#rockbox 2011-03-28

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#rockbox log for 2011-03-28

00:00:21	bertrik	saratoga, for the ipods a student could work on accessory support for the nano2g and classic 6g. IAP is currently hooked directly into the PP serial interrupt, so it's not working yet on the nano2g/classic6g which are based on the s5l870x
00:00:52	saratoga	bertrik: yeah,a lthough thats probably not a full summer worth of work
00:01:58		Join Hindu [0] (~Hindu@218.248.64.129)
00:01:58	bertrik	I've been too lazy so far to put up a proper description of that task on the gsoc ideas page
00:01:58	saratoga	i was thinking of adding support for a new version of the accessory protocol, adding a driver for the USB accessory protocol, etc
00:01:58	saratoga	i'll put one up now and you can change it if you like
00:02:42	bertrik	IAP could use a little refactoring to split it up into 1) a proper serial driver (create/unify a serial API), 2) the autobaud code 3) the IAP protocol code
00:03:40	bertrik	saratoga, do you think it would be possible to use accessories intended for one device on another?
00:03:59	saratoga	with hardware adapters, probably
00:04:21	saratoga	although it might be possible to use the Apple USB protocol on anything with a software USB stack if they haven't encrypted it
00:04:25	bertrik	I vaguely remember talk about a remote control using a 4 pin audio plug, that could possibly be used on other targets
00:04:31	saratoga	(this is pure speculation)
00:06:14	bertrik	Do you have more information on the apple USB protocol? is the player the USB host and the peripheral the USB slave?
00:07:07	gevaerts	I think the player is the device, but I'm not sure
00:07:17	gevaerts	This is a vague memory from when JdGordon ran some tests
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00:08:37	JdGordon\|	hrm?
00:08:37		Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
00:10:58	saratoga	bertrik: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SummerOfCode2011#Apple_47Sandisk_47etc_Various_Docks_44_Remotes_44_Accessories
00:11:08	saratoga	feel free to improve
00:12:44	bertrik	looks good
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00:23:39		Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:27:40	saratoga	[libav-devel] [PATCH][RFC] Fixed-point FFT and MDCT
00:27:44	saratoga	oh hell
00:29:06	stripwax	interesting
00:29:41	stripwax	is it better than ours?
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00:29:55	saratoga	i think its basically ours without everything you merged from libtremor
00:30:29	saratoga	so it might be better on ARM11 or Cortex where we don't care about memory savings so much as memory locality
00:31:47	stripwax	ah .. nifty. you mean it doesn't have the merged twiddle tables for mdct + ifft, it uses separate tables for each one for each fft size?
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00:32:06	saratoga	i think so
00:32:40	stripwax	it's worth evaluating ...
00:33:32	stripwax	although, i seem to remember offering to do this on rockbox code; and i still just don't have any time :-(
00:33:41	saratoga	its probably better to just take what we have and make the merged tables a compile time option based on CPU
00:33:49	stripwax	where "this" means "undoing the bits I did to merge the twiddle tables"
00:33:54	saratoga	make someone do it for GSOC!
00:33:59	stripwax	saratoga - yeah!
00:34:13	stripwax	as a test (not project) −− right?
00:34:27	saratoga	or part of a much larger project
00:34:35	saratoga	we've got a big list of optimization goals, the mdct is one of them
00:34:37	stripwax	hm true
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00:40:11	dfkt	saratoga, i found some more telechips material. lots of documents and a linux dev kit, if you're interested
00:40:27	saratoga	is it one of those leaked SDKs?
00:40:42	dfkt	i think it is of questionable legality, yes
00:41:14	saratoga	i think i've seen all that
00:41:15	dfkt	the dev kit can be found as LINUX_BSP_100205-R0170B2750.tar.bz2
00:41:38	saratoga	mostly just curious if they were releasing real android drivers for things like the flash memory
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02:00:42	[Saint]	JdGordon\|: I've been thinking about hiding the "control panel" in the .sbs with a tab (as suggested), but iiuc this will run into the same problem my old personal theme had with UI viewports in that the lists aren't redrawn if the UI viewport changes.
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02:01:23	[Saint]	(the only reason I could think to hide the control panel would be to fullscreen the lists...unless I'm missing something)
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02:18:15	JdGordon\|	[Saint]: yes, but i can kick it if needed
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03:47:35	Darkenvy	I need help with my ipod
03:47:59	Darkenvy	I went to go add music, now I ereased my HDD. its a bad day ;(
03:47:59	Darkenvy	on top of that I cant format it and it locks up linux/windows while plugged in
03:55:59	robin0800	Darkenvy, try restoring it with itunes
03:57:05	Darkenvy	I did
03:57:14	Darkenvy	I tried restoring it with itunes from mac and windows
03:57:55	Darkenvy	only on a mac was I able to format it using the disk utility. ONLY then am I able to restore with windows only. not even mac
03:58:00	robin0800	Darkenvy, did that work?
03:58:03	Darkenvy	no
03:58:19	Darkenvy	because after the restore I am abck to all 3 computers freezing when plugged in
03:58:48	robin0800	Darkenvy, can you get it into disk mode?
03:58:50	Darkenvy	the MOMENT I unplug it all 3 OS'es speed up really fast to compensate for the '3-8 minute lag'
03:58:53	Darkenvy	yes
03:59:01	Darkenvy	I have tried to perform all this in disk mode too
04:00
04:00:07	Darkenvy	now before I restored the HDD, it did the same thing. but the ipod worked! music, original Ipod firmware, rockbox, file browser in rockbox. all of everything. HDD spins up loads fast
04:01:11	Darkenvy	but then I tried to load an album. all forums online informed others of the same problem to "restore ipod" and that will fix it. so I tried that now im SOL
04:01:12	robin0800	Darkenvy, an itunes restore should wipe all data
04:01:41	Darkenvy	yes and it did. but after the itunes restore I can no longer see it as a disk and it locks all the systems up
04:02:08	Darkenvy	(but for mac I can still get into disk manager and reformat it. this is the only way to 'try again')
04:02:37	robin0800	Darkenvy, do you mean you cant get into disk mode now?
