| 00:00:21 | kugel | this is the main aspect of buflib, to reduce fragmentation |
| 00:01:11 | sideral | Because (1) their allocation is mostly static / init-time only, (2) dealing with moving data is hard / complex for them, and (3) the benefits for the system are likely minor. |
| 00:01:40 | sideral | I think it's better to tolerate some fragmentation if at all possible |
| 00:01:59 | kugel | the benefit doesn't depend on (for example) dircache, but what's hapenning around it |
| 00:02:16 | kugel | if something is freed before dircache, the hole wants to be filed |
| 00:03:01 | | Join bug2000 [0] (~bug@unaffiliated/bug2000) |
| 00:03:33 | sideral | One idea that crossed my mind: Would it make sense to simply hand out buffer space to clients in fixed-size chunks (regions, arenas) and let the clients do the entire high-level alloc management themselves, possibly with the help of a lib? That would always allocate/free big chunks (at the expense of some internal fragmentation), and no data would ever have to be moved around. Could the audio / codec code deal with multiple noncontiguous big ch |
| 00:03:43 | pixelma | sideral: I didn't see freqmod talking too often in the other channel (though that's a bit in this channel's nature) anyway but thought he would read it from time to time |
| 00:03:55 | bug2000 | sideral: I found it! I think. |
| 00:04:03 | pixelma | so I guess it needs a bit of patience |
| 00:04:30 | sideral | pixelma: OK, thanks for your efforts! |
| 00:04:50 | kugel | freeing (always) creates holes, no matter how you do the allocation |
| 00:05:12 | bug2000 | sideral: I think I know how to reproduce it. |
| 00:05:49 | sideral | bug2000: cool! shall I reopen the FS task? |
| 00:06:02 | bug2000 | sideral: Ya. |
| 00:06:18 | bug2000 | sideral: I believe you can reproduce it by deleting a file using Rockbox. |
| 00:06:32 | bug2000 | Or at least thats how I think I've done it. |
| 00:08:06 | sideral | bug2000: OK, I've reopened FS #12129 <http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12129>. I'm keen on seeing what you found! :) |
| 00:08:07 | bluebrother-bot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12129 Duplicate database entries (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 00:08:30 | kugel | sideral: I'm not sure what your suggestion achieves what a dumb malloc doesn't |
| 00:10:08 | sideral | kugel: The idea is that there wouldn't be any external fragmentation: One module cannot fragment the memory allocated to another |
| 00:10:51 | kugel | but each free would leave a "big chunk" hole |
| 00:11:44 | kugel | and big chunks are almost always a memory waste |
| 00:11:49 | bug2000 | kugel: Off the record, I love eating Kugel. |
| 00:12:01 | sideral | No, each high-level free would leave a hole inside the module's arena. The the lowest level, the arena can only deallocated as a whole |
| 00:13:18 | sideral | Yes, each module wastes whatever it cannot use of its chunk. But at the lowest level, there wouldn't be any fragmentation from small allocations |
| 00:13:48 | sideral | s/The the/At the/ |
| 00:13:49 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 00:13:51 | kugel | fragmentation from small allocs is better than that from big chunks :) |
| 00:14:25 | kugel | no, we cannot afford wasting memory on big chunks, really |
| 00:14:41 | sideral | Not if you can tolerate noncontiguous big chunks in memory-hungry clients, which is my question actually |
| 00:14:58 | kugel | buffering can't handle that, no |
| 00:15:54 | sideral | To me it seemed like a smaller change than making dircache and tagcache fit for moving allocations |
| 00:16:56 | bug2000 | sideral: Firefox found a time to die. |
| 00:16:56 | sideral | Clients only needing small allocations could also share their arenas, reducing memory waste |
| 00:17:12 | bug2000 | sideral: Basically, delete a file using Rockbox firmware. The duplication should happen if I got it right. |
| 00:17:34 | sideral | bug2000: Do you have the dircache enabled? |
| 00:17:55 | kugel | sideral: there's still not negible waste on big chucks. you know we have targets with less than 2MB memory (and 400k audio buffer) |
| 00:17:58 | bug2000 | sideral: Where is that in the options? |
| 00:18:08 | sideral | bug2000: Is it the file that you deleted that will get duplicated? |
| 00:18:20 | kugel | and adding support to holes, which are even externally created, to buffering could easily double its code size |
| 00:18:27 | bug2000 | sideral: It's EVERYTHING that gets duplicated. |
| 00:19:01 | sideral | bug2000: dircache is in general settings -> system -> disk |
| 00:19:26 | kugel | btw, if anyone knows how to reduce this Makefile rules to one, I'm all ears: http://pastie.org/2045037 |
| 00:19:51 | sideral | bug2000: can you make a backup of your database files for me, with a small example file set? Perhaps you can reproduce this with a simulator? |
| 00:19:53 | | Quit ender` (Quit: Little expense had been spared to create the impression that no expense had been spared.) |
| 00:20:35 | bug2000 | sideral: I see no "disk" there. |
| 00:20:36 | sideral | kugel: OK, it was only an idea. Moving allocations in a C program frighten me :) |
| 00:20:56 | bug2000 | sideral: Sure, just link me to a download link for the linux sansa clipv1. |
| 00:20:59 | kugel | you surely need to be careful |
| 00:21:03 | bug2000 | I can't really firefox right now but I can wget. |
| 00:21:39 | kugel | the ability for non-movable buffers is actually only meant for the audio buffer, not the other allocs |
| 00:21:48 | sideral | bug2000: Ah, the ClipV1 doesn't support dircache AFAIK |
| 00:22:10 | bug2000 | sideral: Then no dir cache :P |
| 00:23:11 | sideral | bug2000: I can't cut you a sim build right now (need to leave in a few minutes). I'm not sure, perhaps we offer sim builds on our web site? |
| 00:23:25 | bug2000 | sideral: Firefox is broken :P |
| 00:24:13 | sideral | bug2000: Use konqueror, links, or any other browser? |
| 00:24:26 | bug2000 | Yey w3m :P |
