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#rockbox log for 2011-05-02

00:00:27kugelLlorean: I still don't agree with loss of functionality. multimedia buttons to unconditionally control playback adds convinience in my book
00:00:43LloreanConvenience as the cost of the ability of a remote like to change playlists, ever.
00:01:09LloreanSo you're willing to sacrifice some users' ability to actually *do* things at all, so that other users can do it *slightly* more conveniently
00:01:28 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:01:30bluebroth3ryes, *if* and only *if* those buttons can get distinguished from the normal ones
00:01:39kugelyou need to look onto the screen to interact with playlists, no? in that case you can use the ipod itself
00:01:50LloreanWith a remote like the one I linked, there's *no* reason why you shouldn't be able to access anything in core Rockbox.
00:01:55Lloreankugel: VOICE UI.
00:01:59LloreanHow many times do I have to say that to you?
00:02:01LloreanOr are you just ignoring it?
00:02:22bluebroth3rI don't think that's the case though but haven't checked
00:02:27 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
00:02:28kugelI didn't see it before
00:02:37Lloreankugel: That is literally the third time I mentioned it.
00:02:44kugelI didn't see it before
00:02:44LloreanNot to mention, you know it exists.
00:03:05LloreanIf I'm in the car, using the controls on my steering wheel, it's *vastly* safer for me to browse through playlists via the voice UI than to pick up the iPod and look at the screen
00:03:16LloreanYou want to take that option away entirely in favor of a *slight* added convenience.
00:03:35LloreanWhich is "the ability to do things in the menu rather than having to press play first, then do them"
00:03:35kugelok, I see that.
00:03:38LloreanIt saves *one* button press
00:03:43LloreanLiterally, in most cases.
00:03:54LloreanTwo if we assume they're going to leave the WPS to resume what they're doing after.
00:04:28LloreanAnd in the hypothetical case of the user who doesn't have voice, so will need to get up anyway, they should never leave the WPS in the first place. So your "multimedia buttons" will always do "multimedia things" for that user anyway
00:04:46 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia
00:04:47LloreanSo I'm not sure the benefit of having them work in the menu with the remote in the first place.
00:05:06LloreanAs I said though, I'm all for it *if* we can distinguish 'minimal' remotes from 'full featured' ones somehow
00:05:44bluebroth3ras I said before: such extra buttons are nice if they can be distinguished from the "normal set" of buttons
00:05:55*bluebroth3r slow
00:06:49Lloreanbluebroth3r: The problem is, the normal set of buttons are Play, Next, Prev, Vol+, and Vol- probably. The extras are the "navigation buttons", yet in the presence of such buttons it's the buttons that are always there that we'd want to change.
00:07:01LloreanSo not just distinguishing the buttons is the problem, but knowing they're present in the first place
00:08:48 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
00:14:28LloreanI asked this last night but nobody was around.
00:14:37LloreanIs there a reason there doesn't seem to be "pause on headphone unplug" on RaaA?
00:14:55LloreanOr, RaaA android, specifically
00:15:46 Quit FoH (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:17:10bluebroth3rLlorean: well, yes. Basically iap would need to support "play" and "always-play" as saparate buttons
00:19:16*bluebroth3r guesses it's simply that nobody implemented headphone detection on Android
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00:20:43Lloreanbluebroth3r: Ah, I was just wondering if it was that or if there might be a technical reason.
00:20:53 Quit mudd1 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:21:04*Llorean really enjoys leaving audible running and depending on headphone detection to know when I want to continue listening to my book.
00:22:35bluebroth3rI've missed that feature myself already. Too much things to do for the available amount of free time ...
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00:25:30saratoga_whats holding up getting Android builds working with the build system?
00:25:32LloreanI never really used it much on other MP3 players I've had.
00:25:57LloreanI could usually press the button fine, but pausing on android requires unlocking the screen and generally more handling.
00:26:28 Quit bertrik (Quit: :tiuQ)
00:27:06LloreanHas there been any discussion of how to address the lack of long presses on the widget?
00:27:35LloreanPerhaps seek buttons that toggle seek on/off? Or perhaps being able to set a skip length exclusively for use on the widget, so that one can skip forward/back 30 seconds at a time on the widget, but not have to remember to turn that off when using the normal WPS?
