#rockbox 2010-11-27

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#rockbox log for 2010-11-27

00:00:24	wodz	should I commit something like this in single commit or split it somehow? http://pastebin.com/ZsY1pvyL
00:01:32		Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.)
00:02:10	bertrik	this adds initial hd300 support? I don't see a problem to do it in a single commit
00:02:39	wodz	yes, this is initial hd300 support
00:02:54		Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
00:03:16	amee2k	SDRAM test shows "pass"
00:03:29	amee2k	what other tests can i run?
00:05:42	grawity	Does rockboxdev.sh allow passing options like "-j5"?
00:06:51		Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f054212055.adsl.alicedsl.de)
00:06:57	bertrik	Yes, try setting MAKEFLAGS
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00:09:07		Join eWill [0] (~chatzilla@adsl-99-135-15-238.dsl.dytnoh.sbcglobal.net)
00:09:35	eWill	I'm running the battery bench on a new Fuze v2. Does the battery need to be changed and discharged a few times before I'll get an accurate result?
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00:10:15	amee2k	hm... running the hdd test from the menu now. any idea how long this is gonna take?
00:10:57	amee2k	i'll leave it for a while... it nothing happens, i'll try putting the original firmware back on and reinstalling RB
00:11:07	bertrik	eWill, no, fully charging it once is enough
00:11:08	dfkt	eWill, a new li-ion/li-poly battery generally needs a few charge/discharge cycles before it reaches optimal performance
00:11:26	dfkt	(according to battery university)
00:11:43	grawity	What's the difference between (N)ormal and (A)dvanced builds?
00:11:51		Quit Horscht (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:12:42	dfkt	oops bertrik, think we contradict each other somewhat :)
00:13:37	gevaerts	eWill: I'd say running several battery benches in a row is the way to find out :)
00:13:53	gevaerts	grawity: Advanced asks some extra questions
00:14:04	eWill	good I idea. That's what I'm gonna do
00:14:06	amee2k	hmmm if the battery is new it'll need one full cycle so the "gas gauge" (i know awkward name) IC inside it learns the exact capacity and discharge curge
00:14:28	Torne	amee2k: the batteries in our players mostly don't have those
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00:14:51	Torne	they mostly just hae overcurrent protection and little else
00:14:59	amee2k	i'd assume the device has one if not the battery pack
00:15:01	Torne	they rely on the player hardware to charge them correctly
00:15:06	amee2k	or how else would it know the remaining capacity
00:15:13	Torne	The charge chips don't "learn" anything
00:15:30	bertrik	amee2k, from the voltage
00:15:30	Torne	the remaining capacity display is based on the theoretical discharge curve for the battery technology
00:15:35	Torne	using the voltage.
00:15:40	amee2k	oh, lol
00:16:02	amee2k	doesn't sound too accurate, but whatever makes it smaller and cheaper goes i suppose
00:16:13	Torne	laptop batteries often have clever logic inside them, but not most consumer electronics
00:16:44	grawity	sigh. "Source object <blah>/build/apps/bitmaps/native/rockboxlogo.176x54x16.o has EABI version 0, but target <blah>/build/rockbox.elf has EABI version 5"
00:16:47		Quit user890104 ()
00:16:55	Buschel	TheSeven: 200/100/25 (boost) 25/25/25 (unboost) works for a while now here. same issues with LCD though
00:17:21	gevaerts	grawity: did you build in a clean directory?
00:17:26	grawity	Yes.
00:17:32	*	grawity tries again.
00:17:58	grawity	might have done something that messed it up :/
00:18:12	grawity	Build on another box succeeded, however.
00:20:17	grawity	Now I just hope it won't die with "Incompatible version" whenever I open any plugin... I had that when I used someone else's build.
00:20:31	grawity	Can that be related to the "M" suffix in versions?
00:20:39	grawity	or was it an actual version mismatch
00:20:52	gevaerts	You get that if the main binary and the plugins don't match
00:20:57	bertrik	the "M" means you used a "modified build", not the exact SVN version
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00:22:58	grawity	ooh, it works
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00:24:29	grawity	now... when I want to build a new version (but with the exact same settings) −− do I still need a fresh build/ directory?
00:24:42	Torne	it's safest, ye
00:25:01	Torne	it may work if you just run make again, but the dependencies are not always perfect
00:25:13	grawity	mhm, thanks.
00:25:41	bertrik	I usually just svn update, then build, and make clean only if I get compile or dependency errors
00:26:42		Quit Kitar\|st (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:26:48	gevaerts	It depends on what changed
00:28:11	CIA-7	New commit by wodz (r28680): MPIO HD300 - initial commit
00:28:38		Quit Kitr88 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
00:29:26		Nick syscrash is now known as jvd (~syscrash@poipu/developer/syscrash)
00:30:00	grawity	Thanks for the help *.
00:30:02	TheSeven	Buschel: you could try some delay between LCD init and the first frame buffer transfer
00:30:24		Quit liar (Quit: Leaving)
00:30:31	grawity	For the record, r28190 on ILI9320 is annoying.
00:30:46	CIA-7	r28680 build result: 0 errors, 9 warnings (wodz committed)
00:30:51	bertrik	What is annoying about it?
00:31:32	preglow	moos: oh, i still follow progress even if i don't have time to do much work
00:32:00	wodz	any idea what this errors mean?
00:32:16	bertrik	not your fault I think
00:32:22	grawity	bertrik: The low screen contrast (in comparison to builds without that change) and no difference in the buzzing sound (which I don't seem to get, anyway).
00:32:29	amee2k	grawity: the SDRAM test checks out, but the HDD test isn't going anywhere... i think. could a bad hard drive be the cause of the issues?
00:32:39	grawity	bertrik: It's not much, I know. I'm just the type who gets annoyed by such differences
00:32:47	gevaerts	wodz: ignore that
00:33:10	grawity	Meh. As long as I can make my own builds, I can deal with it.
00:33:23	bertrik	grawity, if you see such a large difference, it may be a real issue, talk to the person who committed that
00:33:36	amee2k	errr... gevaerts :)
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00:33:49	amee2k	tab completion failure on my end
00:34:33	gevaerts	wodz: It means that either it's a new build client, or the system got upgraded. New compiler/header combinations get picky about fwrite possibly returning an error, and our tools don't typically check that.
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00:34:58	gevaerts	Every client gives these warnings once, and then never again, because the tools don't get rebuilt every time
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00:35:54	wodz	I see
00:36:08	gevaerts	amee2k: it's not impossible, but I'm not convinced. Did the snow plugin run for a while when it crashed, or did it crash immediately?
00:36:40	amee2k	gevaerts: it crashed almost instantly when i pressed the center button to start it, before i could see any actual snow
00:36:54	gevaerts	ok, that could be the disk then
00:37:01	amee2k	hm.
