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#rockbox log for 2010-11-28

00:05:16BuschelTheSeven: the nano hung up again with 192/96/24 and 24/24/24 after three hours.
00:05:19 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
00:05:49TheSevenhad you been doing the exact same thing?
00:05:58TheSevenmaybe there's just a bad music file at that point?
00:08:05Buschelafter reset it resumed different files. so, i don't think that's the cause.
00:10:27 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection)
00:11:57 Nick Curulan is now known as Zarggg (
00:14:14Buschelhopefully this is not another effect that I am experiencing...
00:15:15BuschelI'll just keep LCD on now to see whether there is some data abort or if it is just hanging
00:18:15CIA-7New commit by moos (r28687): rbutil: Fix typos in french translation plus some minor changes (fix few typos on source strings too while I was here).
00:20:48CIA-7r28687 build result: All green
00:21:58pamaurybertrik: I update the wiki with what I known about encryption
00:22:38pamauryTomorrow I'll attach some programs I wrote (including your which I slightly modified)
00:23:04 Quit Dreamxtreme (Quit: There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.)
00:25:01pamaurygevaerts: update on FS #11774, perhaps we should consider committing
00:26:11 Join Dreamxtreme [0] (~Dre@
00:26:52 Join StrangeCharm [0] (~StrangeCh@dynamic-oit-pu-dormnet-bb-d-186.Princeton.EDU)
00:26:55 Quit Kitar|st (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:28:42StrangeCharmDoes Rockbox need to use data written to the HDD on an iPod 4g, or does it run completely from the firmware chip?
00:29:08gevaerts"firmware chip"?
00:30:41gevaertsRockbox always install to disk. The bootloader is installed to flash on some targets (but not on the old ipods)
00:30:58 Quit pamaury (Quit: - Discuter simplement. Partout.)
00:31:08StrangeCharmgevaerts, sorry, i'm not totally savvy with how ipods boot. more plainly stated: what effect would formatting the hdd have on rockbox's operation?
00:31:23gevaertsyou'd have to reinstall
00:31:24 Join Kitar|st [0] (
00:32:11StrangeCharmgevaerts, so it's not possible to have an ipod which both runs rockbox, and can be used as a bootable hdd for a regular computer??
00:32:41gevaertsThat doesn't follow
00:32:50gevaertsThat might be possible, but it might be a bit tricky
00:33:08StrangeCharmwouldn't both the rockbox and the regular bootloader need to live at the very start of the chip?
00:33:56gevaertsAs far as I know (but I might be wrong), you can put anything you like in the code bit of the MBR
00:34:14gevaertsthe ipod doesn't use the MBR for booting, it only looks at the first partition
00:34:31gevaerts(which is of type 0, which confuses some partitioning tools)
00:34:32StrangeCharmon a 4g, the rockbox bootloader is installed to flash, right? if the first partition isn't in a format it understands, will it look for another partition to boot from?
00:34:58gevaertsno, the rockbox bootloader is installed somewhere in the Apple firmware partition
00:35:23StrangeCharmwhich is the first partition on the mbr, right?
00:35:58gevaertsNote that that's *not* the partition you usually see. The partition with the FAT filesystem where you store your files is the second one
00:36:07StrangeCharmbut if i wanted to boot a regular computer from the ipod's disk, wouldn't the regular boot loader need to be installed to the first hdd?
00:36:20TheSevenyou mean the first partition? no
00:36:40 Quit {-phoenix-} (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:36:42TheSevenit needs to be installed to the MBR and possibly to the *active* partition (which can by any one)
00:37:48StrangeCharmso, if i installed grub to the mbr, i could tell it to boot from -say- the second partition, while rockbox would still boot ok, living in the first?
00:38:26gevaertsthe rockbox *bootloader* lives in the first partition. Don't confuse that with rockbox itself
00:38:45TheSevenand yes, it should work
00:39:19TheSevenit's a bit tricky on newer ipod generations where sectors aren't 512 bytes (many BIOSes don't like that), but the old ones should work just fine, assuming you leave the partition table alone
00:39:47gevaertsAlso remember that rockbox only supports FAT
00:39:49StrangeCharmso, the apple firmware looks to the first partition, ignoring the mbr, while my bios would look to the mbr to see what to do?
00:40:18StrangeCharmi have a 4g. is that never, or older?
00:40:28TheSeveni don't know what the apple bootloader is doing, but it will either take the first partition in the partition table, or the only partition with type 0, but a start sector set
00:40:38TheSeventhat's one of the old ones
00:41:03TheSevenit will certainly not care about the code in the MBR (e.g. grub)
00:41:21TheSevenand grub won't care about the firmware partition or what the active partition is
00:42:07StrangeCharmso, this doesn't actually look like it needs much delicacy. i just need to not erase the first partition when i install the os, and make sure to install grub to the bootloader.
00:42:14*TheSeven has finished decompiling the ipod classic MMC and CE-ATA init code
00:42:26 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630])
00:42:32TheSevenStrangeCharm: yes, exactly
00:43:26StrangeCharmbut if i want to support other filessytems, like luks, or ext4, i'll have to manually add that to the code, and compile it myself, and that probably wouldn't be trivial.
00:43:55TheSevenyou should probably stick to fat32 for things that rockbox should be able to access
00:44:12TheSevenyou can still have an e.g. ext2 partition for the root partition
00:44:22TheSeven(for the PC OS you want to install)
00:45:22StrangeCharmTheSeven, my project is actually a little more ambitious. i'm just starting with rockbox because you guys have worked out how to get code running on an ipod
00:45:47TheSevenso you actually want something to boot on the ipod itself?
