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#rockbox log for 2011-05-01

00:00:06saratogabah i've got a vorbis file that plays in the sim, but fails on the clip
00:06:21saratogaoh never mind, win32 sim works, but on linux crashes
00:10:08saratogawoah this Ogg mallocs over 750KB
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00:38:19saratogawhats the tool to see how much memory a codec statically allocates?
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00:49:45saratogajhMikeS: ping
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01:58:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:18:39*jhMikeS witnesses pingyness in his general direction from saratoga
02:19:08saratogai want to make the malloc functions kill decode if they run out of memory
02:19:21saratogais there some easy way to do that short of checking in every possible location for a failed malloc?
02:20:42jhMikeSput it in right in the mallocer, maybe?
02:21:03jhMikeSsetjmp is there for vorbis
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02:25:58saratogaah yeah looks like thats already done then
02:28:28jhMikeSat least natively...why not for the rest?
02:29:18 Quit ender` (Quit: If the experiment works, you must be using the wrong equipment. -- Patrick's Theorem)
02:32:14saratogarest of what?
02:33:33jhMikeSapp builds
02:34:33saratogaah
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02:48:41*jhMikeS now needs to know why speex appears mildly borked
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05:43:05jhMikeSit seems speex is in fact quite troubled in the same way in its old form too, like when resuming it always plays the first second or two of a track and then jumps to the correct point :\
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06:23:34CIA-87New commit by jethead71 (r29804): Clean up speex a bit after the playback changes in r29785. Haven't found any idiosyncracies not present before then. Fix it always returning ...
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06:27:19CIA-87r29804 build result: 18 errors, 72 warnings (jethead71 committed)
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07:59:05Panther21Hey hey
07:59:34Panther21I need to get unbanned from the forums, I was banned over 2 years ago, because I asked to be, can I get unbanned?
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08:00:24Panther21hello?
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08:10:30Strife89You have to give us more than two minutes to respond ....
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09:55:41n1sTheSeven: are you ok with me committing the usb delay patch?
09:56:11n1shmm, maybe someone with a nano2g should test it too
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10:59:15LloreanDo we not have "Pause on Headphone Unplug" on RaaA?
11:00
11:10:31n1shmm, dependancy bug, make doesn't notice when ffmpeg_get_bits.h in the codeclib changes
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11:53:19 Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3AB72.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:57:12Buschelhow do we proceed with the newly introduced warnings/errors through amiconn's build machine?
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12:00:16amiconnThe errors are pseudo-errors; the colouring script needs fixing
12:01:16Buschelamiconn: that's the one thing. the other is: shall we fix those issues? your machine uses a newer gcc, right?
12:02:49amiconnImo the warnings should be fixed if possible. The other otpion would be blocking more warnings, but I don't like that solution
12:03:08amiconnSuch blocks tend to become permanent (iirc we already have some)
12:03:21bertrikWell currently, it's a bit annoying to get build errors reported on every build
12:03:44amiconnThe errors need fixing elsewhere. Who's in charge of that script?
12:04:18amiconnThis is gcc 4.6.1 as the build log says, which is now default in debian unstable
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12:04:30BuschelI have got some fixes for those warnings -> FS #12088. would be good to have some reviews...
12:05:15Buschelfixing the warnings in ffmpeg_get_bits.h is a pain... maybe we should switch block the warning there...
12:06:17bertrikI don't care about debian unstable, I do care about getting bogus warning/errors on every build
12:06:39amiconnThe warnings aren't bogus
12:08:11bertrikamiconn, do you want to force this issue by keeping the build table red?
12:08:55bertrikI find it annoying to have to double-check the build table whenever I commit something.
12:10:43n1sBuschel: yeah the ffmpeg thing is stupif
12:10:45n1sd
12:11:11n1smaybe we can add some attribute or just turn it off as you say
12:11:24Buscheln1s: yes, a macro-hell
12:11:36amiconnI'd rather keep the warnings instead of covering them up
12:12:06amiconnAs I already said, cover-up actions tend to become permanent. This way we have a reminder that something needs fixing
12:12:14amiconnI don't see that as 'forcing'
12:14:37n1smost of them are easy to get rid of
12:14:37Buschelwell, in the case of this very special warning ('set but unused') I think it it less dangerous to just switch it off instead of reworking weird macro stuff which works since ancient times...
