| 00:05:28 | kugel | bluebrother: no, nothing special should be needed |
| 00:05:48 | kugel | libmisc.so is put into the libs/armeabi/ folder withou anything special |
| 00:06:38 | bluebrother | strange. |
| 00:07:45 | bluebrother | the apk has the file but when I look into the lib folder of the application it doesn't exist. |
| 00:11:09 | [Saint] | kugel: When I said that, I'd said it knowing that I've already tried svn head (clena), and it's not. |
| 00:11:12 | [Saint] | (fixed). |
| 00:11:32 | [Saint] | I was actually surprised as I'd never seen or noticed the commit that "fixed" it. |
| 00:11:58 | kugel | well, that commit fixed it, I don't know what's wrong on your end |
| 00:14:20 | pixelma | what 'it' are you talking about |
| 00:14:23 | pixelma | ? |
| 00:15:20 | | Quit {phoenix} (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:15:40 | bluebrother | pixelma: some screens not exiting with the back button |
| 00:19:14 | pixelma | hmm, can't remember one but I don't use RaaAa very regularly nor did I investigate special screens or menus yet |
| 00:25:43 | | Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@64.134.151.107) |
| 00:34:39 | bluebrother | is there a way to logcat from Rockbox directly? I.e. from native code? |
| 00:38:36 | sideral | Saint, jhMikeS: Display file's basename instead of "<Untagged>" for untagged files in DB views: FS #12132 |
| 00:39:28 | | Quit Topy44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:42:51 | kugel | bluebrother: debugf in debug builds |
| 00:48:03 | bluebrother | debug build or logf build? |
| 00:48:21 | kugel | debug build |
| 00:48:51 | bluebrother | ok, thanks |
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| 01:02:52 | kugel | did anyone try a simulator recently? it's not playing music and freezing on exit on my system |
| 01:07:38 | | Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 01:09:12 | kugel | the latter seems to be a bug in pulseaudio or sdl, but I'm unsure about the first |
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| 01:32:12 | sideral | if in doubt, it's a bug in pulseaudio ;) |
| 01:36:06 | sideral | and yes, I have tried a sim a few hours ago −− worked fine |
| 01:50:15 | | Quit ender` (Quit: I invented the term 'Object-Oriented', and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind. -- Alan Kay) |
| 01:52:16 | kugel | Slasheri, pamaury: I put my dircache patches to http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12133 |
| 01:52:31 | kugel | (they're also on http://repo.or.cz/w/kugel-rb.git/shortlog/refs/heads/gsoc2-dircache-rework) |
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| 02:00 |
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| 02:44:14 | JdGordon | [Saint]: hey, can you add the hotkey touch button to the sbs please? |
| 02:44:20 | JdGordon | or at least when in the file browser? |
| 02:44:23 | JdGordon | and wps :) |
| 02:56:44 | | Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 03:00 |
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| 03:03:27 | [Saint] | it *IS* in the .wps. |
| 03:03:53 | [Saint] | the .sbs, doesn't have it, as I had NFI where to put it. |
| 03:03:58 | [Saint] | JdGordon: ^ |
| 03:04:16 | [Saint] | (I'm pretty sure I remember telling you where it was in the .wps...) |
| 03:05:42 | | Quit balintx (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 03:06:02 | [Saint] | kugel: How can you say "that commit fixed it" when I tell you (quite clearly, I thought) that it's not fixed? |
| 03:06:19 | [Saint] | svn head or a patched build of mine makes no difference to the way it behaves. |
| 03:06:20 | kugel | because it's fixed and working on my phone |
| 03:06:33 | JdGordon | [Saint]: ah yes, the aa image is hotkey in the wps... i want it in the sbs though :) |
| 03:06:35 | [Saint] | Oh, right...and your phone is the only test case that matters ;) |
| 03:07:04 | kugel | no, but this is nothing device-dependant |
| 03:07:14 | [Saint] | Well....apparently, it is. |
| 03:07:30 | JdGordon | *couph* back isnt working for me in the system menu |
| 03:07:51 | JdGordon | or playlists |
| 03:08:03 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 03:08:03 | * | [Saint] smirks slightly. |
| 03:08:25 | kugel | JdGordon: runnung [Saint]'s build? |
| 03:08:51 | JdGordon | i hapen to be, yes |
| 03:09:17 | * | JdGordon will laugh hysterically if one of [Saint]'s patches broke it |
| 03:09:17 | [Saint] | Did it work for you beforehand? it never has for me. |
| 03:09:23 | JdGordon | i dont remember |
| 03:09:28 | kugel | I can believe it's not working in [Saint]'s build |
| 03:09:45 | [Saint] | Sure, I break everthing...that's a well known fact. ;) |
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| 03:12:30 | [Saint] | The builds on your wiki page don't work for me in that respect either. |
| 03:12:41 | [Saint] | s/your/kugel's/ |
| 03:12:57 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:13:42 | kugel | I don't know what's on the wiki |
| 03:13:58 | [Saint] | You put them there. :D |
| 03:14:11 | kugel | yes, but I don't know when |
| 03:14:20 | kugel | they may or may not have the fix in |
| 03:20:26 | | Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5) |
| 03:23:02 | [Saint] | It's 29590, apparently. I'm certainly not denying the fact that a patch in my build might be messing it up (not a single one of them is "my" patch, though...so I'd expect someone else to have seen it). This build has the same problem for me, as well as clean svn head. |
| 03:24:00 | kugel | I don't know what's wrong, really. it's working perfectly for me |
| 03:24:53 | kugel | I'll re-try svn in a minute |
| 03:24:59 | [Saint] | If it *is* a patch of "mine" that's messing it up for other people (I'l never be surprised at crazy samsung stuff)...I can't for the life of me thing of what one it would be. |
| 03:33:07 | [Saint] | Or...why it should be screen specific. |
| 03:33:44 | * | [Saint] wonders WTF is going on here. |
| 03:33:59 | [Saint] | I'm happy to accept it's just irreparably broken on my phone. But if it was working for others, I want to know what's doing it. |