00:46:07 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
00:46:13StrangeCharmwell, since the ipod has a screen, i want to use it as a somewhat 'smart' disk
00:47:07StrangeCharmplaying music is not the plan. i just want the ipod to be able to give the user some information & diagnostics, even without a computer
00:47:27gevaertsYou might be better off starting from ipodlinux then
00:47:53StrangeCharmgevaerts, see, this is useful information. ^_^
00:48:52TheSevenanyone around who's interested in the ipod classic mmc/ce-ata stuff?
00:49:09StrangeCharmi just came into a friend's old ipod. it runs rockbox, and i wanted to play about with it
00:49:34StrangeCharmbut if ipod linux works, then that sounds like a better strategy
00:50:19TheSevengevaerts: do you know if iPL even has a UMS interface?
00:50:53gevaertsoh, right
00:51:01gevaertsNo, they never had USB as far as I know
00:51:54TheSevenand ext2 file system support probably also won't help him much because he can't safely mount the FS while being a UMS slave
00:52:21gevaertsWell, the question is if you want those features while connected
00:52:34TheSevenso something new (that intercepts the UMS traffic and updates statistics or whatever) would need to be written anyway, if i understood what he's planning to do
00:52:53TheSevenStrangeCharm: what exactly do you want the ipod to do?
00:53:27StrangeCharmTheSeven, my current basic goal is working as a capacity-meter, saying how full the disk is
00:54:09TheSevenwould it be sufficient to be able to access the file system while it's *not* connected via USB?
00:54:29 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.)
00:54:46StrangeCharmabsolutely. in fact, right now, i'm not worried about accessing the file-system when it is
00:55:00TorneStrangeCharm: you could do that kinda thing with a bit of trickery, yes
00:55:11Torneyou don't need to be able to actually mount the filesystem to do that
00:55:13gevaertshm, capacity might be doable by just reading superblocks or similar
00:55:15StrangeCharmmore like switch on the ipod, and it just shows a gauge of how full the fs is
00:55:18Tornejust find the superblock and look in the block group headers
00:55:24Torneadd them up :)
00:55:45TheSevenTorne: assuming that this is in a consistent state
00:55:54StrangeCharmthat's a little rough, but it shouldn't matter for a simple gauge
00:55:55TorneTheSeven: even if it's not, you can do it anyway
00:55:57TheSeventhis will be always true for fat, but i don't know about other FSes
00:56:00Tornefor only reading, who cares
00:56:11Torneyou're not going to write to anything so you can do it while it's mounted or whatever
00:56:19Torneit might not always be accurate but.. so :)
00:56:22TheSevenyou should care if inconsistent data means that the code locks up :)
00:56:26TorneANyway, i'd suggest you make a rockbox plugin for it
00:56:33Torneand just set it to autoload on boot ;)
00:56:37Torneor something like that.
00:56:45StrangeCharmTorne, yes, that was my plan
00:56:46Tornethen as a bonus you can also, yaknow, listen to music on it
00:56:55Tornebut only from fat32
00:56:56StrangeCharmbut first i'd have to import support for the fs
00:57:07gevaertslibe2fs might be reasonably easy to get working
00:57:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:57:18Torneno, as we just said, you don't really need to be able to mount the filesystem to do anything like that
00:57:19StrangeCharmi was thinking more along the lines of ext4
00:57:36Torneyah, the e2fsprogs libraries would do ;)
00:57:40gevaertsAnd when you've done that, you probably have the basics for e2fsck as well :)
00:58:02Torneyou are pretty much asking for dumpe2fs
00:58:07StrangeCharmalthough, i could just add some code to the regular os to write some simple fs data to a fat32 partition, which rockbox reads
00:58:13TheSevendo we have raw storage access functions in the plugin api?
00:58:16StrangeCharmthat would probably be much easier
00:58:20TorneTheSeven: no, but I've been meaning to add them for a while
00:58:30Tornemaybe i should get around to it
00:58:45gevaertsTheSeven: adding those isn't *that* big a deal :)
00:59:08TheSevenyes, i was only curious :)
00:59:11Tornemaybe i'll do it when i add SMART to pluginapi :)
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01:01:12TorneStrangeCharm: well, that's less interesting ;)
01:01:28 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@
01:02:40Tornebut don't let us stop you
01:02:49StrangeCharmTorne, indeed, quite. and i'd need to make sure that it works all the time
01:03:00StrangeCharmbut i would allow me to use an encrypted partition\
01:03:10StrangeCharmand it would be very clear what data i was leaking about it
01:03:13Tornei'd be tempted to just steal code from dumpe2fs
01:03:20Tornebut yeah, that won't help for encrypted volumes
01:03:22*Torne shrugs
01:04:11StrangeCharmmaybe i'll just fiddle around and see what works. at least now i have a lot more information and ideas than i did before i came in here
01:04:11 Quit ender (Quit: I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove it.)
01:04:12gevaertsis there a SCSI equivalent to ATA TRIM? Or is it possible to tunnel that over UMS?
01:05:50StrangeCharmthanks, all!
01:05:50Tornegevaerts: hm, dunno
01:05:50 Quit n1s (Quit: Lämnar)
01:05:50wodzwhy Time & Day is in System submenu and not in Settings?
01:05:50Tornebecause it's not a setting?
01:05:50wodz*Time & Date
01:05:52Tornewell, mostly it isn't
01:06:03Tornesome of the menu items could be interpreted that way :)
01:06:15Tornebut it's just a screen that shows you the time, and lets you set an alarm etc..
01:06:19Tornedoesn't really seem like a setting.
01:06:21gevaertsI'd be upset if I set e.g. the volume, came back half a day later, and see that it increased by 12
01:07:17wodzI don't get - you set the date & time so this IS a setting
01:07:30gevaertsBut it changes by itself!
01:07:31Tornethe purpose of that screen is moslty *not* to set the date and time
01:07:41Torneon a working player you only do that maybe twice a year, no?
01:07:55Tornemostly that screen is to see the time/date, and to activate sleep/alarm
01:08:54clone4crwmost OFs put time and date under settings with everything else, it is a bit confusing.
