#rockbox 2011-01-28

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#rockbox log for 2011-01-28

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01:01:16	S_a_i_n_t	kugel: (logs) The database works fine on Android now...but we need to "Start Database at <_dir_>" setting in the menu, similar to the File Browser's setting so that the database doesn't pick up ringtones etc. unwantedly from the rest of the phones filesystem.
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01:10:46	pixelma	S_a_i_n_t: would the phone mind a database.ignore?
01:11:54	pixelma	hmm, or just a database.ignore in the SD card root and an unignore in the music folder(s)
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01:42:32	S_a_i_n_t	pixelma: The probelm is not the files on the SD card.
01:43:18	S_a_i_n_t	it's files in the phones internal storage, I don't think we should expect users to have root access to place the relevant .ignore/.unignore files.
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01:43:31	Hilikus	hey guys
01:43:44	Hilikus	i found out by accident today that there's an android port in the works
01:43:49	Hilikus	awesome news
01:44:09	Hilikus	is there an estimated ETA for an official release?
01:44:18	S_a_i_n_t	No
01:44:35	S_a_i_n_t	There's nothing to stop you from checking out the source and compiling it yourself though.
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01:44:57	S_a_i_n_t	pixelma: I susp[ect it would be possible to do the same thing with the Database as was done with the File Browser with a "Start Database here" setting
01:45:16	S_a_i_n_t	*suspect too
01:45:36	Hilikus	i might try that, but i would prefer something stable. randomly checking out code usually doesn't work out very well
01:45:57	S_a_i_n_t	what makes you think it's random?
01:46:22	S_a_i_n_t	you could check out a revision at random...but I would suggest checking out the current source ;)
01:46:33	Hilikus	i mean random in time
01:46:36	Hilikus	like, today
01:46:41	Hilikus	what's special about today
01:46:45	Hilikus	nothing
01:47:11	Torne	indeed, nothing is special, so it should be fine
01:47:21	Torne	our tree works perfectly fine virtually all of the time :)
01:47:28	Hilikus	oh ok
01:47:33	Hilikus	great
01:47:37	Hilikus	i'll give it a try
01:47:42	Hilikus	how big is the android sdk?
01:47:46	Torne	the android port is not "done with"
01:48:03	S_a_i_n_t	it's plent usable though.
01:48:05	Torne	but no version of it is going to be any different
01:48:07	S_a_i_n_t	*plenty
01:48:28	Hilikus	but will there be an official release as some point, as in, to the android market?
01:48:40	S_a_i_n_t	that is the intention.
01:49:00	S_a_i_n_t	But there's no estimation as to when there will be a stable release.
01:49:25	Hilikus	and the poject is just making it work in android or its being rewritten? i mean, should i expect the same features as before?
01:49:36	Torne	it's not unstable, it's unfinished
01:49:47	Torne	the UI does not work particularly ideally for an android app
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01:49:53	Torne	some features are missing
01:49:58	Torne	etc.
01:50:14	S_a_i_n_t	In answer to your "How big is <blah>?" question, setting up the S/NDK and checking out the source will chalk up about ~450MB in traffic
01:50:32	Torne	what is implemented should be pretty stable.
01:50:44	Hilikus	awesome
01:50:46	Hilikus	thanks guys
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02:13:22	S_a_i_n_t	JdGordon1: If you get the time, and, if it's indeed possible....could you please have a look at adding "Quickscreen" to %?cs −−-> ("current screen is?")
02:14:17	JdGordon1	eventually...
02:14:29	JdGordon1	the whole current screen system needs doing properly
02:14:36	JdGordon1	its simple to just add it
02:16:47	S_a_i_n_t	I admit that more flexability with %cs would be nice...but other than "USB Screen" (which I'm hoping the USB screen will be themeable anyway, making it irrelevant for this case) the only other screen I would like on %cs is "Quickscreen".
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02:20:12	kingtony911	Hey got a random questions... and i was unable to find anywhere. Does rockbox support HD radio tagging on a 5G ipod?
02:21:05	JdGordon1	if HD tagging is RDS, and your radio attachment works with rokbcox, then yes
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02:22:04	kingtony911	ummm ok. I will have to give it a try! Thanks!
02:27:46	DrewVosburg	kingony911: you will also need to have an fms theme that has rds tag display enablement
02:29:07	DrewVosburg	so even if you do have it on your device, you gotta have a theme that shows it.
02:29:37	kingtony911	Cool thanks!~
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02:39:15	JdGordon1	the default fms shows rds on avilable targets
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03:30:05	CIA-7	New commit by jethead71 (r29149): AS3525v2 USB: Set disconnect before stopping module clock. Seems to cure reconnect weirdness for me and is probably the proper method anyway since ...
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03:34:04	CIA-7	r29149 build result: All green
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03:50:40	BRi7X	does the audio chip inside the gigabeat S support input? i was reading the specification of the chip and it looks like it does, i'm not too sure though
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03:51:18	jhMikeS	it does of course
03:52:37	BRi7X	how possible would it be to input using the headphone jack? kind of like how if you plug in a pair of headphones to a microphone port, you can get a signal through them
03:53:55	jhMikeS	it's not wired for that at all, you'd need an external adc sending audio over i2s to the CPU
03:54:33	BRi7X	so then the hardware would have to be changed?
03:55:17	BRi7X	damn that'd be a pretty sweet feature if it was wired for it
03:55:35	jhMikeS	no, you just need to make a device that sends the digital audio into the bottom connector
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03:56:24	jhMikeS	iiow it needs more hardware
03:56:47	jhMikeS	there are block diagrams in the wiki
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03:58:20	BRi7X	there's one for the S60... same shit as the 30 or what?
03:58:47	jhMikeS	yes
03:59:46	BRi7X	i see Line-In 3.5mm jack with dotted lines going to Audio ADC with ??? under it
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04:02:11	jhMikeS	some of that's the cradle that never was
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04:02:41	BRi7X	so they put it onto the board, then changed their minds, then it was too late / too expensive to make a whole new set of boards or something like that?
