#rockbox 2010-12-24

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#rockbox log for 2010-12-24

00:00:03		Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
00:00:03	Clipper	and i needed it just to remove one nasty virus
00:00:24	kugel	maybe libusb?
00:00:48	Clipper	two days later kaspersky released automatic uninstaller for that virus
00:02:25	Clipper	Torne: so ive used dependancy walker on rockboxutility.exe
00:05:27	Clipper	IESHIMS.DLL WER.DLL <−−- missing
00:06:11	Clipper	MPR.DLL <−−- something about wrong functions or missing
00:06:37		Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving)
00:08:01		Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.)
00:11:29	soap	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11830 <-Buschel, gevaerts, maraz
00:13:32	maraz	check.
00:16:01	Buschel	soap: added a short comment
00:16:44	soap	I'll check the upper 4 bits as soon as I figure out why said ipod is getting mounted read-only ;)
00:16:59	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:19:16	Buschel	I expect that w/o DMA 0x20000000 is not set at all
00:23:50	soap	ok, where do I find that?
00:24:16	Buschel	oh, you'll need to add some code to the debug screen
00:31:00	Buschel	soap: e.g. add a new lcd_putsf(...) to dbg_ports() in debug-pp.c
00:32:12	Clipper	30 is default rockbox contrast?
00:32:39		Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:35:21	soap	haha, Buschel, you overestimate me. I'll try.
00:36:38	Buschel	always good to have new challenges ;)
00:37:11	Torne	Clipper: the default contrast is different on different devices
00:37:21	soap	don't tell me yet, let me test my build.
00:37:30	Torne	if you want to reset any setting to the default, you can long press select on the setting to get the context menu up, there's a reset to default option there
00:45:08	moos	rasher: ping?
00:48:10	soap	Buschel, 20150020 seem like a real result? ;)
00:48:38	soap	lcd_putsf(0, line++, "IDE0_CFG: %08lx", IDE0_CFG);
00:48:40	soap	is all I added
00:49:05	gevaerts	should be good
00:49:07	Buschel	sounds good
00:49:31	Buschel	this is with DMA, right?
00:49:37	soap	with
00:49:41	Buschel	unboosted
00:49:45	soap	correct
00:50:06	Buschel	boosted it becomes 30150020 ?
00:50:56	soap	yes
00:51:21	Buschel	ok, can you rebuild w/o DMA now?
00:52:08	rasher	moos: Yeah?
00:52:13		Quit utanapischti (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:53:21	Clipper	Hmmmm
00:53:42	Clipper	Im trying to create radio station rpeset in my sansa clip+
00:53:46	Clipper	preset*
00:53:49	soap	Buschel, working on modifying ata-pp5020.c
00:54:17	Clipper	Problem is, i dont know how to accept radio station name i assigned
00:55:21	the_Kyle	Clipper: hold select once the name is as you want it. It's a standard virtual keyboard there.
00:55:42	*	The_Seven wonders how to proceed with the ipod classic rockbox port
00:55:47	the_Kyle	Also, be sure to save your preset list.
00:55:49	Buschel	how? comment the two lines as I proposed? to switch off DMA you just need to comment HAVE_ATA_DMA in ipodnano1g.h
00:56:15	The_Seven	i still have no idea what codec it uses, or how to access I2S
00:56:37	The_Seven	should i try porting things now, or continue digging up more hardware first?
00:57:29	soap	now you've confused me Buschel. Should I be commenting out the lines in ata-pp5020.c or not?
00:57:59	Llorean	The_Seven: sometimes just getting the UI running and interactive can get a lot of attention that can bring people in who might know or be able to discover details we can't, so I tend to lean toward "do what you can do, then investigate more"
00:58:26	The_Seven	the question is if i can bring up the UI without an audio driver...
00:58:55	gevaerts	The_Seven: I'd suspect a very minimal stub driver will be enough for that
00:59:19	Buschel	soap: let me clarify -> we are talking of two things 1) disabling DMA (commenting HAVE_ATA_DMA in ipodnano1g.h) to measure IDE0_CFG w/o DMA, 2) test a possible solution (commenting out 2 lines in ata-pp5020.c)
00:59:21	The_Seven	...which needs to contain half a dozen defines at least :)
00:59:38	soap	ahh, now I fully understand. That makes sense.
00:59:49	Buschel	:)
00:59:49	soap	sorry about the bone head.
01:00
01:00:08	Buschel	well, just a bit of overlapped ideas ;)
01:02:59	Buschel	soap: after all of this testing your nano should be warm enough to easily check the possible fix :)
01:03:00	Clipper	And how can i save calendar options?
01:05:02	soap	00158020 and 10158020
01:06:36	The_Seven	hm, should i put the pagetable in iram?
01:08:08		Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me))
01:08:39	Buschel	soap: now enable DMA again and just comment line 124 in ata-pp5020.c (IDE0_CFG \|= 0x20000000)
01:09:13	moos	rasher: Hi. I thought that genlang could handle the use of a string multiple times, but apparently I canot. I wanted to reuse one string instead of adding a new one. Do you know how hard it could be to fix this?
01:10:10	soap	just 124? Not 1009?
01:10:12	soap	*109
01:10:20	soap	Buschel,
01:10:30	The_Seven	hm, actually it isn't very clever to let me do a (rather tedious, if done for the first time) port bringup instead of letting me do RE work :)
01:10:39	Buschel	soap: yes, at a first shot just 124
01:10:50	pixelma	Clipper: do you really mean the calendar plugin or the time and date screen?
01:11:32	pixelma	also, maybe you'll find the answers in our manual, I don't own a Clip so can't tell you more anyway
01:12:11	rasher	moos: Not sure what you mean?
01:12:40	soap	I really should stop making everything and just make the binary
01:12:47	Buschel	soap: ata_dma_set_mode() is only called once at startup. so, line 109 should not have relevant impact as this value will be set in the clock scaling with each call. but 0x20000000 will be kept until the next restart.
