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| 00:18:43 | CIA-87 | New commit by bluebrother (r29824): Rockbox Utility: add build id to version string. ... |
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| 00:28:08 | bluebroth3r | hanging build? |
| 00:28:18 | CIA-87 | r29824 build result: All green |
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| 00:28:42 | bluebroth3r | ah, slow one only |
| 00:29:51 | Gnos | not a big deal, but maybe someone would like to know about this: If you update RB, disconnect, and the player immediately voices the battery level, the prompt to reboot RB disappears. |
| 00:31:33 | sideral | Thanks Gnos! It would be nice if you could file a bug report, though, otherwise this issue likely will get lost |
| 00:32:23 | Gnos | sideral: okay I will file bug rep |
| 00:33:16 | sideral | thanks! |
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| 00:42:05 | sideral | bluebrother: The comment in the commit you just checked in needs fixing: it talks about BUILD rather than BUILDID |
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| 00:46:21 | Gnos | Here's the "ROLO prompt disappears when battery level is voiced" FS: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12098 |
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| 05:54:21 | JdGordon | rasher: how's your java? |
| 05:55:49 | JdGordon | http://code.google.com/p/a-simple-lastfm-scrobbler/source/browse/trunk/a_simple_lastfm_scrobbler/src/com/adam/aslfms/receiver/BuiltInMusicAppReceiver.java is probably what we *should* be doing |
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| 07:41:29 | rasher | JdGordon: that seems to rely on the mediastore at a quick glance - a no-go for Rockbox |
| 07:43:14 | JdGordon | im not so sure |
| 07:43:38 | JdGordon | line 136+ |
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| 08:25:50 | rasher | JdGordon: ah.. in my defense I was reading the code on my phone.. |
| 08:26:16 | rasher | So we set audioid = -1 and add stuff to the intent. |
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| 08:26:46 | JdGordon | rasher: I guess so.. I dont really know |
| 08:26:54 | rasher | Well that's what it looks like :) |
| 08:26:56 | JdGordon | that does seem like the most sane way to do it |
| 08:27:37 | rasher | This does have the problem that we'd have to keep up with any future (and past!) changes in the native music player, whereas the scrobbledroid api is probably unlikely to change, since it already has what's needed |
| 08:27:46 | rasher | But I agree it seems nicer to emulate the native app |
| 08:27:59 | rasher | s/native/built-in/ |
| 08:28:06 | JdGordon | and re-reading the logs, I misunderstood a bit... i agree that our suport shuold probably repsect the rockbox setting |
| 08:30:55 | JdGordon | OK, well really the best way would be writing a seperate rbutil app and have a setting in that which listens for rockbox-specific broadcasts, and then in that we can choose which media playeer to emulate |
| 08:30:58 | rasher | Just seems wasteful that we'll be writing the logfile still :\ |
| 08:31:11 | JdGordon | we wouldnt need to |
| 08:31:12 | rasher | That seems vastly overkill |
| 08:31:23 | rasher | JdGordon: some people seem very attached to the idea of keeping the log |
| 08:31:59 | JdGordon | this is a good reason for rbutil |
| 08:32:13 | JdGordon | actually no thats stupid, rbutil should just do the scrobbling by itself |
| 08:32:18 | JdGordon | or pass off to another app |
| 08:32:25 | rasher | Then we're re-inventing the wheel again |
| 08:32:38 | JdGordon | yeah, but this time we'll get it right! |
| 08:32:55 | rasher | But we already have several perfectly good and circular wheels! |
| 08:41:53 | n17ikh | what if my road is like this? http://www.maa.org/mathland/WAGON1.JPG |
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| 09:52:58 | [Saint] | That reminds me... |
| 09:53:04 | [Saint] | dionoea, ping? |
| 09:53:37 | JdGordon | an hour of silence? |
| 09:53:50 | Llorean | dionoea: In the Rockbox Android Widget, for me at least, the Prev/Next buttons don't seem to do anything if I have Skip Length set. I didn't build myself, so I can't test on other builds, and it does have two patches (which I believe should be unrelated) |
| 09:53:56 | Llorean | They work like normal in the WPS though. |
| 09:54:12 | [Saint] | I'm thinking that the "Small Square" widget could be done a little better also. |
| 09:54:21 | [Saint] | I've looked, but the codes a bit foreign to me. |
| 09:54:30 | Llorean | I'm only interested in the "Line" widget anyway. :) |
| 09:54:40 | Llorean | It fits nicely on the screen with my Pandora and Audible widgets. |
| 09:54:41 | [Saint] | IMO, the RB logo should be swapped out with the "while playing" image when there's playback. |
| 09:55:00 | Llorean | The RB logo does look a little funny in the Line widget too. |
| 09:55:28 | [Saint] | It's ok when the widget isn't playing audio. |
| 09:55:32 | Llorean | But pause on headphone resume, unpause on headphone reinsert and "being able to skip back 30 seconds with a single button" are the three things I want it to do. |
| 09:55:46 | Llorean | The first has a patch, not sure about the second, the third would be available if not for a bug. |
| 09:55:48 | [Saint] | but, it looks funny on anything other than "square" while there's playback IMO |
| 09:56:25 | Llorean | [Saint]: I dunno. It feels like there's too much empty space around it for me. It'd be nice if we developed a square-form of our Logo for such uses. |
| 09:56:42 | Llorean | It's a narrow rectangle in space clearly meant to be filled by a nearly square object (album art) and looks odd to me. |
| 09:56:50 | Llorean | But that's just aesthetics, and not a big deal |
| 09:56:53 | [Saint] | I think it looks ok when there's no playback. |
| 09:57:07 | [Saint] | But, when there is, the RB logo is too much for "small square" |
| 09:57:19 | [Saint] | it should swap for the "now playing" image during playback. |
| 09:57:26 | Llorean | I haven't seen it in small square. As I said, only used line. |
| 09:57:28 | [Saint] | this keeps it in sync with the wps also |
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| 09:57:54 | * | Llorean also wishes hitting the play button in the widget could start Rockbox even if it's not running, and resume, but that's not as important. |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:06 | [Saint] | Llorean: it does. |
| 10:00:22 | [Saint] | As long as the service is started, it will start. |
| 10:00:47 | * | [Saint] just tested this. |
| 10:00:51 | Llorean | I did say "start Rockbox if it's not running" though |
| 10:01:13 | [Saint] | well, it's not "running". |
| 10:01:17 | [Saint] | but it's *been* started. |
| 10:01:39 | Llorean | What's that state, exactly? |
| 10:01:53 | Llorean | I mean "start Rockbox when clicking the middle of the widget would show you the boot screen, rather than going directly to the menu". |
| 10:01:58 | [Saint] | ie. "start RB, shut down, use play button on the widget, rb starts" |
| 10:02:16 | Llorean | Hrm, didn't do that for me earlier. Let me test again. |
| 10:02:58 | Llorean | Hmm, seems to work now |
| 10:03:02 | Llorean | Maybe it was just being buggy at the time |
| 10:03:05 | [Saint] | yay! |
| 10:03:09 | Llorean | It's been having the occasional playback bug for me. |
| 10:03:12 | Llorean | It would just... stop playing |
| 10:03:17 | [Saint] | errr...yay working, not yay buggy. |
| 10:03:20 | Llorean | It would say it's playing, but the progress bar wouldn't move any more |
| 10:03:27 | [Saint] | yeah, known bug. |
| 10:03:33 | [Saint] | Can you build you own .apk? |
| 10:03:37 | Llorean | Nope |
| 10:03:42 | [Saint] | want one? |
| 10:03:55 | Llorean | I wasn't really expecting to use it much yet, so I didn't bother learning how yet. I should |
| 10:04:22 | Llorean | [Saint]: What's in it? Right now I've got two of bluebroth3r's patches (one offloads some of the data to the SD card, the other increases the buffer because of skipping on his phone) |
| 10:05:02 | [Saint] | Oh, you have those? The second you mentioned there is the main one in my build I was expecting to fix it. |
| 10:05:27 | [Saint] | Odd, it cleared up the issues for pixelma, myself, and bluebroth3r |
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| 10:05:38 | [Saint] | weird that you're still getting audio-dropouts. |
| 10:05:38 | Llorean | I don't get any skipping at all |
| 10:05:46 | Llorean | There's no small dropouts or anything |
| 10:06:01 | Llorean | It just stops and stays stopped until I trigger an actual Stop/Resume. |
| 10:06:03 | [Saint] | No, but big "I'm just not going to play, anything" dropouts? |
| 10:06:09 | Llorean | Seeking or pausing/unpausing do nothing |
| 10:06:18 | Llorean | Yes, big "I'm done playing now" dropouts |
| 10:06:20 | [Saint] | Yeah, that's what I was experiencing too. |
| 10:06:29 | [Saint] | bluebroth3r's patch fixed that up for me. |
| 10:06:35 | Llorean | Hrm |
| 10:06:37 | [Saint] | perhaps you need *more* buffer still? |
| 10:06:57 | Llorean | I dunno, I thought it was more about buffer underruns and "skips" in the audio. |
| 10:07:01 | * | Llorean maybe misunderstood |
| 10:07:27 | [Saint] | I've looked at the code, but I can't quite follow what's really happening. |
| 10:07:46 | Llorean | I've got tons of RAM free, and nothing really going on that I'd expect to interfere with playback. It's an extremely low bitrate MP3, so I'd be rather surprised. |
| 10:07:48 | [Saint] | I can see what the patch does, but the mechanism is insane (to me :)) |
| 10:07:56 | | Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 10:08:15 | * | Llorean shrugs. |
| 10:08:39 | Llorean | Do you remember the patch number? |
| 10:08:50 | [Saint] | You're not running a task killer or any sillyness like that? |
| 10:08:55 | [Saint] | (have to ask, some do) |
| 10:08:58 | * | JdGordon wants headphone detection in raaaoa in svn |
| 10:09:10 | | Nick kugel_ is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 10:09:15 | Llorean | [Saint]: Nothing. |
| 10:09:18 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Yeah, I was going to ask Llorean where he found that patch. ;) |
| 10:09:30 | [Saint] | but I got sidetracked re: audio-dropouts. |
| 10:09:30 | Llorean | JdGordon: Does our headphone detection support "resume on insert" or not? I've never really used it. |
| 10:09:36 | JdGordon | yes |
| 10:09:42 | Llorean | [Saint]: It's on the tracker. Bluebrother put it up there yesterday. |
| 10:09:53 | [Saint] | Ah, explains why I haven't seen it yet. |
| 10:09:55 | [Saint] | thanks. |
| 10:09:56 | Llorean | The only problem he mentions is that it's a little delayed, since detection is slow on Android. |
| 10:10:10 | [Saint] | that's cool. |
| 10:10:13 | Llorean | Which should be fixable - I have other apps that do it without any 'leaked' audio through the speakers |
| 10:10:24 | [Saint] | better than blasting myself with my incredibly loud internal speaker ;D |
| 10:10:43 | JdGordon | also in the build im using the lock screen controls dont control rockbox |