04:03:14	BRi7X	i dunno what makes me angrier, the fact that they didn't include the feature, or the fact that some of the parts for it are there but don't work
04:03:15	jhMikeS	the stuff on the cradle side is not in the player
04:03:19	BRi7X	hrmm
04:03:32	BRi7X	so the cradle won't work if hooked up?
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04:04:33	jhMikeS	toffee82 said there was never one produced
04:06:34	*	jhMikeS needs to know how to fake that "boot switch" thing
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04:13:26	BRi7X	well hrmm, the Gigabeat S certainly fits into the Gigabeat F cradle
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04:16:33	jhMikeS	mine sure doesn't :)
04:17:19	BRi7X	the port's the same, i had to take the top casing off of the cradle for it to fit, but it does connect
04:17:24	BRi7X	and charges too
04:18:14	BRi7X	and the usb port on it charges my phone haha
04:18:22	BRi7X	but only when the gigabeat is connected
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04:23:25	jhMikeS	good thing you tested that :) I know it fits the connector but I don't think I'd have just jammed it on there.
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04:27:16	BRi7X	i guess my trait of technological dare is the reason i've broken so many gigabeats, but if it works, it works, i didn't really think i'd break it by connecting it to a port that fits though
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04:30:01	jhMikeS	depends on what's on each pin, but it sounds at least somewhat compatible
04:30:17	jhMikeS	I wonder about the line out then
04:30:42	BRi7X	i tested it and it didn't come through my headphones, but i thought that might be a software issue?
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04:31:55	jhMikeS	it's not dealt with at all atm, so yeah
04:32:00	jhMikeS	could be
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05:01:36	CIA-7	New commit by jethead71 (r29150): Big oops. Should be broadcasting SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED _after_ remouting disks.
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05:03:15	BRi7X	lol @ "big oops."
05:04:52	CIA-7	r29150 build result: All green
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05:13:13	jhMikeS	that's no exaggeration of how big an oops i made there :)
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05:20:51	BRi7X	hahaha, i'm not exactly sure what it means... but it sounds like an oops based on the underlining of after
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05:29:18	newnick	Hi can we use gameshark on rockboy?
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05:31:19	Halo18	can we use gameshark on rockboy?
05:32:14	S_a_i_n_t	not that I understand, no.
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05:39:51	[Saint]	Hmmm...what happened there?
05:40:06	[Saint]	oops, wrong channel. sorry.
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08:10:14	[Saint]	kugel: Did you see my comments re: Database?
08:10:48	[Saint]	It works perfectly, but there is a definite need for a "Start Database Here" setting similar to that of the File Browser
08:12:07	[Saint]	errrrr....s/Database/RaaA Database/
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08:18:40	kugel	yea I saw them
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08:55:10	[Saint]	kugel: So, is it possible to implement? My database is full of untagged "albums" that are really my ring/notification tonrd.
08:55:34	kugel	sure it's possible
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09:05:07	[Saint]	Ooops...I'm not quite sure what a "tonrd" is....*"sound", rather.
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09:05:42	[Saint]	And thanks for getting the database working/working again(?) kugel...I appreciate it.
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09:12:33	sideral	According to this page <http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AustriaMicrosystems>, "we" have the datasheet for AS3534. Can I have a look at it? I'd like to play with the audio settings a bit to find a cure for the ClipV2/Clip+ background noise problem
09:14:11	*	B4gder doesn't have that
09:15:43	sideral	RafaelCarre added that tidbit of info to this page
09:15:51	B4gder	that's funman
09:16:00	B4gder	who hasn't been around here for a while
09:16:30	sideral	too bad
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09:16:51	sideral	maybe I'll shoot him an email later
09:17:44	sideral	I've already played with the settings a bit, to no avail
09:24:34	[Saint]	Aha...!
09:25:12	*	[Saint] discovers that Teru has already written the patch that he was investigating attempting to write himself.
09:25:45	[Saint]	It's so nice when other people have already done what you wanted to do for you, and better! :)
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12:26:52	*	[Saint] just found that he can reliably crash RaaA by scrolling quickly with the scrollbar in a long -ish (~400 tracks) playlist.
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12:39:21	kugel	[Saint]: that's a playlist bug
12:39:44	kugel	there's some arbitary 200 track limit
12:39:51	[Saint]	kugel: It's interesting though that kinetic scrolling doesn't do it.
12:39:55	kugel	playlist viewer bug*
12:40:43	[Saint]	and it's not just a playlist, it's any really long list.
12:41:09	[Saint]	a playlist was just a reliable test case for a long list.
12:41:53	kugel	no, it's only the playlist viewer
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12:43:29	[Saint]	....ok.
12:44:15	kugel	if you had crashes in other lists it was probably a different reason
12:44:32	kugel	I can't make it crash in other lists with 1000+ items
12:45:10	[Saint]	Well, I don't claim to know the reason...I just found it rather odd you seemed to be telling me what I'm experiencing ;)
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12:45:52	[Saint]	I can crash it in database/track
12:46:33	kugel	I can'T
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12:48:04	[Saint]	Hmmm...in normal use I doubt I would ever scroll as fast as I need to to crash it anyway. Just thought I should mention I found a way to reliably make it fall over.
12:48:29	[Saint]	(for myself at least)
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12:49:26	[Saint]	Mainly I wanted to see if anyone else could confirm it. So it is known in the Playlist Viewer, but not (normally) in other lists?
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12:49:36	kugel	yes
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12:51:18	pixelma	something to do with "chunked" browsing?
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13:10:01	PaulJam	Hi, are there any known problems with rockbox' USB mode (like file corruption) on ipod videos?
13:13:23	[Saint]	PaulJam: there have been some reports of filesystem corruption on a few DAPs in the past ~2 weeks or so.
13:13:27	pixelma	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11877 (I saw discussion about it here, seems to apply to all software USB targets, and there were also more reports about filesystem corruption here and in the forums)
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13:52:06	funman	hi
13:52:43	*	gevaerts waves to funman
13:52:53	funman	sideral asked me for the as3543 datasheet but i don't have it here with me
13:53:21	sideral	funman: This wiki page <http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AustriaMicrosystems> says you have various AMS datasheets?