| 03:34:00 | kugel | "Version: r29928-110529" is working perfectly |
| 03:35:41 | kugel | well, the reason that it didn't work before that commti was that some screens didn't "announce" that the main menu is left, so the back button overriding wasn't deactivated |
| 03:36:06 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 03:37:13 | kugel | but that's fixed with the mentioned commit |
| 03:39:53 | [Saint] | Hmmm...perhaps. |
| 03:40:07 | [Saint] | Whoops, wrong window, |
| 03:43:41 | | Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) |
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| 03:48:05 | [Saint] | I'm afraid there's no way for me to figure out what (if anything (probably something by the sound of it)) is breaking it with my patches, though. |
| 03:48:48 | [Saint] | As it's quite literally never worked for me. The System menu has always kicked me to the desktop with the back button. |
| 03:49:10 | [Saint] | And asking someone to test ~10 or so builds is a little far fetched. |
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| 04:00 |
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| 04:31:48 | * | [Saint] wonders why RaaA doesn't show up in the task manager under "active applications" unless there is playback. |
| 04:32:17 | [Saint] | ...makes it a hassle to shutdown/reboot without a dedicated menu entry to do so. |
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| 04:48:03 | [Saint] | bluebrother: Do you have access to your version of the "Shutdown in main menu" oatch? |
| 04:48:07 | [Saint] | *patch too. |
| 04:48:54 | [Saint] | I've found out what's messing it up in my builds (I think) using a simulator, but my handset still doesn't want to work properly. |
| 04:49:48 | [Saint] | this is a good thing, and a bad thing...as I can fix it for everone else hopefully, but I have NFI why my phone is ignoring the back button (or handling it incorrectly, rather). |
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| 04:58:27 | [Saint] | Hmmm, nevermind. I think I can see it, I just don't understand why it's breaking things. |
| 04:58:59 | [Saint] | Or why my phone is some type of mutant that never seems to work *quite* how anyone elses does. |
| 05:00 |
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| 05:08:43 | [Saint] | Ok...I found it! I shuffled some stuff around a few lines and it magically works on the sim. |
| 05:08:53 | [Saint] | still not on my phone though :-S |
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| 05:32:13 | [Saint] | Hmmmmm...why does the RaaA build process bother with plugin bitmaps? |
| 05:33:17 | [Saint] | unless I'm missing something, only credits, random_folder_advance_configuration and pictureflow actually get included. |
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| 05:48:27 | [Saint] | bluebrother: JdGordon : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30204410/%5BSaint%5D%27s%20RaaA%20-%20480X800%20%5Br29928%5D.apk |
| 05:49:36 | [Saint] | Fixed the issue with the screens where back doesn't work (in simulation at least, my handset remains an oddity...which is why I never noticed it breaking I guess) apologies. |
| 05:49:57 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Could you also test if the popup touch tabs meet your requirements now? |
| 05:56:47 | [Saint] | Oh yay...now my theme isn't working on my phone :-S |
| 06:00 |
| 06:19:11 | [Saint] | bleargh! might pay not to touch that 'til I figure out what's going on with the theme... |
| 06:30:14 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Nevermind...it appears I only broke the 240X320 theme |
| 06:31:00 | [Saint] | I can't see how, though. - "%?Tp<%?Tl(f,4.0)<%vs(g,set,3)|%xd(Db)%?if(%vg(g), <, 4)<%vs(g,set,1)>>>" fails, where "%?Tl(f,4.0)<%vs(g,set,3)|%xd(Db)%?if(%vg(g), <, 4)<%vs(g,set,1)>>" works. |
| 06:31:42 | [Saint] | including &?Tp<> *anywhere* appears to break it, actually...does RaaA not know it's a touch capable device?!?! ;) |
| 06:31:55 | [Saint] | *%?Tp<> rather |
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| 07:48:15 | [Saint] | JdGordon: bluebrother: After many small revisions and driving myself insane I present thee with http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30204410/%5BSaint%5D%27s%20RaaA%20-%20480X800%20%5Br29928%5D.apk |
| 07:50:29 | [Saint] | the "driving myself insane" part came from the resources on SD patch selectively over-writing some files and not others, but only sometimes. (I suspect that was why the theme failed for you initially the other day also JdGordon), it appears the safest way to update is to completely wipe out the /mnt/sdcard/rockbox/ dir (you can leave the config.cfg in safely it appears) between installs. |
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| 11:34:46 | bluebrother | [Saint]: some numbers you might like (: http://www.alice-dsl.net/dominik.riebeling/rockbox/rockbox-info-libcodecs-1.png |
| 11:35:47 | [Saint] | How the... |
| 11:36:48 | bluebrother | that's svn with my patches |
| 11:37:11 | [Saint] | Ahhhh...right, there's no "excess baggage" because 480X800 is solely a RaaA target so doesn't get all the crap packaged with it. |
| 11:37:43 | | Quit kugel__ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 11:37:49 | [Saint] | 240X320 gets the whopping great big ~7MB GNU Unifont added in. |
| 11:38:01 | [Saint] | (among other things) |
| 11:38:33 | | Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 11:39:49 | bluebrother | why is that? |
| 11:40:26 | [Saint] | because it's an existing target resolution, so the stock themes get added to the build. |
| 11:40:32 | [Saint] | (not very well thought out IMO) |
| 11:40:44 | bluebrother | I got down from 10MiB btw. That is with my resources on SD patch |
| 11:41:06 | bluebrother | hmm, I don't get this. Usually only cabbie is packaged IIRC. |
| 11:41:17 | bluebrother | or does cabbie use Unifont on that target? |
| 11:41:27 | [Saint] | 240X320 "my build" == 12.09MB Total, 8.65MB Application, 3.44MB Data |