04:02:50	Darkenvy	no
04:02:55	Darkenvy	that is not what im saying
04:03:08	Darkenvy	disk manager = mac osx disk utility
04:04:12	robin0800	Darkenvy, it must be itunes for windows i think fat32
04:04:17	Darkenvy	I cant get any OS to reconize the Ipod as a HDD nor be seen in itunes.
04:04:50	Darkenvy	so then should I try formatting it to fat32 first then restore within itunes on a windows?
04:04:51	robin0800	Darkenvy, not even in disk mode?
04:05:00	Darkenvy	nope not even in disk mode
04:05:41	robin0800	Darkenvy, just itunes on windows should be enough
04:06:17	Darkenvy	I have to format it in a Mac OSX disk tool in order for windows to read it first
04:06:37	Darkenvy	otherwise in ipod's Disk mode + windows = freeze
04:07:14	Darkenvy	so once its formatted using the Mac OSX tool it is purely a HDD. one that works and is error free.
04:07:31	Darkenvy	the moment I turn it into an ipod it stops functioning
04:07:42	Darkenvy	...with the computers
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04:09:36	robin0800	Darkenvy, yes that is expected the apple files and hidden partition are probably missing thats why it needs an itunes restore
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04:13:00	Darkenvy	I have tried itunes restore from both windows and mac. I already said that this IS THE FUNCTION that makes my computers freeze when the ipod is plugged in
04:14:48	Llorean	Darkenvy: Then complain to Apple that their software is freezing your computer?
04:14:52	robin0800	Darkenvy, try unplugging the ipod and then quickly plug it back in at the freeze
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04:18:27	Darkenvy	okay that did help
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04:18:54	Darkenvy	I was able to get to windows format tool which limited me to formatting the ipod to 200mb of FAT32. perhaps going into the restore with fat32 may help
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04:22:41	Darkenvy	bad intertnet
04:22:43	Darkenvy	brb
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05:28:08	[Saint]	Darkenvy: (logs) If you see this....it actually sounds like your disk is dead dude....
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05:31:53	[Saint]	JdGordon\|: So, what was the "mute-bug" issue?
05:32:19	[Saint]	Glad you got it sorted, though I haven't tried a fixed build yet, it was driving me nuts.
05:32:48	[Saint]	I can't believe that no one else complained about it actually. No one actually uses bleeding edge RaaA?
05:34:12	JdGordon\|	[Saint]: technical answer.... mixing enum cases in a switch()
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05:35:30	[Saint]	Is that dev-code for "I brokeded it"?
05:35:36	[Saint]	;)
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05:39:33	[Saint]	So...regarding skin vars...my understanding is a little fragile. It needs to be set up (in my/our case) so that the popup viewport(s) increment "foo"+1, and the album info viewports check if "foo" is >0 and goes true then?
05:40:55	[Saint]	All I really know about them is "it should let me do what I want in this case", though the how is a little vague still.
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05:49:07	JdGordon\|	[Saint]: that sounds about right
05:49:21	JdGordon\|	or you can just set the var to some value you know means "show the poppup"
05:49:32	JdGordon\|	its pretty flexible
05:51:07	[Saint]	For the meantime, I've gone ahead and made sure that every function of the .wps can be reached without the popups...but it'd be very nice to get them working and remove some of the duplicated touch areas.
05:51:27	[Saint]	I'll have a look at it tonight when I can.
05:51:52	JdGordon\|	cough put it on git and i'll do the vars
06:00
06:04:42	[Saint]	gah...your obsession with git!
06:05:05	[Saint]	here's a pastebin of it, if you're lucky...I'll set up mysysGit tonight.
06:05:06	[Saint]	http://pastebin.com/9sW8NcZE
06:05:27	[Saint]	*mysysGit
06:05:35	[Saint]	twice... -y
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06:08:54	[Saint]	My plan is, once these two are done 480x800 and 240x320, I'll put them on the tracker for myself (and others, if anyone is keen) to continue the porting process from there.
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06:10:03	[Saint]	pretty much with code examples from both a small and large screened target, the only things that need to change between ports is positioning of stuff, and creating a few new images here and there.
06:11:41	[Saint]	while I'd like to do all the images (so it doesn't end up like current cabbieV2 with 10 different shades/variations of the same theme slightly different), it's reasonably unrealistic in a reasonable timeframe and I wouldn't say no to an enthusiastic volunteer.
06:13:05	JdGordon\|	i dont see why touch and non-touch skins need to be kept in sync
06:17:20	[Saint]	because there's no way to tell them apart.
06:17:59	[Saint]	I'd need to add a bunch of shit to the 230x320 theme to make it work right on a non touch target.
06:18:12	[Saint]	(and now I realised what you actually meant)
06:18:38	[Saint]	And because it'll be weird changing the layout so much on the touch themes without doing the same on the non-touch ones.
06:19:58	[Saint]	*240x320
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06:20:50	[Saint]	I suppose that'd just be a matter of making the popup tabs conditional to %Tp though...there's less touch specific stuff there than I thought.
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06:21:54	[Saint]	I guess the thing is that my 24px iconset hasn't gone in because it's different to the "standard" cabbie icons, and from what I was told the only way to get it in there is to adapt the other icons to match.
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06:22:39	[Saint]	I see that as a relatively small thing, so a different .wps/.sbs for touch targets without touching the non-touch targets would be equally poorly recieved I'd say.
06:26:03	JdGordon\|	i tinhk that is idiotic
06:26:20	JdGordon\|	(if that is the reason they havnt gone in)
06:27:07	JdGordon\|	24px isnt big enough anyway :)
06:28:07	JdGordon\|	hmm, i may have misread... yes all cabbie icon sets should be generally the same, so one way or the other they should be synced
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06:32:55	[Saint]	In turn though, that kinda goes with (my initial thoughts on this) "why does RaaA and "standard RB" have to match 100%?"
06:33:10	*	JdGordon\| punches [Saint] in the face...
06:33:14	JdGordon\|	its not RaaA vs regular
06:33:18	JdGordon\|	its touch vs regular
06:33:21	JdGordon\|	BIG DIFFERENCE
06:34:20	[Saint]	My thoughts for the different iconset was "the screens are much higher res, I can have prettier icons".
