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| 00:13:47 | * | pamaury wonders if wodz want to brick his device |
| 00:15:20 | wodz | pamaury: not quite - I want to force it into fail safe mode |
| 00:16:04 | wodz | they put 5! copies of bootloader on the flash |
| 00:21:07 | pamaury | lol |
| 00:21:23 | pamaury | are you sure there is recovry mode ? |
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| 00:22:14 | wodz | yes I am sure |
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| 00:39:04 | wodz | When doing block erase what should be the address I should pass? Is this the first row address of the block? |
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| 02:11:35 | indian_curry_lov | hello ppls |
| 02:11:42 | | Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 02:11:55 | indian_curry_lov | i was wondering if anyone knew how to take screen shots of my ipod nano 2g |
| 02:12:44 | | Quit antil33t (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 02:13:33 | indian_curry_lov | i want to upload a theme but dont know how to take sceenshots |
| 02:13:42 | indian_curry_lov | can somebody help??? |
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| 02:17:16 | plz_help_me | hello ppls |
| 02:17:32 | plz_help_me | does anyone know how to take a screenshot of the ipod nano 2g |
| 02:18:01 | plz_help_me | i want to upload a theme but don't know how to take a screenshot |
| 02:19:18 | | Join Gnos [0] (~chatzilla@adsl-68-253-231-58.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) |
| 02:20:17 | Gnos | Hello guys. That voice that always calls-out the battery level just said "Buffer size 50%". I've never heard it call anything but the battery level. What is this? |
| 02:20:17 | | Quit plz_help_me (Client Quit) |
| 02:20:44 | scromple | indian_curry_lov: You might want to take a look at the Simulator for your hardware version. |
| 02:22:07 | scromple | plz_help_me: You might want to take a look at the Simulator for your hardware version. |
| 02:25:09 | scromple | You can run the theme on there and do screen shots... Don't know the key stroke off the top of my head though/ |
| 02:25:16 | JdGordon1 | Gnos: your voice/lang file is out of date |
| 02:28:06 | Gnos | Thanks |
| 02:28:07 | Gnos | exit |
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| 03:26:54 | mishra | saratoga are you there ? |
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| 04:39:28 | byteframe | can I do random Now Playing screen themes? |
| 04:40:52 | JdGordon1 | random in what way? |
| 04:41:24 | byteframe | rockbox would every so often select a differant one at random. |
| 04:42:10 | JdGordon1 | ignoring the obvious question of "why would you want that", sure it could be done |
| 04:42:30 | JdGordon1 | it wont ever get into svn though, maybe as a plugin |
| 04:42:37 | byteframe | I see. |
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| 05:23:43 | | Join kendell [0] (~chatzilla@173.219.27.244) |
| 05:25:35 | kendell | hi. I just bought an iPod fifth gen. looking at the manual I see there are fm radio options. but they don't appear in rockbox. This is because iPods don't have fm tuners built in. but if I buy one and connect it through the dock, can I use it? I looked on the accessories page but couldn't find any |
| 05:26:50 | kendell | accessories page on rockbox wiki, not apple site. |
| 05:30:12 | JdGordon1 | mileage may vary |
| 05:30:22 | JdGordon1 | accessory support kinda sucks at the moment |
| 05:30:28 | kendell | crap |
| 05:30:30 | JdGordon1 | so some will work better than others |
| 05:30:31 | kendell | ah well |
| 05:30:51 | kendell | I see a bunch of speakers and fm transmitters. but no fm tuners |
| 05:32:13 | kendell | am thinking about selling my iPod to get a different player, but I can't find many competitors. most of the newer players rockbox is either not working on or unstable. most of the iriver ports are beyond my price range, 150 and up. the toshibas are reasonably priced but I don't know if it's possible for me to use it because of the touch pad thing |
| 05:32:46 | kendell | there's a gigabeat f, but they're kind of difficuilt to locate smiles |
| 05:33:13 | kendell | arg, not again, rockbox just completely crashed, white screen with heavy hdd spinns. |
| 05:38:23 | kendell | by the way, are there any plans to add voice support to plugins menu, database and debug menu? I'm supposed to stay out of there, but plugins and database would be nice :) is it just the voice files that voice the menu uitems, or is there some sort of API that says, here, speak this, don't speak this? |
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| 06:43:39 | kendell | hi all again. |
| 06:44:19 | kendell | just curious, is it possible to make the rockbox sims accessible to screen readers? was trying out one and couldn't read it with nvda, but could see it. |
| 06:48:18 | JdGordon1 | nope |
| 06:48:31 | JdGordon1 | the sims just draw a bitmap |
| 06:48:39 | kendell | ah. |
| 06:48:54 | kendell | so that's why nvda couldn't figure out what it was looking at |
| 06:49:31 | kendell | am trying to find out why the voice support doesn't ectend into certain parts of the rockbox interface. |
| 06:49:38 | kendell | extend |
| 07:00 |
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| 07:19:35 | JdGordon1 | kendell: which parts? |
| 07:19:52 | JdGordon1 | there are a few abandoned voice patches on the tracker if you're interested |
| 07:19:54 | kendell | JdGordon1: plugins menu, debug menu and database |
| 07:20:28 | JdGordon1 | no voice support in plugins, debug menus dont use the language system, database doesnt use lang system for those strings |
| 07:20:30 | kendell | JdGordon1: sure. I just can't write c c++ |
| 07:20:38 | JdGordon1 | time to learn :) |
| 07:20:47 | JdGordon1 | of those three, the db one is most wanted |
| 07:21:23 | kendell | JdGordon1: so basically the plugins menu will never get it? I'm just curious. I'm not complaining, I just can't access a lot of content because of the plugins and db not working |
| 07:22:24 | kendell | I think I got as far as variables and function calls before I got so confused I had to take a coffee break. then I just never picked it up again smiles |
| 07:22:54 | JdGordon1 | there was a GSoC project a year or two ago to add support but unfortunatly it wasnt finished |
| 07:22:59 | JdGordon1 | to plugins I mean |
| 07:23:26 | kendell | would every plugin had to add support specifically or will there be a universal API taht the plugins use? |
| 07:23:45 | JdGordon1 | I dont remember what the plan was |
| 07:23:58 | kendell | nod, I just meant if it ever gets picked up again. |
| 07:24:45 | kendell | is rockbox supposed to go to a white screen and lock after transferring files to the iPod video? mine has been doing that a lot lately and I have to hard reset. |
| 07:26:23 | JdGordon1 | yes, thats obviously a feature! |
| 07:26:27 | kendell | fifty percent already? oh come on. it's only been off the charger four hours |
| 07:27:28 | kendell | smiles, don't mind me, not trying to complain, I love rockbox. sounds a lot better than stock firmware. tried playing an mp3 on my iPod before transferring rockbox and couldn't stand it |
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| 07:29:50 | kendell | JdGordon1: might be simpler to add a tts, but that's probably difficult, as rockbox is a custon OS |
| 07:37:28 | JdGordon1 | there is a TTS we wanted to add but its gplv3 which causes us problems |
| 07:37:32 | * | JdGordon1 doesnt remember its name |
| 07:38:01 | | Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 07:38:02 | kendell | JdGordon1: couldn't you add espeak? I think that's gplv2? |
| 07:38:22 | kendell | JdGordon1: wait, no, it's not. i think it used to be. it's gplv3 now |
| 07:39:59 | JdGordon1 | thats probably the one then |
| 07:40:11 | JdGordon1 | search our irc logs if you are interested |
| 07:40:28 | kendell | JdGordon1: there are others, but espeak is probably the fastest responsive wise. |
| 07:40:47 | kendell | JdGordon1: there's eloquence and stuff like that but I don't think eloquence is gpl. in fact i don't know if it even has a license |
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| 07:51:06 | CIA-87 | New commit by Buschel (r29708): Fix the Xing header parser to have reliable gapless playback. Closes FS #12062. |
