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#rockbox log for 2011-03-13

00:01:20ZagorI'm not getting any logf output in adb logcat.
00:02:00Zagoruh, maybe because I forgot to enable it :)
00:04:03 Quit stripwax (Quit:
00:07:13salty_horsesaratoga, reported: thanks for the help
00:09:10Zagorumm, no. still no logf. kugel, is there something special I need to do?
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00:30:30 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
00:31:09 Part Zagor
00:32:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:04:00 Quit simonrvn (Quit: see ya - n'multes)
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01:14:46[Saint]pixelma: still having trouble compiling an .apk?
01:14:55[Saint]tools version was bumped a few days ago.
01:17:23[Saint]pixelma: r29561 <−−- bump SDK version to SDKv11
01:19:42 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving)
01:22:54 Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
01:31:25*bluebroth3r wonders why the SDK version was bumped
01:34:20 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
01:34:29[Saint]I never know if it's "it's the new one, we should be using it" or "we actually utilize something that is only available in this version".
01:35:29bluebroth3rif it would be the latter it wouldn't run on 2.2 anymore. AFAIK SDK 11 is Android 3.0
01:36:26pixelma[Saint]: I saw and actually suspected that as the error message was showing something with a .jar file of the SDK - just didn't have a chance to figure out what I need to do about it (and I also needed a manual reconfigure, make reconf wasn't enough for some reason)
01:37:09bluebroth3rI figured that for some reason something didn't like my ANDROID_* variables to point to symlinks.
01:39:24pixelmaif what bluebroth3r says is true, I wouldn't be able to run such an apk anymore o.O
01:40:12pixelmaor maybe I misunderstand
01:42:26 Join Quazgaa [0] (
01:42:32Quazgaaomg how do i turn off playlists
01:42:45Quazgaathats the whole reason i run rockbox in the first place is to get away from that garbage
01:42:50bluebroth3rQuazgaa: you can't.
01:42:57bluebroth3rRockbox is completely playlist based.
01:43:10Quazgaanothing good ever comes from upgrading stuff
01:43:12Quazgaathatll show me
01:43:23bluebroth3rbut you don't need to have playlists on your player −− if you're using the dynamic playlist only its not an issue at all
01:43:28pixelmaI don't understand what you really want though
01:43:50bluebroth3rQuazgaa: you should really read up on the manual on this, especially the chapter on playback and playlists.
01:43:58Quazgaai want the old functionality where you just browse your files and select one and it plays it and then keeps playing the rest of the files in the directory
01:44:04bluebroth3rseriously, I almost never use playlist and it never got into my way
01:44:18bluebroth3rso what? You can do that.
01:44:26Quazgaaok how do i do that
01:44:27bluebroth3rit's basically what I'm doing since years
01:44:40bluebroth3rjust play the file ...
01:44:51Quazgaawell thats how rockbox has always been
01:44:56Quazgaai hadnt upgraded rockbox in a while so i did
01:44:58bluebroth3rI really don't get your problem. That's the default behaviour of Rockbox unless you're using the database.
01:45:01Quazgaaand now i cant get out of this playlist crap
01:45:20pixelmaQuazgaa: that's still there. Maybe you accidentally changed your show files option to 'playlists!
01:45:28bluebroth3rthis behaviour hasn't changed. Period.
01:45:33Quazgaai dunno
01:45:40*bluebroth3r considers stopping to respond
01:45:41pixelmathat should have been a ?
01:45:46Quazgaaother options mysteriously changed when i upgraded
01:45:51Quazgaalike party mode magically turned on
01:45:59Quazgaatook me a while and some taling on this channel to figure it out
01:46:09bluebroth3rwhat was the old version?
01:46:16Quazgaalike a year old probably
01:46:37bluebroth3rhmm, then that definitely shouldn't happen. We had settings in file back then.
01:46:55Quazgaawell i was talking to rockbox people on here about it at length
01:47:01Quazgaaas far as party mode magically turning on when i upgraded
01:47:08Quazgaathey decided it happens sometimes when upgrading from old versions
01:47:14 Quit mshathlonxp (Quit: Leaving)
01:47:24pixelmacheck your file view setting then
01:47:26Quazgaaso i guess i just need to check more options
01:47:38Quazgaai think i did
01:47:47Quazgaaoptions were files playlists, music, all
01:47:48bluebroth3ryou can always reset to the default settings by deleting /.rockbox/config.cfg
01:47:49Quazgaaor something right?
01:47:52Quazgaaso i chose files
01:48:11Quazgaaat least now i can browse my files
01:48:14Quazgaabut i cant play them
01:48:19Quazgaajust add them to a playlist
01:48:27Quazgaaand even then nothing seems to happen
01:48:30bluebroth3rwhy can't you play files?
01:48:48bluebroth3rwhat happens when you try to do so?
01:49:30Quazgaai select a file and it says delete dynamic playlist?
01:49:37Quazgaaand then nothing seems to happen if i select yes or no
01:49:54bluebroth3rno splash message?
01:49:55pixelmastill party mode? I'm actually not sure about all the details involved
01:50:05Quazgaai made sure party mode was off
01:50:23bluebroth3rparty mode shouldn't be able to delete the dynamic playlist, just add tracks
01:50:42Quazgaaoh wait
01:50:43*bluebroth3r suspects something to be broken with the installation
01:50:49Quazgaai was hitting right instead of select
01:50:57Quazgaaok so now that i actually deleted dynamic playlist or whatever
01:51:00Quazgaaold functionality is back
01:51:01*Quazgaa whew
01:51:14bluebroth3rnot old functionality is back. It never was gone
01:51:26Quazgaayou know what i mean
01:51:34bluebroth3ryou might want to turn "warn when erasing dynamic playlist" off
01:51:41Quazgaaah ok
01:51:49Quazgaawell thanks for help i need to start dinner
01:51:54[Saint]pixelma: how did you set up the SDK and tools initially? with the commandline or the UI?
01:52:00Quazgaawanted to put on some music and couldnt even figure out how so i was tearing my hair out
01:52:12pixelmayou can also turn this splash off if you are sure you are fine with potential playlist loss
01:52:12[Saint]either way, you pretty much just do it again.
01:52:14sideralQuazgaa: Please consider resetting to default settings by deleting the config file
01:52:39sideralI've had a strange enabling of options once as well
01:52:59sideralEven resetting them manually didn't work; had to delete the config file
01:53:12sideralthis was in a recent simulator build
01:53:27pixelma[Saint]: I didn't for the way I build those currently and wouldn't be able to ;)
01:53:37bluebroth3rthat's realy strange. I never had such issues when updating
01:53:48sideralI haven't been able to reproduce this; maybe you should keep a copy of the cfg file and file a proper bug
01:53:59pixelmaor allowed to...
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01:54:32sideralbluebrother: I was quite surprised as well. I was wondering why playback paused every 2 minutes :)
01:54:46[Saint]sideral: bluebroth3r: it's a longstanding bug.
01:54:57[Saint]I have NO IDEA how it works...and drove myself insane chasing it.
01:55:18[Saint]updating can cuase a perfectly valid .cfg to "go nuts" TM
01:55:24sideralthe reason was that something turned on car adapter mode, and the sim simulated removing of the power cord every two minutes
01:55:45pixelma[Saint]: also, is it true that I wouldn't get a working apk for my Android 2.1 anymore?
01:55:58[Saint]pixelma: no.
01:56:14sideralI debugged this as far as verifying that the cfg file read routine was writing 0xCB or somesuch into a bool variable
01:56:20[Saint]At least...I do not believe so.
01:57:24pixelmaI'll wait a bit for more information - time for sleep anyway
02:00:13[Saint]sideral: the case I was chasing was the strange enabling of party mode on some targets that updated from 3.6 to 3.7/.1
02:01:54[Saint]a .cfg that was perfectly valid for .3.6 somehow enabled party mode (which wasn't enabled in the 3.6 .cfg) in 3.7/.1 for some people...I remember seeing other weird variants of it with other config settings also.
02:02:25sideralSaint: Sounds like it could be reproducible
02:02:41[Saint]You'd think so...
02:02:46sideralPerhaps try downgrading / upgrading, then file a bug report?
02:02:51[Saint]I tried and tried and tried...
02:03:20sideralsadly, I haven't kept the cfg file that broke things for me
02:03:41sideralas I was chasing another problem at the time
02:04:04bluebroth3rhmm. Sounds like unit tests could become helpful here :)
02:04:11[Saint]I only have the info I have about it from talking to people in IRC that came in with weird problems thta resembled it, so I took a chance and suggested backing up the .cfg, there was only one case where I managed to narrow the exact setting causing the rouble.
02:04:36[Saint]but, no idea *why* it was, it the .cfg was essentially fine (it was party mode in this case)
02:05:06sideralbluebrother: Unit tests would be pretty cool, but
02:05:48sideralI don't see Rockbox be sufficiently refactored to get rid of cyclic dependencies any time soon
02:05:59[Saint][14:03] <sideral> sadly, I haven't kept the cfg file that broke things for me <−− that's the thing :/ I've only found one person that experienced it that did have the failing .cfg to play with.
