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#rockbox log for 2011-02-07

00:03:41mlt-Is it possible to do a per playlist resume? Are bookmarks the only solution? I mean... if I have audiobooks, music, and let's say language courses, and I'd like to resume where I stopped in each playlist independently.
00:03:50S_a_i_n_tFS# 11679 has been put out of commission :/
00:04:23S_a_i_n_tmlt-: I believe the recently added bookmarking fuctionality allows this.
00:05:37mlt-hm.. how recently? Including r29209? Any documentation? keywords for me to read more about it?
00:06:19S_a_i_n_tit's in the manual, as for how recently....~2 maybe ~3 weeks ago.
00:06:22mlt-It is a bit inconvenient to manually add bookmark before shutting down
00:06:36 Join JdGordon1 [0] (
00:06:37mlt-hm..ok.. let me see
00:06:51S_a_i_n_tyou don't have to do so anymore, it can automatically add a bookmark on stop now.
00:07:08S_a_i_n_tyou can set it to auto or prompt iirc
00:08:43mlt-ahh... I think I saw it in the menu... but I feel like it flooded my bookmark list.
00:09:42mlt-I think it would be nice to save a current position along with a playlist file thus having one suspended position per playlist
00:10:06mlt-Does it worth implementing?
00:10:08sideralmlt-: You may want to try the new autoresume feature, which stores a resume position for each track.
00:10:54sideralThe basic functionality is already in SVN. If you want more, check out FS #11748
00:11:40mlt-that is not an option if I understand you correctly. Language courses as well as audiobooks have huge number of files per playlist. autoresume per track won't help.
00:12:41S_a_i_n_twas FS #11820 committed?
00:12:53S_a_i_n_tthere's no note of ity on the task.
00:13:18*mlt- reading FS #11748
00:13:55sideralmlt-: Right. I thought bookmarks were made exactly for your use case −− take a snapshot of a playlist?
00:16:14mlt-sideral, the only issue with bookmarks is I have to use them manually. otherwise the list will be flooded with old and obsolete bookmarks
00:16:57sideralmlt-: That was a problem for me as well, and actually one of the motivators for starting the autoresume work.
00:17:44sideralBut isn't there a bookmarking option that only creates new bookmarks automatically if you ever created one manually?
00:17:52mlt-Use case: I listen to language course. I get tired. I listen to music. Then may be some audiobook. Then language again. I don't want to partly skip some tracks as with FS #11748 as for language learning it is better to listen again even if I skipped something in the past
00:18:33CIA-7New commit by amiconn (r29239): Fix standalone demac tool build.
00:18:47mlt-and I still want to be able to remember where I am in each list individually without using bookmarks.
00:19:24mlt-bookmark can be useful if I want to listen once in a while to some complex subject while let's say learning language.
00:19:58sideralmlt-: I had an idea for extending autoresume in this direction, but I'm not sure it would cover your use case fully:
00:20:29mlt-If your autoresume can apply to 'playlist' it would be just perfect!
00:20:43sideralThe idea is for each database view to start with the most recently played track highlighted
00:21:29sideralYou'd just navigate to the audiobook or whatever, see all the chapters as tracks, and the "cursor" would be at the most recently listened to
00:22:04sideralHit Play, and the playlist is loaded, and the highlighted track is resumed
00:22:11mlt-hm... track is not enough.... for audiobook, I may be somewhere in the middle of the track.
00:22:12CIA-7r29239 build result: All green
00:22:13mlt-oh... resumed
00:22:26sideralthen fastforward/rewind/skip to where you want to be
00:22:54sideralYes, resumed, that's the idea
00:23:19mlt-Shame to admit, but I didn't get used to database yet:-) I use plain old files for now:-)
00:23:46sideralmlt-: No problem, I seem to be the only one using the DB around here :)
00:25:19mlt-I'd like to, but I have a bunch of improperly tagged files I'm trying to organize. I wish there is something like gmusicbrowser for MS Windows.
00:25:40S_a_i_n_tsideral: I use the DB religiously.
00:25:52*S_a_i_n_t can't stand the file browser.
00:26:06S_a_i_n_tI mean, it has it's uses...but for music, I use the db.
00:26:10sideralSaint: ahh, so good to know :)
00:26:13S_a_i_n_tI use the file browser for files ;)
00:26:35sideralmlt-: You can try Musicbrainz Picard, it's cross platform
00:27:10S_a_i_n_tmp3Tag also has Win/*ix binaries IIRC
00:28:40mlt-I'm using MusicBee for now under MS Windows, but I miss gmusicbrowser. It's cloud view is a killer feature for me.
00:28:45S_a_i_n_tI'm quite a fan of mp3Tag personally...but I like to tag all my files manually, so I know they're correct.
00:28:57S_a_i_n_tI can't vouch for it's auto-tagger at all.
00:30:04sideralmlt-: Just run it in a VM?
00:31:56mlt-they are slow & evil on non-modern (with VT enabled) CPUs.
00:31:59mlt-back to rockbox
00:32:04sideralSaint: Do you have your own DB views defined as well? And can regular users be expected to do that as well?
00:32:51S_a_i_n_tyes, and yes.
00:33:21S_a_i_n_tthe tagnavi_custom file is pretty easy to use/understand
00:33:44S_a_i_n_tI just have a very trimmed down version of the database, and I've alphabetized it.
00:33:48mlt-so, sideral, I'd have recently played track highligthed per artist/album in DB with resume somewhere in the middle of the track?
00:33:59S_a_i_n_tized? ised? ...bah.
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00:35:09mlt-wow... I learned something new today... tagnavi...
00:35:11sideralSaint: I was wondering whether Rockbox should offer premade podcast and audiobook submenus. People tend to keep them separate from their music, but that requires putting directory names in the tagnavi files...
00:35:53S_a_i_n_tthat is very easy to do, I think if users want that functionality...and can use google, they'll figure it out.
00:35:54sideralAlso, with views filtered by autoresume (resume offset != 0) could live in their ("resumable podcasts")
00:36:09S_a_i_n_tthere's a blatant "do this if you want this" example of exactly that in the wiki.