| 00:25:35 | bug2000 | bah, w32 file >.> |
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| 00:34:27 | | Quit liar__ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:37:57 | sideral | kugel: Look up "pattern rules" in the GNU Make info file |
| 00:37:58 | | Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:40:25 | bug2000 | Yey. Firefox is back. |
| 00:42:00 | kugel | sideral: I have such a rule |
| 00:42:31 | kugel | http://pastie.org/2045110 is the complete makefile |
| 00:43:01 | kugel | the pattern rule seems to not work for test_*.c and main.c since they're always remade |
| 00:43:31 | sideral | kugel: That pattern rule is for compilation, not linking |
| 00:44:05 | bug2000 | sideral: I fail to find the linux simulator. |
| 00:44:08 | sideral | I thought you wanted to remove the redundancy from the link rules? |
| 00:44:44 | kugel | sideral: I don't know how to setup a pattern rule for linking (the binaries have no extension) and it doesn't work for all C files |
| 00:44:45 | sideral | bug2000: Do you feel comfortable compiling your own? It's not difficult. |
| 00:44:58 | bug2000 | sideral: Ya, I'm ok with compiling. |
| 00:46:13 | sideral | bug2000: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UiSimulator |
| 00:47:46 | sideral | kugel: The pattern would be like: % : %.o : $(LIB) |
| 00:48:40 | sideral | and then the command can refer to $@, $<, $^ in the usual fashion. And $* returns the string that was matched |
| 00:49:58 | kugel | I don't get how % works. what does it match? |
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| 00:50:53 | bug2000 | sideral: svn co sure takes time. |
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| 00:54:47 | kugel | also makes implicit rules confuse me |
| 00:55:03 | kugel | it's making stuff with rules I never declared |
| 00:55:26 | sideral | bug2000: we also have a git mirror: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GitVersionControl#The_public_Rockbox_git_repository |
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| 00:56:23 | sideral | kugel: Well, you seem to have specified at least some nonexisting target that Make thinks it can synthesize |
| 00:57:32 | bug2000 | sideral: WAHH. It's REALLY late. |
| 00:58:08 | sideral | bug2000: Take your time. I need to go offline anyway shortly |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:28 | kugel | sideral: :? |
| 01:00:57 | kugel | how does % work? how does it know which .o files are meant with %.o? |
| 01:02:32 | kugel | ah the all: $(TARGETS) confuses it |
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| 01:07:11 | sideral | kugel: I don't quite remember and would have to RTFM. I think it deduces from the targets it needs to make −− or did you have to specify after the second colon (and dependencies belong into separate dependency rules)? It's late... :) |
| 01:10:33 | kugel | got it down, I think |
| 01:10:45 | kugel | now* |
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| 03:36:24 | jhMikeS | Do we consider it kosher to delete posts with attachments someone says are "bad"? |
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| 03:41:22 | JdGordon | bad how? (in the forum you mean?) |
| 03:43:10 | jhMikeS | in flyspray |
| 03:44:03 | jhMikeS | some bum patches posted in 12021 for the VGM codec |
| 03:50:28 | JdGordon | yeah, delete them |
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| 04:16:43 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@124-197-3-117.callplus.net.nz) |
| 04:20:51 | Fangs | Hey can someone tell me if buying a new ipod just to put linux on it is reasonable? |
| 04:21:26 | Fangs | Also is there full functionality with rockbox's linux like any other computer with linux on it? |
| 04:21:44 | kisak | umm ... while linux is simular to rockbox, it is not related to rockbox |
| 04:22:18 | Fangs | k |
| 04:22:19 | Fangs | :) |
| 04:22:32 | | Quit [7] (Disconnected by services) |
| 04:22:33 | [Saint] | what is this "linux" of which you speak? |
| 04:22:35 | JdGordon | http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFQQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdaniel.haxx.se%2Fblog%2F2008%2F11%2F28%2Frockbox-is-not-linux%2F&ei=43_xTf3OCcup0AGehIm6BA&usg=AFQjCNHbHNDYyT0967lEnr7d28YdruniIA&sig2=rQf15O07Nrno9XBmIp1WqQ |
| 04:22:38 | Fangs | but would I be able to screw around with kernels |
| 04:22:39 | | Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 04:22:42 | JdGordon | dammit |
| 04:22:42 | [Saint] | Rockbox != linux |
| 04:22:46 | JdGordon | http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2008/11/28/rockbox-is-not-linux |
| 04:23:21 | kisak | also, as far as I know, ipodlinux has not been ported to anything newer than the ipod v5 (ipod video) |
| 04:23:29 | Fangs | oh |
| 04:23:52 | [Saint] | Rockbox is Rockbox, Linux is Linux....you're you, I'm me, etc. ;) |
| 04:24:21 | Fangs | but it is italics right? |
| 04:24:34 | Fangs | well it sonds legal enough to me |
| 04:25:09 | * | [Saint] fails to parse the statement. |
| 04:25:29 | Fangs | at the same time I think I'm too fresh to do this solo |
| 04:26:07 | [Saint] | Yes, there is a functional Rockbox port for the iPod Classic, no, it's not Linux. The port is classed as "Unusable" at this stage, however, this does not mean that it's *actually* unusable. |
| 04:26:30 | [Saint] | It's very usable in fact, it just doesn't yet meet the criteria for "Unstable". |
| 04:27:27 | Fangs | well this seems useful. it's not exactly what I was thinking it was, but |
| 04:27:32 | Fangs | jailbreaking just seems so restrictive |
| 04:27:38 | Fangs | irony? |
| 04:28:04 | kisak | jailbreaking? |
| 04:28:19 | kisak | how is jailbreaking related to rockbox? |
| 04:28:51 | Fangs | Rockbox is related to ipods |
| 04:28:55 | [Saint] | Presently, installation requires the use of a third party loader (seperate from Rockbox) called emCORE. The installation is straightforward, however there is no dual-boot, so you will lose the ability to use the Apple firmware (this can be undone, though), and installation also requires formatting the device completely so you'll lose anything that isn't backed up. |