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05:49:27 Join coden [0] (
05:50:34codenWho can patch Rockbox to save a listen track's position when the player shuts down because of an empty battery, or make it a bookmark at this moment? It should be useful for listening long audiobooks.
05:51:09codenModel of player Sansa Clip +
05:51:56saratogathat already happens if possible
05:59:00codensaratoga, how to adjust
05:59:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:00:45codenAt me last version Rockbox
06:01:12codenThere it is impossible
06:03:21saratogadid it used to work for you?
06:09:10saratogayou're right, just tried pulling the battery and it doesn't resume
06:09:57saratogaalthough actually thats different then low battery
06:10:05saratogasince that should still shutdown and save state
06:10:58saratoganot sure how to test that short of running the battery down
06:11:59Lloreancoden: Do you have 'bookmark on stop' enabled?
06:12:25codenLlorean, yes
06:12:36LloreanDoes it bookmark when you manually stop?
06:13:49LloreanThen the battery may just be dying at a higher level than Rockbox expects it to, so that there's not a chance to write the bookmark.
06:17:13codenIt is necessary that Rockbox to save a listen track's position when the player shuts down because of an empty battery, or make it a bookmark at this moment
06:17:30saratogaif you get the "low battery" shutdown message then it should have made a bookmark if I understand that code correctly
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06:17:54saratogaif it just hard powers off, then nothing gets written to storage
06:18:18codensaratoga yes
06:18:35codenif it just hard powers off, then save
06:18:46saratogawell thats not possible
06:18:53LloreanSometimes it doesn't power off, but rather runs out of power while still on. Then it may fail to save.
06:19:10saratogalooking at the code it doesn't write the bookmark if the battery is below a certain threshold, that actually might not be needed on flash devices
06:20:08Lloreansaratoga: Probably not, since there's no spinup needed.
06:22:40saratogaha it writes the scrobbler log regardless
06:22:47saratogaso i guess if thats safe, writing out the resume info should be fine too
06:24:20saratogaah no it doesn't
06:24:26saratogai misread
06:29:05saratogai wonder how useful this is though, i thought we shut down before the battery reached critical levels anyway
06:29:22saratogaalthough maybe if your battery is very old they both happen at about the same time
06:30:36codenold battery
06:31:10codennecessary to trace charge level
06:31:51codenAnd to keep a bookmark before deenergizing
06:33:19codendifficult to make it?
06:38:07codenWhy developers have not provided it
06:39:40LloreanThey have, but we're having a hard time explaining it to you due to language difficulties.
06:40:10LloreanRockbox already saves playback position when shutting down, unless your battery is too old for it to be able to do it reliably, or unless there is a bug.
06:43:41codenunderstand, thanks
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07:07:05pixelmais our forum software not DST aware in the time offset setting?
07:07:29pixelmahmm, or maybe there is a location setting
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07:21:19Peddywhile doing sansaams recovery by bridging two pads, should the sansa logo appear when i plug usb in?
07:21:30Peddyi.e., does the sansa logo appear when it's entering recovery mode?
07:29:16saratogaPeddy: no, when you bridge the pads, you disable all the sandisk code on the system
07:29:32saratogai've never done it, but i doubt much shows up on the screen
07:33:10Peddysaratoga, thank you. i was soldering incorrectly, apparently. heh, I'm repairing an old fuze (its LCD connection is broken) and going to put a 'headless' rockboxed fuze inside a shower radio
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07:59:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:10:36saratogaB4gder: would it be possible to raise the flyspray file limit from 2MB to 4-5MB so that its easier for people to report files that crash rockbox?
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08:24:17saratogaBuschel: maybe close FS #12046?
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08:51:33JoshuaChangdoes it possible to use a very large delay-line array in the dsp.c?
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09:59:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:07:23*n1s looks at the weird database crash when using simplified chinese
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10:11:23n1shas something changed with the sim and gdb, it's not being very friendly
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10:20:49JoshuaChanghow to reproduce?
10:21:32n1sFS #12088
10:23:31JoshuaChangReduce warnings?