01:13:07	Buschel	soap: yes, rockbox.ipod is needed. not all the rest
01:14:51	saratoga	The_Seven: the Classic needs a page table?
01:14:56	The_Seven	yep
01:15:29	The_Seven	there is no other way (that i know of) to configure memory region cache attributes (basically prevent caching of MMIO)
01:15:56	Torne	Indeed
01:16:12	saratoga	does it actually use VM then, or can you just set one big page or something like that
01:16:17	Torne	You can't not use the MMU on ARMs that have one unless you also don't use the cache
01:16:20	moos	rasher: I wanted to creat a new id to lang used in 2 situations. reffering to http://pastie.org/1400705
01:16:25	Clipper	can i delete some of rockbox files? like games older?
01:16:29	Clipper	folder***
01:16:37	Torne	saratoga: you can just make a page directory mapping all of ram in 1MB sections
01:16:41	Torne	you don't need second level page tables
01:16:47	Torne	but you have to make at least that.
01:16:54	The_Seven	saratoga: we'll probably configure it with 1MB granularity
01:17:01	The_Seven	(what torne just said)
01:17:05	saratoga	makes sense
01:17:27	rasher	moos: Well that must be possible. What errors are you getting?
01:17:51	The_Seven	with some tricks (and the main/codec iram split being on a 16K boundary) we might only waste 4K of iram for the page table
01:17:57	rasher	moos: Also, I don't know much at all about that part, so I'm probably not the most qualified to answer
01:18:09	saratoga	how much IRAM is there?
01:18:13	soap	PANIC Dir entry 6 in sector 4 is not free! A4 A2 ED 4C
01:18:14	The_Seven	we could also just put it into DRAM, but i have no idea how that will perform
01:18:15	The_Seven	256K
01:18:19	moos	rasher: error: redeclaration of enumerator ‘LANG_FILESIZE’
01:18:21	moos	note: previous definition of ‘LANG_FILESIZE’ was here
01:18:24	saratoga	thats so much its not a big deal IMO
01:18:35	saratoga	128k is enough for most codecs
01:18:49		Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
01:18:56	moos	rasher: ok, thanks anyway, I'll try to catch Bagder or n1s if I can
01:18:59	rasher	moos: That's pretty much out of my league. No idea
01:19:22	moos	np, thanks
01:19:34	Buschel	soap: then change line 124 from \|= 0x20000000 to \|= 0x10000000
01:19:43	*	moos don't know why he thought that was possible
01:19:44	Torne	It should be fine in DRAM, but the pagetable is 16KB
01:19:48	Torne	er, page directory
01:19:51	Torne	it's not like x86
01:19:57	Torne	ARM maps 1KB per pagetable, not 4KB
01:20:05	soap	maybe I got it too hot? I'm not using the same methodology to quickly heat that I was before.
01:20:05		Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
01:20:28	Torne	If it's just a few dozen section mappings then the TLB will hit most of the time and it won't actually have to read the memory often
01:20:32	soap	fonts are corrupted on reboot.
01:20:32	Torne	so, i don't think it needs to be in iram
01:21:01	Clipper	Is there any way to speed up audiobook read speed in rockbox?
01:21:23	Clipper	Sansa Clip OF has such an option
01:21:33	Clipper	if its not in rockbox, i proudly suggest adding it
01:21:46	Llorean	Clipper: A good idea is reading through the manual. You'll find a lot of basic questions answered there.
01:21:59	Clipper	Llorean: i am but i cant find that one
01:22:11	The_Seven	Torne: we have a 30-bit address bus here, so only the first 4K are actually used
01:22:33	Llorean	Clipper: Are you actually reading through it, or are you searching for specific terms and hoping what you call it matches what we call it? :)
01:22:38	Torne	The_Seven: ah
01:22:49		Quit timccc1 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:22:50	The_Seven	so we could re-use the other 12K as codec IRAM
01:23:06	Torne	The_Seven: well, you don't have to map it 1:1 anyway
01:23:14	Buschel	soap: does changing 0x2... to 0x1... help?
01:23:25	Clipper	Llorean: i was searching for audiobook and i couldnt find it, but not i found timestretch option ;)
01:23:32	The_Seven	(yeah, that could cause very undesirable effects when memory >0x3fffffff is accessed
01:23:46	Torne	you could split it
01:23:48	The_Seven	that wouldn't be just wrapping any more but doing Weird Things(tm) instead)
01:23:58	Torne	it's ARMv6 right?
01:24:07	Torne	so there's two page directory base registers
01:24:12	The_Seven	v5 i think, ARM9e
01:24:18	Torne	one for the bottom N, one for the top X-N
01:24:20	Torne	oh
01:24:23	Torne	then no
01:24:45	Torne	ARMv6 you can split the address space and have two page directories for it (for user vs kernel mappings)
01:24:52	Torne	so you could put one in IRAM and one in DRAM :)
01:24:58	Torne	but i don't think that exists on v5
01:25:10	saratoga	weee more arm9e
01:25:57	soap	Buschel, I'll try tomorrow. "Dinner" was just called up the stairs.
01:26:21	The_Seven	saratoga: there's also ARM11 ahead (nano4g)
01:26:31	Buschel	soap: ok, just keep me up-to-date :)
01:26:58	soap	Will do. Thanks for all your attention.
01:26:58		Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:26:59	saratoga	cool
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01:27:07	saratoga	having a flash based arm11 device would be fun to work with
01:27:33	The_Seven	should be similar to the beast (they apparently re-used an ipod touch SoC for that one)
01:27:39	Buschel	good night
01:27:43		Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
01:27:52	The_Seven	so it should be pretty damn powerful for that kind of device
01:28:43	The_Seven	wee! more undefined references than my scrollback goes back!
01:28:59	saratoga	JdGordon: what needed to be fixed in the lang files for fs#11748?