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| 07:54:29 | CIA-87 | r29708 build result: All green |
| 07:54:54 | CIA-87 | New commit by Buschel (r29709): Merge r29708 to v3.8 branch. Fixes gapless playback (FS #12062). |
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| 08:05:55 | kendell | well, there does seem to be a tts goal already in place for GSOC 2011. I just hope it gets implemented |
| 08:06:23 | JdGordon1 | no proposals for it iirc |
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| 08:13:17 | kendell | JdGordon1: not sure about that, I just saw it on the GSOC webpage on the rb wiki. not sure if anyone has taken it up. tha Ipod accessories one would be really great too. I go to walmart with a sheet of paper with my accessory model numbers on it and the walmart person just stares at me. ubh, I'm sorry, we don't carry that. |
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| 09:26:16 | kendell | if you add an fm tuner to the iPod video, will the fm options be available in rockbox? I'd assume not, so how do you operate the radio controls? |
| 09:29:24 | | Join utanapischti [0] (~username@p4FF2D864.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:29:47 | n1s | kendell: i'm pretty sure you control supported radio accessories just like the radio on any other player |
| 09:29:47 | JdGordon1 | you assume wrong |
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| 09:30:53 | kendell | oh sorry. i thought that if the menu items weren't there, they wouldn't show up? or do they show up when a compatible tuner divice is found? |
| 09:31:04 | kendell | device |
| 09:31:11 | n1s | yes they do, it's runtime detected |
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| 09:54:45 | wodz|work | TheSeven: ping |
| 09:56:12 | kendell | ah ok |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:03:09 | TheSeven | wodz|work: pong |
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| 10:06:34 | wodz|work | TheSeven: when issuing erase block to the nand chip what should be the passed address? I mean is it row address (so if there is 128 pages per block I should pass 0, 128, 256 etc)? |
| 10:08:49 | TheSeven | usually yes (on the hardware side) |
| 10:09:00 | TheSeven | how this works on the software side depends on the driver of course |
| 10:10:01 | wodz|work | yes I am talking about bare nand chip without any specialized controller inbetween |
| 10:16:51 | wodz|work | TheSeven: how is work with misterious clip going? |
| 10:19:06 | TheSeven | haven't managed to get it into the right recovery mode yet |
| 10:19:29 | TheSeven | so i'll probably need some rom and possibly flash dumps of working devices to go on with this |
| 10:20:18 | wodz|work | honestly I was very surprised that nobody cared to dump the rom |
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| 10:27:53 | * | TheSeven as well |
| 10:28:03 | TheSeven | apparently hacking that platform was way too easy :P |
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| 12:49:21 | [Saint] | Is RaaA actually using shutdown "propper"? I mean, is the mechanism the same for Rockbox/RaaA? |
| 12:49:46 | [Saint] | Long story short, can I just add "Shotdown" to the main menu in RaaA and expect it to work? |
| 12:49:53 | [Saint] | *Shutdown too |
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| 13:12:07 | smk | was looking at MrSomeone's list. in libfaad.c there is a call to malloc(). rockbox doesn't have an implementation of malloc(). so is libfaad not built with the rest of the source? |
| 13:12:52 | smk | specifically, why is libfaad making a call to malloc() ? how does it work? |
| 13:13:13 | Torne | several codecs/plugins *do* have an implementation of malloc() |
| 13:13:22 | Torne | inside that codec/plugin or in codeclib/pluginlib |
| 13:13:35 | Torne | what that malloc actually does may vary :) |
| 13:15:06 | smk | so the task of making libfaad malloc-free means replacing calls to malloc with some rockbox specific implementation? |
| 13:15:34 | gevaerts | No |
| 13:15:40 | gevaerts | Well, as far as I understand |
| 13:15:59 | gevaerts | The point is to make it not need dynamically allocated memory during operation |
| 13:16:32 | smk | ok. so pre-calculate the amount of memory needed and give that much static memory |
| 13:16:59 | smk | or something to that effect. |
| 13:17:17 | gevaerts | more or less |
| 13:17:24 | gevaerts | Ask a codec specialist for details :) |
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| 13:24:19 | n1s | well, yeah, figure out the worst case amount needed and alloc that statically, if that is an insane amount, try to make it less |
| 13:26:07 | smk | ok. |
| 13:35:00 | n1s | main problem with aac is the mp4 container parser iiuc |
| 13:40:45 | smk | basic question. since libfaad is a library, everything related to libfaad will be under the same directory right?. codecs/libfaad. |
| 13:41:40 | smk | that is , when i am working on it, should i be looking for things elsewhere or would it be wasting time? |
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| 13:44:58 | smk | ok . i will figure that out :) |
| 13:49:16 | | Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 13:49:46 | n1s | smk: that depends on what you mean by "related to" |
| 13:50:47 | n1s | the aac codec is made up of 4 parts, the aac.c file in codecs, libfaad, libm4a and the codeclib |
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| 13:53:35 | smk | what i mean is, if libfaad calls a function, should i assume that the called function is in one of the files in the same directory? |
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| 13:54:20 | smk | calls to libfaad can definitely come from anywhere in the codebase. |
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| 13:57:48 | smk | ok. i will start work on it. if i get stuck , i will contact one of you. |
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| 13:59:54 | n1s | anything can call the codec lib, i don't know if libfaad does that but otherwise libfaad should not call anything. |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:59 | n1s | the toplevel file of each codec usually first hands a chunk of data to the container parser (here libm4a) and then when the results come back they are sent to the decoder (libfaad) |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:02:55 | sideral | gevaerts: Still interested in reading the Rockbox forums over NNTP? |
| 15:04:15 | gevaerts | sideral: I'm interested in making it *possible*, yes :) |
| 15:04:59 | sideral | They're available now (read-only) on news.gwene.org −− look for gwene.org.rockbox.forum.* |
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| 15:21:36 | anonus | hi |
| 15:21:53 | anonus | is there any way to turn off pictureflow completely? |
| 15:22:34 | anonus | including menu items |
| 15:23:28 | [Saint] | Not without editing the source and compiling your own build. |
| 15:24:07 | [Saint] | It's pretty easy to just "not use it" though. |
| 15:24:17 | [Saint] | WHat, can I ask, does removing it gain you? |
| 15:24:21 | [Saint] | *What |
| 15:24:46 | anonus | through ../tools/confugure i can do that ? |
| 15:24:53 | [Saint] | No. |
| 15:26:06 | anonus | and if I undefine HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION ? |
| 15:26:23 | [Saint] | Then that will remove pictureflow integration. |
| 15:26:29 | [Saint] | but not pictureflow. |
| 15:26:45 | anonus | and then I will delete pictureflow.rock |
| 15:26:46 | [Saint] | that should take care of most of the orphaned menus though. |
| 15:26:47 | gevaerts | But then you can remove pictureflow by, well, removing it |
| 15:27:13 | anonus | okay... |
| 15:27:18 | anonus | another question |
| 15:27:39 | anonus | i want to write some postprocessing plugin... |
| 15:28:01 | anonus | like replygain |
| 15:28:26 | anonus | where should i start ? |
| 15:29:44 | Torne | there is no way to do that at present |
| 15:29:57 | gevaerts | Well, not as a plugin anyway |
| 15:30:08 | anonus | yea, i understand |
| 15:30:09 | [Saint] | Oh...if you really care about removing all the menu entries for pictureflow, you'll probably want to look at the HOTKEY code as well. |
| 15:30:29 | [Saint] | HOTKEY expects pictureflow to be present. |
| 15:30:34 | anonus | it is not a 'rock' file, but part of code compiled into firmware |
| 15:30:35 | gevaerts | It does? |