01:09:21wodzbtw. where is the code for setting time & date (I mean high level not hardware level)
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01:13:36clone4crwwodz: would firmware/export/rtc.h be useful to you?
01:14:05JdGordonwodz: apps/menus/time_menu.c iirc
01:14:45clone4crwthere. even better.
01:15:22wodzJdGordon: no - it draws whole screen with time & date, I am looking for code where you set time & date
01:16:36wodzapps/screens.c is what I am looking for
01:17:04JdGordonbah too slow :)
01:17:07JdGordonjust found that
01:19:32nicklessguyi'm still having problems with my Sansa Clip+ finding a new SanDisk microSD 16GB card. anyone here who could help me with that?
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01:22:15bertriknicklessguy, sorry, I don't. At least it seems it is detected on the hardware level.
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01:24:34nicklessguyomg, the strangest thing ever happened: it finally works now
01:24:39pixelmahmm... seems no one took over fixing the LANG_DISK_NAME_MMC for the Clip+: I might do it tomorrow if I get a chance to test and someone explains how to use the language tools to update the features strings for all languages
01:24:50pixelmaor someone else takes care of it...
01:25:22nicklessguyi just went into the debug menu, an re-inserted the card. then the message "scanning disk" (or something like that) popped up, and seconds later the card showed up.
01:27:22nicklessguyok, after a restart it's gone again :(
01:30:28rasherpixelma: −−changetarget −−from target −−to target −−id ID1 −−inplace *.lang
01:30:51rasheror more likely, tools/ −−changetarget −−from target −−to target −−id ID1 −−inplace apps/lang/*.lang
01:30:54 Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection)
01:30:58wodzwhy the hell set time/data screen doesn't react to inc/dec on hd300
01:31:40JdGordon1do you have the right actions defined?
01:31:55bertriklazy hd300 maintainer ! :P
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01:32:32pixelmathere could also be conflicts in linked action contexts
01:33:03pixelmarasher: hmm, not sure about the usage yet but don't bother explaining now. I should go get some sleep first :)
01:33:17wodzI can change settings in eq screen for example or in recording screen
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01:44:57amiconnSomething is seriously hosed wrt button actions in current builds
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01:44:58amiconnI often have to press a button a second time because the first press doesn't register.
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01:44:58amiconnThis happens on several targets, so it's definitely not a hardware problem
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01:44:58wodzJdGordon1: would be so kind and look at hd300 keymap and maybe time setting screen to see why it doesn't allow to change settings?
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01:44:58DBUGEnqueued KICK amiconn
01:44:58amiconnAnd it's not "first press enables backlight only". I double-checked that, and apart from that it also happens with backlight in always-on mode
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01:47:30wodzargh silly me :/ I didn't defined keymap for time context
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02:08:09TheSevencan anybody tell me what the argument to a SEND_OP_COND command is?
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02:42:15CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:42:15*TheSeven gives up for today, but will start writing a MMC/CE-ATA driver tomorrow :)
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02:57:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:14:15eWillDoes RB analyze your battery, or calculate "time remaining" based on a set number. Another question: Do CPU cycles get used on a heavy WPS when the backlight is off (black screen)?
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03:28:08[AndrewR]I would like to have a tick method called once every second or so for my plugin, anyone know how I can do that?
03:28:28[AndrewR]the precise interval isn't important, I just want approximately once a second
03:29:09saratogaeasiest way would be to loop with a yield and a call to a timer to see if 1 second has passed
03:30:05[AndrewR]how does that relate to plugin_start?
03:30:09[AndrewR]would I make a new thread or something?
03:30:26[AndrewR]right now I'm looping with rb->get_button
03:31:10[AndrewR]oh. I see some examples for making a new thread
03:31:36JdGordonwhat are you doing
03:31:43JdGordonyou probably dont need a new thread for this
03:32:17JdGordonespecially if timeing isnt actually crucial
03:32:18[AndrewR]for my workout app, I want to have a timer like "put weights to 150lb" <30 second timer>
03:32:32[AndrewR]"rest for 30s"
03:32:35[AndrewR]stuff like that
03:32:56JdGordonyou can just put a "if (TIME_BEFORE())" before the rb->get_button()
03:33:24[AndrewR]but won't the rb->get_button() wait until a button is pressed?
03:33:28JdGordoni mean so you do some code before the button check in the main loop if that timer has expored
03:34:01[AndrewR]but if I don't press a button for longer than the time amount, it won't trigger the timer
03:34:44JdGordonget_button() can be told to timeout
03:34:58[AndrewR]ah, that would work
03:35:51[AndrewR]button_get_w_tmo sweet
03:38:27[AndrewR]100 ticks seems to be 1 second
03:40:17eWillThere is an incorrect value on −−- It's the fourth "Fuze v2" listing. It says "22h 7min" for RB runtime, but his attached .txt file says 21h 7m.
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03:48:26saratogafix it then
03:49:10CIA-7New commit by moos (r28688): rbutil: Bring the french translation up to date.
03:50:20CIA-7r28688 build result: All green
03:51:30eWillsaratoga: I'm already registered in Flyspray and the Forums. Do I need to register for this too?
03:51:53eWillOK, I'll fix it. Thanks.
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03:58:40eWillI just tried to register on the Wiki −− 'Access check on Main.DocsIndex failed. Action "CHANGE": access not allowed on web'. I did not recieve an confirmation email
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04:42:25CIA-7New commit by jdgordon (r28689): Hopefully fix a crash using %if() with strings
04:48:58CIA-7r28689 build result: All green
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09:03:47BuscheleWill: RB estimated the left capacity in % from the measured voltage. then it uses the user's capacity setting (mAh) and the hardcoded assumption of battery current to calculate the remaining time. example: 25% left, capacity is 400 mAh, current is 20 mA => 25% * 400 mAh = 100 mAh left. 100/20 = 5h left.
