| 00:00:07 | | Quit shai (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:00:17 | TheSeven | but on the power consumption side i don't see any effect, while in emcore the effect is massive |
| 00:00:26 | TheSeven | (emcore is also ticking at 100Hz, so that shouldn't matter) |
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| 00:00:49 | | Quit JdGordon| (Changing host) |
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| 00:00:59 | * | TheSeven likes the realtime "MHz in use" line in the buffering screen :) |
| 00:01:17 | TheSeven | (29-30MHz for MP3 right now) |
| 00:01:47 | * | TheSeven wonders why on earth it's boosting 3% of the time if it's sleeping 74% of the time |
| 00:02:17 | pamaury | is there something special I should now about ldr and mov pc, rx on ARM. For some reason I can't make it work |
| 00:02:29 | | Quit webguest95 (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 00:02:42 | * | TheSeven looks for a power-hungry codec |
| 00:02:55 | TheSeven | between ape 3000 and 4000 would be perfect :) |
| 00:04:22 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:05:55 | TheSeven | according to my buffering screen hack c3000 is using ~56MHz |
| 00:06:25 | * | TheSeven wonders if he should make a better version of that hack and throw it into flyspray or even svn |
| 00:10:03 | thomasjfox | kugel: Shutdown handling needs some more work, the last.FM file / database play counts still isn't written or read back |
| 00:10:21 | thomasjfox | kugel: But embedded album art works fine :) |
| 00:12:01 | TheSeven | hm, c4000 plays like 50% realtime, but i don't see *any* difference in current draw compared to MP3 |
| 00:12:30 | kugel | thomasjfox: meh/cool |
| 00:12:32 | kugel | :) |
| 00:12:39 | * | TheSeven wonders if we can get rid of everything that relies on tick accuracy |
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| 00:12:57 | TheSeven | it would be very helpful if i could just reduce the tick rate to 50 or even 25Hz while not boosting |
| 00:13:23 | TheSeven | we'd still have an accutate USEC_TIMER, so i see no reason why that shouldn't work if done properly |
| 00:18:00 | thomasjfox | kugel: I hope I'll find enough time to fix the shutdown stuff before Sunday. Though this will depend on "external" demands ;) |
| 00:19:28 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:19:57 | JdGordon| | TheSeven: PLEASE do it! |
| 00:20:12 | JdGordon| | we had this argument with doing that for android when the app was hidden |
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| 00:20:52 | TheSeven | JdGordon|: Seems like that's a can of worms though :/ |
| 00:20:53 | JdGordon| | there is absolutly no reason the tick rate needs to stay constant, or heigh when the only important tihng happening is audio playback (i.e no screen) |
| 00:21:36 | | Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:21:53 | TheSeven | JdGordon|: wouldn't the best approach even be dynamically scheduling wakeups, if that's possible on the hardware? |
| 00:22:01 | TheSeven | that would reduce both load and latency |
| 00:22:54 | TheSeven | do we have a usec timer or something equivalent on all platforms? |
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| 00:23:28 | TheSeven | i mean, in the worst case we could just keep the tick timer constant on platforms that don't have one, and fake a usec timer based on that |
| 00:24:03 | | Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 00:29:04 | TheSeven | we should be at ~12h battery life on the ipod classic now |
| 00:29:17 | TheSeven | how does apple manage to do three times as much? |
| 00:30:02 | TheSeven | i'm doing aggressive undervolting, clock gating, clock scaling and proper sleeping now |
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| 00:31:12 | Llorean | TheSeven: I know on the gigabeat Swhen we tried to do manual clock scaling initially it actually harmed battery life. I think it was theorized that the CPU had automation to handle such things itself if we left it alone after the bootloader initialized it. |
| 00:31:41 | TheSeven | i don't think we have such a thing here |
| 00:31:51 | Llorean | I also remember there was quite a while on the PP iPods where we were asking similar questions along the lines of "we're doing an awful lot, yet they still beat us by 30%, why is this?" |
| 00:31:58 | Llorean | Though... three times is a bit much |
| 00:32:22 | TheSeven | apple seems to be running that thing at ~14mA average, juding from their 36h runtime claims |
| 00:32:32 | TheSeven | we're at like 40 now |
| 00:32:46 | Llorean | Are the 36h claims realistic? |
| 00:32:53 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 00:32:54 | TheSeven | i think so |
| 00:33:11 | TheSeven | at least their 24h claims on the nano2g were actually like 26h |
| 00:33:30 | TheSeven | and they were running that one at ~16mA (we're at ~13 now) |
| 00:33:52 | Llorean | So do we need to use vastly less CPU, or is it other things draining power. |
| 00:34:01 | JdGordon| | TheSeven: dunno, the reason we were looking at the tick is because the tick tasks are mostly nop's when the display is off so there is no need to even bother calling them so often |
| 00:34:02 | TheSeven | it seems to be other things |
| 00:34:04 | Llorean | I know we were losing a lot of power to things like accessory power supply, etc. |
| 00:34:08 | TheSeven | CPU load is at ~30MHz |
| 00:34:26 | JdGordon| | it was theorised that the constant wakeups was sucking cpu time from android (Although thats been fixed a different way now) |
| 00:34:48 | TheSeven | if that thing is completely idle and i'm running emcore on it, i get down to ~12mA at very very low clock speeds (48MHz) |
| 00:35:19 | Llorean | Don't we clock under 48mhz on the PP ones? |
| 00:35:26 | Llorean | Shouldn't we be able to get even lower on the Classic? |
| 00:35:39 | Llorean | I thought we were able to get as low as about 24mhz on the PP iPods with MP3 decoding happening. |
| 00:35:56 | TheSeven | we can't get below 108MHz while keeping the tick rate constant and a decent bus speed |
| 00:36:32 | TheSeven | 54MHz might be doable at half the tick rate, but everything below that kills USB and the HDD |
| 00:36:34 | Llorean | So that's what needs to be solved, or is it just impossible to do that for some reason? |
| 00:36:37 | TheSeven | also the LCD will start lagging |
| 00:36:52 | Llorean | Well, we don't need the HDD except during buffering (which boosts anyway), and doesn't USB also boost? |
| 00:37:00 | TheSeven | yes, they do |
| 00:37:22 | TheSeven | but nevertheless i'm pretty sure that apple is running it constantly at 216MHz |
| 00:37:26 | Llorean | Ah |
| 00:37:57 | TheSeven | also that whole clock setup thing is not really well understood yet |
| 00:38:07 | Llorean | But if you can get down to ~12mA at low clock speeds, that suggest at most 12mA is going to all other hardware, right? So if we're at 40 now, that means we could trim to 28, still double what you said Apple's at? |
| 00:38:21 | TheSeven | i think i've figured out the most important parts of it, but there are still questions left, like why we can't clock AHB == APB |
| 00:38:41 | TheSeven | Llorean: that's not true |
| 00:38:48 | TheSeven | the 12mA is the absolute minimum i can reach |
| 00:39:13 | TheSeven | i.e. clocking at 24MHz or something, USB off, HDD off, backlight off, codec off, everything undervolted, CPU idle |
| 00:39:33 | Llorean | Aaah, okay |
| 00:39:50 | Llorean | Even then it suggests you must be missing something if they can hit 14mA while decoding. |
| 00:39:58 | | Quit mlt- (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 00:39:59 | kugel | TheSeven: can you disable the display? |
| 00:40:01 | TheSeven | yep, but what? |
| 00:40:14 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: some can go lower than 24Mhz also...but at a rather large cost to UI functionality. |
| 00:40:16 | TheSeven | kugel: i can, but apple isn't doing it |
| 00:40:22 | S_a_i_n_t | (hence the boost on GUI patch) |
| 00:40:49 | TheSeven | S_a_i_n_t: 54MHz is already lagging gui-wise |
| 00:40:53 | kugel | the displays usually give huge power savings |
| 00:41:10 | Llorean | TheSeven: I think he meant PP iPods |
| 00:41:23 | TheSeven | hm, maybe they're re-initializing the LCD at some point and putting it into some lower power mode |
| 00:41:33 | TheSeven | i don't have datasheets for the LCDs yet :/ |
| 00:42:14 | Llorean | Well, best of luck at least. The progress so far is still pretty exciting. |
| 00:42:34 | TheSeven | kugel: let me try LCD off, backlight off, codec off, USB off, everything off @54MHz |
| 00:43:42 | TheSeven | oh, wait |
| 00:44:10 | TheSeven | emcore, backlight off, USB ON, 216MHz, idling except for a 100Hz tick: 37mA |
| 00:44:21 | TheSeven | so lower than rockbox at 108MHz with USB off |
| 00:45:07 | TheSeven | the LCD accounts for 3.5mA |
| 00:45:29 | | Quit kugel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:47:40 | pamaury | haha, I now have the proof that my WinCE bootloader is mapping the SDRAM at 0x8c000000. |
| 00:49:14 | | Quit ender` (Quit: A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. -- Vique's Law) |
| 00:49:23 | | Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 00:54:51 | TheSeven | 8.3mA :D |
| 00:55:15 | TheSeven | 54MHz, idle, usb off, hdd off, backlight off, lcd off, codec off, undervolted |
| 00:55:54 | TheSeven | now we need to figure out how to make it actually do something useful at that current :) |
| 00:56:22 | TheSeven | 11.8mA with the LCD powered on, that leaves us like 2mA to work with... |
| 00:57:39 | Llorean | How much does the codec use then? |
| 00:58:43 | | Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 00:58:56 | TheSeven | certainly depends on the headphones and volume settings, but usually more than 2mA |
| 00:59:19 | TheSeven | the electronics use barely anything, but it needs to supply some power to the headphones :) |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:11 | TheSeven | ~12mA with the LCD active |
| 01:02:02 | TheSeven | also the hold switch being locked increases current consumption by ~4mA. |
| 01:02:10 | TheSeven | there must be something wrong with that |
