#rockbox 2011-02-04

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#rockbox log for 2011-02-04

00:00:50	bertrik	How does this target store its files? in raw NAND? or in some other kind of flash memory?
00:00:57	wodz	don't know - the nice thing is that there are public developer manuals for this DSP core
00:01:16	bertrik	The raw NAND interface on the meizus and the Samsung yp-s3 basically ended my research on these targets
00:01:32	wodz	bertrik: It has sd, so I will start with this
00:01:33	bertrik	wodz, cool
00:01:57	wodz	what do you mean by raw NAND interface?
00:03:17	bertrik	When you have to send commands to the NAND chip to erase big blocks, and do bookkeeping for wear levelling and bad sectors, error correction
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00:04:14	wodz	well, I don't know - nand controller is not covered in datasheet I found in internet for rk27xx
00:04:26	bertrik	all of the sandisk players I know, have some convenient controller to the NAND, that basically makes it appear as an SD card
00:05:06	wodz	FTL is in hardware?
00:05:12	bertrik	yes
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00:05:34	wodz	I think that they use software FTL
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01:09:05	JdGordon1	[Saint]: the fade code is in wps.c.. i think do_fade() or just fade()
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01:10:50	[Saint]	kugel: (logs) I think it would be quite cool if RaaA had a "Pause on Headphone Unplug" setting, it is a feature that I use often with my DAPs and I keep forgetting that RaaA doesn't have this feature and accidentally blasting myself with the internal speaker.
01:11:09	[Saint]	JdGordon1: Thankyou kindly Sir.
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01:19:51	*	flyback heads out to pickup meds, bbl
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02:05:49	pixelma	[Saint]: could you check a current apk's filesize for me? The one I got seems to be quite small and doesn't install
02:06:35	pixelma	for a 240x320 version
02:09:28	pixelma	hmm, weird. Seems to work now, nevermind
02:09:37	[Saint]	2.98MB
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02:47:13	*	[Saint] wonders why the 240x320 and 320x240 cabbieV2 ports in SVN have so many graphics in common, yet do not share them as they should but instead duplicate them.
02:47:37	[Saint]	I also wonder why every cabbie port seems to be a slightly different shade of yellow.
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03:16:16	*	foolsh found the android avd manager in eclipse and is well pleased even though he abhors an IDE. FS #11903 should be done in no time now
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05:42:18	flyback	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8WQM-KVFwE <−−−− OOOO SNAP
05:44:29	[Saint]	Ummmm....topic?
05:45:41	flyback	sorry forgot I was still in this channel
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06:46:57	CIA-7	New commit by jethead71 (r29205): AMSv2 USB: Remove usb_enable call that occurs after core is already initialized and the usb_disable call while in ISR. Also, no point in panicing over ...
06:51:41	CIA-7	r29205 build result: All green
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07:19:03	[Saint]	wow.....why is RaaA compile so much faster now?
07:19:19	[Saint]	or...is my environment broken somehow?
07:20:11	[Saint]	the JAVAC stuff looks different, and it only took a couple of seconds to do, previously it took about a minute, what gives?
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07:23:54	jhMikeS	gevaerts: did something didn't he
07:24:04	jhMikeS	erm, just gevaerts
07:26:35	[Saint]	Aha...I see the commit now.
07:26:45	[Saint]	quite a big speed-up.
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07:50:54	[Saint]	JdGordon\|: Will a non touch target care about touch tags? specifically regarding the theme site? I would like to upload my touchscreen cabbie-clone.
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08:01:36	JdGordon\|	[Saint]: they sholdnt
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08:13:38	[Saint]	JdGordon\|: Thanks
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08:38:23	*	Strife89 wonders what exactly r29205 means in "user language"
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10:55:41	*	foolsh has FS #11903 pinned to the ground waiting for kugel to perform a java vodo exorcism spell upon it. next time guy tell me I picked the ugly smelly one (O.O) gotta go to sleep now its been way too long in front of this thing.
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11:30:04	sideral	pamaury: Re FS #11664 (AMSv2 USB): The bug with r29169 that I saw may not be a USB bug at all, just an SD driver bug introduced in this commit
11:31:16	pamaury	possible, but usb and sd shouldn't really interfere, except for the dma part perhaps
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11:33:48	sideral	well, USB slave mode uses the internal SD, and the host may exercise the SD such that the bug manifests only when the host is connected
11:35:18	sideral	there doesn't have to be any DMA interference
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12:01:09	gevaerts	If you get a nice SCSI-level error message (the sense thing), I'd say this is not a USB issue
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13:59:37	sideral	I think gevaerts is right; it's just that the bug can only manifest when USB is enabled. pamaury, jhMikeS: Do you want me to split the issue out to a separate Flyspray task?
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16:00:49	*	Buschel slaps the m4a seek tables
16:00:57	*	Buschel slap the aac codec
16:01:06	Buschel	it's all a mess!
16:01:08	Buschel	:/
16:01:44	Buschel	I tried to reduce the table size and had some good progress −− at least I thought
16:02:07	Buschel	but there is always another special file which breaks it :(
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16:55:27	foolsh	JdGordon: I need you to look at FS #11903 the last two links offer major info about the missing button releases on the trackpad/ball androids. I don't java so well but I think somehow the viewgroup is incorrect.
16:57:09	*	Buschel placed his interim work on m4a seek-buffer reduction in FS #8923
16:57:16		Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
16:58:28	foolsh	or maybe we use Callbacks and not Event Listeners or maybe it's the other way around.
