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#rockbox log for 2011-06-13

00:00:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:00:28TorneOh, one thign someone mentioned
00:00:38TorneYou don't have to commit with the same email as your OpenID has
00:00:45Torneyou can add alternate email addresses in your settings in gerrit
00:00:50Torne(it will mail them to verify)
00:01:00Torneand then any of those addresses will be accepted in commits
00:01:00 Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
00:01:10Torne(you can pick which one gerrit mail goes to, also)
00:01:27Torneany other open questions I missed? :)
00:02:32TorneThere's another nice trick if you have a whole topic branch to upload: if you push to refs/for/master/some-topic it will label them all on the site as being for some-topic
00:02:39Tornewhich you can click on to find other patches on the same topic
00:03:58 Join ibhan [0] (
00:04:22 Quit ender` (Quit: How long a minute is depends on which side of the bathroom door you are on. -- Practical application of Theory of Relativity)
00:17:47CIA-58New commit by nls (r29996): Remove a couple of dead inits and assignments found by the clang-static-analyzer.
00:19:31 Quit xeniter (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:19:32AlexPI assume I can use a different email for rockbox than is set as my global e-mail in git?
00:19:41Torneyes, see above.
00:19:48Torneyou can add more addresses
00:19:54Torneand change which one it sends email to
00:19:54 Join leavittx [0] (
00:20:14Tornethe one your openid provider gave is just the default
00:20:49CIA-58r29996 build result: All green
00:21:15AlexPTorne: I'm talking about the git −−global bit
00:21:21AlexPWhich is different to my global id
00:21:25AlexP*open id
00:21:40AlexPwhich is different to the e-mail I want to use for Rockbox/gerrit :)
00:21:55Torneyes, you can use anything that gerrit knows about
00:22:07Torneand you can set it in just one repo by omitting −−global
00:22:31pixelmamoving tracks in an already existing playlist doesn't work very nice on touchscreen, especially if the list is already longer than what fits on the display then it's next to impossible to get the track to its spot if you would have to scroll the list up or down for that
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00:23:03AlexPTorne: Ta, so when I do my checkout I'll set it in the test repo
00:23:27Tornegerrit just requires that Committer: be an email that's associated with your gerrit account to stop forgery :)
00:23:36Torne(Author can be anything)
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00:44:38NOTBANNEDso I charged my ipod video 5th generation on my ipod dock with the default firmware, switch to rockbox and suddenly the battery is empty and automatically shuts down? What, is it accessing some other battery than the one that's in there? argh
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00:46:53AlexPTorne: I tried to review and submit my own change and get server error requires code review - I guess this is as it is not set up that we can accept our own changes?
00:47:22TorneYou can review and submit your own changes
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00:47:31AlexPOr is is because gevaerts rejected the first patch set?
00:47:34 Part ibhan
00:47:38TorneState resets with new uploads
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00:47:47AlexPhmm, so why can't I do it?
00:47:48TorneYou need +1 verified and +2 reviewed to submit
00:47:55AlexPyeah, I set that
00:47:57Torneverified is supposed to mean "i built and tested this"
00:48:01Tornefor reference :)
00:48:26TorneIt has a -2
00:48:29Torneso it can't be submitted
00:48:34NOTBANNEDthe ipod has one battery
00:48:36NOTBANNEDnot two
00:48:40NOTBANNEDapple's firmware says 100%
00:48:41TorneOh, right.
00:48:42NOTBANNEDrockbox says 0%
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00:48:46NOTBANNEDsomebody's lying
00:48:52AlexPThey aren't
00:48:57TorneYeah, you need to get gevaerts to change his to something other than -2 first
00:49:02AlexPThey are just reading it in different ways
00:49:12NOTBANNEDwhy is rockbox's so inaccurate?
00:49:13AlexPSo you can't overrule someone else?
00:49:23TorneWell, only negatively
00:49:24NOTBANNEDbecause I just charged it. it's full
00:49:35Torneit has to have at least one +2 and no -2's
00:49:39AlexPTorne: OK, makes sense
00:49:48Torne(and the same for verified with +1/-1)
00:49:49AlexPAnd one -2 will overrule any number of +2?
00:49:55gevaertsNOTBANNED: how long does the battery last in the OF?
00:49:55Torneit's not arithmetic
00:49:59Tornetwo +1's are not a +2
00:50:09AlexPSo given that anyone can review, this means non-committers can block committers
00:50:15TorneAlexP: no
00:50:23TorneAlexP: non-committers can only give +1 and -1
00:50:31NOTBANNEDgevaerts, days.
00:50:35AlexPSo a +2 overrules a -1
00:50:38Tornethe sandbox repo gives everyone the same permissions as committers
00:50:41Torne-1 doesn't do anything
00:50:43Torne+1 doesn't do anything
00:50:45NOTBANNEDit's like i'm charging two different batteries
00:50:46Tornethey are just advisory
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00:50:53AlexPmakes sense
00:50:59NOTBANNEDit went from 0% to 50% in Rockbox charging it via USB right now in 15 minutes.
00:51:12gevaertsNOTBANNED: I'm not aware of any ipod lasting days in the OF
00:51:22AlexPTorne: I was confused by you saying "Any Gerrit user can review your change if they choose" in the guide :)
00:51:23NOTBANNEDthe amount i use it
00:51:25NOTBANNEDit's days
00:51:29TorneAlexP: they can review it, yes :)
00:51:36TorneNOTBANNED: we mean continuously/intotal
00:51:39Tornenot how many days
00:51:42AlexPyeah, but not to the same extent :)
00:51:45NOTBANNEDi never tested. it's a long time
00:52:01NOTBANNEDrockbox does drain the battery more quickly
00:52:02AlexPMy players last months if I don't use them
00:52:04NOTBANNEDbut that isn't the issue
00:52:06AlexPNo it doesn't
00:52:10NOTBANNEDyes it does
00:52:15AlexPRockbox gets longer battery life on those ipods
00:52:24TorneRockbox gets 10-15% more life on ipodvideo
00:52:25NOTBANNEDnot from my experience
00:52:26Tornedepending on settings.
