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#rockbox log for 2011-04-07

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00:10:27leavittxHi everybody! What can be used as c preprocessor flags in tools/configure (CPPFLAGS) ?
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00:48:39jhMikeSBuschel: (more for logs) It looks like shuffling the playing playlist just ends up wrong for resume, no matter what way it's being done :\
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01:12:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:24:44 Join neozen [0] (~rheflin@
01:26:20neozengreetings all, having trouble building 3.8.1 for android, get the following error: make: *** No rule to make target `/home/rheflin/src/rockbox-3.8.1/build/thread-android-arm.c', needed by `/home/rheflin/src/rockbox-3.8.1/build/firmware/thread.o'. Stop.
01:26:24neozenany ideas why?
01:26:45[Saint]have you run configure? (silly question, have to ask)
01:26:53*neozen nods
01:27:44neozenfed in: 201 \n 480 \n 800 then ran make
01:28:51[Saint]assuming the s?nDK are installed, and a JDK present, bothing with orrect path should "just work"
01:28:58*neozen nods
01:29:14neozenit does build on trunk... but not in the 3.8.1 tag
01:29:33[Saint]Oh? That's curious.
01:30:16neozen1 sec, I'll look up the date I built for android off trunk
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01:32:32neozenwell the older build off my android phone has version r29659M-110329 if that helps
01:34:10neozensdk and ndk are indeed installed, ANDROID_SDK_PATH and ANDROID_NDK_PATH are set appropriately as well
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01:36:20neozenFYI, 3.8 tag didn't build for android either when I tried it 9 or so days ago, same make error
01:37:47neozenI'm happy to provide more info if its needed
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01:51:15neozenhere's a pastebin of the session:
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01:54:13neozen[Saint]: should I bother filing a bug/feature request? I note that Android is listed under the heading 'Unusable ports' on
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02:02:47 Join GuySoft [0] (
02:03:06GuySofthey people, any gpodder users here? because i wrote a cool script for you!
02:03:39GuySoft This script converts any mp4 videos to play on a Sansa Fuze with rockbox installed, should be adaptable for a wider range of devices
02:10:39neozenGuySoft: had never heard of gpodder, cool stuff
02:10:53GuySoftneozen, did you see its homepage?
02:11:37*neozen nods
02:11:40GuySoftneozen, its cool, gpodder now automatically converts and syncs TED lectures to my sansa fuze
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03:12:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:57:06flybackthe new revision of the sansa fuze, with the lame looking touch job thing
04:57:11flybackstill compatible?
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05:07:34*[Saint] assumes flyback neans the Sansa Fuze+
05:07:58[Saint]in which case, the answer is no. Supported devices as always are listed on the main page.
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05:12:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:14:27flybackebay and older revision it is then
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05:25:30flybackany insteresting features the plus has over the origional
05:26:22flybackmight be worth waiting for
05:27:06JdGordon|flyback: I know for a fact you've been asked plenty of times to keep to the channel topic which is - funnily enough - rockbox... your qeustions arent related at all...
05:27:07[Saint]Depends if you consider waiting a long to indefinite period worthwhile.
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05:28:53flybackI haven't been here in ages and I don't remeber jack shit anymore
05:29:12flybackdeveloped severe memory problems
05:29:15flybackso quit barking
05:29:35[Saint]your memory doesn't make the topic irrelevant
05:29:39[Saint]it hasn't changed.
05:30:05flybackyeah it hasn't
05:30:21flybackone channel will say shit belongs in one channel and then the other channel will lie and say it belongs here
05:30:29flybackpeople should be hunted down and shot for fucking with people
05:30:43[Saint]and you should stop it, or leave.
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05:47:48rigolettoi guess this idea is not new and maybe it is too much effort because of different aspects −−- i'd like to hear music while listening to an audiobook - if rockbox had a menu to start/stop different audiostreams and mix them - is that an approach to go for or what are the main reasons not to implement such a feature :-)
05:48:42rigolettoof course you want to have the music mixed with less volume -
05:49:09rigolettoscale it down decibel-wise... hmm...
05:49:10JdGordon|most targets dont have the proccessing power to keep 2 tracks going in real time, even if rockbox's audio engine could handle it
05:49:23rigolettoi see
05:49:43JdGordon|actually, that may not be completly true, but yes, our playback engine cant handle that
05:50:49rigolettocan or cant?
05:51:04JdGordon|it cant currently
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06:26:21bug2000My sansa clip v1 seems to crash with "Prefetch abort at EA000006 FSR 0xFF (domain 15, fault 15)" from time to time. Any ideas?
06:26:49bug2000^ Or some other errors I didn't read all the errors codes.
06:27:01JdGordon|not unless you have a reliable repro
06:27:20bug2000JdGordon|: I don't even know how to reproduce it.
06:27:53JdGordon|not much we can do.... that EA00006 looks like an instruction so not enough info to figure out what caused it
06:28:25JdGordon|a data abort is far more helpful, at least we get an address from it
06:29:22bug2000JdGordon|: Let me try something.
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07:12:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:27:56bertriksideral, ping
08:31:34sideralHi bertrik!
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08:32:31bertriksideral, have you noticed any recent changes in the background noise for clipv2?
08:33:15bertrikthe AMSv2 sd driver was toggling a GPIO that the clipv2 uses for the button light (unnecessarily)
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08:34:50sideralNo, I haven't. I have meant to check your latest SD patches with my highly sensitive headphones, but haven't managed to do it yet
08:35:28sideralI needed to rebase the rewind-on-pause patch first before I could upgrade, but that's done now :)
08:36:49sideralI also have high hopes for the Clip+ SD-card access noise with your change that avoids SD high-speed mode
08:38:58sideralBTW, thanks bertrik for caring so much about the SD issues!
08:39:07bertrikon second thought, the high-speed mode fix probably only applies for external uSD, not for the internal sd
08:39:41sideralyeah, I'm aware of that, but I now also have a Clip+ with all my podcasts living on an external SD card
08:41:38sideralbertrik: BTW, apparently AMSv2 can do headphone detection. Is there a reason why it's not enabled (besides no one having invested the development effort)?
08:42:09bertriksideral, AFAIR we can only detect one event, either plug-in or plug-out
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08:43:14sideralwe = AMSv2?
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08:44:12bertrikwe = both AMSv1 and AMSv2 chips
08:44:42bertrikat least that is how I interpret the datasheet
08:44:57sideralthe AS3543 datasheet says you can read the headphone status from the IRQENRD_3 register
08:45:34bertrikas3525 says: "With a control bit the headphone detection can be enabled. The detection is only working as long as the headphone stage is in power down mode
08:45:35bertrikand the load is applied between HPR / HPL and HPCM. The headphone detection can also trigger a corresponding interrupt."
08:46:17bertrikSo I interpret that as we can only detect plug-in, not plug-out
08:46:22sideralah right
08:47:20sideraltoo bad. thanks bertrik!
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09:12:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:50:34CIA-87New commit by nls (r29688): Fix FS #12003 ' −−deprecate is broken'
09:53:43n1shmm, should have cleaned out deprecated strings after last release, is it too late now?
