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#rockbox log for 2011-03-05

00:00:22foguswait, it says how to boot the original firmware in the manual?
00:00:34Torneof course..
00:00:51Torneit has the ability to dual boot because of our bootloader
00:00:56Torneso, it's in the manual
00:01:04foguswhich manual? my clip manual?
00:01:09Torneno, the rockbox manual
00:01:12fogusoh, hah
00:01:56fogusis it a clip+ specific manual? is it on the wiki?
00:02:17Torneyou were linked to it just a few lines ago
00:02:31fogusahh, yes.
00:02:41 Join factor [0] (~factor@
00:02:48pixelmabrowse around from the link I pasted earlier, in general:
00:06:00fogusit works!
00:06:01fogusthanks for the links
00:09:41 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:13:06nirvi see 3.8 adds some FM work for ipod 2g
00:13:24nirvwhat about adding support for Monster iCarPlay Wireless 200 (FM transmitter) for ipog 5g (Video)?
00:14:51 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
00:19:19 Join [AndrewR] [0] (
00:21:38nirvi'm going to go try the Monster iCarPlay Wireless 200 on 3.8 but I doubt it's been fixed
00:21:48nirvI think it's time for me to learn how to program
00:23:25[AndrewR]hey all I made a video demoing the rockbox workout app I made
00:29:25nirvandrew, was it you that called me or some other guy before?
00:30:08[AndrewR]called you? like on the phone?
00:30:17nirvi think you were too afraid to. you talk really slow in the video and you seem young. i wonder how slow you're going to be when you're all grandpa'd out
00:30:17[AndrewR]I haven't called anyone, but I have been in here a few times
00:31:13nirvyou've got those vacuous eyes.mp3
00:31:33nirvthere was a recent study: the quicker you walk, the higher chance of you living longer
00:31:44nirvyou can hear the doppler effect when i pass people, dude.
00:32:02*gevaerts points to the topic
00:32:05froggymanWhen trying to compile something I get this error:
00:32:50[AndrewR]Yep, all the ladies tell me I have varuous eyes :D
00:32:57nirvi want to talk about the FM transmitter for the ipod 5g video and Rockbox but grandpa jones over here is posting videos of him grandpaing out
00:33:22gevaertsfroggyman: missing lang.h often means an unclean build directory
00:33:36sideralAndrewR: congrats to your nice app
00:34:37nirvwas that your boyfriend holding the camera?
00:34:39[AndrewR]thanks. hopefully someone will find it useful
00:34:49gevaertsnirv: please stop it
00:35:09nirvgevaerts, if i had a dick this is where i'd tell you to suck it
00:35:24Mode"#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:35:28nirvflush time
00:35:41nirvflush me you goddamned panda fucker
00:35:52froggymangevaerts, Okay. I'll clean that out
00:35:52Mode"#rockbox +q *!" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:36:32froggymangevaerts, Yep. that seems to have done the trick
00:36:58gevaertsnirv: I'll voice you again in ten minutes. Please use that time to think
00:38:00 Part nirv
00:38:40ender|gevaerts: you're way too nice
00:38:48gevaertsender|: tradition
00:39:10*ender| 'd probably look up that command that makes user leave the channel
00:41:02ender|(it's very effective against trolls, since most don't realize why the channel window suddenly closed)
00:41:23gevaertsender|: I didn't do that
00:41:33gevaertsI only set +q
00:41:36ender|i know
00:41:49gevaertsOh, I see
00:42:39froggymanIs anyone familiar with the pandora build target?
00:42:47froggymans/anyone/anyone here
00:43:26 Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.)
00:43:36Mode"#rockbox -q *!" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:43:45Mode"#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:48:10 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.)
00:48:39 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
00:48:41deeiceFroggyman: I'm also sorta waiting for some pandora experts. I want to see if we can use common SDL_PAD handlers in the plugins.
00:49:45froggymandeeice, Are you the dev that added the pandora as a build target?
00:50:20gevaertsfroggyman: I think that was thomasjfox
00:50:28deeiceno. I'm a complete amateur working on a zipit port.
00:50:57froggymangevaerts, Okay. I'll have to ask him about it then
00:51:35deeiceAnybody know what timezone the pandora folks are in?
