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#rockbox log for 2011-01-28

00:11:17 Quit quem (Excess Flood)
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01:01:16S_a_i_n_tkugel: (logs) The database works fine on Android now...but we need to "Start Database at <_dir_>" setting in the menu, similar to the File Browser's setting so that the database doesn't pick up ringtones etc. unwantedly from the rest of the phones filesystem.
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01:10:46pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: would the phone mind a database.ignore?
01:11:54pixelmahmm, or just a database.ignore in the SD card root and an unignore in the music folder(s)
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01:41:37 Join Hilikus [0] (~hilikus@unaffiliated/hilikus)
01:42:32S_a_i_n_tpixelma: The probelm is not the files on the SD card.
01:43:18S_a_i_n_tit's files in the phones internal storage, I don't think we should expect users to have root access to place the relevant .ignore/.unignore files.
01:43:21 Quit sideral (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:43:31Hilikushey guys
01:43:44Hilikusi found out by accident today that there's an android port in the works
01:43:49Hilikusawesome news
01:44:09Hilikusis there an estimated ETA for an official release?
01:44:35S_a_i_n_tThere's nothing to stop you from checking out the source and compiling it yourself though.
01:44:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:44:57S_a_i_n_tpixelma: I susp[ect it would be possible to do the same thing with the Database as was done with the File Browser with a "Start Database here" setting
01:45:16S_a_i_n_t*suspect too
01:45:36Hilikusi might try that, but i would prefer something stable. randomly checking out code usually doesn't work out very well
01:45:57S_a_i_n_twhat makes you think it's random?
01:46:22S_a_i_n_tyou *could* check out a revision at random...but I would suggest checking out the current source ;)
01:46:33Hilikusi mean random in time
01:46:36Hilikuslike, today
01:46:41Hilikuswhat's special about today
01:47:11Torneindeed, nothing is special, so it should be fine
01:47:21Torneour tree works perfectly fine virtually all of the time :)
01:47:28Hilikusoh ok
01:47:37Hilikusi'll give it a try
01:47:42Hilikushow big is the android sdk?
01:47:46Tornethe android port is not "done with"
01:48:03S_a_i_n_tit's plent usable though.
01:48:05Tornebut no version of it is going to be any different
01:48:28Hilikusbut will there be an official release as some point, as in, to the android market?
01:48:40S_a_i_n_tthat is the intention.
01:49:00S_a_i_n_tBut there's no estimation as to when there will be a stable release.
01:49:25Hilikusand the poject is just making it work in android or its being rewritten? i mean, should i expect the same features as before?
01:49:36Torneit's not *unstable*, it's unfinished
01:49:47Tornethe UI does not work particularly ideally for an android app
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01:49:53Tornesome features are missing
01:50:14S_a_i_n_tIn answer to your "How big is <blah>?" question, setting up the S/NDK and checking out the source will chalk up about ~450MB in traffic
01:50:32Tornewhat is implemented should be pretty stable.
01:50:46Hilikusthanks guys
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02:13:22S_a_i_n_tJdGordon1: If you get the time, and, if it's indeed possible....could you please have a look at adding "Quickscreen" to %?cs −−-> ("current screen is?")
02:14:29JdGordon1the whole current screen system needs doing properly
02:14:36JdGordon1its simple to just add it
02:16:47S_a_i_n_tI admit that more flexability with %cs would be nice...but other than "USB Screen" (which I'm hoping the USB screen will be themeable anyway, making it irrelevant for this case) the only other screen I would like on %cs is "Quickscreen".
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02:20:12kingtony911Hey got a random questions... and i was unable to find anywhere. Does rockbox support HD radio tagging on a 5G ipod?
02:21:05JdGordon1if HD tagging is RDS, and your radio attachment works with rokbcox, then yes
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02:22:04kingtony911ummm ok. I will have to give it a try! Thanks!
02:27:46DrewVosburgkingony911: you will also need to have an fms theme that has rds tag display enablement
02:29:07DrewVosburgso even if you do have it on your device, you gotta have a theme that shows it.
02:29:37kingtony911Cool thanks!~
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02:39:15JdGordon1the default fms shows rds on avilable targets
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03:30:05CIA-7New commit by jethead71 (r29149): AS3525v2 USB: Set disconnect before stopping module clock. Seems to cure reconnect weirdness for me and is probably the proper method anyway since ...
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03:34:04CIA-7r29149 build result: All green
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03:44:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:50:40BRi7Xdoes the audio chip inside the gigabeat S support input? i was reading the specification of the chip and it looks like it does, i'm not too sure though
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03:51:18jhMikeSit does of course
03:52:37BRi7Xhow possible would it be to input using the headphone jack? kind of like how if you plug in a pair of headphones to a microphone port, you can get a signal through them
03:53:55jhMikeSit's not wired for that at all, you'd need an external adc sending audio over i2s to the CPU
03:54:33BRi7Xso then the hardware would have to be changed?
03:55:17BRi7Xdamn that'd be a pretty sweet feature if it was wired for it
03:55:35jhMikeSno, you just need to make a device that sends the digital audio into the bottom connector
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03:56:24jhMikeSiiow it needs more hardware
03:56:47jhMikeSthere are block diagrams in the wiki
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03:58:20BRi7Xthere's one for the S60... same shit as the 30 or what?
03:59:46BRi7Xi see Line-In 3.5mm jack with dotted lines going to Audio ADC with ??? under it
04:02:11jhMikeSsome of that's the cradle that never was
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04:02:41BRi7Xso they put it onto the board, then changed their minds, then it was too late / too expensive to make a whole new set of boards or something like that?