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09:54:19n1sthere's only two of them so i guess i'll wait for the next release
09:54:45CIA-87r29688 build result: All green
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10:24:05wodz|workpamury: ping
10:26:29wodz|workI managed to transfer data from rockchip player by means of control transfer but I have strange problem. If I use 64bytes length of transaction everything works. But If I use bigger length the first transfer is correct and all subseqent are truncated to 64bytes
10:27:01wodz|workI would expect that either all works or all fail
10:27:50pamaurycontrol transfers are limited to 64 bytes
10:28:44*gevaerts can't remember :\
10:28:45pamaurythat's the maximum limit
10:29:02pamauryon LS it's 8, on FS it's 8/16/32/64 and on HS it's 64 iirc
10:29:13pamauryhum, no I swapped HS and FS
10:29:45pamaurywodz|work: but that's great if you managed to make it work :)
10:29:47gevaertsPacket size, sure
10:29:55wodz|workthey are limited to 64bytes yes but If wLength is more than 64bytes the transfer should be chopped into 64bytes chunks (at least that's how I understand this)
10:30:03gevaertsBut max packet size != max transfer size
10:30:19pamauryyes, but depending on the controller, this might be the same
10:30:29wodz|workand if so why first transfer works
10:31:00gevaertspamaury: confiuration descriptors or string descriptors are quite often more than 64 bytes
10:31:07pamaurytrue, you're right
10:31:30pamaurywodz|work: are you sure you configured everything correctly ?
10:33:13wodz|workpamaury: of course not :-)
10:33:24pamauryI'll have a look at the datasheet, see if I can find something which might explain that
10:34:56wodz|workpamaury: this is not that important - I was able to transmit 100kB with 64bytes transfers correctly so this is not a big deal. I was just curious
10:36:20pamauryperhaps it has something to do with marked packets as short packets
10:37:20gevaertshm, could be
10:39:14wodz|workI don't get
10:41:12pamaurywell, it's doesn't really matter, as long as you made it work. When you'll write a full blown drive
10:41:20pamaurythen, it will matter
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11:09:47wodz|workam I correct that spare region on the flash is just additional space associated with each page?
11:11:07n1sJdGordon|: any idea why my gui_synclist doesn't voice the entry that is selected on entry but only after moving the selector, other lists voice the first entry
11:12:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:13:36n1snvm, found it
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12:08:10wodz|workIs there any standarization how flash chip introduce itself (ReadID 0x90 0x00 response) so one can figure out the organization and size of the chip?
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12:12:16Ayla0x90 should be the manufacturer ID, 0x0 should be the product ID
12:12:29Aylafrom those two numbers, linux recognizes the brand and the size of the chip
12:13:11Aylaso I believe you should be able to find that somewhere on the web
12:14:31gevaertsAyla: this is a flash chip, not a USB device
12:14:47Aylayes, I know
12:15:28Aylathat's the same for flash chips AFAIK, we used that when doing the driver for the NAND inside the dingoo a320
12:15:30*gevaerts goes back to sleep
12:16:10wodz|workyes I am just looking for this list :-)
12:16:40wodz|workAnd I can't find one
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12:25:53Aylalooks like 0x90 is just the command code for ReadID
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12:29:26wodz|workyes it is ReadID is 0x90 0x00
12:29:38Aylawodz|work: if you have some linux sources lying somewhere, take a look at drivers/mtd/nand/nand_ids.c
12:29:54wodz|workok thx
12:32:18Aylaif you can retrieve the manufacturer and product codes, you should be able to grab information about the chip
12:32:21wodz|workwow, thats it
12:32:58wodz|workhow weird the ReadID doesn't respond uniformly with basic data
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13:40:37wodz|workZagor: any plans to workaround ff4 problems with irc logs live upddate?
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14:20:23SimpuI wanted to work on " The grneral ARM optimization " project for GSOC 2011, can somebody help me for the beginning?
14:23:09SimpuIs somebody present over here or all are away?
14:23:49wodz|workwhat do you mean by general optimization ?
14:25:03wodz|worknevermind, I overlooked the idea on GSoC page
14:25:25SimpuWhat do you mean by overlooked?
14:25:38SimpuSorry I didnt get it
14:26:06wodz|workI thought we proposed only codec optimizations but apparently there is idea called general ARM optimization
14:26:33SimpuWell , then just suggest me
14:26:46wodz|workI am not ARM guru
14:26:58SimpuWhich are the projects that you give priority among the proposed ones/
14:27:35gevaertsThe ones where we think the student is likely to do a good job
14:28:10SimpuThen , how about the ARM optimization ?
14:28:39SimpuWould it be sufficient as a GSOC project?
14:28:39wodz|workpersonaly I would love to see someone working on extending video support in rockbox
14:29:03SimpuWell , thats a good one too
14:29:52SimpuBut I think , I will have to do a lot for that
14:30:05Torneyou will have to do a lot for all of them, pretty much by definition
14:30:18Tornethat's the intention of gsoc :)
14:30:47wodz|workas of arm optimizations for newer cores - saratoga did some work in this are so maybe he is the right person to ask
14:31:05TorneI can maybe help
14:31:18TorneWhat did you actualyl want to know?
14:31:33SimpuYeah , by lot , I mean I am poor at that
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14:32:45SimpuActually , I wanted to know your project preferences coz once you are alooted slots , you are the guys who are gonna decide the final projects to be taken upon
14:32:58TorneNo, we will decide which *students* we want to take
14:33:15Tornewe proposed all the projects because we want them all doing :)
14:34:06TorneWe want you to pick the project you think you can do well, and that you find interesting
14:34:17Torneif your proposal is convincing enough we will pick you :)
14:34:58wodz|workanyway coding is for fun isn't it?
14:35:20[Saint]that's how it starts...then you get addicted.
14:35:47SimpuAnd Some like me want to get addicted
14:35:56SimpuNothing else to do
14:36:27SimpuWell lets talk to the point , I was thinking as suggested to work upon including MPEG4 SP decoder
14:37:45SimpuSo , As I have probably a day left to make my proposal , would you suggest me how to go?
14:38:34SimpuI have already done some basics regarding buliding rockbox for some targets etc go further
14:40:38SimpuWhat nobodys interested or nobody knows about this?
14:41:00gevaertsSimpu: the I in IRC does *not* stand for "instant"
14:41:10Torneit's not clear what you're actually asking
14:43:19SimpuOh , I was asking about making my proposal , should I propose some available library for using to decode MPEG4 , and then some of its implementation details
14:43:54Simpuor I have to go through each and every step in detail in the proposal itself?
14:44:31gevaertsYou mean is "I'll use library X" detailed enough as a proposal?
14:46:03SimpuNo I mean , then what points should be emphasised upon ?
14:46:34SimpuLike do we have to discuss about usage of Fixed arithmetic ....., Etc
14:46:48SimpuCoz , its quite obvious
14:48:44Aylado we have to necessarily apply for a given project? I could apply for different ones
14:49:06gevaertsAyla: you mean "for a listed idea"?
14:49:57gevaertsIf so, no, you're free to suggest your own project, but then it's wise to first briefly discuss it here to avoid spending a lot of time for something we don't want
14:50:31AylaI meant, can I apply for more than one listed idea?
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14:51:09Aylaand would that increase my chances? :)
14:51:50AylaI've done fixed-point arithmetic before, I could work on that too
14:52:08wodz|workyes you can apply for more than one project
14:52:11mtSimpu: It's quite obvious for you that you will use fixed point arithmetic or some available library. That does not hold for all people though. Not every rockbox dev is involved with codecs, and they don't have to be so to read a clear project breakdown.
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14:52:51Torneyou can apply for more than one project but since the deadline is tomorrow then it seems like your time might be better spent writing a really good proposal for one :)
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14:53:40mtImho, The emphasis should be on clear, feasible time-plan that shows you have what it takes to complete the project.
14:53:43Simpumt : Yeah , I get it , thanks
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14:56:12mtSimpu: Also, if you have any summer commitments, you would be better off including them in your proposal so that there would be no surprises. ;)
14:56:17AylaTorne: I hope you won't have too much good proposals then ;)
14:56:34mtThat's mean !