| 01:03:40 | S_a_i_n_t | +~4mA from applying hold!?! |
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| 01:04:15 | TheSeven | turning on the hold switch physically powers the clickwheel down |
| 01:04:38 | TheSeven | so we might need to change some gpio settings to prevent current from leaking through clamp diodes on the data lines |
| 01:05:55 | * | S_a_i_n_t wonders how different the hardware would be if the manufacturer gave a flying f**k about power consumption. |
| 01:06:21 | TheSeven | ~14.5mA at full CPU load with LCD on |
| 01:06:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:06:29 | TheSeven | so CPU load at 54MHz only accounts for 2.5mA |
| 01:06:44 | S_a_i_n_t | wow. |
| 01:06:54 | S_a_i_n_t | that's a fairly cheap LCD |
| 01:17:14 | DEBUG | EOF from server (Connection reset by peer) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545) |
| 01:17:14 | *** | Cleanup |
| 01:17:14 | *** | Cleanup |
| 01:17:14 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 01:17:14 | *** | Exit |
| 01:17:17 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
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| 01:18:34 | TheSeven | yep |
| 01:19:01 | TheSeven | CPU idling at 216 vs. 108MHz: 5.0mA difference |
| 01:20:00 | | Quit toffe82 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]) |
| 01:20:02 | TheSeven | AHB clock: 108 vs. 54MHz (guessed): 3.6mA difference |
| 01:20:50 | TheSeven | APB clock: 54 vs. 27MHz (guessed): 0.3mA difference |
| 01:22:27 | CIA-70 | r29267 build result: All green |
| 01:22:53 | TheSeven | CPU at full load at 216 vs. 108MHz: 4.2mA difference |
| 01:23:29 | TheSeven | CPU at 108MHz at full load vs. idle: 6.8mA difference |
| 01:23:47 | S_a_i_n_t | ?!? |
| 01:24:14 | S_a_i_n_t | that last ones...not what I would have expected. |
| 01:25:35 | TheSeven | CPU at 216MHz at full load vs. idle: 6.7mA difference |
| 01:26:15 | TheSeven | when closing that circle, we have 0.8mA of error somewhere :/ |
| 01:26:37 | | Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.) |
| 01:28:04 | TheSeven | so in theory we should get an 8.6mA gain from boosting |
| 01:28:30 | | Quit factor (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:29:06 | TheSeven | er, FAIL! |
| 01:30:24 | | Nick amee2k is now known as LoR3Z (~thomas@ve504.cugnet.net) |
| 01:30:43 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29268): iPod Classic: Do boosting the right way round ;-) |
| 01:30:54 | TheSeven | at 33.0-33.5mA idle now |
| 01:31:28 | | Nick LoR3Z is now known as amee2k (~thomas@ve504.cugnet.net) |
| 01:31:36 | TheSeven | playing mp3 at ~35mA |
| 01:32:23 | TheSeven | ~45MHz in use |
| 01:32:39 | TheSeven | (but the buffering debug screen probably accounts for quite a bit of that) |
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| 01:33:50 | TheSeven | main menu vs. WPS makes a ~1mA difference |
| 01:34:06 | S_a_i_n_t | that's be screen updates? |
| 01:34:11 | S_a_i_n_t | *that'd |
| 01:34:17 | TheSeven | probably |
| 01:34:33 | CIA-70 | r29268 build result: 5 errors, 0 warnings (theseven committed) |
| 01:35:03 | S_a_i_n_t | if you're using iLike, it'll probably be using the most whilst scrolling text, and/or when the "HDD" anim is on ;) |
| 01:35:21 | S_a_i_n_t | but that's a pretty cheap theme to run. |
| 01:35:48 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29269): Fix red (remove accidentally committed debugging code) |
| 01:35:59 | S_a_i_n_t | I've made silly themes that make a marked decrease in battery life. |
| 01:36:43 | TheSeven | S_a_i_n_t: the emCORE boot menu also makes quite a bit of difference |
| 01:37:03 | TheSeven | ~6.5mA more current while it's scrolling |
| 01:37:11 | S_a_i_n_t | wow |
| 01:37:22 | S_a_i_n_t | "meh...it's pretty" ;) |
| 01:37:40 | TheSeven | 80% of that not being the actual rendering, but pusing the data to the LCD! |
| 01:38:18 | S_a_i_n_t | ...ok, wow. |
| 01:38:41 | S_a_i_n_t | but, it's so pretty. :D |
| 01:39:35 | CIA-70 | r29269 build result: All green |
| 01:41:04 | TheSeven | S_a_i_n_t: but on the other hand, the headphones volume makes like ~13mA difference |
| 01:41:25 | TheSeven | so apple can't even meet their 36h in theory, if you're listening at full volume |
| 01:41:42 | TheSeven | and why on earth is there very noticable clipping at -5dB!? |
| 01:42:03 | * | TheSeven remembers not getting any clipping up to 0dB on the classic |
| 01:42:25 | TheSeven | er, wait. that would be really bad... |
| 01:43:59 | TheSeven | apple might have done a really bad cheat here |
| 01:46:29 | S_a_i_n_t | I am pretty sure that the runtime isn't measured at "full volume". |
| 01:47:02 | S_a_i_n_t | I've tried to do the math there on a few targets and it seemed sceptical that it was measured with full draw at the ehadphones. |
| 01:47:50 | * | TheSeven currently wonders where the codec gets its power from, and if it might have been hit by some undervolting |
| 01:49:49 | | Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org) |
| 01:52:09 | TheSeven | something can't be right |
| 01:52:33 | TheSeven | if i power down that LDO completely, the codec doesn't respond |
| 01:52:43 | TheSeven | at 0.9V, it responds, but there is no sound |
| 01:52:52 | TheSeven | at 1.0V, everything seems to be working |
| 01:53:22 | TheSeven | apple drives it at 1.8V, there there is no noticable difference in audio quality or the clipping limit |
| 01:53:31 | TheSeven | (always seems to be around -6dB) |
| 01:53:59 | | Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:54:00 | | Quit liar (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 01:54:16 | TheSeven | so what the heck is going on here? |
| 01:54:29 | TheSeven | is that the logic power supply, and the audio power supply is taken from somewhere else? |
| 01:54:42 | TheSeven | and if yes, from where? how did it get hit by undervolting? |
| 01:54:56 | TheSeven | it isn't taken from the memory or LCD regulator, i've already checked that |
| 01:55:18 | TheSeven | the only other thing i've undervolted is the CPU core, which is in a voltage range where i really doubt that the codec could be abusing it |
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| 02:20:44 | Unhelpful | kugel: you found very little information regarding embedded album art in ogg vorbis because vorbis tags are not a standardized metadata format, they're a labelling format and anything you do with them is ad-hoc. |
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| 02:57:25 | S_a_i_n_t | Any idea what information to display on a .wps when there's no AA present, and no next track present, keeping in mind that track, album, artist, genre, year, bitrate/VBR, codec and sample rate are already displayed? |
| 02:58:37 | S_a_i_n_t | Having both no AA *and* no next track is reasonably unlikely...I suppose, but it looks barron enough to warrant displaying more info in the event it does happen, and adding another conditional UI viewport to center the info onscreen in the case needlessly complicates the code. |
| 02:59:04 | S_a_i_n_t | it's simpler for me to just add some "filler info", but I'm not sure what...as I still wish it to be of value. |
| 02:59:48 | * | S_a_i_n_t requests Llorean's analytical mind. |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:45 | JdGordon| | how about a massive "PLaylist finished"! splash? |
| 03:00:54 | JdGordon| | or there is a good spot for your easter egg |
| 03:01:08 | S_a_i_n_t | haha ;) |
| 03:01:41 | S_a_i_n_t | no, I'd like to base the easter egg around horrible dsp/eq settings. |
| 03:01:44 | JdGordon| | I fail to see the correlation between aa being present and next track being avilable |
| 03:02:12 | S_a_i_n_t | there isn't one, but, in those instances the screen is left barron. |
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| 03:02:38 | S_a_i_n_t | no AA, and no next track info...on a pretty large screen. just looks crap. |
| 03:02:52 | S_a_i_n_t | So I want to suppliment more info about the present track. |
| 03:02:56 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: I think something like "JdGordon" suggested that makes it clear the playlist is about to end might be nice. |
| 03:03:30 | S_a_i_n_t | there's already a "X of X in Playlist" thing. |
| 03:03:36 | Llorean | But you'd want a conditional for the "move to next folder" option so that you could conditionally display something like "no more files" vs "folder is about to change" |
| 03:03:42 | | Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 03:03:43 | | Nick Xerion_ is now known as Xerion (~xerion@5419A4D7.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 03:03:54 | Llorean | The X of X thing isn't always accurate if you've got folder based playback going. :) |
| 03:03:55 | S_a_i_n_t | which is smart enough to know when there's only one track, so doesn't do 1 of 1, etc.) |
| 03:05:47 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmm...perhaps I could display time and date info. |
| 03:05:57 | S_a_i_n_t | that doesn't pop up in the .wps anywhere else. |
| 03:06:38 | S_a_i_n_t | I really just need "something" to fill a gap, as that is simpler than re-writing code to make another conditional UI viewport just for this instance to center the info. |
| 03:07:05 | S_a_i_n_t | but, that would be the "smart" thing to do, but the screen would still look very empty. |
| 03:07:14 | | Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 03:09:00 | Llorean | A large font countdown timer to the end of the playlist? :-P |
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| 03:10:11 | S_a_i_n_t | in the case of No AA, it already uses 35pt font with vastly increaded ascent and descent, and it still looks small ;) |
| 03:10:22 | S_a_i_n_t | *increased. |
| 03:10:42 | S_a_i_n_t | I'd need to make a larger font by hand just for this case. |
| 03:11:55 | Llorean | I think having a clock / date only show up when the playlist is about to end seems a little bit odd. It's a situation where the user, if they ever see it, isn't going to see it very often in the future and wonder if it's a bug or something. |
| 03:12:07 | Llorean | I actually like the date/time to be visible all the time anyway |