13:53:22	funman	if he wants to work on clipv2 could someone who has it give a copy to him? (at condition of no redistribution)
13:54:07	gevaerts	Don't kugel and bertrik have it?
13:54:10	funman	sideral: yes, only the as3525 is publicly available on their website though
13:54:24	sideral	and a 400-pages folder full of dev info?
13:54:50	B4gder	funman: I don't have the as3543 one
13:55:24	funman	i probably gave them to bertrik kugel and also saratoga
13:56:10	sideral	funman: I'm not in a hurry, it would also be fine if you could send them to my later this week
13:57:00	funman	ah, found it in my mail archive; i'll give it to you
13:57:19	sideral	great, thanks!
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13:59:40	sideral	funman: do you have any other data sheets that might be relevant?
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14:01:52	funman	as3525 of course
14:02:25	funman	maybe as3514 too for comparison (i got that one from B4gder)
14:04:46	sideral	I do have the AS3525 one
14:05:44	sideral	AS3514 would be interesting
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14:08:37	kugel	I don't have the as3543 one
14:09:46	funman	give me your mail if you want to fix that 'bug' :)
14:10:28	kugel	i don't need it
14:10:36	kugel	or does it match any of our targets?
14:10:52	funman	amsv2
14:11:06	kugel	oh really?
14:11:22	sideral	the audio / powermgmt part only
14:11:22	funman	H i g h E n d St e r e o A u d i o C o d e c w i t h S y s t e m P M U
14:11:29	funman	s/ //g
14:11:52	kugel	ah right
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14:15:34	preglow	kugel: ever noticed playback stopping on android rockbox? halts completely until you seek around a bit
14:15:53	preglow	happens fairly often, ranging from every 5-20 mins
14:16:13	kugel	I had that constantly with the htc firmware and its bug, but not anymore since I switched to another rom
14:16:32	funman	++
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14:17:00	preglow	well, froyo now, all the other kinks vanished, but not that
14:17:14	preglow	what bug would this be, btw? still talking about the background scheduler bug?
14:17:32	kugel	ooops, I gave funman a wrong email :(
14:17:46	kugel	preglow: yes
14:17:50	preglow	well, that is gone
14:18:24	preglow	and no other apps doing sound playback has a similar problem
14:18:24	kugel	I haven't had a playback lockup since ages
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14:19:14	preglow	guess i'll have to stuff in some debugging then
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14:31:55	sideral	ah, that AS3543 data sheet has several bits that weren't in the header files yet. looking forward to playing with them tonight. :)
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14:36:45	pixelma	I had playback freezing on android after changing SD cards and the now current one didn't have a "rockbox" folder - happened when changing settings (such as volume) that would need to be written to config.cfg. I don't know what happens if e.g. the playlist control file would need to be updated
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14:41:57	sideral	I've posted an update to FS #11748 (autoresume) with a new proposal for simplifying the configuration. Anyone interested in commenting? (kugel, gevaerts, Llorean, pixelma?)
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14:42:57	pixelma	wow, I really read that "commenting" as "committing"...
14:43:17	sideral	I'd be happy with that as well ;)
14:43:29	Rim13	Hi. I have RockBox on ipod classic. I see error:"codec failure". This song is http://goo.gl/4x0ea . MediaInfo File: http://goo.gl/9ySUd .
14:44:00	pixelma	I won't do that, it's already to "low level" for me, I only do very small fixes, graphics and manual stuff
14:44:28	pixelma	Rim13: do other flacs work?
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14:44:53	Rim13	But this file RockBox can read http://goo.gl/UPUdL .
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14:45:47	Rim13	MediaInfo: http://goo.gl/HgT0N
14:45:55	pixelma	do you know what type the tags are (vorbis comments or other)?
14:47:59	Rim13	I don't know.
14:51:06	Rim13	MPC - HC 64bit (x64) v1.4.2499 play both files
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14:58:56	Rim13	What it is necessary to make that flac would be read RockBox?
14:59:05	pixelma	I can't see any obvious, maybe someone else has an idea
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15:03:07	Rim13	Thanks for the help
15:04:14	Rim13	I hope the answer will be
15:07:02	gevaerts	sideral: I think your proposal will at least solve the "it's too complicated" problem
15:08:15	sideral	gevaerts: Thanks for the feedback. Yes, that was the goal.
15:08:50	gevaerts	And for the audiobook case (which I guess means "a set of consecutive tracks"), I'd say the current bookmark system works well, so if your mechanism doesn't address those, that's not really a problem
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15:10:42	sideral	I think my mechanism now actually can work with audiobooks as well: Just exclude audiobooks from the resume-on-automatic-trackchange config. The only thing missing is finding the right track to start with.
15:10:54	sideral	And for that, bookmarks are better suited.
15:11:03	gevaerts	yes, exactly
15:11:50	gevaerts	Let's see what the others say.
15:11:57	pixelma	Rim13: the first file (Back on my Feet) plays in a Rockbox simulator on my PC. I tried that because it also gives some info when it fails usually. Do other FLACs play currently on your Ipod?
15:12:08	sideral	gevaerts: I actually have an idea that would simplify this as well (w/o having to go through bookmarks):
15:12:32	sideral	the DB browser could by default highlight the last-played track
15:12:37	sideral	but that's future work
15:12:45	gevaerts	How would that work?
