#rockbox 2011-02-22

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#rockbox log for 2011-02-22

00:01:24		Part domonoky
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00:20:34	*	TheSeven just booted rockbox on a ce-ata ipod :)
00:20:53	TheSeven	that low sleep resolution is driving me nuts
00:21:02	TheSeven	ce-ata is dog slow because of it
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00:25:08	*	TheSeven throws a fat patch at gevaerts
00:25:21	TheSeven	yes, a fat fat patch
00:25:33	[Saint]	thud
00:25:45	[Saint]	or squish?
00:28:00		Join christoph_guest [0] (~cf268210@giant.haxx.se)
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00:31:52	christoph_guest	hi all, when building rockbox for android, how can I choose which fonts will be part of the application?
00:32:07	*	TheSeven wants �s resolution sleeps
00:32:33	christoph_guest	I tried to figure this out, but had no luck. any hints would be much appreciated
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00:34:20	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:37:44	[Saint]	christoph_guest: If you're not a coder, the easiest way is to do "make zip" then take that .zip out and cherry-pick what you want, re-.zip it, and then do "make .apk" with the zip you've edited.
00:38:18	[Saint]	basically, remove what you don't want from the .zip file before the .apk is generated.
00:38:46	[Saint]	s/remove/add/
00:39:13	[Saint]	gah, add/remove/whatever...but, that's most likely the easiest way for you to do it.
00:39:41	pixelma	make fullzip will include all fonts
00:40:12	[Saint]	pixelma: you can't make an .apk out of fullzip can you?
00:40:20	pixelma	no idea
00:40:24	[Saint]	or, can you do "fullzip" in an app build?
00:40:29	[Saint]	I don't think so.
00:40:33	christoph_guest	thanks. i tried make fullzip but the resulting apk did not work - the app crashed after starting
00:40:57	[Saint]	yeah...I didn't think it worked with fullzip, tried that a while ago myself.
00:41:06	[Saint]	it would make the .apk HUGE if it did, though.
00:41:13	pixelma	but with a make zip you'll only get the fonts needed by the included themes which can be next to none based on the resolution
00:41:30	[Saint]	correct...I just put the fonts on the SD.
00:41:42	[Saint]	no point in having them clog internal memory.
00:41:43	pixelma	I'd do so too
00:41:56	christoph_guest	i'm using the current svn snapshot and building for 240x320
00:42:08	christoph_guest	only 3 fonts can be selected
00:42:24	[Saint]	huh?
00:42:34	[Saint]	you can have all the fonts you want...
00:43:01	christoph_guest	I guess I can, just have not figured out how
00:43:21	[Saint]	put them on the SD.
00:43:30	[Saint]	as we said, there's no point including them in the .apk
00:43:33	pixelma	well, yes - it's possible that for this resolution there well be three fonts included
00:43:37	[Saint]	you're wasting internal storage.
00:43:55	christoph_guest	ok. thanks for your help.
00:44:07	[Saint]	just put your fonts in "/sdcard/rockbox/fonts/
00:44:09	[Saint]	"
00:44:19	christoph_guest	I was confused of the lack of a .rockbox directory
00:44:33	christoph_guest	ok, now it's obvious
00:44:41	[Saint]	"rockbox" on the SD card is .rockbox, basically.
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00:54:59	christoph_guest	Copying the fonts directory to /sdcard/rockbox/ had the result that there are no fonts listed in the setting menu and some relatively small font is the default
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00:56:25	pixelma	did you put them into a "fonts" subdirectory there - just as if it would be inside a .rockbox directory on another target?
00:56:37	pixelma	you may have to create it first
00:56:38	christoph_guest	yes
00:57:02	christoph_guest	I copied the entire directory, not its content
00:57:24	christoph_guest	I mean not only its content
00:59:28		Join MadDecent [0] (~MDDCNT@c-24-23-57-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
00:59:46	pixelma	and you took it from ... ?
00:59:56	dikforeuno	evening folks. is there an updated buyers guide in another location, by chance? the one on rockbox.org seems not to have been updated since 08.
01:00
01:00:27	christoph_guest	the svn r29348
01:00:31	gevaerts	dikforeuno: unfortunately not
01:01:42	pixelma	christoph_guest: from a build or directly from the source - or basically: what file extension do your font files have?
01:02:32	christoph_guest	they are bdf files
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01:03:55	dikforeuno	does anyone have any recommendations on any mp3 players that i should or shouldn't get? i need to get a new player, and id love to get input from people who have used/are using rockbox. itd be much appreciated.
01:04:24	pixelma	christoph_guest: you need fnt files - which are made from the bdf ones during the build process. I believe there is a package of those available from the "Extras" page on rockbox.org
01:05:24	TheSeven	gevaerts, pamaury, and everybody else who knows the storage subsystem and fat driver well: can you please review http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11958 (especially the parts outside of the target tree)
01:06:00	pixelma	christoph_guest: there they are inside a .rockbox folder though for a "normal" target
01:07:25	pixelma	dikforeuno: a lot depends on personal preferences - storage, display, radio, recording etc. so best to tell yours too
01:08:13	christoph_guest	pixelma: Thank you. I used the Rockbox Extras fonts and everything is fine now.
01:09:07	dikforeuno	thanks pixelma. well, i dont need any recording capability. i'd prefer more storage than less, preferrably at least 32-48 gigs. display doesn't particularly matter, as long as it works. and the one company i wouldn't buy from is apple, because the last 4 ipods i've had have failed on me. radio would be nice, but not necessary.
01:10:52	christoph_guest	dikforeuno: I was going to suggest an IPod Mini 2G with 32GB CF mod - I used it the past 2 years and still love it. But it's an Apple.
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01:11:36	Torne	dikforeuno: most people here who've used ipods would probably say they were very reliable and of generally very good build quality
01:11:39	Torne	so i think you have just been unlucky
01:11:50		Join Keripo1 [0] (~Keripo@eng341.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu)
01:11:51	Torne	also, the older ipods are very well supported and stable by rockbox
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01:12:20	dikforeuno	christop_guest/torne: right on, appreciate the preference. if they hadn't constantly failed on me, i'd be more open. but i don't feel like i wanna spend money on another ipod for it to die in a year or so, which has constantly happened.
01:12:23	pixelma	dikforeuno: maybe one of the newer Sansa players together with a 32GB microSD, those are also the most "recent" ones in terms of production line
01:13:12	Torne	lvs
01:13:14	Torne	oops
01:13:17	dikforeuno	pixelma: do you have one of those? any particular Sansa player?
01:13:33	Torne	clip+ or fuze, are the recent ones with microsd slots
01:13:43	Torne	note not the fuze+ which is not supported
01:13:57	Torne	(totally different hardware)
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01:14:02	pixelma	no, I don't (well actually I do have but only one of an older production line)
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01:15:10	dikforeuno	ok. thank you very much for the suggestions everyone. have a good night
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01:17:49	Llorean	Is anyone else seeing the forums as quite broken?
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01:18:36	gevaerts	Llorean: in what way? I don't immediately see anything special
01:19:09	Llorean	I'm seeing a bunch of broken images.
01:19:12	pixelma	looks fine to me, maybe the css didn't load for you - which I do get sometimes but fixes itself with a refresh
01:19:25	Llorean	I've refreshed a few times
01:19:51	Llorean	I don't see any borders around the tables, and several images are missing.