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| 10:10:45 | Llorean | With headphone detection and a working "skip back 30 seconds" button on the widget, I'll be set. |
| 10:10:55 | Llorean | JdGordon: Lock screen controls? |
| 10:11:10 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Like, the "cancel" button? |
| 10:11:45 | [Saint] | that seems...weird. but, maybe useful. |
| 10:11:52 | JdGordon | the pause button starts the stock media player |
| 10:12:25 | [Saint] | "lock screen controls"? |
| 10:12:33 | [Saint] | ...now I'm confused. |
| 10:12:53 | [Saint] | I can't control media while the screen is locked. |
| 10:12:56 | Llorean | Ah, some ROMs seem to have a lock screen with music controls |
| 10:13:10 | [Saint] | Hmmm, good idea. |
| 10:13:23 | Llorean | Or even display some of your widgets on it |
| 10:13:33 | kugelp | [Saint], Llorean: I'm seeing no rockbox logo but album art :-) |
| 10:13:48 | [Saint] | kugelp: stop playback |
| 10:14:00 | Llorean | kugelp: Album Art is fine. I just wish we had a more album art shaped Rockbox logo for use there. :) |
| 10:14:50 | [Saint] | for "small square" the logo is displayed when there's no playback, and dissappears when there is, but there's enough room to put the "now playing" image, and IMO it looks weird without it. |
| 10:15:31 | kugelp | [Saint]: I know the logo. you said it should change while playing, it changes to album art for me :-) |
| 10:16:07 | [Saint] | Yeah, seems I was getting confused between small/big square. |
| 10:17:09 | [Saint] | and I forgot what actually annoyed me it seems. Now I have my phone in front of me it's clear. in "Square" the "now playing" image is always displayed. |
| 10:17:21 | [Saint] | whether there's playback or not. |
| 10:18:20 | [Saint] | Also, the default sizes of the widgets are weird. |
| 10:19:01 | [Saint] | for "Square" on 240x320, there's *no* point in having the widget smaller than 4x4 (fullscreen) or the text gets cut off while playing. |
| 10:19:39 | [Saint] | yet the default creation size is 3x3 |
| 10:19:51 | [Saint] | *"big square" rather |
| 10:20:32 | Llorean | [Saint]: 3x3 contains plenty of space on a higher resolution target. |
| 10:20:34 | [Saint] | "square" is the same. |
| 10:20:37 | Llorean | Which is probably more common. |
| 10:20:43 | Llorean | It might be nice if there was a 4x4 option by default |
| 10:20:50 | [Saint] | Default creation size is 2x2, which is again far too small to fit everything. |
| 10:20:58 | * | Llorean doesn't like "square", "line", "small square" and prefers "4x1", "2x2", etc |
| 10:21:50 | Llorean | [Saint]: It seems the widgets are definitely oriented around 480x800 screens. I'm not seeing that problem, and I've got a very long track name. |
| 10:22:04 | [Saint] | Yeah, I'm pretty sure the widgets weren't tested very thoroughly on "small" screens |
| 10:22:16 | [Saint] | 240x320, 320x480 |
| 10:23:04 | [Saint] | for "big square", if I leave the defaults, I get half a line of text for metadata |
| 10:24:09 | kugelp | adding a 4x4 widget should be easy |
| 10:24:26 | kugelp | huge square :-) |
| 10:24:45 | [Saint] | we don't need a million widgets. But, can we check the screen size and use a sane default for the layout? |
| 10:25:01 | Llorean | [Saint]: Sounds like it mainly just needs better font size selection? |
| 10:25:09 | [Saint] | I mean, for 240x320, the defaults are useless for everything but "line" |
| 10:25:18 | Llorean | Based on the DPI of the screen rather than absolute size, perhaps. |
| 10:25:33 | [Saint] | Llorean: Nah, if the font did fit...it couldn;t possibly be read by the human eye ;) |
| 10:26:02 | Llorean | [Saint]: If that's true, then 2x2 and 3x3 are both pointless anyway on those targets, right? |
| 10:26:12 | [Saint] | Yep. |
| 10:26:26 | Llorean | Should we really offer different sized widgets for different screens? |
| 10:26:45 | [Saint] | No, I just think we should offer sane defaults based on screen size. |
| 10:27:03 | Llorean | I'm confused. |
| 10:27:12 | Llorean | You said 2x2 and 3x3 are pointless. |
| 10:27:19 | [Saint] | same widgets, but with variable creation time size defaults. |
| 10:27:22 | Llorean | I don't get options for the size, "large square" is always 3x3 |
| 10:27:39 | Llorean | If it's 4x4 it's not the same widget, is it? |
| 10:27:39 | [Saint] | really? odd. |
| 10:27:47 | [Saint] | yes. |
| 10:27:55 | [Saint] | you can resize any widget to any size. |
| 10:28:04 | [Saint] | well...*I* can. |
| 10:28:08 | Llorean | And that's not some app you've got doing that? |
| 10:28:12 | [Saint] | if you can't, that's..odd. |
| 10:28:19 | | Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 10:28:31 | [Saint] | I had assumed it was a part of the widget creation. |
| 10:28:49 | Llorean | When I create the Rockbox widget, it asks me if I want cover art, prev, stop, play/pause, and next buttons. That's it. |
| 10:28:57 | [Saint] | perhaps it's my launcher doing this. |
| 10:29:12 | [Saint] | Hmmm. |
| 10:29:13 | Llorean | That'd be my guess. |
| 10:29:24 | Llorean | What would be the point in having a 2x2 and a 3x3 if you could just resize the box to any size at creation? |
| 10:29:27 | Llorean | We'd instead just do that. |
| 10:30:10 | [Saint] | Perhaps we *should* be doing that. |
| 10:30:26 | [Saint] | I probably wouldn't use the widgets if I couldn;t resize them. |
| 10:30:32 | [Saint] | apparently it's possible to do so. |
| 10:30:50 | [Saint] | I just didn't think it was my launcher doing it, but it seems so. |
| 10:31:04 | [Saint] | s/it/the resizing/ |
| 10:31:29 | Llorean | We should probably drop the 3x3 for a 4x4 |
| 10:31:36 | Llorean | Which would meet your needs, and 3x3 is a really odd size anyway |
| 10:33:24 | [Saint] | that still leaves "smal square" |
| 10:33:37 | Llorean | Small square is fine on higher res targets |
| 10:33:38 | [Saint] | which defaults to 2x2 on my device, and is unusable like that. |
| 10:33:44 | Llorean | We'd have 2x2, 4x1, and 4x4 |
| 10:33:55 | [Saint] | 2x2 is pointless on thses screens |
| 10:33:59 | Llorean | People with your device would likely choose 4x4, while people on mine might choose 2x2 if they're short on space. |
| 10:34:08 | Llorean | [Saint]: And 4x4 is a huge waste of space on screens like mine. |
| 10:34:41 | [Saint] | Yeah, so we really need a way to offer either configuration at creation time, or offer sane defaults based on screen dimension. |
| 10:34:59 | Llorean | 2x2 and 4x4 *would* be sane defaults. |
| 10:35:04 | [Saint] | configuration at creation time would be awesome. |
| 10:35:20 | [Saint] | Um...no. |
| 10:35:31 | [Saint] | unless you're talking about dropping a widget. |
| 10:35:35 | Llorean | According to you, your screen the only sane default for a box is 4x4 |
| 10:35:45 | Llorean | There's very little difference between small box and large box other than their size |
| 10:35:50 | [Saint] | for "small square" the default is 2x2 on my phone. this is unusable. |
| 10:35:51 | Llorean | If they're both 4x4, one's not small any more is it? |
| 10:36:07 | Llorean | You're talking about having two different 4x4 widgets. |
| 10:36:13 | Llorean | For targets with your screen resolution |
| 10:36:28 | Llorean | This isn't "sane defaults". Some people just want a play/pause button and don't even care about the track title |
| 10:36:33 | Llorean | 2x2 should manage that fine even on your device. |
| 10:36:58 | [Saint] | Yes, but half of AA and 3px of metadata look awful. |
| 10:37:05 | Llorean | So turn off AA |
| 10:37:07 | Llorean | It's an option. |
| 10:37:18 | Llorean | Don't use the small box if you want AA on a tiny screen. |
| 10:37:36 | | Join komputes [0] (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) |
| 10:37:54 | Llorean | Stretching small box to fullscreen just to show AA rather defeats the purpose of offering a small widget that doesn't take up much space. Let people use them as intended - small for minimalist controls, large for more information. |
| 10:37:55 | [Saint] | It seems as though small square probably shouldn;t even be an option on this screen size. |
| 10:38:13 | [Saint] | It's only usable because I can resize it with the launcher at creation time. |
| 10:38:31 | Llorean | [Saint]: You're too obsessed with AA. Using it for a play/pause button without having to go back to the app would work, wouldn't it? |
| 10:39:03 | Llorean | Turn off everything but the Play/Pause button. |
| 10:39:58 | [Saint] | Yeah, actually, that's pretty much the only way it's usable. |
| 10:40:04 | Llorean | That's pretty much what it should be for. |
| 10:40:26 | Llorean | We shouldn't take away the option for someone to have a widget that only takes up a couple spots, just because it can't show AA. |
| 10:40:29 | [Saint] | Hmmm, I wonder if we could default cover art etc off for the small square then. |
| 10:40:32 | [Saint] | that's a start. |
| 10:40:36 | Llorean | Probably should |
| 10:40:40 | Llorean | They seem to all default to the same options. |
| 10:41:35 | Llorean | I think small box should stay 2x2, large box should go up to 4x4 (as 3x3 seems senseless to me - it sacrifices most of the rest of your space for anything but icons or a line anyway) and line should stay the same (size-wise) |
| 10:42:34 | [Saint] | Yep, I agree. With the exception (as mention earlier) that small square should default cover art and (maybe?) prev/next off also. |
| 10:44:07 | Llorean | Yeah |
| 10:44:32 | Llorean | Personally, I'd default to offering the "Play/Pause" and "Prev" buttons, but I use it for audiobooks and have "Prev" set to "skip back 30 seconds" |
| 10:44:39 | Llorean | A button Audible offers and comes in very handy |
| 10:44:40 | [Saint] | and "big square" needs to not display "now playing" *all the time* ;) |
| 10:46:19 | [Saint] | hah...during this conversation I ended up with 14 RaaA widgets on 7 homescreens... ;) |
| 10:53:13 | [Saint] | Llorean: Just looked at the pause on unplug tracker task, made a comment there but figured I can talk to you here with more ease. I think it's possible (if the delay is indeed unavoidable between detecting unplug and pausing) that the application you're talking about is muting playback when it catches the unplug event. |
| 10:53:33 | [Saint] | And, if so, we should probably do the same to avoid the "bleeding" through the internal speaker. |
| 10:53:36 | Llorean | [Saint]: I thought the delay was between unplug and detection of unplug |
| 10:53:43 | Llorean | I can't imagine a delay in *pausing* would be the unavoidable part. |
| 10:54:03 | Llorean | Since we can obviously pause nearly instantly on button press. |
| 10:54:16 | [Saint] | Oh, ah...yes. It seems I read it incorrectly. |
| 10:54:37 | [Saint] | He states "this is an Android limitation"..I wonder how the app you're talking of gets around it. |
| 10:55:02 | Llorean | I can imagine a delay in detection of the unplug happening, but I imagine Android is still playing back through the headphone port during this delay, so nothing 'leaks' through the speaker (though we may lose a fraction of a second of audio) |
| 10:55:14 | Llorean | So you don't 'see' the delay |
| 10:55:21 | Llorean | Possibly followed by a slight rewind to make up for the delay |