10:24:02n1sah, sorry 12065
10:27:25n1sgdb is being weird though, it often cannot step through a function or find vars in the context
10:28:29JoshuaChangwell……i never use gdb......
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10:32:40JoshuaChanghave tried in d2 simulator, seems no error?
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12:22:30Peddyis it possible, on a hardware level, to pause music when headphones are unplugged?
12:24:23Peddyis it hardware-dependent?
12:25:50[Saint]I should think that depends on the hardware.
12:26:31PeddyI think so too (which explains why my Fuze doesn't have the setting, but iPods apparently do). Pity.
12:26:50[Saint]Devices that are capable of this already have this setting.
12:27:10[Saint]So, if it's missing it either can't be done, or hasn't been done.
12:27:28[Saint]which of those two it is, though, I'm unsure.
12:27:29PeddyAh, thanks. Do you have any idea how the hardware physically achieves this?
12:29:19Peddyah, it measures impedence! thanks google, thanks [Saint].
12:33:18Llorean[Saint]: not all hardware physically capable has the setting. In some cases it's not enabled yet.
12:34:02[Saint]that's kinda what I meant by "or hasn't been done", though...I hope you and I mean the same thing.
12:34:14LloreanOh, yeah
12:34:20LloreanSomehow I read right through that without seeing it. Sorry
12:34:21[Saint]'twould be pretty sily if it were possible, and the code just sitting there, and it not enabled.
12:34:47[Saint]No worries, just making sure we were on the same page.
12:49:49JoshuaChangcompile target error, need help:
12:49:51JoshuaChang/usr/local/lib/gcc/arm-elf-eabi/4.4.4/../../../../arm-elf-eabi/bin/ld: /cygdrive
12:49:52JoshuaChang/f/rockbox/rb_wdhge/d2p/rockbox.elf section `.iram' will not fit in region `SRAM
12:49:55JoshuaChang/usr/local/lib/gcc/arm-elf-eabi/4.4.4/../../../../arm-elf-eabi/bin/ld: region `S
12:49:56JoshuaChangRAM' overflowed by 111424 bytes
12:50:10JoshuaChangin simulator build, it's ok
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12:54:22[Saint]JoshuaChang: Expand the IRAm to accomodate.
12:55:13[Saint]oh, I read that wrong
12:55:20JoshuaChangdoes iramsize related to hardware?
12:55:50[Saint]I read it wrong, I read idea what you did to overflow SRAM.
12:56:18JoshuaChangi wrote a reverb effect, it's delayline eat about 120000bytes memory
12:56:43[Saint]what target is this?
12:56:54JoshuaChangcowon d2+
12:59:29[Saint]does that still use the TCC780x CPU?
13:00:38[Saint]if I'm right, it should be sufficient to increase the SRAM size in firmware/target/arm/tcc780x/
13:02:50[Saint]Aha, yes...yes, that should work.
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13:06:24JoshuaChangi think the sram was related to hardware?
13:06:24JoshuaChangi've searched that the tcc7801 only have 96k onchip sram
13:07:28JoshuaChangthat's mean, although i have all the sram in hand, i still didn't have enough memory to run the reverb
13:07:28gevaertsYou can't magically add RAM like that...
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13:08:34[Saint]gevaerts: No, I realise that...but I should have looked at the amount it overflowed by.
13:09:15JoshuaChangi have deleted the IDATA_ATTR in my struct definition, now it can build, maybe it will affect the speed...
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13:10:14gevaertsWell, it won't really affect the speed, since it won't even run with IDATA_ATTR :)
13:11:38JoshuaChangwhat does the iram exactly mean? does it related to chip hardware, or it just occupy the system memory?
13:11:38n1sheh, it depends on the cpu but if it has a cache it should be reasonably fine with dram
13:12:00n1siram is usually chip internal sram
13:12:20n1sso usually faster although not on all chips
13:13:29JoshuaChangwell, i don't think my "huge" arrays should run on "high cost" sram
13:15:18n1syou should probably buffer_alloc it if you want to get that committed
13:17:29n1sas 120k is quite a chunk of memory on some targets, see how other things do it
13:17:29JoshuaChangi have little experience on c programming
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13:29:34JoshuaChangJesus, the reverb eat 120MHz cpu on d2 targets!