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17:02:03	foolsh	JdGordon: the last patch there is at least a head start. By the way where were you the whole time I was down there digging up that nasty stuff? hmm?
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17:05:47	salty-horse	I'd like to comment here that I confirm this is no longer an issue, but the bug is closed: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9453
17:06:45	Torne	then you don't need to comment
17:08:58	salty-horse	I think it's more of a "can't". I tested it for myself because the bug closer has a different device, and I wonder if others will also think that
17:09:55	Torne	Well, you can't either, no. but there's not really any need, it's already closed. the only person likely to ask to reopen it would be you, and you don't have a problem.
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17:12:05	salty-horse	Torne, okidey :)
17:13:19	Torne	it's intentional that people can't comment on closed bugs, anyway; if it was allowed then important comments might be lost since people rarely look at closed ones, and if it automatically reopened the bug when you did then that gets annoying in a hurry when some users maybe add non-helpful comments to closed bugs
17:15:22	salty-horse	I think it's worthwhile to keep allowing comments after the bug is closed. it doesn't mean the bug should be automatically reopened
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17:16:59	Torne	well, i disagree :)
17:17:18	Torne	if you allow that then eitehr comments are useful (but perhaps nobody reads them ever because the only people watching the bug aren't around any more)
17:17:28	Torne	or the comments aren'ty useful (in which case everyone watching the bug gets spammed)
17:17:53	Torne	neither of those outcomes are very satisfactory
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17:21:21	Quazgaa	so i installed the latest rockbox build on my x5l yesterday before i went into town
17:21:32	Quazgaa	and it turns out its all broken
17:21:39	Quazgaa	how is that even possible
17:21:48	Quazgaa	shit has always worked
17:21:50	Torne	er, well, this does occasionally happen :)
17:22:05	Torne	the current build is just whatever has been committed..
17:22:07	Torne	what version is it?
17:22:15	Torne	and how did you install it? (manually or with rockbox utility?)
17:22:27	Torne	and what specifically is wrong?
17:22:41	Quazgaa	i think it was a 2/2 build
17:22:47	evilnick_B	Could it be that the zip wasn't extracted properly?
17:22:59	Quazgaa	i mount my dap
17:23:09	Quazgaa	and unzip the zip file which is just .rockbox/
17:23:13	Quazgaa	so i didnt do anything wrong
17:23:32	Quazgaa	you cant change tracks
17:23:36	Quazgaa	fast forward rewind pause
17:23:45	Torne	what build is it exactly?
17:23:50	Quazgaa	the only way i could even figure out to change tracks
17:23:56	salty-horse	Torne, not convinced, but ok :P
17:23:58	Quazgaa	was to screw around with the playlist
17:24:07	Torne	is that all that's wrong?
17:24:23	Torne	because it sounds like you've accidentally turned the allow track skip setting off
17:24:23	Quazgaa	i guess
17:24:35	Quazgaa	i found that setting
17:24:39	Torne	which produces exactly that effect
17:24:51	Torne	or possibly the party mode setting?
17:24:59	Quazgaa	i dunno
17:25:05	Quazgaa	its been quite a while since i updated rockbox
17:25:16	Quazgaa	i figured maybe it was a discrepancy in the config or something
17:25:42	*	evilnick_B guesses at party mode too
17:25:58	Torne	well, it's possible a setting has been renamed or something
17:26:00	Torne	but I don't think so.
17:26:04	Torne	check if party mode is enabled.
17:26:15	Quazgaa	ok
17:27:11	Torne	if nothing else is wrong then it's almost certainly a bad setting, rather than a bad build
17:27:30	Quazgaa	i figured maybe rockbox converted to some playlist-only type approach
17:27:42	Quazgaa	which makes me think, well wtf is the point of even running rockbox any more then
17:27:44	Quazgaa	:p
17:27:52	Torne	that seems like a really stupid assumption
17:28:11	Torne	:)
17:28:13	Quazgaa	:\|
17:28:17	Quazgaa	its the only way i could change tracks
17:28:30	Torne	yes, but if you can't pause that's obviously not intentional
17:28:30	Quazgaa	and its how every commercial firmware is set up
17:28:33	Quazgaa	so its not that stupid
17:28:37	Torne	or at least obviously not intentional by default
17:28:50	Torne	er, i've never seen an mp3 player firmware that doesn't let you pause/skip tracks
17:29:16	Torne	party mode is an intentional feature, of course, but it's off by default
17:30:35	Quazgaa	oh
17:30:38	Quazgaa	it was party mode
17:30:43	Torne	right.
17:30:44	Quazgaa	:O
17:30:48	Quazgaa	wtf is that
17:30:52	Quazgaa	and why is it enabled by default
17:30:53	Quazgaa	:P
17:30:57	Torne	it's not enabled by default.
17:31:06	Torne	and I don't think the setting name has ever changed
17:31:09	Torne	so you must've turned it on ;)
17:31:13	Quazgaa	nah
17:31:14	Torne	it's for, well, parties.
17:31:21	Quazgaa	hmm
17:31:28	Torne	you can add new tracks to the playlist, byut not pause/skip because that disrupts the music
17:31:31	Quazgaa	last time i used my dap was like 6 months ago
17:31:47	Quazgaa	maybe it inadvertently got turned on by the update
17:31:48	Quazgaa	?
17:31:55	Torne	Updates don't touch your settings
17:31:59	Torne	the config file is not in the zip
17:32:11	Torne	the only way settings can change during an update is if the setting has been renamed, or the default changed, int he code.