01:29:45	[AndrewR]	lately when I build rockbox, it lags on GEN version.h, and if I run top I see "svnversion"
01:30:00	[AndrewR]	anyone know how I can speed that up?
01:30:02	*	The_Seven runs away from those dozens of problems and goes back to reversing the OF for now, trying to dig up the audio driver
01:30:19	[AndrewR]	it lags on svnversion for like 1-2 minutes sometimes
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01:31:55	JdGordon\|	saratoga: I'll reply in the tracker
01:32:11		Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.)
01:33:43		Nick The_Seven is now known as [7] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
01:34:57	kugel	[7]: don't you need only a few stubs?
01:35:29	[7]	a few hundred stubs... and i'm running into problems with the ata driver architecture anyway
01:37:16		Quit mortalscan (Remote host closed the connection)
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01:39:58		Quit timccc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:40:00	JdGordon\|	rasher: changing a string from "foo: none" to "foo: some text" will break lang and voice files righ?
01:40:05	JdGordon\|	right*
01:40:20	rasher	I believe so
01:40:26	kugel	i doubt, have you maybe HWCAPS defined from c&p of another <target>.h file? these will pull in some stubs
01:40:29	rasher	Not 100% sure
01:40:32	kugel	[7]: ^
01:40:52	saratoga	I read that reply but have no idea what you're talking about
01:40:59	saratoga	how does the voice system work?
01:41:04	JdGordon\|	MAGIC!
01:41:06	saratoga	or lang system i gues?
01:42:21	JdGordon\|	my understanding is that .lng and .voice files have an index at the start which points to an offset where a given id is (the text or voice)
01:42:42	JdGordon\|	if the LANG_ID is changed (one was added or order changes) the wrong id will get pointed to
01:43:00	JdGordon\|	this is why the order in english.lang is important
01:43:55	JdGordon\|	deprecating a string doesnt affect the order because an empty placeholder is put in and the old id isnt actually used in the code anymore
01:44:07	JdGordon\|	but undeprecating a string probably has dangerous effects
01:44:16	rasher	JdGordon\|: I'd ask B4gder about the none -> "something" thing
01:44:19	kugel	if it works this way I could rename an ID without problems, right? I'm asking because of moos' patch
01:44:33	JdGordon\|	simple rename, yes
01:45:06	rasher	kugel: do it in all langs (langtool can do it for you iirc)
01:45:08	rasher	or sed, of course
01:45:11	JdGordon\|	I'll be AFK by the time B4gder is back online, if you see the question please reply :)
01:45:20	kugel	but from "rec: text" to "*: text" breaks, right?
01:45:48	JdGordon\|	thats the question
01:45:48	moos	kugel: my problem is I want ti use the string in recording and in screen
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01:47:56	moos	the same string
01:49:33	JdGordon\|	the way to check if to look at the code that generates the .lng files and see how it handles none
01:49:50	JdGordon\|	if it writes "" it is probably safe
01:50:11	JdGordon\|	except people with outdated .lng and voice files will get no output for the line
01:50:15	JdGordon\|	which is probaly just as bad
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01:51:16	kugel	no output is better than wrong output
01:51:38	JdGordon\|	not really
01:51:40	JdGordon\|	both suck
01:52:08	kugel	then you always need new voice files with every binary
01:52:18	JdGordon\|	genlang is perl so im not looking at it to try to understand it :D
01:52:21		Quit timccc (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:52:42	kugel	in which case we wouldn't have to worry about compatibility
01:52:47	JdGordon\|	no, because langs almost never change in a way which makes old lang files not work
01:52:57	JdGordon\|	that is by design
01:53:00	kugel	there's no guarantee though
01:53:11		Quit moos (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:53:22	JdGordon\|	there is a fairly good implicit understanding that it wont happen
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01:53:26	kugel	and new strings without new langs/voice will give no output
01:53:35	JdGordon\|	no, they give the english output
01:53:41	JdGordon\|	again, by design
01:53:48	kugel	well, langs yes, but not voice
01:53:54	JdGordon\|	sure
01:54:27	JdGordon\|	the point is we dont activly break lang and voice files
01:54:28	kugel	voice can't have the strings that didn't exist at the time it was generated
01:54:41	JdGordon\|	well obviously
01:54:51	kugel	-> no output
01:55:11	JdGordon\|	VOICE ONLY
02:00
02:04:33		Quit Kitar\|st (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:07:31	[7]	good news: the ipod classic of contains the string "MeCCA"
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04:19:50	moos	hehe, silly me :)
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04:31:45	CIA-7	New commit by moos (r28886): Add "file size" to the track information screen of WPS. ...
04:33:48	CIA-7	r28886 build result: All green
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04:44:13	CIA-7	New commit by moos (r28887): Update translations reusing the translation of the previously deprecated string. ...
04:48:16	CIA-7	r28887 build result: 0 errors, 177 warnings (moos committed)
04:53:10	CIA-7	New commit by moos (r28888): Fix yellow, english.lang string was deprecated.
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05:26:21	CIA-7	New commit by moos (r28889): Adjust a string translation in french, no more pure tag viewer since a while now. That's more a track information viewer.
05:28:05	CIA-7	r28889 build result: All green
05:30:38	JdGordon1	moos: 28887 looks wrong... shouldnt that "recording:" line just be removed?
05:31:28	JdGordon1	oh sorry, ignore me :D
05:31:38	moos	hehe :)
05:31:57	moos	too slow! already in holidays? :p
05:32:12	JdGordon1	indeed
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08:58:28	CIA-7	New commit by jdgordon (r28890): Fix FS #11829 - %?xx<....> Crashes on targets where the %xx feature tag isnt avilable. rather hacky fix though better than crashing.
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08:59:13	JdGordon\|	^ that commit is a hack, but better than crashing....