02:06:09[Saint]but, it wasn't very interesting.
02:06:47bluebroth3rsideral: well, isn't that a reason to start? ;-)
02:06:56bluebroth3rbut yeah, I see the problem
02:07:13sideralbluebrother: I've gone through the process of levelizing (removing cyclic dependencies in) another software project to make it more unit-testable, and it was a major effort
02:08:12sideralBut one thing that helped was a build check that tested that the number of cyclic dependencies did not go up. That made the process incremental
02:08:25sideraland easier to accept for the other developers :)
02:08:35bluebroth3rsideral: sure, someone on his own won't be able to get that done
02:08:52bluebroth3rand cyclic dependencies are evil anyway :)
02:09:19sideralIt's hard work to get rid of them
02:09:44sideralBut I repeat myself ;)
02:11:08sideralSaint: Let's hope that it's reproducible for Quazgaa, and that he files a nice bug report :p
02:11:42sideralNeed to go offline now. Cheers to all!
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02:16:33[Saint]sideral (logs): bluebroth3r: more possible sillyness (or, an accidental keypress (not as interesting)) with .cfg files immediately after an update:,27425.msg178918.html#msg178918
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08:09:05 Part Quazgaa
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09:21:56*n1s has now installed iloader with the included rockbox version on his classic and wonders how to get files on there
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09:25:48[Saint]n1s: USB no worky?
09:26:15n1s[Saint]: is usb in ockbox supposed to work?
09:26:33[Saint]it is, yes...there's no, it has to.
09:26:48[Saint]this in linux OS?
09:27:26n1srb shows the usb screen and then nothing happens
09:27:33[Saint]I'm suspecting EHCI it a lot of effort to get near a windows OS?
09:28:00n1sand it doesn't exit the screen if i disconnect
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09:28:14[Saint]wow, ok...that's odd.
09:28:36[Saint]I don't think I've heard of that yet, not mounting in linux isn't entirely new though.
09:28:55n1si'd need to reboot to use windows bu the problem is more that all my music is on an ext4 fs so i'd need to copy it to the windows partition first which is already cramped for space
09:29:43n1si'll try to reboot and put a current build on there
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09:30:43[Saint]well, right off the bat I suspect the EHCI sillyness that seems to be triggered here somehow, various other devices refuse to mount for some people using linux which is, I believe, the same issue.
09:30:53[Saint]TheSeven is really "the man" here, though.
09:31:32n1spehaps, this does really make it unusable for me though :(
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09:33:38[Saint]is it possible for you to unload the EHCI module?
09:34:37[Saint]iirc, some people had success there...I'm not even sure what exactly the bug is, or how it's being triggered.
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09:42:31n1sno luck, doesn't mount in windows either
09:42:54[Saint]that's weird.
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09:43:25*bertrik will look at the list of current issues with AMSv2 devices today
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09:57:10bertrikI would very much like the ability to search in flyspray by player type
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10:32:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:34:23JdGordon|[Saint]: ping?
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10:35:29JdGordon|hows your sbs going?
10:35:44JdGordon|trying to decide if i should work on skin vars or dynamic screen size toinght
10:35:54JdGordon|(with the aim of getting at least one commitable tonight)
10:36:34[Saint]the latter I'd say. I'll probably poke my nose into the theme again tonight, but the changes regarding volume require amajor rework.
10:36:45[Saint]*a major
10:38:03[Saint]as now I need to cut the volume icon/tab out of the picture...the latter isn't so bad, as it removes some complexity, but it messed up my symetry pretty bad.
10:39:31bertrikok, I compiled a list of current issues specific to the AMSv2 port - it turns out to be surprisingly long ... :|
10:42:25JdGordon|anyone awake know the scroll engine?
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11:04:13JdGordon|thomasjfox: empty submenus really should be hidden, but that isnt so simple (dynamic menus....) protecting against NULL is a simple and doable fix...
11:04:45thomasjfoxJdGordon|: I'm just not how sure how the fix should look like exactly
11:05:09thomasjfoxJdGordon|: returning from do_menu looks wrong to me
11:05:48*JdGordon| has a look
11:07:28JdGordon|ah, haha stupid repro :p
11:07:39JdGordon|pressing OK inside an empty submenu? bah
11:08:25thomasjfoxI think the same is true for ACTION_STD_CONTEXT
11:08:39[Saint]JdGordon|: thomasjfox: while you're in that neck of the woods...what about submenus with only one entry? they exist in a few places on different targets, and it seems to me that if that is the case, it should just be the default and not even offer an option.
11:09:04JdGordon|thats bad...
11:10:49*thomasjfox found a way to severly disrupt the theme/seek code on the Pandora. Will retry with the SDL app.
11:11:28thomasjfoxVery heavy seeking on 1h+ track leads to a suddenly lock up of the seek slider
11:19:27JdGordon|dont do that then! :p
11:20:03thomasjfoxI didn't do that myself :o)
11:20:10thomasjfoxRockbox in the news:
11:22:52*bluebrother wonders how much work it would be to make convttf compile with Visual Studio
11:24:52CIA-2New commit by bertrik (r29577): Fix FS #11894 - Sansa Clip+ Volume Buttons don't switch when Upside Down is activated
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11:26:52thomasjfoxthe seeking issue is not present on current SDL app / maemo build. Will retry with a new build later on
11:28:18CIA-2r29577 build result: All green
12:02:44bluebrotherI'm wondering if there is something different with freetype on Windows. I've managed to build a convttf on Windows using MSVC2005. It runs, but loading the font produces garbage.
12:05:31bluebrotherand after loading such a broken font Rockbox gets really slow. Well, the UI that is.
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12:09:05kugelthomasjfox: give this guy track skipping with l and r already :-)
12:10:17thomasjfoxkugel: The idea is not that bad ;)
12:10:29kugelHmm not so quick, the other guy would hate us then
12:10:41thomasjfoxShould be a config option
12:10:52thomasjfoxright now I'm looking into the SDL audio issue
12:11:21kugelyea, except configurable buttons are a controversial topic here :-)
12:11:27thomasjfoxI'm not able to reproduce on my workstation, sample buffer size should be big enough already (2048 samples)
12:12:28thomasjfoxkugel: Have you tried using a newish Audi car recently? Configurable buttons sucks :o)
12:12:46kugelno I haven't
12:13:31bertrikthomasjfox, does it have an upside-down mode?
12:14:04thomasjfoxbertrik: The car or the pandora port? ;)
12:14:29kugelthomasjfox: perhaps a bug in pandoras sdl?
12:14:58thomasjfoxkugel: Either that or maybe some kind of audio conversion is going on (44khz -> 48khz) which messes things up
12:15:25thomasjfoxkugel: I'll retry with the latest code + some debug printfs
12:16:29thomasjfoxkugel: btw: I got meego up and running on qemu and on my n900
12:17:19kugeland will you now tackle an raaa port to it?
12:17:49thomasjfoxyep, that's what the rpm .spec file is for ;)
12:18:16thomasjfoxwill share a lot of SDL code like the pandora at first
12:19:06thomasjfoxI'm also looking at moving the HAL battery monitoring out of the maemo code as it's the same for the pandora and probably for meego
12:20:06thomasjfoxWill have more time to work on this as I just canceled my big vacation for this year (don't guess which country)
12:21:07bertriksaratoga, what do you think about the delays suggested in FS #11870 for the AMSv1 and AMSv2 sd drivers?
12:22:20bertrikI hate to add arbitrary delays to driver code to make things work, but on the other hand I can't really fix this myself in any other way because I can't reproduce it.
12:26:49bertrikHow about adding the delays anyway and putting a comment with it referring to FS #11870 ?
12:29:09bluebrotherdoes the dynamic screen size patch allow resizing during runtime? Would be nice to be able supporting display rotation
12:32:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:35:57TheSevenn1s (for the logs): I've seen a similar problem before. Raising Vcore by 0.025V fixed that, so you might have caught a bad piece of silicon...
12:40:05TheSevencan you try updating to
12:40:09TheSeventhat one has a bit higher Vcore
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12:46:27kugelbluebrother: no, it does not allow that
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12:56:53CIA-2New commit by jethead71 (r29578): Use ringbuf_add in buffering when incrementing for initial allocation of non-wrapping data. The result of the shortcut would have been wrong if the ...
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12:58:42JdGordon|thomasjfox: it should be possible to gracefully back out of the menu if it is empty but I wont really be able to look into it till wednsday night (more likely not till mid next week)
12:58:53JdGordon|so if noone fixes it by them remind me :)
13:00:26CIA-2r29578 build result: All green
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13:04:07thomasjfoxJdGordon|: I can live with that :) Thanks for looking into this!
