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#rockbox log for 2011-04-13

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00:05:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:13:47*pamaury wonders if wodz want to brick his device
00:15:20wodzpamaury: not quite - I want to force it into fail safe mode
00:16:04wodzthey put 5! copies of bootloader on the flash
00:21:23pamauryare you sure there is recovry mode ?
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00:22:14wodzyes I am sure
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00:39:04wodzWhen doing block erase what should be the address I should pass? Is this the first row address of the block?
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02:05:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:11:35indian_curry_lovhello ppls
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02:11:55indian_curry_lovi was wondering if anyone knew how to take screen shots of my ipod nano 2g
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02:13:33indian_curry_lovi want to upload a theme but dont know how to take sceenshots
02:13:42indian_curry_lovcan somebody help???
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02:17:16plz_help_mehello ppls
02:17:32plz_help_medoes anyone know how to take a screenshot of the ipod nano 2g
02:18:01plz_help_mei want to upload a theme but don't know how to take a screenshot
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02:20:17GnosHello guys. That voice that always calls-out the battery level just said "Buffer size 50%". I've never heard it call anything but the battery level. What is this?
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02:20:44scrompleindian_curry_lov: You might want to take a look at the Simulator for your hardware version.
02:22:07scrompleplz_help_me: You might want to take a look at the Simulator for your hardware version.
02:25:09scrompleYou can run the theme on there and do screen shots... Don't know the key stroke off the top of my head though/
02:25:16JdGordon1Gnos: your voice/lang file is out of date
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03:26:54mishrasaratoga are you there ?
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04:39:28byteframecan I do random Now Playing screen themes?
04:40:52JdGordon1random in what way?
04:41:24byteframerockbox would every so often select a differant one at random.
04:42:10JdGordon1ignoring the obvious question of "why would you want that", sure it could be done
04:42:30JdGordon1it wont ever get into svn though, maybe as a plugin
04:42:37byteframeI see.
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05:25:35kendellhi. I just bought an iPod fifth gen. looking at the manual I see there are fm radio options. but they don't appear in rockbox. This is because iPods don't have fm tuners built in. but if I buy one and connect it through the dock, can I use it? I looked on the accessories page but couldn't find any
05:26:50kendellaccessories page on rockbox wiki, not apple site.
05:30:12JdGordon1mileage may vary
05:30:22JdGordon1accessory support kinda sucks at the moment
05:30:30JdGordon1so some will work better than others
05:30:31kendellah well
05:30:51kendellI see a bunch of speakers and fm transmitters. but no fm tuners
05:32:13kendellam thinking about selling my iPod to get a different player, but I can't find many competitors. most of the newer players rockbox is either not working on or unstable. most of the iriver ports are beyond my price range, 150 and up. the toshibas are reasonably priced but I don't know if it's possible for me to use it because of the touch pad thing
05:32:46kendellthere's a gigabeat f, but they're kind of difficuilt to locate smiles
05:33:13kendellarg, not again, rockbox just completely crashed, white screen with heavy hdd spinns.
05:38:23kendellby the way, are there any plans to add voice support to plugins menu, database and debug menu? I'm supposed to stay out of there, but plugins and database would be nice :) is it just the voice files that voice the menu uitems, or is there some sort of API that says, here, speak this, don't speak this?
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06:43:39kendellhi all again.
06:44:19kendelljust curious, is it possible to make the rockbox sims accessible to screen readers? was trying out one and couldn't read it with nvda, but could see it.
06:48:31JdGordon1the sims just draw a bitmap
06:48:54kendellso that's why nvda couldn't figure out what it was looking at
06:49:31kendellam trying to find out why the voice support doesn't ectend into certain parts of the rockbox interface.
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07:19:35JdGordon1kendell: which parts?
07:19:52JdGordon1there are a few abandoned voice patches on the tracker if you're interested
07:19:54kendellJdGordon1: plugins menu, debug menu and database
07:20:28JdGordon1no voice support in plugins, debug menus dont use the language system, database doesnt use lang system for those strings
07:20:30kendellJdGordon1: sure. I just can't write c c++
07:20:38JdGordon1time to learn :)
07:20:47JdGordon1of those three, the db one is most wanted
07:21:23kendellJdGordon1: so basically the plugins menu will never get it? I'm just curious. I'm not complaining, I just can't access a lot of content because of the plugins and db not working
07:22:24kendellI think I got as far as variables and function calls before I got so confused I had to take a coffee break. then I just never picked it up again smiles
07:22:54JdGordon1there was a GSoC project a year or two ago to add support but unfortunatly it wasnt finished
07:22:59JdGordon1to plugins I mean
07:23:26kendellwould every plugin had to add support specifically or will there be a universal API taht the plugins use?
07:23:45JdGordon1I dont remember what the plan was
07:23:58kendellnod, I just meant if it ever gets picked up again.
07:24:45kendellis rockbox supposed to go to a white screen and lock after transferring files to the iPod video? mine has been doing that a lot lately and I have to hard reset.
07:26:23JdGordon1yes, thats obviously a feature!
07:26:27kendellfifty percent already? oh come on. it's only been off the charger four hours
07:27:28kendellsmiles, don't mind me, not trying to complain, I love rockbox. sounds a lot better than stock firmware. tried playing an mp3 on my iPod before transferring rockbox and couldn't stand it
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07:29:50kendellJdGordon1: might be simpler to add a tts, but that's probably difficult, as rockbox is a custon OS
07:37:28JdGordon1there is a TTS we wanted to add but its gplv3 which causes us problems
07:37:32*JdGordon1 doesnt remember its name
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07:38:02kendellJdGordon1: couldn't you add espeak? I think that's gplv2?
07:38:22kendellJdGordon1: wait, no, it's not. i think it used to be. it's gplv3 now
07:39:59JdGordon1thats probably the one then
07:40:11JdGordon1search our irc logs if you are interested
07:40:28kendellJdGordon1: there are others, but espeak is probably the fastest responsive wise.
07:40:47kendellJdGordon1: there's eloquence and stuff like that but I don't think eloquence is gpl. in fact i don't know if it even has a license
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07:51:06CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29708): Fix the Xing header parser to have reliable gapless playback. Closes FS #12062.
