#rockbox 2011-03-31

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#rockbox log for 2011-03-31

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00:01:47	CIA-48	r29662 build result: All green
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02:43:39	[Saint]	[03:05] <kugelp> ffs, this volume blast needs to be fixed, it's pretty dangerous for the ears
02:43:45	[Saint]	would you consider reverting it?
02:43:57	[Saint]	I'm literally afraid to use RB on my phone now.
02:44:19	[Saint]	I have to plug in a cheap pair of phones so I don't risk damaging my IEMs or internal speaker.
02:44:24	[Saint]	it's really shit.
02:44:52	[Saint]	Even if the other way was "broken"...it wasn't dangerous.
02:45:19	[Saint]	I'll take unusual or slightly broken over outright dangerous any day.
03:00
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04:22:04	saratoga	heh i like that guy on the user list suggesting we use some random closed source library for text to speech
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05:39:06	rasher	saratoga: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=552499
05:46:57	saratoga	is there a free version in there somewhere? the webpage says you have to pay to use it in embedded devices
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06:00
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06:13:00	oldbushie	augh!!
06:13:14	oldbushie	mucking with linux has been an utter nightmare for me
06:13:39	oldbushie	I tried upgrading my old vm to Ubuntu 10 build by build, but it got all screwed up
06:13:45	oldbushie	so I had to reinstall
06:14:09	oldbushie	and now I'm trying to deal with the over "friendliness" of Kubuntu, they completely changed the way a lot of things are done
06:14:23	oldbushie	and I accidentally modified the application/x-desktop mime type
06:14:33	[Saint]	that's all very well and good...but offtopic
06:14:37	oldbushie	does anyone have kde and can tell me what it's supposed to say for the file types?
06:14:41	oldbushie	google is failing me
06:14:57	oldbushie	sorry, I'm doing all this in order to get an environment set up to build RockBox for Android
06:15:06	oldbushie	it's... proven rather convoluted
06:15:12	[Saint]	try the support channel for the OS
06:15:45		Quit panni_ (Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de ))
06:15:59	oldbushie	screw it, I'll leave the broken mime type in place
06:16:09	oldbushie	I've spent too many hours on this process
06:16:16	oldbushie	google fails me
06:16:33	[Saint]	I realise that the eventual outcome of this is RB related, but this generic OS stuff isn't.
06:16:46	oldbushie	I understand that, I'm jsut rather frustrated right now
06:16:56	oldbushie	I apologize for ranting
06:17:04	[Saint]	I'm sure there's a support channel for the OS.
06:17:47	oldbushie	yes, I know
06:18:28	[Saint]	really, it should be as simple as "get VMware, download the Ubuntu .iso, burn it, install it, set up environment, done."
06:18:43	[Saint]	it's a reasonable DL for a slow connection though.
06:19:12	oldbushie	well, my internet's fine, it's just all the dependencies and environemtn setting up that takes a while
06:19:27	oldbushie	I was just hoping the old one I had set up would be sufficient but it was a little too old
06:19:37	[Saint]	you don't even need VM ware...you can install alongside windows if you prefer/have a free disk or partition
06:20:03	[Saint]	or inside it even, iirc
06:20:07	oldbushie	I don't really, all my hard drives are all tied up
06:20:14	[Saint]	s/it/windows/
06:20:44	[Saint]	but now I'm sliding offtopic ;)
06:20:48	oldbushie	I heard about something called Wubi
06:20:50	oldbushie	heh
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06:45:40	*	[Saint] finally adds a task re: "dangerous volume levels in RaaA on app start"
06:46:18	*	JdGordon\| closes as "by design" :p
06:47:07	[Saint]	I need to add another task...but before I can, there needs to be "Touch Screen" added to "Player Type"
06:47:31	[Saint]	otherwise I can't actually define it.
06:47:39	JdGordon\|	and the [people to make that happen are asleep
06:47:47	JdGordon\|	just put it under anyway
06:47:50	JdGordon\|	anything*
06:48:16	[Saint]	what's most fitting if it's a touchscreen specific skin bug?
06:48:41	[Saint]	that's what I was stuck on.
06:48:54	JdGordon\|	d2 or mr500
06:49:06	JdGordon\|	almost noone cares about that anyway
06:50:15	[Saint]	I feel weird about that, as although I know it will hit all the touchscreen targets...I haven't experienced it on that player type.
06:50:28	[Saint]	but there's no other way to do it, so, "meh".
06:52:03	oldbushie	yay, compiled
06:52:08	oldbushie	now to see if t kills my phone or not
06:52:12	oldbushie	*it
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06:52:33	[Saint]	worst that'll happen is an FC iiuc
06:53:14	[Saint]	oldbushie: What screen resolution is your device out of interest?
06:53:45	*	[Saint] is working on a potential default theme for RaaA/touchscreen targets
06:53:58	[Saint]	...slowly ;)
06:55:04	oldbushie	it works! hallelujah
06:55:08	oldbushie	correct logo size and all
06:55:13	oldbushie	480x800
06:55:17	oldbushie	Thunderbolt
06:55:24	[Saint]	ahhh, excellent.