| 03:12:30 | Llorean | Maybe you could alternate date/time and next track info, and then just show date/time if there's no next track? |
| 03:13:07 | S_a_i_n_t | So do I, but without going to the extent of recreating a larger "built in" (imatation thereof) status bar, there's no place for me to include the clock/date. |
| 03:13:22 | S_a_i_n_t | If I did use the built in bar, I could not read it on device. |
| 03:13:54 | Llorean | What about alternating sublines with date/time alternating with next track info, so that the user's used to seeing it down there. Then the lack of next track info delivers a bit more of a message. |
| 03:14:18 | Choicefresh | hey, i asked this question yesterday but went to sleep before i got an answer −− if i upgrade from the stable release to the current build, will it work with more accessories? |
| 03:14:21 | S_a_i_n_t | Hmmm, that's a reasonable idea. |
| 03:14:39 | Llorean | Choicefresh: Probably not, I don't recall seeing any significant changes to accessory support since the last release. |
| 03:14:43 | S_a_i_n_t | Choicefresh: Unlikely. |
| 03:15:03 | S_a_i_n_t | There's usually no real reason to *not* use the current build, though. |
| 03:15:04 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: I haven't seen your theme, so I don't know how bad that'll look. :) |
| 03:15:28 | S_a_i_n_t | I'll post some screenshots shortly. |
| 03:16:20 | | Quit thegeek_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:16:31 | S_a_i_n_t | it's kind of an "enhanced cabbie" |
| 03:16:42 | Choicefresh | Is there anywhere where I can find a list of differences or a changelog between the release and the current build? I think I'm pretty satisfied with the release, except for battery life and accessory compatibility problems. |
| 03:17:19 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:17:30 | S_a_i_n_t | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MajorChanges |
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| 03:22:02 | S_a_i_n_t | I see we have embedded AA in SVN now...does anyone know the order of preference over embedded vs. "usual" AA? |
| 03:22:41 | S_a_i_n_t | I mean, will tracks that have embedded art suddenly start displaying that in preference over my "Folder.jpg" etc.? |
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| 03:24:42 | S_a_i_n_t | I think it would also be nice if searching for/using embedded AA could be disabled by the user. |
| 03:25:44 | S_a_i_n_t | So that those that maintain their own album art aren't hit with a needless check for embedded art. (I assume these checks would add up over time) |
| 03:26:56 | Strife89 | S_a_i_n_t: It prefers the embedded AA. |
| 03:27:16 | S_a_i_n_t | aaaaaaw! that sucks! |
| 03:27:48 | S_a_i_n_t | well...I guess it's all good, but, I have to make sure to strip embedded AA in this case. |
| 03:28:15 | S_a_i_n_t | I find per-track AA simply wasteful. |
| 03:30:17 | S_a_i_n_t | for large libraries, embedded art (especially particularly large images) can add a lot of space back if removed. |
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| 03:34:02 | S_a_i_n_t | I assume the manuals haven't been built yet to reflect the change in supporting embedded AA? |
| 03:39:04 | Choicefresh | so SVN is the changes in the current build? |
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| 03:49:23 | S_a_i_n_t | Choicefresh: Correct. |
| 03:50:19 | S_a_i_n_t | if you're using the latest release build, then "Major changes since version 3.7 (in SVN)" is what concerns you re: updating |
| 03:51:33 | Llorean | S_a_i_n_t: Did the patch include a manual patch? |
| 03:51:44 | Llorean | Did the *AA* patch... |
| 03:52:20 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: JdGordon|: Strife89: froggyman: others: http://imgur.com/fOuUE <−− screenshots (random) of my "enhanced-touch-cabbie) |
| 03:52:43 | S_a_i_n_t | *top right clearly shows the "barron no AA/No next track" case. |
| 03:53:04 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: yes, it does include a manual patch. |
| 03:53:05 | JdGordon| | those arrows really look horrible |
| 03:53:19 | Llorean | What *are* those arrows? |
| 03:53:21 | S_a_i_n_t | come up with a better solution ;) |
| 03:53:35 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: next/Prev/ffwd/rwd |
| 03:53:44 | Llorean | Ah, touchscreen. |
| 03:53:47 | S_a_i_n_t | indeed. |
| 03:54:03 | JdGordon| | S_a_i_n_t: honestly, the way svn cabbie does it is better than your way |
| 03:54:08 | JdGordon| | those arrows just look hideous |
| 03:54:09 | Llorean | I'd just shift the AA to a side, and have a vertical column of "control" icons on the right of it. |
| 03:54:12 | Llorean | Rather than centered AA |
| 03:54:14 | JdGordon| | (nott hat i like the hidden controls) |
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| 03:54:29 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon|: I really dislike that popup. |
| 03:54:48 | Strife89 | S_a_i_n_t: That's NICE. |
| 03:54:49 | JdGordon| | as do i |
| 03:54:50 | S_a_i_n_t | though, I'm thinking about only displaying these arrows when the screen is touched. |
| 03:54:56 | Llorean | I also don't really like the large, widely spaced font in the menu. That spacing just looks really awkward to me. |
| 03:55:08 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: it is necessary. |
| 03:55:14 | Llorean | For what? |
| 03:55:17 | S_a_i_n_t | for "touch friendlyness" |
| 03:55:49 | Llorean | You can't make the letters fill the whole space using a larger font, though? |
| 03:56:05 | Llorean | The lines can be just as big, just actually "full", right? |
| 03:56:13 | JdGordon| | S_a_i_n_t: also, the QS really looks like ass :p |
| 03:56:21 | S_a_i_n_t | if the font is that large, then menu entries get get off and need to scrool...which looks crap. |
| 03:56:32 | S_a_i_n_t | the added ascent/descent is really the only option. |
| 03:56:57 | Llorean | "looks crap" vs "looks crap" |
| 03:57:04 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon|: you know why? because you need to add quickscreen to %cs ;) |
| 03:57:13 | JdGordon| | i know :) |
| 03:57:25 | * | JdGordon| might just do that now |
| 03:57:27 | Llorean | How touch unfriendly is it really? |
| 03:57:34 | S_a_i_n_t | very. |
| 03:57:57 | Llorean | It sounds like our touch precision is pretty bad then? |
| 03:58:00 | S_a_i_n_t | even with the lists that wide, it's still hard to hit a single option without a stylus |
| 03:58:11 | S_a_i_n_t | and no, the screen is fine in the OF. |
| 03:58:17 | S_a_i_n_t | I believe the failing is in RB |
| 03:58:22 | Llorean | As I said, *our* precision. |
| 03:58:38 | S_a_i_n_t | touchscreen is usable, but hardly "precise"/ |
| 03:58:42 | Llorean | How does touch work in a list like that. |
| 03:58:55 | Llorean | Can you hold your finger down, move it around, see it live-highlight what you hover over, then release to select? |
| 03:58:56 | S_a_i_n_t | how do you mean? |
| 03:59:17 | S_a_i_n_t | no, it only highlights the "last touched" list entry. |
| 03:59:24 | Llorean | Ah, a little frustrating. |
| 03:59:34 | Llorean | So you can't see what you're highlighting without actually invoking it? |
| 03:59:40 | S_a_i_n_t | if you're scrolling, it doesn't highlight what's under your finger...unfortunately. |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:56 | S_a_i_n_t | holding your finger down and scrolling just moves the list up/down...it doesn't actually hightlight any selection, no. |
| 04:01:31 | * | JdGordon| thinks the huge line height looks pretty ugly, but agrees that when its the font height its not easy to use |
| 04:01:41 | Llorean | It'd be nice if your delta was low enough, it treated your finger as a pointer, and only scrolled if you moved quickly, or moved to the "end" of the visible list in either direction. |
| 04:01:48 | S_a_i_n_t | the list item touched before scrolling is briefly highlighted, but the action of scrolling cancels the hightlight. |
| 04:02:10 | JdGordon| | S_a_i_n_t: why dont you just invisibly split the top half off the wps into a |<< and >>| button? |
| 04:02:22 | | Quit panni_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 04:02:29 | Llorean | Would it be possible to get the font at least a little bit larger. So maybe only long menu items scroll? Basically, get it as large as possible without scrolling "Resume Playback" |
| 04:02:32 | Llorean | Or "Now Playing" |
| 04:02:34 | Llorean | whichever is longer. |
| 04:02:48 | S_a_i_n_t | I thought about that...but I'm not a fan of touch areas that aren't obviously marked, or "buttons". |
| 04:03:24 | S_a_i_n_t | Llorean: there's lots of longer menu entries than those ;) |
| 04:03:41 | Llorean | Yes, but they're seen less often. |
| 04:03:46 | Llorean | Whereas that screen is seen *constantly* |
| 04:03:48 | Llorean | As is the files list. |
| 04:03:48 | S_a_i_n_t | the height the font is now, almost no menu entry needs to scroll...I can use the lists, and it's perfectly readable on device. |
| 04:04:01 | Llorean | So having them not look like crap vertically is better than not looking like crap on less often seen screens horizontally |
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| 04:05:24 | S_a_i_n_t | I personally think that the added ascent/descent looks better than a larger font with list items spaced closely together, but, I add "personally" as I realise it's quite subjective. |
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| 04:06:01 | S_a_i_n_t | lists in the Andoid UI also have a similar sytle. |
| 04:06:19 | S_a_i_n_t | (lots of room between list entries) |
| 04:06:42 | * | Llorean shrugs. |
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| 04:07:22 | S_a_i_n_t | I did try the same font with no added ascent of descent, and it looked crap...I also tried a slightly larger font, with less ascent/descent added...and (to me) it also looked crap. |
| 04:07:29 | Llorean | Are you considering posting this as an optional theme, or is this proposed as a default theme version for the Android devices? |
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| 04:08:24 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm considering this as an optional theme, but I am hoping to create a version of it that could in theory become the default for touch devices of this resolution. |
