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#rockbox log for 2011-05-31

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00:25:52*bluebrother tries to draw attention to some random task like FS #8968 and wonders if those few lines of code will actually work
00:25:53bluebrother-fs : FS #8968 : inline settings
00:26:09bluebrotheryay! Now we need better task descriptions :)
00:26:52bluebrotherit's like 40 lines of python code or so. Most likely won't survive a network disconnection
00:27:39bluebrotherbut since it's the first time I was looking into something like that it's quite ok :)
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00:46:48pixelmabluebrother: maybe that could be added to logbot which IIRC is the "dancer" project started by our Swedes too. I'm not sure what it is written in though
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00:48:52bluebrotherpixelma: maybe. dancer is written in C according to the homepage.
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01:50:06[Saint]bluebrother: Have you checked if that patch still applies by any chance?
01:50:59[Saint]If not, I'm tempted to have a look at it myself and see if I can sync it up. But iiuc the skin/list code has had a *major* overhaul since that patch was posted and it probably won't apply.
01:52:05[Saint]Hmmmm, 2008....yeah. It'd be an absolute miracle if it a: applies cleanly, b: applies at all, and c: actually works even if a or b are true.
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02:02:05JdGordonwhat patch?
02:04:21JdGordonah, inline settings :) yeah, that probably will still work with a bit of hand holding
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02:12:31[Saint]maybe you want to do the honours then.... nudge nudge ;)
02:12:48[Saint]Since, after all, it is *your* patch :P
02:14:16*[Saint] wants to figure out a way to conditionally move items in the menu to the top level if there's only one setting in the setting directory.
02:14:28[Saint](this happens in quite a few places on various targets)
02:14:57[Saint]A directory that only holds one setting seems rather pointless IMO
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02:16:10[Saint]iirc, a guy called seani (I think that was his nick, anyway) looked at doing exactly that...many moons ago, but if he got anywhere with it I don't think it ever made it to the tracker.
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03:03:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:14:33JdGordon[Saint]: when you get some time, could you do me an image strip with LARGE icons... 48x48 or something? doesnt need to be pretty or anything.
03:16:23[Saint]Yeah...iirc, bluebrother has some posted somewhere that he figured out how to generate from the tango source with some pretty cool script magic that I need to clean up manually, some resolutions turned out fin(ish) and others turned out garbage.
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03:16:54[Saint]But I should just be able to scale the one I have already and clean that up.
03:16:59JdGordonwithout giving too much away (*wink*) i need them to get the motivation to finish a patch
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09:14:24JdGordonyou dont need to reboot for the DB to work anymore?!
09:14:52JdGordon(using 3.8.1 build)
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09:22:13amiconnYou don't need to do so for a long time - if you have either dircache or db ramcache enabled. Otherwise you still do
09:26:00JoshuaChangdoes it possible to build android port in win32?
09:29:26JdGordonyou might need to build the c part seperatly but the java part should have no problems building in windows
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09:33:10JoshuaChangthe c part should be build under linux?
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09:47:20*pamaury sees Rockchip rk27xx code finally committed
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10:19:40bluebrother[Saint], JdGordon: you're referring to FS #11982, and I've posted some icon sets at my usual file dump (bluebrother">
10:19:41bluebrother-fs : FS #11982 : Script to create iconset from Tango icons
10:21:09 Quit Scromple_ (Quit: Gone)
10:21:11JdGordon64px might be too small though
10:21:13JdGordonand bmp :/
10:21:36JdGordongonna have major skin buffer issues with this
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10:25:11bluebrotherhmm, maybe I should commit that script to icons/ in svn?
10:45:54JdGordonis talking about moving to git on te agenda for the devcon?
10:46:06B4gderI think so
10:46:21JdGordoncan we ut a poll on the dev ml to see how many people actually dont want it?
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10:51:51*JdGordon goes ahead and does it...
10:51:56JdGordonI'm sick of git svn :D
10:54:45bluebrotherwhy? It works fine :)
11:00:45*JdGordon wonders if we'd expect more than 50 responses to a poll
11:01:54bluebrothernah, rather 5 :P
11:03:08JdGordon :)
11:04:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:05:29*bluebrother misses the "no, I'm fine with git-svn (or whatever DVCS conduit I'm using)
11:07:48[Saint]why do you say "and .bmp" :/
11:07:56bluebrotherwtf? I need to sign up?
