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#rockbox log for 2011-03-06

00:00:21gevaertskugel: yes. That's a good reason to keep both
00:02:00kugelfreddyb: that's not intended. r28884 was for RaaA mainly
00:02:33freddybI'm going to change it then, if no one cares.
00:03:06gevaertsfreddyb: make sure you keep current behaviour for RaaA
00:03:48kugelfreddyb: better change io.c to not return symlinks for the sim as they don't exist on targets
00:03:52kugelnative targets* :)
00:04:08kugelthe actual bug is that RaaA still uses io.c of course ;)
00:04:19 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:04:39gevaertsThe sim should use simlinks, not symlinks :)
00:04:57freddybErr, I was going to do this:
00:05:17gevaertsAny thoughts about loopback mounting and USB CD emulation for gsoc? Too fancyful, possibly?
00:05:46Tornei think that would actually be useful to a surprising number of people
00:06:07TorneI'd love to have a device that can be one of a bunch of bootable images on command without having to hack together some custom boot frontend
00:06:09kugelgevaerts: didnt you hack up loopback mount already?
00:06:19gevaertskugel: "hack up", yes
00:06:27kugeldo you consider it enough work?
00:06:49Tornei think it would be
00:06:52gevaertsTogether with CD emulation, yes. Definitely if we do audio CD emulation :)
00:07:01Torneloopback mounting "properly" is a reasonable chunk
00:07:05Torneand emulating being a CD is another
00:07:14kugelI would love loopback mount since I regularly use my sansa e200 to install OSes on my laptop :)
00:07:24kugelalways wiping the microsd sucks :p
00:07:38gevaertskugel: the current implementation has nice features like breaking if the underlying disk spins down IIRC
00:07:55kugelless latency, awesome!
00:08:12kugeloh I read that wrong
00:08:24gevaertsIf we don't do audio CD emulation, the thing would be somewhat outside of the official main goals of rockbox
00:09:07kugelis audio cd a lot different from any (bootable?) cd?
00:09:42Tornehe means emulating an audio cd from encoded audio :)
00:09:53gevaertsI'm not sure on the protocol side, but what I really mean (but of course didn't say) is presenting any playlist as an audio CD
00:09:59Tornei.e. decoding it and faking PCM data
00:10:00kugelthere was also the goal of multiple selectable usb drivers, part of hid but not finished
00:10:18gevaertsAnd that's lots of fun, involving the playlist engine, SCSI, USB, seeking in codecs, and everything
00:10:52Torneanyway, it's not really related to our core goals, no, but i think it's a pretty neat feature nonetheless
00:11:11Torneand it might help to make usb more modular ;)
00:11:16kugelI think we've pretty much covered our core goals long ago :)
00:11:49Tornei think if someone wants to work on it it's fine
00:12:03kugelwell, tts would probably still be a core goal
00:14:56kugel"bottom 0x50 Push object to the bottom of its container, not changing its size. "
00:14:58gevaertsWe also know it has some nontrivial hurdles, although we don't have full details on what those are...
00:15:33 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!)
00:15:50*gevaerts will write up the loopback+CD thing
00:16:12Tornegevaerts: is actual loopback mounting actually really related, btw?
00:16:16gevaertsOh, bonus points for CD burning support of course :)
00:16:25Torneisn't USB disk/cd emulating kinda orthogonal to actually mounting a FAT image under rockbox?
00:16:37gevaertshm, probably
00:16:46Tornei guess it depends how you do it
00:17:00kugelthat's why I asked about bootable live cd images :)
00:17:05TorneWell yeah.
00:17:23TorneJust convincing the storage layer that there's noahter disk based on a loopback file lets you do loopback mounting and also USB disk emulation probably
00:17:29Tornebut USB cd emulation is likely to need a bunch of special handling..
00:17:41Torneit might be easier to have just a USB emulation mode that handles both without using the storage layer
00:18:49gevaertsOf course loopback mounting and iso9660 support are also useful, since that would allow people to play dvd images directly in mpegplayer.rock
00:19:08CIA-2New commit by fredwbauer (r29530): Follow symlink dirs on UI simulator
00:19:14gevaerts(assuming they happen to have matching resolutions)
00:19:35gevaerts(and assuming the bitrate isn't too high for the CPU)
00:19:55gevaertshm, maybe not useful at all on any player we run on then :)
00:20:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:20:13TorneWell, videocd
00:20:19gevaertsah, yes
00:20:20TorneDVDs are UDF :)
00:20:24 Quit enthdegree (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:20:30Torneadding iso9660 might be considerd against the whole no more fs thing :)
00:20:51gevaertsWe'd add iso9660 to mpegplayer.rock :)
00:20:59jhMikeSbloody hell
00:21:06TorneBut then you don't need loopback mounting to use it
00:21:11Torneit can just read it as a file
00:21:22gevaertsoh, right
00:21:37gevaertsWell, relocatable plugins and filesystem drivers as plugins then?
00:22:02TorneWell yes ;)
00:22:02*gevaerts wants loopback support, and he wants it to be useful!
00:22:13*jhMikeS wants whatever these two hams took today
00:22:53gevaertsWe'll need some sort of initrd support too
00:23:13gevaertsOtherwise we can't ever load the FAT driver to load anything else!
00:23:15Torne(well i say haha but actually that wouldn'tbe very hard)
00:23:22Torne(just concatenate it onto the end of the image
00:25:37gevaertskugel: any chance of you expanding those ideas a bit so they're wiki-ready, or should I try to find other volunteers for that?
00:25:57kugelI thought we work together on expanding the ideas
00:26:50CIA-2r29530 build result: All green
00:27:21 Quit JackWinter (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:27:39gevaertsFor the playlist and bookmarks ones, that mainly involves listing the missing features?
00:30:46gevaertshm, are those really separate things? Isn't the reason that bookmarks don't work with the database mainly that playlists aren't fully integrated with the database?
00:31:19*gevaerts isn't a database user, so he doesn't really know the issues
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00:32:09jhMikeSwhat do you mean "work with"? "obligate one to use the database"?