15:13:31	n1s	Rim13: only so called "subset" (iirc) flac files are guaranteed to work
15:13:51	sideral	gevaerts: as you enter a DB view (say an album consisting of audiobook chapters in separate mp3 files), the tagtree checks the last-played property in the DB and highlights the youngest one
15:13:52	n1s	blocksize <= 4608 for example
15:14:23	pixelma	n1s: that file works in a current c200 sim
15:14:26	gevaerts	sideral: remember that not all supported players have an RTC, so you can't reliably use timestamps :)
15:14:33	gevaerts	A counter would work though
15:14:46	n1s	pixelma: ok, not a codec limitation then
15:15:00	sideral	gevaerts: oh ok
15:15:42	gevaerts	Also, on some players that do have an RTC, a hard reset (which you unfortunately still have to do every now and then...) resets the clock
15:15:54	sideral	we could also fake a logical clock for players that don't have an RTC
15:15:58	gevaerts	Which means that on my gigabeat the clock tends to not be set :)
15:16:26	sideral	where we make the last clock value persistent in nvram before poweroff
15:16:47	gevaerts	I'd just use a counter. You don't need actual time for this, just play order
15:17:17	sideral	I probably mean the same by "logical clock"
15:17:25	gevaerts	probably
15:18:24	gevaerts	We do have some sort of code that sets file modification timestamps in an increasing order on non-RTC players. I'm not sure how it works though
15:19:00	sideral	that's good feedback, thanks. I might tackle the DB highlighting thing next(ish) depending on demand
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15:19:27	sideral	it would be a good learning opportunity for the DB/tagtree
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15:20:03	sideral	But I have some questions to Slasheri first :)
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15:20:59	Rim13	this file RockBox can read http://goo.gl/UPUdL .
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15:22:19	Rim13	Please repeat again at I rumple irc it was updated
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15:25:09	sideral	gevaerts: Have you had a look at the comment above the config proposal? It's the summary you promised to read ;)
15:25:36	gevaerts	sideral: I read it together with your new proposal
15:25:50	gevaerts	That's why I brought up the audiobook thing
15:26:44	sideral	a cool
15:27:15	sideral	do you have comments regarding the base-mechanism discussion?
15:27:23		Quit DrewVosburg (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
15:28:20	gevaerts	Well, I don't really agree that the bookmarking system is a complex and fragile, but I do agree that it doesn't fit your goals
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15:31:09	gevaerts	I still think that a good solution would be to allow the database to update on demand (i.e. it would only add tracks to it when the autoresume thing needs them there, which ensures the database doesn't grow huge), but I don't see that as a blocker. It can easily be added later, without actually changing anything for how autoresume is implemented now
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15:36:43	sideral	fair enough. I actually do want to look at real-time DB extensions as a follow-on project
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15:38:07	sideral	I'll wait for some more feedback and then update my patch set accordingly, plus do the handbook changes
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15:40:54	sideral	thanks gevaerts
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16:24:33	dfkt\|x	i'm trying to build rockbox for android (on ubuntu 10), followed the readme and used the .sh file for installation - now i get the error "arm-linux-androideabi-gcc: not found" - how can i fix this?
16:29:19	dfkt\|x	i.e. i have no clue how to "make sure you have the ANDROID_SDK_PATH and ANDROID_NDK_PATH (pointing to
16:29:20	dfkt\|x	the each's root directory) environment variables set up"
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16:35:40	CapsAdmin	PANIC
16:35:47	CapsAdmin	Stack underflow... viewportmanager
16:36:00	CapsAdmin	I saw a patch for it, but I'm wondering how I can restart the ipod
16:37:27	CapsAdmin	it's unresponsive
16:37:46	n1s	press and hold menu+select
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16:38:02	CapsAdmin	oh
16:38:12	CapsAdmin	i thought it was just a press thing
16:38:27	CapsAdmin	I didn't know I had to hold those buttons for longer than 2 seconds
16:38:31	CapsAdmin	thanks
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17:00:40	gevaerts	dfkt\|x: "export ANDROID_SDK_PATH=/path/to/wherever/the/sdk/is" and similar for the ndk?
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17:02:58	dfkt\|x	gevaerts, i see folders for the sdk and ndk in my home directory, but this gives the same "not found" results
17:04:35	gevaerts	that part works for me
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17:10:58	[Saint]	preglow: noticed you talking about RaaA lockups...I get them all the time.
17:11:42	[Saint]	Except seeking back/forth won't make it come out of lock...the UI is respomsive and I can navigate normally....just no sound.
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17:23:37	amiconn	gevaerts, sideral: We do fake fat timestamps in rockbox, as vfat requires timestamps. But those are only strictly monotonic per file, not for the whole filesystem
17:24:01	gevaerts	ah, right. So useless for any other purpose
17:26:21	amiconn	It uses 3 rules: (1) For new files, start at build_date, 00:11:11. (2) When modifying a file and its old timestamp is before build_date, advance to build_date, 00:11:11. (3) Advance time by 00:11:11, when minutes wrap increment hour( /day/ month/year) and set min:sec back to 11:11
17:28:25	amiconn	The reasoning for 11 min 11 sec is to make those faked times easily recognisable. Thell always be xx:11:10, xx:22:22, xx:33:32, xx:44:44 or xx:55:54 when listed (deviation in the last digit due to fat's two-second modfication time precision)
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19:24:36	dfkt\|x	when i try to build rockbox for android, should there actually be a file called "arm-linux-androideabi-gcc" somewhere on the hdd? i still get the "not found" message, even if it's in my path, and the sdk and ndk have been installed properly
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19:29:09	dfkt\|x	besides that i also get "arm-linux-androideabi-ld: not found"
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19:37:19	gevaerts	dfkt\|x: yes, you need arm-linux-androideabi-gcc somewhere
19:39:26	dfkt\|x	gevaerts, meaning, it should definitely show up somewhere when i search for it in eg. nautilus?
19:39:52	gevaerts	In $ANDROID_NDK_PATH/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.4.3/prebuilt/linux-x66/bin
19:41:16	dfkt\|x	hmm, there is no /toolchains in my /home/dfkt/android-ndk-r5 directory
19:41:39	dfkt\|x	only /source and /tests
19:41:50	gevaerts	That doesn't look right then
19:41:50	markcrase	How difficult is it to patch my Clip+ with the usb fix?(I haven't seen a guide)
19:41:57	gevaerts	Was it unpacked correctly?
