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#rockbox log for 2011-01-31

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00:41:42kugelgrr, I object to r29174 and it probably also breaks embedded albumart
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00:43:15JdGordon1well embedded AA isnt on the table so big deal
00:43:36JdGordon1and that looks like a sane change untill the id3 mem usage handling is done better
00:44:02kugelJdGordon1: I worked embedded AA it today and it looks like it could be done rather nicely
00:44:45kugelJdGordon1: since when do you think artificial limits are sane?
00:45:08JdGordon1I tihnk the mp3entry struct is a stupid place to put the aa image
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00:45:31kugelnobody puts the aa image into the mp3entry struct
00:45:41JdGordon1then why does that change cause problems?
00:46:13kugelthe size of the image relates to the frame length
00:46:33kugelthe size is saved is in the mp3entry
00:48:25*JdGordon1 admits to having no clue how id3 info is layed out
00:48:31kugelif the frame length is capped the size will be wrong
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00:48:56JdGordon1is the actual frame stored?
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00:50:19kugelno, but the size of file offset is calculated using the frame length
00:51:31kugelI still think parsing comments last and only limit these is the better solution
00:51:46kugel(except a solution which removes all limits of course)
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00:53:58JdGordon1where do the pointers in mp3entry actually point to?
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00:54:50kugelid3v2buf in the struct
00:55:57JdGordon1and its all copied before use right?
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00:57:57JdGordon1hmm... /me decides to not try to think about buffering/mem allocation
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01:02:12kugelJdGordon1: I imagine you could parse in two passes, the first pass collects the total space needed and offset of the actual data, the section allocates the size on the audio buffer and actually stores the data into memory
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01:02:54kugelbut I guess that's a bit of work
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01:03:13JdGordon1I was thinking that also
01:03:52JdGordon1but you need to be careful with the big items because the mp3entry struct is copied off the MoB IIRC when the track is started
01:04:22kugelit would even make things simpler
01:04:30JdGordon1any frame larger than X shuold be handled differently, it shouldnt just outright be rejected though
01:04:55kugelnow you need special handling when copying a mp3entry; if the pointers don't point into the struct anymore than a memcpy() is enough
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01:06:56kugelJdGordon1: with Buschels commit they are not rejected, they're just cut off
01:07:15kugelwhich might be ok for strings, but is fatal for album art
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01:51:55kugelUnhelpful: any tip where I can find more information about desync and non-id3v2 embedded album art?
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01:54:55kugelgoogle is really useless here
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02:00:23Unhelpfulkugel: really? the id3v2 specs should be able to tell you about desync.
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02:12:06kugelUnhelpful: is interpreting a desync as normal file largely affecting the output?
02:13:26Unhelpfulkugel: ...yes, obviously the insertion of null bytes will have an impact on decoding if you don't remove them correctly?
02:13:50kugelbut is it noticeable?
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02:15:04Unhelpfulkugel: of course it will be.
02:15:20kugeli.e. would the output be completely garbled or would it only result in one black pixel among hundreds of correct ones?
02:15:37kugelit's not obvious to me, I'm not into how jpeg works
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02:20:32kugelUnhelpful: so, garbled?
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02:23:12Unhelpfulkugel: things will be very wrong until the next restart marker, if the jpeg in question *has* restart markers.
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02:24:05kugelis there a way to tell whether an image needs unsynchronisation or not?
02:25:36Unhelpfulyes, there's a bit set in the headers for a tag if it uses unsynchronization.
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02:28:10kugelI think it's not too imported to handle desync if it's not recommended anyway and (hopefully) normal pictures are more common
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02:28:30kugelwe only handle a subset of jpeg already and it has never been a real problem
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02:32:14Unhelpfulyes, but on the other hand we would *need* to handle input filtering for pretty much any other tag format.
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03:07:10S_a_i_n_tJdGordon1: I'm not sure of the fix required...but since the view playlist menu doesn't automatically jump to WPS on selection, there needs to be some sinsederation for conditional UI viewports/playmode
03:07:40JdGordon1some what?
03:07:48S_a_i_n_tI have my UI viewport change conditional to playmode, and it uncovered an ugly-ass bug there.
03:08:26S_a_i_n_toh, *consideration
03:08:39kugelUnhelpful: how does embedded aa work on other tag formats?
03:08:46JdGordon1im still not sure what you are talking about...
03:08:53JdGordon1presumably the theme you sent sat night?
03:09:12Unhelpfulkugel: afaict the "standard" for using vorbis tags is to base64-encode :(
03:09:28S_a_i_n_tcorrect, if you load it up and start playback from the view current playlist'll see it.
03:09:38JdGordon1I havnt yet
03:09:52S_a_i_n_tthe code seems fine, but it doesn't appear to work in this instance.
03:10:02JdGordon1tonight maybe
03:10:24S_a_i_n_tsweet...I'd just like you to see it so you know what I'm talking about ;)
03:10:31S_a_i_n_tIt's very hard to explain.
03:10:33Unhelpfuli can't say for APEv2. *fortunately* you won't need to deal w/ base64 for flac, since it has support for album art outside the vorbis tags. *unfortunately* that's a whole new type of tag data to deal with that we probably only know how to skip over right now.
03:16:47S_a_i_n_tWould it be ok to change the "We have a font-pack that is built every day with a bunch of extra fonts." on the extras page?
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03:17:08S_a_i_n_tto "We have a font it is" or similar.
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03:20:20kugelUnhelpful: that's a bummer, but I try to have a look at the other formats seems to sugegst that "built every day" may be a bit of a lie.
03:21:36JdGordon1the extras page is in the wiki right?
03:21:42S_a_i_n_tOr, if it is built doesn't appear to be uploaded to Either way it says it was last touched in September 09
03:21:59S_a_i_n_tJdGordon1: yes.
03:22:29S_a_i_n_tThat's why I asked if it wa sok to change it.
03:22:34S_a_i_n_t*was ok
03:23:21JdGordon1sounds like something to talk to Bagder about... I dont see the font zip on eithr
03:23:49S_a_i_n_tit's in daily/fonts
03:24:02S_a_i_n_tyet the last touched date is 23-Sep-2009
03:24:23JdGordon1i meant
03:24:57S_a_i_n_twas it ever in there?
03:25:10JdGordon1 suggests it should be
03:25:38S_a_i_n_tI don't remember it being in there personally, but that doesn't say much.