| 04:28:59 | Fangs | older ipods, but ipods none the less |
| 04:29:07 | Fangs | o |
| 04:29:27 | [Saint] | Also, there's some issues with USB for some people, and battery life is somewhat reduced compared to the OF. |
| 04:29:48 | Fangs | well it'd be a bare device so Im not worried |
| 04:31:00 | kisak | Fangs: jailbreaking is something you do with iOS devices, rockbox has not been ported to those devices |
| 04:31:19 | [Saint] | http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation <−− All you'll need to know re: installing emCORE & Rockbox on the iPod Classic |
| 04:31:59 | Fangs | alright Im thinking it over, yeah I was going to buy the newest. My ipod video has been smashed to bits and disassembled for parts |
| 04:32:23 | Fangs | not so sure about the rockbox anymore |
| 04:32:33 | Fangs | what else is rockbox |
| 04:32:34 | Fangs | ? |
| 04:32:51 | [Saint] | What? |
| 04:33:09 | [Saint] | WHat on earth do you mean "what else is it"? |
| 04:33:10 | kisak | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WhyRockbox |
| 04:33:13 | [Saint] | *What |
| 04:33:58 | Fangs | since im here and Im not sure I want to buy an old ipod |
| 04:34:13 | [Saint] | There's quite literally no alternative....so, if you want to buy a Classic, and you don't want to use the original Apple firmware....Rockbox is the only choice. |
| 04:34:25 | [Saint] | The other choice is being happy with the Apple firmware. |
| 04:35:05 | Fangs | which is cool in it's own right. Niche and all, looking through all the programs |
| 04:35:19 | kisak | alternatively I'd recommend a 4 GB Sansa Fuze and stick a 16GB microSD card in it, to total 20GB overall |
| 04:36:17 | kisak | you can get the player for $35 or less usually |
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| 04:36:38 | Fangs | cool cool, im using a 2nd gen nano with a cracked screen and a partially nonfunctional scroll wheel, so really anything would be an upgrade |
| 04:36:45 | Fangs | considering the options.... |
| 04:38:14 | Fangs | looks nice and cheaper |
| 04:39:41 | Fangs | ooh crossfader you guys are great :D |
| 04:39:47 | kisak | the only thing about those Fuze models is that the screen cover is quite thin, it's worth the $4 to get a shell to stick the player in |
| 04:40:14 | Fangs | yeah I've got a problem with that |
| 04:40:26 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 04:40:41 | Fangs | fall once and it's like $300 gone in seconds |
| 04:41:10 | kisak | how do you lose $300 on a $35 player? |
| 04:41:42 | Fangs | the ipod videos weren't cheap |
| 04:41:46 | [Saint] | betting on it to win the Kentucky Derby? ;) |
| 04:42:07 | Fangs | at some point, even though it probably made for 30 |
| 04:42:09 | kisak | also, I've dropped my iPod classic a couple of times over the last couple years |
| 04:42:21 | Fangs | yeah but I had a phone in my pocket as well |
| 04:42:25 | kisak | the hardcase has protected it well enough |
| 04:42:37 | Fangs | the screen went crunch against the other screen |
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| 04:45:55 | Fangs | Alright well im off |
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| 06:26:45 | JdGordon | [Saint]: whats the latest on the theme? |
| 06:26:56 | JdGordon | I skimmed the logs but didnt see much happening |
| 06:30:27 | [Saint] | I've not had a lot of time to work on it presently. |
| 06:30:48 | [Saint] | I'm poking at a WIP presently that removes the tabs (but still retains the functionality) |
| 06:31:13 | JdGordon | change the tabs to something that looks more "buttony" and should be fine |
| 06:31:51 | | Quit kugel_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 06:32:14 | [Saint] | I'm removing them completely. Right now, the plan of action is to launch the context popup with the current track text, and the volume popup with the volume icon. |
| 06:32:54 | [Saint] | it'd be kinda handy if the touch area "none" respected */&....it seems it doesn't? |
| 06:33:25 | [Saint] | Oh....that's right, I also need to poke at the source to get %cs working. |
| 06:33:53 | [Saint] | (well, it works...just the "playlist" and "ptichscreen" values don't display) |
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| 06:35:16 | [Saint] | I'll poke you as soon as I've got something I feel is worth testing. |
| 06:35:45 | JdGordon | its 4 lines of code :) |
| 06:35:58 | JdGordon | oh, you mean the skin? |
| 06:36:16 | [Saint] | Yeah...I know, I've just not had the time for much/any Rb hacking over the past week or so. |
| 06:36:27 | [Saint] | Real life keeps getting in the way :P |
| 06:36:37 | JdGordon | damn real life! |
| 06:36:45 | [Saint] | And yeah, I did mean the theme. |
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| 09:48:00 | bug2000 | This is one annoying bug. I was able to reproduce it last night and now I can't. |
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| 10:01:06 | sideral | I'm feeling with you, bug2000. I'm following several of those on our tracker :) |
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| 10:01:58 | bug2000 | sideral: It's just WEIRD. |
| 10:02:04 | sideral | One suggestion: log your experiments (changes, actions, and observations) to a text file. |
| 10:02:35 | [Saint] | "Reason for closing: PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!" ;) |
| 10:03:07 | sideral | bug2000: Perhaps it only triggers if you delete a file that was previously tracked by the database? |
| 10:03:18 | [Saint] | I'm sure that'd get rid of a lot of the open bugs on the tracker :P |
| 10:04:07 | bug2000 | sideral: Pretty sure I did generate a new database for it to work with. |
| 10:05:33 | sideral | bug2000: If it's a Heisenbug, you must look away to allow it to happen :) |
| 10:13:23 | [Saint] | forum admins: tinajane wants a ban. |
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| 10:42:21 | * | GodEater prods @ torne with a stick |