| 15:30:57 | anonus | [Saint]: thanks |
| 15:31:00 | gevaerts | [Saint]: even if HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION isn't defined? |
| 15:31:06 | gevaerts | That sounds like a bug |
| 15:31:15 | [Saint] | Yeah, I seem to remember it does. It's an option for it, I don't think there's targets with hotkey but without PF |
| 15:31:47 | [Saint] | HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION is just for the WPS, not hotkey iiuc |
| 15:31:47 | | Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 15:32:15 | Torne | yes, you probably do understand correctly but that's still a bug |
| 15:32:19 | Torne | :) |
| 15:32:55 | gevaerts | As far as I can see it does depend on HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION |
| 15:33:38 | anonus | if I take replygain.c as basis for my post-processor, can I access mic from there ? or it will be complicated ? |
| 15:34:31 | * | anonus has sansa clip+ |
| 15:36:31 | [Saint] | Hmmm, it does indeed. Perhaps I remember this from before hotkey was added to svn, or during one of its many overhauls. |
| 15:41:58 | anonus | anyone ? |
| 15:42:16 | [Saint] | lol. .levels files are built for RaaA |
| 15:43:15 | gevaerts | anonus: I suspect it's not going to be easy. There's no support in rockbox for using the audio codec in full duplex mode |
| 15:44:20 | anonus | i don't want to encode sound to file, i just want to get samples from mic |
| 15:45:03 | Torne | There's still no support for using the audio codec in full duplex mode |
| 15:45:11 | Torne | It doesn't matter what you're going to do with the samples |
| 15:45:28 | anonus | hm |
| 15:46:11 | gevaerts | The hardware may (or may not, for all I know) support it, but you'll have to expose that support |
| 15:46:46 | anonus | okay |
| 15:47:33 | anonus | i'll try ;) |
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| 15:51:27 | n1s | at least some players hw support duplex iirc you can start the instrument tuner plugin while playback is running or something |
| 15:51:45 | n1s | in fact, i'll try that |
| 15:53:04 | n1s | hm, nope, it stops playbak |
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| 15:54:47 | n1s | hm, it plays only a hiss for some reason but definitely not nothing |
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| 16:14:41 | [Saint] | Assuming I am generating valid builds (240x320 works OK on my handset), can someone explain to me please how it is that the 480x800 .apk is *smaller* then the 240x320 .apk I have built? |
| 16:15:29 | [Saint] | I would expect the only difference to be a few values regarding screen dimensions, and the images themselves. The images should mean that the 480x800 is naturally the larger of the two. |
| 16:16:37 | [Saint] | but in builds I have just made (several times, including a new source checkout in case there was weirdness in my tree) the 480x800 build is 3.1MB, and the 240x320 build is 3.2MB |
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| 16:29:14 | amiconn | [Saint]: Check which fonts are included in both builds. Maybe the 240x320 includes some large font files |
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| 16:48:48 | [Saint] | amiconn: very clever ;) |
| 16:50:21 | [Saint] | Also, it shows something kinda weird. Well, not necessarily weird but inconsistent. The 480x800 build gets 35 Helvetica, whereas the 240x320 build gets 15 Helvetica, 16 GNU Unifont, and 19 Nimbus |
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| 16:50:59 | [Saint] | not including 16 GNU unifont in the 240x320 build cuts out a (quite considerable) 1.8MB |
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| 16:51:44 | [Saint] | so, I'm all for not building with it, especially as I made some nice AA fonts that would be perfect for giving each RaaA size it's own font to ship with. |
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| 17:05:51 | amiconn | [Saint]: So far unifont is the only one that covers all languages, so I'd rather leave that included on all targets where it makes sense (i.e. isn't too large or too small) |
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| 17:08:39 | [Saint] | Ok...I guess I buy that, I wasn't really looking at it with translation in mind. |
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| 17:09:01 | [Saint] | The other two fonts are indeed unnecessary. |
| 17:09:32 | | Quit L-Strife89 (Client Quit) |
| 17:09:40 | [Saint] | small enough to not really matter, but...not at all needed, so shouldn't be there. |
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| 17:11:18 | amiconn | The packager only includes fonts which are referenced by themes |
| 17:11:39 | | Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:11:43 | amiconn | So if they're included, they are used by at least one theme |
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| 17:13:54 | [Saint] | which leads to "we need to not package anything other than the default theme" |
| 17:14:17 | [Saint] | as if a user puts a custom theme on the .cfg, they won't be able to use the shipped themes anyway. |
| 17:14:17 | | Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 17:14:29 | [Saint] | seems a little busted, but it is how it is. |
| 17:14:42 | [Saint] | s/.cfg/sd/ |
| 17:15:37 | [Saint] | I had forgotten about other themes being included in RaaA because of this fact. |
| 17:21:00 | [Saint] | Hmmm...yes, 15 Helvetica is used by the 240x320 cabbie, and the other two fonts GNU Unifont and 19 Nimbus are used by the other shipped themes, the real damagi is done by GNU Unifont. |
| 17:21:14 | [Saint] | "damage" being vastly increased .apk size. |
| 17:22:28 | n1s | why is the size of the apk a problem? |
| 17:22:54 | [Saint] | it's already huge. |
| 17:23:20 | [Saint] | why have 1.8MB of that be a font you can't even use if you have a custom theme on the sd (you probably will) |
| 17:23:44 | [Saint] | RaaA is ~18MB installed. |
| 17:23:55 | [Saint] | in terms of android apps, that's *massive* |
| 17:24:39 | | Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93) |
| 17:25:06 | [Saint] | It's safer to assume that a user *will* install a custom theme at some point, and shipping a seperate "theme pack" with the (currently) shipped themes in it. |
| 17:25:11 | | Quit antil33t () |
| 17:25:47 | [Saint] | though as I understand it, it was always the intention to remove all the additional shipped themes from the distributed binaries except cabbiev2 |
| 17:26:13 | n1s | yeah i think we have intended to do that for quite a while |
| 17:26:29 | n1s | but that sd card business sounds broken |
| 17:26:57 | [Saint] | There's no place right now where that makes more sense than RaaA, because at least with the other targets using another theme doesn't restrict access tothe shipped ones. |
| 17:27:03 | [Saint] | *to the |
| 17:28:42 | n1s | yeah but that sounds like a separate issue that should be fixed |
| 17:30:38 | [Saint] | I don't believe it can be. |
| 17:31:52 | n1s | how wonderful |
| 17:31:54 | [Saint] | Or rather, I believe there is a reason it is this way, though I can only speculate as to what that reason is ;) |
| 17:38:12 | | Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@ppp-200-133.98-62.inwind.it) |
| 17:38:21 | | Quit ender| (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 17:40:12 | | Join ender [0] (krneki@84.255.206.8) |
| 17:40:19 | | Quit ender` (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 17:40:37 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 17:42:11 | | Join ender| [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
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| 17:47:50 | | Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 17:50:31 | TheLemonMan | pamaury: ping |
| 17:51:16 | | Join smk [0] (~smk@61.17.193.221) |
| 17:51:39 | pamaury | TheLemonMan: pong but have to leave out the court :) |
| 17:52:15 | TheLemonMan | hah perfect timing, are you coming back sometimes soon ? |
| 17:52:25 | pamaury | half an hour |
| 17:52:46 | pamaury | I realized I couldn't try your openbltc because the only program provide not immediate feedback with your method :) brb |
| 17:53:25 | TheLemonMan | kk, ill be here :) |
| 17:53:26 | | Join u42p [0] (~v35b@d053077.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 17:54:11 | TheLemonMan | in the meanwhile, is there any hardware guru floating around ? |
