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#rockbox log for 2011-05-05

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00:18:43CIA-87New commit by bluebrother (r29824): Rockbox Utility: add build id to version string. ...
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00:28:08bluebroth3rhanging build?
00:28:18CIA-87r29824 build result: All green
00:28:37 Join Gnos [0] (
00:28:42bluebroth3rah, slow one only
00:29:51Gnosnot a big deal, but maybe someone would like to know about this: If you update RB, disconnect, and the player immediately voices the battery level, the prompt to reboot RB disappears.
00:31:33sideralThanks Gnos! It would be nice if you could file a bug report, though, otherwise this issue likely will get lost
00:32:23Gnossideral: okay I will file bug rep
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00:42:05sideralbluebrother: The comment in the commit you just checked in needs fixing: it talks about BUILD rather than BUILDID
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00:46:21GnosHere's the "ROLO prompt disappears when battery level is voiced" FS:
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05:54:21JdGordonrasher: how's your java?
05:55:49JdGordon is probably what we *should* be doing
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07:41:29rasherJdGordon: that seems to rely on the mediastore at a quick glance - a no-go for Rockbox
07:43:14JdGordonim not so sure
07:43:38JdGordonline 136+
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08:25:50rasherJdGordon: ah.. in my defense I was reading the code on my phone..
08:26:16rasherSo we set audioid = -1 and add stuff to the intent.
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08:26:46JdGordonrasher: I guess so.. I dont really know
08:26:54rasherWell that's what it looks like :)
08:26:56JdGordonthat does seem like the most sane way to do it
08:27:37rasherThis does have the problem that we'd have to keep up with any future (and past!) changes in the native music player, whereas the scrobbledroid api is probably unlikely to change, since it already has what's needed
08:27:46rasherBut I agree it seems nicer to emulate the native app
08:28:06JdGordonand re-reading the logs, I misunderstood a bit... i agree that our suport shuold probably repsect the rockbox setting
08:30:55JdGordonOK, well really the best way would be writing a seperate rbutil app and have a setting in that which listens for rockbox-specific broadcasts, and then in that we can choose which media playeer to emulate
08:30:58rasherJust seems wasteful that we'll be writing the logfile still :\
08:31:11JdGordonwe wouldnt need to
08:31:12rasherThat seems vastly overkill
08:31:23rasherJdGordon: some people seem very attached to the idea of keeping the log
08:31:59JdGordonthis is a good reason for rbutil
08:32:13JdGordonactually no thats stupid, rbutil should just do the scrobbling by itself
08:32:18JdGordonor pass off to another app
08:32:25rasherThen we're re-inventing the wheel again
08:32:38JdGordonyeah, but this time we'll get it right!
08:32:55rasherBut we already have several perfectly good and circular wheels!
08:41:53n17ikhwhat if my road is like this?
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09:52:58[Saint]That reminds me...
09:53:04[Saint]dionoea, ping?
09:53:37JdGordonan hour of silence?
09:53:50Lloreandionoea: In the Rockbox Android Widget, for me at least, the Prev/Next buttons don't seem to do anything if I have Skip Length set. I didn't build myself, so I can't test on other builds, and it does have two patches (which I believe should be unrelated)
09:53:56LloreanThey work like normal in the WPS though.
09:54:12[Saint]I'm thinking that the "Small Square" widget could be done a little better also.
09:54:21[Saint]I've looked, but the codes a bit foreign to me.
09:54:30LloreanI'm only interested in the "Line" widget anyway. :)
09:54:40LloreanIt fits nicely on the screen with my Pandora and Audible widgets.
09:54:41[Saint]IMO, the RB logo should be swapped out with the "while playing" image when there's playback.
09:55:00LloreanThe RB logo does look a little funny in the Line widget too.
09:55:28[Saint]It's ok when the widget isn't playing audio.
09:55:32LloreanBut pause on headphone resume, unpause on headphone reinsert and "being able to skip back 30 seconds with a single button" are the three things I want it to do.
09:55:46LloreanThe first has a patch, not sure about the second, the third would be available if not for a bug.
09:55:48[Saint]but, it looks funny on anything other than "square" while there's playback IMO
09:56:25Llorean[Saint]: I dunno. It feels like there's too much empty space around it for me. It'd be nice if we developed a square-form of our Logo for such uses.
09:56:42LloreanIt's a narrow rectangle in space clearly meant to be filled by a nearly square object (album art) and looks odd to me.
09:56:50LloreanBut that's just aesthetics, and not a big deal
09:56:53[Saint]I think it looks ok when there's no playback.
09:57:07[Saint]But, when there is, the RB logo is too much for "small square"
09:57:19[Saint]it should swap for the "now playing" image during playback.
09:57:26LloreanI haven't seen it in small square. As I said, only used line.
09:57:28[Saint]this keeps it in sync with the wps also
09:57:31 Join JesusChrysler [0] (
09:57:54*Llorean also wishes hitting the play button in the widget could start Rockbox even if it's not running, and resume, but that's not as important.
10:00:06[Saint]Llorean: it does.
10:00:22[Saint]As long as the service is started, it will start.
10:00:47*[Saint] just tested this.
10:00:51LloreanI did say "start Rockbox if it's not running" though
10:01:13[Saint]well, it's not "running".
10:01:17[Saint]but it's *been* started.
10:01:39LloreanWhat's that state, exactly?
10:01:53LloreanI mean "start Rockbox when clicking the middle of the widget would show you the boot screen, rather than going directly to the menu".
10:01:58[Saint]ie. "start RB, shut down, use play button on the widget, rb starts"
10:02:16LloreanHrm, didn't do that for me earlier. Let me test again.
10:02:58LloreanHmm, seems to work now
10:03:02LloreanMaybe it was just being buggy at the time
10:03:09LloreanIt's been having the occasional playback bug for me.
10:03:12LloreanIt would just... stop playing
10:03:17[Saint]errr...yay working, not yay buggy.
10:03:20LloreanIt would say it's playing, but the progress bar wouldn't move any more
10:03:27[Saint]yeah, known bug.
10:03:33[Saint]Can you build you own .apk?
10:03:42[Saint]want one?
10:03:55LloreanI wasn't really expecting to use it much yet, so I didn't bother learning how yet. I should
10:04:22Llorean[Saint]: What's in it? Right now I've got two of bluebroth3r's patches (one offloads some of the data to the SD card, the other increases the buffer because of skipping on his phone)
10:05:02[Saint]Oh, you have those? The second you mentioned there is the main one in my build I was expecting to fix it.
10:05:27[Saint]Odd, it cleared up the issues for pixelma, myself, and bluebroth3r
10:05:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:05:38[Saint]weird that you're still getting audio-dropouts.
10:05:38LloreanI don't get any skipping at all
10:05:46LloreanThere's no small dropouts or anything
10:06:01LloreanIt just stops and stays stopped until I trigger an actual Stop/Resume.
10:06:03[Saint]No, but big "I'm just not going to play, anything" dropouts?
10:06:09LloreanSeeking or pausing/unpausing do nothing
10:06:18LloreanYes, big "I'm done playing now" dropouts
10:06:20[Saint]Yeah, that's what I was experiencing too.
10:06:29[Saint]bluebroth3r's patch fixed that up for me.
10:06:37[Saint]perhaps you need *more* buffer still?
10:06:57LloreanI dunno, I thought it was more about buffer underruns and "skips" in the audio.
10:07:01*Llorean maybe misunderstood
10:07:27[Saint]I've looked at the code, but I can't quite follow what's really happening.
10:07:46LloreanI've got tons of RAM free, and nothing really going on that I'd expect to interfere with playback. It's an extremely low bitrate MP3, so I'd be rather surprised.
10:07:48[Saint]I can see what the patch does, but the mechanism is insane (to me :))
10:07:56 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia
10:08:15*Llorean shrugs.
10:08:39LloreanDo you remember the patch number?
10:08:50[Saint]You're not running a task killer or any sillyness like that?
10:08:55[Saint](have to ask, some do)
10:08:58*JdGordon wants headphone detection in raaaoa in svn
10:09:10 Nick kugel_ is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
10:09:15Llorean[Saint]: Nothing.
10:09:18[Saint]JdGordon: Yeah, I was going to ask Llorean where he found that patch. ;)
10:09:30[Saint]but I got sidetracked re: audio-dropouts.
10:09:30LloreanJdGordon: Does our headphone detection support "resume on insert" or not? I've never really used it.
10:09:42Llorean[Saint]: It's on the tracker. Bluebrother put it up there yesterday.