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| 11:56:35 | Torne | GodEater: hi |
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| 12:15:08 | GodEater | I've got the details of that VM |
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| 13:26:51 | bug2000 | Why are the list and home button on the fuze reversed? |
| 13:28:32 | Torne | reversed compared to what? |
| 13:28:49 | Torne | we generally don't care about the original firmware's behaviour, and prefer to make button mappings mroe or less consistent across rockbox instead |
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| 15:11:27 | Torne | ALL COMMITTERS: if you haven't put your email into the spreadsheet yet, please do so ASAP. If you don't know what I'm talking about, PM me for a link :) |
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| 15:44:33 | GodEater | Torne: have you managed to get the import working at full speed now? |
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| 15:44:56 | Torne | GodEater: I have it working how we will want it to work, we just need the author mapping |
| 15:45:01 | Torne | Speed is another matter |
| 15:45:05 | GodEater | \o/ |
| 15:45:07 | Torne | but i don't really care |
| 15:45:11 | Torne | my server can just sit and churn |
| 15:45:17 | GodEater | well I was warned that box was slow |
| 15:45:23 | Torne | I'm not doing it on porpoise |
| 15:45:26 | Torne | i'm doing it on my server |
| 15:45:31 | GodEater | oh ok |
| 15:45:34 | Torne | i'll just send a tarball over when it's done |
| 15:45:39 | Torne | my machien is way faster indeed :) |
| 15:45:54 | GodEater | can we not give this task to preglow? |
| 15:46:00 | Torne | hm? |
| 15:46:02 | GodEater | who has the most ninja server evar? |
| 15:46:08 | Torne | It won't help a lot |
| 15:46:14 | Torne | It's not that slow. |
| 15:46:23 | Torne | I expect it will take well under 24 hours :) |
| 15:46:28 | Torne | so fuck it |
| 15:46:38 | Torne | i jsut need the author mapping, is the thing |
| 15:46:45 | GodEater | where's the bottle neck then? |
| 15:46:49 | Torne | er |
| 15:46:52 | Torne | hashing stuff, i expect |
| 15:47:04 | Torne | so it's probably down to single-core performance |
| 15:47:16 | Torne | and my server has reasonably fast/modern cores |
| 15:47:29 | Torne | you probably can't manage to go more than *twice* as quick, so who cares. |
| 15:47:36 | GodEater | isn't it still running minecraft too ? ;) |
| 15:47:43 | Torne | i have multiple cores |
| 15:47:46 | Torne | minecraft can use the others ;) |
| 15:47:53 | GodEater | lol |
| 15:48:23 | Torne | i'm looking at setting gerrit up on the machine while i wait to see if anyone else is going to fill in the trix |
| 15:48:34 | Torne | we can decide what to do about people who haven't responded at some point |
| 15:49:20 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 15:49:23 | Torne | gah, why does the headless JRE still depend on cups and freetype |
| 15:49:39 | kugel | the server of my lecturer is pretty fast, 8 core |
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| 15:49:57 | Torne | git doesn't parallelise much/atall |
| 15:50:00 | Torne | so hey. |
| 15:52:37 | kugel | Zagor: did you do anything w.r.t to android in the build system since devcon? |
| 15:52:51 | kugel | still getting the sdk version error |
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| 16:00:35 | Zagor | kugel: you mean other than add it? |
| 16:00:45 | Zagor | http://build.rockbox.org/shownewlog.cgi?rev=29991;type=android480x800 |
| 16:01:04 | kugel | hm |
| 16:01:11 | kugel | why do I still get the sdk error? |
| 16:01:34 | Zagor | are you sure your build client has the path set up correctly? |
| 16:01:45 | kugel | yes |
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| 16:03:09 | kugel | Zagor: http://pastie.org/2047785 |
| 16:04:17 | Zagor | yes, but does your runclient.sh not set the path? |
| 16:04:42 | kugel | why should it? it's exported |
| 16:06:00 | Zagor | just checking |
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| 16:10:05 | kugel | Zagor: did it work at the devcon already? rbclient.pl wasn't updated since then |
| 16:10:25 | Zagor | yes it did |
| 16:11:29 | kugel | I told you about that error at the devcon already |
| 16:12:25 | Zagor | well, it's difficult to debug a problem I cannot reproduce |
| 16:13:52 | kugel | Zagor: adding the tools folder to PATH helped |
| 16:14:11 | Zagor | great |
| 16:14:44 | kugel | I expected ANDROID_{S,N}DK_PATH to be sufficient, though, as those are needed for building |
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| 17:05:59 | kugelp | gevaerts: I mostly finished implementing the buflib enhancements |
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| 17:34:48 | * | [Saint] wonders about RaaA and the build system... |
| 17:34:53 | [Saint] | How is signing handled? |
| 17:35:11 | Torne | It isn't |
| 17:35:21 | Torne | That's one ofd the reasons it's not being built successfully there yet |
| 17:35:29 | [Saint] | Aha. |
| 17:35:31 | Torne | We discussed it at devcon and have some ideas. |
| 17:36:17 | [Saint] | basically all that can be done is build up to point of signing, then pass the build back to a trusted central machine....or have just one trusted machine handle all builds...no? |
| 17:36:42 | | Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@128.135.100.102) |
| 17:36:49 | [Saint] | otherwise you'd need to uninstall each time, and, that'd suck. |
| 17:37:23 | Torne | we're probably going to end up actually authenticating clients somehow |
| 17:37:26 | Torne | and choosing which ones to trust |
| 17:37:30 | | Join user890104 [0] (~Venci@6bez10.info) |
| 17:37:37 | GodEater_ | and then sign builds from them |
| 17:37:42 | Torne | it's not okay to just let clients build unsigned binaries and have the server sign it because anyone can connect as a client and upload anything |
| 17:37:46 | GodEater_ | from what I recall of the talk |
| 17:38:03 | * | [Saint] nods. |