00:32:11kugeldatabase queries result in dynamic playlist as opposed to playing folders
00:32:35 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
00:33:03kugelthat a) results in the "erase dynamic playlist" prompt but also has other disadvantages...let alone the inconsistency with the file browser
00:33:30kugelI'm not aware of all the issues but I remember there are some which came up over the years
00:34:21gevaertsMaybe a quick mail to -dev asking people to enumerate the issues?
00:34:24bluebrothernice. Building Rockbox Utility for Windows takes 2:20 on my Mac, 6:30 in a VM on the same box :)
00:35:33kugelgevaerts: good plan
00:35:58kugel"we have no maintainer" is also a good reason in my book
00:36:48 Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection)
00:40:41gevaertskugel: I'll send one in a bit, after I've worked a bit on the CD emulation idea
00:43:48AlexPjhMikeS: I sincerely hope not
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00:47:18 Join veve [0] (~veverone@
00:47:28vevehi there :)
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00:50:41 Join veve [0] (~veverone@
00:51:03vevei've encountered a small problem when using RockBox with my Sansa Clip v1: it doesn't play my oggs. Many files, created in the same way, won't play any more. You can have a look at my bug post here, if you are interested >
00:53:17gevaertsveve: I'll try that file on some of my players in a minute
00:53:47vevegevaerts: thank you :)
00:55:12u42pi had some problems with ogg files on my clip+ too, should investigate that some day
00:55:17u42pthey made it hang
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01:01:30gevaertsThat file fails on my clipv1, and plays fine on my fuzev2
01:02:59vevegevaerts: maybe, if you use RockBox :-S. It playes fine on Sansa Clip v1 default firmware (01.01.35)
01:03:13gevaertsI don't care about that :)
01:03:17veveanyway... if ogg doesn't work i will try AAC Plus :)
01:03:34 Join leavittx_ [0] (~lev@
01:03:54gevaertsMy bet (as someone who knows nearly nothing about codecs) is that this particular file needs too much RAM to decode
01:03:57*jhMikeS 's been playing oggs lately
01:04:29CIA-2New commit by bluebrother (r29531): Support cross compiling for Windows target. ...
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01:06:01vevegevaerts: i understand that with RockBox we are using a different decoder, but in the spects it says "efficient" at the ogg section. So... my bet is that it doesn't use that much RAM to decode :)
01:06:57gevaertsveve: efficient usually refers to CPU usage
01:08:04 Part vnl
01:08:30gevaertsI understand that vorbis is a bit annoying to decode in the sense that it needs a rather large amount of RAM
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01:09:17gevaertsWell, more "unbounded" than "rather large". There's no amount of RAM that's definitely enough for all vorbis files
01:11:02CIA-2r29531 build result: All green
01:13:50 Quit freddyb (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206122652])
01:14:29jhMikeSsomething looks odd in creating malloc_buf
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01:22:13*jhMikeS is missing where it actually adds the room for the malloc buffer
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01:28:41jhMikeSah, so it's just been moved to use the codec slack space but the dead code left there :\
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01:33:46jhMikeSin that case, it looks like something to delete
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01:36:39 Part domonoky
01:38:15gevaertskugel: sent (finally...)
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01:41:51CIA-2New commit by bluebrother (r29532): Set missing svn:mime-type on png images.
01:48:26CIA-2r29532 build result: All green
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01:59:33jhMikeSok, we'll get rid of that cruft in playback.c and cache align the actual buffer it's using
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02:09:43 Quit simonrvn (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:10:51fatelvissssam I correct in thinking that the majority of the majority of the rockbox installation is on the storage area of the mp3player as opposed to being in the firmware?
02:15:17jhMikeSin most cases it's on the storage medium, in some cases it can be flashed
02:16:28jhMikeSflashing anything other than the bootloaders in those instances where they must be isn't obligatory
02:17:08fatelvisssswell, im asking because I believe I need to reformat the the storage area. im guessing ill have to reinstall rockbox after doing this?
02:18:55jhMikeSreextracting and new .zip, yes. the bootloader, it depends if the bootloader is also on the storage (model specific)
02:20:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:20:42fatelvissssok. thank you.
02:20:59dfktfatelvissss, usually you can just back up the whole .rockbox folder when formatting your storage, and all your settings will be preserved - this doesn't include any bootloader, of course
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02:22:17fatelvissssthat sounds like a really straightforward and selfexplanotory thing that i definitely should have done before i clicked on the format button. :-/
02:22:28dfktouch ;)
02:23:50fatelvissssoh well, will know for next time. thank you for your answers
02:29:18dfktbasically every user setting is stored in config.cfg, the rest is mostly themes, fonts, icons that might be useful to keep
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03:03:39CIA-2New commit by jethead71 (r29533): Remove malloc_buf references from playback.c since it's no longer used for anything and align the codec slack space buffer that is now use as the ...
03:11:42CIA-2r29533 build result: All green
03:17:35vevehey... i have another question... if you can answer it... it will be great :): Does RockBox support AACPlus Playback? (from my tests the format of the file must be *.m4a and the codec must use the LC technologies)
03:17:47 Join Keripo [0] (
03:18:50veveif i try to create a quality audio file at a low bitrate (HE-AAC) then the playback will be faster (2x, 3x... i don't know)
03:19:21veveso from my point of view the playback of the low bitrate but HQ AAC files is not supported
03:19:27vevehm... what do you think?
03:19:43 Quit Keripo1 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
03:20:26TorneHE-AAC has some issues, most players are too slow for it
03:22:50 Join JdGordy [0] (~jonno@
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03:38:07veveso i can't play aacplus files at low bitrate
03:38:25vevethe next best thing (ogg files at low bit rate)... can't be played
03:38:51 Quit JackWinter (Remote host closed the connection)
03:39:00veveso i'm somehow forced to use other formats (like mp3) at higher bitrates (over 80 kbs at least)
03:39:54vevebottom line... i have RockBox... so i have a lot of very interesting features and functionalities, wich i really like, but i can't play my music :|
03:40:38 Join JackWinter [0] (
03:57:01[Saint]veve: What player is this? there's always the option of using a target that has the power to meet your needs.
03:57:19[Saint]Installing Rockbox doesn't make your targets hardware any more capable than it was initially.