00:52:04 Quit markun (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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00:54:17whitwowyou really take the wind out of my sails, gevaerts
00:54:19 Nick whitwow is now known as nirv (
00:54:25Mode"#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:54:32Mode"#rockbox +b *!" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:54:37Kick(#rockbox nirv :nirv) by gevaerts!~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
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00:55:19Mode"#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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01:08:18sdfsdfyou can't silence me fag
01:08:29sdfsdfyou've no authority over anything
01:08:31sdfsdfyou're just some fag
01:08:38sdfsdfSkype: nirvgorilla
01:08:42 Nick sdfsdf is now known as nirvbew (
01:09:49nirvbewFreenode, IRC−−BUSINESS WIRE−− March 4, 2011- nirv, a leading distributor of Ownage™ and Pawningࢮ, announced that gevart's mouth is no stranger to the cock.
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01:12:44Mode"#rockbox +o Torne" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:12:47Mode"#rockbox +b *!*dr3000@*" by Torne (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
01:12:47Kick(#rockbox DrugsforDummies :DrugsforDummies) by Torne!~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne
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01:14:33Mode"#rockbox +b *!*dr3000@*" by Torne (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
01:14:33WarnBanlist contains 18 bans!
01:14:40Torneyeah i know
01:15:05Mode"#rockbox -b *!" by Torne (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
01:15:17Mode"#rockbox -b *!*dr3000@*" by Torne (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
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01:58:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:34:11*[Saint] is concerned about the FS corruption and database malfunction issues that seem to be getting more frequently reported.
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03:43:14 Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:43:59jhMikeSit's still escalating?
03:45:22[Saint]Well, it's still being reported. :/
03:46:05[Saint]particularly database refusing to update.
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03:58:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:05:31[Saint]If anyone with a 480x800 RaaA target wants to have a play with: I would appreciate it.
04:05:49[Saint]It's my new candidate to replace the current SVN cabbie of the same resolution.
04:06:42[Saint]the theme is called Galaxy S I9000", but there's nothing target specific about it. Just happened to be the handset I was working on ;)
04:07:58 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
04:08:02[Saint](It still needs some work, namely an .sbs but the .wps is mostly finished barring the implementation of different/more popup windows for touchscreen controls)
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05:15:06delti see the mikmod/mikit plugin is now part of the stable (3.8) release. KICKASS!!!!
05:16:13 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
05:16:43[Saint]Hmmm...wasn't it in 3.7/.1 also?
05:16:58[Saint]Perhaps not, hmm.
05:19:48 Join Dreamxtreme [0] (~Dre@
05:19:49deltnope. or else i'd still be using it
05:20:35deltanyway, i wanted to ask why the midi plugin says i dont have a patchset, then i realized that i rm -r 'ed the .rockbox directory that contained it.
05:21:43deltcheck, working
05:23:00 Quit milk (Quit: baaaiiii)
05:27:26deltonly thing missing from the mikmod plugin is limiting number of simultaneous channels, and maybe mixing rate ....on my sansa e260 it plays like impulse tracker did on a pentium1 from the mid/late 90's!
05:28:47deltanyway thanks, rockbox uh... rocks the box :D
05:28:49 Part delt
05:47:32*jhMikeS wonders why tagtree wants to know about auto skips for swcodec but no hwcodec
05:57:20[Saint]Aw! the patch for absolute point graphic EQ is *horribly* out of sync. :/
05:57:54[Saint]It's an ass, as (on my handset at least) you can't even adjust the graphic EQ with the DPAD
05:58:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:14:25pixelmajhMikeS: auto skips?
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11:04:42JdGordon1Buschel: well no, not really.. it just happened that those vbuilds were carshing in the main menu for me
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11:19:33 Nick [Saint] is now known as S_a_i_n_t (S_a_i_n_t@
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11:42:37JdGordkugel: have u got a prebuilt 480*800 build?
11:42:37kugelnot a recent one I think
11:44:12JdGordCan u link me?
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11:51:51pixelmaJdGordon1: channel rules apply to everyone
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11:57:23pixelmaor probably JdGord
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13:46:04pamauryit's a shame I can't find any recovery mode on the fuze+, developping for it will be dangerous !