| 17:55:55 | | Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 17:56:40 | n1s | TheLemonMan: it's usually better to just ask your question do if someone who sees it knows the answer they can answer |
| 17:57:20 | | Part u42p |
| 17:57:41 | TheLemonMan | whats the bare minimum hw to setup ? |
| 17:58:02 | | Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 17:58:48 | funman | TheLemonMan: starting with LCD/backlight helps further debugging |
| 17:59:22 | TheLemonMan | not even ram/lradc/battery ? |
| 17:59:57 | n1s | TheLemonMan: it depends on where your code starts and what is already set up and the specifics of the hw |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:13 | TheLemonMan | im running on bare metal |
| 18:00:19 | | Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) |
| 18:00:52 | n1s | TheLemonMan: no other bootloader or anything? |
| 18:00:53 | saratoga | mishra: (for the logs) back now |
| 18:00:58 | funman | TheLemonMan: if your code is running from ROM then no need for ram, and if you're plugging it on power no need for battery/adc |
| 18:01:17 | funman | aren't you working on fuze+? |
| 18:02:04 | TheLemonMan | its another player using (quite) the same board |
| 18:03:38 | funman | first thing IMO is to get some feedback from your code and having LCD working |
| 18:03:46 | funman | .. helps that greatly |
| 18:05:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:05:46 | | Quit d314 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 18:07:51 | | Quit t0rc (Quit: Give someone code, help them with one project. Teach someone to code, help them rule the world.) |
| 18:07:57 | | Quit toffe82 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]) |
| 18:12:23 | | Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 18:45:00 | | Part mem_ |
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| 18:51:45 | | Nick icarusfactor is now known as factor (~factor@75.108.68.114) |
| 18:51:46 | pamaury | having lcd working is nice but can be non-trivial |
| 18:52:27 | TheLemonMan | im giving up at reversing the bootloader, it has too much unknown writes/reads |
| 18:52:53 | pamaury | really ? at which addresses ? |
| 18:53:01 | pamaury | perhaps it uses the mmu |
| 18:53:36 | TheLemonMan | for example it has functions to get a bit off a 2-bit field |
| 18:53:43 | * | [Saint] managed to reduce the size of the RaaAoA 240x320 .apk by .2MB compressed and ~2.3MN extracted by removing "non-essential" files. |
| 18:53:59 | [Saint] | *s/MN/MB/ |
| 18:54:39 | pamaury | TheLemonMan: I don't understand, that's a pure software thing, all the hardware is documented no ? |
| 18:54:59 | pamaury | how do you plan to have the lcd working for example ? |
| 18:55:14 | TheLemonMan | it looks to me that the 3700 doesnt fully matches the imx23 |
| 18:56:17 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:56:35 | pamaury | did you ask freescale ? |
| 18:57:28 | TheLemonMan | nope, but i guess they wont answer/give datasheets |
| 18:57:35 | | Quit sinthetek (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 18:58:47 | [Saint] | Oops. 240x320 .spk "stock" == 3.2MB, "bare essentials" == 2.6MB, and I'm pretty sure I could cut out more if I wanted to (only an additonal ~200kb or so, so not really worth it). |
| 18:58:48 | pamaury | my guess would be that 3780 == imx233 is an evolution of 3700 and thus includes it |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:11 | TheLemonMan | so, how would you explain all those strange access ? |
| 19:00:25 | [Saint] | GodEater_: Do I remember correctly that you were looking at ways to decrease the size of the RaaA .apk? |
| 19:00:48 | pamaury | TheLemonMan: do you have an example address ? |
| 19:01:14 | AlexP | [Saint]: If you mean the discussion I was also part of, then you mean bluebrother I think |
| 19:01:43 | [Saint] | Ah, thanks for that AlexP. |
| 19:01:55 | TheLemonMan | pamaury: BIT(HW_POWER_LOOPCTRL, 13) |
| 19:01:57 | [Saint] | They've both been pinged now, so, bases covered ;) |
| 19:02:13 | TheLemonMan | as you can see from the docs it's getting the high bit of a 2bit field |
| 19:02:46 | | Join Keripo1 [0] (~Keripo@eng107.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 19:03:41 | GodEater_ | [Saint]: not me - at least, if I was, I don't remember why. :) |
| 19:03:52 | pamaury | ok, but on this precise exemple, that could be a hack |
| 19:04:09 | GodEater_ | ah good, was bluebrother |
| 19:04:12 | GodEater_ | thank goodness |
| 19:04:16 | GodEater_ | thought I was going senile then |
| 19:04:17 | [Saint] | GodEater_: Sorry about that, AlexP was indeed on the ball there. |
| 19:04:33 | GodEater_ | say may argue I *am* senile anyway however ;) |
| 19:04:37 | GodEater_ | s/say/some/ |
| 19:04:49 | | Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@cpe-174-111-021-024.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 19:04:49 | | Quit sinthetek (Changing host) |
| 19:04:49 | | Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@unaffiliated/sinthetek) |
| 19:04:54 | TheLemonMan | but doesnt make any sense at all even if it was an hack |
| 19:04:59 | | Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:470:28:773:babe:feed:dead:bee) |
| 19:05:25 | | Quit rasher (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 19:05:43 | pamaury | well yes, it tells if EN_RCSCALE is either 4 or 8 |
| 19:05:57 | | Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:06:15 | pamaury | since the meaning of EN_RCSCALE is unclear from the beginning, that's not a real problem |
| 19:07:18 | | Join GodEater [0] (~bibble@5ad2c191.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:07:18 | | Quit GodEater (Changing host) |
| 19:07:18 | | Join GodEater [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 19:07:29 | pamaury | you don't need to understand everything. Of course, if everything is like that, that might be a problem |
| 19:07:38 | pamaury | :) |
| 19:07:44 | TheLemonMan | meh, if only i had a disassembler |
| 19:08:25 | pamaury | what are you using ? |
| 19:08:30 | [Saint] | 2.8MB shaved off the "installed" size. |
| 19:08:30 | | Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 19:08:30 | * | AlexP hands TheLemonMan a hammer |
| 19:08:33 | [Saint] | not too shabby. |
| 19:08:41 | AlexP | [Saint]: Indeed not |
| 19:08:47 | AlexP | What came out? |
| 19:08:56 | [Saint] | themes and fonts. |
| 19:09:18 | AlexP | Good plan, we should just ship cabbie and the needed font |
| 19:09:34 | | Quit GodEater_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 19:09:34 | TheLemonMan | pamaury: ida pro, but i translate every bit to C code by hand |
| 19:09:40 | [Saint] | there's a few more "odds&ends", but they only amount to ~200kb uncompressed. |
| 19:10:06 | AlexP | That's still quite a bit in android terms |
| 19:10:12 | pamaury | keep it in assembly and use the features of ida pro |
| 19:10:24 | TheLemonMan | s/disassembler/decompiler/ |
| 19:10:31 | [Saint] | true. I'm wondering if librockbox.so is ever used after the initial installation. |
| 19:10:55 | [Saint] | and if not, if the installation should kill it after it's needed. |
| 19:11:22 | pamaury | TheLemonMan: how large is the code ? |
| 19:11:50 | bertrik | Do we have some kind of framework to handle dock detection? |
| 19:11:52 | TheLemonMan | 14.6kb the first part that does just hw setup |
| 19:12:20 | TheLemonMan | 111.1kb the second part that setups the nand/screen/touchpad and loads the linux kernel |
| 19:12:24 | bertrik | Like handling dock detection as a kind of button, or like headphone detection? |
| 19:13:09 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng107.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 19:13:31 | pamaury | 111Kb begins to be a bunch of code, for sure, but patience is the key point :) |
| 19:14:14 | | Join factor [0] (~factor@75.108.68.114) |
| 19:14:55 | TheLemonMan | i get nervous even with the smaller one |
| 19:15:17 | | Quit Keripo1 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 19:15:32 | pamaury | why ? |
| 19:16:07 | TheLemonMan | tons of unintresting stuff related to ac/dc converters |
| 19:16:41 | pamaury | sure, but by reversing lots of unteresting of trivial stuff, you end up reversing mountains |
| 19:16:53 | bertrik | I'd hope the ac/dc converter stuff is fixed in hardware, too risky to get it wrong |