00:52:30TorneI assure you it does
00:52:34AlexPIt really does
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00:52:36NOTBANNEDmaybe it's because I play flacs
00:52:43AlexPwhich the apple OF can't
00:52:50NOTBANNEDdon't be biased
00:52:51AlexPYou need to compare like to like
00:52:54TorneIf you play FLAC in rockbox and ALAC in the OF, rockbox will last longer
00:52:59AlexPI'm not biased
00:53:04NOTBANNEDthat has nothing to do with the problem I have
00:53:09AlexPIf you want to compare you need to do the same thing with both
00:53:10NOTBANNED100% apple firmware battery charge
00:53:14NOTBANNED0% rockbox
00:53:19AlexPOtherwise it is meaningless
00:53:21NOTBANNEDauto shut down when I turned it on
00:53:41gevaertsThat usually means your battery is just about dead
00:53:49NOTBANNEDit's been charging on usb for about 15-20 minutes now
00:53:51NOTBANNEDand it reads 75%
00:53:59NOTBANNEDthis is a bullshit reading
00:54:05NOTBANNEDnothing charges that quickly over usb
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00:54:11NOTBANNEDsomething's amiss
00:54:54kugelTorne: can different authors update patches?
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00:55:00Tornekugel: yes
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01:04:29sideraljhMikeS: Have you experienced any problems with FS #12132 <>? I'd like to commit it before the freeze
01:04:30fs-bluebot tagnavi: Support "basename" in formats and conditions; replace <Untagged> in track views (patches, new)
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01:09:06fmlHello. I don't remember wether this has been discussed before, but: wouldn't it be a good idea to have an index in the manual? Or is the table of contents enough?
01:09:23TorneIndexes have to be maintained to be any use, this gets pretty tedious
01:09:33Torneyou can search it, is that not sufficient?
01:10:01pixelmabluebrother started one but I believe gave up then (IIRC there are still some sign of it in the code)
01:12:43fmlTorne: the index would be of course generated automatically by latex. We only have to mark the appropriate places in the text.
01:12:54Tornefml: yes, that's the tedious maintenance I refer to
01:13:01Tornedeciding what's index-worthy
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01:13:14Tornemaking sure index terms don't wander away from useful descriptions, etc
01:13:39Torneassembling a good index is annoyingly difficult :)
01:13:50fmlYes, I see.
01:14:09Tornethe manual is short enough that searching it generally works
01:14:20Tornesomeone suggested at devcon that there should be a single-page html version
01:14:27Tornewhich would be easier to search :)
01:15:18fmlThere is a single document PDF version!
01:15:29TornePDFs suck :)
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01:18:34sideralAlexP: At which time of the day will the freeze take effect?
01:18:50AlexPsideral: Afternoon EU time I expect
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01:20:11sideralOK, thanks
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01:41:39*sideral decides to not rush FS #12132. Users will have to cope with <Untagged> in track views for another full release.
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02:00:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:27:09kugelTorne: any particular reason to not allow merge commits?
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03:28:14JdGordonTorne: isnt merge commits basically the point of git?
03:28:28JdGordonand I'm voting for requiring all commits go through gerrit and get a review
03:29:22JdGordonand I know for sure thats going to annoy me later :)
03:56:46JdGordon[Saint]: grrrrrr
03:56:53JdGordonstop spreading lies and slander!!!!
03:57:12JdGordon(otherwise known as ping+bad thread comment)
03:59:31JdGordonhmmmm, actually looks like CustomWPS is badly worded/outdated
04:00:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:00:17[Saint]JdGordon: Can you explain to me how the "image" param maintains backward compatibility please?
05:00:42[Saint]will the additional params just be ignored by older builds, instead of failing to parse?
05:02:56[Saint]also, in "%xx(x,y,w,h,image.bmp,image,foo)" the image with identifier foo is given preference?
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05:09:02RoMeowHelp me to remove the autoreverse please!
05:09:28[Saint]what exactly do you mean by "remove"?
05:09:44RoMeowturn off
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05:09:56[Saint]and, what fuction are you talking about exactly?
05:10:07RoMeowauto reverse
05:10:19RoMeowthe spiral arrow
05:10:36RoMeowthe playback
05:10:45[Saint]there are several settings that can rewind the current track by <X> value, you need to be more specific.
05:10:53RoMeowwhen you end the album it starts again to reproduce
05:11:22[Saint]this is repeat. change it via the playback settings.
05:11:31RoMeowwhere are them!?!?
05:11:33[Saint]or via the quickscreen.
05:11:39RoMeowI didn't change them
05:11:58[Saint]Repeat isn't enabled by default, you must have.
05:12:52RoMeowwhat's up mates?
05:13:28RoMeoware you ready for the pit?
05:13:44RoMeowhooga hooga chakka hooga!
05:13:45RoMeowhooga hooga chakka hooga!
05:13:46DBUGEnqueued KICK RoMeow
05:13:46RoMeowhooga hooga chakka hooga!
05:14:12[Saint]Apologies, but this is a support/development channel. Please keep on topic, and do not spam the channel.
05:15:26RoMeowI love you Saint
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06:00:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:28:13JdGordon[Saint]: no, you misunderstood, I meant to keep backwards-compat with older skins in new builds
06:28:24JdGordonand yes, the image optin always overrides the filename
06:29:13[Saint]it just seems weird to me that the example I posted is valid.
06:29:31[Saint]I'd rather see the compatibility broken.
06:30:19[Saint]....,<other options>,image,identifier" seems saner to me.
06:30:42[Saint]or, the alternative.
06:30:50JdGordonyes, but if you arent using any other options there is no real reason to force the 'image' param
06:31:20[Saint]but the fact that you can have both image_name.bitmap *and* specifiy the "image" param with an identifier seems...I dunno, just...weird.