04:03:14BRi7Xi dunno what makes me angrier, the fact that they didn't include the feature, or the fact that some of the parts for it are there but don't work
04:03:15jhMikeSthe stuff on the cradle side is not in the player
04:03:32BRi7Xso the cradle won't work if hooked up?
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04:04:33jhMikeStoffee82 said there was never one produced
04:06:34*jhMikeS needs to know how to fake that "boot switch" thing
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04:13:26BRi7Xwell hrmm, the Gigabeat S certainly fits into the Gigabeat F cradle
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04:16:33jhMikeSmine sure doesn't :)
04:17:19BRi7Xthe port's the same, i had to take the top casing off of the cradle for it to fit, but it does connect
04:17:24BRi7Xand charges too
04:18:14BRi7Xand the usb port on it charges my phone haha
04:18:22BRi7Xbut only when the gigabeat is connected
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04:23:25jhMikeSgood thing you tested that :) I know it fits the connector but I don't think I'd have just jammed it on there.
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04:27:16BRi7Xi guess my trait of technological dare is the reason i've broken so many gigabeats, but if it works, it works, i didn't really think i'd break it by connecting it to a port that fits though
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04:30:01jhMikeSdepends on what's on each pin, but it sounds at least somewhat compatible
04:30:17jhMikeSI wonder about the line out then
04:30:42BRi7Xi tested it and it didn't come through my headphones, but i thought that might be a software issue?
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04:31:55jhMikeSit's not dealt with at all atm, so yeah
04:32:00jhMikeScould be
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05:01:36CIA-7New commit by jethead71 (r29150): Big oops. Should be broadcasting SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED _after_ remouting disks.
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05:03:15BRi7Xlol @ "big oops."
05:04:52CIA-7r29150 build result: All green
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05:13:13jhMikeSthat's no exaggeration of how big an oops i made there :)
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05:20:51BRi7Xhahaha, i'm not exactly sure what it means... but it sounds like an oops based on the underlining of after
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05:29:18newnickHi can we use gameshark on rockboy?
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05:31:19Halo18can we use gameshark on rockboy?
05:32:14S_a_i_n_tnot that I understand, no.
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05:39:51[Saint]Hmmm...what happened there?
05:40:06[Saint]oops, wrong channel. sorry.
05:44:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:10:14[Saint]kugel: Did you see my comments re: Database?
08:10:48[Saint]It works perfectly, but there is a definite need for a "Start Database Here" setting similar to that of the File Browser
08:12:07[Saint]errrrr....s/Database/RaaA Database/
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08:18:40kugelyea I saw them
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08:55:10[Saint]kugel: So, is it possible to implement? My database is full of untagged "albums" that are really my ring/notification tonrd.
08:55:34kugelsure it's possible
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09:05:07[Saint]Ooops...I'm not quite sure what a "tonrd" is....*"sound", rather.
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09:05:42[Saint]And thanks for getting the database working/working again(?) kugel...I appreciate it.
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09:12:33sideralAccording to this page <>, "we" have the datasheet for AS3534. Can I have a look at it? I'd like to play with the audio settings a bit to find a cure for the ClipV2/Clip+ background noise problem
09:14:11*B4gder doesn't have that
09:15:43sideralRafaelCarre added that tidbit of info to this page
09:15:51B4gderthat's funman
09:16:00B4gderwho hasn't been around here for a while
09:16:30sideraltoo bad
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09:16:51sideralmaybe I'll shoot him an email later
09:17:44sideralI've already played with the settings a bit, to no avail
09:25:12*[Saint] discovers that Teru has already written the patch that he was investigating attempting to write himself.
09:25:45[Saint]It's so nice when other people have already done what you wanted to do for you, and better! :)
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12:26:52*[Saint] just found that he can reliably crash RaaA by scrolling quickly with the scrollbar in a long -ish (~400 tracks) playlist.
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12:39:21kugel[Saint]: that's a playlist bug
12:39:44kugelthere's some arbitary 200 track limit
12:39:51[Saint]kugel: It's interesting though that kinetic scrolling doesn't do it.
12:39:55kugelplaylist viewer bug*
12:40:43[Saint]and it's not *just* a playlist, it's any really long list.
12:41:09[Saint]a playlist was just a reliable test case for a long list.
12:41:53kugelno, it's only the playlist viewer
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12:44:15kugelif you had crashes in other lists it was probably a different reason
12:44:32kugelI can't make it crash in other lists with 1000+ items
12:45:10[Saint]Well, I don't claim to know the reason...I just found it rather odd you seemed to be telling me what I'm experiencing ;)
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12:45:52[Saint]I can crash it in database/track
12:46:33kugelI can'T
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12:48:04[Saint] normal use I doubt I would ever scroll as fast as I need to to crash it anyway. Just thought I should mention I found a way to reliably make it fall over.
12:48:29[Saint](for myself at least)
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12:49:26[Saint]Mainly I wanted to see if anyone else could confirm it. So it is known in the Playlist Viewer, but not (normally) in other lists?
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12:51:18pixelmasomething to do with "chunked" browsing?
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13:10:01PaulJamHi, are there any known problems with rockbox' USB mode (like file corruption) on ipod videos?
13:13:23[Saint]PaulJam: there have been some reports of filesystem corruption on a few DAPs in the past ~2 weeks or so.