| 19:17:56 | TheLemonMan | meh, this player already flied back to samsung 5-6 times because i flashed it wrong |
| 19:19:32 | TheLemonMan | pamaury: have you tried using my tool ? |
| 19:19:42 | | Join wraithgar [0] (~Gar@owt-64-146-237-60.owt.com) |
| 19:20:50 | pamaury | no, because the only feedback I have for now (I didn't try too hard honestly) is disconnecting usb. Indeed, after the interrupt xfer, usb is still connected but my code is loaded so it's feedback. With your tool, it won't work, so I won't have feedback |
| 19:20:55 | pamaury | I need to write more code |
| 19:21:42 | pamaury | I plan to write a usb driver firstr |
| 19:22:05 | | Quit JackWinter (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 19:22:48 | TheLemonMan | mmh, is ram already initialized by the usb bootloader ? |
| 19:23:18 | | Join Keripo1 [0] (~Keripo@eng107.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 19:23:26 | pamaury | I don't know |
| 19:23:46 | pamaury | In any case, I have the code from the fuze+ firmware to do this :) |
| 19:24:14 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 19:24:17 | TheLemonMan | no weird things in it ? |
| 19:24:40 | | Join mshathlonxp [0] (~msh@5acba0d5.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:25:04 | pamaury | no, it's writing lots of values to lots of dram registers and doing lots of power related things. I concluded the code is insane but working :) |
| 19:25:41 | pamaury | Actually, the fuze+ firmware has 3 hw init stages before having a 4th stage doing the actually loading (I think) |
| 19:25:47 | TheLemonMan | so you just copypaste it ? |
| 19:26:29 | pamaury | I don't need to, if I want I can just extract an elf file from the sb file which contain this code and then include it with elftosb |
| 19:26:34 | | Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 19:26:56 | | Part wraithgar ("Leaving") |
| 19:26:59 | pamaury | (the sbinfo tool in our trunk procude one elf file per "subsection" of the sb file) |
| 19:27:26 | TheLemonMan | thats what i meant :) the only downside is that you dont have full control over the hw |
| 19:28:01 | pamaury | honestly, I don't want to master the sdram init, it's not really interesting |
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| 19:28:17 | pamaury | I can always tweak the registers later |
| 19:29:01 | pamaury | also I didn't check if the values of the firmware match the one in the table of the imx23 doc |
| 19:29:13 | pamaury | perhaps they optimized it for this particular sdram |
| 19:29:16 | TheLemonMan | various access to HW_CLKCTRL_TV :| |
| 19:29:20 | | Join rasher [0] (~rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 19:29:21 | saratoga | usually we let the OF bootloaders/ROMs setup the hardware, and just tweak it later if needed |
| 19:29:40 | saratoga | no sense setting up hardware yourself if the OF will do it for you (and more then likely do it correctly) |
| 19:30:10 | TheLemonMan | so the plan is to skip the first bootloader stage and jump on the second directly ? |
| 19:32:50 | | Join JackWinter [0] (~jack@vodsl-9173.vo.lu) |
| 19:33:05 | pamaury | well, *my* plan is to understand the things I can't invent: lcd init, touchpad control, buttons, backlight. Then, I'll defer all the init code to the OF (if needed) (by copying the code from it using the trick I described) and take control after it |
| 19:33:17 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng107.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 19:34:37 | pamaury | I need to leave, good luck with your disassembly |
| 19:36:15 | | Quit Keripo1 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 19:36:47 | TheLemonMan | heh thanks :) have a nice day |
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| 19:44:00 | bertrik | the rockbox manual has a copyright statement that goes only up to 2010 |
| 19:46:34 | | Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:52:55 | bertrik | "However before beginning there are a few things it is important to know." from the manual (chapter 2 - installation) doesn't sound quite right |
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| 19:56:21 | | Quit Keripo1 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 19:56:50 | n1s | bertrik: s/it is/that are/ ? |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:02:24 | AlexP | few important things to know |
| 20:02:41 | AlexP | or what n1s said |
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| 20:03:06 | * | linuxstb goes with AlexP's version |
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| 20:05:45 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 20:25:31 | [Saint] | Hmmm...odd. |
| 20:26:10 | [Saint] | removing 2.6ish MB of files from the .zip before it gets .apk'd == ~4MB of savings in the "installed" size. |
| 20:27:36 | | Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 20:27:44 | [Saint] | trimming the "fat" is *definitely* worth it, especially for the 240x320 build as it's (un)lucky enough to share a resolution with existing targets so gets all the "usual suspects" added in with the .zip/.apk |
| 20:28:56 | [Saint] | also, what do we consider "default" in relation to the theme? |
| 20:29:03 | [Saint] | it *is* cabbiev2? |
| 20:31:01 | [Saint] | I ask that because "rockbox_default_icons" doesn't use the tango! iconset that cabbie uses, and I consider cabbiev2 to be the "default" personally. |
| 20:32:11 | | Quit Keripo1 (Quit: Leaving.) |
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| 20:35:09 | bertrik | AlexP, thanks, I'll fix that |
| 20:36:14 | TheLemonMan | it's normal to send a long sequence of commands to an lcd controller ? |
| 20:36:23 | bertrik | yes |
| 20:36:47 | | Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) |
| 20:37:00 | bertrik | usually, it takes a few tens of commands to initialise the lcd |
| 20:37:20 | TheLemonMan | so, yay, ive nearly reversed all the lcd init |
| 20:38:39 | | Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 20:40:58 | bluebrother | [Saint]: the thing that annoys me is that (as far as I understand) Rockbox extracts a libmisc.so (which is a rockbox.zip) from its data directory to the data directory so it ends up there twice. |
| 20:41:15 | bluebrother | on my device I see around 8MiB used for data. Which is a bit much |
| 20:41:30 | bluebrother | and I can delete libmisc.so afterwards. At least it still works for me. |
| 20:41:37 | bertrik | TheLemonMan, you can probably find other interesting lcd functions in the vicinity of that |
| 20:41:58 | [Saint] | bluebrother: Is the installation process capable of this cleanup? |
| 20:42:17 | [Saint] | I don't think any of my savings would apply to your handset (maybe, what res is it?) |
| 20:42:34 | bluebrother | [Saint]: well, I tried changing the startup code to delete the file after extraction but this didn't seem to work. |
| 20:42:50 | bluebrother | but I have to admit that I have no idea about java so I might be doing something wrong here :) |
| 20:43:22 | bluebrother | another question: why does Rockbox extract it to /data/data/org.rockbox and not to /sdcard/rockbox? AFAIK it uses /sdcard/rockbox too |
| 20:44:07 | | Join evilnick_B [0] (0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 20:44:18 | bluebrother | hmm, seems Rockbox can't load codec files from sdcard :( |
| 20:44:29 | [Saint] | Hmmm. I found something that simple doesn't add up. I removed ~2.6MB (uncompressed) of files from the .zip, which resulted in an .apk which was .6MB smaller...but the installed size was ~4MB in savings. |
| 20:44:46 | bluebrother | strange |
| 20:44:57 | [Saint] | I agree. |
| 20:45:28 | bluebrother | basically I have two questions: (1) why package rockbox.zip inside of a libmisc.so and then extract it? Is it not possible to have the contents of rockbox.zip directly in the apk? |
| 20:46:25 | bluebrother | (2) why not extract it to /sdcard/rockbox? The internal space is much more limited than the sdcard, and requiring an sdcard to run is sensible IMO −− you don't have much usable space to store your music on the internal flash anyway. |
| 20:47:11 | [Saint] | Are there many android devices that *don't* have sd? |
| 20:47:54 | [Saint] | forget many, are there any? |
| 20:48:38 | CIA-87 | New commit by bertrik (r29710): Manual: rephrase a sentence in the installation chapter a bit |
| 20:48:51 | bluebrother | no idea |