| 11:41:33 | [Saint] | No, it doesn't. |
| 11:41:44 | [Saint] | But the *other* stock themes are packeged. |
| 11:42:07 | [Saint] | Rockboxed, dance puff duo, etc. |
| 11:42:08 | bluebrother | hmm. IMO Rockbox should only ship a single default theme. All others can be installed from the net. |
| 11:42:17 | * | [Saint] nods. |
| 11:42:31 | [Saint] | I've mentioned the sheer silyness of it before now...but, hey ;) |
| 11:42:53 | bluebrother | ah, right. h120 also has DancePuffDuo etc in the zip |
| 11:43:20 | [Saint] | I realized what was happening one day when I noticed that the 480X800 .apk was ~1/2 the size of the 240X320 one ;) |
| 11:43:38 | [Saint] | and I thought.."Hmmm...that 'aint right" |
| 11:44:30 | bluebrother | hmm, there's no DancePuffDuo with 240x320 even ... |
| 11:45:04 | [Saint] | Oh, right...I guess my knowledge of the default themes is a little off then ;) |
| 11:45:14 | [Saint] | those were the only two I could remember the names of. |
| 11:45:54 | [Saint] | cabbie, icatcher, rockboxed and unicatcher get packaged. |
| 11:46:07 | [Saint] | (along with failsafe, and default_icons) |
| 11:46:28 | [Saint] | it's unicatcher that really does the damage, as that's the one that includes GNU Unifont |
| 11:46:46 | [Saint] | but realistically, only cabbieV2 should be there. |
| 11:47:00 | [Saint] | And that's not just for RaaA IMO, but *all* targets. |
| 11:47:36 | [Saint] | A user did the extensive work of putting all the packaged themes on the themesite so that they could be stripped from the builds...butthat never happened. |
| 11:48:34 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:49:54 | bluebrother | I agree |
| 11:50:30 | * | bluebrother rebuilds to check his changes are still working |
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| 11:50:51 | bluebrother | especially for that libmisc.so case |
| 11:51:20 | [Saint] | what (additional) changes did you makr apart from the patch I already have included? |
| 11:51:28 | [Saint] | *make |
| 11:51:39 | bluebrother | remove the codecs :) |
| 11:51:58 | bluebrother | you don't need them anyway |
| 11:52:06 | [Saint] | Just ones you're not using? or are they packaged twice? |
| 11:52:45 | bluebrother | no, I moved them out of libmisc.so into the lib folder of the apk. So they aren't extracted anymore and thus aren't stored twice |
| 11:53:18 | bluebrother | requires a few changes to Rockbox since Android only accepts the files if they are called lib<foo>.so |
| 11:53:28 | [Saint] | Ahhhhhh, hmmm, nice. You'll add this to the tracker? |
| 11:53:36 | bluebrother | thought I could at least leave out the lib part but nope. |
| 11:53:42 | [Saint] | (assuming it works) |
| 11:53:54 | bluebrother | when I'm done with testing if it breaks other builds, definitely. |
| 11:54:01 | bluebrother | that's a change I _really_ want to go in |
| 11:54:30 | [Saint] | I really want the resources on uSD patch in, but, I understand you don't? |
| 11:54:40 | [Saint] | (I seem to remember someone mentioning that the other day) |
| 11:55:43 | [Saint] | It saved my life before I updated to 2.2 |
| 11:57:58 | bluebrother | well, I'm not against that getting in. But I'm still not completely convinced it's the way to go |
| 11:58:17 | bluebrother | as for the codecs I think pulling them out of libmisc.so is the way to go though. |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:23:11 | kugel | bluebrother: it should be possible to delete libmisc.so after extraction, but there needs to be some other indicator to not always re-extract |
| 12:23:16 | | Join IAINSNELL [0] (~5ec2b204@giant.haxx.se) |
| 12:23:56 | IAINSNELL | anybody here who can help with a rockbox instalation isue? |
| 12:24:11 | [Saint] | several, just ask your question. |
| 12:24:18 | bluebrother | kugel: I've tried doing that (when I was working on FS #12063) but didn't succeed |
| 12:24:37 | bluebrother | I assumed it's something permission related. |
| 12:25:02 | kugel | impossible to delete? |
| 12:25:17 | IAINSNELL | I@m trying to insall on a 5gen ipod vid. i've got the boot loader in but every time i try installing rockbox i get an error "rockbox cant be found on .ipod" |
| 12:25:21 | IAINSNELL | any ideas? |
| 12:25:47 | [Saint] | IAINSNELL: How are you trying to perform the installation? |
| 12:26:10 | IAINSNELL | through the rockbox instalation from windows |
| 12:26:41 | kugel | bluebrother: ah, the lib folder in the app dir is owned by system, and others only have "r-x" access |
| 12:26:41 | [Saint] | using RButil? |
| 12:26:42 | IAINSNELL | i tryed on Ubuntu but didn't even get the bootloader |
| 12:28:29 | IAINSNELL | using rockboxutility |
| 12:28:35 | bluebrother | there is no error message "rockbox cant be found on .ipod". I assue you are talking about the error message saying "rockbox.ipod not found"? |
| 12:29:09 | bluebrother | You need permissions for raw disk access to install the bootloader. On Linux this usually means that you need to run Rockbox Utility (or ipodpatcher) as root. |
| 12:29:15 | IAINSNELL | "can't load rockbox.ipod" |
| 12:29:59 | bluebrother | then you have installed the bootloader but missed the main Rockbox. |
| 12:30:19 | bluebrother | put the Ipod into disk mode, connect it to the computer and install Rockbox (not the bootloader, you already have that) |
| 12:30:31 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 12:30:34 | IAINSNELL | I've tryed that several times |
| 12:31:16 | bluebrother | then describe how "tryed" looked. |
| 12:31:47 | bluebrother | have you configured the correct mountpoint for your Ipod in Rockbox Utility? |
| 12:32:36 | IAINSNELL | using the rockbox utillity i've clicked on the install tab, then click on install rockbox. I've selected the stable biuld and then i waite for the progress window to finish . think clicked ok |
| 12:33:06 | IAINSNELL | its got the corect drive letter |
| 12:35:17 | IAINSNELL | is there a waty to maualy create the file on the root for the ipod drive? |
