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#rockbox log for 2011-02-20

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00:59:22overniteI have a sansa fuze v2, running Rockbox of course, and it works well −− except the connector cable is going bad. I was looking at the fuze+ but it isn't supported yet. Is the fuze v2 off the market now?
01:02:46S_a_i_n_tit's increasingly difficult to find them new, yes.
01:03:03 Quit casainho (Remote host closed the connection)
01:04:11overniteThanks. Well, is there any consensus about the "best" rockbox audio-player readily available now, then?
01:04:38S_a_i_n_tit's far too subjective to personal preference.
01:05:01S_a_i_n_tThere's only one target that can be purchased new afaik, and it's "unsupported".
01:05:28S_a_i_n_tand as well, it's far too personal a thing to say X or Y is best.
01:05:36S_a_i_n_tit depends what you want.
01:06:07overniteThat makes life a bit harder, doesn't it! I'll just start looking around at Craigslist, eBay, etc. I guess.
01:06:29S_a_i_n_tpixelma: way late...but yes, yes you do.
01:06:34S_a_i_n_tre: touch areas.
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01:40:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:32:19WilliamCI want to submit a bug on the daily build but I cannot access the bug website, it's timing out
02:32:27S_a_i_n_tworks fine here.
02:33:11WilliamCNow it works
02:39:26WilliamCWould a low battery affect the volume?
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03:25:18***ERROR: (Closing Link: (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)) from
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03:25:20***Started Dancer V4.16
03:25:20***Connected to on port 6667
03:25:20***Logfile for #rockbox started
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03:46:54WilliamCI found out where the bug is, it's in the replaygain
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05:25:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:56:43nirvi've got some info to add to
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06:57:51nirvFor an ipod video (5th generation) 80GB, the Monsterࢮ iCarPlay Wireless 200™ works if you first load your playlist but once you connect it, it will start shuffling through your menus nonstop so you won't have any control over playback or menus until you reset it
06:58:20 Join factor [0] (~factor@
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06:58:21nirvusing latest 1.3.7 Rockbox
06:58:31*S_a_i_n_t points out that this is in fact IRC, and not the wiki.
06:58:36 Join factor [0] (~factor@
06:58:50nirvoh really asshole?
06:58:58nirvIf you need help adding to or updating, this list; please post a question (or simply a list of the information needing added) to the forums, IRC, or the user mailing list.
06:59:11nirvI guess you lose, fag.
06:59:20S_a_i_n_tand have you done so? I don't see it?
06:59:34S_a_i_n_tdid you say "can I have access to the wiki, this is my username"?
06:59:39S_a_i_n_ti must have missed that.
06:59:53nirvYou should do the editing because I'm not creating a user name.
07:00:06nirvIf you value the information, take it.
07:00:16nirvIf not, why don't you go get on a bicycle and go screw yourself halfway around the world?
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07:25:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:46:09S_a_i_n_tnirv: there's a lot of info that would be helpful if you actually want this added to the wiki.
07:46:42S_a_i_n_tthe reporter also can't be the you cannot say it is verified.
07:47:08S_a_i_n_tcharging? audio out? remote? audio in?
07:47:11nirvI'm right here.
07:47:13S_a_i_n_tmodel number
07:47:14nirvphone number
07:47:22nirvlet's GO asshole
07:47:36nirvyou want video?
07:47:42nirvI can make a 720p youtube video
07:47:50S_a_i_n_twhat the hell are you doing? I'm *TRYING* to do what you wanted...but, if that's how you're going to be...fucl it.
07:47:59nirvfroggyman is already on it
07:48:03nirvyou're too grandpa'd out
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07:56:04froggymannirv, Okay. The wiki page is now up to date with the information you provided me
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08:08:28S_a_i_n_tgah....that new wiki entry is clipped, relevant sections on menu-spazzing omitted :/
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08:28:45webguest777I have file system corruption. My only OS is Ubuntu. Can I run the Sansa e280 v1's OF 'format' function? Will that erase the RB bootloader? What do?
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08:40:29webguest777If you could just tell me what I will have to do after using the OF's 'format' function on the internal storage, that will help a lot.
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09:25:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:35:45BOBSAGETi wonder if i should just delete my Ipod_Control folder and start over in normal Rockbox folder structure since there doesn't seem to be a good way to convert the DB to my preferred music folder. some OCD bullcrap going on
10:36:25[Saint]If you use the database, and your tags are sane...all will be well.
10:36:57[Saint]if you use the file browser...expect hell, as iTunes uses a crazy naming/positioning scheme.
10:38:21BOBSAGETyeah all will be well visually
10:38:42BOBSAGETbut the files will still be oddly named in Ipod_Control instead of \Music which is where I want them
10:39:15[Saint]There's no alternative but to start again, then.
10:39:19BOBSAGETboo hoo hoo
10:39:43BOBSAGETweow weooooooow
10:41:28 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:42:51[Saint]A lot of users find it easier to just hide the iPod_control fiolder, so as it doesn't display in the file browser...and then they can still continue to use iTunes and the Apple OF if need be.
10:43:31[Saint]s/so as it doesn't display in the file browser/so as it doesn't display in the file browser (unless "Show Files" is set to All)
10:44:09 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
10:46:43BOBSAGETi don't know why I'd want to go back to the apple interface on my ipod when it doesn't support flac
10:47:52[Saint]Ok, but I didn't say you specifically...just explaining what some users do to maintain compatability between the two systems.