00:36:13sideralmlt-: Yes, exactly
00:36:52S_a_i_n_tsideral: <−− if you're curious.
00:36:54mlt-"views filtered by autoresume (resume offset != 0)" that is sweet
00:37:13S_a_i_n_tit uses a lot of the original DB menu, but agganges it differently, and trims the fat.
00:38:07sideralSaint: I know about the wiki page, but I worry about the "user". Not sure if we have any of those, though ;)
00:38:27 Quit {phoenix} (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:38:33S_a_i_n_twhat, users? ;)'s jus us. :P
00:42:07sideralNice tagnavi file. I chose to just extend the original menu with my own:
00:43:02sideralNotice the "There's no logical-or operator?!?" in there ;)
00:43:32sideralmlt-: Yes, that's extremely convenient to find unfinished podcasts
00:44:56S_a_i_n_tsideral: I like to alphabetize my menus ;)
00:45:25S_a_i_n_tI'm quite anal like that, a large body of my trees diffs are rearranging the menus to my liking.
00:46:10sideralSaint: Good idea. I've sorted the most frequently used db-main-menu entries to the top.
00:46:38sideralI haven't touched the Rockbox menus yet, although it's tempting
00:46:46S_a_i_n_tI don't like that "ergo-sorting" idea unless the menu actually sorts *itself* according to use.
00:46:56S_a_i_n_tI don't like to assume who's going to use what more.
00:47:20S_a_i_n_tthat's why I think alphabetical is good, but it'd need to be done for each language....uuuurgh. :/
00:47:26sideralI did customize my keymap, though. The stock keymap for the Clip does not offer hotkey or quickscreen, both of which I like
00:48:11S_a_i_n_tthat would be a damn nice feature to try and implement actually....self sorting ergonomic menus.
00:48:21mlt-btw... is database CUE-aware?
00:48:51sideralSaint: Go ahead, but I'm afraid I wouldn't use it :)
00:49:07sideralmlt-: I have to admit that I don't know!
00:49:31mlt-i feel like i see it in feature request section. that is sad
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00:51:06S_a_i_n_tsideral: what would you have against a learning, self-sorting menu system?
00:51:20 Part Logan_WP ("Leaving")
00:51:32S_a_i_n_teach page would retain the same items, but sorted by usage
00:52:02S_a_i_n_tit'd be something that visually impaired users would need to be able to turn off though.
00:52:38sideralSaint: it would confuse me if menu entries would change their position at will. I tend to remember places pretty well ("it was the second-to-last thing on this screen").
00:53:20pixelmasame here
00:53:42S_a_i_n_tbut, if it was something you used often, it would theoretically be easier to find eventually no?
00:53:51S_a_i_n_tas it would be one of the first offerings of the page.
00:54:06sideralI'd be afraid that the top-three entries would swap places all the time
00:54:25sideralSo I would have to closely look at them at all times
00:54:41pixelmanot if I expect it to find it at the end of a list - or if it changes position from like 2nd to 1st place or something
00:54:49S_a_i_n_tI think it would be similar to T9 sms...once you get used to it it'd be quite nice, but getting used to it might be a little weird while its "learning".
00:55:36 Quit ender` (Quit: I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image. -- Stephen Hawking)
00:59:53sideralSaint: T9 is actually rather deterministic
01:00:40mlt-Do I have to tweak tagnavi to see a year before album name while browsing a database?
01:01:05mlt-like <year> <album> instead of simply <album> ?
01:01:18sideralmlt-: Yes, that should be possible
01:02:05pixelmaI didn't get that one to work - only if year is another virtual folder level
01:02:19*S_a_i_n_t too.
01:02:58S_a_i_n_tit is probably possible, but fiddleing with the tagnavi is not my cup of tea.
01:02:58pixelmaor maybe if you put a "year album" string into another supported tag
01:03:08S_a_i_n_tI can only manipulate it very basically.
01:03:46pixelmaI think I read threads in the forums and/or flyspray explaining the limitations but I'd given up on that
01:04:16pixelmaand forgot... I believe it was roolku who last looked into it
01:06:23mlt-I'll give a try to use custom format for album
01:07:16mlt-Is database memory card aware? I.e. does it hide files not available if SD card is removed without deleting entries?
01:07:43S_a_i_n_tif Auto Update is on, I believe so.
01:07:54sideralpixelma: Perhaps formats can only be specified for leaf nodes (actual tracks), not intermediate menus?
01:08:31pixelmano idea really :\ maybe a forum search could help
01:08:35mlt-S_a_i_n_t, so it won't simply delete missing entries with Auto Update?
01:09:01mlt-sideral, that is said if format can apply to intermediate menu
01:09:10mlt-I'm gonna try that in few minutes
01:09:39S_a_i_n_tI may have missunderstood the workings of auto-update, on second thought I believe it checks on startup.
01:11:03sideralmlt-: I think the DB never deletes entries unless you rebuild it. It just marks disappearing files as deleted, and undeletes them on next update (with all their metadata/statistics) if they reappear
01:12:15 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
01:12:32sideralBut I don't know whether hiding files on removable media is implemented in this way
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01:17:57mlt-hm.. either I made a typo, or format can't be applied to intermediate menus
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01:26:42mlt-bummer... I forgor version header in tagnavi_custom. But it didn't help.
01:28:05mlt-I guess format can apply only to end leaf
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01:33:09*sideral adds one more item to the list of things he does not understand about tagtree.c
01:34:18S_a_i_n_tsideral: oh?
01:34:30sideralmlt-: I plan to become an expert in database browsing, and then I'll fix this for you. I should be ready by the time I retire :)
01:34:49S_a_i_n_tIt is my firm belief that the db is constructed of magic.