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04:47:30stonefozhello all, anyone here that could help set up a debug compile, build system seems broken
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04:54:07S_a_i_n_tstonefoz: What development system are you trying to set up, on what OS?
04:55:41stonefozbuild on current svn, on linux. when enabling debug, the app/record tries to use macro H_TOBE32, i haven't a clue where else it's at in the source though
04:56:49stonefoznormal build works just fine, wanted to know where 'H_TOBE32' came from though, looks like it generates canary values for debug builds
04:58:13stonefozwas going to do some janitor work first, getting a working debug, but... i'm still a noob on rockbox at least
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05:01:13stonefozbetter question is, besides trying to get my stuff to log for debug, does the community do much with logging, or is most of the development with simulators and jtag?
05:03:38S_a_i_n_tJdGordon1: Do you know what magic I need to envoke to enable test_* plugins on RaaAoA?
05:03:58S_a_i_n_tIt seems enabling them in configure isn't enough.
05:04:01JdGordon1lots and lots
05:04:10JdGordon1plguins rent built for raaaaaa
05:04:33S_a_i_n_tkugel has test_codec results I assume it's possible.
05:04:45JdGordon1so ask him :p
05:04:54S_a_i_n_tI don't care for plugin-plugins...I just want the test_* ones
05:06:36S_a_i_n_t~75K% realtime for flac is pretty impressive.
05:07:10JdGordon1put on -c50000 mpc and see how it goes
05:09:28S_a_i_n_tmpc_350 gets a pretty reasonable ~4.5K%
05:10:02S_a_i_n_tI realised I missed a decimal in the previous post...7.5K%
05:10:21*JdGordon1 prods saratoga about doing the NEON optimisations :)
05:10:44saratogaJdGordon1: i don't have any devices with NEON
05:10:52JdGordon1so? :D
05:12:21saratogabut yeah neon looks fun eventually, although plain armv6 is probably more useful since so many more devices have it
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05:14:32saratogaplus it looks like a lot of android stuff is going Tegra, and that doesn't support NEON
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09:01:39B4gder"@chaikovsky While we're talking about #Rockbox , shoutout to open-source software that clearly cares about accessibility!"
09:01:45B4gdera happy user on twitter
09:02:14S_a_i_n_tBetter than the alternative.
09:02:20S_a_i_n_tthat's awesome.
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12:02:44foo|shkugel: come on guy, I want to be your friend, leave the frame buffer code to us guys who learned how to program in 48k of ram and 1.2Mhz processors, You don't want all that java magic in there , makes it slow.
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13:15:57*gevaerts wishes that people wouldn't use flyspray as a place to dump their flow of consciousness
13:17:05*foo|sh ran into the hardest knot of code he ever saw and wanted help, sorry
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13:22:18Zagorgevaerts: ?
13:22:51gevaertsZagor: some of the recent android-related tracker items have been a bit verbose I think
13:23:05foo|shZagor: FS #11898 & FS #11903
13:23:26*foo|sh apologizes again
13:24:01ZagorI don't think it's a problem as long as it stays in one task. we all work in different ways.
13:25:10Zagorotoh I can see how 11903 is seen as a bit excessive :)
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13:25:53Zagorfoo|sh: do you answer the dpad objections anywhere?
13:26:33gevaertsI think it makes it hard(er than needed) to follow the task if you're not directly involved, and probably even if you are
13:26:40foo|shZagor: could you be more specific? I'm old
13:27:38Zagorfoo|sh: your patch assumes the presence of a dpad, which only ~20% of android phones have
13:28:26Zagorand with the plethora of tabs coming this spring, I expect that ratio to shrink even more
13:28:53foo|shno It removes kugels work around, exercises demons and restores sanity to the buttons, it treats the dpad as a regular button.
13:29:16Zagoryes, but how does it work on phones that don't have a dpad?
13:29:49Zagorit uses the on-screen 3x3 grid?
13:29:59vedosheyoo! :)
13:30:05vedoswhat's up dudes?
13:32:35foo|shZagor: I never touch that handler it has its own function,I just straighted out the buttonhandler's assumptions of how rockbox handles key presses.
13:33:17Zagorfoo|sh: I'm talking about fs#11898
13:33:55Zagorit uses a dpad to control plugins. how is that done on devices without a physical dpad? does it use the 3x3 touchscreen grid?
13:34:06foo|shthats preliminary work FS #11903 is the hard knot. sorry
13:34:26pixelmawhich plugins?
13:34:59foo|shas many plugins as I can
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13:42:04pixelmaI think there are some plugins already prepared for touchscreen devices (either for a grid, or maybe with own touch regions (not sure about that though)) and I'd assume it would at least use that
13:43:50foo|shpixelma: there are and most work great so far as they are now
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13:47:14S_a_i_n_tWhile there's a few people here on the topic...isn't it still very much up in the air as to what plugins RaaA should actually include?
13:47:47B4gderwhy not simply all that works?
13:47:47S_a_i_n_tI was under the impression only things like fft and related plugins were of any real use.
13:48:31LinusNimho, rockbox on android should only be a music player application
13:49:01S_a_i_n_tI'm of a similar opinion..but I see some plugins being usefull.
13:49:18S_a_i_n_tfft, oscilloscope, pictureflow and friends.
13:49:24*B4gder looks forward to the day rockbox enters the android market
13:49:36pixelmaB4gder: because there are probably better suited, "native" apps for some things
13:50:00foo|shS_a_i_n_t: You named a few good ones to me once but who knows what someone else wants. If my code speeds up the framebuffer then who cares, let the plugins run free.
13:50:04B4gdersure, but then i guess nobody will use those plugins
13:50:11B4gderits not like they will hurt people (much)
13:50:23gevaertsIf they can be installed to the sd card, sure
13:50:29gevaertsIf not, I'd rather not have them
13:50:30B4gderah true
13:50:39B4gderthat's the hurt point I guess
13:50:59Zagoralso, we probably want dynamic plugin buffer allocation
13:51:06Zagordo we already?
13:51:09S_a_i_n_tyeah, that's my beef...the apk size will jump.
13:51:11LinusNand having a bunch of virtually useless plugins just makes rockbox look bad on that platform
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13:51:36dionoeayou could theoretically have a second apk for plugins
13:51:51gevaertsThat could be an option
13:51:54LinusNsure, but do we really want to work on those?
13:52:02pixelmaplugbox ;)
13:52:04*foo|sh as time
13:52:09dionoeano, but do we want to prevent other people from working on those?