14:57:27Ayla(That's a joke)
14:57:41mt(mine too)
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14:59:34Elfishis it possible to shutdown the entire display and not just backlight while listening to music?
15:00:09wodz|workElfish: we do that on some targets
15:00:23Zagorwodz|work: it's not at the top of my list. if someone figures out what they changed/broke and if there's a simple workaround, I'll be happy to implement it. I'm not very keen on reverse-engineering ff4 though
15:01:08TorneElfish: there is a separate setting for that on targets where we have the required support for it
15:01:13Tornewhat device do you have?
15:01:19SimpuCan you point me to some updated documentation of the source , I didnt get it
15:01:21SimpuWell ,then I am not gonna talk about rockbox source code in my proposal . I am just gonna put my complete idea of implementing this decoder....
15:01:51wodz|workSimpu: we basicaly don't have source documentation other than comments in the code
15:02:12TorneThere's a few discussions of specific subsystems on the wiki but those may not be up to date and don't cover most of the code.
15:02:34Simpuyeah , thats the problem
15:02:37TorneElfish: the setting is "Sleep (After Backlight Off)", in the same menu as the backlight timeout
15:02:53TorneSimpu: Well, if that's a problem for you to write your proposal then this is also going to be a problem to actually do the project, no?
15:03:35Tornenot that i want to put you off, but the thing to do there would've been to start getting familiar with the code in the several weeks prior to now, when you had more than one day left :)
15:04:16wodz|workZagor: where can I find the code of this live updating logs thing?
15:04:31TorneElfish: if it's not there then nobody has implemented powering off the LCD on your device
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15:05:22Aylawhy don't you use something like Doxygen?
15:05:30TorneHm. In fact the only targets that have it are the ipods, and the MPIO HD200
15:05:33CIA-87New commit by zagor (r29689):
15:05:34ElfishTorne ipod classic 6g 120gb
15:05:45SimpuWell , I am not saying that .... Could you just tell me the entire module coontaining source for a decoder lets say an MP3 decoder .
15:05:48wodz|workTorne: at least on HD200 powering down LCD gives no measurable power consumption difference so I skiped this
15:06:00Tornewodz|work: hrm? HAVE_LCD_SHUTDOWN is defined
15:06:09wodz|workTorne: but not used
15:06:31SimpuI will get the idea of codec source code organisation from that
15:06:53TorneOur playback system doesn't support video
15:06:58Torneso there's no point looking at the normal audio codecs
15:07:08TorneCurrently video playback is done in a plugin
15:07:48Tornewodz|work: er, yes it is
15:07:57Tornethe define is there, so it gets used..
15:08:43TorneOh, that's not the define for that
15:08:49Tornethat's the define for lcd_shutdown() at poweroff
15:09:15TorneElfish: then no, this isn't implemented on 6g
15:09:25Elfishah too bad
15:09:49Torneit's marked as todo which suggests someone thinks it's possible
15:09:58Tornebut it's not done (and they may have been mistaken)
15:11:08SimpuOK ,, I got there I have to add the MPEG4 player module in the plugins section
15:11:35Torneeither adding it to the existing plugin or creating a new plugin, yes
15:11:41Tornewould be the easiest way.
15:12:18Tornebut as the idae notes, it might also be good to refactor the way we do video so that it's more modular
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15:13:13Tornedoing it just by copying a lto of code from mpegplayer.rock is kinda yucky and would not make for as nice a proposal ;)
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15:13:38gevaertsI'd say that a video playback proposal needs to include integration in the playback system
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15:18:22SimpuOh , I get the idea
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15:29:20AlexPAyla: r.e. doxygen, see and associated thread
15:29:29AlexPAyla: Basically nobody has bothered :)
15:30:16TorneWell, that was only about documenting the plugin/codec API, also
15:30:29Tornenot the internal interfaces in the core.
15:30:44Ayladocumentation is always a good idea
15:30:46AlexPbut I think the same thing holds true
15:31:01AlexPAyla: Nobody denies that, but nobody wants to do it either
15:31:20Aylathen propose it for a GSoC :p
15:31:37B4gderthe students propose projects
15:31:44B4gderwe just list ideas
15:32:21B4gderI'm not sure tagging the source for doxygen is a suitable gsoc project
15:33:31AlexPWe could break it down into sections and use it as qualification tasks :)
15:33:51SimpuWhy isn't then video supported in the Rockbox core rather than as a plugin ?
15:34:11B4gderSimpu: why would it ?
15:35:03SimpuI suppose , video playing capabilities should not be made optional for players supporting ittt
15:35:43B4gderwhy not? and have you ever disabled a plugin in your rockbox installs?
15:35:51AlexPFunctionality both in the core and in plugins is only included if the hardware allows it
15:35:52Aylait wouldn't take three months
15:36:39SimpuBut one can , I suppose , plugins are something optional
15:36:52AlexPSo are various things that are in the core
15:38:31SimpuWell , I don't know much about this right now , so I wont comment
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15:38:49B4gderSimpu: plugins are also wonderfully not occupying valuable space when not used
15:39:47SimpuBut they take more time to get initialised
15:40:20B4gderyou mean due to the loading of them?
15:40:39B4gderbut yes, that's true
15:40:55B4gderfor video I don't see how that can be much of an issue though
15:41:05B4gderas you're about to read a lot of data from storage anyway
15:41:07TorneAyla: it would probably take a lot more than three months :)
15:41:50gevaertsAlexP: documentation is explicitely not suitable for gsoc
15:41:52SimpuWell , it matters in cases where we have got good space in the RAM
15:42:05AlexPgevaerts: I didn't suggest it was
15:42:17Tornethere's never any space in ram, really
15:42:20AylaI believe it would, for a student, because it'd require a full understanding of the inner workings
15:42:22Torneit's almost always useful for buffering
15:42:32gevaertsAlexP: sorry, tab error :)
15:42:45AlexPYou're forgiven :)
15:42:50B4gderSimpu: no, it wouldn't change the ram situation at all
15:42:51ZagorSimpu: we never want to waste ram to gain a few milliseconds load time
15:42:58gevaertsAyla: Google asks to do *coding* projects
15:43:03SimpuYeah , It is mentioned on the GSOC website ....You cannot take bug removal , or documentation as your project
15:43:27Zagorand since we don't want all codecs in ram, why have any?
15:43:31Zagor*in core
15:43:58Aylagevaerts: ok :)
15:44:01Tornethe core is not "the things that all players need", it's "the things that *this* player needs *all the time*"
15:44:23Tornevideo playback is not something you need all the time
15:44:50Aylastill, you could say "from now on use comments for each of your functions in Doxygen style"
15:45:10TorneAyla: Doing this in general is probably bad, though
15:45:23TorneThe problem here is that our API is not actually stable
15:45:27Tornenor particularly meant to be
15:45:46Tornelike the Linux kernel we reserve the right to change anything whenever we feel like it for our convenience, and anything that's not in our tree will get broken.
15:46:01TorneTaking lots of care to document everything goes counter to that to some degree ;)
15:46:14Aylaso the documentation would become obsolete very fast then
15:46:30Tornedocumenting the plugin API is more interesting than documenting everything else, but even the plugin API is not actually a specific set of functions for that purpose
15:46:39Torneit's just a selection of functions from the core which have been exposed to plugins.