| 12:35:20 | bluebrother | there are two reasons for this to fail: (1) the download failed but you should get an error message then, (2) you installed to the wrong drive. This is something Rockbox Utility can't detect reliably so you won't get an error message when installing to the wrong drive |
| 12:35:31 | bluebrother | sure, follow the manual installation instructions |
| 12:35:34 | bluebrother | the manual has them |
| 12:35:48 | bluebrother | it's basically just extracting a zip file. Rockbox Utility does exactly this. |
| 12:36:00 | bluebrother | does the player have a folder .rockbox in its root? |
| 12:36:23 | IAINSNELL | yes |
| 12:36:48 | bluebrother | (installing on a wrong drive can be really helpful when developing on Rockbox Utility :) |
| 12:36:54 | [Saint] | Then I suspect you need to check your disk for errors. |
| 12:36:56 | bluebrother | does that folder have a file rockbox.ipod in it? |
| 12:37:05 | [Saint] | if the .rockbox folder is indeed present and complete |
| 12:37:05 | IAINSNELL | it dose yes |
| 12:37:08 | bluebrother | and when did you install the bootloader? |
| 12:37:18 | IAINSNELL | 15 minutes ago |
| 12:37:26 | bluebrother | hmm, then you have a recent one. |
| 12:37:35 | bluebrother | run chkdsk /f x: |
| 12:37:41 | bluebrother | (with x: being the drive letter) |
| 12:39:17 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 12:40:13 | IAINSNELL | I'm formating it |
| 12:40:19 | IAINSNELL | I@ll try a fresh install |
| 12:40:22 | [Saint] | what? why? |
| 12:40:38 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 12:40:41 | bluebrother | hmm, audio stopping issue again :( Fortunately not that bad as before. |
| 12:40:50 | [Saint] | that's like cutting off an arm to fix trimming your fingernails. |
| 12:40:54 | IAINSNELL | the disck is fFULL of errors |
| 12:41:18 | bluebrother | then it's no surprise it's acting up |
| 12:41:29 | [Saint] | so, run chkdsk and allow it to fix the errors, there's no need to format unless it cannot recover them. |
| 12:42:20 | | Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@p57B4C35F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:43:55 | IAINSNELL | aparently its not avalable for raw drives |
| 12:44:11 | IAINSNELL | oh wate |
| 12:44:15 | IAINSNELL | my fault |
| 12:44:23 | IAINSNELL | hand finished the format |
| 12:44:29 | | Quit antil33t () |
| 12:46:20 | IAINSNELL | windows7 dosn't seem to work well with rockboxutility |
| 12:47:51 | | Join jordan` [0] (gromit@2a01:e34:eebf:c890:21a:4dff:fe63:6966) |
| 12:48:20 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 12:49:11 | bluebrother | it works fine for me. How does "doesn't work well" look for you? |
| 12:49:49 | IAINSNELL | lots of "Rockbox has stoped responding" errors |
| 12:50:09 | IAINSNELL | and its FIXED |
| 12:50:17 | IAINSNELL | this is what i think happend |
| 12:50:43 | bluebrother | what is fixed? |
| 12:50:53 | | Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services) |
| 12:51:02 | | Join [7] [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 12:51:23 | IAINSNELL | must not have formated it properly) so after a second format and chkdck, it installed smovely |
| 12:51:55 | [Saint] | protip: to format properly, let iTunes handle it. |
| 12:52:10 | [Saint] | iTunes will *always* set up the device "correctly". |
| 12:53:44 | bluebrother | unless you're on a Mac :) |
| 12:53:56 | IAINSNELL | any sugestions for a good music program ,not itunes, to download track to the rockbox system? |
| 12:54:12 | bluebrother | (in which case it will do "the right thing" but not for Rockbox since it needs a WinPod) |
| 12:54:20 | bluebrother | IAINSNELL: Windows Explorer |
| 12:54:34 | [Saint] | IAINSNELL: You don't need anything to sync your music to Rockbox. |
| 12:54:38 | [Saint] | Just drag&drop. |
| 12:55:13 | IAINSNELL | great |
| 12:55:19 | IAINSNELL | I hate itunes |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:28 | rudi_s | Hi. I just started using rockbox on my sansa clip+ today and it works great, thanks for your work. I have one minor issue though (only partly rockbox related), my music filenames contain characters which are illegal on fat32 partitions (like ' or :), is there a unix/linux tool (script or similar) to just remove those characters before copying them to the directory? Thanks. |
| 13:01:23 | bluebrother | rudi_s: Amarok 1.x had an option to remove characters illegal on FAT when copying files. No idea about current Amarok 2 |
| 13:01:49 | rudi_s | bluebrother: Thanks, I'd prefer a simple console program if possible. |
| 13:02:29 | bluebrother | rudi_s: this also seems suitable (just googled it): http://filerenameutils.sourceforge.net/lowercase.html (see the examples section) |
| 13:02:59 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:03:09 | rudi_s | bluebrother: Thank you, that looks good. |
| 13:04:43 | bluebrother | or write your own. Shouldn't be hard since the number of characters isn't much and renaming files from perl or any other scripting language is simple |
| 13:04:55 | * | [Saint] vaguely remembers doing the same thing with mp3Tag |
| 13:05:06 | bluebrother | could even be integrated in some sync script |
| 13:05:22 | rudi_s | bluebrother: Good idea, thanks again. |
| 13:05:38 | * | bluebrother doesn't have such problems because abcde is configured to already create FAT-safe filenames :) |
| 13:06:11 | * | [Saint] doesn't have such problems because he's really anal about his metadata ;) |
| 13:09:10 | | Quit stoffel (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 13:12:06 | IAINSNELL | rockbock seems great but it hasn't solved my problem. my ipod won't play music. |
| 13:12:38 | [Saint] | Rockbox won't solve badly damaged hardware. |
| 13:12:49 | [Saint] | Or currupted files. |
| 13:13:20 | [Saint] | That being the only two reasons I can immediately think of why (if the installation did indeed go smoothly) that should happen. |
| 13:13:38 | IAINSNELL | I'm worried its bad hardware |
| 13:13:48 | IAINSNELL | I feel ive tryed everything else |
| 13:15:01 | | Quit jordan` (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 13:16:36 | | Join domonoky [0] (~Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) |