10:09:53[Saint]Ah, explains why I haven't seen it yet.
10:09:56LloreanThe only problem he mentions is that it's a little delayed, since detection is slow on Android.
10:10:10[Saint]that's cool.
10:10:13LloreanWhich should be fixable - I have other apps that do it without any 'leaked' audio through the speakers
10:10:24[Saint]better than blasting myself with my incredibly loud internal speaker ;D
10:10:43JdGordonalso in the build im using the lock screen controls dont control rockbox
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10:10:45LloreanWith headphone detection and a working "skip back 30 seconds" button on the widget, I'll be set.
10:10:55LloreanJdGordon: Lock screen controls?
10:11:10[Saint]JdGordon: Like, the "cancel" button?
10:11:45[Saint]that seems...weird. but, maybe useful.
10:11:52JdGordonthe pause button starts the stock media player
10:12:25[Saint]"lock screen controls"?
10:12:33[Saint] I'm confused.
10:12:53[Saint]I can't control media while the screen is locked.
10:12:56LloreanAh, some ROMs seem to have a lock screen with music controls
10:13:10[Saint]Hmmm, good idea.
10:13:23LloreanOr even display some of your widgets on it
10:13:33kugelp[Saint], Llorean: I'm seeing no rockbox logo but album art :-)
10:13:48[Saint]kugelp: stop playback
10:14:00Lloreankugelp: Album Art is fine. I just wish we had a more album art shaped Rockbox logo for use there. :)
10:14:50[Saint]for "small square" the logo is displayed when there's no playback, and dissappears when there is, but there's enough room to put the "now playing" image, and IMO it looks weird without it.
10:15:31kugelp[Saint]: I know the logo. you said it should change while playing, it changes to album art for me :-)
10:16:07[Saint]Yeah, seems I was getting confused between small/big square.
10:17:09[Saint]and I forgot what actually annoyed me it seems. Now I have my phone in front of me it's clear. in "Square" the "now playing" image is always displayed.
10:17:21[Saint]whether there's playback or not.
10:18:20[Saint]Also, the default sizes of the widgets are weird.
10:19:01[Saint]for "Square" on 240x320, there's *no* point in having the widget smaller than 4x4 (fullscreen) or the text gets cut off while playing.
10:19:39[Saint]yet the default creation size is 3x3
10:19:51[Saint]*"big square" rather
10:20:32Llorean[Saint]: 3x3 contains plenty of space on a higher resolution target.
10:20:34[Saint]"square" is the same.
10:20:37LloreanWhich is probably more common.
10:20:43LloreanIt might be nice if there was a 4x4 option by default
10:20:50[Saint]Default creation size is 2x2, which is again far too small to fit everything.
10:20:58*Llorean doesn't like "square", "line", "small square" and prefers "4x1", "2x2", etc
10:21:50Llorean[Saint]: It seems the widgets are definitely oriented around 480x800 screens. I'm not seeing that problem, and I've got a very long track name.
10:22:04[Saint]Yeah, I'm pretty sure the widgets weren't tested very thoroughly on "small" screens
10:22:16[Saint]240x320, 320x480
10:23:04[Saint]for "big square", if I leave the defaults, I get half a line of text for metadata
10:24:09kugelpadding a 4x4 widget should be easy
10:24:26kugelphuge square :-)
10:24:45[Saint]we don't need a million widgets. But, can we check the screen size and use a sane default for the layout?
10:25:01Llorean[Saint]: Sounds like it mainly just needs better font size selection?
10:25:09[Saint]I mean, for 240x320, the defaults are useless for everything but "line"
10:25:18LloreanBased on the DPI of the screen rather than absolute size, perhaps.
10:25:33[Saint]Llorean: Nah, if the font did couldn;t possibly be read by the human eye ;)
10:26:02Llorean[Saint]: If that's true, then 2x2 and 3x3 are both pointless anyway on those targets, right?
10:26:26LloreanShould we really offer different sized widgets for different screens?
10:26:45[Saint]No, I just think we should offer sane defaults based on screen size.
10:27:03LloreanI'm confused.
10:27:12LloreanYou said 2x2 and 3x3 are pointless.
10:27:19[Saint]same widgets, but with variable creation time size defaults.
10:27:22LloreanI don't get options for the size, "large square" is always 3x3
10:27:39LloreanIf it's 4x4 it's not the same widget, is it?
10:27:39[Saint]really? odd.
10:27:55[Saint]you can resize any widget to any size.
10:28:04[Saint]well...*I* can.
10:28:08LloreanAnd that's not some app you've got doing that?
10:28:12[Saint]if you can't, that's..odd.
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10:28:31[Saint]I had assumed it was a part of the widget creation.
10:28:49LloreanWhen I create the Rockbox widget, it asks me if I want cover art, prev, stop, play/pause, and next buttons. That's it.
10:28:57[Saint]perhaps it's my launcher doing this.
10:29:13LloreanThat'd be my guess.
10:29:24LloreanWhat would be the point in having a 2x2 and a 3x3 if you could just resize the box to any size at creation?
10:29:27LloreanWe'd instead just do that.
10:30:10[Saint]Perhaps we *should* be doing that.
10:30:26[Saint]I probably wouldn't use the widgets if I couldn;t resize them.
10:30:32[Saint]apparently it's possible to do so.
10:30:50[Saint]I just didn't think it was my launcher doing it, but it seems so.
10:31:04[Saint]s/it/the resizing/
10:31:29LloreanWe should probably drop the 3x3 for a 4x4
10:31:36LloreanWhich would meet your needs, and 3x3 is a really odd size anyway
10:33:24[Saint]that still leaves "smal square"
10:33:37LloreanSmall square is fine on higher res targets
10:33:38[Saint]which defaults to 2x2 on my device, and is unusable like that.
10:33:44LloreanWe'd have 2x2, 4x1, and 4x4
10:33:55[Saint]2x2 is pointless on thses screens
10:33:59LloreanPeople with your device would likely choose 4x4, while people on mine might choose 2x2 if they're short on space.
10:34:08Llorean[Saint]: And 4x4 is a huge waste of space on screens like mine.
10:34:41[Saint]Yeah, so we really need a way to offer either configuration at creation time, or offer sane defaults based on screen dimension.
10:34:59Llorean2x2 and 4x4 *would* be sane defaults.
10:35:04[Saint]configuration at creation time would be awesome.
10:35:31[Saint]unless you're talking about dropping a widget.
10:35:35LloreanAccording to you, your screen the only sane default for a box is 4x4
10:35:45LloreanThere's very little difference between small box and large box other than their size
10:35:50[Saint]for "small square" the default is 2x2 on my phone. this is unusable.
10:35:51LloreanIf they're both 4x4, one's not small any more is it?
10:36:07LloreanYou're talking about having two different 4x4 widgets.
10:36:13LloreanFor targets with your screen resolution
10:36:28LloreanThis isn't "sane defaults". Some people just want a play/pause button and don't even care about the track title
10:36:33Llorean2x2 should manage that fine even on your device.
10:36:58[Saint]Yes, but half of AA and 3px of metadata look awful.
10:37:05LloreanSo turn off AA
10:37:07LloreanIt's an option.
10:37:18LloreanDon't use the small box if you want AA on a tiny screen.
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10:37:54LloreanStretching small box to fullscreen just to show AA rather defeats the purpose of offering a small widget that doesn't take up much space. Let people use them as intended - small for minimalist controls, large for more information.
10:37:55[Saint]It seems as though small square probably shouldn;t even be an option on this screen size.
10:38:13[Saint]It's only usable because I can resize it with the launcher at creation time.
10:38:31Llorean[Saint]: You're too obsessed with AA. Using it for a play/pause button without having to go back to the app would work, wouldn't it?
10:39:03LloreanTurn off everything but the Play/Pause button.
10:39:58[Saint]Yeah, actually, that's pretty much the only way it's usable.
10:40:04LloreanThat's pretty much what it should be for.
10:40:26LloreanWe shouldn't take away the option for someone to have a widget that only takes up a couple spots, just because it can't show AA.
10:40:29[Saint]Hmmm, I wonder if we could default cover art etc off for the small square then.
10:40:32[Saint]that's a start.
10:40:36LloreanProbably should
10:40:40LloreanThey seem to all default to the same options.
10:41:35LloreanI think small box should stay 2x2, large box should go up to 4x4 (as 3x3 seems senseless to me - it sacrifices most of the rest of your space for anything but icons or a line anyway) and line should stay the same (size-wise)
10:42:34[Saint]Yep, I agree. With the exception (as mention earlier) that small square should default cover art and (maybe?) prev/next off also.