13:13:27pixelma (I saw discussion about it here, seems to apply to all software USB targets, and there were also more reports about filesystem corruption here and in the forums)
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13:52:43*gevaerts waves to funman
13:52:53funmansideral asked me for the as3543 datasheet but i don't have it here with me
13:53:21sideralfunman: This wiki page <> says you have various AMS datasheets?
13:53:22funmanif he wants to work on clipv2 could someone who has it give a copy to him? (at condition of no redistribution)
13:54:07gevaertsDon't kugel and bertrik have it?
13:54:10funmansideral: yes, only the as3525 is publicly available on their website though
13:54:24sideraland a 400-pages folder full of dev info?
13:54:50B4gderfunman: I don't have the as3543 one
13:55:24funmani probably gave them to bertrik kugel and also saratoga
13:56:10sideralfunman: I'm not in a hurry, it would also be fine if you could send them to my later this week
13:57:00funmanah, found it in my mail archive; i'll give it to you
13:57:19sideralgreat, thanks!
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13:59:40sideralfunman: do you have any other data sheets that might be relevant?
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14:01:52funmanas3525 of course
14:02:25funmanmaybe as3514 too for comparison (i got that one from B4gder)
14:04:46sideralI do have the AS3525 one
14:05:44sideralAS3514 would be interesting
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14:08:37kugelI don't have the as3543 one
14:09:46funmangive me your mail if you want to fix that 'bug' :)
14:10:28kugeli don't need it
14:10:36kugelor does it match any of our targets?
14:11:06kugeloh really?
14:11:22sideralthe audio / powermgmt part only
14:11:22funmanH i g h E n d St e r e o A u d i o C o d e c w i t h S y s t e m P M U
14:11:29funmans/ //g
14:11:52kugelah right
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14:15:34preglowkugel: ever noticed playback stopping on android rockbox? halts completely until you seek around a bit
14:15:53preglowhappens fairly often, ranging from every 5-20 mins
14:16:13kugelI had that constantly with the htc firmware and its bug, but not anymore since I switched to another rom
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14:17:00preglowwell, froyo now, all the other kinks vanished, but not that
14:17:14preglowwhat bug would this be, btw? still talking about the background scheduler bug?
14:17:32kugelooops, I gave funman a wrong email :(
14:17:46kugelpreglow: yes
14:17:50preglowwell, that is gone
14:18:24preglowand no other apps doing sound playback has a similar problem
14:18:24kugelI haven't had a playback lockup since ages
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14:19:14preglowguess i'll have to stuff in some debugging then
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14:31:55sideralah, that AS3543 data sheet has several bits that weren't in the header files yet. looking forward to playing with them tonight. :)
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14:36:45pixelmaI had playback freezing on android after changing SD cards and the now current one didn't have a "rockbox" folder - happened when changing settings (such as volume) that would need to be written to config.cfg. I don't know what happens if e.g. the playlist control file would need to be updated
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14:41:57sideralI've posted an update to FS #11748 (autoresume) with a new proposal for simplifying the configuration. Anyone interested in commenting? (kugel, gevaerts, Llorean, pixelma?)
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14:42:57pixelmawow, I really read that "commenting" as "committing"...
14:43:17sideralI'd be happy with that as well ;)
14:43:29Rim13Hi. I have RockBox on ipod classic. I see error:"codec failure". This song is . MediaInfo File: .
14:44:00pixelmaI won't do that, it's already to "low level" for me, I only do very small fixes, graphics and manual stuff
14:44:28pixelmaRim13: do other flacs work?
14:44:30 Quit quem (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
14:44:53Rim13But this file RockBox can read .
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14:45:55pixelmado you know what type the tags are (vorbis comments or other)?
14:47:59Rim13I don't know.
14:51:06Rim13MPC - HC 64bit (x64) v1.4.2499 play both files
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14:58:56Rim13What it is necessary to make that flac would be read RockBox?
14:59:05pixelmaI can't see any obvious, maybe someone else has an idea
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15:03:07Rim13Thanks for the help
15:04:14Rim13I hope the answer will be
15:07:02gevaertssideral: I think your proposal will at least solve the "it's too complicated" problem
15:08:15sideralgevaerts: Thanks for the feedback. Yes, that was the goal.
15:08:50gevaertsAnd for the audiobook case (which I guess means "a set of consecutive tracks"), I'd say the current bookmark system works well, so if your mechanism doesn't address those, that's not really a problem
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15:10:42sideralI think my mechanism now actually can work with audiobooks as well: Just exclude audiobooks from the resume-on-automatic-trackchange config. The only thing missing is finding the right track to start with.
15:10:54sideralAnd for that, bookmarks are better suited.
15:11:03gevaertsyes, exactly
15:11:50gevaertsLet's see what the others say.
15:11:57pixelmaRim13: the first file (Back on my Feet) plays in a Rockbox simulator on my PC. I tried that because it also gives some info when it fails usually. Do other FLACs play currently on your Ipod?
15:12:08sideralgevaerts: I actually have an idea that would simplify this as well (w/o having to go through bookmarks):
15:12:32sideralthe DB browser could by default highlight the last-played track
15:12:37sideralbut that's future work
15:12:45gevaertsHow would that work?