09:06:07BuschelTheSeven: I have an idea regarding the hang-up when downclocking the nano. for my uses case (mostly mpc and few mp3) the nano didn't boost a lot. now (with 24 MHz unboosted) it boosts at least 1x per sec. maybe the cause is simply that the udelay() when waiting for the voltage to settle isn't sufficient in some cases...
09:07:01BuschelTheSeven: I will change the test_boost plugin to automatically boost/unboost to check the stability.
09:08:39eWillBuschel: By "hardcoded assumption of battery current" do you mean it doesn't know the actual current? (If current mA is known, is there any menu for me to view it?)
09:09:44BuscheleWill: it's hardcoded for all players in their config-files (e.g. /firmware/export/config/ipodnano2g.h) and called CURRENT_NORMAL
09:10:14Buschelfor few players (iPod nano 2g and Video) there is a patch that uses current measurements
09:10:39eWillno fuze v2 right?
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10:15:53bluebrothernice. Rockbox Utility build broken :(
10:16:01*bluebrother goes fixing
10:17:30TheSevenBuschel: you could also just try increasing that delay by an order of magnitude and check if the trouble goes away
10:18:13TheSevenso you switch directly from 24 to 192MHz?
10:18:18bluebrotherhmm. Wouldn't it be better to put all those model_names arrays into structures in mk{mpio,ams}boot?
10:20:02TheSevenBuschel: another possibility would be that the DRAM refresh timer is based on HCLK, and while it probably survives being only refreshed half as often as it should, there might be some bits flipping if it's only refreshed a quarter as often
10:27:06TheSevenis there a way for C preprocessor macros to have named arguments that can be specified in arbitrary order?
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10:28:12TheSevenso that I could e.g. write MMC_FAST_IO_ARGS(write = 1, rca = HDD_MMC_RCA, addr = addr, data = data)
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10:45:50JdGordonTheSeven: you want autogened code..... YUUUUUCK!
10:46:35TheSevenno, not code
10:47:05TheSeventhis will just do something like (write ? 0x8000 : 0) | (rca << 16) | (addr << 8) | data
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11:06:07CIA-7New commit by bluebrother (r28690): Make model_names static in mkmpioboot. ...
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11:08:11CIA-7r28690 build result: All green
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11:20:53BuschelJust pimped the test_boost plugin to boost/unboost 4x per sec. already ran for 3700 cycles now, w/o problems :/ hopefully this helps reporducing the hang up
11:22:35amee2k_mmmh, if this flash drive replacement mod works i'll replace the battery if this thing too
11:23:42amee2k_ipod compact flash mods seems to be a known idea though to increase capacity because the first gen mini only comes in a 4GB variant
11:23:59amee2k_so i ordered an 8GB card for it :)
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11:30:32BuschelTheSeven: the nano ran for >7 hours while it was _always_ boosted. so, the problem is either with the 24 MHz for all CPU/HCLK/PCLK or with boost/unboost.
11:31:11BuschelTheSeven: seems like there is not problem with the 192/96/24 setting
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11:42:49BuschelTheSeven: if the DRAM refresh is configured for a HCLK which is either 48 or 96 MHz, DRAM might be refreshed too few when using HCLK at 24 MHz, right?
11:44:25BuschelTheSeven: so, reading the preliminary spec it seems like setting MIUAREF to 0x1040 instead of 0x1080 could be helpful. your opinion?
11:44:57Buschelbtw, tha nano did ~9500 boost/unboost w/o any problem now (from 24 to 192 MHz)
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11:45:44TheSeventhe MIU doesn't match the datasheet
11:46:18Buschelnot fully. do you know more details?
11:46:32TheSeveni only know how i initialize it
11:46:51TheSeventhe DRAM refresh is probably configured for 96MHz, not even for 48
11:47:06TheSeventhe unboost/boost thing probably works if it boosts often enough to refresh often enough
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11:47:16TheSevenbut keeping it for a long time at 24 should show the problem
11:47:34TheSevenso if you want to verify that, break the boosting code, so that it always runs at 24, and play e.g. some flacs
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11:48:59Buschelhmm, configuration for MIUAREF is only done for Meizu's in crt0.s ?
11:49:53TheSeventhe MIU setup is done by the apple bootloader or emBIOS loader, not by rockbox
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11:53:04CIA-7New commit by bertrik (r28691): Initial version of sbinfo, a utility to analyse .sb files (used for the fuze+ for example)
11:53:38TheSevenBuschel: that's what embios loader does to initialize the MIU:
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11:54:53CIA-7r28691 build result: All green
11:55:15JdGordonwould anyone like to take over the themesite forum bot coding? :)
11:55:24JdGordonphp is fun for some people :p
11:55:48TheLemonManhuh someone is workin on .sb files ?
11:56:26TheSevenJdGordon: i should be doing RE work on the iPod classic, so I won't take it over, but I know php pretty well if you have some questions
11:56:52JdGordonits not so much that I have questions... it's more the code scares me :p
11:56:56BuschelTheSeven: if i read this embios init right, it does only enable the auto-refresh and keeps the preset
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11:57:21TheSevenfeel free to play around with it. everything i know about it is in that paste :)
11:57:27Buschelldrr0, [r11,#0x08]; orrr0, r0, #0x1000; strr0, [r11,#0x08]
11:58:05TheSeveni'm just doing it the way apple is doing it, so i don't really know what i'm doing :P
11:58:40Buschelworking quite well so far ;)
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12:01:52JdGordonteru: I'm liking your rockbox_browse() patch
12:02:35JdGordonthe playlist catalogue stuff should probably be seperate though, but not a big deal if it is too late
12:05:39teruthanks. separating catalog change is easy.
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12:23:36Georgehi guys!
12:23:55Georgecan anyone help me with a rockbox question?
