| 00:01:20 | Zagor | I'm not getting any logf output in adb logcat. |
| 00:02:00 | Zagor | uh, maybe because I forgot to enable it :) |
| 00:04:03 | | Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org) |
| 00:07:13 | salty_horse | saratoga, reported: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12007. thanks for the help |
| 00:09:10 | Zagor | umm, no. still no logf. kugel, is there something special I need to do? |
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| 01:14:46 | [Saint] | pixelma: still having trouble compiling an .apk? |
| 01:14:55 | [Saint] | tools version was bumped a few days ago. |
| 01:17:23 | [Saint] | pixelma: r29561 <−−- bump SDK version to SDKv11 |
| 01:19:42 | | Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving) |
| 01:22:54 | | Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 01:31:25 | * | bluebroth3r wonders why the SDK version was bumped |
| 01:34:20 | | Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:34:29 | [Saint] | I never know if it's "it's the new one, we should be using it" or "we actually utilize something that is only available in this version". |
| 01:35:29 | bluebroth3r | if it would be the latter it wouldn't run on 2.2 anymore. AFAIK SDK 11 is Android 3.0 |
| 01:36:26 | pixelma | [Saint]: I saw and actually suspected that as the error message was showing something with a .jar file of the SDK - just didn't have a chance to figure out what I need to do about it (and I also needed a manual reconfigure, make reconf wasn't enough for some reason) |
| 01:37:09 | bluebroth3r | I figured that for some reason something didn't like my ANDROID_* variables to point to symlinks. |
| 01:39:24 | pixelma | if what bluebroth3r says is true, I wouldn't be able to run such an apk anymore o.O |
| 01:40:12 | pixelma | or maybe I misunderstand |
| 01:42:26 | | Join Quazgaa [0] (quaz@c-98-247-229-123.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:42:32 | Quazgaa | omg how do i turn off playlists |
| 01:42:45 | Quazgaa | thats the whole reason i run rockbox in the first place is to get away from that garbage |
| 01:42:50 | bluebroth3r | Quazgaa: you can't. |
| 01:42:53 | Quazgaa | :O |
| 01:42:57 | bluebroth3r | Rockbox is completely playlist based. |
| 01:43:10 | Quazgaa | nothing good ever comes from upgrading stuff |
| 01:43:12 | Quazgaa | thatll show me |
| 01:43:23 | bluebroth3r | but you don't need to have playlists on your player −− if you're using the dynamic playlist only its not an issue at all |
| 01:43:28 | pixelma | I don't understand what you really want though |
| 01:43:50 | bluebroth3r | Quazgaa: you should really read up on the manual on this, especially the chapter on playback and playlists. |
| 01:43:58 | Quazgaa | i want the old functionality where you just browse your files and select one and it plays it and then keeps playing the rest of the files in the directory |
| 01:44:04 | bluebroth3r | seriously, I almost never use playlist and it never got into my way |
| 01:44:18 | bluebroth3r | so what? You can do that. |
| 01:44:26 | Quazgaa | ok how do i do that |
| 01:44:27 | bluebroth3r | it's basically what I'm doing since years |
| 01:44:40 | bluebroth3r | just play the file ... |
| 01:44:51 | Quazgaa | well thats how rockbox has always been |
| 01:44:56 | Quazgaa | i hadnt upgraded rockbox in a while so i did |
| 01:44:58 | bluebroth3r | I really don't get your problem. That's the default behaviour of Rockbox unless you're using the database. |
| 01:45:01 | Quazgaa | and now i cant get out of this playlist crap |
| 01:45:20 | pixelma | Quazgaa: that's still there. Maybe you accidentally changed your show files option to 'playlists! |
| 01:45:28 | bluebroth3r | this behaviour hasn't changed. Period. |
| 01:45:33 | Quazgaa | i dunno |
| 01:45:40 | * | bluebroth3r considers stopping to respond |
| 01:45:41 | pixelma | that should have been a ? |
| 01:45:46 | Quazgaa | other options mysteriously changed when i upgraded |
| 01:45:51 | Quazgaa | like party mode magically turned on |
| 01:45:59 | Quazgaa | took me a while and some taling on this channel to figure it out |
| 01:46:09 | bluebroth3r | what was the old version? |
| 01:46:16 | Quazgaa | like a year old probably |
| 01:46:37 | bluebroth3r | hmm, then that definitely shouldn't happen. We had settings in file back then. |
| 01:46:55 | Quazgaa | well i was talking to rockbox people on here about it at length |
| 01:47:01 | Quazgaa | as far as party mode magically turning on when i upgraded |
| 01:47:08 | Quazgaa | they decided it happens sometimes when upgrading from old versions |
| 01:47:14 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Quit: Leaving) |
| 01:47:24 | pixelma | check your file view setting then |
| 01:47:26 | Quazgaa | so i guess i just need to check more options |
| 01:47:38 | Quazgaa | i think i did |
| 01:47:47 | Quazgaa | options were files playlists, music, all |
| 01:47:48 | bluebroth3r | you can always reset to the default settings by deleting /.rockbox/config.cfg |
| 01:47:49 | Quazgaa | or something right? |
| 01:47:52 | Quazgaa | so i chose files |
| 01:48:11 | Quazgaa | at least now i can browse my files |
| 01:48:14 | Quazgaa | but i cant play them |
| 01:48:19 | Quazgaa | just add them to a playlist |
| 01:48:27 | Quazgaa | and even then nothing seems to happen |
| 01:48:30 | bluebroth3r | why can't you play files? |
| 01:48:48 | bluebroth3r | what happens when you try to do so? |
| 01:49:30 | Quazgaa | i select a file and it says delete dynamic playlist? |
| 01:49:37 | Quazgaa | and then nothing seems to happen if i select yes or no |
| 01:49:54 | bluebroth3r | no splash message? |
| 01:49:55 | pixelma | still party mode? I'm actually not sure about all the details involved |
| 01:50:05 | Quazgaa | i made sure party mode was off |
| 01:50:23 | bluebroth3r | party mode shouldn't be able to delete the dynamic playlist, just add tracks |
| 01:50:42 | Quazgaa | oh wait |
| 01:50:43 | * | bluebroth3r suspects something to be broken with the installation |
| 01:50:49 | Quazgaa | i was hitting right instead of select |
| 01:50:57 | Quazgaa | ok so now that i actually deleted dynamic playlist or whatever |
| 01:51:00 | Quazgaa | old functionality is back |
| 01:51:01 | * | Quazgaa whew |
| 01:51:02 | Quazgaa | :) |
| 01:51:06 | bluebroth3r | nope. |
| 01:51:14 | bluebroth3r | not old functionality is back. It never was gone |
| 01:51:26 | Quazgaa | you know what i mean |
| 01:51:27 | Quazgaa | ;) |
| 01:51:34 | bluebroth3r | you might want to turn "warn when erasing dynamic playlist" off |
| 01:51:41 | Quazgaa | ah ok |
| 01:51:49 | Quazgaa | well thanks for help i need to start dinner |
| 01:51:54 | [Saint] | pixelma: how did you set up the SDK and tools initially? with the commandline or the UI? |
| 01:52:00 | Quazgaa | wanted to put on some music and couldnt even figure out how so i was tearing my hair out |
| 01:52:12 | pixelma | you can also turn this splash off if you are sure you are fine with potential playlist loss |
| 01:52:12 | [Saint] | either way, you pretty much just do it again. |
| 01:52:14 | sideral | Quazgaa: Please consider resetting to default settings by deleting the config file |
| 01:52:22 | Quazgaa | ok |
| 01:52:39 | sideral | I've had a strange enabling of options once as well |
| 01:52:59 | sideral | Even resetting them manually didn't work; had to delete the config file |
| 01:53:12 | sideral | this was in a recent simulator build |
| 01:53:27 | pixelma | [Saint]: I didn't for the way I build those currently and wouldn't be able to ;) |
| 01:53:37 | bluebroth3r | that's realy strange. I never had such issues when updating |
| 01:53:48 | sideral | I haven't been able to reproduce this; maybe you should keep a copy of the cfg file and file a proper bug |
| 01:53:59 | Quazgaa | ok |
| 01:53:59 | pixelma | or allowed to... |
| 01:53:59 | | Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 01:54:32 | sideral | bluebrother: I was quite surprised as well. I was wondering why playback paused every 2 minutes :) |
| 01:54:46 | [Saint] | sideral: bluebroth3r: it's a longstanding bug. |
| 01:54:57 | [Saint] | I have NO IDEA how it works...and drove myself insane chasing it. |
| 01:55:18 | [Saint] | updating can cuase a perfectly valid .cfg to "go nuts" TM |
| 01:55:24 | sideral | the reason was that something turned on car adapter mode, and the sim simulated removing of the power cord every two minutes |
| 01:55:45 | pixelma | [Saint]: also, is it true that I wouldn't get a working apk for my Android 2.1 anymore? |
| 01:55:58 | [Saint] | pixelma: no. |
| 01:56:14 | sideral | I debugged this as far as verifying that the cfg file read routine was writing 0xCB or somesuch into a bool variable |
| 01:56:20 | [Saint] | At least...I do not believe so. |
| 01:57:24 | pixelma | I'll wait a bit for more information - time for sleep anyway |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:13 | [Saint] | sideral: the case I was chasing was the strange enabling of party mode on some targets that updated from 3.6 to 3.7/.1 |
| 02:01:54 | [Saint] | a .cfg that was perfectly valid for .3.6 somehow enabled party mode (which wasn't enabled in the 3.6 .cfg) in 3.7/.1 for some people...I remember seeing other weird variants of it with other config settings also. |
| 02:02:25 | sideral | Saint: Sounds like it could be reproducible |
| 02:02:41 | [Saint] | You'd think so... |
| 02:02:46 | sideral | Perhaps try downgrading / upgrading, then file a bug report? |
| 02:02:51 | [Saint] | I tried and tried and tried... |
| 02:03:20 | sideral | sadly, I haven't kept the cfg file that broke things for me |
| 02:03:41 | sideral | as I was chasing another problem at the time |
| 02:04:04 | bluebroth3r | hmm. Sounds like unit tests could become helpful here :) |
| 02:04:11 | [Saint] | I only have the info I have about it from talking to people in IRC that came in with weird problems thta resembled it, so I took a chance and suggested backing up the .cfg, there was only one case where I managed to narrow the exact setting causing the rouble. |
| 02:04:36 | [Saint] | but, no idea *why* it was, it the .cfg was essentially fine (it was party mode in this case) |
| 02:05:06 | sideral | bluebrother: Unit tests would be pretty cool, but |
| 02:05:48 | sideral | I don't see Rockbox be sufficiently refactored to get rid of cyclic dependencies any time soon |
| 02:05:59 | [Saint] | [14:03] <sideral> sadly, I haven't kept the cfg file that broke things for me <−− that's the thing :/ I've only found one person that experienced it that did have the failing .cfg to play with. |
| 02:06:09 | [Saint] | but, it wasn't very interesting. |
| 02:06:47 | bluebroth3r | sideral: well, isn't that a reason to start? ;-) |
| 02:06:56 | bluebroth3r | but yeah, I see the problem |
| 02:07:13 | sideral | bluebrother: I've gone through the process of levelizing (removing cyclic dependencies in) another software project to make it more unit-testable, and it was a major effort |
| 02:08:12 | sideral | But one thing that helped was a build check that tested that the number of cyclic dependencies did not go up. That made the process incremental |
| 02:08:25 | sideral | and easier to accept for the other developers :) |
| 02:08:35 | bluebroth3r | sideral: sure, someone on his own won't be able to get that done |
| 02:08:52 | bluebroth3r | and cyclic dependencies are evil anyway :) |
| 02:09:19 | sideral | It's hard work to get rid of them |
| 02:09:44 | sideral | But I repeat myself ;) |