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13:50:50CIA-2New commit by bluebrother (r29515): Theme Editor: make cross compiling on OS X work. ...
13:54:55CIA-2r29515 build result: All green
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14:19:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:52:39DexpidDoes anyone have a recommendation for a music syncing program for rockbox on OSX?
14:54:18pamauryhum, the fuze+ firmware tries to prevent downgrade
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16:18:20AlexPThere are loads of reports about the database being broken in 3.8 on the forums
16:18:32AlexPDid anyone have a look what is up?
16:19:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:20:59gevaertsAlexP: yes and no
16:21:09gevaertshm, make that a no
16:21:12*gevaerts misremembered
16:22:06gevaertsSomeone had problems recently with a preinstalled track on a clip+, but removing that track also coincidentally freed up enough space for the database, so it might not have been responsible at all
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16:31:12u42pis it normal that RockboxUtility eats 100% cpu?
16:31:56CIA-2New commit by thomasjfox (r29516): Add svn:keywords to firmware/target/hosted source files
16:32:32u42pit hangs...
16:35:34CIA-2r29516 build result: All green
16:38:13CIA-2New commit by thomasjfox (r29517): Add rockbox copyright header with proper credits for kugel
16:41:21u42pnow it says [ERR] Original firmware unknown, please try an other version. Tested Clip+v1 versions are : 01.02.09, 01.02.13, 01.02.15
16:41:24CIA-2New commit by thomasjfox (r29518): Add proper svn:mime-type
16:41:35u42pi pointed it to the zip from the linked
16:41:39u42pwhich is 01.02.15
16:41:47kugelthomasjfox: ooops, thanks
16:41:53CIA-2r29517 build result: 2 errors, 0 warnings (thomasjfox committed)
16:41:54Lloreanu42p: You need to point it at the actual firmware file, not the zip
16:42:01CIA-2New commit by thomasjfox (r29519): Remove solved issue
16:42:02AlexPu42p: You need to point it to the .bin, as it says
16:42:14thomasjfoxkugel: Just doing some house keeping
16:42:22u42pah, that was easy to miss
16:42:28kugelI should've added that header before submitting
16:44:24u42pit installed successfully but the utility hangs again (window is gone but the shell is still "open"), can i safely quit that?
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16:44:50u42pnvm, it solved itself
16:45:21thomasjfoxkugel: Noone else noticed, so I won't tell if you won't tell!
16:45:32CIA-2r29518 build result: All green
16:46:09bluebrotheru42p: are you on a slow internet connection?
16:46:19u42pbluebrother: yeah, it is saturate
16:46:47bluebrotherwell, that could explains things. Rockbox Utility downloads a few information files from the rockbox server in the background
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16:57:47thomasjfoxAlexP: What about this in the source tree: find . -name "*.h" -or -name "*.c" -exec svn pset svn:keywords "Author Date Id Revision" \{\} \;
16:58:14AlexPI don't know :)
16:58:17thomasjfoxAlexP: svn touches only the files that need fixing
16:58:35AlexPI don't really have an opinion on it tbh
17:00:23thomasjfoxHmm. If you don't know, then I won't know either.
17:00:48AlexPI'm not the best one to ask tbh :)
17:01:12AlexPI think we sort of said that we should use them, but there wasn't a massive agreement
17:01:20AlexPStill, while we are they should be there I think
17:01:29thomasjfoxMost files use them and the wiki says it, too
17:01:40AlexPSo I'd say go ahead and fix them
17:02:12thomasjfoxThe "mass tagging" might change the order in some files from "Id Date" to "Date Id"
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17:02:27thomasjfoxI think we can live with that
17:02:45thomasjfoxlet me post the "svn diff" output
17:06:45thomasjfoxAlexP: Mass tagging output:
17:07:52kugelthomasjfox: the wiki is from pre-git times :)
17:08:02kugelI don't know the point of svn properties
17:08:50AlexPThe project still uses SVN though, so git is kind of irrelevant
17:08:51thomasjfoxAdding svn:mime-type for binary files is needed
17:09:27AlexPIf you think the properties are pointless then fine (I have no opinion), but it shouldn't just be because the tool you chose to use makes it hard
17:09:46thomasjfoxgit doesn't support setting svn properties at all...
