#rockbox 2011-05-19

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#rockbox log for 2011-05-19

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00:04:47	*	n1s made a marvelous statically conditionally expanding static inline :)
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01:00:27	sideral	Saint: Do you have a comment to FS #12107?
01:02:09	sideral	Or anyone else interested in the DB (Llorean perhaps)? I'd like to remove the track-number generation heuristic from database
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01:11:38	Llorean	sideral: I like removing the heuristic. I can't remember, you sort alphabetically by track name if no track number is present?
01:12:26	[Saint]	sideral: I'm all for it also, personally...but, I a: never saw the point in it at all, and b: have sanely tagged files.
01:12:32	sideral	Llorean: Right. In the tracker item I discuss the relative merits versus sorting by file name. Perhaps you have a comment after you've read through the item?
01:12:42	[Saint]	I'd like to be able to find the discussion around adding it in the first place.
01:13:05	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:13:56	Llorean	sideral: I'd read the item when you first posted it, but I've been through a lot since then so just wanted to double check.
01:14:50	Llorean	I think the "path of least confusion" is sorting by whatever string is displayed to the user in the database list, by default, honestly
01:15:05	Llorean	If you sort by anything other than what is actually displayed (except when an explicit sort is defined) users can mistake it for a bug.
01:15:19	*	[Saint] nods
01:15:20	Llorean	But "sort by trackname by default" is sane enough to work for most people.
01:15:35	sideral	thought so as well
01:15:40	*	Llorean goes to dinner.
01:15:44	[Saint]	the path of least confusion is often also the path of least resistance
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01:16:01	sideral	:) thanks Llorean and Saint
01:23:14	*	[Saint] finds a file on his phone that RaaA hates!
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01:23:33	[Saint]	"/system/etc/poweron.snd"
01:25:00	[Saint]	sideral: You know a bit about the db and tagnavi no?
01:25:12	[Saint]	How can I go about removing <untagged>?
01:25:15	sideral	only a bit :)
01:25:50	[Saint]	I use my own tagnavi_custom, but <untagged> annoys the flip out of me.
01:26:02	[Saint]	as it makes the db unusable for "insert all"
01:26:26	[Saint]	(this is on RaaA where you'll get a bunch of files from the OS in there because you can't chose the db location)
01:26:27	sideral	Saint: you could define a %format that displayed the file name if there's no title
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01:27:51	[Saint]	sideral: I want to get rid of <all tracks>, <random>, and <untagged>.
01:27:52	sideral	Saint: you can define a DB root on RaaA AFAIK
01:28:05	[Saint]	If I pasted my tagnavi custom, could you have a nosey at it for me?
01:28:10	[Saint]	(if you're not busy)
01:28:37	[Saint]	sideral: Nah, not as far as I'm aware you can't.
01:28:42	sideral	Saint: Not right now, need to go offline soon. But on another day?
01:28:48	[Saint]	if you can, the setting is well hidden.
01:28:58	[Saint]	sideral: Sure, no rsh.
01:29:01	[Saint]	*rush
01:29:29	sideral	I thought I saw some code to define a DB root. Maybe it was somewhere in the tracker... Don't remember now
01:29:52	[Saint]	Yeah, you can only define a filebrowser root as far as I'm aware.
01:30:05	[Saint]	but I'd love to be corrected. kugel: ^ ?
01:30:15	sideral	Would database.ignore and *unignore help you for now?
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01:30:55	[Saint]	sideral: Yes, that's my "fix"...but, it's not really a fix as it relies on root access.
01:31:40	[Saint]	(you're not supposed to be able to view the filesystem, let alone add/remove files from it)
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01:32:57	sideral	You're right, "/" seems to be hardcoded. But it seems simple to fix
01:33:42	[Saint]	if anyone is interested: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-4180a302.html is the file that really fucks up RaaA something chronic
01:34:10	sideral	as in make it crash?
01:34:14	[Saint]	the sound outputted (turn the volume way down) is a terrible modem/fax/white noise kinda sound.
01:34:56	sideral	I saw some discussion about removing <all tracks> and <random> as well somewhere (tracker?)
01:34:56	[Saint]	each time it's opened, the WPS gives it a different total track time too
01:35:02	[Saint]	usually around 30 mins
01:35:49	[Saint]	this (and other tracks that I just don't want played suck as notifications and ringtones) make the DB totally unusable on RaaA for me.
01:36:01	[Saint]	(as I mostly always to "Insert All"
01:36:02	[Saint]	)
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01:39:34	sideral	JdGordon: If you have a minute: You mentioned once that separate / partial DBs for removable media would be on the wish list. What exactly did you have in mind? Hiding / resurrecting tracks already kinda works when DB autoload/autoupdate is on...