19:42:27	dfkt\|x	i ran installToolchain.sh from rockbox trunk /android
19:42:40	dfkt\|x	then i set up the sdk - there was no info on setting up the ndk
19:42:56	dfkt\|x	does the ndk need to be set up as well?
19:43:22	gevaerts	markcrase: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WorkingWithPatches and the pages it refers to
19:43:24	dfkt\|x	with setting up the sdk i mean i installed pretty much everything from 1.5 to 3.0
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19:44:38	gevaerts	dfkt\|x: do you still have the downloaded android-ndk-r5-linux-x86.tar.bz2?
19:44:39	dfkt\|x	also, i don't seem to be the owner of the ndk directory, it's got a big lock on it
19:44:46	gevaerts	Probably in /tmp/
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19:45:16	gevaerts	If you do, can you check how big that file is?
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19:45:32	dfkt\|x	gevaerts, not in tmp, but i downloaded the tar ball manually as well
19:45:48	gevaerts	I just downloaded it, and it does have toolchains
19:46:18	gevaerts	44362746 bytes, md5sum 49d5c35ec02bafc074842542c58b7eb3
19:46:20	dfkt\|x	indeed, just looked inside it, all is there
19:46:24	markcrase	Thanks gevaerts!
19:46:45	dfkt\|x	this one i didn't use however - i just used the rockbox .sh. twice, actually
19:47:26	dfkt\|x	i guess just extracting that over the borked install won't work?
19:47:36	gevaerts	it should
19:47:43	dfkt\|x	nice, i'll try
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19:52:18	dfkt\|x	gevaerts, appears to be working now, running make :)
19:52:40	gevaerts	dfkt\|x: that script should probably check md5sums :)
19:53:01	gevaerts	As should rockboxdev.sh, really
19:58:53	*	Bagder agrees
19:59:25	saratoga	rockboxdev can't setup the android tools?
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20:00:01	dionoea	untarring 2 files isn't too complicated :) (and I don't have a clue about rockboxdev)
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20:01:36	Bushmills	I prefer rsync with -c option (checksum tests for updates, copies only those)
20:02:40	gevaerts	Bushmills: that assumes rsync on the other end
20:03:05	Bushmills	not if rockbox device is mounted as usb storage
20:03:18	gevaerts	huh?
20:03:27	gevaerts	Rockbox devices are not involved here
20:03:29	Torne	rsync -c on local storage doesn't save any time
20:03:32	dfkt\|x	gevaerts, thank you very much. now it's working. i also had to chmod the ndk directory to a rude 777, since it was somehow locked
20:03:53	Bushmills	hm, just checking... i'm not on the wrong channel, am I?
20:04:13	gevaerts	Bushmills: we're discussing downloading toolchains
20:04:14	dfkt\|x	wonder why it had such weird permissions
20:04:21	Bushmills	ehm.
20:04:29	Bushmills	grin. foot in mouth situation
20:04:43	sideral	we don't have a general memory / device register hex editor tool or plugin, have we?
20:05:10	gevaerts	dfkt\|x: my guess is because the tar file was cut off before it got to the permissions bit
20:06:05	Torne	sideral: no. that kind of thing tends to lead to horrible accidents. ;)
20:06:28	Torne	sideral: e.g. if you turn off the bits on the ipod PMU that make it turn on when you press buttons or connect power. ;)
20:07:19	sideral	Torne: you wouldn't have to expose it to users :)
20:07:25	gevaerts	Battery disconnect time :)
20:07:39	*	gevaerts once had those registers connected to USB serial for easy testing
20:08:41		Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20:09:40	*	sideral wonders how you guys survived this long without a decent kernel debugger or gdb stub
20:10:04	gevaerts	sideral: you know how long linux did without those?
20:10:21	sideral	yes, I do
20:10:39	sideral	at least they have nicely decorated Oopses
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20:10:54	sideral	as a cheap replacement for a kernel core dump
20:11:29	gevaerts	We have nice panic messages :)
20:11:36	gevaerts	Complete with an address you can find!
20:12:16	sideral	but when I had much to do with Linux, I did have the fortune of having a microkernel-ish kernel debugger plugged under it
20:12:37	sideral	that was quite useful...
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20:14:44	Torne	sideral: having spent a long time doing development with full JTAG debugging I really don't think it's generally that useful
20:14:54	Torne	debugging stuff with printf and so on works a lot better most of the time
20:15:16	Torne	using "proper" tools is a big time investment and only worth it for things which are genuinely very hard to resolve
20:15:56	sideral	it can be very convenient, though
20:17:14	sideral	Also, JTAG typically is at the wrong level of abstraction: too low, doesn't know about kernel data structures
20:18:01	Torne	er, sure it does
20:18:12	Torne	JTAG is just a way to get access to memory/registers
20:18:18	Torne	same as a gdb stub
20:18:25	Torne	the debugging tool on top of that is free to do whatever it likes
20:18:29	Torne	the backend is uninteresting
20:19:07	sideral	OK, maybe the debugging tools I saw on top of JTAG were sub-par. I never saw a gdb connected via JTAG
20:19:24	Torne	gdb comes under "sub-par", no? ;)
20:19:45	sideral	but anyway, a kernel-specific in-kernel debugger that can traverse the kernel's structures is much more convenient than gdb
20:20:06	Torne	..why do you need something kernel specific for that?