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07:54:29CIA-87r29708 build result: All green
07:54:54CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29709): Merge r29708 to v3.8 branch. Fixes gapless playback (FS #12062).
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08:05:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:05:55kendellwell, there does seem to be a tts goal already in place for GSOC 2011. I just hope it gets implemented
08:06:23JdGordon1no proposals for it iirc
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08:13:17kendellJdGordon1: not sure about that, I just saw it on the GSOC webpage on the rb wiki. not sure if anyone has taken it up. tha Ipod accessories one would be really great too. I go to walmart with a sheet of paper with my accessory model numbers on it and the walmart person just stares at me. ubh, I'm sorry, we don't carry that.
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09:26:16kendellif you add an fm tuner to the iPod video, will the fm options be available in rockbox? I'd assume not, so how do you operate the radio controls?
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09:29:47n1skendell: i'm pretty sure you control supported radio accessories just like the radio on any other player
09:29:47JdGordon1you assume wrong
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09:30:53kendelloh sorry. i thought that if the menu items weren't there, they wouldn't show up? or do they show up when a compatible tuner divice is found?
09:31:11n1syes they do, it's runtime detected
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09:54:45wodz|workTheSeven: ping
09:56:12kendellah ok
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10:03:09TheSevenwodz|work: pong
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10:05:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:06:34wodz|workTheSeven: when issuing erase block to the nand chip what should be the passed address? I mean is it row address (so if there is 128 pages per block I should pass 0, 128, 256 etc)?
10:08:49TheSevenusually yes (on the hardware side)
10:09:00TheSevenhow this works on the software side depends on the driver of course
10:10:01wodz|workyes I am talking about bare nand chip without any specialized controller inbetween
10:16:51wodz|workTheSeven: how is work with misterious clip going?
10:19:06TheSevenhaven't managed to get it into the right recovery mode yet
10:19:29TheSevenso i'll probably need some rom and possibly flash dumps of working devices to go on with this
10:20:18wodz|workhonestly I was very surprised that nobody cared to dump the rom
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10:27:53*TheSeven as well
10:28:03TheSevenapparently hacking that platform was way too easy :P
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12:49:21[Saint]Is RaaA actually using shutdown "propper"? I mean, is the mechanism the same for Rockbox/RaaA?
12:49:46[Saint]Long story short, can I just add "Shotdown" to the main menu in RaaA and expect it to work?
12:49:53[Saint]*Shutdown too
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13:12:07smkwas looking at MrSomeone's list. in libfaad.c there is a call to malloc(). rockbox doesn't have an implementation of malloc(). so is libfaad not built with the rest of the source?
13:12:52smkspecifically, why is libfaad making a call to malloc() ? how does it work?
13:13:13Torneseveral codecs/plugins *do* have an implementation of malloc()
13:13:22Torneinside that codec/plugin or in codeclib/pluginlib
13:13:35Tornewhat that malloc actually does may vary :)
13:15:06smkso the task of making libfaad malloc-free means replacing calls to malloc with some rockbox specific implementation?
13:15:40gevaertsWell, as far as I understand
13:15:59gevaertsThe point is to make it not need dynamically allocated memory during operation
13:16:32smkok. so pre-calculate the amount of memory needed and give that much static memory
13:16:59smkor something to that effect.
13:17:17gevaertsmore or less
13:17:24gevaertsAsk a codec specialist for details :)
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13:24:19n1swell, yeah, figure out the worst case amount needed and alloc that statically, if that is an insane amount, try to make it less
13:35:00n1smain problem with aac is the mp4 container parser iiuc
13:40:45smkbasic question. since libfaad is a library, everything related to libfaad will be under the same directory right?. codecs/libfaad.
13:41:40smkthat is , when i am working on it, should i be looking for things elsewhere or would it be wasting time?
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13:44:58smkok . i will figure that out :)
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13:49:46n1ssmk: that depends on what you mean by "related to"
13:50:47n1sthe aac codec is made up of 4 parts, the aac.c file in codecs, libfaad, libm4a and the codeclib
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13:53:35smkwhat i mean is, if libfaad calls a function, should i assume that the called function is in one of the files in the same directory?
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13:54:20smkcalls to libfaad can definitely come from anywhere in the codebase.
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13:57:48smkok. i will start work on it. if i get stuck , i will contact one of you.
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13:59:54n1sanything can call the codec lib, i don't know if libfaad does that but otherwise libfaad should not call anything.
14:00:59n1sthe toplevel file of each codec usually first hands a chunk of data to the container parser (here libm4a) and then when the results come back they are sent to the decoder (libfaad)
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15:02:55sideralgevaerts: Still interested in reading the Rockbox forums over NNTP?
15:04:15gevaertssideral: I'm interested in making it *possible*, yes :)
15:04:59sideralThey're available now (read-only) on −− look for*
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15:21:53anonusis there any way to turn off pictureflow completely?
15:22:34anonusincluding menu items
15:23:28[Saint]Not without editing the source and compiling your own build.
15:24:07[Saint]It's pretty easy to just "not use it" though.
15:24:17[Saint]WHat, can I ask, does removing it gain you?
15:24:46anonusthrough ../tools/confugure i can do that ?
15:26:06anonusand if I undefine HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION ?
15:26:23[Saint]Then that will remove pictureflow integration.
15:26:29[Saint]but not pictureflow.
15:26:45anonusand then I will delete pictureflow.rock
15:26:46[Saint]that should take care of most of the orphaned menus though.
15:26:47gevaertsBut then you can remove pictureflow by, well, removing it
15:27:18anonusanother question
15:27:39anonusi want to write some postprocessing plugin...
15:28:01anonuslike replygain
15:28:26anonuswhere should i start ?
15:29:44Tornethere is no way to do that at present
15:29:57gevaertsWell, not as a plugin anyway
15:30:08anonusyea, i understand
15:30:09[Saint]Oh...if you really care about removing all the menu entries for pictureflow, you'll probably want to look at the HOTKEY code as well.