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01:34:30	Mouser_X	I have a question - My computer will connect to my GigabeaSt when I use the Bootloader USB, but if Rockbox is already up and running, and I connect it to the PC, my PC fails to interface with it properly.
01:34:50	Mouser_X	What's the biggest difference between the Bootloader USB, and the regular one?
01:35:03	gevaerts	Do you have HID enabled?
01:35:08	Mouser_X	As in, why would it work on my PC from the Bootloader, but not from within Rockbox itself?
01:35:23	Mouser_X	I don't know. How can I tell?
01:35:32	Mouser_X	(I can't check now. It's at a different location)
01:35:43	christoph_guest	I would like to edit one of the existing fonts and add more white space above and below each character to make touch screen navigation easier while maintaining the number of characters per line. Has anybody here worked with bdf files before?
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01:35:47	gevaerts	it's in the settings somewhere
01:36:34	Mouser_X	Thanks, I'll be sure to look. I need to leave right now (I thought I'd be on longer...)
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01:38:49	gevaerts	christoph_guest: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20110220#17:37:26 and further
01:39:16	gevaerts	Hopefully you can figure it out :)
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01:40:46	mynamewick	hi
01:41:14	christoph_guest	gevaerts: thanks for pointing that out
01:41:42	gevaerts	christoph_guest: if you have more questions, I guess talking to [Saint] is the best option. He seems to know
01:42:05	mynamewick	i need help
01:49:30	mynamewick	every time i plug my sansa fuze v2 into my computer, my computer wont recognize it. it did recognize the fuze before i went for dinner, but now when ever i plug in it the fuze just charges and it goes to the regular operating system rather then rockbox. i can still get to rockbox by turning it on and off while unplugged though.
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01:53:24	crw	Hey, out of curiosity, has anyone decided on a release date for 3.8 yet?
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02:05:13	mynamewick	3.8 will probably come out in a week from yesterday https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=rockbox.calendar@gmail.com
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02:13:28	crw	For any developers interested, I've posted FS #11959, which allows the button/wheel lights to indicate disk activity like a USB flash drive would
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02:34:24	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:44:52	CIA-70	New commit by moos (r29373): Add Ismael Castiñeira Álvarez to the credits and on the galego translation files ...
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02:45:02	JdGordon\|	crw: isnt that incredibly annoying? :)
02:45:16	JdGordon\|	you're talking about the e200 and its stupidly bright light?
02:46:59	CIA-70	New commit by moos (r29374): Add Ismael Castiñeira Álvarez to the credits and on the galego translation files ...
02:49:08	CIA-70	r29373 build result: All green
02:52:47	crw	JdGordon: I find it kind of useful, actually, so I don't have to turn on the screen to see whether or not the disk is in use.
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02:53:25	crw	I mean, to see if it's safe to disconnect
02:53:28	JdGordon\|	you really should safelt unmount the drive anyway
02:56:08	crw	The scenario: I started copying files (in Windows) to my Sansa, turned off the monitors, am ready to grab it and go out the door as soon as its done.
02:56:28	crw	I guess I'm the only one here so far who finds it useful
03:00
03:00:47	JdGordon\|	i didnt say it wasnt useful, I merely asked if it wasnt incredibly annoying
03:00:55	JdGordon\|	but then I dont like bright flashing blue LEDs
03:01:17	JdGordon\|	also that you sholdnt rely on that to know when it is safe to remove
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03:02:59	crw	Hmm... I would say that the light is pretty bright compared to the Fuze's, but I never found it annoying. Oh well.
03:04:51	crw	I've always waited for the status bar's activity icon to go away before unplugging, never had any problems with that. The idea is that the wheel light replicates that. It was just a little more annoying having to come back and move the wheel to see the screen every couple minutes.
03:05:35	crw	I should say that that only applies to Windows. Yeah, not properly unmounting in Linux does cause problems
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03:20:50	semitones	hello −− I didn't see this question in the faq but −− what is the first thing to do when rockbox starts crashing following a pattern
03:22:40	krazykit	write up method to reproduce the issue and file a bug
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03:45:24	semitones	krazykit, I don't know what caused it, it's just sometimes I'll turn it on, start playing music change the volume, then it crashes, reboots, and acts as if none of that ever happened (can't resume, volume is back to what it was, etc.)
03:45:38	semitones	I was hoping I could just update rockbox and maybe it would stop doing that
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04:00
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04:05:25	semitones	"Rockbox can be easily updated with Rockbox Utility." how
04:05:26	semitones	?
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04:08:16	semitones	all i see is install not update
04:09:37	Mouser_X	For Rockbox, it's essentially the same thing.
04:09:52	Mouser_X	Meaning, to update Rockbox, you'd do the same thing you would to install it.
04:09:58	semitones	oh ok
04:10:02	semitones	thanks :)
04:10:56	Mouser_X	More or less. Basically, you're just reinstalling it (but you don't need to reformat, or change the settings, or stuff like that).
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05:51:03	Mouser_X	Hypothetical question: If I were to pay/hire someone to write a code for Rockbox, what would be a reasonable amount? The codec in question is OGG (which already exists), which loops (like ADX files currently do).
05:51:28	Mouser_X	There's actually a suprirsing number of OGG files with loop points "built-in" to their tags.
05:51:51	Mouser_X	They play just fine as OGG files already, but obviously, they don't loop in Rockbox.
05:52:08	Mouser_X	*write a codec
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08:11:14	CIA-70	New commit by Buschel (r29375): Fix FS #11956. Call parse_replaygain() with correct parameters in ID3 tag parsing.
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08:15:20	CIA-70	r29375 build result: All green
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08:44:18	CIA-70	New commit by Buschel (r29376): Proper initialize dummy destination address to ensure correct functionality for replaygain in mp4 metadata.
08:44:44	Buschel	these metadata parsers ar a pain in the ass :/
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08:47:56	CIA-70	r29376 build result: All green
08:52:23	CIA-70	New commit by Buschel (r29377): Submit FS11960. Limit metadata item size like done for ID3 tags since r29174.
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10:45:59	pixelma	AlexP: while you seem to be around - spam in the forums by rh6sxuofmn
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11:56:56	amoe	hey, I know that Fuze does not support rockbox USB mode yet. Starting the original firmware with an 8GB SDHC card in seems to freeze it. Is it necessary to use a card reader to use SDHC with Fuze?
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12:02:20	Torne	amoe: yes
12:02:58	gevaerts	Isn't the OF on the fuze supposed to handle sdhc?
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12:07:02	amoe	Hmm, manual says the OF should handle it
12:07:22	amoe	'SDHC 4GB and higher' mine is Sandisk 8GB
12:12:28	Torne	ah
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12:25:11	amoe	forums are full of people moaning, seems OF is very picky about SDHC
12:25:52	*	amoe goes out to buy a card reader :/
12:28:13	pixelma	I was under the impression that Rockbox USB works on the Fuzev1 - but I'm not sure and don't have such a device and I don't see a mention whether you are talking about a v1 or a v2
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12:36:29	n1s	pixelma: it does work on fuzev1
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14:58:22	CIA-70	New commit by mc2739 (r29378): Return valid tuner ID even when tuner is not detected properly. Fixes FS #11791
15:00
15:02:15	CIA-70	r29378 build result: All green
15:03:09	CIA-70	New commit by mc2739 (r29379): Return valid tuner ID even when tuner is not detected properly. Fixes FS #11791
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15:14:39	TheSeven	gevaerts: Ping
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15:18:17	gevaerts	TheSeven: pong?
