Previous day | Jump to hour: 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 | Next day

Seconds: Show Hide | Joins: Show Hide | View raw
Font: Serif Sans-Serif Monospace | Size: Small Medium Large

Click in the nick column to highlight everything a person has said.
The Logo icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).

#rockbox log for 2011-04-17

00:08:01 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called)
00:18:59 Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
00:26:25 Quit skapazzo (Quit: Lost terminal)
00:27:29 Part boghog
00:33:41pepsiim trying to write to the NOR on the mini2440 with openocd, i get an error related on the flash bank command.. target 'jedec_probe' not defined
00:34:56 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:42:22 Join webguest20 [0] (
00:42:47 Quit webguest20 (Client Quit)
00:43:39 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
00:46:16 Join evil_genius [0] (
00:46:21 Quit evil_genius (Client Quit)
00:46:38 Join Keripo [0] (
00:46:42 Join evil_genius [0] (
00:47:00 Quit evil_genius (Client Quit)
00:48:38 Join liar [0] (
00:51:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:54:22 Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:54:44 Join advcomp2019 [0] (~advcomp20@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
00:55:09 Join evil_genius [0] (
00:55:43 Nick evil_genius is now known as Floater (
00:56:30 Nick Floater is now known as Yollean (
00:57:32 Quit Yollean (Client Quit)
01:01:29 Join Yollean [0] (
01:01:51 Join Transformer [0] (
01:03:10 Quit Transformer (Excess Flood)
01:06:14 Quit ender` (Quit: The trouble with quotes found on the Internet is that they often turn out to be unreliable. -- William Shakespeare)
01:06:39 Quit mudd1 (Quit: Ex-Chat)
01:09:18 Quit Yollean (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
01:15:53 Join JesusFreak316 [0] (
01:16:53 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
01:17:14 Quit bluebroth3r (Read error: Operation timed out)
01:32:48 Quit silbo (Remote host closed the connection)
01:34:12 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Reboot)
01:41:15 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
01:43:52 Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection)
01:49:58 Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@
01:52:20 Quit avacore (Read error: Operation timed out)
01:56:09 Join avacore [0] (~avacore@
02:03:14 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@
02:23:52 Join Transformer [0] (
02:26:13 Quit Transformer (Excess Flood)
02:26:22 Join fyre^OS [0] (
02:26:46 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
02:29:00 Quit fyrestorm (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:43:20 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving)
02:51:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:53:35 Join Darkknight512 [0] (
02:58:16 Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.)
03:00:40 Quit fyre^OS (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:01:02 Join fyrestorm [0] (
03:02:37 Quit Darkknight512 (Quit: CGI:IRC)
03:04:59 Join GodEater_ [0] (
03:04:59 Quit GodEater_ (Changing host)
03:04:59 Join GodEater_ [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
03:07:00 Quit GodEater (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:25:53 Quit Keripo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:33:55 Join Keripo [0] (
03:37:39 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
03:38:26 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
03:43:31CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29731): sbinfo: use a define instead of hardcoded values
03:43:43CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29732): sbinfo: make the time calculation clearer
03:43:48CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29733): Rename sbinfo to sbtools and sbinfo.c to sbtoelf.c; preparing for future elftosb
03:43:52CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29734): sbtools: update Makefile; fix whitespaces
03:43:55CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29735): sbtools: add elftosb tool, yet to be finished (parsing of keys and command files done)
03:44:17 Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:46:02 Quit JesusFreak316 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:46:41 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
03:47:11CIA-87r29731 build result: All green
03:50:35CIA-87r29735 build result: All green
04:01:10 Join Topy [0] (
04:04:40 Quit T44 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
04:06:20 Join n17ikh [0] (
04:08:14 Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
04:19:47 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
04:21:20 Quit kugelp (Read error: Operation timed out)
04:42:58 Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services)
04:42:59 Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
04:43:10 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services)
04:43:12 Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
04:43:14 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
04:43:16 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
04:44:25 Join CJhawk67 [0] (
04:45:13CJhawk67Does anyone know how to get the rockbox installer .exe to pick up the sansa clip plus
04:46:17CJhawk67I can't find anything on it only stuff on the fuze
04:47:07 Quit factor (Read error: Operation timed out)
04:51:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:55:05 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:59:18 Join TheSeven [0] (
04:59:28 Quit TheSeven (Changing host)
04:59:28 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
04:59:39 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:13:44 Quit scorche (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:14:53 Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
05:16:24CJhawk67Does anyone know how to get the rockbox installer .exe to pick up the sansa clip plus?
05:21:17 Join Rob2222 [0] (
05:24:59 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
05:28:27 Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (
05:28:30 Part BlakeJohnson86
05:30:32 Join james [0] (
05:30:48 Nick james is now known as Guest6654 (
05:31:16Guest6654Help! I'm trying to flash my sansa clip v2 with rockbox, and it's bricking every time.
05:32:02Guest6654I'm able to revive it, but I'd like to use rockbox on it!
05:36:06 Join BHSPitMini [0] (~BHSPitMon@
05:40:44CJhawk67Hey Guest you there?