10:44:32LloreanPersonally, I'd default to offering the "Play/Pause" and "Prev" buttons, but I use it for audiobooks and have "Prev" set to "skip back 30 seconds"
10:44:39LloreanA button Audible offers and comes in very handy
10:44:40[Saint]and "big square" needs to not display "now playing" *all the time* ;)
10:46:19[Saint]hah...during this conversation I ended up with 14 RaaA widgets on 7 homescreens... ;)
10:53:13[Saint]Llorean: Just looked at the pause on unplug tracker task, made a comment there but figured I can talk to you here with more ease. I think it's possible (if the delay is indeed unavoidable between detecting unplug and pausing) that the application you're talking about is muting playback when it catches the unplug event.
10:53:33[Saint]And, if so, we should probably do the same to avoid the "bleeding" through the internal speaker.
10:53:36Llorean[Saint]: I thought the delay was between unplug and detection of unplug
10:53:43LloreanI can't imagine a delay in *pausing* would be the unavoidable part.
10:54:03LloreanSince we can obviously pause nearly instantly on button press.
10:54:16[Saint]Oh, ah...yes. It seems I read it incorrectly.
10:54:37[Saint]He states "this is an Android limitation"..I wonder how the app you're talking of gets around it.
10:55:02LloreanI can imagine a delay in detection of the unplug happening, but I imagine Android is still playing back through the headphone port during this delay, so nothing 'leaks' through the speaker (though we may lose a fraction of a second of audio)
10:55:14LloreanSo you don't 'see' the delay
10:55:21LloreanPossibly followed by a slight rewind to make up for the delay
10:56:50n1sthe delay is after rockbox detects the unplug but before it sends the event, to debounce on glitchy jacks it double checks, while i *guess* that the redirection to speaker is something android does
10:57:06Lloreann1s: Do we need to debounce on android, or can we depend on the OS to do it?
10:57:17LloreanI don't see the icon on the status bar flickering during plugs, so I'm guessing they might
10:57:19n1sno idea
10:58:18*Llorean suggests we should try it without debouncing first.
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11:16:31wodz|workDo we have error codes comming from storage layer standarized? (aka error codes from sd_read_sectors()/sd_write_sectors() )
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11:17:50smkhi. anyone here who can help me with aac/libfaad?. was working on the libfaad task in Mr.SomeOne's list
11:18:18smkhave some questions.
11:19:21n1ssmk: just ask
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11:20:47smkok. i put debug info in faad_malloc where malloc is being called. and played m4a songs in the sim. for every song played, 3 calls to malloc are made. i traced these calls and replaced them with static allocations. it's working properly. what should i do now?
11:22:01smkand also, there are places in code where faad_malloc is called,. but these aren't run when i play the m4a songs. i only considered on scenario where faad_malloc could be called. that is, playing a song.. :P
11:22:11smk*one scenario
11:23:35pamaurywodz|work: I don't think there are standard error codes
11:23:57smkso, when i play the aac songs now, no calls to malloc are made...hmm is that the task? or should i be taking care of something else?
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11:26:12wodz|workpamaury: maybe we should agree on some standard errors?
11:27:08pamauryI don't know, would it be useful ?
11:28:25[Saint]smk: Nice work, by the way.
11:28:43wodz|workpamury: now you have to dig through the code to understand what error -11; in bootloader means :-)
11:29:15wodz|workwith standard error codes we can map this to error messages
11:29:46smkthanks :). but as i said, some parts of the code still have calls to malloc, but i didn't care to replace them , as they didn't actually make the calls when the audio was run. what should i do next?
11:30:47pamaurythat's true, but that would mean going through a lot of code and also possibly introduce some more strings to translate about errors. But I agree this would be easier for debugging
11:30:52[Saint]I would maybe investigate when those calls to malloc *are* made?
11:31:04[Saint]smk: ^
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11:31:41wodz|workpamaury: I don't think we need to translate low level errors
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11:33:53pamauryI guess that (perhaps after some discussion) we could introduce standard error code, starting at -100 so that standard code don't interfere with ad hoc ones and slowly begin to use them
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11:36:32wodz|workpamury: yeh, coexisting new codes with old ones is a must. No one will fix all at once
11:38:27n1ssmk: there are different kinds of aac files that use different features of the codec, maybe all your files are the same profile? Also how did you decide on the size for those static allocations? and you should probably talk to Buschel, since he did some work on that codec not long ago
11:41:43smk[Saint]: yeah, i found where the calls are coming from, found out how much memory is each such call asking for. and replaced them with static alloc.
11:43:04[Saint]as n1s just mentioned, there are different types of AAC files, have you thrown all test cases at it?I'd recomend using the files from test_files
11:43:22smkn1s: yes, i have considered only one test case. there would be others. some of the replacements were straight-forward. where a pointer to a struct is malloc'd , i replace it with struct itself and also replace the used areas.. as in structPointer -> abc becomes
11:44:18n1sah, ok so they were already statically sized
11:44:38[Saint]smk: for other instances of AAC files, you might make use of
11:45:24[Saint]I'm not actually certain there are any in there though.
11:45:30[Saint]been a while since I looked.
11:46:02n1sthe nero* files are aac, definitely try the he files
11:46:15smk[Saint]: will sift through them. yeah there are some m4a files here, will need to check the other formats though.
11:46:50n1sand it's possible that the different bitrates use different features so try perhaps 96 and 400 kbps
11:47:35n1swe don't seem to have any raac files
11:47:56smkoh yeah, raac also will use faad.
11:48:05[Saint]rockbox as a codec? ;)
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11:58:08pamaurywodz|work: do you a room in a hotel or something for devcon ? when do you leave ?
11:59:22Buschelsmk: please check FS #8923 and r29778. I made several changes to libfaad in the past weeks to get rid of malloc. if you enable FAAD_STATIC_ALLOC there will be only 3 mallocs left. those are called from libm4a/demux.c and will *heavily* differ from file to file (see FS #8923)
11:59:36Buschelsmk: allocation go up to 540 KB for a single song
12:00:54Buschelsmk it would be technically easy to remove malloc, but imho we will then have to use a large static buffer and use a libfaad-internal malloc-implementation to efficiently use it.
12:01:38Buschelsmk: it is not reasonable to use static buffers for each single malloc that is used
12:03:30Buschelsmk: it is even reasonable to not define FAAD_STATIC_ALLOC (svn does also not define it) to not waste RAM with static buffers which are not used (e.g. when playing AAC-LC files)
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12:06:00smkBuschel: right. what other approach then?
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12:08:49Buschelsmk: create a large static buffer, write libfaad-specific malloc (can be easily derived from the current one) and use it :) the size of the static buffer can then be of different size for different targets
12:09:09Buschelsmk: I do not see any other elegant possibility
12:11:36smkBuschel: the size of the buffer would then be a worst-case size. we might not use the whole or most part of the buffer for most of the time.
12:12:54Buschelsmk: there is no worst case. the memory requirements of demux.c will mostly scale with both the type of m4a-structure used and the length of the file (number of frames).
12:13:18Buschelsmk: as I wrote -> 540 KB for ~2h duration m4a
12:13:40Buschelsmk: but might also be 170 KB for 2h... depends on the file...
12:14:09smkBuschel: didn't think of a 2h duration file :)
12:14:14wodz|workpamury: I didn't booked hotel yet. I have return flight 05 june 17:50
12:14:34Buschelsmk: but we must be able to play those
12:15:20Buschelsmk: we should not loose playability through any changes
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12:16:06Buschelsmk: btw, did you see r29778? from your posts today I got the impression you worked a similar approach on older code of rockbox?
12:17:33Buschelsmk: for large files you might take a look inot FS #8923. there are links to some very long files
12:17:50smkBuschel: i had started earlier. then xams came. resuming now... m still using the old code though :P.
12:18:52Buschelsmk: you should sync to the current one. It has changed a lot regarding malloc and static buffer usage.
12:19:33Buschelsmk: ok, gotta go now. see you later!
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12:19:57smkBuschel : sure. thanks :). Will update.
12:40:17[Saint]pixelma: froggyman: Llorean: (possibly?) -
12:40:19[Saint]"current svn head with: antialiased fontset, large iconset (480x800 build only), "eye-candy" Rockbox logo (app and widgets), resources on uSD, fix audio dropouts, headphone detection, meier crossfeed, adjustable inter-ear delay, shutdown in main menu, icon/list spacing, quickscreen timeout"
12:41:44[Saint]320x480 build lacks my custom theme, but a: it has a few quirks, and b: cabbieV2 is still the default for the build anyway.