17:10:06AlexPI know
17:10:13thomasjfoxmaybe ask on the mailinglist about it?
17:10:18AlexPIt has been
17:10:24AlexPAnd there was an argument
17:10:37thomasjfoxWhat was the result?
17:10:46AlexPWhat do you think :)
17:10:53kugelAlexP: I say I don't know the point, I didn't say there are pointless
17:11:09AlexPkugel: OK, but the rest of my point remains
17:11:21AlexPkugel: I have no idea if they have a use or nor
17:11:41thomasjfoxwho added them in the first place?
17:12:00AlexPthomasjfox: IIRC, there wasn't an overwhelming one - some people didn't want them (mainly as they use git :)), others did want them, most didn't say much
17:12:15AlexPIMO they should continue being used until there is a decision not to
17:12:36thomasjfoxlet's start the flame war on the mailinglist again ;)
17:13:06thomasjfoxI don't want to commit this right now as it would affect too much of the code base
17:13:27AlexPThis might be a good devcon thing
17:14:38thomasjfoxAlexP: The switch to git? ;)
17:14:46AlexPhaha :)
17:14:52AlexPI use git myself actually
17:15:15AlexPbut that would be rather contentious :)
17:16:28thomasjfoxStill might be a good thing for a real discussion
17:16:48thomasjfoxSo I'll do nothing for now
17:17:10AlexPyeah, it can of course go on the list
17:17:20AlexPWhich I don't think exists yet for this years
17:17:25AlexPNor does a location
17:20:28thomasjfoxI still have some packaging related files on disc I'd like to commit
17:20:36thomasjfoxI thought about packaging/pandora/*
17:20:45thomasjfoxAnd later on a packaging/rpm/rockbox.spec file
17:21:03thomasjfoxWould a "packaging" directory for distro specific files make sense?
17:22:13thomasjfoxmeego could share the same rpm .spec file I guess
17:29:31thomasjfoxAlexP: Any opinion on that?
17:29:56thomasjfoxkugel: Could the android files go into packaging/android or is it fixed at "/android"?
17:30:45thomasjfoxkugel: ahh, the /android/src stuff probably won't fit in packaging/
17:31:48AlexPthomasjfox: It sounds sensible, but I haven't really thought about it.
17:32:41thomasjfoxsvn supports moving files IIRC... been a while since I really used it
17:33:51kugelokay, rereading the the ML discussion again the consensus seemed to be to drop keywords and for eol-style=LF
17:34:41kugelgit-svn handles svn:executable, and for svn:mime-type we can put a few lines into our .subversion/config
17:35:32kugelit also came up to put a few notes onto UsingSVN/GitVersionControl which didn't happen
17:36:28kugelthomasjfox: /android has both source code in it and can be used as a build directory, so I'm not sure about packaging
17:37:32thomasjfoxkugel: Adding the "packaging" directory just for the pandora -looks- like overkill
17:37:58thomasjfoxkugel: I really would like to move the debian/ directory in there. Still sucks it's not possible :)
17:37:58kugelyou can built the android apk in any build folder actually
17:38:27thomasjfoxkugel: still packaging/ is not the correct dir for source code files
17:38:49thomasjfoxkugel: could the source code be splitted and moved to firmware/target/hosted/android?
17:38:57thomasjfox(if that makes any sense)
17:39:06kugelI wanted to keep the java parts separate
17:39:44thomasjfoxour you don't want them in firmware/ at all?
17:41:10kugelyes because object files get dropped into android/ if you use it as a build dir (and you need to if you use eclipse for editting the java parts)
17:41:42thomasjfoxmaybe "packaging" should be called "raaa"?
17:41:51thomasjfox"application" would be misleading with "apps"
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17:46:03thomasjfoxfroggyman: Ehrm, I just saw you built a .pnd for the pandora
17:46:09thomasjfoxfroggyman: I have a working one, too
17:46:37thomasjfoxfroggyman: I didn't spread it yet as the SDL audio part has issues. You'll notice if you use it for some hours
17:47:11AlexPkugel: Ah, so I did misremember :)
17:48:24 Quit krazykit` (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
17:48:24kugelthomasjfox: is pulseaudio available for pandora as a package or some sort?
17:48:53thomasjfoxkugel: Nope, pulseaudio is not supported (yet?)