06:34:41	[Saint]	I pretty much just won't be able to do the same iconset (and have it look right) in 12px
06:34:54	[Saint]	which is where I'm stumped.
06:35:38	JdGordon\|	i'd say dont bother then
06:35:49	JdGordon\|	why cant we have icons-hires and icons-lowres?
06:35:53	JdGordon\|	which we already have anyway
06:36:40	[Saint]	to make them actually look nice, I'd have to change some icons. As some that look good in a higher res look crap scaled down to 12px (to the point you can't even tell what they are).
06:36:58	JdGordon\|	I'm tempted to suggest making something like 72x72 and then resizing on load for raaa
06:37:29	[Saint]	this is where I don't agree with what was proposed...I don't think it's a crime to have different iconsets...but others do.
06:37:40	[Saint]	so, I just kinda threw the towel in.
06:38:28	Llorean	[Saint]: Is there some reason we need to have different icons for the larger set (not want, but actually need, such as missing highrez versions of some of them or something)?
06:38:40	[Saint]	I couldn't even find a few of the icons that the cabbie 12px iconset is made from in the tango iconset now...it seems it's changed too much.
06:38:45	[Saint]	that was another one of my problems.
06:39:43	[Saint]	hah, Llorean...yes, ironically I was just explaining that.
06:40:01	[Saint]	the ones that are different, I either couldn;t find, or the SVN icon is just stupid!
06:40:37	[Saint]	(and, there's lots of cases of that that I "corrected" or tried too. Cases where the action and the icon don't even loosely associate)
06:40:47	Llorean	Maybe bring that up on -dev then. It's impossible to adapt the current iconset, is it okay to go with "thematically similar" or do we need to hunt down icons that look good both hi and low res (which can be quite difficult)
06:41:15	JdGordon\|	[Saint]: can you do a high res version of individual icons possibly, so it can be committed into the source?
06:41:22	JdGordon\|	or are these really tango?
06:41:43	[Saint]	my last point is also very valid. comparing the iconset in svn with their actions, and their actaul usage is a real laugh.
06:42:04	[Saint]	"or are these really tango?" <−− Hm?
06:43:54	JdGordon\|	where is the source images for the icons and everything in cabbie?
06:44:01	JdGordon\|	its embarrasing that it isnt in svn
06:44:11	[Saint]	they don't exist.
06:44:45	[Saint]	I have my own set of values that I've been sticking to for consistency, something svn cabbie just doen't have.
06:45:14	[Saint]	the yellow (even though I am colourblind) even I can see varies wildly.
06:46:46	Llorean	[Saint]: It should be easy to test whether the yellow's different or not no matter how your vision is - just check the RGB value
06:48:34	[Saint]	just flipping through thumbnails in the source and it's pretty obvious. I can't tell personally exactly how bad it is without doing just that though.
06:48:50	[Saint]	I assume a normally sighted person would see it very easily.
06:49:39	Llorean	I haven't noticed it myself, but I never look at them side by side.
06:50:34	[Saint]	My assumption is that it was done to cater for different LCDs, but where possible that should be countered with the default brightness value for the target.
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08:21:29	pixelma	[Saint]: I noticed the different kinds of yellow too and there were also some source bitmaps unnecessarily using 32-bit depth at some point in time - so I think the reason is 'only' that different people worked on the ports using different editors
08:24:36	[Saint]	I think it's also feasible that there are light/dark LCDs, and that authors may have tried to compensate for this.
08:24:56	Llorean	There are definitely light/dark/different tinted LCDs
08:25:04	pixelma	and I think it should be possible to have similar style icons for all ports which may need hand-editing to get the small ones recognisable. There's no need to have it right from the start but experience shows that 'do it later' sometimes gets forgotten (e.g. the greyscale menu icons are just scaled down and should be reworked which hasn't happened ever since...)
08:25:05	Llorean	But I'm not sure I'd guess that's what happened.
08:25:36	pixelma	I doubt i
08:26:00	[Saint]	pixelma did a lot of work on the greyscale cabbies I though...
08:26:10	[Saint]	*thought
08:26:23	pixelma	at least that it happened on purpose for a target lcd - I guess most people used sims
08:26:39	pixelma	only for the WPS
08:26:47	[Saint]	ah.
08:26:52	Llorean	It may be possible that they look different because when they scaled, colors blended differently.
08:26:57	pixelma	not the menu icons
08:27:41	Llorean	But I do know that the colors are fairly different between my Nano, Gigabeast, e200 and c200
08:27:52	Llorean	I mean "the colors" as in everything's colors
08:27:56	Llorean	The screens are just quite different
08:28:36	[Saint]	yeah...if it's going to look different anyway...I think it would be better to have all the source images be consistent...but it's a pretty massive job.
08:28:38	pixelma	the colours on my and amiconn's c200 are already different...
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08:30:03	Llorean	Do we need a color-calibration plugin? ;)
08:30:52	pixelma	I don't think that's possible on our targets ;)
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09:20:30	bertrik	sideral, just another thought regarding interference on the clipv2: it seems we switch GPIO B5 for sd card communication while we shouldn't. I'll disable that tonight.
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09:32:33	kugelp	S_a_i_n_t: did you explain why fixing the 12 pixel icon set is impossible?
09:36:25	S_a_i_n_t	it's not impossible...it's just not very convenient to do it either way. A good percentage of the icons used in the current iconset are no longer available and/or make no sense in the way they are used....and the larger scale ones I substituted in my 24px set look shit scaled down to 12px
09:39:26	S_a_i_n_t	I don't think it would be a shame if the current iconset was dropped like a hot rock, and rethought from the beginning. I don't see the point in adapting the iconset to a flawed mechanism personally....a good ~30% of the icons in the iconset aren't ever used. And viewers are horribly borken.
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09:39:50	S_a_i_n_t	*broken too.
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09:42:39	S_a_i_n_t	A brand spanking new icons/viewers implementation would inspire me to work on it a lot more, I can say that with complete honesty.
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09:44:36	S_a_i_n_t	but that's a huge amount of work, apparently...as shown by the fact that icons slipped from being used for their functions purpose, to being used for the icon that looks best in its place. making for some really weird/broken use of the icons in some places. But that pretty much had to happen, as as the iconset developed the icon function name and the actual icon apparently fell horribly out of sync somewhere.