05:41:24CJhawk67How are you even doing the rockbox im trying to figure out how on the sansa clip +
05:41:51Guest6654from that perspective, it's pretty easy. at,
05:42:22Guest6654I go to the releases download section and download the latest installer
05:42:25CJhawk67Where do I find it?
05:42:42CJhawk67The installer doesnt pick up the clip as a drive
05:42:50CJhawk67I have the current build installer
05:42:57Guest6654are you running the installer as root?
05:43:19krazykityou shouldn't need root for ams devices
05:43:21Guest6654and have you mounted the clip?
05:43:24CJhawk67I have windows seven 64x ultima
05:43:35Guest6654um, I'm on linux.
05:43:36CJhawk67It's connected to the pc?
05:43:50Guest6654where is it mounted?
05:43:52Guest6654what drive
05:44:00CJhawk67No drive
05:44:16CJhawk67Computer\Sansa Clip+ 4GB\Internal Memory
05:44:29krazykitCJhawk67, your clip+ is in MTP mode
05:44:30CJhawk67No drive letter
05:44:34krazykitthe manual specifically mentions this
05:44:47Guest6654that's where I was getting to.
05:45:14Guest6654thanks krazykit, I'm not very good with windows anymore.
05:45:41krazykitit would happen on linux, too, as you wouldn't be able to mount the device in MTP mode
05:45:56CJhawk67Thanks I think I got it from here on out
05:46:14CJhawk67I appreciate the help cya:)
05:46:19Guest6654true, I saw that, but I would have taken a lot longer to get there, my windows foo is pretty bad.
05:46:20 Quit CJhawk67 (Quit: CGI:IRC)
05:46:42 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (~BHSPitLap@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
05:47:43 Quit BHSPitMini (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
05:55:56Guest6654I just built the bootloader manually, and installed it, and get nothing after the "successfully updated firmware" or whatever.
05:59:25 Part Guest6654 ("Leaving")
06:00:42 Join cctsurf [0] (
06:00:53 Quit cctsurf (Client Quit)
06:07:09 Join factor [0] (~factor@
06:08:55 Quit Galois (Read error: Operation timed out)
06:33:35 Join Horscht [0] (
06:33:35 Quit Horscht (Changing host)
06:33:35 Join Horscht [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
06:36:08 Quit Horschti (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
06:51:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:01:30 Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg)
07:07:18 Quit L-Strife89 (Quit: Bed.)
07:30:04 Join smk [0] (~smk@
07:35:48 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: Operation timed out)
07:36:09 Quit smk (Quit: Leaving)
07:42:47 Join Galois [0] (
08:02:57 Quit t0rc (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4)
08:05:49 Join smk [0] (~smk@
08:06:00 Join leavittx [0] (~leavittx@
08:09:36smkAlexP : PM
08:10:37 Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
08:11:03 Join Keripo [0] (
08:13:56 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:25:11 Join bertrik [0] (
08:25:11 Quit bertrik (Changing host)
08:25:11 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
08:35:37JdGordongrr.... gevaerts! the backdrop changes you did broke the dynamic-screen-size patch
08:51:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:54:36 Part smk ("Leaving")
08:58:32CIA-87New commit by bertrik (r29736): Remove duplicate #include in skin_parser.c
09:01:45bertrikCan someone test a couple of iap (ipod accessory protocol) today? I'd like to clean things up a bit (no functional changes), so I need someone to verify I don't break anything.
09:10:20JdGordonhmm, whats up with the slow compile round?
09:11:28bertrikdon't ask me
09:13:27bertrikSometimes I wonder if I should just commit stuff I'd like to clean up and deal with any complaints later if it breaks, instead of asking people to test.
09:13:48JdGordonusually easier
09:29:01 Quit utanapischti (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
09:29:25 Join sasquatch [0] (
09:36:16 Join smk [0] (~smk@
09:37:37smkAlexP : you here?
09:41:11 Quit smk (Quit: Leaving)
09:44:44 Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@
09:51:39 Join leavittx [0] (~leavittx@
10:03:27 Join [Saint] [0] (
10:03:31 Join ChickeNE_ [0] (~ChickeNES@
10:06:04 Quit ChickeNES (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
10:12:50 Quit ChickeNE_ (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
10:17:33 Join mudd1 [0] (
10:25:51 Part timccc ("Leaving.")
10:26:09 Join timccc [0] (~timccc@
10:31:37 Join benedikt93 [0] (~benedikt9@unaffiliated/benedikt93)
10:42:04 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lem0n@
10:51:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:56:25 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral)
10:58:51pixelmajhMikeS: gevaerts put it best, I was more complaining about the development style (and thought I made that clear). I won't be objecting to a rewritten playback engine after thorough tests showing that it is stable - and to me testing is very important here and it should be tested by lots of people as there seems to be a great variety on what people do with playback. I'm aware that the actual code changes are way above me so I couldn't object anyway.
10:58:51pixelma It really is the work being done "in the dark" almost which made me angry.By the way - if you would have made it more clear on what you were
10:59:19pixelmaworking on things like "well, I just blew a couple month of work if it doesn't go" could be avoided
11:00:15 Join smk [0] (~smk@
11:01:16bertrikAnyone awake with an ipod accessory to test a patch (a cleanup, no functional change)?
