| 00:00:02 | amiconn | thomasjfox: I noticed rb-maemo doesn't support rtc info? |
| 00:00:17 | * | TheSeven wonders where the ramsize hit is coming from |
| 00:00:22 | thomasjfox | amiconn: RaaA doesn't support it yet |
| 00:00:24 | kugel | thomasjfox: I wondered if it would be useful to re-use android's fs-android.c (it's just plain unix) on maemo instead of this messy io.c |
| 00:00:30 | gevaerts | TheSeven: alignment? |
| 00:00:38 | kugel | you still link libuisimulator, right? |
| 00:01:07 | TheSeven | gevaerts: well, I've added a sector buffer, but decreased the USB stack size by the same amount |
| 00:01:19 | thomasjfox | kugel: regarding libuisimulator, I guess so |
| 00:01:30 | TheSeven | and also where does that 200k ramsize hit for ipod classic come from? |
| 00:01:30 | S_a_i_n_t | AlexP_: Zagor: Since fonts are being mentioned again...the fontpack at http://download.rockbox.org/daily/fonts/ is over 2 years old and claims to be built daily. |
| 00:01:32 | linuxstb | kugel: Another question - what is the signifcance of the "app" subdirectory in the hosted target tree? (and why is there the #ifdef APPLICATION inside #if (CONFIG_PLATFORM & PLATFORM_ANDROID) in firmware/SOURCES)? |
| 00:02:22 | Zagor | S_a_i_n_t: nice. it's the release 3.4 pack... |
| 00:02:31 | S_a_i_n_t | Yeah. |
| 00:02:36 | gevaerts | TheSeven: you've added CACHEALIGN_ATTR to some stuff. That may cost RAM |
| 00:02:38 | S_a_i_n_t | I think RButil grabs the same? |
| 00:02:48 | Zagor | not for release, does it? |
| 00:03:02 | S_a_i_n_t | I have mentioned it before, but I wasn't sure exactly *who* to mention it to. |
| 00:03:11 | TheSeven | gevaerts: but not that much |
| 00:03:33 | AlexP_ | Zagor: it always grabs the same one |
| 00:03:44 | Zagor | ok |
| 00:03:54 | Zagor | updated now |
| 00:03:58 | AlexP_ | Zagor: As install fonts is under extra, and not linked to either current, daily, or release |
| 00:04:09 | S_a_i_n_t | So if someone installs a current build they built themselves, then instals a release they're actually downgrading fonts by ~2 years...heh. |
| 00:04:10 | Zagor | aha |
| 00:04:11 | | Quit CapsAdmin (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 00:04:24 | gevaerts | TheSeven: I'll have a look |
| 00:07:17 | kugel | thomasjfox: you should be able to to do away with libuisimulator |
| 00:07:28 | thomasjfox | kugel: nice |
| 00:08:31 | thomasjfox | AlexP_: Congratulations on the release |
| 00:08:52 | AlexP_ | ta, but I just bully people :) |
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| 00:10:14 | kugel | linuxstb: don't know for sure |
| 00:10:28 | thomasjfox | kugel: I added a note to my never ending todo list about it |
| 00:11:39 | kugel | AlexP_: \o/ |
| 00:11:47 | kugel | but, is that a html mail? |
| 00:11:48 | AlexP_ | :) |
| 00:11:59 | AlexP_ | kugel: No idea, I sent it from gmail |
| 00:12:20 | gevaerts | TheSeven: 23444: http://pastebin.com/N55uUtCu , 23445: http://pastebin.com/L1vvHhRi |
| 00:12:25 | gevaerts | Both ipod video |
| 00:12:47 | TheSeven | what is that? binsize or ramsize? |
| 00:13:16 | n1s | gevaerts: right, i didn't check which threads those things were called from but i suppose the buffering thread wouls do most reading normally |
| 00:13:38 | gevaerts | utils/analysis/bloat-o-meter.py output |
| 00:14:07 | gevaerts | So both |
| 00:14:10 | | Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 00:16:35 | | Part Zagor |
| 00:16:43 | gevaerts | TheSeven: it looks like the extra release() in all return paths adds up, and alignment costs you over 200 bytes ram |
| 00:18:32 | n1s | that looks like it could be done with a return value var and some gotos but i dunno if it would be worth it for the possible saving |
| 00:18:35 | TheSeven | binsize accounts for 320, ramsize for another 336 bytes |
| 00:18:49 | TheSeven | so could it really by ~300 bytes for alignment? |
| 00:18:55 | n1s | sure |
| 00:19:05 | TheSeven | n1s: ~100 bytes i'd guess |
| 00:20:04 | n1s | when the gigabeast had it's usb buffer alignment doen this way, ramsize would jump up and down like crazy |
| 00:20:21 | n1s | gcc doesn't seem to try to make it efficient |
| 00:21:06 | kugel | TheSeven: couldn't fat_get_sector_buffer/_release be done transparently for the callers? |
| 00:21:56 | TheSeven | how? |
| 00:22:12 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29449): Fix yellow |
| 00:22:45 | TheSeven | wow, that svn ci took 15 minutes and 40 seconds |
| 00:22:46 | kugel | aquiring the mutex in the function that need protection without these extra functions perhaps? |
| 00:23:23 | kugel | ah no, you need to pass that pointer |
| 00:23:27 | TheSeven | is that any better? |
| 00:24:16 | TheSeven | you would need to call mutex_unlock instead |
| 00:24:49 | kugel | ignore what I said :) |
| 00:26:37 | n1s | sometimes my svn ci never returns even if the commit gets through fine |
| 00:27:19 | CIA-70 | r29449 build result: All green |
| 00:27:24 | JdGordon | I've had that also |
| 00:27:28 | JdGordon | not for ages though |
| 00:30:06 | TheSeven | gevaerts: how does that bloat-o-meter work? |
| 00:30:38 | TheSeven | i'm very curious where that 200k hit for ipodclassic is coming from |
| 00:30:43 | gevaerts | TheSeven: you give it two elf files. I have no idea what it does with them exactly |
| 00:30:50 | n1s | TheSeven: there's a HAVE_ATA_BBT / ATA_HAVE_BBT mismatch but it's commented out so shouldn't matter for function |
| 00:30:50 | TheSeven | ok |
| 00:31:20 | n1s | bloat-o-meter compares sizes of functions and prints the delatas i think |
| 00:31:26 | TheSeven | yeah, that would match the 200k almost perfectly, but I don't get why it's used |
| 00:31:42 | amiconn | Binsize increase is 564..596 bytes on SH1, and that's basically also the ramsize increase |
| 00:32:11 | amiconn | On coldfire it's a little less, but also both sizes nearly matching. Only arm has a bit more difference between ramsize and binsize |
| 00:33:09 | TheSeven | amiconn: what's CACHEALIGN_SIZE on sh/cf? |
| 00:33:39 | amiconn | SH1 has no cache, and coldfire has icache only |
| 00:33:48 | amiconn | So probably undefined/ smallest possible |
| 00:33:55 | TheSeven | so that explains where ~200 bytes of ramsize are coming from |
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| 00:40:21 | | Part lixxus |
| 00:40:37 | | Quit stripwax (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:40:58 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29450): Fix misspelled define that was commented out anyway |
| 00:41:51 | | Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 00:42:43 | CIA-70 | New commit by thomasjfox (r29451): RaaA: Add initial Pandora support ... |
| 00:43:33 | * | linuxstb wonders about manuals for RaaA targets... |
| 00:45:34 | S_a_i_n_t | linuxstb: A very general one should be possible. |
| 00:45:42 | S_a_i_n_t | But, the targets vary so wildly. |
| 00:45:45 | JdGordon | one for each port seems silly... we should have a single generic RaaA manual with bassically every option in it |
| 00:45:58 | CIA-70 | r29450 build result: All green |
| 00:46:08 | thomasjfox | we could still split it up if it explodes... |
| 00:46:14 | AlexP_ | One per target OS I'd day |
| 00:46:23 | AlexP_ | e..g android, maemo etc. |
| 00:46:32 | AlexP_ | For install instructions and that |
| 00:46:35 | S_a_i_n_t | does it vary that wildly between the OSes? |
| 00:46:48 | S_a_i_n_t | I thought the targets were the main worry. |
| 00:46:54 | AlexP_ | S_a_i_n_t: That is one of the criteria for separate manuals now |
| 00:47:03 | S_a_i_n_t | Ah. |
| 00:47:43 | * | JdGordon repeats what he's been quietly saying for years... we have too many and a very badly layed out manual |
| 00:47:54 | AlexP_ | very badly? |
| 00:48:04 | AlexP_ | You are welcome to suggest how to fix |
| 00:48:08 | JdGordon | just about everything except installation is 100% generic |
| 00:48:32 | * | thomasjfox really thinks RaaA shouldn't index /proc, /sys, /usr/include, /usr/lib and /usr/share in tagcache.c. Takes aaages during update |
| 00:48:38 | AlexP_ | does it matter? |
| 00:48:47 | TheSeven | arrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 00:48:54 | AlexP_ | also, lots of things like keys are different |
| 00:48:54 | TheSeven | guess where that 200k hit is coming from! |
| 00:49:00 | AlexP_ | and those are quite important |
| 00:49:16 | S_a_i_n_t | thomasjfox: a "Start DB here" option would be nice. |
| 00:49:18 | JdGordon | AlexP_: well not really, but the first impression is a 100+ page manual with no really simple "first steps/quickstart guide" |
| 00:49:31 | TheSeven | function old new delta |
| 00:49:32 | TheSeven | fat_cache_sectors 16384 131072 +114688 |
| 00:49:32 | TheSeven | opendirs 16896 59904 +43008 |
| 00:49:32 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TheSeven |
| 00:49:32 | TheSeven | openfiles 6336 45760 +39424 |
| 00:49:32 | TheSeven | sab_fat_dir 1088 4672 +3584 |
| 00:49:32 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 00:49:32 | TheSeven | fat_tempbuf 512 4096 +3584 |
| 00:49:33 | AlexP_ | So write one |
| 00:49:38 | AlexP_ | There is a quick start |
| 00:49:44 | JdGordon | the installation manual should be seperate from the general usage manual |
| 00:49:49 | AlexP_ | But people are always welcome to write one |
| 00:49:53 | AlexP_ | Why? |
| 00:49:54 | TheSeven | so the sector size change is the culprit :/ |
| 00:49:59 | AlexP_ | What would that solve? |
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| 00:50:17 | thomasjfox | S_a_i_n_t: Maybe it could share the "start directory" var of the "files" browser? |
| 00:50:27 | TheSeven | 128k of fat cache... sounds like a *bit* too much... |
| 00:50:51 | JdGordon | thomasjfox: I agree... those files dirs should be implicitly ignored on unix/linux-y systems |
| 00:50:54 | S_a_i_n_t | thomasjfox: that seems quite sane, yes. |
| 00:51:14 | JdGordon | /usr/share maybe not thouhg |
| 00:51:21 | CIA-70 | r29451 build result: All green |
| 00:51:30 | | Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:53:19 | thomasjfox | At least we could define some kind of implicit blacklist for stuff like /proc or /sys |
| 00:53:19 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 00:53:19 | * | kugel spots a bug |
| 00:53:19 | JdGordon | . /sbin /bin |
| 00:53:19 | JdGordon | (not .) |
| 00:53:19 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 00:53:44 | thomasjfox | kugel: 3.8 or trunk? ;) |
| 00:54:51 | kugel | both |
| 00:57:26 | kugel | if you have a file in the playlist for which metadata parsing fails, and you try to play it, then PLAYBACK_EVENT_TRACK_CHANGE is sent with faulty mp3entry |
| 00:58:43 | CIA-70 | New commit by thomasjfox (r29452): Fix typo in comment |
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| 00:59:33 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:51 | iHPRobin | Hey all, typical noob here, gonna rockbox my iHP-120, do i need to make sure the firmware on my player is the same as the one i use for the bootloader? |
| 01:02:52 | | Join milk [0] (~milk@94-193-93-226.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:03:11 | gevaerts | iHPRobin: the firmware you use for the bootloader ends up being installed too, so it doesn't really matter if they're the same before |
| 01:03:12 | CIA-70 | r29452 build result: All green |
| 01:03:43 | gevaerts | Except of course if you really want the exact same version after installing rockbox |
| 01:03:48 | CIA-70 | New commit by thomasjfox (r29453): Pandora port: Exit rockbox by pressing the SELECT button ... |
| 01:04:12 | iHPRobin | cool cheers gevaerts |
| 01:05:43 | thomasjfox | kugel: Regarding the shutdown hang in every sim build/SDL app, what about this workaround in http://pastie.org/1614928 until we fix it properly? |
| 01:06:19 | | Quit ender` (Quit: cat /dev/coffee | /dev/cup | /dev/mouth | /dev/nose > /dev/keyboard) |
| 01:06:35 | thomasjfox | kugel: Leaked resources are not really a problem if the app is shutting down anyway. Just not 100% clean though much better than hanging |
| 01:06:57 | kugel | yes probably |
| 01:08:23 | CIA-70 | r29453 build result: All green |
| 01:10:24 | | Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:12:36 | thomasjfox | kugel: I take that as your blessing, I'll commit the workaround. I will also add a prominent note that we need to fix this properly. |
| 01:13:11 | kugel | well, I'm not a fan of committing work arounds |
| 01:13:17 | kugel | but I can't look at it now |
| 01:13:55 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:14:04 | JdGordon | thomasjfox: do we know what the actul slowdown is? |
| 01:14:20 | JdGordon | the problem with commiting work arounds is that it will veyr likely never be fixed properly |
| 01:14:40 | thomasjfox | JdGordon: I still keep it on my personal TODO list which means it will get fixed |
| 01:14:57 | JdGordon | I like that thought, but no it doesnt :) |
| 01:15:02 | thomasjfox | JdGordon: It's no slowdown, it's probably access to already freed (mutex) resources and causing a hang |
| 01:15:23 | thomasjfox | JdGordon: A proper fix will take some time to find the right spot |
| 01:15:48 | thomasjfox | I'll show off the commit message before commiting it. Ok? |
| 01:19:10 | | Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.) |
| 01:22:43 | thomasjfox | JdGordon, kugel: Proposed workaround commit: http://pastie.org/1614970 |
| 01:24:57 | JdGordon | thomasjfox: yeah, but still, doing that makes it less likely a real fix will happen |
| 01:25:05 | thomasjfox | Hmm |
| 01:27:23 | kugel | the app targets aren't considered stable so there's no real hurry enough to commit work arounds |
| 01:27:30 | thomasjfox | Ok, I won't commit it for now. Don't want to get blamed for it ;) |
| 01:27:43 | thomasjfox | kugel: The problematic part is that it also affects the sim build |
| 01:29:00 | thomasjfox | kugel: Maybe disable sigaltstack for the sim build until this is fixed? |
| 01:29:17 | kugel | another work around ;) |
| 01:29:37 | kugel | I'll have a look in a within the next days |
| 01:30:12 | thomasjfox | perfect! |
| 01:35:32 | | Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:39:14 | | Quit S_a_i_n_t (Quit: I'm only going to Heaven if it feels like Hell, I'm only going to Heaven if it tastes like caramel...) |
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| 01:59:47 | CIA-70 | New commit by kugel (r29454): Android: Fix crash when playback is passing invalid metadata around. |
| 02:00 |
| 02:04:00 | CIA-70 | r29454 build result: All green |
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| 03:00 |
| 03:10:33 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Your post regarding the Android .wps failure...care to explain *why* that is? |
| 03:10:38 | [Saint] | it should work iiuc. |
| 03:11:09 | JdGordon | skins must be loaded in the .rockbox/wps/ dir |
| 03:11:33 | [Saint] | Is that a new thing? I thought a skin file could be loaded from anywhere. |
| 03:11:52 | [Saint] | (as long as it doesn't have any images to load) |
| 03:12:44 | JdGordon | I broke it probably 6+ months ago... its something that has been on the todo list but really not a priority |
| 03:13:13 | [Saint] | Ah, right. I knew it used to work, so I couldn't understand the fail case here. |
| 03:18:13 | Topic | "Rockbox 3.8 is released | Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at http://www.rockbox.org/irc | An upgrade caused issues with the wiki. We are on the case" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 03:24:00 | | Join mystica555_ [0] (~mike@71-208-223-184.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 03:35:43 | [Saint] | Gah...the 64x64 iconset that imagemagick created (with bluebrother's guidance of course) only needs a tiny bit of tweaking considering, but the tweaking it does need is all pixel-by-pixel colour matching annoying as hell stuff. |
| 03:36:19 | JdGordon | and rememeber the rockbox code wont load more than 24x24 unless that's been changed recently |
| 03:36:20 | [Saint] | Still, ages taken off my ToDO though, and the 64x64 iconset looks *nice*. |
| 03:37:27 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Yes, I remember that. There probably needs to be defines for iconsizes as I assume that making a maximum possability of 64x64 for all targets will waste a foolish amount of space. |
| 03:37:51 | JdGordon | a few lines of code |
| 03:38:24 | [Saint] | the 64px iconset would flood the skin buffer of most targets anyway ;) |
| 03:38:35 | [Saint] | it's ~400Kb |
| 03:39:13 | JdGordon | 262KB unless i messed up the calc |
| 03:39:22 | JdGordon | 64*64*32*16/8=262144 |
| 03:39:40 | [Saint] | 384 is the size I have here. |
| 03:40:07 | [Saint] | Ah...that might well be *24 though |
| 03:40:27 | [Saint] | I forgot the RB converts to 16 |
| 03:40:32 | [Saint] | *that |
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| 04:00 |
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| 04:18:17 | [Saint] | AlexP_: It might not *sound* like a serious question, but I assure you it is ;) |
| 04:18:28 | [Saint] | What are your ideas for "more buttony"? |
| 04:20:10 | [Saint] | Anyone else is quite welcome to comment on this also, there's apparently an issue of the cabbie touchscreen icons for playback not obviously appearing as buttons. And I would like to try to remedy this. |
| 04:23:50 | JdGordon | [Saint]: any sort of background, preferably one which colours when pressed (I may need to add some support for that though) |
| 04:24:24 | [Saint] | JdGordon: I've been meaning to talk to you about %Tl |
| 04:24:41 | JdGordon | ? |
| 04:24:54 | CIA-70 | New commit by kugel (r29455): Hopefully get shutdown/exit handling on SDL/maemo right. ... |
| 04:24:59 | [Saint] | there needs to be a way to have multiple seperate instances of this tag, at the moment all %Tl areas fire at the same time. |