11:08:03[Saint]there's not exactly an alternative, is there?
11:08:18JdGordon[Saint]: yeah i know... its just huge
11:08:21JdGordonbluebrother: arg, really?
11:08:31bluebrothersupporting png images (at least for large screen / RaaA) would be nice.
11:08:44*[Saint] nods
11:08:49bluebrotherJdGordon: well, it directs me to a "sign up now" page when I click submit.
11:09:16bluebrotherand it doesn't say anything that my vote had been collected, so I assume I have to sign up first.
11:09:24JdGordonthat means it went through
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11:09:29JdGordonyay shit free voting site :)
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11:10:33kugelpbluebrother: you still need an in-memory bmp representation of the png, to draw from
11:10:42bluebrotherok, any concerns about FS #12097?
11:10:43bluebrother-bot : Android: headphone detection (enabling pause on unplug) (type patches, status new)
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11:11:03bluebrotherkugelp: true, but my idea was to get the size on disk down. Think of :)
11:11:30bluebrotherthough it might not make that much of a difference, given that bmp should compress rather good (and I'm extracting those to the SD card)
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11:11:52bluebrotheryay, task status announcement works :)
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11:12:01[Saint]Nice ;)
11:12:32JdGordonstatus is pointless :)
11:13:15[Saint]bah! it looks all profession'n'shit ;D
11:13:21kugelppretty much
11:14:13bluebrotherwell, if someone mentiones a task that is already closed for whatever reason the status is somewhat interesting
11:14:46kugelpalthough I'm fine with git-svn I vote for git
11:14:54JdGordonFS #1 for example
11:14:55bluebrother-bot : uncompressed PCM recording (type feature, status closed)
11:17:53B4gderthe poll should probably also mention some other DVCSes
11:18:35B4gderas I believe at least one dev would prefer us to switch to another one =)
11:19:34*JdGordon is a lazy bugger :)
11:20:47bluebrotherit would also be interesting which DVCSes people use with Rockbox svn.
11:23:01bluebrothersomething like "which client do you use with Rockbox svn? svn, git-svn, hg, bzr"
11:23:11bluebrotherare there any others that can actually get used?
11:23:28B4gderdo hg and bzr actually make it convenient to use an svn repo?
11:23:29JdGordoncvs :)
11:23:55JdGordongiven the choice between hg and git I'd go git.... I have to use both at work and git is more convinient
11:24:02JdGordonalso a ton faster
11:24:10bluebrotherB4gder: no idea. Both can use svn (not sure about the state of hg, last time I looked syncing back was a problem) at least
11:25:32bluebrotherthe advantage of those two is that they (are said to) run better on Windows. Though I tried TortoiseGit recently and it became quite usable.
11:30:56*GodEater would like to congratulate all involved in not making this into a discussino on IRC ;)
11:31:21gevaertsGalois: what discussion? The one with git people pretending there is only one DVCS?
11:31:31gevaertsGodEater: ^^
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11:31:44*gevaerts apologises to Galois
11:32:01GodEatergevaerts: easy there tiger, there's only one person who's implied that!
11:32:08GodEaterI'm all for suggesting alternatives
11:32:17bluebrotherwhy? Isn't IRC a great place for discussions?
11:32:22gevaertsGodEater: *only one*? 99% of git advocates are like that!
11:32:36GodEatergevaerts: 99% of statistics are made up on the spot :)
11:33:17GodEaterI regard myself as somewhat in the git camp - but I'm quite happy to either stay with svn, or move to some other DVCS if that's the way the wind blows.
11:35:10GodEaterI also think it's a mistake to imply we'll make some sort of firm decision about this at devcon, since a lot of devs won't actually be able to make it there
11:35:18GodEaterby all means discuss it
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11:38:00linuxstbHas someone come up with a workable solution to the lack of consecutive revision numbers in git?
11:38:42JdGordondo we really need it?