03:58:24 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Quit: Ex-Chat)
03:59:18veve[Saint]: Sansa Clip v1 (and the OGGs played fine with the original firmware)
03:59:18veveI don't expect any performance increase :), of course
03:59:44[Saint]the Clip(s) aren't really a terribly powerful DAP.
03:59:58[Saint]Far from the worst, but, not the best.
04:00:10veveIF i set the encoder to a lower setting... like quality -1,0000000... then the ogg doesn't play any more
04:00:45kugel[Saint]: I'd argue they're incredibly powerful for their size
04:01:33[Saint]kugel: Yes, but...far from the most capable target available.
04:02:42veve[Saint]: Well... i'm pretty pleased now. After many tests OGGs can be played IF they are kept above Quality 0,000000 (which is fine). AAC would be nice, of course... but... that is it :)
04:02:45 Join kugel_ [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
04:03:30kugel_I don't know about the newer ipod classics, but the ams players are on the gigabeat f level (or better) which was the next behind the beast
04:03:35 Quit kugel (Read error: Operation timed out)
04:04:29[Saint]I've no idea about the early model Classics, but the newer ones are set to be the "New Beast".
04:05:37vevebtw.... i think i can't delete the files
04:05:39veveusing Rockbokx
04:05:46veveRockBox :|
04:05:50[Saint]You certainly should be able to.
04:05:52kugel_[Saint]: they're not far behind for sure
04:06:19veve[Saint]: i'll check...
04:06:40[Saint]veve: You can, pull up the contecxt menu on the file, select delete.
04:07:06[Saint]when I said "you should be able to" what I really meant was "you can, unless it's broken on your player".
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04:13:12veve[Saint]: It's there. i had to press the Select button a little longer
04:13:36vevethank you for your help. i'm out
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04:20:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:29:31kugel_I can confirm that rockbox' embedded albumart support is good enough for amazon :)
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04:39:55[Saint]heh...I just noticed that RaaA will keep playing audio if I stop the service during playback.
04:40:36[Saint]oh, and it crashed in a spectacular fashion when I started rockbox back up again to "sto" playback. (actually forced the phone to reboot), nice.
04:41:10kugel_depends on how you stop it
04:41:33kugel_only the builtin function can stop it, these task manager apps can't (not anymore since froyo)
04:42:00[Saint]It was unresponsive, so I just stopped the service (usually works) 2.1
04:42:21[Saint]playback quite happily continued though.
04:42:30kugel_don't know then
04:42:31 Quit Barahir_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
04:42:49kugel_people keep reporting problems I never saw so far :)
04:43:07[Saint]Well, if it helps at all, I can reproduce it ;D
04:57:09jhMikeSMust be the first time playback was unstoppable :P
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06:20:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:44:07[Saint]JdGordon|: If %Tl isn't linked to a specific touch region with an identifier, it's still read from the whole screen?
06:48:24 Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.)
06:49:50JdGordon|[Saint]: yes
06:50:53[Saint]Hmmm...the problem must be button repeat values or something...I think for cabbie it's not good enough to have the popup fire whenever the screen is touched.
06:51:37[Saint]rasher tested it yesterday, and from what he was saying the popup was firing, as well as the touch area immediately under his finger as soon as it fired without any time to see the actual popup.
06:52:19JdGordon|yes, i got this also when i was playing
06:52:33[Saint]What is a sensible item on the wps to touch to launch the popup window?
06:52:35JdGordon|the fix i tried caused the rep button to stop working completly
06:52:51JdGordon|the whole region under it
06:52:53[Saint]I figure i'll just link it to the titlebar.
06:53:23JdGordon|na, yuck
06:53:46[Saint]Or does that not seem sane? I think it seems weird as "the whole region under it" in this case is displaying the next track info.
06:54:20[Saint]so, there needs to be an obvious "touch this and this happens" thing.
06:55:01[Saint]or at least "touch this and *something* happens. having a large area in the middle of the screen or the whole screen leads to accidental annoying presses.
06:55:52[Saint]The titlebar seemed sane, but only to me I guess, as that's my solution in my cabbie version to avoid the popup completely.
06:56:19JdGordon|the popup really needsa a button to get to the main menu also
06:56:57[Saint]that's another thing I fixed with the titlebar on my theme ;)
06:58:19[Saint]It's not *absolutely* necessary, as you can get to the main menu from "browse" pretty easily, but on the targets with lots of would be nice.
06:58:43JdGordon|no you cant
06:58:51JdGordon|browse then "back" 15 times
06:59:16[Saint]if you have insanely deep dir structures...I guess.
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07:00:07JdGordon|/sdcard/music/<artist>/<album>/ is deep enough to be annoying
07:00:24[Saint]I suppose my theme does kinda heavily rely on the presence of HW buttons.
07:00:36[Saint]damn tablets! :P
07:01:40JdGordon|screw the tablet.. thats my phone
07:02:09JdGordon|ah guess who forgot the menu button works :p
07:03:30[Saint]heh ;)
07:03:40 Quit Horscht (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
07:04:50JdGordon|[Saint]: a possible fix for the hidden button nregion being pressed is stick it into another viewport which is disabled when the popup is open
07:05:40JdGordon|the region which enables the popup
07:06:12 Quit panni_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:06:14JdGordon|i tihnk that might require either allowing regions to share labels, or variables of some sort
07:06:40[Saint]I'm uploading what I was playing with I think don't think (apparently, it's been shown a few times here) that I'm the right person to make decisions about what's sane in the default theme.
07:07:09[Saint]All the alignment is done, images are done, just this popup viewport (alignment and touch regions worked out there too) being a pain.
07:07:23*JdGordon| is yet to see anything sane in the default themes anyway
07:08:00[Saint]Well, I bet it would start something I wouldn't want if I went and linked a popup to the titlebar ;)
07:08:45[Saint]I'll do the art and the bulk of the code, and you dev types can work out the way people are supposed to use it ;)
07:15:17[Saint]JdGordon|: is what I was playing with.
07:16:05[Saint]oooops, heh...accidentally included all the fonts in there too.
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07:25:38[Saint]Oh...I also took the libterty of removing the backgrounds for volume, shuffle and repeat from the backdrop, this hopefully makes it easier in future (using the same method) to make the default theme dynamically resizable.