00:38:10	*	gevaerts really doesn't know though
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00:39:02	amee2k	its getting late... i'll try running disk dests tomorrow to see if i can confirm the disk theory
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00:41:45	Buschel	TheSeven: Here's the patch for 200/100/25 -> http://pastebin.de/12186
00:42:08	Buschel	TheSeven: it uses 200.9 MHz to be exact. gui is slow when unboosted
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00:57:31	*	TheSeven wonders what the gui needs that much power for
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00:59:10	Buschel	I think it's the screen updates that consumes the power
01:00
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01:03:07	TheSeven	hm, we might have a go at DMA then
01:03:18	eWill	If i were to reduce the C-rate for charging my Fuze v2 (say by half), would the lifetime of the battery increase greatly? (full life −− not just one charge)
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01:03:47	TheSeven	currently we aren't using DMA because we would need to keep another framebuffer copy
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01:08:13	Buschel	well, there's even enough IRAM left :)
01:08:33	bertrik	eWill, I think it may help, but no idea how much. Lowering the max charge voltage may also help (e.g. lower it from 4.2 to 4.1V)
01:08:41	Buschel	(if we would not use it for codecs)
01:09:38	Buschel	TheSeven: do you have actual number for the lcd performance? I am letting my nano doing a benchmark now
01:09:49	Buschel	battery benchmark
01:10:11	TheSeven	i remember something like 100fps boosted
01:10:20	bertrik	eWill, according to the fuzev2 config file, it has a 550 mAh capacity and it's charged at 200 mA, so we're probably not stressing it w.r.t. charge current
01:10:40	Buschel	wiki says 86.5fps. was it improved?
01:11:34	TheSeven	25.8fps full RGB, 103.5fps quarter RGB, 22.5fps full YUV, 89.5fps quarter YUV at 48MHz
01:13:07	TheSeven	51.7fps full RGB, 206.5fps quarter RGB, 51.7fps full YUV, 206.5fps quarter YUV at 192MHz
01:13:36	TheSeven	so apparently the bottleneck for 192MHz is the LCD interface and for 48MHz it's the CPU/bus/memory clock
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01:15:01	Buschel	hmm, this is about half as fast as measured before
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01:18:32	Buschel	which revision is this? (just as i am editing the wiki)
01:20:17	TheSeven	51.7fps in emBIOS using DMA
01:20:33	TheSeven	so that's definitely the interface bandwidth for the leadis lcd
01:21:04	Buschel	but with less CPU load... so, the CPU shouldn't boost due to screen updates
01:21:37	TheSeven	let me try clocking it down
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01:23:59	Buschel	shouldn't DMA also help mpegplayer? there should be more CPU left for the av-decoding then
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01:24:59	TheSeven	96MHz vs. 192MHz CPU clock didn't make a noticable difference
01:25:13	TheSeven	about 0.1% slower
01:27:44	Buschel	can you just give me the revision you've tested with? i can save the wiki update then
01:27:52	TheSeven	Buschel: 25.8MHz using DMA at 48MHz :/
01:28:06	*	TheSeven reboots to rockbox
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01:28:32	Buschel	25.8 fps or MHz?
01:28:35	TheSeven	that's r28602 with keyclick and aafonts patch applied
01:28:36	TheSeven	fps
01:28:59	TheSeven	so AHB speed is actually the bottleneck here
01:29:14	Buschel	yep. my thought, too.
01:29:36	Buschel	=memory speed
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01:30:16	TheSeven	that's a whopping 1.2MB/s
01:30:36	TheSeven	and the framebuffer was in IRAM
01:30:46	Buschel	I love the nano's memory bandwidth :)
01:31:56	Buschel	well, once i removed some of the while()-waits. it was possible to remove several of them without any visible impact (after short test)
01:32:40	TheSeven	not at 192MHz
01:32:58	Buschel	I am quite sure it worked...
01:33:03	TheSeven	back during early development when caches were disabled, this worked stable on all LCDs
01:33:09	TheSeven	but it broke as soon as we had caches
01:33:29	TheSeven	might depend on the LCD you have
01:33:52	Buschel	yes
01:34:23	TheSeven	i'm quite sure the ilitek one didn't work
01:36:36	TheSeven	lcd dma performance testing code for embios: http://pastebin.com/KsuNSsra
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01:43:50	Buschel	gotta get some sleep now, see you later
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02:04:21	eWill	What is the source file that controls the charge voltage on Fuze v2?
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02:22:55	moos	eWill: have a look at firmware/target/arm/as3525/sansa-fuzev2/powermgmt-fuzev2.c and http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/as3525/powermgmt-target.h?view=markup
02:23:38	moos	http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/as3525/sansa-fuzev2/powermgmt-fuzev2.c?view=markup
02:24:45	billenium	Hello, i have a iPod Nano 1st Gen with Rockbox on it. I haven't used it in a year, and i was going to update it with the new rockbox but i wanted to save all my music first. So when i plugged it into the computer, it said i needed to format it before use. Is there anyway to save my music now? I can listen to my music, but i cant connect it to my computer.
02:30:17	eWill	billenium: have you tried connecting in Linux?
02:33:15	billenium	No, but that requires linux xD
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02:33:37	eWill	you could use a liveCD
02:33:49	billenium	you think that'd work?
02:34:07	eWill	I'd try it. can't hurt
02:34:18	billenium	okay i will. thanks!
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02:54:45	alexbobP	anybody know the number of blue pixels on a clip+?
02:54:55	alexbobP	er, not the total number, but the number of rows?
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02:59:46	pixelma	64-16
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08:46:37	ZERO00	YO
08:46:38	ZERO00	SUP NIGGAS
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09:19:10	AlexP	ZERO00: No warnings, anything else non Rockbox related and it is a ban
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09:38:49	ZERO00	ROCKBOX?
09:38:51	ZERO00	WTF IS A ROCKBOX?
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09:59:40	Buschel	TheSeven: my local build hung up during battery bench. will need to check how stable the boosting is when combining 200MHz with 0.975V core voltage...
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10:10:50	CIA-7	New commit by Buschel (r28681): Use MEM_ALIGN_ATTR in test_mem plugin.
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10:12:57	CIA-7	r28681 build result: All green
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10:17:05	marines	is there any rss feed for commits?
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11:06:28	CIA-7	New commit by Buschel (r28682): Use CACHEALIGN_BITS to calculate CACHEALIGN_SIZE instead of directly setting it.
11:08:48	CIA-7	r28682 build result: 260 errors, 0 warnings (Buschel committed)
11:13:22	CIA-7	New commit by Buschel (r28683): Undo r28682. Bad idea...
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11:15:26	CIA-7	r28683 build result: All green
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11:18:25	JdGordon	doesnt r28672 (metadata.c changes) break tag searching for things like MPC and wavpack which we check for ape tags if the standard tags re missing?
11:19:11	JdGordon	ah, hmm... the read_ape_tags() call got moved... nasty
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12:21:57	TheSeven	Buschel (for the logs): The iPod Classic LCD is weird. 40fps, no matter how big the area to be updated is (tried from 10x10 to 320x240)
12:22:08	TheSeven	maybe it's doing vsync internally?
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12:40:21	nicklessguy	i'm having some issues with my Sansa Clip+ & 16GB microSD card. I can access the card via WindowsExplorer and use it with the OF. However, Rockbox is unable to add files from it to the Database. Under "System -> Rockbox info" it says "HD1: not present" while the "System -> Debug" can find the card. Anyone here who can help me with this?