10:49:20[Saint](whilst not being cluttered with a million PSYGF2 (or similarly named files) in the file browser.)
10:50:09[Saint]if you're not going to be using iTunes at all...just remove it completely.
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10:54:58[Saint]the iPod Video in particular has one of the largest boosts (if not the largest) in boot time with Rockbox installed to OSOS in place of the Apple FW.
10:55:17[Saint]so, if you really don't need iTunes...
10:55:57[Saint](though it's a matter of seconds, and boot time is reasonable anyway)
10:56:12BOBSAGETit's the options and interface
10:56:33BOBSAGETthe only problem I have with RB right now is that my dumb FM transmitter doesn't seem to work well with it
10:57:26BOBSAGETi like being able to delete in real-time, too
10:57:38bertrikThis could be as simple as enabling a line-out somewhere
10:57:45AlexPBOBSAGET: Just a note, if you insult anyone again as you were earlier (as "nirv") then I will ban you. There is no need for unprovoked insults.
10:57:51AlexPEspecially like those
10:58:13BOBSAGETI hate rules where you're required to be friendly to people
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10:58:19BOBSAGETwhy don't you be friendly to me right now?
10:58:21BOBSAGEToh I get it
10:58:28AlexPWell, whether that is true or not, they are the rules
10:58:32BOBSAGETit's okay to do it to others but they can't return fire
10:58:37AlexPAnd I am being friendly, I'm letting you know
10:58:46BOBSAGETyou're threatening to silence me
10:58:57BOBSAGETthat isn't friendly
10:59:20AlexPTake it as you wish
10:59:39*[Saint] notes that BOBSAGET/nirv stated earlier that line out power is turned off on this device.
10:59:52[Saint]the FM sender/reciever probably doesn't like this.
11:00:27BOBSAGETThe Line Out is On by default
11:00:29BOBSAGETI just checked it
11:00:55[Saint]Line out is...accessory power is too, but you disabled it.
11:01:06[Saint](according to your details about the dock)
11:01:14BOBSAGETi tried various methods
11:01:35[Saint]I would expect it needs accesory power on to function correctly.
11:01:39BOBSAGETall settings seemed to remove all menu function
11:02:11*[Saint] has a parsing failure there, sorry.
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12:14:15webguest777If I use the e200's OF 'format' function, what will I have to do to get Rockbox back?
12:19:54AlexPJust reinstall the build I think
12:20:04AlexPI *think* the bootloader should still be there
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12:33:29CIA-70New commit by jethead71 (r29343): Make format_time properly format negative times because sometimes they are shown if track length estimates are off from seeking. Example: -0:15 ...
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12:37:41CIA-70r29343 build result: 320 errors, 39 warnings (jethead71 committed)
12:40:19jhMikeSurgh, what the hell is with the inconsistent inclusion of things >:[
12:47:00CIA-70New commit by jethead71 (r29344): Fix the r29343 red.
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12:51:03CIA-70r29344 build result: All green
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12:55:19BuscheljhMikeS: you latest patch in FS #11863 also fixes FS #11495 :)
12:56:14Buschel...but not reproducibly :/
12:57:45jhMikeSnot reproducably? not sure what you mean
12:59:44Buscheli first thought the issue was fixed (tried about a dozen times). but one minute later it began again. so: not fixed
13:00:22jhMikeSthere are still problems where playback can pull metadata away from the codec but too much to go into in one patch right now
13:00:57Buscheljust let me know when there is something to test
13:01:58jhMikeSso, maybe it takes care of part of an issue
13:02:17Buschelyes, it definately works better than before.
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13:03:39jhMikeSis it the only codec that overwrites id3v2buf? might not be so good a thing to do that.
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13:08:42[Saint]I must say jhMikeS, I am thoroughly impressed at your dedication to servicing the buffering code.
13:10:50jhMikeSthank you
13:11:56jhMikeSthere's a lot more floating around my head about servicing playback
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13:30:48AlexPAnyone object if I branch?
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13:33:30jhMikeSIf it means I can be more experimental with the SVN trunk, have at it! :)
13:33:47AlexPThat is a side effect, yes :)
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13:39:28AlexPI'm off to have some lunch, I'll do it afterwards
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13:46:01*[Saint] can't seem to figure out how to stop "next <blah>" skin tags from always expecting a next track to be present.
13:46:27[Saint]the only way I can do it is with a slighty ugly trick on the skin code end.
13:47:31[Saint]I'd *like* to contribute to skin code...but, a lot of it is still a mystery to me yet.
13:48:17[Saint]oh, what I meant by "ugly trick on the skin code end" is in .wps, .sbs etc.
13:48:49[Saint](wrapping stuff in %Fn<>)
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14:00:56jhMikeSI think "(root)" should go away when it doesn't know what's next too
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14:02:13[Saint]that's just the checks it goes through in cabbie...there's not many cases covered if the expected one fails.
14:02:34*[Saint] looks.
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14:04:33[Saint]yeah, it is a bit odd...gah, I kinda don't want to think about it too hard, but cabbie could be a lot better.
14:04:59jhMikeSwhat does "(root)" have to do with cabbie in particular?
14:05:19[Saint]it's hardcoded to display that in a fail situation.