15:30:29[Saint]HOTKEY expects pictureflow to be present.
15:30:34anonusit is not a 'rock' file, but part of code compiled into firmware
15:30:35gevaertsIt does?
15:30:57anonus[Saint]: thanks
15:31:00gevaerts[Saint]: even if HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION isn't defined?
15:31:06gevaertsThat sounds like a bug
15:31:15[Saint]Yeah, I seem to remember it does. It's an option for it, I don't think there's targets with hotkey but without PF
15:31:47[Saint]HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION is just for the WPS, not hotkey iiuc
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15:32:15Torneyes, you probably do understand correctly but that's still a bug
15:32:55gevaertsAs far as I can see it does depend on HAVE_PICTUREFLOW_INTEGRATION
15:33:38anonusif I take replygain.c as basis for my post-processor, can I access mic from there ? or it will be complicated ?
15:34:31*anonus has sansa clip+
15:36:31[Saint]Hmmm, it does indeed. Perhaps I remember this from before hotkey was added to svn, or during one of its many overhauls.
15:41:58anonusanyone ?
15:42:16[Saint]lol. .levels files are built for RaaA
15:43:15gevaertsanonus: I suspect it's not going to be easy. There's no support in rockbox for using the audio codec in full duplex mode
15:44:20anonusi don't want to encode sound to file, i just want to get samples from mic
15:45:03TorneThere's still no support for using the audio codec in full duplex mode
15:45:11TorneIt doesn't matter what you're going to do with the samples
15:46:11gevaertsThe hardware may (or may not, for all I know) support it, but you'll have to expose that support
15:47:33anonusi'll try ;)
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15:51:27n1sat least some players hw support duplex iirc you can start the instrument tuner plugin while playback is running or something
15:51:45n1sin fact, i'll try that
15:53:04n1shm, nope, it stops playbak
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15:54:47n1shm, it plays only a hiss for some reason but definitely not nothing
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16:14:41[Saint]Assuming I am generating valid builds (240x320 works OK on my handset), can someone explain to me please how it is that the 480x800 .apk is *smaller* then the 240x320 .apk I have built?
16:15:29[Saint]I would expect the only difference to be a few values regarding screen dimensions, and the images themselves. The images should mean that the 480x800 is naturally the larger of the two.
16:16:37[Saint]but in builds I have just made (several times, including a new source checkout in case there was weirdness in my tree) the 480x800 build is 3.1MB, and the 240x320 build is 3.2MB
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16:29:14amiconn[Saint]: Check which fonts are included in both builds. Maybe the 240x320 includes some large font files
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16:48:48[Saint]amiconn: very clever ;)
16:50:21[Saint]Also, it shows something kinda weird. Well, not necessarily weird but inconsistent. The 480x800 build gets 35 Helvetica, whereas the 240x320 build gets 15 Helvetica, 16 GNU Unifont, and 19 Nimbus
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16:50:59[Saint]not including 16 GNU unifont in the 240x320 build cuts out a (quite considerable) 1.8MB
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16:51:44[Saint]so, I'm all for not building with it, especially as I made some nice AA fonts that would be perfect for giving each RaaA size it's own font to ship with.
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17:05:51amiconn[Saint]: So far unifont is the only one that covers all languages, so I'd rather leave that included on all targets where it makes sense (i.e. isn't too large or too small)
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17:08:39[Saint]Ok...I guess I buy that, I wasn't really looking at it with translation in mind.
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17:09:01[Saint]The other two fonts are indeed unnecessary.
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17:09:40[Saint]small enough to not really matter, but...not at all needed, so shouldn't be there.
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17:11:18amiconnThe packager only includes fonts which are referenced by themes
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17:11:43amiconnSo if they're included, they are used by at least one theme
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17:13:54[Saint]which leads to "we need to not package anything other than the default theme"
17:14:17[Saint]as if a user puts a custom theme on the .cfg, they won't be able to use the shipped themes anyway.
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17:14:29[Saint]seems a little busted, but it is how it is.
17:15:37[Saint]I had forgotten about other themes being included in RaaA because of this fact.
17:21:00[Saint]Hmmm...yes, 15 Helvetica is used by the 240x320 cabbie, and the other two fonts GNU Unifont and 19 Nimbus are used by the other shipped themes, the real damagi is done by GNU Unifont.
17:21:14[Saint]"damage" being vastly increased .apk size.
17:22:28n1swhy is the size of the apk a problem?
17:22:54[Saint]it's already huge.
17:23:20[Saint]why have 1.8MB of that be a font you can't even use if you have a custom theme on the sd (you probably will)
17:23:44[Saint]RaaA is ~18MB installed.
17:23:55[Saint]in terms of android apps, that's *massive*
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17:25:06[Saint]It's safer to assume that a user *will* install a custom theme at some point, and shipping a seperate "theme pack" with the (currently) shipped themes in it.
17:25:11 Quit antil33t ()
17:25:47[Saint]though as I understand it, it was always the intention to remove all the additional shipped themes from the distributed binaries except cabbiev2
17:26:13n1syeah i think we have intended to do that for quite a while
17:26:29n1sbut that sd card business sounds broken
17:26:57[Saint]There's no place right now where that makes more sense than RaaA, because at least with the other targets using another theme doesn't restrict access tothe shipped ones.
17:27:03[Saint]*to the
17:28:42n1syeah but that sounds like a separate issue that should be fixed
17:30:38[Saint]I don't believe it can be.
17:31:52n1show wonderful
17:31:54[Saint]Or rather, I believe there is a reason it is this way, though I can only speculate as to what that reason is ;)
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17:50:31TheLemonManpamaury: ping
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17:51:39pamauryTheLemonMan: pong but have to leave out the court :)
17:52:15TheLemonManhah perfect timing, are you coming back sometimes soon ?
17:52:25pamauryhalf an hour
17:52:46pamauryI realized I couldn't try your openbltc because the only program provide not immediate feedback with your method :) brb
17:53:25TheLemonMankk, ill be here :)
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17:54:11TheLemonManin the meanwhile, is there any hardware guru floating around ?