07:26:28[Saint]Oh, and I took out that horrible ten-step incremental volume display and added a nice bar-type one.
07:27:21JdGordThe volume display is pointless on touch
07:27:28JdGordEspecially on raaaaaaaa
07:27:49JdGordThe os controls volume
07:27:56[Saint]I've spoken to a number of people that enjoy having the two controls for finer tuning.
07:28:32[Saint]it's like being able to set the max volume on a DAPs OS
07:28:39JdGordEither way changing it in that tiny icon is braindead
07:29:22[Saint]I think "braidead" is a little far.
07:29:52JdGordIts impossible to use
07:30:47[Saint]I have tremendous man hands, the one on the theme you're talking about is 88px wide, the one on my theme is 44px wide...I can use mine.
07:30:54[Saint]sucky touchscreen?
07:31:44[Saint]It could be better, though...I'm bo no means saying it can't change.
07:32:44[Saint]touching the volume icon should bring up the same popup as the context menu/browser/etc, but with a slider for volue.
07:33:33[Saint]but, baby steps ;) that type of thing wasn't even possible when I wrote that theme.
07:34:45jhMikeSso if you convttf a ttf, it's ready to go?
07:35:37jhMikeSnice. now I just need a new build :)
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07:41:52[Saint]Hmmm...I guess the themesite needs to allow .ttf fonts now?
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07:44:07JdGordon|yes, although fonts shold really be seperate
07:46:26JdGordon|[Saint]: no sbs yet?
07:46:49*jhMikeS wants a nice .sbs for the 240x320
07:48:59[Saint]jhMikeS: RaaA?
07:49:28jhMikeSfor the two gigabeats
07:49:44[Saint]JdGordon|: Nah...not yet, but that's just a matter of cut&paste and a UI viewport.
07:49:56[Saint]It's basically just dumping the .wps on the .sbs
07:51:08jhMikeSI've been looking at the same default statusbar for ages. Something that better matches the theme would be nice. What happened to the sb context thing?
07:51:38[Saint]I figured I'd leave that until there's playback control in the .sbs though, as on my theme it looks a little weird having "buttons" you can't use.
07:52:31[Saint]jhMikeS: My RaaA theme for 240x320 will likely work fine on the beast
07:52:45[Saint]One sec.
07:53:10jhMikeSAny touchscreen items to control playback would be pointless though
07:53:24[Saint]yes, but you have HW buttons.
07:53:36jhMikeSyes, real buttons
07:54:12[Saint]touchscreen tags are just ignored if it's not touchscreen. You just mentioned wanting a nice .sbs and IMO, I have one.
07:55:39jhMikeSI did a convttf of arial real quick. I'm not sure how that's going to look.
07:57:13[Saint]This theme is "pre AA fonts inclusion", but it's just a matter of chaning some font names in a few places. Unfortunately using multifont means that the fonts need to be "hardcoded".
07:57:32[Saint] <−− 240x320 Cabbie
07:57:57[Saint](also, excuse it sharing the name of my handset ;))
07:59:13[Saint]Oh...shit, on the .wps there's two big touchscreen things for next/prev that'll look ass on a non-touch target (they look ass on touch targets too, but are useful).
07:59:30[Saint]if you're just using the .sbs though, that shouldn't matter or I canjust remove them for you.
08:01:44JdGordon|[Saint]: start work on 1024*600 and ill get polayback controls working :)
08:02:04jhMikeSthanks. I'm getting "unsupported compression method" for the images...with the 7z program :\
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08:02:15JdGordon|[Saint]: also, I tihnk you shold drop the bold font, non-bold looks bette (although bolding some lines in the wps is nice)
08:03:43jhMikeSoops, not just the images, the whole thing is saying that
08:05:22jhMikeSlol, there's no spacing between glyphs
08:05:58[Saint] <−− try a .zip
08:06:25[Saint]wierd though, as I downloaded the .7z from that link and unpacked it sucessfully here.
08:07:04jhMikeSIs the helvetica around in ttf?
08:13:47jhMikeSthanks, it looks pretty darn good. just need the font stuff together now :)
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08:26:37jhMikeSah, there's one bug with convttf. the numerals come out proportional
08:31:38[Saint]jhMikeS: <−− make ugly next/prev touch areas touchscreen conditional.
08:32:33[Saint](should fix the .wps, where "fix" == "remove obvious traces of it being designed for touchscreen")
08:33:09jhMikeSI only loaded the .sbs
08:33:57jhMikeSah, now I see what you mean
08:40:20jhMikeSquite a nice change from the usual default. thanks again
08:45:11jhMikeSwhen in the FM screen, there's a big empty square at the top though
08:46:29amiconnsaratoga: RMAA?
08:47:02amiconnAnother question - what was the problem wrt playing raw aac again?
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08:52:51[Saint]jhMikeS: Ah...hmmmm, yes. There's no dedicated .fms interesting it's not using the correct backdrop there.
08:54:00[Saint]There's a hole in the titlebar to let the disk access animation show through, it's visible due to there not being a backdrop loaded by the .fms I guess.
08:56:37[Saint]changing the default .fms to load my backdrop instead of the the cabbie default should fix that.
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09:00:21jhMikeS[Saint]: Yes, I see that correctly everywhere else I've looked
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09:11:05jhMikeSthe next track display seems to switch around odd things
09:11:16jhMikeS*to odd
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09:19:52[Saint]what constitutes an "odd thing"?
09:22:14[Saint]It should (assuming a next track is present) alternate between displaying the next track title, than album and artist.
09:22:14[Saint]and it works as expected on my handset.
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09:22:19[Saint]If there's no next track present it will use the space to display genre and year for the current track.
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09:28:09jhMikeSI guess it's ok then
09:29:39jhMikeS"Next Track:" was still there so I wasn't sure
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12:35:44kugel_JdGord, [Saint]: don't you use the menu button to go to the main menu?
12:35:58[Saint]I do.
12:36:23[Saint]But I wanted to make sure my theme didn't assume there was always a HW button to do so.