| 02:11:08 | sideral | Saint: Let's hope that it's reproducible for Quazgaa, and that he files a nice bug report :p |
| 02:11:42 | sideral | Need to go offline now. Cheers to all! |
| 02:12:12 | [Saint] | o/ |
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| 02:15:09 | | Quit Hadaka (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 02:16:33 | [Saint] | sideral (logs): bluebroth3r: more possible sillyness (or, an accidental keypress (not as interesting)) with .cfg files immediately after an update: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,27425.msg178918.html#msg178918 |
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| 09:21:56 | * | n1s has now installed iloader with the included rockbox version on his classic and wonders how to get files on there |
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| 09:25:48 | [Saint] | n1s: USB no worky? |
| 09:26:15 | n1s | [Saint]: is usb in ockbox supposed to work? |
| 09:26:33 | [Saint] | it is, yes...there's no OF...so, it has to. |
| 09:26:48 | [Saint] | this in linux OS? |
| 09:27:04 | n1s | yes |
| 09:27:26 | n1s | rb shows the usb screen and then nothing happens |
| 09:27:33 | [Saint] | I'm suspecting EHCI craziness...is it a lot of effort to get near a windows OS? |
| 09:28:00 | n1s | and it doesn't exit the screen if i disconnect |
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| 09:28:14 | [Saint] | wow, ok...that's odd. |
| 09:28:36 | [Saint] | I don't think I've heard of that yet, not mounting in linux isn't entirely new though. |
| 09:28:55 | n1s | i'd need to reboot to use windows bu the problem is more that all my music is on an ext4 fs so i'd need to copy it to the windows partition first which is already cramped for space |
| 09:29:13 | [Saint] | Ah. |
| 09:29:43 | n1s | i'll try to reboot and put a current build on there |
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| 09:30:43 | [Saint] | well, right off the bat I suspect the EHCI sillyness that seems to be triggered here somehow, various other devices refuse to mount for some people using linux which is, I believe, the same issue. |
| 09:30:53 | [Saint] | TheSeven is really "the man" here, though. |
| 09:31:32 | n1s | pehaps, this does really make it unusable for me though :( |
| 09:31:40 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
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| 09:33:19 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng049.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 09:33:38 | [Saint] | is it possible for you to unload the EHCI module? |
| 09:34:37 | [Saint] | iirc, some people had success there...I'm not even sure what exactly the bug is, or how it's being triggered. |
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| 09:42:31 | n1s | no luck, doesn't mount in windows either |
| 09:42:54 | [Saint] | that's weird. |
| 09:42:59 | | Join slooopy [0] (~sloo@95-90-30-123-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 09:43:25 | * | bertrik will look at the list of current issues with AMSv2 devices today |
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| 09:57:10 | bertrik | I would very much like the ability to search in flyspray by player type |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:32:53 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:34:23 | JdGordon| | [Saint]: ping? |
| 10:35:00 | [Saint] | yessum? |
| 10:35:01 | | Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) |
| 10:35:29 | JdGordon| | hows your sbs going? |
| 10:35:44 | JdGordon| | trying to decide if i should work on skin vars or dynamic screen size toinght |
| 10:35:54 | JdGordon| | (with the aim of getting at least one commitable tonight) |
| 10:36:34 | [Saint] | the latter I'd say. I'll probably poke my nose into the theme again tonight, but the changes regarding volume require amajor rework. |
| 10:36:45 | [Saint] | *a major |
| 10:38:03 | [Saint] | as now I need to cut the volume icon/tab out of the picture...the latter isn't so bad, as it removes some complexity, but it messed up my symetry pretty bad. |
| 10:38:39 | JdGordon| | ok |
| 10:39:31 | bertrik | ok, I compiled a list of current issues specific to the AMSv2 port - it turns out to be surprisingly long ... :| |
| 10:42:25 | JdGordon| | anyone awake know the scroll engine? |
| 10:49:21 | | Quit CaptainKwel (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 10:50:16 | JdGordon| | ESPAGHETTIMEATBALLLCDCODE |
| 10:56:53 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:04:13 | JdGordon| | thomasjfox: empty submenus really should be hidden, but that isnt so simple (dynamic menus....) protecting against NULL is a simple and doable fix... |
| 11:04:45 | thomasjfox | JdGordon|: I'm just not how sure how the fix should look like exactly |
| 11:05:09 | thomasjfox | JdGordon|: returning from do_menu looks wrong to me |
| 11:05:48 | * | JdGordon| has a look |
| 11:07:28 | JdGordon| | ah, haha stupid repro :p |
| 11:07:39 | JdGordon| | pressing OK inside an empty submenu? bah |
| 11:07:45 | thomasjfox | yep |
| 11:08:25 | thomasjfox | I think the same is true for ACTION_STD_CONTEXT |
| 11:08:39 | [Saint] | JdGordon|: thomasjfox: while you're in that neck of the woods...what about submenus with only one entry? they exist in a few places on different targets, and it seems to me that if that is the case, it should just be the default and not even offer an option. |
| 11:08:59 | JdGordon| | nope |
| 11:09:04 | JdGordon| | thats bad... |
| 11:10:49 | * | thomasjfox found a way to severly disrupt the theme/seek code on the Pandora. Will retry with the SDL app. |
| 11:11:28 | thomasjfox | Very heavy seeking on 1h+ track leads to a suddenly lock up of the seek slider |
| 11:19:27 | JdGordon| | dont do that then! :p |
| 11:20:03 | thomasjfox | I didn't do that myself :o) |
| 11:20:10 | thomasjfox | Rockbox in the news: http://pandorapress.net/2011/03/11/the-next-level-of-pandora-software/ |
| 11:22:52 | * | bluebrother wonders how much work it would be to make convttf compile with Visual Studio |
| 11:24:52 | CIA-2 | New commit by bertrik (r29577): Fix FS #11894 - Sansa Clip+ Volume Buttons don't switch when Upside Down is activated |
| 11:25:41 | | Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@151.62.172.158) |
| 11:26:52 | thomasjfox | the seeking issue is not present on current SDL app / maemo build. Will retry with a new build later on |
| 11:28:18 | CIA-2 | r29577 build result: All green |
| 12:00 |
| 12:02:44 | bluebrother | I'm wondering if there is something different with freetype on Windows. I've managed to build a convttf on Windows using MSVC2005. It runs, but loading the font produces garbage. |
| 12:05:31 | bluebrother | and after loading such a broken font Rockbox gets really slow. Well, the UI that is. |
| 12:08:23 | | Nick kugel_ is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 12:09:05 | kugel | thomasjfox: give this guy track skipping with l and r already :-) |
| 12:10:17 | thomasjfox | kugel: The idea is not that bad ;) |
| 12:10:29 | kugel | Hmm not so quick, the other guy would hate us then |
| 12:10:41 | thomasjfox | Should be a config option |
| 12:10:52 | thomasjfox | right now I'm looking into the SDL audio issue |
| 12:11:21 | kugel | yea, except configurable buttons are a controversial topic here :-) |
| 12:11:27 | thomasjfox | I'm not able to reproduce on my workstation, sample buffer size should be big enough already (2048 samples) |
| 12:12:28 | thomasjfox | kugel: Have you tried using a newish Audi car recently? Configurable buttons sucks :o) |
| 12:12:46 | kugel | no I haven't |
| 12:13:31 | bertrik | thomasjfox, does it have an upside-down mode? |
| 12:14:04 | thomasjfox | bertrik: The car or the pandora port? ;) |
| 12:14:29 | kugel | thomasjfox: perhaps a bug in pandoras sdl? |
| 12:14:58 | thomasjfox | kugel: Either that or maybe some kind of audio conversion is going on (44khz -> 48khz) which messes things up |
| 12:15:25 | thomasjfox | kugel: I'll retry with the latest code + some debug printfs |
| 12:16:29 | thomasjfox | kugel: btw: I got meego up and running on qemu and on my n900 |
| 12:17:19 | kugel | and will you now tackle an raaa port to it? |
| 12:17:49 | thomasjfox | yep, that's what the rpm .spec file is for ;) |
| 12:18:16 | thomasjfox | will share a lot of SDL code like the pandora at first |
| 12:19:06 | thomasjfox | I'm also looking at moving the HAL battery monitoring out of the maemo code as it's the same for the pandora and probably for meego |
| 12:20:06 | thomasjfox | Will have more time to work on this as I just canceled my big vacation for this year (don't guess which country) |
| 12:21:07 | bertrik | saratoga, what do you think about the delays suggested in FS #11870 for the AMSv1 and AMSv2 sd drivers? |
| 12:22:20 | bertrik | I hate to add arbitrary delays to driver code to make things work, but on the other hand I can't really fix this myself in any other way because I can't reproduce it. |
| 12:26:49 | bertrik | How about adding the delays anyway and putting a comment with it referring to FS #11870 ? |
| 12:29:09 | bluebrother | does the dynamic screen size patch allow resizing during runtime? Would be nice to be able supporting display rotation |
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| 12:35:57 | TheSeven | n1s (for the logs): I've seen a similar problem before. Raising Vcore by 0.025V fixed that, so you might have caught a bad piece of silicon... |
| 12:40:05 | TheSeven | can you try updating to http://files.freemyipod.org/misc/installer-ipodclassic.ubi |
| 12:40:09 | TheSeven | that one has a bit higher Vcore |
| 12:45:12 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:46:27 | kugel | bluebrother: no, it does not allow that |
| 12:55:30 | | Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 12:56:53 | CIA-2 | New commit by jethead71 (r29578): Use ringbuf_add in buffering when incrementing for initial allocation of non-wrapping data. The result of the shortcut would have been wrong if the ... |
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| 12:58:42 | JdGordon| | thomasjfox: it should be possible to gracefully back out of the menu if it is empty but I wont really be able to look into it till wednsday night (more likely not till mid next week) |
| 12:58:53 | JdGordon| | so if noone fixes it by them remind me :) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:26 | CIA-2 | r29578 build result: All green |
| 13:01:29 | | Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 13:04:07 | thomasjfox | JdGordon|: I can live with that :) Thanks for looking into this! |
| 13:04:29 | thomasjfox | JdGordon|: I did take a quick look a the dynamic screen size stuff |
| 13:04:48 | thomasjfox | JdGordon|: Didn't see nothing obviously wrong in there |
| 13:09:23 | JdGordon| | ok, apparently I'm confusing people... I'm going to be afk monday night and all tuesday, wed night will be the earliest time anything could be commited by me, next weekend I am almost certainly AFK so dont really expect much of anything from me till after the 22nd... |
| 13:09:41 | JdGordon| | but if i get 5min to commit i just mind if there arent any outstanding issues |
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| 13:33:05 | JdGordon| | slight random brainfart... im fairly sure I could make the themeing stuff handle screen resizing without too much effort (going portrait <-> landscape) |
| 13:46:04 | bluebrother | grmbl. Why does Qt Creator choke on the quoting when passing variables to sub-Makefile? |