09:45:49	S_a_i_n_t	looking at the icon, compared to the icon function name, and then comparing that with how the icon is used in practice is a real laugh in some places.
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10:13:18	mem_	Is there a way to sort the bugs (in the rtracker) by plattform? I tested Zagor's Andriod build from last week and I guess the bugs I see related to Android more than to Rockbox in general.
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10:13:49	mem_	Before submiting new bug reports it would be nice to see if they already reported
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10:14:48	Zagor	mem_: we don't track bugs for unreleased targets. they are just too many.
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10:16:39	mem_	Zagor: Should I just leave it or should I write them down in an email?
10:18:25	mem_	Zagor: in general the apk works, so I'm really glad that I got it even if it's some things that could behave differrent!
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10:24:41	Zagor	mem_: a mail to the dev list or just noting them here (for the log) is enough, I think
10:26:51	B4gder	perhaps we should have a wiki page with "known flaws" or something
10:27:02	mem_	zagor: can I post to the dev list without being a member of the dev list?
10:27:55	Zagor	no
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10:32:17	mem_	zagor: no to me or Bagder?
10:33:15	Zagor	mem_: to you. the mailing list is restricted to subscribers. a wiki page might be a good idea.
10:33:53	kugelp	[Saint]: i don't understand
10:34:47	kugelp	with fixing the current one I meant replacing it with a smaller scale of your 24 pixel set
10:35:22	kugelp	how is the wrong-ness of the current set of any relevance there?
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10:48:33	[Saint]	kugelp: I can't see how you don't think the state of the current iconset is a problem.
10:48:46	[Saint]	If it was code, you'd hack it out of the core like a dead limb.
10:49:01	kugelp	if we just replace it with yours?
10:49:05	[Saint]	sure.
10:49:23	kugelp	where is the problem?
10:49:32	[Saint]	mine is just avoiding the fact that it's horribly broken by mixing the icons and their function up even more.
10:49:35	[Saint]	that's not a fix.
10:49:50	kugelp	why not?
10:50:17	[Saint]	that's a workaround...not a fix. If my iconset goes in it's less incentive for anyone to ever "do it right".
10:50:22	kugelp	I thought your icons are good
10:50:26	[Saint]	they are.
10:50:40	[Saint]	but there's 30% of them that never gets used...that's broken.
10:51:24	[Saint]	and that's a conservative estimation.
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10:55:48	kugelp	how does that relate to the icon set?
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10:56:19	kugelp	that doesn't answer my question
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10:57:17	kugelp	replacing something bad with something goodwith no drawbacks sounds like a pretty good fix to me
10:57:46	S_a_i_n_t	I don't see why it's not obvious that fixing the way icons are used is a far better solution to fix the way icons are used instead.
10:57:57	S_a_i_n_t	as opposed to working around their brokenness even more.
10:58:54	S_a_i_n_t	I made the iconset because I was sick of the icons being so weird, and it was beyond my ability to reimplement the way icons are applied.
10:58:59	S_a_i_n_t	it was a workaround.
10:59:19	S_a_i_n_t	My iconset can't fix viewers being busted.
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11:12:31	*	JdGordon\| has no idea what you are arguing about... but its code i implemented, so whats the probme?
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12:02:44	StefARM	i've noticed the fuss around the "various docks" gsoc project. there seems to be quite some interest (and competition :smirk:) regarding the matter, and the project specifications have evolved nicely (at least there's more flexibility now)
12:03:21	StefARM	on the other hand, the usb stack can prove challenging from my experience. anyway, my question is: are we approaching a final form of the project or is it prone to substantial modifications? because i'd like to start documenting and writing some outlines and MO's
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12:09:10	B4gder	StefARM: well, each student is supposed to present his/hers own proposal. What we have in our wiki is just a collection of ideas and suggestions to be used as the foundation for the proposal
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13:09:25	silbo	so did anyone apply for rockbox GSoC yet?
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13:10:14	silbo	I really want to work on rockbox, but I am working hard on my bachelor thesis
13:10:41	silbo	untill summer
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14:17:18	TheSeven	silbo: some people asked for information about various projects, but I have no idea if anyone of them did apply yet
14:17:48	silbo	TheSeven: ok
14:18:19	StefARM	silbo: what are you considering applying for ?
14:19:05	gevaerts	Well, applications aren't open yet, so obviously nobody applied yet :)
14:22:36	TheSeven	btw, has there been any effort to actually port sqlite to rockbox so far? or were there just plans?
14:23:38	gevaerts	There's a working patch
14:23:55	gevaerts	Well, it worked at some point, for some tests
14:24:24	gevaerts	FS #8852
14:24:41	TheSeven	ok, so porting the engine apparently is possible
14:24:49	TheSeven	that's good to know
14:25:06	gevaerts	It's designed to be portable, and it does it quite well :)
14:25:34	silbo	StefARM: I don't know yet, I wanted to make the battery patch for the calibration, but havent had any time because of my thesis
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14:26:15	silbo	StefARM: I really want the experience on participating, but don't know if I am capable of learning all this for summer
14:26:35	gevaerts	You are
14:27:34	silbo	One thing I really would love to learn is optimizing a C code, we have done that in school once on a microcontroller
14:29:10	silbo	Has anyone measured latency of real-time systems before?
14:29:19	gevaerts	Probably :)
14:29:23	silbo	xD
14:29:48	gevaerts	Rockbox isn't really a classic real-time system, so I'm not sure if we care :)
14:29:50	silbo	I am searching for different options to do that, but so far found only 2
14:30:31	gevaerts	Maybe #rockbox-community is a better place for that. Similar people, but no obligation to talk about rockbox :)
14:30:50	silbo	ok
14:32:43	gevaerts	hm, http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,27586.0.html is interesting...
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14:33:41	TheSeven	it does work on target though?
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14:38:45	StefARM	gevaerts: i was living under the impression that rockbox is quite time-dependant (from the top of my head: time quantum sharing between decoding and user commands?! human-insensible response times etc.). but then again i haven't had the chance to study the problem thoroughly. what do you mean it's not a "classic" rts?