| 04:08:32 | Llorean | If it's your own thing, I don't really care much and was just offering my opinion on how it looks. Style is subjective, and it's yours. If it's a potential update to the default for touch use, other than having a lot of new features that should be ported to other ones, the spacing isn't in line with the current design and changes in the actual aesthetic need discussion. |
| 04:08:52 | Llorean | So, for your version - fine. For a default - probably worth trying to make it "look" more like the other Rockbox cabbies. |
| 04:09:45 | S_a_i_n_t | I'd rather go to the extent of finding a middle ground...and updating the existing touch cabbies to look more like it ;) |
| 04:10:09 | S_a_i_n_t | and yes, I would like to port some of the newer touch features to existing touch cabbies |
| 04:10:16 | Llorean | As I said, you'd have to talk about actually changing the chosen default theme design then. |
| 04:11:34 | S_a_i_n_t | Strife89: most convincing response I've had so far, btw, thanks ;) |
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| 05:21:38 | Strife89 | S_a_i_n_t: Is that for the Android port, or something else? Whatever it's for, I'd get it JUST to use that theme |
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| 05:22:22 | Raptors | Are there any devs online? |
| 05:22:33 | Raptors | Is there a version for the Fuze+ in the works? |
| 05:22:45 | Strife89 | Not at the moment, IIRC |
| 05:23:06 | Raptors | :( The hardware looks sick but people are complaining about the fireware |
| 05:23:26 | Strife89 | If someone gets interested enough, work may begin one of these days. |
| 05:23:33 | Strife89 | Ports take time, though. |
| 05:24:39 | Strife89 | Personally, I'm happy with an 8GB Fuze and a big microSD |
| 05:25:06 | Raptors | I like my fuze too but I want a better screen |
| 05:25:48 | Strife89 | There IS an iPod Classic port in the works, but it's considered Unusable right now. |
| 05:26:28 | Raptors | I am anti-apple so I'm not going to get that |
| 05:26:39 | Strife89 | If you own an Android device with a good screen (and are willing to use an Unusable-grade port), there's also that. |
| 05:26:48 | Raptors | I guess I'll hope someone will make it... |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:52:58 | S_a_i_n_t | JdGordon|: jsyk, I have already prepared the "Quickscreen" graphic for the theme titlebar...so... ;) |
| 06:53:37 | JdGordon| | oh have you? |
| 06:54:18 | S_a_i_n_t | yes, I did it after: |
| 06:54:19 | S_a_i_n_t | [15:57] <JdGordon|> i know :) |
| 06:54:20 | S_a_i_n_t | [15:57] * JdGordon| might just do that now |
| 06:54:21 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK S_a_i_n_t |
| 06:54:21 | S_a_i_n_t | :P |
| 06:56:20 | JdGordon| | so... guess what!?! |
| 06:56:25 | CIA-70 | New commit by jethead71 (r29270): buffering: Don't execute move-handle-ony case if handle is of metadata type (atomic) and must be kept fully buffered. Manage handle corruption guard ... |
| 06:57:01 | S_a_i_n_t | I tried looking at a "better" way to do %cs, so things like that guy on the forum was talking about with a tag that goes true for X after entering a specific screen...but I couldn't really understand how to add other screens to the currecnt scheme. :/ |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:16 | CIA-70 | r29270 build result: All green |
| 07:01:06 | JdGordon| | S_a_i_n_t: if a proper screen system happens, and enough screens are fixed for it, then a "just got to this screen" tag would be trivial |
| 07:01:19 | JdGordon| | but i have a feeling it isnt very useful except for fm and wps |
| 07:01:55 | S_a_i_n_t | I imagine it could be used in the .sbs, but...only for "bling". |
| 07:02:05 | S_a_i_n_t | it would add little practical value there. |
| 07:03:57 | S_a_i_n_t | who should I bug about a syntactical error in the manual? |
| 07:04:24 | JdGordon| | AlexP: or pixelma prob |
| 07:05:18 | JdGordon| | syntactical, you mean bad english or latex? |
| 07:06:02 | S_a_i_n_t | haha...nevermind, I only imagined I was looking at the manual. apparently I clicked the wrong link and it's CustomWPS instead. |
| 07:06:08 | S_a_i_n_t | I'll change it myself ;) |
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| 08:01:06 | Choicefresh | derp. i'm trying to install a theme onto my rockbox via rockboxutility, and it seems to install correctly, but it doesn't show up in the rockbox theme list nor in the rockbox info panel in rockboxutility. |
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| 08:03:11 | LinusN | gevaerts: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linus_nielsen_feltzing/5432506509/ |
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| 08:39:39 | Choicefresh | any ideas on how to fix the problem i'm having? |
| 08:43:05 | Choicefresh | i guess i'll figure it out tomorrow. good night |
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| 09:20:46 | sideral | Are genre tags (as stored in id3->genre_string) guaranteed to be single words, or is it possible to have multiple genres in there (and if so, comma- or space-separated)? |
| 09:21:36 | Zagor | the genre tag is chaos. expect anything. |
| 09:21:46 | Zagor | or, more common, nothing :-) |
| 09:22:29 | sideral | Alright Zagor, thanks! That's what I was afraid of... |
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| 09:27:14 | Slasheri | sideral: many genre names contain multiple words anyway |
| 09:28:17 | Slasheri | i think there are thousands of different genres, subgenres and so on |
| 09:29:07 | B4gder | and two people won't even agree in which genre a single song would be in |
| 09:29:13 | Slasheri | indeed :) |
| 09:29:15 | B4gder | genre is just completely broken |
| 09:29:23 | JdGordon1 | most songs dont fit in only one genre |
| 09:29:36 | JdGordon1 | i mean, they change genre mid track |
| 09:29:59 | sideral | if there are multiple genres, how are they separated typically? Commas? |
| 09:30:02 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 09:30:07 | B4gder | and for people who are into that particular music style, they would still miss the accurate or precise genre they'd want |
| 09:30:11 | sideral | Can there be a space in a genre name? |
| 09:30:36 | n1s | sideral: yes |
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| 09:31:46 | Zagor | "christian rock" or some such |
| 09:31:50 | Zagor | "death metal" |
| 09:31:55 | Slasheri | sideral: it depends how those words are separated. Such as Folk Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Nu Metal and so on |
| 09:32:18 | LinusN | petur's h120 finally runs rockbox again!!! |
| 09:32:26 | Zagor | LinusN: yay! |
| 09:33:23 | sideral | My questions relate to Llorean's idea of matching only whole genre names with autoresume. My idea would be to take the search string, do a strstr on id3->genre_string, and then look for non-alpha characters left and right of the match. |
| 09:34:41 | sideral | do a search string "death metal" would match "podcast,death metal" but not "death metallic" |
| 09:34:51 | sideral | s/do/so/ |
| 09:35:33 | Zagor | I would say using genre for _anything_ is bound to result in dissappointment |
| 09:35:41 | B4gder | yes |
| 09:35:54 | B4gder | nobody uses genre |
| 09:36:03 | B4gder | or everybody sets their own |
| 09:36:07 | B4gder | its just a mess |
| 09:36:12 | Zagor | except for a very small section of really anal users who write every tag on every track themselves |
| 09:36:44 | sideral | I believe there are quite a few people who define their collection of podcasts to be the files who have a (manually set) "podcast" genre |
| 09:36:55 | B4gder | I doubt that |
| 09:37:00 | sideral | I think some podcasting software offers doing that automatically |
| 09:37:05 | B4gder | I think most people just download podcasts |
| 09:37:16 | B4gder | and if the genre is set, then sure it works |
| 09:37:21 | Zagor | I think path is generally much safer than genre |
| 09:37:24 | sideral | But I think you're right, that might be useless complexity |
| 09:37:34 | Zagor | and still rather unsafe |
| 09:37:39 | sideral | and all podcasts end up in the same folder anyway |
| 09:38:51 | Slasheri | sideral: if you are planning to add some genre searching to the db, i would instead suggest of adding one 4 byte integer to every track, that could match the track to 32 different "genres" or whatever sections user wants to put the track in |
| 09:39:30 | Slasheri | then user could give names to each of those 32 sections and for every track use a multi selection to specify those sections where the track should be in (from wps directly) |
| 09:39:44 | Slasheri | i would like that kind of searching capability |
| 09:39:58 | sideral | Slasheri: nice idea, but that wasn't the goal. I'm trying to improve the resume-on-automatic-track-change filter |
| 09:40:04 | Slasheri | ok |
| 09:42:03 | sideral | I think I'll just allow configuring a list of directories (with full path names, as suggested by Llorean) and get rid of the genre-matching stuff |
| 09:42:28 | sideral | I love discussions that end up chopping features :) |
| 09:43:25 | sideral | On a related note: |
| 09:43:25 | sideral | When I change the setting to match complete words only, I'd like to rename it from “Custom path/genre substrings (comma-separated)†to “Custom paths (comma-separated)â€. If I manage to do this before the 3.8 feature freeze and before any translator has catched up with the previous name, can I just change the language string or should I properly deprecate it? |
| 09:43:25 | sideral | (I assume that each deprecated string takes up some resources in the final binary; let me know if this is not the case.) |
| 09:44:24 | sideral | s/complete words/dirnames/ |
| 09:48:42 | n1s | a deprecated string takes 3 bytes IIRC |
| 09:49:38 | n1s | since the meaning changes i think deprecating and creating a new string is nicer but it's not a big deal |
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| 09:50:48 | Zagor | for such a recent commit I don't think changing the meaning is a big deal |