14:05:24[Saint]in the .wps
14:05:38jhMikeSoh, I thought that was in the core but never looked where it was
14:06:06[Saint]core will display ???? if it *really* has no idea what the fuck to display.
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14:07:32[Saint]having two different checks for directory one, and directory two...for example...why?
14:07:58[Saint]you'd need only check for dir two, and display dir one if dir 2 is present, for instance.
14:08:50[Saint]it's bad I was the last to touch a lot of these cabbies, but I only looked at style formatting and viewports, not syntax really.
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14:09:34jhMikeSman, I don't know. the WPS syntax is one thing I'm almost entirely ignorant about
14:09:58[Saint]I think it's a gift, and a burden understanding it ;)
14:14:11[Saint]%?ia<%ia|%?d(2)<%d(2)|%(root%)>> <−− is artist tag available? if yes, display it, if no is dir2 available? if yes, display it, if no display "(root)" (which is really weird as it could check for dir1 if 2 fails)
14:15:12jhMikeSthat's just it, it always shown "(root)" when it seems it has no clue what's next anyway. I don't get the point
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14:15:50[Saint]nor I, and it's caught my interest enough to do something about having sane fallbacks for cases where info can be offered in cabbie.
14:15:57[Saint]but, not tonight ;)
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14:23:18[Saint]the only "bad" thing about it is that it makes no sense to display "(root)" if a check for the second level directory fails, it only makes sense if it was to display it after then additionally checking for the presence of a first level dir...which it neglects and creates the weirdness.
14:24:04[Saint]s/presence of a first level dir/presence of a first level dir (and that also failing)/
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14:33:37pixelma[Saint]: dir 1 is probably on another line which is meant as a replacement for album tag - assuming a "artist/album/track" folder structure
14:33:51pixelmaso why should it check for dir 1 twice?
14:34:15[Saint]it is, correct...but it seems odd to check for dir 2, then fail with "(root)" no?
14:34:30pixelmanote: haven't checked for the code, just thinking about it
14:34:37[Saint]it can only do so, if it knows that dir one isn't present either.
14:34:43[Saint]which that line currently does not.
14:35:54pixelmawell, then everything would be wrong if e.g. you have a "music/track" structure - then it would always display "music" twice
14:36:24[Saint]I'm not sure you're thinking about this in the same way.
14:36:34[Saint]there's no way that line I posted makes any sense.
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14:37:36pixelmaI think it does and I wanted to give you examples for when
14:38:25pixelmaprovided the check for dir 1 is on another line
14:38:35[Saint]what does it make sense to display "root" when a second level dir check fails? there's a tonne of other info that could be checked for and displayed in case.
14:41:14[Saint]the part I object to isn't what it checks for really, just that the cases can fail with too much ease...and displaying "root" "root" isn't that cool.
14:42:02[Saint]I think there should be another case added to the dir2 check to offer some other info instead of just failing.
14:44:15pixelma(I) if you usually have a artist > album > track structure and then stuff an "albumless" track into the "artist" folder - dir(1) shows you the artist info and dir(2) doesn't exist and you could display "root". (II) Showing completely unrelated info that's only there in a very few cases doesn't make sense to me either. (III) You can't take care of each and everything. (IV) I personally use some more "safety" checks but don't think it's unfair as is
14:44:15pixelmaand could understand the intention of the author - even though I also wondered about it once
14:44:23[Saint]I take it back, actually, it *does* make sense...what the code does in svn presently. In a very minimal way, but it could be tuned to offer more info with ease as opposed to failing rather ungracefully after a few checks.
14:46:58[Saint]I'd like it if it didn't rely on assuming a sane dir structure, to fall back on, or if it didn't *just* rely on that to fall back on.
14:47:10[Saint]that's it in a nutshell I think.
14:48:33[Saint]It would need a consensus on what additional info should be offered for the fail case(s), though.
14:49:18[Saint]Not just me deciding "this looks prettier than that" ( I want to avoid that, and try to always display the most relevant info that can be offered at the time)
14:49:51pixelmait is a matter of taste though I think
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14:50:39[Saint]I could imagine it quite easily displaying garbage if playing from an ipod with shittily tagged database.
14:51:10[Saint]their odd dir system, etc. that's not too hard of an edge case to imagine.
14:51:36[Saint]well, it's not "garbage" but the dir structure is meaningless here.
14:52:09pixelmahow would you prevent that without losing the ability to show the probably correct info with a quite standard dir structure?
14:53:08pixelmamaybe not standard but not unusual either
14:53:15[Saint]I doubt you could...but I'm wondering if falling back to the dir structure is the best thing in all cases if the requested metadata isn't present.
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14:58:06pixelmato me it is as there is a chance that you could find the desired information in it but as has been said already: matter of taste and (III).
14:58:27[Saint]I got misdirected with other weird thigs and thoughts, the initial oddity I noticed is that:
14:58:36[Saint]could easily be:
15:00:01pixelmathat would mean that it doesn't even try to check for %d(1) if the %d(2) check fails
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15:00:47[Saint]if the d2 check fails...d1 won't be there.
15:00:57[Saint]oh, fuck...derp.
15:01:14pixelmasounds wrong to me...
15:01:48[Saint]yeah, totally wrong logic there. from loking at two sets of code, with with a case the other didn't have.
15:01:55[Saint]*looking too.