08:59:35	JdGordon\|	If i get time this weekend I'm going to rewrite the section so feature tags are handled differently to the conditionals so it isnt nasty anymore
08:59:51	JdGordon\|	they should be handled as a no-op instead of a conditional check
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09:00:26	CIA-7	r28890 build result: All green
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11:10:17	n1s	hmm, the recent english.lang diffs will break the string order on some targets
11:10:42	n1s	i wonder if we could come up with a better system for this stuff :/
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11:13:06	Llorean	What does breaking the string order break?
11:13:36	n1s	voice files from older revisions will play the wrong clip in some cases
11:14:04	Llorean	Wouldn't the solution be to put a version number in voice files, and refuse to use them if they aren't compatible with the current .lang?
11:15:04	Llorean	Is there some reason we want people using old voice files?
11:15:45	*	TheSeven has evidence that the ipod classic OF uses OpenGL
11:16:23	n1s	that is a solution but a) not very nice for blind users since voice will just stop working for them whithout any feedback ( the idea has come up to make for example the first clip an error like "Voice file out of date" that could play on version mismatches and b) would still require someone to manually update the version when breaking the order and it seems not many people realize when that happens
11:17:41	Llorean	n1s: Would it be possible to just compare the number of voice clips to lang strings and consider it broken if there's a mismatch? As for presenting feedback, maybe revert to "spell" when the voice file doesn't match so they can navigate the menus by spelled entries as a fallback.
11:17:57	Llorean	That would of course require a subset of the voice file to be loaded, I assume
11:18:27	n1s	that could work if the spelling clips are ok
11:18:36	n1s	i don't remember if they are
11:19:00	Llorean	Is it possible to put them first and just say "don't mess with these"?
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11:20:00	n1s	the problem with the current system is that ID's get reused if we delete a clip so they are reserved by deprecating old ID's but if a target didn't use the id it never had it and what happened here is that all targets were marked as not having the clip (*: none)
11:20:12	Llorean	I know spelling is far from ideal, but it seems like falling back to spelled menu entries as soon as Rockbox detects even a potential mismatch is better than having it read random strings for entries.
11:21:11	Llorean	So in the current situation, the total count of clips would've increased, no?
11:21:12	n1s	yes, that would probably work for a fallback but the detection isn't easy
11:21:57	n1s	targets that didn't have the REC_SIZE clip are unaffected and the others have the order broken
11:22:53	n1s	just comparing number of voice clips with number of lang ids will trigger when a voice file is just missing the most recent voice clip too
11:23:32	Llorean	While that won't mess with the order, that still leaves an entry in the menus unvoiced right? What happens currently when a user highlights an unvoiced entry?
11:24:23	n1s	Llorean: yes, currently i think it just isn't voiced, not sure though
11:24:27	Llorean	I mean, I think it'd be generally good to let people know they should update in that situation too, honestly.
11:24:29	n1s	i imagine a scheme where id's are reserved globally and once deprecated, just not used
11:25:02	n1s	yes, i agree
11:25:30	Llorean	I seem to recall rebuilding voice files if you hadn't cleared the cached clips was very quick anyway.
11:26:14	Llorean	I wonder how many people knowingly use the same voice file with multiple builds, and how many update when they download a new build even if they don't need to.
11:26:36	Llorean	It'd be interesting to know how many this current situation is likely to even affect. :)
11:27:24	linuxstb	TheSeven: Is your work on the Classic documented anywhere? Have you published any working code?
11:27:44	n1s	the "wrong clips are voiced" thing comes up from time to time but i have no idea how common it is, but anyway our current system isn't failing very gracefully
11:28:11	TheSeven	linuxstb: http://websvn.freemyipod.org/listing.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Fembios%2Ftrunk%2Ftarget%2Fipodnano3g%2F&#aa14da1f104b73a9a923c44d98c2579f1
11:28:35	TheSeven	all the ipodnano3g code in here is currently shared with the ipod classic
11:28:47	TheSeven	the ipodclassic folder only contains the classic-specific bits
11:30:41	linuxstb	Do you know if the three (?) generations of the classic are the same?
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11:32:13	linuxstb	So the nano3g's LCD is the same as the Classic?
11:35:13	TheSeven	there seem to have been small changes in some init sequences between the ipod classic 1g and 3g, and fourth lcd type was added at some point (there also are some 1g 160gb classics with the new lcd type, so i'd guess that this was done in the middle of 1g production)
11:35:31	TheSeven	the nano3g and classic lcd driver are binary identical
11:36:00	TheSeven	i haven't tested any nano3g lcd code yet because we have no clue about its PMU
11:36:55	linuxstb	How do you run your own code at the moment?
11:37:05	TheSeven	i have a DFU bootstrapper
11:37:39	TheSeven	(umsboot as a pwnage2.0 exploit payload)
11:38:04	linuxstb	So the ipod needs to be attached to a PC to boot?
11:38:40	TheSeven	we can also flash a bootloader
11:38:42	amiconn	n1s: The problem with better schemes is that they're significantly more expensive in terms of ram and binsize
11:39:12	amiconn	As long as the rules are observed, wrong clips shouldn't happen with the current system
11:39:14	TheSeven	i have flashed iloader on mine, but if you just want to do non-invasive testing, you can bootstrap it all from RAM
11:39:46	n1s	amiconn: but the rules arent' observed
11:40:15	linuxstb	TheSeven: OK, so you've ported iloader to the classic? What's embios?
11:40:21	TheSeven	yep
11:40:38	TheSeven	embios is basically a small kernel + hardware abstraction layer used by my newer tools
11:40:44	linuxstb	So I'm guessing you've done no actual work on a Rockbox port yet?