| 04:25:11 | JdGordon | what is %Tl? |
| 04:25:34 | [Saint] | "touch last" or something like that I believe the tag represents. |
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| 04:26:02 | [Saint] | it fires true if the screen is touched, and has an optional timeout before it goes false. |
| 04:26:02 | JdGordon | ok, and how do you want it to work? |
| 04:26:23 | | Quit timccc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 04:26:29 | [Saint] | well preferably only the %Tl area that is touched should fire. |
| 04:26:53 | JdGordon | %Tl isnt linked to a region, it is linked to the whole screen |
| 04:27:03 | JdGordon | so thats what you want changed? |
| 04:27:08 | [Saint] | this could allow for multiple cool effects like drop down windows, etc. |
| 04:27:10 | JdGordon | im not sure how that would work |
| 04:27:47 | [Saint] | Hmmm, I think a lot of people expect it to work differently. |
| 04:27:53 | [Saint] | (myself included) |
| 04:28:22 | [Saint] | The way I described it, would be ideal...though I understand if it's not possible, or ridiculously hard. |
| 04:28:55 | JdGordon | do you want it linked to a spcific touch region? or viewport? or? |
| 04:29:44 | [Saint] | touch region would be nice, it need not be linked to a specific VP. |
| 04:29:56 | CIA-70 | r29455 build result: All green |
| 04:30:07 | JdGordon | the other way around is simpler, linking to a touch region should be doable though |
| 04:30:07 | | Join timccc [0] (~timccc@112.166.15.141) |
| 04:30:22 | JdGordon | except they arent labeled at all so how owuld you specify which? |
| 04:31:01 | [Saint] | Ah, there's a point. |
| 04:31:15 | JdGordon | an optional label might be addable |
| 04:31:22 | JdGordon | whats the %T() param list? |
| 04:31:33 | [Saint] | They'd need to be able to accept an identifier, and that makes it trickier. :/ |
| 04:32:02 | [Saint] | sorry? the %T() param list? |
| 04:32:14 | JdGordon | the first param is the x, so we could stick an optional label in there easily |
| 04:32:55 | JdGordon | which you could then use to change the background image for a button when it is being pressed! |
| 04:33:08 | [Saint] | oh...right, sorry. x, y, width, height, touch action |
| 04:33:27 | JdGordon | I'm not sure how you tihnk that would make drops downs work though? |
| 04:33:45 | [Saint] | JdGordon: yes, I thought of it when you mentioned changing the background/colour on selection. |
| 04:33:49 | JdGordon | unless you make a ton of conditional viewports? wouldnt you also need a variable system? |
| 04:33:52 | [Saint] | I knew I'd need this to make that possible ;) |
| 04:35:26 | JdGordon | haha, you could *almost* reimplement a full menu/setting system in the skin with conditional viewports and some clever skin logic |
| 04:35:30 | JdGordon | and variables |
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| 04:35:50 | [Saint] | Yes, I'd thought of that too ;) |
| 04:36:20 | JdGordon | could it be done without variables? |
| 04:36:50 | [Saint] | depends exactly what you were wanting to do. |
| 04:37:04 | JdGordon | I'm thinking not reliably... you'd have to use very long timeouts to make sure the popup doesnt disappear |
| 04:37:16 | [Saint] | you could make a drop-down settings menu with it pretty easily iiuc. |
| 04:38:56 | [Saint] | using this theoretical new tag, some conditions, and %St with setting_inc and setting_dec |
| 04:40:27 | JdGordon | if that was actually wnated I could add a helper for settings to get the lang string |
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| 04:40:44 | | Join Loto [0] (~nfs@xbmc/user/Loto) |
| 04:40:52 | JdGordon | 4 things at a time though only... |
| 04:41:03 | JdGordon | remind me tonight about %Tl... i tinhk it will be relativly simple to do |
| 04:42:07 | JdGordon | I'm really not sure how useful it would be in practice though |
| 04:42:44 | JdGordon | actually, screw that... i hate the current touch cabbie because it pops up the menu when it doesnt need to |
| 04:44:15 | [Saint] | recently pixelma mentioned it also, and the guy that's working on the meamo and open pandora ports who's nick escapes me also expected it to work slightly differently I believe. |
| 04:44:41 | [Saint] | individual touch areas that can fire true/false on touch open up a lot of doors for touch skins. |
| 04:45:04 | JdGordon | %Tl([label,][timeout]) or [timeout,][label] ? |
| 04:45:57 | | Join Barahir [0] (~jonathan@frnk-590f5890.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 04:46:12 | JdGordon | hmm, we dont really have an option to do "string or nothing" |
| 04:46:34 | JdGordon | label after the timeout seems wrong thoguh |
| 04:46:58 | JdGordon | |[SD]D could work though |
| 04:48:50 | JdGordon | ok, no this wont work |
| 04:49:23 | [Saint] | how will/can the true/false conditions be handled? this almost needs two tags? as %Tl(label,params)<|> is pretty different from anything we have currently. |
| 04:49:23 | | Quit Barahir_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 04:49:37 | JdGordon | no it isnt |
| 04:49:41 | JdGordon | %if() works the same way |
| 04:49:45 | [Saint] | for touch areas it is. |
| 04:49:55 | [Saint] | but I see your point. |
| 04:50:06 | [Saint] | it's just different because it's not been done yet ;) |
| 04:50:16 | JdGordon | %?Tl(play, 1)<true> |
| 04:50:37 | * | JdGordon contemplates forcing the label to be more than 1 char to piss certain people off :) |
| 04:51:03 | * | [Saint] glares -_- |
| 04:51:04 | [Saint] | :) |
| 04:52:24 | JdGordon | ok, note to self... fix the parser to allow [S] which would mean "accept a S if its there, or continue if there isnt one" |
| 04:53:25 | | Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 04:55:12 | [Saint] | so: "%?Tl(label,timeout,x,y,w,h)<true|false>" |
| 04:55:13 | JdGordon | no..... |
| 04:55:13 | JdGordon | you're mixing tags |
| 04:55:19 | JdGordon | %T(foo,x,y,w,h,action)\n%?Tl(foo, timeout)<> |
| 04:57:35 | JdGordon | make sense? |
| 04:57:54 | * | [Saint] nods. |
| 04:57:55 | | Quit nick-p (Client Quit) |
| 04:58:23 | | Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 04:58:23 | | Join nick_p [0] (~52456978@giant.haxx.se) |
| 04:59:38 | nick_p | Hi, I'm having problems with "Version:" in rockbox-info.txt |
| 04:59:42 | nick_p | I did "svn switch svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/tags/v3_8" and also tried "svn up -r 29442" |
| 04:59:47 | nick_p | After I compile, "cat clip/rockbox-info.txt | grep Version:" returns "Version: r29442-110228" |
| 04:59:51 | nick_p | I'm pretty sure this was all I did to get a nice "Version: 3.7" with 3.7, have I forgotten something silly? |
| 05:00 |
| 05:01:21 | JdGordon | what are you trying to do? |
| 05:02:00 | nick_p | Just compile a new version with a patch, but I get this even without applying the patches. |
| 05:02:37 | JdGordon | there is a #define which controls the version number in the build and that text file |
| 05:02:50 | JdGordon | is there rbversion.h or something in the build dir? |
| 05:03:11 | JdGordon | version.h |
| 05:04:12 | nick_p | Yes, I see version.h, generated by genversion.sh apparently. |
| 05:04:35 | nick_p | I've no problem with editing it, just thought it happened automagically last time |
| 05:06:37 | JdGordon | it may have.... AlexP_ might have forgotten to twiddle a switch on the release branch |
| 05:07:51 | nick_p | Thanks for that |
| 05:11:56 | | Quit MethoS- (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 05:16:22 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Another small change (which is purely aesthetic this time) is that I think the look of the like selector could be vastly improved by adding a spece before the list entry. |
| 05:16:22 | | Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 05:16:51 | [Saint] | It looks a little crap to me with the menu entry hard against the edge of the line selector. |
| 05:19:11 | [Saint] | you actually did a patch for me some time ago that does this very thing for my iLike theme but I've discovered it makes cabbie look a bit nicer also. |
| 05:19:12 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (~Miranda@p4FFF3CA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:22:09 | [Saint] | Not just the line selector, just menus/lists in general look a lot better. If there's no UI viewport the font is drawn hard against the edge of the screen and it can make it hard to read. Stepping it out with a space looks a lot better. |
| 05:22:22 | JdGordon | that isnt something that is likely to change... you could email the dev ml and show screenshots showing why it looks better |
| 05:22:35 | | Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 05:22:36 | JdGordon | but I'm not going to shitstir by doing that change |
| 05:22:41 | * | [Saint] nods. |
| 05:22:47 | [Saint] | Totally fair. |
| 05:22:53 | | Join antil33t [0] (~antil33t@124-197-51-80.callplus.net.nz) |
| 05:23:03 | JdGordon | thats not to say i dont agree with you thuogh :) |
| 05:23:23 | JdGordon | even with the ui viewport, doesnt it draw pretty much flush against the icons? |
| 05:23:39 | | Quit nick_p (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 05:23:54 | [Saint] | Yes. |
| 05:24:27 | [Saint] | I will though as you say go through the propper channels and supply screenshots of both cases. |
| 05:24:41 | [Saint] | I don't want to rock any boats either ;) |
| 05:30:02 | Llorean | I wouldn't object to all lines in menus being indented by about a half or whole space. |
| 05:32:17 | JdGordon | I can see this turning into the scrolling post-fix-space debate :( |
| 05:32:40 | Llorean | I don't know. |
| 05:33:45 | Llorean | I think the idea of shifting the start of the text a little right (or left on RTL) of the current starting point to help readability isn't going to be the same kind of thing, especially if it's not configurable. |
| 05:36:23 | JdGordon | well, do we want the highlight to start at the text start? or at the left edge? |
| 05:36:35 | Llorean | I'd say the highlight should start where it does now. |
| 05:36:57 | Llorean | You don't accomplish much by moving the text, then moving the highlight with it so it looks the same just in a different position. |
| 05:37:10 | Llorean | Though I guess that does help solve screen-edge issues. |
| 05:37:40 | Llorean | Is there some reason we don't highlight the icon, other than "we never have before?" |
| 05:38:09 | JdGordon | IIRC we did *many years ago* |
| 05:38:19 | JdGordon | before i was around... |
| 05:38:37 | Llorean | Hrm |
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| 05:56:55 | [Saint] | Well, I'll post an email to the dev-ml with screenshots showing both cases, with and without icons. |
| 05:59:07 | [Saint] | I can't see anyone having an issue with it personally, especially if it's not a complex change (it isn't), doesn't hit binsize (it doesn't), needs no messing with lang files (all existing strings will work), and improves the overall readability of the menus and lists. |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:34 | JdGordon | *someone* will *always* find something to complain about |
| 06:01:53 | [Saint] | This is true, which is why I shall arm myself with evidence of my claims for improved readability and the tiny patch for the scrutiny of others. |
| 06:04:44 | | Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 06:10:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 07:33:32 | alexbobp | what can cause rockbox to crash with "micro sd init failed: -3"? |
| 07:34:38 | JdGordon | I'd guess the micro sd card failing to initialiase |
| 07:34:54 | alexbobp | kthx |
| 07:34:59 | alexbobp | I was wondering *why* that was happening |
| 07:35:13 | alexbobp | after that message, rockbox reboots and the sdcard mounts fine... |
| 07:35:26 | alexbobp | it happens whenever I unplug the sdcard and plug it back in |
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| 08:07:39 | | Nick CiPHER is now known as Guest48988 (~7375e3fe@giant.haxx.se) |
| 08:08:19 | Guest48988 | can someone tell me what to do if I reach the data abort error |
| 08:08:38 | Guest48988 | on an iPod gen 5 video? |
| 08:10:12 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 08:10:31 | linuxstb | If you can reproduce it reliably, please post a bug report, giving the full error message displayed. But to reboot your ipod, just hold MENU+SELECT together for a few seconds. |
| 08:10:59 | | Join esperegu [0] (~quassel@145.116.15.244) |
| 08:13:31 | Guest48988 | thanks linuxstb |
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| 08:15:55 | bluebroth3r | AlexP_: easy: check rbutil/rbutilqt/rbutil.ini for the font entries :) |
| 08:16:39 | bluebroth3r | though I see I was wrong yesterday: it does differentiate between release and daily fonts. AFAIK this only has an effect on the automatic installation though. |
| 08:16:40 | | Join webguest49 [0] (c391b46a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.145.180.106) |
| 08:17:34 | webguest49 | Hey cool! Since when can the PDF manual be searched for words containing "ff", "fi" etc? This was impossible before! |
| 08:20:59 | bluebroth3r | should be since switching to T1 fontencoding. Maybe it's also related to yesterdays switch to inputenx, haven't checked |
| 08:22:36 | linuxstb | Do we still have download mirrors? |
| 08:23:31 | bluebroth3r | yep, works with 3.7 manuals so it's not related to the change to inputenx. |
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| 09:39:26 | JdGordon | pixelma: apparently you wernt sure how the %Tl (last touch) works? or how you'd like it to work? |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:10:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:12:14 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:16:37 | * | JdGordon apparently stumbled on a bug in the skin parser :'( |
| 10:16:44 | JdGordon | it doesnt bloody work! |
| 10:20:56 | | Join raghavme2 [0] (~7aa71db6@giant.haxx.se) |
| 10:21:22 | raghavme2 | hey guys, the http://build.rockbox.org/data/ipodclassic.zip file is 404... what happened? |
| 10:22:33 | Zagor | the url is http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipodclassic.zip |
| 10:23:40 | raghavme2 | oh thanks... i hope this contains the updated build which was released yesterday |
| 10:23:46 | Zagor | no |
| 10:24:11 | Zagor | that contains the bleeding edge build of whatever was last committed. go to www.rockbox.org for the release. |
| 10:24:31 | JdGordon | of which the classic isnt part of |
| 10:24:50 | Zagor | JdGordon: ah, true. |
| 10:25:12 | raghavme2 | not 3.8? where can i get bleeding edge compiled version of classic port? |
| 10:25:29 | raghavme2 | i mean the most latest containing the 3.8 bug fixes |
| 10:25:51 | gevaerts | If you want bleeding edge, you *don't* want the release |
| 10:26:00 | Zagor | the only one we produce is the test builds on the url I gave you earlier. |
| 10:26:10 | raghavme2 | right, i get it now :D |
| 10:26:18 | Zagor | but the port is marked "unusable" for a reason |
| 10:27:10 | raghavme2 | i've been using it on my classic since 1 mnth now... anything to get away from iOS... it crashes 2-3 times daily... but whatever.. its ok |
| 10:28:13 | | Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) |
| 10:31:28 | Zagor | hmm. why is fat_cache_sectors signed? |
| 10:31:41 | raghavme2 | all the best to RockBox and Freemyipod Team... i hope the classic port becomes stable with video playback support. |
| 10:33:31 | | Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@p4FE8F4B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:33:57 | | Quit raghavme2 (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 10:35:11 | Zagor | oh right, we use -Wno-pointer-sign |
| 10:35:31 | JdGordon | how would people feel about me breaking the touch skin tags? |
| 10:36:04 | JdGordon | I'm currently hacking the code to make them work better but I think the proper change is to actually change the tag param list order |
| 10:36:51 | | Quit kevku (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 10:38:27 | Zagor | JdGordon: what exactly would break? everything= |
| 10:38:31 | Zagor | ? |
| 10:38:44 | JdGordon | skins which use %Tl or %T |
| 10:38:57 | JdGordon | the two touchregion tags |
| 10:39:28 | Llorean | Supposedly 3.8 isn't shuffling properly, according to the forums. |
| 10:39:55 | Zagor | Llorean: is it not random enough? ;-) |
| 10:39:55 | JdGordon | I'm looking into another slightly less hacky way but it will still take some careful fiddling to make sure the right tihngs end up in the right place |
| 10:40:36 | Llorean | Zagor: It's not toggling. If you change the setting *during* playback ,it doesn't change the order of songs, according to the post. |
| 10:40:54 | Llorean | It applies to the next playlist launched, but not the current one. |
| 10:49:44 | | Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust964.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
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| 10:50:18 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 10:54:52 | JdGordon | hmm... testing touchregion changes in the c200 checkwps probbaly isnt a good idea :p |
| 10:55:54 | Zagor | hehe |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:24 | pixelma | JdGordon: I expected a way to only change something in the region that's press (or maybe with another tag) - and I *imagined* a way to achieve this would be to make the tag dependent on the order in the WPS file, similarly to how it is important for %xd in which viewport you put it (below which viewport definition). So a %Tl before every other defined %T in the skin file would affect the whole screen, below a %T(something) only this touch area. I'm |
| 11:01:24 | pixelma | not sure if this would work though |
| 11:01:40 | pixelma | or pressed |
| 11:15:16 | | Part LinusN |