17:49:14thomasjfoxkugel: Packaging is still a mess...
17:49:41thomasjfoxkugel: In terms of "if you do a openembedded dist-upgrade you have to reflash the firmware"
17:50:05thomasjfoxGuess what I did when I unpackaged it :o)
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17:50:39thomasjfoxStill I'd like to commit the my .pnd stuff
17:50:58thomasjfoxSo poeple don't reinvent the wheel / write broken packaging
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18:19:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:26:01CIA-2New commit by thomasjfox (r29520): RaaA: Add Pandora specific packaging files needed for .pnd creation ...
18:29:22CIA-2r29520 build result: All green
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18:48:12CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29521): Change the thread api a bit. ...
18:53:46CIA-2r29521 build result: All green
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19:05:31CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29522): Android: Support embedded albumart in the widget. ...
19:08:16*kugel is about to commit AA fonts
19:08:21jhMikeSare we just going to turn rockbox threads into pthreads? :\
19:10:18CIA-2r29522 build result: All green
19:10:50kugeljhMikeS: would be fine for me :P
19:11:43*jhMikeS doesn't want to obey some else's API though.
19:16:31kugelwell, don't worry. that's not going to happen as long as kernel.c knows so much of the internals of thread.c
19:20:14jhMikeSso much?
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19:35:29deeiceI did some searching, but didn't find anything solid. With all the rbaa development going on, is anyone working up an internet radio plugin?
19:36:57CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29523): Anti-Aliased Fonts support. ...
19:37:58*jhMikeS commences imparting more thread.c knowledge to kernel.c :P
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19:44:33kugelthat build takes long :(
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19:48:47CIA-2r29523 build result: 8 errors, 40 warnings (kugel committed)
19:49:11kugelright, I forget about the mr500
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19:56:54CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29524): Remove a few whitespaces to get under the magical string length of 509 (i.e. fix yellow)
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20:05:20kugelroolku's clients are acting up
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20:05:27kugelthe n* ones at least
20:07:45CIA-2r29524 build result: 8 errors, 2 warnings (kugel committed)
20:19:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:22:59Strife89"Build round completed after 644 seconds." Oh dear.
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20:57:59CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29525): Add lcd_alpha_bitmap_part suitable for vertical stride 16bit lcd. ...
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21:07:00jhMikeSif anything, I'd say thread.c has more knowledge of kernel.c than I'd like
21:08:17CIA-2r29525 build result: All green
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21:09:43CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29526): Add viewport clipping to lcd_alpha_bitmap_part as lcd_mono_bitmap_part also has.
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21:15:53freddybKugel: You're the man. Thanks.
21:16:20kugelthank you too!
21:17:15freddybYou're welcome.
21:20:09CIA-2r29526 build result: All green
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21:39:49jhMikeSis an AA font going to be the default for cabbie on color targets now?
21:43:33kugelI wouldn't mind
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21:47:30TorneI don't see why we couldn't, now that font_load isn't mindbogglingly slow for large fonts on ipodvideo :)
21:47:54CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29527): Android: Fix black display after unzipping
21:48:00Tornethough i still want to do dynamic fontbuffer sizing
21:48:05Tornewell, boottime
21:48:43Torne..though then that just makes me ponder being able to resize buffers without rebooting (but not without stopping playback)
21:49:09kugelcertainly possible
21:49:20kugelwe still have buflib-into-core as gsoc proposal
21:49:22jhMikeSjust stop playback, by grabbing the audio buffer and restart yes
21:49:32TornejhMikeS: You may have to move other buffers though
21:49:45Torneand if they contain internal pointers they would need some kind of callback to recreate the contents
21:50:08Tornenot intractable, tho
21:50:25jhMikeSof course. I suppose things need to be notified. It's terribly ad hoc right now.
21:50:39Torneright now it doesn't keep track of buffer_allocs at all
21:50:56Tornei've been pondering a gradual way to tweak that
21:51:05Tornebeing able to see hte usage might be interesting
21:51:12Torneespecially if you can see what the actual occupancy of each allocated buffer is
21:51:24Torneyou can see for some buffers atm, but all in seperate places and not most of them
21:51:33jhMikeSyou mean in general? playback itself should adjust though
21:51:55Torneyeah, i'm not talking about changing file buffering
21:52:01Tornejust the static allocations that lots of things take at boot
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21:52:26Tornecurrently i don't think it even stops you calling buffer_alloc while playback is going :)
21:52:40jhMikeSplayback master buffer contains other buffers like, PCM, MoB, etc.