13:04:29thomasjfoxJdGordon|: I did take a quick look a the dynamic screen size stuff
13:04:48thomasjfoxJdGordon|: Didn't see nothing obviously wrong in there
13:09:23JdGordon|ok, apparently I'm confusing people... I'm going to be afk monday night and all tuesday, wed night will be the earliest time anything could be commited by me, next weekend I am almost certainly AFK so dont really expect much of anything from me till after the 22nd...
13:09:41JdGordon|but if i get 5min to commit i just mind if there arent any outstanding issues
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13:33:05JdGordon|slight random brainfart... im fairly sure I could make the themeing stuff handle screen resizing without too much effort (going portrait <-> landscape)
13:46:04bluebrothergrmbl. Why does Qt Creator choke on the quoting when passing variables to sub-Makefile?
13:47:02CIA-2New commit by thomasjfox (r29579): Pandora port: Fix SDL detection, pkg-config is not supported
13:47:40JdGordon|bluebrother: any chance you'd like to try and fix the theme editor so it doesnt popup 2 empty grey windows on startup?
13:48:00bluebrotherit pops up two empty grey windows on startup?
13:48:06bluebrothernever heard of that. Which platform?
13:48:10JdGordon|you dont get that?
13:48:48bluebrotherwill check later, currently trying to figure the Rockbox Utility issue with creating voice files on Windows
13:49:02JdGordon|damn :p its one of the reasons i stay away from it
13:50:27bluebrotherWindows or Rockbox Utility? ;-)
13:50:41JdGordon|the theme editor....
13:51:37bluebrotherheap block was modified after it was freed. Doesn't sound good :(
13:52:06CIA-2r29579 build result: All green
13:53:31gevaertsbluebrother: remove all free() calls. Problem solved :)
13:54:06bluebrothergevaerts: hmm, then I need to overload all destructors in Qt classes :)
13:54:35gevaertsServes you right for using C++ :)
13:55:07bluebrotherthis playback breaks when screen turns back on issue is really annoying
13:55:29bluebrotherwell, wasn't me who started using c++. The wxwidgets version also was c++ :)
13:59:03bluebrothernevertheless I wouldn't want to write a GUI application on a PC in C.
14:00:33JdGordon|yeah, but c++ wouldnt be close to my first choice either
14:01:13bluebrotherwhat other options do you have if you want to support three different platforms and need to use platform specific OS functions?
14:01:57JdGordon|"dont write gui apps for PC" :p
14:02:44*bluebrother goes throwing up
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14:36:31gevaertskugel: do you have some idea on which of those unfinished ideas on the mailing list should be put on the ideas pae?
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14:38:42kugelall of them? :)
14:41:36gevaertsZagor questioned the native widgets yesterday
14:44:46bertrikgevaerts, what kind of widget do you mean, an android ui element, or an android application 'shortcut'?
14:44:54gevaertsUI elements
14:45:04gevaertsi.e. "native GUI"
14:45:39gevaertsI'm starting to think that none of those ideas on the mailing list are finished enough to even use as "unfinished ideas
14:46:23gevaertsExcept maybe the various "Database playback misses feature X compared to file browser playback" ones
14:47:52thomasjfoxkugel: The pandora audio issue is gone. Either it was tools/configure picking up the wrong SDL version/compile flags or something fixed in HEAD
14:48:18kugelwell as I see it, unfinished ideas implies that a) there needs to be addional thinking and discussion before applying for it and b) that this additional discussion might end up rejecting the idea in the end
14:49:53gevaertsYes, but I'm not sure if we want ideas that have a reasonable chance of being rejected on the list
14:51:29[Saint]wouldn;t that be "all unfinished ideas" then?
14:53:36[Saint]point b of kugel's statement seems to suggest so. how could one know beforehand the likelyhood of an idea being rejected based on the idea expanding beyond what it is now?
14:55:08gevaertsSome ideas have been simmering for long enough that we know more or less what to expect. They just haven't been written up in enough detail
14:55:23[Saint]Hmmm, good point.
14:56:56gevaertsIt's still possible to suggest a "wrong" solution for those of course
15:00:09gevaertsThings like "Fix database vs file browser inconsistencies" is one of those. People who've been involved for a while all know what that means, I don't think anyone objects to this, but I haven't seen a concise and clear description of what it involves
15:01:14bertrikCan we still submit ideas, or has the time window closed on that?
15:01:48gevaertsbertrik: we can, but they might not be taken into account by the google people to rank us
15:02:02kugelyou can always submit ideas, they needn't even be on the ideas page
15:02:20kugelbut if you want google to see them they should :)
15:03:35gevaertswell, that's the point :) Google might not see them any more now (they were going to work during the weekend too when looking at org applications, so they may have looked at ours already), but students will see them
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15:06:34gevaertsSo if you have worked out ideas that you believe are not controversial, please put them on the ideas page!
15:06:52CIA-2New commit by thomasjfox (r29580): Prepare new Pandora .pnd build
15:07:22gevaertsAnd if you think you're not unsuitable to mentor some projects, please also add your name for that
15:08:07bertrikgevaerts, I think I'll skip on being a mentor, I'm busy enough already with my day job
15:10:25CIA-2r29580 build result: All green
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15:13:35bertrikthe idea I had is to make it possible to use ipod accessories on non-PP ipods (nano 2g and ipod classic). Work to be done is to refactor the iap code, decouple the serial port interrupt from the iap code, create a simple serial port api, understand & document the iap autobaud code, and generally make it work. Final result is a working peripheral on a non-PP ipod and having the iap autobaud code documented. This might not be enough work for a
15:13:36bertrikgsoc though.
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15:19:05bertrikOTOH, I don't know what constitutes "enough work" for gsoc. If google is fine with it and it helps rockbox, I'm fine with it too.
15:19:50thomasjfoxkugel: Crap, the SDL audio issue is not solved. Just doesn't seem to appear every time. Time for an alsa backend
15:20:34gevaertsIs that enough work, and how risky is it?
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15:26:24bertrikEntirely doable I think, if apple can make it work, so should we. The student would need a non-PP ipod + accessory, provided by rockbox devs. The only really new code would a serial port driver for the s5l870x, the rest is restructuring/refactoring.
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15:29:14bertrikActually, I wouldn't mind working on it myself, if I had the hardware.
15:29:17gevaertsApple has documentation
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15:36:36n1sTheSeven: i don't get anything on either linux or windows when trying umsboot from the iloader menu so i don't know how to update
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15:39:18TheSevenhuh? how did you install it then?
15:40:06n1si just followed the instructions here and that worked
15:40:47TheSevenyeah, but that stopped working after you installed it? or what's going on?
15:41:45n1sah, i forgot to try the dfu thing, that should work then? neither rockbox usb nor iloader umsboot does
15:42:01TheSevenyeah, that's both after configuring the voltages
15:42:07TheSevendfu-based umsboot should work though
15:42:17n1sok, i'll reboot again then
15:42:23TheSevenwait a second
15:42:31TheSevenwhile it's in the iloader menu, does it show up in lsusb?
15:43:26n1snothing in dmesg either
15:43:37TheSevenok, so the usb core is completely down
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15:43:48TheSevennow try updating through DFU and check if things get better
15:44:04n1syeah, i'll need to reboot to windows
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15:50:00bluebrotherhmm, the Windows version of espeak can not be accesses via SAPI.
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15:56:31n1sok, so installing the new iloader through dfu worked but umsboot still gives nothing in either linux or windows and now rockbox dies with "ATA error -1 press ON to debug"
15:56:53pixelmabluebrother: could be for a long time already (as long as I remember)
15:56:57TheSevennow that's strange
15:57:00n1spressing any button prins out the gpio ports and usec timer
15:57:23n1swaith error -11
15:57:40TheSevencan you retry? i've seen those occasionally as well, but not during the last weeks
15:57:42bluebrotherpixelma: might be but I've never noticed. I rarely use espeak on Windows anyway, so ... ;-)
15:58:10CIA-2New commit by bluebrother (r29581): Improve visual feedback when testing TTS. ...
15:59:02bertrikIs anyone here with an AMSv2 hearing a short buzz when pausing audio?
15:59:47n1sTheSeven: retry starting rockbox? it happens every time so far ~5 times
15:59:53TheSevenhm, damn
16:01:28CIA-2r29581 build result: All green
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16:04:18dfktbertrik, yes
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16:05:08bertrikI guess this is related to the DC level issue, with the buzz caused by the volume changes during fade in/out
16:05:31dfktit also buzzes shortly at un-pausing as well
16:05:39alpha_one_x86Hello, this firmware is based on what? linux BSD? compatible player have usb 3 support?
16:06:08bertrikthe AMSv1 has a bit to change the volume only during zero-crossing of the firmware, the AMSv2 doesn't seem to have that bit anymore according to the documentation, but I guess it's still there.
16:06:21bertriks/firmware/wave form/
16:06:48dfktthe click at turning the player on and off is something else than the pause buzz?