| 11:19:01 | | Part Zagor |
| 11:23:49 | | Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 11:24:43 | pixelma | bluebroth3r: the ff, ffi etc. was not fixed for all systems before. It depended on build environment or so |
| 11:27:22 | pixelma | I remember comparing manuals from the site and ones I compiled myself to test a patch and one of them had the problem and the other didn't (can't remember which was which though). I think there still is an open bug report for it |
| 11:31:47 | JdGordon | [Saint]: i dont suppose you have a wps/sbs to test this with do you? |
| 11:35:22 | | Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 11:35:33 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Nup, not presently. I've no way of compiling an .apk to be able to test it either sorry. |
| 11:36:18 | [Saint] | a test .wps shouldn't be hard to come up with though. all it needs is two lines. |
| 11:36:20 | JdGordon | ok, no worries |
| 11:36:24 | JdGordon | indeed |
| 11:36:51 | [Saint] | How's it lookin' ? |
| 11:37:25 | JdGordon | code is done, testing... needed to hack a bit but its not as bad as i feared |
| 11:37:46 | JdGordon | I've added an optional label param to the start of both tags to link them |
| 11:38:08 | [Saint] | No breakage to existing touch defines? |
| 11:38:15 | JdGordon | nope, hence the hacks |
| 11:38:16 | [Saint] | (not that I care too much about that) |
| 11:38:36 | [Saint] | Nice. |
| 11:38:51 | JdGordon | I'm really loving the parser bieber built |
| 11:39:10 | JdGordon | its got some annoyances, but otherwise brilliant |
| 11:39:30 | [Saint] | That makes my sarcasm meter twitch a little, but I'm not sure it was supposed to. |
| 11:39:50 | JdGordon | nope |
| 11:45:09 | JdGordon | oh LOVELY..... kugel_: sdl is hiding my mouse in the sims... |
| 11:45:59 | JdGordon | and sdl shutdown is no faster than lastnight |
| 11:49:03 | CIA-70 | New commit by zagor (r29456): Made the fat test code compile again. |
| 11:50:33 | | Quit Kitar|st () |
| 11:51:12 | * | TheSeven got a weird data abort |
| 11:51:52 | CIA-70 | New commit by zagor (r29457): Added dummy autoconf.h for fat test. |
| 11:51:58 | TheSeven | "Data abort at 000017F0, FSR 0xf7 (domain 15, fault 7), address 0x80100DF0" |
| 11:52:30 | TheSeven | 0x000017F0 is in the middle of the voice stack and 0x80100DF0 is outside of address space |
| 11:52:50 | TheSeven | => someone jumped into the stack and there happened to be a memory access instruction? |
| 11:54:10 | CIA-70 | r29456 build result: All green |
| 11:55:05 | * | JdGordon grumbles |
| 11:55:06 | CIA-70 | New commit by jdgordon (r29458): brackets are important! fix the mouse being hidden in sims |
| 11:56:05 | JdGordon | [Saint]: it no worky :'( |
| 11:56:18 | [Saint] | Oh? |
| 11:56:22 | [Saint] | ....bgger. |
| 11:56:29 | [Saint] | *bugger too |
| 11:58:29 | JdGordon | ... well not yet anyway |
| 11:58:43 | CIA-70 | r29457 build result: All green |
| 11:59:44 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Regarding the mouse disappearing - I think it was thomasjfox's Pandora commit last night - http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/hosted/sdl/system-sdl.c?r1=29450;r2=29451;pathrev=29451 |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:03 | linuxstb | (he missed out the brackets in the #if) |
| 12:00:15 | * | TheSeven wonders where the elephants dream test files went |
| 12:00:23 | TheSeven | http://mikachu.rockbox.org/elephantsdream-q6-320x240-830kbps.mpg us 404 |
| 12:00:25 | TheSeven | is* |
| 12:00:46 | JdGordon | linuxstb: yeah, fixed :) |
| 12:00:59 | * | linuxstb was too slow... |
| 12:01:04 | JdGordon | Why is the sim not complaining on very wrong implict type casts? |
| 12:02:52 | CIA-70 | r29458 build result: All green |
| 12:04:42 | JdGordon | \o/ |
| 12:04:52 | TheSeven | what the heck is mikachu.rockbox.org? |
| 12:05:05 | TheSeven | the contents on there don't seem to have anything to do with rockbox :) |
| 12:05:15 | | Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 12:05:36 | linuxstb | IIRC, mikachu was a Rockbox user who had a fast server. So maybe the videos were hosted there. He hasn't been around for years though... |
| 12:05:38 | Zagor | well, it used to be a server holding our elephantsdream movies. apparently not anymore. |
| 12:05:40 | kugel_ | JdGordon: my commit shouldn't make it faster, it makes sure it happens at all |
| 12:05:41 | [Saint] | PoKemon need DAPs too? :) |
| 12:05:46 | Zagor | I'll pull the redirect. |
| 12:06:06 | linuxstb | Zagor: You have a copy as well then? |
| 12:06:14 | linuxstb | s/You/the download server/ |
| 12:06:17 | kugel_ | there was a race that could deadlock |
| 12:06:18 | Zagor | yes |
| 12:06:21 | JdGordon | ok |
| 12:08:26 | | Join _thomasjfox [0] (~tomj@fw.intra2net.com) |
| 12:08:42 | Zagor | now the movies are available again (although my chrome browser refuses to check again for some reason) |
| 12:08:49 | _thomasjfox | JdGordon: Sorry about the messed up brackets :) |
| 12:09:44 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: Thanks for fixing the shutdown handling! It looks good, I'll give it a test run in the evening |
| 12:10:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:10:51 | JdGordon | _thomasjfox: *grumble* :D just glad it was simple.... has someone disabled warnings in the smi builds? gcc shold have warned on that one and also my patches i've been working on today |
| 12:10:51 | linuxstb | Zagor: Firefox doesn't find them either (it still follows a redirection) |
| 12:10:54 | | Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@89.204.137.165) |
| 12:11:24 | linuxstb | Zagor: But wget does, so we can just blame our browsers. |
| 12:11:47 | JdGordon | also... kugel_, _thomasjfox, any ideas of a nice way to listen for actual keyboard events? I've got a patch somewhere which puts the SDL keycode from the keyboard in the button data and lets the lists use it to skip to that letter |
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| 12:12:29 | _thomasjfox | JdGordon: Didn't look into native keyboard integration yet |
| 12:12:53 | _thomasjfox | JdGordon: Is that patch in FS? |
| 12:13:00 | | Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:13:25 | kugel_ | don't you get key events with the button as key code? |
| 12:13:36 | kugel_ | same on android |
| 12:13:42 | kugel_ | iirc |
| 12:15:02 | JdGordon | _thomasjfox: it isnt yet, i'll try to dig it up and put it on FS... its very out of date though |
| 12:15:16 | JdGordon | more asking for a ncie way to integrate it with the different RaaA platforms now |
| 12:17:29 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: Yes, SDL sends events with the keycode. I just thought rockbox's button mechanism doesn't support keyboards? |
| 12:18:28 | _thomasjfox | JdGordon: I didn't get a warning from gcc either during maemo/pandora compile |
| 12:20:02 | CIA-70 | New commit by jdgordon (r29459): Add the option of linking the %Tl (last touch) tag to a specific touchregion. Both tags now accept an optional label param as the first param. ... |
| 12:20:27 | JdGordon | [Saint]: ^ |
| 12:20:31 | JdGordon | knock yourself out |
| 12:21:33 | * | kugel_ isn't sure if Pandora deserves to be a separate port. It's a plain sdl app isn't it? |
| 12:22:19 | linuxstb | Presumably it will develop to use more Pandora native stuff? |
| 12:22:34 | | Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@79.132.59.245) |
| 12:22:57 | JdGordon | erm... who was saying svn doesnt finish the ci? |
| 12:23:01 | _thomasjfox | linuxstb: Yes. I want to polish the wiki tonight, at least that was the plan |
| 12:23:39 | _thomasjfox | Already looked into the battery monitoring stuff ;) |
| 12:24:45 | CIA-70 | r29459 build result: All green |
| 12:24:57 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: There's already one platform specific code path in there and it will get more |
| 12:25:20 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: I just thought I do the incremental development more visible to others |
| 12:26:09 | kugel_ | the switch to fullscreen path? |
| 12:26:52 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: The "exit rockbox" key handling |
| 12:27:15 | _thomasjfox | SDL fullscreen switching wouldn't be Pandora specific ;) |
| 12:27:44 | kugel_ | BTW I can imagine people wanting rockbox to windowed on Pandora |
| 12:27:54 | JdGordon | also, gdb does a bunch of breakpoints in sdl init on the sims which is very annoying |
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| 12:28:49 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: Same reasoning is true for maemo, I prefer the windowed mode since I can compare both |
| 12:28:53 | kugel_ | JdGordon: use "handle SIGUSR1 nostopp pass" |
| 12:29:15 | AlexP_ | JdGordon: r.e. the version thing - in the past tools/version.sh was hacked up in the release branch to run the script anyway, then just do VERSION=3.8 echo $VERSION at the end (or similar). tools/release/bins.pl has an explicit version variable, but then didn't use that version for the builds, which IMO was confusing, so I changed bins.pl to use the version specified within it, which has the side effect that only builds built with bins.pl will say |
| 12:29:15 | AlexP_ | version 3.8, those just built normally will use svn version |
| 12:29:49 | AlexP_ | JdGordon: There are two solutions, add the hack to version.sh, or build with "make VERSION=xxx" |
| 12:29:57 | JdGordon | kugel_: everytime? thats really annoying |
| 12:30:28 | JdGordon | AlexP_: yeah, thats what i thought, no worries |
| 12:30:36 | JdGordon | also, i've added a manual bug for the commit i just did |
| 12:30:42 | _thomasjfox | JdGordon: You can put that in your gdb config IIRC |
| 12:30:53 | kugel_ | yes. but you can put it in a text file and pass it to gdb with -x |
| 12:31:22 | AlexP_ | JdGordon: I didn't bother, as the only official things we build from there will be done via the release scripts and so work as intended, and if people are building themselves they can specifiy any version they like when doing make :) |
| 12:31:22 | kugel_ | or you configure rockbox to use ask threads? |
| 12:31:25 | | Join leavittx [0] (~lev@89.221.199.187) |
| 12:31:38 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: I was thinking anyway if RaaA builds should have an "Exit" or "Quit" entry as last entry in the main menu? |
| 12:31:45 | kugel_ | there is a gdb config? |
| 12:32:38 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2045509/how-to-save-settings-in-gdb |
| 12:32:56 | kugel_ | other people have asked for it as well |
| 12:33:20 | kugel_ | I think I would rather see it the system sub menu |
| 12:34:17 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: System menu would be less prominent, yes. |
| 12:34:31 | linuxstb | Isn't it already there on the player? |
| 12:34:34 | linuxstb | s/player/Player/ |
| 12:34:40 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: Though it's not very intuitive to find it there... |
| 12:34:48 | * | kugel_ doesn't want hit it accidentally too |
| 12:35:35 | kugel_ | with that argument you need to put everything into the main menu :-) |
| 12:35:37 | linuxstb | _thomasjfox: Search for LANG_SHUTDOWN in apps/root_menu.c - I'm guessing you can just enable that... |
| 12:35:47 | * | _thomasjfox will add a yesno() question for kugel's clumsy fingers :o) |
| 12:35:53 | * | linuxstb has no opinion about whether it's wanted though... |
| 12:36:21 | kugel_ | if you're in windowed mode the item is redundant as well and useless in the main menu |
| 12:37:03 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: Yes, that is true (in windowed mode) |
| 12:37:15 | JdGordon | items can be hidden |
| 12:37:20 | JdGordon | but i agree, it shuold go in system |
| 12:37:24 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: Only adding items while in fullscreen mode sucks too |
| 12:37:32 | JdGordon | and a touchregion should be added also :) |
| 12:37:33 | | Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:38:53 | kugel_ | as hockey perhaps? |
| 12:40:00 | _thomasjfox | so the system menu + yesno() question would be ok? |
| 12:40:29 | * | _thomasjfox guesses HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS is for remote displays |
| 12:40:48 | kugel_ | wrong :-) |
| 12:41:18 | | Quit eGen (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:41:25 | _thomasjfox | The LANG_SHUTDOWN stuff is inside HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS... |
| 12:41:39 | * | TheSeven spots another bug |
| 12:42:06 | kugel_ | the archos player has a charcell display, all others a bitmap one |
| 12:42:06 | TheSeven | apparently the sbs is not redrawn correctly in the text file viewer |
| 12:42:22 | TheSeven | (at least with the iLike theme) |
| 12:42:54 | _thomasjfox | kugel_: Doh! Just had to look at the ifdef name more closely |
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| 12:45:57 | _thomasjfox | anyway, gotta run. If I do anything to the shutdown menu entry, I'll put it in FS |
| 12:47:17 | | Quit _thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:53:03 | | Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving) |
| 12:54:30 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29460): iPod Classic: Fix YUV blitting. Mpegplayer works now. |
| 12:55:43 | linuxstb | kugel_: In this commit, is the "defined(APPLICATION)" in the first #if just a mistake? http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/main.c?r1=28785&r2=28784&pathrev=28785 |
| 12:55:59 | linuxstb | TheSeven: How fast is mpegplayer? Can it play fullscreen video at fullspeed? |
| 12:57:16 | TheSeven | linuxstb: I don't notice frame drops with 320x240 elephants dream |
| 12:57:26 | TheSeven | test_fps gets 42fps fullscreen YUV when boosted |
| 12:57:44 | linuxstb | Perfect! Time to port an xvid player... |
| 12:58:20 | TheSeven | and i'm pretty sure we can speed that up a damn lot |
| 12:59:00 | CIA-70 | r29460 build result: All green |
| 12:59:12 | TheSeven | we need a proper way to do vsync... |
| 13:00 |
| 13:03:56 | TheSeven | linuxstb: ~25fps in mpegplayer |
| 13:04:02 | TheSeven | that will need some tweaking |
| 13:04:26 | kugel_ | linuxstb: it looks lily |
| 13:04:33 | kugel_ | like* |
| 13:04:56 | linuxstb | TheSeven: Ah, I misread your previous comment - I thought you meant 42fps in mpegplayer... |
| 13:05:15 | TheSeven | no, 42fps raw blitting speed (limited by the LCD interface, not the CPU) |
| 13:05:25 | CIA-70 | New commit by dave (r29461): Remove a redundant part of a #if |
| 13:05:30 | TheSeven | RGB/YUV doesn't make much of a difference |
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| 13:05:54 | TheSeven | so if we do LCD DMA we might even reach 40fps in mpegplayer |
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| 13:07:14 | kugel_ | 42 fps is quite slow |
| 13:08:42 | pixelma | the shutdown in the menu option on the Player has a different reason than that it has a charcell display, maybe it should use something else for the if - sounds misleading now |
| 13:09:51 | linuxstb | pixelma: I was wondering that - I guess checking for "PLAYER_PAD" would be more appropriate, as it relates to the Player's keypad? |
| 13:09:55 | CIA-70 | r29461 build result: All green |
| 13:10:35 | | Quit rasher (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
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| 13:11:46 | pixelma | I think that it has to do with the pad (and some hardwired power-off) or so but I'm not a 100% sure |
| 13:12:37 | linuxstb | Isn't it to do with the hardwired power-off cutting in too quickly, not giving Rockbox time to shutdown cleanly? |
| 13:13:53 | pixelma | that's what I remember too |
| 13:14:15 | * | linuxstb goes with that... |
| 13:14:37 | CIA-70 | New commit by dave (r29462): Change the condition for including the shutdown menu item to something more appropriate. |
| 13:15:17 | kugel_ | my album art is too big :-( |
| 13:15:56 | kugel_ | android can't handle loading it, OOM exception (for the widget) |
| 13:16:14 | kugel_ | rockbox itself displays it fine of course |
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| 13:19:06 | CIA-70 | r29462 build result: All green |
| 13:19:06 | * | pixelma wonders if the %Tl change is more complicated than needed and would have liked more time for such a design decision |
| 13:21:27 | Zagor | has anyone documented the difference between SIMULATOR and __PCTOOL__? |
| 13:22:19 | kugel_ | Zagor: pctool is checkwps and the database tool |
| 13:22:41 | Zagor | yeah, but in more detail. as in how each affects the code. |
| 13:23:22 | kugel_ | then no :-) |
| 13:23:23 | Zagor | I still get confused sometimes, and newcomers are almost guaranteed to be |
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| 13:24:34 | gevaerts | Zagor: I think it's the usual "hm, it doesn't work. What if I add an #ifdef __PCTOOL__?" |
| 13:24:57 | gevaerts | SIMULATOR should be a subset of PLATFORM_HOSTED these days I think |
| 13:25:03 | Zagor | gevaerts: yes, that is a definite risk. some explanation could avoid that. |
| 13:25:40 | gevaerts | while I'd say __PCTOOL__ is for any tool that expects to be compiled in a non-rockbox environment, i.e. without the full API layer being available |
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| 13:31:45 | amiconn | linuxstb: It has to do with the hardwired poweroff kicking in too quickly *and* being on the wrong button so we can't use the double-tap poweroff like on recorder v1 |
| 13:32:01 | amiconn | So yes, it's related to the pad |
| 13:34:01 | | Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 13:35:03 | kugel_ | amiconn: would it be bad if it's moved to the system menu? |
| 13:37:17 | pixelma | sounds inconvenient especially if you are used to it otherwise for years |
