S_a_i_n_t(if you're able to, that is)
22:49:45BuschelCPU clocking only (but also setting max clock to 100 MHz):
22:50:53Buscheland with gui boost:
22:52:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:58:08CIA-7New commit by Buschel (r28617): Add section 'Running Time' to the manual. Fixes FS #11561.
23:00:09CIA-7r28617 build result: All green
23:01:42CIA-7New commit by Buschel (r28618): Correct supported sample rates for iPod nano 2G, at least prepares the manual for recording on this target.
23:03:30CIA-7r28618 build result: All green
23:03:41Buschelgotta get some sleep now, bye
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23:27:49alexbobPWhat's it mean if I try to resume and rockbox says "cannot access playlist control file"?
23:27:55alexbobPif I wait a few seconds and try again, it resumes fine
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23:48:37TyathalaeHello everybody ! I have a question. When I try to use command "sh" it says ROCKBOXDEV: "patch" is required for this script to work.
23:49:06RondomTyathalae: install patch
23:49:16RondomTyathalae: what distro are you using=
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23:49:34Tyathalaei am using fedora 13
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23:50:04revesI have a faw q...
23:50:05Rondomtry installing patch via, yum install patch
23:50:29Rondombut i am not sure if such a package exists in fedora, I do not use it at the moment
23:50:56revesI have ipod classic 80 G can I use it with rockbox?
23:51:16revesI haven't seen my type in the list...
23:51:21pixelmano, it only works on the players listed
23:52:11revesif I install rockbox can I go back to the original software?
23:52:31reveslet's say if it's ipod so to apple software//
23:53:08pixelmaon most of the supported players - yes (including the listed Ipods)
23:53:15SundiverTyathalae, try this sudo yum install patch
23:53:22gevaertsYou can uninstall rockbox from all supported players, and dualboot on most
23:53:36pixelmareves: well, I mean you can always go back - but you can also dual boot
23:53:38revesand I will still have the songs
23:54:57gevaertsThat depends. Installing rockbox on a mac-formatted ipod involved formatting it. In all other cases, yes
23:55:01Tyathalaeok it found an updated "patch" and it works now. Thank you Rondom and Sundiver
23:55:17revesand I will still have the songs
23:55:26revessorry for that
23:55:27revesdo u guys think that soon it will be availble also for Ipod classic?
23:55:57gevaertsWe usually don't guess such things
23:56:09gevaertsSomeone is working on it, but it's early days
23:56:11reveswhat do u mean?
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23:56:47revesit's pretty much the same as video,,,
23:56:56pixelmait's lots of work and without proper documentation it's very hard to say how hard or easy it is to write drivers
23:56:59revesby the way they look
23:57:10gevaertsit's very differnenr from the ipod video
23:57:28reveskidding dude XDD
23:57:39TheSevenit has barely anything in common
23:57:43TheSevencompletely new chipset
23:57:57TheSeventhe similarities to the ipod nano 2g are higher than to the ipod video
23:58:16revesI have to hack my ps3 and I thougt to do it with it='
23:58:44revesbut as I can see it's not gonna be in the near future...
23:58:50TheSevenps3groove hasn't even been ported to the nano2g yet, so i doubt this will run on the ipod video in the next few months
23:59:01TheSevener, ipod classic of course

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