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#rockbox log for 2011-03-09

00:01:09 Part gbl08ma
00:02:25CIA-2New commit by sideral (r29548): autoresume: Manual: Clarify precedence rules for resume positions ...
00:06:41CIA-2r29548 build result: All green
00:07:22 Join Judas_PhD [0] (
00:07:53CIA-2New commit by sideral (r29549): Backport r29548: autoresume: Manual: Clarify precedence rules for resume positions ...
00:08:24JdGordonsideral: pretty sure there is no point backporting only manual changes
00:09:07 Join gbl08ma [0] (~gbl08ma@
00:09:37sideralJdGordon: Well, I wanted that minor manual error fixed in case there's a point release. And also, I wanted to try git commit on an SVN branch :)
00:10:57 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:16:02linuxstbJdGordon: What about packaging the default theme? Is the idea that you just copy the unprocessed files from the wps/ directory? Also (IIUC), your patch is now ignoring the size specified in configure for the SDL app, and hard-coding the default to 320x480?
00:16:40JdGordonlinuxstb: the patch needs syncing, the configured size would be the default
00:16:48JdGordonand yes to the shipped themes
00:17:35JdGordonof course for alot of the app platforms the screen size is static per device so the theme could be easily downloaded on first run
00:17:56JdGordonwasting 3MB of the android apk on images is not nice
00:18:18JdGordonthat ends up as 6MB of used space in /system on android
00:18:42linuxstbWe should really switch from bmp, at least for RaaA.
00:18:53JdGordonthats a completly different issue
00:20:02 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:21:08amiconnlinuxstb, gevaerts: I do have realpath installed though
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00:22:57 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia
00:24:35linuxstbJdGordon: Not really. It makes the idea of shipping a range of themes more feasible - RaaA targets may not all have network connections. And Rockbox could then always delete ones it knows it doesn't need.
00:25:26JdGordonyes, but that doesnt need to be solved right now
00:25:57JdGordonit just really annoys me that I need to keep rebuilding the sdlapp to try different themes in different lcd sizes
00:26:12JdGordonand most targets that would use the sdl app have no problems with disk space
00:30:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:36:37linuxstbJdGordon: Regarding the compiled-in images, how many are there? Is the USB logo used?
00:37:21JdGordonI tihnk only the boot image and usb, and yeah, i dont think usb is actually used
00:40:18JdGordonworst case currently is that the image is too small/big(so gets cropped)
00:44:58kugelbuggers, you can't easily terminate rockbox on android
00:45:18JdGordonand you've only realised that now!?
00:45:37kugelI just implemented it, but there's one problem
00:46:06kugeljava doesn't GC the .so, so it re-uses it on restart => bss is not zeroed and crash
00:46:35JdGordonsurely you can force the .so to fully reload?
00:48:21kugelinternets suggests the only way is with another native library to wrap dlopen/dlclose so you can explicitely unload
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00:51:34JdGordonwhat about fixing rockbox itself so it can do a sort of warm reboot without actually restarting?
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01:04:50sideraljhMikeS: Thanks for your comment re FS #12001. I had forgotten that you'd given me that advice before. I'll have a go at it later this week.
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01:37:50JdGordon[Saint]: did my email make things any clearer?
01:38:03*[Saint] nods
01:45:17saratogawhy can i often not see my posts in the forum?
01:45:28saratogathey'll show up if i reply to a thread, but i read the thread directly they're gone
01:45:57[Saint]are posts delayed for <X> period?
01:46:13JdGordonspam bug maybe?
01:46:31JdGordonI'm getting that bug also with one of [Saint]'s posts
01:46:59[Saint]lol, it hates me.
01:47:45saratogathe "last reply" thing on the forums show my post, but i can't actually see it except by replying to the thread
01:47:56saratogae.g here:,27393.0.html
01:48:11saratogai have the last post according to the forums and the reply screen, but not according to the thread when i view it directly
01:48:14[Saint]yeah, I've seen that before...I've never seen it happen with one of my own posts yet though.
01:48:19saratogano idea if other people can see it
01:48:26[Saint]The Forum is a sick puppy I think.
01:48:54JdGordonyeah, your last post isnt showing excpet in reply window
01:48:59JdGordonscorche|sh: ^
01:49:16[Saint]yup, not in "recent posts"
01:50:07saratogahey quoting it fixed it
01:50:14saratoganow you can see the post
01:50:39saratogaah now its gone
01:50:47saratogaI need to add ".new/spam,true.html#new" before I can see the whole thread
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02:03:22 Part toffe82
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02:14:34saratogahope this isn't a duplicate: FS #12002 - Inserting microsd during boot up freezes rockcbox on Clip+
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02:22:48kugelfor the logs, manually clearing the bss works (re: android restart issue)
02:30:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:34:11kugelIIUC the problem is that the service isn't garbage collect because android things it's more useful to keep it memory in case it's needed again
02:34:40kugelthat's what the "running services" tab in the apps system menu tells
02:34:47JdGordonyou could always cause it to segfault :)
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02:39:11kugelProcess.killProcess(Process.myPid()); owrks
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04:30:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:11:29[Saint]JdGordon: Have you had a chance to play with the pretty .sbs/.wps?