12:42:07 Part smk ("Leaving")
12:42:22[Saint](it's quite usable, though, it's me default theme...but, I'm biased as I built it)
12:44:27[Saint]ps-auxw: sorry about the ~15MB download, it was easier to package them all together.
12:44:59[Saint]damn nick completion, sorrp ps-auxw, 'twas supposed to be "PS:"
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12:57:56kugelphow is meier crossfeed?
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12:58:48[Saint]It's nice, but I personally prefer using the adjustable inter-ear delay.
12:59:59kugelpwhy aren't those in svn? bertrik put them up didn't he?
13:00:18[Saint]Yes, he did. And I'm not sure why to be honest.
13:00:54[Saint]The two patches work together very nicely if you want to use the meier crossfeed or continue to use the rb one with adjustable delay.
13:02:05kugelpI'll justgive your build a try :-)
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13:11:55kugelpLlorean: 3x3 is my favorite widget
13:17:04Lloreankugelp: I guess it just seems a strange size to me. It leaves too little room for most other widgets, and to me seems it may as well be 4x4. But we could just offer 2x2, 3x3, and 4x4 anyway
13:18:32TorneLlorean: i dunno, almost all of my "widgets" are just shortcut icons, so 3x3 leaves room for seven of them :)
13:18:40*[Saint] just discovered that depends vastly on ones desktop setup
13:19:05Torneand most of the remainder are 4x1 so there's room for one of those also
13:19:24[Saint]I mean, I can set the desktop colums to 8, so 3x3 is nothing.
13:20:19[Saint]is the default desktop colums always 4?
13:21:09Llorean[Saint]: Default desktop is 4x4
13:21:20LloreanIf you're 8x8 I can easily see why you might have difficulty seeing things on a 3x3
13:21:39LloreanEspecially on a 240x320 screen. Jeeze.
13:21:40[Saint]Oh, no...I just discovered I could change that now.
13:22:03[Saint]when I was playing earlier it was 4X4
13:22:17kugelp[Saint]: you obviously have a non-standard homescreen setup
13:22:36LloreanTorne: I seem to use a lot of 4x1 and a few 4x2 widgets.
13:22:51TorneLlorean: right. so 3x3 is not entirely useless..
13:23:00Torne4x1, 3x3, and three icons
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13:23:15LloreanI don't mean to say totally useless, it just seems like an odd (pardon the pun) size
13:23:19Torneheh :)
13:23:23LloreanThe 2x2 fits just as much information on my screen
13:23:28kugelpnormally you are limited to 4x4 and can't reside widgets, but I know many launcher don't have this limitation
13:23:30Tornei've not actualyl used rockbox on android yet
13:23:34Torneso.. yeah
13:23:35LloreanSo the 3x3 feels like it's just wasting space to waste space more than anything
13:23:45Tornei have no idea if it's reasonable from the POV of what is actually displayed
13:23:51[Saint]kugelp: yes, custom launcher.
13:23:54TorneLlorean: maybe people with really long song titles :)
13:24:08LloreanI feel like if we're going to only offer three widgets (something I don't actually care about, 4 or more is fine by me) 2x2 and 4x4 is better than 2x2 and 3x3
13:24:09[Saint]I actually thought that RaaA was doing the widget resizing initially, not my launcher.
13:24:15[Saint]as I never use any other widgets.
13:25:44kugelpand yea, the layout of our widgets are not prepared for being resized
13:26:07kugelpLlorean: no reason we couldn't offermore widget sizes
13:26:08[Saint]it's quite fun to be able to stretch and resize widgets...I was a little dissappointed when I found out it was the launcher handling this.
13:26:19[Saint]I assumed it was some awesome feature RaaA had ;)
13:26:36Lloreankugelp: Yeah, I don't see why we shouldn't. Someone just said they didn't think we did, and my response was "well if we limit ourselves to three, I think 2x2, 4x4 and 4x1 is better than 2x2, 3x3, and 4x1"
13:27:25[Saint]Instead of having ten million widgets in the list though...could there be one RaaA widget, which you then select the setup of?
13:27:45[Saint]that would seen a lot nicer to me personally.
13:27:48kugelpwell, opinions :-) imo the 2x2 one would be the one to drop :-)
13:28:02[Saint]As opposed to having 5 or 6 different rockbox widgets listed.
13:28:22kugelp[Saint]: I don't think that's possible
13:28:28[Saint]Awww :/
13:28:31[Saint]Oh well.
13:29:34Torneyou can have options that change what is dispalyed *in* the widget, but the widget's size is fixed, yes
13:30:03Tornethe option popup, if present, is entirely the widget provider's business, the launcher is not involved in processing it
13:30:13[Saint]kugelp: The widgets actually handle being resized quite well, just not *very* well ;)
13:30:44[Saint]the logo and the icons resize decently, but AA, metadata placement is screwed up if you go too small.
13:32:10[Saint]Torne: Well, after RaaA pops up it's config options, immediately after pressing "create" my launcher shows me another popup to choose the displayed size.
13:32:22[Saint]It took me a while to figure out it was the launcher doing that.
13:32:38[Saint]I assumed it was part of the widget setup.
13:32:45Torne[Saint]: I *think* that's a dramatic abuse of APIs and will break lots of widgets or make them display oddly
13:32:57Tornebecause the widget interface is pretty much not designed for that :)
13:33:09Torneso relying on that is not a sensible idea :)
13:33:18Torneand trying to support it explicitly is going to run into limitations
13:33:33[Saint]works fine. It's so it can handle resizing the widgets for different homescreen orientations.
13:33:57[Saint]though I realise it's "non-standard" (now)
13:34:44LloreanWe could just make a 1x1, 2x1 and 2x2 allowing the 2x1 and 2x1 to only contain track names or album art (for the 2x2) , and the 1x1 to contain any of the single buttons we already offer, then just let the user figure out how they want to distribute them on the screen. :-P
13:35:17[Saint]"touch to launch rockbox"? ;)
13:35:21LloreanI'm guessing you didn't read all the way through before saying that?
13:35:26[Saint] *icon*? ;P
13:35:30Torne[Saint]: I have a 1x1 widget for my podcast player, works fine
13:35:36LloreanI was in part joking
13:35:42Torneit's a play-pause button with a progress bar
13:35:49kugelpwhy should we explicitly limit the options what to display?
13:35:50Torneif you hit play when nothing's queued it creates a playlist automatically
13:35:54TorneWorks perfectly
13:35:57LloreanBut you could make the play/pause button a 1x1, the stop a 1x1, each skip a 1x1, and the user can then fit them on their screen how they like. :-P
13:35:57TorneI never launch the app ;)
13:36:22LloreanTorne: Mainly I use a Play/Pause button and a "rewind 30 seconds" button for audiobooks/podcasts.
13:36:23[Saint]kugelp: Because for some sizes of widget, all the options don't fit.
13:36:32[Saint]or don't fit properly.
13:37:04LloreanTorne: Audible offered me the "skip back 30" button and I found myself using it more than I expected.
13:37:32kugelpLlorean: don't we have "rewind bit" after unpause in by now?
13:37:47Lloreankugelp: I believe we do, but that's not what I use it for.
13:38:07LloreanIf I'm listening, and some noise distracts me, or I find my thought wandering, it's easy to skip back a short amount to re-listen.
13:38:22LloreanEspecially since you can't click-and-hold in a widget.
13:38:41LloreanRockbox already lets you skip back 30 seconds with "skip length" except that seems currently broken on the widget, so I still need to be in the WPS to do it.
13:38:55LloreanIt's also especially helpful since seeking in Rockbox on Android in very long tracks is hardly ideal at the moment. Not fine enough.
13:39:03kugelpyou can toggle playback quickly and don't mess with the skip length setting I guess
13:39:27Lloreankugelp: Pausing and unpausing 6 or more times rather than just pressing one button is kinda annoying.
13:39:57LloreanI don't want my rewind-on-unpause particularly long for the times I pause intentionally. I usually have it set to only about 2 seconds.
13:40:20kugelpspeaking of seeking, the ffwd/rew touchregions don't work properly in cabbie, did something change?
13:40:31LloreanBut it's 5 on Rockbox due to limitations
13:40:40[Saint]Llorean: seek isn't fine enough? Can't you adjust the minimum seek step to like 1 second or something?
13:41:13[Saint]how fine do you need it?