12:42:56	bertrik	That's odd
12:43:16		Quit xxcv ()
12:43:25	bertrik	In my experience the uSD slot is identified as <microsd> or something like that, not as HD1:
12:43:41	bertrik	Can you access the uSD through the file browser on the clip+ itself?
12:44:10	nicklessguy	well, i can access it via filebrowser if i boot into the OF.
12:44:38	nicklessguy	Rockbox can access the files via Database only
12:46:40	nicklessguy	...if it was able to add the files to the Database in the first place
12:48:15	bertrik	I think the database has nothing to do with this, can you browse files in rockbox using the file browser?
12:48:52	bertrik	on the microSD card I mean
12:49:03	nicklessguy	No, can't do that
12:49:20	nicklessguy	Filebrowser works on the build-in memory only.
12:54:45	marines	don't you have <microSD1> dir?
12:55:17	nicklessguy	No
12:56:29	nicklessguy	filestructure looks like this: ##music#, ##port#, audible, audiobooks, music, podcasts, record
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12:56:59	nicklessguy	right now, there are some mp3s inside the music-folder. i copied them to the internal memory. my files on the sd-card don't show up.
12:57:35	JdGordon	how is the card partitioned and formatted?
12:58:12	nicklessguy	i tried to reformat it under windows XP as one 16GB Fat32 partition. didn't change the cluster size.
12:58:40	nicklessguy	but that didn't help. so i tried the SDFormatter tool by Panasonic(?). that didn't help either.
12:59:39	nicklessguy	oh, and the format-option of the OF didn't touch the sd-card at all. it just reformatted the internal memory.
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13:11:17	pixelma	nicklessguy: is there a difference between having the card already inserted at boot or if you replug while Rockbox is already running
13:13:29	nicklessguy	i'll have to check that.
13:16:58	nicklessguy	still no luck with that.a manual refresh of the database doesn't add the file from the card, the debugscreen shows the card as soon as i insert it, the systemscreen still tells me "hd1 not found"
13:17:08	amee2k	annoying pod is still annoying
13:17:23	nicklessguy	but as bertrik mentioned earlier, it should show up as microsd...so maybe that's misleading me
13:17:28	amee2k	badblocks is coming up empty on the drive
13:18:07	nicklessguy	the debugscreen shows microSD 0 (internal memory) and microSD 1 (sd card) properly
13:18:55	nicklessguy	maybe i have to put my files into a specific directory on the card? i files into the root folder and a MUSIC folder which was there from the beginning.
13:19:22	pixelma	that shouldn't make a difference
13:19:47	pixelma	the HD1 could simply be a problem in the language file btw.
13:23:21	pixelma	it is...
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13:24:04	nicklessguy	i didn't mention i was running Rockbox v3.7 before and upgraded to v3.7.1 this morning
13:24:39	pixelma	the "HD1" is a generic string for multivolume targets and "mSD" will only be used for e200s, c200s and Fuzes
13:24:46	pixelma	it's a bug in Rockbox
13:28:26	*	pixelma doesn't know the correct "feature" string to refer to the Clip+ in the language files though, otherwise this could be fixed in a few minutes
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13:47:25	pixelma	where are the "target" strings taken from?
13:48:08	nicklessguy	if you're asking me, i have no clue :)
13:48:36	pixelma	no, I meant the other developers :)
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13:54:56	teru	pixelma: maybe modelname in configure?
13:55:42	pixelma	sounds likely
13:57:22	CIA-7	New commit by teru (r28684): Add helper function to get index from file extension.
13:59:35	CIA-7	r28684 build result: All green
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14:01:19	pixelma	ok, looks like I'd have to add "sansaclipplus" the "mSD:" line in the LANG_DISK_NAME_MMC phrase - I can't test though, can I?
14:01:57	pixelma	in english.lang that is and well... other languages would need to be fixed too
14:04:20	*	pixelma has no time for this now anyway so it would be nice if someone else could take care of it
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14:15:21	bertrik	hm, microsd is not showing up in the file browser on my c200, but debug -> view disk info shows it
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14:25:29	nicklessguy	bertrik: but you can access the files via the database?
14:26:27	bertrik	I re-inserted and then it worked. I think the database has nothing to do with this.
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15:11:49	sampattuzzi	I'm trying to debug a problem with rockbox on my ipod where it cannot be mounted from the rockbox software in ubuntu.
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15:11:59	sampattuzzi	Any ideas what could be done to debug this?
15:12:38	amee2k	-rw-r−−r−− 1 thomas thomas 57M 2010-11-27 15:12 Desktop/ipod-badblocks
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15:12:51	sampattuzzi	I have tried dmesg and lsusb, the results can be found here: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10873?string=ubuntu+mount&project=1&type[0]=&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&reported[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
15:13:25	amee2k	gevaerts: you were right... the hard drive is screwed up
15:13:43	*	amee2k wanders off to order a flash card
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15:14:48	pamaury	bertrik: ping
15:15:53	bertrik	hi pamaury
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15:18:27	pamaury	I had a terrific night reverse engineering elftosb2 and discovered several interesting things
15:18:43		Quit teru (Quit: Quit)
15:19:55	bertrik	I've been lazy and haven't even edit the wiki yet
15:21:00	wodz	Ladies and Gentlemen we have a sound! I am proud to announce that MPIO HD300 just played it's first song - The Cream - Sunshine Of Your Love
15:21:06	pamaury	nice
15:21:35	pamaury	from the code I know that the first byte of the header are the sha-1 of some part of the header, it seems that it is the checksum of bytes starting from 'STMP' and of size 0x4C
15:21:39	pamaury	*first bytes
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15:22:21	bertrik	so this is the stuff before the chunk info blocks I guess
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15:22:55	pamaury	then the fields at offset 0x32 (size 6) and 0x5A (size 6) are really random numbers, generated from /dev/urandom
15:23:12	CIA-7	New commit by wodz (r28685): HD300 - add missing i2c initializtion.
15:23:13	bertrik	I think I remember seeing 12 bytes being read from /dev/urandom using strace
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15:23:24	bertrik	good to know
15:23:46	pamaury	byte at 0x18 and byte at 0x19 and always 1, so we have no way of knowing what it means
15:24:21	pamaury	the timestamp is actually a time stamp and the product/component versions are indeed where you find them
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15:24:41	pamaury	this leaves a few unknown fields which I can't reverse engineering for know
15:25:04	CIA-7	r28685 build result: All green
15:25:09	bertrik	wodz, I saw you planned to use the s35390 rtc driver, I wrote this for the meizus but it's quite primitive and missing some stuff IIRC (proper initialisation)
15:25:13	pamaury	also the encryption scheme is plain aes-128 but the there are two problems: 1) what is the key 2) what the IV
15:25:33	pamaury	I guess the key is the one you specifiy on the command line
15:26:00	wodz	bertrik: yes hd300 uses s35380a which is older version of s35390 but highly compatibile
15:26:13	bertrik	would be nice if we could decode something that was encoded with our key by elftosb
15:26:20	pamaury	but the IV might be tricky. My current guess is that the code uses two random numbers in the header and then encrypts the header with IV=0 and this serves as the IV for all chuncks. All chuncks are encrypted independently
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15:26:56	pamaury	yeah, actually elftosb2 contains aes-128 decrypting code is seems but it is not used and this is just the algorithm
15:27:04	bertrik	Does AES also have ECB and CBC modes?