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11:41:38	TheSeven	i've plugged some things together (partly still nano2g code), and fixed it until it compiled, but it still doesn't link
11:42:18	TheSeven	the iloader binary for the nano2g and classic is the same btw, the hardware differences are handled by embios
11:43:14	TheSeven	i have most of the important drivers up and running in embios, only audio is still missing
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11:44:16	n1s	amiconn: including the unused ID's everywhere would cost only 3 bytes per string in the lang file and remove the whole feature change problem, which is the trickiest and least ovious one (i.e. a change in a target's config can change the string sincluded)
11:45:11	TheSeven	linuxstb: the actual rockbox work i've done so far boils down to an afternoon of figuring out how to add a new port
11:45:19	amiconn	It would also cost an additional 4 bytes of RAM per unused string on target
11:45:35	n1s	right
11:45:45	amiconn	(for the pointer)
11:45:55	TheSeven	but the rockbox and embios driver interfaces are quite similar (embios, for example, borrows most of rockbox's storage and file system code)
11:46:07	amiconn	And this would mean the lowest end targets (with the least features) would suffer mosz
11:46:12	linuxstb	TheSeven: Yes, given you seem to have written most of the code, the rockbox port itself doesn't look like much more work. Do you think what you've done is committable? I may have time over Christmsa to work on it.
11:46:37	TheSeven	not quite...
11:46:43	TheSeven	i can send you a patch though
11:46:51	amiconn	Btw, this applies both to voice and .lng, just that the latter is much less of a problem because all .lng files are usually in sync since they're shipped as part of the default installation
11:47:07	TheSeven	"the rockbox port itself doesn't look like much more work" is what I thought, too, but which proved wrong
11:47:28	TheSeven	(maybe because i'm not really familiar with a lot of rockbox's internals)
11:47:32	n1s	amiconn: yes, it's the voice files getting out of sync that's the problem
11:47:42	linuxstb	TheSeven: Yes, "not much work" if you know what to do...
11:48:34	n1s	amiconn: and the current system isn't working, IMO because the changes that can break the string/clip order are not obvious unless you have dug around in this)
11:48:59	linuxstb	TheSeven: But sure, send me the patch, or maybe open a FS task?
11:54:34	TheSeven	linuxstb: http://pastie.org/1402768
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11:54:56	TheSeven	i had a quick glance at the changes, and the only thing i seem to have copied straight from the nano2g is crt0.S
11:55:12	TheSeven	so this file will need a bunch of changes, i can do that later
11:55:39	TheSeven	if you give me something that compiles and links, i'll be happy to try figuring out why it doesn't boot :-P
11:56:09	n1s	hmm, instead of storing a pointer to each string we could store an offsett into the loaded lang file which would only need to be 16 bits (although the lookup would be a little less efficient)
11:56:45	n1s	and would only work as long as lang files don't grow beyond 14k
11:56:47	n1s	64k
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11:59:37	*	TheSeven found evidence of BDF fonts in the ipod classic OF
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12:06:27	amiconn	n1s: I've been thinking about verifying string ids on load, combined with only storing the valid ones as block start + block length
12:07:02	amiconn	In the binary, obviously, as some sort of compression
12:07:23	amiconn	If feature strings are grouped together, this should be fairly efficient
12:16:41	n1s	yes, that would be better
12:24:11	TheSeven	hm, FreeType...
12:24:30	TheSeven	apple seems to use lots of open source code in their firmwares :)
12:25:57	TheSeven	c:\bwa\N25FirmwareWin-435\srcroot\Firmware\Silver\3rdParty\freetype\src\base\ftutil.c
12:25:57	TheSeven	c:\bwa\N25FirmwareWin-435\srcroot\Firmware\Silver\3rdParty\freetype\src\base\ftstream.c",0
12:25:57	TheSeven	c:\bwa\N25FirmwareWin-435\srcroot\Firmware\Silver\3rdParty\freetype\src\base\ftobjs.c
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12:35:40	TheSeven	OpenSSL as well...
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12:41:26	Stephencc__	the seven: you can see the classic uses open source as in teh credits it has to lsit them
12:42:43	Stephencc__	altho I tihnk you've wiped your apple OS correct ? maybe someone who has access to theirs can check it for you
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13:22:54	*	TheSeven spots a postscript parser in the ipod classic OF...
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13:46:03	pamaury	a postscript parser ? To do what ?
13:46:32	TheSeven	no idea
13:46:40	TheSeven	probably postscript font support or something
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14:59:48	gevaerts	thomasjfox: I tried your patch from the 11th yesterday. I still had audio dropouts when switching the LCD on and off (using the side sliding button). Did you manage to get rid of those with your later work?
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15:00:24	gevaerts	Oh, and welcome! :)
15:00:56		Quit mortalscan (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
15:04:09	thomasjfox	Thanks
15:04:28	thomasjfox	I'm just writing my port announcement to rockbox-dev including the latest patch
15:04:34	thomasjfox	Just wait a few seconds ;)
15:09:02	thomasjfox	gevaerts: The audio dropouts were solved by the gstreamer based audio backend
15:09:08	gevaerts	Ah, excellent!
15:10:25	thomasjfox	One of the N900 support patches is already separated into FS #11834
15:10:40	gevaerts	Yes, I'm looking at that one now
15:12:44	kugel	do we really RGBSWAPPED in the sim if the target has it?
15:12:56	thomasjfox	Yes
15:13:03	thomasjfox	I tried it with the ipod nano 1g
15:13:08	kugel	i see
15:13:10	thomasjfox	And it all looked messed up
15:13:31	thomasjfox	I tried various players in the sim to make sure I didn't break the display code for those
15:13:51	thomasjfox	kugel: I tried your new tagcache fix for the symlinks. Works like a charm!
15:13:56	kugel	perhaps it's faster to swap the framebuffer and use the RGB case
15:14:20	kugel	thomasjfox: it does, unless you compile the linux kernel on the same machine :P
15:14:21	gevaerts	Do we care about LCD speed for simulators?
