#rockbox 2011-03-05

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#rockbox log for 2011-03-05

00:00:22	fogus	wait, it says how to boot the original firmware in the manual?
00:00:34	Torne	of course..
00:00:51	Torne	it has the ability to dual boot because of our bootloader
00:00:56	Torne	so, it's in the manual
00:01:04	fogus	which manual? my clip manual?
00:01:09	Torne	no, the rockbox manual
00:01:12	fogus	oh, hah
00:01:56	fogus	is it a clip+ specific manual? is it on the wiki?
00:02:17	Torne	you were linked to it just a few lines ago
00:02:31	fogus	ahh, yes.
00:02:41		Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114)
00:02:48	pixelma	browse around from the link I pasted earlier, in general: http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
00:06:00	fogus	it works!
00:06:01	fogus	thanks for the links
00:09:41		Quit soap (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:13:06	nirv	i see 3.8 adds some FM work for ipod 2g
00:13:24	nirv	what about adding support for Monster iCarPlay Wireless 200 (FM transmitter) for ipog 5g (Video)?
00:14:51		Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
00:19:19		Join [AndrewR] [0] (~andrewrot@d24-36-251-35.home1.cgocable.net)
00:19:32	[AndrewR]	Hello
00:21:18	nirv	hi
00:21:38	nirv	i'm going to go try the Monster iCarPlay Wireless 200 on 3.8 but I doubt it's been fixed
00:21:48	nirv	I think it's time for me to learn how to program
00:23:25	[AndrewR]	hey all I made a video demoing the rockbox workout app I made
00:23:30	[AndrewR]	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6l3fqJK93I
00:29:25	nirv	andrew, was it you that called me or some other guy before?
00:30:08	[AndrewR]	called you? like on the phone?
00:30:17	nirv	i think you were too afraid to. you talk really slow in the video and you seem young. i wonder how slow you're going to be when you're all grandpa'd out
00:30:17	[AndrewR]	I haven't called anyone, but I have been in here a few times
00:30:42	[AndrewR]	hahaha
00:31:13	nirv	you've got those vacuous eyes.mp3
00:31:33	nirv	there was a recent study: the quicker you walk, the higher chance of you living longer
00:31:44	nirv	you can hear the doppler effect when i pass people, dude.
00:32:02	*	gevaerts points to the topic
00:32:05	froggyman	When trying to compile something I get this error: http://pastebin.com/QZ0hinx2
00:32:50	[AndrewR]	Yep, all the ladies tell me I have varuous eyes :D
00:32:57	nirv	i want to talk about the FM transmitter for the ipod 5g video and Rockbox but grandpa jones over here is posting videos of him grandpaing out
00:33:22	gevaerts	froggyman: missing lang.h often means an unclean build directory
00:33:36	sideral	AndrewR: congrats to your nice app
00:34:37	nirv	was that your boyfriend holding the camera?
00:34:39	[AndrewR]	thanks. hopefully someone will find it useful
00:34:49	gevaerts	nirv: please stop it
00:35:09	nirv	gevaerts, if i had a dick this is where i'd tell you to suck it
00:35:24	Mode	"#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:35:28	nirv	flush time
00:35:41	nirv	flush me you goddamned panda fucker
00:35:52	froggyman	gevaerts, Okay. I'll clean that out
00:35:52	Mode	"#rockbox +q *!~dr3000@c-75-72-147-98.hsd1.mn.comcast.net" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:36:32	froggyman	gevaerts, Yep. that seems to have done the trick
00:36:58	gevaerts	nirv: I'll voice you again in ten minutes. Please use that time to think
00:38:00		Part nirv
00:38:40	ender\|	gevaerts: you're way too nice
00:38:48	gevaerts	ender\|: tradition
00:39:10	*	ender\| 'd probably look up that command that makes user leave the channel
00:41:02	ender\|	(it's very effective against trolls, since most don't realize why the channel window suddenly closed)
00:41:23	gevaerts	ender\|: I didn't do that
00:41:33	gevaerts	I only set +q
00:41:36	ender\|	i know
00:41:49	gevaerts	Oh, I see
00:42:39	froggyman	Is anyone familiar with the pandora build target?
00:42:47	froggyman	s/anyone/anyone here
00:43:26		Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.)
00:43:36	Mode	"#rockbox -q *!~dr3000@c-75-72-147-98.hsd1.mn.comcast.net" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:43:45	Mode	"#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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00:48:39		Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
00:48:41	deeice	Froggyman: I'm also sorta waiting for some pandora experts. I want to see if we can use common SDL_PAD handlers in the plugins.