13:52:10ZagorLinusN: I don't think that's a big problem. if the rest is good, a few superflous plugins is not going to make a big difference I think
13:52:17pixelmaoh wait, that somehow sounds familiar
13:53:16dionoeaif integration was a big issue you'd probably just use rockbox as a lib and code a brand new ui using the android framework
13:53:34LinusNdionoea: exactly my vision
13:54:07*linuxstb has the same vision
13:54:12*gevaerts agrees
13:54:18gevaertsA lot of work though
13:54:27gevaerts(if you want to do it properly)
13:57:59gevaertsA proper library split would also allow for other fun stuff like isolating the playback engine for easy debugging
13:58:55Zagorand auto tests
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13:59:17B4gderwe could perhaps also lure over other android apps authors to this work if we get some performance comparisons on android
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13:59:47gevaertsLet's do it!
13:59:55*gevaerts summons Mr Someone
13:59:58B4gderthe subjects audio codecs and ffmpeg are very frequent on the android ndk list
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14:01:28kugelB4gder: should we step in and show off? ;)
14:01:53kugelfoo|sh: I'm sorry but I'm not able to follow you on FS #11903
14:02:02B4gderI think our offer isn't as attractive though as long as our codecs are "embedded" in rockbox as-is
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14:02:26foo|shkugel: buddy it's ok I can't understand your code :)
14:02:42B4gderbut if we'd show that our codecs are N% better, it could be a start
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14:03:40kugelfoo|sh: the generic button code is there, and we're not gonna change it just for android
14:04:17foo|shkugel: the generic button code includes a work around its just not right
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14:04:26kugelit works by polling either the hw or some variable where interrupts store the button state (on non-RaaA targets) every 10ms
14:04:41kugeland it works well
14:04:52foo|shkugel: like keyWaspressed?
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14:05:02foo|shworks perfectly
14:05:30kugelI see no reason to do it differently in android, especially since onKeyDown and Up are acting as interrupts
14:05:30kugelI see no reason to do it differently in android, especially since onKeyDown and Up are acting as interrupts
14:06:05foo|shthen why did you do it differently in button-application?
14:06:20kugelZagor: part of foo|sh' problem is that his phone is actually a hacked winmo device which has a real dpad with real buttons instead of a trackball/pad
14:06:44kugelbutton-application.c just maps android buttons to rockbox buttons
14:06:49kugelit contains no logic
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14:06:55foo|shonKeydown is not evaluated as an interrupt sorry its broken
14:07:16kugelit sure is
14:07:32kugelit comes once, and until the next onKeyUp the button is still being held
14:07:42kugelwhich is why it's saved in last_btns
14:08:32foo|shit comes in once and every tick there after step through the code on paper you can see it yourself.
14:08:57kugelevery tick after last_btns is used
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14:10:42kugeland this is entirely correct
14:10:56foo|shand your code looks for button releases and sends the button received right before that. and this cannot be right. sorry even the scroll ball/track pad can't work well this way your comments prove that in button-application
14:11:24kugelare you saying the menu and back button are malfunctioning?
14:11:31kugelthey are not, they work as they should
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14:12:21kugelwe do have a work around for the trackball, but that's because the ball/optical sensor work and I can see the work around doesn't work on your hacked device
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14:14:03Zagorin my view a dpad and trackball are very different devices
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14:14:23foo|shkugel: Have you tried the Sanity_API-1.0 patch?
14:14:30foo|shZagor: how so?
14:14:35kugelI haven't tried any of your patches
14:14:59Zagorfoo|sh: for one, you can hold in the buttons on a dpad. you cannot do that with a trackball.
14:15:49Zagortrackballs don't have press and release events like dpads
14:16:00Zagorexcept for the center button
14:16:08foo|shZagor: of course not that would crazy. but looking for releases only is also wrong.
14:17:18Zagoris it? what type of events do you get from android for the trackball?
14:17:39kugelI think it's down and up immediately after another
14:17:46foo|shthere you go then
14:17:56kugelwhich with our tick resolution is prone to be missed entirey
14:17:57Zagorkugel: that's rather odd
14:18:11Zagorkugel: aren't they messages on a queue?
14:19:33kugelno, input events are dispatched like interrupts onto views
14:21:41Zagorcan you point me to some docs?
14:21:50foo|shexcept the onKeyDown event never gets interrupted and continues hammering buttonhandler the whole time the button is pressed
14:22:27kugelZagor:, look for event processing
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14:24:10ZagoronTrackballEvent() looks good?
14:25:38kugelthat's more scrollwheel like and requires a more complicated driver
14:25:47foo|shAh MotionEvent
14:25:58kugeland I'm not sure it would better, since currently the trackball works good
14:26:48Zagorkugel: can you select to get onKeyDown() or onTrackbacllEvent() from the trackball?
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14:27:24foo|shkugel: works good with a work around in place, Thomas you're locking out every other android device with that work around.
14:28:03kugelfoo|sh: no I'm not, since there's no android device which has a dpad like yours
14:28:18Zagorkugel: how does his differ from, say, the motorola droid?
14:28:28kugelall android devices have either a trackball, a trackpad with otical sensor or neither of both
14:28:36foo|sheven slide out keyboards are broken
14:29:09Zagorkugel: uh, what? no. devices with physical keyboards don't always have ball or sensor. some have cursor keys only, some none at all.
14:29:36kugelsome have cursor keys?
14:30:20foo|shkugel: please try my last patch in FS #11903 please buddy
14:32:01*kugel has limited time currently
14:32:02Zagorkugel: motorola droid 2 has no dpad, no ball, no sensor. only cursor keys.
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14:32:57*foo|sh did not want to make kugel feel bad
14:33:10S_a_i_n_tI dount you did.
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14:35:28*foo|sh still thinks kugel is a genius for working around a broken interrupt
14:35:52Zagorhe has done a heck of a job with the android port
14:36:02S_a_i_n_tyou have a weird way of showing it with "your work is broken".
14:36:29foo|shthats what bugs are all about
14:36:52S_a_i_n_tNo, but you said that multiple times.
14:37:28foo|shI know this but It's really between he and I
14:37:45S_a_i_n_tthis is a *community*
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14:52:15Unhelpfulkugel: say WHAT? i have no cursor keys or physical cursor control at all. why would it be a *requirement* to have such on a touchscreen?
14:52:54kugelI didn't say that
14:53:20ZagorUnhelpful: "or neither of both"
14:53:32Unhelpfulah, "or neither" :D
14:57:34S_a_i_n_tCan an iPod running RB (or otherwise) do line in and out at the same time?