15:15:05	kugel	we surely didn't until now
15:15:18	gevaerts	I mean, optimising for the SDL app is needed of course, but the simulator is different I think
15:16:33	gevaerts	If an optimisation happens to work for a sim too, fine, but I don't think it makes sense to spend time optimising them specifically
15:17:09	thomasjfox	gevaerts: That's also the reason I gave up after two hours getting the RGB565SWAPPED case right
15:17:17	gevaerts	Yes, exactly :)
15:17:28	thomasjfox	I tried to tweak around the SDL_Pixelformat and the colors always ended up wrong...
15:17:55	thomasjfox	Also the SDL documentation states the "format" buffer is read-only.
15:18:03	gevaerts	thomasjfox: I think I'm going to add !defined(HAVE_LCD_SPLIT) to the optimised case. It's probably unlikely to ever happen on a colour display, but it will avoid surprises in the future
15:18:11	thomasjfox	Good idea
15:18:48	thomasjfox	kugel: You mentioned last time we could use native threads on the N900, too
15:19:20	thomasjfox	kugel: There was something about a wait_for_interrupt() routine that is missing?
15:19:44	kugel	yea
15:20:13	kugel	thomasjfox: I think you can also use kernel-android.c now (it's plain unix)
15:20:23	thomasjfox	Let me have a look
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15:21:15	kugel	but maybe not, sdl has more sohpisticated interrupt simulation
15:21:29	kugel	android doesn't implement enable/disable_irq
15:25:00	kugel	ah yes, some of my work is here: kugel-rb.git/shortlog/refs/heads/ucontext_thread">http://repo.or.cz/w/kugel-rb.git/shortlog/refs/heads/ucontext_thread
15:27:35	thomasjfox	Thanks
15:28:36	kugel	it makes the sdl port use our native threads via swapcontext, but the wait_for_interrupt() related stuff is the same
15:29:14	thomasjfox	wait_for_interrupt() is the same as before or the same as in the android port?
15:30:51	thomasjfox	Something different: I want to add a define for maemo.
15:31:02	kugel	if you use kernel-sdl.c then you need the one from my git repo, if you use kernel-android.c then take it from there
15:31:53	thomasjfox	kugel: I'll try with kernel-android.c first
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15:32:40	thomasjfox	The N900 uses an ARM v8 is maemo5 based
15:32:56	thomasjfox	I can imagine that rockbox would also run on the older N8xx series which is maemo 4 based
15:33:13	thomasjfox	Maemo 4 won't have the phone related APIs like maemo 5 does
15:33:14	kugel	very likely
15:33:21	kugel	the android port also runs on 1.5
15:33:26	thomasjfox	hehe
15:33:31	krazykit	i think soap was running a sim on his n8xx
15:34:03	kugel	thomasjfox: what do apps to shut up when a call comes in on maemo 4?
15:34:12	thomasjfox	Would it be a good idea add a PLATFORM_MAEMO5 define?
15:34:14	thomasjfox	Later on someone could add a PLATFORM_MAEMO4 define or PLATFORM_MEEGO define
15:34:25	kugel	on android we solve api incompatiblities via reflection in the java layer
15:34:26	soap	krazykit, not I
15:35:06	kugel	can you dlopen() the phone related API? That'd allow runtime detection (and no seperate defines, and thus no seperate binaries)
15:35:53	gevaerts	I don't think separate binaries are really a problem for maemo
15:36:21	gevaerts	I guess distribution would use the maemo.org repositories anyway
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15:37:58	thomasjfox	gevaerts: Yes, exactly
15:38:15	kugel	thomasjfox: the vast majority will be same same for maemo 4 and 5 no? if yes then I'd probably prefer a single PLATFORM_MAEMO define together with an extra MAEMO_VERSION define
15:38:32	thomasjfox	kugel: Sounds like a plan
15:38:59	kugel	otherwise you need CONFIG_PLATFORM & (PLATFORM_MAEMO4\|PLATFORM_MAEMO5) everywhere
15:39:10	thomasjfox	kugel: Yes, I wanted to avoid that if possible
15:39:22	kugel	unless of course you do #define PLATFORM_MAEMO (PLATFORM_MAEMO4\|PLATFORM_MAEMO5) :)
15:39:29	kugel	there's several ways to do it :)
15:39:29	thomasjfox	as the port uses much of the SDL platform, it will get a bit messy, too
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15:40:28	kugel	probably only in the beginning. in the mid and long term you probably want to replace sdl stuff with something tailored to unix/maemo
15:40:57	gevaerts	I'd guess display will always be SDL
15:41:52	thomasjfox	Or we could use Qt later on. Though the SDL output is now reasonable fast
15:43:14	gevaerts	I'd say that unless we ever get to the point where we use third-party widgets, Qt isn't going to be faster than SDL
15:43:31	gevaerts	Other things might be easier of course
15:46:08	kugel	thomasjfox: is there a global volume on the n900?
15:46:58	thomasjfox	btw: fs#9431 looks like it can be closed after all the recent RaaA work
15:47:08	kugel	on android there is, and we don't try to override that with rockbox' own volume control: the volume buttons on each device control the global volume and the rockbox volume can only be configured from the interface. I quite like it that way
15:47:12	thomasjfox	kugel: Yes, it gets modified by two hardware buttons
15:47:58	thomasjfox	kugel: The gstreamer audio backend automatically modifies the global volume
15:48:44	kugel	do you mean the volume bar in rockbox actually shows the global volume?
15:48:59	thomasjfox	I have to check if there can be a separate volume for the audio stream without much hassle
15:49:09	thomasjfox	Yes
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15:49:20	kugel	you can use software volume control via dsp, android does that
15:49:50	thomasjfox	the built in nokia player also modifies the global volume
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15:50:56	kugel	people appreciate that on android because the hardware buttons don't allow fine grained control, while rockbox own control does
15:53:37	thomasjfox	I have to check if a) I can easily change the volume for the audio stream only or b) how much CPU a software based volume change costs
15:53:38	kugel	well, I'm slightly wrong. android doesn't use the software volume capabilities of rockbox (it's there, the ondas need it), but the android api has another layer of volume control (also essentially software based)
15:54:07	kugel	volume change is the cheapest kind of dsp operation IIUC
15:55:55	kugel	isn't the n900 armv7?