06:55:28	[Saint]	One sec.
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06:58:13	[Saint]	here ya go, http://www.datafilehost.com/download-393d2b4f.html
06:58:51	[Saint]	extract to the SD card, then select the theme DEFAULT from settings/theme settings/browse themes
06:59:26	[Saint]	(aliased fonts, nice .sbs, nice .wps (slightly broken popups presently...but, working on it)
06:59:41	[Saint]	oldbushie: ^
07:00
07:00:19	oldbushie	gotcha
07:02:00	[Saint]	It's still technically "cabbie" (our default theme) in my opinion, but I doubt I can call it cabbieV2 anymore. It keeps the traditional "face of Rockbox" with some more modern twists.
07:02:44	[Saint]	also, playback control in the .sbs \o/
07:03:28	oldbushie	ah cool
07:03:40	oldbushie	now I gotta find a file browser for android so I can unzip it
07:04:04	[Saint]	No no no...unzip it from the PC onto the SDcard, less hassle ;)
07:04:14	oldbushie	oh, lol
07:04:18	oldbushie	lame
07:04:33	[Saint]	Sorry, my fault. I wasn't very specific.
07:04:54	oldbushie	I've got my pc set up as an ftp server so I can quickly move files around
07:08:59	oldbushie	meh, doing usb for now
07:09:07	oldbushie	andftp doesn't let me transfer directories
07:09:38	oldbushie	is there a particular folder it has to be in?
07:10:03	[Saint]	No, the .zip is set up so it just needs to be extracted to the root of the SD
07:10:17	[Saint]	it may warn that the folder "rockbox" exists, this is fine.
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07:11:48	oldbushie	oh, heh
07:11:53	oldbushie	hadn't actually looked inside it
07:12:17	*	oldbushie is doingway too many things right now
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07:14:20	[Saint]	If you've used RaaA before, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by this theme. There's one issue with it currently where the two popups in the while playing screen break the scrolling text behind them, but I have set it up so that it's still fully functional without these popups.
07:14:46	[Saint]	If you need any help figuring out the touch areas, just ask...but my hope is that it's fairly intuitive.
07:14:49	oldbushie	I've actually never used RockBox before, though I was originally looking into it when looking for an alternative firmware for my Creative Zen
07:15:08	oldbushie	all I know is that it and foobar2000 are the best apps for seamless music playback, and foobar2000 has no android port
07:15:42	oldbushie	what I'm seeing with this theme right now is that the text is too big and doesn't line up with the graphics correctly
07:15:56	oldbushie	namely the top bar
07:16:24		Quit bluefoxx (Quit: Can we, should we, will we?)
07:17:08	[Saint]	that sounds odd...though it is a work in progress. It might sort itself out if you reload the theme from the theme .cfg in settings/theme settings/browse themes
07:17:29	oldbushie	hm
07:17:39	oldbushie	also it appears to be crashing when I try to go to files
07:17:54	oldbushie	but that could be because there's a database present from the previous apk I got for ROckBox
07:18:09	[Saint]	files/database are entirely seperate
07:18:17	oldbushie	nope, everything I press is crashing, not good
07:18:31	oldbushie	it gets to the main screen and when I try to select anything it goes boom
07:19:05	[Saint]	have you rebooted the device? force closing the RB service would be sufficient also.
07:19:15	oldbushie	I did force close it...
07:19:42	oldbushie	could it be because the files are being copied over from a windows machine?
07:20:39	[Saint]	Nope, if you remove the "rockbox" folder from the SDcard and reboot the phone/restart the RaaA process it will revert to using the built in theme.
07:21:24	[Saint]	or manually delete the folders "wps" "icons" "backdrops" "themes" and "fonts"
07:22:14	[Saint]	Right now, I don't have an explanation for the behaviour you're experiencing...it's been tested on other devices with success.
07:22:31	oldbushie	well, my setup is weird I guess
07:22:36	oldbushie	since I'm a Windows user :P
07:22:44	[Saint]	I am too :D
07:22:48	oldbushie	hehe
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07:24:48	[Saint]	Oh....shit!
07:24:50		Join FlynDice [0] (~FlynDice@c-24-19-225-90.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
07:24:53	[Saint]	yeah...now I see it.
07:25:00	[Saint]	the themeeditor mangled my .sbs
07:25:43	[Saint]	apparently it can't deal with having two different projects open with the same file/dir/naming structure
07:26:31		Quit Buganini (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
07:27:06	oldbushie	ah, ok
07:27:22	oldbushie	I'm glad it's not just me then
07:27:34	[Saint]	No, it was me ;)
07:27:47	oldbushie	oh, and I managed to find the right extensions of x-desktop, that's refixed
07:27:49	[Saint]	Or rather, the themeeditor replacing code from one theme version with another.
07:28:00	oldbushie	setting up eclipse in linux so I can peek at RockBox source code
07:28:17	[Saint]	You don't need eclipse
07:28:24	[Saint]	gedit will do ;)
07:28:39	[Saint]	emacs, vim, <editor>
07:28:54	wtachi	notepad
07:29:10	oldbushie	lol
07:29:14	oldbushie	but I like eclipse...