| 09:51:55 | n1s | did any translations pick it up? |
| 09:52:02 | sideral | not yet |
| 09:52:12 | n1s | then it's fine to just change it |
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| 09:54:57 | sideral | Cool. Thanks guys! |
| 09:54:57 | sideral | I'll do the lang string change right away (before I adapt the implementation) to minimize the risk of anyone picking it up, and follow up with the implementation tonight after some testing. (The new string matches the current implementation as well (as it does strictly more then the new implementation), so there will be no inconsistency. |
| 09:55:08 | sideral | ) |
| 09:55:25 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-206-240-131.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 09:56:45 | wodz | I think I understand how rockchip 'update' firmware format. The code to handle this in SDK is a *BIG* mess. |
| 09:57:22 | wodz | s/how// |
| 09:57:33 | sideral | Ah, but I'll use "directory" rather than "path" as that seems to be the RB standard name |
| 09:57:37 | Zagor | wodz: nice |
| 09:58:25 | | Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 09:58:59 | wodz | Zagor: Do we care much about 'clean room' reverse engineering aproach? |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:00:23 | | Quit JdGordon| (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 10:00:25 | Zagor | wodz: we care very much about not copying any code |
| 10:00:37 | wodz | that is clear |
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| 10:00:50 | Zagor | however reading the sdk code and doing a clean reimplementation is not a problem |
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| 10:00:56 | wodz | Zagor: ok |
| 10:03:09 | sideral | Quick question to a native speaker: In a menu "Resume on automatic track change", does "Custom directories (comma-separated)" sound acceptable and self-describing enough? |
| 10:03:49 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 10:03:49 | * | S_a_i_n_t doesn't grasp what the "comma seperated" is for. |
| 10:04:17 | sideral | you can specify multiple directories, separated by commas |
| 10:04:59 | S_a_i_n_t | is this a list of dirs that will always resume? |
| 10:05:40 | sideral | It's the list of dirs in which a track will be resumed even if it's played as the next track in automatic track change |
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| 10:06:38 | sideral | manual track selection will always attempt to resume all files when autoresume has been enabled |
| 10:06:41 | S_a_i_n_t | that seems a terribly obscure setting to me ;) |
| 10:07:02 | sideral | aaahh |
| 10:08:04 | S_a_i_n_t | if manual track selection will always resume...then, what's the need for this selection of folders? |
| 10:08:23 | S_a_i_n_t | if a resumable track is encountered in a playlist, is it *not* resumed automatically? |
| 10:08:37 | sideral | by default, no |
| 10:08:45 | S_a_i_n_t | all these resume related settings are getting the better of me...it used to be so simple ;) |
| 10:08:56 | sideral | you can enable it globally or customize the dirs in which this will happen |
| 10:09:20 | S_a_i_n_t | wouldn't it be better to have a key file for this, than a setting? |
| 10:09:27 | S_a_i_n_t | IMO, it would. |
| 10:09:45 | S_a_i_n_t | similar to database.ignore/unignore |
| 10:09:51 | sideral | this is to support playlists of podcasts as well as playlists of audiobook chapters |
| 10:09:59 | S_a_i_n_t | "always.resume" or similar. |
| 10:10:19 | S_a_i_n_t | it seems to me that the folders would be relatively "set and forget". |
| 10:10:25 | sideral | Saint: Yes, that has been suggested a few times. The problem is that we'd have to look for this file for each track playback |
| 10:10:40 | S_a_i_n_t | is that a problem? |
| 10:10:56 | sideral | I think so |
| 10:11:21 | S_a_i_n_t | well, it's only going to look for this file if you specifically enable resume, no? |
| 10:11:31 | S_a_i_n_t | so, you're only taking a hit if you've chosen to. |
| 10:11:57 | S_a_i_n_t | iiuc it wouldn't affect those that don;t use it with a random spinup/read. |
| 10:12:15 | sideral | I think it's better to not take that hit, and to configure it in the configuration settings where it belongs IMHO |
| 10:12:53 | S_a_i_n_t | I just don't think it's something that will get set enough to warrant crowding the menu. |
| 10:13:28 | sideral | I agree the performance hit wouldn't be too serious, as noting the existence of this file probably could be cached pretty well |
| 10:13:29 | S_a_i_n_t | I think placing a file manually in the chosen dirs is a rather elegant approach, actually. |
| 10:13:59 | * | S_a_i_n_t shrugs |
| 10:14:18 | sideral | I think users want to find all settings belonging to a feature in one place. |
| 10:14:32 | S_a_i_n_t | how are the dirs entered into this "comma seperated list"? |
| 10:15:00 | sideral | with the text editor currently. AFAIK we don't have a UI for selecting (multiple) dirs |
| 10:15:04 | S_a_i_n_t | if it involves the vkeyboard, I can't see it getting *too* much use...that thing is a bitch. |
| 10:15:18 | S_a_i_n_t | another reason why I think a keyfile is more elegant. |
| 10:15:27 | S_a_i_n_t | manually typing dir names is just...painful. |
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| 10:15:48 | S_a_i_n_t | users will probably edit the .cfg manually anyway...which is why I don't see placing a kayfile as a big deal. |
| 10:15:56 | S_a_i_n_t | *keyfile |
| 10:16:51 | S_a_i_n_t | basically, not to discredit you...but I just see it as needlessly complicated to do something that could be done "under the hood". |
| 10:16:56 | sideral | I understand you reasoning. But to me the keyfile approach is inferior because it makes the feature less discoverable |
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| 10:17:11 | sideral | s/you/your/ |
| 10:17:32 | S_a_i_n_t | I think the setting is aimed more towards those that would be comfortable doing it this way...but, that's subjective I guess. |
| 10:18:16 | | Quit mc2739 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:18:21 | S_a_i_n_t | If I had to type dir entries manually to achieve this in a working state, I'm (personally) just going to say "stuff this" and edit the config manually. |
| 10:18:41 | S_a_i_n_t | I'd be wlling to guess I wouldn't be the only one. |
| 10:18:44 | sideral | Which is cool, at least you have discovered the config option :) |
| 10:20:52 | sideral | And to make it more discoverable, I'm looking for a good description. You seem to think "Custom directories (comma-separated)" does not cut it? :) |
| 10:21:26 | S_a_i_n_t | I think that it will be very hard to accurately describe what this does without it reading like a novel ;) |
| 10:22:00 | S_a_i_n_t | to me, "Custom directories (comma-separated)" gives no indication of what it actually does. |
| 10:22:22 | S_a_i_n_t | perhaps it may, in taken with the context of the menu it is located within, but on it's own...no. |
| 10:22:33 | sideral | In a menu "Resume on automatic track change", mind you |
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| 10:24:42 | S_a_i_n_t | I think it's one of those setting where it's not really possible to give it a name that will clarify it's function without already knowing of it's existence and operation. |
| 10:25:15 | sideral | Perhaps "In custom directories only" would be better, with a default that makes it obvious there can be a comma-separated list, such as "/podcast,/podcasts" |
| 10:25:18 | S_a_i_n_t | "Custom directories (comma-separated)" is as good as anything I guess, but if you've no idea what it does it's incredibly vague. |
| 10:26:03 | S_a_i_n_t | how does "/podcast,/podcasts" make it obvious there's a comma seperated list? |
| 10:26:15 | sideral | there's a comma in it? :) |
| 10:26:33 | S_a_i_n_t | ah...crappy font, couldn't see it ;) |
| 10:26:54 | sideral | :) |
| 10:27:57 | S_a_i_n_t | If you do put in an example dir(s), make sure to name them so that they won't be likely to apply resume to a dir that already exists without the users knowledge of the setting. |
| 10:28:10 | S_a_i_n_t | "/foo,/bar,/baz" etc. |
| 10:28:36 | S_a_i_n_t | as opposed to "/music,/podcasts" |
| 10:29:10 | sideral | Well, by default the setting is off, and canceling the text editor does not change it. So I think a useful default would be good. And it does actually make sense to enable this for podcasts only |
| 10:29:40 | gevaerts | LinusN: thanks! |
| 10:30:13 | S_a_i_n_t | sideral: though, you can't really assume to know what dir structure podcasts will be in. |
| 10:30:25 | S_a_i_n_t | they won't necessarily be in /podcasts. |
| 10:30:44 | S_a_i_n_t | I think an example dir is better to be just that, an example unlikely to exist. |
| 10:31:02 | sideral | Right. That's one of the reasons the setting is off by default, and the user is put to the text editor right away when selecting it |
| 10:31:45 | gevaerts | AlexP, soap: can you ban maxmara1? |
| 10:34:25 | sideral | Saint: Hmm, I'll ponder this some more throughout the day, but I think I tend towards giving a useful default. |
| 10:34:52 | sideral | Anyway, thanks for having this discussion, it was extremely useful! |
| 10:38:02 | CIA-70 | New commit by sideral (r29271): autoresume: Simplify configuration option for resume on automatic ... |
| 10:38:37 | sideral | (as I said, this is the quick lang string fix only, the implementation will be cleaned up tonight) |
| 10:42:13 | CIA-70 | r29271 build result: All green |
| 10:48:07 | | Quit JdGord (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 10:48:45 | | Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@p4FE8ECC7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:52:33 | n1s | sideral: what happens if the path contains a comma? |
| 10:54:08 | sideral | n1s: you won't be able to match such paths with this feature |
| 10:54:37 | n1s | isn't it better to use a char that isn't allowed in filenames? |
| 10:54:49 | n1s | use it as a separator |
| 10:55:55 | | Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 10:56:13 | | Join sprotte24 [0] (~sprotte24@p4FDFCC02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:57:03 | sideral | n1s: that's a good idea, now that I've removed "comma-separated" from the description (which I liked better than "semicolon-separated", for example, because it was shorter and better understandable) |