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15:43:41 Nick kugel_ is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
15:45:32kugeln1s: I had gdb weirdness recently with another piece of software
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15:47:31kugelJoshuaChang: try plugin_get_buffer()
15:47:56n1syeah, could be entirely unrelated to rb, did you get valgrind to work with the sim?
15:47:58kugelalthough that probably won't give you 120k if it fails to link statically
15:48:20kugeln1s: IIRC valgrind doesn't work with our sim unless you pass −−sdl-threads to configure
15:49:09n1sah, i looked in the advanced options but didn't see it
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15:49:56n1sthe two config interfaces apparenlty don't have the same options, lovely
15:50:13n1si'll try this later
15:52:06kugelyea, it's not very consistent
15:52:13kugelbut configure −−help should have it
15:52:41n1syeah, i juast never thought there were options only on the command line...
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18:30:00bertrikIs there any kind of decision on the -Wunused-but-set-variable kind of warnings now?
18:30:54bertrikIf we decide to accept having this warning enabled for gcc 4.6, maybe we should also enable it for other compilers.
18:32:12[7]is there any way to have hidden settings currently? (only shown somewhere in the debug menu / shown nowhere at all, configured by editing config.cfg)
18:33:12bertrikNo, I don't think so.
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18:36:26amiconnDon't we use -Wall ?
18:36:43amiconn(and then disable a few specific things)
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18:37:13amiconnI thought the unused variable warning was added in 4.6 only, but that doesn't seem to be the case
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18:38:48sideralSaint: You're the only other database user in this chat, aren't you? ;)
18:39:17[Saint]One of the very few, yes.
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18:39:31bertriksideral, I use the database, but I usually just browse by Album Artist and do nothing other fancy
18:39:44sideralDo you guys have any opinion on FS #12054 −− Highlight each album's last-played track in database views?
18:40:18[Saint]I was just considering chucking it in my RaaA tree earlier :)
18:40:39[Saint]I have no strong opinion about it as yet, having not reviewed it properly.
18:41:17sideralSaint: OK, I'd be interested in your review once you've played with it a bit :)
18:41:24[Saint]sideral: Am I to understand that this is completely seperate from "Follow Playlist"?
18:41:42[Saint]I kinda see it as an extension of that.
18:42:03sideralYes, it is. It's meant for audiobooks, so that the right chapter is selected next time you browse an interrupted audiobook
18:42:54sideralbut it does its thing for each DB view displaying tracks (typically album views)
18:43:42sideralSomething to review for you: I wonder whether it should be the default or needs to be more configurable
18:44:29[Saint]It needs to be configurable, I'd like to see it integrated with the follow playlist setting.
18:44:50[Saint]well, when *I* say "needs", it obviously means very little ;)
18:45:10sideralFollow playlist is an inter-album thing, isn't it? I've never used it so far
18:46:34[Saint]I don't have a target handy, so I might miss some things it does, but it drops you back to the dir that playback was launched from in the filebrowser if it's selected.
18:46:58[Saint]with the selector at the last played track.
18:47:32[Saint]That's why I see the two as being very similar...but, the needn't be joined at the hip.
18:48:03sideralAh, interesting. I need to play with it. Anyway, this feature provides a per-album resume point for browsing, not just one global resume point
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18:49:17[Saint]Right, so that is quite different. the fact that it's per album.
18:50:37[Saint]Right, it's not as similar to Follow Playlist as I suspected. But it should be configurable.
18:51:29sideralGlobally, or per directory hierarchy, or in tagnavi.config?
18:52:20[Saint]Globally IMO, just "on/off, yes/no, whatever"
18:53:55sideralYou wouldn't mind this feature highlighting the last-played track in a music album?
18:54:48[Saint]Not particularly, I don't think the media type has too much effect on its use.
18:55:20[Saint]It could be useful for video too if/when the DB can catalogue this also.
18:55:47*[Saint] is thinking big :P
18:56:09sideralOK, thanks for your comments, and I'm looking forward to any comments you have after playing with it!