01:35:07sideralSaint: The other one is why DB updates are not reflected immediately in the DB viewer
01:35:26S_a_i_n_tsee above ;)
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01:36:16sideralIt's not that bad, actually. I kind of like tagcache.c :)
01:36:31*S_a_i_n_t blinks
01:36:34JdGordon1sideral: if you're playing with the db.... partial DB state files for microSD's are very much on the wishlist :p
01:37:28*sideral updates his TODO file
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01:49:50mlt-hm... tagtree.c parses stuff without bison and friends
01:49:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:50:59JdGordon1of course
01:51:20JdGordon1bison is a tad overkill for it
01:51:44 Join mordocai_laptop [0] (
01:54:09mlt-so... mostly each line of tagnavi maps to search_instruction that has single format_id field. I.e. it is not trivial to add format to intermediate menus :(
01:55:38S_a_i_n_twhy isn't HAVE_HOTKEY defined for application builds?
01:56:06S_a_i_n_tit shouldn't matter if there's not a hardware key mapped for it should it, if it can be defined with a touch area.
01:56:07JdGordon1it isnt?
01:56:20JdGordon1it should be enabled for touchscreen by default
01:56:40*sideral removes one item from the list of things he does not understand about tagtree.c, thanks to mlt-
01:56:45S_a_i_n_tI'm looking in application.h and it's commented out there.
01:56:47*JdGordon1 mentions something about not assuming anythin about the sanity of app builds
01:56:50S_a_i_n_tJdGordon1: ^
01:57:03JdGordon1svn blame on that line and punch them
01:57:55S_a_i_n_tI should be able to safely enable it, correct? it won't fail if there's no keymap defined for it will it?
01:58:40JdGordon1if you cant you'll get compile errors
01:59:20S_a_i_n_tI'll give it a crack when my current round of builds finishes.
01:59:31 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.)
02:01:28maxsinHi! Can someone revise and submit patch ? It closes FS #11870 for affected Transcend hardware and is harmless for not affected microSD cards.
02:01:56RaptorsDoes rockbox delete the bookmarks if I delete the file?
02:02:08Raptors(not through device)
02:03:33mlt-so... can we turn format_id into an array of some MAX_CLAUSE_COUNT size? NULLs would mean no particular format. And take clause_count into account.
02:03:58mlt-while assigning format
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02:05:55mlt-maxsin: What card do you use?
02:06:34mlt-I have Transcend 32 Gb and see no particular difference with this patch and without
02:06:39mlt-on Clip+
02:07:14maxsinMicroSDHC card model −− Transcend 16Gb class 2, TS16GUSDHC2
02:07:14maxsinon Clip+
02:09:05mlt-hm..mine is also class 2
02:09:10maxsinIt's content isn't visible without this patch. Card itself is present in "Debug" menu
02:10:50mlt-btw.. what speed are you getting? Mine shows 25 Mb/s while 50 Mb/s for internal memory.
02:11:00S_a_i_n_tis "android:screenOrientation="portrait"" in AndroidManifest all I need to change to make a landscape version of RaaA?
02:11:02maxsinMy card is low-end and very cheap. May be, it has very slow (during initialization, at least) embedded controller.
02:13:10maxsinWithout patch (content is not visible) −−- Speed: 25.0Mbit/s
02:13:10maxsinAfter patch (content is visible) −−- Speed: 50.0Mbit/s
02:13:25mlt-Hm... okay. I wonder if it is possible to choose delay based on card information.
02:13:52pixelmaS_a_i_n_t: setting a different width and height during configure isn't enough?
02:14:36S_a_i_n_tI don't think it's smart enough to swap the orientation based on screen dimensions
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02:14:54JdGordon1depends what you want to acheive
02:15:01pixelmawhich orientation?
02:15:41S_a_i_n_tI'd like to rotate the whole screen 90 degrees basically
02:15:53S_a_i_n_tas if the application were in landscape mode.
02:16:11pixelmaI mean, it's asking for the width and for the height seperately, not "some screen dimensions" IIRC
02:17:14S_a_i_n_tbut swapping the width and height values wouldn't be enough, surely?
02:17:34S_a_i_n_tthen wouldn't flip the orientation of menus also.
02:18:30pixelmaif it doesn't then I don't understand the configure options
02:18:36S_a_i_n_tafaics swapping width/height values and changing that line in AndroidManifest should "just work".
02:18:39pixelmawhich is possible
02:19:24mlt-hm... I just tried once again patch from FS #11870. It actually gives me 50 Mb/s for internal memory and still 25 Mb/s for my 32 Gb external card.
02:19:30JdGordon1S_a_i_n_t: try it and see...
02:19:40S_a_i_n_tiff all you did was swap the width and height values, then you'd just end up with out of bounds values.
02:19:57S_a_i_n_twell, one far too small and one out of bounds
02:20:14S_a_i_n_tbut yes, I will try this and see.
02:20:25JdGordon1like I said before.. dont assume any sanity on app builds, android especially
02:20:38S_a_i_n_tOh, I won't ;)
02:20:41*JdGordon1 thinks the java<->c interactions are really badly done
02:21:07maxsinIMHO, my card switches to HighSpeed timings slowly and during this process incorrectly processes another commands (so we need dumb delay or polling of card state). Delay is simple and "it just works" solution.
02:21:15S_a_i_n_tthey're brilliantly done from my pov, as java is not my friend at all.
02:21:55S_a_i_n_tgevaerts did a recent commit that sped up the javac stuff during compile time dramatically
02:22:29pixelmaI believe you but then asking for a width and a height is just silly and misleading (maybe it could do the rotation if it detects width > height or somesuch)
02:23:05S_a_i_n_twhy is asking width or height silly?
02:23:11S_a_i_n_tit needs those values.
02:23:37pixelmaif it's always portrait then it needs the shorter dimension and the longer dimension
02:24:03JdGordon1pixelma: the width/height are asked in configure because they are compile time constants.... there is a patch to not need to for app builds but it hasnt been accepted yet
02:24:22S_a_i_n_tI don't think it matters what way it asks for the values.
02:24:25pixelmait's about the naming of these parameters and what I assume(d) they would do
02:24:34mlt-maxsin, yes I tried z8080's build
02:25:18JdGordon1pixelma: stop making assumptions about the code.... it will only get you into trouble
02:25:23S_a_i_n_tI honestly can't see the way you expected them to work to be honest, I'm trying not to be rude about it...but I just don't see how it could be interpreted differently.