| 10:57:31 | sideral | which character do you reckon? |
| 10:57:43 | sideral | is ":" still illegal on FAT? |
| 10:58:37 | n1s | yes |
| 10:58:45 | n1s | i'd go with : or | |
| 10:59:16 | n1s | static const char invalid_chars[] = "\"*/:<>?\\|"; |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:05 | sideral | So that's why copying my .ogg albums over to my MP3 player always chokes up on funny names... FAT sucks ;) |
| 11:01:10 | sideral | OK, ":" it is |
| 11:01:17 | Zagor | : is a pretty standard path separator |
| 11:01:49 | sideral | On Unix, yes. Not sure what Windows uses these days |
| 11:02:18 | Zagor | oh, they use ; |
| 11:02:38 | Zagor | right, duh, since they use : for drive name. |
| 11:02:45 | sideral | :) |
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| 11:04:26 | | Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) |
| 11:05:59 | sprotte24 | Hi, |
| 11:06:01 | sprotte24 | I just bought a Sandisk Sansa Fuze. I am interested in changing to the rockbox firmware. |
| 11:06:02 | sprotte24 | My question: |
| 11:06:04 | sprotte24 | The original Sandisk firmware uses nice pictures for the main menu options like "Music", " "FM radion", etc. |
| 11:06:05 | sprotte24 | I don´t find this in the rockbox manual. Does this mean that the rockbox does not have such niche menues for selection? |
| 11:06:19 | Zagor | rockbox looks very different, yes |
| 11:07:02 | sprotte24 | I did not find any main menu picture in the rockbox manual? |
| 11:07:18 | sprotte24 | only text screens? |
| 11:07:30 | Zagor | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansafuze/rockbox-buildch5.html#x8-830005 |
| 11:07:59 | Zagor | the rockbox GUI is not icon focused, no. it's built around menus. |
| 11:09:29 | sprotte24 | thx. why not, do pictures waste too much memory space? |
| 11:10:00 | sprotte24 | pictures are much better to recognice than litte text lines. |
| 11:10:07 | Zagor | not at all |
| 11:10:16 | Zagor | icons always have to be explained by text |
| 11:10:18 | n1s | sprotte24: that is of course you opinion |
| 11:10:24 | n1s | your |
| 11:10:31 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29272): iPod Nano 2G: Fix current leak through clickwheel GPIOs when clickwheel is powered down |
| 11:10:53 | Zagor | and we have some pretty complex items in our menus that you'd have to scratch your head for a while to come up with an icon for |
| 11:11:07 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 11:11:52 | Zagor | but the main thing is that we're programmers, not graphics artists. when we add a new feature, adding a text menu entry is infinitely easier and quicker than drawing a new icon. |
| 11:11:59 | * | TheSeven expects r29272 to add another 5% battery runtime :) |
| 11:12:50 | sprotte24 | Is there any risk to install rockbox on my Sandisk Sansa Fuze (firmware V01.02.26A)? |
| 11:13:34 | | Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow) |
| 11:13:38 | sprotte24 | Are there experiencesd that a user cannoot remove rockbox if he do not linke rockbox? |
| 11:13:48 | sprotte24 | like |
| 11:13:57 | CIA-70 | r29272 build result: 10 errors, 0 warnings (theseven committed) |
| 11:14:11 | Zagor | sprotte24: no, it's very safe |
| 11:14:22 | n1s | sprotte24: you can remove it, and even dual boot when rockbox is installed, the manual explains these things |
| 11:15:00 | TheSeven | but, of course, as usual, no warranty for anything, you do everything at your own risk |
| 11:15:39 | sprotte24 | I can sitch between the old firmware and rockbox at any time with dual boot? |
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| 11:16:07 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 11:16:30 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29273): Fix red |
| 11:16:32 | sprotte24 | I think, installing rockbox is the only way to really test it and judge the quality |
| 11:17:10 | TheSeven | sprotte24: AFAIK yes, but I don't have a Fuze |
| 11:17:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:17:36 | n1s | sprotte24: as i said, it's in the manual http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansafuze/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-280003.1.3 |
| 11:17:59 | sprotte24 | n1s: thx, I will read tis. |
| 11:18:02 | sprotte24 | this |
| 11:19:54 | CIA-70 | r29273 build result: 10 errors, 0 warnings (theseven committed) |
| 11:20:21 | sprotte24 | On my orig. Sansa Fuze I have no selcetion for deside to stop play after one record, it continues with the next music. Do I have a choice on the rocket box to stop after the end of a record? |
| 11:20:30 | sprotte24 | decide |
| 11:20:55 | Zagor | yes |
| 11:22:46 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29274): Fix more red. Two had been hiding. |
| 11:23:51 | * | TheSeven wonders if sprotte24 is using some T9-like input method that's not very good at auto completing :) |
| 11:24:01 | | Quit GeekShad0w (Quit: The cake is a lie !) |
| 11:24:54 | sprotte24 | TheSeven: I write with chatzilla IRC from firefox on my windows pc |
| 11:25:29 | * | S_a_i_n_t would have just said "yes" and run with it ;) |
| 11:26:12 | CIA-70 | New commit by jethead71 (r29275): audio_peek_track should copy the struct mp3entry instead of pointing directly into the buffer. Despite the dire warning, caller does in fact ... |
| 11:26:27 | sprotte24 | I do not use T9, I do not like writing SMS :-) |
| 11:26:34 | CIA-70 | r29274 build result: 2 errors, 0 warnings (theseven committed) |
| 11:27:19 | sprotte24 | I live in Germany, so my English is not so good |
| 11:27:41 | Zagor | TheSeven: whack-a-mole! :) |
| 11:30:00 | TheSeven | Zagor: no, *that* one wasn't mine! |
| 11:31:31 | | Join TheSeven|Mobile [0] (~theseven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 11:31:35 | CIA-70 | r29275 build result: All green |
| 11:31:52 | TheSeven | sprotte24: "rocket box" seriously looked like autocompletion going nuts :) |
| 11:32:12 | TheSeven | Zagor: proof! |
| 11:32:15 | Zagor | hehe |
| 11:32:26 | Zagor | "rocket box" has to be our new years' edition |
| 11:33:14 | | Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) |
| 11:33:26 | S_a_i_n_t | It's quite impressive to type like Google Translate, without Google Translate ;) |
| 11:36:26 | | Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 11:40:36 | | Quit markun_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
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| 12:00 |
| 12:01:08 | | Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:05:36 | | Join PurlingNayuki [0] (~PurlingNa@113.82.118.43) |
| 12:05:48 | PurlingNayuki | Hi everyone. |
| 12:06:07 | PurlingNayuki | What should I do to set up the Android SDK? |
| 12:08:13 | S_a_i_n_t | Follow the directions on the Google developer website. |
| 12:08:50 | PurlingNayuki | Then if I want to use the installtoolchian.sh in Rockbox? |
| 12:09:03 | S_a_i_n_t | it's best not to. |
| 12:09:24 | S_a_i_n_t | just follow the directions here, then you are assured to get the latest available copies. |
| 12:09:25 | S_a_i_n_t | miawing and celling |
| 12:09:35 | S_a_i_n_t | dammit, ignore that last post. |
| 12:09:43 | S_a_i_n_t | ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdeveloper.android.com%2Fsdk%2F&ei=OcdTTZzmBIeCvgOTwdDxCA&usg=AFQjCNG2OCt-GU5GslQw7zE0jmgKb3auDA">http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdeveloper.android.com%2Fsdk%2F&ei=OcdTTZzmBIeCvgOTwdDxCA&usg=AFQjCNG2OCt-GU5GslQw7zE0jmgKb3auDA |
| 12:10:02 | S_a_i_n_t | argh! why did the link do that! |
| 12:10:03 | PurlingNayuki | Oh no. |
| 12:10:13 | S_a_i_n_t | PurlingNayuki: http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html |
| 12:10:23 | PurlingNayuki | Thanks |
| 12:10:54 | PurlingNayuki | But I execute that installToolchain.sh in Rockbox. |
| 12:12:13 | S_a_i_n_t | it should be fine...as long as it points to SDK r9 and NDK r5b |
| 12:12:15 | PurlingNayuki | And how to build librockbox.so? |
| 12:13:05 | S_a_i_n_t | I'm not even sure what that is for. |
| 12:13:44 | PurlingNayuki | I ran ../tools/configure in rockbox/android. |
| 12:13:57 | PurlingNayuki | But which one should I choose? |
| 12:14:21 | S_a_i_n_t | what do you mean? |
| 12:14:31 | | Quit sprotte24 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]) |
| 12:14:31 | gevaerts | You should build in a dedicated directory, not in a random source directory |
| 12:14:53 | S_a_i_n_t | you should not need to run ..tools/configure/ in rockbox/android/ |
| 12:15:01 | S_a_i_n_t | you should create your own build dir. |
| 12:15:07 | S_a_i_n_t | not build in randon source dirs. |
| 12:15:18 | PurlingNayuki | Build librockbox.so as usual in the android/ directory of Rockbox trunk (configure with tools/configure and follow the directions) (../tools/configure && make -j3) |
| 12:15:20 | PurlingNayuki | That is from the offical website. |
| 12:15:26 | S_a_i_n_t | ooop, too late, thanks gevaerts. |
| 12:15:27 | PurlingNayuki | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AndroidPort |
| 12:15:58 | gevaerts | PurlingNayuki: android/README is *more* official |
| 12:16:10 | PurlingNayuki | Well thanks. |
| 12:16:19 | PurlingNayuki | I'll read it at once. |
| 12:16:23 | S_a_i_n_t | yes, there is no need to build libroxbox.so as an individual step. |
| 12:16:44 | | Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 12:17:15 | S_a_i_n_t | My advise would be to not bother with InstallToolchain either, personally...but, if you want to, go for it. |
| 12:18:08 | S_a_i_n_t | all you need (additional to the rockbox source) is the S/NDK and a JRE |
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| 12:30:48 | PurlingNayuki | OK. |
| 12:31:01 | PurlingNayuki | Now I'm trying to build my first Android Rockbox/ |
| 12:31:18 | * | PurlingNayuki is very happy |
| 12:31:52 | * | PurlingNayuki is also nervous and don't want to wait |
| 12:33:57 | PurlingNayuki | Help! |
| 12:33:59 | PurlingNayuki | CC apps/bookmark.c |
| 12:34:01 | PurlingNayuki | In file included from /home/yzflcyq/rockbox/apps/bookmark.c:34: |