16:07:33gevaertsalpha_one_x86: rockbox isn't based on any other kernel, and I've never heard of any portable audio player with USB 3 hardware
16:07:43bertrikI don't know if that's related
16:08:04simon___TheSeven: I just updated myself on the IRC logs, I also had the problem with the USB not working, you're saying this is fixed now?
16:08:20simon___In that case, I'll also try it now.
16:08:36alpha_one_x86My target is have mp3 player + virtual drive extension (for emulate cdrom from iso)
16:09:41TheSevensimon___: well, apparently it isn't fixed for everyone :/
16:09:48TheSevenbut some people claimed that things started working recently
16:10:03simon___I'll try it and report back :)
16:10:18TheSevenalpha_one_x86: and why would you need usb3 for that?
16:12:46alpha_one_x86TheSeven: For nothing, I want just use this object for listen music when I not use to emulate cdrom
16:13:44TheSevenare there even flash-based mp3 players that manage to use the full usb2 bandwidth?
16:13:52simon___TheSeven: Works great here!
16:15:17bertrikTheSeven, I don't think so
16:15:17bertrikUSB2.0 high-speed allows up to something like 50 MB/s, I think our targets go up to 10 MB/s max, right?
16:15:33TheSeven30-40MB/s are more realistic though
16:16:48alpha_one_x86To install OS on DVD iso, and with SSD I need more bandwith
16:17:14linuxstbTheSeven: Reading the instructions here - - how does uninstallation work? I see it requires itunes, but what does iloader need to do in order to make itunes want to restore?
16:17:50TheSevenit needs to restore some things on the boot flash to factory state to make itunes happy
16:18:08TheSevenotherwise itunes seems to get confused because it can't detect if it's a nano3g or classic
16:18:36bluebrotherhmm, after going through the svn logs there was quite a bit of changes in Rockbox Utility.
16:18:40TheSeventhis could be solved, it's just a relic from copying the boot flash "file system" code from the nano2g
16:18:53TheSevenso i just "format" the boot flash the same way, which itunes doesn't like
16:19:13bluebrothermight even justify a new release. Though I'd really like to get something done about the voicefile thing on Windows first :o
16:19:44bertrikdfkt, I just found out that I hear the buzz too when just inserting the headphones, so it's probably not related to rockbox fading but rather some hw thing instead
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16:24:46linuxstbTheSeven: OK. It's also not clear what mode the ipod is in for uninstallation - is it in DFU mode?
16:25:48TheSevenno, you just remove the iloader config and it will ask whether it should uninstall itself during the next boot
16:26:41TheSeventhat whole setup is currently a bit fragile and easy to semi-brick (in terms of needing some command line hackery to recover)
16:27:53TheSeveni have something more stable in mind, but i haven't gotten around to implementing it yet
16:27:53linuxstbBut what USB mode is it in when itunes restores? The last two lines mention DFU mode
16:27:53TheSevenitunes will pick up DFU mode and boot disk mode through it
16:28:18linuxstbWhat was your installation idea that involved using custom SCSI commands in UMS mode?
16:30:47TheSeventhat would possibly allow a nano2g-like setup with a rockbox bootloader, but i haven't figured out the details yet
16:30:48bertrikok, I can fix the buzz on fade in/out on AMSv2, but it's replaced by a tick ... :\
16:32:41TheSevenit seems like the LLB is vulnerable to pwnage 2.0 as well, so we could boot our bootloader through an exploit
16:32:56TheSevenhowever they can in theory patch that
16:33:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:33:10TheSeveni doubt they will bother though
16:34:01TheSeveni did a proof-of-concept exploit during very early development, and it seemed to somewhat work, but we need to further investigate that
16:34:30TheSevenalso that weird SCSI protocol needs to be reversed, and we need to make ipodpatcher use it
16:34:55TheSevenseems to be something similar to this:
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16:44:41simon___TheSeven: Seems that I lied to you. USB still doesn't work on my Classic. Only after the first boot.
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16:55:23webguest33Are you guys able to bootstrap a bootloader on last years ipod nanos yet?
16:55:30webguest33No idea what gen they call things..
16:56:23stripwaxwebguest33. no.
16:56:54stripwaxi strongly doubt anybody at all is working on that device
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16:57:32webguest33oh really stripwax ? Is it lack of hw?
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16:57:45stripwax"lack of hw"?
16:58:04stripwaxisn't it essentially something like a small ipod touch? (or does it just give that impression). if so, not sure we would wan to run a bootloader on it. the device can run apps.
16:58:12evowhoever does not have a ipod and jtag
16:58:38evoAh well, I mean, porting effort..
16:58:47evoas in getting your kernel going on it.
16:59:16gevaertsPeople who want to work on this *will* get the hardware
16:59:33evoI have the model number here, its A1320
16:59:38gevaertsBut you have to realise that being a rockbox developer does not mean that one cares about new ipods
16:59:39stripwaxevo: as I said, I doubt anybody is working on that, and I doubt anybody even feels it is worth the effort since the device can anyways run apps (i think?)
17:00:33stripwaxevo: oh you mean the 5th generation, not the 6th generation? so.. not last year's model in fact at all?
17:00:48evoI'm not sure.. I just want to change the firmware from Apples to something else that is not so screwy to work with my FreeBSD system.. i.e. does not insist on itunes and its werid protocals..
17:01:01stripwaxevo: you do NOT need to use itunes.
17:01:06evoum, well I got it last year :p
17:01:07stripwaxbut that is obviously offtopic here
17:01:38evoI have no idea about these things, I don't normally work on these kinds of projects in kernel space
17:01:41stripwaxevo - it came out in 2009 :)
17:01:46evoJust looking for a hand
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17:01:58evosure ok
17:02:09evoI got it in 2010, but anyway.
17:02:22evoAny recommendations?
17:02:25stripwaxevo - well, i think the situation is the same sadly; i doubt anybody is working on porting rockbox to that particular device.
17:02:31gevaertsThe freemyipod status page suggests that we're not close to rockbox on it
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17:03:03evoOK, what's involved? You guys have some kind of make shift JTAG or ?
17:03:04stripwaxevo: if you just want to 'not use itunes' there should be plenty of free alternatives (but as I say, that's offtopic here)
17:03:07gevaertsPossibly people in #freemyipod know more details though, such as what "Code execution: No" means exactly (i.e. do they have clues?)
17:03:39stripwaxevo: I doubt anyone has tried to jtag the 5th gen (or 6th gen) ipod nanos
17:03:45gevaertsI very much doubt if jtag pins are accessible on those
17:03:56evoI rather if I could just change the firmware, your kernel looks pretty simple in design from what I saw on wikipedia
17:04:20evoWell.. that's what I am asking, how do you normally port on such devices?
17:04:21stripwaxevo: you are more than welcome to try, and investigate the secrets of this apple hardware/firmware
17:04:38stripwaxevo: volunteers do it (such as yourself)
17:04:41evoYour going to need to throw me a bone here ;)
17:04:45stripwaxevo: read this:
17:09:17evook this looks useful ta
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17:11:05evotypically how hard are these Apple things to first crack?
17:11:45evoDo they have cyptographic sumchecking for the firmware and 'advanced' things like that to stop you from doing this sort of thing?
17:12:16evoIt would be handy to have some background here to gain metrics on things..
17:12:20gevaertsFrom what I understand, not justcryptographic signing, but full encryption
17:12:36evoumm, what do you mean?
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17:13:54gevaertsBut I'd recommend asking in #freemyipod. The people there are more likely to be knowledgeable about this (although most of them also hang out here)
17:15:27evook thanks, i'm off to bed. I consider this if its worth my time or if I should just sell the dam thing on ebay and buy something that is not such junk
17:15:51evoI assumed people would be very active to port Linux or what not to ipod hw.
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17:18:10gevaertsThere aren't that many people who care enough to spend the needed effort
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17:23:06bertrikwhen should audiohw_preinit typically be called?
17:25:33bertrik(I'm looking at various buzzes, clicks and DC levels for AMSv2 by the way)
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17:52:35bertrikthe buzz on fade-out and fade-in on AMSv2 seems to be related to changing the mixer volume (we adjust both the mixer volume and the headphone stage volume to get a greater dynamic range for volume control)
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18:12:50kristianpaulAnyone here is porting rockbox to the ben nanonote or can tell me a bit about the state of that idea?
18:13:35stripwaxi don't think it's an idea that i've seen discussed before.
18:13:52stripwaxkristianpaul : read this please:
18:13:57kristianpauloh sure, i just "heard" was told..
18:14:27kristianpaulstripwax: also i'm not willing too, just asking ;-)
18:14:41stripwaxkristianpaul - read this first, in that case:
18:14:43kristianpaulI just like mus
18:14:59gevaertsThat's one of those weird mini linux systems, right?