00:49:45	froggyman	deeice, Are you the dev that added the pandora as a build target?
00:50:20	gevaerts	froggyman: I think that was thomasjfox
00:50:28	deeice	no. I'm a complete amateur working on a zipit port.
00:50:57	froggyman	gevaerts, Okay. I'll have to ask him about it then
00:51:35	deeice	Anybody know what timezone the pandora folks are in?
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00:54:17	whitwow	you really take the wind out of my sails, gevaerts
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00:54:25	Mode	"#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:54:32	Mode	"#rockbox +b *!~dr3000@c-75-72-147-98.hsd1.mn.comcast.net" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:54:37	Kick	(#rockbox nirv :nirv) by gevaerts!~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
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01:08:18	sdfsdf	you can't silence me fag
01:08:29	sdfsdf	you've no authority over anything
01:08:31	sdfsdf	you're just some fag
01:08:38	sdfsdf	Skype: nirvgorilla
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01:09:49	nirvbew	Freenode, IRC−−BUSINESS WIRE−− March 4, 2011- nirv, a leading distributor of Ownage™ and Pawningࢮ, announced that gevart's mouth is no stranger to the cock.
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01:12:44	Mode	"#rockbox +o Torne" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:12:47	Mode	"#rockbox +b !dr3000@*.hsd1.md.comcast.net" by Torne (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
01:12:47	Kick	(#rockbox DrugsforDummies :DrugsforDummies) by Torne!~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne
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01:14:33	Mode	"#rockbox +b !dr3000@*" by Torne (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
01:14:33	Warn	Banlist contains 18 bans!
01:14:40	Torne	yeah i know
01:15:05	Mode	"#rockbox -b *!~dr3000@c-75-72-147-98.hsd1.mn.comcast.net" by Torne (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
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03:34:11	*	[Saint] is concerned about the FS corruption and database malfunction issues that seem to be getting more frequently reported.
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03:43:59	jhMikeS	it's still escalating?
03:45:22	[Saint]	Well, it's still being reported. :/
03:46:05	[Saint]	particularly database refusing to update.
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04:00
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04:05:31	[Saint]	If anyone with a 480x800 RaaA target wants to have a play with: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-d9073dc6.html I would appreciate it.
04:05:49	[Saint]	It's my new candidate to replace the current SVN cabbie of the same resolution.
04:06:42	[Saint]	the theme is called Galaxy S I9000", but there's nothing target specific about it. Just happened to be the handset I was working on ;)
04:07:58		Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
04:08:02	[Saint]	(It still needs some work, namely an .sbs but the .wps is mostly finished barring the implementation of different/more popup windows for touchscreen controls)
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05:14:22	delt	Hello
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05:15:06	delt	i see the mikmod/mikit plugin is now part of the stable (3.8) release. KICKASS!!!!
05:16:13		Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
05:16:43	[Saint]	Hmmm...wasn't it in 3.7/.1 also?
05:16:58	[Saint]	Perhaps not, hmm.
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05:19:49	delt	nope. or else i'd still be using it
05:20:35	delt	anyway, i wanted to ask why the midi plugin says i dont have a patchset, then i realized that i rm -r 'ed the .rockbox directory that contained it.
05:21:43	delt	check, working
05:23:00		Quit milk (Quit: baaaiiii)
05:27:26	delt	only thing missing from the mikmod plugin is limiting number of simultaneous channels, and maybe mixing rate ....on my sansa e260 it plays like impulse tracker did on a pentium1 from the mid/late 90's!
05:28:47	delt	anyway thanks, rockbox uh... rocks the box :D
05:28:49		Part delt
05:47:32	*	jhMikeS wonders why tagtree wants to know about auto skips for swcodec but no hwcodec
05:57:20	[Saint]	Aw! the patch for absolute point graphic EQ is horribly out of sync. :/
05:57:54	[Saint]	It's an ass, as (on my handset at least) you can't even adjust the graphic EQ with the DPAD
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10:14:25	pixelma	jhMikeS: auto skips?
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11:04:42	JdGordon1	Buschel: well no, not really.. it just happened that those vbuilds were carshing in the main menu for me
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11:42:37	JdGord	kugel: have u got a prebuilt 480*800 build?
11:42:37	kugel	not a recent one I think
11:44:12	JdGord	Can u link me?
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11:51:51	pixelma	JdGordon1: channel rules apply to everyone
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11:57:23	pixelma	or probably JdGord
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13:46:04	pamaury	it's a shame I can't find any recovery mode on the fuze+, developping for it will be dangerous !
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13:50:50	CIA-2	New commit by bluebrother (r29515): Theme Editor: make cross compiling on OS X work. ...