21:53:02gevaertsTorne: in that case, playback will probably stop soon after :)
21:53:03Tornethere are a *lot* of buffer_allocs though
21:53:06Tornegevaerts: indeed :)
21:53:10Tornethere are loads of small ones
21:53:11jhMikeSright, whoever uses buffer_alloc has to ensure that
21:53:14Torneif you look around :)
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21:54:25Tornebut yeah, a compacting allocator would be interesting i think
21:54:35Tornea lot of those buffer allocations would actually be movable with not much effort
21:54:35jhMikeSI have looked around, but not for years and things were ok then, if still ad hoc. maybe that's what going on with playback.
21:54:40jhMikeS*in part
21:54:44 Quit mystica555 (Quit: Ekkusu Chatto)
21:55:03Tornesince a lot of them have no internal pointers and maybe only one external pointer
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21:55:26jhMikeSuh oh, malloc subtley tries to make its way in again :)
21:55:42Tornea compacting allocator would be fine, i think
21:56:09jhMikeSthere's one in the codec lib isn't there?
21:56:24Tornei dunno how buflib works to be honest ;)
21:56:49jhMikeSyo mean the MoB?
21:57:05CIA-2r29527 build result: All green
21:57:24Tornecodec_*alloc doesn't do any compacting, it just advances a free pointer
21:57:47 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:57:47kugelTorne: it's handle based and you need to get the data pointer from new after each yield
21:57:56Tornekugel: Oh, right.
21:57:59jhMikeSvorbis is using something more advanced
21:58:00TorneYeah, I wasn't thinking that
21:58:05Tornethough that is one way to do it.
21:58:41TorneI was thinking about just having buffers have a callback for when they are moved
21:58:41kugelTorne: IIRC, that is. But I also think there was a talk to change it to a callback system which is called when the buffer moves
21:58:49TorneYeah :)
21:59:02TorneFor a lot of things they may only have to update a couple of external pointer
21:59:03*kugel was faster :P
21:59:08Tornenot on my server! :)
21:59:14Tornethings which are complicated enough may just want to drop and reload their data
21:59:26Tornethis isn't something that would have to happen very often
21:59:35Torneso it probably doesn't matter if it is slightly expensive
21:59:39Tornewell, compared to memmove()
21:59:40jhMikeSthe audio buffering is strictly a queue, and handles are compacted by pushing them forward as far as possible, accounting for alignment and wrap restrictions
21:59:57TornejhMikeS: yah, I wasn't anticipating wanting to touch audio buffering
22:00:04TorneThat's a ring buffer and that works fine
22:00:20TorneIt's just things like wanting to be able to enlarge the font buffer, or whatever.
22:00:42TorneThings that only hapen on configuration changes
22:00:46Torneor after USB unplug
22:00:48Torneor similar.
22:00:53TorneNot things that happen during normal operation
22:01:46jhMikeSapps/codecs/lib/tlsf has a real allocator
22:02:26TorneYes, but real allocators suck for general use
22:02:37TorneWell, unless they are very smart
22:02:49TorneAnd very smart ones are quite big (check out the binsize for dlmalloc sometime)
22:03:21kugelIIUC tlsf isn't very smart since it's trimmed for real-time alloc
22:03:38Tornedlmalloc is optimised for efficient memory usage, i.e. fragmentation avoidance
22:03:48TorneBut the source is probably 10-15 times longer
22:03:53Torneand it's certainly not realtime :)
22:04:14Torneit's the basis of the malloc in most OS's C library
22:04:56TorneI just think we actually have sufficient info about what memory is used for in our system that we could do a decent compacting allocator without binsize going up much
22:05:04Torneand it'd avoid pretty much all "reboot to change setting" situations
22:05:24kugelafaik buflib compacts
22:05:38Tornewhere is it?