06:31:41JdGordonyou want it to fail if that is there?
06:31:44JdGordonseems pointless
06:31:51[Saint]I feel it should.
06:31:57JdGordonespecially with the shit debugging we have
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06:33:01JdGordonwasnt android going to be moved to unstable?
06:34:19[Saint]"%xx(x,y,w,h,image_name.bmp,some_option(s),image,identifier)" seems batshit crazy to me.
06:34:37[Saint]I'm not sure I can say *why* exactly, does seem odd that it's valid.
06:34:37JdGordonyes, it is
06:34:54JdGordonbut you'd be wrong to put both there
06:34:58JdGordonone or the other
06:35:13[Saint]the fact that you can and it won't spit is what bugs me.
06:35:21[Saint]I'd expect it to fail parsing.
06:35:31JdGordonwell, naa
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06:36:30[Saint]And yeah, RaaA being promoted was something I thought was happening also.
06:36:47[Saint]perhaps it's "will happen in the not-so-distant future"
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08:00:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:11:09CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
09:11:09*GodEater_ fiddles with gerrit a bit
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09:14:04dt84hi. is it possible to add to the scrobble.log file the album-artist?
09:19:14GodEater_If the scrobble format allows for it, then yes, it is possible.
09:26:49JdGordon[Saint]: I'm fixing the %cs tag in the playlist viewer and pitch screen... any others?
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09:30:07dt84GodEater_: According to, it is an optional field. Is it something that should be reported as a bug in ?
09:30:24GodEater_well since it's optional, its not really a bug is it?
09:30:58dt84lets call it a "feature request"?
09:32:21GodEater_unfortunately for you, we don't accept them :)
09:32:44dt84oh. :-/
09:32:49GodEater_if you care to code it up youself - we'll take it as a patch.
09:33:22CIA-58New commit by jdgordon (r29997): Fix the %cs tag for the pitchscreen and playlist viewer
09:33:22GodEater_or, if someone benevolent here is listening, they might choose to do it anyway - but when we ran a feature request system, it just filled up with stuff that no-one ever wanted to actually do.
09:33:30GodEater_so we concluded it was basically useless.
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09:34:02JdGordonTorne: oh, question re gerrit... your example always pushes the HEAD branch... can you push a local branch also?
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09:34:31GodEater_JdGordon: it's a git implementation, so yes. The question is more, "do we want you to do that?"
09:34:32*JdGordon hopes 1) that question makes sense, and 2) isnt completly stupid :)
09:34:46GodEater_s/you/people in general/
09:35:21JdGordonwhats really the benefit to forcing linear history?
09:35:24GodEater_we did discuss this briefly at devcon, I seem to recall we decided having people push branches wasn't a great plan.
09:35:42GodEater_JdGordon: so people can report "feature X didn't work against build Y" more easily.
09:36:31JdGordonI meant pushing a local branch to a review, which would eventually get merged to HEAD by gerrit
09:36:36dt84i'll explain my problem: i have several albums with multiple artists participating on it, each on a different song. so i want to send the data to as followed: song: X artist: Y album artist: Z.
09:36:42CIA-58r29997 build result: All green
09:36:43JdGordonand i dont see why linear history fixes that
09:37:00GodEater_JdGordon: ah sorry, I misunderstood. Not sure how easy that is to do.
09:37:21JdGordonI agree that we shouldnt put feature branches on our repo (iun general anyway)
09:37:28JdGordongithub is for that :)
09:37:30GodEater_dt84: I understand your problem completely, and I agree it would be nice for Rockbox to do. I'm just saying don't expect anyone to just jump on it and do it.
09:37:48GodEater_JdGordon: I suspect you can just send a local branch as a patch
09:37:53GodEater_I don't see why it wouldn't work
09:38:01JdGordonthats what I was checking :)
09:38:13GodEater_JdGordon: why not just try it against the sandbox and see?
09:38:26JdGordoni havnt got it going yet :p
09:38:38GodEater_oh come on, it takes about 1 minute
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09:39:48dt84GodEater_: totally understand. lets say i'll ever have the time to implement this - can you give me some pointers on where to start?
09:40:11GodEater_first step would be to check out the source code
09:40:18GodEater_and get yourself a working build environment
09:40:24GodEater_(which we have several guides for in the wiki)
09:41:11GodEater_and then the code you're looking for is most likely in apps/scrobbler.c
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09:44:02dt84greate. i hope i'll manage. thanks a lot.
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09:57:44JdGordonyes, ok, HEAD was just an example... you can push local branches as patches
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10:20:27 Nick kugel_ is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
10:21:00JdGordonany thoughts on FS #11564?
10:21:01fs-bluebot new tag to talk other tags (patches, new)
10:21:10kugelwhat, no branches in the git repo?
10:21:25TorneJdGordon: I think we *should* put feature branches on our repository
10:21:30Tornenot on github
10:21:32Tornethat's silly
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10:23:18Torneyou can push any branch to gerrit.
10:23:37Torne(HEAD is the head of the current branch, not the head of the default branch)
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10:23:46JdGordonallowing feature branches but not merge commits seems a bit wierd
10:23:55Torneif the branch has more than one commit and you push it as a review then it will create multiple reviews
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10:24:01Tornebut that's fine; that's a patch series.
10:24:29 Quit GodEater_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
10:24:33JdGordonone review for each commit?
10:26:08JdGordonerrr... oh.. kay... wierd.. (but screw it, all better than FS+svn :) )
10:26:15Tornehow is that weird>
10:26:23Torneit's a patch series.
