#rockbox 2011-04-08

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#rockbox log for 2011-04-08

00:00:15	*	sideral is an awesome tagtree wrangler
00:00:39	bertrik	I should have made notes when unbricking my clip+, but I was too anxious about just getting it back to life
00:01:09	sideral	I've just added my first feature to the DB browser. :)
00:01:40	jhMikeS	Buschel: No, with my rework, there is no problem about correct resume at pending track transitions
00:02:01		Join mt_ [0] (~mtee@41.233.149.140)
00:02:22	TheSeven	do we know the clip+ jtag pins?
00:03:01		Quit mt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:03:09	bertrik	yes, probably, http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WebHome?topic=SansaClip
00:03:12		Nick mt_ is now known as mt (~mtee@41.233.149.140)
00:03:33	jhMikeS	of course, I don't know if anyone will want that stuff committed...it's not like it's reduces binsize (definitely not depending on if a reliable skip peek-ahead is wanted)
00:04:42		Quit silbo (Remote host closed the connection)
00:05:03		Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:05:14	jhMikeS	of course I didn't give a toss about binsize, only being thorough
00:05:24	TheSeven	dammit
00:05:25		Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
00:05:34	TheSeven	not even grounding a data pin of the nand makes it go to the other mode
00:06:38	jhMikeS	it's always those last little annoying bits that seem to eat up more time than the bulk of the work :\
00:06:44		Quit ender` (Quit: Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night.")
00:07:01	bertrik	I could try to write a simple plugin tomorrow to dump the internal ROM alias at 0x8000.0000 to a file
00:08:09	gevaerts	bertrik: actually, IIRC there's some code in the debug menu already that does such things, so you should be able to just change an address and size somewhere
00:11:21	CIA-87	New commit by Buschel (r29692): Fix residual red. Keep index in mp3entry for HWCODEC.
00:12:08		Quit boghog (Quit: boghog)
00:13:34	TheSeven	bertrik, saratoga: no matter what i do, it will always boot into the 4mb mode
00:14:01	TheSeven	neither the recovery pin nor the flash data pins seem to have an influence
00:14:38	jhMikeS	Buschel: what about the mpeg.c lines that were removed? :)
00:16:21	bertrik	TheSeven, the 4mb mode is non-volatile, right?
00:16:27	CIA-87	r29692 build result: All green
00:16:37	TheSeven	it's really funny
00:16:49	TheSeven	the data i read on that drive is some kind of repetitive garbage pattern
00:17:03	TheSeven	it's always a bit different, but always looks kind of similar
00:17:09	Buschel	jhMikeS: from my understanding those were not relevant in sim. the target related usage of "index" might be used by the alpine_cdc plugin...
00:17:27	TheSeven	reading is way faster than writing, and if i write to it, the data seems to be kept until the next reboot
00:17:44	TheSeven	if i unplug and replug it, it stops respoding until i reboot it
00:17:52	TheSeven	after that reboot, the garbage pattern is there again
00:18:14	Buschel	jhMikeS: weird dependencies we have...
00:18:18	bertrik	so maybe it's ram, and the garbage pattern is a left-over of a ram test?
00:18:35	jhMikeS	stovepipes
00:18:38	TheSeven	but why would writing be like 4 times slower than reading then?
00:18:44	bertrik	hm, don't know
00:21:05		Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
00:21:31		Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:21:41		Part bcoco85
00:22:11	*	jhMikeS aims to kill offset based resume shortly after which would simplify things (offset being a rough buffering guide only)
00:23:13	sideral	jhMikeS: What do you want to replace it with −− time offset?
00:23:29	jhMikeS	time for everything
00:23:47	amiconn	You can
00:23:57	sideral	probably a good idea
00:24:05	TheSeven	hm, the only thing i could think of as a jtag candidate would that unpopulated thing in the top right corner: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/SansaAMSUnbrick/sandisksansaclipplusdis.jpg
00:24:06	amiconn	't resume mp3 at a precise point in time without scanning the whole file
00:25:26	jhMikeS	I know there a few consideration with that. Most codecs have no use of it on SWCODEC, just mpa and wavpack
00:25:42	*	TheSeven gives up on that one for tonight
00:27:46	*	amiconn wonders what's bad about offset based resume
00:28:16	amiconn	It works for all formats and doesn't require excessive scanning
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00:29:17		Nick mt_ is now known as mt (~mtee@41.233.149.140)
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00:30:09	sideral	amiconn: One problem I've found with offsets is that they aren't portable to non-Rockbox players −− no other (non-Rockbox) player I know uses resume offsets, making synchronizing resume offsets among heterogeneous players harder
00:30:15	jhMikeS	like I said, nothing uses it but wavpack and mpa but even with time resume, offset could still operate
00:31:00	amiconn	Why would one synchronize resume offsets between different players?