14:40:12	gevaerts	StefARM: it means that it can go wrong :)
14:40:28	StefARM	nice one :)
14:42:18	gevaerts	Rockbox basically (warning: simplification ahead, and I'm not an expert!) increases the priority of the codec thread whenever the PCM buffer (which is the last stage before actual sound output) gets rather empty. On players that support it, the CPU frequency also gets boosted then
14:43:02	gevaerts	A similar thing happens with the main audio buffer, which contains (chunks of) the audio files, and which feeds the codec. If that gets low, again the CPU gets boosted, and more data is read from disk
14:43:41	gevaerts	But it's still a classic cooperative multithreading system, so if you have a badly written plugin, that plugin can easily eat all CPU cycles and block audio
14:45:00	StefARM	thus a prioritised real time system...
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14:46:37	gevaerts	Well, yes
14:47:03	gevaerts	But a rather weak one, I'd say
14:47:56	StefARM	silbo: as a fellow student, not as a member of the dev team or anything else: i'd recommend getting a easily programmable core (my choice - cortex m0-m3) with a fast debugger(segger jlink /copy of) and (personal choice) IAR embedded workbenchbench
14:48:43	*	gevaerts points out that that isn't actually about rockbox then :)
14:49:09	StefARM	silbo: get a medium/fast oscilloscope.. and make some pins go on and off... make it a liitle complicated, disassemble, measure software time and you're good to go
14:49:25	StefARM	sorry for the deviation, gevaerts
14:49:55	gevaerts	StefARM: feel free to join #rockbox-community and talk about non-rockbox stuff there!
14:50:03	silbo	xD
14:51:55	silbo	StefARM: ok thx
14:53:47	StefARM	gevaerts: gsoc related question: should one apply as soon as possible or is this irrelevant to the selection process?
14:54:27	B4gder	StefARM: it is irrelevant, but you can update it while the process is open so getting in early and getting feedback to improve with can be good
14:55:00	gevaerts	StefARM: I'm not sure if the timing of the official application matters much (although make sure you check your timezones! 19:00 UTC is 19:00 UTC...), but please talk about what you plan to do :)
14:55:50	B4gder	and from experience from previous years, we know that 50% of the applications are posted the last few hours... .-/
14:56:22	silbo	we plan to rock the box
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14:56:55	B4gder	just the fact that you're here before posting a proposal is better than most =)
14:57:11	StefARM	it's about the "various docks" project. i've had a chat with <saratoga> a couple of days ago, when the project had different specifications. the main problem was a logistic one (not too many sansa docks laying around). but now that's a little more relaxed, as far as resources are concerned
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16:37:15	Misan	I patched and installed the sleep_timer-patch for my clip+ from FS #11042
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16:37:55	Misan	And think its a neat idea... other too think it should go to svn and I wonder what can be done to make it into svn tree
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16:40:01	Torne	no developers ahve commented on it for a while so it's not clear if it's technically acceptable or not
16:40:31	Torne	Hm. it still includes a giant change tot he simulator which is unrelated to the thing in question
16:40:37	Torne	so i'd say that was the firs tthing to fix :)
16:41:24	Misan	hm.. i compiled it for the simulator and it worked there too
16:41:34	Torne	that's not what i mean
16:41:42	Misan	you mean it should not modify the simulator?
16:41:52	Torne	The patch changes two totally seperate and unrealted things: it changes how the sleep timer works, and it also changes how the simulation of power management works
16:42:03	Torne	the original author was presumably using hte latter to make it easier to test the former
16:42:13	Torne	but it should be a seperate patch
16:42:16	Torne	(and task)
16:42:39	Torne	Anyway. Even if that was sorted, the patch is still pretty big and introduces lots of new UI
16:42:56	Torne	this kind of thing is generally tricky to get in because it's a pretty obscure feature that few people (and evidently no developers) care about
16:43:20	Torne	so getting agreement that the UI is as we'd like, and the increase in code size/complexity is worth it, may be tricky.
16:43:31	Misan	i see, thx for the info. so if it were simpler it would get in easier
16:43:52	Torne	Probably, but I don't know how simple it can be made and still do what you/others want.
16:43:59	Torne	Definately the simualtor changes need to be split from it, though
16:44:08	Torne	it's unlikely any developers would seriously consider it until that was done
16:45:36	Torne	they're almost half the patch :)
16:47:34	*	Torne comments as much on the task.
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16:55:02	Misan	ok Torne - i will just follow the development and use the patch for myself meanwhile :-)
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18:17:37	bertrik	Is there anyone here with an AMSv2 variant 1 player (only applicable to clip+ or fuzev2)?
18:18:31	Misan	me
18:18:54	funman	the nice looking girl i just met in the metro 1 hour ago but she left
18:19:12	funman	bertrik: about GPIO B5 ?
18:19:12	boghog	i seem to have an AMSv2 variant 1
18:19:13	Misan	bertrik, i have a clip+ amsv2 v 1
18:19:16	boghog	clip+
18:19:40	bertrik	funman, yes
18:20:02	bertrik	boghog, Misan, great, I like to get something tested for such a player
18:20:34	Misan	about sd driver?
18:21:08	boghog	would love to help test stuff
18:21:34	bertrik	funman, maybe it's not that big of a deal, since the GPIO thing is only done if(sd_present(SD_SLOT_AS3525)), but I'd like to be sure
18:22:43	bertrik	I think the GPIO B5 thing is only needed for AMSv2 variant 1
18:23:00	Misan	i can do a test - what should be tested?
18:25:31	bertrik	Misan, if the internal sd memory and external sd memory still work
18:26:38	bertrik	Misan, boghog, I'll post a link to a binary later tonight, ok?
18:26:58	boghog	alright :)
18:27:05	Misan	bertrik, a patch would be ok too
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18:30:45	saratoga	bertrik: about your post on ABI, is the SD controller unlocked after sd_enable(0)?
