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#rockbox log for 2011-05-07

00:03:52sideralOK, I've successfully split FS #11931 up into a bug-fixing and a feature patch. Would you think the changes need further discussion (on the mailing list), or are they trivial enough to commit now?
00:04:49pamaurywow, the usb code seems to actually work :-o
00:05:29sideralpamaury: I'm curious whether this fixes my USB failures
00:06:01pamauryit needs more testing, I've only checked control transfers for now
00:09:16saratogawhat do people think about writing the resume info on critical battery shutdown on flash devices?
00:10:03pamauryhum, usb serial doesn't work, I need to work this out tomorrow
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00:11:19sideralsaratoga: good idea. but wouldn't you think "critical" would also allow one last write even on a hard drive?
00:11:49saratogasideral: usually the disk wouldn't be spun up, so trying to spin it up would kill hte battery
00:12:04saratogatheres a pretty big dip in battery voltage when you spin up a disk
00:12:09saratoganot really an issue on flash though
00:12:40saratogaalthough i don't want to enable something that could risk corrupting the FTL or something
00:12:57sideraldepends on how you define "critical". It could be dying hardware modulo one final disk access
00:13:04pamauryI was about to say the same
00:16:44sideralNo one senior enough around to give advice on whether FS #11931 can be committed without going to the mailing list? Oh well
00:18:00pamauryperhaps wait until tomorrow, it's quite late right now
00:19:11sideralOK. Although I only ever seem to have time when it's either late or early :)
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00:28:20ChrononHey folks. I was hoping someone could take a look at and let me know what needs to be done to get it committed.
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00:32:49sideralChronon: You need to find a developer with an interest in the Game of Life plugin. Perhaps whoever write / committed it in the first place?
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00:36:19ChrononWell, it's been hacked into its current state by several people.
00:36:36ChrononI'll see who has been involved in the several commits related to it. Thanks
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00:52:14ChrononDoes anybody know if the Clip+ automatically reboots into the OF when USB is inserted? The manual says it does but pixelma expressed some doubts about this.
00:52:51ChrononI'm happy to write a patch if the manual needs changing.
00:54:35alexbobpChronon: it does not
00:54:42saratogaChronon: you don't have SVN access?
00:54:48alexbobpbut if you turn it off, it will boot the OF if you plug it in
00:54:57Chrononsaratoga: I don't have commit access.
00:55:15 Quit ender` (Quit: When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. -- Robert Pirsig)
00:55:51saratogahow odd
00:56:43ChrononAt least I am not aware about gaining commit access.
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01:19:14alexb_1hi all, I want to see track info (length, time) on wps. I just upgraded sansa c250 to 3.8.1 and I can't make the way it was in old version. what theme /settings do I need to change? thanks.
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03:03:26ChrononSince I don't have commit access for SVN I posted a patch for the manual here:
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04:04:18mmmfuzecould anyone possibly apply a patch to the latest build of rb for the fuze v2 for me? I tried to understand cygwin and all, but im confused
04:06:14saratogadon't use cygwin
04:06:57saratogai strongly recommend using a VM instead
04:07:24mmmfuzealright, thanks
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05:06:20gartralon my e250 temporary idle poweroff settings in some apps is ignored if the device is charging, first noticed with the clock app (hold center when plugging in) can someone please confirm before i submit a bur report?
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05:53:53saratogagartral: thats not a bug
05:54:15gartralsaratoga: how so?
05:54:18saratogait intended so you can charge the player, see the manual
05:54:34saratogaunless you mean it turned off ?
05:54:52saratogaactually reading your question its possible i don't understand what your observed
05:57:37gartralsaratoga: i think you misunderstand.. my backlight keeps turning off.. even though the backlight setting in is set too always on. this only happens when the device is plugged in.. when unplugged the temporary setting works as it (in my mind) should
05:58:10saratogaah, idle poweroff refers to something else
05:58:26gartrali had said idle poweroff by mistake, i meant backlight
05:58:44saratogaso the clock plugin ignores its own setting if its running off AC power?
05:59:29gartral(i guess that AC != USB+Center button?)
06:01:09saratogasame thing
06:01:23saratogatechnically USB charge mode is just using the PC as an AC adapter
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06:03:59saratogabut anyway, yes I would file a bug report for that
06:04:04saratogaits likely no one has noticed
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06:36:46gartralcrap, i can't remember my username! and the tracker doesn't have a "forgot username, enter email" oprion
06:39:02gartralsaratoga: who handles the admin stuff for the website?