11:38:44B4gderI have a solution I think is good enough
11:38:56B4gderbut I don't know what others would consider good enough
11:39:01JdGordonthe buildbot could inject a number into the builds
11:39:22Tornecounting commits probably works as long as you are careful
11:39:32Torneand yes, i think it is really needed :)
11:39:46linuxstbBut then there's the problem of going the other way
11:39:52Tornelinuxstb: Well yes
11:39:56JdGordonwe dont need to count every commit, just the ones made avilable by the build system
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11:41:26bluebrotherwhy do we need to count commits? Just use the hash plus the timestamp of the commit
11:41:45Tornebluebrother: moderately user-hostile
11:41:57Torneand kinda conflicts with our current scheme with build dates
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11:42:02bluebrotherTorne: as long as it's only moderate ;-)
11:42:10Torne(what does the version number look like for someone who does their own build on a different date?)_
11:42:15bluebrotheraren't the build dates kinda pointless anyway?
11:42:42TorneI suspect people who do their own builds (but are not developers) would disagree
11:43:07TorneI may be wrong
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11:44:47bluebrothermost of the time builds are identified by the revision number, so I don't think the build date is important (are people actually aware it's a date and it's not the version date but the build date?)
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11:45:09Tornebluebrother: there's kinda three categories of people, is my point
11:45:21Tornethere's people who install our buildbot builds
11:45:33Torneand they probably care about the revision number to see how far "behind" they are and to compare versions etc
11:45:51Tornethere's people who just build svn maybe with a patch or two
11:46:10Torneand there's.. us, who generally know what's in a given thing anyway
11:49:08Tornei would tend to think the build date is useful to people who build it themselves
11:49:20Tornebecause otherwise builds they do may just all be r12345M
11:50:37bluebrotherhmm. You've got a point, but I think it's a corner case. For them we could provide some means to include either the build date again, or add an additional prefix / postfix (like the linux kernel does)
11:51:18Torneright, but including a *second* date is kinda yucky
11:51:56bluebrotherin that case dropping the commit date might be ok −− we still have the hash to identify the commit
11:52:09GodEaterdo other DVCS systems mitigate this for us?
11:52:22TorneGodEater: Other systems typically have a revision number which is monotonically increasing :)
11:52:43Torneso we could just keep doing it exactly as we do now
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11:53:22Tornegit insists on not having this feature because you can't easily make it guaranteed to work for everyone in all possible situations
11:53:33Tornebut it does work for everyone who is doing sensible things ;)
11:54:22bluebrotherdepending on what you consider sensible things ;-)
11:54:40Torneit's really not that ambiguous generally :)
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12:32:16*GodEater is off to a jolly posh burleque evening on Thursday night
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12:48:07Tornerepeating what i just posted to the list: if you are coming to devcon please make sure your name is on the list of attendees as I need to get passes and stuff for you all
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13:03:46JdGordonerrr.... how do you use images in the wps?
13:04:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:09:04*JdGordon grumbles at the skin code
13:12:33JdGordon\o/ victory is mine
13:13:39bluebrotherJdGordon: did you write the skin code (or at least major parts of it)?
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13:14:50*JdGordon has grid iconed lists working
13:15:18JdGordonmy demo sbs looks shit so ill make it a bit nicer before posting a screenshot
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13:27:55JdGordonladies and gentlemen......
13:28:14JdGordonthat is the skin drawing the main menu on a e200-sim
13:28:31JdGordonthe rockbox logo is the current selection (havnt put more effort into it yet)
13:28:36n1scool, what does the "Database" at the bottom mean?
13:28:49JdGordonanother place showing the actual selection
13:29:11JdGordoneach of those items uses 2 viewports to do the drawing
13:29:58gevaertsJdGordon: nice!
13:31:29JdGordonwith not too much effort I expect to be able to use a tile for the main menu or settings and lists elsewhere
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13:49:52JdGordonFS #12124 - not quite ready for inclusion yet but far enough for people to start playing and let me know what needs adding to make it more useful
13:49:52bluebrother-bot : draw lists using skin engine (type patches, status new)
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15:04:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:10:32JdGordonhow would people feel about me adding some drawing primatives to the skin engine?
15:10:46JdGordoni.e to be able to draw a line and rectangle
15:17:19JdGordon <- better demo pic
15:17:34JdGordonthe red hilighting of the current item is having two images draw over eachother
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15:29:06JdGordonwhile I'm talking to myself.... any thoughts on FS #11925?