02:26:16pixelmaI don't discuss about being able or about the necessity to give it a width and a height - just that I thought that if I give it a *width* of 320 and a *height* of 240 it would do the rotation automatically
02:27:13S_a_i_n_tno, it would literally give you a width of X and a height of X
02:27:22pixelmaotherwise I don't call it width and height, just one dimension and the other dimension or so. That's all
02:27:26S_a_i_n_tbut the orientation is always portrait
02:27:46maxsinmlt-: Your card seems to be more "fair" and it not accepts "overclocked" timings (actually not needed for it's 2nd class). My card accepts these timings (but switches to they very slowly)
02:28:00pixelmayou really lost me there but I stop discussing that now
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02:28:59mlt-maxsin: I guess we should find a committer with clip+. I know jhMikeS has access, but has no clip+ :-)
02:29:09S_a_i_n_tafaics the orientation is only governed by the AndroidManifest file...but I don't know if I chose landscape instad of portrait if it will be left-landscape, right-landscape, or smart enough to use the accellerometer to decide.
02:32:18mlt-I wonder if more than 100ms delay would increase speed of my card
02:38:09mlt-bummer... DB Auto Update takes forever after turning my player on without SD card by accident :(
02:38:42mlt-Is it safe to turn the player off or do I have a chance to corrupt FS?
02:39:18S_a_i_n_tthere's a chance it will corrupt the FS if it is writing to disk when it shuts down, yes.
02:40:11mlt-hm.. isn't it a shortcoming? It would make sense to stop any file operations if user wants to turn a player off.
02:41:44S_a_i_n_tFS #11883 should help with that.
02:43:33maxsinThis issue appeared after applying my patch?
02:44:15mlt-No, I was about to try 200ms delay, but turned on default build without memory card by accident.
02:45:46mlt-Oh... I saw FS$11883 while was reading about USB support for Clip+, but I didn't notice shutdown case :-)
02:46:58mlt-hmm 200ms doesn't make any difference.. still 50 Mb/s for internal memory and 25 Mb/s for 32Gb card
02:48:39maxsinmlt-:100ms in question is delay during initialization. It's absence may (or may not, depends of card's internal controller speed) lead to missing of some consequent commands.
02:50:37maxsinI made some tests and results are in INFO patch (in comments)
02:51:00mlt-Hmm... I thought that same class cards from the same vendor should yield same speed
02:52:06maxsinmlt-: They may use different silicon design
02:53:06mlt-Then it defeats all class specifications.
02:55:48mlt-Oh, well... good like I hope some commiter with clip+ will hear your voice:-)
03:03:18maxsin25 Mbit/sec is greater than 16 Mbit/sec (2MByte/sec for 2nd SDHC class), so class specifications are not defeated. But 50 Mbit/sec interface speed is redundant, I agree.
03:03:45mlt-oic...I was not aware what was exactly 2nd class :-)
03:07:35maxsin2nd class == 2Mbyte/sec speed guaranteed
03:11:14maxsinAnybody here know how to find commiter with Clip+ ?
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03:14:16mlt-I guess making your own builds is the only solution for you for now.
03:15:01mlt-You may register with Wiki and ask for permision to make a note about SD cards. Perhaps someone will pay attention to it:-)
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03:15:36maxsinmlt-: Good idea! Thank you!
03:16:27mlt-Or actually
03:17:02mlt-since some folks suggested to reopen FS #11798, maybe it would be a good idea
03:17:34mlt-Can someone here reopen FS task?
03:22:11maxsinWe have discussion about FS #11798 reopening (in FS #11870 comments) and Bertrik Sikken is against re-opening of FS #11798
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03:23:43maxsinBut problem of committing these changes still exist.
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03:46:34mlt-How do I include year in tagnavi format? I tried %d, but it shows "-2" no matter what year it has...
03:47:12mlt-oh... while I was writing this I realized that perhaps year doesn't apply on album level.. or does it?
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05:39:54RaptorsDoes rockbox delete the bookmarks if I delete the file?
05:39:55Raptors(not through device)
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05:55:33CIA-7New commit by kkurbjun (r29240): DM320: Fix to reduce binary image size.
05:59:11CIA-7r29240 build result: All green
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06:24:01RaptorsJdGordon1, how do I delete them?
06:25:05S_a_i_n_tWTF!?! How can the Nano2G possible need 3.2Mhz to decode FLAC8 unboosted, and 13MHz boosted?
06:25:33JdGordon1Raptors: just delte the .bmark file
06:25:35S_a_i_n_tunless someone mixed up the boosted/unboosted entries in test_codec, I'm speechless
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06:31:20*S_a_i_n_t waits for ages for a round of unboosted test_codec results, and hopes that it decides to save the log this time.
06:32:00S_a_i_n_t~3Mhz unboosted, and ~13Mhz boosted for flac8 seems....wrong, plain wrong.
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07:52:18BuschelS_a_i_n_t: unboosted test_codec gave wrong results on my builds as well. divide your 13MHz by 4 and you'll get ~3.2MHz. the factor of 4 is the ration from boosted to unboosted clock. so, test_codec uses the unboosted clock to calculate the effective clock, but is still boosted.
07:52:40BuschelS_a_i_n_t: I am not sure whether this might be connected to my gui boost patch
07:54:10S_a_i_n_tBuschel: it's not, as...I don't have it installed ;)
07:54:33Buschelok, then you might write a bug report :)
07:54:43S_a_i_n_tbut it's good to know, IO can stop this test_codec run if I *know* it's screwy.
07:55:39S_a_i_n_tAnd, I will do...I thought that 3Mhz unboosted and 13Mhz boosted was...wrong.
07:58:52S_a_i_n_tBuschel: I'll let the full test_codec test complete for both boosted and unboosted and post them on the FS entry when I make it.
07:59:00S_a_i_n_tthe results may expose a pattern.