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15:27:55	pamaury	from the code, I think it's CBC mode since there is a "RijndaelCBCMAC" string and that what the code seems to to (however reverse engineer it in details is quite tricky)
15:28:16	pamaury	I don't know how the padding is done
15:29:42	pamaury	I'm currently trying to determine to which bytes this sha1sum is refering
15:30:09	pamaury	From the code I can see the code also hashes everything so perhaps the ending signature is a sha1 one
15:30:19	pamaury	I haven't check
15:30:52	tmzt_g2root	it's an HMAC not encryption?
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15:32:04	pamaury	from the code it's really a aes encryption
15:32:42	pamaury	CBCMAC means Cipher Block Chaining Message Authentication Code
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15:37:36	pamaury	oh, field at 0x2E is indeed the number of chunks
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15:38:28	pamaury	fieldat 0x30 is always one
15:39:43	pamaury	field at 0x2C is always 6
15:44:12	pamaury	\o/ the sha1field at offset 0 is the sum from offset 0x14 to offset 0x14+0x4C=0x60, the header without the chunks
15:44:25	pamaury	I just checked on an example
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15:50:46	gevaerts	amee2k: good to know...
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16:10:26	TheSeven	apparently it had been dead for four days without me noticing...
16:11:31	amee2k	hehe
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16:48:23	wodz	bertrik: ping
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17:12:43	yorick	I just put 3.7.1 on my ipod video 30GB, but the wps refuses to be themed
17:14:12	wodz	yorick: did you upgraded from 3.6 maybe?
17:14:21	yorick	wodz: I did
17:15:11	wodz	so read release notes for 3.7 - theme syntax has changed between 3.6 and 3.7 AFAIC
17:15:53	yorick	wodz: so reinstalling the themes should work
17:16:26	wodz	updated themes (with new syntax)
17:16:49	yorick	my theme description says "Works with release 3.7"
17:17:03	wodz	so yes - this should fix this
17:17:35	yorick	tried it, same effect
17:18:24		Quit mortalscan (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
17:18:33	wodz	try do clean install (maybe backup your installation first)
17:20:00	gevaerts	yorick: is this one specific theme, or all of them?
17:20:17	yorick	gevaerts: all of them
17:23:23	yorick	gevaerts: removing the .rockbox dir and the bootloader should do the trick, right?
17:24:16	gevaerts	do the trick for what? That won't make a theme work...
17:24:27	gevaerts	Which theme are you trying?
17:24:30	yorick	rbutil wasn't recognizing it anymore :/
17:25:51	wodz	I just checked and FM is working on HD300
17:27:02	gevaerts	yorick: what exactly happens?
17:27:57		Quit user890104 ()
17:29:03	yorick	gevaerts: ok...I select a theme, but the wps is showing just the title, artist, tracklength, progress bar, and two volume bars
17:29:12	gevaerts	Which theme?
17:29:12	yorick	instead of the theme I selected
17:29:26	yorick	all of them: plans, rockboxed, centerart2
17:29:34	yorick	fold
17:29:36	yorick	unicatcher
17:29:53	wodz	recording should work too :-)
17:31:09	yorick	hmm..it just started working
17:31:48	yorick	(on rockboxed)
17:32:54	yorick	it looks like rockboxed is fine, and the others are all broken
17:34:32	Dreamxtreme	TheSeven ???
17:35:08	gevaerts	yorick: plans works for me
17:35:49	yorick	gevaerts: also, the themes that don't work have their contents starting somewhere in the center
17:36:00	TheSeven	Dreamxtreme: pong
17:36:38	Dreamxtreme	yo im just working out a few things and just want to ask how long it will be before any kind of port for the classic
17:37:08	TheSeven	a few months i think
17:37:23	TheSeven	depends on how usable the port should be
17:37:23	Dreamxtreme	O
17:37:27	gevaerts	yorick: try resetting your settings. Maybe some of the "broken" themes just don't specify everything they need, and one or two settings are wrong for them
17:37:45	Dreamxtreme	well me i mean even the unusable ports
17:37:55	yorick	gevaerts: my settings were all reset with the reinstall
17:38:11	Dreamxtreme	you know day 1 of the port lol
17:38:39	gevaerts	yorick: all I know is that I installed 3.7.1 on my ipod and then installed the plans theme on it, and it works
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17:39:29	TheSeven	day one of something that boots to the main menu? hm, that might be a bit earlier
17:39:42	Dreamxtreme	yea
17:39:51	Dreamxtreme	so i can help with it
17:39:58	yorick	gevaerts: it works, but the wps is ugly
17:40:03	TheSeven	but i don't think i'll get music playback and hard disk access going this year
17:40:13	gevaerts	yorick: people uploading ugly themes is not a bug
17:40:14	yorick	and very unlike the preview
17:40:43	Dreamxtreme	so day 1 will before 2011
17:40:50	Dreamxtreme	*be
17:40:53	Dreamxtreme	ok
17:41:01	gevaerts	Dreamxtreme: he didn't say that
17:41:08	AlexP	maybe
17:41:12	AlexP	It is impossible to say
17:41:17	Dreamxtreme	yes
17:41:18	gevaerts	yorick: So by "it works", you mean "it doesn't work"?
17:41:18	AlexP	No ETAs
17:41:18	Dreamxtreme	i know
17:41:21	Dreamxtreme	maybe
17:41:45	AlexP	It'll happen when it does, if it does
17:41:55	TheSeven	well, the "day one" thing is just a matter of copying a bunch of code from embios
17:42:04	yorick	gevaerts: it "works", but the actual theme is not different from the empty theme
17:42:37	AlexP	yorick: gevaerts is a core dev, he knows what themes should do :)
17:42:58	gevaerts	yorick: if you get the built-in default theme (which is not ugly, by the way, I like it a lot) instead of the theme you load, that means it doesn't work
17:43:21	gevaerts	And as I said, that one works for me, so you must be doing something different
17:43:30	*	yorick will make a screendump
17:48:14	yorick	gevaerts: http://imgur.com/MLBie.png <−− I get this
17:48:32	mt	Buschel, Hi. Do you know a linux app for comparing wav files ?
17:48:33	gevaerts	yes, I don't
17:48:43	gevaerts	I know what the default wps looks like
17:48:50	Dreamxtreme	ok thx TheSeven i'll have the ipod next week at some point
17:49:08	Dreamxtreme	so any testing and bug report ii can do will
17:49:20	Dreamxtreme	* I
17:50:05	yorick	gevaerts: what could possibly be wrong?
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17:51:23	gevaerts	yorick: you did a clean install of 3.7.1 (which I assume means you verified there was no .rockbox directory), and then you installed the plans theme straight from themes.rockbox.org?