05:14:28[Saint]I've had a nosey at your test .sbs, and it seemed *fairly* straightforward, and I should be able to get a hang of it with your descriptions of how variables operate.
05:14:58[Saint]Don't be terribly surprised if I pester you whilst trying to get it working how I want it though ;)
05:18:54JdGordoni havnt
05:19:04JdGordoni bassically wanted to stab myself in the eye after looking at your sbs code :D
05:19:29[Saint]What's wrong with it?
05:19:42[Saint]Oh..."one letter identifiers are evel" :0
05:19:48[Saint]*evil too
05:20:29JdGordonthey are, but no
05:20:55JdGordonit isnt so straight forward to go from it to using variables to enable viewports
05:21:48[Saint]well, surely you knew I'd be wanting to enable a viewport with was the use case being discussed when you came up with the idea.
05:21:55[Saint]Is it not possible?
05:24:11JdGordonof course... no i mean it involves a fair bit of logic rewrite that i couldnt be bothered doing last night
05:24:57[Saint]Oh, right. Yeah, sweet. I parsed that totally the wrong way, my heart just sank a bit there.
05:25:06JdGordonyou also really need to figure out your viewport display priority ordering...
05:25:11[Saint]I thought " am I going to do it *now*!?!" ;)
05:25:18JdGordoniirc you start your vp enabling line with %?C<>
05:25:25[Saint]JdGordon: I cleaned that up dramatically.
05:26:19[Saint]that was something from SVN that I just cut the %Tl's out of and left because it just so happened to use the same identifiers I had.
05:26:47[Saint]Which I kinda neglected trying to get other things figured out.
05:30:23[Saint]Man...portrait/landscape switching would be *so* awesome in RaaA.
05:30:56[Saint]But I suspect even if we had it, we'd need to develop *two* themes for each target then, haha.
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06:30:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:45:27[Saint]JdGordon: I've been thinking about what you said re: my VP logic.
06:45:55[Saint]And, even though I've simplified it...I don't know what else to do other than begin the switch with %C
06:46:20JdGordonthat is ok as long as it doesnt get too deep with conditionals
06:46:27[Saint]It is, after all, the switch that governs what VPs are displayed when there's AA/no AA
06:46:45[Saint]it's just %?C<foo|bar> now.
06:47:12JdGordonactually.. why is %?C controlling the popup viewport?
06:47:22[Saint]It isn't, and never was.
06:47:41JdGordoniirc it indirectly is?
06:47:54[Saint]in SVN, yes.
06:47:57[Saint]Not on mine.
06:51:22[Saint]perhaps you got confused by one letter identifiers, and the fact that the SVN cabbie uses different identifiers for viewports that could easily share them.
06:53:10[Saint](it was something like <%Vd(A)%Vd(B)|%Vd(C)%Vd(D)> when it could have easily been <%Vd(A)|%Vd(B)> ...or something like this)
06:53:55[Saint]My current progress is at: <−− Gimme a yell if you need the images.
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07:18:55JdGordon[Saint]: thats not using the vars yet?
07:19:07*JdGordon will commit it tonight almost certainly
07:19:14JdGordonunless dynamic screen res takes too long
07:46:15[Saint]JdGordon: Not yet, no...I was kinda hoping you'd play with that theme to get them sorted but you just made your own test instead ;p
07:46:33[Saint]I'll have a play with variables tonight.
07:46:43JdGordonthat paste seems cleaner than the last version you gave me so after dinner maybe
07:47:30[Saint]Yeah, It just looked awful because VPs that could share identifiers weren't, for no apparent reason.
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08:00:10Buschelis someone disagreeing to close FS #11746, FS #11764, FS #11775 and FS #11846 based on the latest changes to buffering/playback/ATA_DMA? I would keep FS #11863 open for further issues.
08:06:19 Quit linuxguy4 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:06:20Buschelif noone objects I will close them tonight
08:06:25Buschelsee you later
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08:19:00[Saint] <−− JdGordon: I realised that the current/next track info can share an identifier when AA is true, but not when it's false, as when there's no AA the popup will only occupy the "next track info/no AA" viewport's space, so the current track info can still be displayed. Don't share VP identifiers for this case.
08:19:59[Saint]ah..hehe, I just discovered another fail. ;)
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08:21:11[Saint]yes, don't share the AA vp identifier with the aa true/next/current vps. *derp*.
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08:24:50[Saint] <−−- don't make silly assumptios about what will/wont be displayed, we always want to see AA if it's true and the current track info if AA is not true. fixes this.
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08:26:13[Saint](ToDo: viewports d and b need to be conditional to the popup VPs being true)
08:27:16Zagor[Saint]: 118 column lines?
08:27:33*[Saint] shrugs
08:27:54Zagorwith the rest of the file so neat and tidy, those lines look quite out of place
08:28:21[Saint]one big lump of code makes it very hard to read.
08:28:38[Saint]the spacing in this case is a little excessive, but..."meh".
08:30:05[Saint]Oh...derp, I thought you were referring to the vertical spacing comments added.
08:30:35Zagorah, no those are fine. I meant the long lines in the header and footer.
08:30:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:31:15[Saint]118 just so hapened to fit on my editor perfrectly, I didn't really account for those used to 80
08:32:13Zagor80 is a good length since it's a de-facto standard so a lot of systems are adapted to it. such as pastebin... :-)
08:32:32[Saint]but, that's all crap specific to my themes...all that would never make it into svn of course. It's just a PITA to strip it.