00:31:36	jhMikeS	there's the inconsistency and playback has to play some games internally. the new version also can run codecs specifically to seek them and offset is bogus since playback doesn't know what it should be
00:31:48	sideral	amiconn: To continue listening to a podcast at home that I started listening to at work or on my mobile DAP
00:31:54		Quit efyx (Remote host closed the connection)
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00:32:08	Buschel	jhMikeS: I just tested resume on my nano 2g target. works fine even when reshuffling
00:32:59	jhMikeS	I just made a fresh build from SVN, I'll check again
00:33:17	amiconn	sideral: So why not using rockbox at home as well?
00:33:56	Buschel	btw, what was the command to resync all files via svn?
00:34:00	sideral	amiconn: My Squeezeboxen don't run it −− neither does my Linux desktop at work
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00:35:40	*	amiconn uses his daps at home or at work as well, except for one thing - http streaming - which doesn't have resume indices
00:36:03		Quit mt (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:36:10	sideral	amiconn: gPodder (the podcatcher I use) will soon offer synchronizing resume points across multiple players (even remotely via a web service), and they plan to use the timecode as the resume point
00:36:10		Nick mt_ is now known as mt (~mtee@41.233.149.140)
00:38:22	*	amiconn still thinks that if the most common format doesn't mix well with time based resume, using the latter is a bad idea
00:39:35	amiconn	For vbr with xing header you can at least do an estimate - without xing header there's no way. You don't even know the total playing time of the track in that case
00:40:55	sideral	How does Rockbox derive it's time offset from the storage offset it a VBR track is resumed in the middle?
00:41:14	sideral	Also, don't bookmarks use a time offset as well?
00:41:21	user890104	is ROLO supported on ipod nano 2g?
00:41:30	jhMikeS	sideral: see mpa.c
00:41:41	jhMikeS	that's one way, I haven't checked hwcodec
00:41:52		Quit kevku (Read error: Operation timed out)
00:44:09	amiconn	Getting time offset from byte offset is also just an estimate, but unlike doing it the other way round, precision isn't important, since it's just for display
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00:45:13	Buschel	my build says "Version: r29689:29690M-110407"... how can I search for the cause of r29689 quickly?
00:45:18	jhMikeS	if cuesheets are involved then precision can be quite important
00:46:00		Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
00:48:39	amiconn	Why? All that happens is that the sub-track changes aren't displayed properly. The resume position within the file will still be correct
00:48:49		Quit mt (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:49:04	*	jhMikeS still sees the same resume problems after shuffle
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00:50:16	amiconn	Whereas if you base resume on time offset, the resume position may be off by half a minute or so within a cd-length vbr mp3 file
00:50:38	amiconn	That's with xing header
00:50:52	*	Buschel wishes he never touched this code... I did not expect and want to spent so many hours on this :/
00:51:06	Buschel	need to get some sleep now...
00:51:34	jhMikeS	goodnight (trust me, I sympathize :)
00:51:46		Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
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01:00
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01:05:05	saratoga	on arm11, do i need to interleave loads, or is there no advantage to that
01:05:28	saratoga	its not clear to me if the load/store pipeline can have multiple loads outstanding at once
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01:10:16	jhMikeS	iirc it's just the early/dependencies that matter
01:10:26	jhMikeS	*early/late
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01:11:21	telliott	My playlist is showing an error on a file that plays just fine on my clip+ from the file browser. Has anyone seen that happen?
01:11:25	saratoga	so as long as nothing touches those registers, the multiplier can keep running without stalling?
01:12:17		Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services)
01:12:19	jhMikeS	yes, so long as it doesn't need them
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01:12:48	telliott	The playlist had "#UTF8:" in front of some entries so I removed it but the error remains
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01:22:19	saratoga	ldmpc is some psuedo instruction right? does anyone know if it has to go last or if i can have one more op after it to do some last bit of clean up
01:24:43		Quit soap__ (Quit: soap__)
01:26:30	Torne	saratoga: never seen that one
01:26:35	Torne	but not sure what you mean by one more op after it
01:26:40	Torne	oh, wait, you mean like a delay slot?
01:26:50	Torne	no, arm doesn't have those. instructions that change PC change it "immediately"
01:26:51	saratoga	the functions i saw use it as the last op
01:27:04	saratoga	i'm not sure if it also branches back to the caller or not
01:27:17	Torne	can you not see what it actually expands to?
01:27:34	Torne	ldmfd sp!, {pc}^ or something i assume?
01:28:47	saratoga	yeah looks like it updates the pc too
01:28:48	saratoga	ldmiasp!, {r4, r5, r6, r7, r8, r9, sl, fp, pc}
01:28:59	Torne	i have no idea why that would be a pseudo instruction then
01:29:11	saratoga	yeah seems pretty useless
01:29:13	Torne	(and fix your disassembler not to emit sl and fp and all that nonsense, too, nobody uses that) :)
01:29:24	saratoga	its the rockbox objdump
01:29:30	saratoga	no idea how it works
01:29:30	Torne	heh
01:29:41	Torne	anyway that's just restoring every callee-saved register
01:30:05	Torne	ldmfd sp!, {r4-11,pc}
01:30:15	Torne	is the conventional spelling in a source file
01:30:23	Torne	can't see why you'd write a pseudoop
01:30:28	jhMikeS	ldmpc is funman's solution to thumb interworking
01:30:50	Torne	oh, it's a macro?