13:54:55	CIA-2	r29515 build result: All green
14:00
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14:52:39	Dexpid	Does anyone have a recommendation for a music syncing program for rockbox on OSX?
14:54:18	pamaury	hum, the fuze+ firmware tries to prevent downgrade
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16:18:20	AlexP	There are loads of reports about the database being broken in 3.8 on the forums
16:18:32	AlexP	Did anyone have a look what is up?
16:19:50	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:20:59	gevaerts	AlexP: yes and no
16:21:09	gevaerts	hm, make that a no
16:21:12	*	gevaerts misremembered
16:22:06	gevaerts	Someone had problems recently with a preinstalled track on a clip+, but removing that track also coincidentally freed up enough space for the database, so it might not have been responsible at all
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16:31:12	u42p	is it normal that RockboxUtility eats 100% cpu?
16:31:56	CIA-2	New commit by thomasjfox (r29516): Add svn:keywords to firmware/target/hosted source files
16:32:32	u42p	it hangs...
16:32:52	u42p	http://pastebin.com/8iCTqn3Z
16:35:34	CIA-2	r29516 build result: All green
16:38:13	CIA-2	New commit by thomasjfox (r29517): Add rockbox copyright header with proper credits for kugel
16:41:21	u42p	now it says [ERR] Original firmware unknown, please try an other version. Tested Clip+v1 versions are : 01.02.09, 01.02.13, 01.02.15
16:41:24	CIA-2	New commit by thomasjfox (r29518): Add proper svn:mime-type
16:41:35	u42p	i pointed it to the zip from the linked http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Clip-Clip/Sansa-Clip-Firmware-Update-01-02-15/td-p/150227
16:41:39	u42p	which is 01.02.15
16:41:47	kugel	thomasjfox: ooops, thanks
16:41:53	CIA-2	r29517 build result: 2 errors, 0 warnings (thomasjfox committed)
16:41:54	Llorean	u42p: You need to point it at the actual firmware file, not the zip
16:42:01	CIA-2	New commit by thomasjfox (r29519): Remove solved issue
16:42:02	AlexP	u42p: You need to point it to the .bin, as it says
16:42:14	thomasjfox	kugel: Just doing some house keeping
16:42:22	u42p	ah, that was easy to miss
16:42:23	u42p	thanks!
16:42:28	kugel	I should've added that header before submitting
16:44:24	u42p	it installed successfully but the utility hangs again (window is gone but the shell is still "open"), can i safely quit that?
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16:44:50	u42p	nvm, it solved itself
16:45:21	thomasjfox	kugel: Noone else noticed, so I won't tell if you won't tell!
16:45:32	CIA-2	r29518 build result: All green
16:46:03	u42p	success!
16:46:09	bluebrother	u42p: are you on a slow internet connection?
16:46:19	u42p	bluebrother: yeah, it is saturate
16:46:47	bluebrother	well, that could explains things. Rockbox Utility downloads a few information files from the rockbox server in the background
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16:48:08	u42p	ok
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16:57:47	thomasjfox	AlexP: What about this in the source tree: find . -name ".h" -or -name ".c" -exec svn pset svn:keywords "Author Date Id Revision" \{\} \;
16:58:14	AlexP	I don't know :)
16:58:17	thomasjfox	AlexP: svn touches only the files that need fixing
16:58:35	AlexP	I don't really have an opinion on it tbh
17:00
17:00:23	thomasjfox	Hmm. If you don't know, then I won't know either.
17:00:48	AlexP	I'm not the best one to ask tbh :)
17:01:12	AlexP	I think we sort of said that we should use them, but there wasn't a massive agreement
17:01:20	AlexP	Still, while we are they should be there I think
17:01:29	thomasjfox	Most files use them and the wiki says it, too
17:01:40	AlexP	So I'd say go ahead and fix them
17:02:12	thomasjfox	The "mass tagging" might change the order in some files from "Id Date" to "Date Id"
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17:02:27	thomasjfox	I think we can live with that
17:02:45	thomasjfox	let me post the "svn diff" output
17:06:45	thomasjfox	AlexP: Mass tagging output: http://pastebin.com/TkhaHUKE
17:07:52	kugel	thomasjfox: the wiki is from pre-git times :)
17:08:02	kugel	I don't know the point of svn properties
17:08:50	AlexP	The project still uses SVN though, so git is kind of irrelevant
17:08:51	thomasjfox	Adding svn:mime-type for binary files is needed
17:09:27	AlexP	If you think the properties are pointless then fine (I have no opinion), but it shouldn't just be because the tool you chose to use makes it hard
17:09:46	thomasjfox	git doesn't support setting svn properties at all...