| 13:47:02 | CIA-2 | New commit by thomasjfox (r29579): Pandora port: Fix SDL detection, pkg-config is not supported |
| 13:47:40 | JdGordon| | bluebrother: any chance you'd like to try and fix the theme editor so it doesnt popup 2 empty grey windows on startup? |
| 13:48:00 | bluebrother | it pops up two empty grey windows on startup? |
| 13:48:06 | bluebrother | never heard of that. Which platform? |
| 13:48:10 | JdGordon| | you dont get that? |
| 13:48:11 | JdGordon| | linux |
| 13:48:28 | bluebrother | no. |
| 13:48:48 | bluebrother | will check later, currently trying to figure the Rockbox Utility issue with creating voice files on Windows |
| 13:49:02 | JdGordon| | damn :p its one of the reasons i stay away from it |
| 13:50:27 | bluebrother | Windows or Rockbox Utility? ;-) |
| 13:50:41 | JdGordon| | the theme editor.... |
| 13:51:37 | bluebrother | heap block was modified after it was freed. Doesn't sound good :( |
| 13:52:06 | CIA-2 | r29579 build result: All green |
| 13:53:31 | gevaerts | bluebrother: remove all free() calls. Problem solved :) |
| 13:54:06 | bluebrother | gevaerts: hmm, then I need to overload all destructors in Qt classes :) |
| 13:54:35 | gevaerts | Serves you right for using C++ :) |
| 13:55:07 | bluebrother | this playback breaks when screen turns back on issue is really annoying |
| 13:55:29 | bluebrother | well, wasn't me who started using c++. The wxwidgets version also was c++ :) |
| 13:59:03 | bluebrother | nevertheless I wouldn't want to write a GUI application on a PC in C. |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:33 | JdGordon| | yeah, but c++ wouldnt be close to my first choice either |
| 14:01:13 | bluebrother | what other options do you have if you want to support three different platforms and need to use platform specific OS functions? |
| 14:01:57 | JdGordon| | "dont write gui apps for PC" :p |
| 14:02:05 | JdGordon| | c#/mono |
| 14:02:44 | * | bluebrother goes throwing up |
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| 14:36:31 | gevaerts | kugel: do you have some idea on which of those unfinished ideas on the mailing list should be put on the ideas pae? |
| 14:36:34 | gevaerts | *page |
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| 14:38:42 | kugel | all of them? :) |
| 14:41:36 | gevaerts | Zagor questioned the native widgets yesterday |
| 14:44:23 | gevaerts | hm |
| 14:44:46 | bertrik | gevaerts, what kind of widget do you mean, an android ui element, or an android application 'shortcut'? |
| 14:44:54 | gevaerts | UI elements |
| 14:45:04 | gevaerts | i.e. "native GUI" |
| 14:45:39 | gevaerts | I'm starting to think that none of those ideas on the mailing list are finished enough to even use as "unfinished ideas |
| 14:46:23 | gevaerts | Except maybe the various "Database playback misses feature X compared to file browser playback" ones |
| 14:47:52 | thomasjfox | kugel: The pandora audio issue is gone. Either it was tools/configure picking up the wrong SDL version/compile flags or something fixed in HEAD |
| 14:48:18 | kugel | well as I see it, unfinished ideas implies that a) there needs to be addional thinking and discussion before applying for it and b) that this additional discussion might end up rejecting the idea in the end |
| 14:49:53 | gevaerts | Yes, but I'm not sure if we want ideas that have a reasonable chance of being rejected on the list |
| 14:51:29 | [Saint] | wouldn;t that be "all unfinished ideas" then? |
| 14:52:17 | gevaerts | no |
| 14:53:36 | [Saint] | point b of kugel's statement seems to suggest so. how could one know beforehand the likelyhood of an idea being rejected based on the idea expanding beyond what it is now? |
| 14:55:08 | gevaerts | Some ideas have been simmering for long enough that we know more or less what to expect. They just haven't been written up in enough detail |
| 14:55:23 | [Saint] | Hmmm, good point. |
| 14:56:56 | gevaerts | It's still possible to suggest a "wrong" solution for those of course |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:09 | gevaerts | Things like "Fix database vs file browser inconsistencies" is one of those. People who've been involved for a while all know what that means, I don't think anyone objects to this, but I haven't seen a concise and clear description of what it involves |
| 15:01:14 | bertrik | Can we still submit ideas, or has the time window closed on that? |
| 15:01:48 | gevaerts | bertrik: we can, but they might not be taken into account by the google people to rank us |
| 15:02:02 | kugel | you can always submit ideas, they needn't even be on the ideas page |
| 15:02:20 | kugel | but if you want google to see them they should :) |
| 15:03:35 | gevaerts | well, that's the point :) Google might not see them any more now (they were going to work during the weekend too when looking at org applications, so they may have looked at ours already), but students will see them |
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| 15:05:45 | | Quit esperegu (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 15:06:34 | gevaerts | So if you have worked out ideas that you believe are not controversial, please put them on the ideas page! |
| 15:06:52 | CIA-2 | New commit by thomasjfox (r29580): Prepare new Pandora .pnd build |
| 15:07:22 | gevaerts | And if you think you're not unsuitable to mentor some projects, please also add your name for that |
| 15:08:07 | bertrik | gevaerts, I think I'll skip on being a mentor, I'm busy enough already with my day job |
| 15:10:25 | CIA-2 | r29580 build result: All green |
| 15:11:05 | | Quit user890104 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 15:13:35 | bertrik | the idea I had is to make it possible to use ipod accessories on non-PP ipods (nano 2g and ipod classic). Work to be done is to refactor the iap code, decouple the serial port interrupt from the iap code, create a simple serial port api, understand & document the iap autobaud code, and generally make it work. Final result is a working peripheral on a non-PP ipod and having the iap autobaud code documented. This might not be enough work for a |
| 15:13:36 | bertrik | gsoc though. |
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| 15:19:05 | bertrik | OTOH, I don't know what constitutes "enough work" for gsoc. If google is fine with it and it helps rockbox, I'm fine with it too. |
| 15:19:50 | thomasjfox | kugel: Crap, the SDL audio issue is not solved. Just doesn't seem to appear every time. Time for an alsa backend |
| 15:20:34 | gevaerts | Is that enough work, and how risky is it? |
| 15:25:29 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 15:26:23 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 15:26:24 | bertrik | Entirely doable I think, if apple can make it work, so should we. The student would need a non-PP ipod + accessory, provided by rockbox devs. The only really new code would a serial port driver for the s5l870x, the rest is restructuring/refactoring. |
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| 15:29:14 | bertrik | Actually, I wouldn't mind working on it myself, if I had the hardware. |
| 15:29:17 | gevaerts | Apple has documentation |
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| 15:36:36 | n1s | TheSeven: i don't get anything on either linux or windows when trying umsboot from the iloader menu so i don't know how to update |
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| 15:39:18 | TheSeven | huh? how did you install it then? |
| 15:40:06 | n1s | i just followed the instructions here http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/IPod_Classic_iLoader_Installation and that worked |
| 15:40:47 | TheSeven | yeah, but that stopped working after you installed it? or what's going on? |
| 15:41:45 | n1s | ah, i forgot to try the dfu thing, that should work then? neither rockbox usb nor iloader umsboot does |
| 15:42:01 | TheSeven | yeah, that's both after configuring the voltages |
| 15:42:07 | TheSeven | dfu-based umsboot should work though |
| 15:42:17 | n1s | ok, i'll reboot again then |
| 15:42:23 | TheSeven | wait a second |
| 15:42:31 | n1s | ok |
| 15:42:31 | TheSeven | while it's in the iloader menu, does it show up in lsusb? |
| 15:43:21 | n1s | nope |
| 15:43:26 | n1s | nothing in dmesg either |
| 15:43:37 | TheSeven | ok, so the usb core is completely down |
| 15:43:45 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 15:43:48 | TheSeven | now try updating through DFU and check if things get better |
| 15:44:04 | n1s | yeah, i'll need to reboot to windows |
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| 15:50:00 | bluebrother | hmm, the Windows version of espeak can not be accesses via SAPI. |
| 15:50:03 | bluebrother | *now |
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| 15:56:31 | n1s | ok, so installing the new iloader through dfu worked but umsboot still gives nothing in either linux or windows and now rockbox dies with "ATA error -1 press ON to debug" |
| 15:56:53 | pixelma | bluebrother: could be for a long time already (as long as I remember) |
| 15:56:57 | TheSeven | now that's strange |
| 15:57:00 | n1s | pressing any button prins out the gpio ports and usec timer |
| 15:57:23 | n1s | waith error -11 |
| 15:57:40 | TheSeven | can you retry? i've seen those occasionally as well, but not during the last weeks |
| 15:57:42 | bluebrother | pixelma: might be but I've never noticed. I rarely use espeak on Windows anyway, so ... ;-) |
| 15:58:10 | CIA-2 | New commit by bluebrother (r29581): Improve visual feedback when testing TTS. ... |
| 15:59:02 | bertrik | Is anyone here with an AMSv2 hearing a short buzz when pausing audio? |
| 15:59:47 | n1s | TheSeven: retry starting rockbox? it happens every time so far ~5 times |
| 15:59:53 | TheSeven | hm, damn |
| 16:00 |
| 16:01:28 | CIA-2 | r29581 build result: All green |
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| 16:04:18 | dfkt | bertrik, yes |
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| 16:05:08 | bertrik | I guess this is related to the DC level issue, with the buzz caused by the volume changes during fade in/out |
| 16:05:31 | dfkt | it also buzzes shortly at un-pausing as well |
| 16:05:39 | alpha_one_x86 | Hello, this firmware is based on what? linux BSD? compatible player have usb 3 support? |
| 16:06:08 | bertrik | the AMSv1 has a bit to change the volume only during zero-crossing of the firmware, the AMSv2 doesn't seem to have that bit anymore according to the documentation, but I guess it's still there. |
| 16:06:21 | bertrik | s/firmware/wave form/ |
| 16:06:48 | dfkt | the click at turning the player on and off is something else than the pause buzz? |
| 16:07:33 | gevaerts | alpha_one_x86: rockbox isn't based on any other kernel, and I've never heard of any portable audio player with USB 3 hardware |
| 16:07:43 | bertrik | I don't know if that's related |
| 16:08:04 | simon___ | TheSeven: I just updated myself on the IRC logs, I also had the problem with the USB not working, you're saying this is fixed now? |
| 16:08:20 | simon___ | In that case, I'll also try it now. |
| 16:08:36 | alpha_one_x86 | My target is have mp3 player + virtual drive extension (for emulate cdrom from iso) |
| 16:09:41 | TheSeven | simon___: well, apparently it isn't fixed for everyone :/ |
| 16:09:48 | TheSeven | but some people claimed that things started working recently |
| 16:10:03 | simon___ | I'll try it and report back :) |