06:39:35saratogabunch of swedes who are asleep, check back during the day
06:40:08gartralin the meantime, feel like testing the and confirming my findings?
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09:04:04S_a_i_n_tn1s: (logs) - Your patch on FS #12098 does indeed fix the issue on my targets, I was curious as it's probably not something that pops up very often as the fail case revolves around some very specific circumstances (rolo'ing a new build and disconnecting at the exact time a battery level will be voiced).
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10:07:19n1sS_a_i_n_t: cool, thanks for testing
10:08:52CIA-87New commit by nls (r29828): Fix FS #12098 by ignoring battery update events in the yesno screen.
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10:12:34CIA-87r29828 build result: All green
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10:13:41[Saint]No worries, I like testing interesting fail cases. ;)
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10:14:10*bertrik wonders about i2c drivers
10:14:44[Saint]Proof that it's incredibly hard to provide for each scenario during initial development, and that it can sometimes take years for a bug to show.
10:14:51bertrikit looks like we're driving SDA hard, while it should be driven as open-drain, in this particular driver I'm looking at
10:15:43n1s[Saint]: yeah
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10:27:42bluebrotherhmm. Does the logo have an explicit license attached?
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10:31:26Lloreanbluebrother: It's on our wiki, so does that make it Gnu FDL?
10:33:05bluebrotherLlorean: not sure. Since it's part of Rockbox I'd say it's at least some GNU license. Might be nice to have that stated explicitly somewhere, just in case.
10:34:48LloreanYes, definitely would be nice to have an explicit license.
10:37:07bluebrotherI'd like to move all svg logo sources to docs/logo. Any concerns left about this?
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10:43:45JoshuaChangdoes the arrays, variables in the dsp.c allways occupy the memory/sram?
10:45:00n1sJoshuaChang: the global ones do, the others are on stack or dynamically allocated
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10:46:31JoshuaChangglobal ones?
10:46:33JoshuaChangfor example, does the crossfeed's delayline array always occupy the memory?
10:49:01n1syes, it's allocated statically and is a global var
10:49:13n1sthe crossfeed_data struct
10:49:31n1ssee line 205
10:52:49JoshuaChangyes, i've found it, does it mean, if the struct in the dsp.c is instanced, it'll always occupy the memory?
10:54:00n1syes, iff it's statically allocated
10:54:11n1sthis is nothing special for dsp
10:54:33stripwax(it would be tricky to allocate dsp data structures on the stack)
10:55:33JoshuaChangwell, i think i should put all my delayline in system memory, for cowon d2's sram is too small to be used
10:56:11stripwaxmemory allocation can be target dependent (e.g. "put it in iram on this device but dram on that device") etc
10:57:13JoshuaChang#ifdef ?
10:59:51bertrikranmachan, do you remember which i2c controller is used in the AMS players?
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11:00:32JoshuaChangis there exist device have 200k+ iram? gigabeat s?
11:00:58n1sthe beast doesn't use iram at all
11:01:08n1sit has only 4k IIRC
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11:02:00JoshuaChangwell, it's so fast that doesn't depend on iram at all
11:02:06stripwaxi think the highest I've seen is 192k
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11:02:26stripwaxof course that's "192k total" not "192k spare"..
11:03:15JoshuaChangin cowon d2, if i put my plugin's variables, points in the system memory, it slowdown about 12%
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11:04:10JoshuaChangmy plugins's delayline eats about 130k memory
11:04:24n1sdifferent SoC's have very different memory performance, the recent arms seem to be quite fast with regular dram
11:05:32n1syou are not going to find many targets with 130k iram for plugins, also keep in mind that if you want to run your plugin at the same time as a codec you cannot use iram
11:07:48JoshuaChangyes, i divide my plugin's variable into 2 parts, the huge delayline in system memory, while the small variables, points in iram
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11:32:28stripwaxwhat does the plugin do?
11:35:00ranmachanbertrik: IIRC something we didn't have a datasheet for
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11:36:19bertrikranmachan, but it looks like you added a lot of defines to the driver, so I guessed you got it from somewhere rather than reverse engineering
11:37:37ranmachanbertrik: The linux patch just calls it the "AS352X AFE I2C driver"
11:38:09bertrikah, ok. Maybe I'll add a comment to the source of the information.
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15:49:33kugelandroid 1.5/1.6 is now next to irrelevant, I'm going to bump the minimum version to 2.1
15:49:34gartrali found a screenless e250 today!