13:41:19Llorean[Saint]: Mine's set to 1s, but if the track is 5 hours long, 480 pixels being addressed with a finger doesn't give you nearly that fine of control
13:41:32[Saint]that's the themes fault.
13:41:37[Saint]not RaaAs
13:41:51[Saint]seeking with the playbar is just...silly
13:41:56[Saint]if you want a fine grain.
13:41:59LloreanTry other apps, they have a much better way to do it.
13:42:19LloreanPut your finger on the bar, then move it up/down away from the bar, and you get half/sized steps, move it further you get quarter/sized steps
13:42:27[Saint]I have, and for fine grained seeking...using a bar is just useless IMO
13:42:29LloreanSo you can get very fine seeking but with finger-style controls
13:42:39Llorean[Saint]: You haven't used the right ones then.
13:42:42*[Saint] shrugs
13:43:04LloreanI can seek to where I want in a good app much faster than I can with Rockbox's "press-and-hold-and-wait" seeking.
13:43:16kugelpthis style of progress bar OS unknown to me too
13:43:18[Saint]I know RaaA's seeking with the playbar is crap...but I'd never personally use it and expect to have a very fine grain personally.
13:43:19LloreanTap where you want on the bar, then move away from the bar and 'nudge' with your finger to narrow it down.
13:43:29Lloreankugelp: It's common on the iPhone, but it's also on a few android apps.
13:43:31[Saint]I use it for skipping large periods.
13:43:44[Saint]and I use actual ffwd/rew buttons for fine seeking.
13:43:52Lloreankugelp: I'd suggest trying Audible to see it, but I don't know about availability and you'd need content.
13:44:20kugelpit sounds nice indeed
13:44:45kugelp[Saint]: do you know more about the touchregion issue?
13:44:56*Llorean doesn't care too much about seeking though.
13:45:01[Saint]Oh? kinda similar to drilling down alphabetically in the contacts list?
13:45:11*Llorean just wants the buttons on the widget to work right, and no more crashes.
13:45:12[Saint]kugelp: Which issue is this?
13:45:25kugelpI wrote it a few lines up
13:46:10Llorean[Saint]: Imagine if moving your bar 40 pixels right on the progress bar moved you forward 4 minutes. If you moved your finger directly up/down from the bar and *then* 40 pixels over, it'd seek 2 minutes instead. Further away and you'd get 1 minute. Etc.
13:46:24LloreanBasically, you're "scaling" the amount seeked based on your distance from the bar.
13:46:46[Saint]kugelp: Ah, yep. Something changed. * now means "Hold, and repeat the action" and & means "hold, and do one action only"
13:46:54[Saint]pixelma got hit by that too.
13:47:01[Saint]Seems a lot of people missed the commit.
13:47:31kugelp[Saint]: well that sucks. why break themes this way?
13:47:42[Saint]because it was needed.
13:47:54kugelpand even without fixing default themes in SBM?
13:47:54[Saint]otherwise "mute" was impossible to use on a hold action.
13:48:01[Saint]it fired on/off at the repeat rate.
13:48:22kugelpswap * and &, then nothing breaks?
13:48:54[Saint]And I do apologise for not updating the touchscreen themes as yet.
13:49:09[Saint]the fact that no ones's noticed yet is a little telling how many people use them though ;)
13:49:22kugelpwe should swap them anyway
13:49:35[Saint]Oh, sure.
13:50:09[Saint]I was supposed to do that after the commit, but...earthquakes and various other stuff decided to alter my schedule
13:50:50kugelphow old is the change?
13:51:01[Saint]~2 weeks
13:51:48gevaertswodz|work: did someone already tell you about the devcon hotel situation?
13:52:09gevaertswodz|work: if you need a cheap solution, I'd recommend talking to kugelp or petur
13:52:18[Saint]It was needed because it's more sane to put mute on a hold action so it's not always accidentally being pressed, but when things like mute are on hold actions (before the change) they fired on/off at the repeat rate.
13:52:20wodz|workgevaerts: no
13:52:28[Saint]so muting/unmuting was a game of chance ;)
13:53:09wodz|workkugelp: any suggestions with hotel for devcon than?
13:53:26peturwodz|work: #rockbox-community
13:54:34wodz|workpetur: can I join -community with our web irc client?
13:54:46peturthink so, yes
13:55:04[Saint]Hmmm...that commit to touchregions is a lot older than I thought.
13:55:20[Saint]It's not in "last 4 weeks", damn. I dropped the ball there.
13:55:32[Saint]I just plain forgot about the "other" touch targets.
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14:26:16wodz|workI have target with single SD slot and internal NAND which operates in raw mode + FTL. What defines should I use? How this multivolume framework is working?
14:28:09pamaurythere are two different things iirc: multi drive and multi volume
14:28:32pamaurymulti drive is about having several drives as the names implies and multi volume is about having several partitions per drive
14:29:16wodz|worknice, and that means?
14:31:08pamaurythat you need to enable multi drive but not I'm not sure you need to enable multi volume. You also want multi storage because you have SD + NAND, the fact that there is a FTL is a driver details I think but you could ask TheSeven for example
14:32:02pamauryI don't exactly remember how you register the different drives so that that rockbox knows drive 0 i
14:32:09pamaurys NAND and 1 is SD for example
14:32:45pamauryiirc, each storage subsystem (NAND, SD) has an init function which says how many drive of this type it has
14:33:52wodz|workif I implement only NAND stubs for now, will file I/O calls fallback to the SD driver?
14:35:23pamaurydepends on how you implement stub. If you nand init function reports one drive, you stub will get the I/O (and fail) for NAND. The system will not fallback to SD for this drive
14:36:30pamauryperhaps you want an example of cod ?
14:37:02pamauryok, give me a few minutes
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14:45:39pamauryI'm nearly done
14:48:54pamauryI hope I didn't forget anything
14:51:51wodz|workok, now is there a special way to access data on this drives? I mean how to read something from SD with standard fopen/fread ?
14:51:53pamauryIn this precise example, drive 0 will be first SD drive (sd_first_drive = 0), and drive 1 will be first NAND drive (nand_first_drive=1), since the storage system inits sd before nand but you don't have to know this
14:52:29pamaurywodz|work: storage_read_sectors, storage_write_sectors
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14:52:44pamauryfor raw access
14:54:29pamauryfor files this is a little bit more tricky. There is a main drive which will be rooted at / and other drive are rooted at special locations like /<magic_name_%d>
14:54:42kugelwodz|work: there's a few ports with nand/sd, IIRC all of them pretty much only support the sd
14:54:46pamauryI don't remember the magic_name, it depends on whether you have MD or not
14:55:03 Part mem_
14:55:19pamauryI also don't remember how you specify which drive is the main one
14:56:15pamauryActually I might have be wrong, you might need multi-volume :)
14:56:36Torneiirc one implies the other
14:56:54pamauryI think MD implies MV
14:57:01Tornesounds right.
14:57:08Tornemultivolume is whether we mount more than one filesystem
14:57:14pamauryyes, just check config.h
14:57:20Tornemultidrive is whether there's more than one storage device driver instance
14:57:26pamauryIt's automatic so no worries
14:59:07pamaurywodz|work: assuming the nand is the main drive, the SD will be mounted at /<microSD0> I think (see firmware/include/dir.h)
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15:03:27pamauryActually, that's quite horrible because rockbox works on volume. The disk (disk.c) part has a mapping from volume to drives. And then the storage layer has a mapping from drive to subsystems.
15:05:25wodz|workso now the last question is how to assign what is main drive
15:05:31TheSevenpamaury: I don't have any MV/MD devices
15:08:00pamauryI don't have either.
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15:09:42pamauryThe code works as follow: upon opening of /PATH, strip_volume(/PATH) is called to get the volume number. The volume is a FAT volume but the disk system maps volumes to drive which maps to subsystems. So somewhere there must be some code define which one is the main drive :D
15:10:55pamauryLet me have a look at the D2 code, it has nand and sd and has special code because sd is the main drive
15:12:49pamaurygevaerts: do you know how this works ?
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15:15:48gevaertspamaury: picking drive 0?
15:16:19pamauryyes but you can't really choose since the storage.c code has a fixed initialization order
15:16:37pamaurythus drive 0 will be SD and 1 will be NAND if you don't do anything special
15:16:56gevaertsyes, that's how it works
15:16:57wodz|workso SD will be the main
15:17:27pamaurythe only way I see is to change storage.c if you are not happy with that
15:18:02Tornesurely the bit to fix is the assumption that drive 0 is the one to mount as the root :)
15:18:14Tornerather than caring about which drive is which number.