11:02:04bertrikThe test is to simply check if the accessory still works as before with the patch.
11:03:07 Join ender` [0] (
11:03:41 Part smk
11:06:13pixelmajhMikeS: and if you say that Buschel's fixes aren't needed anymore now, you may have wasted his time depending on if he was willing to work on them anyway or not with the knowledge that a rewrite that made them unnecessary was coming or not
11:11:30 Join JdGord [0] (
11:13:21 Quit [Saint] (Disconnected by services)
11:13:23 Join S_a_i_n_t [0] (
11:26:51 Join DerPapst [0] (~Alexander@
11:27:42 Join Jerom [0] (
11:27:44 Quit Jerom (Client Quit)
11:39:14*bertrik is annoyed by people posting a bug, me making a patch an them not responding at all
11:39:35bertrikI think I'll just close the task, with time wasted on a possible fix.
11:40:52pixelmajhMikeS: and I surely didn't expect every detail being discussed but a clear notice that a quite major rewrite was going on. :| I read a bit of your discussions with Buschel and saw you talking about something but didn't see that it was such a huge patch.
11:44:22 Quit DerPapst (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:44:46 Join DerPapst [0] (
11:49:33 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:53:45 Join Buschel [0] (
11:59:56jhMikeSpixelma: nothing's different about my style for any sizeable work this time from any other
12:01:23jhMikeSpixelma: and Buschel was made aware of what I was doing, before and during what he was doing with resume
12:01:56*Buschel has no problems with the rework at all
12:03:44jhMikeSthere's a fs task (12069) if you want to look anything over or test (I do have further developments cleaning things up from the last patch on there)
12:04:19Buschelimho we need to rewrite stuff from time to time as we add lots of features without re-designing. a rewrite takes into account all those features. of course we will have regressions for a while. and the will be need to fix those. I trust jhMikeS in supporting such fixing
12:07:30 Join factor [0] (~factor@
12:12:09 Quit JdGord (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:13:57 Quit Keripo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:19:35 Join JdGord [0] (
12:29:29 Join Keripo [0] (
12:32:08 Quit JdGord (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
12:33:05 Quit mt (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
12:38:31pixelmajhMikeS: well, my hope is that you give more notice next time :\
12:40:43JdGordonmore notice of what? nothing has been commited unless it happened in the last houir?
12:40:46*bertrik is closing old bug reports
12:41:21pixelmaimportant rewrite is in progress, I said so many times now
12:41:43JdGordonand it would make any difference to you exactly how if he said anything?
12:42:20gevaertspixelma: I seem to remember that jhMikeS did mention that he was working on playback a few times during the past weeks/months. I can't remember what he said exactly though
12:43:15pixelmaas I said, I saw that too but didn'T imagine it this big
12:43:25JdGordonI'll say it again... so much of rockboxs code has a 1 person bus factor that saying anything in here during redevelopment is pointless and effort should be put into documenting the code instead
12:46:31*Buschel 's upcoming major change to m4a parser does not only save lots of RAM it will also be faster :)
12:46:45JdGordonso whats the catch?
12:47:04 Quit GodEater_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:47:10gevaertsJdGordon: easy. It breaks the new playback patch :)
12:47:54 Join mt [0] (~mtee@rockbox/developer/mt)
12:48:16bertrikI did notice one time during database that it seems that that different containers can have very different parsing time
12:48:47Buschelsee FS #8923
12:50:02bertrikI do like to know what a patch does (what it changes, how and why), instead of having to parse through a nearly half a megabyte patch to reverse-engineer it myself.
12:51:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:51:52 Join liar [0] (
12:52:00 Join DerPapst1 [0] (
12:52:38pixelmait wouldn't have come as a surprise - am I the only one being curious in what's going on with Rockbox code, especially core things? - maybe new design decisions are against something agreed on earlier (and no-one knows now), if you don't let people know what area you are working on there's a possibility of doubling work, wasted hours of another developer etc.
12:53:03pixelmalots of reasons
12:54:03 Quit DerPapst (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
12:55:04pixelma...regressions have to be found and worked on. People use playback in so many different ways that one developer won't ever know all use (and test) cases, it took a while until major bugs were fixed and even found with the current implementation, it's Rockbox's core thing
12:55:07 Join Stummi [0] (~Stummi@rockbox/developer/Stummi)
12:55:17jhMikeSwhat's "big"? lots of files with small mods or few files with big mods?
12:56:27JdGordonthe latter
12:56:30jhMikeSactually, I think alot of what's attributed to playback really isn't core playback. core playback is pretty limited in itself.
12:56:33JdGordonno wait...
12:57:02JdGordoncore playback needs to be ejected from the codebase :)
12:57:16jhMikeSok, svn rm it all then! :)
12:58:02JdGordondone, then we can bring doom back in so it can take its rightful place at the head of the table :p
12:58:05jhMikeSplayback in a plugin?
12:58:16JdGordonis that really such a silly idea though?
12:58:48jhMikeSmine or yours in 3 starting sentences above?