10:26:28JdGordonim more interested in seeing the finished patch against master, not individual steps
10:26:48Torneyes, so you rewrite local history to that form
10:27:19Tornethe point of being able to upload multiple commits in a branch is to create a patch series
10:27:36Tornei.e. set of discrete steps deliberatley created that way
10:27:38kugelIMO we should allow merge commits
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10:28:02kugelthe point of git is easy branching and merging
10:28:28JdGordonI also really dont see the point of requiring linear history
10:29:02Tornekugel: no it isn't :)
10:30:30TorneJdGordon: because if you just push merges then history becomes a stream of nothing but merges and the graph of changes is always really wide
10:30:30kugelwhy don't allow them?
10:30:53kugelwho cares how wide the graph of changes is?
10:31:24Tornepeople who have to bisect to find bugs. people who have to work out what users' build versions are.
10:31:33kugelrebasing can be a a real PITA while merging just works
10:31:37Torneer, what?
10:31:46Tornethat's nonsense :)
10:32:00kugelit's not
10:33:19Tornefor most things there is no difference
10:33:34kugelexcept if there are conflicts
10:33:47TorneNo, for most things the conflict set will be the same either way
10:34:37*Torne will be back in a bit.
10:35:54kugelTorne: how do merge commits make bisecting harder or determining a version number?
10:38:14ukleinekTorne: merging works in the kernel to, and git-bisect can handle it just fine
10:38:40ukleinekand rebasing might make your code actually untested
10:40:08kugelit's just inconvinient too
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10:44:28*ukleinek reads the backlog about your git discusstion
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10:45:57*JdGordon doesnt believe that was really Linus
10:46:09JdGordonnot enough belittliing :)
10:47:08ukleinekJdGordon: I guess airlied behaves good in general, so he didn
10:47:15ukleinek't decend far
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10:48:13B4gderI think Linus just had gotten an exceptionally nice lunch just before he sent that
10:49:39*ukleinek doesn't know gerrit, but the projects I know work with plain git good enough
10:50:18B4gderwell, we agreed to give it a try
10:50:33ukleinekB4gder: it=gerrit or git?
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10:50:48B4gderthere needs to be some defined work flow, and gerrit provides one way
10:50:58GodEater__ukleinek: for the purposes of this discussion, gerrit/git is not relevant
10:50:59JdGordonhas Torne enabled email notifications on it?
10:51:07GodEater__JdGordon: yes he has
10:51:15B4gderukleinek: we are switching to git, that's decided
10:51:26GodEater__gerrit provides one implementation of hosted git is all
10:51:36GodEater__if we hate it, we might use gitosis or something else
10:52:27ukleinekwe use gitolite in my company, works pretty well, though I don't have anything to do with it's administration.
10:52:53ukleinekour admin told that gitosis was ugly, gitolite strait forward.
10:53:16GodEater__the admin side of gitosis is a bit of a pain
10:53:33GodEater__gerrit's is much nicer, plus you get this nice code review feature too
10:57:31*kugel can second this
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11:14:16JdGordongerrit is code only right? flyspray is staying for old patches and bugs?
11:14:22JdGordonassuming of course we go gerrit
11:15:10JdGordonI thought someone said gerrit lets you upload a plain diff?
11:15:45GodEater__no - we're binning patches on flyspray
11:16:00JdGordonand bugs?
11:16:05GodEater__it'll be mailling list or gerrit only for patches in future.
11:16:12GodEater__bugs will stay in flyspray
11:17:07kugelif we decide for gerrit :)
11:17:14GodEater__well, true ;)
11:17:27GodEater__this is the initial plan, subject to change ;)
11:18:34n1swill old fs patches just be dropped?
11:21:03GodEater__I think that's the plan - especially for very old ones that no-one works on any more.
11:21:13GodEater__I suspect we'll archive them off somewhere so we don't lose them forever
11:21:18GodEater__but just remove public access to them
11:22:16JdGordondoes anyone know of a better bug tracker? FS isnt really great
11:22:43GodEater__there's bugzilla, but that's horrific ;)
11:22:50GodEater__or JIRA
11:22:55GodEater__which we use at work
11:23:02GodEater__I *think* JIRA is free for OSS projects.
11:23:22GodEater__(as in beer, not as in libre)
11:24:24JdGordonwe use JIRA at work also, i dont tihnk its any better
11:24:34B4gderbugzilla is great for really large groups and amounts of bugs imho
11:24:59B4gderI also suspect it is a bit of a pain to setup nicely
11:25:22n1sthe newish bugzilla look at least makes it bearable to look at
11:25:48n1sFS is pretty much dead, isn't it?
11:26:46B4gderI think trac is decent, but I haven't used it in a project with massive amount of bugs
11:27:56GodEater__JdGordon: can you articulate what you think is wrong with FS? And what features bug tracking software 'Z' must implement to be better?
11:28:40JdGordon(not being difficult) No, not really.... just umm
11:29:05n1si'd like if it could just present patches as text instead of binary
11:29:22n1sthe mime thingy i suppose
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11:30:02GodEater__n1s: I think ignore FS's patch features, since the idea is not to use it for them anymore anyhow.
11:30:46n1smight still post a patch for testing in a bug report, no?
11:30:57GodEater__ideally no
11:31:17GodEater__post a patch to gerrit (or whatever we go to), and a FS# with it.
11:32:26n1swhat if the patch isn't for inclusion but just a quick hack to confirm a suspicion, will it still go into gerrit?
11:33:02GodEater__yes, because it's still a much better place to work with patches
11:33:31B4gderright, but if the patch isn't meant to be committed, I think gerrit feels like the wrong destination
11:34:29B4gderlike if you provide a patch that is a recipe to repeat a bug
11:35:11GodEater__mailling list then
11:36:17*B4gder is a mail person so everything that suggests mail is a good suggestion =)
11:36:18kugelor pastebin :)
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11:56:26TorneI think ukleinek's link there to linus's mail makes my point, not yours :)
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11:57:04Tornethere's no value, generally, in merging whatever random local changes you have made, rather than you rebasing them to be a neat single patch that you would happily email
11:57:29Tornewhen people collaborate on actual feature branches which get merged from master repeatedly, that is the time you want to be merging
11:58:24Tornefor the vast majority of changes, pushing a merge just makes history more complicated for literally zero benefit to anyone
11:58:49Torneso yeah. gerrit does a lot of the work for you there.