08:01:07Buschelyou can very easily spot if it is broken -> memorize the speed with which a file is processed boosted and check this when using unboosted test_codec. speed = order of magnitude when test_codec advances through the file (e.g. steps of ~1200)
08:01:16Buschelpattern = same decoding time
08:02:13S_a_i_n_twell, my other plan was to post some current test codec results, but if it's bust... :/
08:03:00Buschelwell, you might pimp your sources to not boost :) this way you could test the unboosted performance
08:03:46S_a_i_n_tI believe the unboosted results are correct (doing them now), the boosted results look quite wrong though.
08:04:01Buschelno, vice versa. (at least on my unit)
08:04:02S_a_i_n_tit takes some time to complete the entire test_files folder
08:04:10S_a_i_n_tHmmm, weird.
08:05:15Buschelnano2g's memory is quite slow. due to this fact and especially in boosted state the results are not that good
08:06:06Buschele.g. one of my mpc test files needs ~33 MHz boosted vs. ~26 MHz unboosted on my nano2g. my iPod Video does the same with ~22 MHz
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08:14:06BuschelS_a_i_n_t: does this fix it? ->
08:14:20BuschelI cannot test it now
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08:14:46S_a_i_n_theh, nor can I...but I can let you know when I can ;)
08:14:53Buschelok ;)
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08:24:22BuschelS_a_i_n_t: forget about this patch...
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08:28:33S_a_i_n_tno worky?
08:29:53Buschelrethinking it now
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11:29:37gevaertsLinusN: the next time you're doing iriver recovery work, could you make a photo of your setup? That would probably help me understand things a bit better
11:29:55LinusNgevaerts: will do!
11:30:01B4gderwe need an instruction video!
11:30:17LinusNB4gder: :-)
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11:30:34AlexPHow tedious would adding android to the auto builds?
11:30:43AlexPJust a dependency on the sdk/ndk I guess?
11:30:52B4gderyes, we need to make this happen
11:32:05AlexPOnly one screen size need be built I guess
11:33:22B4gderwe can start with one, but offering the lets say three most popular resolutions will be nice
11:34:15gevaertsOffering downloads would require always signing on the same machine, right?
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11:39:20webguest87sideral: [Saint]: pixelma: just as an info: there was a patch (FS #7809) that would allow to reorder the menu entries (manually or automatically based on usage statistics), but it was rejected.
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11:42:58sideralThanks anonymous whistleblower!
11:49:16sideralQuite an interesting read, that tracker item.
11:49:32linuxstbgevaerts: How does the signing work? i.e. is the signing key linked to a specific developer/company?
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11:54:23[Saint]sideral: Now the interesting challenge, can I sync this puppy or not. :-S
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11:55:36sideralSaint: You probably shouldn't unless you're wearing your asbestos suit
11:56:08*[Saint] blinks
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11:57:19sideralSaint: Talking about FS #7809? It looks like you are entering flamewar territory :)
11:59:38sideralSaint: Or maybe I need an upgrade to my IRC dictionary? Not sure what you meant by "sync this puppy"...
12:00:43[Saint]syncing that patch, and yes, I am talking about FS #7809
12:01:52[Saint]I don't care for opposition, really. I think it's worth playing with. Even if just for myself.
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12:05:22sideralOkay, have fun! Perhaps your playing with it ultimately leads to a more configurable menu structure −− that would be of more general interest I reckon
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12:10:48pixelmasuch "intelligent/know more than I do" menus remind me of the MS Office style "intelligent" menus which hide seldom used items - one of the first things I switch off
12:12:03n1si don't like the auto reordering either, just making the menus configurable could be a nice feature though, or at least it's one we ger requests for quite frequently
12:14:01Tornejust reordering might be kinda unsatisfying
12:16:04[Saint]I'm going to attempt at least, to get this "smart" ordering working.
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12:16:41pamaurysideral: here ?
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12:28:09[7]woah, the s5l8702 has a whopping 50 clock gates!
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12:36:30gevaertslinuxstb: I have no idea really
12:37:02JdGordon|[Saint]: i wouldnt spend too much time on it
12:38:25[Saint]JdGordon|: I don't care about it being committed.
12:38:33[Saint]It's something I'd like to play with.
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13:26:21sideralpamaury: I'm back
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13:54:15dagbyAnyone around?
13:55:13dagbyIf I install RockBox on my Ipod nano 3g, is it easily uninstalled if I want to?
13:55:15 Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:55:36[Saint]if you could install Rockbox on your Nano3G, I'll be amazed ;)
13:55:47[Saint]Rockbox doesn't support this target.
13:56:09pixelmas/support/works on
13:56:59dagbyhow do I figure out what Ipod I have
13:57:05dagbymaybe it is just a Ipod 3g
13:57:42dagbyI just got it
13:57:54pixelmaunlikely, the old 3rd gen Ipods are hard disk players
13:58:20[Saint]is it small, and thin and square?
13:58:28[Saint]anodised aluminium front?
13:59:40dagbywith a screen shiny silver back
13:59:42Tornedagby: Almost all of the working ipod models were discontinued a long time ago :)
13:59:44[Saint]Then no, it's not supported.
14:00:06dagbycan I change themes on my ipod if its 3g nano?
14:00:32dagbywhy so
14:00:41Tornebecuase you can only do what apple allow you to do with it?
14:00:47[Saint]Torne: I assume it wasn't purchased new, if it is indeed a 3G nano.
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14:01:02[Saint]they're even quite old now.
14:01:10Torne[Saint]: not that old..
14:01:32[Saint]pretty old in terms of the "iWorld", but...not ancient.
14:01:40Tornecame out at the same time as the classic
14:01:41dagbythe last 3 chars on the serial are YXX
14:01:45Torneso that's the new world :)
14:02:00dagbythere must be a way to put some themes on this thing
14:02:10Tornewhy must there be?
14:02:20dagbyanything is possible
14:02:38Tornewell, there is: wait for someone to port rockbox to it
14:03:03[Saint]but...don't hold your breath.