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| 13:42:37 | pixelma | put mildly |
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| 13:44:45 | kugel_ | ? |
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| 13:47:12 | JdGordon | pixelma: passive agressive doesnt work... if you want to say something say it |
| 13:47:31 | JdGordon | and no, any other way would be crap in comparisson |
| 13:47:44 | JdGordon | not to mention inconsistent with the rest of the tags |
| 13:48:05 | pixelma | I said what I think, that it was too quick for a design decision |
| 13:48:43 | pixelma | and I don't see where that was agressive at all |
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| 13:51:19 | pixelma | kugel_: you have easy ways to access the main menu from anywhere, if you know have to search for the shutdown option in some submenu that is a very big change in the user interface after years of the thing being in the main menu |
| 13:51:36 | pixelma | s/know/now |
| 13:52:57 | n1s | JdGordon: svn ci sometimes doesn't return for me |
| 13:55:24 | kugel_ | pixelma: true, both archos player will maybe find it less convenient |
| 13:56:01 | kugel_ | but imo it was wrong in the main menu in the first place, and it shouldn't be there on raaa |
| 13:56:15 | pixelma | could you leave out your personal opinion of how many users there are? |
| 13:56:25 | Zagor | kugel_: it shouldn't be in any menu of raaa, should it? |
| 13:57:39 | JdGordon | RaaA (especially on android) *needs* a restart command |
| 13:57:40 | kugel_ | Zagor: it's not needed on android, but on other platforms. plus, people keep asking for it |
| 13:58:03 | JdGordon | without it there is no reliable way of enableing some settings |
| 13:58:06 | pixelma | main menu makes perfect sense to me for the above mentioned reason and its a main function there (even though *I* may just stop music and let idle power-off kick in) |
| 13:58:18 | kugel_ | we also have still some places where rockbox expects to be rebooted |
| 13:59:01 | Zagor | so what's the issue. some platforms need a restart entry. other platforms need shutdown easily accessible. |
| 13:59:27 | JdGordon | it should not go in the main menu, that will look really bad |
| 13:59:41 | Zagor | it doesn't have to be in the same menu on archos and raaa |
| 13:59:53 | JdGordon | I wouldnt mind seeing the hardware menu button popup a menu with an exit button on android to acheeive it |
| 13:59:58 | Zagor | the uses cases are *very* different |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:42 | Zagor | JdGordon: yes, I think that is what most users would expect |
| 14:00:58 | dionoea | hello |
| 14:01:11 | dionoea | kugel_: does you album art support for widgets also work with embedded album art ? |
| 14:01:18 | dionoea | *your |
| 14:01:40 | kugel_ | no |
| 14:02:59 | kugel_ | but I think it can be done, e.g. by writing the aa into a temp file |
| 14:04:32 | kugel_ | I'd hate if menu would make a pop up just for the exit item. its currently used for what menu does on daps too |
| 14:05:57 | Zagor | sure, but exit needs to be easily found |
| 14:06:36 | kugel_ | the system menu isn't hard to fins |
| 14:06:39 | JdGordon | I'd also put a button for the WPS, context menu and report bug there |
| 14:06:41 | Zagor | and all apps I have seen with an exit option show them in the root menu level |
| 14:06:46 | kugel_ | find* |
| 14:07:21 | Zagor | kugel_: no, but it's not entirely logical either. "exit" isn't a system level operation. |
| 14:07:40 | kugel_ | it isn't? |
| 14:08:19 | JdGordon | if it had to go in the menu structure I'd want it under system also, def not the main menu |
| 14:08:48 | Zagor | everything else in system modifies or examins things with rockbox. exit does not. |
| 14:09:28 | TheSeven | are you talking about simulators or app builds? |
| 14:09:31 | JdGordon | true, but exit is not something which is actually going to be used often |
| 14:09:46 | Zagor | JdGordon: that's a good point |
| 14:09:54 | kugel_ | I see it rather as a stash for everything that doesn't fit elsewhere |
| 14:10:11 | TheSeven | for simulators, i wouldn't like to have it in the main menu to keep screenshots accurate |
| 14:10:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:10:30 | JdGordon | I think we are just talking RaaA (specifically android here) |
| 14:10:31 | TheSeven | ideally not in any menu at all |
| 14:10:35 | TheSeven | ok |
| 14:11:59 | pixelma | and there's also the difference to the Player - in which case it is turning the device off completely whereas on RaaA it's "just" about closing an app on a device that will probably stay powered for other reasons. So I agree that it can easily be handled differently (and probably should) |
| 14:12:20 | Zagor | JdGordon: if viewed as "apply start-time settings", I certainly can agree it fits better in system |
| 14:12:24 | kugel_ | every item in the main menu that's used seldom but makes it more likely to scroll is a bad fit imo |
| 14:13:11 | Zagor | though main menu scrolling isn't a big problem on android, is it? |
| 14:13:21 | Zagor | unless the default themed change a lot since last I looked |
| 14:14:09 | kugel_ | I have a patch that adds line spacing, any new item will make it scroll on my phone |
| 14:14:42 | linuxstb | kugel_: So then you wouldn't see it? |
| 14:14:46 | * | kugel_ intends to commit it some time |
| 14:14:53 | JdGordon | Zagor: yeah, but that language string would be a bit awkward |
| 14:16:15 | kugel_ | linuxstb: no, but the overly ugly scrollbar |
| 14:16:53 | linuxstb | Couldn't RaaA use the native list widget, instead of Rockbox's? |
| 14:17:04 | kugel_ | not easily |
| 14:17:10 | linuxstb | Why? |
| 14:17:36 | kugel_ | hard to code |
| 14:17:53 | JdGordon | I dont agree with that |
| 14:18:08 | linuxstb | Isn't it "just" a matter of implementing Rockbox's list API as a wrapper to the host's? |
| 14:18:21 | JdGordon | bi-directional but yes |
| 14:18:23 | kugel_ | then do it if it's easy |
| 14:18:33 | JdGordon | its a bit of glue |
| 14:19:25 | kugel_ | it will be a lot awkward too, not everything in rockbox uses lists |
| 14:19:44 | linuxstb | kugel_: It's unlikely I'll do it. I'm just raising the idea in case somebody else does... |
| 14:20:01 | linuxstb | But this is how I always envisaged RaaA to be. |
| 14:20:10 | kugel_ | the idea is not new |
| 14:20:25 | JdGordon | more chance of stripping the playback engine out and making a completly java GUI for it |
| 14:22:10 | Zagor | well, the list code isn't really the problem there :-) |
| 14:22:25 | Zagor | though of course every little helps |
| 14:22:40 | JdGordon | and if/when that ever happens I'd really love to rebuild apps/ and remove a ton of crap |
| 14:23:14 | JdGordon | like... charcell and hwcodec :D |
| 14:25:03 | * | kugel_ doesn't want to lose theming abilities |
| 14:25:39 | TheSeven | kugel_: but app builds are likely to have completely different theming requirements than regular targets |
| 14:25:53 | TheSeven | so that could probably be done much more flexible in java |
| 14:26:12 | TheSeven | breaking theme compatibility with regular targets IMHO isn't a big deal |
| 14:26:22 | kugel_ | I wouldn't want a rockbox that strips all the awesome features away only to be able to use OS widgets |
| 14:26:36 | Zagor | I don't think we have to choose either/or. we can have both variants. |
| 14:26:39 | JdGordon | Zagor: how's your surgery going? is it on git? can others help? or *WAAAY* too early still? |
| 14:27:18 | Zagor | JdGordon: it's a bit early to share, yes. |
| 14:27:28 | | Nick knitt1 is now known as knittl (~knittl@unaffiliated/knittl) |
| 14:29:10 | linuxstb | kugel_: What would be lost by using OS widgets? You could even gain things if they are more powerful/themable than Rockbox's own implementations. |
| 14:29:11 | JdGordon | ok, we know our codecs kick ass, and our playback engine sort-of doesnt... would it be feasable to grab an engine that actually works and retrofit rockbox around it more cleanly? |
| 14:29:25 | JdGordon | instead of pulling ours out? |
| 14:30:39 | TheSeven | JdGordon: rewrite that beast from scratch? |
| 14:30:49 | Zagor | JdGordon: you mean you think there's a playback engine out there that would suit our needs and suck less? somehow I doubt it. |
| 14:30:52 | JdGordon | grab it from somewhere else? |
| 14:31:00 | JdGordon | just a thought :p |
| 14:31:15 | TheSeven | well, how exactly does ours suck? |
| 14:31:28 | TheSeven | IIUC the root cause for most of the trouble is race conditions somewhere |
| 14:31:31 | Zagor | TheSeven: it's not exactly KISS |
| 14:31:44 | JdGordon | we cant test it, it has unknown bugs, multiple authors |
| 14:31:58 | TheSeven | why can't we test it? |
| 14:32:43 | JdGordon | you cant script it at all which makes some bugs impossible to reliably reproduce |
| 14:32:50 | JdGordon | maybe im being too harsh |
| 14:33:12 | kugel_ | I wanted raaa so that I can run the rockbox I love from my daps on my phone, and not yet another generic android media player |
| 14:33:40 | TheSeven | kugel_: do you really want *that rockbox* or *rockbox's features*? |
| 14:34:13 | Zagor | kugel_: the question is, what is rockbox for you? |
| 14:34:27 | TheSeven | JdGordon: I'm thinking about some unit/regression testing system |
| 14:34:38 | kugel_ | the features, all of them. if OS widgets mean giving up some I'm not a fan |
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| 14:34:51 | TheSeven | this would need to have multiple layers |
| 14:34:52 | | Join webguest377 [0] (~4e6dba04@giant.haxx.se) |
| 14:35:03 | webguest377 | Is anybody here to help? |
| 14:35:19 | TheSeven | 128 people, to be exact :) |
| 14:35:43 | webguest377 | They could have been idle |
| 14:35:46 | webguest377 | Anyway |
| 14:35:50 | TheSeven | some probably are |
| 14:35:59 | webguest377 | I installed Rockbox yesterday on my Sansa Clip+ |
| 14:36:03 | webguest377 | and i can play music using it |
| 14:36:16 | JdGordon | :O |
| 14:36:17 | webguest377 | but when i plug it into my computer it says it needs to be reformatted before it can be used |
| 14:36:32 | webguest377 | so i can't put any new songs on it |
| 14:36:47 | webguest377 | How do i fix this |
| 14:37:20 | TheSeven | in the original firmware you can access it fine? |
| 14:37:48 | webguest377 | When i plug it in it looks like it uses the original firmware, it has Sansa written on the device |
| 14:37:55 | webguest377 | and says "Connected" on the device |
| 14:38:06 | webguest377 | and it is charging up |
| 14:38:14 | TheSeven | ok, so the clip+ uses the OF for USB? |
| 14:38:25 | TheSeven | hm... that's a bit weird then |
| 14:38:36 | TheSeven | can the OF (original firmware) see the songs on it? |
| 14:38:44 | webguest377 | OF = official firmware? |
| 14:38:49 | webguest377 | oops, didnt see that |
| 14:38:52 | webguest377 | yeah |
| 14:39:15 | TheSeven | if you unplug and replug it while running the OF, do things get better? |
| 14:39:25 | webguest377 | lemme just try |
| 14:39:51 | webguest377 | It will take a minute, the clip has to "Refresh media" every time you unplug it |
| 14:41:27 | Zagor | kugel_: as always, different people have different opinions. personally I think the classic rockbox gui is a bit to "strange" for an android app, and I'd be willing to give up some skinning for better integration. |
| 14:42:33 | | Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 14:42:42 | kugel_ | I'm using the list item spacing patch since some time with which it doesn't look so strange |
| 14:42:45 | | Join antil33t [0] (antil33t@124-197-51-80.callplus.net.nz) |
| 14:42:58 | Zagor | I'm looking forward to trying that |
| 14:43:00 | webguest377 | Ok. |
| 14:43:16 | webguest377 | If it is turned on and running the OF and then i plug it in it does not work either |
| 14:43:23 | kugel_ | if we also enable the statusbar it'll be even less strange |
| 14:43:33 | TheSeven | so you basically have no way to access the storage from a PC any more? |
| 14:43:39 | webguest377 | no |
| 14:43:56 | webguest377 | No i do not, i mean. |
| 14:43:58 | Torne | webguest377: try with another computer/cable. |
| 14:44:16 | webguest377 | I have neither of those things |
| 14:44:16 | TheSeven | what does the partition manager in windows say? does it see a partition at all? is the size correct? |
| 14:44:24 | webguest377 | It has never been a problem accessing it before though |
| 14:44:27 | kugel_ | Zagor: the android-test-plugins branch on my git repo has it. in fact I'm running that branch |
| 14:44:38 | webguest377 | i dont know what partition manager is |
| 14:45:20 | webguest377 | I can access the microSD card that is plugged into the Clip |
| 14:45:24 | TheSeven | you get a drive letter for it? if you right click it and choose properties, what are the free/used/total sizes? does it show the file system type? |
| 14:46:21 | kugel_ | I'm also using aa fonts and use the font that android also uses |
| 14:46:24 | n1s | I also think a more "native style" ui would fit better for apps on various hosted platforms |
| 14:46:46 | TheSeven | the windows partition manager is in the computer management console (compmgmt.msc) called something like "drive management" |
| 14:47:43 | Zagor | kugel_: can you make a quick screenshot? |
| 14:48:09 | webguest377 | it says it is 0 bytes |
| 14:48:44 | TheSeven | so the microsd card works, but not the internal storage? |
| 14:48:50 | webguest377 | correct |
| 14:49:03 | TheSeven | i think we can exclude USB problems then |
| 14:49:28 | TheSeven | did you find that drive management thing? |
| 14:49:28 | pixelma | what about MSC/MTP mode? |
| 14:49:48 | webguest377 | i don't know what that is, sorry |
| 14:49:55 | TheSeven | would it even show a volume in MTP mode? |
| 14:49:59 | | Join Highlander [0] (~Highlande@mek33-4-82-236-45-205.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:50:31 | * | TheSeven doesn't have a sansa himself, so he can only guess |
| 14:50:37 | | Quit parafin (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:50:56 | | Join parafin [0] (parafin@paraf.in) |
| 14:50:58 | TheSeven | regarding my unit and regression testing proposal: |
| 14:50:58 | TheSeven | 1) have a set of tests for most drivers, running on the real hardware, replacing the apps layer |
| 14:50:58 | TheSeven | 2) have some shared unit testing framework that does e.g. hardware simulation, and can also simulate timing behavior |
| 14:50:58 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TheSeven |
| 14:50:58 | TheSeven | 3) have a bunch of unit tests for individual components like playback, buffering, codecs, etc. |
| 14:50:58 | TheSeven | 4) make those tests try really hard to hit race conditions, and possibly also measure latencies of e.g. buffering |
| 14:50:58 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 14:50:58 | TheSeven | 5) possibly allow to run those high-level tests on real hardware as well |
| 14:50:59 | *** | Alert Mode level 2 |
| 14:50:59 | TheSeven | 6) automate as much of it as possible |
| 14:51:03 | pixelma | I believe it shows up as something with a name in the Windows explorer but without drive letter |
| 14:51:10 | | Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) |
| 14:51:20 | pixelma | in MTP mode |
| 14:51:27 | TheSeven | pixelma: windows would not ask someone to format that though |
| 14:51:36 | pixelma | true that |
| 14:52:47 | n1s | maybe the partition is screwed up and works in rb by luck |
| 14:53:13 | | Nick kugel_ is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 14:53:31 | n1s | TheSeven: is there really a need to replace the apps layer for 1) could it not be done via plugins like the already present test_* plugins? |
| 14:54:38 | kugel | Zagor: http://imagebin.org/140351 |
| 14:54:41 | TheSeven | n1s: that will only work if the drivers aren't broken too badly |
| 14:54:56 | TheSeven | and all drivers are already present |
| 14:55:10 | Zagor | TheSeven: that sounds excellent. when will it be ready? ;-) |
| 14:55:30 | TheSeven | i'm thinking that this kind of tests could be very helpful while porting to new targets, so i would like to keep the requirements down to the absolute minimum |
| 14:55:31 | n1s | TheSeven: so tyou mean to have that more as an aid for developing new ports? |
| 14:55:32 | Zagor | kugel: nice |
| 14:56:15 | TheSeven | both that and to debug existing ones |
| 14:56:34 | kugel | then I also possibly want that the line selector draws "under" the icon, that plus the android statusbar, is pretty good and not too hostile if you ask me |
| 14:56:54 | webguest377 | Ok, i turned "USB Mode" on the Clip to "Auto Detect" and now I can see the internal memory |
| 14:57:03 | n1s | and yes, such test frameworks would be very nice |
| 14:57:07 | webguest377 | it recognises it as 8GB |
| 14:57:10 | TheSeven | what was it previously set to? |
| 14:57:19 | webguest377 | and it sees that it only has 251MB free |
| 14:57:24 | webguest377 | but i cant see any of the songs on it |
| 14:57:30 | webguest377 | and it was on MSC |
| 14:57:41 | | Quit Highlander (Quit: Quitte) |
| 14:57:47 | kugel | maybe also a thin line between items |
| 14:58:03 | TheSeven | kugel: thin, and dotted :) |
| 14:59:12 | kugel | why dotted? |
| 14:59:38 | TheSeven | because it looks nice |
| 14:59:39 | webguest377 | http://lulzimg.com/i13/5aafc6.png It knows there is stuff on it |
| 14:59:43 | webguest377 | but i just can't view it |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:12 | TheSeven | well, that is MTP now |
| 15:01:00 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 15:01:04 | webguest377 | Where is the music stored if it is in none of the folders and not in the root |
| 15:01:06 | Torne | how did you put the music on there originally? |
| 15:01:22 | webguest377 | Before i installed Rockbox i used to just drag it on |