18:30:53	saratoga	unclocked rather
18:31:55	bertrik	saratoga, I'm not sure, it could be that sd_enable(false) already stops all sd related clocks, also the ones going to the card
18:33:54	bertrik	Misan, http://pastebin.com/Ehem3Uuq
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18:41:50	funm4n	bertrik: it was added in 25245 for uSD support (before we knew about amsv2 rev 1)
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18:49:13	bertrik	funm4n, odd. As far as I understand, variant 0 uses two CIUs (card interface units) with separate CMD lines for each slot, variant 1 uses only one CIU (ciu number 1) and uses only one CMD line that is switched between the internal and external "slot" using GPIO B5
18:49:33	bertrik	the GPIO B5 switch doesn't appear to be necessary for my AMSv2 variant 0
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18:51:13	funm4n	bertrik: i'll try on my fuzev2 variant 0 in a moment
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19:03:34	funm4n	bertrik: variant 0 seems to work properly though there might be a problem on uSD ejection? i still see <microSD1> present in the list but leaving the menu clears it
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19:05:32	bertrik	I've seen that before the patch too.
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19:06:10	[Saint]	that sounds like a problem with the lists refreshing.
19:06:35	[Saint]	the fact that leaving the menu and returning clears it is kinda suspicious there.
19:06:56	funm4n	bertrik: ok, then it's all good for me. did you run battery_bench yet?
19:07:09	bertrik	funm4n, no, not yet
19:08:00	funm4n	i hope pamaury takes a look at USB, on flyspray it's reported to run without problems even on windows
19:08:23	bertrik	cool, maybe the earlier problems were related to other bugs then
19:08:26	pamaury	I didn't try but I'll have try to have a look
19:08:49	pamaury	perhaps the bugs were only partially related to usb
19:09:00	bertrik	bugs like the last 0xF000 blocks not being accessible
19:09:03	saratoga	scorche: ban cenfwxkey
19:10:12	funm4n	bertrik: i think this bug was added in january (recently)
19:10:15	AlexP	saratoga: done
19:10:21	saratoga	thanks
19:10:24	funm4n	did you try gcc 4.6.0 already? (especially LTO)
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19:11:24	funm4n	Several improvements were committed to improve code generation for the ARM architecture including a rewritten implementation for load and store multiples.
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19:12:13	saratoga	so it won't do insane stuff like stack and unstack the same registers :)
19:12:51	funm4n	they don't say anything about presence or absence of bugs in the 'rewritten implementation' :)
19:13:06	gevaerts	That means there are no bugs!
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19:15:11	saratoga	not sure if that was a bug, i think the compiler just didn't take into account how to optimize loads and stores with register usage effectively on arm7/9/11
19:15:14	*	funm4n tries gcc 4.6.0 / binutils 2.21
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19:16:48	Guest42652	bertrik, I applied the patch, and applied it - it been recognized on startup
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19:17:42	Guest42652	uh.. but removing and reinserting did not work properly
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19:18:16	Guest42652	hmm... i was in debug i guess thats why
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19:21:10	saratoga	digging through the gcc mailing list to figure out exactly what they fixed for arm now
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19:34:22	saratoga	funm4n: unless i've got the wrong patch, i think most of the ldm changes are for thumb
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19:45:37	funm4n	saratoga: good news for clipv1 then?
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19:47:11	saratoga	does that use thumb?
19:50:09	funm4n	yes like c200v2 (because they have 2MB of ram) and m200v4 iirc
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19:59:43	saidjj	hi everyone! i need a little help: which firmware i should download for my ipod 4g grayscale from here http://www.felixbruns.de/iPod/firmware/?
20:00
20:01:01	funm4n	ah gcc 4.6.0 needs libmpc
20:02:05	Torne	saidjj: ...the one for your ipod?
20:02:14	Torne	what do you need it for anyway? :)
20:03:08	saidjj	Torne: i'm not sure between the 2 possible choices
20:03:51	Torne	whichever one you want..
20:03:58		Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
20:04:02	Torne	probably the latest, if you don't know the difference :)
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20:05:35	saidjj	Torne: mm the version seems to be the same.. i can't understand the difference between 4 and 10
20:05:44	Torne	that's teh version as well
20:05:58	Torne	no, i have no idea why there are two version numbers
20:06:05	Torne	but one of those is version 4 and one is version 10 :)
20:06:53	Torne	what are you doing?
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20:07:39	saidjj	I probably won't do it! I'm not so sure
20:08:06	CIA-2	New commit by bertrik (r29656): AMSv2 sd: do sd slot switching with GPIO B5 only for AMSv2 variant 1
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20:08:55	Torne	won't do what?
20:09:42	saidjj	restore my ipod
20:10:04	Torne	if you need to restore it the easiest and most reliable way ist o let itunes do it.
20:10:54	saidjj	you are right, it's easier.. i'm gonna find a windows machine
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20:12:00	funm4n	/tools/convttf needs ot be added to svn:ignore
20:12:02	saidjj	you know how to boot the original firmware instead of rockbox?
20:12:52	CIA-2	r29656 build result: All green
20:12:57	funm4n	saidjj: the manual knows
20:12:58	Torne	yes, and so does the manual. :)
20:13:13	saidjj	mm ok i got it
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20:29:03	amiconn	bertrik: How do I know what variant a clip+ is?
20:29:29	bertrik	amiconn, it's in the HW info debug menu
20:30:07	amiconn	Ah, of course. Mine is a variant 0
20:33:37	funm4n	bertrik: what was teh capacity of the card you tested? (i had a 1GB - not HC -, wondering if that matters)
20:34:07	bertrik	I tried a 4 GB SDHC and a 2 GB card (non-SDHC I think)
20:34:56	funm4n	ah, can 2GB cards be HC ? don't remember the low limits for HC
20:36:37	saratoga	they're usually not HC, but i think they can be
20:37:11	funm4n	having HC cards breaks compatibility with non HC players so I doubt there is such a card on the market
20:37:28	saratoga	well theres hardly any market for non-HC cards anyway
20:37:50	saratoga	most microSD devices are going into phones, which are almost universally HC
20:39:02	funm4n	saratoga: (just curious) do you have USB performance benches for amsv2? (OF vs rockbox), perhaps with test_disk results also to compare what we 'lose' in USB transfers
20:39:28	saratoga	funm4n: i didn't formally test, but extracting rockbox.zip takes much, much longer on clip+
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20:39:34	saratoga	i can test now though
20:41:49	saratoga	ugh stupid OF can't detect an SD card inserted while in USB mode
20:42:07	funm4n	stupid rockbox neither iirc ;)
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20:46:21	saratoga	funm4n: 5.4MB/s for the internal memory, 3.97MB/s for the external copying a large AVI file over USB in the OF
20:47:01	saratoga	(write speed)
20:47:19	saratoga	for whatever reason copying small files seems quite a lot slower then i would expect, usually flash memory isn't so bad at that
20:50:26	wtachi	could someone on the wiki add me (SeanBartell) to WikiUsersGroup?