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01:40:27	JdGordon	The best way would be to store a seperate database on the external card and merge the cards into the ramDB on insert
01:41:05	sideral	how would that be better than the status quo?
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01:43:43	JdGordon	im not sure it would?
01:44:06	sideral	it could be quite a bit faster than a rescan, OK
01:44:39	sideral	but it would raise new problems with unmount / eject because it would write to the medium
01:45:43	*	[Saint] just wants a "Start Database at" setting for the context menu ;)
01:45:54	[Saint]	...then I can start actually using the DB on RaaA again ;)
01:46:16	sideral	Saint: which context menu?
01:46:47	[Saint]	sideral: Same as the one for the FIleborwser, the filebrowser context menu.
01:47:14	[Saint]	ideally, it would behave (and be placed) exactly the same as the implementation for the Fileborwser.
01:47:26	sideral	Sounds doable
01:47:31	[Saint]	I'm sure if that were to appear, it would be committed immediately.
01:47:48	[Saint]	(it's beyond my technical ability, though)
01:48:50	sideral	I've took a note and will get to it... eventually ;)
01:50:33	[Saint]	I didn't mean to bug you directly, but, I can't say I haven't noticed that you've been doing a reasonable amount of work in and around the database...so, it's your own fault really :P
01:50:52		Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:51:00	sideral	So far people's response to me resolving their feature requests hasn't been all that great yet cough AlexP amiconn cough ;)
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01:53:24	[Saint]	well, that's not likely to help the situation...
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01:56:33	sideral	Saint: But don't lose faith, I'll get to it
02:00
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02:08:36	phanboy4	Is there an issue with .png cover arts currently or something?
02:09:06	[Saint]	define "issue".
02:09:35	phanboy4	Noticed some albums weren't displaying album art despite me having put it there.
02:09:42	phanboy4	All the ones that don't show are .pngs
02:09:51	phanboy4	need to fiddle with it some more.
02:09:54	JdGordon	we dont support png yet do we?
02:10:16	[Saint]	is it embedded AA, or is there a singular file, multiple per track files, or?
02:10:30	phanboy4	Single cover.png or folder.png
02:10:35	phanboy4	not embedded
02:10:45	[Saint]	Oh, and yes...I believe JdGordon is correct.
02:10:48	phanboy4	Oh? Maybe you guys don't support png. I kinda thought you did though. Maybe I'm wrong
02:10:59	phanboy4	Well that would explain it :P
02:11:00	[Saint]	I don't think we do PNG AA embedded or not.
02:11:33	[Saint]	It should be fairly simple to add the ability to display it, though.
02:11:57	[Saint]	We can display PNG with imageviewer, so, there's obviously some related code in the core already.
02:12:10	gevaerts	[Saint]: that's not in the core
02:12:25	[Saint]	Ah, derp...it's a plugin, that's right.
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02:13:04	phanboy4	Most of the files out there are JPG, but apparently I do have some PNGs.
02:13:17	phanboy4	anyway that clears that up. I'll convert 'em, thanks guys.
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03:15:08	*	[Saint] gives a heartfelt thanks to anyone here that may have in part helped to push the download stats of his iLike Nano theme up to ~12K
03:15:44	[Saint]	Apparently some of you guys like it, so, I'm happy to have made it.
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05:32:28	JoshuaChang	is it possible to run rb simulator in a specified samplerate?
05:32:50	JoshuaChang	eg: 48khz
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10:17:57	pondlife	jhMikeS: If you get time, could you look at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12118. Voice support is broken at the moment. I have a patch there that seems to fix it, but only have a sim to test it on - and I'm not certain I've put the PCM startup call in the right place.
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11:28:43	timccc	hey, is there a disk tool for the ipod video?
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11:37:07	linuxstb	timcc: To do what?
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11:39:25	*	gevaerts tells pondlife about the actual Android port thread :)
11:39:59	pondlife	heh - I thought I was on it...
11:40:14	gevaerts	You were on one of the unofficial build threads
11:40:20	pondlife	Ah, yes
11:40:31	pondlife	Will move my post
11:41:27	pondlife	Erm, can we only move topics, not posts?
11:41:45	Torne	split the topic firfst
11:41:56	Torne	it's kinda weird ;)
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11:44:20	pondlife	OK, think I got it right
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11:44:29	linuxstb	pondlife: IIRC, kugel is against that idea (using native widgets in RaaA). I would like them though (but not enough to do it...) But your problem just sounds fixable with a better (fat-fingered) theme for your device.
