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#rockbox log for 2010-12-05

00:07:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:22:25gevaertskugel: true
01:30:33kugelthere's even a win32 support
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01:34:14 Join allc0re [0] (
01:35:14allc0reI have a JVC car stereo with iPod control. If I switch to Rockbox on my iPod with JVC unit still be able to control it?
01:35:31allc0re*will the JVC still be...
01:35:35 Quit mt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:36:03dinkerooo good question
01:36:13dinkerim about to install for first time but didnt think of that
01:36:19gevaertsIt depends
01:37:09allc0reWhat does it depend on?
01:37:23dinkermaybe the unit
01:37:25gevaertsWe have some compatibility data on
01:37:37allc0reI'll check that out
01:37:42gevaertsIn short, it works with some, not with others
01:38:07allc0rethanks for the link
01:38:37gevaertsIf you want to be sure, the best thing to do is to test yourself :)
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02:07:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:14:52allc0reLooks like it will work, but I'll have to test it myself to see exactly how well it does
02:15:10 Quit allc0re (Quit: thanks for the help)
02:25:29scorcheupdating most packages on my server - watch for breakages in forums/themesite
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03:06:16 Join Kyle2 [0] (~kyle@
03:16:53Kyle2I am visually impaired, using the Orca screen reader on Ubuntu Linux. I would like to be able to install Rockbox on a Sandisk Sansa Clip+. Unfortunately, I have found that the Rockbox utility is built using QT, which will be compatible with Orca in the future, but as of now, still doesn't speak. Is manual installation the only option I have, or is there another version of the installation utility available, either using GTK+ 2.0 or from the command line?
03:20:04krazykitthe manual installation is from the command line and would be the alternative
03:25:55Topic"Rockbox 3.7.1 released! | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | An upgrade caused issues with the wiki. We are on the case | The forums/themes/translate server is currently undergoing maintenance - outages and oddities are to be expected. " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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03:32:37Kyle2I'll read that section of the manual. It may not be as complicated as it looked like it would be. Thanks much.
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03:34:05Kyle2If I want to create my own voice file, is there an alternative way to do that?
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03:43:34scorcheapache on my server should be working correctly now
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03:53:10scorcherasher: do you have any idea what you and/or mculenaere (or anyone else) might have done to make the themes site behave like molasses? The problem was reported before i did these upgrades, however, it seems like now every page is behaving horribly
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04:07:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:16:57Kyle2Trying to download the original Sandisk Sansa Clip+ firmware from the link provided in the manual gives me a 404. The link I have from the manual released 11/26 is
04:16:57Kyle2td-p/150227. Is there another place to download this original firmware?
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04:18:03Kyle2 is actually the correct link. Sorry for the split line.
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04:25:05Kyle2The link provided in the original Clip+ manual isn't working either. Same 404 error at
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04:50:44mordocaiKyle2: is where they were trying to get you, i think
04:51:14mordocaiKyle2: If you click the link next to "Firmware Download for All Regions" it'll get you to where you need to be.
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05:46:22Kyle2mordocai: Ah thanks! This seems to have gotten me exactly where I need to be.
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05:51:04Kyle2mordocai: I actually also found a Clip+ firmware that seems to have been patched with the boot loader already in March of this year. I found this on the ABI forum. The thread there says I can just extract the boot loader and the Rockbox firmware onto the player in MSC mode and it will just install and work automatically. Should I trust this/is the boot loader new enough, or am I better off following the directions in the manual for patching the original Sandisk
05:52:31Kyle2mordocai: The firmware that is apparently already patched is the same Sandisk version as the link you gave me.
05:53:32Kyle2There is a .bin file and a .sansa file in the zip archive.
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06:04:27saratogacurrent bootloader is from July, so if you have a file from March its probably out of date
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06:08:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:10:05Kyle2saratoga: Thanks. I'm downloading the original 01.02.15 and will patch it according to the manual instructions with the latest boot loader. Thanks for the help.