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15:27:04	mshathlonxp	does lines "user:" in lang file indicate translator of string?
15:27:14	gevaerts	no
15:27:40	mshathlonxp	what is the purpose of it then?
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15:28:39	Torne	it indicates what uses the string
15:28:56	gevaerts	IIRC it's meant to distinguish between core and plugins as soon as we support translated plugins
15:29:05	Torne	yeah. currently it's always "core"
15:29:15	mshathlonxp	ahh
15:29:16	Torne	i guess we'd use the name of the plugin for plugin strings.
15:29:18	Torne	when that's done.
15:29:25	TheSeven	gevaerts: did you have a chance to look at my fat FAT patch?
15:29:28	gevaerts	no
15:29:34	Torne	anyway, you can just leave it alone if you're translating
15:29:34	gevaerts	I'll try tonight
15:30:50	mshathlonxp	can anyone of you explain me function of some functions so I can figure out appropriate translation for them?
15:32:26	mshathlonxp	or I should use manual instead? :D
15:33:41	kugel	mc2739: I wonder what point tuner_detect_type() has if no radio menu is shown even if a type is detected
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16:19:43	mshathlonxp	is MDB feature available on some other players than my nano ipod, or that not longer exists and it's still in language files for compability?
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16:21:06	linuxstb	"MDB" ?
16:21:27	mshathlonxp	6.10 MDB � Micronas Dynamic Bass
16:21:50	mshathlonxp	from some manual found by google, since it's not present in ipod manual
16:22:10	linuxstb	That sounds like a hardware feature in the Archos devices Rockbox supports.
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16:42:33	mshathlonxp	"flash_storage: none" means that this option isn't available for players with flash memory?
16:43:13	linuxstb	Yes
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17:08:08	breakpots	hey, anyone around that can lend a hand?
17:09:08	Zagor	you have pots that need breaking?
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17:10:29	breakpots	it's actually short for breakfest potatoes
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17:17:43	breakpots	fixed it myself.
17:17:52	gevaerts	breakpots: asking specific questions is usually a better idea
17:18:16	breakpots	I didnt even know if anyone was here?
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17:19:51	B4gder	it ended with a question mark so I assume that was the question!
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17:20:50	kugel	his question was quite specific, but I strongly suspect nobody was in the mood to cut off one of his hands to sent him :)
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18:47:30	AlexP	mshathlonxp: Which language are you looking at out of interest?
18:48:49	mshathlonxp	I'm not looking but translating
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18:49:00	mshathlonxp	I can't find latvian here -> http://translate.rockbox.org/ :>
18:49:16	mshathlonxp	currently I'm at about 35%
18:49:54	LambdaCalculus37	mshathlonxp: Are you working on a translation for Latvian? It appears that no one has translated Rockbox to Latvian thus far.
18:50:05	mshathlonxp	where it is?
18:50:16	mshathlonxp	I somehow can't see any
18:50:28	mshathlonxp	I see lituanian and estonian but no latvian
18:50:30	LambdaCalculus37	mshathlonxp: No one has done a translation to Latvian.
18:51:04	mshathlonxp	ptfu
18:51:09	mshathlonxp	I missed the "no"
18:51:09	mshathlonxp	:D
18:51:24	LambdaCalculus37	The page you linked to above shows every current translation available in Rockbox, and how much progress has been done on each language file.
18:51:29	mshathlonxp	yeah, that's why I'm doing it - yesterday bought 1G nano
18:51:46	LambdaCalculus37	Anyone who wishes to translate Rockbox to their native language is more than welcome to do so.
18:52:14	mshathlonxp	I guess current status of baltic languages shows trends there - mp3 is usually played by mobile phones, not mp3 players
18:54:35	AlexP	mshathlonxp: By looking I meant translating
18:55:02	AlexP	well, maybe in the last year ot two
18:55:22	AlexP	But Rockbox has been going for years and years, well before mobile phones could play mp3s
18:55:55	mshathlonxp	I hope I'll finish quick'n'dirty complete translation by end of evening
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18:56:53	mshathlonxp	btw are these language stats estimated automatically by script that compares "source" and "dest" strings?
18:58:09	AlexP	not so much estimated as calculated :)
18:58:15	mshathlonxp	I guess 10 years ago walkmans were used and CD players were just becoming whidespread :>
18:58:34	mshathlonxp	ah, then I presume lituanian translation could be complete, despite it shows 89%
18:59:35	AlexP	No, it is missing quite a lot
18:59:40	mshathlonxp	are u sure?
18:59:41	LambdaCalculus37	mshathlonxp: The Lithuanian translation is mostly complete. 89.07% of all required strings are in the file. If anyone wants to fill in the gaps, they can.
18:59:58	AlexP	And there are bits where the English has changed so someone needs to check if the translation needs to change too
19:00
19:00:04	mshathlonxp	well, if that percentage is estimated by script, mine won't be "complete" as well
19:00:09	AlexP	mshathlonxp: Yes, click on it
19:00:19	AlexP	To be complete all strings need to be translated
19:00:26	AlexP	The script just looks at that
19:00:49	mshathlonxp	and that's the problem - I guess lituanians have it the same as we, latvians - we got a lot of words directly from english
19:00:54	mshathlonxp	I mean technical words
19:01:09	mshathlonxp	for example, karaoke
19:01:23	n1s	isn't that japanese
19:01:24	AlexP	Which is japanese
19:01:36	mshathlonxp	whatever, it's used in english anyway
19:01:48	AlexP	But in any case, if that is what you use then that is what you should put
19:01:59	mshathlonxp	I know
19:02:04	mshathlonxp	we got another problem
19:02:17	mshathlonxp	our linguists are retards
19:03:04	mshathlonxp	I guess most advanced PC users, like me, aren't using win latvian language pack, because there's a lot of words that aren't used in common language and like that
19:06:15	pixelma	a translated string counts if the "phrase" is there even if the word is exactly the same as the English. This is in the internal ".lang" file you won't see at translate.rokbox.org probably. The "same as" will be listed under "problems" if you click on the ! icon - you can ignore some if you know that it's what people use in this language but sometimes it helps to find overlooked things or maybe unnecessary anglicisms
19:10:50	mshathlonxp	can't find that in manual - *: "Building database... %d found (OFF to return)" - does "to return" means "cancel" here?
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19:15:13	n1s	mshathlonxp: no, just to go back to the menu
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19:16:22	mshathlonxp	so it continues to build database in background?
19:19:29	mshathlonxp	or it's already created?
19:19:52	n1s	yes, continues in the background
19:23:29	LambdaCalculus37	Excellent, the GoGear HDD16x0 and HDD63x0 ports install with Rockbox Utility without issue. I shall enable them in SVN then! :)
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19:48:28	kugel	dionoea: ping
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20:09:17	mshathlonxp	what is "Remote While Playing Screen"?
20:09:50	stephen___	the while playing screen for remotes for devices that have remotes
20:11:56	pixelma	with an own display
20:20:33	AlexP	mshathlonxp: Some remote controls have an lcd screen
20:20:53	mshathlonxp	I got that from previous two posts ;)
20:21:02	AlexP	I just wanted to clarify :)
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20:22:51	IuDeX	hello
20:23:05	IuDeX	one question. Can I find on rockox site a 3.8RC changelog?