15:01:47S_a_i_n_tI'm wiring a cable and wondering if I should wire a switch, or try to fit two 3.5mm minijacks in a ridax connector.
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15:11:03S_a_i_n_tHmmm...I just had an idea: If we could draw a gradient as the bg in the default viewport (being able to draw one in any viewport would be cool though) we could stop having target dependant backdrops for cabbiev2 colour targets.
15:11:45S_a_i_n_tI suspect there is already code to do a bitonal gradient fill, I base this suspicion solely on the line selector.
15:12:48S_a_i_n_tthat would make having a "default" theme for RaaA a LOT easier
15:14:27S_a_i_n_t...possibly. variable positioning of the additional elements that make up the skin would be a PITA.
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15:46:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:47:31n1sS_a_i_n_t: could we not just ship one size backdrop and scale it on load then?
15:47:52n1susing a gradient limits the options far more than a bmp
15:48:00S_a_i_n_tn1s: scaling images looks crap.
15:48:14S_a_i_n_tand, I disagree.
15:50:21n1show can you disagree? a bmp can be made of any gradient, a gradient can not make any bmp
15:50:55n1ss/any bmp/every bmp/
15:51:05*linuxstb hasn't been keeping up - is the Android port a single binary which will work on any screen size?
15:51:08S_a_i_n_tI just don't think scaling the images is really an option.
15:52:02S_a_i_n_twhereas the cabbie backdrop is just a gradient, and everything could just be positioned on top of that.
15:52:33*foo|sh is standing in the middle of that one
15:52:44foo|shtring to figure that out
15:52:47S_a_i_n_twps could have a kind of "sources" file, where screen sizes greater than X get image set A, greater than Y get image set B
15:53:15S_a_i_n_tscaling one backdrop will look terrible on small targets and large ones.
15:53:45n1sS_a_i_n_t: the default theme could change, i think limiting backdrops to gradients
15:53:53n1ss/think/don't like/
15:54:11S_a_i_n_tit's not limiting *all* backdrops.
15:54:15S_a_i_n_tdon't get me wrong.
15:54:26S_a_i_n_tjust this one case for cabbie.
15:54:54S_a_i_n_tthat could save ~200Kb in one backdrop.
15:55:10S_a_i_n_t(depending on screensize of course)
15:55:11n1swell, the defauld could change, it's just a coincidense the the defualt has a gradient backdrop with only a logo
15:55:34kugelthere's no logo on the menu backdrop (yet) :)
15:55:37linuxstbThat memory wouldn't be saved in RAM though - unless you rewrite how backdrops are handled in the LCD drivers. You would just render the backdrop at runtime instead of loading it from a bmp
15:55:44S_a_i_n_tA coincidence that makes target independant builds one step easier.
15:56:09B4gderit would rather imply a gradient-fill command for the wps
15:56:35S_a_i_n_tB4gder: I assume the code is already there.
15:56:43B4gderI doubt that
15:56:45S_a_i_n_tthe line selector can doa fine gradient
15:56:52S_a_i_n_t*do a
15:56:56B4gderyes, but that's very small and limited
15:57:10S_a_i_n_thow complex need a gradient be?
15:57:33B4gderI would guess it should do gradients to look as nice as they do in the bg images now
15:57:34kugelthe line selector gradient isn't fine enough for a backdrop
15:58:15kugelit already starts looking bad on lists where line selector height is two items on a large scren
15:58:44S_a_i_n_tHey...just trying to come up with an idea to not ship a target dependant backdrop ;)
15:58:49S_a_i_n_tJust an idea...
15:59:40Zagora gradient wps tag is a reasonable idea, is it not?
15:59:49S_a_i_n_tI think so, yes.
16:01:53kugelif we have a runtime generated backdrop we wouldn't need a theme for each resolution, but it's still not enough for a one-theme-works-on-all, is it?
16:02:14B4gderit's not, no
16:02:53S_a_i_n_tno, there would need to be somehow conditional placement of skin elements also.
16:03:00S_a_i_n_twhich would be...difficult.
16:03:11Zagorshort of svg icons and percentage positioning, I don't see how we can ever reach that
16:03:31Zagorthe screen size range is huge
16:03:39kugelpercentage positioning should be doable
16:03:41S_a_i_n_tIt is.
16:04:06S_a_i_n_tSVG was discussed and pretty much ended up in the "it would be nice, but there's too many thigns wrong with it" basket.
16:04:07Zagorkugel: doable, sure. but will it look any good? I bet a lot of designers will cry.
16:04:16B4gderanother way of doing "a single theme" is to make one file support different resolutions
16:04:37B4gderie discard the "bad" ones on load
16:04:45kugelalternatively we could pick up the density-independent pixel concept of android
16:04:59S_a_i_n_tYou'd still need to write code for every possible resolution.
16:05:16kugelB4gder: I think JdGordon|'s patch does this but it makes the .apk huge
16:05:36Zagorkugel: that's still nine different sizes, isn't it?
16:05:40B4gderyeah, I can understand that
16:06:20S_a_i_n_tGah! there just doesn't seem to be any easy way to do it :/
16:06:42S_a_i_n_tEvery time I think of something, the thought gets so far and there's another roadblocking problem.
16:07:45Zagorin my opinion, it's better to do the easy half of it than to do nothing
16:08:10kugeldensity-independent pixel + generated backdrop + seperate cabbies for ldpi/mdpi/hdpi could possibly work
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16:09:21kugelthe market allows seperate apks for ldpi etc, right?
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16:09:51kugelbut even then, we still have the portrait vs landscape problem
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16:10:19Zagornot every app has to support both orientations
16:10:28Zagormost games don't, for instance
16:11:25kugelI'm happy with portrait, but the hw-keyboard people probably aren't
16:12:16ZagorI think it's "only" an issue when entering text
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16:12:42Zagorwe could support landscape in menus but only portrait in wps
16:12:48*Buschel sighs
16:12:53Zagoror, let the wps decide
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16:12:54foo|shit flips up/down in a manner and is not that bad.
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16:13:36Buschelmost of the trouble with m4a searching was cause by two wrong "<" which should have been ">"
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16:15:12Zagoreither way, I very much encourage implementing half-assed solutions first and fix them later. this is open source. we'll rewrite it when necessary.