15:46:45ZagorI think general concept documentation such as diagrams and schematics are much more valuable than "this function takes a void*"
15:46:52Torneand they also change when it's convenient for us to do so ;)
15:47:09AylaZagor, indeed
15:47:17Aylait would really help GSoC students
15:47:26SimpuYeah , I suppose video is better as a plugin
15:47:26AlexPNot only them
15:47:28Aylaand every other dev, I believe
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15:47:48TorneZagor: True, but that's also the kind of docs which don't fit in the source
15:47:55Torneand thus are much more likely to be ignored when the code changes
15:48:01Torneso while they go out of date more slowly
15:48:05Tornethey are more likely to not get fixed :)
15:48:24Zagorperhaps, but they are probably also less tedious to fix
15:48:41Tornewell the available evidence in the wiki is that people aren't fixing them :)
15:48:50Tornethere's a number of things described in more or less that way there which are grossly outdated
15:49:01AlexPThe wiki really could do with a massive clean up
15:49:05ZagorI think we should use dot graphs much more in the wiki, for example
15:49:17ZagorAlexP: yes please! ;-)
15:49:22AlexPWe have multiple pages describing each thing, all of which are wrong in different ways :)
15:49:45Zagoryeah, there's no structure
15:49:55AlexPZagor: Hereon we experience the same problem; I think I'll make a start, then look at it and give up :)
15:49:55Tornesome templates for "this is outdated and probably wrong" might be a good start :)
15:49:57Zagorand after that, the patch tracker :)
15:50:34AlexPAnd yeah, some sort of structure would be nice
15:51:27AlexPWe could almost do with coming up with a structure, and then slowly copying pages over while checking them and then when enough has been copied, close the "old" wiki
15:51:38AlexPTrouble is is that this is rather a lot of work
15:52:04AlexPBut I at least get a little overwhelmed trying to think about tidying the current one
15:52:36Zagorlet's just wipe it and start over. surely we'll remember the important stuff.
15:53:03AlexPI'm almost ready to seriosuly agree with that :)
15:54:07pamaurywhich part *really* need an up to date documentation and don't have one ?
15:54:44ZagorI think above we lack high-level documentation. how does the system work?
15:54:49Zagor*above all
15:55:27Zagoronce you understand the general concepts, the code is not hard to read
15:55:40Zagorbut knowing where to start reading is daunting
15:56:22pamauryby general you mean, what is the "core", what is "apps", trying to get an overview of the "structure" of the source, etc
15:56:53Zagorthat's a start
15:57:13pamaurythere already are some pages about it right ?
15:57:32Zagorare there?
15:58:48pamaurythere is a RockboxArchitecture page
15:59:36pamaurythere is also SourceLayout and TargetTree
15:59:46AlexPI bet they contradict each other :)
16:00:27pamauryno I think they agree, there is also UiSimulator but I bet it's outdated
16:02:53pamauryjust raising the idea, is the wiki the right place where to put a high level documentation ?
16:04:02AlexPIt could be
16:04:11AlexPIf it were findable
16:04:23AlexPAnd there was one page for each thing
16:04:49*AlexP will try to think of a way to handle this
16:05:30pamaurythe drawback of the wiki is that there are lots of different pages, no overall structure, you start at any page, you are not quite "guided"
16:05:46AlexPpamaury: Yes, this is my point
16:05:59AlexPAnd when there are multiple pages you don't know which you should read
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16:13:01Zagorthis is not a problem with the wiki per se. we just need to add structure.
16:13:38AlexPyeah, exactly
16:14:09AlexPIt is a problem with our wiki, not wikis in general
16:16:16AlexPJust needs a bit of organising
16:16:33AlexPNext time I'm bored...
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16:20:58JdGordon|wasted effort imo
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16:22:12JdGordon|10min in irc at the right time will learn you more than the whole wiki on most of the code.... the hard code is a moving target and wont be explained anywhere near weel enough (and updated) on the wiki ever
16:26:01Tornethere are lots of things that can't be explained in ten minutes no matter *who* is around to explain it for you
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16:26:31JdGordon|sure, and a detailed anough doc is going to be kept updated? yeah right
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16:31:00pamaurydepends on the doc
16:31:18pamauryif it's a high level view, it won't change too much too often
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16:37:21AlexPand there isn't only that on the wiki
16:37:39AlexPThere is loads of other information that can't be explained quickly here, we don't want to continually
16:37:53AlexPWhich would be really useful if easily findable
16:38:10AlexPLook at e.g. all the pages on compiling
16:38:17AlexPor on codec status
16:38:19AlexPetc. etc.
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16:39:10GuySoftanyone from the rockbox team here?
16:39:32AlexPAyla: You can use what JdGordon| just said as an example of why there isn't much documentation :)
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16:39:40AlexPGuySoft: Depends what you want, just ask the question
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16:41:31GuySoftAlexP, I want to add in the wiki page a link to the plugin i wrote for gpodder, that encodes files that were downloaded for rockbox :)
16:41:45AlexPHave you signed up for the wiki?
16:41:52AlexPIf so, what is your wiki name?
16:41:54GuySoftAlexP, also i want to see if anyone would like to try it out here
16:42:15GuySoftAlexP, I tried, it said access denied and ask someone from the team to authrize me
16:42:20GuySoftmy name there is GuySoft
16:43:05AlexPI needs to be your real name
16:43:58AylaAlexP: well, I've been on IRC for days now, looks like it was never the "right time" :)
16:47:08pamauryimo, irc is good if you have a precise question, not if you have a global question on how it works
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17:16:26GuySoftAlexP, guy sheffer , the wiki name is GuySoft though
17:16:50GuySoftAlexP, can't my name be my name, and the wikispace name be my wikispace name?
17:17:23AlexPGuySoft: Your wiki name must be your real name
17:17:36AlexPThis is written on the registration page
17:17:41AlexPWe have a real name policy
17:17:55GuySoftAlexP, I makde my first and last name my real name
17:18:05GuySoftI thought it does not apply to the actual user name
17:18:10AlexPIt does
17:18:43AlexPSee point 2 in bold on the registration page
17:18:57AlexP"Use your real name as WikiName"
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17:22:55Aylahow many targets feature a MIPS CPU?
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17:28:00LambdaCalculus37Ayla: The VX7x7 players.
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18:12:32GuySoftjust published this second:
18:15:58 Quit skapazzo (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
18:16:53 Join skapazzo [0] (
18:21:22u42pGuySoft: text colour is a very bad choice in my opinion
18:21:51u42pmy eyes constantly hop to links in the next line
18:22:53GuySoftu42p, where in the page?
18:23:01u42pyour content text
18:24:16 Join DerPapst [0] (
18:24:59GuySoftu42p, didn't change it the last 4 years really, and I have another Hebrew blog that uses that template, it would be am mess to port a new one for me
18:25:57GuySoftu42p, if it really hurts your eyes you can try zomming to increase the size of the letters, paste it somewhere, or just use this:
18:26:18 Quit krazykit (Quit: eeeeeeeey)
18:26:20GuySoftu42p, do you have any input on the actual content of the post?
18:26:30u42pi use opera so getting a well readable version is just one mouseclick
18:26:32u42pnope, sorry
18:26:47u42pi was hoping for some library syncing between the two :)
18:27:01u42pi dont use it for videos at all
18:29:03 Join Sudos|i1520 [0] (~FLOORISLA@
18:31:26Sudos|i1520so 3.8.1 released yesterday. I just tested it on my iPod 3G, and I'm finding something pretty funky in the user interface when I press the Resume Playback button on boot-up. if there isn't anything to resume, the screen flickers over very, very quickly to the playback screen and then back to the main menu without any sort of notification or warning.
18:32:38AlexPIs this new?
18:32:58Sudos|i1520the player?
18:33:05 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18:33:07Sudos|i1520no, I've been using Rockbox on it since 3.6.