06:15:30telliottSnyone have any idea why some 16 gig microSD cards aren't recognized by Rockbox in the Sansa Clip+?
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06:30:50saratogamy 16GB card works on my clip+
06:32:46saratogaso its probably specific to some players or some cards
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07:56:19scorcheforums are going into maintenance mode
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08:06:21scorcheupdated to current SMF version - now for the hard part...working out the packages/mods
08:08:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:26:12scorcheall past mods successfully applied besides the "trim url" one which would not apply and i could not find a suitable replacement on the mod site
08:26:53scorchegoing through and tweaking settings to make sure they are what we had before before i take the forum back out of maintenance mode
08:27:32scorchesignatures of users may have been altered - i could not remember what the exact settings were before...
08:34:08scorchedouble posts will now be automatically merged with the last post from the user - the default time for this to allow the user to actually double post is set at 1 day - wasnt it set at 1 day in the past? If not, let me know and i will change it...
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08:40:39DylanJis it possible to (on an ipod video) somehow manage to play music while connected via usb
08:42:34 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:43:28scorcheDylanJ: as in while the device is mounted on the host computer, or just charging?
08:46:38DylanJscorche: Well currently I have my ipod connected but not mounted.
08:46:51scorchehold menu
08:46:59scorche(while inserting the USB cable)
08:47:32DylanJYou're a god!
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08:55:10scorcheI am taking the forums out of maintenance mode now
08:57:35scorcheWe are now using recaptcha for the forums - seems to be working just fine
09:00:33Mode"#rockbox +o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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09:00:47Mode"#rockbox +o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:01:42Topic"Rockbox 3.7.1 released! | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | An upgrade caused issues with the wiki. We are on the case | The forums/themes/translate server has been upgraded - please report any oddities/issues to scorche" by scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
09:01:48Mode"#rockbox -o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:06:18scorcheAs the topic says, I think i am done doing any updates/upgrades on the server. If you notice any oddities or issues with the forums, themes, or translate sections of the site, please let me know. The apparently "random" slowness of the themesite is a known "bug" - those who have been working on it recently (a few weeks? - i did not first discover this) need to go have a look at it...
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09:29:51scorcheI take that back - the "member color link" mod did not apply either
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10:08:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:01:30AlexPscorche: ta for fiddling with the forums, lets hope a working captcha might reduce the spam a little :)
11:03:23scorcheAlexP: it feels nice to not be running a >3 year old forum version as well ;)
11:03:34AlexPyes indeed :)
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11:44:12casainhoI am starting a new port, but for some reason this line is not "executed", on config.h "#include "config/lyre_v2.h""
11:44:28casainhowhat can be wrong?
11:44:53casainhoI have on config.h: "#elif defined(LYREV2)"
11:45:14casainhofor some reason, looks like LYREV2 isn't defined...
11:46:14 Quit noamsml (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
11:48:09pamaurythos kinds of defines are probably enabled by the command line, like when you compile with gcc -DLYREV2. If you are starting a new port, you probably need to tweaks configure to generate a correct Makefile
11:50:57casainhopamaury: I already saw PortingHowTo
11:51:38pamaurydid you put -DLYREV2 in target ?
11:51:40casainhoI think "configure" should have "target="-LYREV2"... I run configure and it generates the makefile for my target...
11:52:06casainho!!! it's missing the D!!!! :-)
11:52:15casainhopamaury: thanks!
11:53:16casainhopamaury: I am working for imx233 port :-)
11:53:35casainhopamaury: any luck with pins finding for Fuse+?
11:54:09TheLemonManlol seems that everyone is workin on that
11:54:22pamaurynot yet, I'm still disassembling the various initialisation stage, I don't know if bertrik has made any progress
11:54:32pamaurybut I don't have any spare time this week-end
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13:08:07gevaertsscorche: I suspect the themesite problem is probably "just" caused by a growing database
13:08:15amee2khas anyone here played with TinyCore linux by chance?