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20:57:04	pixelma	wtachi: one moment, what do you want to work on by the way? Just curious :)
20:58:00	saratoga	wtachi: done
20:58:05	wtachi	moving AllocatingRAM to MemoryManagement and adding stuff
20:58:07	wtachi	thanks
20:59:04	saratoga	sorry, wiki was a bit flaky, i think its done now
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21:00
21:00:24	wtachi	it works now
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21:04:32	*	amiconn summons Zagor or Bagder
21:05:26	amiconn	Something is wrong with http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi ... 29656 doesn't show up in the time/ score table
21:08:40	bertrik	boghog, can you try this patch? http://pastebin.com/6JRuGZQ5
21:16:03	bertrik	or do you need a binary
21:17:45	bertrik	saratoga, I would be interested in the number of retries and re-inits for AMS(v2) players. Maybe these are happening a lot more than we think, slowing things down.
21:18:01	bertrik	(on the sd card interface I mean)
21:18:16	saratoga	bertrik: fwiw those numbers were for the OF
21:18:34	bertrik	ah ok
21:18:51	saratoga	although that may be something worth looking into
21:19:05	saratoga	and I have no idea if the OF really does thing optimally
21:20:34	funm4n	saratoga: are you using usb with rockbox?
21:20:46	saratoga	no i haven't tried it
21:21:02	funm4n	it's just a matter of uncommenting USE_ROCKBOX_USB in config/xxx.h
21:21:22	funm4n	(i also remove USB_HANDLED_BY_OF so rockbox detects when i change rockbox.sansa)
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21:22:27	bertrik	rigoletto, can you try this patch : http://pastebin.com/6JRuGZQ5
21:22:33	saratoga	i'll try and test it later
21:25:55	funm4n	checking for library containing strerror... configure: error: Link tests are not allowed after GCC_NO_EXECUTABLES.
21:25:58	funm4n	make[1]: *** [configure-target-libiberty] Erreur 1
21:26:02	funm4n	no gcc 4.6.0 out of the box
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21:36:09	n1s	funm4n: playing with the new gcc?
21:38:34	boghog	bertrik, currently building a cross-compiler so should hopefully be able to use patch
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21:41:03	funm4n	n1s: just trying to build it atm
21:41:34	n1s	i wanted to play with it but havent' found the time yet
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22:00
22:01:20	funm4n	not sure why gcc is building a target libiberty
22:01:21		Quit StefARM (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:04:02	bertrik	boghog, I could post a binary if you want
22:04:34	boghog	alright
22:04:47	boghog	binary would probably be quicker, building crosscompiler seems to take a while :p
22:05:18		Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:05:21	[Saint]	(now, wait by the mailbox...it'll be there in a week ;))
22:07:11	funm4n	In file included from ../../../gcc-4.6.0/libiberty/safe-ctype.c:119:0:
22:07:12	funm4n	../../../gcc-4.6.0/libiberty/../include/safe-ctype.h:122:19: erreur fatale: ctype.h : Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
22:07:14	funm4n	:/
22:07:51	pamaury	\o/
22:08:01	pamaury	the wonderful world of gcc building ;)
22:08:51	*	funm4n tries something
22:08:58	bertrik	boghog, http://www.datafilehost.com/download-2e93fcff.html <-copy rockbox.sansa into the .rockbox directory on the clip+
22:09:06	funm4n	libiberty might be needed for gcc binary, but not for our rockbox code
22:11:59	boghog	bertrik, ok installed it and rebooted into it
22:12:49		Quit u42p (Quit: Leaving)
22:13:03	boghog	i have no idea what to actually test btw, just so you know :p
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22:14:45	newnick	does anybody know of an OS for the Sansa Fuze+?
22:15:01	newnick	oh wow fail
22:15:13		Nick newnick is now known as LotusExige (~a8d4429c@giant.haxx.se)
22:15:31	LotusExige	you know what, I will ask tonight
22:15:36	LotusExige	I have to go to my next class
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22:17:04	bertrik	boghog, can you check if it is still able to access a card in the external sd slot?
22:17:54		Quit TheLemonMan (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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22:19:23	boghog	hmm i'm not enitely sure, I can browse the external sdcard, but can't play songs from it
22:19:34	boghog	it will just get stuck at 0:00
22:20:15	boghog	hmm, I actually see 'codec failure'
22:20:23	boghog	or something flash by when I start playing something
22:20:55	bertrik	oh, that's probably a version mismatch between the .sansa file and the other files in rockbox (codecs, plugins, etc.)
22:20:55	boghog	I had rockobx 3.8 installed on this thing though, if that matters
22:21:00	boghog	ah yeah
22:21:07	boghog	I just built rockbox from svn
22:21:12	funm4n	jst grab the crrent build
22:21:14	funm4n	or that
22:21:15	bertrik	Please first install the current zipfile, then overwrite the rockbox.sansa file
22:25:14	funm4n	ok, now i have t hack more to remove target-zlib
22:26:05	boghog	bertrik, ok looks like its working
22:26:31	bertrik	cool, thanks for testing
22:26:57	boghog	np, just poke me here on irc if you ever need anything else tested
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22:30:12	funm4n	WARNING: Your cross-compiler arm-elf-eabi-gcc 4.6.0 is not of the recommended
22:30:12	funm4n	WARNING: version 4.4.4!
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22:36:34	n1s	funm4n: \o/
22:37:56	rigoletto	bertrik, shall i use this patch to head or to the patch you already supplied?
22:38:06	bertrik	rigoletto, to svn trunk
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22:40:04	rigoletto	bertrik, is that the patch you sent to boghog? shall i still test it?