| 13:19:38 | kugel | pamaury: did you see my dircache patches? |
| 13:22:15 | | Quit IAINSNELL (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 13:22:30 | | Join JoshuaChang [0] (~joshuacha@222.70.133.12) |
| 13:22:37 | bluebrother | kugel: any thoughts about using SVNVERSION as versionName in AndroidManifest.xml? I've added that in my local tree and don't see any problems from it, and having the real version number in the applications management of Android is quite useful IMO |
| 13:23:23 | kugel | what if we actually release for android? I believe 3.x and rXXXXX don't mix well |
| 13:23:26 | [Saint] | bluebrother: Wow! I'd be interested to see that patch. |
| 13:23:35 | [Saint] | I tried to get that working on my tree but failed. |
| 13:23:45 | [Saint] | I got sick of seeing "v1.0" all the time. |
| 13:24:02 | bluebrother | same as for other players. Just override it via VERSION |
| 13:24:22 | kugel | or we use the current release version (even though there's no release) like thomasjfox' ports do |
| 13:24:34 | [Saint] | seems sane. |
| 13:24:39 | kugel | bluebrother: I mean, can android handle it? |
| 13:25:03 | kugel | (does it even care?) |
| 13:25:19 | bluebrother | kugel: yes. Android (as far as I understood) has two version numbers. One internal one and the versionName which is just a decorated version string. |
| 13:25:22 | * | kugel couldn't care less about the version number :) |
| 13:25:51 | bluebrother | if you have to uninstall it a couple of times because of space always looking at "1.0" is a bit annoying |
| 13:25:59 | bluebrother | at least for me :) |
| 13:26:02 | * | [Saint] nods. |
| 13:33:06 | * | bertrik wonders why his patch for iap large packets causes overflows apparently |
| 13:45:57 | kugel | bluebrother: seems good. perhaps have CODEC_PREFIX,_EXTENSION in rbpaths.h also? |
| 13:46:01 | bluebrother | ok, any comments / concerns on this? I'd really like that to get into svn http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12134 |
| 13:46:39 | kugel | (a few comments in buildzip.pl as to why android is handled differently wouldn't hurt either) |
| 13:47:14 | bluebrother | hmm, CODEC_PREFIX has been in metadata.h. I could of course move that. |
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| 14:00 |
| 14:05:21 | | Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) |
| 14:07:29 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) |
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| 14:15:54 | JdGordon | bluebrother: any reason you are putting patches onto fs instead of stright into svn? |
| 14:20:58 | | Quit FoH (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 14:22:59 | kugel | gevaerts: but it doesn't connect |
| 14:24:37 | kugel | oops |
| 14:28:02 | | Join FoH [0] (~foh@adsl-98-83-211-194.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:28:16 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 14:29:03 | | Quit liar (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 14:29:33 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 14:31:40 | pamaury | kugelp: no, where are they ? |
| 14:32:06 | kugelp | my git repo and fs |
| 14:32:32 | | Quit FoH (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 14:33:50 | bluebrother | JdGordon: to get some feedback, that's all |
| 14:34:08 | [Saint] | You had some, it's awesome! |
| 14:34:21 | [Saint] | (breaking stuff is a brilliant way to get feedback, btw ;)) |
| 14:34:37 | bluebrother | (and probably some discussion −− I'm still not completely convinced that the resources on SD patch is the way we should go) |
| 14:35:19 | bluebrother | but I could have committed the most recent one directly it seems :) |
| 14:35:40 | [Saint] | I can't think of a better alternative when it comes to reducing the impact of the installation on the internal storage. |
| 14:35:59 | pamaury | kugelp: why sizeof('/') ? |
| 14:36:16 | pamaury | 1 is more correct |
| 14:36:32 | kugelp | its the same |
| 14:36:33 | bluebrother | [Saint]: maybe I should break things more often then ;-) |
| 14:36:57 | kugelp | isn't it? |
| 14:37:03 | [Saint] | that's the spirit! |
| 14:37:57 | pamaury | kugelp: afaik, sizeof('/')=sizeof(char) (=1 on target) but what you want here is not a size, it's a count |
| 14:38:12 | pamaury | so it's a bit bizarre |
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| 14:40:32 | bluebrother | according to Wikipedia the sizeof operator is intended to be used on types. |
| 14:40:42 | kugelp | pamaury: that is removed in a later patch anyway. but on this case I want space for this char |
| 14:42:14 | pamaury | your dircache_get_entry_ptr rework makes it simpler to write but less efficient, strlcat needs to go through the whole string so it's more closer to a quadratic behaviour than a linear one; the best thing would that the function returns a pointer to the end of the buffer. Also where is copy_path_helper defined ? |
| 14:43:08 | kugelp | justabove? |
| 14:43:18 | pamaury | In fact I would meger patch 2 and 3 to take advantage of the returned size |
| 14:43:37 | pamaury | oops, sorry, didn't see it |
| 14:46:31 | pamaury | I'll have at the order patches later |
| 14:47:59 | kugelp | pamaury: with name_len removed this got a not less efficient anyway. does efficiency matter for this function? |
| 14:48:52 | kugelp | but the result could be used to aid strlcat indeed |
| 14:50:20 | | Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 14:52:20 | pamaury | it's less efficient and my point is that with a trivial modification you get something always efficient |
| 14:52:58 | pamaury | though it does not *need* to be really efficient I think |
| 14:54:26 | kugelp | pamaury: It's not trivial because the size parameter needs to handles differently |
| 14:56:06 | pamaury | just write an auxillary recursive function |
| 14:57:43 | kugelp | another one? |