15:13:31n1sRim13: only so called "subset" (iirc) flac files are guaranteed to work
15:13:51sideralgevaerts: as you enter a DB view (say an album consisting of audiobook chapters in separate mp3 files), the tagtree checks the last-played property in the DB and highlights the youngest one
15:13:52n1sblocksize <= 4608 for example
15:14:23pixelman1s: that file works in a current c200 sim
15:14:26gevaertssideral: remember that not all supported players have an RTC, so you can't reliably use timestamps :)
15:14:33gevaertsA counter would work though
15:14:46n1spixelma: ok, not a codec limitation then
15:15:00sideralgevaerts: oh ok
15:15:42gevaertsAlso, on some players that do have an RTC, a hard reset (which you unfortunately still have to do every now and then...) resets the clock
15:15:54sideralwe could also fake a logical clock for players that don't have an RTC
15:15:58gevaertsWhich means that on my gigabeat the clock tends to not be set :)
15:16:26sideralwhere we make the last clock value persistent in nvram before poweroff
15:16:47gevaertsI'd just use a counter. You don't need actual *time* for this, just play order
15:17:17sideralI probably mean the same by "logical clock"
15:18:24gevaertsWe do have some sort of code that sets file modification timestamps in an increasing order on non-RTC players. I'm not sure how it works though
15:19:00sideralthat's good feedback, thanks. I might tackle the DB highlighting thing next(ish) depending on demand
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15:19:27sideralit would be a good learning opportunity for the DB/tagtree
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15:20:03sideralBut I have some questions to Slasheri first :)
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15:20:59Rim13this file RockBox can read .
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15:22:19Rim13Please repeat again at I rumple irc it was updated
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15:25:09sideralgevaerts: Have you had a look at the comment above the config proposal? It's the summary you promised to read ;)
15:25:36gevaertssideral: I read it together with your new proposal
15:25:50gevaertsThat's why I brought up the audiobook thing
15:26:44siderala cool
15:27:15sideraldo you have comments regarding the base-mechanism discussion?
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15:28:20gevaertsWell, I don't really agree that the bookmarking system is a complex and fragile, but I do agree that it doesn't fit your goals
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15:31:09gevaertsI still think that a good solution would be to allow the database to update on demand (i.e. it would only add tracks to it when the autoresume thing needs them there, which ensures the database doesn't grow huge), but I don't see that as a blocker. It can easily be added later, without actually changing anything for how autoresume is implemented now
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15:36:43sideralfair enough. I actually do want to look at real-time DB extensions as a follow-on project
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15:38:07sideralI'll wait for some more feedback and then update my patch set accordingly, plus do the handbook changes
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15:40:54sideralthanks gevaerts
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16:24:33dfkt|xi'm trying to build rockbox for android (on ubuntu 10), followed the readme and used the .sh file for installation - now i get the error "arm-linux-androideabi-gcc: not found" - how can i fix this?
16:29:19dfkt|xi.e. i have no clue how to "make sure you have the ANDROID_SDK_PATH and ANDROID_NDK_PATH (pointing to
16:29:20dfkt|xthe each's root directory) environment variables set up"
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16:35:47CapsAdminStack underflow... viewportmanager
16:36:00CapsAdminI saw a patch for it, but I'm wondering how I can restart the ipod
16:37:27CapsAdminit's unresponsive
16:37:46n1spress and hold menu+select
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16:38:12CapsAdmini thought it was just a press thing
16:38:27CapsAdminI didn't know I had to hold those buttons for longer than 2 seconds
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17:00:40gevaertsdfkt|x: "export ANDROID_SDK_PATH=/path/to/wherever/the/sdk/is" and similar for the ndk?
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17:02:58dfkt|xgevaerts, i see folders for the sdk and ndk in my home directory, but this gives the same "not found" results
17:04:35gevaertsthat part works for me
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17:10:58[Saint]preglow: noticed you talking about RaaA lockups...I get them all the time.
17:11:42[Saint]Except seeking back/forth won't make it come out of lock...the UI is respomsive and I can navigate normally....just no sound.
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17:23:37amiconngevaerts, sideral: We do fake fat timestamps in rockbox, as vfat requires timestamps. But those are only strictly monotonic per file, not for the whole filesystem
17:24:01gevaertsah, right. So useless for any other purpose
17:26:21amiconnIt uses 3 rules: (1) For new files, start at build_date, 00:11:11. (2) When modifying a file and its old timestamp is before build_date, advance to build_date, 00:11:11. (3) Advance time by 00:11:11, when minutes wrap increment hour( /day/ month/year) and set min:sec back to 11:11
17:28:25amiconnThe reasoning for 11 min 11 sec is to make those faked times easily recognisable. Thell always be xx:11:10, xx:22:22, xx:33:32, xx:44:44 or xx:55:54 when listed (deviation in the last digit due to fat's two-second modfication time precision)
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18:54:27*kugel is mighty confused by FS #11903
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19:24:36dfkt|xwhen i try to build rockbox for android, should there actually be a file called "arm-linux-androideabi-gcc" somewhere on the hdd? i still get the "not found" message, even if it's in my path, and the sdk and ndk have been installed properly
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19:29:09dfkt|xbesides that i also get "arm-linux-androideabi-ld: not found"
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19:37:19gevaertsdfkt|x: yes, you need arm-linux-androideabi-gcc somewhere
19:39:26dfkt|xgevaerts, meaning, it should definitely show up somewhere when i search for it in eg. nautilus?
19:39:52gevaertsIn $ANDROID_NDK_PATH/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.4.3/prebuilt/linux-x66/bin
19:41:16dfkt|xhmm, there is no /toolchains in my /home/dfkt/android-ndk-r5 directory
19:41:39dfkt|xonly /source and /tests
19:41:50gevaertsThat doesn't look right then
19:41:50markcraseHow difficult is it to patch my Clip+ with the usb fix?(I haven't seen a guide)
19:41:57gevaertsWas it unpacked correctly?