11:45:03	pondlife	In that case I fundamentally disagree with kugel ;)
11:45:38	pondlife	All apps should use as much native UI as possible, IMHO. Unless there's a compelling loss of functionality, I guess..
11:46:47	linuxstb	Me too ;) I think the issue is whether you regard all the UI customisation abilities of Rockbox as a feature RaaA needs to keep. Using native widgets would imply (to me at least) using the system theme.
11:47:55	*	B4gder favors native vs custom
11:48:01	pondlife	Some customisation would be lost, but stuff like WPS and colours should survive. Gradient menu bar I can live without..
11:48:11	linuxstb	Maybe the future direction of RaaA could be something for devcon people to discuss?
11:48:24	B4gder	I believe it is already mentioned in the wiki
11:48:45	pondlife	Sounds like it - I'd entirely assumed native was universally desired.
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11:50:35	linuxstb	Maybe it's only desired by people not actually working on RaaA ;) I'm sure it won't be trivial.
11:52:34	pondlife	Indeed - just my expectation, I guess. To be honest I don't think Rockbox will survive (for me) on Android - there are so many competitors that seem ahead in many ways. Voice support is the only killer feature I'm lacking...
11:53:33	linuxstb	How are the competitors better? (and what are they?)
11:53:35	pondlife	Certinly the ability to stream media over a WAN and do UPNP controller stuff is something you get very used to.
11:53:50	pondlife	UPNPlay + foo_upnp does most of it for me
11:53:58	pondlife	Neither sadly is Open.
11:54:12	pondlife	This is a bit OT though
11:54:26	linuxstb	Not if we're talking about what RaaA could do better.
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11:55:46	B4gder	I figure it should be possible to support streaming
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11:56:45	pondlife	Basically the media stays at home (in the main). I will preload for travel where GPRS is all I generally get. The winning app will cache my UPNP database and "buffer" to local storage in the background, so slow/intermittent networks interfere as little as possible.
11:57:17	B4gder	not only that, like hdd-based players you don't want to use the network interface all the time
11:58:09	pondlife	True.
11:59:10	pondlife	Guess some kind of pre-load list of playlists (including folders, naturally) could help. Could be a seperate app really, integrating into the RB database somehow?
12:00
12:00:07	pondlife	But, integrated enough that I could seamlessly browse my entire collection live, should I need.
12:00:15	gevaerts	So sync the database and built a 'second buffering' layer?
12:00:22	gevaerts	*build
12:01:12	pondlife	The UPNP model does all of the database querying on the server though, only sending a playlist to the client, IIUC.
12:01:42	B4gder	but of course other kinds of streams, like shoutcast, will only deliver music in "real-time" and then you can't really buffer a lot locally
12:02:03	pondlife	Yes, the networked world needs thought all round.
12:02:40	pondlife	Buffering is primarily a network resilience thing, not a HD-battery-saver
12:04:03	pondlife	Wonder what licence Cyberlink uses... http://www.cybergarage.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CyberLinkForC
12:05:18	B4gder	https://sourceforge.net/projects/clinkc/ says BSD
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12:23:11	pondlife	Hmm Original BSD (GPL-incompatible) or Modified BSD (might be ok)..?
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12:31:50	linuxstb	pondlife: Actual license text is here - http://clinkc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clinkc/trunk/COPYING?revision=639&view=markup - I think it's fine for us. But in any case, I think there are various uPNP libs out there.
12:33:00	pondlife	Thanks
12:34:13	linuxstb	But IIUC, the first thing to do would be to implement http streaming support. uPNP is a layer on top of that.
12:40:28	dfkt	i have an album encoded with FhG CBR, and of course it itsn't gapless. i fixed the encoder delay with foobar, which indeed makes it gapless in foobar and winamp. however, on rockbox it isn't gapless. i even tried much larger encoder delay values, but it always has gaps on rockbox. any ideas why this is so, or how i can fix this?
12:42:59	JdGordon\|	I dont think RaaA is the correct way to add UPNP support...
12:43:08	JdGordon\|	or native widgets
12:44:34	JdGordon\|	really i think there shuold be an entirely new GUI put onto the playback engine once it is split out to a lib
12:50:00	timccc	linuxstb: to try and repair the hard drive
12:50:11	timccc	timccc: hey, is there a disk tool for the ipod video?
12:51:27	pondlife	JdGordon\|: Some of the UI (SBS/WPS, especially) ought to be kept in RaaA, no?
12:52:43	JdGordon\|	why?
12:56:57	[Saint]	because losing themeing would SUCK
12:57:14	[Saint]	like, not just a little, but bigtime suck
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12:59:04	pondlife	JdGordon\|: It's one of the things Rockbox does better than the "competition"? Don't want to eject the baby with the bathwater...