| 15:01:33 | webguest377 | it use to come up as "removable storage" |
| 15:01:38 | webguest377 | so i just put it on like that |
| 15:01:48 | Torne | right. it used to be in MSC mode then |
| 15:01:56 | Torne | When in MTP mode you can't see files that were copied in MSC mode |
| 15:01:58 | webguest377 | I changed USB mode on the device to "Auto Detect" and now it comes up as Sansa Clip+ |
| 15:01:59 | Torne | and vice versa |
| 15:02:01 | Torne | rockbox can see both |
| 15:02:02 | kugel | Zagor: imo the UI is pretty enjoyable (with the patches I have applied) |
| 15:02:15 | webguest377 | how do i fix this? |
| 15:02:32 | Torne | you need to be in MSC mode. |
| 15:02:37 | webguest377 | MSC mode does not work |
| 15:02:42 | webguest377 | it says i need to format it |
| 15:02:59 | Torne | taht doesn't change the fact that you need to be in MSC mode |
| 15:03:02 | n1s | webguest377: what happens if you format it? |
| 15:03:06 | linuxstb | kugel: Do you have a binary available with all your patches? |
| 15:03:14 | webguest377 | I haven't tried formatting it |
| 15:03:17 | kugel | no |
| 15:03:17 | webguest377 | i dont want to lose my music |
| 15:03:57 | webguest377 | I'll try swapping back to msc and see if it still happens |
| 15:04:02 | TheSeven | webguest377: you seriously only have your music on your sansa, and no backup of it? |
| 15:04:15 | webguest377 | I have it on an external HDD |
| 15:04:19 | webguest377 | but there is 8GB of it |
| 15:04:26 | webguest377 | and i need to go out soon |
| 15:05:01 | Torne | webguest377: http://www.theeldergeek.com/disk_management.htm <- this is how to access Disk Management; put the device back to MSC mode, and take a screenshot of that while it's attached |
| 15:05:14 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Lämnar) |
| 15:05:25 | webguest377 | Ok, give me a few minutes. |
| 15:07:07 | kugel | linuxstb: you can clone my repo and build yourself |
| 15:08:58 | linuxstb | kugel: Yes, I'll just do that. |
| 15:11:12 | webguest377 | http://i53.tinypic.com/x6fupz.png |
| 15:11:17 | webguest377 | F: is the Clip |
| 15:11:24 | webguest377 | H: is the microSD card inside of it |
| 15:11:35 | linuxstb | kugel: So your argument is basically that Rockbox can be made to look close enough to the Android UI that there's no need to use native widgets? |
| 15:12:33 | | Join AndroUser2 [0] (~androirc@mobileinternet2.o2.ie) |
| 15:13:16 | kugel | linuxstb: you can put it this way yes |
| 15:13:39 | kugel | the list spacing thing is more a usability thing rather than matching android's UI though |
| 15:13:41 | TheSeven | webguest377: but both the OF and rockbox can access the files just fine? |
| 15:13:53 | webguest377 | Yes |
| 15:13:53 | | Quit AndroUser2 (Client Quit) |
| 15:13:53 | TheSeven | that's a bit weird, as this screenshot looks like s smashed MBR |
| 15:14:11 | TheSeven | er, partition superblock (PBR), not MBR |
| 15:14:48 | Torne | I would guess something has managed to trash a field in the BPB that we don't care about |
| 15:16:08 | | Join Stephenc__ [0] (~androirc@62.40.36.13) |
| 15:16:24 | Torne | or some kind of really obscure bug in the OF's USB code :) |
| 15:16:46 | webguest377 | This only started to happen after i installed Rockbox |
| 15:19:00 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 15:19:00 | * | TheSeven would like to see an image of that |
| 15:19:11 | Torne | TheSeven: yeah |
| 15:19:43 | webguest377 | an image of what? |
| 15:19:47 | Torne | The filesystem |
| 15:19:49 | * | TheSeven wonders if he should try remote rohpod |
| 15:20:10 | webguest377 | how would i get an image of that |
| 15:20:21 | Torne | not particularly easily. |
| 15:20:24 | Torne | hm |
| 15:20:29 | Torne | download this: http://www.runtime.org/diskexpl.zip |
| 15:20:55 | Torne | that can look at the disk for us |
| 15:21:01 | Torne | you should be able to pick to open the F: drive with it |
| 15:21:09 | Torne | and then hopefully it will display the BPB |
| 15:21:28 | | Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:7d0:0:f9af:feed:feed:feed:feed) |
| 15:21:42 | webguest377 | Ok, i've installed it. |
| 15:21:49 | webguest377 | You will have to tell me how to use it though. |
| 15:22:30 | Torne | i can't, really :) |
| 15:22:41 | Torne | i don't have windows handy |
| 15:22:50 | kugel | linuxstb: you forgot some #ifdef in your last commit |
| 15:22:55 | Torne | er. pick the first button on the toolbar, the floppy disk |
| 15:23:01 | Torne | should come up with a list of disks, pick F: |
| 15:23:12 | kugel | s/some/one/, line 463 |
| 15:23:13 | | Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 15:24:44 | webguest377 | ChanServ: http://i54.tinypic.com/2jxflh.png |
| 15:24:53 | webguest377 | Didn't mean to put chanserv |
| 15:25:03 | TheSeven | now click OK |
| 15:25:08 | | Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) |
| 15:25:10 | Torne | Oh, er, there's no partition table there |
| 15:25:16 | Torne | Is the clip+ supposed to be parttiioned? |
| 15:25:29 | webguest377 | I have no idea |
| 15:25:29 | sideral | Torne: No, it isn't |
| 15:25:34 | Torne | ah ok |
| 15:25:40 | Torne | Yeah, hit ok and it should show you the BPB |
| 15:25:43 | Torne | maybe. |
| 15:25:58 | Torne | if it's too broken it may not guess the right format |
| 15:26:05 | Torne | hit, er, view -> FAT32 boot parameter block |
| 15:26:07 | Torne | or something similarly named |
| 15:26:18 | webguest377 | http://i52.tinypic.com/2zgrygz.png |
| 15:26:28 | Torne | Yeah, that's the one |
| 15:26:36 | Torne | So that looks superficially valid |
| 15:26:54 | Torne | i am not sure why windows wouldn't be willing to mount that |
| 15:27:46 | Torne | diskexplorer seems perfectly happy to locate all the FS structures |
| 15:27:59 | TheSeven | maybe the root directory cluster chain being corrupted or something? |
| 15:28:04 | Torne | possibly. |
| 15:28:16 | Torne | anyway, it looks like the filesystem has gotten screwed up |
| 15:28:34 | Torne | open a command prompt and run chkdsk /f f: |
| 15:28:42 | Torne | close diskexplorer first. |
| 15:28:55 | Torne | (this probably wont' work but it won't hurt to try) |
| 15:29:14 | webguest377 | it said "Invalid parameter - f:" |
| 15:29:27 | Torne | right. so yes, it's somehow screwed enough that windows refuses to even look at it |
| 15:29:51 | Torne | Probably your only hope to fix the FS without erasing it is to try another operating system |
| 15:30:02 | Torne | We'd probably like to look at it and see what is wrong, tbh :) |
| 15:30:10 | webguest377 | i have Ubuntu installed with VirtualBox |
| 15:30:12 | Torne | i believe diskexplorer knows how to make disk images but i'm not sure. |
| 15:30:24 | Torne | and a disk image of the whole thing is gonna be, well, 8GB |
| 15:31:46 | Torne | ok, well, it's up to you really: we would probably like to see a disk image to see what went wrong, in case it was rockbox that corrupted it |
| 15:32:00 | Torne | you could also try attaching it in Ubuntu and seeing if fsck.vfat can fix it |
| 15:32:13 | TheSeven | [15:29] <webguest377> it said "Invalid parameter - f:" << wrong parameter order? |
| 15:32:16 | Torne | it may be able to, or it might screw it over worse and you'll be ofrced to format it anyway |
| 15:32:29 | Torne | TheSeven: I'm pretty sure that means it can't recognise the filesystem |
| 15:32:32 | webguest377 | i typed "chkdsk /f f:" |
| 15:32:44 | Torne | invalid parameter to a syscall, rather than to the command |
| 15:32:59 | Torne | or just that f: isn't a FAT/NTFS disk |
| 15:33:12 | Torne | i believe chkdsk doesn't operate on things that are unmountable :( |
| 15:33:36 | webguest377 | oh hold on |
| 15:33:41 | webguest377 | i must have typed it wrong |
| 15:33:46 | webguest377 | i tried again and it's doing something |
| 15:33:53 | Torne | oh? |
| 15:33:55 | webguest377 | i'll copy what it says here |
| 15:34:02 | | Join evilnick_B [0] (0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 15:34:04 | Torne | No, put it in a pastebin :) |
| 15:34:09 | sideral | Who's maintaining the official git repo at git://git.rockbox.org/rockbox? I think I found a way to perform surgery on it to include all branches (including the release branches) without breaking any existing commit IDs |
| 15:34:45 | webguest377 | http://www.pastie.org/1616884 |
| 15:35:09 | Torne | TheSeven: Yep, you're right |
| 15:35:13 | Torne | the root directory cluster chain was fucked |
| 15:35:24 | Torne | Okay, so tell it yes |
| 15:35:33 | Torne | but the result of this is likely to be that many of your files are destroyed anyway |
| 15:35:47 | Torne | so even if it makes the filesystem work you are probably going to need to reformat and copy all the files on there anyway |
| 15:36:18 | webguest377 | ah it works now |
| 15:36:19 | webguest377 | http://www.pastie.org/1616887 |
| 15:36:26 | webguest377 | that's just if you're interested in what it said |
| 15:36:28 | webguest377 | thanks |
| 15:36:40 | Torne | This has *definately* corryupted soem of your files |
| 15:36:42 | * | TheSeven wonders what the hell you did to that partition :) |
| 15:36:46 | Torne | I recommend you format it and copy all the files on there again |
| 15:36:54 | Torne | becuase otherwise you are goignt o experience random odd problems |
| 15:36:57 | webguest377 | Do i have to format? |
| 15:37:01 | webguest377 | can i just delete the songs |
| 15:37:01 | Torne | Not right now maybe |
| 15:37:08 | Torne | No, format it |
| 15:37:13 | Torne | at some point. |
| 15:37:23 | Torne | until you do, don't trust it to work or report any bugs :) |
| 15:37:39 | webguest377 | Ok, i'll have to do it some other time |
| 15:37:41 | webguest377 | Thanks for the help |
| 15:37:43 | Torne | the filenames it mentioned are definately corrupt |
| 15:37:46 | Torne | Other files may also be |
| 15:37:54 | TheSeven | i wonder how that could have been corrupted |
| 15:38:10 | TheSeven | the corruption seems to be scattered around quite a lot, both bad dir entries and fat corruption... |
| 15:38:21 | CIA-70 | New commit by kugel (r29463): Fix returning to wps from a plugin. |
| 15:38:25 | Torne | TheSeven: i wonder that we are happy to mount a filesystem with a root directory with an out-of-bounds cluster in it |
| 15:38:35 | Torne | :) |
| 15:39:04 | webguest377 | do you 2 make Rockbox? |
| 15:39:14 | TheSeven | Torne: that probably just makes the storage layer report an I/O error, which will probably fail a readdir() call, which is interpreted as "end of directory" |
| 15:39:14 | Torne | not on our own :) |
| 15:39:20 | Torne | TheSeven: yuck |
| 15:39:26 | Torne | TheSeven: we should probably be more careful than that |
| 15:40:08 | TheSeven | currently there is no way to distinguish an error from end of directory because the readdir will just return a null pointer in both cases |
| 15:40:30 | Torne | yes, i mean the FAT code should probably check that cluster numbers are at least in bounds |
| 15:40:45 | Torne | obviously it can't detect crosslinks at read time but that appears to be worse than just a crosslink |
| 15:41:18 | Torne | actually continuing to use an FS that's already that broken is kinda bad; risks murdering user data |
| 15:41:24 | TheSeven | anyway, what should we do in that case? |
| 15:41:26 | Torne | panic |
| 15:41:33 | CIA-70 | New commit by kugel (r29464): Backport r29463: Fix returning to wps from a plugin. |
| 15:41:35 | Torne | or similar. |
| 15:41:40 | Torne | what do we do if the BPB is garbage? :) |
| 15:41:50 | TheSeven | do we have some kind of disk mode on all targets? |
| 15:41:56 | Torne | er |
| 15:41:59 | Torne | i hope so :) |
| 15:42:02 | TheSeven | i'm not sure |
| 15:42:20 | TheSeven | if there's bpb trouble, we just fail to mount => empty file browser, but USB MSC works |
| 15:42:28 | Torne | Right |
| 15:42:34 | CIA-70 | r29463 build result: All green |
| 15:42:41 | Torne | maybe we just need an equivalent of errors=remount-ro |
| 15:42:42 | Torne | or similar |
| 15:42:47 | Torne | or unmount |
| 15:42:49 | TheSeven | so we should maybe just surprise-remove the volume? |
| 15:42:58 | Torne | Maybe |
| 15:43:03 | Torne | Either that or just surprise-writeprotect it |
| 15:43:19 | TheSeven | the latter may badly confuse users |
| 15:43:21 | Torne | yes. |
| 15:43:25 | Torne | btu yeah, you're right |
| 15:43:27 | TheSeven | as the reason for it isn't immediately apparent |
| 15:43:29 | Torne | it would be nicer to unmount it |
| 15:43:34 | Torne | rather than panicing |
| 15:44:02 | Torne | do we actualyl *have* a way to unmount it on targets that don't have removable volumes, though? |
| 15:44:13 | TheSeven | we can just behave as if it was never mounted |
| 15:44:28 | TheSeven | i.e. trash some fat global vars enough to make it refuse to access anything |
| 15:44:32 | Torne | Ah, true |
| 15:44:33 | TheSeven | er, wait |
| 15:44:36 | Torne | Well, no |
| 15:44:37 | TheSeven | we can certainly unmount |
| 15:44:47 | TheSeven | USB MSC can do it, so we can do it as well :) |
| 15:44:56 | Torne | Doesn't USB MSC *not* in fact unmount the filesystem? |
| 15:45:10 | Torne | which has caused various dodgy bugs in the past? |
| 15:45:12 | kugel | it does since a while which exposed some bugs |
| 15:45:18 | Torne | ah right. |
| 15:45:22 | Torne | okay, well, we should do that then |
| 15:45:24 | TheSeven | those dodgy bugs were caused by open files/dirs surviving an unmount/remount |
| 15:45:38 | webguest377 | The Database thing on rockbox hasn't included all of the songs, only some |
| 15:45:39 | Torne | when do you remount it, though? |
| 15:45:45 | webguest377 | which option is it to get it to check the rest? |
| 15:45:48 | Torne | webguest377: your filesystem is trashed |
| 15:46:02 | Torne | webguest377: until you fix that there's no way to know if any problems you are having are caused by that or not |
| 15:46:20 | Torne | if it's usable for now then use it as best you can; reformat and put files on there anew when you have time. |
| 15:46:34 | TheSeven | webguest377: you can try choosing "initialize database" from the context menu of the main menu "database" entry, but doing that may well lock up your player |
| 15:47:08 | webguest377 | I'll just use the folder view for now then |
| 15:47:10 | webguest377 | thanks again |
| 15:47:12 | Torne | TheSeven: the slight issue with just unmounting is when do you remount |
| 15:47:17 | sideral | Torne, kugel: We still don't unmount cleanly on USB connect, though. It's more like an eject-like flush. See FS #11883 for a real unmount feature. |
| 15:47:34 | TheSeven | Torne: after USB unplug or reboot |
| 15:47:40 | sideral | Torne: We remount as soon as the USB connection unplugs |
| 15:47:43 | Torne | TheSeven: but how do you know whether you fixed anything? |
| 15:47:56 | Torne | TheSeven: on a "real" computer/fs you would markt he FS dirty/unmountable on error |
| 15:47:59 | | Quit webguest377 (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 15:48:03 | Torne | and then it would not be possible to mount it again without running fsck |
| 15:48:05 | TheSeven | we can't know, so if we hit the problem again we'll unmount again |
| 15:48:18 | TheSeven | and we might flag the volume as bad once we spot some trouble to make windows fsck it |
| 15:48:18 | Torne | but if the problem is just in some file somewhere it may not happen again even though the FS is still broken |
| 15:49:06 | TheSeven | do we currently respect that dirty flag and fail to mount if it's set? I don't think so? |
| 15:49:12 | Torne | i don't think so either. |
| 15:49:28 | TheSeven | maybe we should do that as well, and let the user choose to optionally mount it read only |
| 15:49:52 | TheSeven | hm, talking about handling errors more gracefully: we should maybe add some kind of "safe mode", which skips everything not absolutely neccessary during boot, especially database startup |
| 15:50:11 | TheSeven | i'm having some trouble with database problems semi-bricking ipod classics |
| 15:50:27 | TheSeven | (we don't have disk mode there yet) |
| 15:51:15 | Torne | We should probably respect the error-on-last-mount bit |
| 15:51:21 | Torne | and set it in this case too |
| 15:51:37 | TheSeven | you know there are two of them? one for FS corruption and one for IO errors? |
| 15:51:46 | Torne | yes |
| 15:51:49 | Torne | er, no |
| 15:51:58 | | Quit Stephenc__ (Quit: AndroIRC) |
| 15:51:59 | Torne | there are two, one for cleanly-unmounted and one for errors |
| 15:52:17 | Torne | neither strictly implies FS corruption |
| 15:52:35 | TheSeven | dang, so we can only flag it as unclean-unmounted if we hit corruption? |
| 15:52:49 | Torne | hm? |
| 15:52:53 | TheSeven | the second bit will make windows do a surface scan, which we probably don't want to do |
| 15:53:18 | Torne | The expectation is that you set it as uncleanly unmounted at mount time |
| 15:53:21 | Torne | and then set it back at unmount |
| 15:53:28 | Torne | and then windwos will nag you to chkdsk |
| 15:53:58 | Torne | If we started doing that (and/or respecting that) then I expect a large uptick in support requests |
| 15:54:10 | Torne | for all the people who menu+select to reboot their ipods |
| 15:54:13 | Torne | :) |
| 15:54:27 | TheSeven | Torne: we could do it a bit more lazily like windows |
| 15:54:37 | TheSeven | e.g. set it to mounted on writes and to unmounted on flushes |
| 15:54:46 | Torne | windows does that? |
| 15:54:49 | TheSeven | yep |
| 15:54:56 | Torne | that's really impressively wrong and dangerous |
| 15:55:00 | TheSeven | why? |
| 15:55:13 | Torne | because IO ordering barriers don't work on mortals' hardware |
| 15:55:16 | TheSeven | as long as you don't write anything, it's basically the same as if you never mounted it |
| 15:55:30 | Torne | Oh, it's okay to delay setting it until the *first* write |