12:36:57JdGordOnly when I remember
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12:39:25[Saint](in order to achieve that I added two touch areas to the titlebar, long press goes to the context menu, and short press goes to the main menu...I don't use those personally, but I wanted to make sure they were there for odd hardware without physical buttons handy)
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13:13:04kugel_bluebrother: the mime type doesn't seem to be needed for viewvc
13:15:14bluebrotherkugel_: maybe, but it's needed to avoid svn trying to text-diff the files
13:15:35kugel_svn has binary file detection
13:15:52bluebrothergetting notification mails with png files shown as garbled text is quite annoying
13:16:01bluebrothermaybe, but then it didn't work in that case.
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13:16:39bluebrotherTortoiseSVN detects binary files and automatically sets svn:mime-type to application/octet-stream
13:16:56bluebrotherso I'm convinced it's a svn client thing.
13:17:56AlchymistaIs there an italian in this chat?
13:19:29bluebrotherkugel_: also, from the SVN book: "To determine whether a contextual merge is possible, Subversion examines the svn:mime-type property. If the file has no svn:mime-type property, or has a MIME type that is textual (e.g., text/*), Subversion assumes it is text."
13:19:45bluebrotherso not setting svn:mime-type on binary files _can_ be considered harmful
13:20:49kugel_I read somewhere on their (old) page that it searches the first 1k for a NUL byte
13:21:16kugel_I added the stuff you proposed to my .subversion/config now
13:21:53bluebrotherthat's in their FAQ. But they state that it's done on adding the file. I don't know how git-svn handles this but it seems it doesn't do that detection
13:22:27kugel_they're still not on the wiki, but I'm going to change it
13:22:51AlchymistaNel progetto rockbox perchè non mettono anche un emulatore del nes? Hanno messo l'emulatore del gbc che credo sia piu potente del nes... Ho visto infones ma non sono in grado di compilarlo, qualcuno lo sà fare? Scusatemi ma non sono inglese e sto traducendo con google traduttore
13:22:57AlchymistaIn the Rockbox project, why not put a nes emulator? They put the emulator gbc which I think is more powerful than the nes ... I saw infones but are not able to compile it, anyone can do it? Excuse me but I'm not English and I am translating with google translator
13:22:58*bluebrother was just trying to figure how git-svn handles adding binary files
13:23:30bluebrotherAlchymista: simply because someone has to do the work.
13:24:33Alchymistaah .. and there is no one who is interested in doing the conversion?
13:25:58Alchymistaah .. and there is someone who is interested in doing the conversion of this emulator?
13:26:43bluebrotherAlchymista: well, at least I'm not really interested in writing emulators :) But you might want to check back later / wait a while for responses. Not everyone is active this time of the day (it's middle of the day in europe plus weekend ... people do other things than Rockbox too :)
13:27:30kugel_bluebrother: it doesn't appear to set mime type since I committed some of the files you just changed
13:28:06Alchymistaah .. I understand thanks:)
13:30:39bluebrotherkugel_: after changing ~/.subversion/config and enabling autoprops?
13:30:54kugel_no, before
13:31:08*bluebrother can't follow
13:35:07AlchymistaHow do you compile windows such as this: ?? I read the guides but I do not understand English well..
13:38:39AlchymistaIf you do not understand I can change the wording of the question...
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14:18:31gevaertsHow would people feel about USB networking in rockbox?
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14:27:51pamaurywhat do mean by usb networking ?
14:28:14pamauryimplementing ethernet over usb or something similar ?
14:30:08pamaurythis would imply to have a networking stack too
14:30:40gevaertsSomething like lwip should be reasonably straightfoward to integrate
14:32:08n1sgevaerts: it sounds cool but i don't know what i'd want to use it for
14:32:27LearRegarding convttf, anyone looked at why digits don't get the same width (with a font that seem to have the same width for all digits in the Windows UI)?
14:33:46[Saint]I assume kugel put a target on his back to hassle about convttf issues now ;D
14:34:13kugel_Lear: jhMikeS already mentioned it
14:34:18kugel_should they have the same width?
14:34:42LearYep. Looks bad in time displays and the like...
14:35:32n1sgevaerts: what were you planning to do with it? or is it just because you can? :)
14:35:32kugel_I without further options convttf makes to digits as wide as they are in the input font
14:35:38kugel_s/I //
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14:36:01gevaertsn1s: http file uploading, streaming, wps-as-a-webapp :)
14:36:33kugel_perhaps I messed something up with my changes to convttf
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14:41:55LearHm, horiAdvance is the same for all digits, maybe that should be used rather than pitch (I'm guessing pitch is rarely 0)?
14:43:56LearNot enough, as pitch (and width) is sometimes bigger than advance...
14:45:00kugel_Lear: I removed horiBearingX from the calculation as it did strange things with narrow chars like i, perhaps it's needed for digits?
14:45:48n1sgevaerts: :)
14:45:56kugel_(see the last convttf on FS #8961)
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14:46:09n1sit would be great with a zune port then, since it has built in wifi
14:46:31gevaertsYes, or the sansa connect
14:46:54kugelLear: I didn't understand what horiBearingX is even after reading the docs
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14:47:50LearI tried always using horiAdvance for width. Digits looked good then, but some letters (e.g., "j") got too narrow then.
14:48:08kugeldo you use the -c option?
14:48:30LearNo, can try that.
14:49:18LearDidn't help. And I also forgot to mention I get lots of errors during conversion.
14:49:21kugelperhaps MAX(horiAdvance,width)?
14:49:55LearNot good for digits, as width is sometimes bigger than advance.
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15:23:39LearbearingX + advance works fine as width for digits, not so well for other chars.
15:27:57kugelLear: perhaps just special case numbers?
15:33:49LearMaybe. There could be some conversion errors (as in "errors = 1") with that though. And I only tested with one font.
15:34:30LearI'll probably look more into it, and see if I can figure out a better width/col_offset calculation.
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16:45:01AlchymistaWill there ever be a conversion of Rockbox ipod 3G?
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16:54:17Buscheldid aynone get the freetype stuff included into cygwin in a way that convtff is compiling?
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16:57:25gevaertsAlchymista: rockbox does support the ipod 3G, and it has supported it for years
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17:20:21pixelmakugel: I did experience diff not respecting binary files if the svn mime-type wasn't set resulting in incomprehensible lines in the diff (and some text editors choked on those). Same with SVGs which are not binary files but seeing the diff in text isn't helpful with those either in most cases
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17:51:44dpiercethe 'IpodConversionToFAT32' page only has the ipod nano 1st gen mbr listed. would it be safe to dd this on a 2nd gen nano?