17:32:23	Quazgaa	hrm
17:32:33	Torne	so I'm pretty sure you did it by accident
17:32:39	Torne	maybe 6 months ago :)
17:32:56	Torne	the party mdoe setting hasn't been touched since 2007
17:33:12	Quazgaa	heh
17:33:14	Quazgaa	ok
17:33:24	Quazgaa	well i did get tanked with my friend
17:33:26	Quazgaa	6 months ago
17:33:30	Torne	we try our best to never change users' settings without a good reason
17:33:37	Quazgaa	i bet he was screwing shit up
17:33:48	Torne	occasionally it's unavoidable when settings change frmo being on/off to multiple-choice, or similar
17:33:59	Torne	but almost always everything is untouched by updates.
17:34:06	Quazgaa	yeah
17:34:09	Quazgaa	thats what i would expect
17:34:16	Quazgaa	so i was all, WTF
17:34:17	Quazgaa	;p
17:34:28	Torne	anywya, glad it's sorted :)
17:35:19	Quazgaa	:)
17:35:21	Quazgaa	thanks
17:37:30	salty-horse	can anyone explain what "usb-enabled bootloader" means? http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=29062
17:37:46	Torne	it means the bootloader has USB disk mode implemented in it
17:37:55	Torne	so you can get USB access even if the rockbox binary is broken/missing
17:38:27	Torne	some players have our USB disk mode compiled into them, some don't; that was adding it to soem more models
17:38:54	salty-horse	should I upgrade my bootloader for this? (Using sansa e200 for which this is a "new" feature)
17:39:24	Torne	There probably hasn't been a new bootloader binary released.
17:39:33	Torne	so, unless you're going to compile it from source there's probably no upgrade to be had
17:39:54	Torne	We don't release bootloaders automatically the way the actual build is updated, someone actually has to do it and push them out
17:39:58	salty-horse	oh, I can compile easily, I'm just wondering if it's worth it
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17:40:24	Torne	well, does the e200 have a way to get access to the disk if rockbox is screwed? e.g. by booting the OF?
17:40:30	Torne	if so then I'd say it's not worth it ;)
17:42:00	salty-horse	it does. ok :)
17:43:00	*	Quazgaa listens to rancid on his dap
17:43:05	Quazgaa	this cd is so great
17:44:30	Torne	salty-horse: it's primarily relevant for players where there's no other way to recover, but it was generally already enabled on those. It got enabled on more models mostly because we can, i think, rather than because it's needed
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19:32:58	kugel	thomasjfox: hey
19:33:13	thomasjfox	hey kugel
19:33:31	thomasjfox	I'm leaving for food now, will be back in 30 min
19:34:01	thomasjfox	will you be there later on?
19:34:15	kugel	sure
19:34:19	thomasjfox	:)
19:36:16	alemaxx	hi ppl, do you know the rockboxer nicknamed wodz will join us here this evening?
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20:24:23	thomasjfox	hey kugel. I should go for food more often ;)
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20:29:30	AlexP	thomasjfox: congrats :)
20:30:12	thomasjfox	thanks. I feel honored.
20:30:25	AlexP	That seems excessive :)
20:30:42	AlexP	I mean, look at some of the other people let in :)
20:30:47	thomasjfox	:o)
20:30:59	AlexP	(I inlcude myself in that insult) :)
20:31:14	thomasjfox	Finally I understand what those "fix red" commit messages are
20:31:30	AlexP	We fight communism whenever we can
20:31:47	thomasjfox	There was also fix yellow...
20:31:57	AlexP	liver disease
20:32:26	thomasjfox	anyway, I need to write zagor, my new wiki account is still lost somewhere
20:32:50	AlexP	the wiki has been screwy with registrations for a while
20:33:09	thomasjfox	Now I need to take a close look at "git svn" and kugel is no more to blame if something goes wrong
20:33:20	AlexP	git svn works well I find
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20:33:37	AlexP	just do git stuff as normal, then git svn dcommit to commit
20:33:48		Quit webguest97 (Client Quit)
20:33:56	thomasjfox	Just need to familiarize myself with the syntax of dcommit and others
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20:36:15	thomasjfox	AlexP: Regarding the wiki, it completly lost my registration email
20:36:36	bluebrother	does the wiki require registration mails these days?
20:36:48	AlexP	confirmation ones, yeah
20:36:54	AlexP	and it isn't sending them
20:37:09	AlexP	Or not always
20:37:24	AlexP	So we've had quite a lot of people unable to register
20:37:51		Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
20:38:18	bluebrother	hmm. Does requiring these confirmation mails have a positive effect (assuming it does work)? I can't remember getting one when I registered ... but that's years ago already :)
20:38:20	pixelma	kugel: is there a way to change the included default cabiev2 on android? I thought that on other targets it's just the dafault selection with all needed files being in .rockbox/wps (in contrast to the failsafe one)
20:38:36	pixelma	hmm, maybe a case of needing to root the phone :/
20:40:03	pixelma	so, I guess I have to work on a port of my own theme, thought I could get away with some slight modifications as a start
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20:40:50	pixelma	or copy the version of cabbiev2 to the card and chose that
20:41:43	alemaxx	I have a question: does rockbox have a good flash filesystem with wearl-evelling etc.?