14:03:25dagbyI found this ipod in a recycling bin
14:03:38dagbywith the cord and everything so I plugged it in
14:03:42dagbyand it said it was corrupt
14:03:47dagbythen I just hit restore
14:03:49dagbynow it works
14:04:10dagbyso now what can I do with it
14:04:57[Saint]use it as an iPod?
14:05:07[Saint]that would be my first guess.
14:07:25dagbyI just want to do stuff to it too though
14:07:29dagbyI watched a video on it
14:07:40dagbyI learned how to convert videos because of it
14:07:45dagbyand I was successful
14:08:21dagbythere must be much more I can do and learn with this device
14:08:38[Saint]there really isn't.
14:08:47B4gderdagby: sure, dig in and make so
14:09:07B4gderprepare for a battle
14:09:44[Saint]the ahrdware is similar in some respects to the Classic, so...there's a foot in the door.
14:09:48[Saint]but, that's about it.
14:10:04B4gdereven better
14:10:24B4gderdagby: dig out your electronics and assembler skills and go
14:10:33[Saint]as in "it will be extremely difficult"
14:11:03dagbyI feel shakey all of the sudden
14:12:33dagbyokay it is defiantly a ipod nano 3g 8GB
14:12:44dagbywell thanks for the idea's my sons
14:12:58dagbyI will continue on my solid quest of ipod adventures
14:13:17*B4gder gets the impression dagby thinks we are young... =)
14:13:35*dagby is one day old
14:14:07B4gdercan it be MORE adventure than doing your own rockbox port? B)
14:14:20dagbyI am not that skilled :(
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14:16:58dagbyvery interesting
14:17:08dagbylooks like it will never be finished though
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14:17:16[Saint]"2010-10-25: Linux4nano is terminated and has been subsummed by a new project freemyipod."
14:17:36B4gder... hence my pointer to that site just up there ^
14:17:52B4gdera totally different subject =>
14:18:25dagbyI see why there is no rockbox port now
14:18:33[Saint]we're aware of these projects.
14:18:37dagbythis makes much more sense
14:18:44dagbyI figured you were
14:19:08dagbyhave any idea's one what to do now?
14:23:48dagbydon't you guys get bored and want something more out of my Ipod?
14:23:51dagbycause I sure do
14:24:09[Saint]We have DAPs supported by Rockbox ;)
14:24:55[Saint]s/DAPs/DAPs and Android devices/
14:25:12dagbystop making me even more sad and jealous
14:25:49dagbyit's almost as if apple robbed me of my freedom
14:26:41[Saint]I wouldn't say you were robbed if much, considering you found the player in the trash.
14:27:14[Saint]It would be incredibly hard for Apple to make an monies at all if their hardware/software was open.
14:27:33dagbyI know in my heart that it is just a feeling, but sometimes even a feeling seems real [Saint]
14:29:15dagbyalthough you do make a good point, eventually someone will open it
14:39:20[Saint]There is third part code running on the device presently, but...a replacement OS is a long way off still.
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14:39:45dagbyhow many years do you think?
14:40:55[Saint]it's not possible to say.
14:43:41dagby[Saint] of all the mobile devices what was your favorite to mod
14:44:33[Saint]I'm having the most fun with Rockbox as an Application on Android presently.
14:45:32[Saint]the only real "modding" I do is Rockbox themes, though.
14:48:50Tornedagby: it's unlikely to take years of *effort*, though months is possible; the thing is that currently there's probably nobody working on it
14:49:01Torneso however long it's going to take, that clock hasn't really started yet :)
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15:06:27dagbyTorne this angers me but I fear I can be no use in the great work
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15:06:53Tornesomeone will probably do it eventually
15:06:56Torneis all I can say :)
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16:44:29rsquared256I have been trying to change the rockbox code to turn off recording when plugged into usb.
16:44:40rsquared256I am close, I have the usb screen showing up, but the drive is not showing up
16:45:37rsquared256I have added the first if stmt, it pretty much mirrors the other if stmt, but turns off the recording
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16:46:21rsquared256I have tried a few things (as you can see) but still I cant get the device to show up as a drive
16:46:38rsquared256any ideas?
16:47:38gevaertsrsquared256: can you upload a patch instead? It's a bit hard to see what you changed and what was there
16:53:16rsquared256pasted as a patch against trunk
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16:55:39rsquared256side question, is there a way to simulate usb events in the uismulator?
16:58:49gevaertsNot easily
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16:59:36rsquared256ok. I will keep trying on the device.
16:59:45gevaertsHave a look at if you feel adventurous
17:00:14amiconnAfaik the simulator does simulate usb connect/ disconnect when pressing 'u'
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17:02:39rsquared256So was thinking that there might be a thread that has not SYS_USB_CONNECTED_ACK?
17:03:07gevaertsNot if you get the USB screen
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17:06:20rsquared256hmmm, with the new code I added the recording does seem to stop, I get the usb screen, the stop icon shows at the top. But no drive. If I stop the recording manually and insert usb, drive appears (default behaviour)
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17:09:15pamaurysideral: you investigated the files left open. Which are those: current song ? platlist_control ? font ?
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17:11:49rsquared256amiconn thanks, the 'u' does simulate usb events in the uisimulator
17:12:39gevaertsrsquared256: you don't want both default_event_handler(SYS_USB_CONNECTED); and usb_acknowledge(SYS_USB_CONNECTED_ACK);
17:12:56gevaertsdefault_event_handler() calls default_event_handler() which calls usb_acknowledge()
17:13:25rsquared256ok, I will take the usb_acknowledge out. I have been trying many combos :)
17:14:05rsquared256I had it out before, but same behaviour (no drive showing up)
17:15:09n1swhat do we do currently if recording when usb is plugged in?
17:15:20gevaertsah, wait... You get the USB screen because you call default_event_handler(). That means the USB screen indeed doesn't mean much
17:15:40gevaertsSo yes, it's possible that a thread doesn't acknowledge USB
17:15:43peturn1s: refuse/ignore I'd guess
17:17:13rsquared256I would think the first if stmt would get to about the same state as the second if stmt? What threads might be not ack usb?