16:16:03Zagor(defining "half-assed" as "not covering every aspect", not as "does not work")
16:16:04S_a_i_n_tCareful ;)
16:16:20S_a_i_n_tThere's those in the camp very much *against* such things.
16:16:36S_a_i_n_tAh, great save.
16:18:29CIA-7New commit by Buschel (r29175): Fix resume for m4a files. Solves FS #9306.
16:19:04kugelI don't see much of a point in a resolution independant build if themes (or the default theme) is still dependent
16:19:35S_a_i_n_tNor I.
16:19:39kugelI don't care much about other themes, if we could fix it for the default theme at least then great
16:19:58*foo|sh was thinking vector graphics could save the day here
16:20:12Zagorkugel: I agree, focusing on the default theme is step #1
16:20:31S_a_i_n_tOnly if we can change everything to display Vector gfx
16:20:41S_a_i_n_tif we're just resizing to bmp...then, pointless.
16:20:52*gevaerts votes for Display PostScript
16:21:10S_a_i_n_t(we'll lose transparency if we do that)
16:21:26S_a_i_n_t*not postscript, SVG-to-bmp
16:21:58Zagorvector graphics is all fine and dandy, but it requires a massive translation effort
16:22:36S_a_i_n_tyes, we've already hashed that one out as a "not gonna work without massive changes that probably won't happen" thing a while back.
16:22:49S_a_i_n_t"we" being "theme people" ;)
16:22:52kugelit would be sufficient to convert the svg at runtime (boot) to bmp for the detected screen, then use the bmp
16:23:18S_a_i_n_tkugel: as long as there's no transparency.
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16:23:34ZagorS_a_i_n_t: well, "to a bitmap format" then
16:23:39S_a_i_n_tthe resizing affects colouration, which would fuck transparency.
16:25:53*foo|sh thinks it even better to convert on first run only, if thats not what kugel just said, in that case I agree with kugel.
16:26:01S_a_i_n_tI also seem to remember someone saying that loading an SVG and doing the conversion would actually be a bit of a massive effort for some players.
16:26:42Zagorfoo|sh: it can be difficult to detect when a theme has been updated. not all targets have realtime clocks
16:26:46kugelS_a_i_n_t: we obviously would only do it on RaaA
16:26:51S_a_i_n_tfoo|sh: If possible, it would be nice to have a system that handled transparency, svg->bmp will not.
16:26:58kugeldaps don't have variable screen sizes
16:27:07gevaertsYou'd only have to do the convert-on-boot on targets that actually *have* multiple screen sizes
16:27:08S_a_i_n_tthis is ture ;)
16:27:49S_a_i_n_twhat would we be converting though? It only seems to me that it would make sense if we could do all graphics this way.
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16:28:01S_a_i_n_tI can't think of a way it would be possible to do icons this way.
16:28:01Zagorso we're talking two different theme formats now?
16:28:08S_a_i_n_tpretty much only backdrops will work,.
16:28:14ZagorS_a_i_n_t: why?
16:28:38Zagorbitmaps can handle transparency
16:28:57kugelZagor: yes and no; the new theme format would be converted to the old one on the first run
16:29:00Zagorjust not bmp
16:29:10S_a_i_n_tWe'd need to change the way we handle transparency in core then.
16:29:19S_a_i_n_tand not have it just be a "magic" colour.
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16:29:57enthdegreeIt would be cool to have menu animations, but that would probably be a bad idea
16:29:58Zagordo we currently have gif-style transparency? i.e one color is 100% transparent, the rest is opaque?
16:29:59S_a_i_n_tThe way we do transparency now, the resizing would ruin the colouration..and hence the transparency.
16:30:34gevaertsenthdegree: if done well, why not?
16:30:48S_a_i_n_tOh, mean like a "magic" colour?
16:30:55gevaertsWith "done well" implying "can be disabled easily" :)
16:31:07foo|shwe could use the svg only and convert it to a bitmap for other targets at compile time and only use the svg format for creating themes all the time.
16:31:16enthdegreemaybe like blueish yellow
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16:31:48Zagorfoo|sh: yes
16:32:25kugelbut an svg would only make the apk smaller. you still need the logic to convert proplerly according to the current screen
16:32:52Zagorkugel: isn't apk size the reason we need this at all?
16:33:16kugelit's one reason
16:33:20gevaertshm, we have generic conditionals now (the "if" tag). If we add tags for screen width, height and depth, you could do conditional positioning
16:33:30S_a_i_n_tWe need it because it'll be an ass to make a new cabbie every time a new device comes out.
16:33:36enthdegreehaha, that is true. IMHO The rockbox interface right now is kind of 'scary' to newcomers. Maybe like an icon-based layout or something
16:33:37gevaertsNot really easy to do, but for the default theme that may be doable
16:33:38ZagorS_a_i_n_t: that too
16:33:38kugelnot having to make a cabbie for each new resolution vendors come up with is another
16:34:03Zagorenthdegree: I think with big friendly icons, the menu interface is friendly enough
16:34:12S_a_i_n_tapk size is the least of our worries presently I think.
16:34:42S_a_i_n_tNot that it shouldn't be a consideration.
16:34:49ZagorS_a_i_n_t: I don't understand your point about colorization and transparency. when we render svg to the target bitmap, we'll do it correctly of course.
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16:35:19enthdegreeYeah, it's only so bad on the clip
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16:35:22pixelmakugel: if you want something nice looking you still have to adapt anew, unless there is already a screen with the same aspect ratio
16:35:26S_a_i_n_tThere's always some areas where the colouration is different than the original.
16:35:43S_a_i_n_tthis is more evident on large->small conversions though.
16:35:48*foo|sh thinks he needs to build what Zagor is running, because fool's icons are tiny
16:36:06Zagorfoo|sh: yes, the default android theme is rather hostile
16:36:08S_a_i_n_tWhen we looked at converting svg to bmp last time, we realised that would mess up our "magic" colour.
16:36:14kugelS_a_i_n_t: I'm not into vector graphics but IIUC they can scale so that this is not an issue
16:36:30Zagor*"default theme on android"
16:36:44*gevaerts votes to add a gradient tag and tags for lcd properties
16:36:47S_a_i_n_tkugel: I haven't seen an editor that can scale it without visible erros yet.
16:36:59S_a_i_n_tEvery time I have done so, I need to fix the image manually.
16:37:00ZagorS_a_i_n_t: I don't see how this is an inherent technical limitation, rather than a problem with the implementation
16:37:07S_a_i_n_tthough, I'm a bit of a perfectionist.