15:56:42	kugel	does armv8 even exist?
15:59:12	thomasjfox	It says "ARM Cortex-A8-based" on the back. Have to check again
16:00
16:00:07	thomasjfox	You are right
16:00:09	thomasjfox	It's v7
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16:01:05	linuxstb	TheSeven: For some reason, pastie.org is only giving me the first 65535 bytes of that patch when I download it (with firefox, curl or wget) - can you try another site?
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16:04:25	kugel	thomasjfox: I suggest you create a real maemo target in the target tree, and compile the sdl bits you need via firmware/SOURCES. That'd make your patch easier to review
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16:06:12	thomasjfox	Ok
16:06:28	thomasjfox	Like I said, it's still very messy
16:06:50	thomasjfox	Can you help me a bit on the native arm threads?
16:07:21	thomasjfox	I tried copying the kernel-android.c over the kernel-sdl.c and also the thread-android-arm.c
16:07:42	kugel	what issues do you have?
16:08:02	fml	LambdaCalculus37: Hello. Could you please try and review FS #11827 ?
16:08:11	thomasjfox	Looks like I have to revert that and adjust the firmware/thread.c "if (ANDROID)"?
16:08:15	kugel	you woll need some stubs (or change change subs in system-target.h), the other sdl parts expect implementations android doesn't have
16:08:41	kugel	thread.c to include your thread-maemo-arm.c will also need adjustment, right
16:09:31	thomasjfox	Ok
16:09:52	thomasjfox	Guess it's best to create the maemo target tree first
16:10:08	LambdaCalculus37	fml: Added to my tasklist.
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16:11:00	LambdaCalculus37	fml: Does it work well for you so far?
16:11:50	kugel	gevaerts: did you give it a try already?
16:12:49	kugel	thomasjfox: I can have a look on your work on the DevConPubBerlin next week :) Maybe you want to join as well (if you're near Berlin)?
16:14:33	gevaerts	kugel: sorry, no, A bit busy with other things now
16:15:06	thomasjfox	kugel: Tuebingen is a bit far away ;)
16:17:04	thomasjfox	gevaerts: If you try it: The application runs in fullscreen mode right now. By pressing CTRL+BACKSPACE you switch windows
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16:17:23	thomasjfox	I have to leave for a bit, a friend just came over
16:18:01	gevaerts	Might not be today. I'll try
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16:22:05	LambdaCalculus37	thomasjfox: Maemo port? Nice. :)
16:22:52	kugel	thomasjfox: if you're using git you can publish repo on some hosting site so we can follow your progress more easily
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17:23:51	keanu	I realize this isn't directly rockbox related, but I'm kinda hoping someone knows or can point me in the right direction - if I've got an sdhc card with a broken pin (pin 8, DAT1) is there any way to recover the data?
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17:33:28	hrehf	hrm, i can't find where i set the time/date on my sandisk clip+, yet there's a seemingly functional time display (just set to the wrong time, ofc) −− is this possible?
17:34:11	gevaerts	http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch5.html#x8-1010005.12
17:36:14	hrehf	aaaah, there's settings/system and system/ :o
17:36:15	bertrik	hrehf, some people argue that date / time is not a setting :P
17:36:20	hrehf	hehe
17:36:54	hrehf	omg i never saw that and wass wondering why the clip+ wouldn't have it there (i googled it for generic and just saw system/ :D
17:36:59	hrehf	thanks ;-)
17:38:02	gevaerts	bertrik: it's the only logical conclusion!
17:38:24	gevaerts	Settings don't change unless you set them, therefore time can not be a setting!
17:38:56	hrehf	;-)
17:39:09	hrehf	also, rockdoom needs a better display on monochrome ;-)
17:39:48	gevaerts	On monochrome, or on the clip? It doesn't look too bad on monochrome LCDs
17:41:14	hrehf	hm, on the clip+
17:41:45	gevaerts	The problem is that the OLED display on those things is too fast, so temporal dithering doesn't quite work
17:42:14	gevaerts	On LCD turning the pixels on and off at that speed makes them stick at some grey level in between
17:42:38	hrehf	ah
17:42:44	hrehf	h
17:42:48	hrehf	yeah
17:42:57	hrehf	that's why in dark areas you only have random noise
17:43:19	hrehf	maybe it should have an option to disable lighting
17:43:25	*	hrehf is interested
17:43:57	gevaerts	Actually, I seem to remember someone on the forums who was working on a new .wad to help with this
17:44:00	*	gevaerts searches
17:44:28	hrehf	this seems like it is something the engine should help with
17:44:32	hrehf	or does it?
17:45:02	gevaerts	Lighting on its own isn't going to make much difference I'd expect
17:45:31	hrehf	hm
17:45:52	hrehf	well my observation is that the bright hallway in the firsst doom2 lvl works well
17:46:05	hrehf	and alle the dark rooms don't
17:46:29	gevaerts	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,25668.0.html
17:46:38	hrehf	you could probably try to adjust contrast for each texture so that there's about 50% bright pixels in each one
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17:48:22	hrehf	someone should port quake ;-)
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18:06:37	CIA-7	New commit by jethead71 (r28891): mc13783 RTC: Handle years in a better way for the use of struct tm. Make the code less general because all years evenly divisible by 4 in the day ...
18:08:27	CIA-7	r28891 build result: All green
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18:13:38	fml	LambdaCalculus37: yes and no. On the sim, it worked one time but not when I tried to repeat. I think it's because of dircache. But the current SVN code is wrong IMO since the suffix includes the trailing "/".
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18:48:56	knopper	hi
18:49:25	knopper	i have a small question how long does a rockbox port usually take?