15:51:12bluebrotherkugel: what's the benefit of increasing the minimum version?
15:51:52kugeldropping compatibility code
15:51:55gartralbluebrother: ease of mantinence.. and a smaller apk
15:52:10bluebrothersupporting older version increases the size of the apk?
15:52:18kugelit increases code size
15:52:38gartralit increases both code size and apk size
15:53:01gevaertsBy how much?
15:53:08gartralthough, the apk comes out bytes/kilobytes smaller
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15:53:23kugelmeh, I actually want api level 8, which is 2.2 but that's too early
15:53:49gevaertsgartral: so why did you bring this up?
15:53:51kugelso, I'll post-pone that
15:54:03bluebrothergiven that we have ~3.5MiB on my player I think that's not much of concern
15:54:16gartralat least with MOST things, no clue.. it all depends how many legacy functions the rockbox code really uses
15:54:31JoshuaChangcan rockbox use asm optimize in android-app mode?
15:54:52JoshuaChangi mean, the existing asm code
15:55:02gartralJoshuaChang: not sure.. i dont think so..
15:55:07gevaertskugel: I'm not that sure that 1.5/1.6 is irrelevant these days. Some cheap android tablets still use those I think
15:55:12gevaertsJoshuaChang: sure
15:55:19*gartral is wrong
15:55:24gevaertsas usual...
15:55:35kugelgevaerts: both together have like 5% share
15:55:35gartralgevaerts: i'm not always wrong!
15:55:51kugelgoogle regularly puts statistics up
15:55:52JoshuaChangcan or can not?
15:55:59gevaertsJoshuaChang: you can
15:56:22gevaertskugel: statistics of what exactly? Google Market?
15:56:47gevaertsThat ignores the entire non-google-branded world then
15:56:57JoshuaChangi don't know why, but some c based function runs out of my expected while the asm code is ok
15:56:58bluebrotherstill, why cut out 5% of potential users? If we have a technical benefit that's big enough, ok.
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15:59:06Luca_Soh god, i have dreams about jewels on my 22" monitor driven by rockbox on a fuze :D
15:59:30kugelbluebrother: writing this compatibility code causes headache because you need to find new methods via reflection
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16:04:00*[Saint] *really* doesn't like the idea of bumping the API version on RaaA on principle
16:04:15[Saint]while we're at it...lets drop charcell support...that's old too.
16:04:30[Saint]if we can support older devices...why the fuck not?
16:04:56[Saint]err "bliimin' heck" rather.
16:06:00[Saint]if it's not *essential*, and it's just "it's annoying, it gives me a headache"...then, I have a really hard time supporting the descision.
16:06:21[Saint]...step aside and let someone that doesn't get a headache write it then.
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16:15:27kugel[Saint]: people stop working on stuff that causes headache
16:16:07[Saint]I'm sure if it came to that, it's your descision, and someone will take your place.
16:16:12[Saint]You're not obligated.
16:16:43kugelthe more complicated it is to support legacy devices, the less work will be done. it just frightens off contributors
16:16:57[Saint]taking away support for devices because "I can't be bothered" is a very poor choice.
16:17:10[Saint]someone most likely *can* be bothered if it's not going to be you.
16:17:42kugelthat's not a given
16:17:56gevaertskugel: how integrated is all of this? I mean, does keeping 1.5/1.6 hold back new stuff? Can 1.5/1.6 maybe be separated out entirely (possibly up to the point that it's a separate target)?
16:18:02[Saint]So be it, but I still see bumping the API as a poor choice.
16:18:34[Saint]there's apparently no technical reason to do so apart from "a few bytes to kilobytes".
16:18:49[Saint], yeah, I see it as a poor idea from a snap descision.
16:18:57kugel[Saint]: I got it
16:19:03[Saint]if you have too little time, don't spread yourself so thin.
16:19:14gevaerts[Saint]: you're not helping here
16:20:25bluebrotherare there much people bothering about the Android at all?
16:20:26kugel[Saint]: you're underestimating the scaring off new contributors aspect
16:20:58*bluebrother would prefer seeing the existing bugs on Android getting fixed first
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16:22:10[Saint]bluebrother: by my understanding it's limited to the handful of us that roll our own .apks, and <X> amount of people that grab the premade builds of old off the forums.
16:22:22[Saint]perhaps kugel has dl stats, I don't know.
16:23:14bluebrother[Saint]: well, I was thinking developer-wise. With the current bugs you can't expect users to like Rockbox on Android at all.