12:59:32	[Saint]	afaik, no "competition" does this at all.
12:59:46	sideral	dfkt: take a look at FS #11891
12:59:52	[Saint]	themeing is one of Rockbox's truly awesome abilities.
13:00
13:00:15	[Saint]	want it to look crap and sterile? go for it. want eye candy? go for it.
13:00:18	[Saint]	it's awesome.
13:00:19	Zagor	[Saint]: theming is totally unimportant to me
13:00:31	[Saint]	Zagor: See above ^
13:00:44	[Saint]	The awesomeness is the option.
13:00:59	n1s	i agree with a totally new native ui, i don't care about theming either
13:01:52	Zagor	[Saint]: yeah I'm just pointing out there are some portion of users (and devs) who consider a native UI more important than theming
13:01:53	n1s	but if playback et al. is separated into a lib, people can cook up whatever flavour they like, we don't really need to select one official versrion
13:03:30	Zagor	I must admit I'm a little pessimistic about getting that done well in a short gsoc project. but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
13:03:50	[Saint]	I guess it wouldn't be so bad if I'd actually finished putting together a nice RaaA default theme that serves more purpose than my own uses...
13:03:55	*	[Saint] has been busy.
13:04:03	[Saint]	I have the bulk of the work done, though.
13:04:22	JdGordon\|	pondlife: imo rockbox's strength is codec support... i dont really care about the themeing
13:04:22	[Saint]	there is actually a very nice RaaA cabbie that I'd love to see make it to SVN I have floating around.
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13:05:05	pondlife	JdGordon\|: Rockbox has many strengths, I don't care for theming that much either, but recognise it's a reason people use it.
13:05:39	JdGordon\|	sure, but anyone would be free to reimplement that also
13:06:23	[Saint]	if it were to be reimplemented and accepted, what's the point of dropping it? I'm trying to scroll around looking for that, but I don't see it.
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13:12:22	[Saint]	pondlife: what's your target resolution? I have a currently slightly busted (but still highly usable) RaaA touch cabbie done for 240x320 and 480x800 presently.
13:12:28	[Saint]	Better than nothin' ;)
13:12:35	gevaerts	UPNP shouldn't be added in an android-specific way if that can be avoided in a reasonable way I think
13:13:18	dfkt	sideral, thanks, very interesting. i will try that patch
13:14:22	pondlife	480 x 800, but I couldn't work out the folder structure... I don't have a /sdcard folder..
13:14:57	pondlife	gevaerts: Nothing should be host/OS specific except UI
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13:15:20	gevaerts	Yes, that's what I mean
13:16:07	gevaerts	But Android native implies java, so starting on that path probably means being incompatible with other systems
13:20:30	[Saint]	pondlife: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-146464a9.html
13:20:49	[Saint]	The dir structure is all set up to just extract to /mnt/sdcard/
13:21:37	[Saint]	after that, chose the theme DEFAULT from the themes menu and you're away laughing, but it has a quirk in that my nice popup tabs are broken presently and I've had no time to fix it.
13:22:03	[Saint]	However, I added touch regions so that the theme is entirely usable without them.
13:22:13	pondlife	[Saint]: I have no /mnt/sdcard - /mnt/usbStorage ? or /mnt/rockbox ?
13:22:27	pondlife	Sorry, am 100% new to this
13:22:34	[Saint]	Oh...shitballs, your device has no sdcard?
13:22:43	pondlife	Not that I can see
13:22:52	Torne	pondlife: the thing the android device exposes over USB is the sdcard or equivalent
13:22:57	[Saint]	Aha, I'd need to roll a build with it included then.
13:23:03	[Saint]	I'll bug you when it's done.
13:23:14	pondlife	OK, so just the root, where I see /rockbox ?
13:23:18	Torne	pondlife: yes.
13:23:31	[Saint]	Or that, hmmm...I didn't know that. thanks torne.
13:23:39	pondlife	Windows path is GT-I91000\Phone\rockbox
13:23:43	Torne	[Saint]: try not to confuse normal people who don't have rooted devices and don't see any other parts of their filesystems :)
13:24:19	[Saint]	Hm? my sd appeared as mnt/sdcard always.
13:24:52	Torne	[Saint]: i think you are confusing the host filesystem with the device :)
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13:25:00	pondlife	My rockbox folder includes only rocks.data, nvram.bin, config.cfg... is this the right place?
13:25:08	[Saint]	yes.
13:25:09	linuxstb	timccc: There is nothing specific to an ipod video (unless you count itunes). Any disk repair tool should work.