15:29:06bluebrother-bot : Add a proper &quot;current screen&quot; system (type patches, status new)
15:29:31 Quit krazykit (Quit: @_@)
15:37:42JdGordonI want to add a new enum value for (pretty much) each gui screen... what should i prefix it with? SCREEN_ is taken for SCREEN_MAIN and SCREEN_REMOTE so i don't want to use it
15:38:13JdGordonsee the first part of the diff at
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15:47:22n1sJdGordon: it sounds like a good idea but i don't make themes so i don't really know what it means
15:48:09JdGordonwell, I'm going to commit this, more wondering what to name the enum values
15:48:37n1si don't like the WINDOW* one
15:49:05n1si guess GUI_SCREEN is clearest but a bit long
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18:00:30sideraljhMikeS: Have you seen FS #12132 <> - tagnavi: Support "basename" in formats and conditions; replace <Untagged> in track views?
18:02:21 Quit Judas_PhD (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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18:06:33preglowany dudes with a rooted htc legend here?
18:06:36preglow /cry
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18:10:33Blue_DudeI just wanted to throw FS #12126 out there. It's a bug report on crossfade function that isn't a bug. I propose to change the Shuffle mode to only crossfade if the track change is automatic. There's already another mode that would handle manual shuffle changes. Ideas?
18:10:34bluebrother-bot : Crossfade On Manual Track Change In Shuffle Only Mode of Crossfade (bugs, unconfirmed)
18:14:16bluebrotherpreglow: I think kugelp has a Legend
18:14:35preglowkugelp: ahoyhoy?
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18:27:24preglowi just knew this shit would be problematic
18:32:31kugelppreglow: whats up
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18:36:46preglowkugelp: i just can't goddamn downgrade the firmware to 1.31
18:36:56preglowkugelp: just wondering if you had any trouble at all
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18:44:22kugelpreglow: sorry, no battery anymore, I'm at home in an hour
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18:56:21jhMikeSsideral: no, I have not.
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18:58:10jhMikeSto whom it may concern: I think I'm going to have to make a minor pcm driver tweak to support double-buffering for downmix (it means adding one function call at the low level in the ISR to make mixing and DMA go in parallel)
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19:19:35jhMikeSfrom the mixer
19:20:01jhMikeSmany channels -> fewer channels
19:28:29preglowlow latency? :>
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19:32:22jhMikeSfor the things that play simultaneously. I guess it partly moves in that direction though.
19:33:24jhMikeSat least things not playing while music is paused will just go away and response is more immediate
19:34:04jhMikeSit's already going, the rest is work out thing aesthetically and move the fading over there
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19:37:20jhMikeSand this is the state right now:">
19:37:57jhMikeSother than the sim, I have no idea how the app builds will tolerate it (they perhaps could use the native facilities instead)
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20:00:35Blue_DudejhMikeS: \o/
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20:15:41kugelppreglow: here now
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20:48:22preglowkugelp: nvm mate, got it working
20:48:35preglowjust cyanogens wiki pages who were as wikilike as they usually are
20:48:37preglowand confusing as shit
20:49:05preglowthe routine that is spammed all over the page doesn't work for my bootloader version, a fact that is noted on the very bottom of the page
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21:14:05Ngaraahello anyone hlep me..
21:15:46krazykitonly if you actually ask a question
21:16:12NgaraaHow to restart Dell Inspiron mini 10 HDD password.?
21:16:49krazykitthat has nothing to do with rockbox
21:17:27krazykitthe pages you find about locked hard drives was in relation to archos devices, not devices in general
21:18:01n1swe really should get rid of that page
21:19:25NgaraaI try to download atapwd.exe from but error. can't download.
21:20:22 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
21:20:48n1sNgaraa: yes, we knowm it's gone
21:21:36Ngaraaso how can i that? help me pls.
21:21:43krazykiti thought there was a big warning on the tops of those pages saying it's only for archos devices
21:22:24krazykitNgaraa, atapwd.exe will not help you. it only helped in certain specific circumstances with archos devices
21:22:48n1syeah, it only helps if you *know the password*
21:22:56n1sand we don't have it
21:25:11saratogaBagder: could you take down this page:
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21:44:23CIA-58New commit by nls (r29937): Accept FS #12136: Save some binsize in tagtree.c. Thanks to sideral for testing.