| 10:56:50 | n1s | the delay is after rockbox detects the unplug but before it sends the event, to debounce on glitchy jacks it double checks, while i *guess* that the redirection to speaker is something android does |
| 10:57:06 | Llorean | n1s: Do we need to debounce on android, or can we depend on the OS to do it? |
| 10:57:17 | Llorean | I don't see the icon on the status bar flickering during plugs, so I'm guessing they might |
| 10:57:19 | n1s | no idea |
| 10:58:18 | * | Llorean suggests we should try it without debouncing first. |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:15:44 | | Join smk [0] (~smk@115.113.152.3) |
| 11:16:31 | wodz|work | Do we have error codes comming from storage layer standarized? (aka error codes from sd_read_sectors()/sd_write_sectors() ) |
| 11:17:15 | | Quit wodz|work (Client Quit) |
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| 11:17:50 | smk | hi. anyone here who can help me with aac/libfaad?. was working on the libfaad task in Mr.SomeOne's list |
| 11:18:18 | smk | have some questions. |
| 11:19:21 | n1s | smk: just ask |
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| 11:20:47 | smk | ok. i put debug info in faad_malloc where malloc is being called. and played m4a songs in the sim. for every song played, 3 calls to malloc are made. i traced these calls and replaced them with static allocations. it's working properly. what should i do now? |
| 11:22:01 | smk | and also, there are places in code where faad_malloc is called,. but these aren't run when i play the m4a songs. i only considered on scenario where faad_malloc could be called. that is, playing a song.. :P |
| 11:22:11 | smk | *one scenario |
| 11:23:35 | pamaury | wodz|work: I don't think there are standard error codes |
| 11:23:57 | smk | so, when i play the aac songs now, no calls to malloc are made...hmm is that the task? or should i be taking care of something else? |
| 11:24:49 | | Quit DerPapst (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 11:26:12 | wodz|work | pamaury: maybe we should agree on some standard errors? |
| 11:27:08 | pamaury | I don't know, would it be useful ? |
| 11:28:25 | [Saint] | smk: Nice work, by the way. |
| 11:28:29 | [Saint] | Congratulations. |
| 11:28:43 | wodz|work | pamury: now you have to dig through the code to understand what error -11; in bootloader means :-) |
| 11:29:15 | wodz|work | with standard error codes we can map this to error messages |
| 11:29:46 | smk | thanks :). but as i said, some parts of the code still have calls to malloc, but i didn't care to replace them , as they didn't actually make the calls when the audio was run. what should i do next? |
| 11:30:47 | pamaury | that's true, but that would mean going through a lot of code and also possibly introduce some more strings to translate about errors. But I agree this would be easier for debugging |
| 11:30:52 | [Saint] | I would maybe investigate when those calls to malloc *are* made? |
| 11:31:04 | [Saint] | smk: ^ |
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| 11:31:41 | wodz|work | pamaury: I don't think we need to translate low level errors |
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| 11:33:53 | pamaury | I guess that (perhaps after some discussion) we could introduce standard error code, starting at -100 so that standard code don't interfere with ad hoc ones and slowly begin to use them |
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| 11:36:32 | wodz|work | pamury: yeh, coexisting new codes with old ones is a must. No one will fix all at once |
| 11:38:27 | n1s | smk: there are different kinds of aac files that use different features of the codec, maybe all your files are the same profile? Also how did you decide on the size for those static allocations? and you should probably talk to Buschel, since he did some work on that codec not long ago |
| 11:41:43 | smk | [Saint]: yeah, i found where the calls are coming from, found out how much memory is each such call asking for. and replaced them with static alloc. |
| 11:43:04 | [Saint] | as n1s just mentioned, there are different types of AAC files, have you thrown all test cases at it?I'd recomend using the files from test_files |
| 11:43:22 | smk | n1s: yes, i have considered only one test case. there would be others. some of the replacements were straight-forward. where a pointer to a struct is malloc'd , i replace it with struct itself and also replace the used areas.. as in structPointer -> abc becomes struct.abc |
| 11:44:18 | n1s | ah, ok so they were already statically sized |
| 11:44:33 | smk | yeah. |
| 11:44:38 | [Saint] | smk: for other instances of AAC files, you might make use of http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/ |
| 11:45:24 | [Saint] | I'm not actually certain there are any in there though. |
| 11:45:30 | [Saint] | been a while since I looked. |
| 11:46:02 | n1s | the nero* files are aac, definitely try the he files |
| 11:46:15 | smk | [Saint]: will sift through them. yeah there are some m4a files here, will need to check the other formats though. |
| 11:46:50 | n1s | and it's possible that the different bitrates use different features so try perhaps 96 and 400 kbps |
| 11:47:35 | n1s | we don't seem to have any raac files |
| 11:47:56 | smk | oh yeah, raac also will use faad. |
| 11:48:05 | [Saint] | rockbox as a codec? ;) |
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| 11:58:08 | pamaury | wodz|work: do you a room in a hotel or something for devcon ? when do you leave ? |
| 11:59:22 | Buschel | smk: please check FS #8923 and r29778. I made several changes to libfaad in the past weeks to get rid of malloc. if you enable FAAD_STATIC_ALLOC there will be only 3 mallocs left. those are called from libm4a/demux.c and will *heavily* differ from file to file (see FS #8923) |
| 11:59:36 | Buschel | smk: allocation go up to 540 KB for a single song |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:54 | Buschel | smk it would be technically easy to remove malloc, but imho we will then have to use a large static buffer and use a libfaad-internal malloc-implementation to efficiently use it. |
| 12:01:38 | Buschel | smk: it is not reasonable to use static buffers for each single malloc that is used |
| 12:03:30 | Buschel | smk: it is even reasonable to not define FAAD_STATIC_ALLOC (svn does also not define it) to not waste RAM with static buffers which are not used (e.g. when playing AAC-LC files) |
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| 12:06:00 | smk | Buschel: right. what other approach then? |
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| 12:08:49 | Buschel | smk: create a large static buffer, write libfaad-specific malloc (can be easily derived from the current one) and use it :) the size of the static buffer can then be of different size for different targets |
| 12:09:09 | Buschel | smk: I do not see any other elegant possibility |
| 12:11:36 | smk | Buschel: the size of the buffer would then be a worst-case size. we might not use the whole or most part of the buffer for most of the time. |
| 12:12:54 | Buschel | smk: there is no worst case. the memory requirements of demux.c will mostly scale with both the type of m4a-structure used and the length of the file (number of frames). |
| 12:13:18 | Buschel | smk: as I wrote -> 540 KB for ~2h duration m4a |
| 12:13:40 | Buschel | smk: but might also be 170 KB for 2h... depends on the file... |
| 12:14:09 | smk | Buschel: didn't think of a 2h duration file :) |
| 12:14:14 | wodz|work | pamury: I didn't booked hotel yet. I have return flight 05 june 17:50 |
| 12:14:34 | Buschel | smk: but we must be able to play those |
| 12:14:51 | smk | ok. |
| 12:15:20 | Buschel | smk: we should not loose playability through any changes |
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| 12:16:06 | Buschel | smk: btw, did you see r29778? from your posts today I got the impression you worked a similar approach on older code of rockbox? |
| 12:17:33 | Buschel | smk: for large files you might take a look inot FS #8923. there are links to some very long files |
| 12:17:39 | Buschel | *into |
| 12:17:50 | smk | Buschel: i had started earlier. then xams came. resuming now... m still using the old code though :P. |
| 12:18:52 | Buschel | smk: you should sync to the current one. It has changed a lot regarding malloc and static buffer usage. |
| 12:19:33 | Buschel | smk: ok, gotta go now. see you later! |
| 12:19:37 | | Quit Buschel (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 12:19:57 | smk | Buschel : sure. thanks :). Will update. |
| 12:40:17 | [Saint] | pixelma: froggyman: Llorean: (possibly?) - http://www.datafilehost.com/download-16d6fabb.html |
| 12:40:19 | [Saint] | "current svn head with: antialiased fontset, large iconset (480x800 build only), "eye-candy" Rockbox logo (app and widgets), resources on uSD, fix audio dropouts, headphone detection, meier crossfeed, adjustable inter-ear delay, shutdown in main menu, icon/list spacing, quickscreen timeout" |
| 12:41:44 | [Saint] | 320x480 build lacks my custom theme, but a: it has a few quirks, and b: cabbieV2 is still the default for the build anyway. |
| 12:42:07 | | Part smk ("Leaving") |
| 12:42:22 | [Saint] | (it's quite usable, though, it's me default theme...but, I'm biased as I built it) |
| 12:42:31 | [Saint] | *s/me/my/ |
| 12:44:27 | [Saint] | ps-auxw: sorry about the ~15MB download, it was easier to package them all together. |
| 12:44:59 | [Saint] | damn nick completion, sorrp ps-auxw, 'twas supposed to be "PS:" |
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| 12:57:56 | kugelp | how is meier crossfeed? |
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| 12:58:48 | [Saint] | It's nice, but I personally prefer using the adjustable inter-ear delay. |
| 12:59:59 | kugelp | why aren't those in svn? bertrik put them up didn't he? |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:18 | [Saint] | Yes, he did. And I'm not sure why to be honest. |
| 13:00:54 | [Saint] | The two patches work together very nicely if you want to use the meier crossfeed or continue to use the rb one with adjustable delay. |
| 13:02:05 | kugelp | I'll justgive your build a try :-) |
| 13:10:24 | | Quit boghog (Quit: boghog) |
| 13:11:55 | kugelp | Llorean: 3x3 is my favorite widget |
| 13:17:04 | Llorean | kugelp: I guess it just seems a strange size to me. It leaves too little room for most other widgets, and to me seems it may as well be 4x4. But we could just offer 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 anyway |
| 13:18:32 | Torne | Llorean: i dunno, almost all of my "widgets" are just shortcut icons, so 3x3 leaves room for seven of them :) |
| 13:18:40 | * | [Saint] just discovered that depends vastly on ones desktop setup |
| 13:19:05 | Torne | and most of the remainder are 4x1 so there's room for one of those also |
| 13:19:24 | [Saint] | I mean, I can set the desktop colums to 8, so 3x3 is nothing. |
| 13:20:19 | [Saint] | is the default desktop colums always 4? |
| 13:21:09 | Llorean | [Saint]: Default desktop is 4x4 |
| 13:21:20 | Llorean | If you're 8x8 I can easily see why you might have difficulty seeing things on a 3x3 |