12:24:32AlexPOnly if you ask it
12:24:59George:) ok I have a Sansa Clip v1 with rockbox 3.7
12:26:01Georgeand yesterday worked fine but now when I turn it on, it says Panic audio_reset_buffer () EOM (209792 > 60896)
12:26:17Georgeand I cannot connect it to the computer
12:26:41Georgeif i press any key of the player, it restarts with the same message
12:27:37Georgewhen I try to connect it to the computer, windows says that the device has malfunctioned and cannot connect it
12:27:43AlexPYou can hold left when it is booting to get the OF
12:27:48amee2k_hmmm i know some bits of C (posix systems and 8-bit AVR), perl, shell and java.... about how difficult is writing my own plugin?
12:28:05AlexPamee2k_: Only you can really answer that
12:28:13AlexPHave a look at some existing ones
12:28:33bertrikamee2k_, not very difficult, but you are limited to using functions provided by the rockbox plugin API
12:28:40amee2k_do i need the full source tree to compile new one? or just some headers
12:28:47bertrikI think there is a hello world example plugin
12:29:33bertrikyou basically need the full source tree
12:29:40tmzt_g2rootwhat binary format does rockbox use for rock files?
12:29:49Georgewell, the only command that works is tun off
12:30:15Georgei can turn it off, but when i turn it on it does that PANIC error
12:30:55AlexPIf you hold left from the start, what happens
12:31:21Georgeyou want me to turn it on, but mantaining the button slided?
12:31:34AlexPI want you to turn it on while holding left
12:31:48bertrikthe EOM panic seems to come from apps/playback.c
12:32:13bertrikso this is not the bootloader panic'ing
12:32:17AlexPbertrik: So I guess it is trying to resume on a file that is killing it
12:32:28Georgecoooool, I managed to start it with the original software
12:32:43AlexPGeorge: What file where you playing when it crashed?
12:32:50bertrikyes, something like that. Going to the OF and deleting the playlist file (or perhaps also the config files) should solve it
12:33:17AlexPGeorge: Now connect to USB, and delete playlist_control from the /.rockbox directory
12:33:18Georgeit didnt play any file. I connected it to my pc to put some new music, and than turned it off
12:33:31Georgeand today i started it and it says this message
12:33:39AlexPThat is really odd, as the crash is in the playback code
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12:35:04Georgei want to delete the entire .rockbox and put the new version (3.7.1), is it OK with that?
12:35:12TheSeventmzt_g2root: ARM executable code with some small header
12:35:25AlexPGeorge: Yes, that is fine too
12:35:58AlexPYou will lose settings doing that (normally you don't need to delete .rockbox, just extract over the top), but in this case it is probably a good idea
12:36:00tmzt_g2rootTheSeven: does it resolve symbols or use traps directly?
12:36:46TheSevenno, it's linked to a fixed address and calls the rockbox apis using a pointer table that's passed as an argument to the plugin's entry point function
12:37:03tmzt_g2rootah, so only one plugin is ever loaded at a time
12:37:24Georgeok, thank you guys, my rockbox is now up and running! thanks a lot!
12:37:27tmzt_g2rootdo things work the same way on hosted?
12:37:50*TheSeven knows nothing about RaaA and the sims :)
12:37:54AlexPGeorge: great, and no worries :)
12:38:16TheSevenmaybe kugel knows, but he isn't here right now
12:38:17tmzt_g2rootthanks though, I was looking for a simpler elf implementation to study but rb doesn't use it
12:39:37JdGordontechnically 2 oplugins can be loaded at the same time... codec+plugin
12:39:58tmzt_g2rootbut there's no fixup? so the lds for codecs are different?
12:43:43gevaertsamee2k_: there's one potentially important bit that some ipod mini CF mod guides don't mention: add in some bits of cardboard or something like that to compensate for the CF card being thinner. The hard disk in those things is used to keep the buttons in place, so if you "just" put in a CF card you might have button issues later
12:45:08TheSevengevaerts: is my assumption correct that an ipod classic can't be CF modded because of ce-ata?
12:45:32TheSevenand is my assumption correct that MMC is a bus where you can just connect multiple cards in parallel without needing chip select lines?
12:45:57amee2k_gevaerts: hmmm not on mine. you actually need to unplug the buttons and wheel to get the board out because they don't come out together
12:45:58TheSevendoes this mean that one could "SD-mod" those things, with several cards?
12:46:44amee2k_the thing that has the buttons on it slides into two rails on the inside sides of the case and has a latch that engages in a grove machined into the front side
12:47:00*amee2k_ . o O ( wtf is it with my underscore these days >_< )
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12:47:59gevaertsTheSeven: I don't know. Isn't the 80GB disk still a standard zif disk?
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12:48:26gevaertsamee2k_: yes, but the disk still supports especially the middle part of that
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12:48:53TheSevengevaerts: I haven't found any traces of plain ATA so far
12:49:38tmzt_g2rootamee2k: with a controller, maybe you could bitbang it on the cf port but that would be a little crazy
12:50:05tmzt_g2rootTheSeven: I think you can have multiple sd cards, they just get assigned different addresses when inited
12:50:14amee2khu? bit bang what?
12:50:24tmzt_g2rootin practice though I don't know of anything that uses it without mux hardware or independent controllers
12:50:28TheSevenamee2k: he addressed the wrong nick
12:51:03amee2kgevaerts: i don't think i can confirm that... the case is pretty much a piece of strand casting cut to size and then all the openings are machined into that
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12:51:26gevaertsamee2k: yes, but is the button board supported anywhere but on the sides?