07:29:31	oldbushie	also, I'm one of those absurd people who likes nano
07:29:38	oldbushie	I never could get used to vim or emacs
07:30:12	oldbushie	"Android requires compiler compliance level 5.0. Please fix project properties."
07:30:13	oldbushie	odd
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07:31:56	oldbushie	oh, heh
07:31:59	oldbushie	picked wrong option
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07:41:08	FlynDice	bertrik:(logs) re: HS mode for SD cards I went back and took a look at the HS info after popping in a few days ago. My understanding is that HS mode is simply a change in timings used by the SD card. 25 MHz is the upper limit for non HS timing and 50 MHz is the limit for HS timings. There's no HS controller mode to set besides regulating the data bus frequency within the limits.
07:41:52	FlynDice	pp 3-9 & 3-10 of this sandisk manual have some additional info not included in the SD Spec
07:41:59	FlynDice	http://www.flashgenie.net/img/productmanualsdcardv2.2final.pdf
07:43:05	[Saint]	oldbushie: fixed (I hope): http://www.datafilehost.com/download-aea138f4.html
07:43:20		Quit FlynDice (Remote host closed the connection)
07:43:32	[Saint]	the problem was that the themeeditor decided to replace all the .wps code with the .sbs code.
07:44:03	[Saint]	And I have definitely learnt my lesson about working on multiple projects in the same instance of the themeeditor.
07:45:07	[Saint]	oldbushie: May I have a real name for the purposes of my theme credits?
07:45:26	oldbushie	here goes
07:45:32	[Saint]	You can opt out if you'd like, or PM if you'd prefer...I just like to give credit where credit's due.
07:45:40	oldbushie	Aaron Light, if you must :)
07:45:46	oldbushie	not doing much besides testing tho ;)
07:46:11	oldbushie	MUCH better
07:46:50	[Saint]	Thanks, testing is the important pert...I can write all the code in the world, but if I can't run it on device and I can't find someone like yourself who can....
07:46:56	[Saint]	not a lot gets done ;)
07:46:59	oldbushie	true..
07:47:11	oldbushie	I do like testing new things :)
07:47:31	oldbushie	I'm actually a developer for The Silver Lining, it's been great fun so far
07:48:43	oldbushie	this theme definitely makes it easier to select the different options
07:48:57	[Saint]	Well, with any luck, and most likely many more revisions down the track...I'm hoping to get this theme committed as the default RaaA/touchscreen theme
07:49:04	[Saint]	But there's a fair bit to do still.
07:50:37	oldbushie	oh, hey, dunno why it wasn't working before but I re-synced some files from the repo and there's no errors in eclipse now
07:54:45	oldbushie	ok, so here's my question for you
07:54:48	[Saint]	in the .wps, the touch areas are reasonably intuitive...I hope. The playback buttons are all prettu obvious, long hold on the volume icon is mute/unmute, tappting the title bar "now playing" opens the main menu, holding it opens the quickscreen. Tapping the current playing song info opens the playlist screen, holding it opens the context menu. Tapping the next track info skips to the next track. Tapping albumart is the .wps HOTKEY func
07:54:57	oldbushie	is this capable of playing m3u playlist files that have urls in them?
07:55:00	[Saint]	The .sbs is similar too in the aspects that apply.
07:55:26	[Saint]	oldbushie: not to my knowledge.
07:55:29	oldbushie	hrm
07:55:36	oldbushie	I was kinda hoping
07:55:43	oldbushie	since I have a media server
07:55:50	oldbushie	would be nice to use this to tap into it
07:56:04	oldbushie	maybe I'll have to learn how to program that in
07:56:08		Quit wtachi (Quit: :tiuQ)
07:57:39	oldbushie	it sees m3u files at least, but I guess it doesn't like urls and can't do buffering and all that fun stuff
07:58:30	[Saint]	yeah, it can play both .m3u and .m3u8 playlists...but I don't believe there's any support for webservers/streaming etc.
07:59:10	oldbushie	pity
07:59:20	oldbushie	I wonder if there's any apps that have that already
08:00
08:00:09	[Saint]	Do let me know if you find something in this theme that seems counterintuitive, or just plain broken (other than the two popup tabs/windows in the .wps blanking out the text behind them, I know about that ;) )
08:00:22	oldbushie	heh, alright :)
08:01:48	[Saint]	I gave a bit of a rundown a few posts ago about how the touch areas work, and, I'm pretty confident I left an alternate way to do all the things you'd want/need to do in the .wps without using the popups.
08:02:06	[Saint]	Some of the touch areas don't seem immediately obvious, though...I know that much.
08:02:30		Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@nat2-149.fh-giessen.de)
08:03:45	oldbushie	"Android MediaPlayer doesn't support streaming of MP3 natively until 2.2. In older versions of the OS it appears to only stream 3GP natively. You can try the pocketjourney code, although it's old (there's a new version here) and I had trouble making it sticky — it would stutter whenever it refilled the buffer."