| 15:55:50 | Torne | but you can't set it back whenever you think it's clean.. |
| 15:56:05 | TheSeven | windows does seem to flush the FAT and caches in then background and once it has completed that resets that bit |
| 15:56:22 | Torne | yah, but that's the part that's not really safe :) |
| 15:56:31 | TheSeven | yanking out a pendrive in most cases doesn't trigger that chkdsk nagging |
| 15:56:53 | * | Torne nods |
| 15:57:02 | Torne | I don't think other OSes will do that, though |
| 15:57:09 | Torne | because it really isn't safe :) |
| 15:57:14 | TheSeven | because of what? |
| 15:57:24 | TheSeven | i'd expect a drive to really flush its cache if i tell it to |
| 15:57:45 | Torne | okay so 1) there are loads of situtaions where telling it to do it doesn't do anything |
| 15:57:58 | Torne | e.g. lots of USB MSC enclosures don't bother to do anything with that SCSI command |
| 15:58:08 | Torne | 2) there are disks that just ignore it |
| 15:58:43 | TheSeven | Torne: if our disks would be doing that, wouldn't that mean that we would have data loss after powerdown regularly? |
| 15:59:23 | TheSeven | i think we should be able to find a way to do this safely |
| 15:59:53 | TheSeven | the very worst case solution would be to do a spindown, spinup, reset that flag, spindown |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:01 | Torne | well you can try, but in the general case it's impossible to actually do an IO completion barrier |
| 16:00:24 | Torne | becuase too much hardware jsut doesn't care |
| 16:00:46 | TheSeven | IIUC we disable write caching completely if the drive supports that |
| 16:01:07 | TheSeven | (which is ignored by at least some toshiba drives) |
| 16:01:13 | Torne | yes. it's ignored by quite a few :) |
| 16:01:47 | * | Torne shrugs |
| 16:01:49 | Torne | i'm just paranoid :) |
| 16:02:31 | TheSeven | anyway, doing this kind of thing is at least way better than what we currently do |
| 16:05:15 | TheSeven | so what would the plan be?` |
| 16:05:52 | TheSeven | 1. flag the volume mounted on the first write access |
| 16:06:07 | TheSeven | 2. flag the volume clean on unmount/sync (do we have a way to do that?) |
| 16:06:18 | TheSeven | of course only if it was clean before mounting it |
| 16:06:36 | TheSeven | 3. mount read-only and warn the user if it's flagged dirty? |
| 16:07:01 | TheSeven | 4. if we hit a serious problem, surprise-unmount it |
| 16:07:39 | Torne | 1/2/4 are good |
| 16:07:42 | Torne | i'm not too sure about 3 |
| 16:07:51 | TheSeven | well, we could at least splash at boot |
| 16:08:00 | Torne | well, okay, both 1/2 and 3 are likely to cause lots of user queries |
| 16:08:09 | Torne | because loads of people use their player in a way that's not actually safe :) |
| 16:08:22 | TheSeven | Torne: we currently don't ever fully sync unless we're shutting down, right? |
| 16:08:23 | Torne | and they *already* get surprised when windows complains occasionally |
| 16:08:34 | Torne | Er, I don't know but I'm guessing that's correct |
| 16:08:59 | TheSeven | it might be a good idea to sync at least the fat cache upon spindown |
| 16:09:21 | Torne | Probably. |
| 16:09:32 | Torne | Windows defaults to being very aggressive about writebacks on removable media |
| 16:09:43 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:09:48 | Torne | it still uses a write cache but it pretty much schedules all teh writebacks immediately |
| 16:09:48 | TheSeven | depends on how it's configured |
| 16:10:15 | Torne | yes, that's why i said defaults |
| 16:10:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:10:39 | TheSeven | in "performance-optimized" mode it's doing something somewhat sane |
| 16:11:14 | Torne | yes, but nobody ever uses that |
| 16:11:17 | TheSeven | (trying as hard as possible to get that thing synced in the background, and trying to reduce the risk of corruption by means of ordering) |
| 16:11:18 | Torne | because nobody knows where that option is :) |
| 16:11:42 | TheSeven | in safe removal mode, it's a bit too aggressive IMO |
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| 16:12:05 | TheSeven | why bother writing back the fat and directory clusters after every single file operation when copying whole directories? |
| 16:12:18 | Torne | i didn't say it was a good idea, but that's what it does :) |
| 16:12:34 | TheSeven | it's of course a good idea to keep the on-disk state consistent, but why not first write dozens of files to free space before allocating them? |
| 16:12:45 | Torne | there's always the way symbian does it. ;) |
| 16:12:59 | TheSeven | how does that one do it? |
| 16:13:30 | Zagor | TheSeven: because that requires more complex and thus error-prone code? |
| 16:13:44 | Torne | Symbian orders FAT writes such that the currently in progress operation can be rolled back or replayed given a linear time scan of the filesystem metadata at boot |
| 16:14:04 | | Nick some1 is now known as some1passisdogjl (~lem0n@ppp-56-134.98-62.inwind.it) |
| 16:14:18 | Torne | so if it detects unclean unmount it runs its mini equivalent of chkdsk, which is specifically looking only for the corruptions that can be caused by interruptions of its ordered FAT system |
| 16:14:20 | | Nick some1passisdogjl is now known as some1 (~lem0n@ppp-56-134.98-62.inwind.it) |
| 16:14:23 | | Nick some1 is now known as some1-dogjlp (~lem0n@ppp-56-134.98-62.inwind.it) |
| 16:14:24 | Torne | which is way faster than an actual fsck |
| 16:14:31 | sideral | Torne: Sounds like BSD FFS soft-updates for FAT |
| 16:14:33 | Torne | (though still slower than a real FS with a journal, of course) |
| 16:14:55 | Torne | more or less |
| 16:15:01 | Torne | it's not even particularly complicated to do it |
| 16:15:17 | Torne | it's kinda disappointing that no other OS tries :) |
| 16:15:40 | Torne | if it finds a kind of error it knows it can't create, or more than one error, it decides the FS is broken |
| 16:15:55 | Torne | presumably because someone mounted it with UMS and wrote to it with a less careful implementation |
| 16:16:33 | Torne | but yeah, it's quite fast generally, and uses very little ram |
| 16:16:40 | Torne | since it doesn't have to look for crosslinks or otehr expensive checks |
| 16:17:02 | TheSeven | checking for crosslinks isn't very expensive either |
| 16:17:17 | TheSeven | it just needs a cluster bitmap |
| 16:17:53 | sideral | BTW, I believe we mark the FS clean after closing every file we're written to (after the sync flush). I'm not sure what happens if we ever have more than one file open for writing. |
| 16:17:57 | | Nick some1-dogjlp is now known as TheLemonMan (~lem0n@ppp-56-134.98-62.inwind.it) |
| 16:18:14 | TheSeven | sideral: we don't even bother to mark it dirty in the first place |
| 16:18:49 | sideral | TheSeven: Sure? I thought I had seen initial writes to sector 1 after opening files for writing |
| 16:19:04 | TheSeven | sector 1 is FSINFO |
| 16:19:17 | TheSeven | so that's probably just updating free space information |
| 16:19:43 | sideral | I thought that was used to tell whether the fs was unmounted cleanly? |
| 16:20:16 | Torne | TheSeven: a cluster bitmap isn't constant-memory |
| 16:20:18 | sideral | when a write is in progress, the free-space info is set to an invalid value |
| 16:20:34 | Torne | sideral: no |
| 16:20:43 | Torne | the unclean bit is in the FAT |
| 16:20:47 | | Nick TheLemonMan is now known as some1_ (~lem0n@ppp-56-134.98-62.inwind.it) |
| 16:21:07 | Torne | in the entry for cluster 1 |
| 16:21:07 | sideral | Torne: ah OK, need to go back reading the docs |
| 16:21:38 | TheSeven | that kind of thing being a fat entry is just plain crazy |
| 16:21:45 | Torne | TheSeven: there was room there :) |
| 16:22:20 | Torne | fat entry 1 was never useful |
| 16:22:42 | TheSeven | i wonder who decided to offset the clusters by two, and why... |
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| 16:23:18 | sideral | TheSeven: probably an artifact of old floppy layouts, so that the first cluster starts at sector 1 or some such |
| 16:23:45 | Torne | TheSeven: it's because cluster 0 and 1 contain the root directory, no? |
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| 16:23:57 | Torne | on fat12/16 |
| 16:24:02 | TheSeven | nope, that isn't fixed either |
| 16:24:08 | Torne | it is on fat12/16 |
| 16:24:17 | TheSeven | no, the rootdir size is configured in the BPB |
| 16:24:28 | TheSeven | so it can be bigger than two sectors |
| 16:24:36 | Torne | er, the BPB was a later addition though |
| 16:24:41 | Torne | Classic FAT12 didn't have one |
| 16:24:45 | Torne | at all. |
| 16:24:45 | TheSeven | huh? |
| 16:25:03 | Torne | the first FAT entry was at the very start of the disk |
| 16:25:16 | Torne | you detected the media type (which kind of floppy) by reading it from cluster 0's FAT entry, i.e. the first byte |
| 16:25:18 | TheSeven | er, so there was not even a boot sector? |
| 16:25:44 | TheSeven | was that before BIOSes supported booting from non-ROM? |
| 16:25:57 | Torne | DOS 1.0 |
| 16:26:00 | Torne | 2.0 added the BPB |
| 16:26:10 | * | TheSeven probably wasn't even born yet at that time :) |
| 16:26:26 | Torne | so yeah. the original FAT12 layout was hardcoded based on media type |
| 16:26:34 | Torne | read first byte of volume (low byte of fat entry 0) to find media type |
| 16:26:37 | Torne | then you know how long the FAT is |
| 16:26:45 | Torne | and thus where cluster 0 starts |
| 16:26:49 | Torne | and clusters 0/1 are the rootdir. |
| 16:26:51 | Torne | all fixed |
| 16:27:06 | sideral | nice history lesson, thanks! |
| 16:27:12 | Torne | that's why FAT entry 0 still contains a copy of the media type value from the BPB :) |
| 16:27:56 | Torne | so yes, later versions of DOS can have a longer rootdir |
| 16:28:08 | Torne | in which case FAT entries 2-n are marked as reserved |
| 16:28:34 | Torne | but 0 and 1 are always at least the *start* of the rootdir until fat32 |
| 16:28:53 | TheSeven | that's not true either |
| 16:29:11 | TheSeven | on fat12/16 cluster 2 is the first data cluster, no matter what the rootdir size is |
| 16:29:24 | Torne | oh, right |
| 16:29:34 | Torne | meh :) |
| 16:30:20 | * | TheSeven wonders why fat32 wasn't designed from scratch and instead kept all those nasty artifacts |
| 16:30:23 | Torne | that's just for backward compatibility |
| 16:30:32 | Torne | with systems that assumed that the rootdir was always two clusters |
| 16:30:49 | Torne | TheSeven: becuase they suck |
| 16:34:45 | sideral | TheSeven: because it allows FS implementations to share more −− and MS to inflict more patents on you. Your choice :) |
| 16:35:06 | sideral | *share more code |
| 16:35:19 | amiconn | kugel: Yes, very. It's already quite inconvenient to shut down via the menu. Even more so if you have to click around further |
| 16:35:24 | | Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: free(me)) |
| 16:48:04 | kugel | dionoea: http://pastie.org/1617149 works with embedded aa |
| 16:50:01 | | Quit krazykit (Quit: awe yeeeeeee) |
| 16:52:58 | dionoea | kugel: neat :) |
| 16:53:39 | kugel | http://pastie.org/1617164 is a bit better |
| 16:54:03 | kugel | is mmap() preferable over malloc()+read()? |
| 16:54:49 | | Quit user890104 () |
| 16:55:58 | Torne | yes |
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| 16:58:31 | kugel | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1739296/malloc-vs-mmap-in-c suggests yes, even though malloc might call mmap if it wants to |
| 16:58:41 | kugel | Torne: ah thanks :) |
| 16:58:56 | linuxstb | kugel: Thanks for spotting that missed #if - please fix it if you can, otherwise I'll try and remember later... |
| 16:59:12 | Torne | er, malloc calling mmap there doesn't do the same thing at all |
| 16:59:33 | Torne | malloc may indeed mmap() an anonymous file to get a big chunk of memory but that's still anonymous memory the same as if you grew the heap |
| 16:59:51 | Torne | by mmap'ing the actual file you are mapping it file-backed so there's no actual memory allocated at all |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:01 | kugel | ah, I see :) |
| 17:00:39 | Torne | malloc does normally do that for large allcoations to avoid fragmenting the heap, just allocates them somewhere else in virtual ddress space isntead |
| 17:00:47 | Torne | but yeah. that will still take up RAM/swap |
| 17:00:55 | gevaerts | If it's a *big* file, you possibly want some madvise() magic too |
| 17:00:57 | Torne | if the pages actually get written to. |
| 17:01:14 | Torne | Well, you're only mapping the bit you need, right? |
| 17:01:30 | kugel | the patch only maps the albumart portion yes |
| 17:01:38 | Torne | right. |
| 17:04:07 | | Part Zagor |
| 17:04:27 | kugel | this approach can bring embedded aa to pictureflow also |
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| 17:08:44 | kugel | should I use the check filesize to avoid copying if the file is already there? |
| 17:09:48 | kugel | s/use the// |
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| 17:38:55 | Dr_Agasa | hello, i...guess this is useless as i see nothing on the site, but maybe you have fresh updates on the question |
| 17:39:32 | Dr_Agasa | has there been any news on the Nano 5G? |
| 17:40:35 | Dr_Agasa | today a friend told me about rockbox, and i really wanted to get rid of iTunes, but i found no support for 5G. |
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| 17:41:54 | gevaerts | I'm not aware of anyone actually having done real work on the nano 5G |
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| 17:43:29 | * | mshathlonxp for this reason bought nano 1G - guaranteed compability with rockbox :) |
| 17:44:25 | Dr_Agasa | oh. |
| 17:44:55 | Dr_Agasa | i bought a 5G without knowing...and now i'm stuck with iTunes. |
| 17:45:11 | Dr_Agasa | i'll check back in some time, guaranteed. sorry for the bother! |
| 17:45:43 | mshathlonxp | that should be some VERY LONG time |
| 17:45:46 | gevaerts | One reason why there's no progress yet is that everyone who really wants rockbox on it just checks back every few months |
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| 17:48:55 | Dr_Agasa | oh. is that so? then what should i do to make it better? i don't have any experience in this kind of programming |
| 17:49:30 | Dr_Agasa | but i'm happy to help |
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| 17:51:05 | gevaerts | Most ipod related early research goes on in #freemyipod |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:10:12 | mshathlonxp | since it's now a bit more quiet :) today here, I'll ask again - I have noticed a couple of glitches on my 1G nano with 3.8 - after turning record on and off, sound is lost until next restart, and I also managed to hang it on pictureflow - are these two glitches something new? |
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| 19:12:04 | Buschel | mshathlonxp: do you had this nano 1g issue with 3.7 as well? |
| 19:12:18 | Buschel | *have |
| 19:13:01 | mshathlonxp | with several days old "current version" yes, but I didn't tried to determine if that happens always |
| 19:15:49 | | Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 19:16:49 | Buschel | can you build on your own? |
| 19:16:56 | | Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.) |
| 19:18:42 | | Quit benedikt93 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:20:28 | mshathlonxp | what? |
| 19:20:51 | Buschel | can you compile rockbox from the sources? |
| 19:20:51 | | Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) |
| 19:21:06 | CIA-70 | New commit by dave (r29465): Missed #if change from r29462 - thanks to Thomas Martitz for spotting. |
| 19:21:07 | mshathlonxp | no |
| 19:21:12 | | Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 19:21:14 | mshathlonxp | why such question? |
| 19:21:33 | [Saint] | so you could potentially test patches? |
| 19:21:50 | | Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) |
| 19:21:52 | [Saint] | (without someone having to build them for you) |
| 19:25:16 | CIA-70 | r29465 build result: All green |
| 19:28:10 | Buschel | mshathlonxp: there was a change after 3.7 which is related to recording on the nano 1g. I could provide a patch for you to test. but you must compile this on your own... |
| 19:30:27 | CIA-70 | New commit by theseven (r29466): iPod Classic: Enable RGB LCD update assembler code |
| 19:32:33 | TheSeven | mpegplayer is like 102% realtime on ipod classic now |
| 19:33:06 | [Saint] | \o/ |
| 19:34:16 | CIA-70 | r29466 build result: All green |
| 19:34:46 | TheSeven | hm, but not for all scenes |
| 19:34:50 | TheSeven | sometimes it drops to 19fps |
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| 19:41:41 | bluebroth3r | pixelma: you're right −− I vaguely remember a discussion about the fi etc issue. |
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| 19:55:15 | TheSeven | dammit |
| 19:55:29 | TheSeven | LCD DMA isn't going to be easy with rockbox's display driver architecture |
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| 19:56:48 | TheSeven | either i do line-by-line scatter/gather DMA (with ~4KB of control structures that need to be set up), or I need to copy the area to be transferred to some temporary buffer |
| 19:57:45 | TheSeven | the latter would also mean that I don't need to block for DMA completion before returning |
| 19:58:04 | TheSeven | but that needs a whopping ~154KB of RAM |
| 19:58:21 | kugel | surely not a problem on 64MB |
| 19:58:46 | TheSeven | but that costs battery runtime! |
| 20:00 |
| 20:01:40 | sideral | Zagor, AlexP: Who's maintaining the official git repo at git://git.rockbox.org/rockbox? I think I found a way to perform surgery on it to include all branches (including the release branches) without breaking any existing commit IDs |