| 12:34:03 | PurlingNayuki | /home/yzflcyq/rockbox/apps/recorder/icons.h:33:33: error: bitmaps/rockboxlogo.h: No such file or directory |
| 12:34:08 | * | PurlingNayuki needs help! |
| 12:35:26 | | Quit JdGordon| (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:35:58 | | Quit JdGordon1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:39:02 | | Part LinusN |
| 12:47:40 | S_a_i_n_t | it sounds as though your PATH is incorrect, or, your source checkout is imcomplete. |
| 12:51:41 | S_a_i_n_t | *incomplete |
| 12:52:11 | n1s | IIRC rockboxlogo.h is generated by the build system so something has gone wrong prior to that error |
| 12:59:15 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 13:00 |
| 13:00:53 | PurlingNayuki | Ahh. |
| 13:00:59 | | Join francesco_ [0] (~francesco@static-82-85-249-115.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 13:01:22 | PurlingNayuki | I remember that I used sudo when running installtoolchain.sh. |
| 13:13:20 | | Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) |
| 13:13:23 | francesco_ | hi there.. does anyone know if it's possible to change colors to the clip+ v1 screen? |
| 13:13:36 | Torne | no, it's a monochrome display |
| 13:16:05 | francesco_ | Torne: actually it's yellow and blue |
| 13:16:15 | francesco_ | i'd like to change the yellow to something else... |
| 13:16:35 | Zagor | francesco_: you can't. the pixels are only one color. |
| 13:16:51 | Torne | francesco_: It's definately monochrome :) |
| 13:16:53 | Zagor | the top pixels are yellow, the rest blue. |
| 13:17:00 | Torne | The top bit is monochrome yellow, the bottom bit is monochrome blue |
| 13:17:17 | francesco_ | Zagor and Torne: ok thanks |
| 13:17:32 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:25:35 | * | linuxstb reads about the .ONESHELL Makefile directive and wonders if it would be useful for Rockbox |
| 13:27:19 | francesco_ | is there a way to avoid that everytime clip+ get plugged to usb it switch to OF? |
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| 13:38:26 | Zagor | francesco_: no, we use OF for usb |
| 13:38:52 | Zagor | (on this target) |
| 13:44:16 | AlexP | gevaerts: OK |
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| 14:06:45 | pamaury | I'm considering to get a fuze+, do you think Sandisk is still willing to give us some hardware (as they pretended a few month ago (don't remeber who they contacted) |
| 14:06:47 | pamaury | ? |
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| 14:10:43 | Zagor | pamaury: if you plan to develop on the device, the fund can buy it for you |
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| 14:11:26 | pamaury | I plan to try. If the fund buys it and I fail, I'll give the device to someone else of course. |
| 14:17:02 | pamaury | Zagor: I buy it and the "fund" gives me the money back, or the "fund" really buys it for me ? |
| 14:17:23 | Zagor | you buy it. sending money is easier than sending goods. |
| 14:19:01 | pamaury | Ok, now I need to find a cheap fuze+ if possible |
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| 14:27:15 | | Quit petur (Quit: reboot) |
| 14:27:57 | sideral | francesco_: There is experimental USB support for the Clip+. If you want to help debug it, see FS #11664 |
| 14:28:47 | Torne | note that "helping debug it" might include your clip locking up and having to wait for 36 hours for the battery to run down before you can use it again |
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| 15:22:05 | Guest28722 | does anyone speak english? |
| 15:23:11 | Strife89 | Yes? |
| 15:23:21 | | Quit Guest28722 (Client Quit) |
| 15:36:57 | PurlingNayuki | Well English is the most widely used language all over the world. |
| 15:36:58 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
| 15:38:04 | PurlingNayuki | When I let it make apk it display: |
| 15:38:06 | PurlingNayuki | THIS TOOL IS DEPRECATED |
| 15:38:08 | PurlingNayuki | Why? |
| 15:38:32 | Torne | because we call a tool that's deprecated, i expect |
| 15:39:23 | PurlingNayuki | You really have a sense of humor, I expect. |
| 15:40:41 | Torne | well what do you want? |
| 15:40:52 | Torne | i wasn't joking, that's the answer. |
| 15:41:06 | Torne | some tool we use while building the apk is deprecated in whatever version of the android sdk you have. |
| 15:41:31 | PurlingNayuki | So it is. |
| 15:41:35 | PurlingNayuki | Thanks. |
| 15:42:05 | Torne | it suggests we should maybe use another tool at some point, but it's not relevant to a user building it |
| 15:43:52 | gevaerts | It's a bit silly, really |
| 15:44:18 | PurlingNayuki | Thanks. |
| 15:44:20 | | Part PurlingNayuki |
| 15:44:21 | gevaerts | The recommended replacement is calling some API function in the android tools. The tool we use does exactly that |
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| 18:54:34 | kugel | S_a_i_n_t: building in android/ works just fine |
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| 18:55:02 | kugel | building there actually allows you to use eclipse for the java bits |
| 18:55:29 | kugel | (otherwise eclipse doesn't pick up librockbox.so for building the .apk) |
| 19:00 |
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| 20:13:34 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29276): iPod Nano2g/Classic clickwheel: Configure GPIO pins as Hi-Z while hold switch is engaged |
| 20:13:48 | TheSeven | hopefully the mole has been whacked now |
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| 20:18:55 | CIA-70 | r29276 build result: All green |
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| 20:34:07 | * | Buschel gets linker errors with r29270 |
| 20:34:22 | Buschel | (simulation, cygwin) |
| 20:35:08 | Buschel | seems connected to the embedded AA changes |
| 20:41:02 | | Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 21:00 |
| 21:00:43 | Buschel | the linker errors occurs when building the test plugins with r29258 or later |
| 21:01:04 | kugel | Buschel: it's the plugin |
| 21:01:14 | kugel | test_jpeg plugn* |
| 21:01:18 | kugel | I got it as well, but haven't looked into it yet |
| 21:02:32 | Buschel | looks like there is something going wrong in case JPEG_FROM_MEM is defined |
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| 21:11:22 | Buschel | kugel: how does this look? -> http://pastie.org/1550199 |
| 21:12:23 | Buschel | at least it compiles, but I do not have any test files to test with |
| 21:12:56 | kugel | looks good |
| 21:13:04 | | Join fml [0] (~chatzilla@manz-590f1e4a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:13:12 | kugel | I didn't pay attention when making the wrapper |
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| 21:13:45 | Buschel | no prob |
| 21:14:07 | fml | S_a_i_n_t: Hello. I've seen in the logs that you wanted to play with the patch for menu reordering. Have you got any results? |
| 21:17:16 | fml | Or was that [Saint]? Is that the same person? |
| 21:17:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:19:18 | AlexP | same |
| 21:20:22 | | Quit liar (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 21:20:23 | CIA-70 | New commit by Buschel (r29277): Fix test plugin build. |
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| 21:24:24 | CIA-70 | r29277 build result: All green |
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| 21:38:39 | * | linuxstb looks around for thomasjfox |
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| 21:55:41 | CIA-70 | New commit by alle (r29278): Fix a couple of typos in the comment in english.lang. Whether the comment is correct is another question which is not the subject of this commit. |
| 21:56:47 | * | TheSeven contemplates an evil plan |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:04 | CIA-70 | r29278 build result: All green |
| 22:04:32 | | Quit fml (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]) |
| 22:05:14 | TheSeven | some quick grepping suggests that we might actually be able to fake current_tick based on USEC_TIMER at least on singlecore devices |
| 22:05:28 | | Join mystica555 [0] (~Mike@m312636d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:05:31 | dfkt | does rockbox on android actually write a scrobbler.log somewhere, or is this not implemented yet? |
| 22:05:38 | TheSeven | and the non-hardware-dependent tick tasks don't seem to really care about how often they are called |
| 22:11:10 | kugel | dfkt: it seems not working for raaa |
| 22:11:20 | kugel | thomasjfox is investigating it |
| 22:12:25 | kugel | TheSeven: how many tick tasks are there anyway? |
| 22:12:33 | kugel | backlight, button, and? |
| 22:12:47 | TheSeven | usb |
| 22:12:53 | TheSeven | and dozens of drivers in the target tree |
| 22:13:02 | TheSeven | no idea what those need tick tasks for though |
| 22:13:18 | TheSeven | and that timeout thing of course |
| 22:13:41 | kugel | but you must not forget that the thread scheduler also depends on the timer |
| 22:13:56 | TheSeven | yes, but it shouldn't depend on the tick rate being constant |
| 22:14:27 | kugel | no, but if you make it too low then the timeouts threads are asking for will be off |
| 22:14:43 | kugel | (although I doubt they need them very accurate) |
| 22:14:48 | TheSeven | what i'm contemplating is to scale the tick rate with the CPU speed, and maybe if we're idle even calculate for how long and schedule the next tick at whatever time we need it |
| 22:15:47 | TheSeven | while latencies may be critical while boosting, i don't think they are while unboosted |
| 22:16:13 | TheSeven | reducing the tick rate if there is no pressure on the scheduler will even increase efficiency :) |
| 22:16:30 | kugel | sure |
| 22:16:43 | kugel | it would be sure nice to have that |
| 22:17:05 | TheSeven | so we have 420 occurrences of current_tick and 28 occurrences of tick_add_task... |
| 22:17:23 | kugel | perhaps replace current_tick with a function call, and make it possible to override it in the target tree |
| 22:17:37 | TheSeven | hm, the ultimate hack would probably to increment current_tick by 2 or 4 depending on the current scaling factor :) |