17:10:06	AlexP	I know
17:10:13	thomasjfox	maybe ask on the mailinglist about it?
17:10:18	AlexP	It has been
17:10:24	AlexP	And there was an argument
17:10:37	thomasjfox	What was the result?
17:10:46	AlexP	What do you think :)
17:10:53	kugel	AlexP: I say I don't know the point, I didn't say there are pointless
17:11:09	AlexP	kugel: OK, but the rest of my point remains
17:11:21	AlexP	kugel: I have no idea if they have a use or nor
17:11:23	AlexP	*not
17:11:41	thomasjfox	who added them in the first place?
17:12:00	AlexP	thomasjfox: IIRC, there wasn't an overwhelming one - some people didn't want them (mainly as they use git :)), others did want them, most didn't say much
17:12:15	AlexP	IMO they should continue being used until there is a decision not to
17:12:36	thomasjfox	let's start the flame war on the mailinglist again ;)
17:13:06	thomasjfox	I don't want to commit this right now as it would affect too much of the code base
17:13:27	AlexP	This might be a good devcon thing
17:14:38	thomasjfox	AlexP: The switch to git? ;)
17:14:46	AlexP	haha :)
17:14:52	AlexP	I use git myself actually
17:15:15	AlexP	but that would be rather contentious :)
17:16:28	thomasjfox	Still might be a good thing for a real discussion
17:16:48	thomasjfox	So I'll do nothing for now
17:17:10	AlexP	yeah, it can of course go on the list
17:17:20	AlexP	Which I don't think exists yet for this years
17:17:25	AlexP	Nor does a location
17:20:28	thomasjfox	I still have some packaging related files on disc I'd like to commit
17:20:36	thomasjfox	I thought about packaging/pandora/*
17:20:45	thomasjfox	And later on a packaging/rpm/rockbox.spec file
17:21:03	thomasjfox	Would a "packaging" directory for distro specific files make sense?
17:22:13	thomasjfox	meego could share the same rpm .spec file I guess
17:29:31	thomasjfox	AlexP: Any opinion on that?
17:29:56	thomasjfox	kugel: Could the android files go into packaging/android or is it fixed at "/android"?
17:30:45	thomasjfox	kugel: ahh, the /android/src stuff probably won't fit in packaging/
17:31:48	AlexP	thomasjfox: It sounds sensible, but I haven't really thought about it.
17:32:41	thomasjfox	svn supports moving files IIRC... been a while since I really used it
17:33:51	kugel	okay, rereading the the ML discussion again the consensus seemed to be to drop keywords and for eol-style=LF
17:34:41	kugel	git-svn handles svn:executable, and for svn:mime-type we can put a few lines into our .subversion/config
17:35:32	kugel	it also came up to put a few notes onto UsingSVN/GitVersionControl which didn't happen
17:36:28	kugel	thomasjfox: /android has both source code in it and can be used as a build directory, so I'm not sure about packaging
17:37:32	thomasjfox	kugel: Adding the "packaging" directory just for the pandora -looks- like overkill
17:37:58	thomasjfox	kugel: I really would like to move the debian/ directory in there. Still sucks it's not possible :)
17:37:58	kugel	you can built the android apk in any build folder actually
17:38:27	thomasjfox	kugel: still packaging/ is not the correct dir for source code files
17:38:49	thomasjfox	kugel: could the source code be splitted and moved to firmware/target/hosted/android?
17:38:57	thomasjfox	(if that makes any sense)
17:39:06	kugel	I wanted to keep the java parts separate
17:39:28	thomasjfox	firmware/target/hosted/android/java?
17:39:44	thomasjfox	our you don't want them in firmware/ at all?
17:41:10	kugel	yes because object files get dropped into android/ if you use it as a build dir (and you need to if you use eclipse for editting the java parts)
17:41:42	thomasjfox	maybe "packaging" should be called "raaa"?
17:41:51	thomasjfox	"application" would be misleading with "apps"
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17:46:03	thomasjfox	froggyman: Ehrm, I just saw you built a .pnd for the pandora
17:46:09	thomasjfox	froggyman: I have a working one, too
17:46:37	thomasjfox	froggyman: I didn't spread it yet as the SDL audio part has issues. You'll notice if you use it for some hours
17:47:11	AlexP	kugel: Ah, so I did misremember :)
17:48:24		Quit krazykit` (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
17:48:24	kugel	thomasjfox: is pulseaudio available for pandora as a package or some sort?
17:48:53	thomasjfox	kugel: Nope, pulseaudio is not supported (yet?)