20:41:48	AlexP	no
20:42:22	alemaxx	okay, thanks for the answer
20:42:29	kugel	thomasjfox: o/
20:43:01	kugel	pixelma: you can do it without root with a trick, but there's no direct way to access them
20:43:06	kugel	(yet)
20:43:36	kugel	you can set the start folder setting to /data/data/org.rockbox, then you can browse rockbox' folder on the internal storage (and copy the themes)
20:43:49	thomasjfox	kugel: Just sent an email to zagor
20:45:12	pixelma	kugel: ok, thanks. I'd like to get rid of the backdrop in the WPS too which means editing the .wps though
20:46:01	thomasjfox	kugel: What should we do about the maemo patch? I don't know how long the account creation normally takes
20:46:44	pixelma	thomasjfox: Zagor is at fosdem this weekend, so it may take a while
20:48:27	thomasjfox	pixelma: ok, I guessed something like this. After all, it's the weekend.
20:48:51	kugel	thomasjfox: I suggest patience until zagor does his job :)
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20:49:59	thomasjfox	Well, I hope my first commit won't be part of controversy ;)
20:50:50	AlexP	Traditionally it is adding yourself to COMMITTERS
20:50:55	AlexP	So hopefully not :)
20:50:58	kugel	I'm certain the very first commit will be entirely non-controversial :)
20:51:20	thomasjfox	Sounds like a plan!
20:51:51	pixelma	well, I guess preparing commit access would take the same while
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20:52:38	pixelma	as I believe it needs setting up the login by Bagder who is at fosdem too
20:54:25	linuxstb	Is there anywhere with info on the maemo port apart from FS #11868?
20:54:32	*	linuxstb just got an n900
20:55:28	*	pixelma points to thomasjfox... good timing linuxstb ;)
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20:59:33	linuxstb	pixelma: You were saying? ;)
21:00
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21:03:26	thomasjfox	pixelma: The moment you pointed at me, X11 froze again :o)
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21:03:53	thomasjfox	linuxstb: The maemo specific information is summarized here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Rockbox
21:06:26	thomasjfox	kugel: Any plans to push the ucontext branch to svn?
21:06:46	kugel	Plans yea
21:07:28	kugel	hopefully on this weekend
21:07:35	thomasjfox	nice one
21:08:15	thomasjfox	IIRC SDL_THREADS mode needs fixing
21:10:18	kugel	what's broken?
21:11:32	thomasjfox	I think it didn't compile the last time I tried
21:11:40	thomasjfox	I'll fire up the devel vm
21:12:02	thomasjfox	could also be related to the maemo stuff in there
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21:18:27	alemaxx	hey wodz!!!
21:18:39	wodz	hello :-)
21:18:54	alemaxx	Ive been waiting for you :-)
21:19:03	wodz	alemaxx: thank you.
21:19:28	alemaxx	wodz: thank you for the invitation!
21:19:40	wodz	alemaxx: I would like to ask you about bootrom - the dump from your site doesn't make much sense to me.
21:19:50	alemaxx	why?
21:20:02	thomasjfox	kugel: firmware/target/hosted/sdl/kernel-sdl.c:165: error: 'do_exit' undeclared (first use in this function)
21:20:26	alemaxx	wodz, Ill have a look
21:20:54	wodz	1) it is 32kB while I believe rk27xx has 8kB bootrom 2) standard arm code starts from vectors
21:21:20		Quit thomasjfox (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:23:12	alemaxx	its mirrored
21:23:33		Quit sasquatch (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:24:12		Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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21:25:39	alemaxx	but you may be right that this isnt the rom but the bootloader
21:26:02	wodz	alemaxx: how did you get this?
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21:26:32	alemaxx	I dumped it via serial, its at offset 0x180ec000
21:28:36	wodz	alemaxx: that is not bootrom than but nor bootloader and moreover this is raw dump so it should be filtered by FTL
21:28:46	alemaxx	I have a commented idb on some other harddrive, I could fetch it if you really need it
21:29:08	alemaxx	or nand bootloader, yes
21:29:27	alemaxx	which is normally encoded/ the bootrom expects it to be encoded
21:30:12	alemaxx	and these 0x55 0xaa at the beginning are some magic values checked by the rom
21:30:12	wodz	hmm I didn't tried to pass it through this stupid xoring
21:30:56	alemaxx	the rk27xxboot.rom.bz2 is actually already decoded and its from nand
21:32:51	wodz	alemaxx: do you have serial mod attached to your DAP?
21:33:02	alemaxx	anyway, the rk27load tool already exploits the bootrom functionality and allows the uploading of code via usb
21:33:08	alemaxx	wodz, yes
21:33:34	alemaxx	but as I mentioned (I think) currently both devices I own are not working
21:33:47	wodz	alemaxx: It would be great to dump bootrom itself actually.
21:33:57	alemaxx	I have
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21:34:28	alemaxx	just hooked up the external disk on which it should be
21:34:53		Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:35:08	wodz	I would love to see what bootrom checks to decide if it should activate DFU or not
21:35:38	alemaxx	so DFU - device firmware update?
21:37:07	wodz	well, you can pass scsi command in firmware layer which triggers direct jump to bootrom with caches turned off. But my device usually comes back to msc which means that bootrom decides that it should not enter DFU mode
21:37:36	alemaxx	okay
21:38:28	wodz	when I erased by accident ROCKUSER partition table the device entered DFU just fine
21:39:06	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Nice work - I'm playing with it now. Is it just me, or is the audio quality quite poor on the n900?