01:30:57	jhMikeS	yes
01:31:15	Torne	ah. ick.
01:31:27	Torne	did nobody look into getting the linker to fix those?
01:31:34	Torne	the .v4_bx relocs should let you do it :)
01:31:52	Torne	i have no ideda how that works though
01:31:56	jhMikeS	it accounts for armv4 vs. v6 setting or not setting the T bit
01:33:42	Torne	hm
01:34:08	Torne	lowercase macros freak me out still :)
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02:00
02:04:05	saratoga	anyone feel like checking this for stalls?
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02:05:59	saratoga	http://dpaste.com/529877/
02:06:14	saratoga	i think it shouldn't stall on arm11
02:06:42	saratoga	oh crap just noticed an error
02:09:20	saratoga	http://dpaste.com/529877/
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02:16:30	saratoga	i think the above is right
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02:49:59		Quit Pleiadian2 (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
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02:55:38	*	jhMikeS nudges saratoga to grab the ARM11 reference that explains it all :)
02:56:05	saratoga	yeah i'm reading it
02:56:24	jhMikeS	good man :)
02:57:00	jhMikeS	it said the paste wasn't found anyhow
02:59:18	[Saint]	I'm no legal-beagle, and what I've read seems to imply it's ok...but if anyone knows for certain it would help: Is it ok for me to convert/redistribute an Apache licensed font on the themesite?
03:00
03:01:27	*	[Saint] found an Apache licensed myriad-sans clone perfect for the iLike themes
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03:17:34	Unhelpful	can you, um, use a less garden-path-like sentence?
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03:29:29	Unhelpful	objdump uses funny register names iirc. maybe there's a "i'd like rX" option?
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03:38:37	saratoga	synth.c:(.text+0x1ce0): undefined reference to `synth_full_mod_one'
03:38:50	saratoga	i've defined this in a .S file that is assembled by gcc
03:38:57	saratoga	what else do I need to do to make it link?
03:39:01	jhMikeS	did you use .global?
03:39:20	saratoga	.global synth_full_mod_one
03:39:59	jhMikeS	ummm...the .S is in the sources? :)
03:40:20	saratoga	i had to delete a /**/ comment
03:40:26	saratoga	now its confused about my .req statements
03:41:31	saratoga	if we preprocess .S files why can't I use block comments exactly?
03:41:45	jhMikeS	I haven't had any problem with those
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03:42:18	saratoga	something is badly fucked up
03:45:05	saratoga	i had this compiling a minute ago, now assembly doesn't seem to be able to parse the text
03:45:12	saratoga	giving me errors on lines with nothing related to the statement
03:46:22	Unhelpful	saratoga: pretty sure you can use block comments? :/
03:46:33	saratoga	yeah i see that
03:46:41	saratoga	no idea why removing them changes the errors i'm getting
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03:48:07	Unhelpful	copy-paste nested comments? but those should warn, also they tend to be obvious...
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03:49:07	saratoga	bah the GPL header at the top of the file was cut off and the comment never ended
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03:53:25	saratoga	a prefetch abort from an assembly file likely means what?
03:54:07	jhMikeS	that there's a bug in the assembly code :D
03:55:07	saratoga	i expected to hear static due to bugs, not just crash
04:00
04:02:21	saratoga	do i have to clean up any arguments left on the stack by the calling function, or does the compiler handle that?
04:02:28	saratoga	(if theres more then 4 args)
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04:13:10	*	Unhelpful is not sure who is responsible for clearing stack args... but couldn't you test by compiling a test function that calls an extern w/ >4 args?
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04:15:53	saratoga	does the stack count up as you push onto it, or count down as you push?
04:16:09	saratoga	add sp, sp, #16 @ compensate for temp storage
04:16:13	saratoga	thats making me worry
04:19:22	Unhelpful	that's a matter of convention, and i forget which way our stack grows :/
04:22:03	saratoga	apparently the opposite way i expected
04:32:23	jhMikeS	full-descending
04:33:04	saratoga	what about stacked arguments, do i have to remove them before returning?
04:33:42	jhMikeS	I don't think so, lemme check the yuv code
04:34:55	jhMikeS	apparenly no
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06:50:44	sevendeuce	Hello all, can someone please explain to me why this image will not work as album art http://i.imgur.com/AjuH2.jpg
06:51:23	sevendeuce	I have it saved as cover.jpg in the album by the way, it just won't show and picture flow says it's invalid.