12:14:59Buschel(for ffmpeg_get_bits.h that is)
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12:18:17n1sapparently the unused attribute should work
12:19:04bertrikI'd like enabling of these warnings like these to be decided on consciously, not because someone uses <random distro> which has them on by default.
12:19:29n1sbertrik: gcc has them on by default in 4.6
12:19:41n1sit's not a debian thing
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12:21:39bertrikwhatever, distro or gcc version was not my point
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12:23:56TheSevenn1s: what would be the final delay values?
12:24:36n1sTheSeven: the second patch in FS #12083
12:25:23n1si just added the delays that the bootrom has and slightly changed the order to be more similar to the bootrom init
12:26:00TheSeveni'm still curious what's causing usb being connected on bootup to fail
12:26:07TheSevendoes that happen with emcore as well?
12:26:31n1sno
12:27:04n1sin fact i have iloader now i think since i mistakenly used an old installer
12:27:19n1sbut it boots fine with usb connected
12:27:44TheSevenso you might want to compare, as the lowlevel USB driver is essentially copy&paste
12:27:53n1sbut it doesn't really do anything with the usb unless you run an app, right?
12:28:08TheSeventhere's the debugging interface :)
12:30:16n1si should try that then, it's described on the freemyipod wiki somewhere?
12:30:37TheSeveni think it's actually sufficient to check if the device enumerates
12:30:51n1sBuschel: i made a nasty preprocessor thing that works around the warning in the ffmpeg file
12:31:12BuschelI am curious ;)
12:31:15pamaurymust the lcd_update function clock until all the data has be sent to the lcd or not ?
12:32:11TheSevenpamaury: that depends on what your definition of "clock" is, how the hardware works, and how the lcd code works :)
12:32:14TheSevenwhich target?
12:32:36n1sBuschel: http://pastebin.com/P3a9rJjV
12:32:44pamaurys/clock/block :)
12:33:30n1sTheSeven: noting happens if i just start iloader with usb connected, dmesg sees nothing
12:33:46n1sor should i run the emBIOS console thing?
12:33:49TheSeveni don't think so, if dma works on a copy of the framebuffer. if it works on the original source, it needs to
12:33:59TheSevenn1s: no, you should see the device enumerate immediately
12:34:22pamaurythe dma is able to work the framebuffer directly, I don't want to make a copy
12:34:26TheSevennow try booting unplugged, and plugging after the boot menu came up
12:34:48TheSevenpamaury: then you need to block
12:35:03n1sTheSeven: still nothing
12:35:07TheSevenweird
12:35:29TheSevenhm, you'd probably need to add your delays to that as well :)
12:35:53TheSevenpamaury: this bugs me as well, as i'm running into the same thing on nano2g/classic, but rockbox is incapable of doing sane double buffering, both on the LCD and audio side
12:36:20TheSevenand while it's possible to hack your way around that for audio, it isn't possible for the LCD
12:36:21n1sit's interesting that it doesn't hang like rockbox did
12:36:41TheSevenit probably just hung some background thread
12:36:57pamauryok
12:37:21pamaurythat's a shame
12:37:51TheSevenfix it :)
12:38:41pamaurywhen I'm done with the port :)
12:39:22n1shmm, theres one more experiment i should do
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12:42:30pixelmathe reminder thing hasn't worked most of the times I remember if the fixes weren't within a short time frame
12:45:14pixelmajust giving another argument, I don't have a strong opinion on this particular case
12:46:15bluebrotherthe thing is that people get used to the build system showing errors / warnings and start to ignore them. Nevertheless they should get fixed.
12:47:26BuschelI would like to have consistent settings for all build machines though. it is disturbing to see the warnings/errors move from build to build
12:48:15bluebrotherthat's true but how should this work for new compiler options? Does gcc ignore warning options it doesn't understand?
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12:49:42pixelmaI understood Buschel that he thinks all machines should use the same gcc, not sure though
12:52:42bluebrotherwell, using different compilers has the advantage that we have a way to catch warnings different versions of gcc produce
12:53:20bluebrotherusing the same compiler version on all machines means we only get the warnings of that version, and getting more warnings is usually a good thing
12:53:58bluebrother(as in "the compiler warns in more suspicious cases", not as in "the code produces more warning" of course ;-)
12:54:05n1sconfigure already disables some warnings based on gcc version so it isn't that tricky
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12:58:48Buschelhow should the warnings in apps/codecs/speex.c be fixed? commenting page_nb_packets in both places it occurs (like done in FS #12088)? or adding __attribute((unused))__ to the declaration?