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17:56:40n1sTheLemonMan: it's usually better to just ask your question do if someone who sees it knows the answer they can answer
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17:57:41TheLemonManwhats the bare minimum hw to setup ?
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17:58:48funmanTheLemonMan: starting with LCD/backlight helps further debugging
17:59:22TheLemonMannot even ram/lradc/battery ?
17:59:57n1sTheLemonMan: it depends on where your code starts and what is already set up and the specifics of the hw
18:00:13TheLemonManim running on bare metal
18:00:19 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*)
18:00:52n1sTheLemonMan: no other bootloader or anything?
18:00:53saratogamishra: (for the logs) back now
18:00:58funmanTheLemonMan: if your code is running from ROM then no need for ram, and if you're plugging it on power no need for battery/adc
18:01:17funmanaren't you working on fuze+?
18:02:04TheLemonManits another player using (quite) the same board
18:03:38funmanfirst thing IMO is to get some feedback from your code and having LCD working
18:03:46funman.. helps that greatly
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18:51:46pamauryhaving lcd working is nice but can be non-trivial
18:52:27TheLemonManim giving up at reversing the bootloader, it has too much unknown writes/reads
18:52:53pamauryreally ? at which addresses ?
18:53:01pamauryperhaps it uses the mmu
18:53:36TheLemonManfor example it has functions to get a bit off a 2-bit field
18:53:43*[Saint] managed to reduce the size of the RaaAoA 240x320 .apk by .2MB compressed and ~2.3MN extracted by removing "non-essential" files.
18:54:39pamauryTheLemonMan: I don't understand, that's a pure software thing, all the hardware is documented no ?
18:54:59pamauryhow do you plan to have the lcd working for example ?
18:55:14TheLemonManit looks to me that the 3700 doesnt fully matches the imx23
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18:56:35pamaurydid you ask freescale ?
18:57:28TheLemonMannope, but i guess they wont answer/give datasheets
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18:58:47[Saint]Oops. 240x320 .spk "stock" == 3.2MB, "bare essentials" == 2.6MB, and I'm pretty sure I could cut out more if I wanted to (only an additonal ~200kb or so, so not really worth it).
18:58:48pamaurymy guess would be that 3780 == imx233 is an evolution of 3700 and thus includes it
19:00:11TheLemonManso, how would you explain all those strange access ?
19:00:25[Saint]GodEater_: Do I remember correctly that you were looking at ways to decrease the size of the RaaA .apk?
19:00:48pamauryTheLemonMan: do you have an example address ?
19:01:14AlexP[Saint]: If you mean the discussion I was also part of, then you mean bluebrother I think
19:01:43[Saint]Ah, thanks for that AlexP.
19:01:55TheLemonManpamaury: BIT(HW_POWER_LOOPCTRL, 13)
19:01:57[Saint]They've both been pinged now, so, bases covered ;)
19:02:13TheLemonManas you can see from the docs it's getting the high bit of a 2bit field
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19:03:41GodEater_[Saint]: not me - at least, if I was, I don't remember why. :)
19:03:52pamauryok, but on this precise exemple, that could be a hack
19:04:09GodEater_ah good, was bluebrother
19:04:12GodEater_thank goodness
19:04:16GodEater_thought I was going senile then
19:04:17[Saint]GodEater_: Sorry about that, AlexP was indeed on the ball there.
19:04:33GodEater_say may argue I *am* senile anyway however ;)
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19:04:54TheLemonManbut doesnt make any sense at all even if it was an hack
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19:05:43pamaurywell yes, it tells if EN_RCSCALE is either 4 or 8
19:05:57 Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
19:06:15pamaurysince the meaning of EN_RCSCALE is unclear from the beginning, that's not a real problem
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19:07:29pamauryyou don't need to understand everything. Of course, if everything is like that, that might be a problem
19:07:44TheLemonManmeh, if only i had a disassembler
19:08:25pamaurywhat are you using ?
19:08:30[Saint]2.8MB shaved off the "installed" size.
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19:08:30*AlexP hands TheLemonMan a hammer
19:08:33[Saint]not too shabby.
19:08:41AlexP[Saint]: Indeed not
19:08:47AlexPWhat came out?
19:08:56[Saint]themes and fonts.
19:09:18AlexPGood plan, we should just ship cabbie and the needed font
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19:09:34TheLemonManpamaury: ida pro, but i translate every bit to C code by hand
19:09:40[Saint]there's a few more "odds&ends", but they only amount to ~200kb uncompressed.
19:10:06AlexPThat's still quite a bit in android terms
19:10:12pamaurykeep it in assembly and use the features of ida pro
19:10:31[Saint]true. I'm wondering if is ever used after the initial installation.
19:10:55[Saint]and if not, if the installation should kill it after it's needed.
19:11:22pamauryTheLemonMan: how large is the code ?
19:11:50bertrikDo we have some kind of framework to handle dock detection?
19:11:52TheLemonMan14.6kb the first part that does just hw setup
19:12:20TheLemonMan111.1kb the second part that setups the nand/screen/touchpad and loads the linux kernel
19:12:24bertrikLike handling dock detection as a kind of button, or like headphone detection?
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19:13:31pamaury111Kb begins to be a bunch of code, for sure, but patience is the key point :)
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19:14:55TheLemonMani get nervous even with the smaller one
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19:15:32pamaurywhy ?
19:16:07TheLemonMantons of unintresting stuff related to ac/dc converters
19:16:41pamaurysure, but by reversing lots of unteresting of trivial stuff, you end up reversing mountains
19:16:53bertrikI'd hope the ac/dc converter stuff is fixed in hardware, too risky to get it wrong
19:17:56TheLemonManmeh, this player already flied back to samsung 5-6 times because i flashed it wrong
19:19:32TheLemonManpamaury: have you tried using my tool ?
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19:20:50pamauryno, because the only feedback I have for now (I didn't try too hard honestly) is disconnecting usb. Indeed, after the interrupt xfer, usb is still connected but my code is loaded so it's feedback. With your tool, it won't work, so I won't have feedback
19:20:55pamauryI need to write more code
19:21:42pamauryI plan to write a usb driver firstr
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19:22:48TheLemonManmmh, is ram already initialized by the usb bootloader ?