21:39:09		Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114)
21:39:37	wodz	I think SETUP.RKW has something to do with this
21:39:47	thomasjfox	linuxstb: You mean the built in speakers? It depends on the volume level
21:40:07	alemaxx	wodz, alemaxx.al.funpic.de/rk27/bootrom.tar.bz2">http://alemaxx.al.funpic.de/rk27/bootrom.tar.bz2
21:40:26	thomasjfox	At a certain level, "speaker" protection code kicks in and those heavy filtering (and increases the pulseaudio CPU usage by 5-7 percent)
21:40:48		Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection)
21:40:50	linuxstb	thomasjfox: No, with earphones.
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21:41:42	alemaxx	wodz, bad taring though, sorry
21:42:03	wodz	alemaxx: is mirrored as well?
21:42:16	wodz	I mean 4 times the same bin image?
21:42:19	alemaxx	just loaded it into ida, thats the bootrom and with comments in the idb
21:42:29	alemaxx	wodz, maybe
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21:42:39	alemaxx	but its only 8k i think
21:43:06	alemaxx	yes, IDA shows 4 times the same 8k
21:43:28	wodz	alemaxx: I can't open idb - it complains about pirate version :-)
21:43:29	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Sounds ok to me. Though I'm probably not the best person to ask such questions ;)
21:43:29	alemaxx	just a matter of address decoding I guess
21:43:55	alemaxx	wodz, then load the .bin, no comments though
21:44:25	alemaxx	arch: arm (obviously) addr: 0
21:45:34	wodz	alemaxx: yes this file makes sense to me - thank you once more
21:45:56	alemaxx	np
21:46:46		Part vnl
21:46:48	wodz	this will take me some time to study this :P
21:47:09		Quit petur (Quit: connection reset by beer)
21:47:12	alemaxx	Im uploading a html export of my idb
21:47:36	wodz	alemaxx: do you know how 'big' .RKW file is structured? I mean RKRS and RKST sections
21:47:47	alemaxx	alemaxx.al.funpic.de/rk27/tmp/rom8k_2.html">http://alemaxx.al.funpic.de/rk27/tmp/rom8k_2.html
21:48:15	wodz	I know there is a tool floating around to unpack such RKW but couldn't find any sources or documentation about it
21:48:15	alemaxx	wodz, yes. have a look at the rkwpatch.c
21:48:31	alemaxx	ohh, you mean these firmware archieves
21:48:36	wodz	yes
21:48:40	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:48:41	*	linuxstb thinks RaaA desperately needs to use native list widgets
21:48:54	alemaxx	about 2 years ago or something I wrote an unpacker
21:49:21	alemaxx	but i dont know where I have the code
21:49:32	alemaxx	anyway, its of minor interest I think
21:49:50	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Try to call your phone while rockbox is playing
21:50:11	alemaxx	my advice would be: kill your device (erase the nand bootloader)
21:50:23	wodz	alemaxx: yes - I am interested 'just for completness'
21:50:42		Quit kronflux (Quit: Leaving)
21:51:58	alemaxx	wodz, you have probably a good knowledge of the rockbox source. does it have its own "nand loader"
21:52:22	alemaxx	or do you just copy a big bin onto the flash?
21:52:49	linuxstb	thomasjfox: I will do later - babies are sleeping now, so I'll need to go outside...
21:53:58	*	linuxstb wonders if the play/pause icons on the touchscreen cabbie should be reversed - i.e. if it should show the pause icon whilst playing, and the play icon when paused.
21:54:31		Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
21:54:56	alemaxx	wodz, btw, an uart interface is extremely important. the pins are multiplxed with the lcd signals so yu cant use both at the same time but depending on how your display is connected you may have some good solder points
21:55:12	thomasjfox	linuxstb: amarok (my desktop player) does it the same way it is now
21:55:52	thomasjfox	Though there is definately something wrong with the theme, it shows the context menu when you press prev/next track
21:56:11	linuxstb	Is this an already-existing theme, or did you adapt it for the n900?
21:56:19	thomasjfox	kugel adapted it
21:56:30	wodz	alemaxx: It is usually up to the port developer. One strategy is to patch original bootloader to do jump into custom code (we do this on some coldfires and PP ipods I think), other strategy is to overwrite original bootloader altogether (this how iloadr works I belive)
21:56:35	thomasjfox	there was no theme for 800x480 yet
21:56:47	thomasjfox	kugel ported his 480x800 theme
21:57:14	thomasjfox	[Saint] did take a look about the issue but didn't find it either
21:57:42	wodz	alemaxx: rockbox image is usually loaded from fat
21:58:04	alemaxx	okay, I started a u-boot port
21:58:45	linuxstb	thomasjfox: What do you think about keeping the native maemo status bar along the top?
21:58:58	alemaxx	actually the only thing I did so far is setting up a new device and adding an uart
21:59:15	thomasjfox	that's something i wanted to check out, too. Depends on how much pixels it sucks up
21:59:32	thomasjfox	it would definately make closing the application easier :)
21:59:39	bluebrother	the only bootloader I'm aware of that completely replaces the OF bootloader is the Iaudio devices. iloader is not a Rockbox bootloader :)
21:59:40	alemaxx	wodz, I wouldnt suggest to keep the bootloader
21:59:56	alemaxx	thats way more complicated in my opinion
22:00
22:00:05	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Best thing would be a switcher between windowed and fullscreen mode like in other applications
22:00:21	wodz	alemaxx: sure it is much easier to patch RKW
22:01:16	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Maybe. Although I think I would be happy if only windowed mode was available.
22:01:38	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Do you have a scratchbox installation?
22:01:49	linuxstb	thomasjfox: I don't even know what that is...