21:44:25bluebrother-bot Save some binsize in tagtree.c (patches, new)
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21:46:17kugelpreglow: glad you got it working
21:47:57kugelSlasheri: ping
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21:48:39CIA-58r29937 build result: All green
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21:50:24jhMikeSkugel: why does pcm-android call the callback from pcm_play_dma_init ? can't we avoid that since it's rather unexpected behavior.
21:50:52bluebrotherI'm planning to commit FS #11982. Any objections? I'll place it into icons/
21:50:53bluebrother-bot Script to create iconset from Tango icons (patches, new)
21:51:20kugeljhMikeS: sure, I didn't have a special reason to add it other than "perhaps get some initial data"
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21:51:33kugelis it a bad thing to do?
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21:52:50jhMikeScould be since things really should only expect it when calling pcm_play_data and during the interrupt
21:53:49jhMikeSreally I wouldn't expect it to obtain anything since the callback would be null at that point anyway
21:54:17kugelremove it it you like to :)
21:54:49 Quit bluebrother-bot (Client Quit)
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21:55:15jhMikeSkugel: do you see any problems sending small frames?
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21:55:36kugeljhMikeS: what do you mean?
21:55:57bluebrotherregardless of the color I'm considering FS #11982.
21:55:58bluebrother-bot Script to create iconset from Tango icons (patches, new)
21:55:59jhMikeSfor the mixer it would be 256 samples usually, but can be defined differently if the target requires it
21:56:40kugelwhat do you mean by "sending"?
21:57:53jhMikeSto give to the audio device to play, the number of samples for each audio callback
21:58:04kugelandroid has minimum buffer sizes (several KB usually) which need to be adhered to
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21:59:05jhMikeSsure it should be fine then, it'll just get it 256 at a time by default
22:00:08jhMikeSI guess, until it gets enough for the minimum. this works on the sim just fine
22:00:11*bluebrother mumbles something about FS #12134
22:00:12bluebrother-bot Android: install codecs as native libs instead of extracting them from (patches, new)
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22:02:40jhMikeSdoes SetByteArrayRegion automatically output the audio when it fills?
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22:03:43bluebrotherhmm, a FS #3037 would be nice
22:03:44bluebrother-bot Gif Viewer (patches, new)
22:06:08 Join Blue_Dude [0] (~chatzilla@rockbox/developer/Blue-Dude)
22:06:41Blue_DudeI made a post earlier today about this. Any objections to changing the behavior of shuffle crossfade to only crossfade on automatic track changes?
22:06:47kugeljhMikeS: no, just fills a java byte[] array
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22:07:45kugelI don't understand it myself, but the only way to write audio data is via java arrays, no native types
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22:09:44jhMikeSwho's the reader?
22:10:10preglowkugel: cyanogemod seems sweet indeed
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22:10:18preglowlooking forward to trying rockbox on it
22:10:50kugeljhMikeS: "reader"? the pcm callback is called from (when it returns, the java code does write() to the hardware)
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22:17:54kugelthe pcm system needs some rewrite, it doesn't work properly for many people
22:18:04kugel(the one on android I mean)
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22:19:20jhMikeSI see, the PCM listener handles it
22:21:17jhMikeShmmm...maybe. what's attempting to be done here is produce a new future PCM frame in the mixer callback while at the same time playing the previously created one
22:22:35kugelwrite() blocks so I guess it doesn't work
22:22:38Joshi1400Hi, I have problems unzipping the I am told that RockboxUtility.exe is secured by a password. What should I do?
22:22:58jhMikeSif there's enough latency already, true parallelism probably isn't needed
22:23:04 Quit Blue_Dude (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
22:23:41jhMikeSbasically you'd just get one mixer frame of latency instead
22:24:49jhMikeS*in addition
22:26:13n1sJoshi1400: that probably means the zip file is corrupted somehow, try downloading it again
22:27:16Joshi1400Thx, I'll try.
22:32:39 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:40:08 Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
22:40:09bluebrotherJoshi1400: (1) there is no file, (2) the archive is not protected in any way.
22:40:21bluebrotherwhere did you get that archive?
22:41:34Joshi1400I've got it from
22:41:52bluebrotherthen it shouldn't have that _001 in the filename
22:43:26bluebrothermaybe we should also publish md5sums in the download table. Hmm.