18:56:16sideralAnother DB-related question: Does anyone remember the rationale for DB track resurrection allowing resurrection for tracks that have both been renamed and retagged (in one of their {album,artist,title} tags)? This is causing problems -> FS #12076
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18:57:08sideralI'm thinking about removing this particular heuristic
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19:00:57sideralLooks like Slasheri hasn't frequented this channel for the past month or so; I'd really like to ask him what his intuition was in this case
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19:42:48saratogais there someway to hide my email on Flyspray?
19:43:15*[7] would like to have a power consumption measurement mode, that:
19:43:22[7]- removes USB current limits
19:43:33[7]- powers down USB data circuitry (OTG/PHY)
19:43:40[7]- disables charging (if possible)
19:43:54sideralsaratoga: I thought it's only shown to users that have logged in
19:44:21saratogayeah, but i'd still rather people who have problems ask in IRC then email me at work
19:45:28sideraluse your spare-time email address then?
19:45:52saratogawell i like getting notification emails in general
19:46:12sideraluse a forwarding filter at your spare-time email address?
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19:53:51saratogai wonder if people will eventually begin using those cortex M processors in mp3 players
19:56:54pixelma[Saint]: do you use a touchscreen WPS that has *fwd or *rew touch region actions with your apk? For some reason my WPS even fails to load now and the only thing I did was changing the &fwd/rew to *fwd/rew as suggested
19:58:01pixelmahmm... ffwd, need to check if something got lost there
19:59:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:00:03Horschthey, just a quick question: what is the default capacity (in mA) of a Ipod Video 5.5G? It seems Rockbox is set to 300mA by default, which... sounds a bit weak to me
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20:01:19pixelma[Saint]: damn, that was it. Sorry for the false alarm
20:02:47pixelma(and *rwd but that was correct, just lost one f while deleting the & from the &ffwd ;) )
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20:04:41BuschelHorscht: default should be 400 mAh (=30 GB model). the battery capacity of the 60 GB model is 600 mAh
20:05:12Horscht60Gb is 5G, but I assume the 80Gb 5.5G would have the same as the 60?
20:05:27Buschelyes, 60/80 is the same
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20:06:13Horschtah, it's set to 400 by default
20:06:18Horschtso I had to up it to 600
20:06:22Horschtthanks Buschel
20:06:36Buschelyou're welcome
20:06:54*gevaerts still has to fix that...
20:06:54[Saint]doe sthat setting actually *do* anything?
20:06:59HorschtI had a hard time finding that answer on google
20:07:02[Saint]It's just for runtime estimation no?
20:07:11gevaerts[Saint]: yes, that's all
20:07:11Horscht[Saint], it improves the battery estimation, yes
20:09:48Horschtah, the manual is where it's hidden :D
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20:28:45pixelmasurprise ;)
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20:36:22pixelma[7]: there could still be the hidden horizontal scroll setting that you can only set via cfg file but I don't know if it still exists and how it is called exactly - I believe something with "lrscoll" in it though longer and I'm not sure at all). I actually didn't want to advertise that one because I don't like it though
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20:44:40[Saint]pixelma: Isn't that "hidden" .cfg setting exposed if you dump the config through "Manage Settings"?
20:45:25[Saint]iirc, that doesn't just list config settings that have changed, but all settings.
20:47:18pamauryI'm confused, only one key of the fuze+ seems to wired to a GPIO or I'm missing something :-/
20:49:13saratogamaybe they've got some stupid other way of reading pins like on the Fuze
20:49:30saratogawhere half of them are driven by one of the LCD bus pins
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20:50:04pamauryI don't know, I'll have to reverse engineer the OF :(
20:52:52pixelma[Saint]: indeed it is. The setting is called... hold_lr_for_scroll_in_lists
20:53:56bertrikpamaury, I thought the fuze+ used some touch keys, so I guess you can poll some bitmap from the touch key controller
20:56:09pamaurybertrik: the touch keys do not concern the power button and volume up/down
20:56:18pixelmadefaults to on and IIRC one reason to make it settable was that it interfered with the Ondio buttonmap as this one doesn't have a Select button so uses holding right for context menu (way more important than forcing horizontal scroll) but I also seem to remember that the setting itself also didn't work correctly and so the buttonmap problem was solved differently by assigning a combo for the scrolling
20:57:16[Saint]what's the reasoning for hiding it?