08:33:42Zagorbtw, is there a reasoning behind not positioning the prev/next/play/pause in the "standard" << || >> way?
08:34:46[Saint]Yes, it's called "not breaking the mold" ;)
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08:35:35[Saint]I thought about that, but I figured people might see it as "too weird" as all the other touch cabbies seem to have the layout I used.
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08:36:25ZagorI think quite the opposite. our way is "too weird" to everyone using any other touch UI. which, on raaa, is pretty much "everyone".
08:37:47Zagormy feeling is that the touch cabbies were made more to visually resemble the button UIs rather than be very good for touch
08:38:49Zagorso while you are now making an effort with it, I think we/you should rearrange those
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08:48:55Zagoroverall, I think the default raaa theme should strive to be "unsurprising"
08:49:34Zagorthat goes for raaa overall though, not just the theme
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08:53:50JdGordon[Saint]: ok, im makng a rule, I refuse to look at any skins which dont either 1) list what each viewport id is for in comments or 2) use sensible ids
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09:05:26[Saint]that whole theme has like...2 vps that aren't immediately obvious as to their function.
09:06:56[Saint]possibly only even one, the title before the vp is generally a giveaway, and I can only think of one vp that doesn't have one, but has a seperate identifier...and that one id immediately under a "track info" heading and has "next track:" in it as a param, so I thought it was obvious.
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09:46:09JdGordon[Saint]: sure, but scanning down 200 lines of gibberish isnt sometinhg i (and i imagine most people) enjoy
09:46:42JdGordonI dont think adding 1 line comment per conditinoal viewport at the top is too much to ask for
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10:15:45AlexP[Saint]: I haven't looked at the theme, but I agree with Zagor - we should go for <<||>> on RaaA - the default should be standard where possible
10:16:47[Saint]JdGordon: Are the VP titles honestly not enough?
10:17:52[Saint]# TITLE OF VIEWPORT /n %V(blah, blah, blah, blah)
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10:25:56[Saint]AlexP: Zagor: Ok...well, that either leaves the option of "shuffle repeat previous/rewind play/pause/stop next/fastforward" or "previous/rewind play/pause/stop next/fastforward shuffle repeat"
10:26:07[Saint]which seems...I dunno, "better"?
10:26:39AlexPI'd probably go for your second option, but I don't really mind
10:26:52[Saint]sounds good to me ;)
10:26:57AlexPhehe :)
10:27:01pixelmareminds me of the Rockbox widget which has become unusable to me now since I can't exit its non-scrollable settings screen anymore... dionoea ;)
10:27:06[Saint]It's an opinion at least, whereas I have none. ;p
10:27:25Zagor[Saint]: won't it be prettier to have shuffle and repeat each on one side of the central controls?
10:27:36AlexPoh yeah, or that
10:27:40Zagorso "S << || >> R"
10:27:45[Saint]pixelma: If you have HW buttons, you can use them to select the buttons offscreen and apply the widget still.
10:28:08[Saint]Zagor: Ok...I'll do that.
10:28:49JdGordon[Saint]: no because that 1 letter gets visually lost in all the code. it is 100000x easier to know what it does if there is a obvious comment block at the top saying what each is
10:29:00JdGordonand I';m fairly confident others will agree with me
10:29:00[Saint]pixelma: You can use the DPAD to scroll down the selections, the first offscreen selection should apply the widget.
10:29:35[Saint]pixelma: I agre it should scroll though, it's just not "unusable" (I first thought it was also)
10:29:52pixelmaI don't have a DPAD and don't find a button to accept
10:29:59ZagorJdGordon: I'm not sure I agree. having the comment close to the code is generally my preference.
10:30:12[Saint]Zagor: my theory.
10:30:17AlexPpixelma: Which size widgi
10:30:21[Saint]+that is, too.
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10:30:32pixelmaAlexP: all of then
10:30:47[Saint]AlexP: It's not the widget, it's the widget setup screen.
10:30:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:30:57AlexPah right
10:31:12[Saint]the recently added option for cover art pushed the "apply widget" button off the bottom of the screen.
10:31:49[Saint]dropping the way too large (and IMO not necessary) Rockbox logo from the widget setup screen would fix that nicely.
10:32:09[Saint]but being able to scrol on this screen would be the "correct" fix.
10:32:14AlexPI don't have that issue, 480x800 and I suspect the person making it didn't consider lower resolutions
10:32:23AlexPSo yeah, needs fixing
10:32:30AlexPBut I can see why it happened :)
10:32:36[Saint]AlexP: dionoea actually said he didn't test below that res.
10:32:49[Saint]It just didn't occur to him it wouldn;t scroll automagically.
10:33:47pixelmathat's what dionoea said already but I've been complaining a few times and a while though (as I already saw this issue before the one addition on my phone in landscape modus), now it has become more obvious
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10:35:06[Saint]yeah...on landscape it's always been completely screwy on my phone.
10:35:22pixelma[Saint]: I think I tried every possible button now - none let me scroll and none accepts
10:35:27pixelmanot even "enter"
10:35:34[Saint]I guess I should have spoken up, but at the time I noticed that RaaA still wasn't taking bug reports officially iirc.