17:17:55gevaertsrsquared256: have a look at how SYS_USB_CONNECTED is handled in apps/recorder/pcm_record.c
17:19:08gevaertsThat will need to be changed, but I have no idea how that will interact with your changes to apps/recorder/recording.c
17:19:22amiconnIirc the intent is that recording should block usb
17:19:33*gevaerts doesn't know much about recording
17:19:39amiconnI.e. as long as a recording is running, plugging usb should have no effect
17:20:51rsquared256btw I am recording it still pc,_record running?
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17:21:22gevaertsYes, unless you're on HWCODEC
17:22:16rsquared256sansa clip, so I believe SWCODEC
17:22:39peturmaybe you just need to wait a bit for recrding to actually stop before trying to handle USB
17:23:23peturasking the recording thread to stop should normally allow USB again
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17:24:11rsquared256I do have a wait loop that checks for recording stops before calling  default_event_handler(SYS_USB_CONNECTED);
17:24:41rsquared256would that be sufficant?
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17:30:03peturI'd have to check the code, too long since I was in there :/
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17:31:50sideralpamaury: I've verified that currently playing song and font always remain open. I also know from my debug output that there's sometimes a third file, but I don't yet know which one. (The call to open had already been flushed from the log when I dumped it, and I haven't yet implemented any better instrumentation.)
17:32:16pamauryyou light have a chance with playlist_control, just a guess :)
17:32:41sideralI know with some confidence that that third file was open for writing, as my unmount code managed to close and flush it
17:33:51sideralI also suspected it might be some DB file open during DB update, because I observed a frequent need to rebuild the DB when plugging in USB too quickly after reboot (during automatic refresh)
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17:35:32sideralYes, the playlist-control frequently is corrupted (file length > length of cluster chain), so it might be a likely candidate as well
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17:37:55pamauryOk, I'm thinking about how to solve the real issue. Perhaps we could introduce a message like SYS_FS_UNMOUNT which would ask thread to release all open files belonging to a volume. This would alos be useful on sd unmount, instead of a full FS_CHANGED
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17:41:17sideralSo, much like SYS_USB_CONNECTED. Yes, that's what I (and some others here) figured as well
17:41:49sideralBTW pamaury, USB now works flawlessly for me on my ClipV2 with my Linux host, with the following config: #define USE_ROCKBOX_USB, revert r29169, and nothing else (that is, w/o the hard-reset workaround from FS #11664)
17:42:41pamauryok cool, the sd part is not mine :D
17:43:05pamauryI think we should treat differently USB connect and the FS mount/unmount. And that would possibly superseed FS_CHANGED
17:44:17sideralIs there a way today to soft-eject an SD card?
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17:45:25sideralProbably not, given that there was no unmount function and no notification mechanism other than post-hard-eject FS_CHANGED
17:45:40pamauryI don't think so
17:46:46sideralFortunately, most users use their removable media in a read-{only,mostly} fashion
17:47:08pamauryBut FS_CHANGED is a bit violent. Flushing everything for a micro-sd insertion/eject is a bit weird
17:47:36pamauryespecially with respect to dircache
17:48:48pamauryor modify FS_CHANGED to use the message argument with a bitfield: volume, mount/unmount
17:49:23pamaurythis way, the old code behave in a safe fashion, and new code is more subtle
17:50:00pamauryhum, bad idea
17:50:01sideralThere should be another bit, hard/soft, that tells code whether it can still clean up or not
17:50:01 Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.)
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17:50:55pamaurya dedidcated message seems better, one per volume. And each one with a bit saying if it's mount/unmount and clean/or not
17:50:56sideraland some feedback / synchronization to wait for clean up to finish
17:51:52pamauryyes, feedback is important
17:52:05pamaurylike usb
17:53:50pamauryOk, then I'll think about it and have a look at how hard it is to fix the apps/ code
17:55:30sideralExcellent, thanks!
17:57:55 Quit petur (Quit: Page closed)
18:00:39rsquared256 gevaerts: handling the SYS_USB_CONNECTED in the pcm_record.c worked! thanks!!!!!!
18:01:58sideralAll: I'm readying my first nontrivial commit, the autoresume enhancements ( I think I'm pretty well prepared, but: Would anyone be willing to (a) sanity check the lang string changes (I'd hate to have to deprecate lang strings again), and (b) spend some time handholding today or tomorrow in case I break anything royally?
18:03:16 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message)
18:09:08n1ssideral: lang changes look fine with a quick look
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18:10:15sideralThanks for having a look, n1s!
18:16:20yahya69hi, this is a rather broad question, I just returned from a large multimedia retailer store and I was unable to find any device supported by RockBox. Personally I have been using a Sansa Fuze v2 and I am very happy with it. But I am about to buy a device for my son and it has to be in that shop as we have a voucher. So are there any /recent/ devices, which can still be found on shelves and...
18:16:22yahya69...for which Rockbox development is well underway so that they can be expected to be supported in the not too distant future? The Buyers Guide page at the Wiki says for all but one player that they are no longer being produced, the only exception being the sansa fuze v2, however, this device is also out of sale...
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18:18:41saratogayou can buy a clip+ right now
18:18:44sideralyahya69: I think the Clip / Clip+ are still available for sale
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18:18:47saratogai think the ipod classic as well
18:21:33yahya69ipod classic? I'll have a look. Actually I am not too fond of the Sansa clip because of the extremely small display...
18:21:41mlt-you can get clip+ from Amazon as I did
18:24:46yahya69The Ipod classic looks nice, although, the price somewhat exceeds what I was ready to spend. Are recent models supported?
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18:26:54saratogai think theres one model of ipod classic that was made a couple years ago that still doesn't work due to a weird hard disk or something
18:27:06saratogayou should probably check the wiki instead of asking us though
18:27:45mlt-Aren't ipods slow for instance to play cpu intensive APEs?
18:28:18Torneonly the PP ipods are slow
18:28:29mlt-what is PP?