20:57:30[Saint]it's something I always turn off as I don't see the point.
20:58:01pixelmaI don't remember
20:58:33pixelmaas I said, I don't like hidden settings at all
20:58:56[Saint]Nor I, especially if no one can remember a good reson for it being this way ;)
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21:59:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:05:50bluebroth3rwoah, \tblhdrstrut? That's really a nonintuitive name for a macro :(
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22:11:34n1s[7]: yeah there are settings that are just in the .cfg, like the playlist catalog dir
22:11:42n1sand the one pixelma mentioned
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22:12:04n1si don't particularly like this in general
22:13:42n1s[7]: i managed to fix the usb on startup hang by making the usb_drv_exit function do things more like the bootrom
22:17:01 Join liar [0] (
22:17:15BuscheljhMikeS: I just had the first issue with playback since the rework (using r29794) -> after ~1h of playback the playback just stopped in the middle of the track. play symbol was still visible in the WPS. play/pause or seek did not get it back to play. after skip the next track started to play normally.
22:17:42BuscheljhMikeS: the track which stopped also played fine afterwards
22:18:00BuscheljhMikeS: nano 2G
22:19:33bluebroth3rn1s: I've had a try on nano2g yesterday evening. The results were mixed.
22:19:34 Join mshathlonxp [0] (
22:20:06bluebroth3rbasically USB on startup was starting correctly but in general it was less stable
22:20:21bluebroth3rat least for the connect-disconect-connect-disconnect-... test I did
22:20:34BuscheljhMikeS: my experience sound similar to what was reported on the mailing list
22:26:19[Saint]bluebroth3r: Snap.
22:26:27n1sbluebroth3r: oh, less stable how?
22:26:43[Saint]Similar expierence here, plug-in-ou-in-out doesn't pick up the device every time.
22:27:01[Saint]it's about 50% fail rate on WIn XP here
22:27:08n1sand was that with the v3 patch?
22:27:12[Saint]n1s: ^
22:28:06n1sdoes it hang or just not work?
22:28:19[Saint]Just had to check, I grabbed the last from the task but didn't remember a version number.
22:28:35[Saint]For me, it just doesn't work.
22:28:46[Saint]The device acts as though nothing has happened at all.
22:28:54[Saint]It doesn't even seem to want to charge.
22:29:23[Saint]If I plug it in once every minute or so, it seems to be a lot more reliable.
22:29:37[Saint]Plugging in/out reasonably rapidly causes issues.
22:29:58bluebroth3rn1s: works in less cases, and also shows some "missing" output in syslog
22:31:36n1si don't have anything like that, maybe the s5l8700/1 and the s5l8702 are slightly different
22:31:59Buscheln1s: shall we close FS #11124 ?
22:32:51n1safter it stopped hanging it's worked beautifully, i just did 10 connects and disconnects with no failures :(
22:32:54n1sBuschel: sure
22:34:05Buscheln1s: done
22:34:25n1si'd still guess on too large blocks or something not handling files larger than 2gb nicely
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22:35:03n1swe could support larger blocks on targets with large codec buffers if anyone cared
22:35:21n1sbut that is certainly a deliberate limitation and no bug
22:36:33n1si guess comparing the usb code from a nano2g bootrom could help...
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22:39:18Buscheldoes anybody here use rockboy on a nano 2G? I would like to check whether FS #10949 is valid or can be closed
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22:45:36n1s[7]: did you ever compare classic and nano2g bootroms?
22:45:46n1swith regard to usb?
22:47:41 Quit [Saint] (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:47:52[7]yeah, roughly
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22:48:24n1sany notable differences?
22:48:27n1sit seems my patch made usb connects less reliable on the nano2g
22:48:40[7]hm, bad :/
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23:13:04BuscheljhMikeS: playback stuck again now
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23:16:27Buschelbuffering screen: pcm 0/529200 alloc 29313567/29313568
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23:19:36Buschelafter some seeks, play/pause and skip the nano 2G totally locked up in pause state. I cannot even leave the WPS now.
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23:55:16CIA-87New commit by bertrik (r29815): iap: pass length and data pointer to iap_handlepkt functions, this prepares for iap large packet support.

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