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19:23:26pamauryI don't know
19:23:46pamauryIn any case, I have the code from the fuze+ firmware to do this :)
19:24:14 Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:24:17TheLemonManno weird things in it ?
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19:25:04pamauryno, it's writing lots of values to lots of dram registers and doing lots of power related things. I concluded the code is insane but working :)
19:25:41pamauryActually, the fuze+ firmware has 3 hw init stages before having a 4th stage doing the actually loading (I think)
19:25:47TheLemonManso you just copypaste it ?
19:26:29pamauryI don't need to, if I want I can just extract an elf file from the sb file which contain this code and then include it with elftosb
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19:26:59pamaury(the sbinfo tool in our trunk procude one elf file per "subsection" of the sb file)
19:27:26TheLemonManthats what i meant :) the only downside is that you dont have full control over the hw
19:28:01pamauryhonestly, I don't want to master the sdram init, it's not really interesting
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19:28:17pamauryI can always tweak the registers later
19:29:01pamauryalso I didn't check if the values of the firmware match the one in the table of the imx23 doc
19:29:13pamauryperhaps they optimized it for this particular sdram
19:29:16TheLemonManvarious access to HW_CLKCTRL_TV :|
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19:29:21saratogausually we let the OF bootloaders/ROMs setup the hardware, and just tweak it later if needed
19:29:40saratogano sense setting up hardware yourself if the OF will do it for you (and more then likely do it correctly)
19:30:10TheLemonManso the plan is to skip the first bootloader stage and jump on the second directly ?
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19:33:05pamaurywell, *my* plan is to understand the things I can't invent: lcd init, touchpad control, buttons, backlight. Then, I'll defer all the init code to the OF (if needed) (by copying the code from it using the trick I described) and take control after it
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19:34:37pamauryI need to leave, good luck with your disassembly
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19:36:47TheLemonManheh thanks :) have a nice day
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19:44:00bertrikthe rockbox manual has a copyright statement that goes only up to 2010
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19:52:55bertrik"However before beginning there are a few things it is important to know." from the manual (chapter 2 - installation) doesn't sound quite right
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19:56:50n1sbertrik: s/it is/that are/ ?
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20:02:24AlexPfew important things to know
20:02:41AlexPor what n1s said
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20:03:06*linuxstb goes with AlexP's version
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20:05:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:26:10[Saint]removing 2.6ish MB of files from the .zip before it gets .apk'd == ~4MB of savings in the "installed" size.
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20:27:44[Saint]trimming the "fat" is *definitely* worth it, especially for the 240x320 build as it's (un)lucky enough to share a resolution with existing targets so gets all the "usual suspects" added in with the .zip/.apk
20:28:56[Saint]also, what do we consider "default" in relation to the theme?
20:29:03[Saint]it *is* cabbiev2?
20:31:01[Saint]I ask that because "rockbox_default_icons" doesn't use the tango! iconset that cabbie uses, and I consider cabbiev2 to be the "default" personally.
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20:35:09bertrikAlexP, thanks, I'll fix that
20:36:14TheLemonManit's normal to send a long sequence of commands to an lcd controller ?
20:36:47 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral)
20:37:00bertrikusually, it takes a few tens of commands to initialise the lcd
20:37:20TheLemonManso, yay, ive nearly reversed all the lcd init
20:38:39 Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20:40:58bluebrother[Saint]: the thing that annoys me is that (as far as I understand) Rockbox extracts a (which is a from its data directory to the data directory so it ends up there twice.
20:41:15bluebrotheron my device I see around 8MiB used for data. Which is a bit much
20:41:30bluebrotherand I can delete afterwards. At least it still works for me.
20:41:37bertrikTheLemonMan, you can probably find other interesting lcd functions in the vicinity of that
20:41:58[Saint]bluebrother: Is the installation process capable of this cleanup?
20:42:17[Saint]I don't think any of my savings would apply to your handset (maybe, what res is it?)
20:42:34bluebrother[Saint]: well, I tried changing the startup code to delete the file after extraction but this didn't seem to work.
20:42:50bluebrotherbut I have to admit that I have no idea about java so I might be doing something wrong here :)
20:43:22bluebrotheranother question: why does Rockbox extract it to /data/data/org.rockbox and not to /sdcard/rockbox? AFAIK it uses /sdcard/rockbox too
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20:44:18bluebrotherhmm, seems Rockbox can't load codec files from sdcard :(
20:44:29[Saint]Hmmm. I found something that simple doesn't add up. I removed ~2.6MB (uncompressed) of files from the .zip, which resulted in an .apk which was .6MB smaller...but the installed size was ~4MB in savings.
20:44:57[Saint]I agree.
20:45:28bluebrotherbasically I have two questions: (1) why package inside of a and then extract it? Is it not possible to have the contents of directly in the apk?
20:46:25bluebrother(2) why not extract it to /sdcard/rockbox? The internal space is much more limited than the sdcard, and requiring an sdcard to run is sensible IMO −− you don't have much usable space to store your music on the internal flash anyway.
20:47:11[Saint]Are there many android devices that *don't* have sd?
20:47:54[Saint]forget many, are there any?
20:48:38CIA-87New commit by bertrik (r29710): Manual: rephrase a sentence in the installation chapter a bit
20:48:51bluebrotherno idea
20:49:02[Saint]You're quite correct though, even if there is, internal space is limited enough to safely assume the device will have/be using external storage if it's intention is a DAP
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20:50:18[Saint]"average joe" couldn't write to the internal storage anyway iiuc.
20:51:28[Saint]so yeah, I'd say assuming an sd is present on Android and writing as much to it as possible is entirely sane, though I'm looking at that whilst not being aware of all the limitations.