| 14:58:05 | kugelp | copy_path_helper is already such one :-) |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:03:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:03:21 | | Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 15:25:29 | | Join ant0 [0] (~ant@cpc4-heme11-2-0-cust106.9-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 15:31:25 | | Join Sundiver [0] (~Philip@174.124.71.117) |
| 15:33:24 | ant0 | Hi all, I am having issues on my Sansa+ clip, basically Im not sure how to view any files on my external memory card on Rockbox (3.8.1). Is it possible? and does anyone have advice for me please? |
| 15:35:47 | [Saint] | there should be an entry for the uSD in the filebrowser. |
| 15:37:35 | ant0 | under "files" I can see any entry for "##PORT#" is that it? |
| 15:39:17 | ant0 | Maybe I have not helped matters by placing the files in a custom directory? Should I try and match the main partition? |
| 15:39:54 | | Join ChickeNE_ [0] (~ChickeNES@192.5.85.36) |
| 15:40:21 | [Saint] | any of the ##<foo>#directories are from the Sansa FW, and can de safely disregarded. |
| 15:40:34 | [Saint] | And no, your directory structure matters not. |
| 15:41:04 | | Quit ChickeNES (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 15:41:18 | [Saint] | It sounds as though your uSD just isn't being detected...which iiuc, can happen with these devices. |
| 15:41:36 | bertrik | ant0, the external memory card should show up as <microSD> in the Files menu |
| 15:42:22 | ant0 | Ok, thanks for the information. I do not have that entry in the files menu unfortunately. |
| 15:43:20 | bertrik | You can also have a look at menu System / Debug / View disk info and then click right ( >>| ) to see low-level info about the card |
| 15:44:41 | ant0 | It does list microSD in the view disk info screen, which I can only imagine is good news! |
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| 15:45:08 | | Part Aevum ("Saliendo") |
| 15:45:10 | bertrik | microSD 0 is the internal memory, microSD 1 is the external memory |
| 15:46:02 | ant0 | It does list microSD 1 :) |
| 15:47:35 | ant0 | Under the Files menu, it lists; ##music#, ##port#, .rockbox, audible, audiobooks, music, podcasts, record. |
| 15:47:58 | ant0 | Music shows all of my music on the system partition. |
| 15:49:54 | ant0 | When I plug the player in to my computer it shows both drives and they are fully accessible fyi. |
| 15:50:43 | ant0 | My external is formatted as NTFS is that compatible? |
| 15:51:22 | [Saint] | that'll be it. It needs to be FAT |
| 15:51:47 | ant0 | oh there's me trying to be clever! |
| 15:52:00 | ant0 | Thanks so much for all of your help, best get formatting! |
| 15:52:45 | ant0 | Also Id like to say this program is amazing, it makes my dinky cheap mp3 player about 10x better xD |
| 15:57:04 | [Saint] | It is, it does, and thanks! |
| 15:58:11 | ant0 | Thanks again! much appreciated. good bye! |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:10:42 | Sundiver | Hello guys, do you know is there .fnt description anywhere? |
| 16:10:54 | Sundiver | .fnt file I meant |
| 16:11:36 | bluebrother | Sundiver: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/FontFormat |
| 16:11:59 | bluebrother | (and there's always the source) |
| 16:12:18 | Sundiver | Really short info there |
| 16:12:32 | bluebrother | it's more than no info |
| 16:12:54 | bluebrother | and I don't think there is more info around at all. Except for the source |
| 16:12:57 | Sundiver | Yes, bad info better than no info |
| 16:13:11 | Sundiver | I start to think same |
| 16:13:27 | bluebrother | well, I'd rather say better no info than wrong info. Though that is not much info, so better than no :) |
| 16:13:36 | Sundiver | yup |
| 16:13:59 | Sundiver | Trying to write .fnt file viewer/editor |
| 16:15:31 | Sundiver | Reccomended way fontforge -> .bdf -> .fnt is creates ugly fonts |
| 16:15:52 | bluebrother | some people had success with that. |
| 16:16:03 | Sundiver | And fontforge is way far from being stable |
| 16:16:12 | bluebrother | but maybe going fontforge -> ttf -> fnt might be a better way these days |
| 16:16:20 | Sundiver | Nope |
| 16:16:49 | Sundiver | Fontforge rasterises vector font not well |
| 16:17:27 | | Quit ant0 (Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515) |
| 16:17:31 | Sundiver | Also I need some practice in programming too |
| 16:18:03 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:18:12 | * | Sundiver went to download sources |
| 16:19:37 | Sundiver | Thank you guys for great software |
| 16:20:06 | [Saint] | Sundiver: You're aware of convttf? |
| 16:20:38 | [Saint] | Rockbox supports antialiased fonts now, so you can just grab any .ttf font and pass it through convttf. |
| 16:21:18 | [Saint] | "./convttf [options] input.file" |
| 16:21:18 | Sundiver | I used it by Rockbox didn't accept it |
| 16:21:38 | [Saint] | Are you running an ancient build? |
| 16:21:54 | [Saint] | Rockbox has supported antialiased fonts for a long time now. |
| 16:22:08 | soap | long? |
| 16:22:12 | Sundiver | My player doesn't |
| 16:22:29 | Sundiver | Sansa Clip+ |
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| 16:26:27 | bluebrother | [Saint]: for a long time? Not really. 3.8 doesn't support it |
| 16:27:30 | [Saint] | Yeah...I was just looking at that myself, I thought it was in for 3.7 |
| 16:27:32 | bluebrother | Sundiver: your player doesn't accepting antialiased fonts means your build is too old. Or you used a broken converter :) |
| 16:27:35 | [Saint] | whoops. |
| 16:27:59 | bluebrother | but you can easily find those information ... just check the MajorChanges wiki page linked from the frontpage |
| 16:29:06 | gevaerts | bluebrother: IIRC mono screens don't do AA fonts |
| 16:30:00 | bluebrother | good point. But do they accept AA fonts? |
| 16:30:16 | gevaerts | How could they? |
| 16:31:15 | bluebrother | by ignoring the AA information? |
| 16:31:36 | gevaerts | There is no non-AA information in them |
| 16:31:44 | bluebrother | hmm. |
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| 16:41:20 | bertrik | bluebrother, clip+ is a mono target, so it has no AA support I think |
| 16:42:36 | * | [Saint] is pretty sure he's seen AA on a clip before now...but that may have been funman just playing about. |