12:59:51Buschelseveral of the other warnings make unneeded code visible that can be deleted.
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13:00:51n1sthe asf things look weird to me
13:01:17Buscheln1s: that's the same story like speex.c
13:01:46Buschelthe attribute thing would be better to read imho
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13:02:27n1si mean that the various get functions don't really do anything sionce the return value is discarded
13:02:44n1si'd rather just comment out the whole lines
13:05:44Buschelyou're right. I
13:06:10Buschel*I missed that the bit reader macro does not increment anything. will change it
13:11:25Buschelseems to be the same for speex.c. spx_ogg_page_packets() also does only return a value, but not change anything else
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13:13:22n1sTheSeven: the two hangs look different , the one that the delay patch fixes happens earlier, rb doesn't even enter the usb screen while the start up hang is later
13:13:56n1sthe startup hang also doesn't go away after a reboot after sucessful init
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13:23:59Buscheln1s: does this patch look better now? -> http://pastie.org/1853115
13:28:13*gevaerts thinks the build output parser should be fixed to not show spurious red
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13:28:56n1sBuschel: yeah, looks fine to me
13:31:34n1sTheSeven: the startup hang is definitely in the while (GRSTCTL & 1) loop, if i add a timeout to that it gets past it but usb doesn't actually work.
13:36:54bluebrotherthe script for counting warnings / errors is checklog.pl, correct?
13:37:41TheSevengevaerts: any idea where kugel's reds are coming from?
13:37:56TheSevenisn't that file called arm-support.S rather than support-arm.S?
13:38:22gevaertsbluebrother: yes
13:39:00gevaertsTheSeven: kugel's reds?
13:39:18TheSevenhm, no, I must have renamed that while copying it to emcore...
13:39:22TheSevenhttp://build.rockbox.org/shownewlog.cgi?rev=29800;type=cowond2
13:39:35TheSevenyet another race condition?
13:40:15gevaertshm, right
13:40:21TheSevenhm, but the compilation calls for both incarnations of that file are way before the error
13:40:28TheSevenso that must be some other weirdness
13:40:41gevaertsI think I've seen that sort of red before, but I've never understood it
13:42:46CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29805): Fix several 'variable set but not used' warnings reported from GCC 4.6.0.
13:43:10Buschellet's see
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13:46:09n1sshould i commit that nasty attribute thing?
13:46:46CIA-87r29805 build result: All green
13:47:40TheSevendo we even have non-__GNUC__ compilers?
13:47:41bluebrotherhmm, shouldn't be too hard to fix. Just filter out those "In file included from" lines
13:47:57bluebrotherlike http://pastebin.com/Tz5k8Jte (diff is reversed −− d'oh!)
13:48:44n1sTheSeven: no
13:49:25Buschelthis "all green" is a bit misleading now...
13:51:15n1sthis is not a delay thing at least, adding 1 sec delays between every step in the init doesn't help
13:52:08TheSevenyeah you should probably fix the bug in emcore as well, and then check if that one hangs on boot as well
13:53:00n1syeah, but i haven't set up the build stuff for that
13:53:31TheSevenhm, maybe it's a too rapid succession between disabling and enabling the OTG/PHY clocks?
13:53:44TheSevenif it's connected on boot, there will be a enable-disable-enable sequence
13:54:53pamauryTheSeven: any progress with the bootrom usb disassembly of the clip+
13:55:13*n1s tests adding a delay after usb_drv_exit();
13:55:30TheSevenpamaury: nope
13:55:32bluebrothergevaerts: does it make sense committing this change? Or does someone need to push the change to go live anyway (in which case committing it doesn't make much sense, perhaps someone knows a better way to fix this)?
13:57:05gevaertsbluebrother: as far as I know one of the Swedes has to update on the server
13:57:14gevaertsBut I think this is the best way
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13:57:43bluebrotherok. I'll leave it for now and hopefully tonight someone of the swedes can have a look
13:58:04bluebrotherbut IMO removing those false errors should be done soonish.
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14:02:33n1sinteresting, if i break out of the loop after a timeout, a subsequent usb connection doesn't work either but times out again so there seems to be some weird state thing
14:03:38pamauryarf, I can't get the colors right on the fuze+ in 16-bit mode !