18:33:15Sudos|i1520this has never happened before.
18:33:22AlexPNo, I meant is this behaviour new
18:33:33Sudos|i1520this behavior is indeed new.
18:34:05 Join factor [0] (~factor@
18:34:14AlexPHmmm, you should get a "nothing to resume" splash IIRC
18:34:39Sudos|i1520I reverted back to 3.8, this behavior didn't happen.
18:35:02Sudos|i1520but I currently have it back on 3.8.1 again with a clean install, old installed backed up elsewhere, and the same behavior occurs.
18:36:06AlexPOdd, it works fine here on fuzev2
18:36:06Sudos|i1520I would see if this also happened on my Clip+, but that sadly got stolen. so my 3G is the only device I know of currently in my posession that this happens on.
18:36:17AlexPI get the splash as expected
18:36:23Sudos|i1520yeah, I was just about to ask if I could get some input on this.
18:37:41Sudos|i1520it'd be great if there were iPod 2G/3G owners in here, active at the current moment, if any, just to get a show to see if this happens on other PP5002 devices.
18:39:13Sudos|i1520I'm bidding on some more third-gens on eBay at the current moment, if and when I get them, if this isn't resolved by then by some strange chance, I'll try this out on them as well. but I was really curious to see if this was a problem that was already known but not yet submitted before I went and made a task submission to flyspray.
18:40:08Sudos|i1520but I don't think it's valid to do that yet before I can find another 3G user that also has this problem confirmed on their device.
18:40:34Sudos|i1520doubly sure it's a real bug, you know?
18:41:47Sudos|i1520....I'll take it to the forums first. I think that'd be the logical thing to do here.
18:42:22TorneIt's extremely unlikely that that behaviour is hardware-specific
18:42:40Tornetry resetting all your settings?
18:44:41Sudos|i1520tried that.
18:45:17Sudos|i1520it only happens initially on bootup. if I do it after playing a single song, it shows the "nothing to resume" notification
18:45:38Sudos|i1520rephrase, initially on bootup IF there was nothing initially to resume on bootup.
18:47:12 Quit silbo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:51:03TorneAlexP: did you try it like that?
18:51:30Torneit's still extremely unlikely that it's hardware specific. :)
18:51:46AlexPSo play a song, shut down, then on restart try to resume?
18:52:54AlexPI start up, try to resume and get the nothing to resume flash as expected
18:55:22 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@
18:55:45Torneare you picking resume playback from the menu, or pressing the play button to resume?
18:57:22 Quit swilde (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
18:57:30Sudos|i1520Torne. both
18:57:44Sudos|i1520from the menu and pressing the play button.
18:58:18Sudos|i1520but yeah, AlexP, play a single song with nothing after it, shut down, start back up, press play or select from the menu.
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19:03:44smkhi, i have questions regarding the gsoc buflib project. Anyone here whom i can ask?
19:03:57Tornejust ask; many people can probably help.
19:05:17Sudos|i1520alright, posted on the forum.
19:05:26smkthe project statement says we have to move buflib to core. Why not use it as is, i mean as a library or API. The core programs can use this API? I assume that's how it is currently being used.
19:05:51Sudos|i1520Thanks anyways for the bit of insight into this, and the confirmation in small part that it might only be this specific player, AlexP.
19:07:25 Join Stummi [0] (~Stummi@rockbox/developer/Stummi)
19:07:37Sudos|i1520I'm going to head off now. However, I'll be back soon when I get some more replies and any possible ideas on this. Again, thanks.
19:07:48 Quit Sudos|i1520 (Quit: thanks!)
19:08:42 Quit bieber (Remote host closed the connection)
19:10:12smksorry, need to go. Will be back soon and hope to have a discussion with someone on buflib.
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19:12:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:13:28GuySoftu42p, but there is a component that syncs betWeen the tWo!
19:13:42GuySoftI never got it to Work though
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20:30:15bluebrotherurgh. Looks like I can't build rbspeex on Cygwin 1.7 due to -mno-cygwin
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20:34:46*gevaerts reminds students that they only have about 24 hours left to submit their GSoC proposal
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20:58:24Aylagevaerts, I hope I won't forget :D
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21:00:30bluebrothernice, I managed to build the manual using Cygwin and MiKTeX :)
21:01:33pixelmadid you see what package Buschel found? He managed too
21:02:00*pixelma still hasn't tried yet though
21:02:38BuscheljhMikeS: does this patch solve the issues with playlist shuffling/inserting for you? ->
21:02:39 Join evilnick_B [0] (0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick)
21:05:25 Join denisesball [0] (
21:06:16denisesballhey all. since i updated my sansa clip+ to 3.8 with rockboxutil, the internal memory no longer shows up as having a partition on it and i'm only able to mount the microsdcard. this also prevents me from upgrading to 3.8.1
21:07:28saratogacheck the disk for errors in windows
21:07:32bluebrotherpixelma: MiKTeX has this nice feature of automatically downloading missing packages. I just tried building the manual and confirmed installation of all missing packages :)
21:07:36denisesballsaratoga: i'm using linux
21:07:51saratogause linux then
21:08:13gevaertsdenisesball: you should be able to mount it as the full device, i.e. /dev/sdx instead of /dev/sdx1
21:08:53 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
21:09:02pixelmabluebrother: would this possibily help for getting an html manual to work under cygwin too?
21:09:05gevaertsDon't ask me why installing rockbox changes that though...
21:09:25denisesballgevaerts: i tried that, doesnt work -
21:09:42*bluebrother tries
21:10:08gevaertsdenisesball: that's interesting...
21:10:39bluebrotherit does download some htlatex.bat package
21:11:12 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
21:11:46denisesballgevaerts: yeah i dont understand either. heres my dmesg -
21:12:00denisesballi've never really seen a partition not show but still work...
21:12:35gevaertsdenisesball: possibly pointing fsck.vfat at it may show something, but I don't know
21:12:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:13:15denisesballgevaerts: interesting, getting some output
21:13:47denisesballany idea which i should choose there?
21:14:50gevaertsThat one is basically impossible to know. If you prefer odd numbers, pick 1, otherwise pick 2. Alternatively, flip a coin
21:15:40denisesballhow about this one?
21:15:44denisesballthis is very strange
21:16:50gevaertsLooks like you have some interesting filesystem corruption...
21:17:08denisesballi dont wanna blame rockbox, but it's all ive done to it
21:17:29gevaertsAt this point, if you have nothing important on the clip, I'd consider formatting it from the OF settings menu (I assume the clip+ can do that...)
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21:18:15denisesballgevaerts: not sure i have that option, only see reset factory settings
21:18:22denisesballoh nvm i found it
21:18:41gevaertsAnd then install 3.8.1. Some of the fixes in there are related to storage access, so I wouldn't rule out rockbox being somehow involved here. 3.8 wasn't our best release ever :\
21:18:42denisesballgood idea, ill try that
21:18:59denisesballyeah the reason i wanted to upgrade was another bug 3.8 caused :P
21:19:38denisesballformatting now
21:20:23 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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21:20:30 Nick Buschel_ is now known as Buschel (
21:20:50denisesballgevaerts: yeah that didnt help, think it just formats the data storage
21:21:11denisesballactually nvm, it mounted!
21:21:54denisesballubuntu automounted the 4gb drive now even though fdisk still doesnt see a partition on there, i'll try installing 3.8.1 now, thanks
21:23:47gevaertsI'm pretty sure the lack of partition table is normal
21:25:29denisesballreally? it was weird how it wouldnt mount before then
21:26:18bluebrotherhmm. Building the (pdf) manual from cmd.exe using Cygwin tools works. Using MinGW / msys doesn't.