06:53:04	pixelma	does it show up in the picture viewer (just click on the jpg)? Some forms of JPGs aren't supported, e.g. so-called "progressive scan" ones. That's a quick check
06:53:40	pixelma	it is also very huge and I'm not sure if there's a maximum size - but it would be a waste either way
06:56:37	sevendeuce	damm any idea how i can get it to not be progressive scan? I have tried saving it as .bmp; and even saved it as a .gif, then conveted it to jpg/bmp at one point out of frustration
07:00
07:01:19	pixelma	from what I can see, it isn't. Maybe it's too big, not sure. Other than that - converting should have helped if you have an eye on the correct options when saving.
07:03:57	sevendeuce	I don't think its too large as another cover i have is a full mb (too lazy to compress it) but thanks for the help. I'm gonna try putting it on my windows machine and saving it as a bitmap through mspaint :)
07:04:48	pixelma	I would probably try to scale it down. You didn't tell if you tried the imageviewer btw., I asked because it gives some output on fail
07:05:47	sevendeuce	Oh sorry it would just say the same thing as pictureflow, "image is invalid"
07:06:23	pixelma	well, I wasn't referring to file size but resolution - a 1405x1405 pictures is quite a waste on a 320x240 display or so (just using one of our targets resolution as a guess, as I don't know which player you have exactly)
07:09:11	sevendeuce	yeah its a huge waste. However I am also using my device as my music backup drive, so having proper resolution covers just in case is usefull.
07:09:25	sevendeuce	and saving it through paint worked
07:11:00	pixelma	ok
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07:16:55	smk	gsoc contestant here. Had come earlier to discuss the buflib project. But then I had to leave. anyway, the question i had asked was, why not use buflib as a library (like it is now). Why move it to the core?. How does it help?
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07:40:59	wtachi	smk: in order for buflib to be useful in the core, it will have to interact with parts of the core
07:41:15	wtachi	for instance, it needs to be aware of audio buffering
07:42:04	wtachi	oh, he's gone. silly me.
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07:45:55	IronSean	Does anyone know how the Google Summer of Coding Applications are going? It seems like a really great opportunity, but since the deadline is tomorrow and I just learned about it an hour ago, I may have missed the boat on being involved.
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07:52:09	rasher	IronSean: If the deadline is tomorrow, you have to hurry, but It's not too late
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08:02:34	IronSean	I definitely would have preferred having a couple weeks to get more familiar and really flesh out an idea, but I suppose nothing ever gets done if you don't try.
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08:03:10	wtachi	IronSean: there are students working on the buflib, ARM emulator, codec optimization, and codec library projects
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08:04:24	wtachi	I'd suggest not applying to one of those without relevant experience
08:04:36	wtachi	(I'm the student interested in the codec library project)
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08:10:01	JdGordon\|	wtachi: noone is working on anything yet.. its all ideas
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08:10:13	JdGordon\|	which get accepted (by us and then google) are very much up for debate
08:10:15	wtachi	right, we're working on proposals
08:17:22	IronSean	wtachi: Thanks for the heads up on where the interest has been.
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08:19:59	wtachi	IronSean: also, when I said "codec optimization", I think most interest is in AAC
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08:20:31	wtachi	MP3 (and also IMDCT?) would probably be very difficult without codec experience
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08:22:59	IronSean	Yeah, the MP3 optimization definitely appears to be a step above some of the others in terms of what would be required.
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09:58:53	kugel	I also posted my application for reloc plugins now, it still needs a bit of work but I'll do that until the deadline
10:00
10:00:56	rasher	And fill up our inboxes!
10:01:03	rasher	:)
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10:01:49	kugel	the deadline is 19:00 UTC (so 21:00 in my time) right?
10:03:09	*	kugel would like to know how many applications we have by now
10:03:14	gevaerts	yes
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10:12:52	IronSean	I don't know if I am going to get an application in, between studying and a final tomorrow and knowing that it will obviously look thrown together. I might just end up working as a normal contributer and attempting to do the SoC next summer.
10:15:36	AlexP	Sure, it is always great to get new people :)
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10:18:06	IronSean	I sure wish I had heard about the program a week ago instead of earlier tonight though :p
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10:58:10	gevaerts	IronSean: just for information, so we can maybe improve things, how did you hear from gsoc, and what could we (rockbox and/or gsoc community in general) have done to reach you earlier?
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11:50:41	rigoletto	gevaerts, searching for GSOC i found its used for German Space Operation Center :-)
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13:26:12	skapazzo	hello again to everyone.
13:29:15	*	skapazzo finally got everything in line and is applying, just in time.