17:49:14	thomasjfox	kugel: Packaging is still a mess...
17:49:41	thomasjfox	kugel: In terms of "if you do a openembedded dist-upgrade you have to reflash the firmware"
17:49:52	kugel	ugh
17:50:05	thomasjfox	Guess what I did when I unpackaged it :o)
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17:50:39	thomasjfox	Still I'd like to commit the my .pnd stuff
17:50:58	thomasjfox	So poeple don't reinvent the wheel / write broken packaging
18:00
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18:26:01	CIA-2	New commit by thomasjfox (r29520): RaaA: Add Pandora specific packaging files needed for .pnd creation ...
18:29:22	CIA-2	r29520 build result: All green
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18:48:12	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29521): Change the thread api a bit. ...
18:53:46	CIA-2	r29521 build result: All green
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19:00
19:05:09		Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection)
19:05:31	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29522): Android: Support embedded albumart in the widget. ...
19:08:16	*	kugel is about to commit AA fonts
19:08:21	jhMikeS	are we just going to turn rockbox threads into pthreads? :\
19:08:32	jhMikeS	:)
19:10:18	CIA-2	r29522 build result: All green
19:10:50	kugel	jhMikeS: would be fine for me :P
19:11:43	*	jhMikeS doesn't want to obey some else's API though.
19:16:31	kugel	well, don't worry. that's not going to happen as long as kernel.c knows so much of the internals of thread.c
19:20:14	jhMikeS	so much?
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19:35:29	deeice	I did some searching, but didn't find anything solid. With all the rbaa development going on, is anyone working up an internet radio plugin?
19:36:57	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29523): Anti-Aliased Fonts support. ...
19:37:58	*	jhMikeS commences imparting more thread.c knowledge to kernel.c :P
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19:44:33	kugel	that build takes long :(
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19:48:47	CIA-2	r29523 build result: 8 errors, 40 warnings (kugel committed)
19:49:11	kugel	right, I forget about the mr500
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19:56:54	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29524): Remove a few whitespaces to get under the magical string length of 509 (i.e. fix yellow)
20:00
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20:05:20	kugel	roolku's clients are acting up
20:05:20		Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
20:05:27	kugel	the n* ones at least
20:07:45	CIA-2	r29524 build result: 8 errors, 2 warnings (kugel committed)
20:19:58	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:22:59	Strife89	"Build round completed after 644 seconds." Oh dear.
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20:57:59	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29525): Add lcd_alpha_bitmap_part suitable for vertical stride 16bit lcd. ...
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21:07:00	jhMikeS	if anything, I'd say thread.c has more knowledge of kernel.c than I'd like
21:08:17	CIA-2	r29525 build result: All green
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21:09:43	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29526): Add viewport clipping to lcd_alpha_bitmap_part as lcd_mono_bitmap_part also has.
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21:15:53	freddyb	Kugel: You're the man. Thanks.
21:16:20	kugel	thank you too!
21:17:15	freddyb	You're welcome.
21:20:09	CIA-2	r29526 build result: All green
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21:39:49	jhMikeS	is an AA font going to be the default for cabbie on color targets now?
21:43:33	kugel	I wouldn't mind
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21:47:30	Torne	I don't see why we couldn't, now that font_load isn't mindbogglingly slow for large fonts on ipodvideo :)
21:47:54	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29527): Android: Fix black display after unzipping libmisc.so.
21:48:00	Torne	though i still want to do dynamic fontbuffer sizing
21:48:05	Torne	well, boottime
21:48:43	Torne	..though then that just makes me ponder being able to resize buffers without rebooting (but not without stopping playback)
21:49:09	kugel	certainly possible
21:49:20	kugel	we still have buflib-into-core as gsoc proposal
21:49:22	jhMikeS	just stop playback, by grabbing the audio buffer and restart yes
21:49:32	Torne	jhMikeS: You may have to move other buffers though
21:49:45	Torne	and if they contain internal pointers they would need some kind of callback to recreate the contents
21:50:08	Torne	not intractable, tho
21:50:25	jhMikeS	of course. I suppose things need to be notified. It's terribly ad hoc right now.
21:50:39	Torne	right now it doesn't keep track of buffer_allocs at all
21:50:56	Torne	i've been pondering a gradual way to tweak that
21:51:05	Torne	being able to see hte usage might be interesting
21:51:12	Torne	especially if you can see what the actual occupancy of each allocated buffer is
21:51:24	Torne	you can see for some buffers atm, but all in seperate places and not most of them
21:51:33	jhMikeS	you mean in general? playback itself should adjust though
21:51:55	Torne	yeah, i'm not talking about changing file buffering
21:52:01	Torne	just the static allocations that lots of things take at boot
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21:52:26	Torne	currently i don't think it even stops you calling buffer_alloc while playback is going :)
21:52:40	jhMikeS	playback master buffer contains other buffers like, PCM, MoB, etc.