12:51:29tmzt_g2rootoh yeah
12:51:31amee2kso the rails that support the keypad (i'll just call the wheel+buttons assembly keypad now) run down the whole length
12:52:12amee2kthe keypad is actually pretty stiff. you need to bend it a bit inwards to get it out because the buttons protrude through the case so they're flush on the outside
12:52:15tmzt_g2rootamee2k: bit bang is a term programmers use to mean use pins to do somethign they weren't intended to do, like read an sd card
12:52:18gevaertsDo whatever you like, but don't complain if the centre button doesn't respond well :)
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12:52:56amee2kand that needs quite a bit of force. i don't know why they have the latch anyway. the buttons sticking into the case is far more effective at keeping it in place IMO
12:53:53AlexPLots of people have already done this
12:54:02AlexPAnd cardboard is very commonly needed
12:54:12AlexPbut as gevaerts says, do what you like :)
12:55:52amee2ksure i will >_>
12:56:14amee2kit looks like the card is at least holding the PBC in place
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13:14:04wodzI think I am going to clean up i2c mess a bit. There is no reason other than nobody cares that we have a few incompatibile i2c implementations which are wrapped around into some silly functions when some code is shared between different targets
13:15:11wodzmoreover firmware/drivers/i2c.c is SH specific while it should live in target tree
13:17:16JdGordonwodz: come into #rockbox-community
13:18:02bertrikI would like to move some code from firmware/drivers/serial.c to target trees
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13:22:16bertrikWhat's the meaning of the return value of _backlight_init ?
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13:23:48wodzno meaning probably
13:24:44bluebroth3ris "MPIO" the manufacturer of those MPIO players?
13:24:55bluebroth3ror is MPIO a part of the model name?
13:26:14wodzmpio is manufacturer
13:35:03bertrikwodz, which i2c implementation is better, the one from s5l870x or the coldfire one?
13:40:56wodzI used to coldfire calling convention so I may be biased
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13:42:57wodzwe even have something called generic_i2c which is used by AS3525 and MEIZU M6SP
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13:47:54wodzbertrik: what is sub-address in s5l870x implementation?
13:49:16bertrikwodz, I don't know right now, I'd have to look that up
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13:53:06wodzbertrik: Is it support for 10bit i2c address?
13:53:21bertrikI don't think so
13:54:53*Buschel managed to get DRAM faster on nano2g
13:55:08Buscheldo not know how stable this will be though... read +10%, write +20%
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14:15:42CIA-7New commit by moos (r28692): rbutil: r28687 touched too much. Restore some accelerator keys.
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14:17:53CIA-7r28692 build result: All green
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14:27:21*bertrik implemented "backlight" fading for the clips (sansa clip, sansa clip v2, sansa clip+)
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14:49:26TheSevenBuschel: what did you change?
14:49:55TheSevenwodz, bertrik: I'd guess that "address" is the i2c device, and "subaddress" the on-device address for memory-like devices
14:49:59BuschelTheSeven: setting MIUSDPARA to 0x0069291D
14:50:11TheSevenwhat does that affect?
14:50:47BuschelTheSeven: lower RAS and refresh cycles
14:51:27BuschelTheSeven: but that's quite experimental as we d not know how the registers really work...
14:52:08BuschelTheSeven: btw, I am not an expert in RAM layout. can you tell the row adress bit width from any information we have?
14:52:42BuschelTheSeven: what I can see is that the nano's default auto-refresh cycles are derived from the 191.7 MHz clock somehow
14:52:58TheSevensure that it isn't 96Mhz?
14:53:26BuschelTheSeven: it is derived from 191.7 / 2^n
14:53:52Buscheli do not know exactly as i do not know this row adress bit width
14:53:57TheSevenhm, so that's using FCLK_CPU?
14:54:24TheSevenyou mean the row/column geometry?
14:54:52Buschelthe config says column bit width is = 9 bit
14:55:12Buschel(if the spec is right)
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14:57:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:59:29Buschelit matches perfectly for 12 bit row adress width
15:00:01TheSeventhose are the chips they're using
15:03:17saratogabertrik: do you know why someone in the forums would report a large DC offset from rockbox when playback is paused on AMS?
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15:03:47preglow_a pretty common bug, i'd expect
15:03:54preglow_codec just holds the last value it got
15:04:08TheSevenno caps on the output?
15:04:15TheSevenor high impedance load?
15:04:18preglow_obviously not :>
15:04:28preglow_we've had that kind of bug before on other targets anyway
15:04:32preglow_and it was our fault
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15:04:45TheSevenprobably most people won't notice that because they have fade on pause/unpause enabled
15:05:30bertrikI suspect the headphone common setting
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15:09:48bertrikThe headphone outputs are DC coupled, with the headphone common buffer providing a "phantom ground"
15:10:47saratogawhats the correct solution then? turn off the DAC when paused?
15:13:21bertrikyes, something like that, we'd have to check the data sheet
15:14:06bertrikas far as I understand the datasheet, there is a 150 mV DC voltage on HPCM for headphones detection, when the power amplifier is powered down
15:16:56bertrikI guess we just need to experiment a bit and measure
15:17:49BuschelTheSeven: btw, I get much higher fps on the nano 2g (~87 fps main, ~64 fps yuv)
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15:18:50TheSevenBuschel: which LCD is that?
15:18:59TheSevenwhat's your lcdcon (0x38600000) value?
15:19:02TheSevenmine is 0xc01
15:19:28Buschelmine is a LDS176 type
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15:22:05Buschelwhere can i see this register?
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15:23:31TheSevenBuschel: strange, i also have the LDS176 (type 7)
15:23:41TheSeveni usually look at those things using embios
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15:26:41Buschelwill recompile with the changed refresh now and test the 24 MHz build again
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16:08:32BuschelTheSeven: after checking the RAM spec it seems to me like SDPARA should be set to 0x6a491d like for the MEIZU_M3
16:09:07BuschelTheSeven: the nano 2g setting is quite conservative
16:09:32TheSevenmaybe they want to support other (cheaper) chips as well
16:10:37BuschelTheSeven: additionally my nano survided CAS-to-RAS-delay of 20 instead of 30ns −− but all of this cannot be used generic as apple may wanted to support other chips as well
16:11:38TheSevenwhat do the specs for the two known-used chips allow?