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13:35:35casainhoI can't find where is defined SYSFONT_HEIGHT...
13:35:51casainhowhere is that defined? −−- common.c on bootloader can't find it :-(
13:51:57gevaertsProbably in a generated header file in the build directory
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13:56:52amee2kgrep -r says its defined in build-dir/sysfont.h
13:57:02amee2kamong others
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14:07:49kugelthe swapcontext snippet I found for win32 doesn't quite work, but win32 has fibers which work as well (and are even simpler to use) so our threading engine also works on windows
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16:08:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:24:14CIA-7New commit by bluebrother (r28735): MinGW: prefer C99 compliance by using replacement implementations. ...
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16:28:18CIA-7r28735 build result: All green
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17:06:40LambdaCalculus37scorche: Thanks for updating the forums. :)
17:10:08 Quit user890104 ()
17:11:13LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: I was curious to know if you have made any additional progress with the iPod Classic's storage.
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17:12:56TheSeveni'm currently fighting the bad sectors of my drive
17:14:47LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: My Classic's drive has no bad sectors to my knowledge. Want me to test anything?
17:15:11TheSevenhm, i don't think there's much to test yet
17:15:25TheSevendoes anyone want to start the rockbox port?
17:16:02amee2kmmmh, how do you fight bad sectors?
17:16:08amee2kother than getting a new disk
17:16:21TheSeveni implemented some bad block remapping thing at the ata driver level
17:16:34TheSevenand am currently scanning the disk and generating the bad block table
17:17:07gevaertsWouldn't it be more efficient to generate a good block table for that particular disk?
17:17:18amee2kin my exp this is only a short term solution at best
17:17:19TheSevenabout 0.2% of the blocks are bad
17:17:55amee2kwhat kind of drive is it? 2.5"?
17:18:01TheSevenamee2k: this is a device i use mainly for testing, and for that i need to (temporarily) get rid of the bad sectors
17:18:10TheSeven1.8" ZIF 5mm
17:18:21amee2kooh, okay
17:19:27amee2knot sure about these but regular hard drives can do some remapping on their own
17:19:34TheSevengevaerts: actually the scan is generating a bad block table, which is then transformed into a good block mapping table, which is used by the ata code
17:19:58amee2kand when they start developing bad sectors en mass, its often times not going to stop until the drive is mostly useless
17:19:58TheSevenamee2k: this one can also do that, but apparently only ~5k bad sectors, and it has like 25k
17:20:41TheSeveni have a strong suspicion that those bad sectors are the effect of some kind of mechanical damage to the platters at that location
17:21:10amee2kUSB can go die in a fire
17:21:20TheSevenit's only the first quarter of the disk that suffers from bad sectors, and there seems to be some kind of pattern in their locations
17:22:14amee2kone tiny hickup and dd freezes while trying to pull an image
17:23:38LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: Do you need a dd dump of the hard drive?
17:23:41amee2kTheSeven: not sure how the CHS to LBA mapping works but extensive platter damage would create bad sectors in adjectant cylinders
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17:24:51TheSevenLambdaCalculus37: I can't boot the OF on mine anyway (excessive hard drive damage)
17:25:13LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: Mine works. If you want, I can make a dd dump of the hard drive for you.
17:25:32TheSevenwhat should i do with that?