| 13:21:39 | Llorean | Especially on a 240x320 screen. Jeeze. |
| 13:21:40 | [Saint] | Oh, no...I just discovered I could change that now. |
| 13:22:03 | [Saint] | when I was playing earlier it was 4X4 |
| 13:22:17 | kugelp | [Saint]: you obviously have a non-standard homescreen setup |
| 13:22:36 | Llorean | Torne: I seem to use a lot of 4x1 and a few 4x2 widgets. |
| 13:22:51 | Torne | Llorean: right. so 3x3 is not entirely useless.. |
| 13:23:00 | Torne | 4x1, 3x3, and three icons |
| 13:23:03 | Llorean | Yeah |
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| 13:23:15 | Llorean | I don't mean to say totally useless, it just seems like an odd (pardon the pun) size |
| 13:23:19 | Torne | heh :) |
| 13:23:23 | Llorean | The 2x2 fits just as much information on my screen |
| 13:23:28 | kugelp | normally you are limited to 4x4 and can't reside widgets, but I know many launcher don't have this limitation |
| 13:23:30 | Torne | i've not actualyl used rockbox on android yet |
| 13:23:34 | Torne | so.. yeah |
| 13:23:35 | Llorean | So the 3x3 feels like it's just wasting space to waste space more than anything |
| 13:23:45 | Torne | i have no idea if it's reasonable from the POV of what is actually displayed |
| 13:23:51 | [Saint] | kugelp: yes, custom launcher. |
| 13:23:54 | Torne | Llorean: maybe people with really long song titles :) |
| 13:24:08 | Llorean | I feel like if we're going to only offer three widgets (something I don't actually care about, 4 or more is fine by me) 2x2 and 4x4 is better than 2x2 and 3x3 |
| 13:24:09 | [Saint] | I actually thought that RaaA was doing the widget resizing initially, not my launcher. |
| 13:24:15 | [Saint] | as I never use any other widgets. |
| 13:24:16 | kugelp | resize* |
| 13:25:44 | kugelp | and yea, the layout of our widgets are not prepared for being resized |
| 13:26:07 | kugelp | Llorean: no reason we couldn't offermore widget sizes |
| 13:26:08 | [Saint] | it's quite fun to be able to stretch and resize widgets...I was a little dissappointed when I found out it was the launcher handling this. |
| 13:26:19 | [Saint] | I assumed it was some awesome feature RaaA had ;) |
| 13:26:36 | Llorean | kugelp: Yeah, I don't see why we shouldn't. Someone just said they didn't think we did, and my response was "well if we limit ourselves to three, I think 2x2, 4x4 and 4x1 is better than 2x2, 3x3, and 4x1" |
| 13:27:25 | [Saint] | Instead of having ten million widgets in the list though...could there be one RaaA widget, which you then select the setup of? |
| 13:27:45 | [Saint] | that would seen a lot nicer to me personally. |
| 13:27:48 | kugelp | well, opinions :-) imo the 2x2 one would be the one to drop :-) |
| 13:28:02 | [Saint] | As opposed to having 5 or 6 different rockbox widgets listed. |
| 13:28:22 | kugelp | [Saint]: I don't think that's possible |
| 13:28:28 | [Saint] | Awww :/ |
| 13:28:31 | [Saint] | Oh well. |
| 13:29:34 | Torne | you can have options that change what is dispalyed *in* the widget, but the widget's size is fixed, yes |
| 13:30:03 | Torne | the option popup, if present, is entirely the widget provider's business, the launcher is not involved in processing it |
| 13:30:13 | [Saint] | kugelp: The widgets actually handle being resized quite well, just not *very* well ;) |
| 13:30:44 | [Saint] | the logo and the icons resize decently, but AA, metadata placement is screwed up if you go too small. |
| 13:32:10 | [Saint] | Torne: Well, after RaaA pops up it's config options, immediately after pressing "create" my launcher shows me another popup to choose the displayed size. |
| 13:32:22 | [Saint] | It took me a while to figure out it was the launcher doing that. |
| 13:32:38 | [Saint] | I assumed it was part of the widget setup. |
| 13:32:45 | Torne | [Saint]: I *think* that's a dramatic abuse of APIs and will break lots of widgets or make them display oddly |
| 13:32:57 | Torne | because the widget interface is pretty much not designed for that :) |
| 13:33:09 | Torne | so relying on that is not a sensible idea :) |
| 13:33:18 | Torne | and trying to support it explicitly is going to run into limitations |
| 13:33:33 | [Saint] | works fine. It's so it can handle resizing the widgets for different homescreen orientations. |
| 13:33:57 | [Saint] | though I realise it's "non-standard" (now) |
| 13:34:44 | Llorean | We could just make a 1x1, 2x1 and 2x2 allowing the 2x1 and 2x1 to only contain track names or album art (for the 2x2) , and the 1x1 to contain any of the single buttons we already offer, then just let the user figure out how they want to distribute them on the screen. :-P |
| 13:35:04 | [Saint] | 1x1? |
| 13:35:17 | [Saint] | "touch to launch rockbox"? ;) |
| 13:35:21 | Llorean | I'm guessing you didn't read all the way through before saying that? |
| 13:35:26 | [Saint] | like....an *icon*? ;P |
| 13:35:30 | Torne | [Saint]: I have a 1x1 widget for my podcast player, works fine |
| 13:35:36 | Llorean | I was in part joking |
| 13:35:42 | Torne | it's a play-pause button with a progress bar |
| 13:35:49 | kugelp | why should we explicitly limit the options what to display? |
| 13:35:50 | Torne | if you hit play when nothing's queued it creates a playlist automatically |
| 13:35:54 | Torne | Works perfectly |
| 13:35:57 | Llorean | But you could make the play/pause button a 1x1, the stop a 1x1, each skip a 1x1, and the user can then fit them on their screen how they like. :-P |
| 13:35:57 | Torne | I never launch the app ;) |
| 13:36:22 | Llorean | Torne: Mainly I use a Play/Pause button and a "rewind 30 seconds" button for audiobooks/podcasts. |
| 13:36:23 | [Saint] | kugelp: Because for some sizes of widget, all the options don't fit. |
| 13:36:32 | [Saint] | or don't fit properly. |
| 13:37:04 | Llorean | Torne: Audible offered me the "skip back 30" button and I found myself using it more than I expected. |
| 13:37:32 | kugelp | Llorean: don't we have "rewind bit" after unpause in by now? |
| 13:37:47 | Llorean | kugelp: I believe we do, but that's not what I use it for. |
| 13:38:07 | Llorean | If I'm listening, and some noise distracts me, or I find my thought wandering, it's easy to skip back a short amount to re-listen. |
| 13:38:22 | Llorean | Especially since you can't click-and-hold in a widget. |
| 13:38:41 | Llorean | Rockbox already lets you skip back 30 seconds with "skip length" except that seems currently broken on the widget, so I still need to be in the WPS to do it. |
| 13:38:55 | Llorean | It's also especially helpful since seeking in Rockbox on Android in very long tracks is hardly ideal at the moment. Not fine enough. |
| 13:39:03 | kugelp | you can toggle playback quickly and don't mess with the skip length setting I guess |
| 13:39:27 | Llorean | kugelp: Pausing and unpausing 6 or more times rather than just pressing one button is kinda annoying. |
| 13:39:57 | Llorean | I don't want my rewind-on-unpause particularly long for the times I pause intentionally. I usually have it set to only about 2 seconds. |
| 13:40:20 | kugelp | speaking of seeking, the ffwd/rew touchregions don't work properly in cabbie, did something change? |
| 13:40:31 | Llorean | But it's 5 on Rockbox due to limitations |
| 13:40:40 | [Saint] | Llorean: seek isn't fine enough? Can't you adjust the minimum seek step to like 1 second or something? |
| 13:41:13 | [Saint] | how fine do you need it? |
| 13:41:19 | Llorean | [Saint]: Mine's set to 1s, but if the track is 5 hours long, 480 pixels being addressed with a finger doesn't give you nearly that fine of control |
| 13:41:32 | [Saint] | that's the themes fault. |
| 13:41:37 | [Saint] | not RaaAs |
| 13:41:51 | [Saint] | seeking with the playbar is just...silly |
| 13:41:54 | Llorean | Nah |
| 13:41:56 | [Saint] | if you want a fine grain. |
| 13:41:59 | Llorean | Try other apps, they have a much better way to do it. |
| 13:42:19 | Llorean | Put your finger on the bar, then move it up/down away from the bar, and you get half/sized steps, move it further you get quarter/sized steps |
| 13:42:27 | [Saint] | I have, and for fine grained seeking...using a bar is just useless IMO |
| 13:42:29 | Llorean | So you can get very fine seeking but with finger-style controls |
| 13:42:39 | Llorean | [Saint]: You haven't used the right ones then. |
| 13:42:42 | * | [Saint] shrugs |
| 13:43:04 | Llorean | I can seek to where I want in a good app much faster than I can with Rockbox's "press-and-hold-and-wait" seeking. |
| 13:43:16 | kugelp | this style of progress bar OS unknown to me too |
| 13:43:18 | [Saint] | I know RaaA's seeking with the playbar is crap...but I'd never personally use it and expect to have a very fine grain personally. |
| 13:43:19 | Llorean | Tap where you want on the bar, then move away from the bar and 'nudge' with your finger to narrow it down. |
| 13:43:22 | kugelp | is* |
| 13:43:29 | Llorean | kugelp: It's common on the iPhone, but it's also on a few android apps. |
| 13:43:31 | [Saint] | I use it for skipping large periods. |
| 13:43:44 | [Saint] | and I use actual ffwd/rew buttons for fine seeking. |
| 13:43:52 | Llorean | kugelp: I'd suggest trying Audible to see it, but I don't know about availability and you'd need content. |
| 13:44:20 | kugelp | it sounds nice indeed |
| 13:44:45 | kugelp | [Saint]: do you know more about the touchregion issue? |
| 13:44:56 | * | Llorean doesn't care too much about seeking though. |
| 13:45:01 | [Saint] | Oh? kinda similar to drilling down alphabetically in the contacts list? |
| 13:45:11 | * | Llorean just wants the buttons on the widget to work right, and no more crashes. |
| 13:45:12 | [Saint] | kugelp: Which issue is this? |
| 13:45:25 | kugelp | I wrote it a few lines up |
| 13:46:10 | Llorean | [Saint]: Imagine if moving your bar 40 pixels right on the progress bar moved you forward 4 minutes. If you moved your finger directly up/down from the bar and *then* 40 pixels over, it'd seek 2 minutes instead. Further away and you'd get 1 minute. Etc. |
| 13:46:24 | Llorean | Basically, you're "scaling" the amount seeked based on your distance from the bar. |
| 13:46:46 | [Saint] | kugelp: Ah, yep. Something changed. * now means "Hold, and repeat the action" and & means "hold, and do one action only" |
| 13:46:54 | [Saint] | pixelma got hit by that too. |
| 13:47:01 | [Saint] | Seems a lot of people missed the commit. |
| 13:47:31 | kugelp | [Saint]: well that sucks. why break themes this way? |
| 13:47:42 | [Saint] | because it was needed. |
| 13:47:54 | kugelp | and even without fixing default themes in SBM? |
| 13:47:54 | [Saint] | otherwise "mute" was impossible to use on a hold action. |
| 13:48:01 | [Saint] | it fired on/off at the repeat rate. |
| 13:48:22 | kugelp | swap * and &, then nothing breaks? |
| 13:48:29 | [Saint] | yes. |
| 13:48:54 | [Saint] | And I do apologise for not updating the touchscreen themes as yet. |
| 13:48:57 | kugelp | s/sbm/svn/ |
| 13:49:09 | [Saint] | the fact that no ones's noticed yet is a little telling how many people use them though ;) |
| 13:49:22 | kugelp | we should swap them anyway |
| 13:49:35 | [Saint] | Oh, sure. |