| 20:49:02 | [Saint] | You're quite correct though, even if there is, internal space is limited enough to safely assume the device will have/be using external storage if it's intention is a DAP |
| 20:49:52 | | Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 20:50:18 | [Saint] | "average joe" couldn't write to the internal storage anyway iiuc. |
| 20:51:28 | [Saint] | so yeah, I'd say assuming an sd is present on Android and writing as much to it as possible is entirely sane, though I'm looking at that whilst not being aware of all the limitations. |
| 20:52:11 | bluebrother | same here :) |
| 20:52:38 | CIA-87 | r29710 build result: All green |
| 20:53:36 | bluebrother | the main problem is that my phone told me it's out of internal memory, otherwise I wouldn't be bothered by that :) |
| 20:53:48 | bertrik | oh, I thought commits to the manual didn't trigger a build |
| 20:54:02 | bluebrother | they do, since the build system rework |
| 20:54:04 | | Quit bieber_ (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:54:14 | bluebrother | (as do Rockbox Utility commits :) |
| 20:54:16 | | Join mystica555 [0] (~mike@71-208-217-27.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 20:59:26 | TheSeven | hm, so does anyone have a clip+ rom dump for me? |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:32 | bertrik | no, I don't, but I could put some effort in it |
| 21:01:14 | [Saint] | TheSeven: Guess you're surprised no one ever did it while they had the opportunity to too huh? |
| 21:01:43 | TheSeven | as i said, porting rockbox to that platform was apparently way too easy :P |
| 21:02:59 | [Saint] | It pains me when people follow the unbricking page on the wii, then come here and are like "well, what now?" |
| 21:03:00 | bertrik | do we have something to dump it already/ |
| 21:03:09 | funman | TheSeven: the ROM isn't a lot more interesting than the OF itself |
| 21:03:10 | [Saint] | "well, you dump an OF image on there" |
| 21:03:24 | [Saint] | "where do I get it?".."I dunno, your problem" |
| 21:03:25 | funman | bertrik: the debug menu has code to dump the ROM already but for other targets |
| 21:03:31 | TheSeven | funman: it definitely is, as far as recovery methods are concerned |
| 21:03:43 | funman | good point |
| 21:04:08 | bertrik | I think it is unfortunate the unbrick page says to unsolder the battery connection |
| 21:04:11 | funman | bertrik: let me look at this, i haven't touched rockbox for some time |
| 21:04:13 | TheSeven | i have u42p's bugger sitting here on my desk, and no matter what i do, it refuses to the right enter recovery mode |
| 21:04:17 | bertrik | that's really a measure of absolute resort IMO |
| 21:04:23 | TheSeven | s/the right enter/enter the right/ |
| 21:04:48 | bertrik | *last resort |
| 21:04:50 | TheSeven | bertrik: what is that supposed to achieve? |
| 21:05:07 | TheSeven | if the device fails to power off by holding power? |
| 21:05:16 | [Saint] | bertrik: in the same respect, you don't want people poking about at random pads on a powered device. |
| 21:05:17 | TheSeven | or when does one need to do that? |
| 21:05:18 | bertrik | to make really sure that it's powered off I guess |
| 21:05:37 | TheSeven | well, one can do that by other means as well |
| 21:05:50 | [Saint] | how? |
| 21:06:05 | TheSeven | press power briefly, wait a second, then hold power for 10 seconds |
| 21:06:10 | [Saint] | the players can get into some wicked locked up states. |
| 21:06:10 | TheSeven | after that, it will always be off |
| 21:06:13 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 21:06:16 | [Saint] | *s/the/those/ |
| 21:06:31 | TheSeven | well, mine doesn't seem to be one of those then |
| 21:06:39 | [Saint] | wait ;) |
| 21:07:50 | [Saint] | That method breaks if the player is in some infinite loop and it's not registering the power button. |
| 21:08:20 | TheSeven | IIUC holding the power button is registered by hardware means like menu+select on the ipods |
| 21:08:27 | [Saint] | this has happened to more than a few people as I understand it, meaning the battery needed to be disconnected by the impatient, or the player left to completely discharge. |
| 21:08:55 | | Join bieber_ [0] (~quassel@node77.seg44.ucf.edu) |
| 21:09:16 | [Saint] | the forums has many a tale of people needed to wait several days to recover from a lockup. |
| 21:10:15 | funman | bertrik: http://pastie.org/1792426 (untested) |
| 21:10:44 | bertrik | I'm working on the dump |
| 21:10:54 | TheSeven | funman: the path probably needs a leading slash? |
| 21:13:27 | | Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54B67771.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:13:28 | funman | TheSeven: true |
| 21:14:15 | bertrik | I think I got it, at least I see a couple of E5 at the start of the file |
| 21:14:29 | bertrik | I dumped 128 kB starting from 0x8000.0000 |
| 21:15:25 | bertrik | TheSeven, where can I send it? |
| 21:15:45 | TheSeven | 0x80000000 or 0xc0000000? |
| 21:15:47 | TheSeven | funman? |
| 21:15:56 | funman | i think it's both |
| 21:16:18 | TheSeven | well, dumping both can't hurt :) |
| 21:16:44 | funman | well both addresses are mirrors |
| 21:16:50 | TheSeven | ok |
| 21:16:56 | bertrik | I also see some texts like "Divide By Zero", possibly from some C support lib |
| 21:17:20 | TheSeven | bertrik: either upload it at e.g. datafilehost.com and send me the link, or email it to my nickname at freemyipod dot org |
| 21:18:08 | bertrik | TheSeven, http://www.datafilehost.com/download-459e3763.html |
| 21:18:45 | TheSeven | ok, got it, you should take it down again for legal reasons :) |
| 21:19:42 | TheSeven | at which memory address is the internal ram? |
| 21:19:48 | TheSeven | and how big is it? |
| 21:20:19 | bertrik | TheSeven, I think it starts at 0x0, it's 128 kByte |
| 21:20:52 | | Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 21:21:41 | bertrik | TheSeven, I assume this from reading the as3525 datasheet (which might not be applicable to the clip+) |
| 21:22:21 | TheSeven | what kind of memory area is at 0x810FE000? |
| 21:22:37 | TheSeven | the bootrom zeroes that very early, as far as i can tell before setting up the sdram? |
| 21:22:59 | TheSeven | and also 0x810EB000 |
| 21:23:11 | funman | IRAMiram? |
| 21:23:28 | TheSeven | aha, stacks in there, so ram, yes |
| 21:23:42 | funman | iram is 0x100000 bytes on clip+ and starts at 0x81000000 |
| 21:24:15 | bertrik | TheSeven, get the as3525 datasheet! :) |
| 21:24:52 | TheSeven | i think i have that somewhere |
| 21:25:01 | TheSeven | but i'm not yet used to it :P |
| 21:25:41 | | Join Quendall [0] (~kendall@190.202.91.210) |
| 21:29:52 | TheSeven | bertrik, funman: what's the actual base address of the mmc controller that's connected to the internal emmc? |
| 21:31:29 | | Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201) |
| 21:31:34 | | Part Quendall |
| 21:31:35 | TheSeven | which datasheet matches it better? as3525 or as3543? |
| 21:33:32 | funman | as3525 |
| 21:33:37 | funman | as3543 is only for audio/pmu |
| 21:34:57 | funman | TheSeven: on AMSv2 the base address for SD controller is 0xC6070000, there is only one controller for embedded storage and µSD slot iiuc |
| 21:35:15 | funman | but it's not part of the as3525 (i.e. not mentioned in the datasheet) |
| 21:35:46 | funman | and you should ask the OF disassembly from someone because large parts of the ROM are identical |
| 21:35:47 | | Quit t0rc (Client Quit) |
| 21:36:35 | | Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201) |
| 21:39:48 | bertrik | I see some code looking at GPIO B5 and GPIO C1,C2 |
| 21:40:25 | bertrik | funman, in our sd code, we have to enable 3 devices to get sd to work |
| 21:41:06 | | Quit t0rc (Client Quit) |
| 21:41:43 | | Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201) |
| 21:42:27 | bertrik | GPIO B4 is connected the "unbrick pin", C1 and C2 are connected to the menu and play button respectively |
| 21:44:00 | | Quit rdd (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:44:21 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 21:46:08 | | Quit GuySoft (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:51:03 | | Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
| 21:52:57 | | Join Xerion [0] (~xerion@5419A4D7.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 21:53:07 | TheSeven | funman, bertrik: anyone seen a firmware image format that has the entry point address relative to the start of the image at offset 0x8? |