13:25:41	Torne	pondlife: yes. themes on android work the same as themes on regular rockbox. the dir layout is the same for those files, it's just the bits of the binary that are elsewhere you can't see.
13:26:42	[Saint]	the only difference is "rockbox" vs. ".rockbox"
13:26:53	pondlife	I'm never going to be able to select the theme through the menu - will edit config.cfg..
13:29:03	pondlife	Hmm, no
13:29:08	pondlife	still on defaults
13:29:33	pondlife	(Also the splash screen Rockbox logo is gigantic - off screen..!)
13:30:01	[Saint]	this sounds...odd.
13:30:52	[Saint]	The splash screen I have no control over.
13:30:59	[Saint]	I can't break that with a theme.
13:31:31	[Saint]	if it's a random build off the wiki, who knows what's going on in there.
13:31:57	pondlife	OK, have selected config.cfg and now have larger fonts, but still default WPS
13:32:30	pondlife	Seems to be the wrong orientation - will have a look around
13:33:14	[Saint]	Oh...I see.
13:33:23	[Saint]	your device is actually 800x480?
13:33:35	[Saint]	as opposed to 480x800
13:34:01	[Saint]	because, that will seriously mess things up, yes.
13:34:06	pondlife	Yes
13:34:18	pondlife	Any idea how I should stop playback ? ;)
13:35:01	[Saint]	use HW back to get to the home screen, then kill the task with the process manager?
13:35:08	pondlife	Yup
13:35:34	pondlife	OK, will hunt out a 800x480 build
13:36:19	pondlife	Later - got to work :/
13:36:30	[Saint]	You'd probably need to roll your own.
13:36:56	[Saint]	And I'm busy presently too, but in a bit I can roll you a build that just swaps the screen orientation.
13:37:22	[Saint]	(fairly easy to achieve and Android is smart enough to change HW dpad around too if you have one)
13:38:43	pondlife	No dpad, Galaxy.
13:39:12	*	[Saint] has a very nice dpad on his Galaxy, so assumes pondlife means the S
13:39:20	pondlife	Ah, yes
13:39:26	pondlife	S2 actually
13:39:35	*	[Saint] gets jealous :P
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15:14:23	dfkt	sideral, awesome - FS #11891 indeed fixes the crappy FhG album. thanks a lot! :)
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15:17:05	sideral	dfkt: good to know! If you'd like to respond to any of the issues raised in the tracker item once you've done some testing, please feel free to do so :)
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15:18:48	*	dfkt clicks 'watch task'
15:18:52	dfkt	will do :)
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15:21:59	*	[Saint] is beginning to wonder what's keeping FS #11891 out of svn again...
15:22:20	[Saint]	I mean, I know why, but...in the same respect, I don't know why.
15:22:34	[Saint]	there's a lot of support for it in the tracker task.
15:22:47	[Saint]	(there's a lot of negativity, too, though)
15:23:07	[Saint]	well...negativity isn't the right word there.
15:23:11	gevaerts	It's still a broken idea!
15:23:12	dfkt	if i understand it correctly, it only deals with bad mp3 encoders, it leaves proper lame untouched, as well as other codecs?
15:23:28	gevaerts	dfkt: no
15:23:31	[Saint]	dfkt: Yes, that's my understanding too.
15:23:43	[Saint]	those with "nicely" encoded files will so no difference.
15:23:48	[Saint]	those without, will.
15:24:12	[Saint]	*s/will so/will see/
15:24:16	gevaerts	It deals with encoders that don't have a supported gap tag, which is not the same as "bad encoders"
15:24:56	dfkt	so it deals with aac too, for example (since that isn't gapless by default)?
15:25:19	gevaerts	sorry, s/encoders/mp3 encoders/
15:25:22	dfkt	ah
15:26:08	dfkt	my understanding is that anything besides lame is actually "bad", but i may be wrong there
15:27:32	sideral	I'd like to see this go in. It's an optional convenience feature for users with imperfect files.
15:27:45	[Saint]	New commit by [Saint]: Revert can of worms opened by prior discussion.
15:28:07	dfkt	heh
15:28:10	sideral	dang
15:28:34	dfkt	i see that's the other part of the discussion - if it should have a menu item to enable/disable, or if it should just be "always on"
15:28:38	[Saint]	I'll keep it to the tracker instead, I suspect this has been done to death here.
15:28:55	dfkt	ok
15:28:57	sideral	good idea.
15:29:19	pondlife	[Saint]: FYI - my device is actually 480x800, but I'd installed an 800x480 build... I think
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15:50:17	[Saint]	pondlife: I'm doing a set of svn head RaaA builds now (with a bunch of various usability patches included)
15:51:05	pondlife	OK - will test. Assume a standard portrait screen is 480x800, right (i.e. x co-ord first)?