20:20:11	Torne	it's an ELF binary, at some point
20:20:14	Torne	debuggers know how to do that
20:20:55	sideral	general-purpose debuggers don't know how to show all kernel threads blocked on something with a single-key command ;)
20:21:01	Torne	yes they do
20:21:06	Torne	your debugger sucks
20:21:51	Torne	learn to script ;)
20:22:02	sideral	we're likely not talking about the same thing :)
20:22:17	gevaerts	Torne: why? You said it's not worth it :)
20:22:24	sideral	let's just agree that gdb sucks ;)
20:23:10	Torne	sideral: a general-purpose debugger is one where I can write arbitrary scripts to interpret the contents of memory/registers any way I feel like
20:23:24	Torne	using the full debug info from the original binaries
20:24:05	sideral	I chose to "script" that stuff in C, within the kernel, back in the day
20:24:06	Torne	if it takes more than a one line script to turn a linkedlist/whatever based on a known struct from the dwarf data into a nice table you can sort by any column then your debugger is lame ;)
20:24:24	Torne	what's the point in that being in the kernel when you can do it in one line in the debugger anyway? :)
20:25:00	sideral	because it's not a one-liner to interactively traverse page tables, for example
20:25:04	Torne	yes it is
20:25:10	Torne	less than one line, in fact :)
20:25:10	sideral	no it is not
20:25:27	Torne	in trace32 it's "mmu.list"
20:25:47	sideral	ok, you win
20:26:04	sideral	because I wanted to do some audio debugging tonight ;)
20:26:05	Torne	or provide an address if you want a different page directory than the one currently in use
20:27:19	sideral	btw Torne, I had a go at Frotz with the game you recommended, Curses
20:27:57	sideral	I didn't get very far with the Clip keyboard ;)
20:28:07	Torne	yeah, i said :)
20:28:10	Torne	it's not exactly comfortable.
20:28:35	sideral	But it was cool to play with it anyway, and enough to do some basic exploration
20:30:08	*	Torne nods.
20:30:24	sideral	ok, now let me open that AS3543 datasheet...
20:30:26	Torne	My goal when I get around to it is to add a way to load keymaps that map player buttons to z-machine keys
20:30:39	Torne	and then try and encourage people to play z-machine games which use key input instead of line input
20:30:46	Torne	e.g. CYOA-style ones
20:32:03	sideral	that would be cool
20:33:45	Torne	there are quite a few, though not anywhere near as many as use line input of course
20:34:57	sideral	I wonder whether an input mode with a fixed vocabulary to choose from, as in early Lucasfilm adventures, would be helpful
20:35:12		Quit simonrvn (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
20:35:24	Torne	Yeah, there are other options I can steal from other frotz ports
20:35:38	Torne	One reasonable combination is having a textfile of commands that are available fro ma menu, common stuff
20:35:51	Torne	and maybe a mode where you ccan enter directions with arrows
20:36:00	Torne	and maybe a mode where you can select words from the screen to retype.
20:36:30	sideral	I'd try it if you did it ;)
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20:36:39	Torne	so you can go, say, click-scroll-"examine" (from menu), clicksomethingelse-scrollback-"ladder" (from previous output)
20:36:48	Torne	Well, they've been done before, GBAfrotz uses lots of tricks like that
20:36:54	Torne	because typing on the GBA is hilarious
20:37:12	Torne	i just haven't implemented them yet.
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21:26:17	saratoga	sideral: FS #8054 - set_gpio plugin
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21:52:05	sideral	saratoga: Nice start −− thanks!
21:52:26	saratoga	i've been meaning to dust that off for years and make it another test_* plugin
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21:54:44	sideral	saratoga: I'm compiling a list of things to try to tackle the annoying background noise on the ClipV2. Do you perhaps already have such a list?
21:55:39	saratoga	i would probably try and dump every audio/pmu related register and go through them for ones that look weird
21:55:54	pixelma	is this some hiss you can hear during disk access, or something else?
21:55:56	saratoga	maybe compare between the clipv2 and clip+ and look for differences
21:56:01	saratoga	its probably something in there thats not initialized correctly
21:56:13	saratoga	only reason i could think that you hear it during playback but not during radio
21:56:32	sideral	people have reported the problem for the clip+ as well
21:57:25	sideral	also, audio-wise there seems to be no difference in initialization between clipv2 and clip+
21:58:06	sideral	are you sure it's not there when using the FM radio?
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22:00:11	saratoga	IIRC its not
22:00:22	saratoga	theres some noise on the clip+ recently, but i don't think its the same
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22:01:52	sideral	I have no rockboxed clip+ to compare to right now. I'd have to rockbox my girl friend's clip+, and she'd hate it if something went wrong :)
22:04:37	sideral	saratoga: I can hear the clipv2 "think" in fm mode when muted. it just thinks less because there's nothing to DMA / decode, but if I use the UI I can hear the hissing sound I think
22:04:49	kugel	sideral: I think I like your proposal for auto resume. Just one question, how do you distinguish genres and paths in that setting?
22:04:51	saratoga	weird, i tested and coulnd't hear anything
22:05:21	sideral	saratoga: when I hold volume-down there is clicking
22:06:21	sideral	kugel: great, thanks for taking a look! In my last proposal, I would have just one comma-separated list of search strings that would be applied to both the genre tag and the file path
22:06:51	kugel	so how would the podcast dir/filename look like so it's matched by the setting?
22:07:58	sideral	say you leave the custom search string at "podcast". it would match all files that have "podcast" (case insensitive) in their file name, such as /PODCASTS/Foo/bar.mp3
22:08:21	sideral	or /bar/baz/foo-podcast.mp3
22:08:49	kugel	what about /sdcard/podcasts/foo.mp3?
22:09:36	sideral	works as well
22:09:43	kugel	cool
22:09:45	kugel	just a minor: I think a semi colon would work better as separater
22:10:17	sideral	hmm ok, why?
22:11:03	sideral	I don't think anyone would ever search for a path name with a comma in it?
22:11:07	kugel	less likely to be part of a filename and more commonly used I'd say
22:11:36	*	Bagder spots a mail...
22:12:15	sideral	I've thought a bit about this before and found "comma-separated" to be most self-describing to the user and the shortest variant as well
22:12:54	gevaerts	kugel: "part of a filename" is irrelevant as long as it's not part of a pattern
22:12:59	sideral	the only downside I see is that you can't search for the comma itself. but OTOH, I don't really care that much which it is
22:13:42	gevaerts	One thing I'm not sure about is if the search strings should match an entire path component or not
22:14:48	sideral	gevaerts: I don't think so. I like that the default "podcast" matches the OF's standard dir for podcasts on my player, which happens to be called "PODCASTS" (mind the "s" at the end)
22:15:07	kugel	I couldn't put a podcast folder into the root on RaaA
22:15:28	gevaerts	sideral: it does increase the chance of false positives a bit
22:16:05	dionoea	kugel: I've uploaded the new android widget patch
22:16:07	sideral	gevaerts: right. but users can protect against it by searching for "/podcast/" instead
22:16:11	dionoea	(as well as some screenshots)
22:16:14	gevaerts	ah, right
22:16:34	gevaerts	Well, only if they don't use genre tag matching
22:16:40	sideral	yeah
22:16:50	gevaerts	hm, maybe I do prefer separate genre and filename matching lists
22:17:01	kugel	dionoea: how hard is adding other sizes?