16:37:07B4gdersvg or vector icons are used all the time and transparency is not a problem
16:37:20B4gderwhy would converting it to bmp introduce it?
16:37:28gevaertsS_a_i_n_t: if you use a magic colour for transparency, make sure you don't anti-alias
16:37:36S_a_i_n_tthey don't do transparency like we do?
16:37:51kugelS_a_i_n_t: you also don't need the magic color in the svn, the converter can insert it
16:38:18enthdegreeWhat are the problems with the font AA patch right now?
16:38:40S_a_i_n_tpeople don't see the point?
16:38:58gevaertsenthdegree: kugel was going to look at the patch to see if it's good enough last time I asked him :)
16:38:59S_a_i_n_t(that's my impression, anyway)
16:39:13S_a_i_n_tI would like to see it in too.
16:39:14gevaertsImpact seems to be negligible
16:40:31Zagorgotta go
16:40:32 Part Zagor
16:41:03pixelmakugel: even when applying the "magic" colour later, the result could possiby be off. "While scaling the border pixels will become a bit transparent and their real final colour depends on the actual colour "behind" it
16:41:58S_a_i_n_tI'm glad pixelma showed up to word this better..."it fucks transparency" really didn't cut it.
16:43:27kugelgah, just add png to the core and be done :)
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16:43:38kugelthe magic color way of doing it is annoying anyway
16:44:02B4gderalpha blending!
16:44:51S_a_i_n_twhat the skin engine really needs...layers.
16:45:02S_a_i_n_tthat'd be awesome.
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16:47:25S_a_i_n_tkugel: what did you need to do to get the test_*.rock plugins compiling for RaaA?
16:47:36S_a_i_n_tDo you have a patch around?
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16:48:00*S_a_i_n_t noticed your codec comparisons on the wiki
16:48:01kugelinsert hacks into various places
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16:49:04S_a_i_n_talso, does the boost/cpu frequency in the RaaA debug return actual values?
16:49:14kugelon my git repo I think
16:50:46S_a_i_n_tsystem/debug/view buffering thread
16:51:53S_a_i_n_tboost is always 0.0% and cpu is 0.0Mhz no matter what I'm I guess it's not returning actual values.
16:52:04kugel0.0MHz is obviously not an actual value
16:52:11S_a_i_n_tor, it's very bloody efficient
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17:05:00S_a_i_n_tanyone know the status of FS #10693 Absolute Point in GEQ?
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17:23:37S_a_i_n_tcan someone enlighten me please as to how to properly do the ifdefs here?
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17:43:25NikolasZH I :-)
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17:46:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:26:36DisturbedFoodhello, how do i install snake on my sansa clip+ ?
18:27:03DisturbedFoodhello, how do i install snake on my sansa clip+ ?
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18:28:22TorneAll the rockbox plugins come with rockbox, you don't have to install them.
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18:28:52DisturbedFoodand how do i do that?
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18:29:13Tornehow do you do what?
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18:29:28DisturbedFoodinstall rockbox plugins
18:29:35Torneyou don't need to install them
18:29:39TorneThey are all included when you install rockbox
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18:30:24DisturbedFoodokay, found it, thanks
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19:26:23pamaurywow, I'l able to run custom code on my mio c510e \o/
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19:28:30LambdaCalculus37pamaury: Nice! :)
19:29:41LambdaCalculus37pamaury: Is that a Rockchip-based device?
19:30:15pamaurynope, it's a s3c2400 GPS device, that runs WinCE (urg)
19:30:48LambdaCalculus37pamaury: That's the same CPU that's in the Gigabeat F/X, isn't it?
19:30:55*LambdaCalculus37 checks and confirms
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19:42:52kugelpamaury: s3c? boring :P
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19:46:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:59:18kugeldionoea: how do you tell it didn't build all classes? javac compiles needed classes which our Makefile doesn't print
19:59:52kugelif a needs b, then javac builds both even if you just specified b
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20:00:20kugelhence the Makefile output is sometimes lacking. that's atl east how I understood it
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20:01:14BuschelLear: you saw the change in m4a seeking?
20:01:31Buschelthis code is quite messy...
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20:09:57LearBuschel: Yes, the file format is messy, so... But it broke at least something for a test file (time display, don't know the test track well enough to say if the position is right or not).
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20:16:09CIA-7New commit by bluebrother (r29176): mkmpioboot: restructure model / firmware file information. ...
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20:21:14CIA-7r29176 build result: All green
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20:23:56BuschelLear: which file?
20:24:38LearA 5 minute file I have... Don't remember where I got it from.
20:30:20BuschelLear: what does the failure look like? is it happening when seeking
20:30:41LearNo, just resume (only use of raw_seek).
20:31:01*Buschel tests some other tracks he has
20:32:34Learchunk_sample gets the wrong (much too high) value, I think that's the main problem.
20:34:59BuschelI have some major reworked code here, let's see how this handles your file
20:35:17Buschel(even though /me just spots a bug)
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20:45:38wodzThe user added link to the rk27xx SDK which leaked into internet on our wiki. Should we keep this or remove?
20:46:16wodzthe SDK was not released public AFAIK
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20:51:31saratogadoes it actually contain useful information or just a bunch of windows files we don't need?
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20:53:22wodzit contains part of the sources as far as I can tell
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21:07:13saratogawell if theres nothing useful in it i would just delete it regardless
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21:07:23dionoeakugel: it only listed a subset in the make output
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21:09:21dionoeaah ok. just saw your last sentence
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21:14:49kugeldionoea: I guess make cannot figure out that it doesn't need to build them since javac already did
21:15:54CIA-7New commit by bluebrother (r29177): mkamsboot: restructure model / firmware file information. ...
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21:20:21CIA-7r29177 build result: All green
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21:46:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:46:46BuschelLear: seems like I got it :)
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21:47:42LearGot a patch?
21:48:44Buschelin a second
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21:50:26Buschelthe fix can be done with minor changes to svn. my patch is a rework of the seeking code
21:52:23Buschelworks for all of my files here (about 8)
21:52:28Buschel8 )
21:52:42LearHm, last chunk still contains valid data, doesn't it?
21:53:01sideralsaratoga, bertrik: Sansa ClipV2 background noise debugging −− FS #11915
21:53:46BuschelLear: yes. of what line are you talking about?
21:54:07LearLine 107 in the patch.
21:54:56Buschelthe index is correct N elements, last element is N-1
21:55:41LearYes, but if file_loc is within the last chunk, won't the code abort?