| 16:10:18 | TheSeven | alpha_one_x86: and why would you need usb3 for that? |
| 16:12:46 | alpha_one_x86 | TheSeven: For nothing, I want just use this object for listen music when I not use to emulate cdrom |
| 16:13:44 | TheSeven | are there even flash-based mp3 players that manage to use the full usb2 bandwidth? |
| 16:13:52 | simon___ | TheSeven: Works great here! |
| 16:15:17 | bertrik | TheSeven, I don't think so |
| 16:15:17 | bertrik | USB2.0 high-speed allows up to something like 50 MB/s, I think our targets go up to 10 MB/s max, right? |
| 16:15:33 | TheSeven | 30-40MB/s are more realistic though |
| 16:16:48 | alpha_one_x86 | To install OS on DVD iso, and with SSD I need more bandwith |
| 16:17:14 | linuxstb | TheSeven: Reading the instructions here - http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/IPod_Classic_iLoader_Installation - how does uninstallation work? I see it requires itunes, but what does iloader need to do in order to make itunes want to restore? |
| 16:17:50 | TheSeven | it needs to restore some things on the boot flash to factory state to make itunes happy |
| 16:18:08 | TheSeven | otherwise itunes seems to get confused because it can't detect if it's a nano3g or classic |
| 16:18:36 | bluebrother | hmm, after going through the svn logs there was quite a bit of changes in Rockbox Utility. |
| 16:18:40 | TheSeven | this could be solved, it's just a relic from copying the boot flash "file system" code from the nano2g |
| 16:18:53 | TheSeven | so i just "format" the boot flash the same way, which itunes doesn't like |
| 16:19:13 | bluebrother | might even justify a new release. Though I'd really like to get something done about the voicefile thing on Windows first :o |
| 16:19:44 | bertrik | dfkt, I just found out that I hear the buzz too when just inserting the headphones, so it's probably not related to rockbox fading but rather some hw thing instead |
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| 16:24:46 | linuxstb | TheSeven: OK. It's also not clear what mode the ipod is in for uninstallation - is it in DFU mode? |
| 16:25:48 | TheSeven | no, you just remove the iloader config and it will ask whether it should uninstall itself during the next boot |
| 16:26:41 | TheSeven | that whole setup is currently a bit fragile and easy to semi-brick (in terms of needing some command line hackery to recover) |
| 16:27:53 | TheSeven | i have something more stable in mind, but i haven't gotten around to implementing it yet |
| 16:27:53 | linuxstb | But what USB mode is it in when itunes restores? The last two lines mention DFU mode |
| 16:27:53 | TheSeven | itunes will pick up DFU mode and boot disk mode through it |
| 16:28:18 | linuxstb | What was your installation idea that involved using custom SCSI commands in UMS mode? |
| 16:30:47 | TheSeven | that would possibly allow a nano2g-like setup with a rockbox bootloader, but i haven't figured out the details yet |
| 16:30:48 | bertrik | ok, I can fix the buzz on fade in/out on AMSv2, but it's replaced by a tick ... :\ |
| 16:32:41 | TheSeven | it seems like the LLB is vulnerable to pwnage 2.0 as well, so we could boot our bootloader through an exploit |
| 16:32:56 | TheSeven | however they can in theory patch that |
| 16:33:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:33:10 | TheSeven | i doubt they will bother though |
| 16:34:01 | TheSeven | i did a proof-of-concept exploit during very early development, and it seemed to somewhat work, but we need to further investigate that |
| 16:34:30 | TheSeven | also that weird SCSI protocol needs to be reversed, and we need to make ipodpatcher use it |
| 16:34:55 | TheSeven | seems to be something similar to this: http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/Nano4G_firmware_upgrade_process |
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| 16:44:08 | | Join simon___ [0] (~simon@static-212.214.179.102.addr.tdcsong.se) |
| 16:44:41 | simon___ | TheSeven: Seems that I lied to you. USB still doesn't work on my Classic. Only after the first boot. |
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| 16:47:31 | | Quit |alpha_one_x86| (Client Quit) |
| 16:49:02 | | Quit alpha_one_x86 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 16:49:23 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
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| 16:54:14 | | Join webguest33 [0] (~6eae8115@giant.haxx.se) |
| 16:54:49 | webguest33 | Hi |
| 16:55:23 | webguest33 | Are you guys able to bootstrap a bootloader on last years ipod nanos yet? |
| 16:55:30 | webguest33 | No idea what gen they call things.. |
| 16:56:23 | stripwax | webguest33. no. http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/Status |
| 16:56:54 | stripwax | i strongly doubt anybody at all is working on that device |
| 16:57:11 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 16:57:32 | webguest33 | oh really stripwax ? Is it lack of hw? |
| 16:57:42 | | Nick webguest33 is now known as evo (~6eae8115@giant.haxx.se) |
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| 16:57:45 | stripwax | "lack of hw"? |
| 16:58:04 | stripwax | isn't it essentially something like a small ipod touch? (or does it just give that impression). if so, not sure we would wan to run a bootloader on it. the device can run apps. |
| 16:58:12 | evo | whoever does not have a ipod and jtag |
| 16:58:14 | stripwax | ^want |
| 16:58:38 | evo | Ah well, I mean, porting effort.. |
| 16:58:47 | evo | as in getting your kernel going on it. |
| 16:59:16 | gevaerts | People who want to work on this *will* get the hardware |
| 16:59:33 | evo | I have the model number here, its A1320 |
| 16:59:38 | gevaerts | But you have to realise that being a rockbox developer does not mean that one cares about new ipods |
| 16:59:39 | stripwax | evo: as I said, I doubt anybody is working on that, and I doubt anybody even feels it is worth the effort since the device can anyways run apps (i think?) |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:33 | stripwax | evo: oh you mean the 5th generation, not the 6th generation? so.. not last year's model in fact at all? |
| 17:00:48 | evo | I'm not sure.. I just want to change the firmware from Apples to something else that is not so screwy to work with my FreeBSD system.. i.e. does not insist on itunes and its werid protocals.. |
| 17:01:01 | stripwax | evo: you do NOT need to use itunes. |
| 17:01:06 | evo | um, well I got it last year :p |
| 17:01:07 | stripwax | but that is obviously offtopic here |
| 17:01:38 | evo | I have no idea about these things, I don't normally work on these kinds of projects in kernel space |
| 17:01:41 | stripwax | evo - it came out in 2009 :) |
| 17:01:46 | evo | Just looking for a hand |
| 17:01:52 | | Join esperegu [0] (~quassel@145.116.15.244) |
| 17:01:58 | evo | sure ok |
| 17:02:09 | evo | I got it in 2010, but anyway. |
| 17:02:22 | evo | Any recommendations? |
| 17:02:25 | stripwax | evo - well, i think the situation is the same sadly; i doubt anybody is working on porting rockbox to that particular device. |
| 17:02:31 | gevaerts | The freemyipod status page suggests that we're not close to rockbox on it |
| 17:02:32 | | Quit HaimN (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 17:02:58 | | Quit esperegu_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 17:03:03 | evo | OK, what's involved? You guys have some kind of make shift JTAG or ? |
| 17:03:04 | stripwax | evo: if you just want to 'not use itunes' there should be plenty of free alternatives (but as I say, that's offtopic here) |
| 17:03:07 | gevaerts | Possibly people in #freemyipod know more details though, such as what "Code execution: No" means exactly (i.e. do they have clues?) |
| 17:03:39 | stripwax | evo: I doubt anyone has tried to jtag the 5th gen (or 6th gen) ipod nanos |
| 17:03:45 | gevaerts | I very much doubt if jtag pins are accessible on those |
| 17:03:56 | evo | I rather if I could just change the firmware, your kernel looks pretty simple in design from what I saw on wikipedia |
| 17:04:20 | evo | Well.. that's what I am asking, how do you normally port on such devices? |
| 17:04:21 | stripwax | evo: you are more than welcome to try, and investigate the secrets of this apple hardware/firmware |
| 17:04:38 | stripwax | evo: volunteers do it (such as yourself) |
| 17:04:41 | evo | Your going to need to throw me a bone here ;) |
| 17:04:45 | stripwax | evo: read this: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort |
| 17:04:50 | evo | ta |
| 17:09:17 | evo | ok this looks useful ta |
| 17:11:00 | | Quit akzfowl (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 17:11:05 | evo | typically how hard are these Apple things to first crack? |
| 17:11:44 | gevaerts | "very" |
| 17:11:45 | evo | Do they have cyptographic sumchecking for the firmware and 'advanced' things like that to stop you from doing this sort of thing? |
| 17:12:16 | evo | It would be handy to have some background here to gain metrics on things.. |
| 17:12:20 | gevaerts | From what I understand, not justcryptographic signing, but full encryption |
| 17:12:36 | evo | umm, what do you mean? |
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| 17:13:54 | gevaerts | But I'd recommend asking in #freemyipod. The people there are more likely to be knowledgeable about this (although most of them also hang out here) |
| 17:15:27 | evo | ok thanks, i'm off to bed. I consider this if its worth my time or if I should just sell the dam thing on ebay and buy something that is not such junk |
| 17:15:51 | evo | I assumed people would be very active to port Linux or what not to ipod hw. |
| 17:17:37 | evo | night |
| 17:18:03 | | Quit evo (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 17:18:10 | gevaerts | There aren't that many people who care enough to spend the needed effort |
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| 17:21:11 | | Join balintx [0] (~quassel@szerver1.gulyasp-koll.sulinet.hu) |
| 17:23:06 | bertrik | when should audiohw_preinit typically be called? |
| 17:25:33 | bertrik | (I'm looking at various buzzes, clicks and DC levels for AMSv2 by the way) |
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| 17:37:38 | | Quit balintx (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 17:47:36 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 17:52:35 | bertrik | the buzz on fade-out and fade-in on AMSv2 seems to be related to changing the mixer volume (we adjust both the mixer volume and the headphone stage volume to get a greater dynamic range for volume control) |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:12:14 | | Join kristianpaul [0] (~kristianp@unaffiliated/kristianpaul) |
| 18:12:22 | kristianpaul | Hi |
| 18:12:50 | kristianpaul | Anyone here is porting rockbox to the ben nanonote or can tell me a bit about the state of that idea? |
| 18:13:35 | stripwax | i don't think it's an idea that i've seen discussed before. |
| 18:13:52 | stripwax | kristianpaul : read this please: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort |
| 18:13:57 | kristianpaul | oh sure, i just "heard" was told.. |
| 18:13:58 | kristianpaul | ok |
| 18:14:27 | kristianpaul | stripwax: also i'm not willing too, just asking ;-) |
| 18:14:41 | stripwax | kristianpaul - read this first, in that case: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TargetStatus#New_Platforms_Currently_Under_Development |
| 18:14:43 | kristianpaul | I just like mus |
| 18:14:48 | kristianpaul | ic |