12:59:36jhMikeSdepends on where that GSoC project goes
13:00:15gevaertsAnd on how important we consider doom on the fuze to be
13:00:40gevaertsI mean, the only thing you really gain is more free memory when playback is stopped
13:00:43bertrikI couldn't care less about doom
13:00:54jhMikeSdoom should be the core, yes with 3d playback navigation
13:01:10pixelmait doesn't matter if it's small mods in many files or few files with big mods to me. It's more that it touches an important part of Rockbox's and may change around implementations and as you said yourself is something that you worked on for a while
13:01:47JdGordonin all seriousness though, we want playback to be split from the main code with a designed API... doing it through a plugin is actually a good way to go about it
13:03:24jhMikeSI did have some thoughts, initially because I want to see cuesheets work from outside wps. A midway API that handles the loosely integrated feature could provide a good starting point.
13:07:13 Quit sideral (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
13:08:16 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:08:21bertrikhm, function cfg_string_to_int is a global function, but it's in no include file
13:09:35bertrikoh, it's declared again in a .c file (apps/settings.c)
13:10:34bertrikah, no, the other way around
13:11:35 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
13:13:39 Join pamaury [0] (
13:13:39 Quit pamaury (Changing host)
13:13:39 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
13:14:16JdGordonbertrik: it isnt in option_select.h?
13:15:10bertrikno, the implementation is in settings.c, so the declaration should be in settings.h IMO
13:15:12bertrikI'll fix that
13:15:57gevaertspixelma: I'd say a lot depends on the attitude of the patch submitter. I mean, if it's "take it or leave it", there's a serious problem indeed, but if the submitter is willing to make changes, (up to and including "oh, the basic design is wrong") I think there's no real issue
13:16:24 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
13:17:26soapForum issues?
13:18:14bertriksoap, forum works for me
13:18:50Buschelsoap, works for me, too
13:18:54soapgrrr. scorche are you denying forum page loads to known proxies?
13:19:52pixelmaI somehow feel a bit misunderstood but I don't know how to put it better. I'm aware that it may have to do with how I like working myself - I want to know where I'm going before I start, and so I at least want to know what's going on from others too even if I don't understand everything fully. It's a bit like going to the doctor and I want to be told what he or she is going to do. Seems I'm the only one :|
13:20:17soapor is that askimat software? is the only page which won't load. But I've noticed many BBPress blogs invisibly block posting from the IP address of my VPN.
13:21:02pixelmaI don't understand why a "hey I'm rewriting the playback engine" should be too much to ask for though
13:22:33JdGordonbtw, im rewriting the skinning engine, too many problems with the syntax
13:22:43JdGordoncomplete rewirte using lua to control everything
13:23:57CIA-87New commit by bertrik (r29737): Move declaration of global function cfg_string_to_int to header file settings.h
13:25:11jhMikeSdr. /me had a pretty darn good idea of what's going on and emergency trachiotomy was the only option
13:25:32jhMikeSI just needed a pen an a razor blade
13:25:35gevaertspixelma: there are things like so while jhMikeS may not have announced this *very* publicly, I don't think "keeping it secret" is a fair assessment either
13:28:00 Join GodEater [0] (
13:28:01 Quit GodEater (Changing host)
13:28:01 Join GodEater [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
13:28:14pixelmayeah, all nice, so far with the community effort
13:29:09CIA-87r29737 build result: All green
13:41:23AlexPI don't really see an issue
13:41:41 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
13:41:46AlexPPeople are free to work as they see fit, especially since it went on flyspray
13:41:56AlexPI might have objected if it just went straight in :)
13:44:59AlexPIn fact, I would have :)
13:45:08pixelmaI really don't object to the work being done but I just liked to know about it earlier :|
13:46:16AlexPWhat would it have changed?
13:50:26 Join silbo [0] (
13:54:01*pixelma apologises for being curious and also thinking about jhMikeS's own time... really sorry
13:54:49 Quit silbo (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
13:55:58pixelmaAlexP: I'll be affected as a user (possibly) and want to know what's going on, it may also helped him
13:55:58*gevaerts will put this (well, the general thing) on the devcon agenda
13:57:36AlexPpixelma: Knowing about it in advance doesn't change how it affects you as a user, it gets put on flyspray for testing either way. If he had needed help, I'm sure he would have asked.
13:58:20pixelmaI give up here
13:58:49gevaertsAlexP: I don't think "needed help" is the issue. It's more like "Oh, don't forget about *this* aspect"
13:58:57pixelmawith a big questionmark in my eyes though
13:59:04AlexPgevaerts: Ah right, OK
13:59:35AlexPPossibly then
14:00:32AlexPI guess I just don't see it as a big issue as long as it wasn't committed straight away, and I guess I feel slightly bad that the first response to this was negative and based on communication
14:00:46gevaertsPartly because while it is indeed jhMikeS' own time he's playing with, it would still be annoying (for everyone) to have to notice after two months of work that some fundamental design idea doesn't fit an important use case, and partly because some people would get so upset about this that they drop out entirely
14:01:41AlexPYes, put like that I do understand it - perhaps just not the level of anger
14:01:55pixelmaI thought I made it clear what I was on about :\
14:02:31AlexPpixelma: I have to say I didn't get that at first
14:03:09AlexPIt sounded more like that you were upset because philosophically everything should be known to everyone
14:03:14AlexPto me anyway
14:03:34AlexPAnd given the amount of work it was a shame that the first response was so negative
14:05:52 Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt)
14:07:46pixelma"[11:20:03] <pixelma> I really don't want to dismiss the work being done here, I just don't like the way it was done behind the scenes. It doesn't help with our bus factor problem and e.g. we also want our GSoC students to communicate" not clear enough? Well I really apologise, honestly
14:09:25 Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@
14:10:14AlexPpixelma: My issue is just that the negative was so much more than the positive. It sounded like "oh, yeah, well done but x is wrong, you should have done y etc." I'm sorry that I missed the actual point.