| 17:38:04 | Torne | Yeah, so we'll either have the trusted clients sign it with their own keys and then the master can resign them |
| 17:38:15 | Torne | or we will just authenticate the slave/master connection |
| 17:38:18 | [Saint] | I've been wondering how the signing would work with the build system for some time now. |
| 17:38:30 | Torne | probably the trusted clients will be "ones run by committers" |
| 17:38:39 | GodEater_ | I'm trying to work out which is the easier to implement |
| 17:39:12 | GodEater_ | I think signing the builds from each trusted client is probably easier |
| 17:39:21 | Torne | probably |
| 17:39:21 | GodEater_ | rather than authenticating the connection |
| 17:39:29 | [Saint] | multiple machines+resigning would be faster...but one trusted machine "easier"..I assume? |
| 17:40:05 | | Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:40:09 | GodEater_ | Torne: the alternative is we send out the Rockbox master key to all trusted clients? |
| 17:40:27 | Torne | i'd vote for not doing that on general principle unless it proves to be really hard to resign |
| 17:40:30 | GodEater_ | though I guess that risks the entire system in the event of a client compromise |
| 17:40:41 | Torne | yeah. revocation. |
| 17:40:43 | [Saint] | indeed. |
| 17:41:02 | [Saint] | Not handing out the key should be avoided, if possible. |
| 17:41:17 | GodEater_ | nice double negative there [Saint] |
| 17:42:23 | kugelp | (re)signing trusted builds on the master very doable doesn't it? |
| 17:42:48 | Torne | kugelp: should be,m unless the android tools are terrible |
| 17:43:22 | kugelp | Torne: I think you can just repack the apk and sign again |
| 17:43:38 | Torne | is there some easy way to verify the signature, though? |
| 17:44:16 | kugelp | whatever jarsigner can do |
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| 18:22:56 | Torne | ok, so i'm not giving up on more people filling in email addresses int he list *yet*, but eventually we will have to as some people are no longer around. What should we do with people who haven't been active for a long time but are still in the commit history? Guess an email for them from committers subscriptions? Use a @rockbox.org address? Use something obviously fake? |
| 18:29:10 | | Join thomasjfox [0] (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
| 18:29:56 | CIA-58 | New commit by thomasjfox (r29992): RaaA / sim: Don't abort directory read if we encounter files larger than 2 GB in a directory |
| 18:33:06 | CIA-58 | r29992 build result: All green |
| 18:36:16 | * | Torne builds a list of everyone who hasn't committed recently for comparison |
| 18:39:51 | Torne | heh, there's 53 usernames that haven't committed since before 2008 |
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| 18:41:44 | | Join hobby16 [0] (~ubuntu@162.123.68.86.rev.sfr.net) |
| 18:42:15 | hobby16 | hello |
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| 18:49:16 | [Saint] | Hi hobby16, welcome to the channel. This channel is specific to Rockbox, if you have a question regarding ROckbox just ask away. If you're looking for a social channel, this isn't the right place ;) |
| 18:51:34 | linuxstb | Torne: Can email addresses be "corrected" at a later date if old committers come forward? |
| 18:52:23 | Torne | Not once we publish the repository and people start using it |
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| 18:52:35 | Torne | You don't have to use the same email forever, so if they come back and start committing again they can use whatever they like |
| 18:52:35 | linuxstb | Torne: Also, I assume you've noticed some users are there twice? e.g. I have been both linuxstb and dave, Bagder has also been dast |
| 18:52:47 | thomasjfox | linuxstb: That would mess up the commit history -> new SHA1 ids |
| 18:52:50 | Torne | but we can't change the address in old commits without destroying the history |
| 18:53:06 | Torne | This is why the conversion I'm going to do is going to break existing git repos cloned from our git mirror ;) |
| 18:53:14 | Torne | because that mirror doesn't remap usernames at all and just uses useless strings |
| 18:53:37 | Torne | linuxstb: so yeah. I can, technically, replace the addresses while i'm still testing it |
| 18:53:44 | Torne | filter-branch is faster than doing the whole import/conversion again |
| 18:53:49 | Torne | but once we publish it you can't do that any more |
| 18:54:03 | Torne | and yes, i know some people are in there multiple times |
| 18:54:06 | Torne | that's fine |
| 18:54:14 | Torne | those will just get folded together |
| 18:54:23 | Torne | zagor is even more people since he is also root and (no author) :) |
| 18:55:52 | Torne | but anyway. yeah. we will have to decide what is going to be recorded as the "official" history |
| 18:56:20 | Torne | and the ability to change our minds drops off extremely rapidly once we are using git publicly :0 |
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| 18:59:31 | Torne | i poked more stats btw and about 50% of the usernames on the list have committed in the last 18 months |
| 18:59:50 | Torne | so the other 50% may well not be paying much attention :) |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:12:21 | amiconn | Torne: We might be able to get some committer->email mappings from the ml archives. |
| 19:12:32 | amiconn | The question is whether we want that |
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| 20:30:34 | Torne | amiconn: indeed |
| 20:30:34 | Torne | amiconn: i'm not sure i want to just fill it in for people |
| 20:30:49 | wodz | Torne: You refered to some spreadsheet earlier today - what's that? |
| 20:31:06 | Torne | wodz: i sent a mail to -committers |
| 20:31:24 | Torne | we're collecting email addresses for the git migration, for what you want to be associated with your commits |
| 20:31:38 | Torne | since svn uses just a username wheraesa git uses realname <email> |
| 20:32:00 | wodz | hmm, I am not subscribed to -commiters that explain why I missed the context. |