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14:14:44bluebrotherhmpf, updating mingw-cross-env didn't fix the NVDA not speaking issue. Not that I'm surprised but still :(
14:26:43pamauryah, finally a nice rockbox logo
14:30:33linuxstbBuschel: Have you looked at that ffmpeg_get_bits.h code in current ffmpeg/libav?
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14:38:48*pamaury hesistate to commit his fuze+ code
14:38:53pamaury*hesitate
14:45:00CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29806): sbtools: do not rely on the ELF flags and always assume the entry point is valid
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14:48:18CIA-87r29806 build result: 17 errors, 51 warnings (pamaury committed)
14:49:43pamauryhuh ?
14:50:48pamaurywtf, the build table shows no error
14:51:13pamauryhum, these are not my errors !
14:51:34pixelmait does and those are still the gcc errors that were talked about earlier
14:51:54pixelmaa few fixed though
14:53:32CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29807): Add imx_hid_recovery_tool to send a sb file to a imx chip using the HID recovery mode
14:54:04 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
14:57:09CIA-87r29807 build result: All green
14:58:11pamauryis there something special I should commit with the initial commit of the fuze+ ?
15:00
15:02:52CIA-87New commit by pamaury (r29808): Sansa Fuze+: initial commit (bootloader only, LCD basically working)
15:08:15CIA-87r29808 build result: 0 errors, 9 warnings (pamaury committed)
15:12:03Buschellinuxstb: asking because of the warnings?
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15:17:11linuxstbBuschel: Yes, I was wondering if they had been fixed there.
15:18:02Buschellinuxstb: n1s made a patch for this −− he did not submit it yet -> http://pastebin.com/P3a9rJjV
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15:48:31CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29809): Fix further 'variable set but not used' warnings reported from GCC 4.6.0.
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15:52:56CIA-87r29809 build result: All green
15:58:27Buschelsaratoga: you there?
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16:00:30Buschellibwmapro\wmaprocodec.c, line 1384-1397 looks strange...
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16:05:33Buschelhmm, forget about it... it's fine
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16:44:26CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29810): Fix nearly all residual 'variable set but not used' warnings reported from GCC 4.6.0.
16:46:43Buscheldoes anybody have a free spc file available?
16:48:00CIA-87r29810 build result: All green
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18:53:25CIA-87New commit by nls (r29811): Work around another 'set but not used' warning.
18:53:46*n1s went for the simple but non compiler portable version
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18:57:50CIA-87r29811 build result: All green
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19:29:52n1shmm, someone has reported the same usb issues i have on the classic for nano2g
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20:33:13n1shmm
20:36:10*n1s seems to have fixed the startup hang too but what change did it and why?
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21:03:39n1syay, fix seems reliable
21:03:57n1sanyone with a classic or nano2g who want to try FS #12083?
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21:08:29*n1s found a bug report for nano2g
21:20:26bluebrothern1s: I have a nano2g but am a bit busy right now. I can give it a try later tonight
21:20:52n1sgreat
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21:53:28lovasoaHi
21:54:05lovasoaDoes anyone knows why the "Database" menu is not localized ?
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22:16:02kugelbertrik: ping
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22:17:49CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29812): Correct manual: rockbox support APEv2 metadata tags.
22:18:05 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:18:46kugelbertrik: I think IAP could be converted to use the multimedia button mechanism, to allow playback controls (from the docs) anywhere not just the wps
22:21:46CIA-87r29812 build result: All green
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22:32:22bertrikkugel, possibly, I don't know the multimedia button mechanism
22:33:36CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29813): Remove tabs.
22:33:52kugelbertrik: add #define HAVE_MULTIMEDIA_BUTTONS, then queue_post(&button_queue, MULTIMEDIA_PLAYPAUSE) etc. at the appropriate places should be it
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22:36:55CIA-87r29813 build result: All green
22:38:56bertrikargh, we have many more tabs in the code, even in firmware\
22:40:28amiconnBuschel: Are you sure this is correct: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/gui/option_select.c?r1=29808;r2=29809;pathrev=29809
22:40:41LloreanWhere do they come from? Maybe someone hasn't noticed a misconfigured editor or something?