15:02:59[Saint]I shouldn't try to argue points of personal preference at the best of times, let alone trying to compare it with changes only I know about...especially while tired. Apologies.
15:03:24[Saint]Yes, offereing more data/fail cases (if possible) is indeed quite a contentious subject I see.
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15:14:36CIA-70New commit by alex (r29345): Branch for 3.8
15:16:04Topic"Now branched for 3.8 | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | An upgrade caused issues with the wiki. We are on the case" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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15:22:10AlexPWe need more translations!
15:25:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:26:10*jhMikeS wants to deposit the sizeable patch now...if all is good it can still be merged with the branch right? (it is bugfixing but just have to work on one bit after)
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15:48:20CIA-70New commit by alex (r29346): Bump scripts to 3.8RC
15:50:01AlexPSo do we want RCs?
15:51:27AlexPI'm trying to remember what script I have to change to be explicitly python2 to make run
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15:56:27*AlexP gets building
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16:09:47[Saint]bertrik: settings - general settings - enable automatic resume
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16:11:05rasherSomeone should fix Swedish, Spanish and Serbian
16:11:38[Saint]kugel: are you aware of cases where rockbox will crash/hang when launched for the first time afer manually killing the task?
16:11:53[Saint](in RaaA)
16:11:54AlexPrasher: Someone should also finish the Danish translation :)
16:12:17rasherCertainly! It's in my "Todo: Urgent" list :)
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16:12:42AlexPhehe :)
16:13:15kugel[Saint]: should be fixed since yesterday
16:13:51[Saint]Ah, excellent, glad you're aware of it...past the point of being aware of it to being done with it, even. ;)
16:15:46AlexPrasher: Just add the deprecated strings as e.g. from the translate page?
16:16:47AlexPI think I can handle that
16:17:16AlexPOnce these RCs finish building, so in a few days...
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16:23:25CIA-70New commit by Buschel (r29347): FS #11939: Simplify talk_time_unit().
16:27:15CIA-70New commit by jethead71 (r29348): Enforce that codecs wait for their metadata in a proper-ish and consistent manner. Sort of a halfway patch; best would be to give them an internal ...
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16:28:00CIA-70r29347 build result: All green
16:32:47CIA-70r29348 build result: All green
16:39:20kugelrasher, AlexP: why do we need to add deprecated strings to lang files?
16:39:26kugeldoesn't seem to make sense to me
16:39:41AlexPkugel: To make the stats nice!
16:40:05rasherGenlang would be adding them anyway next time someone ran it
16:40:38kugeladding complexity just for the stats?
16:41:56AlexPHow is it complexity?
16:42:10AlexPAnd they would be added next time anyone did real changes anyway
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16:43:20kugelI'd like smarter stats better than adding useless lines into translations
16:43:32AlexPThey will be added next time anyway
16:43:44AlexPUnless you want to go through everything stripping them out
16:44:07bertrikCan't we just at least simply remove deprecated strings from english?
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16:44:22AlexPDoesn't that break something?
16:44:26*AlexP looks at rasher
16:44:30kugelIMO we should do that once in a while
16:44:34AlexPI don't really know
16:44:43kugele.g. immedialtely after releases
16:44:54bertrikI'm now completing the dutch translation and seeing deprecated empty strings in the .diff
16:45:06rasheryeah, but now's not the time
16:45:48rasherRemoving deprecated strings breaks voice compatibility (and langfile, but that's not really important)
16:46:31AlexPwe will be building voices for 3.8 anyway, so why not remove them before?
16:48:34rasherother people's voices
16:48:54AlexPyeah, but that'll happen whenever we do it
16:49:55kugelpeople on 3.7.x want new voices for 3.8 anyway
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16:53:04rasherBut people on yesterday's build won't expect 3.8 to break their voicefiles
16:53:34AlexPSo why would they expect 3.9 to break them?
16:53:55AlexPI guess I expect the people who use releases to stay on releases, so it is going to break at some point
16:54:13AlexPAnd if you go from releases to current to release etc., then at some point it is going to break
16:54:22AlexPI just don't see much difference :)
16:54:32rashersure, but that point seems more reasonable to be right after release, to me
16:55:25AlexPThey are going to want new ones to cover new features anyway, no?
16:55:36rasherideally yes
16:55:51rasherbut missing strings is better than a completely jumbled voice file
16:56:05AlexPWell, I don't really mind
16:56:24kugelif we have RC builds we probably shouldn't break voices between RC and release
16:56:47AlexPI'm building RC now
16:57:05AlexPLet's leave it then, and clean up straight after release
16:57:13kugelwould purging lang files reduce genlang runtime?
16:57:35kugelit's a significant (and annoying) step during compilation
17:12:14CIA-70New commit by Buschel (r29349): FS #11920: Do not overwrite already existing metadata and take into account string termination. This can save several bytes of the metadata buffer when ...
17:14:38jhMikeSoops on apps/plugins/SOURCES methinks :)
17:14:43CIA-70New commit by Buschel (r29350): Revert unwanted submit.
17:16:39CIA-70r29349 build result: 45 errors, 4 warnings (Buschel committed)
17:18:42Buschelwe should find a way to compile the test plugins as well...
17:19:07Buschelbtw, why don't we activate them for the builds in general? space?