20:23:13	AlexP	Not yet
20:23:25	AlexP	I haven't got round to writing the release notes yet
20:23:32	gevaerts	The MajorChanges wiki page should be reasonably accurate
20:23:32	IuDeX	okay, thanks ;)
20:23:35	AlexP	You can look at the MajorChanges wiki page
20:23:47	IuDeX	any big changes?
20:24:04	AlexP	Have a look at MajorChanges :)
20:24:16	IuDeX	ok:)
20:24:23	AlexP	(i.e. I can't remember) :)
20:24:47	gevaerts	I'll say yes. Just don't ask me what those changes are :)
20:24:54	AlexP	I lose track of what was committed when
20:25:16	IuDeX	:)
20:25:34	IuDeX	The best way : download and install
20:25:44	AlexP	yeah, give it a go :)
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20:25:55	gevaerts	Ah yes, embedded album art for mp3 is the big one I guess
20:26:10	IuDeX	On clip+? Noo. ;)
20:26:24	gevaerts	You didn't specify clip+!
20:26:33	IuDeX	Yes, I know that ;p
20:29:57	pixelma	hmm, how does pictureflow deal with embedded album art?
20:30:24	AlexP	I don't think it does
20:30:45	AlexP	I remember asking kugel this when it was committed, but I can't remember the answer exactly
20:30:48		Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
20:31:43	linuxstb	AlexP: I think I remember him saying it didn't work in pictureflow, and that he was looking at it. Don't know if he ever did though. The problem was that pictureflow deals with album artwork, not track artwork.
20:32:09	AlexP	I think he looked at it then discovered it was harder than he had thought
20:32:12	kugel	AlexP: you committed yourself (to the manual) that it doesn't :)
20:32:30	AlexP	kugel: Don't expose my frailties :)
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20:33:38	kugel	it's not hard as in hard to write, but it's hard since pf relies on the db only and not on metadata parsers
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20:34:24	kugel	making it ask the metadata parsers requires enabling albumart in a few places in the core which is not nice for mono targets
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20:35:03	kugel	and will slow down thumbnail generation quite a bit
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20:52:47	thomasjfox_	linuxstb: I'll switch the maemo port to windowed mode. Testing it for some days now and it really integrates nicely into maemo.
20:53:18		Quit Zambezi (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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20:53:35	thomasjfox_	linuxstb: Screen resolution will drop from 800x480 to 800x420 on the n900, currently working on a "new" cabbie port
20:53:56	TheSeven	is it normal that rockbox (svn head as of yesterday) very briefly spins down the disk at the track boundaries while buffering?
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20:56:15	amiconn	thomasjfox_: Why not just offer the standard maemo functions (switch to chooser and close) as part of an .sbs?
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20:57:08	thomasjfox_	amiconn: They are not available in the root and other menus
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20:58:21	amiconn	Hmm, they are not? I would expect .sbs to work in every screen that has a status bar
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20:58:21	thomasjfox	amiconn: If rockbox gets stuck for whatevery reason, people wouldn't know how to close it
20:58:40	amiconn	File browser(s), all menus, and most info screens
20:59:03	pixelma	the sbs is
20:59:13		Quit {phoenix} (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:59:13	thomasjfox	amiconn: Ah ok, .sbs files are for the status bar. Didn't know that
20:59:24	amiconn	"status bar skin" or somesuch
21:00
21:00:17	mshathlonxp	what is "Line Selector Type" ?
21:00:17	amiconn	Nowadays the status bar can even (almost) replace the wps afaiu
21:00:17	thomasjfox	can the status bar f.e. be 60 pixels large?
21:00:17	AlexP	as big as you want
21:00:17	*	linuxstb would be happy with just the standard maemo status bar - no desire to customise it
21:00:24	amiconn	Never tried it, but iirc gevaerts has such a "wps bar" on his gigabeat
21:00:51	AlexP	mshathlonxp: You can either have inverted colours that tell you what line of a list you are on, or a little arrow just to the left of the selected line
21:01:22	thomasjfox	I'll try to create a screenshot of my current work
21:01:22	pixelma	kugel: do you know something about the separate %Vf/b ("viewport" colour) tags? I think I remember you having to do with it but I am not sure
21:01:22	gevaerts	I'd say that on touchscreen targets, the sbs can replace the sbs, and on big screens it may even make sense to not switch to the wps at all
21:01:22	amiconn	AlexP: Or custom colours, or a colour gradient
21:01:28	mshathlonxp	is this talk about "rockbox app" for something?
21:01:56	thomasjfox	yes
21:01:56	pixelma	gevaerts: the sbs can replace the sbs?
21:01:56	AlexP	thomasjfox: See e.g. http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1146&target=ipodvideo
21:02:28	AlexP	picked at random from the theme site
21:02:28	gevaerts	pixelma: in a very obvious way :)
21:02:28	gevaerts	It can also replace the wps
21:03:00	thomasjfox	AlexP: Looking good
21:03:23	thomasjfox	The standard mameo status bar though features maemo-wide plugins
21:05:25	amiconn	I know, but then rockbox has its own style that doesn't match general maemo style very well
21:06:31	amiconn	There are several maemo apps that do what I suggested (namely most, if not all, games and gadgets by Offscreen)
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21:12:35	AlexP	Is svn working for people?
21:13:21	thomasjfox	AlexP: Not for me :(
21:13:42	AlexP	thomasjfox: At least it isn't just me
21:13:42	thomasjfox	AlexP: Working again :)
21:14:01	AlexP	still not here
21:14:15	AlexP	I wonder if there is something flaky on the route
21:15:23	AlexP	I can't get to the website either
21:17:14	CIA-70	New commit by thomasjfox (r29380): Improve SDL port 'configure −−prefix' error message
21:17:14	kugel	thomasjfox: what I planned for android is to show the statusbar in the main menu (leveraging custom UI viewport), and hide it in the wps
21:17:14	kugel	or rather, make the host statusbar an additional option in the existing statusbars
21:20:11	CIA-70	r29380 build result: All green
21:20:24	pixelma	kugel: did you see my question before?
21:23:52	thomasjfox	Screenshot using windowed mode on real n900 hardware: http://tinypic.com/r/1el37c/7
21:24:11	kugel	pixelma: I think these tags exist
21:25:47	pixelma	sure, but do you know anything about their inner working? I'm asking because I think it's slightly odd that they now only seem to take effect in used parts of the viewport. But your answer sounds like you don't, nevermind then
21:26:46	kugel	pixelma: I just answered it, no? If not I didn't see another question
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21:27:23	kugel	thomasjfox: is there a way to switch between fullscreen and windowed at runtime?
21:27:52	thomasjfox	kugel: So some screens will have the host status bar and some not?
21:28:26	mshathlonxp	what is "Clear Backdrop"?
21:28:26	thomasjfox	IIRC gevaerts once said rockbox shouldn't take over the OS. It really feels a lot more integrated with the host status bar
21:28:26	kugel	pixelma: yep, no idea how they work
21:28:57	pixelma	ok, I misremembered then :/
21:28:57	*	gevaerts denies everyting!