| 18:14:59 | gevaerts | That's one of those weird mini linux systems, right? |
| 18:15:58 | gevaerts | If you have sdl on it, the sdl app *may* run out of the box. It's unlikely to be optimal though |
| 18:16:16 | kristianpaul | its a pocketcomputer |
| 18:16:25 | kristianpaul | i also run X (Jlime) |
| 18:16:34 | stripwax | yep, if it runs linux, then it could run the rockbox sdl app. |
| 18:16:55 | kristianpaul | ah, i tought it was a OS too |
| 18:16:57 | kristianpaul | ockbox |
| 18:17:00 | gevaerts | It is |
| 18:17:03 | kristianpaul | Rockbox |
| 18:17:04 | kristianpaul | ok |
| 18:17:16 | gevaerts | Well, it's both these days, depending on what you want to run it on |
| 18:17:36 | kristianpaul | yeah, i guess when people want more that listen to music, linux save the day?.. |
| 18:17:53 | stripwax | ? |
| 18:18:11 | kristianpaul | i mean, rockbox is just music player, no more isnt? |
| 18:18:16 | gevaerts | Basically |
| 18:18:20 | kristianpaul | or not willing to do more i hope |
| 18:18:21 | stripwax | rockbox has apps too (plugins) |
| 18:18:46 | stripwax | so does linux. so does windows and iOS for that matter; not sure how relevant linux is to this discussion |
| 18:19:07 | kristianpaul | is not |
| 18:19:08 | gevaerts | I know someone is working on getting rockbox to run (as an application) on the zipit, which I understand is a similar sort of device as the nanonote |
| 18:19:20 | kristianpaul | okay, i got my answers, i leave now |
| 18:19:27 | kristianpaul | You are very helpfull :-) |
| 18:19:30 | kristianpaul | THanks |
| 18:19:53 | | Part kristianpaul |
| 18:20:25 | * | gevaerts doesn't really understand the point of these scale models of laptops |
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| 18:21:33 | stripwax | smaller and more portable. the same way some smartphones are like small PCs. |
| 18:21:56 | gevaerts | Yes, but surely there's a limit on how small you can go while still being useful? |
| 18:22:30 | gevaerts | This nanonote thing has a 3" screen, and the keyboard is about the same size |
| 18:23:10 | gevaerts | And as far as I can see no network |
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| 18:24:40 | | Quit kkurbjun (Changing host) |
| 18:24:41 | | Join kkurbjun [0] (~kkurbjun@rockbox/developer/kkurbjun) |
| 18:26:17 | kkurbjun | gevaerts: are you around? I have some questions on USB enumeration and would like to solicit some ideas on why it would be stopping part-way in the bootloader. |
| 18:26:52 | gevaerts | I'm around for a few more minutes, yes |
| 18:27:13 | gevaerts | hm, apparently not... |
| 18:27:20 | kkurbjun | great, well - I see enumeration working up till the set configuration response |
| 18:27:26 | gevaerts | I'll be back in half an hour to an hour at most |
| 18:27:32 | kkurbjun | ok, no worries |
| 18:30:51 | | Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 18:33:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:43:47 | | Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 18:45:23 | | Quit m1k3y (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 18:56:16 | gevaerts | kkurbjun: I'm back |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:03:11 | kkurbjun | gevaerts: so the issue that I am running into is that USB works fine with the standard build, but not with the bootloader |
| 19:03:33 | kkurbjun | I am seeing the bootloader get through enumeration up till set configuration |
| 19:04:02 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:04:03 | kkurbjun | but it doesn't send the next device descriptor after that |
| 19:04:09 | gevaerts | hm |
| 19:04:13 | * | gevaerts thinks |
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| 19:04:47 | kkurbjun | I don't see the USB thread run again after that final set configuration, but I think that is because the final device descriptor is never requested by the host |
| 19:04:54 | kkurbjun | at least I don't see it sent on wireshark |
| 19:06:22 | gevaerts | What I'd expect after the set configuration is a GET_MAX_LUN, at least if it's mass storage |
| 19:06:28 | gevaerts | Does lsusb work on it? |
| 19:07:01 | kkurbjun | I see the device in the list on lsusb |
| 19:07:04 | | Quit liar (Read error: No route to host) |
| 19:07:18 | gevaerts | Can you try lsusb -v -d <vendor:device>? |
| 19:07:28 | gevaerts | And if so, pastebin the output |
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| 19:09:06 | kkurbjun | this is the working output from the main build: http://pastebin.com/fenYk3tu |
| 19:11:53 | kkurbjun | in the normal build I see a set configuration and then a "get descriptor string" with a 92 byte response that has some hex information like 0x5403330033, then a "request RPIPE", a get descriptor rpipe, response, then everything takes place on ep1 or 2 |
| 19:12:03 | kkurbjun | let me get the failing output from lsusb |
| 19:12:54 | kkurbjun | this is the failing output: http://pastebin.com/PZrVcSYi |
| 19:13:11 | gevaerts | Right |
| 19:13:15 | gevaerts | " bNumInterfaces 0 |
| 19:13:19 | gevaerts | That's the problem |
| 19:13:42 | gevaerts | It tells the host it's a USB device that does nothing, so the host responds by doing nothing |
| 19:13:58 | kkurbjun | interesting - what would cause that? |
| 19:14:20 | gevaerts | I suspect there's something wrong with some defines or ifdefs somewhere that cause usb_storage.c not to be hooked up |
| 19:14:50 | | Join IR7738 [0] (~ircap8@190.22.57.232) |
| 19:16:18 | kkurbjun | hmm, looks like I might need to define have_bootloader_usb_mode |
| 19:16:39 | kkurbjun | :), thanks for looking at that - I was thinking there might be something wrong with the driver |
| 19:16:50 | kkurbjun | I was definitely looking in the wrong place |
| 19:17:14 | gevaerts | The driver will be wrong next, after you fix this :) |
| 19:17:29 | kkurbjun | haha |
| 19:17:45 | gevaerts | That |
| 19:17:53 | gevaerts | That's how the world works! |
| 19:19:07 | IR7738 | ,15 ,14 ,1,01 http://www.mediafire.com/?fbh7c71zfc4dv5f descargar banda emergente chilena apoyemos ,01,14 ,15 |
| 19:19:15 | stripwax | huh? |
| 19:19:37 | maraz | "Chilean pop band we support download" |
| 19:21:09 | IR7738 | ,15 ,14 ,1,01 thrash ,01,14 ,15 |
| 19:21:24 | gevaerts | IR7738: please stop that |
| 19:21:30 | kkurbjun | yep, looks like there is something else wrong now - now I don't see proper enumeration at all |
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| 19:22:16 | IR7738 | ,15 ,14 ,1,01 ok ,01,14 ,15 |
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| 19:24:06 | * | bluebrother summons domonoky |
| 19:27:36 | | Quit akzfowl (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 19:27:49 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Bagder" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:28:00 | Mode | "#rockbox +b *!*@190.22.57.232" by Bagder (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 19:28:14 | Kick | (#rockbox IR7738 :IR7738) by Bagder!~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder |
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| 19:35:27 | Mode | "#rockbox -o Bagder" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:35:31 | craftychop | hello there! |
| 19:36:11 | craftychop | where can I find the source code of the applications installed in rockbox? |
| 19:36:25 | Bagder | they're all in the same single source |
| 19:36:40 | Bagder | best gotten off the svn server |
| 19:38:41 | craftychop | Bagder: so I've to read the rockbox source code to view the source code of an app? |
| 19:39:18 | Bagder | the "apps" that we call plugins are in the apps/plugins directory |
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| 19:41:19 | craftychop | okay but I can't find the source code of the plugin called resistor.rock |
| 19:41:28 | craftychop | where exaclty is it |
| 19:41:28 | craftychop | ? |
| 19:41:46 | gevaerts | apps/plugins/resistor.c |
| 19:45:21 | craftychop | well, probably I still don't understand well, on my device (an Ipod 1st gen), the application path is: .rockbox/rocks/appls... but I can't find any sources dot c |
| 19:45:42 | craftychop | rocks/apps* |
| 19:50:55 | Bagder | on your device? we're talking about the source code tree |
| 19:52:26 | craftychop | and where can I find the source code tree? |
| 19:53:34 | Bagder | off the svn server or in a downloaded tarball |
| 19:57:19 | craftychop | okay thanks... |
| 19:59:22 | | Quit craftychop (Quit: leaving) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:03:44 | | Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
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| 20:25:27 | CIA-2 | New commit by Buschel (r29582): Refactor reading of Xing/Info/Vbri tags to prepare for further changes. |
| 20:26:08 | | Join panni_ [0] (hannes@ip-178-203-73-7.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 20:28:31 | CIA-2 | r29582 build result: All green |
| 20:33:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 20:40:20 | | Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 20:42:53 | simon___ | TheSeven: I told you before that I got USB working on the Classic. Unfortunately, after a reboot, it stopped working again. Just like before :-/ |
| 20:43:26 | TheSeven | yeah, apparently we're fighting two completely different issues causing similar behavior |
| 20:43:40 | TheSeven | yours doesn't lock up when connecting to usb in rockbox, does it= |
| 20:43:55 | simon___ | It does lock up. |
| 20:44:13 | TheSeven | so it doesn't return to the normal menu after disconnecting? |
| 20:44:18 | simon___ | When I remove the cable, it's stuck there. |
| 20:44:24 | simon___ | Correct. |
| 20:44:26 | TheSeven | dammit |
| 20:44:32 | TheSeven | so the behavior is exactly identical |
| 20:44:39 | simon___ | Yep. |
| 20:44:53 | TheSeven | however it seems to be caused by too low vcore on some, and by not properly initializing something on others |
| 20:45:17 | simon___ | Is there anything I could do to debug? |
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| 20:45:29 | TheSeven | nothing that I know of... |
| 20:45:39 | TheSeven | except for maybe trying to bisect where it gets stuck |
| 20:45:48 | TheSeven | but that isn't going to be easy |
| 20:46:40 | simon___ | I see.... |
| 20:47:08 | simon___ | There's no point in trying with even higher voltage? |
| 20:49:35 | TheSeven | the fact that it works when booted through DFU and fails after a power cycle tells me that it can't be the voltage |
| 20:49:49 | TheSeven | well, unless i'm missing something subtle at least |
| 20:49:56 | TheSeven | n1s: can you check if yours behaves the same way? |
| 20:50:27 | TheSeven | e.g. does USB work if you connect to rockbox or umsboot USB before powering it down for the first time after installation? |
| 20:50:41 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:51:17 | simon___ | I tried again now, it doesn't get to the USB screen, it just freezes. In earlier builds, it goes to the USB screen and the freezes. |
| 20:51:49 | TheSeven | did you install on windows or linux? |
| 20:52:00 | simon___ | I installed on linux. |
| 20:52:05 | n1s | TheSeven: sure, which ubi file should i use? |
| 20:52:14 | TheSeven | shouldn't matter |
| 20:52:23 | TheSeven | just use the one that's currently flashed anyway |
| 20:52:37 | TheSeven | or maybe don't use an installer at all |
| 20:52:46 | TheSeven | you can boot rockbox directly through umsboot |
| 20:52:55 | n1s | that's the newer one so rockbox doesn't start but i can try umsboot |