14:10:48AlexPI'm also sorry if I've been rude at any point. I don't think I have, but as we all know it isn't always easy to get across what you mean :)
14:14:52 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@
14:14:52 Quit GeekShadow (Changing host)
14:14:52 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow)
14:16:52*pamaury just had a look at the playback rewrite and is afraid by the size of the patch :-o
14:18:36pamauryIt would be nice to split it if possible
14:20:09S_a_i_n_tJdGordon: You...were....joking, right?
14:23:05 Quit bluefoxx (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
14:23:45 Join bluefoxx [0] (
14:25:18 Quit S_a_i_n_t (Quit: I'm only going to Heaven if it feels like Hell, I'm only going to Heaven if it tastes like caramel...)
14:27:30 Join [Saint] [0] (~St.]
14:29:15jhMikeSpamaury: I wouldn't say it's modular, not very much so since the manner in which codecs are controlled changes
14:31:14pamauryyes I understand that, my question was more: is it possible to remove some things (patches would have an order of course) or does every single piece of code of this patch need to be here
14:32:54pamauryhave you documented it ? To give a high level overview to people like who don't know the playback engine ?
14:32:57jhMikeSto support the playback.c bit, I would say so.
14:33:02pixelmaAlexP: I didn't feel you were rude at any point. It just seems that I'm either misunderstood or am thinking quite different than most of you. I admit being doubtful about major rewrites and their ability to magically fix all sorts of bugs (exaggerating a bit here) - and I just thought "playback has evolved for such a long time, there are probably many many many things to think about and easily overlooked if only one works on a rewrite", I just can't
14:33:02pixelma imagine that it can be done and believed talking about it helps. Seems I'm different and am sorry for that. I will help out testing
14:33:27 Join slooopy [0] (
14:34:07AlexPpixelma: Let's try and break it in interesting ways during testing :)
14:34:11jhMikeSpamaury: I have been thinking about ways to incrementalize it but I don't think it'll be "small"
14:34:25gevaertspixelma: I suspect some of us think that the result of "playback has evolved for such a long time" is not so much "it now handles most cases properly", but rather "it must be a mess by now"
14:34:26pamauryjhMikeS: it only needs to be "smaller" :)
14:34:28jhMikeSAlexP: that's what I'm looking for :)
14:34:56gevaertsAnd that makes one more tolerant to the idea of rewriting the lot
14:35:25pamaurypixelma: pick the database: 1) it has evolved a lot 2) this is a completely messy crappy piece of code :)
14:36:03AlexPEvolved can either mean "has gradually been improved" or "full of nasty hacks", and given what I hear in here about playback code, I tend towards the latter :)
14:36:19jhMikeSmost time I thinking deeply about it and trying to break stuff than typing code out
14:36:36pixelmapossibly, I still don't get completely why this has to go on behind the scenes
14:36:51jhMikeSAlexP: you could say that
14:37:15jhMikeSit's not going on behind the scenes and that's why it's a patch and being discussed now :)
14:37:31pamaurypixelma: because you need to write lots of code as a proof of concept to be sure you approach is feasible ?
14:38:32pamauryAlthough I agree that I would have preferred a discussion before, with an explaination of architectural changes. But hey, if the code is there and can buy us a better playback engine :)
14:40:42jhMikeSnot too much architecturally except with the codecs always watching their message queue so they load and run when asked rather than racing around, but all that is incompatible with current playback.c
14:41:20jhMikeSand all the use of the track array was so messy, it was encapsulated a little bit
14:41:41JdGordon[Saint]: surely...... :D
14:41:56pamauryI mean: if we are to change the playback engine, that's a major opportunity to DOCUMENT it !
14:42:25*AlexP hands pamaury a pen :)
14:42:26[Saint]JdGordon: You have a....Hmmm, well, I wasn't 100% positive you were joking ;)
14:42:30jhMikeSno point in documenting it extensively unless it goes in really
14:42:59JdGordon[Saint]: *wink*
14:43:24pamauryI would say there is a point in documenting it because it helps reviewing it
14:44:03 Quit stoffel (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
14:44:17jhMikeSdon't want to spend excessive amounts of time on that until after pushing the big red "commit" button
14:44:53pixelmajhMikeS: well, it's your time really. If you missed something fundamental in the beginning because of not discussing it earlier and have to start over... nothing more to add
14:45:02[Saint]I'd say it couldn't hurt.
14:45:17[Saint]Even if the whole thing doesn't go in, I'm sure pieces of it will.
14:45:32 Quit mt (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
14:45:33[Saint]they still need documentation.