19:42:27dfkt|xi ran from rockbox trunk /android
19:42:40dfkt|xthen i set up the sdk - there was no info on setting up the ndk
19:42:56dfkt|xdoes the ndk need to be set up as well?
19:43:22gevaertsmarkcrase: have a look at and the pages it refers to
19:43:24dfkt|xwith setting up the sdk i mean i installed pretty much everything from 1.5 to 3.0
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19:44:38gevaertsdfkt|x: do you still have the downloaded android-ndk-r5-linux-x86.tar.bz2?
19:44:39dfkt|xalso, i don't seem to be the owner of the ndk directory, it's got a big lock on it
19:44:46gevaertsProbably in /tmp/
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19:45:16gevaertsIf you do, can you check how big that file is?
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19:45:32dfkt|xgevaerts, not in tmp, but i downloaded the tar ball manually as well
19:45:48gevaertsI just downloaded it, and it does have toolchains
19:46:18gevaerts44362746 bytes, md5sum 49d5c35ec02bafc074842542c58b7eb3
19:46:20dfkt|xindeed, just looked inside it, all is there
19:46:24markcraseThanks gevaerts!
19:46:45dfkt|xthis one i didn't use however - i just used the rockbox .sh. twice, actually
19:47:26dfkt|xi guess just extracting that over the borked install won't work?
19:47:36gevaertsit should
19:47:43dfkt|xnice, i'll try
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19:52:18dfkt|xgevaerts, appears to be working now, running make :)
19:52:40gevaertsdfkt|x: that script should probably check md5sums :)
19:53:01gevaertsAs should, really
19:58:53*Bagder agrees
19:59:25saratogarockboxdev can't setup the android tools?
19:59:35 Quit solexx (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20:00:01dionoeauntarring 2 files isn't too complicated :) (and I don't have a clue about rockboxdev)
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20:01:36BushmillsI prefer rsync with -c option (checksum tests for updates, copies only those)
20:02:40gevaertsBushmills: that assumes rsync on the other end
20:03:05Bushmillsnot if rockbox device is mounted as usb storage
20:03:27gevaertsRockbox devices are not involved here
20:03:29Tornersync -c on local storage doesn't save any time
20:03:32dfkt|xgevaerts, thank you very much. *now* it's working. i also had to chmod the ndk directory to a rude 777, since it was somehow locked
20:03:53Bushmillshm, just checking... i'm not on the wrong channel, am I?
20:04:13gevaertsBushmills: we're discussing downloading toolchains
20:04:14dfkt|xwonder why it had such weird permissions
20:04:29Bushmillsgrin. foot in mouth situation
20:04:43sideralwe don't have a general memory / device register hex editor tool or plugin, have we?
20:05:10gevaertsdfkt|x: my guess is because the tar file was cut off before it got to the permissions bit
20:06:05Tornesideral: no. that kind of thing tends to lead to horrible accidents. ;)
20:06:28Tornesideral: e.g. if you turn off the bits on the ipod PMU that make it turn on when you press buttons or connect power. ;)
20:07:19sideralTorne: you wouldn't have to expose it to users :)
20:07:25gevaertsBattery disconnect time :)
20:07:39*gevaerts once had those registers connected to USB serial for easy testing
20:08:41 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20:09:40*sideral wonders how you guys survived this long without a decent kernel debugger or gdb stub
20:10:04gevaertssideral: you know how long linux did without those?
20:10:21sideralyes, I do
20:10:39sideralat least they have nicely decorated Oopses
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20:10:54sideralas a cheap replacement for a kernel core dump
20:11:29gevaertsWe have nice panic messages :)
20:11:36gevaertsComplete with an address you can find!
20:12:16sideralbut when I had much to do with Linux, I did have the fortune of having a microkernel-ish kernel debugger plugged under it
20:12:37sideralthat was quite useful...
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20:14:44Tornesideral: having spent a long time doing development with full JTAG debugging I really don't think it's generally that useful
20:14:54Tornedebugging stuff with printf and so on works a lot better most of the time
20:15:16Torneusing "proper" tools is a big time investment and only worth it for things which are genuinely very hard to resolve
20:15:56sideralit can be very convenient, though
20:17:14sideralAlso, JTAG typically is at the wrong level of abstraction: too low, doesn't know about kernel data structures
20:18:01Torneer, sure it does
20:18:12TorneJTAG is just a way to get access to memory/registers
20:18:18Tornesame as a gdb stub
20:18:25Tornethe debugging tool on top of that is free to do whatever it likes
20:18:29Tornethe backend is uninteresting
20:19:07sideralOK, maybe the debugging tools I saw on top of JTAG were sub-par. I never saw a gdb connected via JTAG
20:19:24Tornegdb comes under "sub-par", no? ;)
20:19:45sideralbut anyway, a kernel-specific in-kernel debugger that can traverse the kernel's structures is much more convenient than gdb
20:20:06Torne..why do you need something kernel specific for that?