| 22:17:41 | kugel | I find it ugly anyway that plugins/codecs can access it directly (*rb->current_tick) |
| 22:18:14 | kugel | TheSeven: we considered that one actually :) I think it's not that much of a hack |
| 22:18:36 | TheSeven | this one could probably work out without much effort |
| 22:19:07 | TheSeven | but where is it being incremented? i can't seem to find that using grep |
| 22:19:14 | TheSeven | asm code involved? |
| 22:19:17 | kugel | in call_tick_tasks() |
| 22:19:32 | TheSeven | aha |
| 22:20:05 | TheSeven | hm, in the long term i think we should get rid of HZ completely and work with microseconds instead |
| 22:20:28 | TheSeven | 2000 seconds of delay (before it wraps) should be enough for everything, right? |
| 22:21:12 | TheSeven | and if we don't have that much timer accuracy, things shouldn't mind if it increments in steps of 1000 or whatever |
| 22:22:08 | kugel | I don't agree with that |
| 22:22:33 | kugel | if you can't count on the timer to have microsecond resolution, then it shouldn't have microsecond resolution in the first place |
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| 22:24:45 | kugel | is 10ms insufficient? |
| 22:26:59 | | Quit bluebroth3r (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 22:29:20 | | Quit bluebrother (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:29:34 | TheSeven | kugel: I'm thinking more along the lines of more efficiency (and higher-quality profiling data) if the accuracy is available |
| 22:30:03 | TheSeven | btw my tick divider proof of concept patch seems to work fine so far |
| 22:30:14 | kugel | why would go down to 1us increase efficiency? |
| 22:31:27 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 22:32:10 | TheSeven | i would go to 1us to unify things |
| 22:32:28 | TheSeven | for scheduling purposes, 1ms is probably sufficient for almost everything, but not for profiling |
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| 22:39:08 | TheSeven | hm, rockbox barely sleeps 60% of the time at 27MHz |
| 22:39:19 | TheSeven | so 10MHz of idle load... where is that coming from? |
| 22:39:31 | TheSeven | and the UI is really sluggish |
| 22:41:28 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
| 22:43:48 | | Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me)) |
| 22:48:32 | TheSeven | Torne: do i remember correctly that it was you who implemented that dynamic USB current selection thing? |
| 22:48:44 | Torne | yes |
| 22:48:47 | TheSeven | is it to be expected that it will only ever draw 100mA in charging mode, and 500mA only in UMS mode? |
| 22:48:52 | Torne | no |
| 22:48:59 | TheSeven | but that's what happens on my classic |
| 22:49:01 | Torne | it should switch to 500mA once it's been configured |
| 22:49:06 | Torne | unless you set it to off |
| 22:49:09 | TheSeven | charging is set to "force" |
| 22:49:13 | Torne | Doesn't matter |
| 22:49:26 | Torne | do you actually have a working usb stack? |
| 22:49:30 | TheSeven | yep |
| 22:49:44 | TheSeven | well, it does switch to 500mA for UMS, but not if i hold menu while plugging it |
| 22:49:46 | Torne | does it use the same detection mode as PP ipods? |
| 22:49:56 | Torne | and do you have HID enabled? |
| 22:50:27 | TheSeven | no, i don't have HID enabled |
| 22:50:35 | TheSeven | and what do you mean with "detection mode"? |
| 22:50:40 | TheSeven | USB or power detection? |
| 22:51:11 | Torne | is it doing polling or interrupts? |
| 22:51:21 | Torne | try turning HID on, unless that doesn't work :) |
| 22:51:29 | Torne | maybe the host isn't configuring our dummy device properly |
| 22:51:32 | TheSeven | int usb_detect(void) { if (charger_inserted()) return USB_INSERTED; return USB_EXTRACTED; } |
| 22:51:32 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:51:41 | TheSeven | host OS is windows 7 |
| 22:51:55 | Torne | not thta kind of detection |
| 22:51:58 | Torne | detection of an active host |
| 22:52:06 | Torne | how does it tell there's a host and not just power on Vcc |
| 22:52:19 | TheSeven | i don't think it detects that at all |
| 22:52:30 | TheSeven | how could it do that? |
| 22:52:42 | TheSeven | i.e. how would one implement it API-wise? |
| 22:52:43 | Torne | the other drivers do it |
| 22:52:48 | Torne | let me look |
| 22:52:56 | TheSeven | shouldn't the USB core just check for a bus reset to determine that? |
| 22:53:01 | Torne | no |
| 22:53:38 | Torne | see USB_DELAYED_INSERT code |
| 22:54:07 | Torne | Does it immediately go into USB mode even if you only plug in a charger, if you don't hold menu? |
| 22:54:21 | TheSeven | yep |
| 22:54:29 | TheSeven | (which is annoying me quite a bit) |
| 22:54:30 | Torne | Right, then you haven't done detection "right" |
| 22:54:36 | Torne | define USB_DELAYED_INSERT i think |
| 22:54:50 | Torne | It distinguishes USB_POWERED from USB_INSERTED |
| 22:54:58 | Torne | the usb core is responsible for handling host detection |
| 22:54:58 | TheSeven | where would one define that? config/ipod6g.h? |
| 22:55:08 | Torne | i dunno, look at the PP ipods |
| 22:55:20 | Torne | the target code tells it when ther'es usb power |
| 22:55:28 | Torne | then it turns on the usb controller and wiats for an interrupt |
| 22:55:38 | Torne | the usb core then transitions it to USB_INSERTED when it gets the interupt for a bus reset |
| 22:55:57 | Torne | It may be that the charger stuff doesn't work properly for targets that don't do delayed insert handling :) |
| 22:56:05 | | Join lol [0] (~43ecc448@giant.haxx.se) |
| 22:56:09 | Torne | or it might be something else |
| 22:56:10 | TheSeven | well, apparently |
| 22:56:19 | Torne | PRetty sure it works fine on PP though |
| 22:56:29 | lol | hello |
| 22:56:31 | | Nick lol is now known as Guest98973 (~43ecc448@giant.haxx.se) |
| 22:56:45 | TheSeven | is there any reason to not always enable this though? i mean, it's a USB core matter that doesn't really depend on the driver, right? |
| 22:57:04 | Guest98973 | Hey, Is there a supported Lua documentation for rockbox? |
| 22:57:10 | TheSeven | /data/rockbox-trunk/firmware/usb.c:482: error: "USB_UNPOWERED" undeclared |
| 22:57:21 | Torne | maybe it's a different define :) |
| 22:57:21 | | Join Sof [0] (~Miranda@gar31-1-82-66-75-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:57:30 | Torne | look to see what ipodvideo defines ;) |
| 22:57:35 | | Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 22:57:42 | Torne | including indirectly via config.h based on its usb type ;) |
| 22:58:25 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@dhcp0101.kin.resnet.group.upenn.edu) |
| 22:58:31 | Sof | Ho no. I've landed in a geek world... :-) hello all |
| 22:58:50 | | Quit Guest98973 (Client Quit) |
| 22:58:56 | TheSeven | Torne: there's USB_DETECT_BY_DRV and USB_DETECT_BY_CORE |
| 22:59:02 | Torne | That's the one |
| 22:59:10 | * | Torne has to idle for now. |
| 22:59:15 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:59:39 | Sof | I've a little question about the sansa clipp+ with rockbox. Is there a way to lock the keyboard while playing? |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:12 | bertrik | Yes, I think so, but I forgot the key combo for that |
| 23:00:21 | literal | hold the middle button and the home button, I believe |
| 23:00:29 | TheSeven | Sof: If there is such a thing, it should be described in the manual :) |
| 23:00:42 | literal | and yeah, it's in the manual |
| 23:02:12 | Sof | hm... OK sory I'll look into the manual. I thought it was quicker to ask here ;-) htanks! :-) |
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| 23:03:42 | CIA-70 | New commit by jethead71 (r29279): Always do proper mp3entry copying instead of using bufread directly. Add bufreadid3() helper. |
| 23:04:49 | | Quit bluebrother (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 23:05:52 | * | jhMikeS wants to officially deprecate USB_DETECT_BY_DRV and insist on USB_DETECT_BY_CORE instead since it's more robust and actually easier to implement at the driver level |
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| 23:07:43 | | Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) |
| 23:08:06 | Sof | thanks for your clear answers guys. really helpfull. bye! :-) |
| 23:08:11 | | Quit Sof () |
| 23:08:33 | CIA-70 | r29279 build result: All green |
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| 23:17:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:35:02 | * | TheSeven needs some kind of a function generator plugin for rockbox |
| 23:35:17 | TheSeven | e.g. square/sine at configurable amplitude and frequency |
| 23:35:32 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:35:32 | S_a_i_n_t | what for? |
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| 23:35:58 | TheSeven | mainly to test other hardware :) |
| 23:36:17 | Bagder | http://pastebin.com/zGC3t2cb <= perl script to make sine table with |
| 23:36:32 | amiconn | Just play an appropriately prepared wav file? |
| 23:36:52 | TheSeven | tuning on-target was the whole point of it |
| 23:36:58 | TheSeven | especially the frequency |
| 23:37:37 | jhMikeS | I have a blit synth plugin that I was messing with but never really did much with |
| 23:38:31 | TheSeven | what i currently need is rather trivial: produce at least one high sample at a specified interval |
| 23:39:02 | TheSeven | an arbitrary duty cycle square wave at a configurable frequency |
| 23:39:07 | jhMikeS | it does that |
| 23:39:20 | jhMikeS | without aliasing |
| 23:40:05 | jhMikeS | the pure unitegrated impulse train will give the high samples |
| 23:46:38 | jhMikeS | all I have is a stale old test_sampr patch for it :\ |
| 23:47:56 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:48:05 | | Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ) |
| 23:49:43 | amiconn | TheSeven: The coldfire targets also have cpu clock based timers. That doesn't stop us from clock scaling. Clock scaling just needs to adjust the prescalers accordingly |
| 23:50:02 | | Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 23:50:49 | jhMikeS | TheSeven: fwiw jhmikes.cleansoap.org/test_sampr_with_blit_synth.diff">http://jhmikes.cleansoap.org/test_sampr_with_blit_synth.diff |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).