17:26:09TheSeventhere are a few hundreds of bad sectors in the firmware partition
17:26:38*TheSeven wonders if he should get a classic 3g for christmas
17:27:10amee2kand the most annoying thing is that it sometimes leaves dd stuck in a state where you can't kill it >:|
17:27:18kugelwth, some tracks on my pc trigger a stack overflow
17:28:33amee2kbecause the kernel isn't properly rejecting the dead device
17:28:52amee2kamong other things, killing fdisk -l as well
17:29:28*TheSeven seriously wonders if anyone wants to do the rockbox port for the ipod classic
17:29:55*TheSeven didn't start the nano2g port either, and what we did back then worked quide well
17:30:19TheSeven(me reverse engineering the hardware and writing little proof-of-concept standalone drivers, and someone else plugging them into rockbox)
17:30:45TheSeveni would also take care of the boot/installation process
17:31:51*gevaerts would volunteer, but he doesn't have a classic and he doesn't care a lot about ipods anyway
17:43:44Dreamxtremei learn whatever if i have to get one
17:43:54Dreamxtremei bought a ipod classic just for rockbox
17:46:13LambdaCalculus37I can help with a port, but I'm not a very good programmer.
17:46:41gevaertsThis is your chance to learn!
17:47:51Dreamxtremei'll defo help
17:48:01LambdaCalculus37The port page needs to be updated if necessary:
17:49:29LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: I know you did make a little bit of progress. Could you document that on the wiki?
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17:52:13TheSevenLambdaCalculus37: is more up to date
17:52:25LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: Mind if I can copy/paste it over to our wiki?
17:53:09TheSevenyou can of course do that
17:53:42gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: don't copy/paste *too* directly
17:54:08TheSevenalso, even though this is certainly similar to the nano2g, it's probably most similar to the nano3g, which uses the same SoC
17:54:13gevaerts"Yes" on freemyipod means "possible" for rockbox, not "done" :)
17:54:30LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Of course. :)
17:55:37LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: Actually, I'm not going to copy/paste since the chart on freemyipod says all. But I'm going to write down what does work at least.
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17:56:43LambdaCalculus37TheSeven: What does work thus far?
17:57:03TheSevenin embios? basically everything that has a "yes" in that table
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17:59:30LambdaCalculus37Okay, I made a little note that mentions that everything that works so far is in the table.
18:00:41gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: maybe update the URL, and clarify that it works in embios, not in rockbox?
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18:02:20LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: "This work is for emBIOS, no actual code for Rockbox has been written yet."
18:02:22TheSevenhaha, rockbox as an emBIOS app? :P
18:02:26amee2kkugel: your android app port is in rockbox/android, right?
18:02:47kugelthere and in firmware/target/hosted/android
18:02:56amee2kah, i see
18:03:53amee2kand all the device depenent stuff lives in rockbox/firmware?
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18:09:04LambdaCalculus37IIRC the Classic doesn't follow the iPod standard of a separate firmware partition + storage partition, correct?
18:09:07kugelamee2k: yes, android/ has the java layer
18:09:37amee2kright, but i mean in general as well
18:10:04gevaertsnot really
18:10:25gevaertsthings like firmware/common aren't very device dependent
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18:14:27amee2khmmm okay, let me rephrase
18:14:58amee2kif its device dependant, it goes into /firmware, right? (not implying the other way around)
18:15:42gevaertsIt depends :)
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18:16:16amee2ki'm just trying to make sense of the directory structure her e>_<
18:16:20gevaertsI'd say probably, but not *directly* because it's device dependent
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18:16:40gevaertsHardware support is usually going to be firmware/
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18:17:21gevaertsFor the application, OS support can be seen as equivalent to hardware
18:18:00amee2kyeah, all the application ports seem to go into firmware/hosted
18:18:32gevaertsBasically apps/ is going to be application layer, while firmware/ is going to be OS and/or kernel layer. That's a bit vague of course
18:19:12amee2kbut the kernel has device dependant and general parts?
18:19:28amee2kor is a port basically a reimplementation of the kernel
18:19:45gevaertsthe former
18:21:28gevaertsThere are drivers, there's basic support for things like context switches (which is more CPU dependent rather than device dependent), and there are some general parts like the FAT driver, C library things, unicode handling,...