13:29:38	Ayla	noooooooooo
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13:47:57	n1s	hmm, so i got talk clips in the playlist viewer to work but it's kind of hacky and i'd rather reuse the callback function from the tree
13:48:23	n1s	but it's so tied to that tree context stuff
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13:51:38	n1s	factoring the logic out might not be that hard though
13:52:44	wodz	hell, I can't match READ_ID response with any public micron datasheet
13:53:32	n1s	hmm, the filetree thing has a lot of dir handling stuff i don't need though
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14:31:45	n1s	hmm, this turned out nicer than i had hoped :)
14:31:57	n1s	just need to deal with the spell as numbers mode
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15:09:32	*	kugel updated both applications; they're almost final
15:10:32	*	gevaerts plans some heavy application reading tonight and tomorrow
15:10:36	CIA-87	New commit by nls (r29693): Voice filenames in the playlist viewer, closes FS #11951
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15:15:25	CIA-87	r29693 build result: All green
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15:39:52	PsyBlade	are the garbled Names (eg "Przemys\x{0142}aw Ho\x{0142}ubowski") in the wiki release notes a known issue?
15:40:01	CIA-87	New commit by nls (r29694): Whitespace and cosmetics consistency cleanup in playlist_viewer.c, no functional changes.
15:40:13	n1s	PsyBlade: yep
15:40:37	PsyBlade	sorry didnt find a bugreport
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15:43:32	n1s	PsyBlade: don't think there is one, its probably just someone that edited that page with a browser that decided utf8 was no good
15:43:48	n1s	and noone seems interested in fixing it
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15:44:44	CIA-87	r29694 build result: All green
15:44:53	n1s	if you have a user account in the wiki you can probably fix them yourself
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15:49:57	PsyBlade	I thought it was created by a script containing errors; plus I dont have an acc
15:50:38	n1s	PsyBlade: where do you meant specifically?, the release notes?
15:52:15	n1s	regenerating that list from the source file should be easy
15:52:20	gevaerts	hm, there's a lot wrong there...
15:52:25	*	gevaerts fixes
15:52:45	PsyBlade	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes381
15:53:36	n1s	IIRC those errors have been copied over from earlier release notes to the new ones, i have noticed it before
15:54:36	gevaerts	Should be ok now
15:55:07	*	gevaerts blames AlexP
15:56:40	n1s	first occurence is in the 3.4 release notes
15:57:25	n1s	and then in all the subsequent ones
15:58:22	*	gevaerts doesn't feel very motivated to fix the old ones
15:59:07	n1s	looks like 3.4 was created with the wrong encoding and someone "fixed" it
15:59:12	*	n1s doesn't mention names
15:59:36	n1s	also foswiki doesn't like showing the offending diff
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16:02:18	n1s	heh, the 3.4 release notes went through several different wrong encodings
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16:06:13	gevaerts	I find it interesting that people seem to add names to the list instead of just replacing the list
16:07:21	n1s	gevaerts: lazyness mostly, how did you regenerate it btw?
16:07:46	gevaerts	a bit of sed and tr
16:08:23	n1s	maybe we should create a ReleaseNotesTemplate page and put that command on it
16:08:27	saratoga	i'm troubleshooting this ASM code i wrote, and it causes a hard freeze although the code does not write to memory anywhere except the stack
16:08:32	saratoga	any suggestions on what I should look at
16:08:55	n1s	saratoga: well, the abvious question is if it corrupts the stack
16:09:03	n1s	obvious
16:09:12	saratoga	i copied the code from other ASM blocks that work, so its probably ok
16:09:32	n1s	gevaerts: as i don't think i'm the only one here that would have to read up on woh to use tr
16:10:10	n1s	saratoga: infinite loops?
16:10:37	n1s	it's been a while since i've done any asm but i could take a look if you wanted
16:13:25	saratoga	theres no loop, but i'll pastebin it
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16:14:24	saratoga	n1s: http://paste.ubuntu.com/591258/
16:15:03	saratoga	you can probably ignore the big block of "smulwt" instructions, all they do is mutliply a bunch of constants with no memory writes
16:15:53	saratoga	i commented out the two "str" instructions at the end but it didn't make a difference
16:18:52	n1s	the synth_full_sp thing looks wrong, when restoring sp is set to the adress of synth_full_sp IIUC
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16:19:29	saratoga	crap you're right
16:19:57	saratoga	it wasn't like that before, got mixed up while i was working i guess
16:20:10	saratoga	will test again
16:21:51	saratoga	n1s: thanks, that got it running
16:22:08	n1s	cool
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16:32:50	IronSean	gaverts: I heard about the SOC program on this week's "this week in google" from twit.tv. Chris DiBona was on and mentioning it. I'm sure Rockbox as a community did a good enough job mentioning the opportunity, but I was not actively checking during the last semester to see. I'm a a few google mailing lists, but none which mentioned the GSOC, so it's either up to Google trying to mention it more, or more likely up to me to pay a little more attention to
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16:44:45	saratoga	IronSean: cut off at "more attention to"
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16:46:34	IronSean	More likely up to me to pay a little more attention to some of their blogs and feeds next time.