21:55:49Buschelah, wait. got you
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22:16:15BuschelLear: slight rework (removed the mentioned line and refactored a bit) ->
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22:19:47S_a_i_n_tHmmm....if I run "make apk" twice, I get different results with the JAVAC stuff.
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22:20:18LearBuschel: Failed with a search to 5-6 seconds...
22:20:47LearRather, anywhere, in another file...
22:20:51S_a_i_n_tIt seems I need to run "make apk" twice from a clean build dir (new or make clean/veryclean), on the second time all java elements are generated successfully
22:23:15BuschelLear: works for all my files here. seeking within the first seconds and to the last seconds as well as somewhere within the file
22:23:31kugelS_a_i_n_t: see today's logs
22:23:56S_a_i_n_tkugel: any particular bit? ;)
22:24:03kugelmy talk with dionoea
22:24:11S_a_i_n_tOr any word to look out for in particular?
22:24:17S_a_i_n_tah, ok.
22:24:18LearThe file that fails only has one sample_to_chunk. Don't know if that's the problem though.
22:27:10Buschelthe code assumes to have 2 or more −− svn, too
22:27:24LearYes, and only 21 in num_samples...
22:27:55*Buschel slap m4a format
22:29:02LearSVN can handle one, as it has one step outside the loop.
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22:32:20EvanCarrollI think I just broke my sansa e200v2
22:32:42EvanCarrollI was charging it while playing music then it went blank, but it was still on.
22:32:57EvanCarrolli turned it off, and was able to get it back on by plugging in the sansa recharging cable
22:33:02EvanCarrollbut now the right channel doesn't work
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22:34:28S_a_i_n_tkugel: assuming you mean it's not terribly descriptive.
22:34:58kugelit starts here:
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22:37:11cinvidapsst, quick ? if anyones got a sec... ive got a rockbox ipod 5th generation 30 gb video (no idea which sector size 512 or 2048)... that i did on my windows machine which i no longer have... and now im on a macbook pro and osx
22:37:28cinvidai plugin the ipod, running rockbox... and i see the usb icon pop on so its charging...
22:37:34cinvidabut i cant farking mount the thing and load it up anymore!
22:37:42bluebrothercinvida: disable HID support
22:37:50bluebrotherin Rockbox that is
22:37:51cinvidaim running ntfs apps but i dont think i can see fat partitions
22:37:57cinvidadisable it not enable it...
22:37:59cinvidafark yeah!
22:38:10bluebrotherOSX can handle FAT itself
22:38:44TarvisHey, I got a question about the iPod Radio Remote for an ipod video
22:38:52TarvisIn rockbox, is it possible to listen to music through it as well?
22:38:55cinvidaokie trying now, just set setting and rebooted roxkbox
22:38:59TarvisRadio works but not regular music
22:39:04TarvisUsing 3.7.1
22:39:24cinvidaokie still dont see it under devices... hmmph
22:39:27cinvidashould i reboot the mac?
22:39:41bluebrothercinvida: no need to do that
22:39:56bluebrothercinvida: just disable USB HID support in Rockbox. Then connect the Ipod again.
22:39:57cinvidaunder disc utility it still isnt finding it
22:40:02cinvidaive done so still no go
22:40:19bluebrotherwhat version of Rockbox are you using?
22:41:00 Quit froggyman (Quit: Ex-Chat)
22:41:37bluebrotherthat's horribly outdated.
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22:42:01bluebrotheryou should really updated. Can't remember exactly but I wouldn't be surprised if there have been bugs regarding USB fixed sicne
22:42:24cinvidaanyway to restore ipod software from the hardware without plugging it in ?
22:42:29bluebrotherput the Ipod in disc mode (either boot the Apple firmware or use Emergency Disk Mode), then update
22:42:45bluebrotherno need to restore anything ... it's all still there
22:44:45cinvidahow do i put it in disk mode
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22:45:25bluebrotherreset the Ipod by holding Menu + Select until it reboots. Then hold Select + Play until the Ipod changes into disk mode
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22:45:45BuschelLear: if you do not find any further bugs I'll submit
22:45:56bluebrotherif you're done reset the Ipod again
22:46:09bluebrother(disk mode won't quit when you disconnect the Ipod)
22:48:00LearBuschel: That should be an improvement, but I'll test more later (probably not today).
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22:48:13pamaurykugel: I partly agree, the s3c part is not that much interesting, but the fact that it's wince make everything more complicated :) And it's a GPS receiver (that's better for a GPS device ;)) which looks interesting
22:48:57BuschelLear: ok, as this patch solves several issues I will submit. just let me know if you find any further bugs to fix
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22:49:30Tarvisanyway, I want to know because one of the pins on the logic board where the headphone jack plugs in is broken
22:49:39TarvisSO there's no sound except through the radio remote
22:52:47cinvidaokay i tried being in and out fo disc mode in version 3.6 and plugging it into a mac and a windows machine... neither are mounting it... for sure power is coming through the usb cable... but i hear a noise in the cable when i shake it at the end where it connects to the ipod...
22:52:56cinvidacould it just not be transferring data... just power...
22:53:00cinvidacause the power bar keeps going up...
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22:53:08bluebrothercinvida: you could of course also have a bad cable
22:53:28cinvidathats my theory heh
22:54:49cinvidaanyhoo is there a way to revert to ipod software...
22:54:50cinvidafrom the device
22:54:54CIA-7New commit by Buschel (r29178): Rework m4a seek/resume code. Seek/resume does now also work properly with files having sample_to_chunk of 1 or 2.
22:54:55cinvidawithout having to plug it back in ?
22:55:10bluebrothercinvida: Rockbox can dual boot ...
22:55:25bluebrotherif that's what you're looking after
22:55:44cinvidafark yeah
22:55:46cinvidathat'd be sweet
22:55:56*bluebrother points to the manual
22:55:59 Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.)
22:56:04bluebrotherenable hold immediately after power on
22:56:07cinvidabut id just like to go through my ipod running rockbox, and have it revert back to the ipod software somehow...
22:56:23cinvidaenable hold imediately after power on, how do i do that?
22:56:25*bluebrother doesn't understand that
22:56:40bluebrotherwell, shut it down. Then start it again. Enable hold.
22:57:46S_a_i_n_tyou can also dualboot by holding menu to start the iPod.