11:59:07TorneIf you upload a patch for review and then submit it, it will cherrypick it for you. you get it applied as if it had been rebased but you don't have to do anything
11:59:42Tornethe point of disallowing pushing merge commits by default is to encourage people to use that workflow unless they have a really good reason
12:00:21TorneI think there is a lot of value in the process linus describes there, where once you are done with a thing you go back and look at how to present it
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12:00:37Tornegit handles this pretty well in general, interactive rebase is super awesome.
12:01:07TorneAs the demo page says none of this is final
12:01:23Tornegerrit doesn't require you do it this way; I have just configured it this way for now to see what people think
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12:03:36Torne discusses some of this
12:03:43Tornepossibly interesting.
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12:11:16kugelTorne: I'm not meaning to encourage merge commits, but they some times make more sense especially if you push changes that are not your work (i.e. what linus describes)
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12:15:59kugeland generally rebasing/rewriting history is bad once you published anything
12:16:39kugelso having branches in our git repo, but not allowing to merge them back into master without rebase is kinda wrong
12:17:55Torneof course you don't rebase branches that have been published
12:19:23Tornenot allowing merges by default is to stop people doing it by accident
12:21:33Tornewe aren't going to have the workflow linux has where people aggregate loads of other people's patches
12:21:54Tornealmost all commits to our tree will be single things people have written in one locla commit
12:22:04Tornethose things gain nothing by being merged instead of rebased/cherrypicked.
12:22:32Torneand when you have a locla branch often you do want to flatten that before submit anyway because your intermediate state was not actually interesting to anyone else.
12:22:49TorneSo, yeah. When someone actually uses a shared feature branch for some time and the history of that is considered important, then you merge it.
12:23:05Tornethis is the process i prefer to keep a moderate level of history cleanliness.
12:23:22TorneDo you agree with that in principle? Or do you prefer something else?
12:23:32JdGordonI think Torne gets to control it if he's driving the change over anyway :)
12:23:37TorneJdGordon: not at all
12:23:40kugelyes, in principle
12:23:54kugelbut currently there's no way of merging is there?
12:23:56*JdGordon wants someone to push the button already
12:24:04TorneJdGordon: we're not doing it until after release
12:24:13Tornekugel: right. so to that end, i've configured gerrit to cherrypick when applying patches, and i've disallowed all uploading of merges.
12:24:20Tornebut that's not a global option or anything :)
12:24:29Tornei can give people permission to merge
12:24:46Tornei just don't think it should be the default for everyone
12:24:58Tornebecause the workflow that most git tutorials push you towards cause *lots* of merges
12:25:48Tornealso it can be different on different branches/refs
12:26:17Torneso if we host feature branches on our gerrit, we can allow merging into those by whoever so that people can easily keep up to date from master
12:26:37*bertrik will probably accidentally screw things up if given the opportunity
12:26:56Tornekugel: it's just a sanity thing
12:27:07Tornekugel: similarly I wasn't intending to give everyone the ability to push tags by default
12:27:20Tornebecause tagging stuff is Significant and we don't want it done by accident
12:27:41Tornebut that doesn't mean we can't tag anything; you just give whoever's looking after the release permission to do it
12:28:03Tornedoes that make more sense?
12:28:10kugelnot sure
12:28:12TorneI was going to explain some of this on the demo guide page but I ran out of time
12:28:19kugelis tagging easy to do by accident?
12:28:32kugelwith svn everyone can tag and we haven't had problems with this
12:28:51Tornetagging stuff locally is quick and easy and sometimes useful to keep track of stuff when you rare doing complicated things
12:29:03Tornepushing doesn't push tags by default, though
12:29:16*kugel never used tags locally
12:29:26JdGordonyou're hardly the only person to use git though
12:29:52Tornewell, it's still not trivial to push a tag by accident.
12:30:06TorneThe difference with svn here is that git tags are part of history
12:30:21Torneso if you *do* tag the wrong thing then you are not able to undo that without revising history and breaking people's repos
12:30:32Torneif you tag the wrong thing as 3.9 then, yeha. time to release 3.9.1
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12:31:14kugelI don't see accidental tagging as a probable problem
12:31:25Torneprobably not
12:31:34Tornebut deliberate tagging is very infrequent
12:31:52bertrikDo we have someone who knows how to fix things if something goes wrong anyway?
12:31:59Tornebertrik: You generally *can't*
12:32:05Tornerevising history once it's been public is bad
12:32:17Tornefor tags, if you tag 3.9 and someone clnes the repo, they get that tag
12:32:28Torneif you later revise what that tag points to, those people who cloned the bad one *will not see it change*
12:32:39Torneunless they explicitly discard and refetch the tag in their clone
12:32:56Torneso you end up with more than one different thing which identifies itself as the same version :)
12:33:31kugelgit tag −−help says there's two ways: 1) a new tag with different name, 2) make a big announcement for breaking all clones :)
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12:33:41Torneyes, exactly
12:33:47Torneyou don't actually do 2) ;)
12:33:57Torneand 1) is not really a fix ;)
12:34:24bertrikIn that case, I'm very much in favour of having just a few people (e.g. release manager) having the ability to tag
12:35:05Torneaanyway, my point was that the same knda thing applies to merges.
12:35:17Torneif everyone can merge then lots of people will merge; this is much easier to do by "accident"
12:35:35Torneand the result is a complicated history that includes uninteresting intermediate states of development
12:35:50*Torne idles.
12:38:21kugelTorne: so I need to ask you for permissions the first time I want to merge?
12:38:32kugelor can I give it myself?