20:20:11Torneit's an ELF binary, at some point
20:20:14Tornedebuggers know how to do that
20:20:55sideralgeneral-purpose debuggers don't know how to show all kernel threads blocked on something with a single-key command ;)
20:21:01Torneyes they do
20:21:06Torneyour debugger sucks
20:21:51Tornelearn to script ;)
20:22:02sideralwe're likely not talking about the same thing :)
20:22:17gevaertsTorne: why? You said it's not worth it :)
20:22:24siderallet's just agree that gdb sucks ;)
20:23:10Tornesideral: a general-purpose debugger is one where I can write arbitrary scripts to interpret the contents of memory/registers any way I feel like
20:23:24Torneusing the full debug info from the original binaries
20:24:05sideralI chose to "script" that stuff in C, within the kernel, back in the day
20:24:06Torneif it takes more than a one line script to turn a linkedlist/whatever based on a known struct from the dwarf data into a nice table you can sort by any column then your debugger is lame ;)
20:24:24Tornewhat's the point in that being in the kernel when you can do it in one line in the debugger anyway? :)
20:25:00sideralbecause it's not a one-liner to interactively traverse page tables, for example
20:25:04Torneyes it is
20:25:10Torneless than one line, in fact :)
20:25:10sideralno it is not
20:25:27Tornein trace32 it's "mmu.list"
20:25:47sideralok, you win
20:26:04sideralbecause I wanted to do some audio debugging tonight ;)
20:26:05Torneor provide an address if you want a different page directory than the one currently in use
20:27:19sideralbtw Torne, I had a go at Frotz with the game you recommended, Curses
20:27:57sideralI didn't get very far with the Clip keyboard ;)
20:28:07Torneyeah, i said :)
20:28:10Torneit's not exactly comfortable.
20:28:35sideralBut it was cool to play with it anyway, and enough to do some basic exploration
20:30:08*Torne nods.
20:30:24sideralok, now let me open that AS3543 datasheet...
20:30:26TorneMy goal when I get around to it is to add a way to load keymaps that map player buttons to z-machine keys
20:30:39Torneand then try and encourage people to play z-machine games which use key input instead of line input
20:30:46Tornee.g. CYOA-style ones
20:32:03sideralthat would be cool
20:33:45Tornethere are quite a few, though not anywhere near as many as use line input of course
20:34:57sideralI wonder whether an input mode with a fixed vocabulary to choose from, as in early Lucasfilm adventures, would be helpful
20:35:12 Quit simonrvn (Quit: ZNC -
20:35:24TorneYeah, there are other options I can steal from other frotz ports
20:35:38TorneOne reasonable combination is having a textfile of commands that are available fro ma menu, common stuff
20:35:51Torneand maybe a mode where you ccan enter directions with arrows
20:36:00Torneand maybe a mode where you can select words from the screen to retype.
20:36:30sideralI'd try it if you did it ;)
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20:36:39Torneso you can go, say, click-scroll-"examine" (from menu), clicksomethingelse-scrollback-"ladder" (from previous output)
20:36:48TorneWell, they've been done before, GBAfrotz uses lots of tricks like that
20:36:54Tornebecause typing on the GBA is hilarious
20:37:12Tornei just haven't implemented them yet.
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21:26:17saratogasideral: FS #8054 - set_gpio plugin
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21:52:05sideralsaratoga: Nice start −− thanks!
21:52:26saratogai've been meaning to dust that off for years and make it another test_* plugin
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21:54:44sideralsaratoga: I'm compiling a list of things to try to tackle the annoying background noise on the ClipV2. Do you perhaps already have such a list?
21:55:39saratogai would probably try and dump every audio/pmu related register and go through them for ones that look weird
21:55:54pixelmais this some hiss you can hear during disk access, or something else?
21:55:56saratogamaybe compare between the clipv2 and clip+ and look for differences
21:56:01saratogaits probably something in there thats not initialized correctly
21:56:13saratogaonly reason i could think that you hear it during playback but not during radio
21:56:32sideralpeople have reported the problem for the clip+ as well
21:57:25sideralalso, audio-wise there seems to be no difference in initialization between clipv2 and clip+
21:58:06sideralare you sure it's not there when using the FM radio?
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22:00:11saratogaIIRC its not
22:00:22saratogatheres some noise on the clip+ recently, but i don't think its the same
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22:01:52sideralI have no rockboxed clip+ to compare to right now. I'd have to rockbox my girl friend's clip+, and she'd hate it if something went wrong :)
22:04:37sideralsaratoga: I can hear the clipv2 "think" in fm mode when muted. it just thinks less because there's nothing to DMA / decode, but if I use the UI I can hear the hissing sound I think
22:04:49kugelsideral: I think I like your proposal for auto resume. Just one question, how do you distinguish genres and paths in that setting?
22:04:51saratogaweird, i tested and coulnd't hear anything
22:05:21sideralsaratoga: when I hold volume-down there is clicking
22:06:21sideralkugel: great, thanks for taking a look! In my last proposal, I would have just one comma-separated list of search strings that would be applied to both the genre tag and the file path
22:06:51kugelso how would the podcast dir/filename look like so it's matched by the setting?
22:07:58sideralsay you leave the custom search string at "podcast". it would match all files that have "podcast" (case insensitive) in their file name, such as /PODCASTS/Foo/bar.mp3
22:08:21sideralor /bar/baz/foo-podcast.mp3
22:08:49kugelwhat about /sdcard/podcasts/foo.mp3?
22:09:36sideralworks as well
22:09:45kugeljust a minor: I think a semi colon would work better as separater
22:10:17sideralhmm ok, why?
22:11:03sideralI don't think anyone would ever search for a path name with a comma in it?
22:11:07kugelless likely to be part of a filename and more commonly used I'd say
22:11:36*Bagder spots a mail...