08:04:08	oldbushie	so it looks like something that can be added, with the caveat that it won't work on older devices
08:04:46	[Saint]	I'm not sure if it's an OS limitation, or just wasn't added in X version
08:05:20	oldbushie	probably something that just wasn't native til then
08:05:35	oldbushie	looks like there's stuff like StreamFurious which supposedly takes m3us with urls
08:07:42	[Saint]	For this non-Rockbox-specific general stuff, you might want to consider joining #rockbox-community ( <−− just click that with a "sane" IRC client), it's the same people, but this stuff won't be offtopic.
08:08:47	oldbushie	alright :)
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08:18:04	kugel	[Saint]: I'm not sure if bug reports are appropriate for unusable ports (don't even know if we have a policy for that)
08:18:49	[Saint]	Then, why is it listed as a player type?
08:19:24	[Saint]	I would assume if a bug can't be lodged against it, the ability to do so should be removed.
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08:21:14	kugel	interesting, I didn't see we have an android player type
08:21:43		Quit JdGordon\| (Quit: leaving)
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08:21:56	[Saint]	There's even "Generic RaaA" also
08:22:09	kugel	Zagor: FS #12034
08:22:41	[Saint]	kugel: You're suffering this too?
08:22:45	kugel	[Saint]: you use the term RaaA but I think it's really an android specific thing
08:23:06	kugel	[Saint]: you quoted me saying that...
08:23:21	[Saint]	Hmmm...feel free to edit it appropriately if you have the permissions to do so kugel
08:23:27	[Saint]	ah yes, I did too. ;)
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08:24:15	*	kugel wants movement towards autobuilding android raaa
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08:24:52	[Saint]	that would be nice...but how would signing be handled?
08:25:02	[Saint]	the machines sign individually?
08:25:17	[Saint]	the get passed back to a master server to get signed there?
08:25:24	[Saint]	s/the/they/
08:25:33	Zagor	either a single machine does the android build, or a subset of checked and signed machines
08:26:16	[Saint]	couldn;t the farm build to an extent, then pass back to a master to be signed by the same machine?
08:26:42	[Saint]	that way updates would work without the need to uninstall first.
08:26:43	Zagor	no. that would mean we sign any malware a client would care to insert
08:26:52	[Saint]	ah.
08:27:16	Zagor	the android build has a much higher need for security than the other builds
08:27:19	[Saint]	So I guess it just has to be one machine doing the signing/building then.
08:28:30	Zagor	one, or a set of trusted authenticated machines
08:30:53	Zagor	kugel: I have a hackish workaround for that. the problem really is that rockbox isn't designed to get volume externally. it sets it four(!) times during startup-
08:32:44	[Saint]	well...at this point I'm prepared to say even a hackish workaround is better than the current state.
08:33:20	[Saint]	when I get blasted, it's loud...like, really loud. It seems as though RB is not using the full volume range.
08:33:56	Zagor	how is loud an indication that RB is not using the full volume range?
08:34:44	[Saint]	The difference between the horrible full volume blast, and "full volume" is quite noticable with the internal speaker on my handset
08:36:24	Zagor	that sounds odd. the same volume code is causing the blast and setting the full volume
08:37:06	[Saint]	all the while, I notice that RaaA's volume icon displays what the volume should be set to.
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08:37:17	Zagor	yes
08:39:34	[Saint]	I also find it very confusing that the widget uses the "large"/standard Android volume steps, but the main RaaA binary has the fine volume control on the HW keys
08:39:44	[Saint]	it's very bob-uniform
08:39:52	[Saint]	*s/bob/non/
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08:41:33	Zagor	I don't know anything about the widget
08:42:06	B4gder	why does the widget use volume?
08:42:21	Zagor	I expect it doesn't, which means android changes it
08:42:39	B4gder	so it is different if the widget is present or not?
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08:43:16	[Saint]	I'm not sure I grasp that question.
08:43:16	Zagor	B4gder: to my understanding, no. it is only different if rockbox is in the foreground or not.
08:43:38	[Saint]	RaaA's volume implementation doesn't change if the widget is present or not.
08:44:51	[Saint]	which is another thing that is weird IMO, having fine volume control in the forground but "large"/standard steps when it's in the background.
08:45:13	[Saint]	I imagine that would seem very odd to a newcomer.
08:45:17	Zagor	[Saint]: that's because when rockbox is in the background, it doesn't "own" the buttons anymore
08:45:33	Zagor	it is confusing, which is why the high-resolution volume will not be default
08:45:54	[Saint]	this all adds to the many reasons why I actually liked having the two individual volume controls.
08:46:03	Zagor	I can imagine the high-resolution volume is quite confusing in itself
08:46:17	Zagor	[Saint]: that was just a crazy solution
08:46:44	[Saint]	but I do like the fine volume control too, just not the non uniform behaviour with the widget/foreground/background and this nasty volume blast
08:47:15	[Saint]	Zagor: It may have been "crazy"...but it worked.
08:47:33	B4gder	in some definitions of "worked", yes
08:47:35	Zagor	for some definition of "worked", sure
08:47:39	[Saint]	It just wasn't easily understandable to a newcomer either.