15:54:40	[Saint]	Correct.
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16:40:13	[Saint]	pondlife: Sorry, got tied up. Here you go, you'll need to uninstall your previous RaaA as this one is signed by a different machine, so it won't be treated as an update.
16:40:14	[Saint]	http://www.datafilehost.com/download-f94bf23e.html
16:40:51	[Saint]	Everything is included in the .apk so all you need to do is install it and then apply the theme from the theme settings menu
16:41:48	[Saint]	if anyone else wants a 480X800 RaaA .apk, there it is ^
16:42:38	[Saint]	(I can also package the source if required)
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16:50:58	[Saint]	240X320 version: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-efc86ec8.html
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16:55:41	desowin	Sansa Connect's iNAND seems unlikely to hold bootloader, kernel, persistent values and platform. I think it just has ext3 partition on it (but I'll know for sure after dumping it)
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17:03:30	*	pondlife wonders why Rockbox needs the "Phone Calls" ability on Android?
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17:05:32	dionoea	pondlife: probably to interrupt playback on incoming calls
17:06:39	*	[Saint] nods
17:06:39	pondlife	Makes sense
17:06:51	pondlife	[Saint]: Thanks - looks a bit better ;)
17:06:59	[Saint]	No worries.
17:07:15	[Saint]	I have the "fat finger" problem myself ;)
17:07:27	pondlife	Although I did find that the Debug/OS Stacks screen has no exit key.
17:08:57	[Saint]	if you press the top level list item, it will take you back one level.
17:09:25	pondlife	Not in that screen it doesn't
17:09:40	[Saint]	It does on my handset.
17:10:17	pondlife	Ah, the top of the list, not the Main Menu heading
17:10:20	pondlife	Gotcha
17:10:33	[Saint]	so, you'd press the "Stack usage:" list item to get back.
17:10:38	pondlife	Shouldn't Main Menu do the obvious thing?
17:11:05	[Saint]	it does in screens that support .sbs touch items
17:11:17	[Saint]	(btw, I'm glad you found that intuitive ;))
17:11:24	pondlife	:/
17:11:59	[Saint]	wait...what? that's a good thing! :D
17:12:18	[Saint]	Most people that try my theme I've had to explain where each and every touch item is.
17:12:57	[Saint]	It's possible to use this theme without any HW buttons, which the "real" default lacks to my understanding.
17:12:59	pondlife	I've barely used it - there's lots more I could get confused with ;)
17:13:06	[Saint]	hehe
17:13:23	pondlife	No, the decault theme shouldn't assume hardware buttons
17:13:59	[Saint]	it shouldn't, no ;)
17:14:57	pondlife	Hoo - Panic - stack overflow ... viewpoert manager
17:15:03	[Saint]	the only thing that's "broken" in my theme is the pop-out tabs in the .wps, they break the track info text until you exit/re-enter the screen again.
17:15:10	[Saint]	(but I'm working on that)
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17:15:46	[Saint]	what happened, or what was happening, when that overflow occured?
17:15:51	[Saint]	I've never seen that before.
17:17:04	[Saint]	re: the popout tabs, I added touch areas to the rest of the screen (pretty much everything on the .wps does something) so that it's entirely possible to never use them, due to their current brokenness)
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17:19:47	pondlife	Sorry , can't repro (yet)
17:20:02	pondlife	Had just built the database and been prompted to reboot though
17:20:14	pondlife	Then - instant panic and tiny font
17:20:37	pondlife	No, happened again
17:20:56	pondlife	Seems to be transition from WPS to Database browser
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17:23:28	[Saint]	by doing? stopping playback...?
17:23:36	[Saint]	I can't reproduce that here, sorry.
17:23:43	[Saint]	that's annoying :/
17:24:02	pondlife	Not able to repro here - happened twice in total
17:24:13	[Saint]	Hmmm.
17:24:43	[Saint]	how do you mean "transition from .wps to database"?
17:24:58	[Saint]	I can't offhand think of a way to do that other than stopping playback.
17:25:23	pondlife	The Cancel button (or whatever it's called)
17:27:54	[Saint]	Oh, right...HW Back
17:28:28	[Saint]	Hmmm, nah, can't manage it here.
17:29:22	[Saint]	Most of the iner workings of RaaA is a complete mystery to me ;) I guess there are some quirks when running the same piece of code on multiple different hardware types.