16:19:39Buschelsorry, gotta go now. real life calling ;)
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16:22:54CIA-7New commit by gevaerts (r28693): Accept FS #11774 by Michael Hohmuth (with some own modifications to #ifdef conditions) ...
16:25:33CIA-7r28693 build result: All green
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16:57:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:58:44pamauryI'm puzzled, it seems the elftosb2 program sometimes uses a random key to encrypt blocks and I don't see how it is possible to retrieve this key !
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18:03:44saratogaif they key is random doesn't that mean it has to be stored somewhere in the resulting binary?
18:04:33bertrikI guess the random is only used to diversify things
18:06:28pamauryI can't see it written
18:06:43pamauryit is used everywhere but never written
18:07:07pamauryOr there is a magic relationship which allows to retrieve it...
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18:08:31pamaurybertrik: I made a mistake: after the chunk headers, there are 32 bytes per key. The first 16 bytes are the cbc mac of all the headers (I checked) but the 16 other bytes are ...something else, seems to be a cbc mac of the header but with the random key :(
18:10:03pamaurywait !
18:10:09pamauryI think I found out :)
18:10:56pamauryHum, it seems they encrypt the random key using the one specified to elftosb2, so you have to decrypt it to get the real key :o
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18:14:28bertrikpamaury, I noticed that one of the 6-byte randoms in the file generated by elftosb seemed quite random, but the fuze+ has "sgtl" (=sigmatel?) there.
18:14:47pamauryyes I saw but have no explaination
18:15:10pamauryperhaps there tricked the randomizer to put sgtl here :D
18:15:45pamaurysince it just here to add some noise, you can put pretty much everything so they might have modified the program to put "sgtl"
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18:16:34pamauryanyway, if I'm right, we are close to being able to decrypt the sb format (knowing the key of course)
18:20:43 Quit Loto (Quit: Loto)
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18:21:17pamaurywould it be okay to include this file in the trunk to encrypt/decrypt ?
18:21:52pamauryit says "This code is public domain, or any OSI-approved license, your choice. No warranty."
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18:23:01amiconnTheSeven: While MMC is called an open standard (as opposed to SD), the actual documentation from the MMCA isn't publicly available. However, numerous MMC datasheets describe all necessary details
18:23:12amiconnThat's how I implemented the MMC driver for the Ondios
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18:25:45*TheSeven wonders why the MMC docs weren't leaked yet
18:26:08TheSevenbut currently i'm fighting less with actual MMC than with the MMC core of the SoC
18:26:13pamaurythere are some leaked mmc docs
18:27:01amiconnWell, the MMC datasheets are sufficient (imo)
18:29:51amiconnHmm, I also have a pdf of the JEDEC standard for MMC 4.3
18:30:02amiconn(didn't exist yet back then)
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18:34:20pamaurybertrik: any reason to compile sbinfo.c in ansi mode with C99 define at the beginning ?
18:39:23bertrikno, I just copied that from amsinfo
18:40:27pamaurywell, sbinfo.c has a switch saying it's C99 source and compiling with -ansi says to use C90...I think it's easier to compile in C99, because I plan to include the file I linked 20 minutes ago and it uses some C++ style comments
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18:42:28Nerdy3_14159265pixelma: I've discovered what the problem was absolutely
18:45:01amiconnHrm, the button map of the newfangled image viewer is completely hosed on at least two targets, and on archos it doesn't work at all ("grey buf error") :(
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18:50:11pixelmaNerdy3_14159265: what was it? Maybe you can help others with the knowledge
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18:57:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:00:43csh_hello, i want to ask something related to plugin api. since the target platform uses eabi format, if i compile my plugin that has floats, then I link it to Rockbox, can't my plug-in use the fpu of my ipod? i thought this since the target platform uses eabi format which is not operating system dependent
19:01:03gevaertsIt can use all fpus on the ipod
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19:01:11gevaertsUnfortunately, that means "zero of them"
19:01:30amiconnAhah - serious confusion issue: if test plugins are enabled, the default viewer for jpg files is test_mem_jpeg, not the image viewer (!)
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19:01:31csh_doesn't arm processor have fpu?
19:02:05gevaertssome of them do, but nearly all of the ones in devices that rockbox runs on don't
19:02:27AlexPonly the one in the gigabeat S does
19:03:07csh_i understood. thanks
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19:07:51saratogatechnically modern ARM doesn't have an FPU, its all provided by coprocessors like NEON or VFP
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19:17:51nlshmm, it would be interesting to use the vfp on the beast for something
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19:19:14Zagoryeah, let's write new fp codecs ;)
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19:25:43CIA-7New commit by amiconn (r28694): Reorder viewers.config entries so that test plugins come after the standard plugins for the same extension. The first defines the default action and ...
19:27:43CIA-7r28694 build result: All green
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19:35:07Stummidocs/API is realy outdated. is there a newer documentation of the api anywhere?
19:36:22Stummiwith "documentation" i meaned something with more explaination :p
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19:40:55nlsamiconn: your viewer change readds the annoyance of having to move a lot in the list to use test_codec
19:43:03amiconnThe test plugins should never end up as the default for a format
19:46:24nlsno, but test_codec was never the defrault for any format as it only works with files that the core plays anyway
19:47:48nlshaving it first in the list was a nice convenience as when I use it i tent to run it many times so have to move through the same list a lot or change it locally
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19:48:06amiconnMaking an exception is dangerous imo
19:48:21amiconnIt could be moved to the very bottom - then it should be the last entry
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19:48:46wodzTheSeven: ping
19:48:59*amiconn doesn't care about the position because "open with" needs many button presses anyway
19:49:13TheSevenwodz: gnip
19:49:56nlsamiconn: i care about test_codecs position as it's the only plugin i use and if you aren't going to use the test_* plugins they can easily be disabled
19:50:17nlsonly plugin i use often
19:50:28wodzTheSeven: about s5l870x i2c - isn't address parameter a mix of lowlevel and some protocol from higher layer?