21:52:55	Torne	yeah
21:53:02	gevaerts	Torne: in that case, playback will probably stop soon after :)
21:53:03	Torne	there are a lot of buffer_allocs though
21:53:06	Torne	gevaerts: indeed :)
21:53:10	Torne	there are loads of small ones
21:53:11	jhMikeS	right, whoever uses buffer_alloc has to ensure that
21:53:14	Torne	if you look around :)
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21:54:25	Torne	but yeah, a compacting allocator would be interesting i think
21:54:35	Torne	a lot of those buffer allocations would actually be movable with not much effort
21:54:35	jhMikeS	I have looked around, but not for years and things were ok then, if still ad hoc. maybe that's what going on with playback.
21:54:40	jhMikeS	*in part
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21:55:03	Torne	since a lot of them have no internal pointers and maybe only one external pointer
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21:55:26	jhMikeS	uh oh, malloc subtley tries to make its way in again :)
21:55:42	Torne	a compacting allocator would be fine, i think
21:56:09	jhMikeS	there's one in the codec lib isn't there?
21:56:24	Torne	i dunno how buflib works to be honest ;)
21:56:49	jhMikeS	yo mean the MoB?
21:57:05	CIA-2	r29527 build result: All green
21:57:24	Torne	codec_*alloc doesn't do any compacting, it just advances a free pointer
21:57:47		Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:57:47	kugel	Torne: it's handle based and you need to get the data pointer from new after each yield
21:57:56	Torne	kugel: Oh, right.
21:57:59	jhMikeS	vorbis is using something more advanced
21:58:00	Torne	Yeah, I wasn't thinking that
21:58:05	Torne	though that is one way to do it.
21:58:41	Torne	I was thinking about just having buffers have a callback for when they are moved
21:58:41	kugel	Torne: IIRC, that is. But I also think there was a talk to change it to a callback system which is called when the buffer moves
21:58:49	Torne	Yeah :)
21:59:02	Torne	For a lot of things they may only have to update a couple of external pointer
21:59:03	*	kugel was faster :P
21:59:08	Torne	not on my server! :)
21:59:12	kugel	hehe
21:59:14	Torne	things which are complicated enough may just want to drop and reload their data
21:59:26	Torne	this isn't something that would have to happen very often
21:59:35	Torne	so it probably doesn't matter if it is slightly expensive
21:59:39	Torne	well, compared to memmove()
21:59:40	jhMikeS	the audio buffering is strictly a queue, and handles are compacted by pushing them forward as far as possible, accounting for alignment and wrap restrictions
21:59:57	Torne	jhMikeS: yah, I wasn't anticipating wanting to touch audio buffering
22:00
22:00:04	Torne	That's a ring buffer and that works fine
22:00:20	Torne	It's just things like wanting to be able to enlarge the font buffer, or whatever.
22:00:42	Torne	Things that only hapen on configuration changes
22:00:46	Torne	or after USB unplug
22:00:48	Torne	or similar.
22:00:53	Torne	Not things that happen during normal operation
22:01:46	jhMikeS	apps/codecs/lib/tlsf has a real allocator
22:02:26	Torne	Yes, but real allocators suck for general use
22:02:37	Torne	Well, unless they are very smart
22:02:49	Torne	And very smart ones are quite big (check out the binsize for dlmalloc sometime)
22:03:21	kugel	IIUC tlsf isn't very smart since it's trimmed for real-time alloc
22:03:24	Torne	Yeah.
22:03:38	Torne	dlmalloc is optimised for efficient memory usage, i.e. fragmentation avoidance
22:03:48	Torne	But the source is probably 10-15 times longer
22:03:53	Torne	and it's certainly not realtime :)
22:04:14	Torne	it's the basis of the malloc in most OS's C library
22:04:56	Torne	I just think we actually have sufficient info about what memory is used for in our system that we could do a decent compacting allocator without binsize going up much
22:05:04	Torne	and it'd avoid pretty much all "reboot to change setting" situations
22:05:24	kugel	afaik buflib compacts
22:05:38	Torne	where is it?