22:02:04	thomasjfox	It's the devel system for maemo :)
22:02:05	alemaxx	wodz, you would need to deal with their filesystem code also
22:02:27	thomasjfox	There's a preconfigured ubuntu VM on the net. That's the one I'm using for development
22:02:53	alemaxx	and its totally annoying to copy a new base.rkw onto your device just to test some code. believe me, I did that
22:03:01	linuxstb	thomasjfox: I've only had the n900 a couple of days, and know nothing about maemo... I do have this page open though - http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html
22:03:48	*	linuxstb got stuck at the "Download version for: GUI installer(), Scratchbox installer(), SDK installer()" question...
22:04:01	wodz	alemaxx: that's why I want to explode DFU mode during development
22:05:22	wodz	alemaxx: Do you know the purpose of the 4th image stored in Rock27Boot.bin? 1st is sdram config, 2nd is some usb loader, 3rd is bootloader I believe and 4th?
22:05:38	alemaxx	no
22:06:05	alemaxx	have you decoded the boot.bin?
22:06:07	linuxstb	thomasjfox: To answer your question - no I don't have the SDK installed, but plan to...
22:06:30	wodz	alemaxx, http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/Rockchip27xx/rkboottool.c
22:06:36	thomasjfox	linuxstb: I use the "desktop SDK" image from here: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/
22:07:32	alemaxx	wodz, your code?
22:08:20	thomasjfox	linuxstb: You could try a "raw" scratchbox installation if you are running debian/ubuntu on your workstation
22:08:33	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Yes, I run Debian natively, so will try that.
22:08:34	thomasjfox	linuxstb: The VM is nice if something goes really wrong, you can easily reset it
22:09:04	CIA-7	New commit by bluebrother (r29206): systrace: convert input strings using local codepage. ...
22:10:41	wodz	alemaxx: If you ask about rkboottool.c than yes - I wrote it. But I borrowed xor decoding from your rk27load.c :-)
22:11:41	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Going back to the play/pause icons - the BBC iplayer as an example does it the opposite way to Rockbox. And I'm sure other video players I've seen do it that way round as well. i.e. the icon says what the action is when pressed, not what the current playback state is. But I'm assuming this is not n900 specific.
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22:12:06	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Let me see what the stock player does
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22:12:51	thomasjfox	linuxstb: It does it the way you proposed it
22:13:14	thomasjfox	As you said, this is more of a rockbox wide thing I guess
22:13:48	*	linuxstb has no idea who wrote this originally...
22:14:11	CIA-7	r29206 build result: 1277 errors, 483 warnings (bluebrother committed)
22:14:25	bluebrother	wtf ...?
22:14:42		Quit alemaxx (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:14:52	linuxstb	thomasjfox: What are your plans for the port? Are you going to do much more work on it?
22:15:43	bluebrother	and the build system just says "Build failure". Looks like a build client is acting up
22:15:50	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Current plans are to fix the shutdown handling so most of the "known issues" in the wiki will be gone
22:16:04	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Pushing the changes upstream is also a priority :)
22:16:41	thomasjfox	On the lower priority list is to create a pulseaudio backend, so the n8xx and n900 version share a common audio backend
22:17:50		Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
22:17:54	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Also I want to do a new release once kugel's ucontext code is upstream. That will save about 10% to 12% percent CPU
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22:18:19		Quit kugel (Changing host)
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22:27:37	bluebrother	hmm, looks like there is currently no way to retrieve the TTS vendor in Rockbox Utility
22:29:40	linuxstb	thomasjfox: What's "ucontext" ?
22:31:26	thomasjfox	linuxstb: kugel developed a new thread engine for RaaA using sigaltstack(2)
22:31:28	alemaxx	wodz, what about the zsp500?
22:31:52	thomasjfox	linuxstb: The current SDL implementation is a resource hog...
22:32:03	linuxstb	Ah, RaaA is still using SDL threads?
22:32:10	alemaxx	do you probably plan to do a gcc port in order to write faster codecs for the rj27 rockbox?
22:32:18		Quit e4r (Quit: e4r)
22:32:47		Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:32:54	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Yes. kugel made that switchable between sigaltstack, assembler threads and SDL threads
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22:34:02	wodz	alemaxx: First I want to have something running on ARM core as it is easier. Then in longer perspective I would like to add support for zsp to binutils. As for compiler this will be HUGE work
22:34:22	alemaxx	indeed
22:34:41	alemaxx	I have a windows version of the binutils but as crashes in wine
22:34:55	alemaxx	like "as" the assembler
22:35:36	wodz	alemaxx: from the rk26xx SDK ? :-)
22:35:46	alemaxx	I have another device which contains a ceva-x1620/MM2000
22:35:49	alemaxx	wodz, no
22:35:54	alemaxx	not from the sdk
22:36:25	wodz	rk26xx sdk contains binutils and gcc port for zsp400
22:36:26	alemaxx	you may already have seen this: alemaxx.al.funpic.de/rk27/jpg.s">http://alemaxx.al.funpic.de/rk27/jpg.s
22:36:44	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Have you thought about how to release Rockbox? As I'm sure you know, we make "current" and "daily" builds available on the website. Could we for example host our own repository and update it (automatically) with those?