22:40:52bertrikkugel, indeed it looks nicer to me to make a remote act like a bunch of buttons, rather than controlling playback directly
22:41:41LloreanI'd personally rather a remote offer me the full functionality of Rockbox (that is, if voice is on, browse the menus, set up playlists, etc)
22:41:58LloreanEspecially since I can control my iPod from my car steering wheel, making driving much safer if I want to adjust anything.
22:43:04bluebrothersounds like we need an option ;-)
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22:46:33Buschelamiconn: I cannot see anything wrong in there.
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22:47:33bertrikLlorean, many tabs are in apps/plugins, which is often external code adapted to rockbox. Tabs in firmware seem to be limited to just 6 files.
22:48:48linuxstbbertrik: The trouble with cleaning tabs is that it pollutes the svn history
22:49:11bertrikLlorean, with respect to buttons and iap: I don't have a good overview yet
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22:50:05bertriklinuxstb, it doesn't bother me *that* much, so I won't rush to fix them
22:50:48amiconnBuschel: The minimum is not necessarily zero, and there's also the ASCENDING_INT_SETTINGS case, where min and max are switched
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22:51:52amiconnHmm, weird.
22:52:07Buschelamiconn: the local variable "mín" is not used after setting any of those values.
22:52:09amiconn'min' seems to be unused in general - hwo is this supposed to work?
22:52:53amiconnLooks like it's relying on 'steps'
22:53:50*amiconn still thinks the logic is weird
22:54:38amiconnActually it's backwards. Imo it should be switched to rely on 'min' and 'steps' instead of 'max' and 'steps'
22:55:43 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection)
22:57:08amiconnIt's interesting that these changes actually reduce binsize a bit on many targets. That means earlier gcc didn't optimize those unused values away
23:00
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23:12:44CIA-87New commit by Buschel (r29814): Display the correct sign of replaygain for levels from -0.99 to -0.01 dB.
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23:16:59CIA-87r29814 build result: All green
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23:18:26kugelLlorean: it depends how the dock is designed I guess; it may offer navigation buttons and playback control buttons
23:19:11LloreanAre there such docks?
23:20:00kugelI don't know, you can still navigate with the ipod itself
23:20:22LloreanWhich completely negates the benefits to safety I suggested it could have.
23:20:28kugelbut you don't usually put into a dock to browse through menus or play games from the sofa, do you?
23:20:41LloreanMaybe find out if there are such docks before restricting functionality from the dock?
23:21:13kugelI guess making it worth with multimedia buttons is how it works with the OF, now?
23:21:17kugelno*
23:22:33LloreanWhy do we care what the OF does?
23:22:45LloreanShould we really limit what functions of the player can be accessed via the dock to match the OF's restrictions?
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23:24:26kugelI wouldn't call it adding limitations
23:24:31bluebroth3rI have a dock thats remote has buttons for up, down, ffwd, rew, play/pause, vol up, vol down and a few more
23:24:49bluebroth3rso what "multimedia" purpose is an "up" button?
23:24:49kugelbertrik: did you mean to disagree with me?
23:25:20Lloreankugel: "not allowing the user to access the menus from the dock" isn't an added limitation?
23:25:26kugelbluebroth3r: none, still act as up :)
23:25:46bluebroth3rand what does "up" in "multimedia mode"?
23:25:58kugelthere's no multimedia mode
23:26:01bluebroth3rbtw, that remote also has a button labelled "enter"
23:26:17bluebroth3ryou're talking about multimedia buttons so there has to be some kind of multimedia mode
23:26:22bluebroth3rat least button-wise
23:26:39kugelso your dock has extra buttons for navigation, those wouldn't change
23:27:22kugelbluebroth3r: no mode involved, the multimedia buttons are additional buttons which work along with normal ones
23:27:51bluebroth3rand why are they multimedia buttons? Isn't Rockbox a multimedia player anyway?
23:28:53bertrikkugel, no I didn't mean to disagree
23:29:41kugelyou said it sounds nicer to act as remote buttons rather than controlling playback directly
23:29:53LloreanI'd just like a mode where, whatever the minimum set of buttons a remote can have as per Apple's rules, as much of Rockbox as possible can still be reached.
23:29:54kugelwhich is status quo and not what I propose :)
23:30:50kugelbluebroth3r: like on a computer keyboard with such such buttons; they're labelled with play, prev, next etc
23:31:06*bluebroth3r thinks that naming is stupid
23:31:50kugelI didn't name them, that's what the whole world uses
23:32:46kugelup, down, enter and what's else on your remote aren't multimedia buttons and can be used for navigation just fine
23:33:19LloreanDo we know if there's a minimum set of required buttons on remotes for these?