12:39:34bertrikI think maybe we should have voted for (git+workflow) instead of just saying "let's go git"
12:40:18kugelwe're working out the workflow currently :)
12:40:44kugelso, you should take the chance and have a play with the gerrit demo
12:43:15bertrikI would have very much preferred the situation where the git proponents proposed a reasonable work flow beforehand
12:45:00GodEater__bertrik: well technically we're still in "beforehand"
12:45:19GodEater__if we can't agree on a workflow, the decision to go to git can still be reversed.
12:45:24kugelbertrik: if you havent used git you propbably don't understand the proposed workflow anyway
12:45:56bertrikkugel, if I don't understand it, then it's probably too complicated anyway :)
12:46:23GodEater__it's not complicated, it's just quite different
12:46:37GodEater__too many folks coming from svn assume it works exactly the same
12:46:42GodEater__which is the stumbling block
12:47:02ZagorI for one welcome this examination and exploration of alternative workflows. it's not like we did things the perfect way before.
12:47:39n1sand complicated
12:48:09n1shmm, wasn't scrolled down fully there
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12:49:07n1syeah, investigating the workflow is good
12:56:50JdGordonhave we frozen yet?
13:03:42kugelwhere put I voice files into? .rockbox/langs/?
13:04:00pamaurywhere can we see the gerrit demo ?
13:04:21kugelsee GerritDemoGuide
13:04:23bertrikpamaury, see the GerritDemoGuide wiki page
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13:10:39AlexPJdGordon: not yet
13:10:49AlexPYou'll get an email and the topic will change etc.
13:11:01AlexPBasically I'll announce it :)
13:11:37TorneZagor: that was the plan, yes
13:11:47TorneZagor: letting people actually try things out and learn
13:11:54n1skugel: yes
13:12:01Torneinstead of asking people with minimal/no git experience to decide what the workflow should be
13:12:05JdGordonAlexP: yeah, I wasnt sure if I'd missed it yet :) I wont commit the patch anyway so no big deal
13:12:22Tornekugel: i can make it so you can give yourself permission. i don't know if we want to do that
13:12:36AlexPI'll just do what I'm told
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13:13:00kugelTorne: why not? it's not like we're going to abuse the system
13:15:06GodEater__no. of course not. We don't know ANY committers like that.
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13:22:46Tornekugel: The thing there is that people will ;)
13:23:11Torneif we want to encourage a given workflow then having one easy step to opt yourself out of *any* enforcement of that workflow is not super ideal
13:23:17kugelwe don't trust committers to do the right thing anymore?
13:23:50TorneI don't trust a bunch of people who are new to a given tool and workflow to just do the right thing without any help, no
13:23:51JdGordonwe never did
13:24:20Tornei'm not assuming malice here :)
13:24:48kugelTorne: I trust that bunch of people do not change the default until they're confortable with the tool and understand what the default does
13:25:05kugelJdGordon: pretty sure we did
13:25:07Tornekugel: Right. That might be reasonable
13:25:18Tornei'm just not sure if it's ideal
13:25:19*Torne shrugs
13:26:01Tornebefore we get into a great amount of detail about how to enforce/encourage workflow we should proabbly settle on what we want it to be :)
13:26:50Tornein terms of the capabilities of gerrit: it can allow/disallow merges based on what project and branch and user is trying to do it
13:27:07Torneit can have groups where you can add yourself (by having another group you are already in as the owner of the new group)
13:27:21Torneit can submit gerrit-owned changes by merge or fastforward or cherrypick
13:27:42Tornethis is all up to us, and I'm not at all certain that the current config is even remotely like what we will want
13:27:48Torneit's just my first thought :)
13:28:26kugelis it possible to have multiple commits in one review?
13:28:33Torneit's a patch review system
13:28:38Torneit reviews individual patches
13:28:54Torneflatten your history if you want to upload it as one patch
13:29:12TorneHm, actualyl
13:29:24TorneI'm not sure what it actually does if you upload a branch that ends in a merge commit for review.
13:29:58TorneI suspect it will upload it as N+1 patches, for the N changes on the branch and then for the actual merge commit (which will have an empty diff if there are no conflicts)
13:30:45Tornehow about this: i'll clone the sandbox repository and create a second one that submits by merging and allows merges to be uploaded.
13:30:56Tornethen if you want to experiment with how that works you can
13:31:05kugelI think merging by cherry-pick is great
13:31:18kugelunless it can merge a series of patches at once?
13:31:24Torneit can, yes
13:31:36Torneif you set the submit method to merge, it will merge all dependent patches together
13:31:48Tornerequiring that they *all* are reviewed +2 and so on
13:31:58Tornethis doesn't work when submit is done by cherrypick.
13:32:02Tornedependencies are ignored
13:32:35kugeldoes that mean accidentally submitting in the wrong order or forgetting a dependancy breaks things?
13:32:52Torneit means it will submit exactly the patch you tell it to submit, and no others
13:33:15Tornethe cherrypick may fail because of an earlier patch in the series being missing, or it may not
13:33:18Tornedepends what the actual changes are.
13:34:17Torneso when you are submitting by cherrypick the dependencies are for human-reading only
13:34:17kugelnot nice
13:34:17TorneBut it's kinda unavoidable
13:34:17DBUGEnqueued KICK Torne
13:34:17TorneThe whole point of cherrypicking is the target branch doesn't have to be at the same point as the thing the change is based on
13:34:33CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13:34:33*Torne goes to get some lunch, brb
13:34:55*GodEater__ expects Torne to be back in about 1 minute, given the proximity of the google restaurant.
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13:59:34TorneGodEater: you are foolishly assuming that i'm going to come right back to my desk ;)
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14:00:20GodEaterTorne: ;)
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14:04:06Tornesomeone has managed to resort the committer list by name instead of username
14:05:00GodEateron the spreadsheet you mean?