18:28:41yahya69saratoga: The wiki lists ipod classic under "unusable ports"
18:28:47Torneyahya69: yes
18:29:01Tornemlt-: the hardware ipods were based on until the Classic and Nano2G
18:29:16Tornethe later ipods are substantially faster
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18:30:05Torneyahya69: you asked which were well underway
18:30:23Torneyahya69: the classic port boots and some people use it, but it still has work to do
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18:30:36yahya69saratoga: you are of course right and I have been looking at the wiki, however I felt I was not really getting anywhere, because it seemed like most devices are either unsupported or out of sale, therefore I hoped there would be some recommendations from personal experience
18:30:55TorneThat's the reality, though
18:31:00yahya69Torne: yes, right, thanks
18:31:36yahya69Torne: and except for the price, this sounds like a very good tip
18:31:42saratogai recommend the gigabeat X
18:31:50saratogabecause its the most impossible mp3 player to get
18:32:08yahya69saratoga: ?!?
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18:35:54saratogaisn't there a code execution vulnerability for the ipod classic? shouldn't it be possible to simply dump the clock gate settings from the OF while in playback, idle, etc
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19:09:05pixelmasideral, n1s: regarding - isn't the change for deprecated strings to set them as empty strings for now, so "" not none. I thought this has an influence on e.g. voice files, no?
19:09:58sideralpixelma: I used to deprecate these strings, assuming it does the right thing
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19:13:50sideralThere are many examples of deprecated strings in apps/lang that look like what I did
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19:15:41pixelmathere were also quite a few voice file breakages lately - and I mean announcing the wrong string and not "only" not speaking the option
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19:23:50pixelmathe annoying thing about the wrong string one is that it affects all options that follow the "breaking point" whereas not speaking an option just affects that one or two strings
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19:33:04sideralpixelma: I cannot comment on that as I don't have voice files. Could you test the patches and check whether they work as expected?
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19:43:13CIA-7New commit by theseven (r29241): S5L8702: Power down I2C while it's unused
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19:47:05CIA-7r29241 build result: All green
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19:49:49sideralpixelma: I guess the "renumbering" problem occurs only when removing / replacing a lang string, not when deprecating it in this way
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19:53:23CIA-7New commit by theseven (r29242): iPod Classic: Fix hold switch glitches
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19:54:36CIA-7New commit by theseven (r29243): Fix some evil whitespace
19:56:28CIA-7r29242 build result: All green
19:59:56CIA-7r29243 build result: All green
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21:02:51n1spixelma: you might be right, i don't remember if there is magic to take care of deprecated strings marked as such in the desc:
21:03:18n1sthis whole system is way too fragile
21:05:24n1sdoesn't look like it so i think pixelma is right, the strings should either be changed to deprecated (without quotes, like none is used now) or ""
21:06:22n1snone means that the string is excluded for that target so using *: none as the only target is the same as just deleting the whole phrase
21:07:18 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
21:09:46n1sindeed, LANG_REC_SIZE was deprecated in the same incorrect fasion
21:11:36n1srestoring it now will break voice files created the last 6 weeks so i think i'll just delete it to not confuse others
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21:26:16CIA-7New commit by nls (r29244): Remove incorrectly deprecated LANG_REC_SIZE phrase to not be confusing. Having only the *: none target is the same as deleting the phrase so this does ...
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21:30:07CIA-7r29244 build result: All green
21:32:21n1sah, so langtool is buggy, and creates those broken deprecated strings, not nice
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21:35:12CIA-7New commit by learman (r29245): Update Swedish translation.
21:35:35n1shmm, genlang prints a warning when replacing a string with deprecated without quotes, that used to work
21:38:33CIA-7r29245 build result: All green
21:38:59n1sdon't have the time to fix langtool now :/
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21:39:58n1sstill, the whole lang system should be redone in some other way, IMO
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21:51:08n1shmm, i do in fact have a fix but not sure why it did what it did before
21:51:23n1srasher: could you shed some light on this?
21:52:03rashern1s: hm, so it should be *: "`"?
21:52:06rasherer, *: ""
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21:52:58n1sbut also it shouldn't change the targets specified
21:53:14n1sso if it's *: none
21:53:25n1sand h300: "foo"
21:53:39n1sthe *: none must remain but the h300 line should be ""
21:54:26n1s seems to fix it but i'm not quite sure
21:56:04n1sdoes it look OK?
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22:02:05Lamp23Is everyone getting the HTTP error for Rockbox utility?
22:02:12kugeln1s: what's the difference between none and ""
22:02:55n1skugel: none makes genlang exclude the string so if a target matches only none it doesn't have the id
22:03:10n1s"" is an empty string but the id is still there
22:03:42n1smaybe but that is how it works
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22:04:50n1sthe way langtool currently deprecates strings means that they are entirely excluded for all targets so it's the same as just deleting them
22:05:05ZagorLamp23: what ip do you get for
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22:06:48n1sreplacing the string with "deprecated" (whout quotes also works and is equivalent to "" or worked but genlang now prints a warning for that due to some but
22:07:40Lamp23Zagor: how do i tell?
22:09:35n1skugel: i think the whole system we use for this should be redone to be more robust somehow
22:10:05n1sthat will probably sacrifice some binary size and or ram though
22:11:50Lamp23and also
22:12:18kugelthere are several mirrors
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22:18:31ZagorLamp23: what error are you getting?
22:33:36Lamp23when I hit Install the bootloader it will try to download but then say Can't get version information Network Error: HTTP Request failed
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23:31:52Zagorunsurprisingly, untangling the playback code from the rest is nontrivial...
23:32:13kugelZagor: have you tried?
23:32:31Zagoryeah, messing with it right now
23:32:47pamauryIf you tried, then it's not difficult enough, we should make it more difficult
23:33:34kugel"just because" or does it have something to do with a native android ui? :)
23:33:48 Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:34:30Zagorit would enable a lot of things. native ports is one, but also much better testing.
23:34:48Zagor*native gui ports
23:36:07Zagorand way easier debugging
23:36:31Zagorwhich we'll need if I ever complete this ;)
23:38:27kugelI wish you best luck!
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