22:36:45	alemaxx	yes, I have zsp500 versions
22:37:17	alemaxx	these were part of some debugger I downloaded somewhere
22:37:43	alemaxx	wodz, you have any ceva tools? :-)
22:37:50	wodz	no
22:38:00	alemaxx	im under the impression that they are very hard to get
22:38:09		Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:38:40	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Good question. As the n900 uses normal apt stuff for the packages, it should be possible. The hard part would be to get scratchbox + all the dependencies up and running on the build box
22:38:51	alemaxx	already tried to hack this trace32 program which contains a disassemler but I was only medium successful
22:39:25	wodz	I applied for evaluation version of sdk tools for zsp DSP but they wanted me to sign NDA even before deciding if I will get the tools
22:39:48	thomasjfox	linuxstb: We should still do stable releases on maemo.org as it reaches more people by this way
22:40:18	linuxstb	thomasjfox: We have many build boxes... And yes, stable releases should of course be on maemo.org
22:41:36	alemaxx	was this zsp dsp bought by mips?
22:41:43	thomasjfox	linuxstb: It should be possible to automate the build process. I mean, I just upload the tarball to maemo.org and it get's build and signed there
22:42:06	AlexP	android could do with being in the build system too
22:42:16	linuxstb	Signed? Is that something we can't do ourselves?
22:42:37	thomasjfox	it doesn't have to be signed
22:42:39	alemaxx	wodz, I think the rk28s do also use a ceva dsp
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22:43:13	wodz	alemaxx: I was talking with some VLSI representative from France
22:43:30	linuxstb	thomasjfox: That seems a bit odd - you can just upload a tarball (containing anything?) and it will be signed, but you can't sign things yourself?
22:43:31	alemaxx	okay
22:43:54	thomasjfox	linuxstb: The built binary package will be signed
22:44:01	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Let me look up the details on that
22:44:56	wodz	alemaxx: btw they were interested in selling IP cores only.
22:45:47	alemaxx	how much is it? ;-)
22:46:23		Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:46:44	alemaxx	I think i saw ARM cores on pudn, not sure though
22:47:02	wodz	They say their dsp ip core is competitive in terms of power/price ratio :-)
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22:48:13	alemaxx	a very conservative statement
22:49:02	alemaxx	I would expect something "like best in class mips/mw performance" from a marketing guy
22:49:44	wodz	this guy was speaking french-english dialect so he did what he could :P
22:50:04	thomasjfox	linuxstb: I don't find it right now. I guess I read something in the build log which you get after an upload to maemo.org's build system.
22:51:03	kugel	thomasjfox: could we set something up that people add to their sources.list?
22:51:45	thomasjfox	kugel: Yes. We could then just "debsign" the package and provide the key
22:52:27	alemaxx	wodz, do you have some more questions?
22:52:54	wodz	alemaxx: not for now, thanks. I have to study this bootrom code a bit.
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22:53:33	alemaxx	wodz, okay, Ill leave now, you can contact me if you have some more questions
22:53:43	wodz	ok, thanks
22:53:57	alemaxx	good luck and I hope I can install a rockbox soon ;-)
22:54:01	alemaxx	okay, bye
22:54:07		Quit alemaxx (Quit: Ex-Chat)
22:55:28		Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:56:32	linuxstb	kugel: Is there a reason the "Application" port is just one menu option in configure with a follow-up question, and not a list of targets?
22:57:11	kugel	no
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23:00
23:00:32		Quit esperegu_ (Remote host closed the connection)
23:06:48		Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me))
23:09:15	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Looking at your patch, this is actually two ports - maemo4 and maemo5, and you decide which one to build based on which SDK you find installed?
23:10:09		Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:10:14	thomasjfox	linuxstb: scratchbox contains both targets. You select the active target in "sb-menu".
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23:11:12	thomasjfox	linuxstb: scratchbox then updates the gcc and library symlinks
23:11:17	linuxstb	Why not let the user choose which he/she wants to build, and then check if the correct SDK is installed/active? This would be more in line with other Rockbox targets.
23:12:08	linuxstb	And you seem to be specifically targetting the N8xx and N900 - are there any other maemo devices?
23:12:27	thomasjfox	No that I know of :)
23:12:50	thomasjfox	They started to port maemo to the BeagleBoard. That is still -very- alpha if not unusable
23:13:38	linuxstb	It seems a bit confusing - i.e. is this a meamo5 port, or an n900 port? I guess this is more a general question about RaaA, and what targets should be listed in the "tools/configure" menu.
23:14:56	linuxstb	The code in tools/configure is enabling optimisations for the CPUs in the n900/n8xx, so it would seem to be a port to those devices.
23:15:06	thomasjfox	linuxstb: The question will get more interesting once there's a MeeGo port
23:15:20	thomasjfox	That will run on different devices from different manufacturers
23:15:22	linuxstb	Do you have to manually enter the LCD size when running configure?
23:15:35	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Well, I guess it's already an issue for Android...
23:16:28	thomasjfox	linuxstb: I'm currently playing around with the OpenPandora SDK. Just didn't get to start the compiler yet as I'm on IRC :o)
23:16:47	thomasjfox	linuxstb: So the pandora might be the next target...
23:17:07	linuxstb	No, don't get distracted with that thing.... ;)
23:18:29	thomasjfox	linuxstb: It will share most of the code with the maemo port. Same display size and it would also need the pulseaudio backend
23:19:28	thomasjfox	linuxstb: Though this is just playing around instead of a full port intention ;)
23:20:46	amiconn	linuxstb: Imo n900 audio quality is quite decent (through headphones). Some of the newer dedicated daps are worse...
23:21:02	linuxstb	thomasjfox: Do you know much about meego? Would that be similar to the maemo port? (I'm waiting on an mmc card to be delivered so I can try it on my n900)
23:21:33		Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:22:00	amiconn	thomasjfox: Good work on maemo rockbox. It seems to work well, apart from occasional short freezes
23:22:17	thomasjfox	linuxstb: No, I don't have a mmc card yet... I just know "libplayback" is now called "libresource". That's the one responsible for audio playback while the silent profile is active.