22:40:23	bertrik	no, it think it's OK
22:41:55	rigoletto	since i had to change the clock today on my clip+, i wonder if rockbox would be interested in timezones :-)
22:42:28	funm4n	a lot of 'variable XXX set but not used' warnings
22:42:47	funm4n	rigoletto: timezones is an ever changing thing (wrt summer time)
22:43:31	funm4n	OS need frequent updates to their timezone definitions to do the right thing; i am not sure we need so much complexity in rockbox
22:43:59	n1s	we reject that idea twice every year :)
22:44:03	rigoletto	I see - :-)
22:44:03	funm4n	:p
22:44:09	rigoletto	hehe
22:44:27	n1s	funm4n: yeah the set but not used warnings are new in 4.6 so i guess that's expected
22:44:29		Quit piotrekm (Quit: piotrekm)
22:46:57	funm4n	/media/bordel/rockbox/apps/recorder/bmp.c:495:11: warning: variable ‘transparent’ set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
22:46:58	CIA-2	New commit by bertrik (r29657): AMSv2 sd: correct CLKENA settings (to stop sd clock when idle) for AMSv2 variant 1 players
22:47:00	funm4n	^ bug
22:48:29	funm4n	fuzev2 binary is 1k smaller
22:48:57	bertrik	out of 500k or so?
22:49:19	funm4n	600
22:49:32	funm4n	both mp3 decoding & chopper work, but USB plugging causes panic :'(
22:49:44	funm4n	'wrong architecture'
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22:52:13	bertrik	maybe the extract macro causes weirdness
22:52:49	bertrik	reading the hardware register quickly several times in a row or something
22:53:55	bertrik	oh, I misunderstand it
23:00
23:01:34	bertrik	boghog, rigoletto, can you test this patch? http://pastebin.com/K056DJiL please test it with as many uSD cards you have
23:02:40	rigoletto	bertrik, sure! i only have one - what should be expected?
23:03:18	bertrik	It should just work, possibly speed up the boot process by about 100 ms :)
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23:08:43	rigoletto	bertrik, works - but both internal and external cards showed 25mb/s instead of 50
23:11:44	bertrik	rigoletto, correct, the patch disables switching the card into high speed mode. The code to set high-speed mode is less than half done (the sd controller itself is still running at normal speed); it's not actually getting slower now.
23:13:01	rigoletto	uhm... so you suggest to got to the current patch? i admit.. sometimes usb support got stuck but it works most of the time
23:15:56	bertrik	my patch applies to svn trunk if that's what you mean
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23:17:26	rigoletto	by stating: "its not actually getting slower" you mean transfer rates via usb?
23:18:03	bertrik	rigoletto, no I mean transfer to/from the sd card, just copying data around
23:21:18	rigoletto	bertrik, about timings −− i don´t understand to put them into high speed if there is no speed difference
23:22:22	rigoletto	or am i misunderstanding something?
23:23:00	bertrik	rigoletto, no, you're not misunderstanding, I think that part was copied from the AMSv1 sd controller driver, but never really properly implemented for AMSv2
23:23:49		Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:470:28:773:babe:feed:dead:beef)
23:25:54		Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called)
23:26:47	rigoletto	bertrik, thanks you for helping out - do you get your ideas for implementing from the ARM926EJ datasheet?
23:27:34	rigoletto	or more specific.. is there a AMSv2 datasheet out there?
23:27:44	bertrik	no, the recent changes in the sd controller come from the user manual of the nxp lpc3100 microcontrollers
23:28:39		Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:28:44	bertrik	AMSv2 has a mix of various "standard" peripheral controller blocks for ARM microcontrollers
23:29:06	funm4n	can't link with -flto
23:29:47		Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.198.221)
23:32:40	rigoletto	bertrik, I found the lpc3130/31 - is it the one you were talking about?
23:32:48		Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@genld-219-248.t-mobile.co.uk)
23:33:13	bertrik	yes, but this only describes the sd card controller
23:36:04	funm4n	http://pastebin.com/MLJEZREm
23:36:25	funm4n	LD rockbox.elf
23:36:25	funm4n	{standard input}: Assembler messages:
23:36:25	funm4n	{standard input}:569: Error: selected processor does not support Thumb mode `msr cpsr_c,r4'
23:36:32	funm4n	clipv1 build fails earlier than fuzev2
23:39:43	funm4n	clipv1 ram usage is 12k smaller with gcc 4.6.0 (untested though)
23:40:35	boghog	bertrik, should I apply that patch on top of the preveous one or can I just apply it to a fresh svn checkout
23:40:55	bertrik	boghog, you can apply it on a fresh checkout
23:44:45		Join emo [0] (~4eb3f95d@giant.haxx.se)
23:47:05	CIA-2	New commit by funman (r29658): maze: fix warning spotted by gcc 4.6.0
23:47:05	CIA-2	New commit by funman (r29659): remove set but unused variable
23:47:49	CIA-2	r29658 build result: All green
23:48:11	emo	hello, i use rockbox on sansa v1, i will use AS2535 SOC chip without internal flash or memory. i will use only micro sd card for voice recording. is it possible?
23:49:05	gevaerts	emo: which sansa?
23:49:16	emo	sansa fuze v1
23:49:30	funm4n	it's spelled as3525 not 2535
23:49:37	emo	ok sory
23:49:42	funm4n	sure it's possible
23:49:45	gevaerts	You can set where the recordings should go, yes, so you should be able to put them on the microSD card
23:50:45	saratoga	bertrik: that datasheet also uses the same memory controller, interseting to look at it
23:50:48	emo	but, i will remove internal memory chips.
23:51:03	saratoga	well then it won't boot
23:51:30	emo	this device boot on microsd?
23:51:33	CIA-2	r29659 build result: All green
23:51:56	emo	it is possible ?
23:52:07	funm4n	no
23:52:08	saratoga	no
23:53:10		Part ezzieyguywuf
23:53:35	emo	why not soc boot on microsd
23:53:51	funm4n	ask sandisk not #rockbox
23:54:00	emo	ok thank you
23:54:17		Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:55:55	n1s	funm4n: does it build fine without lto?
23:56:10	funm4n	yes
23:56:24	saratoga	funm4n: did you set up the MPMC settings?
23:56:38		Quit emo (Quit: CGI:IRC)
23:57:27	funm4n	mostly took the timings from the OF
23:57:54	funm4n	i changed a few settings compared to OF iirc

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