| 20:01:40 | TheSeven | and i kinda hate copying data using memcpy just to throw them at DMA afterwards |
| 20:01:40 | AlexP | sideral: That'll be Zagor |
| 20:01:40 | AlexP | (for his sins) :) |
| 20:02:00 | | Join dewdroid [0] (~dewdude@66.87.16.29) |
| 20:02:24 | dewdroid | Buschel: you awake? |
| 20:02:42 | TheSeven | I think the best solution would be doing the gather dma thing and making the LCD driver API DMA-aware |
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| 20:02:50 | | Join Sochiro [0] (~Sochiro@194.90.222.165) |
| 20:03:01 | TheSeven | e.g. make drawing code call a sync()-like function to regain control of the LCD buffer |
| 20:03:25 | Buschel | dewdroid: yep |
| 20:03:33 | * | kugel wants that all committers gain write access to the git mirror too |
| 20:03:37 | | Nick icarusfactor is now known as factor (~factor@75.108.68.114) |
| 20:03:52 | dewdroid | I did what you told me to on rockbox...compiled without have_ata_dma |
| 20:03:59 | dewdroid | Fixed ALL my problems |
| 20:04:12 | dewdroid | No more sound. Problems or random lockups |
| 20:04:39 | TheSeven | having sound was a problem? :P |
| 20:04:52 | dewdroid | Typo. I had sound issues |
| 20:04:58 | Buschel | hehe :) |
| 20:05:00 | dewdroid | Mobile device |
| 20:05:09 | AlexP | kugel: Is it technically a mirror at that point? |
| 20:05:32 | dewdroid | But...apparently it was all related even though I thought the sound thing wasn't. Its stable now....very stable. Thanks. |
| 20:05:42 | Buschel | then you are the second to claim that issues are gone when siwthcing ATA DMA off... though the second tester only used his target for a few hours |
| 20:05:43 | kugel | not sure, but I assume master would still kept in sync with svn |
| 20:05:58 | dewdroid | I've used it for about a week |
| 20:06:06 | dewdroid | Couple hours a day. :) |
| 20:06:11 | [Saint] | Buschel: this is interesting... |
| 20:06:28 | * | Buschel thinks we might consider switching ATA DMA off for 3.8.1 |
| 20:06:52 | dewdroid | Id usually have to reboot at some point because of lockup or the sound corruption generally if I skipped 5 or more songs very rapidly |
| 20:06:56 | [Saint] | Buschel: Remember that guy ages ago that swore DMA was messing up his Nano1G? |
| 20:07:08 | [Saint] | But, he seemed to be the only one? |
| 20:07:17 | Buschel | [Saint]: yes, but that was fixed with a patch |
| 20:07:33 | [Saint] | Oh was it? Ah...I didn't know that. |
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| 20:07:46 | Buschel | maraz and soap reported and reporduced those issues |
| 20:07:47 | [Saint] | I thought he was still running a custom build without DMA |
| 20:09:00 | dewdroid | Well..all I know is I commented it out, compiled and it's been rock solid since. |
| 20:09:25 | [Saint] | dewdroid: Did it ever work with? |
| 20:09:30 | [Saint] | Or did it never? |
| 20:09:37 | kugel | AlexP: perhaps there could also be a daemon which can dcommit for us |
| 20:09:48 | dewdroid | It worked with dma..but it was unstable |
| 20:09:49 | kugel | so we don't need git-svn anymore at all! |
| 20:10:07 | dewdroid | It'd randomly lock up or blast ear splitting static at me |
| 20:10:14 | [Saint] | dewdroid: what device is this? |
| 20:10:21 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:10:24 | dewdroid | If I skipped a bunch of tracks quickly..its lock up |
| 20:10:34 | dewdroid | Early 5th gen 30gb ipod video |
| 20:11:01 | AlexP | kugel: I can't say I'm too worried, but I think it should really be one or the other on the server |
| 20:11:07 | dewdroid | I've got to get back to work...ill be back in a few hours if anyone elsew |
| 20:11:16 | dewdroid | Err..needs more info from me |
| 20:11:27 | | Quit dewdroid (Quit: Bye) |
| 20:11:37 | kugel | AlexP: why? |
| 20:11:47 | [Saint] | kugel: I've found a couple of tracks that the DB picks up on my phone that must be internal sound effects or something, one in particular lists a time of 0 seconds, but if Rockbox tries to play it it will output wildly alternating static indefinitely. |
| 20:11:47 | AlexP | kugel: Just to avoid complexity |
| 20:12:19 | [Saint] | I shall try get them off the phone and upload them somewhere. |
| 20:12:39 | kugel | AlexP: I think it would be nice if we could have our branches on the mirror |
| 20:14:48 | kugel | or, perhaps not branches but or own repos (1 repo per dev, cloned from the mirror). currently the dev's git repos are on different hosting sites (if they're even publically available) |
| 20:15:03 | AlexP | mine isn't for sure |
| 20:15:23 | AlexP | And yeah, branches on the mirror would be nice, if they could be hooked back up to svn |
| 20:15:32 | AlexP | I just cloned from svn in the first place |
| 20:15:40 | AlexP | Takes much lonhger, but gives me everything |
| 20:17:06 | * | kugel would probably be annoyed by needing to cd into trunk/ first ;) |
| 20:17:20 | AlexP | no need, trunk is linked to master |
| 20:17:36 | kugel | oh cool |
| 20:17:37 | AlexP | then you do git checkout -b local_branch remote_branch |
| 20:17:49 | AlexP | and that local_branch is linked to the remote branch |
| 20:18:13 | AlexP | So I want to commit to 3.8, I do git checkout release_38, do me stuff then commit as normal |
| 20:18:26 | AlexP | git checkout master, and I'm back to committing to trunk |
| 20:19:40 | AlexP | That's the main reason I use git tbh - to get all the branches and things without needing several checkouts |
| 20:19:58 | AlexP | I don't use (or frankly undertand) the advanced stuff |
| 20:20:06 | AlexP | *understand |
| 20:20:23 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:20:31 | AlexP | Well, local branches for working in are nice |
| 20:20:45 | | Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) |
| 20:21:35 | mshathlonxp | Buschel just tried 3.7 - turned record two times and after that both times resuming playback still sound :) |
| 20:21:42 | kugel | yea, having one checkout was the initial reason for me too, but now I mostly love the headache-free merging between branches |
| 20:22:06 | sideral | AlexP: I've managed to upgrade my git clone of the "official" git repo with all the SVN branches |
| 20:22:09 | Buschel | mshathlonxp: ok. could you write a bug report in flyspray? |
| 20:22:15 | AlexP | sideral: oh, cool |
| 20:22:25 | AlexP | sideral: Maybe put it on the git wiki page? |
| 20:22:29 | mshathlonxp | yeah, I could done that :) |
| 20:22:30 | Buschel | mshathlonxp: this will help to get some attention |
| 20:22:36 | | Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 20:22:37 | mshathlonxp | I think so |
| 20:22:42 | AlexP | sideral: Quicker than clone svn I imagine, but more useful than just trunk |
| 20:23:11 | sideral | AlexP: It takes one hour. :) I'd rather fit the official git mirror with the branches first (before amending the wiki page) |
| 20:23:11 | Buschel | mshathlonxp: I think this issue was introduced with r28341 |
| 20:23:33 | AlexP | sideral: righto :) |
| 20:23:45 | kugel | sideral: tags also? |
| 20:23:51 | sideral | kugel: Yep |
| 20:24:02 | kugel | sounds nice |
| 20:24:19 | sideral | kugel: Want a patch for your .git/config that does it? |
| 20:24:41 | kugel | not sure if it takes an hour :) |
| 20:24:45 | kugel | but yea |
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| 20:27:10 | sideral | kugel: http://pastebin.com/z2yW5nXf −− it will apply with fuzz only. Be sure to make a backup of your repo before applying this patch and running "git svn fetch" |
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| 20:29:09 | sideral | kugel: It keeps the "remotes/git-svn" name for the trunk, rather than naming it trunk |
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| 20:29:50 | sideral | kugel: I wasn't adventurous enough to try it without keeping this name :) |
| 20:30:08 | | Join Sochiro [0] (~Sochiro@194.90.222.165) |
| 20:30:12 | sideral | kugel: (for fear of having all the commit IDs changed) |
| 20:30:46 | kugel | what significance has the name? |
| 20:31:07 | sideral | kugel: I wasn't sure whether it is hashed into the commit ID or not |
| 20:32:22 | sideral | kugel: It's the name of the ref into which "git svn fetch" fetches the trunk changes |
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| 20:34:08 | sideral | If you start from scratch with "git svn init −−stdlayout ...", the SVN trunk would be named "remotes/trunk" instead |
| 20:48:20 | | Quit Sochiro (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:50:37 | kugel | sideral: I doubt that it would break the commit ids |
| 20:51:08 | kugel | commit ids usually don't change with the branch they're committed on |
| 20:51:17 | kugel | (IIUC) |
| 20:51:41 | sideral | kugel: Sure they do. They hash in the complete branch history |
| 20:51:58 | Torne | Not the *name* |
| 20:52:04 | Torne | Only the contents of the tree |
| 20:52:05 | sideral | kugel: But normally the branches name is not relevant |
| 20:52:19 | sideral | I just wasn't sure whether git svn hashes in the name. |
| 20:52:43 | sideral | Because it does hash in the name of the SVN branch (as part of the commit message) |
| 20:53:02 | Torne | yah, but git branch names are just references to commits |
| 20:53:11 | Torne | it's a one way mapping, always |
| 20:53:17 | mshathlonxp | could that be considered as glitch, if I switch the language but english voice continues speak until reboot? |
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| 20:53:53 | sideral | kugel: You're very likely right. It's just a risk I didn't want to take :) |
| 20:55:08 | pixelma | mshathlonxp: I remember that *only* used to stop playback (audio) shortl. If it does what you say now, I'd call it a bug |
| 20:55:56 | | Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 20:59:28 | sideral | kugel: If you're sure, just change the fetch line to "fetch = trunk:refs/remotes/trunk" |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:08 | pixelma | mshathlonxp: does the new language you set not have a respective voice file with it? Not sure how that was or is handled, I only know of how things were if the new language had a different voice file too |
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| 21:04:26 | mshathlonxp | pixelma no it doesn't |
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| 21:09:18 | kugel | sideral: I'll try |
| 21:11:51 | TheSeven | Buschel: I'm currently looking into optimizing the ipod classic LCD driver |
| 21:12:11 | TheSeven | looking at your YUV blitting code, I've noticed some weirdnesses: |
| 21:12:27 | TheSeven | 1. you're saving a register that could just be thrown away |
| 21:12:39 | TheSeven | 2. how does that clamping code work? |
| 21:12:56 | TheSeven | 3. does that "clamping really needed?" check pay off? |
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| 21:14:33 | kugel | sideral: that gets all revisions, yea? |
| 21:14:47 | sideral | yep |
| 21:14:51 | sideral | on all branches |
| 21:15:07 | sideral | but the repo-size increase is negligible |
| 21:16:02 | kugel | sideral: I'm not sure if that's easily doable on the mirror |
| 21:16:53 | kugel | sideral: it gets all revisions, trunk too, here |
| 21:16:56 | sideral | kugel: the only problem I see is that new branches and tags have to be found and published |
| 21:17:14 | * | kugel shouldn't have changed the name, quite possibly |
| 21:17:26 | Buschel | TheSeven: that was a while ago... can you give more hints to 1)? the clamping limits a register to 31 (5 bits for red/blue) or 63 (6 bits for green). last time I checked the "clamping really needed" it was faster with it. |
| 21:17:46 | TheSeven | that surely depends on the content |
| 21:18:03 | TheSeven | if more than every second pixel needs clamping, the check will certainly perform worse |
| 21:18:32 | TheSeven | and also the branch will be predicted as "not taken", so if most pixels don't need clamping, that's sub-optimal |
| 21:18:42 | TheSeven | i've understood 2) now |
| 21:18:51 | TheSeven | regarding 1: it's LCD_BASE |
| 21:19:08 | TheSeven | doesn't seem to be used anywhere, but is restored between the two loops, and then immediately overwritten |
| 21:19:40 | sideral | kugel: sure? there are a lot of non-trunk revisions... |
| 21:19:50 | kugel | sideral: |
| 21:19:51 | kugel | yes |
| 21:20:02 | kugel | it started with r1 in fact |
| 21:21:39 | sideral | just interrupt it and change it back (or restart the process with your backup) |
| 21:21:52 | kugel | yea, did that already |
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| 21:27:44 | Buschel | TheSeven: you are right about LCD_BASE. this is more or less a result from the take over of the iPod Video asm. it will most likely not harm anything as this only wastes 1 dword in the stack + 1 ldr/str per call of yuv_blitting() |
| 21:28:03 | Buschel | (it is not optimal though :) ) |
| 21:30:15 | pamaury | Zagor: are you one to contact to have the fund "buy" a fuze+ ? |
| 21:30:27 | Zagor | yes |
| 21:30:44 | pamaury | I got one for 65€ |
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| 21:49:23 | thomasjfox | kugel: The rockbox main page lists Android as "unusable" port. How about promoting it to "unstable"? |
| 21:49:37 | kugel | we don't have current builds |
| 21:50:16 | thomasjfox | kugel: You mean daily builds or you don't distribute binary builds like f.e. once a month? |
| 21:50:34 | gevaerts | current!=daily |
| 21:50:35 | kugel | current builds, the one that are build with every single commit |
| 21:52:02 | thomasjfox | ok. But that doesn't make the port "unusable". If there's a somewhat recent package, it sounds more "unstable" to me. But that's just my opinion. |
| 21:52:25 | | Quit L-Strife89 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:53:39 | gevaerts | thomasjfox: "unusable", "unstable", and "stable" have somewhat specific (albeit sometimes rather vague) meanings in this context |
| 21:55:07 | thomasjfox | gevaerts: If an unknown-to-me software package marks itself as "unusable" and I just give it a quick look, I wouldn't continue to try it... |
| 21:55:25 | thomasjfox | So I guess the maemo port will be "unusable", too ;) |
| 21:56:15 | gevaerts | hm, apparenly TargetClassifications doesn't list "autobuilt" for any of them |
| 21:57:03 | TheSeven | but it makes a damn lot of sense for anything besides unusable |
| 21:57:22 | gevaerts | That's probably why it's not there :) |
| 21:57:57 | | Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:59:32 | gevaerts | rasher: you seem to have added "Buildable through the build system" there for stable. I'm a bit confused to be honest... |
| 21:59:59 | gevaerts | Isn't that a condition to be unusable even? |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:15 | Buschel | bertrik: did you see FS #11973? |
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| 22:00:35 | rasher | gevaerts: Buildserver system I guess |
| 22:01:09 | bertrik | Buschel, yes |
| 22:01:30 | Buschel | can you reproduce the issue? |
| 22:01:53 | bertrik | no, I don't have that player |
| 22:03:29 | linuxstb | gevaerts: Yes, I would agree - "unusable" = current/daily builds, "stable" = a release and current/daily builds. |
| 22:04:30 | linuxstb | Maybe s/unusable/testing/ ? (although I'm sure we've been through this debate before....) |
| 22:04:32 | gevaerts | linuxstb: s/unusable/unstable/? |
| 22:04:49 | gevaerts | And yes, we've been through it about seven times :) |
| 22:06:15 | Buschel | bertrik: I am not sure anymore if r28341 is the cause. |
| 22:06:17 | linuxstb | Well, now we have an active RSB... |
| 22:07:10 | bertrik | Buschel, yeah, I'd like to have a more narrow search range than "somewhere between 3.7 and 3.8" :) |
| 22:07:14 | | Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 22:07:20 | | Quit linuxguy3 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:07:22 | gevaerts | I know what my RSB-hat opinion on that would be :) |
| 22:07:23 | | Nick milk_ is now known as milk (~milk@94-193-93-226.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:07:50 | Buschel | bertrik: well, looking at the wm8975 driver was a good quick shot ;) |
| 22:08:16 | linuxstb | gevaerts: What? But I guess you have the right to refuse to answer that... |
| 22:08:27 | linuxstb | Although perhaps only if I ask you formally. |
| 22:08:47 | gevaerts | linuxstb: refer back to regular discussion |
| 22:09:02 | kugel | we'd need to drop half of the unusables if auto build was a requirement for it |
| 22:09:04 | gevaerts | I can't speak for the other four of course |
| 22:09:11 | kugel | but I think it should be a requirement for unstable |
| 22:09:36 | kugel | thomasjfox: random people not trying it in an early state is the idea behind it :) |
| 22:09:40 | linuxstb | kugel: Sorry, that's what I meant... |
| 22:09:56 | bertrik | Buschel, I think svn r28572 is suspect too |
| 22:10:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:10:50 | bertrik | it uses wmcodec_write in some places, this is a non-cached direct write to the codec (wm8975_write caches write data). |
| 22:11:12 | Buschel | bertrik: doesn't it make changes for nano 2g only? |
| 22:12:22 | gevaerts | hm, the SDL app doesn't build if one selects a bootloader build |
| 22:12:26 | bertrik | the #if stuff is weird in this file |
| 22:12:27 | Buschel | it = r28572 |
| 22:12:59 | bertrik | It has #ifndef IPOD_NANO2G inside an #ifdef IPOD_NANO2G for example |
| 22:13:28 | Buschel | yes, just saw it as well. could be removed... |
| 22:14:01 | linuxstb | gevaerts: Yes, I was wondering if we could limit that question to the actual applicable targets. Although that would mean maintaining the list... Although perhaps something like "targets=A B C" in each target's case section in the main switch would work. |
| 22:14:34 | thomasjfox | maemo and pandora port is now in the wiki |
| 22:14:34 | bertrik | And there are also wmcodec_write calls inside the non-ipodnano2g code |