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16:55:16	thomasjfox	kugel: I'm going to merge your "host_statusbar" branch in my "SDL-windowed-mode" branch the next days
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17:00:31	kugelp	thomasjfox: do what you want with it :-) It's certainly not committable yet, but do you want to take that patch over? I'm busy these days
17:03:08		Quit Pleiadian (Quit: Pleiadian)
17:03:52	thomasjfox	kugelp: Ok, I'll try to polish it some more.
17:04:13	thomasjfox	kugelp: I'll show it to you once it's in a somehow usable and non-buggy state
17:04:24	saratoga	will the gigabeatS charge in bootloader usb mode?
17:05:19	kugelp	thomasjfox: awesome!
17:05:56	[Saint]	thomasjfox: Will you be working on a way to display the native statusbar from now?
17:06:04	[Saint]	if so == awesome ;)
17:06:56	[Saint]	It would be really nice to get it playing correctly with the %w/d/e tags
17:07:10	[Saint]	*%wd/e
17:08:09	saratoga	heh my assembly runs ont he clip+ but segfaults on the gigabeatS
17:08:25	saratoga	is there some difference between armv5e and armv6 with respect to the stack?
17:08:51	Torne	no
17:10:31	thomasjfox	[Saint]: That's the plan
17:11:13	thomasjfox	[Saint]: Though I guess it will take some time...
17:11:16	[Saint]	thomasjfox: Awesome. That would be very nice.
17:11:54	Torne	saratoga: random thought: are you leaving it 8-byte aligned when crossing to/from C code?
17:11:54	AlexP	n1s, gevaerts: Yeah, I just copied old ones and added names. Principalluy as when I do release notes I copy the whole thing from the previous release and then alter it
17:12:09	Torne	not that i guess we use any 64 bit types.
17:12:20	Torne	but it's required by EABI technically
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17:13:40	saratoga	Torne: alignment in this code is a nightmare, and possibly i have made mistakes
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17:14:43	saratoga	are the restrictions for ldrd and ldm different on v6 then v5?
17:14:43	Torne	i don't think so.
17:14:43	Torne	EABI requires that the stack pointer be 8 byte aligned on entry/exit from functions
17:14:43	saratoga	on the clip+ the output is merely corrupted (due to mistakes in my code), if this crash is a clue as to where that'd be nice
17:14:43	n1s	AlexP: yeah, i did the same thing when i did them for a release
17:14:55	Torne	LDM has to be 4-byte aligned, but that's no news; ldrd has to be 8-byte aligned on both
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17:15:21	n1s	gevaerts: maybe you could just put that tr command in acomment on the release notes page?
17:15:24	Torne	Hm, do you have the details of the fault actually? is it an alignment fault? :)
17:15:35	gevaerts	n1s: It's not just a command...
17:15:38		Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
17:15:38	Torne	(we added code to print that on chips that have the required registers, no?)
17:16:06	gevaerts	I removed some lines, added the commas, and then removed the \ns, partly in an editor, partly using sed, and partly using tr
17:16:18	saratoga	maybe i'm not 64 bit aligned somewhere, the manual says thats unpredictable
17:16:24	saratoga	maybe its more unpredictable on v6 :)
17:16:32	Torne	saratoga: Well, if alignment faults are enabled it should fault. on both.
17:16:35	gevaerts	And unless your locale is set up properly for utf8, that will break just the same
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17:16:57	n1s	true
17:16:58	Torne	don't think it's supposed to be unpredictable..
17:17:18	*	Torne looks in the thing.
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17:18:28	Torne	anyway. if it was alignment i would probably expect it to be the other way around
17:18:41	Torne	with alignment checks off armv5 gives you wrong answers, but armv6 gives you right answers slowly
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17:29:12	Poodlemastah	Can someone explain the difference between LCD shutdown and LCD sleep for me? Specifically on iPod devices.
17:30:17	Torne	lcd shutdown happens at poweroff. it turns the lcd off, possibly forever :)
17:30:37	Torne	it's not a feature you see.
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17:30:54	Torne	it's for hardware that wants the LCD/lcd controller to be deactivated in a particular way before cutting the power
17:31:11	Torne	lcd sleeping is a feature lots of targets have where you can turn the lcd off to save power when you aren't using it.
17:31:14	Torne	they are unrelated.