17:51:37	yorick	gevaerts: I installed it straight from rbutil
17:52:03	*	yorick will get it from http
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17:52:42	wodz	hmm i2c-s5l8700.h and i2c.h provide incompatibile prototypes. Don't we have some universal i2c interface?
17:53:26	TheSeven	i don't think any cross-target code is doing I2C
17:55:22	pamaury	bertrik: the more I look at the code of elftosb2, the more horrible it gets; seems that the code supports several encryption mode: ECB, CBC and another unknown mode
17:55:23	wodz	sure it is - we have WM codecs in various targets
17:55:55	tmzt_g2root	and radio?
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17:56:16	wodz	yes TEA chip is quite widespread
17:56:47	TheSeven	wodz: the wolfson codecs use a target-provided wmcodec_write function that calls the target's I2C driver
17:57:16	wodz	that's true
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17:58:51	wodz	so this generally a bug that drivers in firmware/driver/rtc/ depends on target specific i2c routines
17:59:04	wodz	s/this/this is/
17:59:21	TheSeven	we could also consider target-dependent I2C a design flaw
17:59:33	TheSeven	there isn't really a good reason for that
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18:00:28	wodz	TheSeven: right but who is going to clean this up?
18:00:37	TheSeven	mr. someone :)
18:00:50	Buschel	mt: no, sorry. I am one of those windows users ;)
18:01:33	Buschel	TheSeven: the nano hung up again after ~3h with 1.0V and 200MHz
18:01:44	Buschel	maybe 1.0V isn't enough...
18:01:45	yorick	gevaerts: it works directly from themes.rockbox.org, thanks
18:01:52	n1s	mt: i wrote a super simple app that just prints the diff sample vs sample from two wav files if you are interested
18:02:02	mt	Buschel, :) .. thanks anyway.
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18:02:30	TheSeven	Buschel: mine seems to be fine, and the 1.0V undervolting has been in SVN for months
18:02:43	mt	n1s, That'd be nice ! (I found scilab but I would like to try app)
18:02:56	TheSeven	i haven't heard of problems so far, but maybe people just reboot, retry, and ignore it because it apparently was a fluke
18:02:57	bertrik	wodz, hi
18:03:19	Buschel	TheSeven: I have raised to clock from 192 to 200 MHz. mine ran fine with 0.975 V with 192 MHz for quite some time
18:03:38	TheSeven	ah, right
18:03:51	TheSeven	which makes me think that there might be a reason that apple chose 192MHz
18:03:57	Buschel	yep, maybe
18:04:01	wodz	bertrik: what initializes rtc chip on meizu? bootloader?
18:04:03	n1s	mt: http://pastebin.ca/2003788
18:04:16	TheSeven	it could be possible that the memory is running at 24MHz and doesn't like 25
18:05:18	Buschel	lots of possibilities ;) for now I did just restarted it w/o a battery bench to check whether the plugin impacts the fault (which is quite unlikely)
18:05:18	bertrik	wodz, the meizu haven't gotten any further than just bootloaders, so yes, the bootloader :)
18:05:30	mt	n1s, Thanks!
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18:06:19	bertrik	TheSeven, indeed we have a lot of different but very similar i2c implementations
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18:08:14	bertrik	and a function like usb_init_device is defined is a lot of target specific header files
18:08:30	wodz	implementation is not a problem unless it is wrapped and conforms to some generic interface
18:08:38	TheSeven	Buschel: could the battery voltage (=> Vcore stability?) be related? I usually test at fairly high charge levels
18:09:09	Buschel	TheSeven: this happened at high level (~70-80%)
18:10:04	bertrik	TheSeven, and there is not even a convention about what an I2C address is (8-bit including R/W, or 7 bit), so we have silly defines in radio code to define the i2c address with a shift by 1 or not, depending on the target
18:10:33	TheSeven	that seriously needs a cleanup
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18:12:30	bertrik	and there is also no real serial port API
18:13:26	bertrik	we have firmware/drivers/serial.c which is a weird mix of target drivers, button driver, serial port printf formatter and IAP autobaud code
18:13:51	*	pamaury wonders how such a mix is possible
18:14:13	gevaerts	pamaury: it wasn't easy :)
18:15:14	pamaury	I don't want to look at it
18:20:22	tmzt_g2root	IAP?
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18:22:27	TheSeven	tmzt_g2root: ipod accessory protocol
18:22:44	tmzt_g2root	ah, did that ever get supported on sansa (with an adapter)?
18:22:55	bertrik	no
18:23:22	tmzt_g2root	even the simple protocol?
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18:26:25	pamaury	bertrik: field at 0x28 is the number of keys
18:27:54	pamaury	this is a nightmare to reverse engineer as there are severals encryption keys !
18:28:26	pamaury	hopefully, the fuze+ firmware only uses one
18:29:37	Buschel	TheSeven: I'll charge the nano again and use the "standard" 192 Mhz with my good old 0.975V core voltage. only change: 24 MHz unboosted. let's see whether this works
18:32:39	pamaury	I don't which compiler they used for elftosb2 but it must be crappy, there are loops with basically empty body :o
18:32:43	pamaury	*don't know
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18:52:50	pamaury	bertrik: the part of the file between the end of chunk descriptors and the actual data has to do with the keys but I'm unsure how exactly.
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18:53:48	bertrik	yeah, I noticed this part seems to get a bit bigger when specifying the zero-key
18:54:55	pamaury	well, I don't really what is going one. For each key of the set, it seems the code create a cbc mode aes encrypter, feed it with the header, then print the content at this place of the file, and then uses the random value of the header,... well this gets nasty :)
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18:55:58	pamaury	on the other hand, if there are really using cbc mode and the key is the one you specify on the command line, this is pretty stupid since you can start decrypting at any point in cbc_mode
18:56:03	pamaury	*they
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19:05:57	*	TheSeven wonders if "ldrpc cond=eq @ Now <64 bytes to go." in memset-arm.S is correct
19:06:03	TheSeven	the comment suggests it isn't
19:06:38	TheSeven	and it causes dead code IIUC, which also points towards it being a bug
19:07:03	TheSeven	oh, nvm
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19:58:00	peque	hi all
19:58:21	peque	I would like to know if I can install RockBox in my iPod
19:58:33	peque	but I'm not sure which iPod do I have
19:58:41	peque	:S
19:59:11	peque	Rhythmbox says it's model xA978
19:59:20	peque	thanks in advance for your help :)
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20:00:02	gevaerts	peque: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1353 should be able to help
20:03:00	peque	thanks, gevaerts, it's a 3rd gen. iPod nano
20:03:09	peque	is it supported?
20:03:16	alexbobP	amazing, you can google that model number and you get a dozen results telling you it's a 3rd gen nano!