18:15:58gevaertsIf you have sdl on it, the sdl app *may* run out of the box. It's unlikely to be optimal though
18:16:16kristianpaulits a pocketcomputer
18:16:25kristianpauli also run X (Jlime)
18:16:34stripwaxyep, if it runs linux, then it could run the rockbox sdl app.
18:16:55kristianpaulah, i tought it was a OS too
18:17:00gevaertsIt is
18:17:16gevaertsWell, it's both these days, depending on what you want to run it on
18:17:36kristianpaulyeah, i guess when people want more that listen to music, linux save the day?..
18:18:11kristianpauli mean, rockbox is just music player, no more isnt?
18:18:20kristianpaulor not willing to do more i hope
18:18:21stripwaxrockbox has apps too (plugins)
18:18:46stripwaxso does linux. so does windows and iOS for that matter; not sure how relevant linux is to this discussion
18:19:07kristianpaulis not
18:19:08gevaertsI know someone is working on getting rockbox to run (as an application) on the zipit, which I understand is a similar sort of device as the nanonote
18:19:20kristianpaulokay, i got my answers, i leave now
18:19:27kristianpaulYou are very helpfull :-)
18:19:53 Part kristianpaul
18:20:25*gevaerts doesn't really understand the point of these scale models of laptops
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18:21:33stripwaxsmaller and more portable. the same way some smartphones are like small PCs.
18:21:56gevaertsYes, but surely there's a limit on how small you can go while still being useful?
18:22:30gevaertsThis nanonote thing has a 3" screen, and the keyboard is about the same size
18:23:10gevaertsAnd as far as I can see no network
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18:26:17kkurbjungevaerts: are you around? I have some questions on USB enumeration and would like to solicit some ideas on why it would be stopping part-way in the bootloader.
18:26:52gevaertsI'm around for a few more minutes, yes
18:27:13gevaertshm, apparently not...
18:27:20kkurbjungreat, well - I see enumeration working up till the set configuration response
18:27:26gevaertsI'll be back in half an hour to an hour at most
18:27:32kkurbjunok, no worries
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18:56:16gevaertskkurbjun: I'm back
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19:03:11kkurbjungevaerts: so the issue that I am running into is that USB works fine with the standard build, but not with the bootloader
19:03:33kkurbjunI am seeing the bootloader get through enumeration up till set configuration
19:04:02 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
19:04:03kkurbjunbut it doesn't send the next device descriptor after that
19:04:13*gevaerts thinks
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19:04:47kkurbjunI don't see the USB thread run again after that final set configuration, but I think that is because the final device descriptor is never requested by the host
19:04:54kkurbjunat least I don't see it sent on wireshark
19:06:22gevaertsWhat I'd expect after the set configuration is a GET_MAX_LUN, at least if it's mass storage
19:06:28gevaertsDoes lsusb work on it?
19:07:01kkurbjunI see the device in the list on lsusb
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19:07:18gevaertsCan you try lsusb -v -d <vendor:device>?
19:07:28gevaertsAnd if so, pastebin the output
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19:09:06kkurbjunthis is the working output from the main build:
19:11:53kkurbjunin the normal build I see a set configuration and then a "get descriptor string" with a 92 byte response that has some hex information like 0x5403330033, then a "request RPIPE", a get descriptor rpipe, response, then everything takes place on ep1 or 2
19:12:03kkurbjunlet me get the failing output from lsusb
19:12:54kkurbjunthis is the failing output:
19:13:15gevaerts" bNumInterfaces 0
19:13:19gevaertsThat's the problem
19:13:42gevaertsIt tells the host it's a USB device that does nothing, so the host responds by doing nothing
19:13:58kkurbjuninteresting - what would cause that?
19:14:20gevaertsI suspect there's something wrong with some defines or ifdefs somewhere that cause usb_storage.c not to be hooked up
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19:16:18kkurbjunhmm, looks like I might need to define have_bootloader_usb_mode
19:16:39kkurbjun:), thanks for looking at that - I was thinking there might be something wrong with the driver
19:16:50kkurbjunI was definitely looking in the wrong place
19:17:14gevaertsThe driver will be wrong next, after you fix this :)
19:17:53gevaertsThat's how the world works!
19:19:07IR7738,15 ,14 ,1,01 descargar banda emergente chilena apoyemos ,01,14 ,15
19:19:37maraz"Chilean pop band we support download"
19:21:09IR7738,15 ,14 ,1,01 thrash ,01,14 ,15
19:21:24gevaertsIR7738: please stop that
19:21:30kkurbjunyep, looks like there is something else wrong now - now I don't see proper enumeration at all
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19:22:16IR7738,15 ,14 ,1,01 ok ,01,14 ,15
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19:24:06*bluebrother summons domonoky
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19:27:49Mode"#rockbox +o Bagder" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
19:28:00Mode"#rockbox +b *!*@" by Bagder (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
19:28:14Kick(#rockbox IR7738 :IR7738) by Bagder!~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder
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19:35:27Mode"#rockbox -o Bagder" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
19:35:31craftychophello there!
19:36:11craftychopwhere can I find the source code of the applications installed in rockbox?
19:36:25Bagderthey're all in the same single source
19:36:40Bagderbest gotten off the svn server
19:38:41craftychopBagder: so I've to read the rockbox source code to view the source code of an app?
19:39:18Bagderthe "apps" that we call plugins are in the apps/plugins directory
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19:41:19craftychopokay but I can't find the source code of the plugin called resistor.rock
19:41:28craftychopwhere exaclty is it
19:45:21craftychopwell, probably I still don't understand well, on my device (an Ipod 1st gen), the application path is: .rockbox/rocks/appls... but I can't find any sources dot c
19:50:55Bagderon your device? we're talking about the source code tree
19:52:26craftychopand where can I find the source code tree?
19:53:34Bagderoff the svn server or in a downloaded tarball
19:57:19craftychopokay thanks...
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20:25:27CIA-2New commit by Buschel (r29582): Refactor reading of Xing/Info/Vbri tags to prepare for further changes.
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20:28:31CIA-2r29582 build result: All green
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20:42:53simon___TheSeven: I told you before that I got USB working on the Classic. Unfortunately, after a reboot, it stopped working again. Just like before :-/
20:43:26TheSevenyeah, apparently we're fighting two completely different issues causing similar behavior
20:43:40TheSevenyours doesn't lock up when connecting to usb in rockbox, does it=
20:43:55simon___It does lock up.
20:44:13TheSevenso it doesn't return to the normal menu after disconnecting?
20:44:18simon___When I remove the cable, it's stuck there.
20:44:32TheSevenso the behavior is exactly identical
20:44:53TheSevenhowever it seems to be caused by too low vcore on some, and by not properly initializing something on others
20:45:17simon___Is there anything I could do to debug?
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20:45:29TheSevennothing that I know of...
20:45:39TheSevenexcept for maybe trying to bisect where it gets stuck
20:45:48TheSevenbut that isn't going to be easy
20:46:40simon___I see....
20:47:08simon___There's no point in trying with even higher voltage?
20:49:35TheSeventhe fact that it works when booted through DFU and fails after a power cycle tells me that it can't be the voltage
20:49:49TheSevenwell, unless i'm missing something subtle at least
20:49:56TheSevenn1s: can you check if yours behaves the same way?
20:50:27TheSevene.g. does USB work if you connect to rockbox or umsboot USB before powering it down for the first time after installation?
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20:51:17simon___I tried again now, it doesn't get to the USB screen, it just freezes. In earlier builds, it goes to the USB screen and the freezes.
20:51:49TheSevendid you install on windows or linux?
20:52:00simon___I installed on linux.
20:52:05n1sTheSeven: sure, which ubi file should i use?
20:52:14TheSevenshouldn't matter
20:52:23TheSevenjust use the one that's currently flashed anyway
20:52:37TheSevenor maybe don't use an installer at all
20:52:46TheSevenyou can boot rockbox directly through umsboot
20:52:55n1sthat's the newer one so rockbox doesn't start but i can try umsboot
20:52:59TheSevenjust rename rockbox.bin (not rockbox.ipod) to rockbox.ubi and throw it into umsboot
20:53:07simon___That's what I do, just boot rockbox directly to add files.
20:53:24simon___It's a workaround for now :)
20:54:18n1sso boot into dfu moed, run the installer thing and then drop rockbox.ubi on the ramdisk?
20:54:28TheSevensimon___: which bootloader are you using? iloader or emcore?
20:55:21TheSevenn1s: if you mean the bootstrapper and not the installer, then yes
20:55:46simon___Is emcore the flashy 3D-menu? That's the one I use.
20:55:52TheSevenplease grab a checkout from
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20:59:25simon___What do I do with it?
20:59:30CIA-2New commit by Buschel (r29583): Add up skipped bytes when parsing for valid MPEG headers.
20:59:55TheSeventhe ipod does not show up in lsusb if it's in the boot menu?
21:00:36TheSevenbut connecting usb does not crash the boot menu either?