14:05:08Torneyedah :0
14:05:16TorneOh, wait
14:05:24Tornerasher probably did it while he was generating the email list for me
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14:21:17*Buschel is surprised by the compile speed of Ubuntu under VMWare vs. cygwin
14:21:42Buschel7:45m -> 1:50m for a clean build
14:21:54Buschelbut the CPU's are only used 50% :/
14:22:02Torneis vmware being multicore?
14:22:18Tornealso that really shouldn't surprise you
14:22:25B4gdercygwin is for the ones with patience, not for the ones in a hurry =)
14:22:29Tornethe gcc driver forks a lot.
14:22:33Tornecygwin forking is agonisingly slow
14:25:43BuschelTorne: it uses 4 CPU's but multithreading does not seem to work
14:25:43Tornei mean is the VM actually emulating a machine with 4 cores
14:25:43BuschelTorne: yes, Ubuntu sees 4 PCU's
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14:45:26Tornedoes anyone have interesting photos from devcon? please email link to so i can steal some for blog post about it
14:55:50GodEaterTorne: did you have to do much butchery to the text?
14:55:57Tornei've not touched the text yet :0
14:56:03Tornei've been doing, yaknow, actual work
14:56:10Tornei'll do it later this week
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16:00:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:39:55EspreonUh, yeah... I made an American English translation file, and I was wondering whom I should send it to.
16:40:38GodEaterrockbox-dev mailling list probably
16:41:51EspreonOK, I guess I'll do that.
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16:54:07AlexPEspreon: I hope it doesn't feature any trailing prepositions :)
16:54:17 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]
16:54:35AlexPRight, any last minute things before we freeze?
16:59:29GodEaterhas JdGordon finished all the tasks we set him at DevCon yet?
17:00:00AlexPEspreon: to whom I should send it :)
17:00:57GodEaterthanks grammar nazi!
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17:01:18AlexPYou are welcome :)
17:01:19EspreonFrom what I've read, the whole "trailing prepositions are pure evil" thing is just a result from Latin fetishism.
17:01:33EspreonSo, yeah...
17:01:42AlexPBefore this goes further, #rockbox-community
17:02:23 Part Zagor
17:02:25EspreonOh, all right.
17:03:11 Quit Judas_PhD (Client Quit)
17:05:44Topic"Now in feature freeze for 3.9 | Rockbox accepted for GSoC 2011 | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at | An upgrade caused issues with the wiki. We are on the case" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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17:08:20EspreonAlexP: Should I just assume that passing through genlang means that the translation file's fine? I can't really test, for my iPod is missing.
17:08:33AlexPEspreon: Whoever commits it will check
17:08:39AlexPIt isn't a tough one anyway
17:08:45AlexPJust change some spelling
17:11:15AlexPBy that I mean that pretty much anyone can check it
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17:14:05AlexPIncidentally, we've been on the case with the wiki for ages now - it seems a bit superfluous in the topic. Are we still on the case of it thinking eery change is suspicious, or should that just be deleted?
17:15:09EspreonOK, sent. If it gets in, I won't have to put up with Frenchie spellings anymore. ;)
17:15:53AlexPheh :)
17:16:42 Quit TheLemonMan (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
17:19:28EspreonAlexP: Was I too late for 3.9?
17:19:46AlexPEspreon: No, translations can still go in
17:19:50 Quit T44 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:20:03EspreonOK, cool.
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17:35:42saratogarunning a battery bench on my variant 0 clip+ with and without sd card inserted (but nothing on it) decreases battery life by 15 minutes
17:35:54saratogaresults may be different on variant 1 devices though
17:38:03bertriksaratoga, nice to know
17:38:20saratogaa couple months ago someone reported a huge difference, probably with a variant 1 device
17:38:27saratogaalthough maybe thats now fixed given all the changes
17:38:29bertrikI think sandisk mentions somewhere that their cards go into some kind of low power mode when the clock is stopped
17:38:32gevaertssaratoga: what's the total time?
17:38:40saratoga16:30 without sd
17:38:44bertrikso I think it can depend hugely on the exact type of card
17:38:46saratogaplaying lame v2 mp3s
17:38:58saratogaI used an 8GB kingston card
17:39:24saratogadon't we cut power to the card entirely when its not used?
17:40:21bertrikWe stop the clock to the sd controller in sd_enable() when there is no access going on. I think we don't cut power to the card.
17:43:35saratogaif the cards unclocked it shouldn't be using power
17:46:20bertrikwe're not doing so bad anyway on the clip+ :)
17:46:41bertrikabout 18 mA
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18:00:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:16:42CIA-58New commit by bertrik (r29998): FS #12155 - Update espanol.lang Spanish translation
18:19:50CIA-58r29998 build result: All green
18:34:00CIA-58New commit by bluebrother (r29999): Manual: update copyright year. We are still working on this.
18:35:52EspreonHmmm, my message hasn't showed up in the archive.
18:36:50AlexPDid you subscribe before sending?
18:37:02CIA-58r29999 build result: All green
18:37:03EspreonOh, no.
18:37:11AlexPRight, you need to be :)
18:37:38 Quit evilnick_B (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
18:40:07EspreonOK, I subscribed and resent it.
18:40:20AlexPyeah, it has turned up
18:45:04bluebrotherEspreon: you could try the translation in the simulator.
18:45:22Espreonbluebrother: How do I compile the simulator?
18:46:11bluebrotherEspreon: pretty similar than the normal build, just choose (S)imulator when running configure
18:46:43EspreonAh, yes.
18:47:21bluebrotherEspreon: see (not sure if that page is up to date but it doesn't seem to be terribly outdated on a quick look)
18:47:33EspreonOK. Thanks.
18:47:44bluebrotheryou're welcome :)
18:50:12CIA-58New commit by kugel (r30000): Fix FS #11387 - PictureFlow runs jerkily while playing music on Nano2G after the recent feature addition ...