| 16:42:54 | [Saint] | Don't they have pictureflow, and mpeg player? |
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| 16:43:37 | gevaerts | Those are plugins, so they can use greylib |
| 16:43:46 | gevaerts | greylib in core would be madness |
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| 17:03:02 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:09:37 | * | [Saint] lols hard at iLike Nano hitting the 11.5K download mark. |
| 17:10:02 | [Saint] | ...some people have no taste ;) |
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| 17:50:39 | Buschel | does any ipod dev have interest in a hand-soldered iPod dock adapter? I did not use it for a while, maybe someone is searching for such thing? |
| 17:50:42 | Buschel | -> http://postimage.org/image/2zvsbgays/ |
| 17:52:20 | n1s | pretty :) |
| 17:52:39 | pamaury | what a mess :-o |
| 17:53:41 | Buschel | yes, that wasn't the best piece of well-designed hardware I did ever see ;) |
| 17:54:13 | Buschel | but it worked for the things I wanted to do (power consumption stuff on the iPod Video some years ago) |
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| 18:06:45 | bluebroth3r | [Saint]: why? iLike Nano looks quite good on the Nano's display |
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| 19:03:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 19:23:55 | CIA-16 | New commit by bluebrother (r29929): Add source tree version into AndroidManifest.xml ... |
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| 19:32:50 | CIA-16 | New commit by bluebrother (r29930): Fix an implicit declaration warning. |
| 19:36:17 | bluebroth3r | hmm, what's wrong with the build server? |
| 19:36:31 | CIA-16 | r29930 build result: All green |
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| 19:56:45 | pixelma | there is still at least one shipped theme missing from the theme site, because the theme site doesn't handle the Player's screenshots correctly IIRC |
| 19:58:19 | pixelma | expecting pixel x pixel screenshots and 11x2 is a bit too small... ;) |
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| 19:59:25 | gevaerts | pixelma: wasn't that fixed? |
| 19:59:45 | pixelma | can't remember that it was |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:00:25 | pixelma | not saying it isn't true. I just went by memory |
| 20:03:56 | gevaerts | r27198 |
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| 20:08:36 | kugelp | bluebroth3r: is AndroidManifest.xml deleted on make clean? |
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| 20:22:56 | bluebroth3r | kugelp: sure, that's the one generated in the build folder |
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| 20:26:18 | kugelp | bluebroth3r: I use android/ as build dir |
| 20:26:24 | kugelp | because it works with eclipse |
| 20:26:33 | bluebroth3r | urgh. |
| 20:26:41 | bluebroth3r | ok, that is a problem then. |
| 20:26:56 | bluebroth3r | never thought anyone would build in-tree :) |
| 20:27:12 | kugelp | you have to if you use eclipse, no? |
| 20:28:07 | bluebroth3r | not sure. Only used eclipse for looking into those property files so far. |
| 20:28:15 | bluebroth3r | but anyway, will change that. |
| 20:29:21 | bluebroth3r | I guess the Android SDK can cope with that file having a different filename? |
| 20:29:50 | kugelp | bluebroth3r: perhaps you can put the generated xml into the bin subfolder? |
| 20:30:39 | bluebroth3r | seems not :( |
| 20:30:42 | bluebroth3r | good idea |
| 20:31:28 | kugelp | aapt takes a parameter for locating the manifest, I don't know if that's enough or if other commands have the same |
| 20:32:21 | kugelp | or, perhaps there's some other way to specify the version other than a string constant |
| 20:41:29 | n1s | sideral: do you want to take a quick look at a tagtree.c patch that just saves some binsize, it's quite simple? |
| 20:42:53 | | Quit benedikt93 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:44:44 | CIA-58 | New commit by bluebrother (r29931): Android: rework r29929 AndroidManifest.xml version handling. ... |
| 20:48:03 | CIA-58 | r29931 build result: All green |
| 20:52:18 | pixelma | gevaerts: ok, I really missed it. The "progressive.wps" is still missing from the theme site though ;) |
| 20:52:41 | pixelma | also remote WPS handling |
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| 21:03:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:05:00 | freddyb | I'm having trouble building the theme_editor. I get this: /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible [cut]/themeeditor/build//libskin_parser.a when searching for -lskin_parser |
| 21:05:01 | freddyb | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lskin_parser Any ideas? |
| 21:09:20 | bluebroth3r | what platform? |
| 21:10:27 | gevaerts | builds fine here |
| 21:10:59 | gevaerts | hm, there's a problem with the make clean target. That doesn't remove build/ |
| 21:11:06 | gevaerts | Maybe an old build in there? |
| 21:11:31 | bluebroth3r | maybe building on OS X? |
| 21:12:34 | freddyb | Ubuntu 64bit 11.04. |
| 21:13:19 | gevaerts | freddyb: did you by any chance build the theme editor for 32bit in the same checkout? |
| 21:16:06 | freddyb | OK, I deleted everything in the themeeditor/build/ directory and it worked. Must have been a leftover from a previous build... Thanks! |
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| 21:23:46 | * | bluebroth3r spots some problems with the themeeditor project file |
| 21:29:36 | bluebroth3r | hmm, I could get that theme editor about dialog finished. |
| 21:29:55 | bluebroth3r | any thoughts on using the full CREDITS in the theme editors about dialog (as done in Rockbox Utility)? |
| 21:32:00 | sideral | n1s: Yes, I'd like to |
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| 21:33:19 | CIA-58 | New commit by bluebrother (r29932): Theme Editor: add libskin_parser files to clean rule. ... |
| 21:34:06 | n1s | sideral: http://pastebin.ca/2071682 it replaces the repeated MATCH macros with loops, saving about 700 bytes on a coldfire build |