21:29:03	mshathlonxp	:D
21:29:33	pixelma	mshathlonxp: it removes the background picture in menus etc. if there is one set
21:31:14	mshathlonxp	btw what's the reason to port rockbox on mobiles, apart from continuity - isn't there any enough good audio players for them already?
21:31:34	thomasjfox	kugel: We could teach that to the SDL port
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21:35:25	Xerion	the build of rockbox on my android phone is still the only player that plays my files properly over the network from a mounted samba chare :P
21:35:25	Xerion	share*
21:35:25	Xerion	so there's that :D
21:35:25	gevaerts	Nearly none of the others support monkey's audio :)
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21:37:13	thomasjfox	amiconn: Take a look at the screenshot, cabbiev2 integrates nicely into the maemo look
21:37:37	kugel	I think I remember you could color each line in a vp differently with it, but I'm not very sure
21:37:38	kugel	thomasjfox: overtaking seems a bit exaggerated :)
21:38:00	kugel	Xerion: the others dont?
21:38:02	kugel	we dont apply any magic
21:38:05	kugel	gevaerts: they have a good reason :)
21:38:05	kugel	thomasjfox: you could adjust that in the lcd backend I suppose
21:38:08	thomasjfox	kugel: Well, it didn't find a way to exit it on the n800 with the stock task switcher :o)
21:38:11	kugel	e.g. if (statusbar) y += statusbar_height, height -= statusbar_height
21:38:17	kugel	and act as if the top pixel rows are hidden by the statusbar to the rest of the code
21:38:26	mshathlonxp	"Reduce Ticking" is what - reduce blinking of remote's LCD?
21:38:32	AlexP	mshathlonxp: We think not, otherwise we wouldn't be bothering
21:38:34		Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
21:38:41	AlexP	mshathlonxp: no, audible ticking
21:38:46	Xerion	none that I have tried, most will not even allow you to set folders apart from sdcard, and the ones that do don't buffer enough
21:39:04	AlexP	mshathlonxp: Some H100 remotes have a ticking noise, this attempts to reduce it
21:39:16	Xerion	also there's the equalizer, and replaygain...
21:39:22	mshathlonxp	something like ipod's click?
21:39:26	thomasjfox	kugel: So we would still need a 800x420 theme and fill up the other 60 pixels in fullscreen mode with a custom status bar.
21:39:29	AlexP	no, you don't want this
21:39:38	Xerion	more like line noise :P
21:39:43	AlexP	It is a faint rythmic inteference
21:41:31	Llorean	mshathlonxp: Since the LCD updates and the audio go down cables wrapped so close, there can be interference in the audio, so it attempts to update the LCD less often so that you get less noise, if I understand correctly
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21:46:41	pixelma	kugel: yes, you can. I still think that once set it should be used on all "lines" following in the viewport or until set differently, now they seem to be ignored on unused lines (if you don't "fill" the viewport complety), I can work around by adding blank lines but I find it a waste and illogical. But thanks for listening :)
21:47:24		Quit Keripo (Client Quit)
21:47:27	kugel	what is an unused line?
21:50:46	TheSeven	hm, why is emcore like 100 times faster when accessing the disk than rockbox?
21:50:55	TheSeven	maybe because it has 10000 times the timer resolution?
21:51:26	pixelma	kugel: where there is nothing specified in the WPS - e.g. I only set one line with , let's say, artist info and nothing else but my viewport is 40 pixels tall and I use a 10 pixels tall font. Everything below the first 10 pixels ignore %Vf/b
21:52:28	kugel	pixelma: what should be there to take the colors?
21:53:21	pixelma	I'd expect the bakground colour (%Vb) to be shown still
21:53:22	kugel	thomasjfox: I don't understand
21:53:30	pixelma	background too
21:53:32		Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
21:53:33	kugel	pixelma: ah so that's without backdrop?
21:53:43	pixelma	yes
21:53:46	kugel	I tend to forget you can do that :)
21:54:05	kugel	I can't help you there I'm afraid
21:54:48	pixelma	yeah, I figured. Still thanks :)
21:56:15	thomasjfox	kugel: I thought you suggested we have a rockbox status bar that can switch between fullscreen and windowed mode. If the windowed mode is active, we would just crop the top 60+ pixels by tweaks in the LCD backend, right?
22:00
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22:00:10	kugel	pixelma: my skin engine time is looong ago ;)
22:00:10	kugel	yes
22:00:10	kugel	crop it transparently to the rest of the code, so it still thinks LCD_HEIGHT is 480
22:00:10	DBUG	Enqueued KICK kugel
22:00:10	kugel	a "800x420" would be a 800x480 theme which doesn't draw into the first 60px
22:02:19	thomasjfox	kugel: The status bar really has to be 60 pixel in height. Otherwise we would crop of the main menu
22:02:42	kugel	that's possible
22:04:11	thomasjfox	is the status bar per theme or independent of themes?
22:04:26	kugel	you can shift the main menu down with the custom UI viewport or an sbs
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22:05:07	kugel	or you hardcode it with a "system statusbar" option
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22:05:47	thomasjfox	hmm. So if you run rockbox without a theme in windowed mode, you lose parts of the main menu...
22:06:08	thomasjfox	I like the transparent crop idea
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22:06:39	thomasjfox	Still have to think about which approach fits best: Either running always in windowed mode or the transparent crop stuff
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22:07:11	thomasjfox	The transparent crop mode requires more modifications to existing themes and will make theme creation a bit more complex.
22:07:26	kugel	thomasjfox: the second is certainly more flexible. a theme could still always show the statusbar
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22:08:37	kugel	thomasjfox: not necessarily; if it's an additional statusbar option (next to the existing top, bottom and custom otions), then a theme can enable/disable them with %we/%wd
22:09:22	kugel	the menus would have a fixed shift downwards (there's already STATUSBAR_HEIGHT used in the code to do that with the classic statusbar)
22:11:48	amiconn	thomasjfox: The .sbs doesn't need to be 60 pixels tall. Any value will work, as long as it provides the necessary controls using sufficiently recognisable icons. That's my point - fullscreen offers better control for themers
22:11:49	thomasjfox	So that would be the most flexible route. The normal maemo fullscreen/windowed mode switcher is usually at the bottom
22:12:41	thomasjfox	amiconn, kugel: ok ok, I'll give it a test run the next days :)
22:12:55		Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
22:13:25	kugel	thomasjfox: I'll also have a look tomorrow. showing androids statusbar is also on my todo list
22:13:29	thomasjfox	can the sbs have viewports at arbitraty positions like the wps?
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22:15:21	thomasjfox	kugel: cool
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22:20:51	Ctcp	Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:20:51	*	[7] wonders why people are objecting to a tickless �sec-resolution kernel
22:21:48	[7]	replacing sleep(1); with udelay(1000); in one place increased disk transfer speed by a factor of ~10, but greatly increased CPU load
22:21:48	Bagder	are "people" ?
22:22:25	[7]	Bagder: the last time i suggested it, someone didn't like the idea of unifying sleep/current_timestamp resolution to 1�s instead of 10ms
22:23:29	[7]	we're at ~1MB/s now
22:23:41	amiconn	kiss...
22:23:56	[7]	emcore manages to do 40MB/s... I'll need to figure out where that remaining difference is coming from
22:23:56	amiconn	And why would we need µsec resolution?