22:17:03	gevaerts	Well, it's not a major issue either way
22:17:29	sideral	gevaerts: :) I think this is making a good tradeoff
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22:18:37	dionoea	kugel: fairly easy
22:18:43	*	sideral got mail...
22:18:47	enthdegree	zoop da doop, my clip + arrived, time to look for ti84 emulators I can port
22:18:48	kugel	and album art? ;)
22:18:56	dionoea	kugel: just add stuff to the manifest, create a layout and a dummy class
22:19:30	sideral	Thanks guys, it's an honor
22:19:33	dionoea	kugel: that might be a bit harder. Depends if we can just get the resource's path on the sdcard or if we must send binary from rockbox.
22:20:00	dionoea	but it's definitely doable
22:20:08	kugel	the path should be relatively easy
22:20:21	dionoea	I just don't have any album art on any of my music so I'll let someone else work it out
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22:20:51	kugel	you sent plain multimedia keys right? so the keys should be working with other apps
22:21:45	kugel	I wonder if there's some kind of standard/de facto API for music widgets
22:22:08	dionoea	that would be nice yeah.
22:23:34	dionoea	and I don't think that I send multimedia key intents ... don't remember why though.
22:24:21	dionoea	I should fix that
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22:25:21	dionoea	probably didn't want other applications to receive them (but that's not a good excuse, I could have targeted the intent to the rockbox media button receiver)
22:25:49	kugel	does it even need intents?
22:26:02	dionoea	yes, the widget is a different process
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22:26:27	dionoea	I'm not sure if it's one process per widget or for all of a widget provider's widgets
22:26:44	dionoea	probably one per widget provider
22:27:56	kugel	https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_frameworks_policies_base/commit/0be3df4b706fe1ff11c5bc49ae917d52e7ec40f0 shows how to broadcast them, but I don't know if apps/widget can do it as well
22:29:23	enthdegree	If I wrote a TI ROM emulator plugin would it be committed?
22:31:03	dionoea	kugel: everyone can broadcast any intent if I understand those correctly
22:31:56	dionoea	it might be a bit weird if we broadcast standard intents but can't be updated by other media applications
22:32:38	dionoea	(especially if intents like play launch the corresponding service)
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22:35:01	kugel	dionoea: unfortunately we can't do that yet :(
22:35:29	dionoea	is it technically impossible?
22:35:38	dionoea	or just due to the current rockbox app code infrastructure ?
22:36:00	kugel	I'd say it's mostly that nobody has looked into it
22:36:02		Part vnl
22:36:10	dionoea	ok, so it's possible :D
22:36:23	kugel	most probably
22:37:09	dionoea	also, I don't know if other people noticed it, but it seems that the pcm driver sometimes gets stuck and needs a pause/play to start again
22:37:18	enthdegree	/join #rockbox-dev
22:37:22	enthdegree	oops
22:37:33	krazykit	you're in the dev channel
22:37:54	dionoea	enthdegree: if the plugin is good enough it probably would
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22:38:00	dionoea	(but then that's not up to me :p)
22:38:02	enthdegree	Kool. How much ram is available for the Clip + to use?
22:38:05	kugel	dionoea: some people have reported that but it works just fine for me
22:38:37	dionoea	kugel: it might depend on the hardware / android version. I had it on a Nexus One with stock roms 2.2.1 and 2.2.2
22:38:55	dionoea	I'll probably try to write a native driver when they decide to send the 2.3 OTA update
22:39:46	enthdegree	well, I ask that because I notice that good plugins like the improved wikipedia/dictionary reader are left as patches while trash like rockblox1d, jackpot, robotfindskitten, and 3 versions of snake are left intact
22:39:47	kugel	you could install CM7 (nightly builds)
22:40:05	*	Bagder adds committer #95 and welcomes sideral onboard
22:40:13	dionoea	I don't want to risk anything :) The default build is just fine for my needs
22:40:16	kugel	sideral: \o/
22:40:27	Bagder	sideral: please start with adding yourself to docs/COMMITTERS
22:40:31	sideral	jippie! Thanks guys
22:40:34	gevaerts	enthdegree: there are serious reasons to not commit the wikipedia plugin
22:40:49	enthdegree	Oh, I was not aware of them.
22:40:51	sideral	Badger: will do
22:40:59	krazykit	enthdegree, whoa whoa, robotfindskitten is the best plugin for rockbox. you must not "get it"
22:41:05	gevaerts	They happen to be documented on the tracker
22:41:35	enthdegree	aah, I did not mean robotfindskitten, I play that all the time!!
22:43:58	saratoga	enthdegree: 8MB DRAM, 1MB IRAM
22:44:20	enthdegree	saratoga: Thank you! Where did you get that info?
22:44:31	saratoga	datasheet
22:44:47	saratoga	err i guess funman told me when he reverse engineered it
22:45:20	pixelma	sideral: welcome, but please stay a bit calm (as you currently do) about the controversial features :)
22:45:57	saratoga	no instead commit a malloc feature for rockbox
22:46:15	sideral	:)
22:46:35	sideral	I thought I'd first commit my custom keymap
22:48:16	pixelma	for?