21:01:06 Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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21:01:09simon___That's correct
21:03:04CIA-2r29583 build result: All green
21:03:04TheSevenbugger... i really need a tool that allows configuring voltages using the clickwheel...
21:04:23saratogabertrik: I think those delays should probably go in since they seem to improve compatibility quite a bit
21:04:47TheSevensimon___: hm, does usb also break after menu+select, or only after a clean powerdown?
21:05:22simon___I'll try.
21:08:57simon___Does it matter if I use emcore or iLoader?
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21:09:07TheSevenonly for the set of tools needed :)
21:09:16TheSevenemcore has a newer version of the usb debugging interface
21:09:41TheSevenand the newer emcore builds use a higher value for Vcore
21:10:54n1sTheSeven: yes, usb in rockbox worked after booting it from the dfu bootstrapper, the wheel and buttons didn't work after disconnect though...
21:11:42simon___Try going in to hold mode and back, that sometimes solves that :)
21:11:50TheSevenfactory config is 1e:17 22:2f, HEAD emcore uses 1e:0f 22:22
21:12:15n1si tried that, no difference the hold itself worked though since the backlight went off when i toggled it
21:12:26simon___Is it I should flash?
21:12:44TheSevenyou can't flash that directly without wrapping it into an installer
21:12:52TheSevenwhich revision is the build you currently have?
21:12:53saratogahow is bass boost different from EQ?
21:13:07TheSevensaratoga: one being software and one being hardware eq?
21:13:08simon___Is there a installer for emcore?
21:13:22saratogaTheSeven: at least on Clip I think theres no hardware EQ
21:13:24TheSevenwell, I think you used that already?
21:13:53saratogaso if i enable bass boost is it just turning on an EQ band for me?
21:13:55simon___Yeah, I found it in the IRC logs earlier today, forgot the URL
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21:14:29n1ssaratoga: i think i remember the software bass treble things are implemented with simpler filters making them supposedly sound better than just using shelving filters in our EQ but i don't know much about this stuff
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21:14:41n1sthey are definitely separate though
21:15:09n1spreglow: probably knows though
21:15:33simon___Found it, right?
21:15:53 Quit stripwax (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:16:12m1k3yZagor: if you remember me from yesterday
21:16:23saratogan1s: it looks like the software tone controls call eq_filter
21:16:30simon___Hey, earlier today, that url gave me the emcore file?!
21:16:34saratogaso i wonder how the precut needs to be set if bass boost is enabled
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21:16:44simon___Now I'm confused
21:16:57m1k3yZagor: we discussed the possibility of porting existing plugins to Android
21:18:04m1k3yZagor: is there any merit to that idea as a GSoC project
21:19:18n1ssaratoga: yeah but they use different filters than the EQ
21:19:18TheSeventhat url is the emcore installer, yes
21:20:16n1sor at least i think so
21:21:28m1k3yZagor: also, how open are you guys to a rehaul of the app from scratch
21:21:46m1k3yZagor: because in its current state, it is mostly unusable
21:21:58m1k3yZagor: a native app makes more sense
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21:22:28m1k3yZagor: but then there is the question of "does anybody want yet another media management app for android"
21:22:29TheSevenwhat is a "native app" in your terms?
21:22:37gevaertsm1k3y: you'll need to provide a lot more detailed reasons than "in its current state, it is mostly unusable" :)
21:22:39TheSevenyou mean using native GUI widgets?
21:22:41n1sm1k3y: what app do you mean? rockbox itself? and what is from scratch?
21:23:04m1k3yn1s: not rockbox, the current Android port
21:23:24gevaertsThat *is* rockbox
21:23:38m1k3yi know
21:23:52m1k3ysee if the interface to it were a clickwheel like on an ipod
21:23:57m1k3yit would probably work fine
21:24:10m1k3ybut android has different HIG
21:24:20TheSeven[21:22] <TheSeven> you mean using native GUI widgets?
21:24:27m1k3yand that must be respected and harnassed to get a uniform experience
21:24:31n1sm1k3y: if you mean to make a whole new ui using the native style on the platform (here Android) the idea has come up before
21:24:34gevaertsRight. So you mean the controls. That's not "from scratch" :)
21:24:36m1k3yTheSeven: probably yes
21:24:44simon___TheSeven: Now i also have ATA error: -11...
21:25:32 Quit stripwax (Client Quit)
21:25:34TheSevenhm, how old is that rockbox build?
21:25:38m1k3yTheSeven: also, i see that the current plugin architecture does not allow for background services
21:25:39TheSeventhat error code sounds very strange to me
21:25:47TheSeventhis seems to still use the old ATA driver
21:26:03n1sm1k3y: properly separating the current ui code form the rest and plugging in a new ui is going to be a lot of work
21:26:04TheSevenm1k3y: that's not entirely true
21:26:17simon___The one I got with the iLoader installer today
21:26:21gevaertsm1k3y: the current plugin architecture is not meant for services
21:26:26m1k3yn1s: i don't shy away from a lot of work
21:26:36simon___I could try updating it :)
21:26:41m1k3yn1s: i just wanted to get feedback if you guys are even open to it
21:26:55TheSevensimon___: emcore doesn't install a full rockbox build any more
21:27:04TheSevenso it's probably some old crap that was lying around on the disk before
21:27:04m1k3ygevaerts: Zagor was talking about stuff like lyric fetching, scrobbling yesterday
21:27:05preglowsaratoga: tone controls are two first order shelving filters cascaded to a eq_filter compatible biquad
21:27:12m1k3ygevaerts: how do you plan to go about that
21:27:24preglowall eq filters are second order, so tone controls sound different
21:27:24simon___Okay, I'll copy the newest rockbox build over
21:27:26saratogapreglow: do they set the precut automatically?
21:27:54TheSevensaratoga: the bass/treble thingys do, but I don't know about the EQ
21:27:57preglowhardware prescale?
21:28:01saratogaor rather are they designed to have negative gain
21:28:15gevaertsm1k3y: depends. I think I'd implement those on the java side, not as rockbox plugins, but I haven't really thought about it
21:28:35preglowi really don't remember, but i think i do remember using scalers
21:28:44preglowbut they're not available everywhere
21:29:06TheSevensaratoga: I know that setting the bass/treble control sets precut as well, if the driver supports that
21:29:25m1k3ygevaerts: i agree
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21:29:56m1k3ygevaerts: something that i am still not sure about is whether there is enthusiasm in the community about the android port
21:30:43gevaertsThat's too vague a question to even begin answering I'd say
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21:30:51m1k3ygevaerts: will an effort to make it better, more feature laden and usable be welcomed or will it be frowned upon (due to focus being on Apple devices)
21:31:05gevaertsWhat focus on Apple devices?
21:31:11n1sm1k3y: we don't have a focus :)
21:31:21 Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
21:31:44simon___TheSeven: Now I have the latest rockbox build. It boots, and freezes when I plug the cable in. As expected... :)
21:32:14gevaertsThe only reason Apple devices are listed first on the front page is because Apple sneakily picked a name near the start of the alphabet
21:32:17n1ssimon___: updating rockbox fixed ata error -11 ?
21:32:57simon___I booted with the rockbox.ubi file, copied the .rockbox directory over and it worked.
21:33:22m1k3yok, i'll play around with the current build some more, and then see if i can get you guys to believe in this as a soc project
21:33:49m1k3ykugel: i don't seem to be able to find a link to the source repo
21:34:03m1k3ykugel: for the android port
21:34:22n1sm1k3y: there seems to be a split between people liking the current UI on RaaA ports and people who would like a native ui for each platform
21:34:41n1sm1k3y: the android port is in our master svn
21:35:20m1k3yn1s: how about a blend of the two?
21:35:52n1salso since the current ui has evolved fro years and sometimes painfully i don't know how a completely new UI will be recieved but *I* think it would be very interesting to see
21:36:14saratogahaving a second UI might be neat for a lot of reasons
21:36:26m1k3yn1s: using native widgets for ease of implementation and system wide consistency, while utilizing android's theming capabilities to give a look and feel of native rockbox
21:36:28saratogadebugging, separating UI code from playback code, etc
21:36:48n1ssaratoga: oh yes
21:36:54n1sm1k3y: why not
21:37:50saratogam1k3y: to be clear, theres only 1 rockbox source code, and if you configure an application build, different parts are built then if you configure a Sandisk Sansa build for instance
21:37:56gevaertsm1k3y: do you have thoughts on using android widgets versus keeping the rockbox theme configurability?
21:38:31m1k3ygevaerts: i dont know how rockbox theming is currently done
21:38:58saratogai assume we could have new tags for Android devices that map to android specific UI elements, although that might make supporting older tags rather complicated since they'd have to be reimplemented in java I suspect
21:39:34saratogawe have a script language called WPS that lets you setup a While Playing Screen with various UI elements in whatever order you like
21:41:00m1k3ysaratoga: interesting
21:41:38AlexPThe wps is how Rockbox themeing is done, so if you didn't know about that how could you know about Rockbox themeing?