10:36:13[Saint]pixelma: The RaaA code probably relies on there being a 5 button DPAD too much.
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10:36:44AlexP[Saint]: I'm not sure about that - the actual app doesn't need one, and this is just an oversight I'd say
10:37:12[Saint]I've no idea what to do about say, navigation and exiting plugins etc. on targets with no nice HW buttons.
10:37:42AlexPWell plugins yeah, but they haven't really been worked on at all
10:37:58*pixelma curses SE a bit for the actual choice of hw buttons... there's a keyboard but some standards are missing :\\
10:38:16AlexPI just don't go near the plugins, my phone only has three buttons total :)
10:38:34[Saint]I didn't realise the X10 didn't have a DPAD, I actually thought the X10 pro did.
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10:46:34dionoeapixelma: yeah, I'll fix it
10:47:30pixelmanice, thanks
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11:36:56dionoeahum, why are freetype headers required to build rockbox now ?
11:38:09Zagordionoea: for the AA font conversion tool
11:38:32gevaertsWe probably want to change things a bit to make it less mandatory though
11:39:04dionoeaisn't it an extra tool ?
11:39:14dionoeaor is it required to build rockbox?
11:39:45Zagordionoea: no, it's an external tool. hence gevaerts' comment.
11:40:22gevaertsWell, semi-external. If some day the default theme uses an AA font, it will be as required as convbdf
11:40:36gevaertsRight now though, it's to convert external fonts
11:42:47dionoeaAh, I thought that fonts were already converted in svn.
11:43:01dionoeaDo different targets use different formats?
11:43:36gevaertsNo, but the converted font format isn't suitable for editing
11:43:48Zagorno, it's rather a principle not to store "compiled" data in svn
11:44:12dionoeahum ok... I would have though that fonts were already somewhat compiled
11:44:49Zagoryes, I guess one could debate what the proper source format is
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11:46:35rasherwould be ttf, no?
11:47:14ZagorI don't know. is ttf the preferred format for editing a font?
11:48:20Tornefor outline fonts, more or less
11:48:29gevaertsI'd suspect ttf is pretty common as an interchange format
11:48:48rasheror... otf is it?
11:48:57gevaertsOf course there are those people who hand-write their fonts in postscript
11:49:01Tornetruetype vs opentype is somewhat arbitrary
11:49:04gevaertsrasher: isn't that *just* a new version?
11:49:08Tornemost ttfs *are* opentype fonts these dyas
11:49:10gevaerts☕Well, "just"
11:49:42rasherI assume freetype doesn't care
11:49:45Tornesome proprietary font editors have their own soruce formats but it's not clear those are valuable and theyr'e certainly not standard
11:50:01Torneall the "free" ones i know of operate directly on ttf/whatever
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12:22:26kugel_fwiw, otf2bdf also works will all ttfs I tried
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12:25:07Torneyes, otf is more or less a superset of ttf
12:25:10CIA-2New commit by dave (r29550): Don't automatically build convttf - it isn't (currently) required to build Rockbox.
12:27:23kugelI thought tools.make is used these days?
12:28:00gevaertsIt is
12:28:05gevaertstools/Makefile is separate
12:28:30gevaertsI think you need root.make though
12:28:57CIA-2r29550 build result: All green
12:29:24kugelwhy is that?
12:29:41gevaertsbecause that's where the list of required tools is declared
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12:40:53linuxstbDid I remove it from the wrong place?
12:49:25JdGordonor something shorter?
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12:56:43JdGordondamn, applying cleanly was too much to hope for, even after removing any android related changes
13:00:45linuxstbJdGordon: HAVE_DYNAMIC_LCD_SIZE seems fine to me.
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13:11:37dionoeapixelma: what resolution are you using on android ?
13:11:42JdGordonif we are using stdc99 I should be able to do char buf[size*4]; right?
13:11:48JdGordonfor stack vars
13:12:38dionoeakugel: do you already have pending modifications to handle headset plug in/out in the android app? (if not I'll have a go at it)
13:12:51kugelno i haven't
13:13:08JdGordonah, hmm.. not a stack var
13:13:22kugelJdGordon: should work
13:14:01JdGordonthe bmp.c changes in this patch are useless.... it calls buffer_alloc() without checking playback status
13:14:17JdGordonreplacing unsigned char buf[BM_MAX_WIDTH * 4];
13:15:00pixelmadionoea: 240x320 (the widget settings also work in landscape mode though)
13:16:06pixelmastill the "accept" is currently off screen even in portrait mode
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13:21:16Ej_PulsarGuys, is someone uses cowon d2(+) in car with rockbox?
13:22:58JdGordonyay! i killled the sim!
13:23:04JdGordondont get further than the boot spl;ash
13:28:49pixelmaEj_Pulsar: the D2(+) is probably one of the rare targets as the port is also quite incomplete if I remember correctly. Maybe your question is something generic though so you should just ask it
13:33:50Ej_PulsarI simply need large track name and big progress bar
13:34:19*JdGordon broke scrolling somehow
13:37:27pixelmaEj_Pulsar: if you have Rockbox installed already, you can just chose another theme or make your own. There should be plenty on as the D2 shares the screen size with the Ipov Video. You may need to install the font package too
13:37:45pixelmaIpod too
13:40:03Ej_PulsarThank you
13:52:04JdGordonwell, we knew this was coming.... dynamic screen size break pictureflow BADLY
14:00:28JdGordonhow do I #define FOO BAR if BAR gets #undef'ed straight after?