18:52:59	Torne	depends how much of the hardware is documented
18:53:08	Torne	and how similar it is to existing targets
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18:53:40	Torne	if there's full docs for the chip and it has a similar dac/etc to something we already support, someone with experience could probably do it in a couple weeks to a functional level
18:53:53	Torne	if you have to reverse engineer everything and write a lot of new drivers, months or longer
18:54:09	knopper	i just at the wiki page of the sansa fuze, it it took nearly 2 years
18:54:35	knopper	so im hoping, the fuze+ port is available sooner ^^
18:56:33	Torne	the fuze port didn't take two years, really, i don't think
18:56:46	Torne	that may be how long froms omeone first looking at it until it was marked stable
18:56:54	Torne	but the beginning of that time likely had little/no work actally being done
18:57:21	knopper	i think it is still disassembled or?
18:57:22	knopper	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaFuzePlus
18:58:19	Torne	i don't know if anyone is even working on it at all yet
18:58:29	Torne	someone took one apart but that doesn't mean it's actually being ported
18:58:40	Torne	it's the same chip as another device that's being looked at, though
18:59:17	knopper	ok
19:00
19:00:33	knopper	the so called "Lyre project" stated that they have started working on it
19:00:33	knopper	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,26284.0.html
19:01:34	Torne	no, they're working on a different board with the same chip
19:01:47	Torne	so the work is relevant, but it's not a fuze+ port
19:02:08	Torne	pamaury is still at a pretty early stage with looking at the bootcode
19:02:23	knopper	so lets say, rockbox works on this chip, than it would be easy to make it work on a fuze+ ?
19:02:26	Torne	No
19:02:30	knopper	ok
19:02:55	knopper	so it is still many coding needed even if it works on it
19:02:57	Torne	i don't think we have a sensibel way to get anything installed on the fuze+ yet, we can decrypt its firmware updates but there's no unbricking process or anything
19:03:16	pamaury	especially because I had to restart analysis from scratch. But it shouldn't be too hard to get the pins for most peripheral now.
19:03:20	Torne	also, the other chips aren't gonna be the same; it helps a lot that the main system-on-chip is the same but there are some others
19:03:31	knopper	ok
19:03:33	Torne	also the lyre's port hasn't gotten very far yet either :)
19:03:40	Torne	so while effort can be shared, it's not already done
19:03:43	pamaury	Hum, the manual says that if you press power for 20seconds, the firmware is restored, but it's unclear how it works
19:03:54	Torne	pamaury: yeah, i read that, seems odd
19:04:14	pamaury	someone tried, he said it installed an older version than it had, so perhaps there is a copy somewhere
19:04:23	pamaury	*he had
19:04:37	Torne	presumably..
19:04:46	knopper	a port would be really nice because the fuze+ has the biggest display from all suported players until now
19:04:46	pamaury	yeah, of course
19:04:48	knopper	or?
19:06:52	pamaury	don't know, Torne might now such things ;)
19:06:55	pamaury	*know
19:07:04	Torne	what things?
19:07:10	pamaury	screen size
19:07:13	Torne	oh. duno
19:07:34	Torne	i still intend to do an omap3 port sometime eee, and that'd run on pandora/n900
19:07:36	Torne	800x480 :)
19:07:43	Torne	where did those e's come from
19:07:44	knopper	ah ok^^
19:07:45	pamaury	ouch
19:08:00	Torne	in fact i have an omap3 board with HDMI out
19:08:04	Torne	so it could probably do 720p ;)
19:09:32	thomasjfox	Torne: Check this http://www.mail-archive.com/rockbox-dev@cool.haxx.se/msg09207.html
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19:11:54	yelped	Does someone have a build enviroment set up, and is willing to compile rockbox for the Clip+ without radio?
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19:12:58	TheSeven	linuxstb: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-aae09737.html
19:13:50	pamaury	yelped: why without radio ?
19:14:23	Torne	thomasjfox: no, not as an application
19:14:38	Torne	native
19:15:19	thomasjfox	ah ok
19:15:29	kugel	on the n900?
19:15:41	Torne	not specifically on the n900, but it'll probably be little enough work that i might do it
19:15:56	Torne	the pandora, mostly
19:16:03	Torne	there's quite a few omap3 based devices out there
19:16:04	kugel	you must be insane :-)
19:17:13	Torne	heh
19:19:27	yelped	Because it's of no use to me and my friends. Just uses up space in the menu.
19:21:31	pamaury	wait a minute, I should be able to do that
19:21:47	pamaury	just need to figure out how to disable the radio
19:22:45	yelped	Thanks. Just disable it in the Menu. I recall this being in IRC about 6 months ago.
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19:23:36	pamaury	I don't know much the iu code, if I can just tweak a define in config header, it will be faster
19:25:45	kugel	thomasjfox: did you see my message about publishing your git repo?
19:26:37	thomasjfox	kugel: Yes, just have to find a nice place for it. Probably also the repo.or.cz one
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19:28:09	thomasjfox	Too bad rockbox doesn't have an official git server, then I could just put everything into a "maemo" branch
19:29:09	pamaury	arg, yelped just left
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19:44:16	yelped	Sorry, my computer just crashed.
19:44:35	pamaury	yeah, I have your build, just need to find a place where to upload it
19:44:49	yelped	Is Dropbox OK?
19:44:55		Quit thomasjfox (Quit: X-mas)
19:46:31	pamaury	Wait a minute, I'm uploading on mediafire
19:46:47	yelped	Great. Thanks a lot!
19:47:01	yelped	How's the Fuze+ port coming along?
19:47:48	pamaury	yelped: http://www.mediafire.com/?9jz9zvmjyrpxrcl
19:48:21	pamaury	I hope it's okay, I just remove the menu entry but didn't try it, so I encourage you to do so ;)
19:50:00	yelped	Actually I don't have a Clip+ with me now. I'll put it on my microSD card, and I'll copy it later. Thanks for everything.
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21:42:57	linuxstb	TheSeven: Thanks.
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