20:03:21	alexbobP	oh
20:03:23	alexbobP	you beat me to it XD
20:03:43	*	gevaerts looks at the rockbox homepage
20:03:46	alexbobP	peque: sadly nano is only supported up to 2g :(
20:03:49	alexbobP	http://www.rockbox.org/
20:03:54	gevaerts	No, the 3rd gen nano isn't supported
20:04:01	alexbobP	but on the bright side I just rooted my android phone
20:04:10	alexbobP	so at least one of us is gonna be having fun with open source software
20:04:44	peque	sad to hear that... :(
20:04:49	peque	anyway thanks for your help :)
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20:06:51	peque	by the way, installing RockBox will allow me to play ogg files?
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20:08:48	alexbobP	peque: yeah
20:10:19	peque	alexbobP: is there any planned work for supporting next nano gens?
20:10:45	alexbobP	peque: I'm not a rockbox dev
20:10:51	peque	oks
20:10:53	alexbobP	peque: but what I can tell you is, that device has been out for a good long time
20:10:54	peque	:)
20:11:03	gevaerts	peque: there are no plans. People do things if and when they feel like it
20:11:14	alexbobP	peque: if you want to see rockbox on it, give some nano 3gs to some hackers to get htem motivated
20:11:52	peque	gevaerts: sure, but perhaps somebody already started working on it
20:11:56	peque	and I could help testing
20:12:02	peque	alexbobP: sure ;)
20:14:38	alexbobP	peque: perhaps... but I haven't heard anything about it...
20:15:19	peque	oks, I'll keep an eye on "Unstable ports" :)
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20:22:33	peque	alexbobP, gevaerts: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodNano3GPort
20:23:16	gevaerts	Yes, that's an accurate summary
20:23:20	AlexP	alexbobP: Getting people devices isn't the problem
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20:23:34	AlexP	alexbobP: People having the time, skills and motivation is the problem
20:23:54	peque	AlexP: wish I had skills ;)
20:23:59	AlexP	:)
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20:24:21	alexbobP	AlexP: I think the devices are hte motivation! if you already have a player,then you will want it rooted...
20:24:27	AlexP	Not at all
20:24:37	alexbobP	okay, how about bounties then?
20:24:41	AlexP	If an existing dev wants a device, we can get it for him
20:24:46	AlexP	or her
20:24:59	AlexP	bounties not much either
20:25:03	gevaerts	alexbobP: if you have a player, and you care for that player, you'll want rockbox on it
20:25:04	AlexP	People do it for fun
20:25:15	gevaerts	If you care for a player, chances are you have one of them
20:25:19	AlexP	And if you want to pay people to do it, be prepared for a big bill
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20:25:28	AlexP	Skilled hackers don't come cheap
20:25:38	AlexP	(except gevaerts :))
20:25:58	*	gevaerts isn't skilled, so that doesn't apply to him at all!
20:26:05	AlexP	ah, lucky escape :)
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20:37:52	peque	well, must leave
20:37:52	peque	thanks for your help and congratulations for this project! :)
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20:53:44	nay1	hi everybody! i tryed find a solution by myself, but i failed :P i use rockbox on my iPod nano 2G and today i recived an "iHome" dock... how should i set my conf to let it work with the dock (line-out)?
20:57:04	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:01:44	nay1	no one know hot to set an iPod to work with an apple dock (line-out) without appearing the USB icon on the screen?
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21:05:55	bertrik_	if it's just line-out that you need, then that shouldn't be too hard to add to rockbox
21:07:03	nay1	hi, i tried tuning ON the "accessory power supply" and the "line-out" option...but it doesen't work.....
21:07:32	Torne	what do you mean by doesn't work, specifically?
21:07:35	Torne	no sound?
21:07:38	Torne	controls don't work?
21:09:45	nay1	if i set the "charge wile connected through USB" ON it will play (i can hear the musich from the iHome) for a second, then a USB icon appear on the screen and the music stops
21:10:07	Torne	the dock has a USB connection, then, and the ipod's going into usb mode..
21:10:15	Torne	hold menu while you plug it in, same as with a PC
21:10:16	nay1	idem if i set OFF
21:10:47	Torne	this is nothing to do with the charging setting. when you plug in a usb connection it goes into USB mode, unless you hold menu.
21:12:17	nay1	it works! :D i forgot that holding MENU wile connecting stops the USB mode...i stopped using the USB mode when it disappeared in the system setting menu :P
21:12:50	nay1	thanks! if you'll pass from turin (Italy) i'll offer you a beer :D
21:12:52	Torne	there's never been a setting for that
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21:15:46	nay1	there wasn't a disk-mode option, a HID option and a USB-mode one? ...i actually have bad memory ....
21:15:46	nay1	ps: i didn't find this info [hold menu] easily on the site, so thanks
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21:20:01	Torne	It's in the quickstart section of the manual,
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22:03:31	csh_	I want to develop rockbox plugin, but I have some questions. my plug-in will be libmodplug based. can anyone answer my questions?
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22:06:57	csh_	how can I debug the rockbox code since the built code will run on a different platform?
22:07:00	TheSeven	apparently ipod classic MMC bus width is 8 bits
22:07:25	TheSeven	csh_: rockbox has some logging facilities
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22:08:01	TheSeven	and on some targets, you could possibly single-step things through a GDB stub, but IIRC there are very few of those, and they're very old
22:08:56	csh_	normally I use eclipse cdt, isn't it possible to debug the code row by row using such an ide?
22:09:32	csh_	eclipse cdt also uses gdb
22:10:02	TheSeven	possibly if running in the simulator, but not on a real device
22:10:29	TheSeven	is there any particular reason why you want to start yet another mod player port?
22:10:41	TheSeven	there already are at least two of them IIRC
22:10:59	csh_	what is the simulator of rockbox?
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22:11:31	TheSeven	it's basically rockbox compiled for x86 with some basic hardware simulation, to allow debugging codecs, plugins, ...
22:11:50	TheSeven	and of course to allow users to try out rockbox before installing it on their device
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22:12:28	csh_	by the way, what is IIRC?
22:12:40	TheSeven	"if i remember correctly"
22:13:00	csh_	I have one last question
22:13:23	csh_	how can I understand the internals of plug-in system of rockbox?
22:13:40	TheSeven	there is a bit of documentation on the wiki, but sadly not much
22:13:51	csh_	I compiled libmodplug, and I can generate PCM data with libmodplug
22:14:00	TheSeven	reading the source code of other plugins might be the best source of information
22:14:24	TheSeven	does libmodplug need floating point arithmetic or malloc?
22:14:33	csh_	yes
22:14:34	TheSeven	if yes, you'll probably have to refactor a lot of things
22:14:52	csh_	why? it is also c++ code
22:15:00	TheSeven	urgh.
22:15:13	csh_	can't I compile it for arm?
22:15:25	csh_	I want to use it on rockbox
22:15:31	TheSeven	because those processors usually don't have a hardware floating point unit, software floating point is probably to slow, and because rockbox has no malloc
22:16:14	TheSeven	you can of course implement your own malloc pool, but most rockbox devices don't have a memory management unit, so memory fragmentation will probably become a problem
22:16:25	TheSeven	also, does libmodplug run with ~500KB of RAM?