18:23:13gevaertsMaybe a good way to describe it could be that apps/ is everything you'd throw away if you wouldn't want an audio player but something entirely different, while firmware/ would stay
18:23:34gevaertsAlthought that's of course not clear-cut either
18:23:42amee2khmm i see
18:24:15gevaertsYou get used to it, and then it's obvious :)
18:24:30amee2khm... new analogy
18:24:57amee2kall the stuff in firmware forms a HAL?
18:25:00*gevaerts tends to see firmware/ as those bits he feels confortable working in, and apps/ as icky and unfamiliar
18:25:30amee2k(which um... is sort of a barebones kernel by some definitions anyway)
18:25:45gevaertsIt's a bit more than that (I wouldn't see unicode and font support as part of a HAL), but yes
18:26:19amee2kbut at least it means i'm getting somewhere in my head :)
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18:27:25gevaertsOne basic rule is that apps/ can call firmware/, but the reverse is not allowed (except for callbacks, but that's a different sort of call)
18:27:40kugelmeh, I uploaded the patch too early
18:28:13amee2kso if i wanted to interpret a syscall interface into this structure, it would go into all the calls from apps to firmware?
18:28:30gevaertsAlthough of course this being the real world we have one or two exceptions to that rule :)
18:29:27gevaertsA bit higher than that I'd say (although we don't do syscalls of course)
18:29:53gevaertsC library support is in firmware/
18:30:16amee2kwell, a syscall interface, even if its technically implemented as regular calls, helps me make a logical division between a user space and a kernel space
18:30:38gevaertsYes, but those aren't really good terms to think in
18:30:49gevaertsWell, not for rockbox
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18:32:05kugelrockbox has no user space :)
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18:33:41amee2kdon't make me scratch my head... i was just about to think i'm getting somewhere
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18:59:29the_KyleI am visually impaired and trying to install Rockbox on a Sansa Clip+. Everything I'm reading says that in order for the new firmware to install, the player has to be in MSC mode, and that auto doesn't work. Can someone who has access to a Clip+ with the original firmware tell me what buttons I need to press to change this setting?
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19:39:20kugelFS #11793
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20:02:24saratogaAlexP: ban salome4411 please
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20:25:35CIA-7New commit by Bryant (r28736): make WavPack library check the extent of the block that it is parsing so that it cannot run into the next block; also enhance the metadata code to ...
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20:27:40CIA-7r28736 build result: All green
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20:44:14kugelgevaerts: do you think FS #11793 is a good idea?
20:44:58gevaertsI think so, yes
20:45:19gevaertsI don't know if other people will agree though
20:45:48kugelit won't work for android unfortunately
20:45:53CIA-7New commit by b0hoon (r28737): HDD6330: implement lcd_yuv_blit() function. The inner loop is written in assembler and the entire function is about 20% faster than the original from ...
20:47:13gevaertsWhat's different about android?
20:47:33kugelno swapcontext on it
20:47:46CIA-7r28737 build result: All green
20:50:34kugelbut I have the feeling that the sim runs more smooth
20:52:00gevaertsIn that case I think we definitely want it
20:52:28gevaertsIt would be nice to be able to use the same mechanism everywhere, but if we can make the SDL app better, we should
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20:53:34kugelit does use a bit less cpu
20:54:26n1sthat would be nice for the sdl app on weaker machines as it buns quite a few cycles doing nothing right now
20:54:31gevaertsright, apparently uclibc doesn't do makecontext/swapcontext
20:58:48kugelgevaerts: there's another approach which suppsedly works on any unix (the one that pth uses as fallback when swapcontext isn't available), but it's a lot more complex so I didn't bother
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21:00:42gevaertskugel: if it really makes a difference, maybe someone should do it anyway though
21:01:57kugelsomeone, sure :)
21:06:39kugelthe other approach is *really* tricky
21:08:42gevaertsHow do you switch between threading models?
21:09:33gevaertsI mean, if I apply that patch, how does the build decide what to pick, and how can I check what it did?