21:41:46AlexPsorry. misread :)
21:41:59AlexPI wouldn't call the current android UI unusable at all
21:42:11AlexPIt could do with a bit of love sure, but it is perfectly useable
21:42:55saratogaits not clear to me that an Android GUI needs to have theming and such immediately, it would be neat to have a functional GUI (even an unthemeable one) as simply a proof of concept
21:43:04m1k3yok wait, i have to ask: what are the expectations from the Android port?
21:43:04saratogaand of course once you have something I'm sure other people will expand on it
21:43:21m1k3yi mean
21:43:22n1si don't know if it's good to get hung up on preserving the current theming facilities in a new gui, i think it could get in the way and i don't think it's the most important thing in the ui
21:43:30AlexPI don't see all that much difference between the current android rb and things like e.g. rockplayer
21:43:43AlexP(in terms of gui)
21:43:55m1k3yis it meant for someone who wants to completely covert there phone to a dedicated music device?
21:44:03m1k3yor is it just another music player?
21:44:32AlexPIt would be silly to think of Rockbox on e.g. android as a firmware replacement, it isn't
21:44:35AlexPIt is an app
21:45:00AlexPAnd it clearly isn't "just another" music player :)
21:45:05TheSeveni think it aims to be a very feature-rich music player app for people who know what they're doing :)
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21:45:36m1k3yAlexP: ok in that case, I'd say that in its current state, its pretty unusable compared to popular players such as Cubed or PowerAMP
21:45:38AlexPWe want to bring the huge number of features, the highly efficient optimised massive codec support, etc. etc. to other platforms
21:45:47AlexPm1k3y: Unusable how?
21:45:53AlexPThat on its own doesn't mean anything
21:45:59AlexPI use it just fiine for instance
21:46:41m1k3yhmm unusable is probably the wrong word
21:46:56m1k3yits difficult
21:47:06AlexPThe menu spacing patch helps loads incidentally
21:47:17AlexPkugel: Do you plan to commit that?
21:48:13AlexPThe WPS needs a bit of a go over, but that is doable currently
21:48:16m1k3yfor example, the main screen looks like a directory listing
21:48:28simon___TheSeven: Is there anything I could do to find out what the problem on the Classic is?
21:48:30AlexPYes, it is a list of options
21:48:34m1k3ywith tons of unutilized screen estate (even on my QVGA phone)
21:48:38AlexPWhat would you have?
21:48:41 Quit Keripo1 (Quit: Leaving.)
21:49:03m1k3yalso, getting to playing a track i want requires me to scroll through 3 levels
21:49:04AlexPNote I'm not adverse to changes, but just saying useusable means nothing
21:49:30AlexPYou select either the file browser or the database, then you nafigate to the track
21:49:30TheSevensimon___: did you try if menu+select breaks it as well?
21:49:36m1k3yall of these little things add up to making something usable or unusable
21:49:40simon___Yep, it does.
21:49:46AlexPYou can set where the filebrowser starts, how would you then speed up getting there?
21:50:03AlexPUnuseable is a silly work, it patently isn't
21:50:04 Quit stripwax__ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:50:21gevaertsNote that the theme probably doesn't make use of all possibly useful options yet
21:50:32 Quit stripwax (Quit:
21:50:39AlexPyes, there are quite a few new themeing options - the WPS could be much better
21:51:10gevaertsYou can easily have lots of playback status on the menu screens, and (provided JdGordon| does some work IIRC) actually put playback control there
21:51:32AlexPAs I say, changes/a new system is not in of itself bad - I just haven't heard any real problems yetr, or how they could be fixed
21:51:35gevaertsIt's just that the android port isn't mature enough yet to have attracted the hordes of creative themers
21:51:47m1k3yAlexP: hmm, i can't really comment until i see the underlying code
21:51:50AlexPyes, you can put any of the wps controls on any of the menu screens
21:52:13m1k3yAlexP: i need to see how this works to suggest a way to do it better
21:52:31AlexPm1k3y: I think the first thing to do is to look at the current themeing engine - it is quite powerful and the current android default theme doesn't use much of it
21:54:08simon___TheSeven: I guess the emcore tools will be useless since it doesn't show up in lsusb?
21:54:33TheSevenyeah, unless you find a way to actively break usb during the first boot
21:54:51m1k3ychecking out the trunk right now
21:54:52TheSevenotherwise it's all poking in the dark
21:55:08m1k3ywhoa, those are a lot of fonts :D
21:55:16TheSeventhe weird thing is that it only seems to happen on very few devices, and i can't recognize a pattern
21:55:29TheSevensimon___, n1s: which exact models do you have?
21:55:35AlexPm1k3y: I don't get the "getting to playing a track i want requires me to scroll through 3 levels". If you are not there you press the menu button for the main menu, then you select either filebrowser or database as you want. You can set the filebrowser to start where you want. You can customise the database display. After that, the number of levels depends on how you organise your music, and is up to you.
21:55:47simon___Classic 3g, 160GB, Silver.
21:55:55 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
21:56:20TheSevenexcept for the color that's the same as my working one
21:56:47n1smine's a 120GB silver but i don't know the gen
21:56:56TheSeven120GB => 2G
21:57:34AlexPm1k3y: You can also have shortcuts from the wps that will put you back exactly where you have just come from in the filebrowser or database
21:58:12AlexPThis smells to me a bit like the default theme needs improving (which I think we pretty much agree on) :)
21:58:26m1k3yAlexP: ok, i think the gap here is that i've never looked at a properly working rockbox installation
21:58:48m1k3yAlexP: this is my first experience with rockbox and so i dont know how stuff works and where all these setting are located
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21:59:27AlexPm1k3y: The default theme needs work for sure, but I think before getting to a complete ui redesign, you should check if it can currently be done, and if not can we add the couple of missing bits :)
22:00:54AlexPm1k3y: The manual has a section on themeing, and there is a CustomWps wiki page too (might be CustomWPS)
22:01:12AlexPProbably worth a look
22:01:25AlexP(in addition to the source of course)
22:01:28m1k3ywill do
22:01:38gevaertsOh, and the theme site can provide some insight too. There are some quite creative themes there
22:02:07m1k3yanother thing
22:02:14m1k3ywe've been talking about UI mostly
22:02:27m1k3yhow about stuff like database
22:02:31AlexPgevaerts: yes, that too
22:02:40m1k3yandroid has something called MediaStore
22:03:01m1k3ywhich is a pre-existing database of all media content on the device
22:03:15AlexPm1k3y: It doesn't support anywhere near all the formats Rockbox does
22:03:58AlexPSo if you used that you would miss a load of formats out
22:04:31 Quit DerPapst (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:04:37AlexPI'm not sure how using it would go - if you want a DB view you would still need Rockbox to do something for the other formats, or just ignore them
22:04:58AlexPOr have two databases which would be rather confusing IMO
22:05:36m1k3yAlexP: what does the current database build procedure do?
22:05:40 Join DerPapst [0] (
22:05:42AlexPBut I haven't really thought about it, maybe there is a way to integrate it (I mean here ui wise, rather than code wise)
22:05:44m1k3yAlexP: recursively scan the sdcard?
22:05:55m1k3yAlexP: and index the matching files?
22:06:06AlexPm1k3y: I'm not the one to ask about that :)
22:06:22AlexPI don't use the thing, and have no idea about implementation :)
22:06:36AlexPbut yes, I think so
22:06:53AlexPWe also have database.ignore and database.unignore files
22:06:55m1k3yAlexP: did you guys get a gsoc intern for the android implementation last year?
22:07:02AlexPyes, kugel
22:07:23m1k3ynice :)
22:07:35m1k3yhavent had a chance to talk to him yet
22:07:42AlexPyeah, the initial port was his GSoC :)
22:10:30 Quit simon___ (Quit: leaving)
22:11:44 Join Keripo [0] (
22:11:50AlexPAnyway, I think we'd all be interested by ideas, but it'd be a good plan to get to know the current theming possibilities first :) Then we can discuss from a common knowledge of the current capabilities and shortcomings :)
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22:18:36m1k3yAlexP: i think the first step would be to look at rockbox the 'firmware' and the features it offers and then translate all of them to Android in a way that is natural to the smartphone interface
22:19:18JdGordon|gevaerts: I dont have a monopoly on skin related coding :)
22:19:19m1k3yAlexP: is there such a thing? (a release of rockbox which is feature complete and rock solid stable)
22:19:33gevaertsJdGordon|: you don't? Good to know! :)
22:20:49JdGordon|m1k3y: with >200 open bugs... yeah not likely
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22:21:35gevaertsAll theming features are supported on Android
22:21:51m1k3yJdGordon|: my purpose of asking is to set a golden release, and therefore the initial challenge would to be make that release work completely on android
22:21:53gevaertsWhich aren't?
22:22:02JdGordon|hotkey support
22:22:15gevaertsAh, right. Ok, I can live with that limitation :)
22:22:35JdGordon|sure, if you are happy with a 3rd rate product...