| 20:32:05 | Torne | You should be |
| 20:32:11 | Torne | but yeah i just pm'ed you the link |
| 20:32:24 | Torne | fill in the email address you want me to use for the git migration, next to your username |
| 20:32:34 | Torne | and correct your real name if it's spelt wrong or not formatted right ;) |
| 20:33:36 | amiconn | What are you going to do if committers have more than one username? Will you merge them? |
| 20:33:56 | Torne | yes |
| 20:33:59 | Torne | they dont' need to be unique |
| 20:34:08 | Torne | there's no actual "account" or anything here |
| 20:34:24 | Torne | it's literally just throwing the svn usernames away and replacing them with an arbitrary string formatted as something that includes an email address. |
| 20:34:28 | Torne | so it doesn't have to be 1:1 :) |
| 20:34:50 | amiconn | So how does one authenticate? |
| 20:34:59 | Torne | unrelated to this. |
| 20:35:07 | Torne | if we go with gerrit, you authenticate with an ssh pubkey |
| 20:35:10 | Torne | or a generated password |
| 20:35:15 | Torne | and whatever username you choose on gerrit |
| 20:35:18 | Torne | which is up to you |
| 20:35:24 | Torne | it's all self-service at that end |
| 20:35:33 | Torne | This is just for how to identify authorship for existing commits in history |
| 20:35:37 | Torne | it has nothing to do with access control |
| 20:36:18 | Torne | if we don't go with gerrit then it may be slightly differnt but generally ssh public key auth is how it's done with git |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | I'll have a gerrit demo running sometime over the weekend, and will put up some instructions on how to get set up and try it out, so you can see what you think. |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | we have a machine to host it that isn't in my living room now, so it's got enough bandwidth to have a full copy of the rockbox tree ;) |
| 20:41:43 | wodz | hmm is '+' sign valid in email address? |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | wodz: yes |
| 20:41:43 | wodz | weird |
| 20:41:43 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK Torne |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | lots of things don't like it, but it is valid by the RFCs |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | wodz: if you quote it almost everything is valid |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | "Hi There I'm Some Guy@231q535%%3"@foo.com is a valid email address |
| 20:41:43 | jhMikeS | Torne: you sent something to committers about the spreadsheet? I'm not seeing it :\ |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 2 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | jhMikeS: yesterday? day before? |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 3 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | spawned a 20+ post long argument about real names? |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 4 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | :) |
| 20:41:43 | jhMikeS | oh |
| 20:41:43 | jhMikeS | waaaay back there ... lol |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 5 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | amiconn: i'm tempted to go with username@rockbox.org for the people who haven't replied |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 6 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | after some deadline |
| 20:41:43 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK jhMikeS |
| 20:41:43 | jhMikeS | I'm not sure if bagder got my request to setup a rockbox.org address |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 7 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | jhMikeS: well you can put it in now anyway |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 8 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | it's not going to receive any mail any time soon |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 9 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | we are unliekly to actually switch for at least a week or two :) |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 10 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | amiconn: we can redirect them to some holding location or something until people come back to "claim" their mail, I guess? |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 11 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | amiconn: seems like a better option than guessing and publishing an address they don't want published. |
| 20:41:43 | bertrik | maybe wait at least until release |
| 20:41:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 12 |
| 20:41:43 | Torne | bertrik: yes, probably |
| 20:41:43 | gevaerts | Yes, it does seem wise to wait ubtil the release |
| 20:41:56 | Torne | I can still bring the git infrastructure up while we are still using svn, though |
| 20:42:08 | Torne | it's not a problem to import new commits from svn as long as nobody is committing real work to git yet |
| 20:42:18 | Torne | we can have it up to look at and experiment with |
| 20:43:05 | Torne | it's not any different to the current git mirror in principle, it's just this version will have proper contributor names/addresses instead of dummy ones |
| 20:43:12 | Torne | and the branch/tag history will be slighly different |
| 20:43:22 | wodz | Torne: we need to sponsor you t-shirt with GO GIT or something :-) |
| 20:43:22 | Torne | (i am preserving all branches and tags because it's easy and doesn't really make things any bigger) :) |
| 20:43:31 | Torne | wodz: you realise i still don't actually like git |
| 20:43:35 | Torne | and would rather use something else ;) |
| 20:43:45 | Torne | it's ust that if we are going to use git i at least want to see it done properly ;) |
| 20:44:02 | jhMikeS | done |
| 20:44:20 | Torne | thanks. |
| 20:44:28 | Torne | Most people who have committed in the last year or so have done it |
| 20:44:36 | Torne | the majority of the blanks are from people who aren't really around any more |