| 21:55:18 | bertrik | no |
| 21:56:06 | bertrik | I guess the first 64 bytes or so in the rom image is the vector table and I think vector 0 is the reset vector |
| 21:56:27 | TheSeven | yeah, but i found some code that executes such a thing |
| 22:00 |
| 22:04:52 | bertrik | hm, I see a text "M200Plus" |
| 22:05:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:06:24 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng321.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 22:06:56 | funman | iiuc you see that in recovery mode (on the USB host) |
| 22:07:01 | funman | s/u/r/ |
| 22:11:03 | | Join jordan` [0] (gromit@2a01:e34:eebf:c890:21a:4dff:fe63:6966) |
| 22:17:32 | TheLemonMan | i currently have init_video, init_video_looped, init_video_the_clone and init_video_the_revenge |
| 22:17:53 | TheLemonMan | never been good at naming stuff :/ |
| 22:19:12 | | Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@128.135.100.102) |
| 22:20:13 | funman | TheLemonMan: is backlight working on your board? |
| 22:20:52 | TheLemonMan | im still reversing atm but backlit is handled by pwm0 wich i havent touched yet |
| 22:22:54 | | Join antil33t [0] (antil33t@124-197-51-80.callplus.net.nz) |
| 22:24:28 | | Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:28:13 | TheLemonMan | anyway, if anyone has a board that supports the BLTC protocol please contact me |
| 22:30:26 | | Join JesusFreak316 [0] (~JesusFrea@USF-Wifi-34-23.laptops.usf.edu) |
| 22:30:29 | | Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called) |
| 22:31:57 | | Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 22:33:43 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Welcome to the Internet, where the men are men, the women are men and the children are agents of the FBI) |
| 22:43:45 | | Join evilnick_B [0] (0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 22:46:45 | | Quit t0rc (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4) |
| 22:47:49 | | Quit komputes (Quit: I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.) |
| 22:49:37 | | Quit scorche|sh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:50:35 | | Join scorche|sh [0] (~scorche@squisch.net) |
| 22:57:42 | | Quit anonus (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:04:37 | | Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:05:18 | pamaury | gevaerts: what is the point with svn properties for devcon ? |
| 23:05:48 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:06:09 | gevaerts | pamaury: do we keep them? |
| 23:06:18 | gevaerts | i.e. finally get an official decision |
| 23:06:34 | gevaerts | oh, that reminds me... |
| 23:06:36 | pamaury | I thought the officiel position was to have them |
| 23:06:57 | pamaury | although I never set them because I'm using git-svn :-/ |
| 23:07:03 | gevaerts | Well yes, my interpretation is that there was no consensus to drop them |
| 23:07:23 | sideral | Can anyone explain when SYS_TIMEOUT is sent? |
| 23:07:34 | gevaerts | But I'm aware that there's a significant group of people who either ignores that or isn't happy with it |
| 23:07:40 | * | gevaerts heads back to that page |
| 23:08:23 | * | funman mentions a possible switch to git |
| 23:08:43 | gevaerts | Why git? bzr is arguably better! |
| 23:08:53 | pamaury | sideral: I might be wrong but it could be related to backlight |
| 23:09:10 | saratoga | i was going to say can we pick an even more obscure source management tool |
| 23:09:21 | pamaury | funman: I wouldn't discuss "going for git" but more "going for a dcvs" since git is not necessarly the *best* tool |
| 23:09:23 | saratoga | although switching to git is fine with me that way i'd finally figure out how to use it |
| 23:09:58 | pamaury | although I never used hg and bzr, they seem to be good tools |
| 23:10:13 | gevaerts | We'll let our host argue the bzr case :) |
| 23:11:16 | pamaury | hehe |
| 23:11:24 | pamaury | who is the hg guy ? :D |
| 23:11:31 | Torne | nobody in particular i expect |
| 23:11:37 | * | gevaerts adds one more discussion item |
| 23:12:38 | gevaerts | Well, I did *now* |
| 23:12:57 | gevaerts | Stupid broken cross-site scripting protection... |
| 23:13:16 | | Join logvelc [0] (~erik@elbereth.midgard.liu.se) |
| 23:14:11 | pamaury | gevaerts: what was Daniel's proposal ? (can't remember) |
| 23:14:20 | pamaury | commit not discussed enough ? |
| 23:14:30 | gevaerts | pamaury: it's on the mailing list somewhere |
| 23:14:39 | gevaerts | I couldn't be bothered to search :) |
| 23:14:59 | gevaerts | There was some discussion back then, but no clear consensus |
| 23:15:42 | pamaury | can someone recall me why we are sticking with GPL2 ? |
| 23:15:54 | pamaury | to allow other project to reuse our code ? |
| 23:16:30 | saratoga | yeah |
| 23:16:32 | AlexP | v2 or later, no? |
| 23:16:40 | n1s | yep v2+ |
| 23:16:42 | AlexP | also, some people don't like v3 |
| 23:16:48 | saratoga | moving to GPLv3 makes no real sense for the source, not a bad idea to distribute the binaries under it though |
| 23:17:04 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 23:17:17 | n1s | iirc the gplv3 discussion died off with the whole v2/v2+ thing and never picked up again |
| 23:17:48 | gevaerts | We need a decent discussion about this. Back in 2008 we decided to stick with 2+, but that's a while ago now, and there weren't any real problems doing that back then |
| 23:17:54 | | Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 23:17:57 | n1s | yeah, the binaries under v3 seems sensible to me too |
| 23:17:58 | saratoga | i personally wouldn't mind having GPLv3 binaries, 2+ source code, and requiring any code using GPLv3 licensing to have a GPLV3 define around it in case someone needs GPLv2 binaries for some reason |
| 23:18:10 | gevaerts | Yes |
| 23:18:19 | gevaerts | Something like what ffmpeg does |
| 23:18:27 | saratoga | make GPL a configure option, defaulted to 3, but a test build on the build server to make sure no one breaks 2 |
| 23:18:43 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 23:18:57 | saratoga | but at the moment we have no good GPLv3 patches to add, so its a moot point at the moment |
| 23:19:08 | AlexP | espeak? |
| 23:19:14 | saratoga | is there a patch? |
| 23:19:27 | AlexP | yeah, don't know it what state now though |
| 23:19:28 | pamaury | probably not because gplv3 was a stopper |
| 23:19:35 | n1s | there's an old patch with a plugin |
| 23:19:39 | AlexP | There is a patch on the tracker |
| 23:19:49 | n1s | fs#7660 |
| 23:20:35 | n1s | it was v3 already back in 2007 |
| 23:20:49 | gevaerts | saratoga: porting v3 code is likely to be a significant effort, so I assume that many people won't even start |
| 23:21:33 | n1s | having a tts integrated would be a really nice feature imo |
| 23:22:35 | saratoga | once someone is ready to add the v3 code, just have them add a define around it, and one of the swedes update the download page to say the binary is v3 |
| 23:22:59 | saratoga | afaict theres nothing else that needs to be done |
| 23:23:12 | gevaerts | probably not |
| 23:23:19 | gevaerts | Except agreeing that we want this of course |
| 23:23:23 | | Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:23:26 | n1s | yeah |
| 23:24:04 | n1s | that relocatable/multi plugin feature could be very usefull for this :) |
| 23:24:25 | gevaerts | huh? |
| 23:24:27 | gevaerts | How? |
| 23:25:02 | n1s | load a tts as a plugin of sorts |
| 23:25:18 | n1s | would need a suitable interface of course |
| 23:25:27 | gevaerts | Ah, ok |
| 23:25:35 | logvelc | I've got an MP3 player and got no idea how to change it's user interface. It seems rockbox does but it does a lot more. Is there a concise explanation of how rockbox solves this somewhere? |
| 23:25:37 | gevaerts | i.e. no space when not used |
| 23:25:43 | logvelc | its* |
| 23:25:47 | saratoga | does what? |
| 23:25:54 | saratoga | has a UI :) |
| 23:25:56 | AlexP | logvelc: Rockbox is a complete firmware replacement, not an interface tweak |
| 23:26:00 | n1s | exactly, as i guess it will be a couple of bytes |
| 23:26:04 | gevaerts | logvelc: rockbox doesn't "change the user interface" on an mp3 player. It replaces *all* software |
| 23:26:27 | logvelc | ok, should've said "firmware" instead |