| 13:50:09 | [Saint] | I was supposed to do that after the commit, but...earthquakes and various other stuff decided to alter my schedule |
| 13:50:50 | kugelp | how old is the change? |
| 13:51:01 | [Saint] | ~2 weeks |
| 13:51:12 | [Saint] | ish |
| 13:51:48 | gevaerts | wodz|work: did someone already tell you about the devcon hotel situation? |
| 13:52:09 | gevaerts | wodz|work: if you need a cheap solution, I'd recommend talking to kugelp or petur |
| 13:52:18 | [Saint] | It was needed because it's more sane to put mute on a hold action so it's not always accidentally being pressed, but when things like mute are on hold actions (before the change) they fired on/off at the repeat rate. |
| 13:52:20 | wodz|work | gevaerts: no |
| 13:52:28 | [Saint] | so muting/unmuting was a game of chance ;) |
| 13:53:09 | wodz|work | kugelp: any suggestions with hotel for devcon than? |
| 13:53:26 | petur | wodz|work: #rockbox-community |
| 13:54:34 | wodz|work | petur: can I join -community with our web irc client? |
| 13:54:46 | petur | think so, yes |
| 13:55:04 | [Saint] | Hmmm...that commit to touchregions is a lot older than I thought. |
| 13:55:20 | [Saint] | It's not in "last 4 weeks", damn. I dropped the ball there. |
| 13:55:32 | [Saint] | I just plain forgot about the "other" touch targets. |
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| 14:26:16 | wodz|work | I have target with single SD slot and internal NAND which operates in raw mode + FTL. What defines should I use? How this multivolume framework is working? |
| 14:28:09 | pamaury | there are two different things iirc: multi drive and multi volume |
| 14:28:32 | pamaury | multi drive is about having several drives as the names implies and multi volume is about having several partitions per drive |
| 14:29:16 | wodz|work | nice, and that means? |
| 14:31:08 | pamaury | that you need to enable multi drive but not I'm not sure you need to enable multi volume. You also want multi storage because you have SD + NAND, the fact that there is a FTL is a driver details I think but you could ask TheSeven for example |
| 14:32:02 | pamaury | I don't exactly remember how you register the different drives so that that rockbox knows drive 0 i |
| 14:32:09 | pamaury | s NAND and 1 is SD for example |
| 14:32:45 | pamaury | iirc, each storage subsystem (NAND, SD) has an init function which says how many drive of this type it has |
| 14:32:55 | wodz|work | hmm |
| 14:33:52 | wodz|work | if I implement only NAND stubs for now, will file I/O calls fallback to the SD driver? |
| 14:35:23 | pamaury | depends on how you implement stub. If you nand init function reports one drive, you stub will get the I/O (and fail) for NAND. The system will not fallback to SD for this drive |
| 14:36:30 | pamaury | perhaps you want an example of cod ? |
| 14:36:31 | pamaury | *code |
| 14:36:37 | wodz|work | sure |
| 14:37:02 | pamaury | ok, give me a few minutes |
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| 14:45:39 | pamaury | I'm nearly done |
| 14:48:47 | pamaury | wodz|work: http://pastebin.com/BdqQa9xB |
| 14:48:54 | pamaury | I hope I didn't forget anything |
| 14:51:51 | wodz|work | ok, now is there a special way to access data on this drives? I mean how to read something from SD with standard fopen/fread ? |
| 14:51:53 | pamaury | In this precise example, drive 0 will be first SD drive (sd_first_drive = 0), and drive 1 will be first NAND drive (nand_first_drive=1), since the storage system inits sd before nand but you don't have to know this |
| 14:52:29 | pamaury | wodz|work: storage_read_sectors, storage_write_sectors |
| 14:52:43 | | Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 14:52:44 | pamaury | for raw access |
| 14:54:29 | pamaury | for files this is a little bit more tricky. There is a main drive which will be rooted at / and other drive are rooted at special locations like /<magic_name_%d> |
| 14:54:42 | kugel | wodz|work: there's a few ports with nand/sd, IIRC all of them pretty much only support the sd |
| 14:54:46 | pamaury | I don't remember the magic_name, it depends on whether you have MD or not |
| 14:55:03 | | Part mem_ |
| 14:55:19 | pamaury | I also don't remember how you specify which drive is the main one |
| 14:56:15 | pamaury | Actually I might have be wrong, you might need multi-volume :) |
| 14:56:36 | Torne | iirc one implies the other |
| 14:56:54 | pamaury | I think MD implies MV |
| 14:56:59 | Torne | yeah |
| 14:57:01 | Torne | sounds right. |
| 14:57:08 | Torne | multivolume is whether we mount more than one filesystem |
| 14:57:14 | pamaury | yes, just check config.h |
| 14:57:20 | Torne | multidrive is whether there's more than one storage device driver instance |
| 14:57:26 | pamaury | It's automatic so no worries |
| 14:59:07 | pamaury | wodz|work: assuming the nand is the main drive, the SD will be mounted at /<microSD0> I think (see firmware/include/dir.h) |
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| 15:03:27 | pamaury | Actually, that's quite horrible because rockbox works on volume. The disk (disk.c) part has a mapping from volume to drives. And then the storage layer has a mapping from drive to subsystems. |
| 15:05:25 | wodz|work | so now the last question is how to assign what is main drive |
| 15:05:31 | TheSeven | pamaury: I don't have any MV/MD devices |
| 15:08:00 | pamaury | I don't have either. |
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| 15:09:42 | pamaury | The code works as follow: upon opening of /PATH, strip_volume(/PATH) is called to get the volume number. The volume is a FAT volume but the disk system maps volumes to drive which maps to subsystems. So somewhere there must be some code define which one is the main drive :D |
| 15:10:55 | pamaury | Let me have a look at the D2 code, it has nand and sd and has special code because sd is the main drive |
| 15:12:49 | pamaury | gevaerts: do you know how this works ? |
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| 15:15:48 | gevaerts | pamaury: picking drive 0? |
| 15:16:19 | pamaury | yes but you can't really choose since the storage.c code has a fixed initialization order |
| 15:16:37 | pamaury | thus drive 0 will be SD and 1 will be NAND if you don't do anything special |
| 15:16:56 | gevaerts | yes, that's how it works |
| 15:16:57 | wodz|work | so SD will be the main |
| 15:17:09 | wodz|work | right? |
| 15:17:13 | pamaury | yes |
| 15:17:17 | wodz|work | cool |
| 15:17:27 | pamaury | the only way I see is to change storage.c if you are not happy with that |
| 15:18:02 | Torne | surely the bit to fix is the assumption that drive 0 is the one to mount as the root :) |
| 15:18:14 | Torne | rather than caring about which drive is which number. |
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| 15:19:15 | pamaury | that's right, I *think* it's easy to fix but there might be lots of places which assume it |
| 15:23:10 | Torne | well presumably only strip_volume and whatever mounts the root |
| 15:23:19 | Torne | i say presumably |
| 15:23:22 | Torne | i mean hopefully |
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| 17:43:53 | kugel | Unhelpful: what does buflib_buffer_out() exactly do? |
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| 17:55:02 | kugel | dircache is pretty tricky |
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| 18:21:21 | kugel | dircache.c is *dirty* |
| 18:23:26 | * | pamaury loads his railgun and aims at kugel |
| 18:24:29 | pamaury | some parts tricky, I can accept that :) |
| 18:24:33 | pamaury | *are tricky |
| 18:25:14 | kugel | more than some :) |
| 18:25:47 | pamaury | lol |
| 18:26:36 | pamaury | the cache building uses some obscure fat functions but the rest is quite simple |
| 18:28:03 | kugel | I'm only looking at the memory management |
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| 18:28:58 | pamaury | ah, ok that part is dirty :) |
| 18:31:05 | kugel | :) |
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| 18:33:40 | pamaury | actually the cache doesn't change too often so I don't think it's a big deal |
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| 18:34:26 | kugel | I'm analyzing buffer_alloc() users for my buflib project |
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| 18:36:39 | pamaury | one problem of this one is that you can't predict the size of it of course, and you don't want to allocate too much memory for the cache also |
| 18:36:52 | kugel | I don't think that's a problem |
| 18:37:12 | kugel | most problematic is if references or parts of the buffer are exposed to other modules |
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| 18:56:43 | saratoga | woot has the clip+ cheap today if anyone still doesn't have one: http://sellout.woot.com/ |
| 18:57:24 | u42p | damn |
| 18:58:05 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: for the "more album art logo" in the widget we could use the clef or "Rb" icon since those are square (reminds me, I haven't committed my move-all-logo-sources-into-a-folder patch) |
| 18:58:52 | bluebroth3r | and for the audio dropouts ... in my case playback was simply stopping as well. I can very well imagine that the playback buffer should be even bigger. I can make you an apk with a bigger buffer if you want to give it a try |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:19 | bluebroth3r | JdGordon: any concerns about headphone detection aka FS #12097? I wouldn't mind committing it even with the delay issue, that can get fixed later |
| 19:00:27 | kugel | gevaerts: I just analyzed dircache.c, it seems convertible with modifications to buflib (some sort of buflib_get_everything()). compaction will be a bit more tricky but should be doable in a safe way |
| 19:00:58 | kugel | I also hacked on buflib a bit; named allocation and a print_allocations() for debugging purposes |
| 19:01:14 | gevaerts | Sounds like a good start |
| 19:01:23 | * | bluebroth3r goes trying to remove the headphone debouncing |
| 19:02:15 | kugel | gevaerts: I think I generally understood it; except for buflib_buffer_in() and _out() but I'll try to ping Unhelpful about it |
| 19:02:34 | pamaury | kugel: are you sure compaction is a good idea for dircache ? It's basically a bunch of pointers all over the place |
| 19:02:48 | | Join Stummi [0] (~Stummi@rockbox/developer/Stummi) |
| 19:03:01 | kugel | it should be manageable |
| 19:04:28 | pamaury | I mean, the cache is usually allocated at once, and it doesn't get really fragmented. Furthermore on each major FS action, it's rebuilt |
| 19:04:48 | [Saint] | He didn't ask if it was managaeable ;) |
| 19:04:51 | | Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@S0106485b3917092d.vs.shawcable.net) |
| 19:04:55 | [Saint] | He asked if it was a good idea. |
| 19:05:05 | bluebroth3r | [Saint]: what phone and Android version do you have? |
| 19:05:10 | kugel | pamaury: I'm not asking to compact the dircache :) |
| 19:05:34 | [Saint] | GT-i5503T (Baby Galaxy S) and 2.1.1 |
| 19:05:39 | [Saint] | bluebroth3r: ^ |
| 19:05:53 | kugel | but it should work in an environment where the dircache buffer is moved due to compaction of the main memory |
| 19:06:52 | kugel | pamaury: it's only rebuild on boot and usb-unplug, no? |