21:26:44gevaertsThe FAT superblock was broken
21:27:17denisesballwell 3.8.1 installed fine this time. wahoo
21:29:16denisesballremoved, booted into rockbox 3.8.1, powered off, plugged back in, and it still mounted. i think i'm good. thanks for the help
21:29:26gevaertsYou're welcome
21:29:34denisesballwatch out for 3.8!
21:32:19denisesballtake care
21:32:20 Part denisesball ("Ex-Chat")
21:33:13leavittxPeople. I'm not supra-familiar with makefiles/configure scripts. So does anyone have an idea how it's possible to preprocess *all* rockbox source files using some (ok,for example -D__GCCE__) c preprocessor flags? Please! :)
21:33:45leavittx*All files that are needed for my build
21:34:04bluebrotherwhy do you want to do that?
21:34:21leavittxit's needed for building with gcce
21:34:47bluebrotherhmm. Symbian?
21:34:50leavittxyep :)
21:35:13bluebrothercan't you use gcc for arm?
21:35:35leavittxsymbian build system is kind of messy
21:35:41leavittxso I think no
21:35:51leavittxgcce is gcc for arm,actually
21:35:56*bluebrother has no experience with symbian
21:36:03gevaertsleavittx: does -save-temps help?
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21:36:25AlexPbluebrother: Now is the ideal time to learn, it is a growing platform!
21:36:42BuscheljhMikeS: I need to provide an update of the former patch ->
21:36:50bluebrotherAlexP: right, since Nokia dropped it (but says it will keep living!)
21:37:00*AlexP trusts them
21:37:35*bluebrother doesn't
21:37:41leavittxgevaerts: oh, why do I might need that?
21:38:03gevaertsleavittx: it tells gcc to keep the preprocessed files
21:38:12bluebrotherleavittx: you could build Rockbox using arm-elf-gcc and keep the preprocessed files
21:38:20AlexPbluebrother: I may or may not have been employing sarcasm :)
21:38:31bluebrotherAlexP: what? ;-)
21:40:58leavittxgevaerts,bluebrother: so why isn't gcce suits for me? :)
21:41:17gevaertshm, wait
21:41:26gevaertsI probably misunderstood what you said...
21:41:44leavittxactually even ffmpeg has a makefile for symbian
21:42:02leavittxI just need something like CPPFLAGS = -I$(EPOCROOT)/epoc32/include -I$(EPOCROOT)/epoc32/include/stdapis -D__GCCE__ -D__SYMBIAN32__
21:42:06leavittxfor rockbox
21:42:06bluebrotherso how exactly does gcce want the sources? What's the special thing about it?
21:42:07gevaertsAdd those flags you need to GCCOPTS in the generated makefile
21:42:19gevaertsbluebrother: it doesn't :)
21:42:31*bluebrother confused
21:42:46 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
21:42:53jhMikeSBuschel: This is getting complicated now :)
21:43:01Buschelyes :/
21:43:03leavittxbluebrother: gcce is just compiler
21:43:10gevaertsbluebrother: I'm just happy that I'm not the only one who got confused :)
21:43:25jhMikeSBuschel: Even the old code messes up
21:43:33leavittxso gcce wants it like arm-none-symbianelf-gcc somefile.c
21:43:51bluebrotherso does gcce do the usual preprocessing?
21:44:09bluebrotheror do you need to run cpp separately (that's what I understood initially)
21:44:30BuschelI am thinking of undoing my last change...
21:44:47leavittxI guess gcce do it internally.
21:45:06Buschel...and wait for your rework...
21:45:17jhMikeSBuschel: I don't think your change caused it
21:45:41 Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
21:46:21Buschel? the code _before_ my change to svn does also not resume correct in case of shuffle ?
21:46:37jhMikeSI reverted my changes to just use the old style since it doesn't need the help for end of track and the resume after shuffle is still wrong
21:47:21jhMikeSI suspect not, my changes + old svn = wrong resume, never tried old svn alone
21:48:02jhMikeSbut my patch isn't doing anything fancy with that
21:50:04Buschelyou know what? I will just submit the patch to svn. if there is any other sideeffect I should have overseen I will fix this as well
21:53:21jhMikeSI think it's the playlists for that bug. Maybe confirm before the first patch?
21:53:31bluebrotherhtlatex is really a beast :(
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22:00:09 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Laptop going down for now.)
22:01:00BuscheljhMikeS: svn before my first change (r29682) handled shuffle/insert/delete correct. r29682 broke this
22:03:30leavittxThe strange thing: when I add to GCCOPTS in Makefile −−include=$(EPOCROOT)/epoc32/include/gcce/gcce.h , I get "apps/codecs/codecs.make:59: *** missing separator. Stop. make." error. And it happens only if gcce.h (any other header behave like that too, I have checked) contains at least one typedef! Wtf??
22:04:25 Quit Ayla (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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22:05:24leavittxCheck it yourself!
22:05:28 Join mem_ [0] (
22:05:30gevaertsEPOCROOT doesn't have spaces or so by any chance?
22:05:54bluebrotheris −−include standing on a line of its own and the previous missing a trailing \?
22:06:12leavittxon the same line
22:07:06leavittxjust tried it with d2 sim and -include /tmp/check.h with only line "typedef int myint;"
22:07:18leavittxnot works!
22:07:33leavittxi.e. not compiles
22:08:10jhMikeSBuschel: I'm going to confirm that with r29681 unmodified since I'm not using r29682 in my own patch and it still does it
22:10:36 Join mt_ [0] (~mtee@
22:10:59bluebrotherpixelma: I've managed to build the html manual on Windows but only with some trickery and not from cygwin
22:11:09 Quit mt (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:11:21 Nick mt_ is now known as mt (~mtee@
22:11:57bluebrotheryou basically build the pdf from cygwin once, then open a cmd.exe, set PATH to include the miktex bin dir and call htlatex in the manual subfolder yourself as the Makefile does but leaving out the last -cvalidate option
22:12:18bluebrotherthat's _really_ ugly but it yields a html output.
22:12:42bluebrotheroh, and it doesn't copy the files correctly around so you don't get a folder with all files for the html output in it.
22:16:16leavittx−−include gcc parameter is neither in man gcc nor in google :(
22:17:56leavittxhm,maybe I just include needed file it in apps/main.c :)
22:19:32gevaertsnot in main.c
22:19:43gevaertsBut possibly in autoconf.h or config.h
22:24:00jhMikeSBuschel: r29681 is just as ill-behaved
22:25:26leavittxIt blames me with missed separator again. Anyone test including header with typedef from for example autoconf.h plz?
22:26:44bluebrotherleavittx: tries −−preinclude?
22:27:03 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
22:27:04jhMikeSBuschel: though with both r29681 and my patch, if I wait for rebuffering to finish before stopping, it _seems_ alright
22:27:54 Join wodz [0] (
22:28:37saratogain a filter on ARM, how painful is unstacking a register likely to be? it'd have to happen about once every 16 loads, 16 multiplies
22:28:56bluebrotherleavittx: oh, and according to it's -include, not −−include
22:29:11wodzheh, I just readed ID of the nand flash in my rockchip player - according to ID it is MICRON, and according to the physical chip label it is SAMSUNG :-)
22:29:15jhMikeSsaratoga: not much if for newer ARM you allow for latency
22:29:43saratogai can probably hide like 5-10 cycles latency
22:29:56saratogabut on arm9 that won't help right?