23:33:51kugelI don't
23:34:19bluebroth3rthat's the thing btw: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/IMAG0144.jpg
23:35:21bluebroth3rthough I'm not completely sure if the volume buttons are sent to the Ipod at all. My first tests rather looked like this only affects the line volume as passed by the dock
23:37:30LloreanI mean shouldn't that be where this discussion happens? Figure out whether we're okay with saying "some people aren't allowed to go to the menu if their remote only has multimedia buttons"
23:37:38LloreanBut also find out if there are remotes that only have these buttons.
23:40:51bertrikI guess we just try to support each one as well as possible
23:42:59LloreanIf you can detect what it has, sure.
23:48:16bluebroth3rwell, those "multimedia" buttons on a pc create different keycodes so they don't interfere with the normal buttons
23:49:02bluebroth3rwhich leads to the question if iap has such "multimedia" buttons defined at all
23:49:39bluebroth3rif not, how could we identify such buttons?
23:49:40Lloreanbluebroth3r: I've seen very simple iPod remotes that only have a Play/Stop, Vol+, Vol-, Next, and Prev button
23:50:07LloreanEven if those created different keycodes from up/down/left/right, you wouldn't be able to do anything outside the WPS from them if we treated them as dedicated multimedia in that situation.
23:50:08bluebroth3rno menu?
23:50:28LloreanEven if it had menu, if "next" was always next track, and Vol+ was always volume up, what would you do in the menu?
23:50:43LloreanBut you could hold play-pause to stop, then select a new playlist through navigation, for example
23:50:48LloreanOr if the playlist ended, you could select a new one.
23:50:52bluebroth3rnothing useful :)
23:51:33LloreanBut if Next/Prev and Vol+/Vol- worked as right/left and up/down (in situations where the remote didn't have buttons dedicated for such), you could navigate menus and access much more of the player via the remote.
23:52:41LloreanI mean, that's basically what we did with the GIgabeat F remote. I guess we *could* have the iPod less functional while using a remote than our other players, but it wouldn't make much sense.
23:52:59bluebroth3rmy point is that the usual buttons are mapped in Rockbox. So now treating them as "multimedia" buttons means creating a different keymap for device and dock
23:53:25Lloreanbluebroth3r: We have 'remote' keymaps on the H100, so I don't think that's too big a deal
23:53:45bluebroth3rwhich doesn't sound like a good idea to me
23:53:55LloreanTo me the key is making sure that as long as there's a minimum set of buttons available, the user doesn't need to handle the player to access things
23:54:14bluebroth3rtrue, but the h100 has different buttons on the remote
23:54:37LloreanTrue.
23:55:11kugelbluebroth3r: the iap code makes BUTTON_RC_* keycodes, so they're separate already
23:55:22bluebroth3rplus those have even labels that don't exist on the player, so things are somewhat different
23:56:00bluebroth3rkugel: I wad talking about the wire side, not code
23:56:03Lloreankugel: SO what happens to people who have a remote that only has the buttons on the iPod? Or less buttons? Are they stuck because these are now "multimedia" buttons, and can't do anything if playback isn't happening?
23:56:40kugelthey can use the controls on ipod to navigate
23:56:57kugelif you navigate you need to be at the doc anyway, due to the tiny screen
23:57:10LloreanSo we should require them to actually get up and go to the iPod to make life *very* marginally easier for people with remotes with extra buttons?
23:57:11bluebroth3rshouldn't those have at least play/pause in any case?
23:57:20kugelwith multimedia buttons you can use a remote control (if exists) to control playback from the sofa
23:57:24Lloreankugel: You're completely unaware of the voice UI then? And ignoring the "in car" use I described earlier?
23:57:49kugelnavigation buttons on the dock and the ipod (which is on the dock) is redundant anyway
23:57:53LloreanIf you map the buttons to what they do on the hardware, someone can access *everything* in Rockbox from the couch anyway
23:58:34Lloreankugel: What's the benefit of locking *some* remotes out of functionality, just so other remotes can access it in more ways?
23:58:41bluebroth3r*if* extra buttons create extra iap commands (on the wire that is) then thosr can get mapped
23:58:45LloreanWhy is that better than "all (or most) remotes can access all functionality"?

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