| 19:07:05 | pamaury | all disk mount/unmount too |
| 19:07:21 | kugel | what I said :) |
| 19:07:32 | pamaury | on compaction, basically half of the content will change since it will invalidate all pointers, except if you do it in a relative address mode |
| 19:07:43 | pamaury | you can unplug sd card |
| 19:07:52 | kugel | ah right |
| 19:08:53 | kugel | pamaury: I can walk the entire dircache to fix up pointers, and a relative address mode is already used |
| 19:08:58 | pamaury | Ok, so actually by explicitely using offsets instead of pointers, dircache can be made rather transparent to compaction |
| 19:08:58 | [Saint] | bluebroth3r: Howcome? |
| 19:09:53 | kugel | I can also make buflib call a user-supplied compaction function (it now does a simple memmove, but for dircache something with knowledge about the allocation might be better) |
| 19:10:33 | kugel | pamaury: that too, I just need to be careful about dircache_get_entry_ptr() |
| 19:10:47 | bluebroth3r | [Saint]: just wondering what devices are affected by this audio stops issue |
| 19:11:32 | pamaury | kugel: there are places other that dircache.c which use dircache pointers I think |
| 19:11:40 | bluebroth3r | hmm, posting SYS_PHONE_UNPLUGGED directly in button_tick doesn't fix the lag issue. It's much shorter now but still audible |
| 19:12:33 | | Quit [Saint] (Quit: I'm only going to Heaven if it feels like Hell, I'm only going to Heaven if it tastes like caramel...) |
| 19:13:20 | bluebroth3r | or I'm doing something wrong |
| 19:14:17 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 19:14:46 | | Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54B66D02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:14:52 | kugel | pamaury: like I said, every dircache_get_entry_ptr() caller needs special care, but the rest should work |
| 19:18:35 | pamaury | in fact there in only one dircache_get_entry_ptr() call in the firmware/ part and it's easily handled. However play_list.c stores explicit pointers so it needs care. And there tagcache which uses it too :( |
| 19:19:05 | CIA-87 | New commit by bluebrother (r29825): deploy.py: support adding a build id. ... |
| 19:20:31 | kugel | pamaury: in playlist.c it's done in a thread which seems to be just there to handle the case of the pointers getting invalid :) |
| 19:22:39 | CIA-87 | r29825 build result: All green |
| 19:24:08 | pamaury | I don't know, playlist.c is rather huge so beware :) |
| 19:24:35 | | Quit Keripo1 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 19:25:13 | kugel | great, it stores the pointer in a buffer_alloc'd buffer, that's my thing :p |
| 19:26:58 | pamaury | kugel: if you plan to change things in dircache.c, tell me because there might be an opportunity to reduce the memory footprint of dircache |
| 19:27:27 | | Part u42p ("Leaving") |
| 19:28:06 | kugel | pamaury: firstly I'll only drop-in replace buffer_alloc() with buflib_alloc(), compaction is a later step |
| 19:28:20 | kugel | and also resolve the nasty audiobuf[] access |
| 19:36:37 | | Quit L-Strife89 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 19:38:43 | kugel | I wonder if it's possible to have an git mirror at github? |
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| 19:46:59 | | Quit jerl92 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:47:47 | B4gder | kugel: I'd guess it should be possible |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:05:49 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:09:29 | kugel | B4gder: it would be nice because, because github has nice collaboration features, including an overview over the forks and a acceptable web interface |
| 20:09:51 | * | B4gder has a bunch of projects on github... |
| 20:10:32 | B4gder | although, github does "attract" a slightly different work flow that doesn't always work fine with group efforts such as Rockbox |
| 20:10:53 | B4gder | like the pull requests |
| 20:11:13 | kugel | we won't have pull requests I guess if it's just a mirrow |
| 20:11:31 | B4gder | you can't turn them off though so they will come... |
| 20:11:58 | kugel | I'd just like to quickly see what other rockbox'ers (who use git) are working on |
| 20:12:46 | B4gder | I'm a git and github fan so you have my sympathy |
| 20:12:54 | kugel | great :) |
| 20:13:14 | kugel | who's going to do the script work? :p |
| 20:13:41 | kugel | (/me thinks a github mirror is at the very least way better than the current rockbox.org one) |
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| 20:20:44 | | Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:20:44 | | Nick Xerion_ is now known as Xerion (~xerion@5419A078.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 20:27:55 | | Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 20:32:40 | | Join ibhan [0] (~ibhan@195.41.77.232) |
| 20:34:06 | pixelma | to add to the earlier discussion... I prefer the "unusable on 240x320 (my) screen" small square version of the widget with all buttons but no album art. I couldn't have told which number x number that actually refers to as I'm not informed or asked about it while creating the widget |
| 20:34:23 | bluebroth3r | B4gder: in case of a git mirror, can we use realname in the commits? |
| 20:35:04 | bluebroth3r | (i.e. use −−authors-file with git-svn) |
| 20:35:24 | pixelma | and I agree with kugel that the touch region commit is the wrong way around - &action should have stayed what it is and the added version that triggers only once should have gotten the *action |
| 20:38:47 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: I'd love to try one with an even larger buffer (and headphone unplug with debouncing removed if you managed that) :) |
| 20:39:52 | | Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:40:23 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: well, removing debouncing for headphone unplug didn't work for me. |
| 20:40:41 | Llorean | Oh? |
| 20:41:53 | bluebroth3r | maybe I changed the wrong code, haven't figured yet :) |
| 20:42:30 | Llorean | Aaah |
| 20:42:48 | Llorean | Well I'll happily try just the larger buffer too. |
| 20:43:03 | bluebroth3r | building right now. |
| 20:43:30 | | Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54B66D02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:47:46 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: new apk uploaded. Includes headphone detection, updated buffer (I used 16* minimum size) and resources on SD. |
| 20:48:04 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 20:48:15 | Llorean | Could you re-send me the link? |
| 20:48:29 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/ |
| 20:50:02 | | Join SJB [0] (~2e3ba363@giant.haxx.se) |
| 20:50:15 | Llorean | Thanks |
| 20:50:28 | SJB | hi, i got a porblem with rock box on sandisk e200 |
| 20:50:40 | SJB | doesnt shutdown |
| 20:50:44 | bluebroth3r | you're welcome :) |
| 20:50:45 | SJB | cant do anything |
| 20:50:57 | Llorean | SJB: Hold the power button for 30 seconds. |
| 20:50:59 | SJB | "Shutting down.." |
| 20:51:28 | SJB | k |
| 20:51:30 | SJB | wotks |
| 20:51:35 | SJB | works D |
| 20:51:48 | SJB | and the clock bug is fixed after "reboot" |
| 20:52:02 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: I'll let you know if it freezes again. What's the FS number for the increased buffer (if there is one)? |
| 20:52:04 | SJB | clock was showing random numbers |
| 20:52:28 | SJB | 1-2times per soecond it switched the time |
| 20:52:28 | pixelma | it would be way nicer and read better if you could try putting more of your thoughts one one line, not using enter as punctuation ;) |
| 20:53:33 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: FS |
| 20:53:34 | bluebroth3r | FS |
| 20:53:41 | * | bluebroth3r curses keyboard |
| 20:53:42 | AlexP | FFS? :) |
| 20:53:45 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: FS #12064 |
| 20:53:57 | bluebroth3r | german keyboard has # next to enter ... |
| 20:54:11 | AlexP | mine too (UK) |
| 20:55:42 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: Is there an expected downside of the larger buffer? |
| 20:56:26 | | Quit Horscht (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:56:57 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: none that I'm aware of. It uses more memory of course :) |
| 20:57:28 | bluebroth3r | but given the amount of memory those devices have I don't see a problem here. |
| 20:57:35 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: I'm not too worried about that personally. I'm still using less than half of my phone's RAM. |
| 20:58:20 | AlexP | What does Rockbox do in regards to that on phones? |
| 20:58:26 | AlexP | Allocate a fixed amount? |
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| 20:58:52 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: I haven't checked if the buffer size has effects on the responsiveness of playback. |
| 20:59:15 | Llorean | It doesn't *seem* to |
| 20:59:18 | Llorean | At least it pauses instantly |
| 20:59:28 | kugelp | I'd expect higher latency |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:02 | | Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 21:00:35 | bluebroth3r | there's a noticable lag when skipping with the 16* buffer on my phone |
| 21:01:39 | | Join gartral [0] (~gareth@ip184-189-215-49.cl.ri.cox.net) |
| 21:01:55 | bluebroth3r | but _if_ this fixes the audio stops issue for you we at least have another success report :) |
| 21:02:10 | bluebroth3r | (which is the reason I've used such a high value |
| 21:02:29 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: It already got stuck unpausing and pausing a couple times with headphone unplugging. But I'll see if it gets stuck with normal listening. |
| 21:02:34 | gartral | is there a problem in the recent nightlies that prevents the microSD card from mounting over usb on the Sansa e200? |
| 21:02:44 | gartral | known problem* |
| 21:02:45 | kugelp | 48k is still just ~.25s Aug audio so probably not a problem |
| 21:02:47 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: I'd guess it's not a buffer issue then. |
| 21:02:53 | bluebroth3r | hmm. |
| 21:04:21 | bluebroth3r | kugelp: I've used 16*getMinBufferSize(). The latter is 12ki on my phone, so it ends up with 192k. That's a noticable amound of lag :) |
| 21:04:50 | Llorean | On a related note, when I pause, and it resumes, it plays a little bit of audio *then* it skips back the 5 seconds it's supposed to. |
| 21:04:53 | Llorean | It's a little bit odd. |
| 21:05:01 | Llorean | Resumes on headphone replug, that is. |
| 21:06:01 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: I guess that is caused by the big buffer (and I assume there is nothing done about that buffer on pause-rewind) |
| 21:06:19 | Llorean | Yeah, that was my guess. |
| 21:06:20 | bluebroth3r | which might also be the thing when skipping with such a big buffer. |
| 21:06:31 | | Quit slooopy (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 21:06:38 | Llorean | Is this build from before or after the playback rework? |
| 21:07:03 | bluebroth3r | after. I.e. it's current svn. |