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| 22:17:25 | | Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@p57B49EE2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:17:42 | kugel | thomasjfox: perhaps you can share your experience on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/PortingApplication too? I haven't updated it in a while |
| 22:20:11 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:20:55 | | Join linuxguy3 [0] (~timj@adsl-76-203-22-180.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:23:08 | Buschel | bertrik: isn't "wm8975_write_and(LOUTMIX1, ~7);" when calling "wm8975_write_or(LOUTMIX1, LOUTMIX1_LI2LO);" afterwards? wm8975_write_and() does not alter the buffered register. |
| 22:23:41 | Buschel | there is an "obsolete" missing in my post from above... :/ |
| 22:24:01 | Buschel | (guess where ;) ) |
| 22:24:51 | thomasjfox | kugel: The PortingApplication page is still up to date. Except for the threads stuff and maybe the part about the single application.h |
| 22:25:15 | thomasjfox | kugel: Can you update it? I wanted to spent my time testing the next SDL shutdown code... |
| 22:25:24 | thomasjfox | kugel: next = new ;) |
| 22:26:16 | bertrik | Buschel, I think it's very hard to know if the buffering/caching works correctly as intended with the current mix of calls to wm8975_write and wmcodec_write |
| 22:26:35 | kugel | I didn't mean to just update it, but perhaps add stuff I have forgotten. as you've also ported raaa your experience with it might valuable to be written down somewhere |
| 22:26:36 | bertrik | wm8975_write_and DOES alter the buffered register as far as I can see |
| 22:27:07 | Buschel | arg, my fault |
| 22:27:25 | | Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 22:29:04 | thomasjfox | kugel: It's pretty much in there, at least I couldn't come up with anything big missing |
| 22:29:54 | thomasjfox | kugel: Let's see what my subconsciousness comes up with the next days :) |
| 22:30:04 | kugel | okay :) |
| 22:31:25 | Buschel | bertrik: ok, now the failure is obvious. the register is set to 0x0 by default. audiohw_set_monitor() uses this to alter the register setting. in consequence LOUTMIX1_LD2LO is not set anymore |
| 22:31:31 | Buschel | = no sound |
| 22:33:02 | bertrik | hm, makes sense |
| 22:34:31 | thomasjfox | kugel: btw: the SDL audio output on the Pandora sucks. It clicks and pops every 15 minutes or so. Used it for some hours today... |
| 22:34:53 | thomasjfox | kugel: Have to check if that is also the case on a real x86 host |
| 22:36:34 | | Quit shai (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 22:42:02 | kugel | thomasjfox: do you really need that specific toolchain for pandora? |
| 22:42:17 | kugel | I imagine plain gcc/codesourcery also works? |
| 22:42:31 | Torne | yes, it's just arm-eabi |
| 22:42:41 | Torne | that's the point of eabi :) |
| 22:42:41 | thomasjfox | kugel: My first efforts used scratchbox, codesourcery crashed while compiling and the resulting binary was unstable |
| 22:43:13 | thomasjfox | kugel: I didn't get NEON support enabled in the codesourcery toolchain |
| 22:43:20 | kugel | Torne: the c library in use also matters, no? |
| 22:43:34 | thomasjfox | kugel: And the in use SDL library |
| 22:43:35 | kugel | thomasjfox: which version did you use? |
| 22:43:49 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng103.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 22:44:15 | thomasjfox | kugel: The new pandora SDK is based on arm-2010.09-50-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 |
| 22:44:28 | thomasjfox | kugel: I think it's the latest released one |
| 22:44:43 | kugel | and that doesnt work? |
| 22:45:19 | thomasjfox | kugel: Didn't get ARM asm code working and it triggered an internal ld assertion during linking |
| 22:45:21 | Torne | kugel: only a little bit, actually |
| 22:45:41 | Torne | kugel: the linux C ABI is pretty stable even between different C libraries, a lot of binaries will work fine even compiled for the "wrong" libc |
| 22:46:13 | Torne | since pretty much anything in POSIX is the same |
| 22:46:21 | kugel | but you need the proper crt0.o don't you? |
| 22:46:32 | Torne | not really :) |
| 22:46:35 | | Part Zagor |
| 22:46:40 | Torne | virtually everything that does is prescribed by EABI as well |
| 22:47:02 | Torne | it's not guaranteed to work, no, but it often does :) |
| 22:47:11 | kugel | I see |
| 22:47:13 | Buschel | bertrik: http://pastie.org/1618443 <- uses buffered register writes for he mixers |
| 22:47:44 | kugel | thomasjfox: you could try building your own toolchain with crosstools-ng for example |
| 22:48:19 | kugel | but I'm quite sure I successfully build rockbox using codesourcey (4.4.something IIRC)for an arm-eabi target |
| 22:48:36 | thomasjfox | kugel: Thanks, I already have a working toolchain ;) The Pandora people are currently in the process of building their own |
| 22:50:07 | kugel | thomasjfox: we rather build our own toolchain than depending on random downloads from the internet |
| 22:51:30 | thomasjfox | kugel: That might get harder and harder for RaaA because of host library dependencies |
| 22:51:38 | bertrik | Buschel, looks nice, but I can't test it personally |
| 22:52:19 | Buschel | that's my problem as well... :/ seems we need to provide a build (or find a teser here) |
| 22:52:24 | Torne | yes, this is not a viable strategy really for systems where you intend to link to lots of host libs |
| 22:52:28 | kugel | thomasjfox: true, therefore official downloads (e.g. in SDKs) are better. But I'm not sure about some threads in some forums |
| 22:53:34 | | Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ) |
| 22:53:41 | thomasjfox | kugel: That's the best currently available for the Pandora. Or I could readjust the code/wiki to scratchbox. Scratchbox lacks Pandora specific tools OTOH. |
| 22:54:15 | * | kugel can't understand the desire to use scratchbox |
| 22:55:06 | Buschel | anyone with a nano 1g present? |
| 22:55:35 | thomasjfox | kugel: Scratchbox is more official than some random link in a forum ;) |
| 22:55:45 | kugel | for pandora? |
| 22:56:00 | thomasjfox | Definately not |
| 22:56:17 | thomasjfox | Like I said, the official SDK is still in the works |
| 22:56:22 | [Saint] | Buschel: Yes, but it will be ~30 mins before I am near it. |
| 22:57:15 | kugel | thomasjfox: so it doesn't exist yet? |
| 22:57:17 | [Saint] | Buschel: What do you need me to do? |
| 22:57:29 | Buschel | [Saint]: could you try to reproduce FS #11973 (the described usecase should be always failing) and check whether the attached patch fixes it? |
| 22:57:42 | [Saint] | will do. |
| 22:58:03 | thomasjfox | kugel: Exactly. Everybody either uses the toolchain I linked or some other toolchain script which basically downloads the codesourcery toolchain |
| 22:58:11 | Buschel | great :) could you just post the result to the tracker? |
| 22:58:23 | [Saint] | Buschel: I will let you know after I've tested it, and I'll post the result to the tracker. |
| 22:58:29 | [Saint] | Oh, haha, yes. ;) |
| 22:58:47 | kugel | thomasjfox: and codesourcery doesn't work, right? |
| 22:59:05 | thomasjfox | kugel: At least not the lastest one. Didn't try an older one. |
| 22:59:24 | kugel | gevaerts: are pebbles still a valuable gsoc idea? |
| 22:59:49 | Torne | relocating loader kinda takes the place of that, no? |
| 22:59:54 | gevaerts | kugel: you mean "Multiple/Relocatable Plugins"? |
| 22:59:57 | kugel | relocateble / multiple plugins could be changed to relocatable and pebbbles or multiple plugins |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:00 | [Saint] | kugel: I'd say so. |
| 23:00:23 | Torne | well if you're going to write a relocating loader then the work is doing that prat |
| 23:00:26 | Torne | part, even |
| 23:00:32 | gevaerts | Once we have relocatable plugins, "pebbles" as in wps shiny is one day of work |
| 23:00:37 | Torne | there's no need for a different class of thing |
| 23:01:03 | Torne | yeah; it's easy to do, even now, it's just pointless because of hte single load restriction :) |
| 23:01:23 | | Join lixxus [0] (~Mehdi@94-193-44-17.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:01:32 | kugel | I meant to suggest that after relocation is implemented, pebbles could be an alternative second step instead of multiple plugins |
| 23:01:46 | Torne | but that's the same thing.. |
| 23:02:01 | Torne | the point of the pebble thing was trying to make a way to strip small chunks out on their own such that they wouldn' tneed relocation |
| 23:02:13 | kugel | multiple plugins has a new set of problems, such as multi tasking and the user interface |
| 23:02:13 | Torne | there's no need to do that if you can load more than one plugin |
| 23:02:22 | Torne | wha? |
| 23:02:38 | Buschel | are there any thoughts regarding switching off ATA DMA for PP? I am in favour of switching it off on Trunk and for a 3.8.1 as we have enough evidence now to suspect that it is causing sporadic lockups and static noise. |
| 23:02:46 | Torne | Buschel: we do? |
| 23:02:58 | gevaerts | kugel: I see "plugins" as the generic name for bits of code. I don't really care what they do :) |
| 23:02:59 | kugel | being able to load multiple plugins in theory doesn't mean the interface is ready for it |
| 23:03:00 | Buschel | I think so, yes. |
| 23:03:22 | Torne | isn't that , like, three people who all have the exact same model of ipod? |
| 23:03:30 | Torne | or have i missed something? |
| 23:03:45 | kugel | okay, then another idea that have come up before: sql-backed database? |
| 23:03:50 | Torne | (hasn't it been enabled since 3.7?) |
| 23:04:37 | Torne | anyway, i'm not objecting if you think hter'es good cause |
| 23:04:54 | gevaerts | kugel: I don't think that's feasible for low memory targets. Do we want to support multiple databases? |
| 23:04:58 | Torne | i just haven't personally noticed any problem except a couple of people with, er, nano1g? |
| 23:05:03 | Torne | or was it mini1g? |
| 23:05:04 | Torne | i forget |
| 23:05:08 | Buschel | no, different models. it was reported for h10, ipod video, ipod nano 1g, ipod mini 1g |
| 23:05:21 | Torne | video? really? |
| 23:05:23 | Buschel | (not sure about ipod color) |
| 23:05:25 | kugel | gevaerts: perhaps the normal one native targets, sql on raaa? |
| 23:05:40 | kugel | with a unified api, that is |
| 23:05:50 | Torne | kugel: a better approach would probably be not actually sql |
| 23:05:50 | | Part mayanks43 |
| 23:05:50 | Buschel | Torne: yes, I had this a few times as well on my iPod Video |
| 23:06:03 | Torne | but just to write a new database that wasn't based on fixed queries |
| 23:06:12 | Torne | you don't need any of what sql is to do that |
| 23:06:25 | kugel | fixed queries? |
| 23:06:43 | Torne | well currently the database has a fixed set of fields, with a fixed set of indexes |
| 23:06:49 | Torne | and can thus only do certain queries |
| 23:07:04 | kugel | you can create new queries in tagnave_custom |
| 23:07:10 | Torne | no.. |
| 23:07:14 | Buschel | Torne: the issues with ipod nano 1g were more severe and easier reproducible. those were also connected to ATA DMA. |
| 23:07:15 | Torne | those are all the same |
| 23:07:45 | kugel | okay, then what Torne proposes: a entire new database :) |
| 23:07:47 | Torne | hyou can do range matches on a small set of fixed indexes |
| 23:07:57 | Torne | and in combination they are not very efficient |
| 23:07:58 | Torne | that's it :) |
| 23:08:14 | Torne | It would be *less work* to replace it with sqlite or whatever |
| 23:08:35 | Torne | but we wouldn't actually gain any runtime benefit by doing that compraed to doing our own thing that was just more flexible than the current system, i don't think |
| 23:08:44 | Torne | and we would almost certainly lose a lot on binsize and ramsize :) |
| 23:08:48 | kugel | perhaps that's not a too bad proposal, since we have no real maintainer for the current db |
| 23:08:48 | gevaerts | "Redesign the database" might be a good idea, if it's properly specified. Just saying you don't like the current database isn't good enough :) |
| 23:09:08 | Torne | kugel: well, i was imagining just writing a new one from scratch |
| 23:09:38 | Torne | but yes, something that works a bit more like Datastore would be interesting |
| 23:09:49 | Torne | where you generate the set of indexes/etc based on the actual query plans you have |
| 23:10:00 | kugel | gevaerts: it's not very flexible, it's unmaintained, and certainly somewhat buggy. is that enough? |
| 23:10:00 | Torne | i.e. you use tagnavi to decide what indexes you actually need |
| 23:10:10 | Torne | and create exactly those indexes required by the set of queries in the menu |
| 23:10:15 | gevaerts | kugel: not anywhere near it :) |
| 23:10:24 | * | Buschel needs some sleep now |
| 23:10:31 | | Quit milk (Quit: baaaiiii) |
| 23:10:34 | Buschel | see you in a few days |
| 23:10:40 | | Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]) |
| 23:11:10 | kugel | I don't have enough knowledge about databases to define specific goals I'm afraid |
| 23:11:21 | gevaerts | kugel: if you grab what Torne just said and format it properly, you might get somewhere |
| 23:11:38 | kugel | gevaerts: I don't understand what he said :P |
| 23:12:52 | Torne | Well, bette than inferring owuld be just specifying |
| 23:13:07 | * | kugel doesn't has much ideas apart from "refactoring/cleaning up area X" |
| 23:13:09 | Torne | basically: just have tagnavi.config specify what metadata fields should be indexed and in what forms |
| 23:13:46 | kugel | Torne: but then changes to it would need to rebuild the db? |
| 23:13:48 | Torne | Yes |
| 23:13:53 | Torne | I think htat's not unreasonable |
| 23:14:12 | Torne | It's a tradeoff between flexibility and complexity/codesize/ramsize |
| 23:14:20 | Torne | It would mean you could mak ehte db *smaller* |
| 23:14:25 | Torne | e.g. i never use the "year" field |
| 23:14:29 | Torne | so i could just not have that index at all |
| 23:14:33 | Torne | and then load to ram would take less ram |
| 23:15:03 | Torne | the most frequent thing i see complaining abut the database is you can't get a list of all the songs by a given artist sorted by album/trackno |
| 23:15:07 | Torne | or similar queries |
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| 23:15:28 | kugel | what do you mean with "in what form". what other form than strings (and some numeric) can there be? |
| 23:15:45 | Torne | hm? in the form of indexes that cover multiple fields |
| 23:15:53 | Torne | or indexes which have multiple entries per track |
| 23:15:55 | | Part lixxus |
| 23:16:17 | kugel | indexing combination of fields? |
| 23:16:24 | Torne | so a lot of people would probably want an index on (albumartist, album) |
| 23:16:50 | Torne | because then you could display all tracks by a given artist, grouped by album |
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| 23:18:19 | Torne | this is the kind of thing that a DBMS can generate/store/use automatically based on a query planner |
| 23:18:30 | Torne | but you can just have them specified manually upfront as well |
| 23:18:30 | Torne | (w |
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| 23:21:28 | Torne | (i am not a db expert) :) |
| 23:21:35 | Torne | (neither our db nor databases in general) |
| 23:25:39 | kugel | Torne: perhaps you can add your ideas to the page? :) |
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| 23:26:17 | Torne | i think i'd have to work out how our current db works first to actually be sure that my beliefs about why it doesn't do certain things are accurate |
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| 23:28:21 | kugel | if we add this idea, IMO, it should be a pc app at first, then ported over to rockbox, so we have a useful database tool (possibly portable for other software) from the start |
| 23:32:01 | kugel | another idea: re-factoring our kernel so that we can possibly run on top of a completely different kernel. I'm not entirely happy that we still need to implement our own kernel primitives and userland threading library on RaaA |
| 23:33:13 | pixelma | hmm, database... wasn't there also talk about refactoring the bookmark function? |
| 23:33:17 | kugel | the constant HZ mess too |
| 23:33:57 | kugel | pixelma: ah yes, remaking bookmarks (and/or playlist code) to properly support the database would also be nice |
| 23:34:09 | | Quit linuxguy3 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 23:34:58 | kugel | and another idea: we have talked about it today already. Native widgets on android? I'm quite unlikely to do it any time soon |
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| 23:48:19 | thomasjfox | kugel: RaaA doesn't have a "power" thread. Is there a generic thread in rockbox that could call my new handle_sleep_timer() function? |
| 23:49:02 | | Quit linuxguy3 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:49:23 | kugel | thomasjfox: no, but you could cleanup the power thread so that we can use it on RaaA :) |
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| 23:49:49 | kugel | you could just spawn a new thread too |
| 23:50:09 | thomasjfox | kugel: Cleanup means = Adding lots of ifdefs... |
| 23:50:19 | kugel | huh? |
| 23:50:41 | kugel | not on my idea of cleanup :) |
| 23:50:49 | thomasjfox | ;) |
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| 23:54:08 | kugel | thomasjfox: I had a look, but it's a huge mess |
| 23:54:51 | thomasjfox | kugel: I already factored out the sleep timer code and moved it down in the file. So RaaA can access it, too. |
| 23:56:04 | kugel | the power thread should be a proper thread, with a event queue |
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