17:57:45Buschelcan anybody upload a current convtff.exe for win32? I am totally stuck in getting this stuff to compile under cygiwn
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18:03:55*dpierce writing the file anyway. wish me luck
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18:20:51*pixelma couldn't use the Rockbox widget on RaaAa currently - the addition of the "Cover art" item to the settings list pushed the "accept" or whatever off screen even in portrait mode and without scrolling...
18:21:55pixelmait's even there for the smaller widgets :|
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18:27:59dpiercefor the record: writing the 1st gen nano mbr onto a 2nd gen seems to have worked without a hitch. someone should update the wiki to reflect this.
18:28:19dpierceif not ill create an account and come back here for write privs
18:37:30CIA-2New commit by bluebrother (r29534): Fix a potential variable problem. Change some messages a bit.
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18:44:07CIA-2r29534 build result: 2 errors, 0 warnings (bluebrother committed)
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18:48:03u42pTheSeven: are you around?
18:48:19TheSevenu42p: pong
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19:00:20saratogabasically just plots the frequency response and distortion of a test tone played from your clip
19:00:44saratogaif you've really got some other hardware revision that needs different settings, i expect SVN will look different in that test then on my player
19:01:44u42pi think i just unbricked my "4mb bricked" sansa clip+. i wiggled around in the top right corner of the case in an attempt to open it. it switch on and showed the rockbox (2.0) logo. so i randomly plugged usb in and now it shows the OF "connected" screen and i see 4 partitions
19:01:48kugelBuschel: is there a libfreetype for windows?
19:02:27u42pi cannot mount them though, "mount: special device /dev/sdf3 does not exist"
19:02:45u42phm, "head: cannot open `/dev/sdf1' for reading: No such file or directory"
19:02:57TheSeventhe partition table seems to be badly corrupted
19:03:49TheSevenu42p: can you do a "sudo dd if=/dev/sdf of=/tmp/mbr.bin bs=512 count=63", upload /tmp/mbr.bin somewhere and post a link?
19:04:46u42phead and hexdump of /dev/sdf :
19:04:48u42pwill do
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19:05:54TheSeventhis looks like part of a FAT32 FAT
19:06:09TheSeven(which doesn't belong there at all)
19:06:13Buschelkugel: funny, I browsed the site and did not find a hint. searching for "libfreetype" gives some more results. will come back, if I should still kepp stuck
19:06:20amiconnsaratoga: Hmm, how am I supposed to test a dap using that?
19:06:45u42pif anyone else is interested, query me
19:06:50saratogaamiconn: it gives you a wav file, you play it with the DAP plugged into the line in jack on your computer
19:06:50amiconnI suspect I would need at least a pc with some high quality soundcard?
19:06:55kugelBuschel: you probably need to compile that first for windows before convttf
19:07:06saratogawell high quality compared to your Clip, which apparently sounds awful?
19:07:18*amiconn only has onboard sound
19:07:23Buschelthere seems to be cygwin freetype library
19:07:55saratogawell if you don't think your computer is good enough to capture whatever kind of distortion you're hearing, then thats probably not going to work
19:08:14saratogawhat were you hearing anyway?
19:08:29TheSevenu42p: this is really weird
19:08:53u42pi can imagine!
19:09:23TheSevenseems like a FAT32 FAT starts at sector 6 with everything before that being zeroed
19:09:32TheSevenand it wraps at sector 32
19:10:08u42ptrying to dd the whole /dev/sdf i get "dd: reading `/dev/sdf': Input/output error" "2670592 bytes (2.7 MB) copied, 147.573 s, 18.1 kB/s"
19:10:13amiconnsaratoga: I was hearing imprecise sound with my earphones. At least I would have to solder together some wiring so I can hook up the earphones and the pc line in in parallel
19:10:31*TheSeven suspects some corruption internal to the storage device
19:10:57amiconnI'm quite sure I won't get the imprecise sound when impedance is changed from 16 ohms to several kohms
19:11:02TheSeveni.e. the FTL of the eMMC to NAND bridge being trashed
19:11:27TheSevennow if only i knew how those sansas work
19:11:33saratogaamiconn: i usually use a headphone splitter, you can buy then for a few dollars
19:11:54saratogabut what do you mean by imprecise sound?
19:12:01u42pnow "fdisk -l" does not list the wannabe partitions anymore: "Disk identifier: 0x00000000" "Disk /dev/sdf doesn't contain a valid partition table"
19:12:03saratogaclipping, missing frequencies, noise?
19:12:21saratogaon HA several people with newer model clips reported a strong background sound
19:12:34TheSevenu42p: do you have that "orig_image.bin" file referred to on the unbricking page?
19:12:44TheSevenif yes, i'd try following those instructions
19:12:59TheSevenmaybe we're accessing the raw flash currently because of some problem
19:13:17TheSevenif not, I don't think it will hurt much
19:13:34u42pi think i should have it around, doesnt RockboxUtility save it?
19:13:49*TheSeven has no idea about sansas and their installation process
19:13:57TheSevenyou said that wiggling the case made it behave that way?
19:14:26TheSeventhere might be some weird communication problem between the CPU and the NAND due to e.g. a loose connection
19:14:44u42pi tried to open it and in the top right corner (next to the power button) there was a small gap i could even get my fingernail into
19:15:07u42pthat would be weird, i bricked it out of stupidity (unplugging during rockbox installation/update)
19:15:50TheSevenbut you said that this was already taking unusually long, right?
19:15:57TheSevenprobably due to I/O error retries
19:16:23TheSevenand if you unplug it while it's copying the firmware update to the device, I don't think this should be able to brick it
19:16:36u42pyes, about 10 minutes and rockboxutility hung (its window was blank and not responding)
19:16:36TheSevenevery sane firmware would do some CRC check of the update before flashing it
19:16:52TheSevenso i'd suspect that there was already some hardware problem at that point
19:18:17u42phm, maybe i could write onto it?
19:19:46TheSevenwouldn't you need a working file system to do that?