08:47:54	[Saint]	wow, that was creepy ;)
08:48:15	Zagor	how is it a better concept than high-res volume?
08:48:33	[Saint]	it is at least uniform behaviour with the HW keys
08:48:39	[Saint]	which I believe is important.
08:49:07	Zagor	in that case you want high-res off
08:49:10	[Saint]	I also liked being able to use the Android Media volume to set the "max" volume in RaaA
08:49:23	[Saint]	I believe others did also
08:49:33	Zagor	max android = max rockbox today. unless there is a bug.
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08:49:48	Zagor	in fact, your system specifically makes that impossible
08:50:20	[Saint]	yes, and that's kinda crap IMO. I liked that RaaA max == "current Android Media Volume setting"
08:50:49	[Saint]	that way you could set a maximum volume with the OS volume control, and use RB's fine control for that range
08:50:51	Zagor	I know you did. everyone else was confused as heck by it though.
08:51:23	[Saint]	not quite everyone...but most developers apparently.
08:51:38	[Saint]	I see it as more robust.
08:52:17	[Saint]	And it had the major benefit of uniform bahaviour in the HW keys (yes, I actually do think this is very important)...and it worked.
08:52:55	[Saint]	I would like to make it user configurable if possible.
08:53:23	[Saint]	As I do know that some people like this current behaviour (minus the bugs), but I'd like to be able to turn it off.
08:53:53	Zagor	as I said, high-res volume will be an option for advanced users to enable
08:54:22	Zagor	precisely because most android users will expect normal android volume behaviour
08:54:28	[Saint]	"advanced users"? why not just have it as an option in the regular build?
08:54:41	[Saint]	just default to high res if it's "expected"
08:54:42	Zagor	ignore "advanced"
08:55:20	[Saint]	Ok, then ignore my questioning of it...but the rest still stands.
08:55:33	[Saint]	Why not have it configurable, but with the "sane" default.
08:55:42	[Saint]	+?
08:55:58	Zagor	isn't an option "configurable"? I mean a setting, in the sound menu.
08:56:31	[Saint]	yes...but I'm not sure where you're going with that.
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08:57:01	Zagor	first-time installs have high-res disabled. anyone who wants it can enable it in the sound settings menu. just like a zillion other features
08:57:07	[Saint]	That's exactly what I'm talking about, something like "Settings - Sound Settings - Volume Control - Fine/OS handles"
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09:00
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09:04:50	CIA-48	New commit by zagor (r29663): Only set volume on SYS_VOLUME_CHANGED the first time. Workaround for FS #12034.
09:05:15	Zagor	please try this and see if it fixes the "blast" problem
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09:09:18	CIA-48	r29663 build result: All green
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09:33:10	[Saint]	will do, when I get my hands on a current .apk, my build machine decided to spit the PSU
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09:34:41	Zagor	[Saint]: what is your resolution?
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09:48:10	[Saint]	Zagor: 240x320
09:48:22	[Saint]	Sorry I missed your ping, I was grabbing a bit to eat.
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12:19:11	JdGordon\|	:( apparently every single lcd driver needs touching for this patch
12:19:16	*	JdGordon\| so cant be bothered with this
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12:31:29	JdGordon\|	any reason to not put this macro in lcd.h? #define LCDADDR(x, y) (lcd_framebuffer + y * LCD_WIDTH + x)
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13:28:40	amiconn	JdGordon\|: Yes. There are LCDs which are addressed column first
13:30:26	Torne	the wiki thinks every single time i edit it is suspicious
13:32:16	amiconn	And for pixel packed formats it's also different. The macro isn't used there
13:37:28	silbo	Hye
13:37:49	silbo	I was just wondering if anyone knows any Asus employees
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13:44:28	[Saint]	silbo: that would be offtopic
13:45:21	silbo	[Saint]: sorry
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14:10:55	n1s	Torne: same for me, and i think most (all?) others
14:11:40	Torne	ah
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14:44:34	CIA-48	New commit by Buschel (r29664): Fix for replaygain: Ensure fallback to track gain in case of missing album gain.
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14:48:34	CIA-48	r29664 build result: All green
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15:08:09	[Saint]	Zagor: You appear to have knocked that nasty volume blast on the ehad.
15:08:12	[Saint]	congrats.
15:08:41	[Saint]	s/ehad/head/
15:09:08	Zagor	excellent! thank you for testing.
15:10:02	[Saint]	No worries...sorry it took so long, I didn't see the link until you poked me.
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17:30:00	kugel	Unhelpful: ping
17:31:58	[Saint]	Zagor: Perhaps this volume blast is a timing issue?
17:32:21	[Saint]	It's definitely a lot better now, but I just had it blast me again. :/
17:34:28	[Saint]	at least it's not "every time RaaA starts it's service" anymore though, I haven't been able to reproduce the volume blast in a consisten way anymore, so yeah...it's definitely better.
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18:16:04	[Saint]	blargh...Ubuntu's update server seems to be painfully slow at this time of day.