14:46:19jhMikeSpixelma: i'd say that's highly unlikely it would need utterly to be started over
14:46:25 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
14:47:24jhMikeSI do explain things in comments and why code exists, which the old lacked, so in a way it is more "documented"
14:48:25jhMikeSso, in short, besides the codecs, there is no major architectural change since surrounding code just doesn't allow that yet
14:49:44jhMikeSwhat it mostly addresses are bugs or behavior that is otherwise undefined that leaves the current implementation comatose
14:51:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:55:19jhMikeScodes aren't in control of the engine, the engine controls codes (which is important for not getting stuck and unable to manually skip), codecs stay resident and are initialized at load time, they begin decoding when called to do
14:56:17jhMikeSas it is, if you lose the codec, the playback is almost helpless to do anything at all
15:01:02*jhMikeS recommends patching a tree and looking at key files and not trying to read the patch directly
15:02:15kugelppictures about the playback architecture would be nice
15:02:49 Join einhirn [0] (
15:03:28 Join stoffel [0] (
15:03:40jhMikeS|track0|track1|track2|.....|trackN| ... buffered track variables: start (first buffered), current (decoding), end (after last buffered) <−− not much more to it
15:04:14jhMikeSok, a little more
15:05:50 Join smk [0] (7448c114@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
15:14:30 Quit smk (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
15:15:04 Quit soap (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:15:36 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
15:15:42 Join smk [0] (~smk@
15:16:08 Join mshathlonxp [0] (
15:16:20 Part smk
15:19:23soapthe other point in documenting it is that if it never goes in at least the next person to try climbing this Everest can decide beforehand if your footsteps are worth following.
15:23:25[Saint]And how many sherpas to bring...
15:23:44jhMikeSno idea about that...if they're not willing to read the code an understand it to decide, they probably shouldn't bother...I've heard talk about the bugs and how it should be done and this and that for years, when it happens, it encounters more resistance than enthusiasm, which is intriguing to say the least
15:24:08*gevaerts nods
15:24:27gevaertsWe're all afraid of change I suspect
15:24:49[Saint]some more adventurous than others
15:24:51jhMikeScarry paper
15:25:09*[Saint] awards jhMikeS one internet
15:26:18gevaertsWe just released 3.8.1, and we expect 3.9 two months from now. I'd say this is a good time for adventurous changes
15:27:13[Saint]That's generally been the way things swing.
15:28:19 Join smk [0] (smk@
15:28:33smkhi AlexP
15:28:41[Saint]jhMikeS: gevaerts: etc: Perhaps it might be worthwhile to compile a bunch of builds and link then on the unsupported builds page (or where appropriate) for etsting?
15:28:44[Saint]Or, too early?
15:28:55jhMikeSswing it like a, uhm....
15:29:20gevaerts[Saint]: no, for technical reasons
15:29:20[Saint]*testing too
15:29:41jhMikeSmassive codec recording patches were easier even with reliable wav recording, but those were the good 'ol days
15:29:48gevaertsThose would belong in Official Test Builds, not unsupported builds
15:30:12[Saint]Well, I thought of that ;)
15:30:14[Saint]"(or where appropriate)"
15:30:55[Saint]People are far more likely to test it if there's precompiled builds IMO
15:31:16[Saint]and in my understanding, we want to throw a bunch of use cases at it.
15:31:26*gevaerts nods
15:31:26[Saint]so, time like the present?
15:31:39gevaertsjhMikeS' call though. I don't know how ready it is
15:31:46[Saint]I'm using it.
15:31:55[Saint]hasn't blown up my phone yet ;)
15:31:56jhMikeSright now, I don't understand "use cases". playback has one use a list of files and skip around when asked to
15:32:42[Saint]jhMikeS: well, who knows really...
15:32:43jhMikeSone thing I don't know is the scrobbler support even though I know it calls that stuff at the right time, I just haven't bothered
15:32:44gevaertsjhMikeS: I'm sure you're oversimplifying, or I don't understand the thousands of lines :)
15:34:37[Saint]by "use cases" I personally mean "as many users as possible throwing their personal habits at the device and seeing if it still stacks up". Some users do some very weird things ;)
15:34:39jhMikeSnot really, it doesn't have very many responsibilities, most of the fancy junk is implemented elsewhere
15:34:49 Quit GeekShadow (Remote host closed the connection)
15:35:20*jhMikeS would love a concrete example or two of 'weird things'
15:36:57 Part smk ("Leaving")
15:37:00[Saint]weird combinations of config settings, "obscure"TM codecs, extremely diverse codec ranges in playlists...
15:37:05[Saint]"who knows" ;)
15:37:43jhMikeSalready did the second quite a bit
15:38:26soapI would think 3.9 could be delayed in the name of playback engine replacement.