| 20:52:59 | TheSeven | just rename rockbox.bin (not rockbox.ipod) to rockbox.ubi and throw it into umsboot |
| 20:53:07 | simon___ | That's what I do, just boot rockbox directly to add files. |
| 20:53:24 | simon___ | It's a workaround for now :) |
| 20:54:18 | n1s | so boot into dfu moed, run the installer thing and then drop rockbox.ubi on the ramdisk? |
| 20:54:28 | TheSeven | simon___: which bootloader are you using? iloader or emcore? |
| 20:55:21 | TheSeven | n1s: if you mean the bootstrapper and not the installer, then yes |
| 20:55:29 | n1s | yes |
| 20:55:46 | simon___ | Is emcore the flashy 3D-menu? That's the one I use. |
| 20:55:52 | TheSeven | please grab a checkout from http://svn.freemyipod.org/emcore/trunk/tools |
| 20:56:09 | simon___ | Me? |
| 20:56:11 | TheSeven | yep |
| 20:56:25 | simon___ | Done |
| 20:56:42 | | Quit TheLemonMan_ (Quit: Destructor called) |
| 20:56:45 | | Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called) |
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| 20:59:25 | simon___ | What do I do with it? |
| 20:59:30 | CIA-2 | New commit by Buschel (r29583): Add up skipped bytes when parsing for valid MPEG headers. |
| 20:59:55 | TheSeven | the ipod does not show up in lsusb if it's in the boot menu? |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:36 | TheSeven | but connecting usb does not crash the boot menu either? |
| 21:01:06 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 21:01:08 | | Quit FoH (Quit: restarting mIRC, so it knows what time it is) |
| 21:01:09 | simon___ | That's correct |
| 21:03:04 | CIA-2 | r29583 build result: All green |
| 21:03:04 | TheSeven | bugger... i really need a tool that allows configuring voltages using the clickwheel... |
| 21:04:23 | saratoga | bertrik: I think those delays should probably go in since they seem to improve compatibility quite a bit |
| 21:04:47 | TheSeven | simon___: hm, does usb also break after menu+select, or only after a clean powerdown? |
| 21:05:22 | simon___ | I'll try. |
| 21:08:57 | simon___ | Does it matter if I use emcore or iLoader? |
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| 21:09:07 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 21:09:07 | TheSeven | only for the set of tools needed :) |
| 21:09:16 | TheSeven | emcore has a newer version of the usb debugging interface |
| 21:09:41 | TheSeven | and the newer emcore builds use a higher value for Vcore |
| 21:09:52 | simon___ | Okay. |
| 21:09:53 | simon___ | :) |
| 21:10:54 | n1s | TheSeven: yes, usb in rockbox worked after booting it from the dfu bootstrapper, the wheel and buttons didn't work after disconnect though... |
| 21:11:42 | simon___ | Try going in to hold mode and back, that sometimes solves that :) |
| 21:11:50 | TheSeven | factory config is 1e:17 22:2f, HEAD emcore uses 1e:0f 22:22 |
| 21:12:15 | n1s | i tried that, no difference the hold itself worked though since the backlight went off when i toggled it |
| 21:12:26 | simon___ | Is it http://builds.freemyipod.org/emcore/target/ipodclassic/emcore-ipodclassic-r650.bin I should flash? |
| 21:12:44 | TheSeven | you can't flash that directly without wrapping it into an installer |
| 21:12:52 | TheSeven | which revision is the build you currently have? |
| 21:12:53 | saratoga | how is bass boost different from EQ? |
| 21:13:07 | TheSeven | saratoga: one being software and one being hardware eq? |
| 21:13:08 | simon___ | Is there a installer for emcore? |
| 21:13:22 | saratoga | TheSeven: at least on Clip I think theres no hardware EQ |
| 21:13:24 | TheSeven | well, I think you used that already? |
| 21:13:53 | saratoga | so if i enable bass boost is it just turning on an EQ band for me? |
| 21:13:55 | simon___ | Yeah, I found it in the IRC logs earlier today, forgot the URL |
| 21:14:25 | | Join stripwax__ [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:14:29 | n1s | saratoga: i think i remember the software bass treble things are implemented with simpler filters making them supposedly sound better than just using shelving filters in our EQ but i don't know much about this stuff |
| 21:14:32 | | Quit linuxstb (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 21:14:41 | n1s | they are definitely separate though |
| 21:15:09 | n1s | preglow: probably knows though |
| 21:15:33 | simon___ | Found it, http://files.freemyipod.org/misc/installer-ipodclassic.ubi right? |
| 21:15:53 | | Quit stripwax (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 21:16:12 | m1k3y | Zagor: if you remember me from yesterday |
| 21:16:23 | saratoga | n1s: it looks like the software tone controls call eq_filter |
| 21:16:30 | simon___ | Hey, earlier today, that url gave me the emcore file?! |
| 21:16:34 | saratoga | so i wonder how the precut needs to be set if bass boost is enabled |
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| 21:16:44 | simon___ | Now I'm confused |
| 21:16:57 | m1k3y | Zagor: we discussed the possibility of porting existing plugins to Android |
| 21:18:04 | m1k3y | Zagor: is there any merit to that idea as a GSoC project |
| 21:19:18 | n1s | saratoga: yeah but they use different filters than the EQ |
| 21:19:18 | TheSeven | that url is the emcore installer, yes |
| 21:20:16 | n1s | or at least i think so |
| 21:21:28 | m1k3y | Zagor: also, how open are you guys to a rehaul of the app from scratch |
| 21:21:46 | m1k3y | Zagor: because in its current state, it is mostly unusable |
| 21:21:58 | m1k3y | Zagor: a native app makes more sense |
| 21:21:58 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:22:28 | m1k3y | Zagor: but then there is the question of "does anybody want yet another media management app for android" |
| 21:22:29 | TheSeven | what is a "native app" in your terms? |
| 21:22:37 | gevaerts | m1k3y: you'll need to provide a lot more detailed reasons than "in its current state, it is mostly unusable" :) |
| 21:22:39 | TheSeven | you mean using native GUI widgets? |
| 21:22:41 | n1s | m1k3y: what app do you mean? rockbox itself? and what is from scratch? |
| 21:23:04 | m1k3y | n1s: not rockbox, the current Android port http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AndroidPort |
| 21:23:24 | gevaerts | That *is* rockbox |
| 21:23:38 | m1k3y | i know |
| 21:23:52 | m1k3y | see if the interface to it were a clickwheel like on an ipod |
| 21:23:57 | m1k3y | it would probably work fine |
| 21:24:10 | m1k3y | but android has different HIG |
| 21:24:20 | TheSeven | [21:22] <TheSeven> you mean using native GUI widgets? |
| 21:24:27 | m1k3y | and that must be respected and harnassed to get a uniform experience |
| 21:24:31 | n1s | m1k3y: if you mean to make a whole new ui using the native style on the platform (here Android) the idea has come up before |
| 21:24:34 | gevaerts | Right. So you mean the controls. That's not "from scratch" :) |
| 21:24:36 | m1k3y | TheSeven: probably yes |
| 21:24:44 | simon___ | TheSeven: Now i also have ATA error: -11... |
| 21:25:32 | | Quit stripwax (Client Quit) |
| 21:25:34 | TheSeven | hm, how old is that rockbox build? |
| 21:25:38 | m1k3y | TheSeven: also, i see that the current plugin architecture does not allow for background services |
| 21:25:39 | TheSeven | that error code sounds very strange to me |
| 21:25:47 | TheSeven | this seems to still use the old ATA driver |
| 21:26:03 | n1s | m1k3y: properly separating the current ui code form the rest and plugging in a new ui is going to be a lot of work |
| 21:26:04 | TheSeven | m1k3y: that's not entirely true |
| 21:26:17 | simon___ | The one I got with the iLoader installer today |
| 21:26:21 | gevaerts | m1k3y: the current plugin architecture is not meant for services |
| 21:26:26 | m1k3y | n1s: i don't shy away from a lot of work |
| 21:26:36 | simon___ | I could try updating it :) |
| 21:26:41 | m1k3y | n1s: i just wanted to get feedback if you guys are even open to it |
| 21:26:55 | TheSeven | simon___: emcore doesn't install a full rockbox build any more |
| 21:27:04 | TheSeven | so it's probably some old crap that was lying around on the disk before |
| 21:27:04 | m1k3y | gevaerts: Zagor was talking about stuff like lyric fetching, last.fm scrobbling yesterday |
| 21:27:05 | preglow | saratoga: tone controls are two first order shelving filters cascaded to a eq_filter compatible biquad |
| 21:27:12 | m1k3y | gevaerts: how do you plan to go about that |
| 21:27:24 | preglow | all eq filters are second order, so tone controls sound different |
| 21:27:24 | simon___ | Okay, I'll copy the newest rockbox build over |
| 21:27:26 | saratoga | preglow: do they set the precut automatically? |
| 21:27:54 | TheSeven | saratoga: the bass/treble thingys do, but I don't know about the EQ |
| 21:27:57 | preglow | hardware prescale? |
| 21:28:01 | saratoga | or rather are they designed to have negative gain |
| 21:28:15 | gevaerts | m1k3y: depends. I think I'd implement those on the java side, not as rockbox plugins, but I haven't really thought about it |
| 21:28:35 | preglow | i really don't remember, but i think i do remember using scalers |
| 21:28:44 | preglow | but they're not available everywhere |
| 21:29:06 | TheSeven | saratoga: I know that setting the bass/treble control sets precut as well, if the driver supports that |
| 21:29:25 | m1k3y | gevaerts: i agree |
| 21:29:49 | | Quit merbanan (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 21:29:56 | m1k3y | gevaerts: something that i am still not sure about is whether there is enthusiasm in the community about the android port |
| 21:30:43 | gevaerts | That's too vague a question to even begin answering I'd say |
| 21:30:48 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:30:51 | m1k3y | gevaerts: will an effort to make it better, more feature laden and usable be welcomed or will it be frowned upon (due to focus being on Apple devices) |
| 21:30:59 | gevaerts | Huh? |
| 21:31:05 | gevaerts | What focus on Apple devices? |
| 21:31:11 | n1s | m1k3y: we don't have a focus :) |
| 21:31:21 | | Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !) |
| 21:31:44 | simon___ | TheSeven: Now I have the latest rockbox build. It boots, and freezes when I plug the cable in. As expected... :) |
| 21:32:14 | gevaerts | The only reason Apple devices are listed first on the front page is because Apple sneakily picked a name near the start of the alphabet |
| 21:32:17 | n1s | simon___: updating rockbox fixed ata error -11 ? |
| 21:32:28 | simon___ | Yep. |
| 21:32:57 | simon___ | I booted with the rockbox.ubi file, copied the .rockbox directory over and it worked. |
| 21:33:22 | m1k3y | ok, i'll play around with the current build some more, and then see if i can get you guys to believe in this as a soc project |
| 21:33:49 | m1k3y | kugel: i don't seem to be able to find a link to the source repo |
| 21:34:03 | m1k3y | kugel: for the android port |
| 21:34:22 | n1s | m1k3y: there seems to be a split between people liking the current UI on RaaA ports and people who would like a native ui for each platform |
| 21:34:41 | n1s | m1k3y: the android port is in our master svn |
| 21:35:20 | m1k3y | n1s: how about a blend of the two? |
| 21:35:52 | n1s | also since the current ui has evolved fro years and sometimes painfully i don't know how a completely new UI will be recieved but *I* think it would be very interesting to see |
| 21:36:14 | saratoga | having a second UI might be neat for a lot of reasons |
| 21:36:26 | m1k3y | n1s: using native widgets for ease of implementation and system wide consistency, while utilizing android's theming capabilities to give a look and feel of native rockbox |