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16:29:43kugelgevaerts: the compatibility code is under Helper/, so a bit of Makefile magic for conditional compilation should work
16:29:59kugelbut anyway, I won't change anything since I'm actually after api level 8
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16:32:05gevaertsI'd say we should try to find a way to both allow people to concentrate on new stuff without too much annoyances and allow other people to maintain the old stuff
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16:46:45kugellooks like I can't fix that bug while keeping 2.1 compatibility
16:48:15[Saint]"that bug"?
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16:51:33kugelplayback controls not being passed to us
16:51:40kugeli.e. from the lockscreen on CM
16:52:20[Saint]How many non-CM ROMs actually have that?
16:52:43kugelhtc sense, but it doesn't work
16:54:02LloreanI don't recall having that in Sense.
16:54:22kugelit only shows if there music player is running IIRC
16:54:35LloreanI haven't used theirs. Heh.
16:55:16kugelperhaps only in newer versions too
16:55:26LloreanIs the bug going to affect other things. For example, if someone installs a generic playback control widget? Are they basically system events, or something custom?
16:55:34*Llorean was running a quite new version.
16:57:15kugelwhatever sends plain multimedia button keys, e.g. wired remotes
16:57:34JdGordonjumping into the fire... I wouldnt be completly against a seperate 1.5/6 build target if it meant existing bugs could be fixed more easily
16:57:34LloreanSo right now we don't work with remotes/headset, but fixing that would fix those as well?
16:57:58JdGordonoutright dropping 1.5/6 would be shit though
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16:58:56kugelfixing this bug requires in interface to be present in the framework :'(
17:00:58JdGordonand regarding the line height talk... yes, there is no way I would be happy with it being commited without being properly configurable
17:01:16JdGordonthat would be revert-without-discussion worthy
17:02:29bluebrothernot supporting special buttons is one thing ... playback stopping is something that I'd really call a bug
17:03:22kugelbluebrother: I thought you're onto fixing that?
17:03:39*JdGordon had my phone reboot after trying to start playback from the widgt tonight
17:05:10[Saint]I considered bluebrother's patch to be a workaround...perhaps I was wrong though.
17:05:56[Saint]JdGordon: that's happened to me a few times too.
17:06:20[Saint]I also get the odd (2 or 3 a week) complete random reboots when the RaaA service is running.
17:07:06JdGordoni get that too but i dont think rockbox is to blame
17:07:21bluebrotherkugel: well, I figured that increasing the buffer fixes it for me. But (a) I'm not a Java developer at all and (b) there seems to be something else involved
17:07:21JdGordongeneral random shutoffs, nfi what cuases it
17:07:38bluebrotherand yes, I consider my patch a workaround.
17:08:09bluebrotherunless someone tells me that this is the way to go :)
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17:09:12fmlHello. The local store has two Sansa C240 players (1 GB). I think it's the v1 players. Anybody interested?
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17:14:36bluebrotherhmm. Should I update Rockbox Utility to 1.2.10 to fix a single bug or should I make it Though the latter is somewhat stupid, and those numbers are arbitrary anyway
17:15:25*JdGordon still wishes he could come up with a workable way to make the lists completly themeable, line heights shouldnt need to be the same for all items in the list
17:15:49[Saint]do the version numbers actually coincide with anything in particular? Or is that what you mean by them being arbitrary?
17:16:13JdGordon3 numbers in the version is enough for anybody!
17:16:23[Saint]I mean, there's no "+.1 for minor fixes, +1.0 for "big" fixes rules?
17:16:52[Saint]It just needs to be versioned so people know what "new" is really no? ;)
17:17:43bluebrotherthere's not really any rule
17:18:31bluebrotherbasically I'd like to get Rockbox Utility 1.3 once I got around reworking the UI. Hopefully I'll manage to look into that around DevCon so people can comment on the new UI
17:19:01bluebrotherand for 1.2 ... well, there is no rule if we just increase the (current) 9 on every new version or do it in any other way.
17:19:37bluebrotherbut the problem with false positives on update check with 1.2.9-1 is some kind of a problem. Hence the plan for a new version.
17:20:59bluebrothera could instead be release for Windows only. OTOH there's a small fix that affects all platforms, so a new version doesn't hurt either.
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17:22:52kugel\o/ getting the interface via reflection works
17:24:04JdGordon:< reflection is EVIL!