19:20:35u42pyes but i thought maybe one could dd the included file
19:21:01u42pclppa.bin in is what one normally copies onto the disk, then the player takes it from there
19:21:44saratogadoesn't the wiki say that you need to setup more then just the firmware bin file to unbrick though?
19:22:50 Quit Judas_PhD (Quit: This is a quitting message)
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19:24:50TheSevenu42p: i doubt that dd'ing that will work
19:25:21u42piok, i am going to try to find someone who can dump from a working player
19:26:09u42pdifferent sizes of the internal space should not matter, i guess?
19:26:18u42pi do think there are two series of the clip+ though
19:26:18TheSeveni think they will
19:26:25TheSevenyou could try just partitioning and formatting it
19:26:50TheSevenor even just dd'ing /dev/zero to it first to see if there are lowlevel i/o problems
19:29:43u42pi am scared :)
19:30:35u42pi could also unplug it again and see what happens. that option would be gone if i write something to it. but then it might not be accessible again
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19:32:26 Quit SaurabhCE (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
19:35:29u42pat least i found something funny :)
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19:42:11u42phm, . if i found someone with a sansa clip+, would him running "dd if=/dev/sdsomething of=orig_image.bin bs=512 count=$((0xF000))" be what i need or is the recovery mode enabling some deeper access?
19:42:23 Quit benedikt93 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
19:42:27saratogahow much memory does the ClipV1 have available in codecs? is there some way to check short of a logf build?
19:42:39u42pi mean, would it help at all if he is not in recovery mode
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19:44:35TheSeveni have absolutely no idea
19:45:29saratogai thinke FS #11992 - Ogg files won't play is just that the clipv1 doesn't have enough ram for those weird files hes generating
19:48:43kugelJdGordon|: ping
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19:51:53amiconnsaratoga: Distortions, I guess.
19:52:10saratogado quiet passages have a hiss?
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19:56:56Buschelkugel: strrrike ! :)
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20:20:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:42:06kugeljhMikeS: if/when you have some spare can you have a look at please? I want to reorder the event so that the TRACK_FINISH event comes when track is really over (not already when the codec starts the next track)
20:47:04jhMikeSkugel: np. I was including that fix in the "playback v2" I've been working on. There's also the matter of not advancing the playlist until the switch.
20:58:01jhMikeSin the audio_stop_playback case, shouldn't it check if the codec moved along to the next track?
20:58:34jhMikeSor just send id3 instead
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21:10:46jhMikeSsetting id3 could maybe be better served by checking if filling is 'STATE_ENDING' (but that still leads in time)
21:13:46kugelplaylist jumps still too early with that patch
21:14:10 Quit stripwax (Quit:
21:18:02jhMikeSfixing that behavior isn't trivial
21:18:22jhMikeS (a small mod to the stop that might work better)
21:20:43jhMikeSreason is the codec has already moved the playlist rather than just peeking
21:25:04u42pwoah! i unplugged my sansa. and pressed power. and got rockbox
21:25:20u42pit froze on its "connected" screen after unplugging
21:25:46u42ptried to enter "recent bookmarks", now it hangs
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21:27:42u42pturned it off by holding power for some moments, now it plays dead again
21:28:30gevaertsu42p: that's the clip that was dead for a while?
21:29:08 Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:29:40u42pthe one with the 4mb partition showing sometimes. earlier i had access to the internal memory (4gb) but everything was corrupted. i could not acquire an original firmware (to try to write there) and so i unplugged it.
21:34:58 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
21:35:30gevaertsI wonder if there isn't some sort of hardware issue
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21:37:39u42pTheSeven suggested the same
21:38:34u42plooking back i had my microsd card corrupted many times but i always thought the early state of the rockbox port was too blame (i have 2.0 on it, iirc it was "unstable")
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22:00:53wodzTheSeven: ping
22:01:12TheSevenwodz: gnip
22:02:38wodzTheSeven: Is the code for exposing ramdisk on classic general or tightly connected to hardware?
22:02:57wodzand how big is the binary
22:03:17 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@
22:03:37TheSeventhe binary is like 15KB or something, and it's loosely tied to the hardware
22:03:47TheSevenit uses a rockbox-like driver architecture
22:04:01TheSevenyou can remove the lcd part altogether if neccessary, and just provide a USB driver
22:04:25TheSevenso it should run on AMSv2 with only some minor changes, as those use the same OTG
22:04:36 Quit mystica555_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:04:56TheSevenof course the hardware will need to be initialized, so if that isn't handled by a different stage yet, this might need some effort
22:04:59wodzI am (eventually) interested in porting this to rk27xx hardware
22:06:03wodzhmm 15kB is too big for my purpose I am afraid
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22:10:13ranmachanu42p: Sorry I couldn't help you much.
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22:10:43u42poh, i did not realise you were here
22:11:12*ranmachan lurks too much
22:11:37ranmachanAnd all my stuff is still in storage till I move out of this temporary apartment
22:12:30ranmachanMy clip+ is in a container in a warehouse somewhere ;)
22:12:40TheSevenwodz: if you strip it down you can get it way smaller
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22:13:05TheSeveni think 4KB might well be doable with some tweaking
22:13:29TheSeventhumb, UCL, remove LCD, possibly remove FAT16 and just dd the executable to it, ...
22:13:37TheSeventhere's lots of room for shrinking :)
22:13:38ranmachanu42p: I had the idea to hook an attiny to the jtag port on my clip+ that would bootstrap the system from uSD on power-on, but haven't gotten around to try and see if it's a workable idea yet :)
22:13:38EspeonEefiHi, I just upgraded from 3.7.1 to 3.8 on a Sansa Clip+, and it seems my .m3u playlists with relative filenames no longer work.
22:14:14u42pranmachan: good for you, that is way above my head, i think :P
22:14:38EspeonEefiThey fail with the error Playlist Buffer Full.
22:15:08u42pwell, let's see if i can get access to its memory again the next days
22:15:10ranmachanu42p: Did you try dd with the firmware image from the
22:15:38u42pranmachan: nope, could that work? we were not sure (rather negative) about it
22:16:22ranmachanI don't know, really
22:16:29gevaertsEspeonEefi: are those long playlists?