| 21:07:21 | Llorean | Isn't there a problem like this happening since the playback rework too? I remember some mention of it on the Clip? |
| 21:07:41 | bluebroth3r | don't know, haven't paid much attention to that |
| 21:07:57 | Buschel | playback hangs up reproducibly |
| 21:08:06 | Llorean | Buschel: Under what conditions? |
| 21:08:41 | pixelma | really? I couldn't reproduce hangs with the new engine yet |
| 21:08:44 | bluebroth3r | hmm, with the 4* buffer I need for stable playback on my phone there is also a hearable lag on jumping in the track |
| 21:08:45 | Buschel | for me: play a playlist (all tracks) for ~1h -> hangs up |
| 21:09:08 | Buschel | see FS #12093, learman reports the same |
| 21:09:12 | bluebroth3r | so maybe we need some Android buffer invalidation in that cases |
| 21:09:36 | Llorean | Buschel: For me it seems to be after 4 hours, but this is 48kbps or 32kbps audio |
| 21:09:40 | Llorean | So it may be a similar amount of buffer use... |
| 21:09:46 | | Quit bertrik (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:09:50 | pixelma | mostly using my M5 currently for listening longer times (and a mix of flac and mp3) |
| 21:10:04 | Llorean | Buschel: I haven't looked at the exact time, rather, but I know it seems to happen after I've been listening 'quite a while' |
| 21:10:46 | Buschel | from what I see so far (and what jhMike suggests) it might be connected to rebuffering... let's see, I am confident he will find the cause |
| 21:11:09 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: Maybe we shouldn't worry about the problem I'm having until the playback engine issue is nailed down. :) |
| 21:12:07 | kugelp | bluebroth3r: perhaps a combination of larger buffer and refilling earlier works best |
| 21:12:14 | pixelma | maybe it has to do with ARM then too as rebuffering happens quite often with flac on a 16MB RAM target and I haven't experienced this yet |
| 21:13:11 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: thinking about it, that lag on headphone pause might also be related to that buffer thing |
| 21:19:03 | kugelp | once it's in the buffer it can't be stopped |
| 21:19:30 | Llorean | Why does pause/unpause seem so responsive then? |
| 21:19:48 | Llorean | If we've got that buffer that will get consumed either way. |
| 21:20:00 | Llorean | I'm not trying to contradict you, rather just wondering what's going on in general. How it works. |
| 21:20:40 | pixelma | is the Clip+ one of the players we don't do an automatic reboot into OF (I tend to mix up the newer AMS Sansas) |
| 21:21:07 | CIA-87 | New commit by bluebrother (r29826): Fix whitespace errors aka tabs. |
| 21:22:05 | Llorean | pixelma: I believe so, yes. |
| 21:24:45 | CIA-87 | r29826 build result: All green |
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| 21:55:20 | | Part ibhan |
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| 22:00 |
| 22:02:08 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Welcome to the Internet, where the men are men, the women are men and the children are agents of the FBI) |
| 22:05:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:07:27 | B4gder | bluebroth3r: we're still not talking about a two-way mirror though so no commits from git would get back to svn |
| 22:08:13 | bluebroth3r | B4gder: I wasn't expecting that :) |
| 22:08:36 | bluebroth3r | but even for a one way svn -> git mirror it would be nice to see real names in the git log |
| 22:08:42 | B4gder | true |
| 22:09:17 | B4gder | well, anyone can just try it out and see what's working |
| 22:09:20 | bluebroth3r | and that can also clean up with the different casing used issue in svn |
| 22:10:01 | bluebroth3r | the name translation thingy or mirroring at github? |
| 22:10:06 | B4gder | both |
| 22:10:12 | sideral | Llorean: I've observed similar skip-back behavior with the rewind-on-pause patch (FS #11931). jhMikeS advised that the new playback engine requires a call to audio_pre_ff_rewind prior to any skipping to plush the pcm buffer (SWCODEC only), and that took care of my problem. Maybe this call missing in the path you're exercising? |
| 22:10:29 | sideral | s/plush/flush/ |
| 22:10:53 | bluebroth3r | flushing the pcm buffer seems like something Android could use too |
| 22:11:17 | * | bluebroth3r would try mirroring at github but doesn't have a machine running permanently to do that. |
| 22:11:42 | B4gder | well, to test out you could just do single-shot runs every now and then |
| 22:11:55 | B4gder | and once things work we can put the magic on the svn server |
| 22:29:11 | DEBUG | EOF from server (No route to host) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545) |
| 22:29:11 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:29:11 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:29:11 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:29:11 | *** | Exit |
| 22:29:13 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:29:13 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:29:13 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:29:13 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:29:13 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:29:13 | *** | Exit |
| 22:30:53 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:30:53 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:30:53 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:30:53 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:30:53 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:30:53 | *** | Exit |
| 22:32:40 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:32:40 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:32:40 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:32:40 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:32:40 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:32:40 | *** | Exit |
| 22:34:22 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:34:22 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:34:22 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:34:22 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:34:22 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:34:22 | *** | Exit |
| 22:36:01 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:36:01 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:36:01 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:36:01 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:36:01 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:36:01 | *** | Exit |
| 22:37:49 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:37:49 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:37:49 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:37:49 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:37:49 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:37:49 | *** | Exit |
| 22:39:31 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:39:31 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:39:31 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:39:31 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:39:31 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:39:31 | *** | Exit |
| 22:41:10 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:41:10 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:41:10 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:41:10 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:41:10 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:41:10 | *** | Exit |
| 22:42:57 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:42:57 | *** | Unable to connect to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 (tried 8 times) |
| 22:42:57 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:42:57 | *** | Cleanup |
| 22:42:57 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 22:42:57 | *** | Exit |
| 22:44:39 | *** | Started Dancer V4.16 |
| 22:44:39 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:44:39 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:44:39 | DEBUG | gethostbyname(2) failed for irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 99) |
| 22:44:39 | *** | Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667 |
| 22:44:39 | *** | Logfile for #rockbox started |
| 22:45:12 | Mode | "logbot :+i" by logbot |
| 22:45:15 | *** | Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag' |
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| 22:45:33 | B4gder | ick, there it is! |
| 22:45:48 | B4gder | Llorean: well, it would be easy to provide such output at least |
| 22:45:57 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: the problem is that the svn repository holds commits that don't belong to Rockbox itself (i.e. www) so the number would be off |
| 22:46:05 | B4gder | we could do a "commit-count + hash" |
| 22:46:09 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: It's already off, isn't it? |
| 22:46:16 | bluebroth3r | sure |
| 22:46:21 | Llorean | So I don't see a problem with that. |
| 22:46:46 | B4gder | if we just make our own describe command, we can get the "rev number" similar to the svn revision, and then we add the hash for git convenience |
| 22:46:50 | bluebroth3r | my local repository is at start-28408-g7d6ac7c but svn is at Revision: 29826 |
| 22:46:55 | Llorean | B4gder: I mean, to me, the only important thing is that there's some sort of constant sequential identifier. Since the tag can change arbitrarily and may not include identifiers that place it in time, a total commit count + hash would probably be better. |
| 22:47:47 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: Well, we'd know that all new identifiers come from after the changeover thanks to the inclusion of the hash anyway, so if they don't match / follow it's not too big a deal as long as they work from git-advent forward. |
| 22:47:50 | B4gder | "git log −−oneline | wc -l" gives the number, then we do git log −−oneline -1 | cut "-d " -f1 to get the hash to append to it |
| 22:48:04 | B4gder | and voila, very svn-like |
| 22:48:08 | gartral | B4gder: how long was the site down? |
| 22:48:16 | B4gder | ~30 minutes |
| 22:49:16 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:50:01 | lovasoa | Maybe I didn't install rockbox correctly... Or is it "normal" that utf8 filenames don't show up correctly? |
| 22:50:43 | stripwax | is your codepage set to utf8? |
| 22:50:55 | | Quit stripwax (Changing host) |
| 22:50:55 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@rockbox/developer/stripwax) |
| 22:51:47 | sideral | Hey AlexP, have you had a chance to try out FS #12073 (incrementally add files to DB) yet? |
| 22:54:05 | stripwax | lovasoa - my question was directed to you (in case it wasn't clear!) |
| 22:55:15 | | Quit lovasoa (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:56:46 | stripwax | oh well |
| 22:57:01 | | Join lovasoa [0] (~lovasoa@cac94-9-88-162-232-8.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:52 | AlexP | sideral: Sorry, completely slipped my mind |
| 23:01:04 | AlexP | I'm away this weekend, but will try ASAP |
| 23:01:04 | | Quit lovasoa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:01:56 | sideral | AlexP: I'd like to cash in on your Promise :) |