23:22:22	amiconn	And the wps is not really usable, but that's not your fault...
23:22:37	thomasjfox	amiconn: Thanks. How often do those "freezes" happen?
23:22:59	amiconn	Hmm, happened twice for me while playing a complete album
23:23:34	thomasjfox	Do you have a lot of tasks running in the background like checking for email?
23:24:02	amiconn	Maybe it was that. I've set it to check for email every 30 minutes (on wlan only)
23:24:28	*	amiconn did some tweaking since, maybe the issue is gone now
23:24:39	thomasjfox	amiconn: I thought about increasing the audio buffer size. May be it's too short
23:25:06	thomasjfox	amiconn: We should retry once kugel's new thread code is active
23:26:10	linuxstb	amiconn: Do you have an opinion on the play/pause icon in that wps? (discussed here earlier)
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23:27:29	amiconn	Yes. Imo it should show the action triggered when tapping it, i.e. the opposite of what it does now
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23:28:09	amiconn	I don't know whether this is a rockbox wide issue - the n900 is my only touchscreen target, and on other targets I don't use cabbie
23:28:38	linuxstb	Yes, this is the first time I've tried touchscreen Rockbox as well.
23:28:40	amiconn	On non-touchscreen it should probably stay like it is now, because it's a status indicator, not a button
23:28:53	thomasjfox	amiconn: The simulator build of another touch screen device might know
23:30:26	bluebrother	can I use more than 9 backreferences in Perl?
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23:31:36	thomasjfox	bluebrother: Not that I know of. You can disable the match of () if it's just used for grouping
23:32:44	linuxstb	amiconn: What about the built-in maemo statusbar? I think I would prefer Rockbox to always show that instead of its own.
23:33:02	amiconn	If it would work...
23:33:06	bluebrother	thomasjfox: ok. That makes things a bit easier here
23:33:20	amiconn	Rockbox doesn't support variable screen resolution - but that would be required here
23:33:53		Quit dfkt\|x (Remote host closed the connection)
23:34:35	*	amiconn doesn't care much, because he doesn't actually use rockbox on the n900
23:34:38	linuxstb	amiconn: I was thinking of it being fixed at 800x(480-statusbar_height) - i.e. the maemo statusbar would always be there.
23:34:43	amiconn	Just for testing
23:34:48	thomasjfox	We could have a theme that's just 800x465 or something and have a button to switch between fullscren and windowed mode like in other maemo applications
23:35:12	amiconn	Is it possible to programmatically switch to the app chooser?
23:35:33	thomasjfox	We could simulate a CTRL+BACKSPACE input :o)
23:35:33	amiconn	If so, we could have our own button for this
23:35:51	amiconn	Touch button, to be precise
23:36:17	amiconn	Could even be in an .sbs
23:36:36	*	amiconn thinks one of the most important things is a bigger font
23:36:53	thomasjfox	amiconn: Hmm, no dbus event for the app switcher
23:37:54	thomasjfox	amiconn: Try to set the font to 35-something -again-
23:38:17	thomasjfox	One user reported the font changed after doing this??
23:40:21	amiconn	SOmething -48 would be better, imo
23:41:01		Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving)
23:41:11	amiconn	Maybe 35 is okay too, but then the top line (in menus etc) needs to be moved down (e.g. by having a custom status bar)
23:41:13	thomasjfox	I tried a -50 and it look way to ugly without AA :o)
23:41:29	amiconn	Touching the top line is rather tricky atm
23:42:04	*	amiconn can't stand AA (except subpixel aa on hires tft monitors)
23:44:45	*	amiconn wonders why some umlauts are broken
23:44:57	amiconn	'ä' is okay, 'ü' and 'ß' are broken
23:45:55	amiconn	'ö' is okay too
23:46:59	thomasjfox	amiconn: ü is fine in the settings menu
23:47:01	amiconn	Ah, 35-Nimbus is broken
23:47:13	amiconn	It's missing the respective characters
23:48:15	*	amiconn wonders whether voice works
23:48:33	*	amiconn also wonders whether it would be possible to add keyboard navigation
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23:48:42	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:51:08	thomasjfox	Keyboard navigation is the way I use it...
23:51:26	amiconn	bluebrother: From http://www.ryerson.ca/perl/manual/pod/perlre.html : "You may have as many parentheses as you wish. If you have more than 9 substrings, the variables $10, $11, ... refer to the corresponding substring."
23:52:48	amiconn	thomasjfox: Eh, somehow I missed that it's already working...
23:53:26	*	linuxstb too ;)
23:53:30	thomasjfox	:)
23:53:48	linuxstb	Also, how is navigation supposed to work? e.g. how to return to the WPS from the file browser? Or go from the WPS to the main menu? Are keys mapped to that?
23:53:49	thomasjfox	The touchscreen mode needs improvement, I think it's currently way too precise to click something
23:54:10	thomasjfox	linuxstb: You have to go throught the file browser currently and work your way up
23:54:21	thomasjfox	kugel fixed that for the android target IIRC
23:54:29	amiconn	linuxstb: Iiuc the wps is supposed to show an item in it's "touch context menu" that goes to the menu
23:55:08	amiconn	It's currently broken, probably because of overlapping viewports
23:55:52	amiconn	The wps is a quick and dirty adaptation. It's in need of some work
23:56:08	amiconn	The boot logo is also still missing the proper resolution, btw
23:58:16		Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201)

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