20:52:11bluebrothersame here :)
20:52:38CIA-87r29710 build result: All green
20:53:36bluebrotherthe main problem is that my phone told me it's out of internal memory, otherwise I wouldn't be bothered by that :)
20:53:48bertrikoh, I thought commits to the manual didn't trigger a build
20:54:02bluebrotherthey do, since the build system rework
20:54:04 Quit bieber_ (Remote host closed the connection)
20:54:14bluebrother(as do Rockbox Utility commits :)
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20:59:26TheSevenhm, so does anyone have a clip+ rom dump for me?
21:00:32bertrikno, I don't, but I could put some effort in it
21:01:14[Saint]TheSeven: Guess you're surprised no one ever did it while they had the opportunity to too huh?
21:01:43TheSevenas i said, porting rockbox to that platform was apparently way too easy :P
21:02:59[Saint]It pains me when people follow the unbricking page on the wii, then come here and are like "well, what now?"
21:03:00bertrikdo we have something to dump it already/
21:03:09funmanTheSeven: the ROM isn't a lot more interesting than the OF itself
21:03:10[Saint]"well, you dump an OF image on there"
21:03:24[Saint]"where do I get it?".."I dunno, your problem"
21:03:25funmanbertrik: the debug menu has code to dump the ROM already but for other targets
21:03:31TheSevenfunman: it definitely is, as far as recovery methods are concerned
21:03:43funmangood point
21:04:08bertrikI think it is unfortunate the unbrick page says to unsolder the battery connection
21:04:11funmanbertrik: let me look at this, i haven't touched rockbox for some time
21:04:13TheSeveni have u42p's bugger sitting here on my desk, and no matter what i do, it refuses to the right enter recovery mode
21:04:17bertrikthat's really a measure of absolute resort IMO
21:04:23TheSevens/the right enter/enter the right/
21:04:48bertrik*last resort
21:04:50TheSevenbertrik: what is that supposed to achieve?
21:05:07TheSevenif the device fails to power off by holding power?
21:05:16[Saint]bertrik: in the same respect, you don't want people poking about at random pads on a powered device.
21:05:17TheSevenor when does one need to do that?
21:05:18bertrikto make really sure that it's powered off I guess
21:05:37TheSevenwell, one can do that by other means as well
21:06:05TheSevenpress power briefly, wait a second, then hold power for 10 seconds
21:06:10[Saint]the players can get into some wicked locked up states.
21:06:10TheSevenafter that, it will always be off
21:06:13 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
21:06:31TheSevenwell, mine doesn't seem to be one of those then
21:06:39[Saint]wait ;)
21:07:50[Saint]That method breaks if the player is in some infinite loop and it's not registering the power button.
21:08:20TheSevenIIUC holding the power button is registered by hardware means like menu+select on the ipods
21:08:27[Saint]this has happened to more than a few people as I understand it, meaning the battery needed to be disconnected by the impatient, or the player left to completely discharge.
21:08:55 Join bieber_ [0] (
21:09:16[Saint]the forums has many a tale of people needed to wait several days to recover from a lockup.
21:10:15funmanbertrik: (untested)
21:10:44bertrikI'm working on the dump
21:10:54TheSevenfunman: the path probably needs a leading slash?
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21:13:28funmanTheSeven: true
21:14:15bertrikI think I got it, at least I see a couple of E5 at the start of the file
21:14:29bertrikI dumped 128 kB starting from 0x8000.0000
21:15:25bertrikTheSeven, where can I send it?
21:15:45TheSeven0x80000000 or 0xc0000000?
21:15:56funmani think it's both
21:16:18TheSevenwell, dumping both can't hurt :)
21:16:44funmanwell both addresses are mirrors
21:16:56bertrikI also see some texts like "Divide By Zero", possibly from some C support lib
21:17:20TheSevenbertrik: either upload it at e.g. and send me the link, or email it to my nickname at freemyipod dot org
21:18:45TheSevenok, got it, you should take it down again for legal reasons :)
21:19:42TheSevenat which memory address is the internal ram?
21:19:48TheSevenand how big is it?
21:20:19bertrikTheSeven, I think it starts at 0x0, it's 128 kByte
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21:21:41bertrikTheSeven, I assume this from reading the as3525 datasheet (which might not be applicable to the clip+)
21:22:21TheSevenwhat kind of memory area is at 0x810FE000?
21:22:37TheSeventhe bootrom zeroes that very early, as far as i can tell before setting up the sdram?
21:22:59TheSevenand also 0x810EB000
21:23:28TheSevenaha, stacks in there, so ram, yes
21:23:42funmaniram is 0x100000 bytes on clip+ and starts at 0x81000000
21:24:15bertrikTheSeven, get the as3525 datasheet! :)
21:24:52TheSeveni think i have that somewhere
21:25:01TheSevenbut i'm not yet used to it :P
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21:29:52TheSevenbertrik, funman: what's the actual base address of the mmc controller that's connected to the internal emmc?
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21:31:35TheSevenwhich datasheet matches it better? as3525 or as3543?
21:33:37funmanas3543 is only for audio/pmu
21:34:57funmanTheSeven: on AMSv2 the base address for SD controller is 0xC6070000, there is only one controller for embedded storage and µSD slot iiuc
21:35:15funmanbut it's not part of the as3525 (i.e. not mentioned in the datasheet)
21:35:46funmanand you should ask the OF disassembly from someone because large parts of the ROM are identical
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21:39:48bertrikI see some code looking at GPIO B5 and GPIO C1,C2
21:40:25bertrikfunman, in our sd code, we have to enable 3 devices to get sd to work
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21:42:27bertrikGPIO B4 is connected the "unbrick pin", C1 and C2 are connected to the menu and play button respectively
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21:53:07TheSevenfunman, bertrik: anyone seen a firmware image format that has the entry point address relative to the start of the image at offset 0x8?
21:56:06bertrikI guess the first 64 bytes or so in the rom image is the vector table and I think vector 0 is the reset vector
21:56:27TheSevenyeah, but i found some code that executes such a thing
22:04:52bertrikhm, I see a text "M200Plus"
22:05:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:06:56funmaniiuc you see that in recovery mode (on the USB host)
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22:17:32TheLemonMani currently have init_video, init_video_looped, init_video_the_clone and init_video_the_revenge
22:17:53TheLemonMannever been good at naming stuff :/
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22:20:13funmanTheLemonMan: is backlight working on your board?