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15:19:15pamaurythat's right, I *think* it's easy to fix but there might be lots of places which assume it
15:23:10Tornewell presumably only strip_volume and whatever mounts the root
15:23:19Tornei say presumably
15:23:22Tornei mean hopefully
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17:43:53kugelUnhelpful: what does buflib_buffer_out() exactly do?
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17:55:02kugeldircache is pretty tricky
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18:21:21kugeldircache.c is *dirty*
18:23:26*pamaury loads his railgun and aims at kugel
18:24:29pamaurysome parts tricky, I can accept that :)
18:24:33pamaury*are tricky
18:25:14kugelmore than some :)
18:26:36pamaurythe cache building uses some obscure fat functions but the rest is quite simple
18:28:03kugelI'm only looking at the memory management
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18:28:58pamauryah, ok that part is dirty :)
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18:33:40pamauryactually the cache doesn't change too often so I don't think it's a big deal
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18:34:26kugelI'm analyzing buffer_alloc() users for my buflib project
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18:36:39pamauryone problem of this one is that you can't predict the size of it of course, and you don't want to allocate too much memory for the cache also
18:36:52kugelI don't think that's a problem
18:37:12kugelmost problematic is if references or parts of the buffer are exposed to other modules
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18:56:43saratogawoot has the clip+ cheap today if anyone still doesn't have one:
18:58:05bluebroth3rLlorean: for the "more album art logo" in the widget we could use the clef or "Rb" icon since those are square (reminds me, I haven't committed my move-all-logo-sources-into-a-folder patch)
18:58:52bluebroth3rand for the audio dropouts ... in my case playback was simply stopping as well. I can very well imagine that the playback buffer should be even bigger. I can make you an apk with a bigger buffer if you want to give it a try
19:00:19bluebroth3rJdGordon: any concerns about headphone detection aka FS #12097? I wouldn't mind committing it even with the delay issue, that can get fixed later
19:00:27kugelgevaerts: I just analyzed dircache.c, it seems convertible with modifications to buflib (some sort of buflib_get_everything()). compaction will be a bit more tricky but should be doable in a safe way
19:00:58kugelI also hacked on buflib a bit; named allocation and a print_allocations() for debugging purposes
19:01:14gevaertsSounds like a good start
19:01:23*bluebroth3r goes trying to remove the headphone debouncing
19:02:15kugelgevaerts: I think I generally understood it; except for buflib_buffer_in() and _out() but I'll try to ping Unhelpful about it
19:02:34pamaurykugel: are you sure compaction is a good idea for dircache ? It's basically a bunch of pointers all over the place
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19:03:01kugelit should be manageable
19:04:28pamauryI mean, the cache is usually allocated at once, and it doesn't get really fragmented. Furthermore on each major FS action, it's rebuilt
19:04:48[Saint]He didn't ask if it was managaeable ;)
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19:04:55[Saint]He asked if it was a good idea.
19:05:05bluebroth3r[Saint]: what phone and Android version do you have?
19:05:10kugelpamaury: I'm not asking to compact the dircache :)
19:05:34[Saint]GT-i5503T (Baby Galaxy S) and 2.1.1
19:05:39[Saint]bluebroth3r: ^
19:05:53kugelbut it should work in an environment where the dircache buffer is moved due to compaction of the main memory
19:06:52kugelpamaury: it's only rebuild on boot and usb-unplug, no?
19:07:05pamauryall disk mount/unmount too
19:07:21kugelwhat I said :)
19:07:32pamauryon compaction, basically half of the content will change since it will invalidate all pointers, except if you do it in a relative address mode
19:07:43pamauryyou can unplug sd card
19:07:52kugelah right
19:08:53kugelpamaury: I can walk the entire dircache to fix up pointers, and a relative address mode is already used
19:08:58pamauryOk, so actually by explicitely using offsets instead of pointers, dircache can be made rather transparent to compaction
19:08:58[Saint]bluebroth3r: Howcome?
19:09:53kugelI can also make buflib call a user-supplied compaction function (it now does a simple memmove, but for dircache something with knowledge about the allocation might be better)
19:10:33kugelpamaury: that too, I just need to be careful about dircache_get_entry_ptr()
19:10:47bluebroth3r[Saint]: just wondering what devices are affected by this audio stops issue
19:11:32pamaurykugel: there are places other that dircache.c which use dircache pointers I think
19:11:40bluebroth3rhmm, posting SYS_PHONE_UNPLUGGED directly in button_tick doesn't fix the lag issue. It's much shorter now but still audible
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19:13:20bluebroth3ror I'm doing something wrong
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19:14:52kugelpamaury: like I said, every dircache_get_entry_ptr() caller needs special care, but the rest should work
19:18:35pamauryin fact there in only one dircache_get_entry_ptr() call in the firmware/ part and it's easily handled. However play_list.c stores explicit pointers so it needs care. And there tagcache which uses it too :(
19:19:05CIA-87New commit by bluebrother (r29825): support adding a build id. ...
19:20:31kugelpamaury: in playlist.c it's done in a thread which seems to be just there to handle the case of the pointers getting invalid :)
19:22:39CIA-87r29825 build result: All green
19:24:08pamauryI don't know, playlist.c is rather huge so beware :)
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19:25:13kugelgreat, it stores the pointer in a buffer_alloc'd buffer, that's my thing :p
19:26:58pamaurykugel: if you plan to change things in dircache.c, tell me because there might be an opportunity to reduce the memory footprint of dircache
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19:28:06kugelpamaury: firstly I'll only drop-in replace buffer_alloc() with buflib_alloc(), compaction is a later step
19:28:20kugeland also resolve the nasty audiobuf[] access
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19:38:43kugelI wonder if it's possible to have an git mirror at github?
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19:47:47B4gderkugel: I'd guess it should be possible
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20:09:29kugelB4gder: it would be nice because, because github has nice collaboration features, including an overview over the forks and a acceptable web interface
20:09:51*B4gder has a bunch of projects on github...
20:10:32B4gderalthough, github does "attract" a slightly different work flow that doesn't always work fine with group efforts such as Rockbox
20:10:53B4gderlike the pull requests
20:11:13kugelwe won't have pull requests I guess if it's just a mirrow
20:11:31B4gderyou can't turn them off though so they will come...
20:11:58kugelI'd just like to quickly see what other rockbox'ers (who use git) are working on
20:12:46B4gderI'm a git and github fan so you have my sympathy
20:12:54kugelgreat :)
20:13:14kugelwho's going to do the script work? :p
20:13:41kugel(/me thinks a github mirror is at the very least way better than the current one)
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20:34:06pixelmato add to the earlier discussion... I prefer the "unusable on 240x320 (my) screen" small square version of the widget with all buttons but no album art. I couldn't have told which number x number that actually refers to as I'm not informed or asked about it while creating the widget
20:34:23bluebroth3rB4gder: in case of a git mirror, can we use realname in the commits?
20:35:04bluebroth3r(i.e. use −−authors-file with git-svn)
20:35:24pixelmaand I agree with kugel that the touch region commit is the wrong way around - &action should have stayed what it is and the added version that triggers only once should have gotten the *action
20:38:47Lloreanbluebroth3r: I'd love to try one with an even larger buffer (and headphone unplug with debouncing removed if you managed that) :)
20:39:52 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:40:23bluebroth3rLlorean: well, removing debouncing for headphone unplug didn't work for me.
20:41:53bluebroth3rmaybe I changed the wrong code, haven't figured yet :)
20:42:48LloreanWell I'll happily try just the larger buffer too.
20:43:03bluebroth3rbuilding right now.
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20:47:46bluebroth3rLlorean: new apk uploaded. Includes headphone detection, updated buffer (I used 16* minimum size) and resources on SD.
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20:48:15LloreanCould you re-send me the link?
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20:50:28SJBhi, i got a porblem with rock box on sandisk e200
20:50:40SJBdoesnt shutdown
20:50:44bluebroth3ryou're welcome :)
20:50:45SJBcant do anything
20:50:57LloreanSJB: Hold the power button for 30 seconds.
20:50:59SJB"Shutting down.."
20:51:35SJBworks D
20:51:48SJBand the clock bug is fixed after "reboot"
20:52:02Lloreanbluebroth3r: I'll let you know if it freezes again. What's the FS number for the increased buffer (if there is one)?