22:30:07jhMikeSarm9 yes
22:30:32jhMikeSarm7 no
22:30:46saratogai really want an extra register, now sure if its work stacking the output pointer :)
22:30:54 Quit Rob2222 (Max SendQ exceeded)
22:31:19 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
22:31:21leavittxbluebrother: −−preinclude gives me "cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fpreinclude=/home/lev/work/s60/s60/symbian-sdks/s60_31/epoc32/include/gcce/gcce.h"" :)
22:31:25jhMikeSI alwasys say, if in doubt, measure it :)
22:31:27saratogai guess the stack is likely to be a cache hit regardless?
22:31:36 Join wtachi [0] (
22:31:45saratogawell i have to rewrite about a hundred lines of DSP to try it the other way since I need that register :)
22:31:46leavittxbluebrother: -include file OR −−include=file
22:32:38bluebrotherleavittx: well, at least the gcc website I checked doesn't mention −−include.
22:32:50bluebrotherI might have been looking at the wrong page though :)
22:33:04CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29690): Fix regressions of r29682. Update playlist index resume position when playlist changes (e.g. shuffling, inserting, removing, ...).
22:33:27jhMikeSahhh! there was no regression (I confirmed just now)
22:33:57leavittxbluebrother: maybe it's just one of undocumented feature :) I have ffmpeg makefile as example and it uses −−include
22:34:03jhMikeSof course maybe it's slightly different r29682 (which I didn't check)
22:34:06 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called)
22:35:13BuscheljhMikeS: I am totally confused now... for me (using svn) r29681 worked regarding shuffling, r29682 did not work anymore. that's fixed now.
22:35:36Buschel(and fixed for some other usecases as well)
22:35:57jhMikeSI could get it to do it over and over if rebuffering hasn't completed. r29682 does it always?
22:37:04Buscheluse case: play a file in from a playlist, then shuffle the list. do not wait for a track change, but simply shut down the unit.
22:37:29Buschelr29681 -> resuming works fine, r29682 -> wrong track resumed
22:37:56CIA-87r29690 build result: 84 errors, 95 warnings (Buschel committed)
22:38:03Buschelgreat :/
22:38:07jhMikeSwhat I'm doing with r29681: play a file, shuffle (starts rebuffer), stop -> wrong resume
22:38:55 Join Keripo [0] (
22:39:10leavittxbluebrother: I was trying to figure out why codecs.make and why line 59... I have no idea :)
22:39:57jhMikeSBuschel: so, my patch and r29681 are doing the same thing (except SVN has other bugs going on too)
22:40:43Bagderleavittx: the gcc man page clearly says "-include"
22:41:21jhMikeSwith svn: 1) next track isn't updated, 2) rebuffer isn't complete
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22:46:00leavittxBagder: that change doesn't help anyway. Even adding typedef directly in autoconf.h causes that error!
22:46:46Bagdersorry I missed the actual error, can you repeat it?
22:47:51jhMikeSone thing I wish playlists didn't do was alter the indexing if entries are skipped
22:48:15leavittxBadger: the error is "apps/codecs/codecs.make:59: *** missing separator. Stop. make."
22:48:42leavittx"apps/codecs/codecs.make:59: *** missing separator. Stop.." actually
22:51:19Bagderwell, if adding a typedef in autoconf.h creates that error, something is weird
22:52:38leavittxCould you check it please?
22:53:13Bagdersorry, I'm in the middle of something else that I need to do now
22:53:30*TheSeven needs a quick briefing on the clip+'s boot process
22:53:34TheSevenwhat kind of information do we have?
22:53:34jhMikeSplaylists try to do fancy things that complicates both playlists and the code using them while neglecting some simple queries like "exactly how far is the advance outside the boundaries?"
22:53:40TheSevenhas anyone obtained a bootrom dump?
22:53:40bertrikWhat's the proper way to run test_disk on an external uSD?
22:54:12leavittxBagder: ok :)
22:54:46bertrikTheSeven, I don't know, maybe funman has
22:55:02 Quit saratoga (Quit: Page closed)
22:55:22TheSevenis there any security mechanism involved on that chip? firmware signing? firmware readout protection?
22:55:41bertrikas far as I understand the builtin rom loads data from the internal sd memory (the stuff in the first 0xF000 sectors) and runs it.
22:56:02TheSevenso that's a raw arm executable?
22:56:07TheSevenis it checksum-protected somehow?
22:56:24bertrikwe replace the OF with a compressed image containing both the OF and the rockbox bootloader, with a bit of asm to decide which to expand
22:56:57bertrikTheSeven, I think there's a checksum, yes, nothing fancy like a signature
22:57:38bertrikI don't know the memory maps during boot
22:57:50TheSevenwhat's the SD sector size? 512?
22:58:06TheSeven0xf000 sectors would be 32MB?
22:58:10TheSevena zero too much?
22:58:41 Quit Ayla (Quit: dodo)
22:58:50bertrikthe internal NAND flash is made to look like an sd card, so software doesn't have to worry about NAND specific stuff
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22:59:31bertrik0xf000 is 30 MB exactly
22:59:47TheSeven30MB sounds like a bit too much though
22:59:57bertrikthe firmware image is 15 MB, not sure what is in the other half
23:00:06TheSevenso they have 32MB of ram?
23:01:06bertrikI don't know, much less I think
23:01:07jhMikeSr29690 still doesn't resume correctly after a shuffle
23:02:27TheSevenbertrik: how would it load 30MB of firmware then?
23:02:37 Join icheyne [0] (~522cccba@
23:02:40icheynehi all
23:02:48bertriksideral, have you been able to try if the interference on the clipv2 has been reduced with recent rockbox
23:03:20bertrikTheSeven, I don't know how much the load, but at least the first 0xF000 sectors are reserved somehow
23:03:22sideralbertrik: not yet, but let me try it right away
23:03:26jhMikeSBuschel: I mean, sometimes it does, often not :)
23:03:45BuscheljhMikeS: use case like you described?
23:04:50icheyne(Clip+ r29690) If I initialise my database, and I use database.ignore files to stop scanning my database, I am still picking up files from the ignored directory in my database.
23:05:00icheyneshould I report this bug?
23:05:08bertrikI think at some point, someone ran the patched OF in a qemu
23:05:18wodzdoes fwrite() advances position in stream? I mean if I call two times fwrite() in series the data will be appended or overwriten?
23:05:25jhMikeSBuschel: I can wait for rebuffer and it's still wrong 80-90% of the time
23:05:37bertrikto debug/try out the decompression thing
23:06:11icheynein fact - database.ignore files seem to be broken
23:06:27BuscheljhMikeS: did svn work reliable with r29681 when you wait for rebuffer to finish?
23:06:36sideralbertrik: I'm running an r29679-based build (from 2 days ago), and the noise is still present.
23:07:16bertriksideral, also still about the same intensity?
23:07:28*Buschel does not understand what is going on :(
23:07:32sideralbertrik: I'd say yes
23:07:45jhMikeSBuschel: much more so anyway (though the whole idea of messing with the in-use playlist is very racy)
23:07:58 Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
23:08:40 Quit saratoga (Changing host)
23:08:40 Join saratoga [0] (9803c6dd@rockbox/developer/saratoga)
23:09:01bertriksideral, another interaction between the sd access and the noise could be calls to sd_enable. Function sd_enable completely turns on/off the clock to the sd card related logic. Maybe this creates interference.
23:09:42icheyneOK I added my database.ignore bug to flyspray -
23:10:14sideralbertrik: as the noise is present on the ClipV2 even when the disk is not accessed, I don't think it's related to SD accesses
23:10:26bertrikoh, ok
23:10:49saratogatheres some relation to SD access though
23:10:56saratogaat least it seems to change when teh disk is accessed
23:11:24sideralyes, there's another noise when the disk is accessed, which is also present on the clip+ (with external SD accesses)
23:11:43bcoco85noise? in what device?