17:19:15bertrikgevaerts, markun, petur: dutch language update, please review if you have time/motivation:
17:19:27jhMikeSI doubt they're of much interest in general
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17:21:12CIA-70r29350 build result: All green
17:21:14gevaertsbertrik: looks good to me
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17:22:46jhMikeSBuschel: I'd say benchmarks if anything but probably not odd dev plugins
17:22:55bertrikthanks gevaerts
17:23:14bertrikI should commit now both to trunk and the 3.8 branch now, right?
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17:25:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:35:46CIA-70New commit by bertrik (r29351): FS #11953 - Dutch (nederlands) translation update
17:37:26pixelma[Saint]: was it you who knew how to make a font taller by adding a line to the ascent - at least in the "convert to fnt" step?
17:37:31CIA-70New commit by bertrik (r29352): FS #11953 - Dutch (nederlands) translation update
17:37:52[Saint]pixelma: correct.
17:38:16pixelmahow would I go about that?
17:38:26[Saint]The exact syntax escapes me...I'll have a look at the convbdf help output.
17:39:54*pixelma is annoyed though that she forgot the way to do this by manipulating the bdf (or can't find the correct options in neither fontforge nor gbdfed that do the correct thing)
17:41:23[Saint]./convbdf -f -a <value> ! -d <value> ! <font.bdf>
17:41:28[Saint]should do it.
17:41:51[Saint]-a/d rasies the ascent/descent N pixels.
17:41:57[Saint]it can be negative
17:42:13CIA-70r29352 build result: All green
17:43:44[Saint]I have to rediscover how I did it each time I work with a font I need, it's more of an ass to do with convttf...but still possible (though not with any real accuracy)
17:43:52pixelmado I need to get convbdf from somewhere first?
17:44:20pixelmaI'd really really prefer to have the correct bdf though :/
17:46:05[Saint]yeah...".convbdf -f -a2! -d2! <font.bdf>" works as expected.
17:46:18[Saint]raises ascent/descent 2px
17:47:44pixelmadoes it overwrite the original font this way?
17:48:16[Saint]no, it will output a .fnt of the same name in the conversion dir.
17:48:40[Saint]and leave the .bdf as is.
17:48:42pixelmaah, fnt, hmm.
17:49:15[Saint]you can drop the -f flag if you want it a .bdf still.
17:49:32[Saint]and then you'd just do > newfilename iiuc
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17:51:01[Saint]"./convbdf -a N! -d N! oldfont.bdf > newfont.bdf" should work.
17:53:09[Saint]ah, hmm...though that may work, convbdf seems to suggest "convbdf [options] [-o output-file] [single-input-file]"
17:58:52pixelma" ../tools/convbdf -a1! -o 20-Nimbus.bdf 19-Nimbus.bdf" <- I can't seem to see what I'm doing wrong there, the -f variant works but with this I'm just presented with the convbdf help again and get no output file
17:59:07pixelmathis is directly in the font dir
18:01:14[Saint]Compared to what it expects, or says it expects...nothing looks wrong at all :/
18:01:35[Saint]Does "./convbdf -a N! -d N! oldfont.bdf > newfont.bdf" work?
18:02:35[Saint]Hmmm. I've no idea how to do this and retain the .bdf format. Every time I've worked with it .fnt has been my desired goal.
18:03:19[Saint]"-o output input" seems to be what it expects, *shrug*.
18:09:08*jhMikeS wants the AA fonts instead of crunchy text
18:09:59[Saint]I really think it's just not been committed because of contention, I think it could be committed without hassle now personally.
18:10:42jhMikeSI wouldn't mind the ability to use vector fonts directly on a fast device either
18:11:39jhMikeS[Saint]: too close to release?
18:12:12[Saint]Isn't after a branch a good time to potentially break shit?
18:12:17[Saint](not that it will)
18:12:29jhMikeSindeed, that's the point
18:13:39[Saint]No, I mean...isn't this a time when if it does break, it's not really an issue? Or is that after the release is actually released, not just branched?
18:13:52gevaertsI'd prefer people to wait until the actual release with really big changes (although I suspect AA isn't very intrusive), so backporting fixes doesn't get too hard
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18:17:36*kugel uses AA fonts since a while
18:17:47jhMikeSto me, AA really looks not major a change
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18:18:53pixelmawhy do you want it then? ;/
18:19:42pixelma[Saint]: the reason is actually quite simple, once you understand... convbdf is only converting from bdf to something else and can't produce a bdf itself
18:19:43jhMikeSbecause it's against aliasing
18:20:02pixelmaif you can't see a major change ;)
18:21:06*jhMikeS cries in the corner for being misunderstood that it was in fact the _code_ he was talking about
18:21:38jhMikeSbut since it's against something, I'm all for it :)
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18:41:50coplonwhat is the cheapest player you support?
18:42:21[Saint]that depends what you find available to buy.
18:42:33bertrikI guess the clip or clip+, but you can of course go cheaper with 2nd hand players
18:43:10coplonok thanks !
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18:59:38CIA-70New commit by rasher (r29353): Update Danish translation.
18:59:42CIA-70New commit by rasher (r29354): Update Danish translation.
19:00:15AlexPaha, it is tools/ that I need to edit to python2 otherwise clip won't build
19:01:40jhMikeScome again? how does it build now if it needs editing?