22:20:52TheLemonManim still reversing atm but backlit is handled by pwm0 wich i havent touched yet
22:22:54 Join antil33t [0] (
22:24:28 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection)
22:28:13TheLemonMananyway, if anyone has a board that supports the BLTC protocol please contact me
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23:05:18pamaurygevaerts: what is the point with svn properties for devcon ?
23:05:48 Quit mshathlonxp (Quit: Leaving)
23:06:09gevaertspamaury: do we keep them?
23:06:18gevaertsi.e. finally get an official decision
23:06:34gevaertsoh, that reminds me...
23:06:36pamauryI thought the officiel position was to have them
23:06:57pamauryalthough I never set them because I'm using git-svn :-/
23:07:03gevaertsWell yes, my interpretation is that there was no consensus to drop them
23:07:23sideralCan anyone explain when SYS_TIMEOUT is sent?
23:07:34gevaertsBut I'm aware that there's a significant group of people who either ignores that or isn't happy with it
23:07:40*gevaerts heads back to that page
23:08:23*funman mentions a possible switch to git
23:08:43gevaertsWhy git? bzr is arguably better!
23:08:53pamaurysideral: I might be wrong but it could be related to backlight
23:09:10saratogai was going to say can we pick an even more obscure source management tool
23:09:21pamauryfunman: I wouldn't discuss "going for git" but more "going for a dcvs" since git is not necessarly the *best* tool
23:09:23saratogaalthough switching to git is fine with me that way i'd finally figure out how to use it
23:09:58pamauryalthough I never used hg and bzr, they seem to be good tools
23:10:13gevaertsWe'll let our host argue the bzr case :)
23:11:24pamaurywho is the hg guy ? :D
23:11:31Tornenobody in particular i expect
23:11:37*gevaerts adds one more discussion item
23:12:38gevaertsWell, I did *now*
23:12:57gevaertsStupid broken cross-site scripting protection...
23:13:16 Join logvelc [0] (
23:14:11pamaurygevaerts: what was Daniel's proposal ? (can't remember)
23:14:20pamaurycommit not discussed enough ?
23:14:30gevaertspamaury: it's on the mailing list somewhere
23:14:39gevaertsI couldn't be bothered to search :)
23:14:59gevaertsThere was some discussion back then, but no clear consensus
23:15:42pamaurycan someone recall me why we are sticking with GPL2 ?
23:15:54pamauryto allow other project to reuse our code ?
23:16:32AlexPv2 or later, no?
23:16:40n1syep v2+
23:16:42AlexPalso, some people don't like v3
23:16:48saratogamoving to GPLv3 makes no real sense for the source, not a bad idea to distribute the binaries under it though
23:17:04*gevaerts nods
23:17:17n1siirc the gplv3 discussion died off with the whole v2/v2+ thing and never picked up again
23:17:48gevaertsWe need a decent discussion about this. Back in 2008 we decided to stick with 2+, but that's a while ago now, and there weren't any real problems doing that back then
23:17:54 Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:17:57n1syeah, the binaries under v3 seems sensible to me too
23:17:58saratogai personally wouldn't mind having GPLv3 binaries, 2+ source code, and requiring any code using GPLv3 licensing to have a GPLV3 define around it in case someone needs GPLv2 binaries for some reason
23:18:19gevaertsSomething like what ffmpeg does
23:18:27saratogamake GPL a configure option, defaulted to 3, but a test build on the build server to make sure no one breaks 2
23:18:43*gevaerts nods
23:18:57saratogabut at the moment we have no good GPLv3 patches to add, so its a moot point at the moment
23:19:14saratogais there a patch?
23:19:27AlexPyeah, don't know it what state now though
23:19:28pamauryprobably not because gplv3 was a stopper
23:19:35n1sthere's an old patch with a plugin
23:19:39AlexPThere is a patch on the tracker
23:20:35n1sit was v3 already back in 2007
23:20:49gevaertssaratoga: porting v3 code is likely to be a significant effort, so I assume that many people won't even start
23:21:33n1shaving a tts integrated would be a really nice feature imo
23:22:35saratogaonce someone is ready to add the v3 code, just have them add a define around it, and one of the swedes update the download page to say the binary is v3
23:22:59saratogaafaict theres nothing else that needs to be done
23:23:12gevaertsprobably not
23:23:19gevaertsExcept agreeing that we want this of course
23:23:23 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
23:24:04n1sthat relocatable/multi plugin feature could be very usefull for this :)
23:25:02n1sload a tts as a plugin of sorts
23:25:18n1swould need a suitable interface of course
23:25:27gevaertsAh, ok
23:25:35logvelcI've got an MP3 player and got no idea how to change it's user interface. It seems rockbox does but it does a lot more. Is there a concise explanation of how rockbox solves this somewhere?
23:25:37gevaertsi.e. no space when not used
23:25:47saratogadoes what?
23:25:54saratogahas a UI :)
23:25:56AlexPlogvelc: Rockbox is a complete firmware replacement, not an interface tweak
23:26:00n1sexactly, as i guess it will be a couple of bytes
23:26:04gevaertslogvelc: rockbox doesn't "change the user interface" on an mp3 player. It replaces *all* software
23:26:27logvelcok, should've said "firmware" instead
23:26:33saratogawe have a UI by using code to blink pixels on and off to form images and words ;)
23:26:48saratogaalso sometimes sounds
23:27:01logvelci'd just like to know what the first nontrivial steps are
23:30:25funmanagree to sacrifice months of man-hours without knowing if it will result in something positive for your player
23:33:20logvelcseems to be more DAP-dependent than i thought
23:33:35Tornewell yes, they are all pretty much different :)
23:34:05AlexPlogvelc: Sure, it is a complete operating system, it has to be written for the hardware
23:34:14logvelcaren't there any nice, non-imperialistic players out there?