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22:58:44 Join froggyman [0] (~seth@unaffiliated/froggyman)
22:59:23CIA-7r29178 build result: All green
23:00:06S_a_i_n_tIt's hard to say this without it sounding like "RTFM!", but...perhaps you should gave the manual a read?
23:00:12cinvidahmm even in ipod mode
23:00:15cinvidait isnt being recognized...
23:00:28cinvidasoooo, me thinks i got a bad ipod/usb cable
23:00:46S_a_i_n_tdid the cable ever work?
23:00:53bluebrotherif you're connecting to the USB hub in the keyboard: plug it into the Mac directly
23:00:55 Join gbl08ma [0] (
23:01:00S_a_i_n_tsome are just charge only cables
23:01:22cinvidamacbook pro, directly plugged in. its an aftermarket cable... it was only used for charging... so dunnno
23:02:36S_a_i_n_tThere's a good chance the cable doesn't actually have data lines.
23:02:42 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me))
23:02:53S_a_i_n_tA lot of cheap iPod cables are like this.
23:04:54 Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes)
23:06:25gbl08maif you don't mind loosing that cable, as it seems to only charge, you can always open the connector of the iPod side and see if the data contacts are wired to the cable...
23:07:23JdGordon|kugel: Bagder: my/mceuelenernes(?) patch for lcd size independance only makes the apk huge because i put all the fonts in, very little code is added to do it...
23:07:37TarvisWell, I'd just shell out the 5 bucks or so for a proper cable
23:07:57TarvisIf there are no data pins (most likely) there isn't much you can do
23:08:46 Quit komputes (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:09:22gbl08maif it has all the pins but doesn't have them wired, you can always make a custom line-in for your ipod; this is specially useful if it supports recording through line in, like Nano 1st gen does
23:10:44 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@unaffiliated/sideral)
23:14:21TarvisSo can rockbox play audio through the radio remote or not?
23:14:26TarvisSeems to be fm radio only
23:16:00 Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection)
23:17:25 Quit gbl08ma (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
23:19:02 Join bzed_ [0] (
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23:20:12 Quit Horscht (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:20:38cinvidak got the proper cable
23:20:44cinvidahow do i reboot from ipod into rockbox?
23:20:49cinvidasorry total newb here
23:21:14 Quit DerPapst (Read error: No route to host)
23:21:14 Quit bzed (Remote host closed the connection)
23:21:55 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
23:23:20 Quit Lear (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 4.0b11pre/20110131064745])
23:23:24 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:24:11 Join markun [0] (~markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
23:24:46 Quit GeekShad0w (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
23:24:59cinvidaokY I SEE THE IPOD IN ITUNES... and it mounts then it unmounts....
23:25:10cinvidashould i erase it like i tunes asks?
23:25:19cinvidaor how do i reflash it with the new version... if it isnt auto detecting it
23:26:45gevaertscinvida: you're on a mac now? If so, don't let itunes erase it or rockbox won't work with it any more until you've made it a "winpod" again
23:26:56cinvidahmm /me reads the fucking manual heh
23:27:07cinvidaah whew thanks
23:27:11cinvidaim on macbook pro
23:28:48cinvidak reinstalling everything onto ipod
23:28:50cinvidawith new version
23:33:42cinvidanow how do i move music onto rockbox?
23:33:51cinvidaand how do i wipe the old install of the ipod so i can redo it ?
23:38:39bluebrothercinvida: you don't need to wipe any old install
23:38:56bluebrotherand for syncing music ... use Finder. Or Itunes if you like
23:39:03bluebrotheror anything else. It doesn't matter
23:39:08cinvidanope had to get a new one
23:39:19cinvidawhoops miss text
23:39:25cinvidaah cool
23:39:29bluebrotherupdating Rockbox does *not* require deleting your old installation
23:39:33cinvidaokay, so im inipod side again
23:39:41cinvidabut this ipod isnt synced with my laptop
23:39:44cinvidaso how can i fix that ?
23:40:01bluebrotherwhat on earth do you want to achieve?
23:40:20cinvidamy music on the ipod/rockbox... with it registered to my new itunes
23:40:34cinvidaas i just put in a ssd, and am redoing everything from scratch
23:40:36bluebrotherRockbox does not know anything about itunes
23:41:15bluebrotheryou can use Itunes to sync music to the PC (but then you need to boot into the Apple firmware for syncing, as Itunes doesn't recognize Rockbox as an Ipod)
23:41:30bluebrotheror does it and I have disabled this stuff? Hmm.
23:41:45bluebrotheractually not completely sure about that. I usually don't use Itunes
23:41:54cinvidasooo if im in ipod mode, and im in itunes, and this version is registered to my old mac... so i cant add my library... then wtf do i do to add music to my ipod... or do i just go into rockbox mode and add music and itll appear on the ipod side too
23:42:03bluebrotherIf you organize your music yourself just copy it to the player using Finder.
23:42:22bluebrotheruse F i n d e r.
23:42:35 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
23:42:57cinvidai got calendars, contacts, notes, playlists, but no music folder in finder...
23:43:08bluebrotherthere is no music folder
23:43:11Tarviswell where do you keep all your music?
23:43:15bluebrotherif you want one create it
23:43:16Tarvisjust copy that
23:43:32bluebrotheror call it "stuff", or "cds" or whatever you like
23:43:34cinvidaah hah
23:43:39cinvidathanks for the newb slap... =) got it
23:43:41bluebrotherRockbox does *not* care a bit about names
23:44:47bluebrotherthose folders "Notes", "Contacts" and so on are created by the Apple firmware. Music is kept (in filename-scrambled format) below the hidden folder iTunes_Control
23:45:10bluebrotherthough I assume if you're using Rockbox you don't want to use a hidden folder for putting your music on the player.
23:45:16 Quit efyx (Quit: Quitte)
23:45:37cinvidais there someway to find all the music on this drive and remove it...
23:45:43cinvidafrom the mac... how do i find hidden folders?
23:45:44cinvidanew to mac heh
23:45:56*bluebrother uses Terminal for that
23:46:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:47:37bluebrotherItunes keeps its music in a folder Music/iTunes
23:48:09 Join JdGordon1 [0] (
23:50:20 Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat)
23:54:07cinvidahmmph cant find that folder
23:54:13cinvidaits hidden... ???
23:54:22 Join timccc [0] (~timccc@
23:54:33cinvidawish i could wipe the previous owner off this ipod, sync it to my itunes and transfer music to it that way...
23:58:27TarvisNot with rockbox
23:58:46TarvisCan't ou just delete all the folders in the ipod?

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