22:12:15sideralI've thought a bit about this before and found "comma-separated" to be most self-describing to the user and the shortest variant as well
22:12:54gevaertskugel: "part of a filename" is irrelevant as long as it's not part of a pattern
22:12:59sideralthe only downside I see is that you can't search for the comma itself. but OTOH, I don't really care that much which it is
22:13:42gevaertsOne thing I'm not sure about is if the search strings should match an entire path component or not
22:14:48sideralgevaerts: I don't think so. I like that the default "podcast" matches the OF's standard dir for podcasts on my player, which happens to be called "PODCASTS" (mind the "s" at the end)
22:15:07kugelI couldn't put a podcast folder into the root on RaaA
22:15:28gevaertssideral: it does increase the chance of false positives a bit
22:16:05dionoeakugel: I've uploaded the new android widget patch
22:16:07sideralgevaerts: right. but users can protect against it by searching for "/podcast/" instead
22:16:11dionoea(as well as some screenshots)
22:16:14gevaertsah, right
22:16:34gevaertsWell, only if they don't use genre tag matching
22:16:50gevaertshm, maybe I do prefer separate genre and filename matching lists
22:17:01kugeldionoea: how hard is adding other sizes?
22:17:03gevaertsWell, it's not a major issue either way
22:17:29sideralgevaerts: :) I think this is making a good tradeoff
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22:18:37dionoeakugel: fairly easy
22:18:43*sideral got mail...
22:18:47enthdegreezoop da doop, my clip + arrived, time to look for ti84 emulators I can port
22:18:48kugeland album art? ;)
22:18:56dionoeakugel: just add stuff to the manifest, create a layout and a dummy class
22:19:30sideralThanks guys, it's an honor
22:19:33dionoeakugel: that might be a bit harder. Depends if we can just get the resource's path on the sdcard or if we must send binary from rockbox.
22:20:00dionoeabut it's definitely doable
22:20:08kugelthe path should be relatively easy
22:20:21dionoeaI just don't have any album art on any of my music so I'll let someone else work it out
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22:20:51kugelyou sent plain multimedia keys right? so the keys should be working with other apps
22:21:45kugelI wonder if there's some kind of standard/de facto API for music widgets
22:22:08dionoeathat would be nice yeah.
22:23:34dionoeaand I don't think that I send multimedia key intents ... don't remember why though.
22:24:21dionoeaI should fix that
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22:25:21dionoeaprobably didn't want other applications to receive them (but that's not a good excuse, I could have targeted the intent to the rockbox media button receiver)
22:25:49kugeldoes it even need intents?
22:26:02dionoeayes, the widget is a different process
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22:26:27dionoeaI'm not sure if it's one process per widget or for all of a widget provider's widgets
22:26:44dionoeaprobably one per widget provider
22:27:56kugel shows how to broadcast them, but I don't know if apps/widget can do it as well
22:29:23enthdegreeIf I wrote a TI ROM emulator plugin would it be committed?
22:31:03dionoeakugel: everyone can broadcast any intent if I understand those correctly
22:31:56dionoeait might be a bit weird if we broadcast standard intents but can't be updated by other media applications
22:32:38dionoea(especially if intents like play launch the corresponding service)
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22:35:01kugeldionoea: unfortunately we can't do that yet :(
22:35:29dionoeais it technically impossible?
22:35:38dionoeaor just due to the current rockbox app code infrastructure ?
22:36:00kugelI'd say it's mostly that nobody has looked into it
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22:36:10dionoeaok, so it's possible :D
22:36:23kugelmost probably
22:37:09dionoeaalso, I don't know if other people noticed it, but it seems that the pcm driver sometimes gets stuck and needs a pause/play to start again
22:37:18enthdegree /join #rockbox-dev
22:37:33krazykityou're in the dev channel
22:37:54dionoeaenthdegree: if the plugin is good enough it probably would
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22:38:00dionoea(but then that's not up to me :p)
22:38:02enthdegreeKool. How much ram is available for the Clip + to use?
22:38:05kugeldionoea: some people have reported that but it works just fine for me
22:38:37dionoeakugel: it might depend on the hardware / android version. I had it on a Nexus One with stock roms 2.2.1 and 2.2.2
22:38:55dionoeaI'll probably try to write a native driver when they decide to send the 2.3 OTA update
22:39:46enthdegreewell, I ask that because I notice that good plugins like the improved wikipedia/dictionary reader are left as patches while trash like rockblox1d, jackpot, robotfindskitten, and 3 versions of snake are left intact
22:39:47kugelyou could install CM7 (nightly builds)
22:40:05*Bagder adds committer #95 and welcomes sideral onboard
22:40:13dionoeaI don't want to risk anything :) The default build is just fine for my needs
22:40:16kugelsideral: \o/
22:40:27Bagdersideral: please start with adding yourself to docs/COMMITTERS
22:40:31sideraljippie! Thanks guys
22:40:34gevaertsenthdegree: there are serious reasons to not commit the wikipedia plugin
22:40:49enthdegreeOh, I was not aware of them.
22:40:51sideralBadger: will do
22:40:59krazykitenthdegree, whoa whoa, robotfindskitten is the best plugin for rockbox. you must not "get it"
22:41:05gevaertsThey happen to be documented on the tracker
22:41:35enthdegreeaah, I did not mean robotfindskitten, I play that all the time!!
22:43:58saratogaenthdegree: 8MB DRAM, 1MB IRAM
22:44:20enthdegreesaratoga: Thank you! Where did you get that info?