22:05:50kugelUnhelpful wrote it, he knows for sure
22:05:53Torneoh there
22:06:01kugelin the pluginlib, pf uses it for the slides
22:06:02TorneYeah that's using handles
22:06:13Tornewhich means you have to reacquire the pointer every time you yield
22:06:33TorneFor most buffers in core that's probably not the best strategy
22:06:33Strife89Are there any anti-aliased fonts in the font pack yet?
22:06:37*jhMikeS hates this yield/not yield reliance everywhere
22:06:37Tornebecause use is far more common than reallocation
22:07:21kugelStrife89: no
22:07:25TornejhMikeS: relying on things not yielding is a feature :)
22:07:35TorneWriting preemption-sfae code is way harder
22:07:40Torneand bigger
22:07:43Torneand slower :)
22:07:50kugelStrife89: and it's unlikely that aaf will ever be in the same font pack as mono fonts
22:08:08jhMikeSnot really, it creates complacent threading code and isn't much safer in practice
22:08:30TorneIt's not really about safety
22:08:47TorneIf you can get acceptable performance without preemption then it's basically guaranteed that cooperative multitasking code will be smaller and faster
22:08:52jhMikeSoh, it is. most the playback troubles come from the assumptions about it.
22:08:57Strife89kugel: Has anyone written anything on making one's own fonts?
22:09:14TornejhMikeS: well yes but people also make the same class of mistake in preemptable code..
22:09:23kugelStrife89: I updated CreateFonts
22:09:24Tornego see how much code isn't actually threadsafe in the world :)
22:09:35TorneI'm talking about code written by people who understand how to write safe code in either system
22:09:51jhMikeSI haven't had the experience that proper preemptible code really that much more complicated or harder to write
22:10:09TorneIt's not really harder
22:10:14TorneBut it is more complicated because you have to use locks :)
22:10:29TorneThe only reason to have preemption is if your latency is too bad without it
22:10:38TorneThroughput is worse and code is larger and more complex
22:10:39jhMikeSmeh, locks...sometimes.
22:10:45TorneAt best it's the same
22:10:48TorneYes, "sometimes"
22:10:58Torneand the same is true of cooperative: most things don't need to think about it
22:11:16Strife89kugel: If I knew how to invoke convttf I'd be fine from here on, but ... :/
22:11:22jhMikeSthat's one thing I definitely hate is the latency of task switching, but few task switch calls would be needed
22:11:33kugelStrife89: try convttf −−help
22:11:38jhMikeS*fewer would be needed with preemption
22:11:46*kugel adds an example
22:11:56TornejhMikeS: how do you figure that?
22:12:01Tornei'm pretty sure that's provably false :)
22:12:21Torneit's certainly not true in general
22:12:27jhMikeSTorne: any unexpected yield in the code (you don't know where they'll show up in deep calls) is essentially a preemption
22:12:33CIA-2New commit by bluebrother (r29528): Remove outdated and unmaintained wpseditor. ...
22:12:35Tornewhy do you think so many high performance network servers are not multithreaded? :)
22:12:42Strife89kugel: convttf is located where?
22:12:57TornejhMikeS: You *should* know
22:12:59jhMikeSTorne: Because, all of all those yield calls for one.
22:13:01Torneif you don't you are doing it wrong.
22:13:22Tornei've spent a long time writing multithreaded code ;)
22:13:27jhMikeSsecondly, things can be allowed to execute for extended periods
22:13:30Torneincluding the more fun case of lockless preemptible code
22:13:55Tornethat one is the one that's hard, but it's what you have to do to get high throughput and low latency
22:14:04jhMikeSlockess is fun, but alot of that won't work nicely here
22:14:06Strife89I updated my sources but convttf doesn't exist
22:14:29Torneyou'd be surprised, maybe :)
22:14:38TorneIt's unfortunately difficult on most of the processors we support :(
22:14:43Strife89Oh, fun. Only source code for it.
22:14:44jhMikeSit sucks without universal atomic primitives always available
22:14:46Torneits much easier on ARM11
22:15:09jhMikeSldrex, strex, yes
22:15:12Torneaanyway. time to go do stuff.
22:15:41*jhMikeS still barks loudly in favor of preemption
22:18:08kugelStrife89: it'll be compiled if you do a build (any build)
22:18:53kugelTorne: buflib could be converted to callback, right?