| 23:26:33 | saratoga | we have a UI by using code to blink pixels on and off to form images and words ;) |
| 23:26:48 | saratoga | also sometimes sounds |
| 23:26:58 | AlexP | logvelc: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort |
| 23:27:01 | logvelc | i'd just like to know what the first nontrivial steps are |
| 23:30:25 | funman | agree to sacrifice months of man-hours without knowing if it will result in something positive for your player |
| 23:33:20 | logvelc | seems to be more DAP-dependent than i thought |
| 23:33:35 | Torne | well yes, they are all pretty much different :) |
| 23:34:05 | AlexP | logvelc: Sure, it is a complete operating system, it has to be written for the hardware |
| 23:34:14 | logvelc | aren't there any nice, non-imperialistic players out there? |
| 23:34:26 | saratoga | if you're asking these questions, you should probably just buy a $25 dollar Clip the next time they're on sale |
| 23:34:51 | funman | isn't the Clip the King of all DAPs? ;) |
| 23:35:07 | saratoga | its a pretty great player |
| 23:35:07 | gevaerts | "non-imperialistic"? |
| 23:35:40 | gevaerts | If you mean "using more or less standardised hardware", then no. That's not how the world of small systems works |
| 23:36:11 | logvelc | gevaerts: well, it feels like the developers have gone a long way to force the user to use their crappy code |
| 23:36:33 | saratoga | more like they haven't done any effort to help other people not use it |
| 23:37:36 | funman | or their bosses didn't allow them |
| 23:38:17 | saratoga | its not really a positive thing, giving out docs and code requires effort and foresight to use hardware with public documentation, and theres very little reason to do that |
| 23:38:42 | saratoga | generally one picks the best hardware for a given job, not the hardware that will make a couple random people on the internet years later happy :) |
| 23:38:57 | sideral | Whew, I think I now understand how the database is created and cached in RAM. AlexP, your incremental DB update wishlist feature is shaping up on the horizon :) |
| 23:39:07 | AlexP | sideral: woo :) |
| 23:39:14 | AlexP | good news :) |
| 23:39:23 | sideral | It's pretty ... interesting |
| 23:39:57 | logvelc | I don't really know how these 'small systems' work. I just think it's odd that they are so different from PC:s. Shortage of storage space shouldn't be a problem these days? |
| 23:40:13 | AlexP | Storage is nothing to do with it |
| 23:40:21 | sideral | The DB could definitely benefit from some more dynamic memory management than what Rockbox provides as of today |
| 23:40:25 | gevaerts | Making them similar to PCs would be the single most stupid thing they could do |
| 23:40:50 | gevaerts | For starters, who would buy a DAP with a battery life of five minutes? |
| 23:40:51 | n1s | logvelc: about 0 need for software back or forwards compatibility, usually custom soc's and a pressure to save every penny tou can on the hw |
| 23:41:05 | AlexP | And have a battery that lasts |
| 23:41:09 | AlexP | Ad something that is small |
| 23:41:24 | Torne | most components of a DAP is on a single chip, also |
| 23:42:04 | logvelc | ah, battery could be an issue |
| 23:42:11 | AlexP | not only that |
| 23:42:20 | AlexP | Pretty much everything else too |
| 23:42:35 | gevaerts | What single reason would there be to make them "like a PC"? |
| 23:42:37 | logvelc | not storage |
| 23:42:41 | AlexP | ? |
| 23:42:56 | logvelc | if i were developing them myself, it would save me a lot of time |
| 23:42:58 | n1s | The SoC's are very easy to customize these days so a lot of different ones are used |
| 23:43:03 | saratoga | its not even really an issue of batteries or chips or whatever, its more an issue of "doing this would accomplish nothing" |
| 23:43:28 | saratoga | if you really wanted to you could standardize the i2c interfaces of every SD controller, LCD interface, etc essentially like a PC |
| 23:43:30 | saratoga | but why |
| 23:43:38 | saratoga | what does that accomplish? |
| 23:43:49 | saratoga | its a lot of work for no reason at all |
| 23:44:02 | Torne | logvelc: the smallest, lowest power PC-like hardware is probably ten times bigger and uses twenty times as much power as the chips they use |
| 23:44:08 | logvelc | well, that argument alone only says that one shouldn't change things |
| 23:44:29 | logvelc | Torne: i see |
| 23:44:35 | saratoga | i sense that you have not understood the argument |
| 23:44:56 | AlexP | This is a silly discussion about a silly idea |
| 23:45:39 | n1s | logvelc: PC's need to keep compatibility with current software and hardware so they can't change much, these systems can change almost without limit |
| 23:46:28 | logvelc | to me the persuading arguments against "PC-like" vs "all-hardcoded", disregarding the effort to make the change, is: they use more power |
| 23:46:45 | AlexP | and size and cost and effort etc. |
| 23:46:55 | AlexP | and what does all hardcoded mean? |
| 23:47:02 | gevaerts | How does "PC-like" contrast with "all-hardcoded", and who talks about "all-hardcoded" anyway? |
| 23:47:04 | logvelc | but are they really significant factors? |
| 23:47:07 | AlexP | yes |
| 23:47:18 | AlexP | And all hardcoded doesn't mean anything |
| 23:47:20 | logvelc | didn't you say storage was not an issue? |
| 23:47:25 | saratoga | this has nothing to do with power consumption or storage |
| 23:47:37 | n1s | what does "pc-like" mean to you, standardized and compatible or x86 with bios? |
| 23:48:23 | logvelc | "pc-like": i can get 'direct access' to all code the CPU runs. "all-hardcoded": that's not the case |
| 23:48:37 | logvelc | no particular standard |
| 23:48:56 | saratoga | that doesn't really mean anything |
| 23:49:00 | gevaerts | What does "'direct access' to all code the CPU runs" mean? |
| 23:49:06 | AlexP | that makes no sensnse |
| 23:49:12 | saratoga | you can get all access you want to rockbox, doesn't mean we're a PC OS |
| 23:49:32 | AlexP | You can access the hardware on a dap just as you can on a pc |
| 23:50:08 | logvelc | well, to stop my player from displaying a menu that seems to think loading the entire playlist before displaying anything it seems like I can't change that code without spending months of man-hours |
| 23:50:25 | gevaerts | And you can do that with most common PC OSes? |
| 23:50:34 | AlexP | and how is that anything to do with the hardware? |
| 23:50:49 | AlexP | A PC is a set of hardware that runs software |
| 23:50:52 | AlexP | So is a dap |
| 23:51:35 | saratoga | heh on a Windows PC, I can easily change the windows source by doing the following steps, |
| 23:52:50 | logvelc | Is it possible to edit the memory of my DAP via the USB connection? |
| 23:53:00 | | Part domonoky |
| 23:53:03 | AlexP | what do you mean by memory? |
| 23:53:24 | logvelc | wherever the stupid code resides |
| 23:53:34 | gevaerts | Depends on the DAP |
| 23:54:04 | logvelc | is there a way to find out? |
| 23:54:10 | funman | well it is not our fault, if you want to change things go speak with manufacturers, not us |
| 23:54:38 | logvelc | funman: that's not a point i'm trying to make. I just assumed you would be informed people |
| 23:54:41 | AlexP | I don't mean to be rude, but if you are asking these questions, then no you can't |
| 23:54:43 | logvelc | (and you seem to be) |
| 23:54:57 | logvelc | AlexP: because they are honest of current ignorance? |
| 23:55:21 | funman | MajorChanges isn't updated for dot releases? |
| 23:55:49 | AlexP | logvelc: Because if you need to ask this sort of question, then you aren't capable of doing it |
| 23:55:56 | AlexP | At this time |
| 23:56:10 | funman | logvelc: if you can program, are curious, and want to spend large amount of times then you can do it |
| 23:56:30 | logvelc | AlexP: I'm obviously not able to do it at this time. I'm asking for help what to learn |
| 23:57:23 | n1s | funman: don't think it has been in the past at least |
| 23:58:00 | AlexP | logvelc: The difference between an operating system and an application, and some hardware stuff maybe |
| 23:58:08 | AlexP | I'm not sure what to suggest to be honest |
| 23:58:24 | AlexP | I'm sorry, this is coming across as rude :/ |
| 23:58:38 | | Quit efyx (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:58:44 | | Quit petur (Quit: Leaving) |
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