17:29:26	[Saint]	*inner
17:35:00	pondlife	OK, try this (1) start playback from db (2) go back using cancel/back button (3) re-init database (4) select database (you'll see a count-up, then "reboot to enable" (5) go to WPS (6) press HW Back a few more times
17:35:48	pondlife	Each time you try to return to the Database browser and it kicks you out with a "reboot to enable" splash it must be recursing?
17:37:25	[Saint]	Oh...nice one ;)
17:37:30	[Saint]	Great catch!
17:38:04	[Saint]	I suspect we need to prevent initing the database during playback...or, find out what the flying fuck is happening here.
17:38:25	pondlife	No init during playback is fine
17:38:50	pondlife	E.g. I might well play using the file browser while the db inits.
17:38:53	[Saint]	coupled with the fact that a reboot is indeed likely needed to enable the db, preventing initing the db during playback from it seem sperfectly sane.
17:39:25	pondlife	This is a UI bug, not a db one, I'm fairly sure.
17:39:32	pondlife	Will test in the sim too
17:39:42	*	[Saint] pings kugelp so he can look at this at some stage
17:41:01	[Saint]	I wonder why the "reboot to enable" splash prevents you from backing out of the .wps
17:43:54	[Saint]	I guess it wasn't found until now as I suspect that it's not a particularly common event that one should be re-initing the database whilst playing from it at the same time.
17:44:09	[Saint]	I would expect that most users only init the db once.
17:44:22	[Saint]	(and then rely on autoupdate, like myself)
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17:51:27	pondlife	I learnt way back not to trust update
17:51:44	pondlife	I'm sure it's fine nowadays, but it used to be buggy - only an init would work 100%
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18:11:55	kugel	gevaerts: I put up a naked wiki page about gsoc, I'll try to fill it until next week
18:13:17	[Saint]	kugel: You probably saw it already, but pondlife discovered an interesting bug in RaaA (possibly Rockbox in general).
18:13:33	pondlife	Probably in general
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18:14:05	kugel	btw guys, I never said I disagree with native widgets. I just said I'm most certainly not going to do it
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18:19:57	jstoone	Hi guys, I've got some problems with my 5.5G Ipod Video, when I run the installer it fails every time at installing the bootloader
18:20:03	jstoone	I'm running Ubuntu btw.
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18:44:21	kugel	Torne: do you know a bit about jni?
18:44:54	Torne	not really.
18:45:59	kugel	I can't seem to find information about this bit: I know LocalReferences die when the native function returns, but what if I return the reference to java?
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20:02:42	*	pixelma sees pondlife around and wonders whether he'll show up at DevCon
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20:12:32	saratoga	does the manual say what sample rate the fuze uses for recording?
20:16:07	pixelma	http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansafuze/rockbox-buildch10.html#x13-15600010.3 not sure if this is correct for the Fuze but the manual tries to be accurate for each player (see the same chapter in the c200v1 manual where I know it's true)
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20:18:00	saratoga	i don't think thats right
20:18:55	saratoga	hmm maybe it is
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20:19:30	pixelma	I know that the c200v1 and e200v1 have bad hardware so other sample rates aren't possible but didn't think the pure AMS Sansas suffered the same
20:22:16	Buschel	saratoga: do you know if A52, ADX, ATRAC, Cook or Dialog telephony type support gapless playback?
20:22:28	*	Buschel still works on the manual extension
20:22:39	saratoga	you'd have to ask MT about things in the .RM container, but the rest do not
20:23:39	Buschel	ok, I'll review Cook sources then
20:23:51	Buschel	I assume the lossless coders _all_ support gapless
20:24:03	saratoga	they should
20:24:22	Buschel	and I assume the synthetic codecs do not
20:30:25	Buschel	cook does not seem to have any gapless-like code
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20:34:12	saratoga	mt says he didn't see anything about doing gapless for those formats, so theres probably no way to do it
20:34:16	saratoga	or at least no known way
20:34:30	saratoga	i think atrac in oma is gapless, so theres probably a tag for it somewhere
20:34:41	saratoga	rm is ancient so i doubt its gapless
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20:37:41	Buschel	the atrac3 code has a member called "delay". the value is derived from rm's extradata buffer. sounds like something in the gapless direction, but it has a fix value and is not used anyway...
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21:45:16	merbanan	:(
21:45:25	merbanan	I know abit about cook and atrac
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21:45:52	merbanan	no way to get gap less out of it
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21:46:44	merbanan	oma is id3 based so is id3 supports it then oma supports it
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22:00
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22:07:13	Buschel	merbanan: ok, that fits what I have seen so far
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22:13:18	fml	Hello. I would like to add the scrolling tag to some lines in the default radio WPS, since some go beyond the screen on my player and with the font I use. Any objections?