22:05:50	kugel	Unhelpful wrote it, he knows for sure
22:05:53	Torne	oh there
22:06:01	kugel	in the pluginlib, pf uses it for the slides
22:06:02	Torne	Yeah that's using handles
22:06:13	Torne	which means you have to reacquire the pointer every time you yield
22:06:33	Torne	For most buffers in core that's probably not the best strategy
22:06:33	Strife89	Are there any anti-aliased fonts in the font pack yet?
22:06:37	*	jhMikeS hates this yield/not yield reliance everywhere
22:06:37	Torne	because use is far more common than reallocation
22:07:21	kugel	Strife89: no
22:07:25	Torne	jhMikeS: relying on things not yielding is a feature :)
22:07:35	Torne	Writing preemption-sfae code is way harder
22:07:40	Torne	and bigger
22:07:43	Torne	and slower :)
22:07:50	kugel	Strife89: and it's unlikely that aaf will ever be in the same font pack as mono fonts
22:08:08	jhMikeS	not really, it creates complacent threading code and isn't much safer in practice
22:08:30	Torne	It's not really about safety
22:08:47	Torne	If you can get acceptable performance without preemption then it's basically guaranteed that cooperative multitasking code will be smaller and faster
22:08:52	jhMikeS	oh, it is. most the playback troubles come from the assumptions about it.
22:08:57	Strife89	kugel: Has anyone written anything on making one's own fonts?
22:09:14	Torne	jhMikeS: well yes but people also make the same class of mistake in preemptable code..
22:09:23	kugel	Strife89: I updated CreateFonts
22:09:24	Torne	go see how much code isn't actually threadsafe in the world :)
22:09:35	Torne	I'm talking about code written by people who understand how to write safe code in either system
22:09:51	jhMikeS	I haven't had the experience that proper preemptible code really that much more complicated or harder to write
22:10:09	Torne	It's not really harder
22:10:14	Torne	But it is more complicated because you have to use locks :)
22:10:29	Torne	The only reason to have preemption is if your latency is too bad without it
22:10:38	Torne	Throughput is worse and code is larger and more complex
22:10:39	jhMikeS	meh, locks...sometimes.
22:10:45	Torne	At best it's the same
22:10:48	Torne	Yes, "sometimes"
22:10:58	Torne	and the same is true of cooperative: most things don't need to think about it
22:11:16	Strife89	kugel: If I knew how to invoke convttf I'd be fine from here on, but ... :/
22:11:22	jhMikeS	that's one thing I definitely hate is the latency of task switching, but few task switch calls would be needed
22:11:33	kugel	Strife89: try convttf −−help
22:11:38	jhMikeS	*fewer would be needed with preemption
22:11:46	*	kugel adds an example
22:11:56	Torne	jhMikeS: how do you figure that?
22:12:01	Torne	i'm pretty sure that's provably false :)
22:12:21	Torne	it's certainly not true in general
22:12:27	jhMikeS	Torne: any unexpected yield in the code (you don't know where they'll show up in deep calls) is essentially a preemption
22:12:33	CIA-2	New commit by bluebrother (r29528): Remove outdated and unmaintained wpseditor. ...
22:12:35	Torne	why do you think so many high performance network servers are not multithreaded? :)
22:12:42	Strife89	kugel: convttf is located where?
22:12:53	kugel	tools
22:12:57	Torne	jhMikeS: You should know
22:12:59	jhMikeS	Torne: Because, all of all those yield calls for one.
22:13:01	Torne	if you don't you are doing it wrong.
22:13:22	Torne	i've spent a long time writing multithreaded code ;)
22:13:27	jhMikeS	secondly, things can be allowed to execute for extended periods
22:13:30	Torne	including the more fun case of lockless preemptible code
22:13:36	Strife89	Weird
22:13:55	Torne	that one is the one that's hard, but it's what you have to do to get high throughput and low latency
22:14:04	jhMikeS	lockess is fun, but alot of that won't work nicely here
22:14:06	Strife89	I updated my sources but convttf doesn't exist
22:14:29	Torne	you'd be surprised, maybe :)
22:14:38	Torne	It's unfortunately difficult on most of the processors we support :(
22:14:43	Strife89	Oh, fun. Only source code for it.
22:14:44	jhMikeS	it sucks without universal atomic primitives always available
22:14:46	Torne	its much easier on ARM11
22:15:09	jhMikeS	ldrex, strex, yes
22:15:12	Torne	aanyway. time to go do stuff.
22:15:41	*	jhMikeS still barks loudly in favor of preemption
22:18:08	kugel	Strife89: it'll be compiled if you do a build (any build)
22:18:53	kugel	Torne: buflib could be converted to callback, right?
22:19:40	Strife89	kugel: And then invoke it from the folder I compiled in?