17:31:23	Torne	lcd shutdown is something you have to do on those platforms
17:31:36	Torne	(or at least are strongly advised to do) :)
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17:32:01	Torne	supporting turning the lcd off when you aren't using it requires that we know how to initialise it again afterward, which we may not
17:32:31	Poodlemastah	Ah, makes sense. Feel a bit stupid now but yeah. Great explaination. Thanks. :)
17:33:43	Torne	on different platforms we rely on initialisation done by the original firmware's bootloader to varying degrees :)
17:33:52	Torne	sometimes we don't know how to set a given device up again if we turn it off ;)
17:35:08	*	pamaury has a device which he doesn't now how to turn off since it has a on/off button :)
17:35:55	Ayla	then press that button ;)
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17:51:15	tguinot	just received my i413 dock \o/
17:51:25	tguinot	let's hack a bit
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17:54:03	pixelma	Torne: wanted to tell you because I think I read it wrong from you: the option to separately turn off the display is only there on the colour screen Ipods - where we know how to - because those are the only ones with transflective (I believe it's called) LCDs which are quite readable without backlight. Colour screens of the "pitch black without backlight" turn the display off together with backlight - if we know how to. Monochrome and greyscale
17:54:03	pixelma	screens aren't turned off and don't have the option usually as they are very readable without backlight, except the Clips' OLED screen
17:54:52	Torne	pixelma: right. i didn't mean to imply we didn't do that :)
17:55:39	pixelma	it read to me as if the option is there on all colour screen targets or so
17:55:57	Torne	oh. i didn't mean the option
17:55:59	Torne	i meant the ability
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18:04:30	pixelma	people with enough forum powers: ghdwerge217 wants a ban
18:07:43	gevaerts	pixelma: done
18:07:46	gevaerts	(I think(
18:08:25	pixelma	the spam posts are gone, thanks
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19:15:06	*	skapazzo corrected his gsoc proposal just in time but thinks it is too long.
19:15:17	wtachi	skapazzo: it probably isn't too long
19:15:19	wtachi	(just guessing)
19:16:07	gevaerts	I don't think a proposal can't be too long
19:16:14	gevaerts	(note: I haven't looked at it yet)
19:16:17	skapazzo	wtachi: let's just hope it;s at least somewhat in English
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19:17:00	wtachi	why are all levels of heading the same size? :p
19:17:58	skapazzo	s/;/'
19:19:23	*	skapazzo changed his keyboard to dvorak just before writing his longest text since long=Bad idea
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19:23:28	kugel	is the formatting of my applications ok? I only see it in the small edit widget on the site and it looks a bit messed up (I wrote it in a text editor capping lines to 80 chars)
19:24:29	wtachi	kugel: once you click "Update", you should be sent to the displayed version
19:24:56	kugel	ah right :\
19:25:06	skapazzo	kugel: had the same problem here but it let me see a preview before submitting
19:25:23	skapazzo	was waay too slow
19:25:32	kugel	it looks alright in the displayed version
19:28:28	AlexP	Not long to go chaps :)
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19:33:19	shodan45	can someone confirm or deny that the sansa fuze uses the same physical usb cable plug (not pins, though) as an ipod?
19:33:39	shodan45	I'm trying to figure out if I can use http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10233 with my sansa :)
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19:35:44	IronSean	wtachi: Best of luck with the proposal.
19:36:41	wtachi	IronSean: thanks :)
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19:42:56	wtachi	can anyone review my proposal before the deadline? I'd like some feedback on the "Tasks" section
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19:47:34	AlexP	wtachi: What name is it submitted under?
19:47:41	wtachi	"Standalone audio library"
19:47:55	AlexP	gotcha
19:48:07	AlexP	I couldn't be arsed to click through all of them to find out :)
19:48:22	wtachi	"all of them"? that sounds scary :O
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19:49:04	AlexP	I'm definately not the person to ask about the tasks part :)
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19:49:37	kugel	I pretty much finished my applications
19:49:39	wtachi	okay, thanks anyway
19:49:39	gevaerts	wtachi: the deadline doesn't mean we can't ask for clarifications any more :)
19:50:01	AlexP	yeah, definitely
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19:50:58	wtachi	I know, but the overall plan needs to be good
19:52:35	amiconn	Bagder: ping
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19:52:43	*	Bagder is slightly here
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19:55:27	So	hello, is there someone using rockbox on ipod nano 2nd gen ?
19:55:33	amiconn	Bagder: As I'm just testing IE9 a bit, I came across the issue of the irc log not updating automatically, saying the method is only supported by gecko based browsers
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19:55:45	bertrik	So, TheSeven is :)
19:56:09	amiconn	Is this a new(ish) standard method, which should be supported by sufficiently modern browsers using other engines?
19:56:17	*	TheSeven extends his ears
19:56:19	Bagder	I believe it never worked with IE
19:56:34	AlexP	I thought it was ff only
19:56:37	amiconn	IE9 is quite different and more advanced than any older version
19:56:43	AlexP	Or ff engine derived
19:56:53	So	I can't reboot my player so i can't boot on rockbox
19:57:04	So	Ok :)
19:57:08	amiconn	If so, how could this be tested, as the script deliberately denies it for non-gecko browsers?
19:57:17	Bagder	amiconn: yes, but apparently this trick used for the irc viewer isn't really cross-browser
19:57:28	TheSeven	So: what's the ipod's current state?
19:57:32	pixelma	I read reports that the log live updatin g also doesn't work in FF4 anymore. IIRC Zagor also explained why and that it needs a rewrite
19:57:42	Bagder	amiconn: the script is in the scn www module
19:57:45	Bagder	svn
19:57:57	So	TheSeven can u help me ?