| 23:02:20 | stripwax | lovasoa - is this link relevant (from a quick google) - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13207.0;wap2 |
| 23:02:37 | | Quit Zambezi (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 23:02:38 | stripwax | lovasoa - specifically the bit that says " VFAT uses UCS-2 to encode the filenames, you can't simply use utf8 " |
| 23:02:43 | | Join Zambezi [0] (Zulu@80.67.9.2) |
| 23:03:23 | | Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) |
| 23:03:54 | | Quit bluebroth3r (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 23:04:22 | sideral | AlexP: Not the one you made 3 minutes ago, the other one −− The Promise |
| 23:07:21 | AlexP | I don't have some sort of weird ring if that is what you mean :) |
| 23:07:35 | AlexP | That boat has long since sailed |
| 23:07:54 | sideral | :) |
| 23:08:02 | sideral | AlexP: "2011-01-22 (00:37:57) AlexP: sideral: btw, did you ever get the chance to look if tracks can be added to the db as and when? I'll love you long time if that is possible :)" |
| 23:08:21 | AlexP | oh right, that :) |
| 23:08:59 | sideral | so, hurry up! ;) |
| 23:10:38 | AlexP | hehe :) |
| 23:14:14 | sideral | git heads, this may have scrolled by a little quickly in the heated discussion: |
| 23:14:14 | sideral | I'd like to commit FS #11880 (Include git commit ID in version string, as in "r29820+4406ff0-110505"). It concerns only us git users, no one else will notice and care. And it's in line with Torne's similar change for bzr. Any concerns? |
| 23:14:35 | Torne | sideral: how many characters are you going to include? |
| 23:14:47 | Torne | the number git decides is unique, or a fixed number? |
| 23:15:11 | sideral | right now is "+", 7 digits, plus an "M" if the checkout was modified |
| 23:15:40 | Torne | seems reasonable |
| 23:15:56 | Torne | i suggest you do it |
| 23:15:57 | Torne | :) |
| 23:16:54 | pamaury | Torne: you changed something to have the bzr version ? |
| 23:17:01 | Torne | yes, years ago :) |
| 23:17:12 | sideral | git uses 40-digit hex hashes, but 7 digits will be sufficiently unique, especially as long as the latest svn revision is included as well. It could even be much shorter than 7 digits |
| 23:17:18 | pamaury | ah ok, I thought it was recent :) |
| 23:17:19 | Torne | if you use bzr-svn to work on rockbox and compile somethign that's not a svn version you get r12345+bzr5342-date |
| 23:17:22 | Torne | or whatever |
| 23:17:35 | Torne | so that my revision numbers are meaningful :) |
| 23:18:32 | sideral | I chose 7 digits to have my version strings at the same length as Torne's ;) |
| 23:18:42 | Torne | sideral: actually mine are typically 8 |
| 23:18:56 | Torne | so the git ones would be shorter |
| 23:19:05 | sideral | dang |
| 23:19:24 | AlexP | mine go to 11 |
| 23:19:25 | Torne | the bzr revnos are similar in magnitude to the svn ones |
| 23:19:34 | Torne | (but different because my bzr repo only hast runk) |
| 23:19:39 | Torne | so they're 5 digits, plus "bzr" |
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| 23:20:55 | sideral | I see. Anyway, I find it indispensable to have the git commit id included in my test builds. Before I did this, I often lost track of what I actually tested |
| 23:22:25 | B4gder | we should have a test suite... |
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| 23:22:39 | Torne | sideral: yes, it's a very good thing, just commit it :) |
| 23:23:05 | AlexP | Some sort of automated testing would be luverly |
| 23:23:38 | B4gder | I would also agree that it would be more useful than switching version control |
| 23:24:35 | Torne | right. |
| 23:24:39 | AlexP | What sort of testing is envisaged? |
| 23:24:42 | bluebrother | with the help of the sim we could test quite a lot of code |
| 23:25:02 | sideral | I'd like to know if any of the git users would be concerned with the git commit ID in the version string |
| 23:25:03 | Torne | There's two slightly seperate things we could do that come under the banner of "testing" here |
| 23:25:08 | bertrik | I'm not really motivated to work on a test suite, to be honest |
| 23:25:20 | AlexP | sideral: doesn't bother me |
| 23:25:22 | Torne | we could start having actual tests that check rockbox works, which someone would have to write |
| 23:25:34 | Torne | and seperately we could have a way to queue patches to be built by the build system |
| 23:25:41 | Torne | with/without that also implying some actual testing |
| 23:25:55 | AlexP | In related stuff, I'd like to have a test questionnaire for users for RCs |
| 23:25:57 | Torne | both would be useful, and the effort required to implement the two are unrelated |
| 23:26:07 | Torne | AlexP: that would definately be good |
| 23:26:12 | bluebrother | AlexP: wasn't that proposed on the ML some time ago? |
| 23:26:18 | Torne | yes, but nobody wrote it yet :) |
| 23:26:22 | AlexP | bluebrother: It has come up a couple of times |
| 23:26:30 | bluebrother | something to work on during devcon ;-) |
| 23:26:39 | AlexP | I'll volunteer to have a bash at the questions |
| 23:26:44 | bluebrother | hmm, we need to extend devcon to 2 months to get all things done ;-) |
| 23:27:03 | AlexP | But it'd be nice to have a webpage for them to input it in |
| 23:27:28 | AlexP | Torne: How would a patch builduing system work? |
| 23:27:44 | bluebrother | well, that would basically one of those web based surveys |
| 23:27:50 | AlexP | bluebrother: yeah |
| 23:27:59 | Torne | AlexP: modify our current build system such that the master can tell teh slaves a diff as well as a revision number |
| 23:27:59 | bluebrother | and there should be something around that we could use, shouldn't it? |
| 23:28:08 | Torne | AlexP: and then seperate the results out somewhere different. |
| 23:28:21 | Torne | AlexP: this also works very well tying into a patch review system :) |
| 23:28:25 | AlexP | Torne: So devs could request test builds essentually? |
| 23:28:28 | Torne | AlexP: yes. |
| 23:28:35 | AlexP | sounds a good plan |
| 23:28:39 | Torne | AlexP: and if you also have a patch review system you can have the test build results appear on the patch review |
| 23:28:49 | AlexP | right |
| 23:29:05 | pamaury | what would tests look like ? I mean, a huge of our code is hard to test |
| 23:29:07 | AlexP | bluebrother: I'll wang it on the devcon agenda |
| 23:29:18 | Torne | actual tests are orthogonal as i said :) |
| 23:29:27 | Torne | just having a test build system that purely built things would have value |
| 23:29:35 | Torne | one that also did some testing woul dbe better, of course |
| 23:29:55 | B4gder | pamaury: we would start with testing the functions that are easy to test... |
| 23:30:19 | pamaury | if there are easy to test, they will never break |
| 23:30:27 | B4gder | that's not true |
| 23:30:38 | Torne | the easiest way to do full UI tests, though maybe not the best, would be to automate the sim with a regular UI testing framework |
| 23:30:39 | B4gder | tests also give people courage to rewrite and do larger changes |
| 23:30:43 | bluebrother | AlexP: something like that maybe? http://www.limesurvey.org/ |
| 23:30:56 | Torne | we could do that without modifying our code at all |
| 23:31:28 | Torne | the sim is just an app with normal input and output, there already exist UI test systems that can test that kind of stuff with varying degrees of cleverness :) |
| 23:32:00 | Torne | doing anything intricate there would be tricky, probably, but you can test that, say, initialising the database with a particular set of files didnt' crash. |
| 23:32:26 | AlexP | pamaury: Things may be easy to test, but it is impossible for a dev to test all tarrgets/combinations of features |
| 23:32:38 | AlexP | And with an ever growing number of targets... |
| 23:33:04 | AlexP | bluebrother: Yeah, something like that |
| 23:33:22 | bluebrother | AlexP: hehe, that "web questionnaire" is also topic in the thread linked in the "Testing" entry above :) |
| 23:33:23 | pamaury | I agree it's impossible and requesting a build on all targets is sensible. But beyong that, you need the real hardware |
| 23:34:11 | bluebrother | pamaury: you can test almost all UI code without any hardware. We just need a stub target for that which implements all features |
| 23:34:39 | bluebrother | "implement" as in "provides the functions, not the functionality" |
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| 23:35:51 | pamaury | Ok, let me rephrase: what would these tests catch and would it be valuable ? That's a real question |
| 23:36:15 | B4gder | pamaury: you never worked in a project with tests? |
| 23:36:46 | B4gder | they are good at making sure things work as they are supposed to, when things are modified |
| 23:37:06 | B4gder | if done right, they can work fine for debugging problems |
| 23:37:32 | B4gder | like imagine a test set mounting a FAT image running our target fs code |
| 23:37:44 | pamaury | I understand why tests are useful, but lots of our actual bugs/problems come from intricate hardware/software interaction |
| 23:37:55 | B4gder | I have no doubts we'd be able to find and fix several bugs that way |
| 23:38:26 | B4gder | pamaury: yes, and hw-related problems will still be there and will not be caught by tests that aren't on target |
| 23:38:54 | TheSeven | that's where a second on-target driver test suite might come into play |
| 23:39:08 | B4gder | true |
| 23:39:24 | bertrik | writing tests will usually also make you aware of flaws in the specifications/intended features :) |
| 23:39:57 | bluebrother | and it can prove if someone claims a functionality to work a specific way if it does (or not) |
| 23:40:24 | TheSeven | that kind of on-hw tests would not only help doing regression testing, but also ease porting to new targets, as bugs can be caught at a way lower level |
| 23:41:01 | TheSeven | e.g. I wouldn't have spent several days tracking down why codec performance was terrible on the ipod classic before I realized that there was actually a bug in the PCM driver |
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| 23:41:58 | pamaury | unfortunately there will always be cases like this one :-/ |
| 23:42:18 | bluebrother | sure, but minimizing the number of those cases is a good thing |
| 23:42:18 | TheSeven | yeah, but that particular one could have been caught really easily |
| 23:42:25 | bluebrother | and it's doable :) |
| 23:42:49 | TheSeven | the question is whether it's worth the effort, but I'm fairly sure it is... |
| 23:43:02 | | Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:43:51 | bluebrother | I'm pretty sure it's worth it. |
| 23:44:23 | bluebrother | my personal feeling is that Rockbox has become less stable and more buggy in the last years. |
| 23:44:52 | bluebrother | and since it's kinda feature complete (what features are really missing?) improving quality should really become a goal |
| 23:45:05 | bluebrother | (as in: become even more a goal than it is these days) |
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| 23:58:10 | | Part ibhan ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") |
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