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17:25:02wodzgah, I spent 2 days looking why sd card doesn't mount and found out that its FAT16 and I assumed that 2GB card should be FAT32 :/
17:25:36 Quit dfkt_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
17:26:46wodzso rockchip sd driver reached the point where it passes storage_init() and disk_mount_all().
17:30:21pamauryI am mistaken or rockbox doesn't have a generic sd driver ?
17:30:42kugelJdGordon: it is, but there's no way unless we drop support 2.1 and earlier
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17:32:44pamaurywodz: nice to hear that :)
17:34:26wodzpamaury: doesn't have one, true
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17:39:15CIA-87New commit by bluebrother (r29829): Rockbox Utility: Add some more cases to version check test.
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17:41:45kugelbluebrother: I vote for 1.2.10
17:42:31CIA-87r29829 build result: All green
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17:43:35bluebrotherkugel: I'd prefer that myself −− it's really just a number :)
17:44:20bluebrotherhmm. FS #10904 says a the patch has been updated but I can't see anything different to the original one. Except that it's not done from svn anymore. Gnah.
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17:45:23kugelI realize I don't actually need reflection, it's enough that the components are in the framework at compile time. the class loader will handle the lack at runtime with exceptions
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17:52:36kugelbluebrother: you have a 2.1 device?
17:52:40kugelor [Saint] ?
17:52:51kugelor, pixelma ?
17:52:51[Saint]I do.
17:52:55bluebrotherkugel: no, I'm on 2.2
17:53:50kugel[Saint]: can you test a build for me?
17:53:59kugelthe emulator crashes when playing music
17:55:22[Saint]not right this second, but if you put up a link, sure.
17:55:32[Saint]just let me know what I need to test.
17:55:47CIA-87New commit by bluebrother (r29830): SAPI voice creating: add slovak to languages. ...
17:55:50kugelcompiling right now
17:55:55kugeljust test if it plays music
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17:58:36CIA-87r29830 build result: All green
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18:11:32wodz\o/ I can read files from SD in bootloader
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18:12:33bertrikstill no idea what made the sd card suddenly go into TRAN state?
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18:13:15wodzthe fact is that SELECTING the card and checking for TRAN immediately after that fails always
18:13:50wodzand SELECT->TRAN takes ages
18:14:04wodz5s timeout is barely sufficient
18:17:55wodzI found out schematics for reference design of rk2706 based player. Now I understand why I couldn't find out how to read PLAY key - it is impossible while USB is plugged :-)
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18:20:32pamauryis the play key wired to some usb pin ?
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19:08:21smkhi Buschel , i got the new code. malloc usage has been reduced dramatically (if using FAAD_STATIC_ALLOC). so i don't think much work is remaining on that front.. wat do u suggest i do?
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19:46:48Chronon <−− Manual - Removes bits mentioning automatic booting of OF upon insertion of USB for AMSv2 players
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19:49:25mshathlonxphow can I submit my battery bench logs?
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19:51:31krazykitaside from just editing the wiki?
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21:49:12kugel[Saint]: I don't suppose you tested already?
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22:17:17kugelpamaury: do you think it's possible to give dircache entries an id? I'd like to remove dircache_get_entry_ptr() but maintain fast lookup
22:18:04kugelthose entries don't move, do they? could their offset from the dircache buffer start be used?
22:21:14kugelwell, if they moved the direct pointer would be just as fatal
22:24:23pamauryentries never move, that's why I suggested to partly rewrite dircache to use offsets instead of pointers
22:24:50pamaurythe only changes to dircache are made when deleting or creating files
22:25:02pamaury(or renaming)
22:27:06kugelonly exposing the offset would be a good start
22:27:53kugelunfortunately the dircache buffer also holds the d_names so you can't treat it easily as an array of entries
22:28:12pamauryis that a problem ?
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22:29:43pamaurywe could replace pointers by opaque types and create one or more functions to access the dircache data instead of exposing the internal structure
22:37:11kugelpamaury: only file.c actually uses the internals of the structures. the rest just cache the pointer to pass it back to dircache for filename lookup
22:40:48pamauryyeah and the usage is quite limited
22:42:08kugelalright, so I'm not going to worry further about dircache_get_entry_ptr() :)
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23:17:30kugelheh, it's pretty obvious that Slasheri wrote both dircache and tagcache
23:17:50kugelthe memory management is very similar
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23:39:20pamaurybut dircache was modified and partly rewritten over time
23:39:30pamaurytagcache...well stayed tagcache ;)
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