22:16:35ranmachanOn my the internal sd interface is completely hosed.
22:16:35u42pi myself am rather clueless, not even sure what kind of filesystem i had access to (ie, if it was that recovery stuff, the NAND? or the normal 4gb storage space)
22:16:58ranmachanI cound start rockbox via jtag, but it could only see the external uSD (after some patching to make it ignore the internal sd)
22:17:08EspeonEefiNo, they are not. And maybe the relativity is a red herring? Now some of them work, and some of them don't.
22:17:13ranmachanThe internal nand controller was hanging during the init phase
22:17:24EspeonEefi(By not long, I'm talking 50-100 range.)
22:19:04ranmachanu42p: Was your "head /dev/sdf | hexdump" from the internal flash?
22:20:01ranmachanThat looks like an FAT starting at 0000c00, but the fat-bootsector is missing (all 0)
22:20:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:20:57u42pranmachan: i have no clue. fdisk showed /dev/sdf1 to 4, but with question marks. i could not access them. so i tried sdf and that was what i got. i tried to dd all of it but got an i/o error soon (after ~2.5MB)
22:21:26u42pranmachan: everything started when i unplugged the device whilst rockboxutility was trying to install a new rockbox :]
22:21:52ranmachanSo, maybe your flash is somehow hosed too
22:22:15gevaertsEspeonEefi: when loading a playlist that error should only be shown when the number of items in the playlist is larger than the "max files in playlist" setting
22:22:32ranmachanI've read before somewhere that you can 'brick' (create bad sectors) some usb-sticks / sd-cards if you unplug the power at the wrong moment during writing...
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22:22:40gevaertsThat should never be that small though...
22:22:55ranmachanQuestion is, does dd always get I/O-Errors at the same point?
22:23:04ranmachanIf you do two dd dumps, are they identical?
22:23:19gevaertsEspeonEefi: can you check Settings -> General Settings -> System -> Limits -> Max Playlist Size?
22:25:45ranmachanMy theory would be that you interrupted a write at a bad point, which corrupted the boot sector and some other sector in the ftl so that it gives you i/o error for at least one sector
22:25:52EspeonEefiIt says 10000. Okay... this was weird; by opening the playlist in vim and resaving it, that fixed my problems.
22:26:08EspeonEefiSo this bug has been resolved, but the transient behavior was pretty odd.
22:26:17ranmachanYou should try dd with "conv=sync,noerror"
22:26:48EspeonEefi(When the load would fail, the counter on the WPS would show 1 out of 10000, and playback would fail to run.)
22:26:51ranmachanIf it then can read most of the flash except for a few sectors with read errors, that would be a good sign
22:26:55gevaertsThat;s weird
22:27:19ranmachanYou could then try to dd the image you read back to the device, which might fix the sectors with io errors
22:27:30EspeonEefiAll right, then. Thanks for your help, gevaerts!
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22:28:32wodzIs there an upper limit how big usb control transfer can be?
22:29:26JdGordon|kugel: pong
22:29:59TheSevenwodz: the maximum packet size is 64 bytes, but I don't think the number of packets is limited
22:30:35TheSevenwell, maybe by the hardware implementation... for the OTG used in the s5l87xx, that limit would be 32KB
22:31:55wodzand it comes from?
22:32:07wodzreceive buffer size?
22:32:13TheSeventhe width of the "maximum number of packets to expect" field
22:32:15gevaertswodz: do you want theory or practice?
22:32:30wodzpractice :-)
22:32:56TheSevenI'm happily sending 256KB transfers over bulk endpoints
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22:33:05TheSeven(32KB for USB1.1)
22:33:36wodzI can send a few kB without error but 10kB fails
22:34:07u42pranmachan: earlier i unplugged the player (since i switch off my pc overnight anyways), since then it is "dead" again. no chance for any access
22:34:13u42pi will try again tomorrow
22:34:43gevaertswodz: for control, you can probably get away with 32 byte transfers if you only want simple mass storage
22:34:57u42pbedtime for me, good night!
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22:37:33gevaertsFor bulk (again mass storage) you need to be able to deal with 64K transfers, unless you can afford to say it only runs under linux and people have to tweak some /sys values
22:38:32wodzgevaerts: no no, I am exploring recovery mode on rockchip device. It loads first image into iram which is supposed to configure sdram controller by means of control transfer. Than it runs the code loaded and waits for second control transfer which load some code at the begining of the sdram. The problem I am facing is that this second stage binary is limited for some reason to only a few kB.
22:38:54gevaertsAh, ok
22:39:13wodzI am wondering if this is because of transfer handler on the device or it is imposed by control transfer itself
22:39:29gevaertsThere's no fundamental reason for that
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23:21:20bluebrotherdoes building the Android app with Eclipse work?
23:27:29 Join Guest78370 [0] (genia.aine@
23:28:45 Quit n1s (Read error: Operation timed out)
23:31:14Guest78370Hi Guys!!! What projects will be participating in this year (GSoC 2011)?
23:33:02gevaertsGuest78370: that
23:33:29gevaertsGuest78370: that's still being discussed, although there's a draft list on the wiki. Remember that we haven't been selected yet though
23:35:13Guest78370Thank you!
23:37:16 Part Guest78370
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23:47:18Luca_Shello everybody! I am always more covinced that my problems with the database are related to uSD. Recap: FuzeV2, hangs while scanning music on random files. The very same files on the internal SD get scanned fine, they hang only when placed on the uSD. If I eject the uSD, the database immediately resumes scanning and completes fine. Is there anything I can do to diagnose uSD related problems?
23:51:36paulheugood evening all.. anyone notice that tols/ft2build.h is missing (as required by tools/convttf.c).. latest svn obv won't compile..
23:52:03 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called)
23:52:03 Quit paulheu (Quit: CGI:IRC)
23:52:08Luca_Spaulheu: are you sure? I had to do a make clean before building again since AA fonts got committed..
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23:52:12Luca_Spaulheu: are you sure? I had to do a make clean before building again since AA fonts got committed..
23:52:22 Quit paulheu (Client Quit)
23:52:28gevaertspaulheu: you need the freetype development stuff
23:56:15Luca_Smmmmm... panic uD init failed: -3

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