22:19:40Strife89kugel: And then invoke it from the folder I compiled in?
22:19:58kugelinvoke it from anywhere you like
22:19:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:21:14jhMikeSTorne: btw, noone's doing anything wrong, what yields or doesn't is just not easily accounted for at this point. the issue is deeper than that.
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22:22:02CIA-2r29528 build result: All green
22:27:41kugeldionoea: ping
22:32:30kugeldionoea: did you get anywhere with your playback issue?
22:33:04dionoeanope. didn't try anything yet
22:33:33dionoeai'll probably try tomorrow evening
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22:44:17jhMikeSTorne: don't you that is equivocating on scheduling latencies vs. contention latencies?
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23:14:21CIA-2New commit by kugel (r29529): Android: Add a nowplaying bar to the 3x3 widget
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23:24:08CIA-2r29529 build result: All green
23:26:43gevaertskugel: ping
23:27:03kugelgevaerts: pong
23:27:25gevaertskugel: I'm (finally!) properly looking at your gsoc mail
23:28:27gevaertsI'm not entirely sure about the first two, but the other three look good
23:28:31 Quit petur (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:28:50gevaertsThe first two may be good as well, but I'm not sure I understand the impact well enough
23:29:43kugelthey're not proposals as such, but ideas for discussion
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23:29:58gevaertsYes, I know, which is why I'm discussing them now :)
23:30:28gevaertsRedoing the database wouldn't be very compatible with fixing integration of other stuff with the database
23:33:13 Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
23:33:39saratogaamiconn: any chance you could run RMAA on your Clip+ with stock rockbox and with your patched build?
23:33:58saratogai've seen several other people complain about similar problems, so i suspect you may have a different hardware revision
23:34:03saratoga(then I do)
23:34:57gevaertsI actually positively like the bookmark and playlist database ones
23:35:18kugelgevaerts: well, they needn't be compatible
23:36:16kugelredoing the database was essentially Torne's idea. but one of the goal would be to get a maintainer for currently unmaintained code
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23:36:40gevaertskugel: I thought we volunteered pamaury for that? :)
23:37:56gevaertsThe thing is that I would feel really bad if we picked a proposal for redesigning the database, reject another proposal because it would need a more or less stable database API, and have the first one fail
23:37:59pamauryI don't want to maintain this horrible code !
23:38:56gevaertsWhile on the other hand whoever fixes bookmark/database interaction or playlist/database interaction may also accidentally end up fixing the database
23:39:28jhMikeScan we redesign playlists too?
23:40:21gevaertsOh, and the multi-select thing might be fun to have as well
23:40:49 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
23:41:42kugelgevaerts: I think it's not asked too much to ask the students to work together for the unlikely case that both are picked
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23:42:09gevaertskugel: to be honest, I think it is. What if one of them vanishes?
23:42:58kugelyou're pessimistic
23:44:04kugelJdGordon| also did a major skin engine rework during the development of the new parser and theme editor and they collaborated very well
23:44:30pamaurybut JdGordon| is a regular developper who knows the code well
23:44:44gevaertsYes, but JdGordon| has been there for a while
23:44:54gevaertsIt's not as if we never had a student disappear
23:45:10*jhMikeS thirds that point
23:46:40kugelwell, then chose one of those (or none). I'm not insisting that all that ideas end up in proposals on the wiki
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23:50:10*gevaerts is a bit hesitant
23:50:49gevaertsI know many people would like a new database, so I don't want to reject that idea...
23:51:00gevaertsYes, maybe just present them all and see what happens
23:52:54*AlexP doesn't care as long as he isn't forced to use it :)
23:54:14 Join freddyb [0] (
23:54:51gevaertshm, does anyone remember why we didn't keep USB host support on the ideas list last year?
23:56:55pamaurybecause no one has a player which has usb host ?
23:57:10*gevaerts has several!
23:57:14pamauryusb host would be really nice, but there are too few players with it :(
23:57:25 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
23:57:31freddybKugel: Would it be ok if I changed tagcache.c to follow soft link directories on the ui simulator?
23:57:32pamauryI want one ! :)
23:57:53kugelfreddyb: :?
23:58:44kugelgevaerts: there probably isn't a reason

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