15:38:50gevaertsif needed, yes
15:39:23jhMikeSthe first somewhat too...internally it has three settings: crossfade, skip buffer and cuesheet
15:39:42gevaertsI'd say two months is a long time though, so I'd think it's not *that* likely to be a problem
15:40:22jhMikeSthe rest of the stuff just needs the track notifications at the right time
15:42:26 Join GeekShadow [0] (~Antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow)
15:43:05 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
15:43:09 Join soap [0] (~soap@
15:43:09 Quit soap (Changing host)
15:43:09 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
15:43:51jhMikeSNSF needs a little emergency work thereafter since it can't poke stuff straight into the WPS's data any more
15:44:18 Join soap__ [0] (~soap@
15:44:30 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
15:45:09 Quit soap (Disconnected by services)
15:45:12 Nick soap__ is now known as soap (~soap@
15:45:31 Quit soap (Changing host)
15:45:31 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
15:45:42jhMikeSbut that habit has been admonished lately anyway
15:47:00soapthe whole release thing is arbitrary as is. If a major rework of playback is being offered (and stands up to the critics it will surely face) I really think the gift horse shouldn't be looked in the mouth and everybody (esp users) would be best served by all thoughts of a "release" being delayed until that point in time playback is deemed clean.
15:47:37soapany talk of "3.9" just seems like a distraction.
15:47:49*gevaerts doesn't entirely agree
15:48:16gevaertsIf 3.9 were planned in two weeks, I would *not* commit something like this now
15:48:31jhMikeSI know of some fairly cosmetic glitches with cuesheets and A-B, which really stem from their own implementations , but I'd rather get right on that afterwords even thought they still work properly
15:49:24jhMikeSlet's just go to 11 (big version jumps make it seem that much more special :)
15:49:24gevaertsBig changes and releases interact, and depending on the situation one of them may have to wait
15:50:08gevaertsSo sure, if two months isn't enough, by all means postpone 3.9
15:51:56jhMikeSit's already got weeks of me beating on it looking for problems, using features I didn't even know about until now...I know it's not fragile
15:57:48AlexPsoap: Not particularly arbitrary, as they are at regular intervals
15:57:57AlexPHowever, I would say this is the ideal time
15:58:19AlexPWe can all test a bit, then get it in to be prodded by the userbase
15:58:28AlexPAnd if needs be, 3.9 can be delayed of course
15:59:05AlexPsmk: If you read the logs sorry I missed you again
15:59:20AlexPsmk: Keep prodding, and in response to your query, yes, no problem
16:02:40 Join mudd1 [0] (
16:02:58 Quit cjcopi (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16:04:13 Join cjcopi [0] (
16:05:28 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
16:14:06 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
16:14:36 Quit soap (Quit: Leaving)
16:23:00bertrikCan someone with an ipod accessory do a simple test of a patch I made?
16:36:23 Quit [Saint] (Quit: I'm only going to heaven, if it feels like Hell. I'm only going to heaven, if it tastes like caramel...)
16:37:56 Quit petur (Quit: *plop*)
16:47:44 Join [Saint] [0] (~St.]
16:51:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:58:35 Quit Topy (Quit: Leaving)
16:59:32 Join Topy44 [0] (
17:03:06 Join CaptainKwel [0] (
17:16:19kugelbertrik: I'm not even sure we have someone
17:28:32 Join smk [0] (smk@
17:31:47 Quit Topy44 (Quit: Leaving)
17:32:20bertrikI think soap has a collection but he left before I thought of asking him
17:32:32 Join Topy44 [0] (
17:36:49 Quit zu (Quit: Lost terminal)
17:45:49mshathlonxpwas in past two weeks changed something that could affect ipod video charging?
17:49:19 Join zu [0] (
17:50:06CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29738): sbtools: move internal elf definition to elf.c, implement elf reading ...
17:54:57CIA-87r29738 build result: All green
17:57:28 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (~BHSPitLap@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
17:57:56 Quit TheSeven (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:58:04 Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
17:58:14 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
18:00:27 Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes)
18:01:41 Join JesusChrysler [0] (
18:04:39 Quit leavittx (Remote host closed the connection)
18:09:09 Part smk ("Leaving")
18:22:19 Quit [Saint] (Quit: *PANIC*: sleep_buffer)
18:24:12 Join [Saint] [0] (~St.]
18:27:14 Quit GodEater (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
18:33:15 Join wodz [0] (
18:34:06wodz\o/ - passed lcd initialization step on my rk2705 device
18:35:18pamaurywodz: nice job
18:35:31 Join GodEater [0] (~bibble@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
18:36:08 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@
18:36:08 Quit sideral (Changing host)
18:36:08 Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral)
18:44:06wodzwatching lcd which changes it's color as you told it to is fascinating :-)
18:44:42 Quit krazykit (Quit: awe yeeeeeee)
18:49:40 Quit linuxstb (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
18:50:07 Join linuxstb [0] (~linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
18:50:51wodzall our color targets use 16bit depth?
18:51:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:53:29 Join mudd1 [0] (
18:59:48mshathlonxp<mshathlonxp> was in past two weeks changed something that could affect ipod video charging?
19:00:50 Join Zagor [0] (
19:00:50 Quit Zagor (Changing host)
19:00:50 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
19:07:51wodzmshathlonxp: I don't recall any change in this region
19:10:36mshathlonxpfor last several days I noticed that my ipod running 2 weeks old rockbox build could charge to 100% when connected to PC in USB mode, but not when connected to charger or PC without USB mode
19:11:10mshathlonxptoday I upgraded to current build and now it charged to required voltage while connected to charger
19:13:08*pamaury is missing the understand of 16bytes of his sb file, but it seems these could be the most important ones !