22:16:46	csh_	I don't know
22:16:49	AlexP	Rockbox isn't c++ also :)
22:16:54	TheSeven	and making C++ code work together with rockbox nicely might be tricky
22:17:03	csh_	if I have a compiled code for arm, can't I link it to rockbox plugin?
22:17:23	csh_	using gnu linker
22:17:36	csh_	and a header to use the compiled code
22:17:43	TheSeven	you'll have to provide all the APIs it needs
22:18:03	TheSeven	i.e. map them to the rockbox apis
22:19:05	csh_	so, since gcc has its own malloc, etc, it can compile the code to arm processor and other processors
22:19:24	csh_	and I can link the compiled code to plugin that I will develop
22:19:37	AlexP	You know Rockbox isn't linux right?
22:20:10	csh_	but why we use gcc or cygwin?
22:20:38	csh_	if it isn't linux based, which platform will I compile it for?
22:20:55	AlexP	Rockbox
22:21:12	csh_	does gcc support rockbox platform?
22:21:23	AlexP	it doesn't have to
22:21:30	AlexP	Someone else needs to explain this :)
22:21:40	csh_	please :)
22:22:09	csh_	should I use gcc that supports rockbox platform?
22:22:21	TheSeven	there is no such thing
22:22:28	TheSeven	csh_: if you want to know what APIs are available, look here: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/plugin.h
22:22:37	AlexP	You just use the appropriate gcc for the architecture
22:22:49	TheSeven	you can't call anything that isn't either in there, or provided by your code
22:23:35	csh_	thanks TheSeven and AlexP
22:23:46	csh_	architecture is ok, but platform?
22:23:51	AlexP	tools/rockboxdev.sh will build the cross compilers
22:24:23	csh_	so it will build its own compiler
22:24:28	AlexP	no, we use gcc
22:24:31	TheSeven	csh_: the platform you're compiling for is just a matter of the libraries you are linking with :)
22:24:36	AlexP	but e.g. gcc-arm-eabi
22:24:42	AlexP	the platform isn't important
22:24:49	AlexP	see what TheSeven said
22:25:25	TheSeven	and while you e.g. have glibc on linux, you have that thing i linked above on rockbox
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22:28:15	csh_	rockboxdev.sh builds its own cross compilers isn't this so? therefore, the code should be compiled with that cross compiled, and I can't link my binary file compiled for arm processor using gcc on linux
22:28:41	AlexP	rockboxdev just builds a specific version of gcc with perhaps a couple of patches
22:28:56	AlexP	You can't link as Rockbox is not linux
22:29:20	TheSeven	that's not entirely true
22:29:22	csh_	so I should modify libmodplug so much
22:29:32	AlexP	TheSeven: Sorry, please correct :)
22:29:52	TheSeven	you still link the files, but not against a standard libc like the ones linux has
22:30:09	AlexP	Yes, that's what I meant - sorry for not being clear
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22:31:03	TheSeven	csh_: in theory, you can build rockbox with any C compiler. rockboxdev.sh just builds one that has been thoroughly tested to work well, because there are lots of bugs and incompatiblities in all the C compilers out there
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22:31:52	TheSeven	if you compile C++ code with an arm-eabi compiler, and use the rockbox plugin api (with maybe some C++-specific things changed in the headers, especially "extern" keywords), that might work
22:32:53	TheSeven	(assuming that the C++ gcc doesn't generate some calls to functions that we don't have)
22:33:45	csh_	can't I use float and double? if so, can't I write float and double classes to do that arithmetic?
22:33:47	bertrik	pamaury, I update the SbFileFormat wiki page a bit
22:33:57	TheSeven	you might have to statically link parts of libstdc++, and watch out that the parts you use aren't using any other unimplemented APIs themselves or do syscalls
22:34:19	TheSeven	while all this might work in theory, it's probably not something you'll want to deal with
22:35:32	csh_	I understood. thank you very very much for the information TheSeven and AlexP
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22:36:40	csh_	I hope to listen to my Amiga mods using modplug on my ipod :)
22:36:52	TheSeven	there are already two mod players for rockbox
22:37:03	TheSeven	i'm not sure if they are in svn or just patches on flyspray
22:37:14	AlexP	One of each I think
22:37:26	csh_	but modplug is very different
22:37:35	TheSeven	yeah, IIRC the codec is committed, and the plugin is on FS
22:37:51	TheSeven	what's so different about it?
22:38:18	csh_	it plays lots of kinds of mod files most accurately
22:38:35	csh_	and its quality is very high
22:38:55	csh_	modplug is the most excellent mod player that i have seen
22:38:56	TheSeven	you could just try one of the existing ones and see if you notice the difference then
22:39:33	TheSeven	csh_: and thus probably one of the more performance and especially memory consuming ones
22:39:52	TheSeven	(which means it isn't really suited for these devices with very limited resources)
22:39:52	csh_	the default one plays some mods a little wrongly
22:40:11	AlexP	Rockbox runs on really very limited targets - slow cpu, small memory, no fpu, no mmu, ...
22:40:35	TheSeven	well, you can probably just forget about mod on lowmem targets
22:40:58	TheSeven	csh_: which player do you have?
22:41:04	csh_	but mod files can be listened even on 286 pcs
22:41:09	AlexP	yeah, but even our "high" mem targets aren't exactly awash with mem for someone thinking in PC terms
22:41:34	TheSeven	AlexP: well, I think one could implement a very decent mod player on e.g. the beast :)
22:41:35	csh_	I don't know which player I have on Rockbox
22:41:40	csh_	the default one
22:41:46	AlexP	TheSeven: Yes, that is rather an exception :)
22:41:48	TheSeven	i meant which physical device you have :)
22:41:56	csh_	ipod nano
22:42:02	csh_	1st generation
22:42:02	TheSeven	first or second generation?
22:42:13	TheSeven	well, that thing has an 80MHz CPU IIRC, and 32MB of RAM
22:42:20	AlexP	dual 80 MHz
22:42:34	csh_	it is enough to play mods
22:42:41	TheSeven	can our mod players even utilize dualcore CPUs?
22:42:48	AlexP	no idea
22:43:13	TheSeven	csh_: that highly depends on the quality and poliphony you want to achieve
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22:43:29	TheSeven	polyphony*
22:43:30	bertrik	Basically all other audio file formats we supports can be "streamed", so we only need to consider a relatively small part of the audio file at any time. With .mod, basically the entire file has to be preloaded
22:43:40	csh_	I listened my mod files on my pentium 75mhz in the past
22:43:48	csh_	its memory was 8mb
22:43:54	AlexP	great, but this is directly comparable
22:43:58	AlexP	*isn't
22:44:06	csh_	hmm
22:44:12	TheSeven	bertrik: that could be considered a design flaw of rockbox though
22:44:39	TheSeven	if the mod plugin grabs the audio buffer there won't be many files that are to big for an ipod
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22:45:05	AlexP	I thought it did? The codec one at least
22:45:13	AlexP	Could well be talking out of my arse though :)
22:45:19	TheSeven	well, if you would implement a dedicated mod player firmware, I think an ipod should be able to keep up with such an old PC
22:46:07	csh_	the problem may be float numbers
22:46:23	TheSeven	i wouldn't expect mod players to use floating point a lot
22:47:43	csh_	i should check it, anyway a solution can be found. thanks again for all the answers
22:47:51	TheSeven	i think you can roughly compare the architecture rockbox is using with windows 3.1
22:48:21	TheSeven	apart from the fact that at least some CPUs already had an FPU back then
22:51:32	csh_	that performance will be enough i think
22:52:57	TheSeven	yeah, probably, if the firmware is designed for playing mod files :)
22:53:42	csh_	hmm
22:54:20	TheSeven	rockbox was designed for files that can be streamed though. most of this problem can be circumvented, but what remains are memory fragmentation issues that arise as soon as you use malloc
22:54:35	csh_	so the other services use the processor power, don't they?