14:01:22JdGordoni obviously want FOO to have whatever BAR is defined to
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14:25:34JdGordonI've updated FS #11615 (dyn lcd size) if anyone is interested (scrolling is broken so if somoene wants to figure out why that would be great :D )
14:27:08sideralJdGordon: why do you need to #undef?
14:28:56JdGordonI dont think I do anymore, but only because i changed autoconf.h in a not so nice way
14:29:31linuxstbJdGordon: Why not #define MAX_LCD_WIDTH for all targets?
14:30:01sideralif you'd need to undef temporarily, you could use #pragma push_macro("MACRO_NAME")
14:30:20sideralthen undef, then pop_macro
14:30:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:31:53JdGordonlinuxstb: just to move the #ifdef mess?
14:33:42JdGordonhmm, just #define MAX_LCD_WIDTH LCD_WIDTH on static targets?
14:38:03JdGordondone, updating the diff and going to bed
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15:07:45hsa2i just have a sansa clip+ from a seller
15:07:53hsa2and there was rockbox installed
15:08:18hsa2i downloaded rockbox utility and uninstalled rockbox but now when i turn on my device i get file not found firmware error
15:08:37Tornefollow the instructions in the manual
15:08:43hsa2i tried to sansa's firmware updated but it doesn't work because firmware is already up-to-date
15:08:51hsa2Torne: what manual? uninstalling?
15:09:15AlexPThe Rockbox manual
15:09:18TorneRokcbox Utility should've told you that it can't uninstall the bootloader and told you you need to do it yourself
15:09:57hsa2Torne: i am already on that documentation but i have a problem
15:10:06hsa2i don't know how to copy an untouched firmware
15:10:28TorneThat page tells you
15:10:31TorneIt's the same as installation
15:10:39Tornejust don't patch it first
15:11:13TorneSansa's page where you can download the firmware also tells you how to install it
15:13:13hsa2Torne: i think i get it but can you please give url of sansa's page? i couldn't find it
15:13:20TorneIt's linked from the manual
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15:14:09hsa2i can't believe, i opened that page for like 20 times but all i saw was 'download firmware update application'
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16:52:26fuhrer_Hello all , can someone provide me the url for monitoring the recently reported bugs
16:53:31Zagorfuhrer_: if you want to monitor all bugs, subscribe to the rockbox-sf mailing list.
16:54:04Zagorif you are only interested in a few, watch them in flyspray and you'll get mailed updates
16:54:14gevaertsThere's also the rss feed
16:55:04Zagoroh, right
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18:24:14CIA-2New commit by dionoea (r29551): Add a scrollbar to the android widget's configuration activity.
18:24:37dionoeapixelma: ^
18:28:03CIA-2r29551 build result: All green
18:30:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:36:33dionoeahum kugel? widget buttons don't work here anymore :(
18:42:35dionoeaah ... seems to be a permission error
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19:04:10CIA-2New commit by dionoea (r29552): Looks like Android 2.3 is more strict when enforcing permissions. Explicitly declare allowed intents under the Service tag in AndroidManifest.xml. ...
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19:31:40CIA-2r29552 build result: All green
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19:46:59CIA-2New commit by dionoea (r29553): Ask for track information to be resent after creating a new widget.
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19:50:22CIA-2r29553 build result: All green
19:50:34dionoeaAnyone using git svn have a "Your branch is ahead of 'origin/master' by X commits." after a "git svn rebase" ?
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20:01:47pixelmadionoea: I'll try in a bit, thanks.
20:02:10flutterbudgetJust a random note, for anyone who happens to have the authority...on the main page, it should be made clear that both the v1 and v2 of the Fuze are supported by Rockbox. It wasn't clear to me until I actually downloaded Rbutil. Thanks!
20:02:26 Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
20:03:19kugeldionoea: yes, that's not unusual
20:03:42kugeldo a git pull afterwards to get rid of it
20:04:13kugelthe svn commits and git commits are counted slightly differently so git thinks you have work on your master that's not in upstream
20:04:21gevaertsflutterbudget: I was going to say I'd think it's clear enough, but then I thought about the fuze plus, which *isn't* supported...
20:05:25*gevaerts isn't sure how it should be phrased
20:05:46gevaertsThe same goes for the e200 and the clip. We don't want to make that list *too* long
20:06:44dionoeakugel: ah ok. thanks. I thought that it was handled by git svn rebase :/
20:07:56flutterbudgetI think if you simply added (v1 and v2) after the listing of the Fuze, it'd be quite clear...and it doesn't seem to me to take up that much space.
20:08:17pixelmagevaerts: for the Fuze+ it could be similar to the c200v2 I think
20:08:20gevaertsMaybe, but we'd need to add that (v1 and v2) to three more places
20:08:28gevaertsOn the same line
20:08:43flutterbudgetAaah. I see what you mean.
20:09:42flutterbudgetMaybe instead (unless otherwise noted, all versions are supported) on a second line after the whole Sansisk bunch?