18:16:35	[Saint]	~20kbps spiking to ~90kbps occasionally...yay :/
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18:41:32	Unhelpful	kugel: yes? and isn't "ping" like "asking to ask"? ;P
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18:47:37	Unhelpful	if you see me here, and you mention my nick when you ask, i will see it next time i'm at my computer. if you just say "ping" then i have to ask what you want, and then it will be the next time after that until i can see and consider the question.
18:49:21	Torne	yeah. you need to just pretend you are conversing, and then we can have conversations asynchronously ;)
18:50:04		Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18:50:50	Unhelpful	and at the wrong time of week i probably only check in once or twice a day, so that's the difference between an answer today and an answer tomorrow or later.
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19:03:49		Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
19:05:30	kugelp	Unhelpful: i looked at buflib a bit (in preparation of gsoc)
19:06:42	kugelp	I didn't fully understand it yet, but it looks to me like the handle table isn't updated on compacting
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20:30:42	Unhelpful	kugelp: orly? there has been a very sporadic crash bug i can never track down, so if you have ideas about that... ;)
20:33:20		Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
20:35:17	kugelp	Unhelpful: I don't know about crashes, I just looked at the code
20:35:54	Unhelpful	kugelp: i'll try to have a good look @ the compaction tonight. what are you looking to use buflib for in gsoc?
20:36:31	kugelp	there's a proposal to use buflib in the core
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20:37:59	viktor89	hi2all
20:38:38	viktor89	can i ask some questions about rockbox on sansa clip plus?
20:38:51	[Saint]	Go for it.
20:39:03	[Saint]	No one can help you unless you do ;)
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20:40:43	Unhelpful	kugelp: for what, the audio buffer? that will be hard, buflib is a handle API and requires that addresses be refetched after any operation that might compact - for "the" buffer this would mean any time the current thread has made a new allocation or yielded.
20:42:26	viktor89	how i can off auto-resume from last position function? i off it in menu but no effect
20:43:32	viktor89	i want track to play from start
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20:43:52	[Saint]	what is your understanding of how it "should" work? Do you mean that it is skipping to the next track (which has a resume point) and it's beginning from that resume point?
20:46:03	Unhelpful	a thought just occurred to me regarding that, though... previous ideas for this have revolved around callback registration etc (a "fix my pointers") value attached to each object). what about a "revision" for the buffer that updates when compaction has moved any handles? this would then become a single value at a fixed location to check before using stored pointers. it would probably have simpler code than a callback system, otoh might not
20:46:03	Unhelpful	be as fast. or as Torne has suggested, just use malloc and see if that's really as bad as we think.
20:47:39	viktor89	can it ignore resume point and play track from beginning?
20:50:45	[Saint]	if automatic resume is turned of, then it shouldn't resume from a resume point.
20:50:51	[Saint]	if it is, then there is a bug.
20:50:58	[Saint]	*off
20:51:56	pixelma	huh?
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20:52:06	viktor89	but it resume. can anybody try to repeat this bug?
20:53:04	[Saint]	Are you talking about actually manually selecting a file, and it doesn't start from the beginning? Or just pressing play and resuming a stopped playlist?
20:53:12	pixelma	viktor89: do you want to still play the old playlist but with the last track you listened to from the start or just want to create a completely new playlist?
20:53:14	[Saint]	the latter is expected, the former not.
20:53:34	Unhelpful	expectations vary from person to person ;)
20:54:14	[Saint]	Ahem..."expected behaviour for the software...possibly not the user" ;)
20:54:54	viktor89	i resuming a stopped playlist
20:55:21	viktor89	it should be?
20:55:33	[Saint]	yes.
20:56:19	[Saint]	the only way for it not to is either for the playlist to end, or to load a new playlist.
20:58:10	viktor89	ok, i anderstand. can i play all music files in all folders without creating a playlist?
20:58:36	viktor89	with random on
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21:00
21:00:00	[Saint]	Rockbox will always create a playlist, every time there is audio playback it's playing from a playlist.
21:00:16	[Saint]	But you don't have to manually create one each time.
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21:02:26	viktor89	thanks for the help from a Russian user of rockbox, it's pleasant to communicate with a responsive community
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21:04:41	mcanes__	hi, i have a sansa e200r mp3 with 1/3 of the top screen with white lines, can i change the screen visualizacion of the menu to show all of it using only the 2/3 parts of the screen?
21:08:25	pixelma	you could by using a self made SBS I guess
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21:21:10	kugelp	Unhelpful: not for the audio buffer, but to allocate the audio buffer itself and other big buffers (e.g. font cache)
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21:21:13	kugelp	Unhelpful: don't you like the callback idea?
21:21:58		Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection)
21:22:09	Unhelpful	kugelp: i am conerned that it could be very slow when a compaction actually happens, and also would require rather a lot of code all over the place (every codec, etc)
21:23:16	kugelp	a compection would happen very rarely, speed shouldn't be an issue. also the speed depends on the actual callback, no?
21:25:02	kugelp	why in every codec?
21:28:11	Unhelpful	kugelp: anything that stores a pointer from a handle that was at some point from buflib?