20:52:04SJBclock was showing random numbers
20:52:28SJB1-2times per soecond it switched the time
20:52:28pixelmait would be way nicer and read better if you could try putting more of your thoughts one one line, not using enter as punctuation ;)
20:53:33bluebroth3rLlorean: FS
20:53:41*bluebroth3r curses keyboard
20:53:42AlexPFFS? :)
20:53:45bluebroth3rLlorean: FS #12064
20:53:57bluebroth3rgerman keyboard has # next to enter ...
20:54:11AlexPmine too (UK)
20:55:42Lloreanbluebroth3r: Is there an expected downside of the larger buffer?
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20:56:57bluebroth3rLlorean: none that I'm aware of. It uses more memory of course :)
20:57:28bluebroth3rbut given the amount of memory those devices have I don't see a problem here.
20:57:35Lloreanbluebroth3r: I'm not too worried about that personally. I'm still using less than half of my phone's RAM.
20:58:20AlexPWhat does Rockbox do in regards to that on phones?
20:58:26AlexPAllocate a fixed amount?
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20:58:52bluebroth3rLlorean: I haven't checked if the buffer size has effects on the responsiveness of playback.
20:59:15LloreanIt doesn't *seem* to
20:59:18LloreanAt least it pauses instantly
20:59:28kugelpI'd expect higher latency
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21:00:35bluebroth3rthere's a noticable lag when skipping with the 16* buffer on my phone
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21:01:55bluebroth3rbut _if_ this fixes the audio stops issue for you we at least have another success report :)
21:02:10bluebroth3r(which is the reason I've used such a high value
21:02:29Lloreanbluebroth3r: It already got stuck unpausing and pausing a couple times with headphone unplugging. But I'll see if it gets stuck with normal listening.
21:02:34gartralis there a problem in the recent nightlies that prevents the microSD card from mounting over usb on the Sansa e200?
21:02:44gartralknown problem*
21:02:45kugelp48k is still just ~.25s Aug audio so probably not a problem
21:02:47Lloreanbluebroth3r: I'd guess it's not a buffer issue then.
21:04:21bluebroth3rkugelp: I've used 16*getMinBufferSize(). The latter is 12ki on my phone, so it ends up with 192k. That's a noticable amound of lag :)
21:04:50LloreanOn a related note, when I pause, and it resumes, it plays a little bit of audio *then* it skips back the 5 seconds it's supposed to.
21:04:53LloreanIt's a little bit odd.
21:05:01LloreanResumes on headphone replug, that is.
21:06:01bluebroth3rLlorean: I guess that is caused by the big buffer (and I assume there is nothing done about that buffer on pause-rewind)
21:06:19LloreanYeah, that was my guess.
21:06:20bluebroth3rwhich might also be the thing when skipping with such a big buffer.
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21:06:38LloreanIs this build from before or after the playback rework?
21:07:03bluebroth3rafter. I.e. it's current svn.
21:07:21LloreanIsn't there a problem like this happening since the playback rework too? I remember some mention of it on the Clip?
21:07:41bluebroth3rdon't know, haven't paid much attention to that
21:07:57Buschelplayback hangs up reproducibly
21:08:06LloreanBuschel: Under what conditions?
21:08:41pixelmareally? I couldn't reproduce hangs with the new engine yet
21:08:44bluebroth3rhmm, with the 4* buffer I need for stable playback on my phone there is also a hearable lag on jumping in the track
21:08:45Buschelfor me: play a playlist (all tracks) for ~1h -> hangs up
21:09:08Buschelsee FS #12093, learman reports the same
21:09:12bluebroth3rso maybe we need some Android buffer invalidation in that cases
21:09:36LloreanBuschel: For me it seems to be after 4 hours, but this is 48kbps or 32kbps audio
21:09:40LloreanSo it may be a similar amount of buffer use...
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21:09:50pixelmamostly using my M5 currently for listening longer times (and a mix of flac and mp3)
21:10:04LloreanBuschel: I haven't looked at the exact time, rather, but I know it seems to happen after I've been listening 'quite a while'
21:10:46Buschelfrom what I see so far (and what jhMike suggests) it might be connected to rebuffering... let's see, I am confident he will find the cause
21:11:09Llorean bluebroth3r: Maybe we shouldn't worry about the problem I'm having until the playback engine issue is nailed down. :)
21:12:07kugelpbluebroth3r: perhaps a combination of larger buffer and refilling earlier works best
21:12:14pixelmamaybe it has to do with ARM then too as rebuffering happens quite often with flac on a 16MB RAM target and I haven't experienced this yet
21:13:11bluebroth3rLlorean: thinking about it, that lag on headphone pause might also be related to that buffer thing
21:19:03kugelponce it's in the buffer it can't be stopped
21:19:30LloreanWhy does pause/unpause seem so responsive then?
21:19:48LloreanIf we've got that buffer that will get consumed either way.
21:20:00LloreanI'm not trying to contradict you, rather just wondering what's going on in general. How it works.
21:20:40pixelmais the Clip+ one of the players we don't do an automatic reboot into OF (I tend to mix up the newer AMS Sansas)
21:21:07CIA-87New commit by bluebrother (r29826): Fix whitespace errors aka tabs.
21:22:05Lloreanpixelma: I believe so, yes.
21:24:45CIA-87r29826 build result: All green
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22:07:27B4gderbluebroth3r: we're still not talking about a two-way mirror though so no commits from git would get back to svn
22:08:13bluebroth3rB4gder: I wasn't expecting that :)
22:08:36bluebroth3rbut even for a one way svn -> git mirror it would be nice to see real names in the git log
22:09:17B4gderwell, anyone can just try it out and see what's working
22:09:20bluebroth3rand that can also clean up with the different casing used issue in svn
22:10:01bluebroth3rthe name translation thingy or mirroring at github?
22:10:12sideralLlorean: I've observed similar skip-back behavior with the rewind-on-pause patch (FS #11931). jhMikeS advised that the new playback engine requires a call to audio_pre_ff_rewind prior to any skipping to plush the pcm buffer (SWCODEC only), and that took care of my problem. Maybe this call missing in the path you're exercising?
22:10:53bluebroth3rflushing the pcm buffer seems like something Android could use too
22:11:17*bluebroth3r would try mirroring at github but doesn't have a machine running permanently to do that.
22:11:42B4gderwell, to test out you could just do single-shot runs every now and then
22:11:55B4gderand once things work we can put the magic on the svn server
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22:45:33B4gderick, there it is!
22:45:48B4gderLlorean: well, it would be easy to provide such output at least
22:45:57bluebroth3rLlorean: the problem is that the svn repository holds commits that don't belong to Rockbox itself (i.e. www) so the number would be off
22:46:05B4gderwe could do a "commit-count + hash"
22:46:09Lloreanbluebroth3r: It's already off, isn't it?
22:46:21LloreanSo I don't see a problem with that.
22:46:46B4gderif we just make our own describe command, we can get the "rev number" similar to the svn revision, and then we add the hash for git convenience
22:46:50bluebroth3rmy local repository is at start-28408-g7d6ac7c but svn is at Revision: 29826
22:46:55LloreanB4gder: I mean, to me, the only important thing is that there's some sort of constant sequential identifier. Since the tag can change arbitrarily and may not include identifiers that place it in time, a total commit count + hash would probably be better.
22:47:47Lloreanbluebroth3r: Well, we'd know that all new identifiers come from after the changeover thanks to the inclusion of the hash anyway, so if they don't match / follow it's not too big a deal as long as they work from git-advent forward.
22:47:50B4gder"git log −−oneline | wc -l" gives the number, then we do git log −−oneline -1 | cut "-d " -f1 to get the hash to append to it
22:48:04B4gderand voila, very svn-like
22:48:08gartralB4gder: how long was the site down?
22:48:16B4gder~30 minutes
22:49:16 Join stripwax [0] (
22:50:01lovasoaMaybe I didn't install rockbox correctly... Or is it "normal" that utf8 filenames don't show up correctly?
22:50:43stripwaxis your codepage set to utf8?
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22:51:47sideralHey AlexP, have you had a chance to try out FS #12073 (incrementally add files to DB) yet?
22:54:05stripwaxlovasoa - my question was directed to you (in case it wasn't clear!)