22:54:49	TheSeven	they shouldn't use much
22:55:44	csh_	so i can use that great cpu power for modplug to listen to mods :)
22:55:50	TheSeven	as you have seen there are mod players for rockbox. i don't know anything about their inaccuracies. fixing them may or may not use way more processing power or memory
22:56:50	TheSeven	while it might be possible to play mod files with the resources we have perfectly well, i don't think modplug was designed with that in mind
22:57:00	Torne	an 80MHz ARM7 is not really "great cpu power"
22:57:05	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:57:26	TheSeven	it's not that bad compared to a 286 though :)
22:57:42	Torne	a 286 is only going to play the same things our existing plugin does :)
22:57:53	csh_	is 75mhz pentium powerful than arm7?
22:57:59	Torne	csh_: vastly
22:58:08	Torne	even mroe so if floating point is involved
22:58:38	Torne	but even for integer arithmetic, even an old x86 at that speed will outperform ARM7 by several times
22:58:59	Torne	for floating point, it'll be orders of magnitude faster
22:59:04	csh_	modplug player works on pentium 75 excellently with its gui on windows 95 without any problem
22:59:10	TheSeven	i don't know any benchmarks regarding this, but from what I know about the architectures I would think that your pentium machine could possibly be similar to one of the newer rockbox devices with 200MHz+ ARM9e cores
22:59:33	TheSeven	(assuming you don't use floating point)
22:59:35	Torne	csh_: yes, but that computer is probably a good five times faster than your ipod, in real terms
23:00
23:00:12	Torne	and even though the ipod has a generous amount of memory, the memory is not very fast
23:00:40	csh_	hmm
23:01:18	Torne	if you want to be able to play stuff more complex than the four channel mods that already (mostly) work in our existing plugin, on a nano1g, you are likely to have to be very careful about how you optimise the decoder
23:01:35	Torne	on a player witha more powerful CPU a straight port of a PC mod decoder is more likely to run decently with complex modfiles
23:01:55	bertrik	What is the CPU intensive part of a .mod player? I can only imagine the variable rate playback resampling
23:01:58	Torne	as has been mentioned, there is at least one attempt to do this already in teh patch tracker
23:02:11	Torne	which can play many more formats than the one in the current code
23:02:18	Torne	you should probably look at that first
23:02:49	Torne	bertrik: mixing 64 channels with effects can be quite cpu intensive ;)
23:04:29	csh_	so shouldn't we use libmodplug with rockbox?
23:05:02	csh_	it really plays the mods excellently
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23:05:39	Torne	it's C++ code, and it's likely to use dynamic allocation fairly heavily. both of those are a huge porting problem, as people have explained
23:05:41		Quit nicklessguy (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
23:05:52	Torne	you probably want to check if it uses floating point, because if so then that's a third problem :)
23:05:52	csh_	most of it is c code
23:06:03	csh_	it has a little c++ code
23:06:21	csh_	i can convert them to c code
23:06:23	Torne	and even if all of those things are okay, then it's entirely possible that on your hardware, it will work worse than the existing mod decoder
23:06:35	Torne	in terms of performance
23:06:48	Torne	it might well be a better quality decoder but that doesn't mean it's going to run fast enough
23:07:09		Quit InsDel (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:07:34	Torne	so, i would suggest you experiment with the work people have already done first
23:07:42	Torne	and see what the performance is like
23:07:57	Torne	even if it's not based on the decoder you prefer, it will give you some idea
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23:09:16	Torne	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8806 <- this is the patch(es) for a mikmod port
23:10:20		Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
23:11:42	csh_	I will look at the patches and try to develop modplug based plugin
23:11:45	Torne	there is lots of discussion there about how to buffer stuff in memory
23:12:12	Torne	which is equally relevant to any decoder
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23:13:23	bertrik	I think the patches don't handle 64-channel mods with effects
23:14:20	Torne	bertrik: it does, yes
23:14:25	bertrik	oh cool
23:14:26	Torne	IT format has 64 real channels, 256 virtual
23:14:30	Torne	and mikmod plays IT
23:15:00	Torne	the codec version will undoubtedly fail to load such files unless they are very short, though :)
23:15:05	Torne	the plugin version should work, i guess.
23:15:09	Torne	up to the size of ram
23:15:48	csh_	libmodplug has lots of floats and doubles
23:15:59	*	TheSeven complains about apple using obfuscated function names in debug strings!
23:16:06	csh_	everywhere in the code
23:16:13	Torne	csh_: right. so that's guaranteed not to work on rockbox, then
23:16:17	TheSeven	csh_: you need to get rid of every single one of them.
23:16:36	Torne	so, that's almost certainly a terrible starting point, i'm afraid, you would want to start from an integer decoder
23:16:44	TheSeven	do we have any target with an FPU btw?
23:16:50	Torne	TheSeven: beast
23:16:51	AlexP	gigabeat S IIRC
23:17:04	Torne	has VFPv2, which is only slightly crippled and crappy
23:17:06	TheSeven	hm, so that's the ultimate target?
23:17:13	Torne	pretty much
23:17:32	Torne	if we actually used the VFP then it would be the fastest target by far
23:17:33	AlexP	Except for its fucking retarded OF bootloader
23:17:36	TheSeven	one day the ipod nano 4g might be similar
23:17:50	Torne	AlexP: there is that :)
23:21:01		Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:22:28	csh_	if the target mp3 player has an fpu, can libmodplug be compiled without any problem? :)
23:23:48	Torne	I don't think we set up the FPU on the beast at all
23:23:56	Torne	it's probably not usable without some minor bootstrap changes :)
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23:24:24	Torne	we don't ahve any support for floating point currently, even on hardware that has an FPU
23:24:48	csh_	ok,
23:24:54	csh_	i will use mikmod :)
23:25:42	csh_	where can i find it to use with rockbox?
23:26:41	Torne	i linked it above
23:26:44	Torne	FS #8806
23:26:49	csh_	ok, thanks
23:30:17	csh_	by the way thanks for all the information
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23:40:51	bertrik	pamaury, maybe I should commit my sbinfo app so you can add the stuff you discovered to it?
23:43:12		Quit clone4crw (Remote host closed the connection)
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23:52:51	pamaury	bertrik: yes definitely
23:55:07		Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
23:57:49	CIA-7	New commit by gevaerts (r28686): Update build system cost estimates

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