22:49:04	sideral	why, for the archos ondio fm of course ;)
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22:49:51	pixelma	sideral: because keymap changes can also lead to discussions from users, ask Llorean ;)
22:50:15	pixelma	not to discuss but about his experiences with keymap changes
22:51:20		Quit user890104 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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22:52:08	sideral	pixelma: I do in fact think that my keymap (for the ClipV2) is superior, but I was just joking. I'll keep my keymap for myself for the time being ;)
22:52:29		Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:53:49	pixelma	I'm not opposed to these kind of changes if they improve things, but don't underestimate people getting used to something
22:54:05		Quit Topy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:54:13	kugel	superior sounds good :)
22:54:30	pixelma	and I won't comment on the Clip's keymaps because I don't have such a device myself
22:55:52	sideral	It's very tempting, but I'll keep shut in this topic for today ;)
22:56:20	sideral	I'm trying to figure out how svn authentication works with git-svn...
22:57:49	pixelma	before I committed some changes to the c200 keymap, I still put up patches to the tracker for people to try and comment
22:59:04	sideral	pixelma: That would be my plan as well. There's already a lengthy FS item on Clip keymaps, but I still prefer my own over the ones posted there
22:59:44	kugel	sideral: just make the first commit with svn, git-svn will pickup the authentification information
23:00
23:03:18	dionoea	how do you push stuff upstream with git-svn? does it just require a call to git push? (I've never used it but will probably switch my rockbox checkout to git-svn soon)
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23:07:19	*	dionoea reads the man page
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23:10:11	CIA-7	New commit by sideral (r29151): Added myself to COMMITTERS
23:10:32	thomasjfox	kugel: funny android dpad patch. you have to apply all the intermediate versions :o)
23:10:58	kugel	thomasjfox: hey o/
23:11:38	kugel	I've lost all track about this task, so many patches and comments
23:11:44		Quit factor (Quit: Leaving)
23:12:47	thomasjfox	kugel: I've seen your dlopen fix. Good work. Didn't try it yet as my PC is into pieces right now (new mobo).
23:12:48	sideral	dionoea: That's done with "git svn dcommit"
23:13:33	dionoea	and just git svn clone svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk to init the repo ? (seems to be copying stuff from the website part of the repo too)
23:13:49	CIA-7	r29151 build result: All green
23:13:51	thomasjfox	kugel: I got all confused by just reading the FS entry...
23:13:52	sideral	yeah
23:14:02	kugel	dionoea: cloning from svn is time consuming
23:14:04	AlexP	sideral: Doesn't it prompt you? It is a while since I set mine up, so I can't remember what I did :)
23:14:16	dionoea	kugel: is there an alternative ?
23:14:34		Quit Stummi (Quit: Leaving...)
23:14:35	kugel	if you only care about trunk, then we already have a git mirror for it; it doesn't include tags and branches (and www, etc) though
23:14:53	sideral	dionoea: you can clone the existing git clone at git://git.rockbox.org/rockbox
23:15:02	dionoea	oh, nice. And can I use it to push stuff upstream afterwards?
23:15:09	kugel	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GitVersionControl
23:15:15	dionoea	ah nice, thanks.
23:15:16	AlexP	tags and branches are quite useful now that we do point releases
23:15:20		Quit enthdegr1e (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
23:15:31	sideral	no, for that you need to set up the svn stuff.
23:15:41	AlexP	Or now that we have done one :)
23:15:48	dionoea	but i can set it up on top of the git clone right ?
23:15:51	sideral	but that should be faster once you've cloned the existing git repo
23:15:57	dionoea	ok, great. thanks
23:16:21	kugel	the page I linked has all steps from clong to being able to push upstream
23:16:22	sideral	see the wiki page kugel cited
23:16:30	kugel	thomasjfox: that's unfortunate
23:16:53	AlexP	Speaking of keymaps, I'd quite like to be able to get to the menu from the WPS on android without having to go all the way back through the file tree
23:17:12	kugel	press menu
23:17:20	AlexP	that brings up the context menu
23:17:48	kugel	not anymore
23:18:02	AlexP	ah, I must be out of date
23:18:06	AlexP	ta
23:18:32	thomasjfox	kugel: how do you access the context menu now?
23:18:52	thomasjfox	the maemo cabbie version has the same "issue"
23:19:08	kugel	the C icon
23:19:17	kugel	on the pop up
23:19:21	AlexP	kugel: actually, sorry - menu from wps does take me to the menu, but menu in the filetree is context menu (as well as long press being context menu) - is this fixed too?
23:19:31	kugel	not yet
23:19:54	AlexP	OK
23:20:00	kugel	but it should
23:20:08	AlexP	yeah :)
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23:29:39	dfkt	i'm starting to remake on of my WPS themes for a 240x400 archos android - is there any website upload mechanism for such a case yet?
23:29:43	dfkt	*one
23:33:42	pixelma	this resolution is the same as the Ondas, guess you can reuse that
23:34:58	dfkt	true, i tried the onda themes on the player - they worked halfway, will use that for now - thanks pixelma
23:35:52		Quit L-Strife89 (Quit: Vamoose!)
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23:43:28	kugel	dfkt: as cabbie is the default theme the tracker would be appropriate; otherwise the theme site
23:43:42	AlexP	kugel: What is the large amount of data space that Rockbox starts using once you run it once?
23:43:56	AlexP	It goes from a 3 MB ish install to 11 or 12
23:44:14	kugel	I guess 11 or 12 :)
23:44:27	*	kugel misread
23:44:32	AlexP	I mean why does it, and is there anyway to stick it on SD
23:44:40	AlexP	*any way
23:44:43	kugel	it's unzipping codecs and themes et all
23:45:08	kugel	moving to sd is possible but it doesn't help much
23:45:12	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:45:24	AlexP	Yeah, at the moment - I meant can those bits not be offloaded?
23:45:31	AlexP	Just as it is a rather large install
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23:50:20	kugel	I think it's possible but I haven't looked into it
23:50:29	AlexP	OK, no worries :)
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23:51:43	AlexP	kugel: Also, (sorry for badgering you :)), is the patch to make the items better spaced out on flyspray as I can't find it
23:52:02	kugel	no
23:52:17	AlexP	Do you have a link to it to hand?
23:52:31	AlexP	With my fat fingers I find it not very useable without
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