21:28:48	Unhelpful	ie, if a compaction moves the audio buffer, all codecs will need to be told their pointers into buffer data must be shifted by X
21:29:31	gevaerts	hm
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21:30:44	gevaerts	Unhelpful: does currently active audio data really have to move? I'd imagine it should be possible (although maybe not easily) to do something where as long as the requested new buffer isn't too big, only non-current audio data moves
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21:32:28	Unhelpful	gevaerts: buflib doesn't really know about anything except "move buffer contents, update handle pointers" - if playback wants to do some kind of magic when the audio buffer moves, i guess that might be possible in the callback for the audio buffer?
21:32:37	kugelp	Unhelpful: I think for the audio buffer we thought about stopping playback if it moves or is resized
21:32:53	gevaerts	Unhelpful: if it's for gsoc, "some work" is acceptable :)
21:33:07	gevaerts	Nobody expects buflib to be 100% suitable from the start
21:34:41	Ayla	hello
21:34:54	Ayla	how hard would it be to port RockBox to a new target?
21:36:13	AlexP	depends
21:36:19	AlexP	From quite to very
21:36:29	gevaerts	I'm imagining a scheme where memory has three parts, the top allocated space, the audio buffer, and the bottom allocated space. if something gets released (from either top or bottom), audio continues playing, and the recently freed side is compacted (which only involves non-audio). If something wants a new block, it gets allocated in either top or bottom, depending on which of them is farthest from currently playing audio
21:36:35	gevaerts	hm
21:36:43	gevaerts	Ayla: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort has some information
21:36:54	AlexP	Ayla: Depends on whether the hardware is already in use in an existing port, or if you have data sheets for the components, or if everyhting will be reverse engineering
21:36:56	Ayla	thanks
21:36:59	gevaerts	That scheme of mine won't work if the current audio pointer is near wrapping...
21:37:39	gevaerts	I think that should be solvable though
21:38:13	Ayla	that would be a port to the dingoo a320, which has already linux drivers for most of the hardware, that should be better than data sheets
21:38:25		Join denisesball [0] (~jesse@host-196.204-251-207.localnet.com)
21:39:00	denisesball	hey all, i just installed 3.8 and trying to initialize the database it hangs on the same number every time. the sansa firmware doesnt have any issues
21:39:14	AlexP	There is a bit of a bug in 3.8
21:39:20	AlexP	Could you try a current build?
21:39:34	Ayla	I'm thinking about applying for a rockbox project, but I have no hardware that can run rockbox, hence the port
21:39:40	AlexP	denisesball: Rockbox Utility will install it
21:39:48	gevaerts	Ayla: I'd say decent datasheets are better than a linux driver
21:39:49	denisesball	AlexP: sure
21:40:04	AlexP	Ayla: We are quite wary of ports for GSoC as they are quite risky
21:40:17	AlexP	Ayla: It isn't ruled out, but you would have to persuade us :)
21:40:35	Ayla	gevaerts: we have datasheets too, they are on Ingenic's FTP server
21:40:47	Ayla	but those docs are not really useful, they are only a few page long
21:40:48	denisesball	AlexP: shouldnt that be listed in the release notes then?
21:40:58	AlexP	denisesball: It wasn't known then
21:40:58	denisesball	i prob wouldnt have upgraded had i known
21:41:06	AlexP	At it doesn't hit everyone
21:41:21	Ayla	AlexP, why "risky"?
21:41:38	AlexP	Ayla: As it is very hard, and you may well hit unforseen obstacles
21:41:51	Ayla	I don't want to propose a port as a GSoC project
21:41:52	AlexP	Ayla: i.e. get stuck on a particular bit of hardware
21:41:58	AlexP	ah, right
21:42:02	AlexP	I misunderstood then
21:42:07	Ayla	I just don't have any hardware that can run rockbox
21:42:07	Unhelpful	Ayla: a linux driver is part of an O/S framework that rockbox doesn't use - we don't have a linux kernel, so a linux driver is really at best a document of what a driver should do, in a rather bad language for documenting that.
21:42:37	Ayla	I'd love to work on the project that plans to optimize the codecs for the MIPS hardware
21:43:36	denisesball	brb
21:43:38		Quit denisesball (Quit: Ex-Chat)
21:44:13	Ayla	Unhelpful: I know rockbox is not linux, but at least a linux driver does show how to use the hardware. Regarding the jz4740, I'd say the drivers provide more documentation than the data sheets that can be found on the web
21:44:18	Ayla	that was my point
21:44:20	gevaerts	Ayla: right. So you're basically asking if a port is doable before gsoc?
21:44:48	Ayla	I'm just asking how hard it would be :)
21:44:58	gevaerts	Well yes :)
21:45:47	Ayla	or maybe there is a way to run rockbox on a computer?
21:45:52		Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
21:46:10	gevaerts	There is, but that won't help you for MIPS optimisation
21:46:20	Ayla	of couse.
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21:47:01	Ayla	well the dingoo is MIPS, that's why I was asking
21:47:30	Unhelpful	a cycle-accurate emulator might, but then you need a benchmark harness that runs in your emulator environment.