19:13:38 Quit linuxstb (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
19:16:05 Quit komputes (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:22:00 Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:29:09 Join factor [0] (~factor@
19:29:20TheLemonMantalking of the header ?
19:29:42 Join saratoga_ [0] (600afc5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
19:29:59saratoga_jhMikeS: perhaps the audio rework is a good use for a branch in SVN?
19:32:46pamauryTheLemonMan: no
19:32:55pamaurysome hidden commands inbetween sections
19:33:09pamauryI think the section headers are not used by the bootrom
19:33:17pamauryit uses some TAG commands
19:35:59TheLemonManundocumented one ?
19:37:13pamauryI realized this because I'm writing elftosb and noticed a size mismatch. There is the code of elftosb2 of course, but err, it's not very self clear :)
19:38:15TheLemonManmaybe it's a padding issue ?
19:38:44pamauryI don't think so
19:39:04pamaurythe elftosb2 code inserts explicit TAG commands, I'm modifying sbinfo to check this
19:39:14pamauryit uses nop to pad
19:41:52 Join linuxstb [0] (~linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
19:47:03 Join leavittx [0] (~leavittx@
19:47:54 Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201)
19:56:23AlexPjhMikeS: I haven't managed to make it fall over yet :)
20:07:22 Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection)
20:12:07 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:16:26 Join {phoenix} [0] (
20:17:15 Quit saratoga_ (Quit: Page closed)
20:21:01 Quit sideral (Quit: Leaving.)
20:24:10 Join [Saint] [0] (~St.]
20:24:27 Quit DX3 (Quit: Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.)
20:26:01bertrikIt appears that a problem with switching an sd card to high speed on AMSv2 happens on AMSv1 too.
20:27:37 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
20:37:25CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29739): sbtoelf: include a raw command mode to see hidden command used by the bootrom (tag and nop)
20:37:30CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29740): sbtoslf: command size doesn't include itself, but section can be padded with random data
20:37:32CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29741): elftosb: more code toward sb production
20:38:05 Quit BHSPitLappy (Quit: Ex-Chat)
20:41:27 Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:470:28:773:babe:feed:dead:bee)
20:42:10CIA-87r29739 build result: All green
20:46:14CIA-87r29741 build result: All green
20:51:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:52:32bertrikwhere did r29740 go?
20:54:24bluebrotherwho needs that? ;-)
21:00:04 Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky)
21:03:22pamaurynobody :) Anyway, the server doesn't build tools do it ?
21:08:50bluebrotherno, but it builds on tool commits :)
21:10:27pamaurywhat is a "tool commit" ?
21:13:03 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
21:13:30bluebrothera commit in tools/
21:13:45pamauryyeah, mine is in utils/
21:14:15bluebrother(at least that's what I meant, and I meant any tools, so also including Rockbox Utility and utils)
21:15:30 Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@
21:33:23 Join skapazzo [0] (~skapazzo@
21:55:41bluebrothergreat. Now Rockbox Utility voice file creation crashes on Windows instead of only failing :(
22:12:59 Quit [Saint] (Quit: I'm only going to heaven, if it feels like Hell. I'm only going to heaven, if it tastes like caramel...)
22:16:31 Join [Saint] [0] (
22:24:41 Join thotypous [0] (~asdf@unaffiliated/thotypous)
22:27:42 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:27:49 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley)
22:27:54 Quit t0rc (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4)
22:41:27 Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:51:20 Join Zarggg [0] (
22:51:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:56:55 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Destructor called)
22:58:49 Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection)
23:05:36 Quit thotypous (Quit: leaving)
23:05:55 Join liar [0] (
23:11:04 Join krazykit [0] (
23:12:28 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:20:34soapbertrik, I actually don't have a single iPod accessory. I just am a big fan of them being supported.
23:21:56bertrikoh ok, good!
23:23:20bertrikdo we have any devs with an ipod accessory at all?
23:26:32 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia
23:34:58 Quit krazykit (Quit: awe yeeeeeee)
23:37:39 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:45:38wodzI do have fm transmitter for my mini but I don't know if it uses iap at all
23:47:13bertrikmy plan was to get a 2nd hand ipod nano 2g and a cheap fm remote from dealextreme and make that work
23:47:28bertrikwodz, does it have any kind of interaction with the ipod?
23:47:40bertrikor does it just take the line-out signal and put it on FM?
23:48:28wodzlet me check
23:48:34bertrikmy short term plan is to just blindly re-organise / clean up the code a bit
23:50:13saratogawe need someone with a car stereo, these seem to be the most complicated accessories
23:51:00wodzwell it does have serial pads but dunno if it uses it
23:53:19saratogayou could try the OF and see if it goes into any kind of special mode or just treats it like a regular pair of headphones
23:55:05wodzI think it treats it like regular pair of headphones
23:55:06pixelmaI thought gevaerts has a car with Ipod dock and an Ipod
23:55:29 Quit factor (Quit: Leaving)
23:55:35*Bagder knows gevaerts has a green car
23:55:51Bagderoh, that's probably not the same thing... =-P
23:56:16 Join factor [0] (~factor@

Previous day | Next day