| 21:36:28 | saratoga | debugging, separating UI code from playback code, etc |
| 21:36:48 | n1s | saratoga: oh yes |
| 21:36:54 | n1s | m1k3y: why not |
| 21:37:50 | saratoga | m1k3y: to be clear, theres only 1 rockbox source code, and if you configure an application build, different parts are built then if you configure a Sandisk Sansa build for instance |
| 21:37:56 | gevaerts | m1k3y: do you have thoughts on using android widgets versus keeping the rockbox theme configurability? |
| 21:38:31 | m1k3y | gevaerts: i dont know how rockbox theming is currently done |
| 21:38:58 | saratoga | i assume we could have new tags for Android devices that map to android specific UI elements, although that might make supporting older tags rather complicated since they'd have to be reimplemented in java I suspect |
| 21:39:34 | saratoga | we have a script language called WPS that lets you setup a While Playing Screen with various UI elements in whatever order you like |
| 21:41:00 | m1k3y | saratoga: interesting |
| 21:41:38 | AlexP | The wps is how Rockbox themeing is done, so if you didn't know about that how could you know about Rockbox themeing? |
| 21:41:46 | AlexP | sorry. misread :) |
| 21:41:59 | AlexP | I wouldn't call the current android UI unusable at all |
| 21:42:11 | AlexP | It could do with a bit of love sure, but it is perfectly useable |
| 21:42:55 | saratoga | its not clear to me that an Android GUI needs to have theming and such immediately, it would be neat to have a functional GUI (even an unthemeable one) as simply a proof of concept |
| 21:43:04 | m1k3y | ok wait, i have to ask: what are the expectations from the Android port? |
| 21:43:04 | saratoga | and of course once you have something I'm sure other people will expand on it |
| 21:43:21 | m1k3y | i mean |
| 21:43:22 | n1s | i don't know if it's good to get hung up on preserving the current theming facilities in a new gui, i think it could get in the way and i don't think it's the most important thing in the ui |
| 21:43:30 | AlexP | I don't see all that much difference between the current android rb and things like e.g. rockplayer |
| 21:43:43 | AlexP | (in terms of gui) |
| 21:43:55 | m1k3y | is it meant for someone who wants to completely covert there phone to a dedicated music device? |
| 21:44:02 | AlexP | no |
| 21:44:03 | m1k3y | or is it just another music player? |
| 21:44:21 | m1k3y | s/there/their |
| 21:44:32 | AlexP | It would be silly to think of Rockbox on e.g. android as a firmware replacement, it isn't |
| 21:44:35 | AlexP | It is an app |
| 21:45:00 | AlexP | And it clearly isn't "just another" music player :) |
| 21:45:05 | TheSeven | i think it aims to be a very feature-rich music player app for people who know what they're doing :) |
| 21:45:08 | | Join merbanan [0] (~banan@c-62-220-165-78.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 21:45:36 | m1k3y | AlexP: ok in that case, I'd say that in its current state, its pretty unusable compared to popular players such as Cubed or PowerAMP |
| 21:45:38 | AlexP | We want to bring the huge number of features, the highly efficient optimised massive codec support, etc. etc. to other platforms |
| 21:45:47 | AlexP | m1k3y: Unusable how? |
| 21:45:53 | AlexP | That on its own doesn't mean anything |
| 21:45:59 | AlexP | I use it just fiine for instance |
| 21:46:41 | m1k3y | hmm unusable is probably the wrong word |
| 21:46:56 | m1k3y | its difficult |
| 21:47:06 | AlexP | The menu spacing patch helps loads incidentally |
| 21:47:17 | AlexP | kugel: Do you plan to commit that? |
| 21:48:13 | AlexP | The WPS needs a bit of a go over, but that is doable currently |
| 21:48:16 | m1k3y | for example, the main screen looks like a directory listing |
| 21:48:28 | simon___ | TheSeven: Is there anything I could do to find out what the problem on the Classic is? |
| 21:48:30 | AlexP | Yes, it is a list of options |
| 21:48:34 | m1k3y | with tons of unutilized screen estate (even on my QVGA phone) |
| 21:48:38 | AlexP | What would you have? |
| 21:48:41 | | Quit Keripo1 (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 21:49:03 | m1k3y | also, getting to playing a track i want requires me to scroll through 3 levels |
| 21:49:04 | AlexP | Note I'm not adverse to changes, but just saying useusable means nothing |
| 21:49:30 | AlexP | You select either the file browser or the database, then you nafigate to the track |
| 21:49:30 | TheSeven | simon___: did you try if menu+select breaks it as well? |
| 21:49:36 | m1k3y | all of these little things add up to making something usable or unusable |
| 21:49:40 | simon___ | Yep, it does. |
| 21:49:46 | AlexP | You can set where the filebrowser starts, how would you then speed up getting there? |
| 21:50:03 | AlexP | Unuseable is a silly work, it patently isn't |
| 21:50:04 | | Quit stripwax__ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 21:50:06 | AlexP | *word |
| 21:50:21 | gevaerts | Note that the theme probably doesn't make use of all possibly useful options yet |
| 21:50:32 | | Quit stripwax (Quit: http://miranda-im.org) |
| 21:50:39 | AlexP | yes, there are quite a few new themeing options - the WPS could be much better |
| 21:51:10 | gevaerts | You can easily have lots of playback status on the menu screens, and (provided JdGordon| does some work IIRC) actually put playback control there |
| 21:51:32 | AlexP | As I say, changes/a new system is not in of itself bad - I just haven't heard any real problems yetr, or how they could be fixed |
| 21:51:35 | gevaerts | It's just that the android port isn't mature enough yet to have attracted the hordes of creative themers |
| 21:51:47 | m1k3y | AlexP: hmm, i can't really comment until i see the underlying code |
| 21:51:50 | AlexP | yes, you can put any of the wps controls on any of the menu screens |
| 21:52:13 | m1k3y | AlexP: i need to see how this works to suggest a way to do it better |
| 21:52:31 | AlexP | m1k3y: I think the first thing to do is to look at the current themeing engine - it is quite powerful and the current android default theme doesn't use much of it |
| 21:54:08 | simon___ | TheSeven: I guess the emcore tools will be useless since it doesn't show up in lsusb? |
| 21:54:33 | TheSeven | yeah, unless you find a way to actively break usb during the first boot |
| 21:54:51 | m1k3y | checking out the trunk right now |
| 21:54:52 | TheSeven | otherwise it's all poking in the dark |
| 21:55:08 | m1k3y | whoa, those are a lot of fonts :D |
| 21:55:16 | TheSeven | the weird thing is that it only seems to happen on very few devices, and i can't recognize a pattern |
| 21:55:29 | TheSeven | simon___, n1s: which exact models do you have? |
| 21:55:35 | AlexP | m1k3y: I don't get the "getting to playing a track i want requires me to scroll through 3 levels". If you are not there you press the menu button for the main menu, then you select either filebrowser or database as you want. You can set the filebrowser to start where you want. You can customise the database display. After that, the number of levels depends on how you organise your music, and is up to you. |
| 21:55:47 | simon___ | Classic 3g, 160GB, Silver. |
| 21:55:55 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 21:56:20 | TheSeven | except for the color that's the same as my working one |
| 21:56:47 | n1s | mine's a 120GB silver but i don't know the gen |
| 21:56:56 | TheSeven | 120GB => 2G |
| 21:57:03 | n1s | ok |
| 21:57:34 | AlexP | m1k3y: You can also have shortcuts from the wps that will put you back exactly where you have just come from in the filebrowser or database |
| 21:58:12 | AlexP | This smells to me a bit like the default theme needs improving (which I think we pretty much agree on) :) |
| 21:58:26 | m1k3y | AlexP: ok, i think the gap here is that i've never looked at a properly working rockbox installation |
| 21:58:48 | m1k3y | AlexP: this is my first experience with rockbox and so i dont know how stuff works and where all these setting are located |
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| 21:59:27 | AlexP | m1k3y: The default theme needs work for sure, but I think before getting to a complete ui redesign, you should check if it can currently be done, and if not can we add the couple of missing bits :) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:54 | AlexP | m1k3y: The manual has a section on themeing, and there is a CustomWps wiki page too (might be CustomWPS) |
| 22:01:12 | AlexP | Probably worth a look |
| 22:01:13 | AlexP | :) |
| 22:01:25 | AlexP | (in addition to the source of course) |
| 22:01:28 | m1k3y | will do |
| 22:01:38 | gevaerts | Oh, and the theme site can provide some insight too. There are some quite creative themes there |
| 22:02:07 | m1k3y | another thing |
| 22:02:14 | m1k3y | we've been talking about UI mostly |
| 22:02:27 | m1k3y | how about stuff like database |
| 22:02:31 | AlexP | gevaerts: yes, that too |
| 22:02:35 | AlexP | themes.rockbox.org |
| 22:02:40 | m1k3y | android has something called MediaStore |
| 22:03:01 | m1k3y | which is a pre-existing database of all media content on the device |
| 22:03:15 | AlexP | m1k3y: It doesn't support anywhere near all the formats Rockbox does |
| 22:03:42 | m1k3y | right |
| 22:03:58 | AlexP | So if you used that you would miss a load of formats out |
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| 22:04:37 | AlexP | I'm not sure how using it would go - if you want a DB view you would still need Rockbox to do something for the other formats, or just ignore them |
| 22:04:58 | AlexP | Or have two databases which would be rather confusing IMO |
| 22:05:36 | m1k3y | AlexP: what does the current database build procedure do? |
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| 22:05:42 | AlexP | But I haven't really thought about it, maybe there is a way to integrate it (I mean here ui wise, rather than code wise) |
| 22:05:44 | m1k3y | AlexP: recursively scan the sdcard? |
| 22:05:55 | m1k3y | AlexP: and index the matching files? |
| 22:06:06 | AlexP | m1k3y: I'm not the one to ask about that :) |
| 22:06:22 | AlexP | I don't use the thing, and have no idea about implementation :) |
| 22:06:36 | AlexP | but yes, I think so |
| 22:06:53 | AlexP | We also have database.ignore and database.unignore files |
| 22:06:55 | m1k3y | AlexP: did you guys get a gsoc intern for the android implementation last year? |
| 22:07:02 | AlexP | yes, kugel |
| 22:07:08 | m1k3y | oh |
| 22:07:23 | m1k3y | nice :) |
| 22:07:35 | m1k3y | havent had a chance to talk to him yet |
| 22:07:42 | AlexP | yeah, the initial port was his GSoC :) |
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| 22:11:50 | AlexP | Anyway, I think we'd all be interested by ideas, but it'd be a good plan to get to know the current theming possibilities first :) Then we can discuss from a common knowledge of the current capabilities and shortcomings :) |
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| 22:18:36 | m1k3y | AlexP: i think the first step would be to look at rockbox the 'firmware' and the features it offers and then translate all of them to Android in a way that is natural to the smartphone interface |
| 22:19:18 | JdGordon| | gevaerts: I dont have a monopoly on skin related coding :) |
| 22:19:19 | m1k3y | AlexP: is there such a thing? (a release of rockbox which is feature complete and rock solid stable) |