23:11:51 Quit icheyne (Quit: CGI:IRC)
23:12:02BuscheljhMikeS: can you please again describe how exactly you reproduce this wrong resuming? I am working on sim now
23:12:09sideralbcoco85: clipV2 / clip+
23:12:27jhMikeSBuschel: There is one case nothing will fix where it must be pre-advanced at, for example, a directory change and the indexes from the previously have no meaning to the new one
23:13:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:13:20jhMikeSBuschel: Play some random song from a directory, go to reshuffle, stop, the resume -> incorrect track, correct time
23:14:42 Nick jae_ is now known as jae (
23:16:48BuscheljhMikeS: reshuffle = switching Shuffle "no" to "yes" ? if so, this works fine here...
23:17:12Buschelcorrect track, correct time.
23:17:28jhMikeSno, Context Menu from wps -> Playlist -> Reshuffle
23:17:49Buschelahhh, let's see
23:18:42TheSevenbertrik: so we can simulate enough of that hardware to make use of it?
23:19:36*wodz is making flash dump of the rockchip player :-)
23:19:52wodz300-400kB/s - not that bad
23:20:10BuscheljhMikeS: works as well
23:20:16*jhMikeS just tried it through shuffle yes/no and got the same problem
23:20:34jhMikeSI'm not using the sim though
23:21:49jhMikeSconfirm revision : r29690-110407
23:22:05jhMikeSgigabeat S
23:25:44TheSevenbertrik: do we have a list of datasheets or similar things about the soc used in the clip+?
23:25:51TheSeven(is it the as3525v2?)
23:26:38*jhMikeS is too playbackengined to think
23:26:52bertrikTheSeven, we haven't been really organised about that. The AFE part in the clip+ SoC is very similar to the AS3543.
23:27:19bertrikanalog front-end
23:27:32TheSeventhat doesn't sound like the part i'm looking for
23:28:02 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
23:28:09bertrikvarious of the digital parts are "standard arm" blocks, like the DMA controller
23:28:20TheSevendo we know their base adresses?
23:29:26TheSevenis there a list of them somewhere? or do i need to reverse engineer that from the source code?
23:30:32bertrikfirmware/export/as3525.h has most of them I think
23:30:42TheSevenso the latter...
23:31:06 Quit mystica555 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:31:41bertrikFor the Clip+ SoC is mostly identical to the AS3525 of which there is a data sheet
23:31:44TheSevendo you have any pointers where to look for the firmware checksumming algorithm?
23:31:59TheSevenis that datasheet accurate in terms of base addresses?
23:32:45saratogathe firmware format is sandisk's
23:32:46bertrikI think it's accurate for most things, sd card controller addresses are different IIRC
23:33:33saratogamkamsboot, amsinfo, and the wiki have everything reverse engineered i think
23:33:45saratogawhat are you looking for?
23:35:19 Part mem_
23:35:23TheSevensaratoga: trying to get an overview about how this thing works, especially the boot process
23:35:46saratogathe format I think has a simple header at the top with a 32 bit checksum
23:35:48bertrikrbutils/mkamsboot/mkamsboot.c has some memory maps
23:35:58TheSeveni want to try taking a shot at unbricking one of those via that strange 4MB drive, so I need to figure out how that one works
23:36:03saratogai think it just sums the file to compute it
23:36:38saratogathe firmware itself can be unpacked with the amsinfo tool, its a bunch of library blocks of fixed size which are loaded from the firmware partition as needed by the OF
23:36:40TheSevendo you know if we have any rom dumps of those things?
23:36:42saratogatheres ones for USB, MP3, etc
23:37:31saratogathe firmware is basically an image of half the firmware the partition, IIRC the other half is another copy of the firmware with some additional memory for NV OF storage
23:37:44saratoga"the firmware" -> "the firmware bin file"
23:38:13 Join mystica555 [0] (
23:38:47saratogado you have a working player? its probably not too hard to dump the firmware partition from rockbox or even by using the recovery trick
23:38:55CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29691): Fix red and yellow. Move resume_index from mp3entry to playlist_info struct. Bump codec api.
23:38:58 Quit mshathlonxp (Quit: Leaving)
23:39:46Buschelthis will hopefully fix those damn reds and yellows... then back again to this whack-a-mole of resuming...
23:39:47bertrikMaybe we can get an image from the internal boot ROM, not sure if anyone ever tried that
23:40:25TheSevensaratoga: no, i don't have a working one, but i might get one if i need to
23:40:38TheSevenbut I don't really look for the firmware image but rather the on-chip boot rom
23:40:44saratogasd_transfer_sectors passes over the OF image
23:41:03saratogaso i guess in theory we could call a modified version of that in main() after the init and write it to disk
23:42:50bertrikthe as3525 says there is an 128k internal ROM at address 0x0 (probably mapped away during normal operation) and an alias at 0x8000.0000
23:42:55 Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.)
23:43:02bertrik+datasheet somewhere
23:43:12saratogaTheSeven: you mean the NAND image right?
23:43:36TheSevenno, i mean a mask rom
23:44:20bertrikTheSeven, get the as3525 datasheet, it's called AS3525_Datasheet_v1_13.pdf
23:44:21CIA-87r29691 build result: 45 errors, 0 warnings (Buschel committed)
23:44:53saratogai don't think anyone knows what happening in that ROM
23:45:11 Quit evilnick_B (Quit: Page closed)
23:47:42saratogafunman started the port by patching the NAND image, so we never had to deal with what runs before the NAND
23:48:39TheSevenhow on earth did you guys manage to do that without bricking dozens of devices?
23:49:02*jhMikeS says "arghhh" too since he has to keep resolving conflicts
23:49:11bertrikfunman bricked two or so
23:51:05saratogathe original code literally just put some NOPs in and then booted the OF
23:51:23*leavittx wonders why limits.h from symbian sdk doesn't have PATH_MAX
23:51:25saratogahe very carefully tested things by adding more NOPs then booting the OF and looking to see if theres a delay
23:51:36*TheSeven is pretty sure that the "full flash" recovery code is stored in the mask rom and the "4mb drive" one is stored on the nand somewhere
23:51:55saratogaprobably, since you only get the full flash one when the NAND isnt' working
23:52:35TheSeventhe fun fact is that on this device i always get the 4mb one even if i pull that pin high
23:53:08bertrikmy theory is that the "unbricking pin" interferes with normal NAND operation and causes some kind of checksum error making the device go into the recovery mode
23:53:18TheSevenprobably not on this one
23:53:31TheSevenit looks more like it's connected to the IntBootSel pin
23:53:55saratogawe're not really sure if that part of the datasheet applies
23:54:06saratogaSandisk seems to have customized the chip
23:54:14bertrikon the e200v2 you could trace the bridge to some NAND chip pin
23:54:33TheSevenlet me do some measurements...
23:55:18saratogahow would booting off of NAND work? would the hardware be able to memory map the start of the NAND chip so that it could execute from it?
23:55:34TheSeventhere's a 50k pulldown on that chip
23:55:53TheSevensaratoga: probably some buffer in the SD controller
23:57:06TheSevenand another fact that raises some doubt about it being connected to the nand is that it always boots into the 4mb mode on this device, even though this pin is definitely pulled high
23:57:50*jhMikeS also "arghs" hoping he isn't slowly forced into using a resume mechanism that isn't needed here
23:58:07saratogai guess theres JTAG if you can't get that mode to run
23:58:50 Quit JackWinter (Remote host closed the connection)

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