20:09:45kugeldionoea: git svn rebase only fetches new data from the svn repo, not any git remotes
20:09:55*gevaerts thinks
20:10:24flutterbudgetI'm gonna have to leave now...but thanks for listening and such! Toodles!
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20:14:42gevaerts"Sansa c200 (not v2), e200 (v1 and v2) and e200R series, Fuze (v1 and v2, not +), Clip (v1 and v2) and Clip+" seems a bit long
20:14:52gevaertsAnd I'm not sure if the "
20:15:00gevaertsnot +" stands out enough
20:18:31pixelmamaybe (all) or (all, except ..)?
20:19:20gevaerts"Sansa c200 (not v2), e200 (all versions) and e200R series, Fuze (all versions except Fuze+), Clip (all versions) and Clip+"?
20:19:53pixelmalooks a bit chaotic still
20:20:09gevaerts"Sandisk: lots of players, but not all"
20:20:24gevaertsThat loses some precision
20:20:26bluebroth3rhow about putting the subscript into an element title so it shows up when hovering on the line?
20:20:38pixelmanot very obvious
20:20:59bluebroth3ruse the acronym tag?
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20:21:12pixelmaI think I wouldn't expect that I need to hover over something to get a complete list
20:21:14bluebroth3rthat usually shows up as dotted underlined
20:21:56gevaertsJust"Sansa c200 v1 (not v2), e200 v1, e200 v2 and e200R series, Fuze v1, Fuze v2 (not Fuze+), Clip v1, Clip v2 and Clip+"
20:22:28gevaertsInstant doubling of the number of supported DAPs :)
20:23:04 Quit leavittx_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
20:23:12pixelmagevaerts: Sansa - all versions except stated otherwise - c200 v1 (not v2), e200 and e200R series, Fuze (not Fuze+), Clip, Clip+
20:23:45gevaertsI wonder if might read "all versions" in there as "all sansas"
20:24:22pixelmawell, put at the end I was afraid some people wouldn't read all the way through
20:24:24krazykitseems like you'd have to mention "not the m series" as well
20:25:01gevaertskrazykit: And not the shake, and the connect, and the vision, ...
20:25:06gevaertsThat would never end :)
20:25:28pixelmathe Express...
20:26:35bluebroth3rpixelma: something like that?
20:26:54*bluebroth3r missed the commas between the models
20:27:00gevaertsHm, putting the "all versions except stated otherwise" at the end may seem to indicate that that's only about the clip+
20:27:35*gevaerts still doesn't like mouseover-only detail
20:27:36bluebroth3rsure, that's not really obvious either, but it's more obvious than not stating it at all :)
20:27:55*bluebroth3r accepts gevaerts not liking it :D
20:28:01gevaertsYay! :)
20:28:24pixelmagevaerts: "all of the following"?
20:28:57bluebroth3r"check Rockbox Utility for a complete list"? ;-)
20:29:30gevaertsYes, we should just stop providing lists :)
20:30:01pixelmabluebroth3r: the delay for the info appearing on hover is way too large in my browser and system, I first though it wouldn't work at all
20:30:21pixelmaand I don't like it for the above mentioned reasons
20:30:50gevaertsLet's provide a regular expression that matches all model names of supported sansas
20:31:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:31:49bluebroth3rbut if we list all devices we should also do that for the other players −− i.e. h120, ihp120, h140, ...
20:32:24bluebroth3rmaybe also "h120 with RTC mod, ..." ;-)
20:32:36gevaertsWe don't provide builds for that one :)
20:32:53*gevaerts likes iAudio
20:33:13bluebroth3rmaybe just add a link to TargetStatus and update that page?
20:33:18gevaertsNot only Color Sound, but also short unambiguous model names
20:33:35pixelmalike Meizu
20:34:03bluebroth3r"It runs on a wide range of players (detailed status):"
20:34:09gevaertsOK, you have to specify the brand :)
20:34:24gevaertsbluebroth3r: I'm not sure if that isn't a step backward
20:34:46bluebroth3rwhy? It just says that there is another list with more details
20:35:34gevaertsHow about "<li><b>SanDisk</b>: Sansa c200 v1 (not v2), e200 and e200R series, Fuze (not Fuze+), Clip and Clip+ (note: some sansa models come in several versions. Unless otherwise stated, all versions are supported)"?
20:35:53gevaertsLong, yes, but the list itself is still as concise as the current one
20:36:17gevaertsAnd I think it's unambiguous
20:36:32pixelmadionoea: the scrolling works now and I can set up a widget again
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20:37:59pixelmagevaerts: wouldn't it make more sense for a (v1 and v2) on the same line - without the extra note as I'm afraid some people won't read all through to the end - if you are already starting an extra list?
20:38:14bluebroth3rgevaerts: in that case we could also list all variants individually. Shouldn't be longer.
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20:41:20gevaertsThe list itself is still reasonably short, so the people who understand the way it's there now will still get it, while those who are confused by the current list get a clarification. I wouldn't be surprised when if we fully expand the list people will go "Oh, that's a lot of sansas. I bet the Sansa X is in there" and stop reading
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20:43:02Buscheldoes anyone have album art issues like described in FS #11997 ?
20:43:27Buschel(except the guy who reported it, of course)
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21:13:54kugelgevaerts: we mention the clip
21:14:09kugelclip+ explicitely, why should the fuze+ be implied?