19:02:05AlexPjhMikeS: For me I mean - /usr/bin/python is pyhton 3
19:02:15AlexPArch has moved to python 3
19:04:33CIA-70r29353 build result: All green
19:04:46AlexPjhMikeS: I just mention it here as it might help others where their distro has moved.
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19:14:07AlexPI've just built the RCs using tools/release/ and they built fine, but rockbox-info.txt etc. shows the svn version and not 3.8RC (as is in the script)
19:14:16AlexPmake VERSION=blah works fine
19:14:19AlexPany ideas?
19:16:17CIA-70New commit by rasher (r29355): Add 2 deprecated strings to appease genlang and correct stats
19:16:18CIA-70New commit by rasher (r29356): Add 2 deprecated strings to appease genlang and correct stats
19:20:05CIA-70r29355 build result: All green
19:24:44 Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
19:25:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:29:56 Join dewdroid [0] (~dewdude@
19:30:58dewdroidI've got an issue on my early 5th gen video. Every other bootup it'll play a song for about 5 seconds then the harsh ear-bleeding sound of misencoded/raw PCM.
19:32:00AlexPgevaerts: What do you think to ?
19:32:14AlexPAt the moment we build the maps archive, but then throw it away
19:32:21AlexPI'm guessing they'd be useful to keep
19:33:41AlexPalso, shouldn't line 113 be make VERSION=$version ?
19:34:02AlexPQuestion also open to others :)
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19:42:23Buscheldewdroid: can you build rockbox on your own?
19:43:01dewdroidI could
19:44:05dewdroidI'm on the road now but I can maybe remember how to build a dev enviroment
19:44:26Buscheltry to comment ""#define HAVE_ATA_DMA" in firmware/export/config/ipodvideo.h
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19:46:04dewdroidOk...ill make a note of that and maybe Monday after work ill get on that
19:46:23dewdroidYou still developin mpc for rockbox?
19:46:58Buscheldewdroid: let me know whether it helps. regarding mpc -> if there's something to work on :)
19:48:12dewdroidHaha. I'll let you know. That was my primary format but I recently had to get another and was tasked with cramming 11k tracks in to 30 gigs
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19:48:57dewdroidWhich hurt since I've been using it since you brought it to dal way back when
19:49:52gevaertsAlexP: oh, good plan
19:49:53BuschelI of course keep using it, only few exceptions ;)
19:50:34AlexPgevaerts: Does that diff look OK? I tried it and it works, but I don't know any perl so just adapted what was there :)
19:50:38dewdroidOf course...but you're no longer main dev of the format...didn't klemm take the over or have things changed
19:50:55AlexPgevaerts: Just making sure I didn't accidently cock something up through ignorance :)
19:51:30CIA-70New commit by rasher (r29357): Add Croatian, and some ignored revisions.
19:51:45gevaertsAlexP: it looks reasonable, but I'm not a perl specialist either
19:52:02Buscheldewdroid: I am sure Klemm is not working on it anymore. there are a few guys −− who I do not know personally −− who maintain mpc.
19:52:03AlexPIt seems to work at least :)
19:52:46AlexPgevaerts: Also re $version - as far as I can see it is only used to name the zip at the moment, so the version in Rockbox is given as SVN
19:53:05AlexPgevaerts: Do you know how this normally works, as I'm sure releases have had the release number in the past
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19:53:33AlexPMy simplistic answer would be to change the make call on line 113 to "make VERSION=$version"
19:53:41dewdroidIts almost a shame since its your brainchild
19:54:34gevaertsAlexP: tools/ seems to indicate that you can make a docs/VERSION file with the version
19:55:50AlexPgevaerts: How does this link into tools/release/ though?
19:55:57Buscheldewdroid: well, it was real fun when developing it. but when I finished university and started to work there was not much time left... real life interrupt
19:56:08AlexPgevaerts: By having VERSION already set I suppose
19:56:23gevaertstools/release/ seems to be buggy. One shouldn
19:56:36gevaertst use svnversion directly these days was still fun watching that thing develop in to an outstanding lossy format
19:57:01 Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:59:02Buscheldewdroid: it's all about the psychoacoustic model :)
20:00:23dewdroid-lqt filburt :)
20:01:04*Buschel just remembers these times
20:01:13dewdroidWe tried finding filburt. No luck
20:01:46dewdroidBut...yeah...hard to believe that was 10 years ago
20:02:12AlexPgevaerts: OK, I created docs/VERSION with 3.8RC inside and it picked that up and appended the date, so Rockbox gives the version as "3.8RC-110220"
20:02:47gevaertsAlexP: what did we do for 3.7?
20:02:57AlexPgevaerts: This is what is puzzling me
20:03:08AlexPI'm just going to check what 3.7.1 gives as version
20:04:04AlexPwell 3.7.1 gives the version as 3.7.1
20:04:06kugelAlexP: can you possibly commit the revert? I don't feel like checking out the branch :)
20:04:17AlexPkugel: Sure, could you link me to it?
20:05:07AlexPI'll do it in a bit
20:05:52kugelthank you
20:10:03AlexPgevaerts: for 3.7.1/3.7 has e.g.
20:10:05AlexP# XXX: Don't run the scripts and just display the release version
20:10:05AlexPecho "3.7.1"
20:10:05AlexPexit 0
20:10:08AlexPin it :)
20:11:15TheSevennow that we've branched, i'd like to get that ce-ata driver into trunk... but i'm still wondering what's the best way to integrate it
20:11:32AlexPTheSeven: Is it very disruptive?