22:21:49	CIA-16	New commit by Buschel (r29899): Add a codec featureset overview (for now 'seek', 'resume' and 'gapless') to the manual. Additionally change table formatting and add a note to the SID ...
22:25:16	Beremat	on the newest classic, setting the brightness to anything above 50 produces no effect
22:25:18	CIA-16	r29899 build result: All green
22:25:53	Beremat	and by that I mean that all brightnesses 51-64 are the same as 50
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22:35:58	bertrik	Beremat, I could look into that if I knew how the backlight is controlled. I can't find in the code what PMU is used.
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23:00
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23:15:31	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:21:32	saratoga	did the manual build fail?
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23:30:05	saratoga	wtachi: so the first step of your proposal is to work on some basic codec clean up
23:30:31	saratoga	as I remember the most obvious thing was some of the huffman/bitstream stuff
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23:31:52	wtachi	yeah, I've found a bunch of places that do endian conversion, etc.
23:33:19	saratoga	last year some of the ffmpeg bitstream stuff was consolidated
23:33:42	saratoga	but looking at teh codecs folder, liba52, wmavoice and flac still use their own
23:34:43	saratoga	see: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=27430
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23:35:27	wtachi	when you said on the ML that none of the codecs could be upgraded from upstream, I don't think that's quite true
23:35:43	wtachi	ALAC, ASAP, Vorbis, and Wavpack might have useful upstreams
23:36:16		Quit ReimuHakurei (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
23:36:22	saratoga	usually we do most of the development on these decoders with only occasional upstream updates
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23:36:47	saratoga	so we'd never upgrade to a new release of a codec, but we might pull in some of their commits if they look useful
23:37:03	wtachi	right, and it's not like I'll make sweeping changes
23:37:18	saratoga	yeah but don't be afraid to either
23:37:32	saratoga	we've already rewritten large parts of a number of codecs
23:38:01	saratoga	if something can be done better we should do it better, and then maybe submit the changes up stream, not stay with what upstream has
23:38:22	wtachi	makes sense
23:38:52	saratoga	for instance on wma, vorbis, aac, a52, cook, atrac and wmapro we through out the included mdct and in favor of one we wrote our selves (although inspired by the ffmpeg one)
23:38:54	wtachi	I guess the most basic cleanup is just to remove commented/unused code
23:39:09	saratoga	yeah if you see some of that
23:39:22	saratoga	i suppose it depends on what your'e interested in cleaning up
23:39:39	wtachi	just the easy stuff
23:39:40	saratoga	we can dig into some of the codecs, or just merge some of the common functions and move onto the codec library
23:39:55	wtachi	especially it doesn't make sense to do anything complicated before the test suite is working
23:40:13	saratoga	yeah true
23:40:23	Buschel	jhMikeS: can you again support me some measurements of FS #12215 (cook codec)?
23:41:04	*	Buschel missed at least one word in his last sentence...
23:41:25	wtachi	I have to go (chores and dinner)
23:41:31	saratoga	ok
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23:46:17	Zagor	rasher: is your buildgraph page not running anymore, or is it a temporary problem? rasher.dk/rockbox/buildgraphs/graph.php?r=29884&debug">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/buildgraphs/graph.php?r=29884&debug
23:46:20	jhMikeS	Buschel: I suppose so
23:46:50	rasher	Zagor: You tell me! That's your mysql server (for some values of your)
23:47:00	Zagor	oh, right :-)
23:47:29	rasher	I guess there's a non-zero chance that maybe my host is blocking outgoing mysql connections or something
23:47:36	jhMikeS	Buschel: same test file?
23:47:43	Buschel	yes
23:47:57	saratoga	Zagor: did the manual build fail?
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23:48:46	Zagor	saratoga: did it? the html manuals all say may 19
23:49:06	saratoga	Zagor: the appendix is cutoff
23:49:26	CIA-16	New commit by Buschel (r29900): Add AAC to the manuals codec featureset table.
23:50:12	Zagor	saratoga: which appendix, from which manual? I see them in some at least.
23:50:34	saratoga	Zagor: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansafuze/rockbox-buildap2.html#x17-354000B
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23:51:01	saratoga	hmm some of them are there though
23:51:14	bluebrother	Zagor: what do you think about enabling wiki markup for Flyspray?
23:51:45	Buschel	hmm, did r29899 somehow break the manual build?
23:52:32	CIA-16	r29900 build result: All green
23:53:02	Zagor	Buschel: no, manuals are not built on commit. only once/day.
23:54:10	Buschel	well, in the last days I did some changes to the appendix. would be good to have some information about what has gone wrong.
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