21:15:25kugelimo the current list is just fine
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21:21:31gevaertskugel: because people have made that mistake in the past
21:21:43gevaertsI don't have a strong opinion on any of this
21:22:13kugelpeople will always make mistakes, no matter what list you present :)
21:22:24kugelmost make the mistake of not even reading it
21:22:28kugel(or many)
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22:25:58bluebroth3rhmm. Building convttf in cygwin with gcc3 works, gcc4 segfaults.
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22:30:33gbl08mahi everyone. Can somebody please explain me why the iPod Nano 1G has the A-B repeat option, while the nano 2G doesn't have it?
22:31:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:31:22gbl08maat least, the nano 1G simulator has this feature, and my real iPod Nano 2G doesn't.
22:31:36Tornebecause nobody has enabled it
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22:33:34gbl08maare you sure it's just that? the manual for nano 2g says it has this a-b thing, see
22:33:55gbl08maperhaps it's a mistake in the manual
22:34:50Tornenot sure if that is conditional in the manual or not
22:34:57Tornebut it's commented out in the ipodnano2g.h config
22:35:06Torneso it's not enabled in the code.
22:35:14gbl08mahmmm... is there any technical reason for this?
22:35:47 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Read the fucking binary.)
22:36:00Torneno idea, i'm afraid. not sure why it's conditional in the first place
22:36:30gevaertsNot all targets will have enough buttons?
22:36:40gevaertsThat doesn't sound like the reason in this case though
22:36:46gbl08mathe ipod nano2g has the same buttons as the first nano
22:37:24gbl08ma(and as almost all the modern ipods Rockbox supports anyways)
22:37:35Torneit's enabled for all ipods except the 6g, nano2g, and 1-3g
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22:40:58gbl08maAny idea why?
22:41:09gbl08maIf it was commented in the code...
22:41:58gbl08maIs there any way to search on the text of the SVN commits log message? Since the very first commit?
22:42:49gevaertssvn log|grep?
22:43:23gevaertsThat's very likely not the most efficient way to find what you want though
22:44:36Torneif you want to find out why it's commented you likely won't find it in the history
22:44:42Tornebecause it's probably been commented since the port was created
22:44:58Tornenormally lots of features are turned off to start with while porting, then things are turned on later
22:45:55gbl08mabut the nano2g is already marked as stable, and apparently nobody remembered about the a-b repeat feature!
22:46:08amiconnThe reason why it has been made optional is that back then the single-button mode of operation didn't exist yet, so only a few targets had enough buttons for A-B repeat
22:46:12Torneah no it's from r26230
22:46:16gevaertsIt's because config/ipodnano2g.h was not derived from ipodnano1g.h, but from one of the meizus
22:46:35gbl08maI guess there won't be a big problem if I try to uncomment these two defines and see what happens on the device, right?
22:46:35Torneer, not 26230 even
22:46:41 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:46:53Tornesorry my bzr revnos are out of sync
22:47:21gevaerts27483 is a red herring
22:47:28amiconnIt could probably be enabled unconditionally nowadays - needs checking
22:48:10bluebroth3rnice. $(CFLAGS) contains -Wall, and the gcc call also contains -Wall. Removing one of those "fixes" the segfault of gcc-4 on cygwin
22:48:20amiconnbluebroth3r: cygwin is in need of fixing the gcc mess anyway
22:48:42bluebroth3ramiconn: what did they do to gcc?
22:48:49amiconnCygwin gcc3 builds native windows binaries when -mno-cygwin is used, but gcc4 doesn't
22:49:26bluebroth3rbuilding convttf with -mno-cygwin fails for me
22:49:27amiconnIt even tells so. If host gcc is gcc4 on cygwin, wen need to use a mingw gcc wherever we're using -mno-cygwin right now
22:50:31bluebroth3rthat is with gcc-3. gcc-4 chokes on the double -Wall on the compiler command line :/
22:50:34amiconnIf convttf doesn't build with -mno-cygwin (on gcc3) this needs fixing - otherwise we cannot distribute a native windows version
22:50:47CIA-2New commit by gevaerts (r29554): *really* don't automatically build convttf
22:50:50kugelTorne: perhaps TheSeven doesn't even know it exists :)
22:51:11bluebroth3rI wanted to get it compile using MinGW. It does work, but the binary creates broken files.
22:51:46bluebroth3rthough I don't know if my freetype lib for MinGW cross compiling is broken or the code itself ...
22:52:33TheSevenkugel: seems like that
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22:53:10TheSeveni think it was linuxstb who originally forked the nano2g config, and i then forked that for the 6g
22:54:14kugeldionoea: I'm running 2.3 since a long time and I didn't need the .xml fixes
22:54:16CIA-2r29554 build result: All green
22:54:25sideralDo we still have trouble accepting GPL3'd plugins?
22:55:03sideralEven if they don't use Rockbox-specific interfaces but only (say) POSIX interfaces?
22:55:31kugelif shipped separately gplv3 should work
22:55:49gevaertssideral: we have no legal trouble accepting GPL3 plugins. It's a matter of whether we want the binaries to be v3 or not
22:56:11gevaertsI do suspect we'd want v3+ and not straight v3 if we ever do that
22:56:17gevaertsIt's a bit interesting :)
22:56:38sideralIn which regard??