18:50:40kugeloh, r30k. nice :)
18:53:06CIA-58r30000 build result: All green
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18:56:25funmanr29221 broke gcc 4.6.0, gcc can't ensure that the shift argument is within 0-32 (although it is always in this range)
18:56:42funman("M" constraint in asm)
18:56:47*Bagder does the r30000 dance
18:58:18AlexPkugel has been holding that commit back for ages :)
18:58:21kugelfunman: are you sure you linked the right revision? I see no M constraint
18:58:21*gevaerts congratulates kugel on managing to get a *green* r30000 :)
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18:59:02chkktriAND WE HAVE A WINNER
18:59:23funmankugel: in FRACMUL_SHL
18:59:56kugelfunman: that commit is about bit functions
19:00:32funmanah that's 29921 sorry
19:00:48kugelalso, gcc doesn't need to ensure shift arguments to be between 0 and 31. it can assume that, everything else is undefined
19:01:17funmanit says something along the lines of "operand 4 probably doesn't match 'M' constraint"
19:05:34EspreonAnd it works.
19:05:41funmanwith older gcc i already see these diagnostics with "I" constraint (>= 0 && <= 255) but only at -O0
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19:18:35*GodEater wonders if bertrik will be making a habit of pushing text files with execute bits set on them
19:18:55TorneGodEater: heh
19:19:05TorneGodEater: i haven't done anything about line endings yet but I will sort that in the real repo
19:19:14TorneI will be forcing LF in all text file types
19:19:27Tornenot sure about the execute bit
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19:20:24Tornegit is supposed to detect if your repo is on a broken filesystem that doesn't handle execute bit right, and ignore it
19:23:37GodEaterI don't mind having it set on stuff that is supposed to be executed, but text files just annoy me!
19:25:19Tornei removed the superfluous ones from svn the other day
19:25:24GodEaterI saw
19:25:31Tornethere were a lot. :)
19:25:45Tornepeople's success rates with setting svn properties for keywords and eol-style appears to be pretty low also
19:25:48GodEaterwe ought to make people who commit them pay a forfeit
19:25:58Tornegit handles EOLs more sensibly
19:26:21Torne(and we're killing keywords, yay)
19:28:02*Torne suspects the right strategy for EOL is to force LF in all text files not just on checkin but on checkout also
19:28:11Tornei.e. ignore platform EOLs entirely
19:28:16Tornesuch that you get linefeeds even on windows
19:28:21Torneand if your editor is too thick to handle that then tough
19:28:27Torneat least the *build tools* will sodding work
19:29:22Tornewe alrady have, er, 42 files that behave that way in svn because someone set eol-style to LF by accident. amusingly
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19:37:36CIA-58New commit by learman (r30001): Update Swedish translation.
19:40:46CIA-58r30001 build result: All green
19:43:35GodEaterTorne: I couldn't agree more with that strategy
19:44:25Torneunless there's any windows-specific util/tools files we ahve that need to have CRLFs to work
19:44:43Torne(but we can always mark those as, again, always having CRLF)
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20:22:40chkktrise FLAC fils are unplayable
20:22:47chkktriis that know issue?
20:24:29kisakn what?
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20:28:14chkktrii wonder how many typos i can make at once >_>
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20:38:19linuxstbchkktri: What device are you running Rockbox on? What happens when you try to play them? Do other formats work OK?
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21:07:41SzeraaxHi! So I am compiling source, but while running for the cross compilers, I had to cancel the script with ^c. What can I do to resume the script correctly?
21:08:36SzeraaxHi! So I am compiling source, but while running for the cross compilers, I had to cancel the script with ^c. What can I do to resume the script correctly?
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21:23:08saratogaSzeraax: probably just rerun it
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21:27:02chkktrilinuxstb, Cowon D2+, skips to next file, other formats fors fine
21:27:12chkktrisorry for delay v_v
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22:11:42*[Saint] congratulates the team on r30000
22:12:49[Saint]30000 commits, ~6000 committers...that's really something.
22:14:03Bagder600 contributors, "only" 126 ever committed anything =)
22:15:09*[Saint] cleaims that that's what he meant ;)
22:15:28[Saint]I just woke up, happened to see the 30K and thought "\o/"
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22:21:09*jhMikeS does the beef jerkily 30k dance
22:22:35BagderSzer: please stop that
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22:25:01SzerYay!, ok, so
22:25:10SzerSorry, I have been having connection issues
22:25:21AlexP30,000 commits and it still sounds like a bag of shit :)
22:25:25SzerHi! So I am compiling source, but while running for the cross compilers, I had to cancel the script with ^c. What can I do to resume the script correctly?
22:25:29Tornejust run it again
22:25:42Torneit doesn't really resume
22:25:47Tornebut it will reuse the downloaded files
22:25:48AlexPdelete the /tmp/rbdev-build directory if it complains
22:26:10saratogaSzer: i answered you above, check the logs
22:28:26SzerI get"mkdir ... " Error: cannot create directory, directory exists
22:28:37AlexPSee what I said
22:28:38Szerdo I need to put some sort of −−force?
22:29:04AlexPJust delete the /tmp/rbdev-build directory like I said
22:29:16AlexPI think that is what it is called
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22:39:25pamauryShouldn't some values in target/arm/s5l8702/ipod6g/mmcdefs-target.h be in target/export/mmc.h ?
22:39:33pamaurylike the commands and arguments ?
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22:41:20SzerAwesome, thanks AlexP and others for your help. Sorry for the frustrations from my connection...
22:41:32AlexPyou're welcome
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23:08:59bertrikwow, so we have 238 commits on average per committer
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23:39:09CIA-58New commit by bertrik (r30002): FS #12156 - Update Galician translation by Ismael Castiñeira Álvarez
23:42:20CIA-58r30002 build result: All green
23:46:30CIA-58New commit by pamaury (r30003): sbtools: add support for the mode command (rarely used) and explicit env variable to skip version check
23:48:33 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
23:49:27CIA-58r30003 build result: All green
23:51:26 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: Ex-Chat)

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