22:24:12	Bagder	I would also perhaps say that a sleep() in those places sound wrong
22:24:21	Bagder	no matter what resolution
22:24:32	*	amiconn agrees with Bagder
22:24:35		Quit esperegu (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:24:43	[7]	why waste 200000 CPU cycles while waiting for the MMC controller?
22:25:01	[7]	>1000�s wastes time, <1000�s is unstable
22:25:44	[7]	Bagder: how else would you handle that case?
22:25:58	amiconn	Short sleep() is more overhead than just busy-waiting. And the cpu isn't wasted - you're supposed to yield()
22:26:20	[7]	yield() doesn't guarantee that it blocks for long enough
22:26:32	[7]	and it isn't more efficient overhead-wise than sleep either
22:26:52	[7]	for things like 10�s i perfectly see your point, but not for 1000�s
22:26:54	amiconn	Disk transfers are only happening at a very small fraction of the power-on time
22:27:04	n1s	but sleep may take longer than the number of ticks specified
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22:27:14	[7]	n1s: which doesn't really hurt
22:27:16	amiconn	I doubt that saving the last mA during those few seconds is relevant
22:27:33		Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection)
22:27:35	[7]	i'm more concerned about the UI being sluggish during disk access
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22:28:22	n1s	[7]: btw, i got a classic now, haven't installed rb yet though
22:28:28	*	amiconn already wrote an mmc driver for rockbox
22:28:46	[7]	i'd expect that this one udelay is responsible for >90% of the total cpu load of the ce-ata driver
22:28:53	amiconn	Why would the ui be sluggish if you yield(), but not if you sleep()?
22:29:24	jhMikeS	yield is more effient than sleep as far as what the scheduler does but keeps the CPU busy, sleep changes lists around
22:29:25	[7]	amiconn: as I said, yielding isn't better than sleeping in any way, except that it might return too early, fucking up the transfer
22:29:44	[7]	hm, strange scheduler :)
22:29:45	saratoga	you can't check a hardware timer to see if its been long enough after yeilding?
22:29:57	saratoga	(don't know whats available on the ipods)
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22:30:13	jhMikeS	[7]: how is that strange. if threads are not removed from the run list, the CPU should not sleep at all
22:30:19	[7]	well, yielding in a loop checking a timer is basically sleeping, right?
22:30:24	jhMikeS	no
22:30:54	jhMikeS	just switches to another thread if another is ready to run, else it just returns
22:31:04	saratoga	well i meant it gives other threads a chance to run if you're worried about starving the UI
22:31:04	[7]	but i don't want the latter part
22:31:10	Torne	yeah; it's busywaiting that hapens to give other threads a chance to run
22:31:22	[7]	and instead of having the thread check if the destination time has been reached, i might as well just block the thread
22:31:24	Torne	so it doesn't murder everyone else's latency but it also dosn't have very much overhead
22:31:35	amiconn	[7]: Hmm, I'd expect the hardware to have a method to tell you the transfer is actually done. That's what the Ondio MMC driver does (polling for the dma end flag, and the ssr empty flag afterwards)
22:31:36	bertrik	if possible, use some interrupt which wakes up a wakeup struct
22:32:02	[7]	amiconn: the transfer itself is interrupt-driven, but there is some nasty delay during transfer setup that seems to be needed
22:32:19	jhMikeS	the scheduler doesn't have alot of overhead itself
22:32:27	[7]	er, only data transfer completion is signaled, not command completion
22:32:47	amiconn	Hmm, only for setup, and then it severely affects transfer rate?
22:33:09	[7]	yes, probably due to ridiculously small transfers being issued
22:33:14	kugel	[7]: various sd driver do busy wait with a yield after some timeout. works just fine
22:34:26	amiconn	Why don't you use open-ended CMD_WRITE_MULTIPLE_BLOCK / CMD_READ_MULTIPLE_BLOCK?
22:34:51	amiconn	One command will continue transferring until you explicitly tell it to stop
22:35:07	[7]	amiconn: that isn't the problem here
22:35:26	kugel	FWIW if you use sleep and it's too high resolution for your needs (and you don't like the scheduler switching threads) then you shouldn't be using sleep() regardless of the resolution (i.e. agree with Bagder and amiconn)
22:35:34	[7]	as soon as data transfers are involved, things are fine
22:38:21	[7]	kugel: I can allow high latency, if something else can do something useful with that CPU time. I just don't want it to block unneccessarily long
22:38:21	jhMikeS	stick a wfi instruction in the code, when it resumes, check the clock
22:38:21	[7]	and i could let the CPU sleep for a millisecond instead of busy waiting for every mmc command that's issued, if there is no other work to be done
22:38:21	[7]	so yeah, the yielding approach works reasonably well, but I don't think it's the best possible solution
22:39:01	[7]	however what really disturbs me is that rockbox is stopping the disk briefly after every track it buffers
22:39:36	kugel	[7]: relying on sleep() is still a bad idea
22:39:37	kugel	you never know when it comes back
22:39:57	jhMikeS	[7]: what do you mean "stopping"?
22:40:04	[7]	kugel: yield isn't better from that point of view
22:40:07	[7]	jhMikeS: spindown
22:40:26	jhMikeS	after every track? ?? sounds strange.
22:40:56	[7]	it immediately spins it up again, making the only noticable reaction a head retract, but I still don't like that at all
22:40:58	Llorean	rasher: So, forum post counts. Probably not something that's needed.
22:41:06	Torne	there have been buffering bugs like that before
22:41:26	Torne	when we were fiddling eith ATA DMA on PP ther ewere a bunch of odd cases in buffering where it would spin down early or forget to spin down for ages
22:41:31	Llorean	It might be nice to replace it with some sort of badge users get after some arbitrary number of posts just to indicate non-new posters.
22:41:32	Torne	some of them got fixed
22:41:43	Llorean	Something between "random person asking for help" and "Expert"
22:41:43	*	[7] does a quick check which function is triggering that spindown
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22:42:07	rasher	Llorean: I agree. As long as the badges are handed out liberally it'd be a decent idea to not display the postcount on posts
22:42:08		Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (~naked@naked.iki.fi)
22:42:28	Llorean	rasher: If you made the badge just appear after say, 25 or 50 posts or so, you wouldn't even have to hand it out.
22:42:33	*	jhMikeS isn't really sure how it can know when it's really ok to do that
22:42:37	Llorean	The software supports "post count based user groups"
22:42:58	rasher	Llorean: Yeah, I wrote that before reading your suggestion of a new badge. Probably not a terrible idea
22:43:10	Llorean	No extra privileges for the group need be assigned, just give 'em a badge that says "Rockbox Veteran" or something
22:43:44	rasher	Wait, there's a forum for this sort of talk
22:43:44	Torne	can you also make it discriminate against newly registered people or is the software too smart for that?
22:43:46	Llorean	I'd prefer if there was a way to measure recent activity though
22:43:48		Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
22:44:02	kugel	[7]: that's right. rockbox isn't really realtime capable if you involve the scheduler btw :)
22:44:02	kugel	And I argue that's the case with most OSes
22:44:05	Llorean	Torne: Only by post count, last time I checked. I don't know if the newer version we now have is better.