22:44:47saratogaerr i guess funman told me when he reverse engineered it
22:45:20pixelmasideral: welcome, but please stay a bit calm (as you currently do) about the controversial features :)
22:45:57saratogano instead commit a malloc feature for rockbox
22:46:35sideralI thought I'd first commit my custom keymap
22:49:04sideralwhy, for the archos ondio fm of course ;)
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22:49:51pixelmasideral: because keymap changes can also lead to discussions from users, ask Llorean ;)
22:50:15pixelmanot to discuss but about his experiences with keymap changes
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22:52:08sideralpixelma: I do in fact think that my keymap (for the ClipV2) is superior, but I was just joking. I'll keep my keymap for myself for the time being ;)
22:52:29 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:53:49pixelmaI'm not opposed to these kind of changes if they improve things, but don't underestimate people getting used to something
22:54:05 Quit Topy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:54:13kugelsuperior sounds good :)
22:54:30pixelmaand I won't comment on the Clip's keymaps because I don't have such a device myself
22:55:52sideralIt's very tempting, but I'll keep shut in this topic for today ;)
22:56:20sideralI'm trying to figure out how svn authentication works with git-svn...
22:57:49pixelmabefore I committed some changes to the c200 keymap, I still put up patches to the tracker for people to try and comment
22:59:04sideralpixelma: That would be my plan as well. There's already a lengthy FS item on Clip keymaps, but I still prefer my own over the ones posted there
22:59:44kugelsideral: just make the first commit with svn, git-svn will pickup the authentification information
23:03:18dionoeahow do you push stuff upstream with git-svn? does it just require a call to git push? (I've never used it but will probably switch my rockbox checkout to git-svn soon)
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23:07:19*dionoea reads the man page
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23:10:11CIA-7New commit by sideral (r29151): Added myself to COMMITTERS
23:10:32thomasjfoxkugel: funny android dpad patch. you have to apply all the intermediate versions :o)
23:10:58kugelthomasjfox: hey o/
23:11:38kugelI've lost all track about this task, so many patches and comments
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23:12:47thomasjfoxkugel: I've seen your dlopen fix. Good work. Didn't try it yet as my PC is into pieces right now (new mobo).
23:12:48sideraldionoea: That's done with "git svn dcommit"
23:13:33dionoeaand just git svn clone svn:// to init the repo ? (seems to be copying stuff from the website part of the repo too)
23:13:49CIA-7r29151 build result: All green
23:13:51thomasjfoxkugel: I got all confused by just reading the FS entry...
23:14:02kugeldionoea: cloning from svn is time consuming
23:14:04AlexPsideral: Doesn't it prompt you? It is a while since I set mine up, so I can't remember what I did :)
23:14:16dionoeakugel: is there an alternative ?
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23:14:35kugelif you only care about trunk, then we already have a git mirror for it; it doesn't include tags and branches (and www, etc) though
23:14:53sideraldionoea: you can clone the existing git clone at git://
23:15:02dionoeaoh, nice. And can I use it to push stuff upstream afterwards?
23:15:15dionoeaah nice, thanks.
23:15:16AlexPtags and branches are quite useful now that we do point releases
23:15:20 Quit enthdegr1e (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
23:15:31sideralno, for that you need to set up the svn stuff.
23:15:41AlexPOr now that we have done one :)
23:15:48dionoeabut i can set it up on top of the git clone right ?
23:15:51sideralbut that should be faster once you've cloned the existing git repo
23:15:57dionoeaok, great. thanks
23:16:21kugelthe page I linked has all steps from clong to being able to push upstream
23:16:22sideralsee the wiki page kugel cited
23:16:30kugelthomasjfox: that's unfortunate
23:16:53AlexPSpeaking of keymaps, I'd quite like to be able to get to the menu from the WPS on android without having to go all the way back through the file tree
23:17:12kugelpress menu
23:17:20AlexPthat brings up the context menu
23:17:48kugelnot anymore
23:18:02AlexPah, I must be out of date
23:18:32thomasjfoxkugel: how do you access the context menu now?
23:18:52thomasjfoxthe maemo cabbie version has the same "issue"
23:19:08kugelthe C icon
23:19:17kugelon the pop up
23:19:21AlexPkugel: actually, sorry - menu from wps does take me to the menu, but menu in the filetree is context menu (as well as long press being context menu) - is this fixed too?
23:19:31kugelnot yet
23:20:00kugelbut it should
23:20:08AlexPyeah :)
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23:29:39dfkti'm starting to remake on of my WPS themes for a 240x400 archos android - is there any website upload mechanism for such a case yet?
23:33:42pixelmathis resolution is the same as the Ondas, guess you can reuse that
23:34:58dfkttrue, i tried the onda themes on the player - they worked halfway, will use that for now - thanks pixelma
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23:43:28kugeldfkt: as cabbie is the default theme the tracker would be appropriate; otherwise the theme site
23:43:42AlexPkugel: What is the large amount of data space that Rockbox starts using once you run it once?
23:43:56AlexPIt goes from a 3 MB ish install to 11 or 12
23:44:14kugelI guess 11 or 12 :)
23:44:27*kugel misread
23:44:32AlexPI mean why does it, and is there anyway to stick it on SD
23:44:40AlexP*any way
23:44:43kugelit's unzipping codecs and themes et all
23:45:08kugelmoving to sd is possible but it doesn't help much
23:45:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:45:24AlexPYeah, at the moment - I meant can those bits not be offloaded?
23:45:31AlexPJust as it is a rather large install
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23:50:20kugelI think it's possible but I haven't looked into it
23:50:29AlexPOK, no worries :)
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23:51:43AlexPkugel: Also, (sorry for badgering you :)), is the patch to make the items better spaced out on flyspray as I can't find it
23:52:17AlexPDo you have a link to it to hand?
23:52:31AlexPWith my fat fingers I find it not very useable without
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