22:19:58	kugel	invoke it from anywhere you like
22:19:59	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:21:14	jhMikeS	Torne: btw, noone's doing anything wrong, what yields or doesn't is just not easily accounted for at this point. the issue is deeper than that.
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22:22:02	CIA-2	r29528 build result: All green
22:27:41	kugel	dionoea: ping
22:32:05	dionoea	pong
22:32:14	dionoea	kugel
22:32:30	kugel	dionoea: did you get anywhere with your playback issue?
22:33:04	dionoea	nope. didn't try anything yet
22:33:08	kugel	okay
22:33:33	dionoea	i'll probably try tomorrow evening
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22:44:17	jhMikeS	Torne: don't you that is equivocating on scheduling latencies vs. contention latencies?
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23:14:21	CIA-2	New commit by kugel (r29529): Android: Add a nowplaying bar to the 3x3 widget
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23:24:08	CIA-2	r29529 build result: All green
23:26:43	gevaerts	kugel: ping
23:27:03	kugel	gevaerts: pong
23:27:25	gevaerts	kugel: I'm (finally!) properly looking at your gsoc mail
23:27:35	kugel	nice
23:28:27	gevaerts	I'm not entirely sure about the first two, but the other three look good
23:28:31		Quit petur (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:28:50	gevaerts	The first two may be good as well, but I'm not sure I understand the impact well enough
23:29:43	kugel	they're not proposals as such, but ideas for discussion
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23:29:58	gevaerts	Yes, I know, which is why I'm discussing them now :)
23:30:28	gevaerts	Redoing the database wouldn't be very compatible with fixing integration of other stuff with the database
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23:33:39	saratoga	amiconn: any chance you could run RMAA on your Clip+ with stock rockbox and with your patched build?
23:33:58	saratoga	i've seen several other people complain about similar problems, so i suspect you may have a different hardware revision
23:34:03	saratoga	(then I do)
23:34:57	gevaerts	I actually positively like the bookmark and playlist database ones
23:35:18	kugel	gevaerts: well, they needn't be compatible
23:36:16	kugel	redoing the database was essentially Torne's idea. but one of the goal would be to get a maintainer for currently unmaintained code
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23:36:40	gevaerts	kugel: I thought we volunteered pamaury for that? :)
23:37:56	gevaerts	The thing is that I would feel really bad if we picked a proposal for redesigning the database, reject another proposal because it would need a more or less stable database API, and have the first one fail
23:37:59	pamaury	I don't want to maintain this horrible code !
23:38:56	gevaerts	While on the other hand whoever fixes bookmark/database interaction or playlist/database interaction may also accidentally end up fixing the database
23:39:28	jhMikeS	can we redesign playlists too?
23:40:21	gevaerts	Oh, and the multi-select thing might be fun to have as well
23:40:49		Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
23:41:42	kugel	gevaerts: I think it's not asked too much to ask the students to work together for the unlikely case that both are picked
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23:42:09	gevaerts	kugel: to be honest, I think it is. What if one of them vanishes?
23:42:58	kugel	you're pessimistic
23:44:04	kugel	JdGordon\| also did a major skin engine rework during the development of the new parser and theme editor and they collaborated very well
23:44:30	pamaury	but JdGordon\| is a regular developper who knows the code well
23:44:44	gevaerts	Yes, but JdGordon\| has been there for a while
23:44:54	gevaerts	It's not as if we never had a student disappear
23:45:10	*	jhMikeS thirds that point
23:46:40	kugel	well, then chose one of those (or none). I'm not insisting that all that ideas end up in proposals on the wiki
23:46:45		Quit Strife89 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:48:57		Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called)
23:49:46		Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@168.16.226.187)
23:50:10	*	gevaerts is a bit hesitant
23:50:49	gevaerts	I know many people would like a new database, so I don't want to reject that idea...
23:51:00	gevaerts	Yes, maybe just present them all and see what happens
23:52:54	*	AlexP doesn't care as long as he isn't forced to use it :)
23:54:14		Join freddyb [0] (~chatzilla@216.8.239.112.etczone.com)
23:54:51	gevaerts	hm, does anyone remember why we didn't keep USB host support on the ideas list last year?
23:56:55	pamaury	because no one has a player which has usb host ?
23:57:10	*	gevaerts has several!
23:57:14	pamaury	usb host would be really nice, but there are too few players with it :(
23:57:25		Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
23:57:31	freddyb	Kugel: Would it be ok if I changed tagcache.c to follow soft link directories on the ui simulator?
23:57:32	pamaury	I want one ! :)
23:57:53	kugel	freddyb: :?
23:58:44	kugel	gevaerts: there probably isn't a reason

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