19:50:38amiconnI also use it often at times
19:51:00TheSevenwodz: yes, it's handling both protocol layers
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19:58:26pamaurybertrik: it's hardly believable, but I think the fuze+ firmware is encrypted using the zero key
19:59:21Zagorpamaury: haha
20:00:02pamauryI need to check that everything match but the CBC-MAC of the headers using the zero key matches
20:01:23gevaertsWhy do they even bother then?
20:01:46pamaurybecause the format used by sb is horrible
20:02:00pamaurysee the description on the wiki
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20:02:20gevaertsOr maybe they generated a random key and were really "lucky"
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20:03:33Tronix286hi all
20:03:50pamauryWell, I mean without reverse engineering elftosb2, it's impossible to find out since the program really uses a random key to encrypt everything and only uses the user key to encrypt the random key :D
20:04:24Tronix286Anybody there, who knows players with JZ47xx processors?
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20:10:07pamauryI think there is one player with jz47xx processor but don't know which one
20:11:26nlsarenät the ondas using that chip?
20:11:33pamauryfrom the config files, there are two: OndaVX777 and OndaVX747
20:15:34bertrikpamaury, great!
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20:22:28pamaury\o/ I managed to decrypt the fimware files !!!
20:22:40pamaurythat's awesome
20:23:07gevaertsWell done!
20:24:34wodzTheSeven: can't i2c_read with address parameter have STOP after writing the address? I mean to convert i2c_read(slave_addr, address, len, buf) to i2c_write(slave_addr, -1, 1, &address); i2c_read(slave_addr, -1, len, buf);
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20:26:35TheSeveni don't know the details, but i know it's possible to split them somehow
20:26:46TheSeven(apple has them separate)
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20:27:48wodzTheSeven: Could you check this please? This would simplify greatly my work to unify i2c api
20:28:20bertrikI know that some peripherals get confused by a STOP and really need a repeated START for example
20:29:00bertriknot sure if those are also used in rockbox targets though
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20:30:00pamauryI have updated the wiki will all information I have about encryption, I still to describe the format used by boot sections
20:30:12pamauryI'll attach some programs soon
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20:37:24wodzthe only peripherial of question is nano2g pmu (pmu-nano2g.c) as uda1380 (udacodec-meizu.c) is used in irivers also and can use simple writes
20:37:38wodzbertrik, TheSeven ^
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20:38:31TheSeveni'm quite certain the PMU will accept split transfers because apple accesses it that way
20:38:51TheSeventhe wmcodec doesn't use the higher-level protocol at all, so that should also be fine
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20:49:18CIA-7New commit by stummi (r28695): applying FS #10489: Rockboy - rotate directional keys when screen is rotated
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20:51:09CIA-7r28695 build result: All green
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21:09:16bertrikpamaury, can you make any sense of the decrypted data, e.g. what is the host chunk, what is the play chunk?
21:13:55kugelcan you disassemble now?
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21:47:01alexbobPdon't hate the player, hate the OF
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21:50:35 Nick Kohli is now known as Kohlrabi (
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21:56:11CIA-7New commit by pamaury (r28696): sbinfo: add decryption support and pretty print boot section structure ...
21:56:48 Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93)
21:57:06pamauryhere it is, the famous firmware decrypter...
21:58:20CIA-7r28696 build result: All green
22:03:39 Join mortalscan [0] (~mortalsca@
22:03:52TheSevengevaerts: damn, seems like you were right
22:04:36gevaertsFound an ATA driver?
22:05:08TheSevenfound a GPIO that bypasses the CE-ATA code at least
22:05:23TheSevenstill no traces of ATA, but that will probably be hiding in the other code path
22:05:46TheSeveni was already wondering why all those ce-ata transfers keep timing out as soon as they require the device to respond
22:09:17bertrikpamaury, what kind of key file should I use?
22:09:56pamaurya file containing a list of 128-bit keys in hexadecimal. For the firmware, just create a file with 00000000000000000000000000000000 in it
22:11:50*TheSeven spend three days on writing a driver that apparently isn't even used on his ipod
22:12:19pamaurybad luck
22:12:33pamaurybut then why is there some code for it ?
22:13:32gevaertsThe 160GB model
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22:21:05pamaurybertrik: I update the wiki with the boot section format
22:21:25*TheSeven wonders what interface the 2g/3g classic are using
22:21:34 Join benjahmmin [0] (
22:21:49gevaertsI suspect ATA
22:23:22TheSevenany particular reasons for that suspicion?
22:24:06gevaertsPartly the fact that places like ifixit don't seem to have CE-ATA drives in stock or even replacement guides for them
22:24:08TheSevenbut this means that one could sd-mod and cf-mod a classic 1g at the same time, if the software supports it :)
22:24:32gevaertsIf the wiring is sufficiently distinct, yes :)
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22:40:33Nerdy3_14159265pixelma: You here?
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22:57:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:00:01TheSevenhm, there are 28 GPIOs that are configured differently for ATA vs. CE-ATA
23:01:43TheSevengood news: we have an at least somewhat accurate datasheet for both the ata and mmc core
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23:51:16CIA-7New commit by wodz (r28697): HD300 - add basic RTC support
23:51:37CIA-7New commit by wodz (r28698): Update lang files for Set time/date screen on HD300
23:51:49 Quit mortalscan (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:51:50CIA-7New commit by wodz (r28699): HD300 - keymap tweaks
23:53:46CIA-7r28697 build result: All green
23:54:24 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
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23:56:10CIA-7r28698 build result: All green
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23:57:17 Join eWill [0] (~chatzilla@
23:57:57eWillFUUUUU! Ever heard of the 'battery_bench.txt' file being missing after the player shuts down???

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