22:43:32Joshi1400It was the 2nd downlowd of that file and Windows added the suffix.
22:44:18 Quit esperegu (Remote host closed the connection)
22:47:12preglownice, now rockbox doesn't work at all :]
22:47:39bluebrotherpreglow: wasn't that the plan? ;-)
22:48:00preglowinfinite amounts of fun and tinkering was the plan, and non-working software certainly adds to it
22:48:21bluebrotherworking on Android?
22:49:48preglowyep, got cyanogenmod in
22:49:54preglowand i like it a lot so far
22:50:07 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:50:09preglowthe translation is shit, but i'm used to that in open source software
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22:50:34Joshi1400Also the 3rd and 4th download won't unzip. Thx so far. I've to quit now. I'll give it another try tomorrow.
22:50:59bluebrotherJoshi1400: maybe some anti virus program that corrupts the zip file?
22:52:04Joshi1400Good idea. I'll try it with deactivated Kaspersky. But not today. Bye
22:52:04bluebrotheralso, I would recommend using a real zip tool like 7zip instead of thie Windows "compressed folders" thing
22:52:36Joshi1400PS: I'm using 7zip and nothing else ;-)
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23:08:23kugeljhMikeS: is audio_get_buffer() safe to be called before audio or voice is initialized?
23:08:31CIA-58New commit by bluebrother (r29938): Add script to create iconset (FS #11982). ...
23:08:32bluebrother-bot Script to create iconset from Tango icons (patches, new)
23:12:10bluebrotherthere is a NDK related warning when building for Android: the NDK defines swap16 and swap32, and the Rockbox code does as well. Should we simply #undef the NDK ones (as we do with other macros that conflict with SDL?
23:12:26CIA-58r29938 build result: 123 errors, 0 warnings (bluebrother committed)
23:13:20bluebrothernice error: "file class ELFCLASS64 incompatible with ELFCLASS32"
23:14:28kugelbluebrother: doesn't really matter I'd say
23:15:08jhMikeSkugel: hmmm...iirc it was meant to be but I'll double check that
23:15:15 Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !)
23:16:19CIA-58New commit by bluebrother (r29939): Android: ignore swap16 and swap32 from NDK. ...
23:16:20kugeldo you need to "free" what you got with it?
23:16:33*kugel wants to get rid of some direct audiobuf accesses
23:17:30jhMikeSkugel: yeah, it just returns the buffer since it starts out "trashed"
23:21:20CIA-58r29939 build result: All green
23:22:15jhMikeSone optimization with this mixer is that the voice only needs it's own pcm buffer, not the actual whole pcm buffer to be initialized. I was hoping this buflib thing could make it more efficient and effective.
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23:26:19CIA-58New commit by bluebrother (r29940): Android: install codecs as native libs instead of extracting them (FS #12134). ...
23:26:20bluebrother-bot Android: install codecs as native libs instead of extracting them from (patches, new)
23:29:13 Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:30:36jhMikeSkugel: is it possible to do a real audio callback lockout?
23:31:09kugeljhMikeS: what do you mean?
23:31:28 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:31:31CIA-58r29940 build result: All green
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23:33:06jhMikeSkugel: actually implement pcm_play_lock/unlock. synchronization at certain points in more urgent than it is now
23:33:53kugeljhMikeS: I wrote this thing with very little knowledge. I didn't understand (nor I claim I do now) understand what these are supposed to do
23:34:47pixelmacould this cause the audio stalls some people are experiencing?
23:35:01pixelmaon Android that is
23:35:05jhMikeSthey need balanced calls, and when lock is called, the audio callback is guaranteed to not be called and change the state of things
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23:36:39jhMikeSpixelma: it's possible, but pcm is pretty slow on the callbacks right now
23:38:09jhMikeSthis work uncovered a bug with setting the coldfire IMR that wasn't following the manual's recommendations, due to the frame frequency
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23:41:15kugeljhMikeS: so grabbing a host mutex should work?
23:41:22kugel(pthread mutex)
23:44:59jhMikeSbasically what the SDL does
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23:55:33jhMikeShrm...looks like the SDL one is being used improperly
23:56:58 Join t0rc [0] (~t0rc@unaffiliated/t0rc/x-5233201)
23:57:25jhMikeSit's not necessarily a mutex, it might be one, but can be driver implemented

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