19:58:05	amiconn	Hmm, but I'd need an own server for testing, correct?
19:58:11	gevaerts	amiconn: I believe the irc live update also breaks in firefox 4
19:58:17	Bagder	yes, I believe so
19:58:24	amiconn	Ah, yes it does
19:58:28	pixelma	I forgot the details though, must have been this week
19:58:37	So	It's turned on, apple firmware
19:58:39	Bagder	we can consider it mostly broken by now
19:58:46	amiconn	Hmm, so we should use a different method
19:58:57	AlexP	Yeah, F5 :)
19:59:03	gevaerts	And I remember Zagor (I think it was him...) saying once that it used some gecko-specific (i.e. not standard in any way) thing
19:59:23	Bagder	it's zagor's thing really, I've never touched those parts
19:59:26	*	pixelma feels ignored
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20:00:02	amiconn	gevaerts: Hmm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_technology#HTTP_server_push says it is
20:00:12	gevaerts	amiconn: but does it use that?
20:00:20	amiconn	Introduced by Netscape in 1995
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20:00:38	TheSeven	so: is rockbox already installed on it, or are you only planning to do that?
20:00:54	So	TheSeven: I've tried to reset it pressing SELECT and MENU, but it does not work
20:01:55	amiconn	gevaerts: Looks like it does - see reader.pl
20:02:00	gevaerts	hm
20:02:21	TheSeven	So: why do you want to reset it in the first place?
20:02:53	TheSeven	did you already install rockbox, booted the OF and want to return to rockbox?
20:03:07	TheSeven	that's about the only case (except lockups somewhere) where you would need to do that
20:03:33	TheSeven	and holding menu+select for 5 seconds should always reboot it (well, unless the hold switch is locked of course)
20:03:56	So	TheSeven: already installed
20:05:54	pixelma	amiconn: one hint I found http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20110405#14:05:27 (not sure if it tells much)
20:06:43	So	I just want to shutdown the player to boot on RockBox after
20:07:52	pixelma	and http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20110407#15:00:23 hmm
20:08:57	So	No, player wasn't turned off cause i just can put it in sleep mode
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20:15:45	So	TheSeven: i just had to reinstall the bootloader and now it runs
20:15:51	So	Thanks to you :)
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21:05:38	sanjeev	gsoc proposal done!!
21:05:53	sanjeev	was fun making the proposal :)
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21:06:33	AlexP	good luck all, and thanks for the proposals :)
21:07:03	AlexP	We shall be in touch!
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21:07:48	skapazzo	Good luck to everyone and happy coding however it goes
21:08:09	smk	done with gsoc proposal for buflib. Exciting experience :)
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22:48:55	pamaury	I somehow managed to get the fuze+ in a USB ROM recovery mode \o/
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22:51:59	pamaury	even more incredible is that is seems reproducable !
22:52:11	gevaerts	Nice!
22:52:20	pamaury	Now, will Freescale agree to give me the list of commands "available upon request" ? :)
22:52:57	pamaury	apparently one can send any core through this interface but I don't know of any application using it :-/
22:53:01	pamaury	*code
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22:55:01	pamaury	hum, it is based on HID, the doc says there are 4 HID reports: status in, data in, command out, data out. I wonder what data in would be for
22:55:26	pamaury	does anyone has a contact at freescale ? :D
22:55:55	pamaury	The website doesn't say how I can contact a technical guy
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23:02:00	wodz	pamaury: doesn't Leyra/layra (I can remember the correct spelling) project have such document?
23:02:13	gevaerts	lyra?
23:02:20	gevaerts	Lyre actually
23:02:22	wodz	:-)
23:02:59	pamaury	I doubt it
23:04:39	wodz	btw. I figured out why my flash dump ended prematurely - the nand chip in my rockchip dap uses 4k+218 page size (but in dump code I assumed standard 2k+64)
23:06:20	wodz	this unfortunately means that few hours of dumping is useless
23:07:51	pamaury	done, now let's hope freescale will answer me
23:09:35	wodz	pamaury: unfortunately I wouldn't be too optimistic
23:09:57	pamaury	yeah, I know
23:10:27	wodz	I wonder who invented spare size not in power of 2 :/
23:12:02	IronSean	Yeah, 218 seems like a pretty random value to use
23:13:39	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:15:17	wodz	have anyone here signed NDA with micron by chance?
23:18:41	pamaury	perhaps nano did :)
23:22:54		Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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23:38:27		Quit user890104 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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23:49:10		Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
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23:51:51	CIA-87	New commit by bertrik (r29695): Sansa Clip v2: there's no need to use \|= or &= to manipulate a GPIO for the button light
23:55:38		Quit Keripo1 (Quit: Leaving.)
23:56:11	CIA-87	r29695 build result: All green
23:57:29		Quit L-Strife89 (Quit: Heading back to the dorm.)
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