20:11:50TheSeveni don't like to have target-specific things in firmware/drivers/ata.c
20:12:10TheSevenbut i can't think of a way to integrate it without heavily ifdeffing that one
20:12:32AlexPAs if so even though we'd branched I'd prefer waiting until release to make backporting other fixes easier
20:13:12gevaertsI suspect needing to suddenly change ata.c isn't very likely
20:13:16TheSevenwell, I don't expect may fixes to touch that corner
20:13:25AlexPThis is why I ask, I have no idea :)
20:13:41AlexPgevaerts: anyway, for previous releases, was essentially bypassed
20:13:49AlexPwithin itself
20:14:12gevaertsAlexP: I'd say tradition is important :)
20:14:21AlexPBut I think I'd prefer to bypass it within by having "make VERSION=$version"
20:14:25AlexPless confusing IMO
20:15:32 Quit stoffel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:15:38*jhMikeS solves problems like TheSeven's by meditating and then things write themselves (my usual esoteric suggestion :)
20:16:31TheSevengevaerts: As a storage guru, do you think it might be an option to completely split the ATA/CE-ATA drivers and have that run in a multidriver setup with runtime detection of the driver to be used?
20:16:35AlexPgevaerts: What would you prefer?
20:17:52gevaertsAlexP: whatever works, I'd say
20:18:34 Quit Izzy_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:19:03AlexPgevaerts: I think I'll make the change then - it is then obvious where it comes from, and I can also do it in trunk so we know for next time without affecting normal builds
20:19:46gevaertsTheSeven: if you have e.g. ceata_* functions, and you patch them in to storage.[ch] the normal way, and ata_num_drives() says 0 and ceata_num_drives() says 1, I think things will work with CONFIG_STORAGE_MULTI
20:19:56gevaertsAlexP: ok
20:20:05TheSevengevaerts: do we want that?
20:20:32TheSevenit sounds a bit like a waste
20:20:55gevaertsIt wastes a few hundred bytes, yes. Do you care on a 64MB player?
20:21:41gevaertsAlexP: looks ok to me
20:27:14CIA-70New commit by alex (r29358): * Keep the map files instead of building then throwing them away in the release script. ...
20:27:33CIA-70New commit by alex (r29359): * Keep the map files instead of building then throwing them away in the release script. ...
20:28:01[Saint]AlexP: just for releases?
20:28:04TheSevenAlexP: do we keep the elf files as well?
20:28:12[Saint]it'd be nice for dailies too.
20:28:22AlexP[Saint]: Just for releases
20:28:28AlexPdailies are dealt with elsewhere
20:28:38AlexPTheSeven: We don't currently
20:28:48TheSevenmight make sense though, especially for releases
20:28:55gevaertsTheSeven: patches welcome :)
20:28:56[Saint]when users come in with "data abort at: XXXXXX"'d be nice to be able to do something about it.
20:29:04AlexPDo they get produced as part of the normal make, or is it a separate make something?
20:29:14TheSeventhey can sometimes be very helpful for tracking down hard-to-reproduce bugs
20:29:24gevaertsAlexP: they're there
20:29:33AlexPOK, so I just need to copy them
20:29:52AlexPshould be easy enough :)
20:30:24AlexPjust rockbox.elf?
20:30:45gevaertsThe plugin and code elf files might be useful too
20:31:02AlexPI don't suppose we have a make elfzip or something?
20:31:13gevaertsPossibly not :)
20:31:16CIA-70r29358 build result: All green
20:31:47[Saint]so, is the inclusion (or not throwing away, rather) of this files going to be specific to release/RC builds?
20:31:48gevaertsCopying the mapzip bit in tools/root.make should be trivial though
20:32:22gevaerts[Saint]: it's specific to tools/release/
20:32:47[Saint]it'd just be very nice to have a .map file included in dailies too IMO
20:32:59AlexPIt isn't included in
20:33:00gevaertsWhile we can bully AlexP into providing them for releases, I don't think we'd get him to add them everywhere
20:33:07[Saint]then data aborts actually mean something.
20:33:15AlexPI'm just going to look at adding elfzip
20:33:54jhMikeS[Saint]: The subject had come up ever since I've been around here...still no maps :)
20:34:16[Saint]ok...perhaps not include them in the .zip, but archive them surely?
20:34:25AlexP[Saint]: Feel free
20:34:26[Saint]throwing them away seems such a waste.
20:34:35kugelAlexP: "find . -name "*.elf" | xargs zip" works without hacking the makefile
20:34:47AlexPkugel: In perl?
20:34:51kugelbut we probably want it in the makefile for the future
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20:34:57gevaertskugel: sure, but "make mapzip" works
20:35:02kugelAlexP: in the terminal :)
20:35:07gevaertsDoing elf differently isn't good in the long term
20:35:12AlexPthis is my point
20:35:17AlexPanyway it looks easy to add
20:35:51AlexP$(SILENT)find . -name "*.elf" | xargs zip
20:36:01[Saint]jhMikeS: it's my second attempt at mentioning it, just thought I'd jump on the "hey, these files can actually be useful" bandwagon.
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20:38:06AlexPexcept that doesn't work :)
20:38:08AlexPone mo
20:38:19gevaertshm, is that tab right?