| 22:19:33 | gevaerts | JdGordon|: you don't? Good to know! :) |
| 22:20:49 | JdGordon| | m1k3y: with >200 open bugs... yeah not likely |
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| 22:21:35 | gevaerts | All theming features are supported on Android |
| 22:21:46 | JdGordon| | nope |
| 22:21:51 | m1k3y | JdGordon|: my purpose of asking is to set a golden release, and therefore the initial challenge would to be make that release work completely on android |
| 22:21:53 | gevaerts | Which aren't? |
| 22:22:02 | JdGordon| | hotkey support |
| 22:22:15 | gevaerts | Ah, right. Ok, I can live with that limitation :) |
| 22:22:35 | JdGordon| | sure, if you are happy with a 3rd rate product... |
| 22:22:47 | gevaerts | m1k3y: that statement doesn't make much sense to me... |
| 22:23:29 | m1k3y | gevaerts: for example plugins |
| 22:23:54 | JdGordon| | plugins barely make sense on android |
| 22:23:59 | m1k3y | gevaerts: do all these work on android http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/PluginIndex |
| 22:24:03 | gevaerts | No |
| 22:24:09 | m1k3y | exactly |
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| 22:24:23 | gevaerts | Why do you want a rockbox chess plugin on android? |
| 22:24:29 | m1k3y | now we are getting to stuff that makes sense and doesnt make sense on android |
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| 22:24:50 | m1k3y | so it would make sense to implement music playback in a way specific to android |
| 22:24:53 | AlexP | m1k3y: Plugins don't make sense on adroid in the most part |
| 22:24:59 | AlexP | er, why? |
| 22:25:02 | AlexP | plugins are just that |
| 22:25:07 | AlexP | They don't affect the core |
| 22:25:14 | gevaerts | Why is music playback any different on Android than elsewhere? |
| 22:25:31 | m1k3y | not the actual playback |
| 22:25:41 | m1k3y | the way the user experiences the playback |
| 22:25:48 | m1k3y | like the 'now playing' screen |
| 22:25:52 | AlexP | that doesn't change with out without plugins |
| 22:25:57 | m1k3y | support for lyrics, album art |
| 22:26:02 | AlexP | You just don't have the plugin menu item without them |
| 22:26:10 | AlexP | album art is in core, not a plugin |
| 22:26:30 | m1k3y | AlexP: i was just stating plugins as an example |
| 22:26:47 | AlexP | Clearly a bad one, as they don't apply so I don't understand the point :) |
| 22:29:09 | m1k3y | AlexP: ok how about power management |
| 22:29:16 | AlexP | what about it? |
| 22:29:17 | m1k3y | AlexP: its useless within the app |
| 22:29:31 | AlexP | sure, so it doesn't get built as it does for normal targets |
| 22:29:33 | m1k3y | since this is not a replacement firmware, but an app |
| 22:29:59 | m1k3y | AlexP: could you explain what that means |
| 22:30:40 | AlexP | Rockbox is built for all targets from the same tree, but not everything applies to ererything |
| 22:30:46 | AlexP | The power of ifdefs :) |
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| 22:32:22 | m1k3y | AlexP: yes, so why do I see it in the app |
| 22:32:32 | gevaerts | You mean the battery level? |
| 22:32:35 | m1k3y | yes |
| 22:32:47 | AlexP | we read the battery level from android |
| 22:32:55 | AlexP | But we don't use it to do power management |
| 22:33:03 | gevaerts | Themes have access to the battery level if they want to show it. Is that a problem? |
| 22:33:08 | AlexP | not like on a dap where we are a firmware |
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| 22:33:25 | AlexP | themes don't have to show battery level, but it is probably useful if they do |
| 22:33:59 | m1k3y | gevaerts: not a problem, its just redundant where rockbox is running as an app |
| 22:34:17 | gevaerts | If you don't want it, you pick a theme that doesn't show it! |
| 22:34:19 | AlexP | That is subjective, but themes can show it or not as they wisj |
| 22:34:21 | AlexP | *wish |
| 22:34:57 | m1k3y | oh so this is done to maintain cross-device compatibility for themes |
| 22:35:04 | gevaerts | No |
| 22:35:12 | AlexP | If I am using RB, I quite like to be able to keep an eye on battery without coming out of it, but of course that is just personal preference |
| 22:35:28 | gevaerts | *You* may not want the battery level. Why do you assume that *nobody* wants it? |
| 22:35:50 | gevaerts | Are you going to propose to remove the RTC tags as well? |
| 22:36:16 | gevaerts | I mean, knowing what time it is isn't an essential audio player feature, is it? |
| 22:36:22 | m1k3y | yeah |
| 22:36:25 | AlexP | Thing here is though, this is just arguing about what the default WPS should show, it is nothing to do with rewriting anything |
| 22:36:33 | TheSeven | gevaerts: well, if he has that in the OS statusbar as well... |
| 22:36:42 | AlexP | TheSeven: Sure, so the theme can not show it |
| 22:36:52 | gevaerts | TheSeven: he isn't *forced* to use a theme that shows it |
| 22:37:08 | gevaerts | And how about album art? Surely music is music? Let's drop album art support, it's clearly useless |
| 22:37:12 | AlexP | This is nothing to do with redesigning Rockbox specifically for Android to remove the ability to show the battery if people want it |
| 22:37:16 | m1k3y | my point is that porting every feature that makes sense on a dedicated firmware to android doesnt make sense |
| 22:37:20 | TheSeven | of course, but I don't see much sense in duplicating that info on the screen either, if he wants the system statusbar to be shown |
| 22:37:33 | AlexP | m1k3y: It is already there virtue of the skinning engine |
| 22:37:50 | AlexP | Why bother to remove tags that you personally think are pointless? |
| 22:38:18 | gevaerts | I *never* listen to music in 99% of the genres in the id3 genre list. Should I make a custom build with those stripped out? |
| 22:38:42 | AlexP | TheSeven: Yes, but again this is an argument about the default WPS, which isn't/wasn't the point of this conversation |
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| 22:40:08 | m1k3y | AlexP: hmm this is something that is subjective |
| 22:40:23 | AlexP | Of course, but I really don't get your point |
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| 22:40:41 | m1k3y | AlexP: what you are saying sounds quite pointless to me |
| 22:40:57 | gevaerts | m1k3y: the fact that some people want to see battery level or clock is *not* subjective. |
| 22:41:04 | gevaerts | It's a *fact* |
| 22:41:12 | m1k3y | AlexP: like why would you want to have video playback codecs on a device that doesnt support it at all |
| 22:41:21 | AlexP | m1k3y: Anyone can make a theme. They can put what information on it they want. Why do you want to remove some of the things they can use? |
| 22:41:31 | AlexP | m1k3y: What video player codecs? |
| 22:41:38 | gevaerts | m1k3y: how is that even related to what we're discussing? |
| 22:41:49 | m1k3y | you would just add that and hide the options for video playback in the skin? |
| 22:41:52 | TheSeven | m1k3y: but it *does* support reading the battery level! |
| 22:41:52 | AlexP | Rockbox has mpegplayer as a plugin for mpeg1/2. It is built for the targets that can use it |
| 22:42:10 | AlexP | m1k3y: I don't understand that? |
| 22:42:19 | gevaerts | AlexP: he's just talking nonsense now |
| 22:42:27 | gevaerts | No point in trying to understand |
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| 22:42:45 | AlexP | m1k3y: mpegplayer is not part of the core, it can't appear on the wps. It is a plugin that is built when it makes sense |
| 22:42:57 | m1k3y | somehow i am unable to convey my point |
| 22:43:15 | m1k3y | i am suggesting all these points as analogies |
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| 22:43:23 | AlexP | but none of them work |
| 22:43:25 | m1k3y | and you guys are taking each point specifically |
| 22:43:47 | AlexP | So far, all you have suggested is removing things that already work and that some people like, that are just options they can use |
| 22:43:56 | TheSeven | m1k3y: I think we all understand that there are features that just don't make any sense for an app build |
| 22:44:11 | AlexP | sure, most of the plugins for a start |
| 22:44:43 | TheSeven | m1k3y: but those features haven't been implemented or enabled for that build in the first place |
| 22:45:49 | m1k3y | ok, i should really get to know how rockbox works before saying anything more |
| 22:45:57 | AlexP | It might help :) |
| 22:46:05 | m1k3y | ill be back tomorrow with a better view of how things work |
| 22:46:16 | m1k3y | right now i think im just annoying you guys |
| 22:46:25 | m1k3y | gnight |
| 22:46:26 | AlexP | not annoying, I just don't understand |
| 22:46:31 | AlexP | night |
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| 23:08:18 | pixelma | if Rockbox wouldn't hide or even err... utilise the Android notification bar, then the battery level tags etc. may become "useless" although people may still want them. But - it doesn't so far although that's been discussed |
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| 23:09:33 | AlexP | pixelma: Indeed so, but that is still just a what is on the default wps question, not a lets remove the tags or rewrite the ui question |
| 23:09:53 | AlexP | A different ui approach might be interesting, but not for that reason :) |
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| 23:32:40 | JdGordon| | I thought kugel was working on bringing back the native statusbar? |
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| 23:39:20 | * | [Saint] assumes "in RaaA" follows that sentence. |
| 23:40:48 | [Saint] | I have thought that would be cool myself actually, but...can we treat it like an .sbs? and overlay it? Or do we have to offset the theme by X and our theme sizes gget crazy (like 240x308 as opposed to 240x320) |
| 23:49:29 | kugel | [Saint]: the last time I looked at it it could act as an sbs, but there was a nasty annoyance that the rest of the UI went down for a fraction of a second |
| 23:50:45 | [Saint] | kugel: Right...I was just voicinf ideas out loud I guess...just thinking how much it would *suck* if the statusbar offset the screen by X and made theme sizes even more difficult. |
| 23:51:22 | [Saint] | *voicing |
| 23:51:44 | kugel | the maemo port has this problem IIRC but it can be handled transparently in the lcd subsystem |
| 23:52:24 | kugel | i.e. hiding the statusbar dictated offset to apps/ |
| 23:52:31 | kugel | and themes |
| 23:54:01 | kugel | I don't know if I can get that glitch away |
| 23:54:41 | kugel | but my "dream" of the host statusbar is that it acts as an sbs, including %we/%wd support |
| 23:55:10 | [Saint] | I have seen a few android apps that shift around by some obvious offset when changing portrait/landscape mode...or on first load. |
| 23:55:13 | kugel | it's certainly doable, but the glitch kinda sucks |
| 23:55:19 | [Saint] | If we could avoid that, it'd be nice. |
| 23:55:43 | [Saint] | "[11:55] <kugel> but my "dream" of the host statusbar is that it acts as an sbs, including %we/%wd support" <−−- yes, yes...excellent. |
| 23:55:50 | [Saint] | I was thinking the same. nice. |
| 23:57:27 | [Saint] | I made a reasonably convincing 2.1 statusbar .sbs mockup a while back to see how it would look. |
| 23:57:35 | kugel | but I was pretty lost in the current skin code so I didn't know where to put the enable/disable calls to make it work properly |
| 23:57:37 | [Saint] | faking it really isn't an option. |
| 23:57:46 | kugel | showing and hiding the statusbar is rather simple |
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