| 20:44:48 | Torne | or at least not actually submitting to svn |
| 20:46:49 | | Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) |
| 20:47:12 | wodz | about updating wiki - TowerOfRockbox needs update with new record |
| 20:48:43 | Torne | heh |
| 20:49:05 | jhMikeS | I have a small helicopter I could fly into it |
| 20:49:42 | gevaerts | Speaking of which, what's the status of the devcon minutes and the google blog? |
| 20:50:00 | Torne | Oh crap yes |
| 20:50:04 | Torne | Someone still needs to write that |
| 20:50:04 | Torne | :) |
| 20:50:16 | Torne | would someone like to write that up this weekend? :) :) :) |
| 20:50:18 | Torne | I suck at writing |
| 20:50:25 | Torne | and maybe pick some photos |
| 20:50:31 | Torne | (i don't have any photos) |
| 20:51:00 | gevaerts | I half understood that GodEater was doing somethibg, but I'm not sure |
| 20:51:44 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 20:51:50 | Torne | he implied he might |
| 20:51:51 | Torne | anyway if we can get that done say, within the next week, that'd be great |
| 20:51:51 | Torne | otherwise cat will probably bug me |
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| 20:52:46 | Ctcp | Ignored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 20:52:46 | * | Torne heads home, will be back later to check if any of the people who haven't filled in the list are actually on irc ;) |
| 20:53:40 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 20:55:05 | jhMikeS | LinusN surely must be involved here :) |
| 20:56:03 | | Quit xeniter (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:02:02 | kugelp | we definitely owe Torne some beer for doing this git transition work |
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| 21:39:51 | kugelp | I have one question w.r.t. to buflib_alloc_maximum() |
| 21:40:18 | kugelp | buflib has the handle table at the end of its buffer. for new allocations the handle table needs to be enlarged |
| 21:40:38 | kugelp | which might fail if buflib_alloc_maximum() handed out memory there |
| 21:40:58 | gevaerts | Can that ever actually happen? |
| 21:41:24 | kugelp | so, I'm thinking how to solve this. a) reserve sufficiently enough handles in _maximum(), b) ask the allocation to make space at the end, or c) both |
| 21:42:20 | kugelp | it's unlikely to happen since de-allocated handles are reused before enlarging the table |
| 21:42:23 | gevaerts | I mean, if you don't shrink after calling buflib_alloc_maximum(), something is wrong |
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| 21:43:07 | kugelp | the shrink can possibly free space at the front and not at the end of the allocation (i.e. audio buffer) |
| 21:43:14 | gevaerts | oh |
| 21:43:16 | gevaerts | right |
| 21:44:19 | kugelp | also the user code ideally shouldn't be concerned with the handle table at the end (or even know it exists) |
| 21:46:03 | gevaerts | Maybe add a rule that says that non-movable allocations can only shrink on one end? Would that hurt things? |
| 21:46:17 | kugelp | I have implemented b) currently, a) is easy to implement additionally so we'd have c) |
| 21:46:19 | | Quit [Saint] (Client Quit) |
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| 21:46:59 | gevaerts | Well, it depends on what "sufficient" means |
| 21:47:43 | | Quit rasher (Quit: Changing server) |
| 21:47:49 | kugelp | perhaps 64? |
| 21:47:51 | gevaerts | So I'd say b, and possibly c, and insist that if you want a buffer at a fixed address, you can only shrink while keeping the start address the same |
| 21:48:26 | gevaerts | If you do that, the a) bit is only an optimisation and it's not critical if you get the number a bit too small |
| 21:48:43 | kugelp | that breaks my plans to resize the audio buffer at its front, having the pcm buffer (accessed by dma) at the end |
| 21:48:47 | gevaerts | But I don't know if that rule is realistic given the code |
| 21:48:48 | | Join rasher [0] (~rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher) |
| 21:49:19 | kugelp | so, effectively audio would have to stop to make room at the end |
| 21:49:23 | gevaerts | ok |
| 21:49:39 | gevaerts | That's not really very nice, so let's try to avoid it :) |
| 21:51:24 | kugelp | 64 is only 256 bytes, and it's *really* unlikely there are going to be 64 simultanous allocations |
| 21:51:51 | gevaerts | So c) would mean you only move when you happen to get the number wrong I guess, so you only may have to restart playback in rare cases? |
| 21:52:01 | | Quit promyloph (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5) |
| 21:52:04 | kugelp | if at all, yes |
| 21:52:12 | gevaerts | right, then I think that's best |
| 21:52:39 | | Quit mshathlonxp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:52:45 | kugelp | alright then |
| 21:52:56 | | Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 21:53:08 | kugelp | btw, I've implemented the API proposed on the ML now (with very minor changes to it) |
| 21:54:20 | gevaerts | With the extra call to get a pointer? ;) |
| 21:55:04 | kugelp | yes :) |
| 21:55:23 | kugelp | (I've pushed everything to my github) |
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| 21:58:41 | realodd | hey anybody here? |
| 21:59:01 | | Quit realodd (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 21:59:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 21:59:59 | jhMikeS | nobody but us chickens |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:21 | GodEater_ | Torne: I'll try and write up something cat-worthy over the weekend |
| 22:01:23 | realodd | i bet there's chicks out there too |
| 22:01:27 | realodd | anyhow |
| 22:01:53 | realodd | can anyone help me make my ipod recognizable as a midi controller? |
| 22:02:07 | realodd | or help me find some music making software? |
| 22:02:10 | realodd | :) |
| 22:02:43 | gevaerts | That's not going to be straightforward |