23:34:26saratogaif you're asking these questions, you should probably just buy a $25 dollar Clip the next time they're on sale
23:34:51funmanisn't the Clip the King of all DAPs? ;)
23:35:07saratogaits a pretty great player
23:35:40gevaertsIf you mean "using more or less standardised hardware", then no. That's not how the world of small systems works
23:36:11logvelcgevaerts: well, it feels like the developers have gone a long way to force the user to use their crappy code
23:36:33saratogamore like they haven't done any effort to help other people not use it
23:37:36funmanor their bosses didn't allow them
23:38:17saratogaits not really a positive thing, giving out docs and code requires effort and foresight to use hardware with public documentation, and theres very little reason to do that
23:38:42saratogagenerally one picks the best hardware for a given job, not the hardware that will make a couple random people on the internet years later happy :)
23:38:57sideralWhew, I think I now understand how the database is created and cached in RAM. AlexP, your incremental DB update wishlist feature is shaping up on the horizon :)
23:39:07AlexPsideral: woo :)
23:39:14AlexPgood news :)
23:39:23sideralIt's pretty ... interesting
23:39:57logvelcI don't really know how these 'small systems' work. I just think it's odd that they are so different from PC:s. Shortage of storage space shouldn't be a problem these days?
23:40:13AlexPStorage is nothing to do with it
23:40:21sideralThe DB could definitely benefit from some more dynamic memory management than what Rockbox provides as of today
23:40:25gevaertsMaking them similar to PCs would be the single most stupid thing they could do
23:40:50gevaertsFor starters, who would buy a DAP with a battery life of five minutes?
23:40:51n1slogvelc: about 0 need for software back or forwards compatibility, usually custom soc's and a pressure to save every penny tou can on the hw
23:41:05AlexPAnd have a battery that lasts
23:41:09AlexPAd something that is small
23:41:24Tornemost components of a DAP is on a single chip, also
23:42:04logvelcah, battery could be an issue
23:42:11AlexPnot only that
23:42:20AlexPPretty much everything else too
23:42:35gevaertsWhat single reason would there be to make them "like a PC"?
23:42:37logvelcnot storage
23:42:56logvelcif i were developing them myself, it would save me a lot of time
23:42:58n1sThe SoC's are very easy to customize these days so a lot of different ones are used
23:43:03saratogaits not even really an issue of batteries or chips or whatever, its more an issue of "doing this would accomplish nothing"
23:43:28saratogaif you really wanted to you could standardize the i2c interfaces of every SD controller, LCD interface, etc essentially like a PC
23:43:30saratogabut why
23:43:38saratogawhat does that accomplish?
23:43:49saratogaits a lot of work for no reason at all
23:44:02Tornelogvelc: the smallest, lowest power PC-like hardware is probably ten times bigger and uses twenty times as much power as the chips they use
23:44:08logvelcwell, that argument alone only says that one shouldn't change things
23:44:29logvelcTorne: i see
23:44:35saratogai sense that you have not understood the argument
23:44:56AlexPThis is a silly discussion about a silly idea
23:45:39n1slogvelc: PC's need to keep compatibility with current software and hardware so they can't change much, these systems can change almost without limit
23:46:28logvelcto me the persuading arguments against "PC-like" vs "all-hardcoded", disregarding the effort to make the change, is: they use more power
23:46:45AlexPand size and cost and effort etc.
23:46:55AlexPand what does all hardcoded mean?
23:47:02gevaertsHow does "PC-like" contrast with "all-hardcoded", and who talks about "all-hardcoded" anyway?
23:47:04logvelcbut are they really significant factors?
23:47:18AlexPAnd all hardcoded doesn't mean anything
23:47:20logvelcdidn't you say storage was not an issue?
23:47:25saratogathis has nothing to do with power consumption or storage
23:47:37n1swhat does "pc-like" mean to you, standardized and compatible or x86 with bios?
23:48:23logvelc"pc-like": i can get 'direct access' to all code the CPU runs. "all-hardcoded": that's not the case
23:48:37logvelcno particular standard
23:48:56saratogathat doesn't really mean anything
23:49:00gevaertsWhat does "'direct access' to all code the CPU runs" mean?
23:49:06AlexPthat makes no sensnse
23:49:12saratogayou can get all access you want to rockbox, doesn't mean we're a PC OS
23:49:32AlexPYou can access the hardware on a dap just as you can on a pc
23:50:08logvelcwell, to stop my player from displaying a menu that seems to think loading the entire playlist before displaying anything it seems like I can't change that code without spending months of man-hours
23:50:25gevaertsAnd you can do that with most common PC OSes?
23:50:34AlexPand how is that anything to do with the hardware?
23:50:49AlexPA PC is a set of hardware that runs software
23:50:52AlexPSo is a dap
23:51:35saratogaheh on a Windows PC, I can easily change the windows source by doing the following steps,
23:52:50logvelcIs it possible to edit the memory of my DAP via the USB connection?
23:53:00 Part domonoky
23:53:03AlexPwhat do you mean by memory?
23:53:24logvelcwherever the stupid code resides
23:53:34gevaertsDepends on the DAP
23:54:04logvelcis there a way to find out?
23:54:10funmanwell it is not our fault, if you want to change things go speak with manufacturers, not us
23:54:38logvelcfunman: that's not a point i'm trying to make. I just assumed you would be informed people
23:54:41AlexPI don't mean to be rude, but if you are asking these questions, then no you can't
23:54:43logvelc(and you seem to be)
23:54:57logvelcAlexP: because they are honest of current ignorance?
23:55:21funmanMajorChanges isn't updated for dot releases?
23:55:49AlexPlogvelc: Because if you need to ask this sort of question, then you aren't capable of doing it
23:55:56AlexPAt this time
23:56:10funmanlogvelc: if you can program, are curious, and want to spend large amount of times then you can do it
23:56:30logvelcAlexP: I'm obviously not able to do it at this time. I'm asking for help what to learn
23:57:23n1sfunman: don't think it has been in the past at least
23:58:00AlexPlogvelc: The difference between an operating system and an application, and some hardware stuff maybe
23:58:08AlexPI'm not sure what to suggest to be honest
23:58:24AlexPI'm sorry, this is coming across as rude :/
23:58:38 Quit efyx (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:58:44 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)

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