22:57:50gevaertsWell, we're rather pure GPLv2+ now (although IIRC there are one or two files that may be GPLv2nonplus). That's a simple situation :)
22:58:06sideralkugel: I don't think anyone will ever ship a binary plugin separately. It's impractical: The ABI is too unstable, and there are too many targets.
22:58:14linuxstbgevaerts: Thanks for r29554 - my intentions were good...
22:58:50*linuxstb wonders if tools/Makefile is still needed/used
22:59:37gevaertslinuxstb: having a directly usable makefile there can be useful I think, but it *probably* could be a very short one that mainly includes tools.make
23:00:25sideralgevaerts: If we'd take a GPL3 app, then provide the POSIX or Linux interfaces it needs in pluginlib or some other glue code, do you think that would make that the glue code GPL3?
23:00:54gevaertssideral: That depends
23:02:17sideralA wise reply :)
23:02:28gevaertsI'd say that if there is any GPLv3 code somewhere in rockbox, and if you download a binary, and then you ask for the source in accordance with the GPL, the source you get it all GPLv3. However, if you just download the source, it will be mostly GPLv2+ and bits of GPLv3. Note that this is just my interpretation, which I thought of just now :)
23:03:03linuxstbsideral: I think we simply don't want to go there. We've already rejected espeak for being GPL3, and there was lots of talk about workarounds which never got anywhere.
23:03:42B4gdergevaerts: I agree with that reading
23:04:14gevaertsYay :)
23:04:54gevaertsIt basically means that as long as we don't decide on a wholesale move to v3, any code we have remains v2 for all practical purposes
23:05:06sideralWell, if you ask for the source for a GPL3'd plugin that uses a "standard" interface that's implemented by other systems as well, you'd get the source for that plugin under GPL3
23:06:19gevaertsYes and no, possibly
23:06:36gevaertsI don't think you can ask for the source of *part* of a binary distribution
23:07:10gevaertsAnd I don't think those interfaces are relevant at all for us
23:07:24sideralgevaerts: Hmm... I can ask for the source of some Fedora GPL3 program, and that wouldn't make all of Fedora GPL3
23:07:43siderallikewise with Rockbox plugins, methinks
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23:08:10gevaertssideral: I didn't mean "binary distribution" as in "linux distribution". Rockbox is really one program
23:08:26gevaertsIt's not "mere aggregation" to use the GPL term
23:08:49sideralThe interface question is relevant because if you program against a nonstandard interface, it can be argued that the implementation of that interface is a derivative work. Otherwise, you cannot.
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23:09:18gevaertsYes, but whether or not something is a derivative work *doesn't matter* for us
23:09:37gevaertsAll licenses in the rockbox source are compatible
23:09:57gevaerts(or they should be. If you find one that isn't, please file a bug)
23:10:10kugelgevaerts: except in one case :-)
23:10:41sideralgevaerts: Right now, you're correct. I'm just doing a thought experiment where we'd distribute a GPL3'd plugin
23:10:45kugelchip8 has actually an incompatible restriction
23:11:00gevaertssideral: it's still the case if and when we have GPL3 code
23:11:57gevaertsIt would matter (a bit) if someone asks for the source as allowed by the GPL, since that source (but *only* that source as sent to this person) would be v3, but since the source is available for download *anyway*, that person can get a bit-identical copy that still has the original licenses
23:12:32sideralgevaerts: That's right. But someone might want to license the rest of the code (or a subset thereof) under GPL2, and I'm arguing that still would be possible
23:13:03gevaertssideral: why wouldn't that be possible?
23:13:24gevaertsIf you download a source file that says it's GPLv2+, it's GPLv2+
23:13:49sideralIn case the Rockbox proper is interpreted as a derivative because it contains glue code to accommodate a GPL3 plugin
23:13:52gevaertsIt's only when you build the thing and it happens to contain v3 code that the resulting binary is v3
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23:15:11gevaertsAgain, all of this *only* matters for binaries, and if you want to reuse part of our code you get the source, not the binaries
23:15:16sideralthe source would not fall under v3 if it's considered derivative?
23:15:25gevaertsWhy would it?
23:15:45sideralthat was my interpretation of the GPL
23:15:47gevaertsThe source would be v3 if it's obtained as a result of an "official" GPL source request
23:16:06gevaertsBut then don't do that and just download the thing
23:16:23sideralif you distribute source or binary of a derivative work, the viral nature of the GPL kicks in
23:16:38gevaertsPlease cite the relevant paragraph :)
23:16:53sideralNot today :)
23:17:08sideral(need to go offline for a few mins, be right back)
23:18:47gevaertsAnd defining "derivative work" as "linked statically and/or not using a standard interface" is really fancyful anyway
23:19:51*gevaerts stops discussing this. It's not interesting!
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23:36:24sideralgevaerts: No? I could go on and on ;) but I'll respectfully stop here as well
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23:40:20bluebroth3rok, IÃ've now built a convttf with MinGW natively. Still produces broken files. Now to find a freetype based demo that is known to run to verify it's not a freetype issue
23:42:38 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.53=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
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23:57:50bluebroth3rhmm. Building the same test program for windows and linux has different results in the output of the binaries. Bad.

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