21:48:00	Ayla	I believe it's always better to test on real hardware
21:48:11		Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
21:48:38	gevaerts	Ayla: rockbox does run on some players that use the jz4740 as well
21:49:30	Ayla	yes
21:49:58	gevaerts	If you can get your hands on an onda vx747, that would be ideal for this project
21:50:44	gevaerts	I'd bet this dingoo will be similar. Most of those cheaper systems are based on reference designs
21:52:32	Ayla	good idea
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21:54:38	denisesball	AlexP: well i was gonna try to upgrade to the latest build but for some reason im only seeing an unpartitioned drive when i plug it in since upgrading to 2.8
22:00
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22:01:40	gevaerts	denisesball: can you still boot to the OF?
22:03:02	denisesball	gevaerts: the sansa boots both stock and rockbox firmware fine
22:03:23	denisesball	just for some reason im only seeing my microsd card partition and not the sansa itself
22:04:31	gevaerts	hm, maybe I missed that earlier, but which sansa is it exactly?
22:04:51	Ayla	if the wiki is up-to-date, the Onda port lacks a FTL driver. We got it working on linux (we now have readonly access to the NAND content), maybe it could be used to enhance the Onda port
22:05:01	denisesball	its the clip+
22:05:22	denisesball	http://pastebin.com/3Z73edKw
22:05:33	denisesball	sdc is the sansa sdd is my microsd in the sansa
22:06:34	gevaerts	denisesball: I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think the clip+ has a partition table on its internal flash. Can you mount /dev/sdc directly (i.e. without specifying a partition)?
22:07:19	denisesball	gevaerts: hm, that seemed to work. never had to manually mount it before
22:10:04	denisesball	gevaerts: http://pastebin.com/PhGDnSW1
22:10:14	denisesball	so its mounted but rockboxutil isnt liking that mountpoint
22:10:27	denisesball	oh wait
22:10:45	denisesball	nvm i think its ok, i was hitting autodetect thinking it would just detect the model not the mountpoint
22:12:35	gevaerts	Ayla: if linux on the dingoo is more or less stable, I suspect you should be able to get Rockbox as an Application to run on it fairly quickly (although maybe not optimally at first), which I think (but I'm no expert) would probably be good enough for codec work (and tuning the port in the evenings :)
22:13:15	Ayla	oh, it can run as an application? That's nice
22:14:14	gevaerts	It can, yes. We have it running fairly well on Android and Maemo, and work is ongoing on some other devices. All ARM for now though
22:14:44	gevaerts	I think the ARM bit only matters for the threading code though, and we also have generic pure C threading code
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22:15:42	linuxstb	gevaerts: There's the generic SDL version of RaaA, which at least runs on x86 (I've no idea about other arches, but I'm guessing it will)
22:16:06	gevaerts	yes
22:16:25	gevaerts	It should work on any architecture where the sim runs
22:16:40	linuxstb	And yes, if you can run that on a MIPs target, I don't see why it couldn't be used for codec optimisation.
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22:21:32	linuxstb	Ayla: What experience do you have with audio codecs and assembler progtramming?
22:23:42		Part denisesball ("Ex-Chat")
22:24:50	Ayla	with audio codecs.... not much. I had signal processing courses at school, unfortunately I wasn't very good at this (it started very fast and I never did electronic courses before). But I believe I know the bases: FFT, Huffman encoding...
22:25:56	Ayla	I had courses about ARM assembly, and I was quite good at it
22:26:48	linuxstb	Do you know MIPs?
22:29:53	Ayla	not as much as I know ARM. I wrote some C code that was designed to be super-fast on MIPS, thanks to the high number of registers (compared to ARM), but I never went into assembly. But this I'd be pleased to learn.
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22:36:56	Ayla	I also already worked with jz4740's MXU instruction set
22:37:05	Ayla	(inlined inside C code)
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22:47:08	bertrik	Anyone here with a clipv2 that has problems with background noise?
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22:53:29	petur	Downloaded the latest build on a clip+ and it crashes at startup with a div by zero. The daily build boots fine. Known problem?
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23:26:15	stripwax	JdGordon : - a 'newbie' android port question. Does jdgordon.info/rockbox/rockbox.apk">http://jdgordon.info/rockbox/rockbox.apk incorporate support for 480x800 devices?
23:27:38		Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
23:28:45	stripwax	(second newbie question: if so, then it seems to not work correctly on my phone - shows up as probably 240x320 in the top left of the screen)
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23:46:20	CIA-48	New commit by Buschel (r29665): Changing convert_gain() also implicitly changed get_replaygain_int() which could lead to div by zero. This patch finds another way to fix the ...
23:47:33	*	petur will try out :)
23:47:33	Buschel	good :)
23:47:37	Buschel	nasty thing
23:48:26	*	Buschel is still not happy with the implementation
23:49:43		Quit mudd1 (Quit: Ex-Chat)
23:49:54	Buschel	it does not differentiate "0 dB gain" from "no gain known"
23:50:37	Buschel	maybe I'll find some time in the next week
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