22:44:11	Torne	i would say X posts AND registered for Y time, where Y is long enough that making X posts is not tricky
22:50:20	Torne	because straight postcount qualifiers sometimes encourage.. excessive verbosity :)
22:50:20	Torne	but if you have to wait a couple weeks anyway and it's not that many posts, there's less reason to do that
22:50:20	Torne	even if it grants nothing some people will still feel they should have one
22:50:20	DBUG	Enqueued KICK Torne
22:50:20	Torne	it's not a big deal though, just a thought
22:50:21	Llorean	Torne: I'd actually prefer "X posts in the last Y days" rather than registration time. People who are 'active members' of the forum community. But again, that encourages posting when it's not really necessary.
22:50:21	Llorean	It'd be nice if there was a way to identify people likely to be up to date on the current Rockbox, rather than someone who posted 25 times back when the H100 was new (satisfying both age and count) but has no clue about as-an-app trying to talk about something, or whatever.
22:50:21	jhMikeS	CIA is offline? (just did a commit)
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22:50:21	[7]	Llorean: maybe something like "at least 10 posts during the last months, and at least registered for 60 days"?
22:50:21	rasher	Llorean: Actually, wouldn't this just encourage the behavior which hiding post counts is meant to eliminate in the first place
22:50:21	Llorean	But either way, a badge at 25 or 50 posts or whatever is deemed appropriate is probably a fair replacement for the basic postcount display since they both function the same.
22:50:21	[7]	jhMikeS: CIA sometimes lags behind like half an hour
22:50:21	pixelma	[7]: do you have the database enabled (together with some of itd functions, gather runtime data and the like)?
22:50:21	rasher	Maybe even after 10 posts
22:50:21	[7]	pixelma: I think it's enabled but not initialized
22:50:21	rasher	Which means basically everyone who posts more than a single thread gets one
22:50:21	pixelma	that's what I remember being the cause of some of the earlier spinup at trackhc
22:50:21	jhMikeS	[7]: First time I've not seen it show up right away. :\
22:50:21	DBUG	Enqueued KICK Llorean
22:50:21	Llorean	rasher: I wish there was a way to do something like, "5 posts in response to different threads that were not thread starter posts"
22:50:21	pixelma	err.. trackchange bugs
22:50:21	DBUG	Enqueued KICK rasher
22:50:21	rasher	Llorean: "5 actually helpful posts"
22:50:21	Llorean	rasher: Our forum has a karma system. I wonder if it's possibly to just say "5 posts that people gave positive karma to" and drop the idea of post count entirely
22:50:21	***	Alert Mode level 1
22:50:21	Llorean	I see we were thinking in similar directions...
22:50:21	Torne	Well the alternative is, yeah, score posts or whatever
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 2
22:50:22	Torne	do we actually have karma on?
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 3
22:50:22	Llorean	It's turned off
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 4
22:50:22	Torne	right
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 5
22:50:22	Llorean	But it exists in the software IIRC.
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 6
22:50:22	Torne	i assume it can be made to do postiive-only?
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 7
22:50:22	Llorean	I think it could
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 8
22:50:22	Torne	i've seen a large number of comparisons that pretty much show that +1 is sufficeint
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 9
22:50:22	Llorean	I don't have access to the control panel since quite some time, so I can't answer definitively
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 10
22:50:22	Torne	and it's what the web seems to have settled on as a whole
22:50:22	***	Alert Mode level 11
22:50:22	Llorean	If not I think there was a mod to force positive only
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22:50:26	Torne	-1 is just an invitation for a small subset of people to be jerks without really conveying any extra information
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22:50:27	Torne	someone who would get -1'ed a lot is better served by being warned/banned :)
22:50:29		Quit Horschti (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:50:29	Llorean	Indeed
22:50:29	Llorean	I think we already have the tools to handle non-contributing posts.
22:50:30	Torne	yeah.
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22:50:34	Llorean	Especially since they benefit most from understanding why it wasn't helpful/wanted, and a -1 doesn't do that in the case of a lot of places.
22:50:59	Torne	again, though, i guess we'd want to not display it
22:51:31	Torne	just have a badge for karma over x
22:52:08	kugel	n1s: I mean physically spun down
22:53:07	n1s	jhMikeS: i got "<CIA-70> r29381 build result: All green" on my side of the split :)
22:53:59	n1s	kugel: i just meant to point out a situation where it would issue an instant spindown which could perhaps be connected to this bug
22:54:00		Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng037.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu)
22:54:53	pixelma	you may want to repeat parts of your discussion for the rest on this side of the netsplit
22:55:03	pixelma	(kugel and n1s)
22:55:43	Llorean	Torne: There are also mods like http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1129 that can give it more flexibility.
22:56:06	Llorean	For example, Karma increasing automatically as accounts age, or giving the users the option of stating why they gave positive karma, etc.
22:56:54	kugel	jhMikeS: do you know about when on bootup it's safe to put events onto the button_queue?
22:57:17	kugel	I want to start RaaA via multimedia buttons. I manage the start part, but not the start playback part
22:57:28	jhMikeS	kugel: after button_init
22:57:57	n1s	pixelma: i just wanted to point ou that there's a special case for buffering which spins down the disk immediately when it's done instead of waiting a while for possible subsequent accesses like other reads do and that this could be connected to the issue [7] saw
22:58:05	amiconn	kugel: Maybe you ran into the bug which annoys me for quite some time now?
22:58:24	kugel	what bug?
22:59:18	amiconn	It used to be possible to pre-register button presses, i.e. pressing Play during boot while the rockbox logo is still displayed in order to make rockbox resume if you don't have resume on startup enabled
22:59:29	kugel	that isn't possible anymore?
22:59:45	jhMikeS	kugel: on the sim, at least on my setup, key repeats cause threads not to run
22:59:51	amiconn	At some point this stopped working. I already looked once, but there is no obvious button_clear_queue() or similar
23:00
23:00:23	***	Alert Mode OFF
23:02:04	jhMikeS	kugel: it's been that way for awhile but I didn't know at least that part of the equation
23:02:05	[7]	Torne, n1s: something's calling ata_sleep() explicitly
23:02:05	Ctcp	Ignored 3 channel CTCP requests in 1 second at the last flood
23:02:05	*	amiconn finds this quite annoying
23:02:05	amiconn	Nowadays I always have to wait until rockbox is fully booted before resuming will work
23:03:06	jhMikeS	must be clearing out the keypresses
23:03:44	kugel	jhMikeS: what do you mean?
23:05:30	jhMikeS	kugel: If I hold a key down to navigate (say, to go through a menu), all the threads simply stop running. When I let up, they run again. If audio is playing, the PCM empties out, release and audio starts back up.
23:09:21		Quit user890104 ()
23:09:25	AlexP	Llorean: I just replied to rasher on the forum, but as he mentions you I'll copy it here so you can see my response :)
23:09:36		Join user890104 [0] (~Venci@6bez10.info)
23:09:39	AlexP	Llorean: Yeah, there isn't really any need for them. I'm not sure a full on badge is necessary, as it makes it harder to see at a glance those who are officially designated (dev, expert, etc.), but perhaps just change the line that currently says "Posts: xxx" to say something like "New member" then "Veteran" or whatever. Maybe some kind of time based system might be nice - i.e. has xx posts and has been a member for yy time. I don't know if this is
23:09:39	AlexP	possible with the forum software.
23:10:24	bertrik	What was the problem again? :)
23:10:44	AlexP	Just not displaying post counts
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23:13:35	Llorean	bertrik: The idea is that displaying post counts is something we can (and possibly should) do away wiht
23:13:47	Llorean	But it might be nice to have an at-a-glance way to differentiate relatively new members to those who've been posting for a bit
23:13:58	kugel	amiconn: it still works on my targets (one is on r29k)
23:13:59	kugel	jhMikeS: is that new or old?