| 22:03:33 | gevaerts | I *think* midi over USB uses the audio class. There are patches for USB audio around, but they're not finished or integrated, and they don't do midi yet |
| 22:05:04 | pamaury | and it mainly depends on the usb controller |
| 22:05:27 | kugelp | gevaerts: so, I would like to have decisions regarding the API relatively soon so I can start porting it over to rockbox |
| 22:06:16 | gevaerts | kugelp: what decisions still need to be taken? The naming? |
| 22:06:17 | kugelp | in the meantime I will add more test cases, but it's not simple to make up sufficiently complex scenarios |
| 22:06:42 | kugelp | gevaerts: and (more importantly) whether the API is good enough |
| 22:06:56 | kugelp | I thought it would be more controverse but it doesn't appear to be |
| 22:07:20 | GodEater_ | kugelp: it's not contraversial because you're still not calling it malloc() ;) |
| 22:07:33 | kugelp | actually...:) |
| 22:07:42 | * | GodEater_ gets his pitchfork |
| 22:07:46 | gevaerts | kugelp: you proposed it on the mailing list, so give it a few more days and it's fine :) |
| 22:07:53 | kugelp | actually, I thought on RaaA it might be malloc backed |
| 22:08:03 | GodEater_ | it's acceptable there |
| 22:08:19 | GodEater_ | those targets have bucketloads of memory compared to the usual targets |
| 22:08:31 | jhMikeS | GodEater_: lol...my sentiments exactly |
| 22:08:57 | GodEater_ | it's not like we're looking after the memory there either really - there's a "real" OS to do it for us. |
| 22:08:58 | gevaerts | On RaaA you're also likely not going to bother moving allocations around |
| 22:09:04 | gevaerts | They do have an MMU after all |
| 22:09:05 | jhMikeS | sneaking malloc in the back door |
| 22:09:12 | GodEater_ | jhMikeS: Sssssssh! |
| 22:09:18 | kugelp | malloc doesn't mean memory waste :) |
| 22:09:18 | * | GodEater_ looks nervously over his shoulder |
| 22:10:01 | jhMikeS | ;) |
| 22:10:20 | kugelp | the amount of available memory isn't an argument for or against malloc. whether you can sensibly free() is one |
| 22:11:46 | kugelp | jhMikeS: too late, it's already sneaked in ;) |
| 22:12:39 | jhMikeS | there are times I wouldn't mind it at all |
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| 22:26:01 | realodd | yeah i know it's tricky |
| 22:26:07 | realodd | but where should i go |
| 22:26:09 | realodd | ? |
| 22:26:38 | realodd | what other devices does rockbox emulate besides snes and that computer that runs on cassettes? |
| 22:26:43 | | Join Noub [0] (~8e44613a@giant.haxx.se) |
| 22:28:50 | Noub | as opposed to random songs)? |
| 22:29:05 | Noub | and that ate the first half of my question, nice |
| 22:29:32 | Noub | can rockbox shuffle albums as opposed to songs? |
| 22:30:06 | gevaerts | It can shuffle directories. |
| 22:30:09 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:30:33 | Noub | that'd be the same as shuffling artists then? |
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| 22:31:01 | gevaerts | Well, that depends entirely on your directory structure |
| 22:31:05 | Noub | I guess it would depend how the songs were transferred over, huh |
| 22:31:08 | gevaerts | Have a look at http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch11.html#x14-30700011.4.13 |
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| 22:31:24 | Noub | rhythmbox seems to do it by artist, I wonder if I can change that |
| 22:34:15 | | Join evilnick_B_ [0] (0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 22:34:29 | Torne | most programs that use a file structure at all do artist\album |
| 22:34:31 | Torne | which would work fine |
| 22:35:11 | | Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 22:36:42 | Noub | albums with various artists would cause headaches though |
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| 22:37:05 | Torne | most programs that arrange files sensibly put those under Various Artists\album, or under the albumartist |
| 22:37:08 | Torne | :) |
| 22:39:22 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli) |
| 22:41:04 | Torne | dionoea: see my mail on -committers about email addresses for git migration |
| 22:42:17 | dionoea | Torne: ? |
| 22:42:37 | Torne | trying to collect committer names/addresses for svn2git purposes |
| 22:42:44 | Torne | you haven't filled it in :) |
| 22:43:04 | dionoea | oh. I'm not sure that I got that e-mail. Let me check |
| 22:44:17 | Torne | Unhelpful: also you |
| 22:44:48 | Torne | also other people but they are not ehre using the same nick as their svn username |
| 22:44:51 | Torne | :) |
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| 22:46:25 | dionoea | Torne: hum, I can't find that email |
| 22:46:34 | gevaerts | Torne: IrcNicks on the wiki might help |
| 22:47:00 | Torne | maybe but i can't be bothered to do that work right now |
| 22:47:08 | Torne | someone else is free to, you have the link ;) |
| 22:50:43 | Torne | there are still 16 people who haven't done it who have committed in the last 18 months. they are clearly not paying attention ;p |
| 22:51:03 | Torne | people who haven't committed this decade I can maybe understand ;) |
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| 23:00 |
| 23:01:07 | gevaerts | Febs, LambdaCalculus37, Lamed, MarcGuay, Mmmm, Moos, Nico_P, Paprica, Quelsaruk, TiMiD, Toni1, [IDC]Dragon, aliask, archivator, austriancoder, dan_a, debauched_sloth, dreamlayers, earHertz, eigma, elinenbe, gotthardt, hardeep, jyp, lostlogic, lowlight, matsl, midgey, midkay, niobos, phaedrus961, ptw419, roolku, safetydan, sdoyon, shotofadds, stevenm, stripwax, t0mas, theli_ua, tomal, tucoz, vitja: ping |
| 23:01:29 | gevaerts | Torne: done :) |
| 23:01:30 | Torne | hehe |
| 23:01:58 | Torne | People just pinged: see history just above, or rockbox-committers list |
| 23:02:18 | Torne | if you don't have the committers mail with the link to the spreadsheet ask someone else (not posting it publicly) |
| 23:02:46 | Torne | gevaerts: it's much easier when people's names/emails/usernames/nicks are the same :) |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).