20:38:26AlexPexactly :)
20:38:43kugelmake needs tabs IIRC
20:38:47AlexPmy editor tricked me
20:39:01AlexPI have it set to put spaces when I press tab :)
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20:39:35kugelmy editor has an exception hardcoded just for make stuff :)
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20:40:57AlexPthat works
20:41:05wodzDo we have general sd/mmc framework or things like card initialization is reimplemented in every target in target tree?
20:42:50kugelwodz: there's an sd.c
20:42:51 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:44:35wodzkugel: have you looked into it :-)
20:44:43kugelnot recently, no
20:45:10 Quit kugel (Quit: leaving)
20:48:25wodzwell there is also drivers/ata_mmc.c which contains SH specific bits
20:49:51wodzhmm and exponent/mantisa arrays defined in sd.c as well
20:51:18 Quit dewdroid (Quit: Bye)
20:54:06wodzAny objections to move drivers/ata_mmc.c into target tree? 1) It contains SH specific bits 2) It is used only by ondiofm and ondiosp
20:56:58CIA-70New commit by alex (r29360): Add "elfzip" target to make which creates a zip of all elf files, as mapzip does for map files.
20:57:09CIA-70New commit by alex (r29361): Add "elfzip" target to make which creates a zip of all elf files, as mapzip does for map files.
21:00:48CIA-70r29360 build result: All green
21:07:11 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
21:07:44CIA-70New commit by alex (r29362): Also build and keep elfs zip file for the release.
21:07:55CIA-70New commit by alex (r29363): Also build and keep elfs zip file for the release.
21:12:04CIA-70r29362 build result: All green
21:14:24AlexPDammit, where did kugel go
21:14:57AlexPI want to know what revision I'm about to revert
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21:25:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:26:49CIA-70New commit by alex (r29364): Revert r29327 - "Implement cooperative threads on hosted platforms using C code" on the release branch. Thanks to kugel for the patch.
21:27:15AlexPRight, time to rebuild the RCs :)
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22:05:24[Saint]pixelma: did you ever get very far with your Cygwin/Android trials? Or, start it at all?
22:05:43[Saint]it'd be interesting to know if it's just me that's cursed.
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22:38:26pixelma[Saint]: never really tried as I can use a linux box for this now
23:08:52*TheSeven swears at that ipod video ata hack
23:09:06TheSeventhis is getting in my way rather badly :/
23:10:54 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
23:15:17 Quit GeekShad0w (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
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23:18:29jhMikeSTheSeven: why enable it? it's only for that target. the criteria should be changed.
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23:19:48TheSevenit's tied deeply into the code
23:20:07TheSevenand currently i use it for the ata variant of the drive
23:20:18jhMikeSsay what? it's basically mutex substitute
23:20:40jhMikeSdoes it matter on that target?
23:20:49TheSevenhuh? i mean that phys_sector_mult hack
23:21:50jhMikeSoh, blah, you said "ata hack" and I was thinking about that locking thing for the video lol
23:23:48 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me))
23:25:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:25:58AlexPgevaerts: Did we stick the RCs on the RB server last time? I assume so
23:26:17gevaertsgood question...
23:26:38TheSevengevaerts: I'm wondering if i should just leave the ATA driver alone, plug emcore's driver instead, and define SECTOR_SIZE to 4096
23:26:52AlexPgevaerts: I can upload them somewhere, but can't host them myself
23:27:03gevaertsTheSeven: and play hunt-the-stack-overflow again? :)
23:27:41*TheSeven wouldn't hesitate to kill those on-stack buffers as well
23:28:29TheSevenemcore is using a fork of the rockbox fat driver where i have eliminated them the hard way
23:28:57TheSeveni.e. have one static sector buffer for the fat code that is protected by a mutex
23:31:14TheSeventhe question is if we want that
23:32:16TheSevenit might hinder (in terms of slowdown) concurrent accesses on multidrive devices in some very rare cases (e.g. files can't be renamed on multiple drives in parallel)
23:32:53gevaertsCould we do per-drive or per-volume buffers?
23:33:07TheSevenin theory yes, but i don't think it makes sense
23:33:33TheSevenit's a waste of memory compared to its tiny effect
23:33:34gevaertsThe option is there in case we actually have issues
23:33:55gevaertsBut is it really only multidrive?
23:34:05gevaertsI mean, what if two threads are reading different files?
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23:34:35TheSeventhat shared buffer is only used in very rare cases like renaming files or some such, I don't remember the details
23:34:40TheSevennot for regular file I/O
23:34:56gevaertsah, ok
23:35:00TheSevenprobably also for updating fsinfo
23:37:59TheSevengevaerts: it's used while mounting partitions, updating fsinfo, writing directory entries, creating directories and renaming files
23:39:21TheSevenand i managed to arrange things in a way that prevents conflicts between those operations
23:39:37TheSevene.g. renaming files only needs it while it's not writing directory entries
23:41:28gevaertsThat seems sane enough
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23:50:43 Quit John (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
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23:57:21Luca_Show strange
23:57:34Luca_SI just updated to latest svn and mp3 metadata display seems broken
23:57:51[Saint]how so?
23:58:29Luca_S(fuzev2 here). loads some letters, others show as "dotted boxes", after skipping a few songs it shows something that resembles a GUID
23:58:50CIA-70New commit by theseven (r29365): Calibrate iPod Classic battery gauge a bit better

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