| 21:36:43 | CIA-58 | r29932 build result: All green |
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| 21:42:37 | Buschel | wow |
| 21:42:53 | * | Buschel experiences a multicore build (make -j) the first time |
| 21:43:28 | Buschel | and this is still with cygwin |
| 21:44:16 | n1s | yeah, it really makes a big difference |
| 21:44:18 | sideral | n1s: The patch seems to be a good idea, and the implementation looks good. I can help testing this unless you want to commit it right away |
| 21:44:57 | n1s | sideral: it would be great if you tested, i tested a bit in a sim and it seemed to work fine |
| 21:45:52 | sideral | n1s: I'll include it in my regular build and report back. Perhaps open an FS task for it? |
| 21:46:00 | n1s | sure |
| 21:46:13 | Buschel | :/ the build did not finish properly |
| 21:46:21 | CIA-58 | New commit by bluebrother (r29933): Fix some gcc 4.6 warnings. |
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| 21:47:35 | sideral | n1s: BTW, thanks for testing the patch for FS #12065 - Database RAM cache doesn't work with Chinese-simp! |
| 21:48:12 | n1s | sideral: opened FS #12136 and no problem :) |
| 21:49:07 | n1s | i should have spotted the overwriting of the string when looking at the code but didn't :) |
| 21:49:17 | * | bertrik thinks of a good way to do double-buffering in iap |
| 21:49:48 | CIA-58 | r29933 build result: All green |
| 21:49:53 | Buschel | ok, a 2nd call of make -j finishes the build properly |
| 21:50:26 | n1s | Buschel: was there a dependency error? |
| 21:51:22 | Buschel | n1s: some timeout after " *** Waiting for unfinished jobs...." |
| 21:51:37 | n1s | weird |
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| 21:54:03 | sideral | n1s: I only noticed because I couldn't match against "<Untagged>" in a non-English locale :) |
| 21:55:35 | n1s | sideral: some testing of other translations suggests that you are right, translations that are longer than <untagged> crash while those that aren't look ok |
| 21:55:43 | n1s | or at least don't crash |
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| 22:00:53 | tjb0607 | is there a minecraft font that works in RockBox? (.fnt) |
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| 22:18:22 | kugelp | n1s: I wonder if a binary search makes more sense for this stuff |
| 22:18:46 | | Quit rasher (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 22:19:31 | n1s | kugelp: i don't think it's performance critical and how would you binsearch strings? |
| 22:21:27 | kugelp | it works just fine if the array is ascii sorted? |
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| 22:22:16 | n1s | hmm, right |
| 22:25:06 | kugelp | http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=lib/bsearch.c;h=5b54758e2afbc4d323d344eb4aff185d45af98ef;hb=1a94dc35bc5c166d89913dc01a49d27a3c21a455 |
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| 22:26:42 | n1s | afaict the search is only used when parsing the tagnavi file so should not be speed critical but feel free to try it out |
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| 22:27:38 | kugelp | no time :) |
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| 22:31:26 | kugelp | hrm, if the dircache was sorted, binary search could speedup cache lookup quite a bit |
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| 22:32:15 | kugelp | but I wonder if it's worth keeping the cache sorted (Slasheri?) |
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| 22:45:47 | briman0094 | i'm looking to start developing plugins for rockbox, but don't know where to start. can somebody help me out? |
| 22:46:58 | wtachi | briman0094: have you compiled rockbox? |
| 22:49:59 | briman0094 | not yet |
| 22:50:08 | briman0094 | i have it on my player but i haven't gotten the source |
| 22:51:05 | pixelma | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DocsIndex#For_Developers may be a good starting point |
| 22:51:21 | briman0094 | ok thx |
| 22:51:27 | briman0094 | i'll check it out |
| 22:51:33 | briman0094 | is it written in c++ or assembler? |
| 22:51:58 | briman0094 | or something else |
| 22:52:27 | wtachi | briman0094: C and assembler |
| 22:52:33 | briman0094 | ok |
| 22:52:43 | briman0094 | haven't done much assembler... |
| 22:52:44 | briman0094 | lol |
| 22:53:02 | briman0094 | well i'll go check it out thx |
| 22:53:03 | wtachi | you probably won't need to, for a plugin |
| 22:53:09 | briman0094 | ok good :D |
| 22:53:19 | briman0094 | bye |
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| 23:00 |
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| 23:02:46 | bertrik | n1s, nice patch in FS #12136, saves nearly 1200 bytes on a clip+ build |
| 23:03:06 | n1s | ah :) |
| 23:03:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:04:14 | bertrik | I'll double-check that on a clipv1 build |
| 23:05:08 | | Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:05:24 | pixelma | bluebroth3r: your "enable headphone detection" patch (the May 4th one) seems to be out of sync |
| 23:06:36 | bertrik | n1s, odd, I get only 496 bytes savings on the clipv1 |
| 23:08:02 | bertrik | IIRC, the clipv1 uses thumb by default, while clip+ uses arm instructions, so that probably explains the difference in saving |
| 23:10:27 | bluebroth3r | pixelma: I'd like to get that committed soon. Not sure if decreasing the headphone detection debouncing to 0.5s is a problem for other players |
| 23:10:33 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) |
| 23:11:05 | pixelma | one of the failed hunks is just a whitespace change which seems to have been fixed in SVN also now |
| 23:11:27 | pixelma | well yes, I wanted to build my own and try with my phone too ;) |
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| 23:40:33 | n1s | bertrik: clipv1 is also using -Os so maybe gcc is trying a little harder :) |
| 23:47:37 | | Quit freddyb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:55:54 | | Quit Topy44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).