23:13:59	kugel	I assume the sdl input thread doesn't let the main thread(s) run enough
23:13:59	DBUG	Enqueued KICK kugel
23:13:59	kugel	the sdl event system doesn't have some kind of edge detection. they just keep fireing if buttons are keeping pressed. IIRC
23:14:34	Llorean	AlexP: "veteran" badges don't have to follow the official badge trend (I've been thinking there should be two classes of badges for a awhile, one relating to things that have been committed, and one for everything else, that are visually distinct)
23:14:44	jhMikeS	kugel: it happened when changing to the target structure. before that it was ok.
23:15:23	amiconn	kugel: Odd. It definitely doesn't work on H1x0
23:16:06	kugel	I can press play as soon as "Boot Ver. 2.0" goes away and it'll start playback on my fuzev2
23:16:07	jhMikeS	kugel: if the input thread is running that much, something isn't right. my key repeats aren't that quick :)
23:16:27	[7]	jhMikeS, Torne, n1s: it's hitting buffering.c line 833 after each track
23:16:28	AlexP	Llorean: I tried to bring this up before, for differentiating artist
23:16:37	Llorean	AlexP: I think it's been brought up a few times.
23:16:39	AlexP	Llorean: I even held a contest
23:16:44	pixelma	I have an odd sdl problem with button events - on my Windows 7 box some keypresses are not detected as snappy as on my XP box - e.g. in a c200 sim, the volume only changes 1 step (which is usually 1 button press) after pressing 7 or 9 a couple of times (varies a bit between 10 and 15 or so)
23:16:48	kugel	jhMikeS: I thought you hold the key down?
23:16:57	AlexP	Llorean: But I can't change them, and it sort of fizzled out
23:17:00	Llorean	AlexP: Basically, a "staff" badge template, and an "award" badge template
23:17:05	AlexP	yeah, exactly
23:17:13	pixelma	it doesn't affect all button presses even, seems very weird
23:17:24	Llorean	Then we could give 'veterans' a badge based on the award template and not need to worry about much confusion
23:17:27	jhMikeS	kugel: I do.
23:17:34	AlexP	Llorean: Yes, that'd be fine
23:18:00	kugel	jhMikeS: how can you tell your repeats aren't quick enough?
23:18:09	AlexP	I'd at the very least like to do that, to seperate artist out
23:18:15	AlexP	We can then add other things like this
23:18:24	Llorean	AlexP: Yeah, that's how I see it to. It's an important first step.
23:18:41	Ctcp	Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:18:41	*	Llorean maybe should see about getting involved again, at least for the purposes of helping to implement something like this.
23:18:57	AlexP	Well, I can hold another contest, but I need scorche to actually change anything
23:18:57	kugel	jhMikeS: nothing really changed in that movement to the target tree. but there were separate commits which changed the main SDL thread to also be the main rockbox thread. perhaps that's related?
23:19:16	Llorean	AlexP: You could ask Scorche to give you membergroup powers, an an FTP account for uploading badge images.
23:19:16	jhMikeS	kugel: never actually measured but ~20HZ ought not to bother it
23:19:36	AlexP	Llorean: membergroup?
23:19:53	AlexP	As in change people's membergroup (I can do that now), or to create them?
23:20:03	AlexP	Create them I guess
23:20:03	Llorean	AlexP: I think there's a permission for creating them.
23:20:12	AlexP	Yes, this would be handy
23:20:24	Llorean	With the permission to create them, and the ability to upload badges, you'd effectively be set.
23:20:30	AlexP	Yes, that is all I need
23:20:43	jhMikeS	kugel: Not seeing how, since you have the event thread instead.
23:22:26	kugel	"not seeing how"?
23:22:27	AlexP	Llorean: I was thinking of other ones, like contributor for people who have got stuff into svn for instance (or are in credits)
23:22:27	AlexP	Doesn't give them anything but says thanks
23:23:22	jhMikeS	kugel: how that itself would cause the issue
23:24:29	Llorean	AlexP: Yeah, I'm in favor of that one too, I think I've also suggested it or agreed with it in the past.
23:25:46		Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
23:26:01	AlexP	Llorean: Well, I'll have a word with scorche (I'm assuming he'll see this :)) and then maybe have a little contest to come up with the templates (or at least the new one).
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23:26:29	AlexP	I imagine some people might want to keep the current template for staff
23:27:06	*	[7] wonders if he should go to bed or try to nail down that spindown bug
23:27:35	Llorean	AlexP: I'm quite happy with the current template, yeah.
23:27:54	AlexP	Me too
23:27:57	kugel	jhMikeS: just an idea. I don't know and haven
23:27:57	kugel	't observied the problem thus far
23:28:21	jhMikeS	[7]: I'm sure it could reach the end of the linked list many times while things are delay adding handles
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23:35:29	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:35:52		Quit Llorean (Quit: Leaving.)
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23:40:54	[7]	eek! the database code does misaligned storage accesses?
23:42:02		Quit Llorean (Quit: Leaving.)
23:42:10	bertrik	[7], it's not supposed to, I think
23:42:28	[7]	well, it apparently does
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23:42:36	[7]	and the buffer isn't even on a stack from what i can tell
23:42:38	jhMikeS	[7]: maybe the sleep should be when data remaining == 0 or the buffer fills
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23:43:35	[7]	jhMikeS: i've just checked, buffer_handle always returns true, except for the last one of course
23:43:45	[7]	so it's just running past the end of the list
23:45:01	[7]	how can i figure out which file is making the DB cock up?
23:45:26	[7]	it just seems to cancel initializing at committing[4/9]
23:46:02	jhMikeS	buffer_handle should only return false if it has to explicitly stop (space hadn't been cleared yet on a rebuffer)
23:48:32	stripwax	[7] - very interesting, that's the same symptom I saw (except in my case it was accompanied by a hard lockup).
23:49:16	stripwax	and oddly, for me, I got it to succeed by going to the Debug menu -> Database Status and leaving it there while it built.
23:49:25	[7]	stripwax: if i retry it now, it runs into an unaligned storage access, which can in theory only happen if it's bypassing the fat apis, which is shouldn't, so that sounds like i need to dig something up
23:50:02	stripwax	what I observer might be totally unrelated to what you're seeing of course (maybe coincidental that mine also just seemed to cancel itself at 4/9)
23:50:07	stripwax	^observed
23:51:30		Quit robin0800_ (Quit: Leaving)
23:52:18	jhMikeS	[7]: imo it should be under those two conditions, not the end of list state since that's when buffering is complete
23:53:58		Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
23:54:12	stripwax	Hrm.
23:54:58	stripwax	For fun, I'm playing around with sim, and enabled Auto Update of database. shut down sim, added some more music to simdisk directory, and restarted sim; and it didn't add any new tracks to db
23:55:13	stripwax	Is that a known 'sim' weirdness?
23:55:26	*	[7] just nailed down a bug in his fat driver patch which probably caused at least part of that problem
23:56:13	stripwax	Ignore me. not a sim problem, a problem between keyboard and chair.
23:56:47	stripwax	although rockbox debug menu database info did say progress was 595% complete, which threw me initially

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