22:55:15 Quit lovasoa (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:56:46stripwaxoh well
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23:00:52AlexPsideral: Sorry, completely slipped my mind
23:01:04AlexPI'm away this weekend, but will try ASAP
23:01:04 Quit lovasoa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:01:56sideralAlexP: I'd like to cash in on your Promise :)
23:02:20stripwaxlovasoa - is this link relevant (from a quick google) -;wap2
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23:02:38stripwaxlovasoa - specifically the bit that says " VFAT uses UCS-2 to encode the filenames, you can't simply use utf8 "
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23:04:22sideralAlexP: Not the one you made 3 minutes ago, the other one −− The Promise
23:07:21AlexPI don't have some sort of weird ring if that is what you mean :)
23:07:35AlexPThat boat has long since sailed
23:08:02sideralAlexP: "2011-01-22 (00:37:57) AlexP: sideral: btw, did you ever get the chance to look if tracks can be added to the db as and when? I'll love you long time if that is possible :)"
23:08:21AlexPoh right, that :)
23:08:59sideralso, hurry up! ;)
23:10:38AlexPhehe :)
23:14:14sideralgit heads, this may have scrolled by a little quickly in the heated discussion:
23:14:14sideralI'd like to commit FS #11880 (Include git commit ID in version string, as in "r29820+4406ff0-110505"). It concerns only us git users, no one else will notice and care. And it's in line with Torne's similar change for bzr. Any concerns?
23:14:35Tornesideral: how many characters are you going to include?
23:14:47Tornethe number git decides is unique, or a fixed number?
23:15:11sideralright now is "+", 7 digits, plus an "M" if the checkout was modified
23:15:40Torneseems reasonable
23:15:56Tornei suggest you do it
23:16:54pamauryTorne: you changed something to have the bzr version ?
23:17:01Torneyes, years ago :)
23:17:12sideralgit uses 40-digit hex hashes, but 7 digits will be sufficiently unique, especially as long as the latest svn revision is included as well. It could even be much shorter than 7 digits
23:17:18pamauryah ok, I thought it was recent :)
23:17:19Torneif you use bzr-svn to work on rockbox and compile somethign that's not a svn version you get r12345+bzr5342-date
23:17:22Torneor whatever
23:17:35Torneso that my revision numbers are meaningful :)
23:18:32sideralI chose 7 digits to have my version strings at the same length as Torne's ;)
23:18:42Tornesideral: actually mine are typically 8
23:18:56Torneso the git ones would be shorter
23:19:24AlexPmine go to 11
23:19:25Tornethe bzr revnos are similar in magnitude to the svn ones
23:19:34Torne(but different because my bzr repo only hast runk)
23:19:39Torneso they're 5 digits, plus "bzr"
23:20:38 Join ibhan [0] (~ibhan@
23:20:55sideralI see. Anyway, I find it indispensable to have the git commit id included in my test builds. Before I did this, I often lost track of what I actually tested
23:22:25B4gderwe should have a test suite...
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23:22:39Tornesideral: yes, it's a very good thing, just commit it :)
23:23:05AlexPSome sort of automated testing would be luverly
23:23:38B4gderI would also agree that it would be more useful than switching version control
23:24:39AlexPWhat sort of testing is envisaged?
23:24:42bluebrotherwith the help of the sim we could test quite a lot of code
23:25:02sideralI'd like to know if any of the git users would be concerned with the git commit ID in the version string
23:25:03TorneThere's two slightly seperate things we could do that come under the banner of "testing" here
23:25:08bertrikI'm not really motivated to work on a test suite, to be honest
23:25:20AlexPsideral: doesn't bother me
23:25:22Tornewe could start having actual tests that check rockbox works, which someone would have to write
23:25:34Torneand seperately we could have a way to queue patches to be built by the build system
23:25:41Tornewith/without that also implying some actual testing
23:25:55AlexPIn related stuff, I'd like to have a test questionnaire for users for RCs
23:25:57Torneboth would be useful, and the effort required to implement the two are unrelated
23:26:07TorneAlexP: that would definately be good
23:26:12bluebrotherAlexP: wasn't that proposed on the ML some time ago?
23:26:18Torneyes, but nobody wrote it yet :)
23:26:22AlexPbluebrother: It has come up a couple of times
23:26:30bluebrothersomething to work on during devcon ;-)
23:26:39AlexPI'll volunteer to have a bash at the questions
23:26:44bluebrotherhmm, we need to extend devcon to 2 months to get all things done ;-)
23:27:03AlexPBut it'd be nice to have a webpage for them to input it in
23:27:28AlexPTorne: How would a patch builduing system work?
23:27:44bluebrotherwell, that would basically one of those web based surveys
23:27:50AlexPbluebrother: yeah
23:27:59TorneAlexP: modify our current build system such that the master can tell teh slaves a diff as well as a revision number
23:27:59bluebrotherand there should be something around that we could use, shouldn't it?
23:28:08TorneAlexP: and then seperate the results out somewhere different.
23:28:21TorneAlexP: this also works very well tying into a patch review system :)
23:28:25AlexPTorne: So devs could request test builds essentually?
23:28:28TorneAlexP: yes.
23:28:35AlexPsounds a good plan
23:28:39TorneAlexP: and if you also have a patch review system you can have the test build results appear on the patch review
23:29:05pamaurywhat would tests look like ? I mean, a huge of our code is hard to test
23:29:07AlexPbluebrother: I'll wang it on the devcon agenda
23:29:18Torneactual tests are orthogonal as i said :)
23:29:27Tornejust having a test build system that purely built things would have value
23:29:35Torneone that also did some testing woul dbe better, of course
23:29:55B4gderpamaury: we would start with testing the functions that are easy to test...
23:30:19pamauryif there are easy to test, they will never break
23:30:27B4gderthat's not true
23:30:38Tornethe easiest way to do full UI tests, though maybe not the best, would be to automate the sim with a regular UI testing framework
23:30:39B4gdertests also give people courage to rewrite and do larger changes
23:30:43bluebrotherAlexP: something like that maybe?
23:30:56Tornewe could do that without modifying our code at all
23:31:28Tornethe sim is just an app with normal input and output, there already exist UI test systems that can test that kind of stuff with varying degrees of cleverness :)
23:32:00Tornedoing anything intricate there would be tricky, probably, but you can test that, say, initialising the database with a particular set of files didnt' crash.
23:32:26AlexPpamaury: Things may be easy to test, but it is impossible for a dev to test all tarrgets/combinations of features
23:32:38AlexPAnd with an ever growing number of targets...
23:33:04AlexPbluebrother: Yeah, something like that
23:33:22bluebrotherAlexP: hehe, that "web questionnaire" is also topic in the thread linked in the "Testing" entry above :)
23:33:23pamauryI agree it's impossible and requesting a build on all targets is sensible. But beyong that, you need the real hardware
23:34:11bluebrotherpamaury: you can test almost all UI code without any hardware. We just need a stub target for that which implements all features
23:34:39bluebrother"implement" as in "provides the functions, not the functionality"
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23:35:51pamauryOk, let me rephrase: what would these tests catch and would it be valuable ? That's a real question
23:36:15B4gderpamaury: you never worked in a project with tests?
23:36:46B4gderthey are good at making sure things work as they are supposed to, when things are modified
23:37:06B4gderif done right, they can work fine for debugging problems
23:37:32B4gderlike imagine a test set mounting a FAT image running our target fs code
23:37:44pamauryI understand why tests are useful, but lots of our actual bugs/problems come from intricate hardware/software interaction
23:37:55B4gderI have no doubts we'd be able to find and fix several bugs that way
23:38:26B4gderpamaury: yes, and hw-related problems will still be there and will not be caught by tests that aren't on target
23:38:54TheSeventhat's where a second on-target driver test suite might come into play
23:39:24bertrikwriting tests will usually also make you aware of flaws in the specifications/intended features :)
23:39:57bluebrotherand it can prove if someone claims a functionality to work a specific way if it does (or not)
23:40:24TheSeventhat kind of on-hw tests would not only help doing regression testing, but also ease porting to new targets, as bugs can be caught at a way lower level
23:41:01TheSevene.g. I wouldn't have spent several days tracking down why codec performance was terrible on the ipod classic before I realized that there was actually a bug in the PCM driver
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23:41:58pamauryunfortunately there will always be cases like this one :-/
23:42:18bluebrothersure, but minimizing the number of those cases is a good thing
23:42:18TheSevenyeah, but that particular one could have been caught really easily
23:42:25bluebrotherand it's doable :)
23:42:49TheSeventhe question is whether it's worth the effort, but I'm fairly sure it is...
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23:43:51bluebrotherI'm pretty sure it's worth it.
23:44:23bluebrothermy personal feeling is that Rockbox has become less stable and more buggy in the last years.
23:44:52bluebrotherand since it's kinda feature complete (what features are really missing?) improving quality should really become a goal
23:45:05bluebrother(as in: become even more a goal than it is these days)
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