22:22:47gevaertsm1k3y: that statement doesn't make much sense to me...
22:23:29m1k3ygevaerts: for example plugins
22:23:54JdGordon|plugins barely make sense on android
22:23:59m1k3ygevaerts: do all these work on android
22:24:21 Quit petur (Quit: here today, gone tomorrow)
22:24:23gevaertsWhy do you want a rockbox chess plugin on android?
22:24:29m1k3ynow we are getting to stuff that makes sense and doesnt make sense on android
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22:24:50m1k3yso it would make sense to implement music playback in a way specific to android
22:24:53AlexPm1k3y: Plugins don't make sense on adroid in the most part
22:24:59AlexPer, why?
22:25:02AlexPplugins are just that
22:25:07AlexPThey don't affect the core
22:25:14gevaertsWhy is music playback any different on Android than elsewhere?
22:25:31m1k3ynot the actual playback
22:25:41m1k3ythe way the user experiences the playback
22:25:48m1k3ylike the 'now playing' screen
22:25:52AlexPthat doesn't change with out without plugins
22:25:57m1k3ysupport for lyrics, album art
22:26:02AlexPYou just don't have the plugin menu item without them
22:26:10AlexPalbum art is in core, not a plugin
22:26:30m1k3yAlexP: i was just stating plugins as an example
22:26:47AlexPClearly a bad one, as they don't apply so I don't understand the point :)
22:29:09m1k3yAlexP: ok how about power management
22:29:16AlexPwhat about it?
22:29:17m1k3yAlexP: its useless within the app
22:29:31AlexPsure, so it doesn't get built as it does for normal targets
22:29:33m1k3ysince this is not a replacement firmware, but an app
22:29:59m1k3yAlexP: could you explain what that means
22:30:40AlexPRockbox is built for all targets from the same tree, but not everything applies to ererything
22:30:46AlexPThe power of ifdefs :)
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22:32:22m1k3yAlexP: yes, so why do I see it in the app
22:32:32gevaertsYou mean the battery level?
22:32:47AlexPwe read the battery level from android
22:32:55AlexPBut we don't use it to do power management
22:33:03gevaertsThemes have access to the battery level if they want to show it. Is that a problem?
22:33:08AlexPnot like on a dap where we are a firmware
22:33:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:33:25AlexPthemes don't have to show battery level, but it is probably useful if they do
22:33:59m1k3ygevaerts: not a problem, its just redundant where rockbox is running as an app
22:34:17gevaertsIf you don't want it, you pick a theme that doesn't show it!
22:34:19AlexPThat is subjective, but themes can show it or not as they wisj
22:34:57m1k3yoh so this is done to maintain cross-device compatibility for themes
22:35:12AlexPIf I am using RB, I quite like to be able to keep an eye on battery without coming out of it, but of course that is just personal preference
22:35:28gevaerts*You* may not want the battery level. Why do you assume that *nobody* wants it?
22:35:50gevaertsAre you going to propose to remove the RTC tags as well?
22:36:16gevaertsI mean, knowing what time it is isn't an essential audio player feature, is it?
22:36:25AlexPThing here is though, this is just arguing about what the default WPS should show, it is nothing to do with rewriting anything
22:36:33TheSevengevaerts: well, if he has that in the OS statusbar as well...
22:36:42AlexPTheSeven: Sure, so the theme can not show it
22:36:52gevaertsTheSeven: he isn't *forced* to use a theme that shows it
22:37:08gevaertsAnd how about album art? Surely music is music? Let's drop album art support, it's clearly useless
22:37:12AlexPThis is nothing to do with redesigning Rockbox specifically for Android to remove the ability to show the battery if people want it
22:37:16m1k3ymy point is that porting every feature that makes sense on a dedicated firmware to android doesnt make sense
22:37:20TheSevenof course, but I don't see much sense in duplicating that info on the screen either, if he wants the system statusbar to be shown
22:37:33AlexPm1k3y: It is already there virtue of the skinning engine
22:37:50AlexPWhy bother to remove tags that you personally think are pointless?
22:38:18gevaertsI *never* listen to music in 99% of the genres in the id3 genre list. Should I make a custom build with those stripped out?
22:38:42AlexPTheSeven: Yes, but again this is an argument about the default WPS, which isn't/wasn't the point of this conversation
22:39:20 Quit bmbl (Quit: Verlassend)
22:40:08m1k3yAlexP: hmm this is something that is subjective
22:40:23AlexPOf course, but I really don't get your point
22:40:33 Join stripwax [0] (
22:40:41m1k3yAlexP: what you are saying sounds quite pointless to me
22:40:57gevaertsm1k3y: the fact that some people want to see battery level or clock is *not* subjective.
22:41:04gevaertsIt's a *fact*
22:41:12m1k3yAlexP: like why would you want to have video playback codecs on a device that doesnt support it at all
22:41:21AlexPm1k3y: Anyone can make a theme. They can put what information on it they want. Why do you want to remove some of the things they can use?
22:41:31AlexPm1k3y: What video player codecs?
22:41:38gevaertsm1k3y: how is that even related to what we're discussing?
22:41:49m1k3yyou would just add that and hide the options for video playback in the skin?
22:41:52TheSevenm1k3y: but it *does* support reading the battery level!
22:41:52AlexPRockbox has mpegplayer as a plugin for mpeg1/2. It is built for the targets that can use it
22:42:10AlexPm1k3y: I don't understand that?
22:42:19gevaertsAlexP: he's just talking nonsense now
22:42:27gevaertsNo point in trying to understand
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22:42:45AlexPm1k3y: mpegplayer is not part of the core, it can't appear on the wps. It is a plugin that is built when it makes sense
22:42:57m1k3ysomehow i am unable to convey my point
22:43:15m1k3yi am suggesting all these points as analogies
22:43:20 Join Topy44 [0] (
22:43:23AlexPbut none of them work
22:43:25m1k3yand you guys are taking each point specifically
22:43:47AlexPSo far, all you have suggested is removing things that already work and that some people like, that are just options they can use
22:43:56TheSevenm1k3y: I think we all understand that there are features that just don't make any sense for an app build
22:44:11AlexPsure, most of the plugins for a start
22:44:43TheSevenm1k3y: but those features haven't been implemented or enabled for that build in the first place
22:45:49m1k3yok, i should really get to know how rockbox works before saying anything more
22:45:57AlexPIt might help :)
22:46:05m1k3yill be back tomorrow with a better view of how things work
22:46:16m1k3yright now i think im just annoying you guys
22:46:26AlexPnot annoying, I just don't understand
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23:08:18pixelmaif Rockbox wouldn't hide or even err... utilise the Android notification bar, then the battery level tags etc. may become "useless" although people may still want them. But - it doesn't so far although that's been discussed
23:08:44 Join brightspark [0] (
23:09:33AlexPpixelma: Indeed so, but that is still just a what is on the default wps question, not a lets remove the tags or rewrite the ui question
23:09:53AlexPA different ui approach might be interesting, but not for that reason :)
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23:32:40JdGordon|I thought kugel was working on bringing back the native statusbar?
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23:39:20*[Saint] assumes "in RaaA" follows that sentence.
23:40:48[Saint]I have thought that would be cool myself actually, but...can we treat it like an .sbs? and overlay it? Or do we have to offset the theme by X and our theme sizes gget crazy (like 240x308 as opposed to 240x320)
23:49:29kugel[Saint]: the last time I looked at it it could act as an sbs, but there was a nasty annoyance that the rest of the UI went down for a fraction of a second
23:50:45[Saint]kugel: Right...I was just voicinf ideas out loud I guess...just thinking how much it would *suck* if the statusbar offset the screen by X and made theme sizes even more difficult.
23:51:44kugelthe maemo port has this problem IIRC but it can be handled transparently in the lcd subsystem
23:52:24kugeli.e. hiding the statusbar dictated offset to apps/
23:52:31kugeland themes
23:54:01kugelI don't know if I can get that glitch away
23:54:41kugelbut my "dream" of the host statusbar is that it acts as an sbs, including %we/%wd support
23:55:10[Saint]I have seen a few android apps that shift around by some obvious offset when changing portrait/landscape mode...or on first load.
23:55:13kugelit's certainly doable, but the glitch kinda sucks
23:55:19[Saint]If we could avoid that, it'd be nice.
23:55:43[Saint]"[11:55] <kugel> but my "dream" of the host statusbar is that it acts as an sbs, including %we/%wd support" <−−- yes, yes...excellent.
23:55:50[Saint]I was thinking the same. nice.
23:57:27[Saint]I made a reasonably convincing 2.1 statusbar .sbs mockup a while back to see how it would look.
23:57:35kugelbut I was pretty lost in the current skin code so I didn't know where to put the enable/disable calls to make it work properly
23:57:37[Saint]faking it really isn't an option.
23:57:46kugelshowing and hiding the statusbar is rather simple

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