21:10:12kugelit adds -DHAVE_UCONTEXT to the makefile
21:10:16saratogalots of iddefs i guess
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21:10:26gevaertsah, ok
21:11:07gevaerts/home/fg/rockbox/firmware/target/hosted/sdl/thread-unix.c:41: warning: warning: getcontext is not implemented and will always fail
21:11:13gevaertsThat says enough I guess :)
21:12:39kugelso they implement it but let it always fail?
21:12:51gevaertsThat's glibc on arm
21:13:19 Quit evilnick__ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:13:28kugelon arm we could use our arm asm for context switching
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21:17:15*gevaerts doesn't know too much about that code, so he can't comment
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21:26:47kugelgevaerts: I guess your case can be checked at configure time
21:27:10kugelwhat version is glibc on your phone?
21:28:26gevaertsThat's not going to help much thoguh
21:28:34gevaertsIt depends on architecture, not version
21:29:51kugelbut it's perhaps implemented it later versions
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21:34:21kugelhow do you know? I fail at browsing the glibc sources :\
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21:37:55kugelthe last comment worries me
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21:38:48kugelbsd libc has something for swapcontext on arm
21:39:59kugelbut pth did run on my mini board so there's a way. I assume the fallback approach is taken
21:41:23saratogai'm not sure how involved the context is on arm, but couldn't you save the stack and and registers yourself?
21:42:59kugelarm is not a problem
21:44:35saratogathe standard library function works on x86, so what else is needed?
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21:59:51kugelnetbsd has *context() for arm so I don't understand why eglibc doesn't have it
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22:43:25scorchegevaerts: sure, but then those who worked on the site need to evaluate what they are doing to the database...the forums database is a *hell* of a lot bigger than that and i am not using caching there either really
22:44:19gevaertsscorche: it's also not using sqlite I presume
22:44:32scorchethere is that...
22:44:38gevaertssqlite really wasn't designed for parallel access
22:47:09gevaertsI mainly wanted to say that ust growing the database (or number of simultaneous users) can easily have caused the same code to suddenly not work very well
22:47:20gevaertsThere doesn't have to be a recent change
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22:47:52scorchemaybe we need to look at moving it to mysql then...
22:48:08scorcheeither way, their input would be good =)
22:49:14*gevaerts nods
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23:01:32CIA-7New commit by Bryant (r28738): remove a little redundant code from the WavPack metadata module to partially make up for the code just added
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23:03:31CIA-7r28738 build result: All green
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23:09:58JdGordonkugel: for the plugins problem, we should just have a plugindata dir which is in a writeable place and not overlapping with the ./rockbox/rocks directory
23:10:08JdGordonpossibly even do that for all targets
23:10:13pamaurybertrik: any progress in fuze+ firmware analysis ?
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23:16:26bertrikpamaury, no I didn't have time for that this weekend
23:17:02pamauryok, neither me
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23:23:49kugelJdGordon: I only hope we find something that doesn't involve changing all plugins
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23:53:48marineswhat audio codec eats the least cpu on rockbox during playback?
23:54:15n1smarines: see CodecPerformanceComparison page in the wiki
23:55:01n1sbut it depends a bit on what you want, i'd guess recular pcm/wav files to require next to no cpu to play
23:56:31gevaertsIf you're interested in battery life, CPU usage isn't the only thing to keep in mind, especially on hard disk players
23:56:35marinesi don't know why i didn't find this page
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23:56:40n1sflac is very fast too and of the lossy mp3 and mpc are very fast
23:56:56marinesi'm using sansa c200v2
23:57:14marinesi'd like to increase duration of playback on battery
23:57:29n1smarines: what codec are you using now?
23:57:42marinesit's very good now but it's good to know how to make it better
23:58:29marinesand i'm using external card
23:58:30n1sthe numbers on that page are very strange for the AS3525 cpu
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23:58:50n1sbut i don't think you will save much by switching to another codec

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